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thunderkyss
10-19-2010, 09:12 PM
This is just my opinion. But if I were Kubiak, the thing I would do to fix this thing, would be to fix the offense.

Kubiak is an offensive genius, we've got talent all over the offense: Slaton, Ward, Dressen, JJ, Walter, Owen, Andre & Vontae (that's a football playa right there!), let's keep our defense off the field.

If it works against the Colts, why won't it work against the other 9 teams on our schedule?

I doubt we had as many 3 & outs (on offense) all of last year, as we've already seen this year.

TheRealJoker
10-19-2010, 09:14 PM
This is just my opinion. But if I were Kubiak, the thing I would do to fix this thing, would be to fix the offense.

Kubiak is an offensive genius, we've got talent all over the offense: Slaton, Ward, Dressen, JJ, Walter, Owen, Andre & Vontae (that's a football playa right there!), let's keep our defense off the field.

If it works against the Colts, why won't it work against the other 9 teams on our schedule?

I doubt we had as many 3 & outs (on offense) all of last year, as we've already seen this year.

Why do you think this is happening? We finally have a running game yet we go 3 and out quite a bit. Especially early in games.

HJam72
10-19-2010, 09:17 PM
Why do you think this is happening? We finally have a running game yet we go 3 and out quite a bit. Especially early in games.

Because we don't pass the ball all 3 times, duh. :)

gtexan02
10-19-2010, 09:18 PM
This is just my opinion. But if I were Kubiak, the thing I would do to fix this thing, would be to fix the offense.

Kubiak is an offensive genius, we've got talent all over the offense: Slaton, Ward, Dressen, JJ, Walter, Owen, Andre & Vontae (that's a football playa right there!), let's keep our defense off the field.

If it works against the Colts, why won't it work against the other 9 teams on our schedule?

I doubt we had as many 3 & outs (on offense) all of last year, as we've already seen this year.

So far this year weve converted 29 of 68 3rd down conversions for a 42.6% rate. This is good for 8th in the NFL

We've converted 3 of 5 4th downs for a 60% rate. This is good for 8th in the NFL.

We have 131 first downs, good for 4th in the NFL



Last year we converted 82 of 204 3rd down conversions, for a rate of 40.2%. Good for 15th in the NFL.

Last year we converted 8 of 12 4th down conversions, good for 66% and 5th in the NFL.

We had 340 total first downs. Good for 4th in the NFL.




This "downfall" of our offense is greatly exaggerated. We are almost exactly the same statistically as we were last year. Our 3rd down conversion percentage is actually slightly higher

Ryan
10-19-2010, 09:24 PM
Because Schaub is a rhythm quarterback and finally with the emergence of a solid running attack in addition, the one throw he might have to make if they are running the ball might be out of sync. When Schaub gets hot, he is one of the toughest to stop, but he can sure be ice cold at times.

HJam was right, if Schaub threw the ball all 3 times, the likelihood of a 3 and out is probably much slimmer, but the turnover ratio climbs up a bit, and you might not kill any time off the clock in the process. Sort of a double edge sword.

thunderkyss
10-19-2010, 09:43 PM
This "downfall" of our offense is greatly exaggerated. We are almost exactly the same statistically as we were last year. Our 3rd down conversion percentage is actually slightly higher

I love stats, but they don't tell the whole story, like the real joker said, we don't convert in the first half, and we convert a lot in the second. If you were to track the defenses three & outs, I bet they would align perfectly to when the offense is converting them.

Our problem is that we aren't converting in the first half, our defense is staying on the field & giving up big points. We shut the Redskins down in the second half, slowed the Giants down in the second half, and got two big stops against the Chiefs late in the 4th Qtr. Had it not been for the injury to Demeco, I'm sure we would have stopped the bleeding earlier.


The only game the second half got worse than the first, was when the offense never got started in Dallas.

JB
10-19-2010, 09:46 PM
TK, this is where I have to disagree with you. Our offense is pretty close to where it was last year, but it seems to work harder to get there.

Our defense has been just horrible on 3rd downs, especially early. Now maybe if the offense did better early, it would help the defense. But the defense put the offense in a hole early last Sunday, and that has to put the pressure on, don't ya think?

thunderkyss
10-19-2010, 09:51 PM
TK, this is where I have to disagree with you. Our offense is pretty close to where it was last year, but it seems to work harder to get there.

Our defense has been just horrible on 3rd downs, especially early. Now maybe if the offense did better early, it would help the defense. But the defense put the offense in a hole early last Sunday, and that has to put the pressure on, don't ya think?
We held the Cowboys to 10 points in the first half. Their first series against us was a turnover on downs, their second a 3 & out.

The first series against the Giants was a three & out. We allowed 0 points to the Giants when our offense held the ball longer than 3:00.

