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utahmark
10-18-2010, 11:07 AM
did'nt we decline that penalty. i keep hearing how it cost them the game but aj caught the ball and we declined the penalty, right?

it could of been called offensive PI but how often is that called. it should of just been a no call. Peter King even commented on how that kept us in the game. even if it was called offensive, the way we were moving the ball we would of still went down and scored.

--- if someone wants to edit my title, they are more than welcome.

hookinreds
10-18-2010, 11:13 AM
did'nt we decline that penalty. i keep hearing how it cost them the game but aj caught the ball and we declined the penalty, right?

it could of been called offensive PI but how often is that called. it should of just been a no call. Peter King even commented on how that kept us in the game. even if it was called offensive, the way we were moving the ball we would of still went down and scored.

--- if someone wants to edit my title, they are more than welcome.

I think Keller had it called against him on two plays in a row yesterday, Shockey had it called on him yesterday, and then I saw it two or three other times in games yesterday. AJ clearly shoved Flowers out of the way as the ball was dropping in, one of the worst calls I have ever seen. Did it cost KC the game? At that point it very well could have, since it definitly got us where we needed to be with little time left on the clock.

JB
10-18-2010, 11:14 AM
You are correct. The penalty was declined...

And yes, it should have been a no call. That umpiring crew makes a few wtf? calls every game. They were also very bad at missing holding calls.

silvrhand
10-18-2010, 11:14 AM
I think Keller had it called against him on two plays in a row yesterday, Shockey had it called on him yesterday, and then I saw it two or three other times in games yesterday. AJ clearly shoved Flowers out of the way as the ball was dropping in, one of the worst calls I have ever seen. Did it cost KC the game? At that point it very well could have, since it definitly got us where we needed to be with little time left on the clock.

I was too busy breaking up a fight between a drunken chief's fan that told another fan to stfu right in their face about 1" from it.. Ughhh...

HOU-TEX
10-18-2010, 11:15 AM
It probably should've been a no-call. But if there was going to be a penalty it should've been called offensive interference. I think AJ knew it too.

Goatcheese
10-18-2010, 11:18 AM
I think Keller had it called against him on two plays in a row yesterday, Shockey had it called on him yesterday, and then I saw it two or three other times in games yesterday. AJ clearly shoved Flowers out of the way as the ball was dropping in, one of the worst calls I have ever seen. Did it cost KC the game? At that point it very well could have, since it definitly got us where we needed to be with little time left on the clock.

From what I remember Flowers made some contact with AJ and then AJ took advantage of it to give him a little nudge with his forearm. I don't think either should have been called.

gtexan02
10-18-2010, 11:20 AM
Flowers looked like he was doing his best dirk nowitzki impression out there.

Initiate contact, then when AJ motions back, flail your arms about and make like you just got steamrolled trying to get the attention of the ref.

Luckily, the NFL refs are smarter than the NBA ones and the right call was made. It could have gone either way, but their player initiated it and the flag was thrown for that, not the push off

GP
10-18-2010, 11:23 AM
Boo hoo.

Count me as a fan who thinks Flowers shoved AJ first, and to top it off AJ didn't give Flowers as big of a shove as some of you are saying. If anything, he extending his forearm and used it as a "brace" so that Flowers could not move back into him. Not really a true "push," but just blocking him from coming back to AJ's body.

With all the holding calls the refs missed on the Chiefs o-line, I could care less. We had a Pass Intereference call on us that was very lame, as well, where our guy made contact right as the ball got there.

And Steve Tasker's Houston Hater ways was in full display yesterday. When Antonio Smith caught the Chiefs' LG twitching and caused a fals start on KC...Steve Tasker refused to admit that the LG did indeed FLINCH. Over and over, he kept showing the replay and then the very last time Tasker started stuttering because he realized that he was wrong. He couldn't finish his train of thought because his train derailed due to the evidence of the LG flinching.

