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wolf123
03-24-2005, 08:01 AM
The texans have begun to show there hand as usual. John mclain says that the texans are in love with the speed of this guys and think he can be the guy to take this offense to another level. I for one agree completely, when you double team andre you have to have someone that can beat the defense deep, and thats exactly what this guys is great at.

Mr Shush
03-24-2005, 08:04 AM
Matt Jones is fast, huge and won't need a round one pick, and I'm not even really sure I'd want us to draft him. I really hope you and Mr. McClain (who is this guy - sorry, I'm British) are wrong.

cadahnic
03-24-2005, 09:00 AM
Shush i like your statement. I do not like Troy Williamson and I hope we do not spend 13 money on him. I do like jerome mathis, vin. jackson, and reggie brown. Ohh forgot mark bradley and terrance murphy. Anyway they all have speed and brown could be our pick since he is fast and 6'4". Hopefully in the first we trade up if DJ is available only to 8 or 9 though. If not I like us staying right where we are and grabbing Carlos Rogers (a bigger D-Rob)

Tailgate
03-24-2005, 09:04 AM
There is NO WAY we get DJ in the draft. Troy Williamson is a FINE pick and will solve our WR problems. Then we draft in the trenches. Not a bad route for our future in my opinion.

cadahnic
03-24-2005, 09:13 AM
Tailgate, Williamson will not solve our WR problems. If you want to know what he is going to look like in the pro level as a rook look at Reggie willams with the Jags. Williamson is that type of player a poor route runner with speed and not very good hands in the clutch. I understand he is a burner, but there are 4 to 5 burners in this draft who will go lower. and 2 of them have better hands. If we are smart we grab Jerome Mathis who can get rid of JJ Moses and stretch the field when we go 3 out.

Tailgate
03-24-2005, 09:36 AM
Tailgate, Williamson will not solve our WR problems. If you want to know what he is going to look like in the pro level as a rook look at Reggie willams with the Jags. Williamson is that type of player a poor route runner with speed and not very good hands in the clutch. I understand he is a burner, but there are 4 to 5 burners in this draft who will go lower. and 2 of them have better hands. If we are smart we grab Jerome Mathis who can get rid of JJ Moses and stretch the field when we go 3 out.


If there are so many burners and some with better hands.... then why are they not projected to go as high?

cadahnic
03-24-2005, 09:40 AM
come on man the same reason why TD did not go very high, Why TO did not go high, Ray Lewis did not go high. See scouting is what you call a guessing game. Why did Reggie Williams go so high and 3rd rounder Earnest Wilford outplay him all year. Hype is a wonderful thing. And dont get me wrong the kid is talented, but production and Texan money would be better spent on a WR in the 3rd or trade back into the second. Reggie Brown is my pick for Anquan Boldin of the year. There is always one.

Tailgate
03-24-2005, 09:52 AM
Your exactly right. Thus you put trust into your FO and scouting team. What if we DID pass Troy up and he did become the next Marvin Harrison, etc.. I will go with trust of our FO over some message board talk. Thats the difference for me anyway.

Texans32
03-24-2005, 09:59 AM
we could draft Parish out of miami in the 2nd or 3rd round as well, he is also a fast, sure handed reciever who could help the O, then spend our 1st pick on someone for D-fense

The Preacher
03-24-2005, 10:00 AM
True dat what about Tony Brown from Tennessee I've seen him play a bunch. With two freshman qb's last year and a hoard of receivers he led the team in catches over Meachem. A quiet producer, decent size and speed, good hands I think he'll be a great value possibly late second day pick. I don't know about Anquan Boldin but I hope he makes it somewhere. I guess that would make him a Derrick Mason pick. Only local teams like Titans checked him out kind of like Troy Fleming last year.

cadahnic
03-24-2005, 10:08 AM
I have seen tape of Brown and he is decent. He is just a a little slow. He can catch though. I see him as Jabar Gaffney type of player. A solid slot receiver with sure hands, but those are not the fancy picks this year ya know. I think we waste our 13th pick if we do not go defense. We have to know that if we want to win we have to play some D. Our offense is actually better than alot of people think and we are a couple of players away from being tops in the league. Everyone keeps talking about AJ needs something to help him out. AJ is 6'2" 230 which means he does not need any help to get open. Look at TO who had no #2 receiver yet he could not be stopped. That is AJ by the way. GO DEFENSE GO DEFENSE

Tailgate
03-24-2005, 10:18 AM
If our first string Defense stays healthy... I see no reason why we wont improve quite a bit from last year. With Robaire, Walker, and Payne on the DL... (if they stay healthy mind you)... who are you wanting to draft to bring that immediate impact,etc??

infantrycak
03-24-2005, 10:19 AM
Tailgate, Williamson will not solve our WR problems. If you want to know what he is going to look like in the pro level as a rook look at Reggie willams with the Jags. Williamson is that type of player a poor route runner with speed and not very good hands in the clutch. I understand he is a burner, but there are 4 to 5 burners in this draft who will go lower. and 2 of them have better hands. If we are smart we grab Jerome Mathis who can get rid of JJ Moses and stretch the field when we go 3 out.

Reggie Williams is not a good comparison. Williams was not known as a burner, particularly not after turning in a 4.62 40 yd.--his claim to fame was more as a big physical WR.

Link (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/reggie_williams)

A better comparison is Javon Walker.

Link (http://ww2.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/walker_javon.htm)

The Preacher
03-24-2005, 10:29 AM
Anybody know our average time of possesion last year it could be hard to gauge our offense b/c it seemed we struggled stopping teams on 3rd down at times and the d was on the field constantly. Toughen up the D with one year's improvement on o-line and all of a sudden offensive stats could go way up w/o any major additions.

infantrycak
03-24-2005, 10:33 AM
Anybody know our average time of possesion last year

29:59 on the year.

Tailgate
03-24-2005, 10:35 AM
Removed deleted quote


Walker is 2 years removed from a Pro Bowl. Don't give up on him just yet. Our D was vastly improving last year the farther and farther away Payne was removed from surgery. Besides... you did not mention drafting a DL with our first pick...so no sense in me going there in depth.