We forced three punts (two three & outs) against the Chiefs in the first half.

Dutchrudder
10-19-2010, 09:52 PM
LOUD NOISES!!!


lol

thunderkyss
10-19-2010, 09:54 PM
We went into halftime down by seven, getting the ball back to start the third Qtr. We went 3 & out.

I don't think we ever trailed by more than 10 in that game really, that's not big hole.

gtexan02
10-19-2010, 09:57 PM
We went into halftime down by seven, getting the ball back to start the third Qtr. We went 3 & out.

I don't think we ever trailed by more than 10 in that game really, that's not big hole.

I think we were down 14 after the chiefs scored in the 3rd

thunderkyss
10-19-2010, 09:59 PM
I think we were down 14 after the chiefs scored in the 3rd

You're right, I just checked.

BigBull17
10-20-2010, 09:17 AM
So far this year weve converted 29 of 68 3rd down conversions for a 42.6% rate. This is good for 8th in the NFL

We've converted 3 of 5 4th downs for a 60% rate. This is good for 8th in the NFL.

We have 131 first downs, good for 4th in the NFL



Last year we converted 82 of 204 3rd down conversions, for a rate of 40.2%. Good for 15th in the NFL.

Last year we converted 8 of 12 4th down conversions, good for 66% and 5th in the NFL.

We had 340 total first downs. Good for 4th in the NFL.




This "downfall" of our offense is greatly exaggerated. We are almost exactly the same statistically as we were last year. Our 3rd down conversion percentage is actually slightly higher

I really like our increased red zone efficiency. We are like eighth in the NFl as of Sunday, but 4-4 should have brought us up.

NitroGSXR
10-20-2010, 09:26 AM
When teams are constantly smacking us in the mouth by attempting 4th down plays mid-quarter. Midfield even... says a lot.

BigBull17
10-20-2010, 09:31 AM
When teams are constantly smacking us in the mouth by attempting 4th down plays mid-quarter. Midfield even... says a lot.

I honestly don't know why you would punt against us. Every third and long would be a play to get it closer and 4th I would go for it. Our D can't stop a wounded house cat anyway.

Rey
10-20-2010, 09:18 PM
If I'm Kubiak I think I would throw first and run second against certain teams.

I understand having an identity, but this offense can move the ball through the air, especially when they get in a rythm...

I wouldn't go into any specific game trying to establish anything...I would try to see what a defense was weakest at and exploit it...We have the weapons at every position to do so.

Against the Colts...run it down their throats...

Against the Jags, pass it until they get tired of seeing the ball in the air...

Use your TE's and get mismatches on LB's...Just be more aggressive with the offensive play calling and don't wait until the game starts getting out of hand...

Mix in some hurry up early in the game...catch the defense off guard sometimes...just do some different things...

DexmanC
10-20-2010, 10:02 PM
If I'm Kubiak I think I would throw first and run second against certain teams.

I understand having an identity, but this offense can move the ball through the air, especially when they get in a rythm...

I wouldn't go into any specific game trying to establish anything...I would try to see what a defense was weakest at and exploit it...We have the weapons at every position to do so.

Against the Colts...run it down their throats...

Against the Jags, pass it until they get tired of seeing the ball in the air...

Use your TE's and get mismatches on LB's...Just be more aggressive with the offensive play calling and don't wait until the game starts getting out of hand...

Mix in some hurry up early in the game...catch the defense off guard sometimes...just do some different things...


I feel this. When they start the game in "script mode," they've rarely
scored on it due to the lethargy. The Texans offense has almost
no energy in the first quarter. We need that urgency on the very
first drive.

Rey
10-20-2010, 10:08 PM
I feel this. When they start the game in "script mode," they've rarely
scored on it due to the lethargy. The Texans offense has almost
no energy in the first quarter. We need that urgency on the very
first drive.

I'm cool with the script...I've been on a two high school and 1 college team where we used a scripts...

It never hampered our offense...

But that doesn't mean they can't go hurry up with it, or go script some hurry up in...

thunderkyss
10-20-2010, 10:26 PM
I feel this. When they start the game in "script mode," they've rarely
scored on it due to the lethargy. The Texans offense has almost
no energy in the first quarter. We need that urgency on the very
first drive.

With OD back.... & if Jacoby keeps working with his hands.. I don't think we'll have to worry about starting slow anymore.


At least I hope they won't.

NitroGSXR
10-20-2010, 10:42 PM
With OD back.... & if Jacoby keeps working with his hands.. I don't think we'll have to worry about starting slow anymore.


At least I hope they won't.

