PDA

View Full Version : The defense blows


4x4tx
10-17-2010, 03:08 PM
this is hard to watch....sickening

The Cush
10-17-2010, 03:10 PM
We're already the worst pass defense in the league and now we're adding the worst tackling team on top of that

4x4tx
10-17-2010, 03:11 PM
starting to look more and more like coaching to me.....some heads need to roll

eriadoc
10-17-2010, 03:12 PM
We've been harping on the lack of a pass rush for just about the entire existence of the team. We've pointed out how the secondary sucks since AG left, really. Many of us have said forever that we need a big, space-eating DT in the middle instead of a zero in Ok0ye. Fans have been calling for an impact safety to be drafted forever.

The defense is what it's been for a while. People just choose to ignore the obvious because of a few bright spots.

eriadoc
10-17-2010, 03:15 PM
To add to my earlier thought - what Day One (first 3 rounds, really) secondary players have the Texans drafted since Kubiak got here? Molden in the 3rd round and Jackson this year. No safeties.

As for DT, the Ok0ye pick hurts, and the Earl Mitchell pick didn't do anything to remedy that pick.

Wolf
10-17-2010, 03:19 PM
To add to my earlier thought - what Day One (first 3 rounds, really) secondary players have the Texans drafted since Kubiak got here? Molden in the 3rd round and Jackson this year. No safeties.

As for DT, the Ok0ye pick hurts, and the Earl Mitchell pick didn't do anything to remedy that pick.

I agree with that but also this team has invested a lot along the front 7 and we still can't get to the QB and seem to have to sneak the safeties up to try to get pressure

I am out of ideas ...

Corrosion
10-17-2010, 03:20 PM
That defense is sickening to watch. They couldnt stop a highschool team .... ugh :rake:

eriadoc
10-17-2010, 03:21 PM
I agree with that but also this team has invested a lot along the front 7 and we still can't get to the QB and seem to have to sneak the safeties up to try to get pressure

I am out of ideas ...

That's because of the DT play. You have to be able to collapse the interior of the pocket from time to time. Texans never do.

Texecutioner
10-17-2010, 03:33 PM
People can act like Mario Williams is such a maniac all they want, but Mario is exactly what he was described as when we drafted him as a "sometimes" type of player. He has monsterish games at times, but then hardly does a thing in other games when this team desperately needs a pass rush. That's exactly how he was described coming out of college as a guy that takes plays off, and he hasn't been any different as a pro. He's still a very good DE, but he's vastly overrated. I'd be interested to see what teams would offer for him on the open market.

Wolf
10-17-2010, 03:35 PM
hahahaha

shit!!!!!

swiss cheese defense

4x4tx
10-17-2010, 03:35 PM
wow they cant make one single play

4x4tx
10-17-2010, 03:36 PM
People can act like Mario Williams is such a maniac all they want, but Mario is exactly what he was described as when we drafted him as a "sometimes" type of player. He has monsterish games at times, but then hardly does a thing in other games when this team desperately needs a pass rush. That's exactly how he was described coming out of college as a guy that takes plays off, and he hasn't been any different as a pro. He's still a very good DE, but he's vastly overrated. I'd be interested to see what teams would offer for him on the open market.

ding ding ding..mario has no heart and doesnt have that motor that goes hard all of the time..today he has done what, made one tackle....brutal

Dread-Head
10-17-2010, 03:41 PM
No this defense BITES! If it SUCKED someone might enjoy them. They allow 400+ yards per game. They should FIRE Frank Bush IMMEDIATELY and hire Wade Phillips. Wade is delusional if he thinks he's going to have a job as a head coach after this year. He might as well just say "vugg it" resign in Dallas and come back HERE to build a defense.

texans3964
10-17-2010, 03:50 PM
is this the same team that beat the colts in week 1.or did we trade some players i didn't know about?

4x4tx
10-17-2010, 03:55 PM
manning threw for 400 yards and if you remember the colts had a lot of drops too..very lucky in that game.....finally with a stop but to me more like a bad call by the chiefs...hopefully we can score a td and sneak out of here with a W

eriadoc
10-17-2010, 04:13 PM
People can act like Mario Williams is such a maniac all they want, but Mario is exactly what he was described as when we drafted him as a "sometimes" type of player. He has monsterish games at times, but then hardly does a thing in other games when this team desperately needs a pass rush. That's exactly how he was described coming out of college as a guy that takes plays off, and he hasn't been any different as a pro. He's still a very good DE, but he's vastly overrated. I'd be interested to see what teams would offer for him on the open market.

ding ding ding..mario has no heart and doesnt have that motor that goes hard all of the time..today he has done what, made one tackle....brutal

Y'all need to invest in a DVR and go back and watch Mario on every play. The guy plays his heart out and the only help he has is Antonio Smith on the other side. Two edge rushers can't do much. You need interior pressure. Add in the perpetual holding that never gets called, and Mario is screwed.

