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thunderkyss
09-26-2010, 09:41 PM
Did a great job in run blocking today. Arian Foster was the first RB to go for over 100 yards against the boys, in 20 games.

At least that's what Joe Buck said.

It would be nice, if Ward or Slaton could read the blocks as well as Foster... the same holes are there, they just don't see them... in Wards defense, this is his first game.

Dwade
09-26-2010, 09:43 PM
Run blocking was good, but pass blocking was not. Too much pressure on Schaub.

m5kwatts
09-26-2010, 09:44 PM
I think the o-line blocks better for Arian. Slaton was stuffed immediately on both of his carries. My problem is is his dumb blank stare and passive nature. He just looks defeated. He has no confidence and he looks like he doesn't get the scheme. I don't blame the o-line for not having confidence in him. I think they know Arian will see things develop better and get up on the 2nd level better because they know Arian will know what to do with it.

Corrosion
09-26-2010, 09:55 PM
Thats what gets me about the outcome of todays game - It never seemed to me that the Cowpies were outplaying the Texans. The Texans were able to do pretty much what they wanted offensively (between the 20's) but they just couldnt make a play when they needed to .... They couldnt extend drives and couldnt punch it in when it counted while the Cowpies did ....

Im not concerned with the running game , as long as its Foster getting the touches at all .... Slaton on the other hand has looked lost every time he's stepped on the field this year be it returning kickoffs , running the ball or in the passing game ....

I am becoming concerned with the pass protection .... its been pretty shabby the past two games and with Brown being out 3 more weeks .... I dont expect it to get a whole lot better.


The Run defense has been fantastic thus far but they have to tighten up their coverage and get more pressure on the QB .....

Honoring Earl 34
09-26-2010, 09:55 PM
Did a great job in run blocking today. Arian Foster was the first RB to go for over 100 yards against the boys, in 20 games.

At least that's what Joe Buck said.

It would be nice, if Ward or Slaton could read the blocks as well as Foster... the same holes are there, they just don't see them... in Wards defense, this is his first game.

I think Slaton is looking for a hole to climb in .

Honoring Earl 34
09-26-2010, 09:58 PM
Thats what gets me about the outcome of todays game - It never seemed to me that the Cowpies were outplaying the Texans. The Texans were able to do pretty much what they wanted offensively (between the 20's) but they just couldnt make a play when they needed to .... They couldnt extend drives and couldnt punch it in when it counted while the Cowpies did ....

Im not concerned with the running game , as long as its Foster getting the touches at all .... Slaton on the other hand has looked lost every time he's stepped on the field this year be it returning kickoffs , running the ball or in the passing game ....

I am becoming concerned with the pass protection .... its been pretty shabby the past two games and with Brown being out 3 more weeks .... I dont expect it to get a whole lot better.


The Run defense has been fantastic thus far but they have to tighten up their coverage and get more pressure on the QB .....

I'm no expert but I thought they should have gone Foster and Daniels early and stay out of 3rd and long .

eriadoc
09-26-2010, 09:58 PM
I think the o-line blocks better for Arian.

Seriously? They all see Slaton coming into the huddle, wink at each other, smile, go out there and let their guys into the backfield, right?

SLATON SUCKS IN THIS SYSTEM. Get used to it. He has no patience, no vision, and no concept of how to be effective in this blocking scheme.

Corrosion
09-26-2010, 10:11 PM
I'm no expert but I thought they should have gone Foster and Daniels early and stay out of 3rd and long .

In hindsight I bet the coaching staff is thinking the same thing - Foster averaged 6.2 yards per carry on 17 carries .... with numbers like that you expect to see better results on the scoreboard.

Houston had an avg of 5.6 per carry for the game while Dallas was held to an avg of 3.7.



Sometimes the numbers dont tell the tale.

m5kwatts
09-26-2010, 10:31 PM
Seriously? They all see Slaton coming into the huddle, wink at each other, smile, go out there and let their guys into the backfield, right?