From that point on, Tasker was crying about everything. The guy ranks up there with Paul MaGuire (also a former Bills player) who loves to hate Houston.

b0ng
10-18-2010, 11:24 AM
That "shove" that AJ gave was not blatant and was no more than incidental contact, much of which was goin on between the two players.

I ain't losin any sleep over this and neither is AJ. The refs screwed both teams on different valls throughout the game. What pisses me off is the Chief fans who act like the Texans played no part in the KC loss which is totally dishonest.

Blake
10-18-2010, 11:27 AM
Can we get some video on it? The one angle I saw showed AJ giving flowers a little nudge to push him past the ball. I guess I missed the Flowers contact. But he should have gotten a 2nd penalty for jawin in that refs ear for 5 minutes after.

This might help.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/18/1758910/chiefs-vs-texans-brandon-flowers-andre-johnson-discuss-pass

Blake
10-18-2010, 11:31 AM
Watched the replay. Watch how fast Flowers claps at the flag he thought was against AJ. Now that is funny.

I guess they called Flowers for bumping AJ durring his route.

Also Flowers decided that he would stop playing defense and instead start yelling for a flag while the ball is still in the air. Listen young man. Worry about begging for a call after the play. Not durring!

Nawzer
10-18-2010, 11:32 AM
It should've been a no call but we already got the yardage.

Hervoyel
10-18-2010, 11:34 AM
It may very well be just my imagination but I feel like I'm watching a presentation of the "National Yellow Flag League" this year. It just feels like they're calling more penalties than previously in almost every game I watch.

Like I said, I might be imagining it but it's the impression I have right now.

Kimmy
10-18-2010, 11:37 AM
I want to see some video of the coach yelling at Flowers after the call, all but pushing him back on the field to go yell at the ref some more.

The call was wrong, but that was pretty funny afterwards

BigBull17
10-18-2010, 11:41 AM
Watched the replay. Watch how fast Flowers claps at the flag he thought was against AJ. Now that is funny.

I guess they called Flowers for bumping AJ durring his route.

Also Flowers decided that he would stop playing defense and instead start yelling for a flag while the ball is still in the air. Listen young man. Worry about begging for a call after the play. Not durring!

AJ gave a shrewd, subtle nudge to Flowers. It would have been a great no call. There was no extension of the arm, which is why the other guys got their flags. As I have said before, Flowers and the Chiefs got away with a few throughout the game, so he can zip it.

Goatcheese
10-18-2010, 11:41 AM
Can we get some video on it? The one angle I saw showed AJ giving flowers a little nudge to push him past the ball. I guess I missed the Flowers contact. But he should have gotten a 2nd penalty for jawin in that refs ear for 5 minutes after.

This might help.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/18/1758910/chiefs-vs-texans-brandon-flowers-andre-johnson-discuss-pass

Thanks for the link.

Flowers clearly put his shoulder into AJ's chest at 0:14 to slow him down or redirect him. You're not allowed to make contact with the receiver to change his route more than 5 yards downfield.

:penalty:

NitroGSXR
10-18-2010, 11:41 AM
I'm not going to comment on any of the calls. It sure seemed like the referees were running behind the whole game. I don't know. They looked rather old to be frank...

False Start
10-18-2010, 11:44 AM
I was too busy breaking up a fight between a drunken chief's fan that told another fan to stfu right in their face about 1" from it.. Ughhh...

Yeah, that was messed up. That lady was just way out of hand.

I would still like to see a good replay of the "catch" right before the half.

Dread-Head
10-18-2010, 11:49 AM
did'nt we decline that penalty. i keep hearing how it cost them the game but aj caught the ball and we declined the penalty, right?

it could of been called offensive PI but how often is that called. it should of just been a no call. Peter King even commented on how that kept us in the game. even if it was called offensive, the way we were moving the ball we would of still went down and scored.

--- if someone wants to edit my title, they are more than welcome.