Seriously, if you had to address the problems on D in order of severity, every guy on this defense is a problem before Mario.

Maddict5
10-17-2010, 04:27 PM
antonio was amazing today imo on first view.. he made so many plays it was unbelievably... great pickup. too bad 80% of the D apparently blows

Ranger Tom
10-17-2010, 04:37 PM
No this defense BITES! If it SUCKED someone might enjoy them.

Mr. Cassell seemed to be enjoying them very much.

Wolf
10-17-2010, 04:42 PM
Mr. Cassell seemed to be enjoying them very much.

122.9 qb rating LOL (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore;_ylt=AjOfPC.uKQUENSVOgjv_HDYisLYF?gid=201 01017034)

rickyb
10-17-2010, 04:42 PM
I have to agree. We cannot stop anyone. Cowher, Sharpe, and Boomer all agree: it is difficult to take the Texans seriously because they cannot stay anyone.

I am glad we figured out a way to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, but I am not terribly excited.

This defense blows.

wagonhed
10-17-2010, 04:48 PM
People can act like Mario Williams is such a maniac all they want, but Mario is exactly what he was described as when we drafted him as a "sometimes" type of player. He has monsterish games at times, but then hardly does a thing in other games when this team desperately needs a pass rush. That's exactly how he was described coming out of college as a guy that takes plays off, and he hasn't been any different as a pro. He's still a very good DE, but he's vastly overrated. I'd be interested to see what teams would offer for him on the open market.

This post makes about as much sense as the thread talking about how we need to replace Pollard.

I have an idea, let's replace Schaub and Andre too.

Maddict5
10-17-2010, 04:51 PM
People can act like Mario Williams is such a maniac all they want, but Mario is exactly what he was described as when we drafted him as a "sometimes" type of player. He has monsterish games at times, but then hardly does a thing in other games when this team desperately needs a pass rush. That's exactly how he was described coming out of college as a guy that takes plays off, and he hasn't been any different as a pro. He's still a very good DE, but he's vastly overrated. I'd be interested to see what teams would offer for him on the open market.

:facepalm:

:wadepalm:

Fox
10-17-2010, 04:52 PM
I don't feel like the D is hurting badly for talent, maybe for experience. My main problem is the lack of creativity I see in our scheme. We let the offense dictate the game and just hope that A) Mario or Smith reaches the QB or B) the offense screws up somehow.

Maddict5
10-17-2010, 04:56 PM
the main problem with the D is that the coverage isnt giving nearly enough time for the d-line to influence the game like it should. if other qbs held it the amount of time schaub has to sometimes nobody would be talking about the lack of pressure

eriadoc
10-17-2010, 04:59 PM
I don't feel like the D is hurting badly for talent, maybe for experience. My main problem is the lack of creativity I see in our scheme. We let the offense dictate the game and just hope that A) Mario or Smith reaches the QB or B) the offense screws up somehow.

They're hurting badly for talent, period. They have a top notch MLB (who just went out for the season), a Pro Bowl SLB, a top notch DE, and a good supporting DE. They have no depth to any of those positions. They have no DT that can pressure the middle. They have a WLB that is not very good in pass coverage (kind of a big deal for WLB). They have one sophomore CB that probably ought to be a nickel back working his way toward starting. They have a rookie CB that ought to be learning in limited snaps instead of being thrown to the wolves. They have a couple other corners that just flat suck, including one that was drafted in the 3rd round and has never contributed anything. They have one safety that can't cover and another that can't do much of anything consistently.

So that's four good players, one or two mediocre players, and a bunch of really bad players.

Texecutioner
10-17-2010, 05:01 PM
Y'all need to invest in a DVR and go back and watch Mario on every play. The guy plays his heart out and the only help he has is Antonio Smith on the other side. Two edge rushers can't do much. You need interior pressure. Add in the perpetual holding that never gets called, and Mario is screwed.

Seriously, if you had to address the problems on D in order of severity, every guy on this defense is a problem before Mario.

Are you serious? Mario takes plays off and is very inconsistent. You guys can't keep acting like it's the players around him on the line that make him inconsistent. It's not. He doesn't play with a non stop motor every play. He never has, and that's exactly why he was criticized for that in college. His last season in college he padded his stats off of like 3 monster games and the rest even his own coaches said he took plays off. The guy is a freak physically, but he doesn't have an attitude to dominate on every play. He never has, and this far into his career, I'm done thinking his attitude will change from that. He is what he is. He's a good DE that plays great at times, but also disappears quite frequently when he's needed.

