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Marcus
10-05-2010, 05:44 PM
With AJ and JJ both hobbled, I'm lookin for DD to get some major reps with the first team this week, and with that some serious playing time against the Giants.

(And for dinner tonight, I think I'm gonna cook me up a nife hot bowl of alphabet thoop)

:chef:

m5kwatts
10-05-2010, 05:46 PM
I thought we we're going to see a lot of DD last week. He's clearly last on the WR depth chart at best.

TexCanada
10-05-2010, 05:49 PM
Ya I'm not convinced that he will see any time at all. You would have thought he would have made an appearance last week if he was going to at all. AJ should be back, and KW and DA are still ahead of Dorin.

CretorFrigg
10-05-2010, 05:53 PM
With AJ and JJ both hobbled, I'm lookin for DD to get some major reps with the first team this week, and with that some serious playing time against the Giants.

Was Dorin even activated for the game against the Raiders?

I was really high on him during the pre-season. He displayed a lot of potential for the limited playing time he received. How can you not forget that one-handed grab along the sideline?

It's not often you see a former college TE run a 4.4. He sure has all the intangibles; all Dorin's got to do is work on his fundamentals, and he can certainly transform into a solid, if not elite (hopefully), receiver.

texan9885
10-05-2010, 05:56 PM
Was Dorin even activated for the game against the Raiders?

Yes, I saw him play special teams.

texasguy346
10-05-2010, 05:57 PM
Was Dorin even activated for the game against the Raiders?


He was active. He made the tackle on the Raiders kickoff return by Jacoby Ford where he nearly took it the distance. Ford had gotten by Rackers and looked as though he was going to pull away when Dickerson got just enough of his jersey to force him out of bounds.

TimeKiller
10-05-2010, 06:01 PM
Hard to ignore his talent when you see David Anderson getting reps...

CretorFrigg
10-05-2010, 06:05 PM
Hard to ignore his talent when you see David Anderson getting reps...

David Anderson is a very serviceable slot receiver. You can count on him because it seems like he has glue for hands -- a lot like KW.

Dorin Dickerson, while I'm a huge fan of his, does need to develop first before we can rely on him as a WR. He did have some crucial, very catchable passes dropped during the preseason.

m5kwatts
10-05-2010, 06:21 PM
David Anderson is a very serviceable slot receiver. You can count on him because it seems like he has glue for hands -- a lot like KW.

Dorin Dickerson, while I'm a huge fan of his, does need to develop first before we can rely on him as a WR. He did have some crucial, very catchable passes dropped during the preseason.

Dickerson's development first and foremost will be learning the offense. He wasn't in because they would've had to trim down the play selection to plays they feel comfortable running with Dickerson, which obviously now we see they don't feel comfortable running any plays with Dickerson in. David Anderson knows the offense as good as anyone on the team so the play-call selection stayed wide open.

JWarren14
10-05-2010, 06:44 PM
Dickerson's development first and foremost will be learning the offense. He wasn't in because they would've had to trim down the play selection to plays they feel comfortable running with Dickerson, which obviously now we see they don't feel comfortable running any plays with Dickerson in. David Anderson knows the offense as good as anyone on the team so the play-call selection stayed wide open.

Do you think it is possible to have a set number of plays listed in which they feel he can create mismatches? Maybe in the RZ?

I'd like to get him in on some screen plays/running plays too, since he played TE he should help blocking down the field.

Above all I hope AJ is 100% come Sunday and heading into the bye week.

Corrosion
10-05-2010, 06:44 PM
Was Dorin even active for the Raiders game ? I dont recall seeing him on the field at all.


After JJ went down they played the rest of the game running only 1 or 2 WR sets with Walter and Anderson getting those snaps.

Rey
10-05-2010, 06:47 PM
Dickerson's development first and foremost will be learning the offense. He wasn't in because they would've had to trim down the play selection to plays they feel comfortable running with Dickerson, which obviously now we see they don't feel comfortable running any plays with Dickerson in. David Anderson knows the offense as good as anyone on the team so the play-call selection stayed wide open.

I really don't think that had anything to do with it. Normally, you trim a playbook down if your QB doesn't have a full grasp of what's going on. I can't really see them doing that for a WR.

DA is next on the depth chart, and Kubiak probably just trusts him more.

Big Lou
10-05-2010, 07:20 PM
I almost started a thread about Dorin this week, but I already started a couple.

I thought we would see him last week, but no DD2 (D. Davis, or eh, D. Williams was the first DD). If AJ and JJ both don't go I would think he would have to see playing time.


We can't exactly run 2 WR sets with just KW and DA all day against the Giants. If we have to run with two WR's we better get ahead early.