I love me some Owen Daniels but I wouldn't bank on him for too long. 3 ACLs is trying to tell us something... I guess I see it as... anything Owen gives us is just gravy but the Texans gotta remember to keep Dressen warm in the meantime.

Rey
10-20-2010, 10:49 PM
I love me some Owen Daniels but I wouldn't bank on him for too long. 3 ACLs is trying to tell us something... I guess I see it as... anything Owen gives us is just gravy but the Texans gotta remember to keep Dressen warm in the meantime.

Really, this is the way I feel about it...

But hearing Winston talk on the radio about Owen, I could kind of understand why the Texans would try to keep him as their main guy...

thunderkyss
10-20-2010, 10:58 PM
Really, this is the way I feel about it...

But hearing Winston talk on the radio about Owen, I could kind of understand why the Texans would try to keep him as their main guy...

I love me some Owen as well, but with the way Dressen has stepped up, and Casey looking good in limited snaps, why aren't we being more creative with two & three TE sets?

Rey
10-20-2010, 11:03 PM
I love me some Owen as well, but with the way Dressen has stepped up, and Casey looking good in limited snaps, why aren't we being more creative with two & three TE sets?

TK, I've been asking for this for a while...I'm glad we're on the same page with this one...

You could still have Andre on the field, and I think with Casey, Dreesen, Daniels, and Dre as targets you could still pass the ball really effectively as well as run it much more effectively...

You could even split one of the TE's out if you just wanted to get real crazy...

I think that'd be a really good short yardage or goal line set...

NitroGSXR
10-20-2010, 11:05 PM
Really, this is the way I feel about it...

But hearing Winston talk on the radio about Owen, I could kind of understand why the Texans would try to keep him as their main guy...
:(

What did he say? The radio and I don't really mesh too well.

Rey
10-20-2010, 11:14 PM
:(

What did he say? The radio and I don't really mesh too well.

He basically talked about how Owen was so well respected and so well liked in the locker room.

He said that guys get a long, but he said that just about EVERYONE liked Owen...He said that he is a guy that works so hard and just has everyone's respect, so when he got injured it was really devastating to them as a team...

Said he's never seen a guy who people cheered for so much to have a great recovery...

He said after this past weeks game that he had, everyone was hugging him and congratulating him...

Basically, he made it sound like Owen was a big time leader in that locker room...like almost on par with Schaub or Demeco...

That's the impression I got..

wagonhed
10-21-2010, 12:36 AM
This is how I feel about our offense:

We are high powered and noone doubts that. But we don't play like we have a high powered offense except when we are in the hole.

I think the current Texans needs to start playing like the 2007 Patriots and just ruthlessly run up the score at all costs. It seems like Kubiak gameplans to try to keep a modest score and regulate the clock - that is, he isn't aggressive. I don't think we need to play run first, and playing run first decreases the amount of points we can score.

Considering how strong our offense is and how bad our defense is, I think we should go full throttle on offense starting from the beginning of the game.

NitroGSXR
10-21-2010, 12:50 AM
This is how I feel about our offense:

We are high powered and noone doubts that. But we don't play like we have a high powered offense except when we are in the hole.

I think the current Texans needs to start playing like the 2007 Patriots and just ruthlessly run up the score at all costs. It seems like Kubiak gameplans to try to keep a modest score and regulate the clock - that is, he isn't aggressive. I don't think we need to play run first, and playing run first decreases the amount of points we can score.

Considering how strong our offense is and how bad our defense is, I think we should go full throttle on offense starting from the beginning of the game.

Defenses get gassed when offenses go bang bang for extended periods. 35-3 and the Rosencopter incident are examples of that. It's a four quarter game. I have always been of the opinion that the Colts' comebacks are caused by tired defenses. We've done the same with Washington and now KC thus far this season.

thunderkyss
10-21-2010, 06:56 AM
This is how I feel about our offense:

We are high powered and noone doubts that. But we don't play like we have a high powered offense except when we are in the hole.

I think the current Texans needs to ...just ruthlessly run up the score at all costs.

It's easier for the fan to overlook the deficiencies on offense. If they do absolutely nothing in two out of three quarters, but put up 35 points in the other two, all is forgotten.

It's much harder to forgive the defense for a similar performance.



It seems like Kubiak gameplans to try to keep a modest score and regulate the clock - that is, he isn't aggressive. I don't think we need to play run first, and playing run first decreases the amount of points we can score.

I think he's earned this reputation here, because this team has been "accident" prone..... at the most inopportune times. I'm sure that's why we haven't run a true 2 minute offense sense he's been here. Seems like the more we play with a "sense of urgency" the more stupid mistakes we make, fumbling the ball, throwing interceptions, false starts, lack of focus.

Considering how strong our offense is and how bad our defense is, I think we should go full throttle on offense starting from the beginning of the game.