Texecutioner
10-17-2010, 05:08 PM
This post makes about as much sense as the thread talking about how we need to replace Pollard.

I have an idea, let's replace Schaub and Andre too.


Great rebuttal as usual Wagonhead. You really changed my thinking with that waste of a post, but I don't think anyone expects anything less from you.


And please don't disrespect Johnson's name ever again by comparing him to Mario. Johnson is a HOF player already and is the best player in the league at his position. Mario isn't even in the top 5 at his.

Texecutioner
10-17-2010, 05:10 PM
:facepalm:

:wadepalm:

That's exactly what I think of when you guys continually act like Mario's the best DE in this league. He's the Randy Moss of DE's. He's either a monster or he's a ghost.

eriadoc
10-17-2010, 05:11 PM
Are you serious? Mario takes plays off and is very inconsistent. You guys can't keep acting like it's the players around him on the line that make him inconsistent. It's not. He doesn't play with a non stop motor every play. He never has, and that's exactly why he was criticized for that in college. His last season in college he padded his stats off of like 3 monster games and the rest even his own coaches said he took plays off. The guy is a freak physically, but he doesn't have an attitude to dominate on every play. He never has, and this far into his career, I'm done thinking his attitude will change from that. He is what he is. He's a good DE that plays great at times, but also disappears quite frequently when he's needed.

Show me. Use your DVR and show me. I can point to several plays where he's washed out and it has nothing to do with his effort, so go ahead and show me some plays where his effort is lacking.

wagonhed
10-17-2010, 05:20 PM
Really? You expect people to waste their time trying to defend Mario Williams's place on our defense because you think he sucks?

Lol. Get real.

Blake
10-17-2010, 05:26 PM
Are you serious? Mario takes plays off and is very inconsistent. You guys can't keep acting like it's the players around him on the line that make him inconsistent. It's not. He doesn't play with a non stop motor every play. He never has, and that's exactly why he was criticized for that in college. His last season in college he padded his stats off of like 3 monster games and the rest even his own coaches said he took plays off. The guy is a freak physically, but he doesn't have an attitude to dominate on every play. He never has, and this far into his career, I'm done thinking his attitude will change from that. He is what he is. He's a good DE that plays great at times, but also disappears quite frequently when he's needed.

Tex what are you thinking? You need to put down the crack pipe and get your head on straight. These negative posts of yours about Mario Williams are comical. I think you should take the rest of the day off.:tiphat:

FirstTexansFan
10-17-2010, 05:28 PM
I'm going to have to disagree with you Tex... I have video evidence that Mario can get to his man :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCCgYHpeuTQ

Hervoyel
10-17-2010, 05:30 PM
Mario does take plays off. That's just a fact. He doesn't suck but he's not what I'd consider value at the first overall pick in the draft. Sadly I don't think that player existed in 2006 so Mario was the pick that made sense and he has played well for us. I agree that he's overrated and not a defensive leader, just a talented follower who needs more help.

With nothing happening in the middle I can't get on to our our ends about taking plays off though. Antonio Smith has been an impact player opposite Mario but there's not one iota of push in the middle. Until we get a real a)DT and b)FS we are going to continue to be a shit defense and struggle to escape from the "black-hole like pull" of a .500 record.

When they're the only ones creating any pressure at all I don't blame the ends for taking plays off. In my opinion they've almost earned the right.

The offense is kind of coming back around but without a defense we aren't going to be able to handle many of the teams we face over the second half of the season.

Maddict5
10-17-2010, 05:31 PM
That's exactly what I think of when you guys continually act like Mario's the best DE in this league. He's the Randy Moss of DE's. He's either a monster or he's a ghost.

on the live game i counted twice (prob more that i missed) that mario had his man absolutely beat off the snap and was on his waying to mowing down cassel when cassell threw it to an open wr <2 secs. you could have reggie white, deacon jones and freeney playing d-line and they wouldnt be showing up much with our secondary.

marios more than holding up his end. PFF(who rate every player on every play) continually have mario at the top of the DE's every week- not even mentioning his shoulder and groin are banged up

Fox
10-17-2010, 05:39 PM
So that's four good players, one or two mediocre players, and a bunch of really bad players.