I guess we could run a lot of 2 TE sets with the purpose of using them as Recievers.

We have been splitting Foster out in motion as a Reciever a lot with success, but even if Dorin plays we couldn't really run a lot of heavy WR sets, and our Recievers are gonna be pretty tired by the 3rd and 4th Quarter from lack of rotation. The Giants will really be able to load up against the run, and they will be able to tee off on Shaub with out a little more speed from th Wide Outs.

Hope AJ and JJ get healthy fast. Bt don't rush AJ back and risk making his injury worse!!!!

m5kwatts
10-05-2010, 07:24 PM
Do you think it is possible to have a set number of plays listed in which they feel he can create mismatches? Maybe in the RZ?

I'd like to get him in on some screen plays/running plays too, since he played TE he should help blocking down the field.

Above all I hope AJ is 100% come Sunday and heading into the bye week.

I imagine they could have game planned a handful of plays for Dickerson had they known JJ would go down with a hammy. Just going off what we saw Sunday, they didn't install anything with Dorin on offense.

I really don't think that had anything to do with it. Normally, you trim a playbook down if your QB doesn't have a full grasp of what's going on. I can't really see them doing that for a WR.

DA is next on the depth chart, and Kubiak probably just trusts him more.

Yes and what is that trust founded in? His grasp of the playbook. Heck they were splitting Dreessen out as a WR3 on 3rd downs. That tells me its more than just "whose next on the depth chart" its a matter of Kubiak not feeling comfortable with Dickerson running even 1 snap of offense right now. I don't know why he's uncomfortable with that, we're all just guessing here. I'm not saying there's something wrong with Dorin either, just that as of right now he's a complete non-factor on offense and all signs point to it being his lack of grasp of the playbook.

Rey
10-05-2010, 07:45 PM
Yes and what is that trust founded in? His grasp of the playbook.

No, that is incorrect.

From my personal experiences trust is more about a players ability to execute and perform. Technique is a big issue with being able to go out and perform...Not making mental mistakes during a play is a big issue as well.

I've seen plenty of guys who do not have as good of a grasp of the playbook as vets above them on the depth chart end up getting more playing time because they were too talented to keep off the field.

Dickerson is raw from a technique aspect. He is most likely not as familiar with the playbook as DA and that probably has something to do with it. But I do think that Dickerson being raw as a WR has a lot to do with it as well.



Heck they were splitting Dreessen out as a WR3 on 3rd downs. That tells me its more than just "whose next on the depth chart" its a matter of Kubiak not feeling comfortable with Dickerson running even 1 snap of offense right now.

I though Dickerson had got some snaps, but I guess I was mistaken. Nevertheless, that doesn't really say anything about his grasp of the playbook. Says more about his comfort level with Dreesen going out and doing the right thing and not getting a teammate killed.


I don't know why he's uncomfortable with that, we're all just guessing here. I'm not saying there's something wrong with Dorin either, just that as of right now he's a complete non-factor on offense and all signs point to it being his lack of grasp of the playbook.


I disagree. I've played with players that knew the playbook better than the starters but they were end of the bench kind of guys. Not that they completely sucked, but coaches tend to go with guys who they've been through 'battle' with already. If you are in the heat of a game, it makes little sense to go with a guy who you don't really know how he's going to react vs. guys who you know exactly what you're going to get out of them.

If Jacoby and/or Dre are out for this next game, I would not be surprised to see Dickerson in on some snaps...At the same time I would not be surprised to the TE's used in those extra WR sets.

I don't think that Kubiak has shied away from putting DD in because of his lack of knowledge of the playbook. He's played plenty of young guys before and I don't think they've dialed down the play-book because of it.

I can't say for certain Dickerson has had anymore trouble learning the playbook than Duane Brown, or Brian Cushing, or Kjax, or Mario, or Demeco or Wali Lundy, or Owen Daniels or Amobi Okoye or Glover Quinn or Steve Slaton...All of these are guys that came in and played after only being with the team for about the same amount of time as Dickerson...Most a lot sooner...


I just think that he's raw, Kubiak doesn't know how he'll react so he doesn't play him because he hasn't had to.

You can know the playbook in and out, but if you go out on the field and get Pwned, then it doesn't matter. Kubiak doesn't know if he will get Pwned or not. He knows that DA and Dreesen will not. No need to test that in a game when you're winning and trying to protect a lead.

Texan_Bill
10-05-2010, 08:40 PM
Was Dorin even active for the Raiders game ? I dont recall seeing him on the field at all.


After JJ went down they played the rest of the game running only 1 or 2 WR sets with Walter and Anderson getting those snaps.

