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View Full Version : Dunta's hit on Desean jackson


stingray
10-17-2010, 05:08 PM
One of the hardest hits I have seen. They both got jacked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqgyXVtihsA

ziggy29
10-17-2010, 05:13 PM
There were a lot of them today. Steelers cheap shot artist James Harrison got away with a couple helmet-to-helmet shots against the Browns today. (Well, he got away with it where the zebras are concerned; I don't think the NFL office will overlook it, though.)

mattieuk
10-17-2010, 05:14 PM
One of the hardest hits I have seen. They both got jacked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqgyXVtihsA

Urgh. That was one ugly hit.

TexCanada
10-17-2010, 05:20 PM
Is Dunta going to be penalized in some way for the hit?

stingray
10-17-2010, 05:21 PM
Is Dunta going to be penalized in some way for the hit?

You mean fined? Because they did penalized him in the game.

JB
10-17-2010, 05:21 PM
Is Dunta going to be penalized in some way for the hit?

Yeah, he led with his helmet. He will get fined.

awtysst
10-17-2010, 05:23 PM
Didn't he take himself out becuase of it?

stingray
10-17-2010, 05:24 PM
Didn't he take himself out becuase of it?

He got injured but I don't know if he returned.

ziggy29
10-17-2010, 05:24 PM
Didn't he take himself out becuase of it?
D-Rob got his bell rung, too; he also had to come out for at least a play due to injury time out.

Dutchrudder
10-17-2010, 05:41 PM
What a shitty hit. I hope he gets suspended.

mattieuk
10-17-2010, 05:45 PM
What a shitty hit. I hope he gets suspended.

Oh he will. That was damned dangerous. It's hits like that, that cause NFLers to have such a crappy quality of like when they get a bit older.

Throw the book at him.

TexCanada
10-17-2010, 05:49 PM
You mean fined? Because they did penalized him in the game.

Ya fined or suspended. I saw that they threw the flag, but it seems to me that hits exactly like that are why they have put in those new rules about the defenseless receiver. I wouldn't be surprised if they made an example out of Dunta, and set the bar high for future hits like this.

Rey
10-17-2010, 05:52 PM
Nothing wrong with that hit other than the fact that Dunta didn't wrap up.

awtysst
10-17-2010, 05:53 PM
WOW. That is a dirty play. Is this a suspendable play?

TexCanada
10-17-2010, 05:56 PM
Nothing wrong with that hit other than the fact that Dunta didn't wrap up.

It was helmet to helmet on a defenseless receiver.

Rey
10-17-2010, 05:59 PM
It was helmet to helmet on a defenseless receiver.

No, It wasn't.

Dunta didn't hit him with his shoulder in his chest...

He neither led with his helmet, nor hit Jackson in the helmet...

He might have caught him a little bit on the bottom of his face mask, but anyone who says he hit him helmet to helmet either can't see, or they are blind.

Rey
10-17-2010, 06:02 PM
LOL @ people saying it was a dirty play...

Nothing dirty about it...

It was a violent collision, but completely within the rules...

He broke on the ball and reciever and he arrived almost simultaneously as the ball arrived...He actually led with his shoulder pads, but he cannot help it if there was some incedental contact with the bottom portion Deseasns facemask...

There was no leading with the helmet from Dunta's end...Look at the clip and you can clearly see he put his shoulder pads in his chest..

JB
10-17-2010, 06:11 PM
No, It wasn't.

Dunta didn't hit him with his shoulder in his chest...

He neither led with his helmet, nor hit Jackson in the helmet...

He might have caught him a little bit on the bottom of his face mask, but anyone who says he hit him helmet to helmet either can't see, or they are blind.

Look at the .47 mark. Dunta clearly led with his helmet, and if you can't see that you are blind.

Rey
10-17-2010, 06:15 PM
Look at the .47 mark. Dunta clearly led with his helmet, and if you can't see that you are blind.

I've looked at the whole thing about three times, plus I played it back on TV a few times.

Sure there is some contact with his helmet, but he did not LEAD with his helmet...

Not sure what you're looking at, but you are wrong. He led with his shoulder pads.

There is no way he can make a tackle and hit someone with his shoulder pads without lowering his head. He could have put his face mask into the receiver and kept his head up, but then he would have actually been leading with his helmet.

Not sure how many of you guys have actually played football, or when the last time you played was, but to say he lead with his helmet after looking at those shots is just asinine.

His helmet hit the outside shoulder of the receiver...

(1) that isn't helmet to helmet

(2) The bulk of his hit was with the top of the shoulder pads to Jackson's chest

Wolf
10-17-2010, 06:15 PM
I don't know what you do about "defenseless" receiver


that was just a bang bang play


If D-Rob did anything wrong it was not get his head up

mattieuk
10-17-2010, 06:20 PM
LOL @ people saying it was a dirty play...

Nothing dirty about it...

It was a violent collision, but completely within the rules...