You touch a receiver 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage as the corner CLEARLY did that's a penalty. Johnson did the same thing to homeboy that he did to him. There should have been offsetting penalties, but when you consider that neither guy really gave the other a Michael Irvin-esque hard shove I wouldn't have called interference on EITHER of them.
Besides, let us NOT forget that Johnson is the best receiver in the NFL and would have made that catch in double coverage. Even if there was no penalty or contact, Johnson would have still made that catch.

badboy
10-18-2010, 11:51 AM
We have all seen that play before go either against the O, the D or as a no call. Houston finally gets one back.

eriadoc
10-18-2010, 11:56 AM
Flowers chucks AJ beyond 5 yards (immediately before they come together for the alleged PI) also, and they didn't call that. I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to stiff-arm a WR running down the field past 5 yards, and Flowers did just that.

disaacks3
10-18-2010, 11:58 AM
With all the holding calls the refs missed on the Chiefs o-line, I could care less.

No kidding. We got a whopping ONE when the Cody had the guy pulling on him all the way across the field. The Refs seem to ignore these things when the opponent is in Max Protect.

Ole Miss Texan
10-18-2010, 11:59 AM
That should not have been a penalty. Flowers had great coverage and was running stride for stride. His only contact was his shoulder pad touching Dre's chest as he was turning around to locate the ball.

If the ball fell incomplete or AJ caught it without two feet in bounds then that would have definite been a HUGE change in the game - accepting the bogus PI penalty. However Dre caught the ball and the "penalty" had zero impact on the play/game other than the fact it clearly affected Flowers' mindset.

Hookem Horns
10-18-2010, 12:00 PM
Where is video of the first pass interference call on that 4th down that kept the Chiefs first drive alive? To me that was pretty bogus. It looked like excellent defense on TV.

Then what about the 2nd Chiefs drive when the receiver trapped the ball to keep the drive going? The only reason that did not get overturned was because they apparently did not have a front view however from the back it looked like the ball hit the ground.

Both of those instances amounted to 14 points for the Chiefs.

Dutchrudder
10-18-2010, 12:02 PM
Can we get some video on it? The one angle I saw showed AJ giving flowers a little nudge to push him past the ball. I guess I missed the Flowers contact. But he should have gotten a 2nd penalty for jawin in that refs ear for 5 minutes after.

This might help.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/18/1758910/chiefs-vs-texans-brandon-flowers-andre-johnson-discuss-pass

Wow, what a bunch of whiny little bastards. It's like they completely forgot the other 55 minutes of the game.

GP
10-18-2010, 12:02 PM
I still don't think AJ pushed him.

AJ bends his arm at a 90-degree angle, and uses it more like a barrier than anything else. Sort of like you see in basketball when a defender bends his arm and keeps it still while defending a point guard.

Was there a movement by the forearm right before the catch? Yes. But Flowers was already out of position and moving too far down the field at the time the ball was coming down.

In all actuality, AJ didn't even have to do any of it. The ball was drifting out toward the sideline and Flowers was still moving upfield. Flowers had separated himself from the play due to the way AJ had to slow down and how the ball was drifting toward the sideline.

It should have been a no-call, as most are pointing out.

At that point, you could tell Andre Johnson was going to single-handedly will the team to victory. He just had that flow about him. You can see it in how he runs the routes, and it's just Game Over if Schaub has time to throw it to him.

GP
10-18-2010, 12:06 PM
Where is video of the first pass interference call on that 4th down that kept the Chiefs first drive alive? To me that was pretty bogus. It looked like excellent defense on TV.

Then what about the 2nd Chiefs drive when the receiver trapped the ball to keep the drive going? The only reason that did not get overturned was because they apparently did not have a front view however from the back it looked like the ball hit the ground.

Both of those instances amounted to 14 points for the Chiefs.

Yes, this is what i was referring to in my earlier posts on this thread.

I don't want to hear any complaining by Chiefs fans and no self-loathing from Texans fans on how we got "lucky" on that one.

There were about 6 calls/no-calls that aided the Chiefs yesterday.