Just like Kubiak had to come to terms with this being a passing team last year, he needs to understand what you so eloquently stated here. Keep the defense off the field.

Then all those problems are fixed. They play very well in short spurts... If we can score on a high percentage of possessions, it would be very difficult to beat us.

BigBull17
10-21-2010, 07:24 AM
I love me some Owen as well, but with the way Dressen has stepped up, and Casey looking good in limited snaps, why aren't we being more creative with two & three TE sets?

It's hard to take some of the other guys off the field. Walter, AJ. Foster, Ward, JJ are all guys who are lights out. With all these talented TE's, DA should NEVER see the field.

thunderkyss
10-21-2010, 07:35 AM
It's hard to take some of the other guys off the field. Walter, AJ. Foster, Ward, JJ are all guys who are lights out. With all these talented TE's, DA should NEVER see the field.

true dat.. true dat...

But we see two tightends all the time.

Double Barrel
10-21-2010, 01:21 PM
Didn't our defense allow an 8+ minute drive capped with a TD to start the game against KC?

Offense has nothing to do with that glaring weakness.

What about takeaways? Where is our defense working overtime to get the ball back to our offense?

I understand your perspective, TK, but you seem to be the only one - from local fans and media to the national talking heads - that seems to believe that our offense is our problem.

Our defense stinks in just about every category they keep. From a lethargic pass rush, inability to force turnovers, to just plain bad secondary, there is very little positives to be taken from our defense from the first six games. About the only positives have been stop stops when we really needed it at the end of games, and that should be applauded. But the rest of the time, they just suck.

texasguy346
10-21-2010, 01:25 PM
Our defense stinks in just about every category they keep. From a lethargic pass rush, inability to force turnovers, to just plain bad secondary, there is very little positives to be taken from our defense from the first six games. About the only positives have been stop stops when we really needed it at the end of games, and that should be applauded. But the rest of the time, they just suck.

I couldn't agree more. In fact when I first saw the title of the thread I thought it was the new nickname for our defense.

badboy
10-21-2010, 01:39 PM
Just my opinion but we need to quit giving the first two quarters to the other team. We are fortunate to still be in some game after starting to play in the 3rd. OD needs to really have a great 10 games to be offered a contract.

drs23
10-21-2010, 01:40 PM
I couldn't agree more. In fact when I first saw the title of the thread I thought it was the new nickname for our defense.

:lol:

thunderkyss
10-21-2010, 02:31 PM
Didn't our defense allow an 8+ minute drive capped with a TD to start the game against KC?

Every now & then, I expect the other team to score. Call it crazy... but even the Ravens & Jets allow teams to score.

That, & I didn't really get to "watch" the game until last night. This game was very different from the other 5 we played this year. I hadn't seen that much bad tackling & players running over each other in my life.


Offense has nothing to do with that glaring weakness.

What about takeaways? Where is our defense working overtime to get the ball back to our offense?

Yeah, I'm not saying we're perfect.... just not as bad as what the stats say.

I understand your perspective, TK, but you seem to be the only one - from local fans and media to the national talking heads - that seems to believe that our offense is our problem.

Personally I get nothing from the media. They're analysis of our team is so shallow..... it's not very satisfying, doesn't really address any of the issues that I see. Like CB is not even the weakest position on our defense.


Does it put pressure on the offense when they're down by 14 points?

Well it isn't easy on the defense either. The offense had 4 possessions in the first half (Not counting the one they took the knee) & scored on 1. That's a 25% success rate.

They came out of half time; went 3 & out.... yes, there is a problem on offense.

I never said it was our biggest problem, just that it would help the defense if they would move the ball & keep the other offense on the bench.

The defense (by comparison) had 5 possessions. Gave up zero points on 3 of them. That's 60% success rate.




.

thunderkyss
10-21-2010, 02:35 PM
Just my opinion but we need to quit giving the first two quarters to the other team. We are fortunate to still be in some game after starting to play in the 3rd. OD needs to really have a great 10 games to be offered a contract.

Check my previous post. The defense was playing in the first half, only allowed the Chiefs to score on 2 of 5 possessions. So the offense had at least 3 possessions to tie the game, & take the lead.

DexmanC
10-21-2010, 02:55 PM
true dat.. true dat...

But we see two tightends all the time.

Jacoby did get some clutch yardage late in the Chiefs game, so
I guess he's doing his best to keep DA on the bench.

gafftop
10-21-2010, 03:11 PM
I feel this. When they start the game in "script mode," they've rarely
scored on it due to the lethargy. The Texans offense has almost
no energy in the first quarter. We need that urgency on the very
first drive.