The way I see it they have one pro bowl DE who's top 3 for his position with a debate for tops, and a very good supporting DE opposite of him. You have two decent starting DT's in Cody and Okoye. So you have one great, one good, and two decent guys starting up front. Then you have a guy with great potential now on IR in Barwin and another who's obviously got the tools and just needs the development in Mitchell. We've got some solid starters with some developing potential behind them on the front four.

Then at LB you have two pro-bowl LB's who are both top 5 at their respective positions in Demeco and Cushing. Obviously Demeco's now out of the picture. Then at WLB you have an over-achieving 7th rounder who's developed into a solid player. He's not going to the pro-bowl anytime soon but he does his job. Then behind those 3 you have Adibi, who's got great athleticism and can step in to start if you need him to. Hasn't developed how the Texans had hoped but he's a solid back-up. Bentley is another solid back-up who impresses when he's had the opportunity to start. Lastly Sharpton is a player the coaches seemed to like (and I did as well from what I saw in the pre-season), who could develop into a solid role player. So there's two more pro-bowlers, a solid WLB and good, albeit injured, depth.

Then our secondary, which is the weakest part of our D from a talent stand point. Glover Quin is a decent starter in only his second year. He doesn't have the size or speed to be a shut down corner, IMO, but he's great in run support and he's a heady player. He makes the most of his ability, and I wouldn't have a problem with him being our #2 down the road. Kareem Jackson's had an up and down start to his career and I agree he ideally shouldn't have been thrust into a starter's role this soon, but he's a first rounder who was projected to be taken in the top 2 rounds of the draft. He needs more time to develop before I go one way or another with him. Then you have Pollard, who's got the persona of a team captain and can be a game changer. He puts the fear in opposing QB's who want to run, and WR's who want to go across the middle. He showed last year he can make game changing plays in the passing game as well. He's not great in coverage, but if you scheme to his strong suits he can be a great player. Lastly you have FS. Wilson is past his prime, and is a suboptimal starter. Nolan is young, but he's got decent football speed and has a nose for the ball. I'd like to see how he turns out with some more experience. So our secondary is missing a true #1 corner, a developed FS, and some additional depth here would be nice. Quin works for me as a starting #2 and Kareem has the tools but needs the time.

So all in all I see 3 pro-bowlers, and good players in Pollard and Smith - 5/11 good to great starters. Not to mention some young guys with obvious talent in Kareem Jackson, Earl Mitchell, and Glover Quin. There's enough talent right there to avoid being 'hurting badly for talent, period.' And as far as being 'really bad players,' I think context here is key. You've been a Texans fan long enough to remember some of our 'really bad players,' and there's an obvious distinction.

Texecutioner
10-17-2010, 05:42 PM
Tex what are you thinking? You need to put down the crack pipe and get your head on straight. These negative posts of yours about Mario Williams are comical. I think you should take the rest of the day off.:tiphat:

He takes plays off. He has since college. You guys are acting like I said he sucks. I said that he's a good DE. He is, but he's not "great." He does not bring constant pressure. He does in some games, and in others it's hard to even notice his existence on the field. People will always act like he's this dominant force of the league because he's a Texan and because he was a #1 draft pick. If he didn't have that going for him, not one person in here would act like he's as good as people act like he is. You're entitled to your opinion and you may disagree, but I'm tired of seeing him not have a strong impact in certain games. I don't need to always see huge sack numbers, but I want to see constant pressure when we have this kind of secondary. The coaching staff thought our D line was strong enough to help this secondary out and it's failed at that.

Texecutioner
10-17-2010, 05:47 PM
Really? You expect people to waste their time trying to defend Mario Williams's place on our defense because you think he sucks?

Lol. Get real.

Once again, you make yourself look silly by the way you constantly fly into threads with some total ridiculous post with no explanation of anything you say. I said that Mario was a good DE, and you come back saying that I said he sucks knowing that's not what I said at all. Maybe if you learned how to read or to communicate one day you might get taken seriously at some point and wouldn't be kicked out of so many forums.

eriadoc
10-17-2010, 05:51 PM
Mario does take plays off. That's just a fact. He doesn't suck but he's not what I'd consider value at the first overall pick in the draft. Sadly I don't think that player existed in 2006 so Mario was the pick that made sense and he has played well for us. I agree that he's overrated and not a defensive leader, just a talented follower who needs more help.

With nothing happening in the middle I can't get on to our our ends about taking plays off though. Antonio Smith has been an impact player opposite Mario but there's not one iota of push in the middle. Until we get a real a)DT and b)FS we are going to continue to be a shit defense and struggle to escape from the "black-hole like pull" of a .500 record.

When they're the only ones creating any pressure at all I don't blame the ends for taking plays off. In my opinion they've almost earned the right.