Yes, depth in the secondary would be nice....but can be addressed in later rounds no matter who we get in the first. I also feel this can be done with a LB as well.

Now... do you really think by us drafting Barron and starting him at LT this year would actually be a good thing...and have immediate impact? He might turn out to be a servicable LT in a couple years...but he wont just come in and be good enough to warrent Wand moving to G.

So we can afford to draft WR with first, then address the trenches and a back up CB with the rest of our picks, etc.

nunusguy
03-24-2005, 10:39 AM
What do we know that is impressive about this guy except that he has
a lot of speed: he turned in some fast times (sub 4.4 I think) at the combine
and his sprint times at the scholastic level are sell documented. But speed in and of itself is meaningless for a football player if one doesn't have skills for his position.
ON TV I saw Mike Williams play at USC year before last and just saw Edwards on the tube in the Rose Bowl - they were both very impressive.
I've never seen Williamson in action. Has anybody ? If so lets have some testimony about his hands, ability to run pass routes, toughness after making a reception and hanging on to the ball when getting hit, etc.
As an example, when AJ came out of Miami his skills were well know: he was very tough to bring down after a catch and had very good hands but needed
improvement on his pass routes, and obviously had very good size - many said he looked more like a LB than a WR. And he had speed but this was almost like iceing on the cake because to be sure he was (and certainly has proved to), first and most of all a football player.
Unless we just want to jump on the bandwagon and be part of the heard mentality we need something more specific and convincing than he's fast
and talented. Got to keep in mind, this guy is trying out ffor the NFL, not the 100 Meter sprint in the next Olympics.

Lucky
03-24-2005, 10:39 AM
A better comparison is Javon Walker.

I was thinking Donte Stallworth (http://ww2.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/stallworth_donte.htm) from the same draft. SEC burner. Underclassman. Late riser after he ripped a 4.2 something at his pro day workout. Went #13 in the draft. Has been so-so as a pro.

TheOgre
03-24-2005, 10:40 AM
I really hope you and Mr. McClain (who is this guy - sorry, I'm British) are wrong.

John McClain is a local sports writer for our paper (The Houston Chronicle). He covers the entire NFL. At times he has been insightful and at other times he has been downright wrong. One area that he HAS BEEN reliable is forecasting who we would draft. He has accurately predicted the position and player we would draft all 3 years. He also said (months before it was announced) that Boselli would never play again.

I tend to think he has great inside information rather than being the next coming of Nostradamus. He thinks we will go for a WR and have Troy Williamson tagged. Again he is 3 for 3. The streak could end this year. I'm just not going to count on it.

cadahnic
03-24-2005, 10:43 AM
I like to compare him to Donte Stallworth, but you are right Reggie was likely not the best guy to figure into the equation. I dont care about DL cause that can be addressed later, but every thing in this draft can be addressed later. This draft has the most depth than most drafts just not a lot of top-tier talent.

infantrycak
03-24-2005, 10:47 AM
I've never seen Williamson in action. Has anybody ? If so lets have some testimony about his hands, ability to run pass routes, toughness after making a reception and hanging on to the ball when getting hit, etc.

I haven't personally seen him. Here is his prospect profile from NFL.com which I generally like better than a lot of the hundreds of sites run by draftniks motivated enough to create a page to copy each other:

Positives: Tall, long-limbed athlete with a good frame that can carry additional weight Has long, toned arms, good bubble and very good flexibility and knee bend Hard worker, the type that will fight for the ball Shows suddenness and acceleration getting into his routes and has the size and strength to bust through the jam Can drop his weight and accelerate out of his breaks Shows very good double-cut ability Can find the soft spot in the zone and adjust readily to man coverage Does a good job of finding the sideline and adjusting to keep his feet in bounds Has the quickness to come back for the ball Has a smooth open-field stride and that second gear needed to race past defenders after the catch Has the flexibility and body control to adjust to the ball in the air Gets good hand placement and moves well to either his left or right Gets in and out of his breaks with some fluidness and uses his size to his advantage in jump-ball situations.

Negatives: Will position block to seal off, but lacks aggression and is not the type who will use his strength to shock and control the defender Has very good speed, but is a bit of a long strider rather than a receiver that has short quick feet Not as quick in short routes as the smaller receivers and is best when having space to operate Has adequate hands, but struggles to adjust to the over-the-shoulder tosses Can come back for the ball, but does not show great stop-and-go action (momentum sometimes takes him out of the play, as he overruns the ball) Sometimes takes soft angles, especially on upfield routes.

Link (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/williamson_troy)

LBblitz
03-24-2005, 10:53 AM
The Preacher took the words out of my mouth. Gaff, bradford, or armstrong (whoever is #2). we need to uprgrade to Oline and deffense.

cadahnic
03-24-2005, 11:00 AM
blitz you are right on target. I have seen alot of mocks and done a lot of scouting for my job. It is crazy how much film you have to watch to make games and do sports management. Anyway I like D. Ware and Carlos Rogers. I also see a definate opportunity for the Texans to trade up to 8 or 9 to grab DJ if he is available. I know alot of people are like DJ is the ST of this draft but we never had a chance at getting him without giving out to much.

wags
03-24-2005, 12:07 PM
I've never seen Williamson in action. Has anybody ? If so lets have some testimony about his hands, ability to run pass routes, toughness after making a reception and hanging on to the ball when getting hit, etc.

I saw him play two games this year. I remember him busting a long one against Georgia this year. It wasn't a long bomb, it was just a short slant that he ran over the middle and the guy was gone. I remember he caught it and just burned all the way to the endzone. I was yelling somebody tackle that $%&*#$%!!!! The thing about Williamson is that he had possibly the worst quarterback I have ever seen throwing to him. I can't imagine he had many perfect balls thrown to him or deep balls thrown to him, because the SC quarterback is an option QB with no passing skills.

I don't want to comment on his hands or anything, but if this guy catches it on the run: SEE YA LATER.

Grid
03-24-2005, 05:50 PM
a good comparison for Williamson is Corey Bradford. Fast.. but unreliable.

the only difference is that he wont be as good as Corey Bradford in his first season.. and will demand more cap space in the future.