He broke on the ball and reciever and he arrived almost simultaneously as the ball arrived...He actually led with his shoulder pads, but he cannot help it if there was some incedental contact with the bottom portion Deseasns facemask...

There was no leading with the helmet from Dunta's end...Look at the clip and you can clearly see he put his shoulder pads in his chest..

Thats bull man. He can help it if there was incidental contact - he tackles him around the torso.

He drops his head, leading with both his head and shoulder at the same time, with his head hitting the shoulders, as well at hitting the facemask with the shoulder.

Looking at it ten times now, I think there is helmet to helmet contact during the hit, the Eagles player is most definitely defenseless, and D-Rob makes every attempt to make a dangerous his, rather than trying to tackle him to the floor, rather than laying him out.

Rey
10-17-2010, 06:23 PM
I don't know what you do about "defenseless" receiver


that was just a bang bang play


If D-Rob did anything wrong it was not get his head up

Pretty much my thoughts, but the only things about getting his head up is how was he supposed to make that tackle?

From little league you are taught to hit with the two screws in the front of your helmet...

That is supposed to help you keep your head up and not use your helmet as a spear.

Dunta clearly had his head down in the clips, but he didn't go helmet to helmet and the top of his helmet went mostly into the receivers shoulder. Jackson went down due to the massive hit into his chest by Dunta's pads.

Goatcheese
10-17-2010, 06:23 PM
It was neither dirty nor a hit on a defenseless receiver. Jackson caught the ball and got his foot down, then turned and looked right at the corner.

AJ takes that hit 3 or 4 times every game and I can't remember one single flag being tossed over it.

They are just getting stupid with these rules. Put flags on them already.

mattieuk
10-17-2010, 06:29 PM
Pretty much my thoughts, but the only things about getting his head up is how was he supposed to make that tackle?

From little league you are taught to hit with the two screws in the front of your helmet...

That is supposed to help you keep your head up and not use your helmet as a spear.

Dunta clearly had his head down in the clips, but he didn't go helmet to helmet and the top of his helmet went mostly into the receivers shoulder. Jackson went down due to the massive hit into his chest by Dunta's pads.

I agree, that his head went mostly into the shoulder, but the impact from that type of hit is going to propel yourself upwards. As soon as the contact is made, D-Rob's body lifts, and hits the helmet of Jackson, during the process of the hit.

It was neither dirty nor a hit on a defenseless receiver. Jackson caught the ball and got his foot down, then turned and looked right at the corner.

Sorry man, but having one foot down, at high speed does not made you a 'defended player'. Going off the ESPN report on the rule changes:

In years past, Anderson said, defensive players were allowed to hit receivers in the head once the receiver touched both feet on the ground. Now, officials will give a receiver an extra split-second to "basically get into a position where he can defend himself," Anderson said.

He didn't have the two feet on the ground that he needed BEFORE the rule changes. Definitely under the new rules he was defenseless. He had no chance to defend himself there at all.

Rey
10-17-2010, 06:33 PM
Thats bull man. He can help it if there was incidental contact - he tackles him around the torso.

He drops his head, leading with both his head and shoulder at the same time, with his head hitting the shoulders, as well at hitting the facemask with the shoulder.

Looking at it ten times now, I think there is helmet to helmet contact during the hit, the Eagles player is most definitely defenseless, and D-Rob makes every attempt to make a dangerous his, rather than trying to tackle him to the floor, rather than laying him out.

Yes...He tried to knock the shit out of him rather than tackle tackle him down do the ground....

So what....

And as for your assertion that he can try to hit him in the torso, that is bull...You'd rather take a hit like that in your unprotected stomach area vs an area where you have padding...

Pollard hits the same exact way that Dunta does. Look at the 2nd hit on Gradkowski by Pollard. Only difference is that Gradkowski was falling away from Pollard vs. Jackson running full speed into Dunta...If I'm not mistaken, both players ended up walking off the field under there own power anyways...


People are going to get hit hard...It's football...

There are occasionally going to be violent collisions and there will occasionally be times when players hit each other in the helmet...

Doesn't mean that it was intentional...It's a fast game played by some of the fastest ans strongest humans on the planet...

They may fine Dunta for the hit, but I honestly don't think they will...There was very little helmet to helmet and the bulk of the hit came from Dunta putting his shoulder pads in the receivers chest..

mattieuk
10-17-2010, 06:45 PM
Yes...He tried to knock the shit out of him rather than tackle tackle him down do the ground....

So what....

And as for your assertion that he can try to hit him in the torso, that is bull...Even if he hits him in the stomach there Jackson would still be hurt...

Pollard hits the same exact way that Dunta does. Look at the 2nd hit on Gradkowski by Pollard. Only difference is that Gradkowski was falling away from Pollard vs. Jackson running full speed into Dunta.

Not sure what you wanted him to do there.

People are going to get hit hard...It's football...

There are occasionally going to be violent collisions and there will occasionally be times when players hit each other in the helmet...

Doesn't mean that it was intentional...It's a fast game played by some of the fastest ans strongest humans on the planet...