I agree with the above. I think "script mode" works if you guess correctly on what the other team is going to do. I think you take whatever the defense is giving you, to a degree. I have got to believe Manning does not follow a script. He is able to change the play based on what he sees. Texans may want to shove it down Indy's throat, but if they are playing 8 or 9 in the box try something else. Don't be like Kubiak last year when he kept trying to run at the end of the game. I understand we are much better off in running this year, but you understand what I mean.

I just think the players and coaches for the Texans don't understand the urgency at the beginning of the game. They play not to lose at the beginning of the game and then are forced into playing to win at the end. Why not play to win from the beginning all the way to the end.

I stated this before " getting the team up" is a weakness i think of Kubiak.
I am not sure they have a player that gets the team up. Mario, no, Johnson, no, Ryans, maybe, but REALLY there may be a problem if you have to get a team up to play. i think it starts at the top and goes on down.

Rey
10-21-2010, 03:45 PM
It's hard to take some of the other guys off the field. Walter, AJ. Foster, Ward, JJ are all guys who are lights out. With all these talented TE's, DA should NEVER see the field.

I don't think it's that hard to take Walter off the field...

He'd really be the only one who'd see less plays if we used more 3 TE sets...

You'd still be able to have one WR (AJ) and a RB on the field with 3 TE's.


But I don't think TK and I are saying use it early and often...I think we're just saying that it could be a package that we mix in to give us an advantage in certain situations...

But Yeah, Walter would suffer primarily, but I think Dreesen and Daniels may be more of a receiving threat right now anyways...Adding Casey on the field with them would allow us to probably run the ball more effectively, and I don't really think we'd miss Walter too much in the passing game if we used it occasionally..

Double Barrel
10-21-2010, 03:54 PM
Every now & then, I expect the other team to score. Call it crazy... but even the Ravens & Jets allow teams to score.

That, & I didn't really get to "watch" the game until last night. This game was very different from the other 5 we played this year. I hadn't seen that much bad tackling & players running over each other in my life.


Yeah, I'm not saying we're perfect.... just not as bad as what the stats say.

Personally I get nothing from the media. They're analysis of our team is so shallow..... it's not very satisfying, doesn't really address any of the issues that I see. Like CB is not even the weakest position on our defense.


Does it put pressure on the offense when they're down by 14 points?

Well it isn't easy on the defense either. The offense had 4 possessions in the first half (Not counting the one they took the knee) & scored on 1. That's a 25% success rate.

They came out of half time; went 3 & out.... yes, there is a problem on offense.

I never said it was our biggest problem, just that it would help the defense if they would move the ball & keep the other offense on the bench.

The defense (by comparison) had 5 possessions. Gave up zero points on 3 of them. That's 60% success rate.




.

Answer me this: will our defense help us win any low scoring games this year? If our offense struggles and only puts up 13 points, will we even have a chance to win a game because of our defense?

You seem very selective in your analysis. Our offense is not going to score on every drive. That's beyond realistic expectations. Sometimes, the D is going to have to carry the load, which is indicative of a well-balanced team.

We are not a well-balanced team, and the only way we appear to be able to obtain wins is if our offense just wins a shoot out. That is indicative of a crappy cellar-dwelling defense. Nobody respects them, but our offense has garnered tremendous respect from opposing teams.

Rey
10-21-2010, 04:22 PM
We are not a well-balanced team, and the only way we appear to be able to obtain wins is if our offense just wins a shoot out. That is indicative of a crappy cellar-dwelling defense. Nobody respects them, but our offense has garnered tremendous respect from opposing teams.

For the record, I agree with you on this...But at the same time I see where TK is coming from...

There have been some well balanced teams that have won big, but a lot of teams are usually known for certain aspects...

A lot of teams are great on one side of the ball and just ok on the other side...Some teams, like Indy last year, are great passing but can't run for squat but they still win...

I think TK (I could be completely wrong) is saying that our ticket is our offense so he'd rather talk about the problems there and how to get some issues over there fixed. Sure our defense is absolutely terrible, but our offense is supposed to be great so they need to actually be that. If our defense even starts playing on the decent side of things, we'll still need our offense to be the dominant force for us to win and go deep a possible play-off stretch.

Very rare for a team to have an offense that can score 28+ on a consistent basis AND a defense that holds opponents to under 10.

Goldensilence
10-21-2010, 04:39 PM
Jacoby did get some clutch yardage late in the Chiefs game, so
I guess he's doing his best to keep DA on the bench.

Look I'm not going to call you a fan boy, but DA is who he is small, kinda slow, can't get separation, and isn't a big play guy. We need jones out there because of the top 4 wry we have only two are capable of spreading the field. DA is lost because there's just a lot more talent out on the field with him on the bench.