Why do people get so obssesed with receivers? You would think that we have a strong passing offense the way people drool over receivers on this board. we are building a running team :P.. we are building a team with a strong defense, a dominant running game... and a pass threat just to keep people from focusing on our rush.

But noooooo.. everyone wants another star WR. Its stupid. if we take Troy Williamson at #13. then we might as well stop worrying about defense and just make ourselves into the next pass happy offense in the AFC south. It has worked so well for the Colts after all :P..look at all those superbowl trophies.

royce1054
03-24-2005, 06:40 PM
Williamson is the best pick for us at #13. He will accomplish what we need to accomplish on the offensive side of the ball. They can correct some of his negatives... Dunta had some of the same problems last year. They corrected it and look at him now. I think all of you are being too hard of Williamson. I think Andre, Troy, and Jabbar would be a good base set for us.

I also think we should trade up and get Blackstock. All the mocks that i have seen have him 29-35.. but i know that Pittsburg needs to replace Kendrell Bell and also New England needs to replace Bruschi.

Reddevil63
03-24-2005, 06:40 PM
I was thinking Donte Stallworth (http://ww2.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/stallworth_donte.htm) from the same draft. SEC burner. Underclassman. Late riser after he ripped a 4.2 something at his pro day workout. Went #13 in the draft. Has been so-so as a pro.
Thats exactly who I think of when I hear talk about Williamson, something about this guy scares me into thinking he will be a bust.

D-ReK
03-24-2005, 06:52 PM
Dunta had some of the same problems last year.

Dunta had bad hands and ran bad routes in college :confused: I fail to see the correlation between Williamson's negatives and D-Rob's...

Porky
03-24-2005, 07:00 PM
a good comparison for Williamson is Corey Bradford. Fast.. but unreliable.

the only difference is that he wont be as good as Corey Bradford in his first season.. and will demand more cap space in the future.



Why do people get so obssesed with receivers? You would think that we have a strong passing offense the way people drool over receivers on this board. we are building a running team :P.. we are building a team with a strong defense, a dominant running game... and a pass threat just to keep people from focusing on our rush.

But noooooo.. everyone wants another star WR. Its stupid. if we take Troy Williamson at #13. then we might as well stop worrying about defense and just make ourselves into the next pass happy offense in the AFC south. It has worked so well for the Colts after all :P..look at all those superbowl trophies.


That's ridicoulous. We need the best players we can get. Period. If Troy is the best, I say add him. If you hadn't noticed, a good passing game can make the running game better, just as the opposite is true. Every piece enhances, (or subtracts) from the others. The Texans are building an offense that can play any sort of game needed. Just building a strong running game is fine, but what about those games where the defense let's us down. Do you want to have the ability to catch up or not? I hear they are very high on this kid, and compare him to Javon Walker. If we could pair Walker with AJ, I for one, would be very excited. This would help AJ, Carr, and DD tremendouely, and could really take our O to the next level. I am excited about the possibility.

Isn't it possible that the Texans scouts are better than us message board scouts. Let's let the pro's decide what is best. If over several years, it proves to be a failure, so be it. But, let's at least open our minds to the possibility that they know more than we do. :hmmm:

LikeABoss
03-24-2005, 08:34 PM
I'm all for drafting Williamson at #13 :thumbup

Grid
03-24-2005, 09:37 PM
Well when the pros decide what is best.. ill agree with them. in the meantime.. its my opinion versus your opinion.. and my opinion is that Williamson is not the best talent at #13.. and definatly not a need.

royce1054
03-24-2005, 09:58 PM
Well when the pros decide what is best.. ill agree with them. in the meantime.. its my opinion versus your opinion.. and my opinion is that Williamson is not the best talent at #13.. and definatly not a need.

Its only not a need if we dont resign Bradford. We dont have anyone else.

outofhnd
03-24-2005, 10:58 PM
Well Since we have had only 4 drafts and We had glaring needs all over the place. This year is our first real year where everyone has a different view of our needs for this years draft.

This is a good thing, Think about Tampa all those years. All those top picks and nothing to show for it. I think its a testament to our Staff all across the board.

In my opinion another burner is a waste. If we want a burner wed be cheaper to resign bradford. I think it would be a mistake considering it will take him a full year to grasp the playbook remember we run QB WR option routes where the WR and Carr have to be on the same page otherwise it is interception city.

So don't expect a colts like scoring effort if we do indeed draft this guy. Its atleast a year or two away.

cptnbreakdance
03-24-2005, 11:51 PM
there is a possibility that the Texans Scouts & Head Coach think Troy is more than just a burner, and I'm sure they have gotten Dunta's opinion about him, since he played with him and ran against him in practice, so there is a good chance the Texans know a little more about Williamson than we do.

blockhead83
03-25-2005, 01:37 AM
I agree with Grid on this one. If I were playing Madden, I'd take Williamson, sit back and watch massive scoring ensue. However, in the real world, selecting another receiver doesn't seem to address our biggest concerns, nor does it seem to match the mentality of our football team that Capers is trying to form. Capers wants a hard-nosed football team that can pound the ball on offense, and physically break the opposition on defense, a la the Steelers.

Now, I know if you look at the Steelers, they have (had) great receivers like Ward, Burress, and Randle El, however they also have a great offensive line. We do not. It seems to me we're getting the buggy before the horse if we get our wide outs before we get an offensive line that will allow us to throw them the ball.

If our guys think Williamson is the BPA at 13, so be it, I'll still be happy because I think he's an exciting player. If we can still address the o-line with later picks, or if we don't feel there's a lineman worth the pick then I can see us drafting another WR. I just feel like Williamson wouldn't be put to good use for a few seasons, he'd make a few grabs a game and otherwise collect dust.