SLATON SUCKS IN THIS SYSTEM. Get used to it. He has no patience, no vision, and no concept of how to be effective in this blocking scheme.

I think the more confidence an o-line has in the back the better they block yes. When they know Slaton can't see the 2nd level blocks develop it takes the wind out of you and you block worse. Arian sees these holes. Its my best explanation for why when Slaton comes in our o-line gets bowled over and he gets stuffed for negative yards. Sure this happened to Foster too but he also found the second level on other runs. Slaton can't find that second level of the defense. So yes, I think the o-line runs our ZBS better when they know Foster, the more competent back is in the game.

Cjeremy635
09-26-2010, 10:33 PM
Yes, the O-line has looked pretty good when running the ball, but they've taken a HUGE step back this season with pass blocking. Shaub is getting the piss knocked out of him on a regular basis this season. A few of the sacks have been his fault, but most of them are from poor blocking or missed assignments.
This is the WORST game I can remember Winston having. He got his ass handed to him today and when you get your name called that much as a lineman, that is never a good sign. I can't put the blame on him though, this whole team came out flat today and just couldn't get inspired to save their lives. Hopefully they can get this thing together soon and fix whatever is broken.
Again...for the record...it's not the fact that we lost a game. I never once thought that we would go undefeated this season. It's the way that we failed to show up and the glaring holes in our defense that scare the crap out of me. How can you come out flat? How can you have your hands on your hips, dragging ass, (I'm lookin' at you defense!) after having only played 2 minutes of football? There are so many questions about this game and team that it's gonna take me a little bit to sqaure my thoughts.
I remember the quotes this week from our players:
"Why does it have to be about the Cowboys? This is about the Texans"- Ryans
"We're not who we used to be."- Williams
This is who they used to be. A team that plays great and then doesn't show up to the game the next week. I'm not taking anything away from Dallas. That team has talent, as much as it pains me to say it, but that's no excuse for us to play like we did today. If their "goal" is the playoffs and ultimately the super bowl, you better expect to beat the "good" teams on the way to the dance and then once you get there. This team needs to learn to show up to every game and play with heart every game. If they lose, playing their asses off, I'll applaud the shit out of them. If they get their asses handed to them, playing like shit as they did today, I'll be bitter until the next Sunday.
I'm done venting for now.....:gun:

hradhak
09-27-2010, 07:22 AM
There was a thread floating around about the Sandwich game. I think the Redskins victory was may have made this our sandwich game. We didn't seem to have any emotion playing out there.

I've heard from many different players that zone blocking is something running backs either get or just don't understand. You can be a good running back, but just not get the ZBS. I think Slaton falls into the latter. He has (or had) talent, but clearly Foster understands the system. I would also say that Foster has an innate ability to be make a negative run play into a huge gain. There are few other players that could do that, and I could make comparisons, but I think I need to see more before I can say those things.

TimeKiller
09-27-2010, 07:40 AM
The difference is right after a handoff, Foster takes it and doesn't hit the burst button until he sees the hole. He coasts a few steps behind his blockers and when the hole presents itself he is in position AND ready to lower his shoulder. He'll run his blockers all the way to the sideline if the hole never opens. Slaton takes it and runs like a crackhead 3 year old. BALL BOOM GO SHIT TACKLED. He tries to jam himself in between to guys instead of waiting for them to open a hole.

That said, he shouldn't be running up the gut. He should be the screen pass, check down guy on 3rd downs. Why is that such a mystery?

Mr teX
09-27-2010, 10:36 AM
Interested to hear Winston's show to see if he owns up to his screw ups & if he admits that spencer was in that ass all game.....

thunderkyss
09-27-2010, 10:48 AM
In hindsight I bet the coaching staff is thinking the same thing - Foster averaged 6.2 yards per carry on 17 carries .... with numbers like that you expect to see better results on the scoreboard.

Houston had an avg of 5.6 per carry for the game while Dallas was held to an avg of 3.7.



Sometimes the numbers dont tell the tale.

In hindsight?

