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Rey
10-18-2010, 10:16 PM
Does it bother anyone that our special teams have looked less than Special this year?

I think our coverage has been good for the most part, but we have looked awfully pedestrian in the return game...

It's not like we haven't had our chances.

I wonder what the problem is...returners? unlucky breaks? guys not blocking as well? New rules on kickoffs disallowing the wedge?

Maybe my amnesia is kicking in, but I don't remember us being so bad in the return game in years past....

Then we had to take a timeout this past game because of guys not being on the field...They have just seemed a bit sloppy to me...

J_R
10-18-2010, 10:22 PM
According to Kubiak, mostly bad blocking. Though that's taking him for his word. Could be "coach speak" and not wanting to call out Slaton.

Some fans would say it's the returner himself.

I'll say it's probably a mix of both.

NitroGSXR
10-18-2010, 10:37 PM
According to Kubiak, mostly bad blocking. Though that's taking him for his word. Could be "coach speak" and not wanting to call out Slaton.

Some fans would say it's the returner himself.

I'll say it's probably a mix of both.

All I know is that the Chiefs kept kicking off into corners yesterday. I believe to continue to expose Slaton's subpar thinking skills. The laughable part is that Slaton almost bit once again. Sheesh!

Definitely both with all the block in the backs that we like to do.

noxiousdog
10-18-2010, 10:38 PM
Even if it is coaching, he's had a lot more good years than bad years. I'd give him a pass.

House of Pain
10-18-2010, 11:26 PM
I posted about this in another thread:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1555591&postcount=33

buddyboy
10-19-2010, 02:28 AM
Can someone explain why they were pooch kicking it to us when Slaton struggles to get to the 10???

Mean Machine
10-19-2010, 10:17 AM
I am thinking the ST are suffering due to injuries and pretty big change over in personnel.
Bentley our ST captain has been out.
Andre Davis is lost for the year.
Those are two key guys right there.
We are thin at LB and have had a big turnover in the def backfield too.
Coach marciano will get it squared away.
The bye week is coming perfect time for us.

eriadoc
10-19-2010, 10:28 AM
According to Kubiak, mostly bad blocking. Though that's taking him for his word. Could be "coach speak" and not wanting to call out Slaton.

Some fans would say it's the returner himself.

I'll say it's probably a mix of both.

I wish I could post video. Slaton has been awful as a kick returner. When he does get blocking, he doesn't have a concept about blocking lanes, and he just wants to try and get outside too soon. There's some blocking issues as well, which has a lot to do with the injuries sustained. A lot of the ST guys are injured and go unnoticed because they aren't in the starting eleven, but it impacts the team. Sharpton, Bentley, Molden come to mind, and probably at least one of our TEs.

RagingBull
10-19-2010, 02:31 PM
http://www.motleycollegefootball.com/Images/LloydShortBusSpecialTeams.jpg

VTexan
10-19-2010, 02:33 PM
I am thinking the ST are suffering due to injuries and pretty big change over in personnel.
Bentley our ST captain has been out.
Andre Davis is lost for the year.
Those are two key guys right there.
We are thin at LB and have had a big turnover in the def backfield too.
Coach marciano will get it squared away.
The bye week is coming perfect time for us.

Also Holliday getting injured leaving us with a hole at KR.

Rey
11-22-2010, 04:53 PM
Special tema have not done much of anything all year.

The return game has been awful...Both punt and Kick return...

Lota of people wanted Jacoby to return kicks, but he's looked as bad as Slaton did earlier in the year...

I'm thinking Trindon has a better shot to make this team next year now...

Rey
11-22-2010, 04:53 PM
I will give Kudos for the two blocks this year...the punt black against the Chargers and the field goal against the Skins...

TimeKiller
11-22-2010, 07:44 PM
It is starting to seem like returning it to the 20 has become a mini victory. Slaton's return skills were dookie but I think it's worth giving him a screen or two a game, that's what he was deadly on. I dunno, I mean if you're not going to play him at all...as a 3rd round pick...it's time to move on. It's to bad Jeremiah Johnson isn't around...

TexanSam
11-22-2010, 07:49 PM
I will give Kudos for the two blocks this year...the punt black against the Chargers and the field goal against the Skins...