As for multiple TE sets I don't mind two sets, but anything beyond that and defenses find it easy to shut down AJ. Whilemimdo like our top 3 TEs a lot I just don't want to see them all on the field at once..... Unless it's goal line.

thunderkyss
10-21-2010, 05:02 PM
Answer me this: will our defense help us win any low scoring games this year? If our offense struggles and only puts up 13 points, will we even have a chance to win a game because of our defense?

You seem very selective in your analysis. Our offense is not going to score on every drive. That's beyond realistic expectations. Sometimes, the D is going to have to carry the load, which is indicative of a well-balanced team.

We are not a well-balanced team, and the only way we appear to be able to obtain wins is if our offense just wins a shoot out. That is indicative of a crappy cellar-dwelling defense. Nobody respects them, but our offense has garnered tremendous respect from opposing teams.

At the moment, I would say no. We won't win a game based on the strength of our defense.. maybe in December, but not anytime soon.

I don't want them to score on every possession. But to beat the Colts, you have to do better than 1 out of 4. To beat most teams, if you aren't talking about touchdowns, 1 out of 4 won't get it.

But let's be selective.
1st half Washington
Defense: 5 possessions 1 punt 2 field goals 2 touchdowns
20% success rate..... 60% not allowing a touchdown

Offense: 5 Possessions 1 interception 1 missed field goal 1 punt 1 touchdown
20% success rate

1st halfDallas
Defense: 4 possessions 1 TOD 1 punt 1 field goal 1 touchdown
50% success rate (no points allowed) 75% success not allowing a TD

Offense: 3 possessions 2 punts 1 field goal
0% success rate scoring TDs 33% success scoring 66% failure

1st halfOakland:
Defense7 possessions 1 fumble, 4 punts, 2 TDs
71% success (no score)

Offense 7 possessions 1 missed FG, 4 punts, 2 TDs
42% scoring success.

1st halfGiants
defense6 possessions 2 punts 1 FG 3 TDs
33% success rate, 50% success, not allowing TDs

offense6 possessions 1 Int, 4 punts, 1 field goal
three possessions 3 plays or less
five possessions 4 plays or less
four possessions less than 1:51long
five possessions less than 2:26 long
0% TD scoring
16% scoring success


I think it is very difficult to judge our defense, when this is what our offense has been doing to us. I believe this is why we are digging ourselves out of holes. Not that the defense is great or anything, but our offense takes a while to get started, & our defense can't hold at the point of attack long enough for them to get into the fight.

The worst game (IMHO) was dallas. we were only down by 7 points to start the second half. But the offense never got into it. That one TD, was garbage time.

thunderkyss
10-21-2010, 05:18 PM
I think TK (I could be completely wrong) is saying that our ticket is our offense so he'd rather talk about the problems there and how to get some issues over there fixed. Sure our defense is absolutely terrible, but our offense is supposed to be great so they need to actually be that. If our defense even starts playing on the decent side of things, we'll still need our offense to be the dominant force for us to win and go deep a possible play-off stretch.


That's a big part of it. Kubiak is an offensive coach. Though we've changed things, tweaked things, this offensive team has been together (mostly) for 4 years. Schuab has been here for 4 years, Walter, AJ, Winston, OD, Brisiel, 5 years. Brown, 3 years, Myers 4 years..... this offense should be pretty mature.

Defense... Demeco, Mario 5 years. Okoye, Diles, Antonio 4 years, Quin, Pollard Cushing 2 years. Wilson 3 years?? Kj 1 year.... Frank Bush 2 years, David Gibbs 2 years.

We aren't so mature on the defensive side of the ball. They're still learning each others names. We gave up 20 points a game last year?? So it's not like we were great to begin with.

I think they will be in time. But not now.

thunderkyss
10-21-2010, 05:27 PM
1st halfGiants
defense6 possessions 2 punts 1 FG 3 TDs
33% success rate, 50% success, not allowing TDs

offense6 possessions 1 Int, 4 punts, 1 field goal
three possessions 3 plays or less
two possessions 4 plays or less
four possessions less than 1:51long
five possessions less than 2:26 long
0% TD scoring
16% scoring success


I think it is very difficult to judge our defense, when this is what our offense has been doing to us. I believe this is why we are digging ourselves out of holes. Not that the defense is great or anything, but our offense takes a while to get started, & our defense can't hold at the point of attack long enough for them to get into the fight.

The worst game (IMHO) we were only down by 10 points to start the second half. But the offense never got into it. That one TD, was garbage time.

I just wanted to add. That Giants game, where we got our butts handed to us. 34-13 or whatever. Those stats are only from the first half. The second half, our sorry, sorry, sucky defense opened by forcing a 3 & out. An Int, and second INT, this one put the offense on the 17 yard line, which led to the only TD we scored in the game.