You know I'm a Kubiak fan, but in hindsight? I haven't broken down the offensive plays, so I don't know if the blame goes on Matt, or our coaches. But even in Washington & Indy, he has had trouble connecting with our receivers in the middle of the field.... you know the area where LBs vacate when they blitz?

If we didn't include taking advantage of that in our game plan, or our half-time adjustments, then McNair needs to be kicking Kubiaks hindsight.

The1ApplePie
09-27-2010, 10:51 AM
Seriously? They all see Slaton coming into the huddle, wink at each other, smile, go out there and let their guys into the backfield, right?

SLATON SUCKS IN THIS SYSTEM. Get used to it. He has no patience, no vision, and no concept of how to be effective in this blocking scheme.

Didn't he put up 1800 combined yards his rookie season in this same scheme?

HOU-TEX
09-27-2010, 11:08 AM
That Oline blocking well in the run game becomes moot when they're getting penalized and getting Schaub sacked in the redzone. And yes, Winston had a very bad day yesterday

drewmar74
09-27-2010, 11:12 AM
I didn't get to see the game so I'm going off of what I'm reading.... but based on that, it sounds like Butler had a better game than Winston did. Is that about the size of it or am I misreading posts here?

Rey
09-27-2010, 11:13 AM
SLATON SUCKS IN THIS SYSTEM. Get used to it. He has no patience, no vision, and no concept of how to be effective in this blocking scheme.

I agree.

But in defense of the system, it looks like he sucks overall.

thunderkyss
09-27-2010, 11:19 AM
I didn't get to see the game so I'm going off of what I'm reading.... but based on that, it sounds like Butler had a better game than Winston did. Is that about the size of it or am I misreading posts here?

That's about the size of it. Butler gave up two sacks, both were coverage sacks....... should be easily fixed, don't stop blocking until the whistle blows.

You wouldn't think you'd have to tell a pro that, but that was his first start.

I think he also had one false start.

Winston was getting beat badly (which really isn't anything new, unless you're an Eric Winston fan(which I'm not)), holding, false starting... everything.

drewmar74
09-27-2010, 11:22 AM
That's about the size of it. Butler gave up two sacks, both were coverage sacks....... should be easily fixed, don't stop blocking until the whistle blows.

You wouldn't think you'd have to tell a pro that, but that was his first start.

I think he also had one false start.

Winston was getting beat badly (which really isn't anything new, unless you're an Eric Winston fan(which I'm not)), holding, false starting... everything.

Thanks for the insight.

I was glad to not read a ton of posts on Butler. I took that as a good sign that he had played alright.

Rey
09-27-2010, 11:27 AM
I have not seen the O-line as being a big problem run blocking or pass blocking wise.

Schaub is the type of QB that has very minimal movement. He's about as stationary as they come. He normally holds onto the ball for a long time when he gets sacked.

Deangelo Hall made a comment about Matt before we played them. He said that Matt looks like he doesn't even look at the rush. He said that he just disregards it and keeps his head up field. Because of that Deangelo surmised that they'd be able to get pressure on him. I agree with Deangelo on this one thing.

And yes, there have been some missed assignments, but not all of them have been by the O-line. Foster has gotten beat and has blown some assignments in pass coverage too. I'm pretty sure a TE or two has it as well.

We've played some good teams with premiere edge rushers. Matt has taken some sacks. He is the type of QB who hangs in the pocket until the last second. He very, very seldom scrambles out of the pocket to try and make a throw down field. When he sees that someone is about to hit him he just falls and tries to lessen the impact.

It's a lot to ask of an O-line to block for a QB like that. Overall, they need to win more battles than they lose, but you are going to go up against defenses that will have good pass rushes; be it the scheme or the personnel. You cannot expect your line to win every battle every time. That's not even counting RB's and TE's and misreads by the receiver or QB.

That's why it helps to have a QB that is somewhat mobile. They can avoid some of the pressure and help their blockers out on the occasion when they do get beat.