I'd much rather see us go defense with our #13 pick. I'd be happy to see us take any of the stud LB's, CB's, or DE's. If there's not a OL worth the #13 pick, we should keep building the stifling defense Caper's teams need to succeed. RB would also make a fair choice if one of the top 3 fell to us. DD has durability concerns, and a stud back in our system could put up some great production.

royce1054
03-25-2005, 02:29 AM
I agree about with what was said about Dunta and Williamson. I am sure they are friends.. I know some people think impriving the defense is the way to go but from what i have seen alot in the past is that skilled positions are more likely to go in the 1st round. I agree that OL is a need but it wont come til 3rd or 4th round. I do think we need to replace Bradford. Sterling, Armstrong, and Gaffney are not the answer.. DL does need help but we can get one of top 10 ranked DE in the 3rd round. CB its a need but with sanders signing it makes it alot less of a need. Who ever we draft has 1 year to mature. LB i think we can trade up and get a good pass rusher in the 1st round. The rest of the positions i dont think i need to go over.

outofhnd
03-25-2005, 02:50 AM
Hmm maybe since Williamson wasnt really noticed till his pro day and combine, It could play to reason that the texans were hoping to get him as a late round steal, but because of how outstanding he was at the combine and pro day, now all these other teams are standing up and taking notice. I didnt even think about the fact Troy and Dunta were teammates

It will be Interesting to see what moves we make 30 days from now. Until then we should keep an eye out for who houston invites for a private workout. If they invite Williamson then Royce was right all along and as a defensive minded individual, I hope we get some Quality DL im wondering if Wisconsin's Hawthorne may be this years babin move back into round 1. He'd be a good guy to add as well. Then Maybe Bryant in the 3rd.

ARGH! why cant the draft be this weekend?

royce1054
03-25-2005, 07:09 PM
ARGH! why cant the draft be this weekend?

Thats would make me happy. I am going to be studyin in europe during the draft. Its gonna be a long weekend on draft day. I dont plan on missin it.

Texans32
03-25-2005, 07:19 PM
i would like to see the texans take Marcus Spears, Shaun Cody, or Erasmus James (in that order according to availability) and try to take a WR in the 2nd round, like Rosco Parish out of Miami for instance

royce1054
03-25-2005, 07:23 PM
i would like to see the texans take Marcus Spears, Shaun Cody, or Erasmus James (in that order according to availability) and try to take a WR in the 2nd round, like Rosco Parish out of Miami for instance

I think WR at #13 trade up to OLB at end of 1st round. By the way Parrish is slow as Molasses and cant be a #2 WR.

Texans32
03-25-2005, 07:25 PM
I think WR at #13 trade up to OLB at end of 1st round. By the way Parrish is slow as Molasses and cant be a #2 WR.
does anyone know what his 40 time was?

royce1054
03-25-2005, 07:28 PM
does anyone know what his 40 time was?

well i guess his times were better than i thought
Roscoe Parrish
WR
The people we talked to said Parrish did everything and more, including running routes, catching punts and speeding around as quick as two cats. He measured in at 5-9 and 170 pounds, did 10 reps, had a 10-5 long jump, a 36-inch vertical, ran 4.47 and 4.40 in his 40s (which compares favorably to his 4.43 time at the combine). He also had a 4.22 short shuttle, an 11.08 long shuttle and a 6.69 in the cone drill.

TexasJedi
03-25-2005, 07:31 PM
From the Miami Pro Day

The people we talked to said Parrish did everything and more, including running routes, catching punts and speeding around as quick as two cats. He measured in at 5-9 and 170 pounds, did 10 reps, had a 10-5 long jump, a 36-inch vertical, ran 4.47 and 4.40 in his 40s (which compares favorably to his 4.43 time at the combine). He also had a 4.22 short shuttle, an 11.08 long shuttle and a 6.69 in the cone drill.

NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts#miami)

Texans32
03-25-2005, 07:31 PM
does anyone know what his 40 time was?
He ran a 4.43 in the 40 which isin't that bad, he doesn't have AJ type speed or anything, but he's not slow. Plus, with him and AJ playing alongside in college, that would make for some pretty good chemistry

royce1054
03-25-2005, 07:36 PM
He ran a 4.43 in the 40 which isin't that bad, he doesn't have AJ type speed or anything, but he's not slow. Plus, with him and AJ playing alongside in college, that would make for some pretty good chemistry

still makes more since to go after Williamson or Clayton then trade up for OLB. Then in 3rd round draft CB and DE.

Texans32
03-25-2005, 07:43 PM
still makes more since to go after Williamson or Clayton then trade up for OLB. Then in 3rd round draft CB and DE.
I just really like Spears and S. Cody for our D-line.I think Gary Walker is on the downhill of his career and we're eventually gonna have to find a replacement, so why not get one of these guys who could even challenge him for the starting job this season and make a big impact.

royce1054
03-25-2005, 07:49 PM
I just really like Spears and S. Cody for our D-line.I think Gary Walker is on the downhill of his career and we're eventually gonna have to find a replacement, so why not get one of these guys who could even challenge him for the starting job this season and make a big impact.

they have invested too much money in their D-line to do that in the 1st round. Spears wont be there. Cody wont be drafted til the 20's. His stock has falling so far. We can get replacements in the 3rd round. You also have to remember we will have a complete different LB core. Its speed has been improved. I think it woll start to open up for the DE to get 1-1 pass rushes.

Texans32
03-25-2005, 07:52 PM
they have invested too much money in their D-line to do that in the 1st round. Spears wont be there. Cody wont be drafted til the 20's. His stock has falling so far. We can get replacements in the 3rd round. You also have to remember we will have a complete different LB core. Its speed has been improved. I think it woll start to open up for the DE to get 1-1 pass rushes.
i would be happy either way, we could get a good back-up/future starter in the 2nd or 3rd round, but i think if we get to 13 and Spears & Willamson are both available, we take Spears

royce1054
03-25-2005, 08:04 PM
i would be happy either way, we could get a good back-up/future starter in the 2nd or 3rd round, but i think if we get to 13 and Spears & Willamson are both available, we take Spears

I completely disagree. We do need a pass rusher but too much money is invested in the D-line this year to invest more this early. 3rd yes. Plus anyways Chargers will take him. merriman is only player i believe is higher on their board. If Williamson and Spears is availible

With the #13 pick the Houston Texans Select
Troy Williamson WR out of South Carolina

Texans32
03-25-2005, 08:12 PM
but who knows, the Texans could go a completly different direction with 13 instead of WR DL, we'll just have to wait till draft day to find out

Grid
03-25-2005, 11:27 PM
I completely disagree. We do need a pass rusher but too much money is invested in the D-line this year to invest more this early. 3rd yes.