They may fine Dunta for the hit, but I honestly don't think they will...There was very little helmet to helmet and the bulk of the hit came from Dunta putting his shoulder pads in the receivers chest..

I get where you are coming from, and of course there will be violent collisions, I just want them to occur in a situation where players are in a position to see what is coming, and have every chance to minimize their injury. In this case I think Robinson made the decision to go for a borderline legal hit, in a manner which was going to be extremely dangerous for the receiving player (and himself). The two main issues I have with the play is Robinson's ducking down of his head, and the defenselessness of Jackson. That play was just never going to end without someone getting injured as soon as Robinson's head went down, and he started to push himself into that hit.

But hey, footballs all about opinions.

For the record, I do think the NFL needs to clear up the rules, so people know exactly what type of hits can and cannot be leveled, as an educated football crowd in this thread has deeply differing opinions.

I just hope both the guys involved are ok.

Rey
10-17-2010, 07:03 PM
I get where you are coming from, and of course there will be violent collisions, I just want them to occur in a situation where players are in a position to see what is coming, and have every chance to minimize their injury. In this case I think Robinson made the decision to go for a borderline legal hit, in a manner which was going to be extremely dangerous for the receiving player (and himself). The two main issues I have with the play is Robinson's ducking down of his head, and the defenselessness of Jackson. That play was just never going to end without someone getting injured as soon as Robinson's head went down, and he started to push himself into that hit.

But hey, footballs all about opinions.

For the record, I do think the NFL needs to clear up the rules, so people know exactly what type of hits can and cannot be leveled, as an educated football crowd in this thread has deeply differing opinions.

I just hope both the guys involved are ok.


That's really the main part.

As much as I like to see big hits, I don't wish injury on the players.

Robinson should have had his head up, but again, I think that was moreso the product of him leading with his shoulder pads.

It's hard to make a good hit with your chest (which is what Robinson would have had to do if he were to compeltely have his head up).


But lets reverse this for a second.

Offensive players lower their heads on defenders all the time. Earl Campbell has a famous clip where he puts the whole top of hi helmet into a defenders chest and really does some damage to him.

That defender would probably have been better served to get low and not expose his chest like that.

Lowering your head to make a hit is natural. Everyone does it. You are taught from little league to put the screws of your helmet into the defenders chest.

If a defender comes in with his chest exposed and his head completely up right, he then becomes the prey instead of the hunter.

Sure they can stop going for knock out blows and just try to wrestle guys to the ground, but then it wouldn't be football and they'd really be able to lose the pads all together.

Goatcheese
10-17-2010, 07:06 PM
Nearly identical hit right now from the Vikings corner on Roy Williams with no flag.

TimeKiller
10-17-2010, 07:11 PM
That was most definitely hit on defenseless receiver but nothing suspendable IMO. I mean he definitely could've been a step behind that and STILL dealt a big hit but he popped him way too hard way too early. Hell of a hit though.

toronto
10-17-2010, 08:20 PM
Only thing I'll say is that was the nastiest hit of the season thus far. Nothing like a fresh reminder why I could never ever play the game. I'd be dead.

fiasco west
10-17-2010, 08:23 PM
Man, Dunta really brings it. Seems like every time he has one of these big hits he ends up hurting himself just as much as he hurts the other guy though...

It's hard to say whether the hit should cause a suspension though. He did lead with his helmet...at the same time that's what you want your players to do. If the WR is going to catch the ball, do whatever you can to knock the ball loose for a incompletion.

You don't want to set a standard that WRs have to be protected also...but then at the same time Desean was defenseless.

I hope both guys are alright though.

Scooter
10-17-2010, 08:41 PM
i hate the penalty call, that hit is how football's meant to be played. if anything the flag should've been on the quarterback with the designation "personal foul #4 offense, 15 yards, leaving his receiver unprotected".

NitroGSXR
10-17-2010, 08:52 PM
Man. I really miss Dunta Robinson. Our defense died when he left.

Oh well.

Hervoyel
10-17-2010, 09:07 PM
See, that's what Dunta is all about. He's on YouTube and he'll be on ESPN later and everybody will be talking about how Dunta Robinson jacked up DeSean Jackson to help his team go on to win..... no, wait a second. His team didn't win did they? No they didn't. They went on to get carved up by Kevin Kolb and the Eagles. The Texans let Dunta go for a reason, he ain't worth what he thinks he is. He's a highlight reel hitter who makes no difference to the outcome of the game.

ATXtexanfan
10-17-2010, 09:13 PM
according to the rules he was defenseless but i dont see what dunta could have done. not at all dirty just the perfect situation to blow someone the f++k up. jacksons not the biggest dude either

gtexan02
10-17-2010, 09:15 PM
See, that's what Dunta is all about. He's on YouTube and he'll be on ESPN later and everybody will be talking about how Dunta Robinson jacked up DeSean Jackson to help his team go on to win..... no, wait a second. His team didn't win did they? No they didn't. They went on to get carved up by Kevin Kolb and the Eagles. The Texans let Dunta go for a reason, he ain't worth what he thinks he is. He's a highlight reel hitter who makes no difference to the outcome of the game.