Plus it looked like they tipped one yesterday on a PAT but it went through the uprights anyway.

kiwitexansfan
11-22-2010, 07:56 PM
Fire Joe too..... fire them all, including the interns and janitors.

Scooter
11-22-2010, 08:02 PM
am i the only one that thinks our blockers on kick returns are set up WAY too close to the returner? the jets kicked fairly short, but jacoby seemed to always be waiting on his blockers. by the time they got going, it was already too late to position for a solid block - letting several guys come free and our wedge hitting nobody (or just creating a pile directly infront of jacoby).

CretorFrigg
11-22-2010, 08:02 PM
Fire Joe too..... fire them all, including the interns and janitors.

I'm surprised nobody has commented on our young punter, Matt Turk. He sure is doing a good job bootin' it 50+ yards.

By the way, am I the only one who's noticed Neil Racker frequently kicks a low line drive during kick-offs?

Hervoyel
11-22-2010, 08:11 PM
Special tema have not done much of anything all year.

The return game has been awful...Both punt and Kick return...

Lota of people wanted Jacoby to return kicks, but he's looked as bad as Slaton did earlier in the year...

I'm thinking Trindon has a better shot to make this team next year now...

Jacoby is doing this thing where he catches the ball and seems to pause for a second or two before taking off. I've noticed it the last couple of games and it's costing him in the return game. He's not getting past the first wave very often doing that. Personally I think he doesn't want to do it and this is his way of telling the coaches he's a full time receiver and this return crap is no longer his cup of tea.

Scooter
11-22-2010, 08:12 PM
I'm surprised nobody has commented on our young punter, Matt Turk. He sure is doing a good job bootin' it 50+ yards.

By the way, am I the only one who's noticed Neil Racker frequently kicks a low line drive during kick-offs?

yeah, what happened to our kickers? turk hasnt hit a solid ball in weeks and if rackers' kickoffs get much lower somebody in the front wedge is going to start fielding them.

Rey
11-22-2010, 08:35 PM
am i the only one that thinks our blockers on kick returns are set up WAY too close to the returner? the jets kicked fairly short, but jacoby seemed to always be waiting on his blockers. by the time they got going, it was already too late to position for a solid block - letting several guys come free and our wedge hitting nobody (or just creating a pile directly infront of jacoby).

You may be on to something...

Kubiak said something was wrong with the blocking on kick returns today on the radio...

Rey
11-22-2010, 08:36 PM
Jacoby is doing this thing where he catches the ball and seems to pause for a second or two before taking off. I've noticed it the last couple of games and it's costing him in the return game. He's not getting past the first wave very often doing that. Personally I think he doesn't want to do it and this is his way of telling the coaches he's a full time receiver and this return crap is no longer his cup of tea.

lol...

I hope that's not what he'd doing....

It looks like if Trindon could have stayed healthy and hung onto the ball he would have been more valuable than we thought...

Rey
11-22-2010, 08:37 PM
yeah, what happened to our kickers? turk hasnt hit a solid ball in weeks and if rackers' kickoffs get much lower somebody in the front wedge is going to start fielding them.

During the jets game the announcers said that Turk was injured...

kiwitexansfan
11-22-2010, 08:42 PM
Alex Henery, Nebraska, fixes all our kicking game issues.

devo-x
11-22-2010, 09:47 PM
Would Rackers punt if Turk was out?

texanhead08
11-22-2010, 10:21 PM
Its Kris Brown's fault.

hookinreds
11-22-2010, 10:34 PM
Jacoby is doing this thing where he catches the ball and seems to pause for a second or two before taking off. I've noticed it the last couple of games and it's costing him in the return game. He's not getting past the first wave very often doing that. Personally I think he doesn't want to do it and this is his way of telling the coaches he's a full time receiver and this return crap is no longer his cup of tea.

I commented on that to my buddy yesterday too. It seemed like forever before he started, and had to cost himself at least 5-7 yards on the return.

Rey
12-14-2010, 10:16 AM
Is Marciano as good as people thought he was???

Honest question because I don't know...When I started this thread about two months ago, that is what I really wanted to know. That is why I specifically put his name in the title.