The offense is kind of coming back around but without a defense we aren't going to be able to handle many of the teams we face over the second half of the season.

Tried to rep that.

The way I see it they have one pro bowl DE who's top 3 for his position with a debate for tops, and a very good supporting DE opposite of him. You have two decent starting DT's in Cody and Okoye. So you have one great, one good, and two decent guys starting up front. Then you have a guy with great potential now on IR in Barwin and another who's obviously got the tools and just needs the development in Mitchell. We've got some solid starters with some developing potential behind them on the front four.

Then at LB you have two pro-bowl LB's who are both top 5 at their respective positions in Demeco and Cushing. Obviously Demeco's now out of the picture. Then at WLB you have an over-achieving 7th rounder who's developed into a solid player. He's not going to the pro-bowl anytime soon but he does his job. Then behind those 3 you have Adibi, who's got great athleticism and can step in to start if you need him to. Hasn't developed how the Texans had hoped but he's a solid back-up. Bentley is another solid back-up who impresses when he's had the opportunity to start. Lastly Sharpton is a player the coaches seemed to like (and I did as well from what I saw in the pre-season), who could develop into a solid role player. So there's two more pro-bowlers, a solid WLB and good, albeit injured, depth.

Then our secondary, which is the weakest part of our D from a talent stand point. Glover Quin is a decent starter in only his second year. He doesn't have the size or speed to be a shut down corner, IMO, but he's great in run support and he's a heady player. He makes the most of his ability, and I wouldn't have a problem with him being our #2 down the road. Kareem Jackson's had an up and down start to his career and I agree he ideally shouldn't have been thrust into a starter's role this soon, but he's a first rounder who was projected to be taken in the top 2 rounds of the draft. He needs more time to develop before I go one way or another with him. Then you have Pollard, who's got the persona of a team captain and can be a game changer. He puts the fear in opposing QB's who want to run, and WR's who want to go across the middle. He showed last year he can make game changing plays in the passing game as well. He's not great in coverage, but if you scheme to his strong suits he can be a great player. Lastly you have FS. Wilson is past his prime, and is a suboptimal starter. Nolan is young, but he's got decent football speed and has a nose for the ball. I'd like to see how he turns out with some more experience. So our secondary is missing a true #1 corner, a developed FS, and some additional depth here would be nice. Quin works for me as a starting #2 and Kareem has the tools but needs the time.

So all in all I see 3 pro-bowlers, and good players in Pollard and Smith - 5/11 good to great starters. Not to mention some young guys with obvious talent in Kareem Jackson, Earl Mitchell, and Glover Quin. There's enough talent right there to avoid being 'hurting badly for talent, period.' And as far as being 'really bad players,' I think context here is key. You've been a Texans fan long enough to remember some of our 'really bad players,' and there's an obvious distinction.

You are vastly overrating the players, and I think you're not alone. Ok0ye has done nothing to prove to anyone that he's a plus player. At best, he's Just Another Guy. If you look up Just Another Guy, there's a picture of Shaun Cody. Neither of those guys should be starting for a team, much less both on the same team. They should be rotational players.

Diles is an overachieving 7th rounder. You're right about that. But he's bad in coverage. There's no masking it, I'm sorry. And that's kind of important for a guy playing WLB. The team drafted a guy with a better skill set for the position who has just been a bust (Adibi), so Diles stays out there. He should be a rotational player or ST guy.

And the secondary? Honestly, Quin is the only guy worth a damn right now. I give Jsckson a pass because he's a rookie and he's supposed to have a rough time, but the other guys should not be in any starting roster, and maybe not even rotational players. Molden should be in a soup line by now. If I missed work that much, I'd have been fired years ago. And we've never had a safety, ever. The best safety in the history of the Texans is probably Pollard, and he's bad in coverage. Which, you know, is kind of important for a secondary player in a pass-happy league.

This defense is pathetic, and when you surround suck with more suck, you get what we have here in Houston - the NFL's worst defense, and one that's on pace to be the worst in the history of the league.

Fox
10-17-2010, 06:03 PM
This defense is pathetic, and when you surround suck with more suck, you get what we have here in Houston - the NFL's worst defense, and one that's on pace to be the worst in the history of the league.

I think you're greatly undervaluing the amount of talent as a whole. If you want to pick a flaw with each player, be my guest, but even great defenses don't have a good to great player at every position. We have some spots where we have 'just a guy', but we have enough difference makers and solid players to be much better than we have been. We're not 'hurting badly for talent.'