Exactly. Dunta's most important play of the game resulted in a 1st down and 15 yards. Had he played more intelligently OR been in position to break up the pass rather than jack a guy up, it would have been fourth down. Instead the Eagles got to keep going.

Dunta also took himself, their most expensive defense player, out of the game.

ATL gave up almost 500 yards of offense today.

Overated

TheIronDuke
10-17-2010, 09:22 PM
Are you serious that Dunta is the highest-paid player on the Falcons defense?

gtexan02
10-17-2010, 09:25 PM
Are you serious that Dunta is the highest-paid player on the Falcons defense?

Just a guess. He got $26 million guaranteed in a 6 year, 60 million dollar deal. Thats pretty good $$$$

Based on last years salaries, Duntas $10 mill would have ranked 2nd on the entire team, behind only R White

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/atlanta-falcons/salary/67038

awtysst
10-17-2010, 09:29 PM
A good reason why, if I had a son, I wouldn't let him play football. There are plenty of great sports (individual or team) that have a far less concussions and head injuries associated with it.

TheIronDuke
10-17-2010, 09:29 PM
Just a guess. He got $26 million guaranteed in a 6 year, 60 million dollar deal. Thats pretty good $$$$

Based on last years salaries, Duntas $10 mill would have ranked 2nd on the entire team, behind only R White

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/atlanta-falcons/salary/67038

Then I'm more than happy not to have him! WAY over-priced.

playa465
10-18-2010, 12:15 AM
hit looks pretty good, its unfortunate but its part of the game...the rules describe defenseless receivers but this looks to be perfect timing...do we now have to let a receiver catch the ball and make a football move before he can be tackled?

Goldensilence
10-18-2010, 12:31 AM
Dunta's good for a highlight hit once...maybe twice a game.

In other very related news Maclin, Jackson, and Kolb tore up the secondary of Atlanta.

gtexan02
10-18-2010, 11:35 AM
Its ridiculous to cheer hits like these. This is what results in the long term brain damage that NFL players suffer

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b61df2/article/jackson-suffers-severe-concussion-in-collision-with-robinson?module=HP_headlines

NFL Network and FOX Sports' Jay Glazer reports Jackson has a "severe concussion" and suffered memory loss from the hit.

Last year, a concussion caused Jackson to miss one game. This year, Jackson could be out of action even longer.

His status moving forward isn't known. He won't be able to play until he's cleared by a team doctor and an independent neurological consultant.

Both players stayed on the turf for several minutes before being helped from the field. Jackson dropped a pass when hit by Robinson, who led with his head and hit the receiver in the helmet. Robinson was flagged for hitting a defenseless receiver.

Dread-Head
10-18-2010, 11:36 AM
There were a lot of them today. Steelers cheap shot artist James Harrison got away with a couple helmet-to-helmet shots against the Browns today. (Well, he got away with it where the zebras are concerned; I don't think the NFL office will overlook it, though.)

I saw that one. It looked kinda incidental. Were I a zebra I would have talked to the other officials on that one.

Dread-Head
10-18-2010, 11:39 AM
No, It wasn't.

Dunta didn't hit him with his shoulder in his chest...

He neither led with his helmet, nor hit Jackson in the helmet...

He might have caught him a little bit on the bottom of his face mask, but anyone who says he hit him helmet to helmet either can't see, or they are blind.

I saw that one a couple of times. It wasn't helmet to helmet, homie just got his bell rung. That my friend is just a hell of a hit.

Dread-Head
10-18-2010, 11:43 AM
Defenseless receiver my left @ss. He caught it and was drilled the second he did. He needs to either accept the fact that he's playing a man's game or put on a formal gown and attend a summer cotillion with the other ladies.

gtexan02
10-18-2010, 11:44 AM
Defenseless receiver my left @ss. He caught it and was drilled the second he did. He needs to either accept the fact that he's playing a man's game or put on a formal gown and attend a summer cotillion with the other ladies.

If he had been hit legally, I completely agree. Drob knows how to hit. He went at Deseans head. Watch the replay they show on tv, rather than this one. Jacksons head gets snapped back something vicious.

Helmet to helmet should be an automatic 2 game suspension. I think DRob was trying to knock jackson out of the game

watch this one: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b61df2/article/jackson-suffers-severe-concussion-in-collision-with-robinson?module=HP_headlines

The slow motion one, on the 2nd or 3rd angle, you can claerly see DRob lower his head and hit helmt to the bottom of Jacksons helmet. That is dirty 100 times out of 100

Goatcheese
10-18-2010, 11:53 AM
If he had been hit legally, I completely agree. Drob knows how to hit. He went at Deseans head. Watch the replay they show on tv, rather than this one. Jacksons head gets snapped back something vicious.