I've seen him looking lost quite a few times on the sideline when guys were not on the field and were supposed to be out there. I mean, that's his baby...That's pretty much the only thing he has to do...And yet we have looked abysmal this season.

Has he benefited from having good returners in the past, or is he struggling to adjust to the new wedge rules...

I can't really blame him for those missed tackles on that TD return...And we don't generally allow long returns like that, so he is doing something right.

TexanExile
12-14-2010, 10:23 AM
If he was good, it doesn't look like it in 2010. Steve Slaton has evolved from a fast guy into a dumb guy. Our kickoff returns absolutely stink this year...I've never seen anybody make stupid mistakes or run directly into the pile like the 2010 version of Slaton.

Top that with the Jacoby Jones Patented Open Space Fair Catch that occurs at least once every game and I'm inclined to believe that scheme is involved.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope Marciano's just as gone as Kubiak at the end of the year. Last night they (special teams) were a big part of the difference in points and field position but it's more than just last night.

GP
12-14-2010, 10:29 AM
If he was good, it doesn't look like it in 2010. Steve Slaton has evolved from a fast guy into a dumb guy. Our kickoff returns absolutely stink this year...I've never seen anybody make stupid mistakes or run directly into the pile like the 2010 version of Slaton.

Top that with the Jacoby Jones Patented Open Space Fair Catch that occurs at least once every game and I'm inclined to believe that scheme is involved.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope Marciano's just as gone as Kubiak at the end of the year. Last night they (special teams) were a big part of the difference in points and field position but it's more than just last night.

Just thinking out loud here...

Who do you think made the decision to stick Slaton back there to return kickoffs?

My bet is that Kubiak MANDATED to marciano that Slaton would be returning kicks. Why? Because Kubiak is loyal-to-a-fault like that. He feels bad that Slaton lost his RB job to Foster and Ward, so this is how he makes it up to him.

I think Kubiak has poisoned everything over the past five years. Like a drop of arsenic every day, never noticing the effects until the day the level of arsenic is too strong for the body to handle.

I love Joe Joe Marciano. I really do. Maybe he's being affected by the structure around him. Or maybe he's just losing his touch.

But the ST has been fairly weak this year.

Rey
12-14-2010, 10:43 AM
Just thinking out loud here...

Who do you think made the decision to stick Slaton back there to return kickoffs?

My bet is that Kubiak MANDATED to marciano that Slaton would be returning kicks. Why? Because Kubiak is loyal-to-a-fault like that. He feels bad that Slaton lost his RB job to Foster and Ward, so this is how he makes it up to him.

I think Kubiak has poisoned everything over the past five years. Like a drop of arsenic every day, never noticing the effects until the day the level of arsenic is too strong for the body to handle.

I love Joe Joe Marciano. I really do. Maybe he's being affected by the structure around him. Or maybe he's just losing his touch.

But the ST has been fairly weak this year.

You are probably somewhat right...

I don't know if he held a strict position regarding who would be returning kicks, but he and Marciano probably collaborated on who'd be doing the returning...

I think that if Marciano could have had it his way he'd have atleast rotated different return guys in just to see who could do it the best.

Rey
12-14-2010, 10:44 AM
If he was good, it doesn't look like it in 2010. Steve Slaton has evolved from a fast guy into a dumb guy. Our kickoff returns absolutely stink this year...I've never seen anybody make stupid mistakes or run directly into the pile like the 2010 version of Slaton.

Top that with the Jacoby Jones Patented Open Space Fair Catch that occurs at least once every game and I'm inclined to believe that scheme is involved.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope Marciano's just as gone as Kubiak at the end of the year. Last night they (special teams) were a big part of the difference in points and field position but it's more than just last night.

I would not be upset if Marciano is gone. But I am not sure if he is as bad a coach as his unit reflects this year.

Maybe we have just been spoiled by having such great return men in this franchises history and this one down year is just an anomaly???

buddyboy
12-14-2010, 11:42 AM
Just thinking out loud here...

Who do you think made the decision to stick Slaton back there to return kickoffs?

My bet is that Kubiak MANDATED to marciano that Slaton would be returning kicks. Why? Because Kubiak is loyal-to-a-fault like that. He feels bad that Slaton lost his RB job to Foster and Ward, so this is how he makes it up to him.