And then there was Tasker on TV who was just irate about the obvious Chiefs false start (and yet he STILL refused to acknowledge that the LG did indeed flinch). Gus Johnson was like totally silent, essentially allowing Tasker to dig his own grave. Gus saw what the officials saw. He wasn't disagreeing with Tasker, but he sure wasn't joining in either.

Joe Texan
10-18-2010, 12:15 PM
It is the convicts call, we get called more than we get the call. Just another tissue for chiefs fan to dry thier little eyes with

ESAD2-14
10-18-2010, 12:24 PM
I'll add my two cents to this. You guys already touched on everything as two why it is moot for the Chiefs to be crying about it: penalty declined & catch was made anyway. Tasker (for what its worth from him), on the first replay of that "penalty" even stated Flowers committed the PI. Secondly if you go back and watch, Flowers has his hands in the air crying for a flag before the ball even gets to AJ. Maybe if he had continued playing the ball instead of worrying about trying to get a flag he could have made a play or prevented AJ from making the catch, thats what I saw anyway.

Texan_Bill
10-18-2010, 12:28 PM
did'nt we decline that penalty. i keep hearing how it cost them the game but aj caught the ball and we declined the penalty, right?

it could of been called offensive PI but how often is that called. it should of just been a no call. Peter King even commented on how that kept us in the game. even if it was called offensive, the way we were moving the ball we would of still went down and scored.

--- if someone wants to edit my title, they are more than welcome.

That's exactly why I was cussing Steve Tasker when I got home last night to re-watch the game. Andre still caught the ball, the Texans declined the penalty. No harm, no foul! It essentially became a "no-call".

BigBull17
10-18-2010, 12:43 PM
Yeah, that was messed up. That lady was just way out of hand.

I would still like to see a good replay of the "catch" right before the half.

i watched at home, and it was a close play. I would say incomplete, but it was close enough that it doesn't bug me either way.

BigBull17
10-18-2010, 12:44 PM
Yes, this is what i was referring to in my earlier posts on this thread.

I don't want to hear any complaining by Chiefs fans and no self-loathing from Texans fans on how we got "lucky" on that one.

There were about 6 calls/no-calls that aided the Chiefs yesterday.

And then there was Tasker on TV who was just irate about the obvious Chiefs false start (and yet he STILL refused to acknowledge that the LG did indeed flinch). Gus Johnson was like totally silent, essentially allowing Tasker to dig his own grave. Gus saw what the officials saw. He wasn't disagreeing with Tasker, but he sure wasn't joining in either.

That was sickening. It was an EASY flinch, yet we were at fault. Chiefs superfan.

dbruder44
10-18-2010, 12:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x0lJhhlB2A


here it is notice it is first and ten watch it slow they are almost to the first down marker when flowers shoves AJ (it was after 5 yards) so it could have been a illegal contact penalty too

well actually it looks like 6 yards or so

it looks like flowers is arm gaurding Andre before the alledged shove

GP
10-18-2010, 12:51 PM
That was sickening. It was an EASY flinch, yet we were at fault. Chiefs superfan.

Tasker is a piece of work. When he thinks the Texans can be beaten, he's dogging them the whole time.

When it looks like we're going to trounce our foe, he's on our bandwagon and all bragging about how good we are.

He's a real piece of work.

Texan_Bill
10-18-2010, 12:55 PM
That was sickening. It was an EASY flinch, yet we were at fault. Chiefs superfan.

That was the other thing I was cussing Tasker for. Dude, what part of flinch does that dumbass not understand?

Ole Miss Texan
10-18-2010, 12:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x0lJhhlB2A


here it is notice it is first and ten watch it slow they are almost to the first down marker when flowers shoves AJ (it was after 5 yards) so it could have been a illegal contact penalty too

well actually it looks like 6 yards or so

it looks like flowers is arm gaurding Andre before the alledged shove

After looking at that a few times, it's still really hard for me to see a lot going on.

I see the initial hand on AJ about 6 yards in that I didn't notice before. I still don't think that's enough to warrant a flag.