Helmet to helmet should be an automatic 2 game suspension. I think DRob was trying to knock jackson out of the game

watch this one: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b61df2/article/jackson-suffers-severe-concussion-in-collision-with-robinson?module=HP_headlines

The slow motion one, on the 2nd or 3rd angle, you can claerly see DRob lower his head and hit helmt to the bottom of Jacksons helmet. That is dirty 100 times out of 100

Go to 0:36 at the moment of contact. Robinson's head hit him directly in the shoulder and then Jackson's head snaps forward and collides with Robinson's shoulder.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/RobinsonJackson.jpg

Dread-Head
10-18-2010, 11:55 AM
If he had been hit legally, I completely agree. Drob knows how to hit. He went at Deseans head. Watch the replay they show on tv, rather than this one. Jacksons head gets snapped back something vicious.

Helmet to helmet should be an automatic 2 game suspension. I think DRob was trying to knock jackson out of the game

watch this one: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b61df2/article/jackson-suffers-severe-concussion-in-collision-with-robinson?module=HP_headlines

The slow motion one, on the 2nd or 3rd angle, you can claerly see DRob lower his head and hit helmt to the bottom of Jacksons helmet. That is dirty 100 times out of 100


I'll have to watch it again. It looked like he hit him in the pads and his pads hit his face mask to me. I could be wrong, but that's what it looked like.

Dread-Head
10-18-2010, 11:56 AM
Go to 0:36 at the moment of contact. Robinson's head hit him directly in the shoulder and then Jackson's head snaps forward and collides with Robinson's shoulder.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/RobinsonJackson.jpg

Perfectly legal.

infantrycak
10-18-2010, 12:14 PM
Perfectly legal.

Nah. The reverse angle shows Dunta's helmet hitting Jackson's face mask. He's going to get fined.

JB
10-18-2010, 12:22 PM
Nah. The reverse angle shows Dunta's helmet hitting Jackson's face mask. He's going to get fined.

Exactly! And you can see Dunta's dip down and then take a hard shot that sent him out of the game.

gtexan02
10-18-2010, 12:27 PM
Nah. The reverse angle shows Dunta's helmet hitting Jackson's face mask. He's going to get fined.

I agree with Cak on this one. The reverse angle looks much worse.

In this shot, right after Jackson catches the balll, you can see Dunta, head up, looking for Jackson (hes on the right)

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5229/helmet3r.jpg

In this shot, Dunta lowers his head a full step before the collision, clearly intending to lead with his helmet. Dunta is a veteran guy. He went helmet first. It was blatant. You can see the way he positions his body he intends to spear him

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2239/helmet2h.jpg

In the final shot, you can see Duntas helmet connect with Jacksons helmet. The collision of helmet to helmet is so violent that it blurs the eagle logo on Jacksons helmet as it snaps around.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4746/helmet1.jpg

Duntas gonna get fined. I wouldnt be surprised to see him suspended

silvrhand
10-18-2010, 01:19 PM
Gtexan, great shot of the bad hit..

I'm sorry if you think Dunta was legally hitting this guy you need to have your eyes checked. He lowered his head and used the momentem of his body to deliver the hit with his head down, like a rocket. This is just unacceptable as Pollard shoving that guy out of bounds into the kicking net..

Dunta should receive at least 1 game suspension.. it's the only way people will stop doing that. He could have easily not lowered his head.

JB
10-18-2010, 01:24 PM
Gtexan, great shot of the bad hit..

I'm sorry if you think Dunta was legally hitting this guy you need to have your eyes checked. He lowered his head and used the momentem of his body to deliver the hit with his head down, like a rocket. This is just unacceptable as Pollard shoving that guy out of bounds into the kicking net..

Dunta should receive at least 1 game suspension.. it's the only way people will stop doing that. He could have easily not lowered his head.

Exactly! I don't think anyone would have a problem with the hit if DR had kept his head up and looked at what he was hitting.

DR probably would not have been injured if he did either.

Rey
10-18-2010, 02:30 PM
I don't think he'll be fined.

Perfectly legal hit.

People saying he should not have lowered his head are wrong. That is how you tackle and hit...You lean your body in, and lower your head a little bit....Basic football 101...You are taught to put your helmet on defenders...You do not tackle with the front of your face mask, but rather at a tilted angle...

You are not supposed to use the top of your head like a spear but I don't think Dunta did that here....

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4746/helmet1.jpg


I think Dunta was trying to give the receiver a shoulder. Try to hit the corner of a wall or any object with the top of your shoulder as if you had shoulder pads on and see if your head dips down a bit.

You do not stand straight up and tackle people. That will get YOU killed.

gtexan02
10-18-2010, 02:51 PM
I don't think he'll be fined.

Perfectly legal hit.


...

You are not supposed to use the top of your head like a spear but I don't think Dunta did that here....

In that exact image you can see the top of Duntas helmet connecting with the Jackson.

Rey
10-18-2010, 02:55 PM
In that exact image you can see the top of Duntas helmet connecting with the Jackson.