Now that must strike fear in defenses around the league. Don't get me wrong, both are nice players, but OUCH!!

JB
10-05-2010, 08:45 PM
The thing that people need to remember is that WR is one of the most difficult positions to learn. No matter how talented physically DD is, until the staff and Schaub feel comfortable with him, he will not see time in the regular offense.

m5kwatts
10-05-2010, 09:05 PM
No, that is incorrect.

From my personal experiences trust is more about a players ability to execute and perform. Technique is a big issue with being able to go out and perform...Not making mental mistakes during a play is a big issue as well.

I've seen plenty of guys who do not have as good of a grasp of the playbook as vets above them on the depth chart end up getting more playing time because they were too talented to keep off the field.

Dickerson is raw from a technique aspect. He is most likely not as familiar with the playbook as DA and that probably has something to do with it. But I do think that Dickerson being raw as a WR has a lot to do with it as well.




I though Dickerson had got some snaps, but I guess I was mistaken. Nevertheless, that doesn't really say anything about his grasp of the playbook. Says more about his comfort level with Dreesen going out and doing the right thing and not getting a teammate killed.




I disagree. I've played with players that knew the playbook better than the starters but they were end of the bench kind of guys. Not that they completely sucked, but coaches tend to go with guys who they've been through 'battle' with already. If you are in the heat of a game, it makes little sense to go with a guy who you don't really know how he's going to react vs. guys who you know exactly what you're going to get out of them.

If Jacoby and/or Dre are out for this next game, I would not be surprised to see Dickerson in on some snaps...At the same time I would not be surprised to the TE's used in those extra WR sets.

I don't think that Kubiak has shied away from putting DD in because of his lack of knowledge of the playbook. He's played plenty of young guys before and I don't think they've dialed down the play-book because of it.

I can't say for certain Dickerson has had anymore trouble learning the playbook than Duane Brown, or Brian Cushing, or Kjax, or Mario, or Demeco or Wali Lundy, or Owen Daniels or Amobi Okoye or Glover Quinn or Steve Slaton...All of these are guys that came in and played after only being with the team for about the same amount of time as Dickerson...Most a lot sooner...


I just think that he's raw, Kubiak doesn't know how he'll react so he doesn't play him because he hasn't had to.

You can know the playbook in and out, but if you go out on the field and get Pwned, then it doesn't matter. Kubiak doesn't know if he will get Pwned or not. He knows that DA and Dreesen will not. No need to test that in a game when you're winning and trying to protect a lead.

I don't know how you got so off track there, my argument is players who aren't a part of the game-plan installation process during the week don't play on Sunday. Dickerson didn't take a single offensive snap on Sunday which tells me they didn't install anything for him.

Now where we can differ in opinion is on why they weren't installing anything for him last week. We can all have our guesses and we'll never know for sure but I think they're not happy with his grasp of the playbook yet and I'm not slighting Dickerson and I'm not slighting the coaches either. He's converting from being a college tight end to a receiver in one of the most complex offenses in the NFL, I don't blame him.

Could it be technique stuff too? Definitely, getting off press, reading NFL defenses presnap, all of that goes into it. The worst part for him is not only does he have to do those things well but he has 4 guys above him on the depth chart who are WAY ahead of him in developing as Houston Texans WRs.

TheRealJoker
10-05-2010, 09:10 PM
We didn't see a lot of Dickerson because we were running so many 2 TE sets and running the ball because it worked so well.

BigBull17
10-05-2010, 09:29 PM
David Anderson is a very serviceable slot receiver. You can count on him because it seems like he has glue for hands -- a lot like KW.

Dorin Dickerson, while I'm a huge fan of his, does need to develop first before we can rely on him as a WR. He did have some crucial, very catchable passes dropped during the preseason.

DA has good hands, but lacks speed, agility, ability to gain separation. He isn't strong, and is short. Doesn't offer much, truth be told.

Number19
10-05-2010, 10:13 PM
The thing that people need to remember is that ...Schaub (needs to)feel comfortable with him.Here, you've hit the nail on the head. If the QB and receiver are not in tune, interceptions happen. In an important game you'd prefer not to have this learning on the fly thing happening. It's more than probable that he and Shaub are getting a few more snaps together this week. AJ will probably play but it is less certain about JJ. He may be getting some of JJ's snaps.

Number19
10-05-2010, 10:21 PM
DA has good hands, but lacks speed, agility, ability to gain separation. He isn't strong, and is short. Doesn't offer much, truth be told.Sounds like Ray Berry, except Ray had one leg shorter than the other and wore contacts ( the first player to do so ). Ask Johnny U (or his ghost) the value of a possession receiver.