I think Kubiak has poisoned everything over the past five years. Like a drop of arsenic every day, never noticing the effects until the day the level of arsenic is too strong for the body to handle.

I love Joe Joe Marciano. I really do. Maybe he's being affected by the structure around him. Or maybe he's just losing his touch.

But the ST has been fairly weak this year.

You really hate Kubiak.

It's easier to throw all the blame on one person and villify them than to hold everyone accountable. The players are at fault, the coaches are at fault, and h*ll yes, Kubiak is at fault. But I doubt that Kubiak rules Middle Earth with an iron fist.

devo-x
12-20-2010, 08:06 PM
How can Texans ST improve over the next two games?

I would like to see ST or Defense score at least once .....

DexmanC
12-20-2010, 08:31 PM
If he was good, it doesn't look like it in 2010. Steve Slaton has evolved from a fast guy into a dumb guy. Our kickoff returns absolutely stink this year...I've never seen anybody make stupid mistakes or run directly into the pile like the 2010 version of Slaton.

Top that with the Jacoby Jones Patented Open Space Fair Catch that occurs at least once every game and I'm inclined to believe that scheme is involved.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hope Marciano's just as gone as Kubiak at the end of the year. Last night they (special teams) were a big part of the difference in points and field position but it's more than just last night.

Joe Marciano told a story on 610 last year that makes me think Kubiak
handcuffs his ability to be as aggressive on his special teams design
than a lot of coaches are. Titans, Jags, the old guy on the
Jets ALL have head coaches that allow them to attack a team
with their special teams game. Kubiak is all about limiting mistakes,
and by extension, limiting aggression.

buddyboy
12-20-2010, 08:37 PM
Joe Marciano told a story on 610 last year that makes me think Kubiak
handcuffs his ability to be as aggressive on his special teams design
than a lot of coaches are. Titans, Jags, the old guy on the
Jets ALL have head coaches that allow them to attack a team
with their special teams game. Kubiak is all about limiting mistakes,
and by extension, limiting aggression.

He went for a pass inside their own 10 yard line on third down during overtime. That was pretty aggressive if you ask me.

Look how that turned out.

DexmanC
12-20-2010, 08:41 PM
He went for a pass inside their own 10 yard line on third down during overtime. That was pretty aggressive if you ask me.

Look how that turned out.

I was talking about how Kubiak limits Maricano's ability to be aggressive
with special teams.

buddyboy
12-20-2010, 08:46 PM
I was talking about how Kubiak limits Maricano's ability to be aggressive
with special teams.

Oh you're right. Slaton not being able to get across the 20 is Kubiak's fault.

DexmanC
12-20-2010, 08:49 PM
Oh you're right. Slaton not being able to get across the 20 is Kubiak's fault.

That just may be. There is no use of misdirection, gadgets, or
any other creativity this season from the Texans' special teams
unit. I just watched the Jags score on a Fake Fair Catch against
the Colts yesterday, for instance.

JB
12-20-2010, 08:50 PM
Oh you're right. Slaton not being able to get across the 20 is Kubiak's fault.

there is a lot more to special teams than just kick off returns.

buddyboy
12-20-2010, 09:13 PM
there is a lot more to special teams than just kick off returns.

But that's the post he quoted; someone complaining about Slaton sucking as a kick returner.

That just may be. There is no use of misdirection, gadgets, or
any other creativity this season from the Texans' special teams
unit. I just watched the Jags score on a Fake Fair Catch against
the Colts yesterday, for instance.

Dex, you're right, there are some things we should do, but if you're arguing Slaton isn't a terrible returner, it's all on Kubiak, we're just not on the same page.

JB
12-20-2010, 09:20 PM
But that's the post he quoted; someone complaining about Slaton sucking as a kick returner.



Dex, you're right, there are some things we should do, but if you're arguing Slaton isn't a terrible returner, it's all on Kubiak, we're just not on the same page.

Sorry, I was replying to post #34,35 & 36. I did not see #37 & 38 before I posted.

dream_team
12-20-2010, 09:29 PM
I know everyone wants to pinpoint our return woes on Slaton... but did you know Jacoby is only doing two yards per return better than Steve? They are both towards the bottom in the league. This leads me to believe it's more on the blocking than the return man.