Looks like mostly the side of his head to me. Looks like he was trying to hit Jackson with his shoulder and there was some contact made with Jackson shoulder pad and Dunta's helmet...I don't think Jackson's concussion was due to any direct contact..

He is not using his helmet as a spear there.

Dunta would have to be looking at the ground and put the whole top of his helmet into the receiver...That's dangerous...That can cause sever neck and spinal injuries..

Concussions are part of the game. It's an unfortunate part of the game, but guys are going to get them playing football.

If you want to get rid of the whole physical aspect of the game, just make it touch football...But then some guy would probably get shoved too hard and scrape his knee and we'd just have to go to flags from there...

As a defender, if you don't get low and put your helmet on the ball carrier, they will probably do it to you...Look at the Earl Campbell hit on that Rams player...Earl put his helmet into the defenders chest and ran him smooth over...Running backs lower their heads all the time...

O-linemen put their helmets into the knees of defenders...Defenders are taught to put their helmet onto the ball carriers...That's just football...

Jim Rome was talking about this today, and I actually agree with him 100%...Dunta's hit was not dirty and he should not be fined...

silvrhand
10-18-2010, 03:03 PM
Looks like mostly the side of his head to me.

He is not using his helmet as a spear there.



Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to ride Dunta's nuts.. You must like Vince Young too right?

NitroGSXR
10-18-2010, 03:08 PM
Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to ride Dunta's nuts.. You must like Vince Young too right?

:facepalm:

Come on now... Rey didn't deserve that.

Texecutioner
10-18-2010, 03:12 PM
Don't really see how anyone could defend that hit. Helmet to helmet hits like those with these types of explosive athletes are practically like getting hit by a car or something. That hit put both guys out of the game and concussions are a big deal.

Dunta should be fined and suspended for sure.

silvrhand
10-18-2010, 03:14 PM
:facepalm:

Come on now... Rey didn't deserve that.

*GRIN* ok I'm not sure which is the insult you are complaining about though.. Nothing like a good like internet battle to start Monday.
:pirate:

Goatcheese
10-18-2010, 03:22 PM
In this shot, Dunta lowers his head a full step before the collision, clearly intending to lead with his helmet. Dunta is a veteran guy. He went helmet first. It was blatant. You can see the way he positions his body he intends to spear him

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2239/helmet2h.jpg

That's how you're taught to tackle. A spear is when you put the top of your helmet into the opponents sternum. Robinson's head is turned to the side and hits Jackson high in the shoulder.

In the final shot, you can see Duntas helmet connect with Jacksons helmet. The collision of helmet to helmet is so violent that it blurs the eagle logo on Jacksons helmet as it snaps around.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4746/helmet1.jpg

Jackson's helmet comes down after the initial contact and hits Robinson's. Your picture shows that.

This is the actual moment of contact. Jackson's head is still straight up and down with no contact what so ever with Robinson.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/RobinsonJackson2.png

and the reverse

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/RobinsonJackson.jpg


Duntas gonna get fined. I wouldnt be surprised to see him suspended

Maybe, but the league has fined people for all kinds of bogus crap.

Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to ride Dunta's nuts.. You must like Vince Young too right?

Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to hate Dunta.. You must like Vince Young too right?

Rey
10-18-2010, 03:30 PM
That's how you're taught to tackle. A spear is when you put the top of your helmet into the opponents sternum. Robinson's head is turned to the side and hits Jackson high in the shoulder.

Yep. Exactly.


Jackson's helmet comes down after the initial contact and hits Robinson's. Your picture shows that.

This is the actual moment of contact. Jackson's head is still straight up and down with no contact what so ever with Robinson.

That's what I thought as well. He got hit, his head snapped forward, then backwards...

silvrhand
10-18-2010, 03:36 PM
That's how you're taught to tackle. A spear is when you put the top of your helmet into the opponents sternum. Robinson's head is turned to the side and hits Jackson high in the shoulder.


Goat, I'm not sure where you get your definition of spearing is "leading" with the crown of your helmet, it doesn't matter where you hit them.


Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to hate Dunta.. You must like Vince Young too right?


I completely thought Rey was trolling, and honestly you guys really need to lookup spearing cause in this case you are wrong. He lead with the crown of his helmet which is the definition of spearing. I've played a lot of football and I've never been taught to tackle like he is here.

Rey
10-18-2010, 03:59 PM
I completely thought Rey was trolling, and honestly you guys really need to lookup spearing cause in this case you are wrong. He lead with the crown of his helmet which is the definition of spearing. I've played a lot of football and I've never been taught to tackle like he is here.


He didn't lead with the crown of his helmet...

But even if he did, that would be more detrimental to his own health vs. the health of the receiver..

I understand you guys wanting to keep Dunta safe, but he lived.

In an NFL filled with Lions, Bengals and Bears, the most endangered species might be the defensive back.

It's the most dangerous spot on the field. In 2000 through 2003, NFL data showed that the highest injury rates belong to cornerbacks and safeties. Nearly seven of 10 DBs are hurt every year, according to the NFL's weekly injury reports.