Wolf
10-17-2010, 06:07 PM
Mario does take plays off. That's just a fact. He doesn't suck but he's not what I'd consider value at the first overall pick in the draft. Sadly I don't think that player existed in 2006 so Mario was the pick that made sense and he has played well for us. I agree that he's overrated and not a defensive leader, just a talented follower who needs more help.

With nothing happening in the middle I can't get on to our our ends about taking plays off though. Antonio Smith has been an impact player opposite Mario but there's not one iota of push in the middle. Until we get a real a)DT and b)FS we are going to continue to be a shit defense and struggle to escape from the "black-hole like pull" of a .500 record.

When they're the only ones creating any pressure at all I don't blame the ends for taking plays off. In my opinion they've almost earned the right.

The offense is kind of coming back around but without a defense we aren't going to be able to handle many of the teams we face over the second half of the season.

great post.. I was thinking about this too... Mario and Smith can't go balls to the wall to the QB every time because the damn DT's can't handle their assignment on a semi consistant basis so..

Ckw
10-17-2010, 08:41 PM
Tex, I agree with you to a point. Mario certainly takes plays off. That was his rep in college, and I believe he continues to do the same today. He simply doesn't have that "fire" some other great DEs in the league have had.

That said, Mario is a GREAT player. In fact, he is a phenomenal player. I can only imagine how good Mari would be if he had that "fire."

Big Lou
10-17-2010, 11:20 PM
Hey we held a QB to around 200 yards today!!!!!!


Wait, that was because we gave up like 788 yards on the ground.

TEXANRED
10-17-2010, 11:32 PM
We should call this defense the Hoovers.

4x4tx
10-18-2010, 08:44 AM
Y'all need to invest in a DVR and go back and watch Mario on every play. The guy plays his heart out and the only help he has is Antonio Smith on the other side. Two edge rushers can't do much. You need interior pressure. Add in the perpetual holding that never gets called, and Mario is screwed.

Seriously, if you had to address the problems on D in order of severity, every guy on this defense is a problem before Mario.

LOL dude I am a season ticket holder....I watch plenty upclose and personal....plenty of other top end DE's that still make plays without much help on the rest of their line...he gets paid to make plays, if you cant get to the QB his tackles should be up and he should get his 6'7" hands up to knock down as may passes as schaub gets knocked down.

Section516
10-18-2010, 09:06 AM
Have to understand how valuable the middle of the pocket is. When the opposing QB can step inside and then throw in under 3 seconds, it really negates an outside rush. Thats why a lot of our good plays have been Cushing blitzing up the middle. Middle pressure jacks with QBs. :tiphat:

IDEXAN
10-18-2010, 09:07 AM
Mario not only takes plays off, he takes a series off, sometimes a quarter or whole half off. He is talented when he's on, but like I said he's not consistant about that. And Antonio Smith is our best Dlineman. He's a smart pickup and I think Frank Bush gets credit for that FA pickup since he had him over in Arizona. The rest of the Dline ? Not too much talent there.
How important was Barwin ? I hope were missing him more than we realize,
I hope he was that important to the pass-rush ?
But here's my question: why would the Texans use their second round pick on a back when we still need help so badly on the Dline ? OK they got Michell, but we're gonna have to use multiple high picks in future Drafts if we are ever gonna get talent into this Dline. That's all their is to it.

Section516
10-18-2010, 09:09 AM
Mario not only takes plays off, he takes a series off, sometimes a quarter or whole half off. He is talented when he's on, but like I said he's not consistant about that. And Antonio Smith is our best Dlineman. He's a smart pickup and I think Frank Bush gets credit for that FA pickup since he had him over in Arizona. The rest of the Dline ? Not too much talent there.
How important was Barwin ? I hope were missing him more than we realize,
I hope he was that important to the pass-rush ?
But here's my question: why would the Texans use their second round pick on a back when we still need help so badly on the Dline ? OK they got Michell, but we're gonna have to use multiple high picks in future Drafts if we are ever gonna get talent into this Dline. That's all their is to it.


Rushing Yards Leaders
RK TEAM ATT YDS YDS/A LONG TD YDS/G FUM FUML
30 Houston 425 1475 3.5 32 13 92.2 11 6
31 San Diego 427 1423 3.3 36 17 88.9 2 2
32 Indianapolis 366 1294 3.5 45 16 80.9 4 2

Remember Chris Brown being our lead back? Yeah.