Our Dline will be leaving soon. By the time that Spears starts getting expensive.. our expensive Dlinemen will have left the team. they are old.. they are injury prone.. we need youth on the Dline and we need it now.

that being said.. im not high on Spears and I think we could get a similar talent in the 2nd and 3rd.

ive already expained how I feel about Williamson.

Texans32
03-25-2005, 11:32 PM
i think we could trade down, pick up another 2nd round pick, and see if we could get shaun cody then pick up a WR in the 2nd

royce1054
03-26-2005, 12:56 AM
that being said.. im not high on Spears and I think we could get a similar talent in the 2nd and 3rd.

ive already expained how I feel about Williamson.

Well they way i see it Bill Swancutt, chris canty and Jovan Haye will all be there in 3rd round. Thats off my mocks... I do think 6 DE will go in the 1st round. 1 will go in 2nd. So there will be talent in that position in 3rd.

D-ReK
03-26-2005, 09:35 AM
Well they way i see it Bill Swancutt, chris canty and Jovan Haye will all be there in 3rd round. Thats off my mocks... I do think 6 DE will go in the 1st round. 1 will go in 2nd. So there will be talent in that position in 3rd.

Swancutt couldn't play DE for us, and he's been overly hyped since his Senior Bowl performance...

Canty will likely go in the 2nd, as early as San Diego's pick if they don't get Spears in the 1st...

Haye should be available in the 3rd, and we'd be wise to take a look at him...

royce1054
03-26-2005, 07:58 PM
Swancutt couldn't play DE for us, and he's been overly hyped since his Senior Bowl performance...

Canty will likely go in the 2nd, as early as San Diego's pick if they don't get Spears in the 1st...

Haye should be available in the 3rd, and we'd be wise to take a look at him...

Well San Diego draft board looks like this
1.Shawne Merriman
2 Marcus Spears
3. Troy Williamson.
4. Shaun Cody I might have his 1st name wrong i mean the 1 out of USC.
thats about it.

big sarge
03-27-2005, 02:47 AM
Remember guys and gals defense wins game and eventually championships. So I say draft Rodgers and look to fill the #2 wr spot in the 2nd or 3rd. Think like this. If we have glenn, robinson, and rodgers along with the other depth we have. Then we could have more defensive scoring or more chances on offense with a shorter field and that is why you shore up the defense first. Lets get real here people if you have a mixture of youth, talent, and speed on defense, then you have a solid foundation. Glenn will not play forever, and we need rodgers to fill that void and learn from him.

GOD!!
Family!!
Country!!
Texans!!!

royce1054
03-27-2005, 03:21 AM
Remember guys and gals defense wins game and eventually championships. So I say draft Rodgers and look to fill the #2 wr spot in the 2nd or 3rd. Think like this. If we have glenn, robinson, and rodgers along with the other depth we have. Then we could have more defensive scoring or more chances on offense with a shorter field and that is why you shore up the defense first. Lets get real here people if you have a mixture of youth, talent, and speed on defense, then you have a solid foundation. Glenn will not play forever, and we need rodgers to fill that void and learn from him.

GOD!!
Family!!
Country!!
Texans!!!

Rodgers could be a good pick. You have to think of the voids you have 1st and deal with depth 2nd. As of right now really only 1 positiion is up for grabs. We can add some good depth in the CB position in the 2nd or 3rd round. I still think we could move up into late 1st round and slect an OLB, or a CB (my opinion)... there is some good talent in this draft. It seems to me that their really isnt a stand out but the quality is there. We could get Williamson or Clayton... or we can wait til 2nd round hope Gibson or Brown if they are there. We could go Pac-man (if there), carlos Rodgers, justin Miller or we could wait til 2nd round and go after a Eric Green, possibly a brandon Browner if he falls, Bryant McFadden, Marlin Johnson. We could also draft a channing crowder or wait until 2nd round and go after Darryl Blackstock or odell thurman, Kevin Burnett, or even Demarcus Ware.

What i am getting at is at all the positions i have just named i think other than Pac-man they are almost all even with the member of their position. It could go either way. To me we fill the void 1st. Find the WR to stretch field. Take the double team away from Andre Johnson. Then we see about a trade up to either get depth or find the player that might make a Antwan Peek sit or push a DeMarcus Faggins back to the dime or find that corner that might just get a learning year for next year.

edo783
03-27-2005, 12:17 PM
JMO, but I would like the first two picks to go:

1. C. Rogers or J. Miller

2. Castillo or Bass

After these it's just trying to fill depth and trying to find a diamond IMO. A WR is a need, but not as immediate as the DL or OL and a replacement for Glenn. I am sure someone will say "We can find (fill in the position here) in later rounds and we should pick ......and of course we can, but it's MUCH harder and less likely to find a top CB after the first round. This years draft has 4 CBs who can/will be able to start, Rolle, Jones, Rogers and Miller in that order for quality. (I might be persuaded to change Jones and Rogers spots around). I doubt Rolle or Jones makes it to 13, but Rogers MIGHT and Miller will. As far as the lineman selections with the 2nd pick, I might take Bass before Castillo just because I think our O-line is sicker than the D-line and it takes longer for an NFL quality O-lineman to develope and Bass has the potential to address one of the two sickest Oline positions in Center and/or RG.

royce1054
03-27-2005, 02:52 PM
JMO, but I would like the first two picks to go:

1. C. Rogers or J. Miller

2. Castillo or Bass

After these it's just trying to fill depth and trying to find a diamond IMO. A WR is a need, but not as immediate as the DL or OL and a replacement for Glenn. I am sure someone will say "We can find (fill in the position here) in later rounds and we should pick ......and of course we can, but it's MUCH harder and less likely to find a top CB after the first round. This years draft has 4 CBs who can/will be able to start, Rolle, Jones, Rogers and Miller in that order for quality. (I might be persuaded to change Jones and Rogers spots around). I doubt Rolle or Jones makes it to 13, but Rogers MIGHT and Miller will. As far as the lineman selections with the 2nd pick, I might take Bass before Castillo just because I think our O-line is sicker than the D-line and it takes longer for an NFL quality O-lineman to develope and Bass has the potential to address one of the two sickest Oline positions in Center and/or RG.