For those who get hurt, half will suffer another, unrelated injury before the season ends.

They also sustain the highest rates of the injuries most likely to be catastrophic; 102 defensive backs have suffered brain concussions or neck and spinal injuries during the past four years.

"With as many hits as we take, as much pain as we have after the game, it kind of scares you a little bit, you know?" said Eric Brown, a seven-year safety for the Houston Texans.

Players, managers and NFL executives all point to two factors that make defensive backs so vulnerable: their size and their job description.

Cornerbacks or safeties, who must be fast to hang with receivers, are predators watching their prey outgrow them.

Since 1943, the average NFL player has super-sized himself 25 percent in body mass. But the DB is barely bigger than his World War II counterpart, who averaged 6 feet and 187 pounds. Today, same height, with a mere 8 pounds of extra weight.

And now the DB faces a trend in the NFL for taller, thicker and faster wide receivers such as the Steelers' Plaxico Burress (6-5, 225) and the Minnesota Vikings' Randy Moss (6-4, 210).

"You're trying to tackle a man who weighs, what, 230? 240? Most of the time, we're hitting tight ends, guys weighing 250, 260. And they tell us we have to hit these guys the same way? We're giving up 40, 50 pounds?" Brown said.

To compensate for his lack of body mass, a DB generates great speed before hitting a rusher or wideout. The collisions often come in midair.

"You don't have time to put yourself in the position for the perfect tackle," said Oakland Raiders safety David Terrell. "Pretty much, you're thinking, 'I've got to get this guy down.' Or hit him as hard as you can. I mean, it's a violent sport and most guys don't think about that when they tackle. They just throw their bodies around."

Players like Terrell learn from youth leagues on to keep their "neck up" when tackling. Lowering their heads runs the risk of fracturing spine and neck bones. Broken vertebrae have given the league two paralysis cases over the past 30 years, Mike Utley and Daryl Stingley.

At the same time, however, DBs are expected to go for the ball and force turnovers. They try to create fumbles by turning their helmets, necks and trunks into a human bottle openers, prying the pigskin loose.

Their helmets often act like the tip of a spear, a 4-pound bludgeon pinning the ball against the receiver's trunk and breaking his ribs.

In fact, wideouts suffer the most rib trauma in the league -- 35 over the last four years, according to NFL injury reports. Not surprisingly, DBs suffer a third more head, neck and spine injuries than their fellow players -- and are 26 percent more likely to sustain a concussion -- but report no fractured ribs.

Medical experts point to those anomalies and worry DBs are taking too many risks with head-first contact. In March, the National Athletic Trainers Association asked the NFL to better enforce rules outlawing head-down contact, or "spearing."

Spearing is a unique rule in football because, properly enforced, it's the only penalty designed to protect the player committing the foul. In any given game, 40 or more hits might meet the NFL's definition of spearing because of now routine head-down contact, according to the athletic trainers' studies of game film.

"That's what we're trying to fight, this idea that somehow head-down contact has been ingrained as part of the game, that it's part of football, and that nobody can do anything about it, and when it does happen, it's a 'freak accident' that wasn't preventable," said Jonathan Heck, athletic training coordinator at Richard Stockton College in New Jersey and a co-author of the trainers' report.

The problem for DBs is that game films say they're four times more likely to lead with their heads than the players they're hitting, so they will accrue the most penalties and fines.

"Pretty soon, I don't even think they're going to keep safeties around," said Brown, the Houston player. "I think they're going to get rid of us. It's to the point where they don't even need us there anymore."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/specialnfl/s_291035.html

I think it's mostly because it was Dunta and some people are still butt hurt over his last few years here. But this is how DB's hit receivers. The lead with their helmets...That's how your are taught...You are not supposed to hit with the crown of your helmet, but Dunta didn't do that here...

Anyways, you guys are just all over the place...Leading with your helmet down would have less to do with Jackson's health than it would Dunta's...

Remind me...Who's caught up in a love triangle with Dunta?

Goatcheese
10-18-2010, 04:15 PM
We were taught to tackle by lining our head up with the center of their chest, then as we made the hit turn our head to either side and wrap up. The only thing Robinson did wrong was fail to wrap up.

The players were injured because almost 400 lbs collided at 40+ MPH and came to an almost instantaneous stop, not because of where or how they collided.

infantrycak
10-18-2010, 04:26 PM
He didn't lead with the crown of his helmet...

Yeah he did.

I think it's mostly because it was Dunta and some people are still butt hurt over his last few years here. But this is how DB's hit receivers. The lead with their helmets...That's how your are taught...

Bull but if you are going to go into some kind of that's what they teach defense it doesn't fly because he is ignoring fundamental tackling. He ducks his right shoulder and doesn't even attempt to wrap with his right arm. The crown of his helmet hits 50% face mask and 50% pads at impact.