David Anderson has his role on this team, but truth be told, he is under utilized, which is not surprising with the other talent Shaub has to throw to.

BigBull17
10-05-2010, 10:28 PM
Sounds like Ray Berry, except Ray had one leg shorter than the other and wore contacts ( the first player to do so ). Ask Johnny U (or his ghost) the value of a possession receiver.

David Anderson has his role on this team, but truth be told, he is under utilized, which is not surprising with the other talent Shaub has to throw to.

DA is utilized just enough. He is a poor possession guy because he is short and cant get separation.

Fred
10-05-2010, 10:37 PM
Now that must strike fear in defenses around the league. Don't get me wrong, both are nice players, but OUCH!!

The picture in the Chronicle was very scary. 4 Texans receivers in the endzone celebrating a touchdown - Dressen, Daniels, Walters, Anderson. They were all white. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Texan_Bill
10-05-2010, 10:38 PM
DA is utilized just enough. He is a poor possession guy because he is short and cant get separation.

You kinda have that backwards... He's an excellent possesion guy in that he catches most anything near him. As far as getting separation, yeah, you're right.

Texan_Bill
10-05-2010, 10:39 PM
The picture in the Chronicle was very scary. 4 Texans receivers in the endzone celebrating a touchdown - Dressen, Daniels, Walters, Anderson. They were all white. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

:spit:


I mean :heh:

Number19
10-05-2010, 10:48 PM
DA is utilized just enough. He is a poor possession guy because he is short and cant get separation.The classic possession receiver is built around precision routes and timing, on the five to ten yard patterns. With a QB and receiver in tune, this completion will be there.

BigBull17
10-05-2010, 10:54 PM
The classic possession receiver is built around precision routes and timing, on the five to ten yard patterns. With a QB and receiver in tune, this completion will be there.

Except DA is completely unable to gain separation.

Number19
10-05-2010, 10:57 PM
Except DA is completely unable to gain separation.You have a completion. You have a first down. Why do you need separation?

(edit) But it is true that he has only two receptions for the first four games. I don't know how many plays he's played; but if the Giants get to Shaub like they got to Cutler, DA may be seeing a lot more balls.

BigBull17
10-05-2010, 11:24 PM
You have a completion. You have a first down. Why do you need separation?

(edit) But it is true that he has only two receptions for the first four games. I don't know how many plays he's played; but if the Giants get to Shaub like they got to Cutler, DA may be seeing a lot more balls.

I would rather see Slaton get those touches. Or Foster. DA is average at the very best.

Big Lou
10-05-2010, 11:27 PM
I sure hope our WR Corp gets healthy because the Giants will be chomping at the bit. Sure Shaub isn't Cutler in Martz's scheme, but it's not gonna be hard to get 10 coverage sacks with KW, and DA running around for 60+ snaps. I mean I'm a huge K Dub fan, and DA is OK, but they succeed because of #80. When AJ, and KW are on the field they compliment each other perfectly, but take AJ out of the picture and it's a little different situation.

We could have the 5 all time best Offensive Linemen and they couldn't keep that front 7 off Shaub all day.....

Corrosion
10-05-2010, 11:41 PM
I sure hope our WR Corp gets healthy because the Giants will be chomping at the bit. Sure Shaub isn't Cutler in Martz's scheme, but it's not gonna be hard to get 10 coverage sacks with KW, and DA running around for 60+ snaps. I mean I'm a huge K Dub fan, and DA is OK, but they succeed because of #80. When AJ, and KW are on the field they compliment each other perfectly, but take AJ out of the picture and it's a little different situation.

We could have the 5 all time best Offensive Linemen and they couldn't keep that front 7 off Shaub all day.....

I think you sell KW and DA short , they both have a knack of finding a soft spot in coverage .... But a healthy AJ makes life much easier for Schaub.

Hervoyel
10-05-2010, 11:52 PM
David Anderson is a very serviceable slot receiver. You can count on him because it seems like he has glue for hands -- a lot like KW.

Dorin Dickerson, while I'm a huge fan of his, does need to develop first before we can rely on him as a WR. He did have some crucial, very catchable passes dropped during the preseason.

This. Dickerson is a long-term project. Admittedly he's a long-term project with immense potential but he's still got a lot of work to do. I don't look for him to have any significant impact until next year. The man has skills and he's got all the tools he needs but he's learning to be a WR from the ground up. He needs more time than this.

Seņor Stan
10-06-2010, 07:12 AM
I thought we we're going to see a lot of DD last week.