Ok i can see you missed what i was saying.
WR it is a need. You dont understand what it will be like without a good #2 WR. This is one of our biggest needs.
CB it is a need maybe 2nd or 3rd round pick but its just depth.. trying to find some 1 that we can groom to gleens backup. We can either do that or wait til next year and go 1st round CB
OL will prob be a 4th round selection
DE we can add depth in 3rd round.
OLB we can trade our #2 and maybe a #3 or sharper and get a good pass rusher at the end of 1st round.

TexansTrueFan
03-27-2005, 03:37 PM
yeah we do need another WR with some speed to help take some of the attention off johnnson. i think that would also help out our running game !

Wolf
03-27-2005, 04:00 PM
i'd like to see if alexander can do the job for us at WR ...instead of a high pick WR
somehow I'd be very pleased if we worked out something like this
1) lb---ware
2)c-- Bass
3) cb--corey webster


or
1)cb--pac man or rogers
2)LB--crowder or blackstock
3)c---wilkerson

I agree that we need another #2 WR.. but Carr needs a pocket to throw from and a healthy TE..

royce1054
03-27-2005, 06:34 PM
Demarcus Ware will be there at the 28 and up area. We can easily get Williamson and then trade up to get A Demarcus Ware, Kevin Burnett, or Darryl Blackstock
obcourse this is a trade invloving Shaper and a #2 which to me equals a late 1st round early 2nd pick.

3rd round we can go CB with 1st pick and DE/OL with 2nd pick.

Beastlyman2003
03-27-2005, 07:56 PM
im not high on Spears and I think we could get a similar talent in the 2nd and 3rd.



Grid, FYI, there is nobody in this years crop with anywhere close to Marcus Spears level talent. He has the perfect body type, to play DE in our scheme, and hes quick and strong. nobody has his ability, especially not in the second or third round. :thumbdown

D-ReK
03-27-2005, 08:24 PM
Grid, FYI, there is nobody in this years crop with anywhere close to Marcus Spears level talent. He has the perfect body type, to play DE in our scheme, and hes quick and strong. nobody has his ability, especially not in the second or third round. :thumbdown

What about Chris Canty? He and Spears are very similar, but Canty has an injury issue...Canty also has experience in a 3-4...

texasguy346
03-27-2005, 08:31 PM
What about Chris Canty? He and Spears are very similar, but Canty has an injury issue...Canty also has experience in a 3-4...

I haven't seen Canty play that much so I can't really compare the two. However, everytime I see Spears play he reminds me alot of a Richard Seymour with more size and strength or perhaps a Reggie White but with less pass rushing ability. I would love to see him drafted by the Texans, but it's appearing less and less likely as the draft approaches. Canty might be in the same realm, but I can't really speak to it. I'm sure someone who's watched him more at Virginia could give you a fair evaluation.

beerlover
03-27-2005, 11:44 PM
someone besides McClain is going to have to convince me that Troy Williamson is the best option with the 13th pick, I'm still not convinced. just because he has the measureables, size/speed for a WR does'nt mean he has the mental mindset. for instance why would he not stay in school & try to have a great senior year in Steve Spurrier's offense be the #1 WR rather than go pro early as 3rd best & out of the top 10?

also there are some really good WR prospects available latter both 2nd & 3rd rd's who could surprise and compete for the 2nd spot with the Texans :hmmm:

Vinny
03-27-2005, 11:47 PM
I've thought the same thing but after thinking about it I'd probably rather be in the NFL as a millionare than play another year of College ball and risking tearing up my knees myself. If he is picked in the first round like he is projected that would be the right move for him.

wags
03-27-2005, 11:49 PM
The one question I have about Williamson is what does he bring thats different? Bradford was a burner and did not take double teams away from AJ. So what does Williamson do that would take those double teams away?

Panther5407
03-27-2005, 11:51 PM
I've thought the same thing but after thinking about it I'd probably rather be in the NFL as a millionare than play another year of College ball and risking tearing up my knees myself. If he is picked in the first round like he is projected that would be the right move for him.

Ya but what if you tore up your knees early in your career and dont have a degree to fall back on. I guess you could always go back to school but I would finish my college career first. On the other hand I wouldnt fight for extra years coughJasonWhitecough.

Vinny
03-27-2005, 11:52 PM
The one question I have about Williamson is what does he bring thats different? Bradford was a burner and did not take double teams away from AJ. So what does Williamson do that would take those double teams away?Bradford was never graded out nor was ever valued like a top-15 pick either. Williamson tore up the College skills competition like nobody since Javon Walker did.

Vinny
03-27-2005, 11:54 PM
Ya but what if you tore up your knees early in your career and dont have a degree to fall back on. I guess you could always go back to school but I would finish my college career first. On the other hand I wouldnt fight for extra years coughJasonWhitecough.I did pretty well without a degree and I never singed a million dollar rookie contract. I think he would be able to get by.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-27-2005, 11:58 PM
Bradford was never graded out nor was ever valued like a top-15 pick either. Williamson tore up the College skills competition like nobody since Javon Walker did.





Didn't Williamson win the best hands competition? That alone separates him from Bradford. :heh:

Panther5407
03-27-2005, 11:59 PM
I did pretty well without a degree and I never singed a million dollar rookie contract. I think he would be able to get by.

Ok true, but are all of these guys smart enough to get by without a degree? Thats what I think about all the NBA rookies strait out of high school with exceptions to people like Tracy, KG, Kobe and James but I still think that degree is going to be very valuable for you no matter what.

Vinny
03-28-2005, 12:00 AM
I'd chunk my last decades salary for a few million. I know it doesn't go as far as it used to...but the money is quite sizeable.

Panther5407
03-28-2005, 12:02 AM
Well i guess I don't have to worry about it though, not like I'll make it to the NFL so I don't need to decide to leave A&M early or not.