Blake
10-18-2010, 09:33 AM
He takes plays off. He has since college. You guys are acting like I said he sucks. I said that he's a good DE. He is, but he's not "great." He does not bring constant pressure. He does in some games, and in others it's hard to even notice his existence on the field. People will always act like he's this dominant force of the league because he's a Texan and because he was a #1 draft pick. If he didn't have that going for him, not one person in here would act like he's as good as people act like he is. You're entitled to your opinion and you may disagree, but I'm tired of seeing him not have a strong impact in certain games. I don't need to always see huge sack numbers, but I want to see constant pressure when we have this kind of secondary. The coaching staff thought our D line was strong enough to help this secondary out and it's failed at that.

I hear ya. I just dont think we should be worrying about testing him in the open market. He is very good against the run. When the QB isnt able to slide up into the pocket we see Mario and Antonio meet at the QB. The problem is that Mario doesnt have the time to get to the QB. The ball is always out of there in < 3 seconds. I could see that as demoralizing and frustrating.

Actually on second though, maybe we should see what Mario is worth to a team like the Eagles. Then we could see what Mario is really capable of. :kingkong:

BigBull17
10-18-2010, 09:45 AM
He takes plays off. He has since college. You guys are acting like I said he sucks. I said that he's a good DE. He is, but he's not "great." He does not bring constant pressure. He does in some games, and in others it's hard to even notice his existence on the field. People will always act like he's this dominant force of the league because he's a Texan and because he was a #1 draft pick. If he didn't have that going for him, not one person in here would act like he's as good as people act like he is. You're entitled to your opinion and you may disagree, but I'm tired of seeing him not have a strong impact in certain games. I don't need to always see huge sack numbers, but I want to see constant pressure when we have this kind of secondary. The coaching staff thought our D line was strong enough to help this secondary out and it's failed at that.

I agree he does take some plays off, but he is constantly the only guy teams pay attention too. I know you aren't saying he sucks, but can you imagine this D without him? We would find a way to rank 33rd. Nobody else can really generate a pass rush. Smith does it in spurts, but if Mario was gone he would get alot more attention. It's a combo of Mario taking a play off here and there, the pass rushing talent around him and shitty coverage.

HTown2ATX
10-18-2010, 10:01 AM
This defense is beyond blowing.

Sam Houston States defense just called out the Texans D as Charmin soft I heard over the weekend.

Also, I saw a graphic during the game that the Texans D was ranked #31???

How the hell is that?? What team sucks more burro juevos on D than us???

No seriously???

Mr teX
10-18-2010, 10:55 AM
mario does take plays off, but considering the fact that the middle of the pocket is always available for the opposing qb's to step up into, the LT just washes him by & the ball is gone shortly there-after & it looks like he isn't doing much. ]

The easiest fix is probably getting a stud DT in to help mario.

HOU-TEX
10-18-2010, 11:07 AM
I didn't read through the entire thread, but are we really going to single Mario out?

What about Okoye? If he doesn't get in his gap quick enough he's blasted 5 yards off the LOS.

What about Pollard? He can't cover anyone and he made a stupid decision on the late hit which extended a drice that resulted in a score.

What about Diles? He had a shitty game too

My point is that the defense sucks as a unit right now. IMO, the primary reason a defense can get worse each week would be coaching. They need to get the shit fixed because this will not be a playoff team until they do. Hell, we haven't even gotten to the hard part of the schedule yet. It ain't going to be pretty

HTown2ATX
10-18-2010, 02:06 PM
I didn't read through the entire thread, but are we really going to single Mario out?

What about Okoye? If he doesn't get in his gap quick enough he's blasted 5 yards off the LOS.

What about Pollard? He can't cover anyone and he made a stupid decision on the late hit which extended a drice that resulted in a score.

What about Diles? He had a shitty game too

My point is that the defense sucks as a unit right now. IMO, the primary reason a defense can get worse each week would be coaching. They need to get the shit fixed because this will not be a playoff team until they do. Hell, we haven't even gotten to the hard part of the schedule yet. It ain't going to be pretty

Totally agreed, but watch out, going against the status quo is not good around here... :cool:

:rake:

drewmar74
10-18-2010, 02:14 PM
My point is that the defense sucks as a unit right now. IMO, the primary reason a defense can get worse each week would be coaching. They need to get the shit fixed because this will not be a playoff team until they do. Hell, we haven't even gotten to the hard part of the schedule yet. It ain't going to be pretty

Totally agreed, but watch out, going against the status quo is not good around here... :cool:

:rake:

Yes. Your loyalty as a fan will be questioned and you might be paid a visit by der kommisar.

http://obsessivejew.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/image/image_id11368w350h300_Soviet_KGB_propaganda_poster _DO_NOT_BLAB!.jpg

Poster translates to: Do not question our defense, comrade. You must keep quiet to help defend the motherland.