I honestly don't see how anyone can blame this game on our Defense. They played good enough to win.

Texecutioner
10-21-2010, 05:57 PM
This is just my opinion. But if I were Kubiak, the thing I would do to fix this thing, would be to fix the offense.

Kubiak is an offensive genius, we've got talent all over the offense: Slaton, Ward, Dressen, JJ, Walter, Owen, Andre & Vontae (that's a football playa right there!), let's keep our defense off the field.

If it works against the Colts, why won't it work against the other 9 teams on our schedule?

I doubt we had as many 3 & outs (on offense) all of last year, as we've already seen this year.

Kubes is an offensive genius? Lol!!

He's never even coached a playoff team for heaven's sake.


And there is one thing you're forgetting about when you mention what the Colts do. They have Peydon Manning and he's one of the best QB's of all time. That's the difference.

thunderkyss
10-22-2010, 04:51 AM
Another thing.

Why is it ok to expect tha defense to bring their A-Game everyday, to shut down opposing teams on every play, but not reasonable to expect our offense (the strength of the team) to do the same?

The defense was there in Dallas, at least for half the game. It was there against NYGiants too. Say what you will, but the only difference between our wins & losses so far this year, is that the offense showed up in the second half of our wins, & not at all in our losses. KansasCity was feeling awful familiar when the O came out and went 3&out to start the third Qtr.

76Texan
10-22-2010, 10:28 AM
This is just my opinion. But if I were Kubiak, the thing I would do to fix this thing, would be to fix the offense.

Kubiak is an offensive genius, we've got talent all over the offense: Slaton, Ward, Dressen, JJ, Walter, Owen, Andre & Vontae (that's a football playa right there!), let's keep our defense off the field.

If it works against the Colts, why won't it work against the other 9 teams on our schedule?

I doubt we had as many 3 & outs (on offense) all of last year, as we've already seen this year.

I didn't see Schaub in the list of playmakers.
So that's our problem right there!

This team needs Schaub to play the way he's capable of playing for the offense to be highly effective.

Our linemen will get beat from times to times.
Our receivers (most likely JJ) will drop a ball or two.

Schaub needs to stay cool and the offense should be "fixed".

thunderkyss
10-22-2010, 10:49 AM
I didn't see Schaub in the list of playmakers.
So that's our problem right there!

This team needs Schaub to play the way he's capable of playing for the offense to be highly effective.

Our linemen will get beat from times to times.
Our receivers (most likely JJ) will drop a ball or two.

Schaub needs to stay cool and the offense should be "fixed".

I agree 100% on the first part. Yes, Schaub needs to be a playmaker from the word go. He needs to play the way he has in all our comebacks, without being pressured, without our backs to the wall.

Stay cool is okay, but I think that led to a lot of balls chucked into the stands, against the Raiders. If our offense would have found a way to convert more third downs in that game, we wouldn't have given up 24 points on defense.

I don't expect the offense to score 31 points a game (though that would be extremely nice to hang a hat on). I just need them to stop going three & out, and put up some points on more drives. Field goals would be fine in many of these cases.

Rey
10-22-2010, 12:26 PM
Another thing.

Why is it ok to expect tha defense to bring their A-Game everyday, to shut down opposing teams on every play, but not reasonable to expect our offense (the strength of the team) to do the same?

The defense was there in Dallas, at least for half the game. It was there against NYGiants too. Say what you will, but the only difference between our wins & losses so far this year, is that the offense showed up in the second half of our wins, & not at all in our losses. KansasCity was feeling awful familiar when the O came out and went 3&out to start the third Qtr.

Yeah, that is true.

thunderkyss
10-23-2010, 07:54 AM
Okay guys, truth be told..... the Kansas City game shot a hole in my theory. The Texans had a drive in the third Qtr that took 5:52 seconds. Our defense came on the field, allowed KC to gain 63 yards & score a TD. The opening drive touchdown & a touchdown on their first possession after half-time doesn't help either.


Here's the summary.
1st Half

KC 8:37 15 plays 73 yards TD
Hou 2:18 3 plays 9 yards Punt

KC 3:17 6 plays 28 yards Punt
Hou 3:00 6 plays 37 yards Punt

KC 1:26 3 plays 6 yards Punt
Hou 4:37 9 plays 74 yards TD

KC 2:34 4 plays 23 yards Punt
Hou 1:58 3 plays -4 yards Punt

KC 2:00 7 plays 63 yards TD
Hou 0:13 1 play .............. Knee


2nd Half


Hou 2:18 3 plays -5 yards Punt
KC 4:53 9 plays 77 yards TD

Hou 7:02 3 plays 66 yards TD
KC 4:04 9 plays 65 yards FG

Hou 5:52 11 plays 46 yards TD
KC 5:01 9 plays 63 yards TD

Hou 3:35 8 plays 86 yards TD
KC 1:08 3 plays 8 yards Punt

Hou 1:54 9 plays 80 yards TD
KC 0:28 4 plays 11 yards End of Game


So, as far as the questions about being prepared, or being ready to play, I think the game summary shows they were ready to play. At least the defense was. On 10 possessions, they got 5 stops a field goal, but allowed 4 TDs... That's definitely got to come down.