Vinny
03-28-2005, 12:03 AM
Heck, I left College for a 50k a year job (about two decades ago). I'd hate to hear what you guys would say about that move.

nunusguy
03-28-2005, 08:24 AM
Grid, FYI, there is nobody in this years crop with anywhere close to Marcus Spears level talent. He has the perfect body type, to play DE in our scheme, and hes quick and strong. nobody has his ability, especially not in the second or third round. :thumbdown
Coming out of college Seth Payne was drafted in the 4th round, Gary Walker in the 5th round, and Robiere Smith in the 6th round so when they say one
of the upside factors of the 3-4 is that teams are less likely to need to invest high draft picks in downlinemen its the truth.
The kind of natural athleticism that big men like Spears have is a trait that is more important and therefor in higher demand for 4-3 lineman than for their 3-4 counterparts.

beerlover
03-28-2005, 10:13 AM
I've thought the same thing but after thinking about it I'd probably rather be in the NFL as a millionare than play another year of College ball and risking tearing up my knees myself. If he is picked in the first round like he is projected that would be the right move for him.

tried to find some numbers, but I know the NFL has a rookie pool allocation for teams to use on draftee's which is why most are so heavily back loaded, but I'm sure the money is fairly substantial between a top 10 pick say #7 in this case and the #13 pick.

that being said (its all about the money thread) it seems like Troy was in the ideal situation to return to school and play for argueably one of the top offensive minds in College football in Steve Spurrier. now with his NFL experience and connections does not South Carloina become a football powerhouse?

another question I have was that end of season melt down where viloence erupted onto the field including fans, so maybe there are other issues that played into his decision.

best comp is Braylon Edwards look how much his stock soared by returning to school for his senior year, he went from late 1st round to possibly #1 overall ceratinly one of the top 5 picks in the draft, earned his degree and expereinced the whole college experience including the Rose Bowl :twocents:

texasguy346
03-28-2005, 10:29 AM
best comp is Braylon Edwards look how much his stock soared by returning to school for his senior year, he went from late 1st round to possibly #1 overall ceratinly one of the top 5 picks in the draft, earned his degree and expereinced the whole college experience including the Rose Bowl :twocents:

That's true, but it wasn't so much his added year of experience that rose his stock it was the fact that he wouldn't have to be in a draft with Larry Fitzgerald and Roy Williams. Edwards would've likely gone around the same time Mike Williams did if both were in the 2004 Draft. That would've meant the two would be competing with Reggie Williams to be the 3rd WR taken. Not to mention there were still WRs like Lee Evans and Micheal Clayton to compete with.

As far as Williamson leaving I'm sure he felt he stood a good chance to go early in this draft. I don't see how he could improve his stock that much more by staying one more season under Spurrier. As of right now he's almost assured of going in the top half of the first round, and even if he had a phenomenal season next year he'd still be in that same realm but maybe a few spots higher. It's true that Spurrier is known for his offense, but this next season will be Spurrier's first and it takes time for him to get his guys in place and to familiarize those players with his playbook. You might see an improvement in SC's offense next season, but I think it'll be his 2nd or 3rd season before Spurrier's offense really takes off.

beerlover
03-28-2005, 11:33 AM
That's true, but it wasn't so much his added year of experience that rose his stock it was the fact that he wouldn't have to be in a draft with Larry Fitzgerald and Roy Williams. Edwards would've likely gone around the same time Mike Williams did if both were in the 2004 Draft.

the point I failed to convey is that Edwards was no where close to Mike Williams in 2004 as possible draft prospects. Mike was a lock to go in the top 10. Braylon was considered a late 1st rounder. fast forward to 2005 and you can see the development Braylon made over his senior year, he stepped his game up especially when it counted the most and by most anaylsis is considered the best package of skills of all the WR's including Mike Williams in the 2005 draft.

he now compares favorably with Fitzgerald the top WR taken in 04. for Braylon staying in school was the right thing to do, I'm suggesting that it may/may not be the right decision for Troy Williamson & I wonder how much influence these guys agents influence College athletes.

but this article is reassuring- http://www.decagent.com/news/williamsont20041216.asp


bonus- http://www.pmvfx.com/video/DEC-sports/T_williamson.wmv

wags
03-28-2005, 11:57 AM
Nice video. I remember that TD catch he had against Georgia. What I didn't remember is who almost ran him down from the other side of the field. :shocked

D-ReK
03-28-2005, 11:59 AM
The one thing I noticed about that highlight video is that most of the highlights are against teams like USF and Vanderbilt and a lot of the plays, he's going up against much smaller CBs...He did have a few highlights against Georgia and Tennessee though...Good find beer dude...

cadahnic
03-28-2005, 12:21 PM
Williamson can get bodied by larger corners and it makes him run even sloppier routes. Why cant we take the kid from georgia in the second. Reggie Brown is the name and he will be the Anquan Boldin of this draft.

Blake
03-28-2005, 12:56 PM
I cant wait until we resign bradford, so we can focus on D again.

DJ, Merriman, Spears, or Davis, would be my choices.

cadahnic
03-28-2005, 12:58 PM
Hey dont rule out pollack or d. ware, or c. rodgers. But you are frickin right it is time for more Defense than some receiver.

Blake
03-28-2005, 01:30 PM
Hey dont rule out pollack or d. ware, or c. rodgers. But you are frickin right it is time for more Defense than some receiver.

I wouldnt rule out anyone on D, after who we picked last year. ;)

TheOgre
03-28-2005, 01:31 PM
Heck, I left College for a 50k a year job (about two decades ago). I'd hate to hear what you guys would say about that move.

Not necessarily the move I would have made, but it isn't my life. From the sound of it, the move worked out well for you. The thing I have learned about life is that we each have our own path.

I personally had the exact opposite situation. I got a degree but came out with bad grades (actually degree was in Partying) and a poor attitude in a depressed market. I eventually got motivated to go back to school and "did it right" the second time around.

I do think that a degree gives one more options in life than not having one. It isn't essential, but it does correlate to more money on the average.

Vinny
03-28-2005, 01:58 PM
Not everyone gets the type of job offer I received either (I bet I make/made more money than most of the degreed people who read this). A degree doesn't make you competent, intelligent nor does it give you a work ethic. Williamson has a better job offer than I had. Needless to say, I'd take the job.