I have not seen our O-line as looking porous. Overall they have blocked really well. At the same time though, I realize that we are going to take some sacks with a QB who isn't very mobile and doesn't always get the ball out quickly. Really not that hard to add those two combination's together and realize that.

Corrosion
09-27-2010, 11:28 AM
Seriously? They all see Slaton coming into the huddle, wink at each other, smile, go out there and let their guys into the backfield, right?

SLATON SUCKS IN THIS SYSTEM. Get used to it. He has no patience, no vision, and no concept of how to be effective in this blocking scheme.

Slaton has sucked at everything he's been asked to do - horrible returning kicks , some of the most boneheaded plays imaginable from him in that department. How many times has he muffed the catch so far ?

He hasnt caught the ball well - You could probably chalk up the final INT to him rather than Schaub.

He hasnt run the ball well at all despite there being holes and lanes available for him.

I dont think he's played as fast as he has in the past either , gaining weight seems to have taken away both his speed and elusiveness.

Looks like he's damaged goods and I doubt he can make the team playing like this out of camp next season

Rey
09-27-2010, 11:32 AM
You wouldn't think you'd have to tell a pro that, but that was his first start.


Yeah..

Butler hasn't played in a live regular season game since he's been here has he?

If he did, I missed it.

But that said, as a player who has gotten most of their reps on the practice field, you kind of get used to that timing. In practice you're used to the plays actually going as planned. You're used to the QB getting rid of the ball on time. Even in one on one pass blocking drills you're used to only blocking the guy for a certain amount of time until the coach blows the whistle.

Like you said, I think that is easily correctable and I think Butler is only going to get better.

After this past game, I wouldn't say Duane Brown should be worried as much as Eric Winston should be though.

BigBull17
09-27-2010, 11:36 AM
That's about the size of it. Butler gave up two sacks, both were coverage sacks....... should be easily fixed, don't stop blocking until the whistle blows.

You wouldn't think you'd have to tell a pro that, but that was his first start.

I think he also had one false start.

Winston was getting beat badly (which really isn't anything new, unless you're an Eric Winston fan(which I'm not)), holding, false starting... everything.



I didn't get to see the game so I'm going off of what I'm reading.... but based on that, it sounds like Butler had a better game than Winston did. Is that about the size of it or am I misreading posts here?

The one sack was on Schaub. You have to know a tackle is gonna run a guy past you and that you can't scramble to that side. Winston got beat like he stole something. It was pathetic. If his feet are that bad, move em to guard.

drewmar74
09-27-2010, 11:45 AM
After this past game, I wouldn't say Duane Brown should be worried as much as Eric Winston should be though.

Brown - Caldwell - Meyers - Winston - Butler

??

Rey
09-27-2010, 11:50 AM
Brown - Caldwell - Meyers - Winston - Butler

??

Caldwell won't be a starter until he can uproot Briesel...

And Wade Smith is playing pretty good right now.

I was thinking more:

Brown - Smith - Meyers - Briesel - Butler

eriadoc
09-27-2010, 11:55 AM
Caldwell won't be a starter until he can uproot Briesel...

And Wade Smith is playing pretty good right now.

I was thinking more:

Brown - Smith - Meyers - Briesel - Butler

I agree. Wade Smith is the overlooked key to the 4th and 10 TD to AJ vs. the Skins, by the way.

thunderkyss
09-27-2010, 11:59 AM
Caldwell won't be a starter until he can uproot Briesel...

And Wade Smith is playing pretty good right now.

I was thinking more:

Brown - Smith - Meyers - Briesel - Butler

Much better

BigBull17
09-27-2010, 01:16 PM
Much better

Damn. Guess Winston becomes the blocking tight end...?

Rey
09-27-2010, 01:17 PM
Damn. Guess Winston becomes the blocking tight end...?

That, the swing tackle, or the guy we just let go to test the market when his contract is up.