Offensively, we didn't score on 5 possessions (1 of which we didn't try, we took the knee & went into half-time). We scored TDs on 5... wow.

The first half, our defense allowed 204 yards of offense & 14 points. My "theory" is if our offense would have stayed on the field, we wouldn't have given up as much yardage, & that second touchdown surely wouldn't have happened.

Offensively, we gained 110 yards and scored 7 points.

In the second half, our defense didn't play much better, allowing 231 yards and 17 points. Our offense gained 306 yards and scored 28 points. At first glance, it would appear that our defense is bad no matter what, whether the offense scores or not.

But my theory has been based on time & rest. We kicked but in the second half, but didn't use much more time at all to do so. In the first half, we possessed the ball 12:02 seconds. In the second half, 12:06 seconds. It's also interesting, that two of our best three defensive possessions were our last two, allowing 8 yards, then 11.

2 of our scoring drives in the second half took less than 2 minutes, one of which was an 80 yard drive.

So I don't know what to think about our Texans, or this game. The tackling seen here was atrocious, which wasn't the case in our previous 5 games.

Scooter
10-23-2010, 08:51 AM
i agree with the general premise TK, and support the theory that if we came out better on offense that our defense would see improvements because of it. that being said, i dont think you can link the two so heavily. if anything, our defense is a cause for offensive struggles IMO. we force far too few 3 and outs and rarely give our offense a short field to work with. playcalling from our own 20 is vastly different from starting drives at the 40 or even in enemy territory.

have we forced a first half turnover yet? how many first half 3 and outs? i'm as optomistic and defensive of what we're doing as they come, but there are very few ways our defense could be worse regardless of what the offense is doing. 31st in both yards allowed and points allowed has zilch to do with the offense. sure if we scored on every drive we might improve those numbers into the mid 20's through the offense alone (of which we're 5th in yards and 6th in scoring), but that's simply not realistic.

there's no way to spin it IMO, and splitting it by when teams are doing the damage doesnt actually matter. our defense is a black hole. i've got full faith that the bye week will be the equivelant of our "week 4 awakening" like last season, but through 6 games there's really no arguement about what's taking place.

thunderkyss
10-23-2010, 09:02 AM
i agree with the general premise TK, and support the theory that if we came out better on offense that our defense would see improvements because of it. that being said, i dont think you can link the two so heavily. if anything, our defense is a cause for offensive struggles IMO. we force far too few 3 and outs and rarely give our offense a short field to work with. playcalling from our own 20 is vastly different from starting drives at the 40 or even in enemy territory.

have we forced a first half turnover yet? how many first half 3 and outs? i'm as optomistic and defensive of what we're doing as they come, but there are very few ways our defense could be worse regardless of what the offense is doing. 31st in both yards allowed and points allowed has zilch to do with the offense. sure if we scored on every drive we might improve those numbers into the mid 20's through the offense alone (of which we're 5th in yards and 6th in scoring), but that's simply not realistic.

there's no way to spin it IMO, and splitting it by when teams are doing the damage doesnt actually matter. our defense is a black hole. i've got full faith that the bye week will be the equivelant of our "week 4 awakening" like last season, but through 6 games there's really no arguement about what's taking place.

Good points. & I don't mean to be argumentative. But we've seen this defense this year kick some booty when teams are forced to pass. May be a little short sited by the coaches, but it appears that's what we are built for. If our offense gets us that early lead, with help from our defense stopping the run..... we'll make the other guys one dimensional.

I think you'd be surprised how many three & outs & punts we've forced in the first half of games that we weren't able to take advantage of on offense.

The Raider game stands out.

If the premise is that we must force 3 & outs & punts in the first half, then it stands to reason our offense cannot go 3 & out & punt in the first half. I think our defense has been doing it's part.

The Giants game not so much.... but they started the second half with three great series that our offense couldn't take advantage of.

welsh texan
10-23-2010, 01:15 PM
I love me some Owen as well, but with the way Dressen has stepped up, and Casey looking good in limited snaps, why aren't we being more creative with two & three TE sets?

I can actually remember one play last week where OD caught a 3rd down pass and the announcer said he was in easy coverage because Dreesen was getting doubled.

I thought that was pretty damn cool.