D-ReK
03-28-2005, 01:59 PM
On the subject of Williamson leaving school early, don't you think it's a possibility that he wanted to leave before Spurrier took over because of the stigma against Spurrier receivers? Ike Hilliard, Reidel Anthony, and Jacquez Green are all Florida guys that came into the league with plenty of fanfare and none lived up to their potential...I think it possible Williamson wanted to distance himself from them so he wouldn't have the knock on him of being a "product of a system"...

Vinny
03-28-2005, 02:00 PM
I think he left because he will be an instant millionare and he doesn't have to risk an injury that could steal that.

TheOgre
03-28-2005, 02:02 PM
A degree doesn't make you competent, intelligent nor does it give you a work ethic. No doubt about that.

nunusguy
03-28-2005, 02:11 PM
I think he left because he will be an instant millionare and he doesn't have to risk an injury that could steal that.
"Seize the moment" is the operative phrase in this context, for their is no assurances it will be available to him tomorrow (figuratively speaking).
Roy Williams (the former Texas WR), had he come out in 2003 he was almost
guaranteed to be the #3 overall in the Draft, playing at home in Texas, and the #1 receiver on his team. Instead he stayed in school another year, was a much lower pick in the Draft, in tough competition to be the teams top receiver, and playing in a cold *** climate which is a long ways from his Texas roots.

Vinny
03-28-2005, 02:37 PM
Good for him. Perhaps he felt good about his life without the money in case of injury. Not all of us come from families with cash. Some of us put our instant $ to good use and would rather not chance it slipping away.

LikeABoss
03-28-2005, 03:43 PM
"Seize the moment" is the operative phrase in this context, for their is no assurances it will be available to him tomorrow (figuratively speaking).
Roy Williams (the former Texas WR), had he come out in 2003 he was almost
guaranteed to be the #3 overall in the Draft, playing at home in Texas, and the #1 receiver on his team. Instead he stayed in school another year, was a much lower pick in the Draft, in tough competition to be the teams top receiver, and playing in a cold *** climate which is a long ways from his Texas roots.

Don't the Detroit Lions play in a concealed doom with a retractable roof like the Houston Texans :whistle:

texasguy346
03-28-2005, 03:50 PM
I don't think their roof is retractable. From my understanding it's just a dome.

LikeABoss
03-28-2005, 03:57 PM
I don't think their roof is retractable. From my understanding it's just a dome.

Oh, I always thought Detroit had a retractable that they don't use because of the bad weather :confused:

texasguy346
03-28-2005, 04:02 PM
I don't think so. It has those glass walls on opposite ends of the stadium sort of like Minute Maid Park, but I've never heard it mentioned as having a retractable roof.

LikeABoss
03-28-2005, 04:22 PM
That was a great video Beerlover :thumbup

From the looks of it, not only can Williamson go deep but he'll also catch passes over the middle as well :thumbup

I think he would be the perfect compliment to Andre Johnson :cool:

nunusguy
03-28-2005, 08:14 PM
Oh, I always thought Detroit had a retractable that they don't use because of the bad weather :confused:
Well you're right he plays indoors whether or not the roof is retractable. I guess I was trying to say he had a chance to play and reside in his home region (Texas/the sunbelt) where the climate was what he'd been raised in and was accustomed to rather than live in a cold weather climate. Of course
one could argue that he could winter in Texas but be in Michigan in the summer and fall and avoid the horrendous summers and Hurricane season we have here on the Gulf Coast.
But his football career probably would have been better served here in Texas and Cass very likely would have taken him in '03 with the 3rd overall instead of AJ. He'd be making a lot more money, playing regularly before gobs
& gobs of his adoring UT fans, and not have to comptete with anyone as the
teams #1 receiver.

outofhnd
03-29-2005, 12:03 AM
It might be too much of a mental burden to learn the air it out offense in one year and hope the scouts are as high on him again next year. Just because alot of players leave for the draft early does not mean they are not getting a degree.

Emmitt Smith left early and he even got a degree from florida in 93 i believe. He just went back and took some classes in the offseason.

I don't think we go Burner Wideout i think we are momentarily obsessing over Willamson's abilities rather than looking at what i feel is realistically needed. We need depth at OL, DL, TE, possibly Secondary help. WR is not a major need, but I would like to add depth to in later rounds. My thought trade down and compile picks. Nothing Blue Chip at 13 but there will be steals later.

keyfro
03-29-2005, 12:14 AM
with all the quality recievers in the draft like terrence murphy, fred gibson, reggie brown, even matt jones i don't see the immidiate need for reciever...especially when you take in armstrong, starling, thomas, and gaffney's learning curves

beerlover
03-29-2005, 04:13 AM
troy williamson- http://www.pmvfx.com/video/DEC-sports/T_williamson.wmv such a positive response (from another thread) determined more Texans fans here might like to view what the consensous #1 draft pick looks like. this is not an endorsement of my beliefs of who the Texans SHOULD draft just trying to add some perspective, I'm just the messenger (famous last words).

royce1054
03-29-2005, 04:16 AM
lol that video.. he deserved to fall on that openin touchdown 4 showin off

royce1054
03-29-2005, 03:29 PM
troy williamson- http://www.pmvfx.com/video/DEC-sports/T_williamson.wmv such a positive response (from another thread) determined more Texans fans here might like to view what the consensous #1 draft pick looks like. this is not an endorsement of my beliefs of who the Texans SHOULD draft just trying to add some perspective, I'm just the messenger (famous last words).

Do you have any more on different players

beerlover
03-30-2005, 11:56 AM
Do you have any more on different players

this is a deep draft just not talent saturated/hyped at the top, I think the Texans will look @ drafting a RB somewhere in this draft because of this talented group (the fact they are evaulating Cedric Benson lends substance to upgrading this position).

here is a early second day back who reminds me alot of DD, may be on the short list of backs if available still in the 4th rd. Ryan Moats 5'-8 1/4" 210 lbs. 4.49/40 & lifted 225 lbs 19 reps

compare this to Domanick Davis measureables coming out of LSU 5'-9 3/8" 213 lbs. ran 4.58/40

for you Royce-

http://www.ryanmoats.com/index_flash.html