Norg
09-27-2010, 01:21 PM
Alot of the Schaub sacks was becasue Schaub held on to the ball wayyyy to long

i know schaub does not run around alot but during thoes big time plays hes got to run around and by some time

during the first half i though our o line played decent its more Scahubs Fault IMO he didnt make the plays Plain and simple

hradhak
09-27-2010, 01:23 PM
I thought this year Winston had played well up until this last game. Yesterday though, he played awful. If he continues to play like this, we're going to need someone else. I wouldn't mind having Butler at the RT and keep Winston at the swing tackle.

drewmar74
09-27-2010, 01:41 PM
Caldwell won't be a starter until he can uproot Briesel...

And Wade Smith is playing pretty good right now.

I was thinking more:

Brown - Smith - Meyers - Briesel - Butler

Sorry, you're correct. Monday morning brain fart.

I could live with that arrangement.

beerlover
09-27-2010, 01:43 PM
The Oline seems fine between the 20's its inside the red zone that concerns me.

badboy
09-27-2010, 01:51 PM
Interested to hear Winston's show to see if he owns up to his screw ups & if he admits that spencer was in that ass all game.....He said after the Washington game he had a bad one. Now he has had two in a row.

Rey
09-27-2010, 01:57 PM
He said after the Washington game he had a bad one. Now he has had two in a row.

Seems like more and more teams are either moving their best pass rusher all around the field, or they have multiple players who excel at getting pressure. *

Winston has got to be almost as good as the LT protection wise. He's a mart dude...Hopefully he can get it corrected and get back to playing good ball...

* can you imagine if the Colts scheme was more active and they moved Freeney, Mathis and Hughes around all over the place? They'd be much harder to pass protect against.

Mr teX
09-27-2010, 02:53 PM
winston isn't going anywhere but it would be nice to explore what butler can do on the right side & kick winston inside.

devo-x
09-27-2010, 03:14 PM
What about this combination?

Butler - Smith - Meyers - Caldwell - Winston (Brown = Swing T)

Wolf6151
09-27-2010, 05:53 PM
How about this combo:

Butler - Smith - Caldwell - Winston - Brown

I think Butler is faster than Brown, Caldwell is bigger and stronger than Myers, Winston would be a better OG than RT due to short arms and slow feet, and Brown would be a better RT than Winston due to longer arms and better feet and speed. It might take some time for them to get comfortable in their new positions but I think this would be the best starting lineup.

Rey
09-27-2010, 05:55 PM
How about this combo:

Butler - Smith - Caldwell - Winston - Brown

I think Butler is faster than Brown, Caldwell is bigger and stronger than Myers, Winston would be a better OG than RT due to short arms and slow feet, and Brown would be a better RT than Winston due to longer arms and better feet and speed. It might take some time for them to get comfortable in their new positions but I think this would be the best starting lineup.

So the only person you're leaving in their spot is Smith?

We'd be terrible. We'd have no continuity..No chemistry

Wolf6151
09-27-2010, 06:53 PM
So the only person you're leaving in their spot is Smith?

We'd be terrible. We'd have no continuity..No chemistry


I didn't mean to imply that this would be a mid season change, I'm thinking about next year. They'd have OTA's, training camp, and preseason games to get used to their new positions. Plus the only one that would have a difficult change would be Brown switching from the left side to the right side.

Speedy
09-27-2010, 06:54 PM
I don't know if this had much to do with Butler being in there but the Texans only ran 5 times to his side for just 10 yards. Even at the goal line they didn't run to his side. Might they have had Brown been in?

Of course, as successful as they were running the ball (Foster 6.2 per touch), I'm a little lost as to why they didn't run more. If something's working, stick with it 'til they stop it. The run game was working very well and they only run 22 times.

As long as Kubiak has been here, he's always talking about how much he wants to run. Well, you can now so do it already.

Rey
09-27-2010, 07:08 PM
I didn't mean to imply that this would be a mid season change, I'm thinking about next year. They'd have OTA's, training camp, and preseason games to get used to their new positions. Plus the only one that would have a difficult change would be Brown switching from the left side to the right side.

Yeah, If they were going to do that I'd rather them try it out in the off-season.