What gets me is when Flowers' shoulder runs into AJ but I'd be inclined to let that slide because he was turning his head around to locate the ball. If I was a ref, I wouldn't throw the flag for that either.

Lastly, it's what his right hand is doing when he makes contact with his shoulder. I can't tell from the camera angle but the ref was right in front of them. If his right hand blocks AJ's hands from coming up, even slightly, that would be enough for me to throw the yellow hanky.

All in all, I just think this is nitpicky and if we wanted to we could diagnose every pass play by both teams and find some sort of holding or P.I.

gtexan02
10-18-2010, 12:59 PM
All the video does is tell me that Flowers knew he needed to fake it in order to beat AJ.

He baits AJ into making contact, then gets a very small push, takes a few steps, throws his hands in the air in a "Mooooommmmm" type moment, and lastly tries to play defense.

A guy running at full speed who gets a real shove falls down. That looked like euro-NFL

dbruder44
10-18-2010, 01:00 PM
That was the other thing I was cussing Tasker for. Dude, what part of flinch does that dumbass not understand?

I laughed when Tasker said thats a long FG before their last play not realizing they were down 4

False Start
10-18-2010, 01:03 PM
i watched at home, and it was a close play. I would say incomplete, but it was close enough that it doesn't bug me either way.

Maybe they will show the game on NFL Replay, and I can see it there. I guess it was just the way the game was going at the time that bugged me about it, lol.

JB
10-18-2010, 01:12 PM
Maybe they will show the game on NFL Replay, and I can see it there. I guess it was just the way the game was going at the time that bugged me about it, lol.

It was really hard to see because they never showed the replay from the front side. It looked to me like his hands were down, but he bracketed the ball, did not have his hands underneath.

Stemp
10-18-2010, 01:17 PM
The missed trap call, the BS PI call, plus the Numerous uncalled holding penalties gave KC at least 14 points. If you are going to ***** about calls, make sure you remember the ones that went for you as well.

BullsOnParade
10-18-2010, 01:19 PM
I couldn't agree more with the assessment that there was a handful of calls regarding pass interference that went the Chiefs way earlier in the game.

dtran04
10-18-2010, 01:26 PM
It's funny but if Haley didn't do idiotic things like short kick to Leach twice and blow coverage or get tricky on 3rd and 2 and pass even though they were getting 7 yards a pop, they would have easily won.

Better yet, their defense completely collapsed. They went from neutralizing Peyton to letting the Texans walk up and down the field.

If you look at it from the Chiefs' perspective, their coaching staff screwed the team out of the win. Funny how it's not only Kubiak who does strange stuff.

run-david-run
10-18-2010, 02:25 PM
Flowers looked like he was doing his best dirk nowitzki impression out there.

Initiate contact, then when AJ motions back, flail your arms about and make like you just got steamrolled trying to get the attention of the ref.

Luckily, the NFL refs are smarter than the NBA ones and the right call was made. It could have gone either way, but their player initiated it and the flag was thrown for that, not the push off
I wouldn't go as far as to call them smart, it's more a case of best wide receiver in the NFL at home against a second year player. Flowers pushed AJ early, AJ nudged him late. Should have been a no-call or offensive, but we were owed a few anyway (KJ on 4th down on the first drive and another on AJ when Flowers went through his back on an incompletion).

RazorOye
10-18-2010, 02:40 PM
I think Keller had it called against him on two plays in a row yesterday, Shockey had it called on him yesterday, and then I saw it two or three other times in games yesterday. AJ clearly shoved Flowers out of the way as the ball was dropping in, one of the worst calls I have ever seen. Did it cost KC the game? At that point it very well could have, since it definitly got us where we needed to be with little time left on the clock.

were you thinking of the call on Graham in the Saints game (rather than Shockey)?

there was a call in the Saints game against Graham, TE, on a TD reception - it was less of a push than AJ's and he got flagged for it - I thought it was bogue. Personally, I think neither should have been called - but AJ is AJ and Graham is a rookie.

didn't cost the Saints the win or TB a loss, but it did take away a rookie's first TD catch which kinda sucked

Mailman
10-18-2010, 02:41 PM
I think Keller had it called against him on two plays in a row yesterday, Shockey had it called on him yesterday, and then I saw it two or three other times in games yesterday. AJ clearly shoved Flowers out of the way as the ball was dropping in, one of the worst calls I have ever seen. Did it cost KC the game? At that point it very well could have, since it definitly got us where we needed to be with little time left on the clock.