Sincerely,

The babe of the day thread

Yankee_In_TX
10-06-2010, 10:36 AM
With AJ and JJ both hobbled, I'm lookin for DD to get some major reps with the first team this week, and with that some serious playing time against the Giants.

(And for dinner tonight, I think I'm gonna cook me up a nife hot bowl of alphabet thoop)

:chef:

I saw your thread title and thouhg, hey, I REALLY want a healthy 80 and 12, BUT if that's not possible, I'd love to see DD out there, I was a HUGE fan in camp and preseason.

Yankee_In_TX
10-06-2010, 10:37 AM
This. Dickerson is a long-term project. Admittedly he's a long-term project with immense potential but he's still got a lot of work to do. I don't look for him to have any significant impact until next year. The man has skills and he's got all the tools he needs but he's learning to be a WR from the ground up. He needs more time than this.

Man, why ya' gotta' pee all over my Corn Flakes?



(but yeah, that sounds right)

Rey
10-06-2010, 07:26 PM
I don't know how you got so off track there, my argument is players who aren't a part of the game-plan installation process during the week don't play on Sunday. Dickerson didn't take a single offensive snap on Sunday which tells me they didn't install anything for him.

I disagree.

Unless you are a special kind of player teams aren't generally 'installing' anything for you. You get in there and run the plays that are called.

But besides that, I don't know what that has to do with your original asserion which was that he didn't know the plays?????????????

I think you are mistaken with this "install" stuff. That's not how it works.

Number19
10-06-2010, 08:20 PM
I sure hope our WR Corp gets healthy because the Giants will be chomping at the bit. Sure Shaub isn't Cutler in Martz's scheme, but it's not gonna be hard to get 10 coverage sacks with KW, and DA running around for 60+ snaps. I mean I'm a huge K Dub fan, and DA is OK, but they succeed because of #80. When AJ, and KW are on the field they compliment each other perfectly, but take AJ out of the picture and it's a little different situation.

We could have the 5 all time best Offensive Linemen and they couldn't keep that front 7 off Shaub all day.....Two years ago when AJ missed all those games to injury, KW, DA and OD all had great games and year.

JWarren14
11-04-2010, 04:39 PM
Alright we are half way through the season, I think it's time to get Dickerson and some other younger players some snaps to see if they can make some plays.

Walter hasn't been impressive lately and Jacoby's time as a WR project is past it's due date. Dickerson has had training camp and 8 regular season weeks to be able to be a part of some designated plays. If anything he can help block in the running game when Foster gets outside.

I'd like to see some of the younger players get some run.

Corrosion
11-04-2010, 06:15 PM
Alright we are half way through the season, I think it's time to get Dickerson and some other younger players some snaps to see if they can make some plays.

Walter hasn't been impressive lately and Jacoby's time as a WR project is past it's due date. Dickerson has had training camp and 8 regular season weeks to be able to be a part of some designated plays. If anything he can help block in the running game when Foster gets outside.

I'd like to see some of the younger players get some run.

I think you are wrong on both accounts above in bold.


The passing game has been hindered by poor pass protection ..... the kind of routes that KW tends to run take time to develop , Schaub hasnt been afforded that time.

Jones still needs work but he's come a long way from the kid who scared the shit out of you every time he touched the ball .... wondering if he was gonna put it on the turf. I think next season (if there is one) is the make or break year for him.

Also the emergence of the running game has taken away at least a few of the opportunities for all the recievers ..... I want to see DD get on the field just as much as the next guy but you gotta get the facts straight.

Rey
11-04-2010, 06:28 PM
Jones still needs work but he's come a long way from the kid who scared the shit out of you every time he touched the ball..

He still scares me.

That fumble he had last game on the sideline that Foster caught could be a game costing fumble next time. I still don't trust his hands.

CretorFrigg
11-04-2010, 06:40 PM
He still scares me.

That fumble he had last game on the sideline that Foster caught could be a game costing fumble next time. I still don't trust his hands.

I'm with you that!

He can't catch a pass worth anything. Many of his dropped passes have been during third downs and have cost us a possession. And God forbid if he accidentally tips a pass for the defense to intercept and return for a touchdown.

Oh wait, I think that's happened before...:kitten:

Rey
11-04-2010, 06:59 PM
I'm with you that!

He can't catch a pass worth anything. Many of his dropped passes have been during third downs and have cost us a possession. And God forbid if he accidentally tips a pass for the defense to intercept and return for a touchdown.

Oh wait, I think that's happened before...:kitten:

Yeah...He hasn't taken the step forward that I would have liked him to take...

I would not mind some more competition at the WR spot next year for both Walter and JJ.