According to this site's formula, we have the 6th worst special teams in the league. Our only positive portion of special teams has been field goal kicking.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst

CloakNNNdagger
12-20-2010, 09:33 PM
And it hasn't been inability that has kept Brown (last year) and Rackers this year from kicking the the ball into the EZ. In practice, both could be seen knocking the ball out of the park. The short kicks with milisecond hang times to the 10 and 15 yd lines in games are evidently "coached." If we had good coverage teams like in the earlier years, you could say that it gave us a chance to get down the field quickly and hit hard and get turnovers. We've had terrible coverage and no turnovers and resulting crappy field position..............and we STILL continue to kick off short..........now ain't THAT special?

Rey
12-20-2010, 10:03 PM
We've also had a few injuries and we have gotten rid of a few vets...New guys playing special teams as well...

CloakNNNdagger
12-21-2010, 07:49 AM
During the jets game the announcers said that Turk was injured...

Injury reports have been so arbitrary. For the past couple of months, Turk has been fighting through a debilitating "hip" injury. Yet no one has been brought in to at least temporarily rest him.

HOU-TEX
12-21-2010, 09:10 AM
Injury reports have been so arbitrary. For the past couple of months, Turk has been fighting through a debilitating "hip" injury. Yet no one has been brought in to at least temporarily rest him.

Yeah, this is what urks the heck out of me. The dude's been stinkin it up darn near all season and we haven't done a dadgum thing about it? But when we have a position player or their back up go down, we bring in 2 or 3 players for workouts? Turk must owe Kubiak money or something. Geez

NitroGSXR
12-21-2010, 09:15 AM
Yeah, this is what urks the heck out of me. The dude's been stinkin it up darn near all season and we haven't done a dadgum thing about it? But when we have a position player or their back up go down, we bring in 2 or 3 players for workouts? Turk must owe Kubiak money or something. Geez
Turk's kicking actually helps our defense. They don't give up as many yards and that's a fact, Jack!

HOU-TEX
12-21-2010, 09:28 AM
Turk's kicking actually helps our defense. They don't give up as many yards and that's a fact, Jack!

:lol: That's one way of looking at it

Hervoyel
12-21-2010, 10:57 AM
I don't believe I'll care if a new coach comes in and wants to change the special teams coaching. If he chooses to retain Marciano then I probably won't be all that upset either. I think we've had a bad year on special teams but that generally we're solid if unspectacular and solid is enough most of the time. Marciano can do better and more than likely will again.

But he's had a bad year though, no doubt about it.

Rackers hasn't been bad but Turk is done. Time catches up with everyone eventually.

Rey
12-21-2010, 11:10 AM
I was talking about how Kubiak limits Maricano's ability to be aggressive
with special teams.

Even if that's the case, this has really been the first year that our return game has really suffered...

drs23
12-21-2010, 12:54 PM
If there's a change in ST coaching perhaps it will be with someone who will let Holliday just go with his instincts and speed to be that guy that he was drafted to be. If he can catch the ball :laughjump:

CloakNNNdagger
12-21-2010, 05:45 PM
If there's a change in ST coaching perhaps it will be with someone who will let Holliday just go with his instincts and speed to be that guy that he was drafted to be. If he can catch the ball :laughjump:

He may have had some problems with hanging on to the ball at LSU. But even so, it's hard to catch a ball without a thumb.:kubepalm:

Norg
12-21-2010, 06:15 PM
Well da blockers are mostly our 2nd stringers and Leech

IMO Leech is to slow to be on special teams

everyone knows the punter is the QB of the SPecial Teams and TURK needs to go thats whats wrong with our Special teams


ANd the recivers Man SLaton just sucks at returning kicks JJ two all that SUckage and what do u expect LOL

I dont know if Trindon Holiday is the answer But we Deff need to Draft the best punter off the board YEAH i SAID IT

NitroGSXR
12-21-2010, 06:23 PM
He may have had some problems with hanging on to the ball at LSU. But even so, it's hard to catch a ball without a thumb.:kubepalm:

Something about this whole thumb issue doesn't mesh right with me. I'm thinking they really did not want to leave him exposed on the practice squad.