This is f'n ridiculous.

I didn't have the opportunity to watch the game live yesterday due to work, but I heard all about this so-called "WORST CALL EVAR1!111!!" and how the Texans got lucky to win from my co-workers. Funny how none of them accurately described the play at all. Namely, the fact that AJ CAUGHT THE BALL!!!

I just finished watching my dvr recording of the game. That play was not at all the controversy some are making it out to be. Yes, it was a terrible defensive pass interference call because Flowers barely touched AJ, but Flowers flailing about and whining his ass off in the aftermath of the hanky does not make it offensive pass interference, either. Flowers was acting, no doubt about it, because he knew he got beat. Andre gave him a *very* slight bump, but AJ was looking up at the ball whereas Flowers had his head turned away from the ball and toward the official. He wasn't even making a play on it. Andre Johnson didn't do anything out of the ordinary for any NFL receiver. That type of contact happens on just about every deep route but only the most egregious shoves go against the offensive player. What AJ did was entirely within the rules and the way the game is commonly officiated, but with all the hyperbole over this call you'd think AJ knocked his defender on his ass as the ball sailed over his head and fell incomplete.

Let's all say it again: THE PLAY WAS A COMPLETION AND THE TEXANS DECLINED THE PENALTY.

That bogus call didn't cost the Chiefs the game. The KC Chiefs lost because their best corner got beat by the best receiver in football.

Mailman
10-18-2010, 02:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x0lJhhlB2A


here it is notice it is first and ten watch it slow they are almost to the first down marker when flowers shoves AJ (it was after 5 yards) so it could have been a illegal contact penalty too

well actually it looks like 6 yards or so

it looks like flowers is arm gaurding Andre before the alledged shove

This is exactly correct and I believe this was what the referee threw the flag for. I paused my recording right as both players are on the KC 35yd line (ten yards before the catch was made) and it is apparent that Flowers has extended his right arm across AJ's path to prevent him from going past him upfield. That is when AJ nudges him for separation.

Mr teX
10-18-2010, 03:12 PM
From what I remember Flowers made some contact with AJ and then AJ took advantage of it to give him a little nudge with his forearm. I don't think either should have been called.

see this is what people didn't see. Both were hand fighting & when Flowers tried to turn & look for the ball, he threw out his arm or gave AJ what they call the arm bar. This is what i think the refs initially threw the flag for.

It should've been a no-call b/c that stuff happens all game, but AJ caught the ball anyway so it really didn't matter in the grand scheme of the play.

Rey
10-18-2010, 03:20 PM
I still don't think AJ pushed him.

AJ bends his arm at a 90-degree angle, and uses it more like a barrier than anything else. Sort of like you see in basketball when a defender bends his arm and keeps it still while defending a point guard.


On the radio after the game AJ admitted to giving Flowers a little shove.

He said that the Chiefs corners had been shoving them pass the 5 yard limit all game long. He said that he knew Matt was coming to him with the ball and Flowers had gave him a shove earlier in the route and he was determined to not let flowers out physical him for the ball...

eriadoc
10-18-2010, 07:50 PM
On the radio after the game AJ admitted to giving Flowers a little shove.

He said that the Chiefs corners had been shoving them pass the 5 yard limit all game long. He said that he knew Matt was coming to him with the ball and Flowers had gave him a shove earlier in the route and he was determined to not let flowers out physical him for the ball...

Pretty much exactly what I was saying. It should have been a no-call, IMO, but if you want to call AJ, then you have to call Flowers earlier in the route.