HTown2ATX
10-18-2010, 02:16 PM
Yes. Your loyalty as a fan will be questioned and you might be paid a visit by der kommisar.

http://obsessivejew.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/image/image_id11368w350h300_Soviet_KGB_propaganda_poster _DO_NOT_BLAB!.jpg

Poster translates to: Do not question our defense, comrade. You must keep quiet to help defend the motherland.


:lol:

LMAO

Texecutioner
10-18-2010, 02:24 PM
I agree he does take some plays off, but he is constantly the only guy teams pay attention too. I know you aren't saying he sucks, but can you imagine this D without him? We would find a way to rank 33rd. Nobody else can really generate a pass rush. Smith does it in spurts, but if Mario was gone he would get alot more attention. It's a combo of Mario taking a play off here and there, the pass rushing talent around him and shitty coverage.

This is a good point and I'll give you some rep here for it. He does command a ton of attention since our DT's are so lousy. That certainly doesn't make things easier for him. I just feel like at times when I watch the guy that I don't see the explosiveness from a guy that wants to dominate a game. Some players love to dominate while others are okay with doing things here and there and earning their keep, but they don't have that gritty attitude to destroy people. Maybe if I didn't hear so much about Mario lacking that type of attitude from college and seeing the similar style of play from him now in the pros it wouldn't be such a sticking point, but I just want to see more energy from the guy for an entire game every game. I know that he's one of our top 3 players on defense and he's certainly not the guy to be blasting right now when he's one of our best players, but I'd like to see more from our #1 draft pick and franchise DE. Good post though man.

Texecutioner
10-18-2010, 02:30 PM
I hear ya. I just dont think we should be worrying about testing him in the open market.

I agree that was probably a little much. I hardly ever think someone is untradable though, unless it's your star QB or a guy that's as great as AJ and there is no one else like that on the Texans right now. We definitely need Mario and he's very good, but we need more from him right now. Our staff gambled with this secondary like a group of bumbling bufoons, and right now they need Mario and company to bail them out. Sometimes your star players have to step up to the plate and do that. AJ has for years for us on offense. We need Mario and Cushing to do that now.

Double Barrel
10-18-2010, 03:01 PM
Mario does take plays off. That's just a fact. He doesn't suck but he's not what I'd consider value at the first overall pick in the draft. Sadly I don't think that player existed in 2006 so Mario was the pick that made sense and he has played well for us. I agree that he's overrated and not a defensive leader, just a talented follower who needs more help.

With nothing happening in the middle I can't get on to our our ends about taking plays off though. Antonio Smith has been an impact player opposite Mario but there's not one iota of push in the middle. Until we get a real a)DT and b)FS we are going to continue to be a shit defense and struggle to escape from the "black-hole like pull" of a .500 record.

When they're the only ones creating any pressure at all I don't blame the ends for taking plays off. In my opinion they've almost earned the right.

The offense is kind of coming back around but without a defense we aren't going to be able to handle many of the teams we face over the second half of the season.

Good post, and I agree overall with the exception of the bolded. I wanted D'Brickashaw Ferguson and he's proven to be worth his weight in gold on that Jets offensive line.

I'd like to think that our D was a so-called 'work in progress', but I'm just not seeing anything that resembles progress from week to week.

This season's fortunes rests with our offense, so we might snag a playoff spot, but I wouldn't expect them to go far with such a horrible defense.

Corrosion
10-18-2010, 03:07 PM
Totally agreed, but watch out, going against the status quo is not good around here... :cool:

:rake:

Ive got his back .... :cowboy1:


Its pretty obvious that many respected members around here feel the same way.

I dont think any of us expected this defense to be THIS BAD after the way they played at the end of last season. Injuries and suspensions sure havent helped .... But they have to find a way to fix what ails them or its gonna be another LONG offseason.

I think the loss of Barwin is a big part of why they arent getting much pressure on the QB. With Barwin on the field they were able to do some exotic things as well as moving Antonio Smith inside on passing downs.

The loss of Ryans will likely have an even bigger impact unless by some miracle this team can fill that void .... how and with whom I have no idea.

Im almost ready to take a flyer on Fat Albert to get some push up the middle - and I cant stand that tool.


.

This season's fortunes rests with our offense, so we might snag a playoff spot, but I wouldn't expect them to go far with such a horrible defense.

The offense might have to put up a 50 spot every week from here on out to win enough to earn a trip to the dance. That defense is just that bad.

silvrhand
10-18-2010, 03:10 PM
The offense might have to put up a 50 spot every week from here on out to win enough to earn a trip to the dance. That defense is just that bad.

I'd rather at least go with R. Seymour at least he isn't a complete tool and has a winning team history...