I was a big fan of Holliday and still am despite his preseason struggles. I believe he has tons of potential. I saw that upon his very first return before he got "coached up". There are some players that you just let them be. Let the kid run on space. Worry about coaching up the blockers or solving the new wedge rule change.

Norg
12-21-2010, 06:27 PM
Holiday is going to be on a short Leash this Offseason he going to have to fight to make this team imo

CloakNNNdagger
12-21-2010, 07:35 PM
Something about this whole thumb issue doesn't mesh right with me. I'm thinking they really did not want to leave him exposed on the practice squad.

I was a big fan of Holliday and still am despite his preseason struggles. I believe he has tons of potential. I saw that upon his very first return before he got "coached up". There are some players that you just let them be. Let the kid run on space. Worry about coaching up the blockers or solving the new wedge rule change.

I have a feeling that Holliday has a very good chance of proving himself on KO returns (we'll have to see on P returns). In preseason, he actually had 4 out of his 5 KO returns go for greater than 20 yds (ave on those 5 being 24 yds). The STs blocking in preseason was even more of a mess than it has been in regular season. The offseason camps and TC/ preseason should go a long way to Holliday's development.

devo-x
12-24-2010, 08:28 PM
Neil Rackers is the only bright spot on ST this year

CloakNNNdagger
12-24-2010, 09:09 PM
Neil Rackers is the only bright spot on ST this year

Indeed, he has been pretty consistent. But if you've noticed, Kubiak has usually not trotted him out there for greater than 50 yd attempts........something that has proven to be somewhat limiting in options in potentially important situations.

Rey
12-25-2010, 05:15 PM
Indeed, he has been pretty consistent. But if you've noticed, Kubiak has usually not trotted him out there for greater than 50 yd attempts........something that has proven to be somewhat limiting in options in potentially important situations.

Yep...


Definitely has limited us a bit...

And if I'm not mistaken he missed a long one recently by coming up just short...

Rey
10-10-2012, 04:20 PM
I know everyone wants to pinpoint our return woes on Slaton... but did you know Jacoby is only doing two yards per return better than Steve? They are both towards the bottom in the league. This leads me to believe it's more on the blocking than the return man.

According to this site's formula, we have the 6th worst special teams in the league. Our only positive portion of special teams has been field goal kicking.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst


This is from 2010...

I think it's safe to say Coach Marciano is no longer an effective special teams coach in the NFL.

Sub Par performance going on 3 years now...

steelbtexan
10-15-2012, 09:13 AM
Another fine performance by coach Joes guys.

Posey offsides on a punt return set the tempo for the rest of the night.

Coach Joe must GO.

texanhead08
10-15-2012, 09:26 AM
He won't be fired mid season. You don't have an asst special teams coach like you do offense and defense so you are pretty much stuck until the season is over. You aren't going to bring in a guy from outside the organization mid year and have him in such an important capacity. We just have to hope it gets better, but I think the problems weren't all on Holiday it was the blocking as well.

Rey
10-15-2012, 10:12 AM
Just another reminder...

This thread was started 2 years ago. Coach Joe's special teams have not been special at all and I'm starting to wonder how he ever got labled as a special teams guru...

Maybe he lucked into some good returners...Maybe he hasn't adjusted to the wedge rule...

Not sure what the deal is exactly, but for this season's sake I'm hoping coach Joe gets this mess together...

CloakNNNdagger
10-15-2012, 05:40 PM
Reporter: Coach, what do you think of Coach Joes' ST as a whole?

Kubiak: As a hole?.........OK. As a ST?.........Not so good.

HJam72
10-15-2012, 05:49 PM
Just another reminder...

This thread was started 2 years ago. Coach Joe's special teams have not been special at all and I'm starting to wonder how he ever got labled as a special teams guru...

Maybe he lucked into some good returners...Maybe he hasn't adjusted to the wedge rule...

Not sure what the deal is exactly, but for this season's sake I'm hoping coach Joe gets this mess together...

That's the one.

At least K-Mart looked a lot better in this game as a returner than Holiday did the first five games.