This has nothing particularly to do with Dunta. He is just happens to be one of three players in significant jeopardy for fines or suspensions along with Harrison and Merriweather because of helmet to helmet hits this weekend.

Rey
10-18-2010, 04:29 PM
This has nothing particularly to do with Dunta. He is just happens to be one of three players in significant jeopardy for fines or suspensions along with Harrison and Merriweather because of helmet to helmet hits this weekend.

Almost everyone I've heard today says that Dunta's hit was legal.

They classify the other two hits differently, So no...I completely disagree with you here....Not even sure how you can even put the hits in the same category...

And you are also wrong saying he led with the crown of his helmet...He didn't...

If he is punished (which he shouldn't be), I don't think it will be as severe as the others...Many folks have said that this was a perfectly legal hit..I'd agree...

The only reason I jokingly mentioned this having something to do with Dunta specifically was because of a post on the last page...I could care less about how people feel about him...

JB
10-18-2010, 04:30 PM
We were taught to tackle by lining our head up with the center of their chest, then as we made the hit turn our head to either side and wrap up. The only thing Robinson did wrong was fail to wrap up.

The players were injured because almost 400 lbs collided at 40+ MPH and came to an almost instantaneous stop, not because of where or how they collided.

I have watched a number of times, and I have yet to see any angle where DR turned his head to the side.

Rey
10-18-2010, 04:32 PM
I have watched a number of times, and I have yet to see any angle where DR turned his head to the side.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4746/helmet1.jpg

You see that white part on the helmet...That is the front of his helemt...Hence his head not spearing him...hence his head turning to the side...

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/RobinsonJackson.jpg

Notice the white on the front of his teammates helmet at the top...You see him in the background?

You don't see that if Dunta's head hits him straight on.....

He did not spear him...The side of his helmet hit Jackson's shoulder pads....Either way, spearing him would have put Dunta in jeopardy more than the receiver...

Double Barrel
10-18-2010, 04:40 PM
This hit would have been a highlight on the old "Jacked Up!" segment ESPN did just a couple of years ago.

Safety is becoming so paramount in the NFL that a lot of the fundamental techniques taught in the past are eventually going to be outlawed, for better or for worse.

I can see both sides of this discussion, but I tend to lean toward the 'DR was leading with his helmet' side. And this is nothing against DR, because I wish he was still in a Texans uni right now. He certainly wouldn't make our crappy defense any worse.

Rey
10-18-2010, 05:12 PM
What the heck are you talking about? The white below Dunta's helmet is Jackson's jersey. It obviously is not the much smaller plastic strip on the front of the helmet.

LOL....ok....

Now I'm convinced some of you guys eyes are deceiving you...

There is no way that white below his helmet is Jackson's Jersey...If you look at the picture where Dunta's teammate is in the frame you can see that they have a decent sized white strip right where the two screws would be in the front of the helmet...

What are you talking about saying it's Jackson's jersey? Seriously?

http://i51.tinypic.com/2152jn.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/r29cic.jpg

infantrycak
10-18-2010, 05:15 PM
LOL....ok....

Now I'm convinced some of you guys eyes are deceiving you...

LOL all you want. The angle is irrelevant. He could have come flying in upside down. It was helmet to helmet. The folks whose eyes need checked are those claiming Dunta's helmet didn't hit Jackson's and Jackson's head just came forward onto Dunta's.

Rey
10-18-2010, 05:25 PM
LOL all you want. The angle is irrelevant. He could have come flying in upside down. It was helmet to helmet. The folks whose eyes need checked are those claiming Dunta's helmet didn't hit Jackson's and Jackson's head just came forward onto Dunta's.

I never said that his helmet didn't hit Jackson's...

In fact earlier in the thread I said that Dunta's helmet hit Jackson's facemask, but that it looked like it was part of the hit rather than Dunta aiming for his helmet...

The majority of the hit was was Dunta's shoulder pad going into the receivers chest...

Heck, I never even denied that he led with his helmet...I did say that he didn't lead with the crown of his helmet though...

And the angle is completely relevant to the post I quoted and mentioned that in...just go back and read...

Texan_Bill
10-18-2010, 05:28 PM
Either way Dunta is a dumbass. He's lucky he didn't break his own freakin neck. Anywho, deserving of a fine? Yes, the max. Worthy of suspension? No!
Why? I don't think it was Dunta's intention to injure. I beleive that he really was trying to deliver a big hit - but not injure...

That said, he's still an asshat and I'm still glad he's GONE!!!

infantrycak
10-18-2010, 05:35 PM
Anywho, deserving of a fine? Yes, the max. Worthy of suspension? No!
Why? I don't think it was Dunta's intention to injure. I beleive that he really was trying to deliver a big hit - but not injure...

That's what I think as well. Dunta was trying to dish out a big hit and came up too much out of his coil so that the helmets contacted. I think Meriweather is going to get the biggest punishment as he left his feet to make a helmet to helmet hit on a player already tackled and just waiting to hit the ground. One of Harrison's hits looked unintentional but the other will probably draw punishment.