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View Full Version : The Texans needs to be working out more kickers


Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 01:09 PM
Okay, I don't want to go through this ridiculous debacle all over again to where it effects the over all season like it did last year. Rackers was obviously not a complete replacement for Brown, since Kubes can't even trust him to hit a 53 yarder when the game is possibly on the line. We obviously didn't fix any of these kicker problems if we can't even trust the guy to hit a FG like that in OT.

So go find one. Keep looking. Go try out some more kickers and bring another one on this roster with some potential. At least get someone that will get Rackers practicing like crazy to get better and to keep his job. Last season Kubes made a big mistake by not working out other kickers and got complacent with Brown and it cost us the playoffs. That could happen all over again for all we know and we could be in the playoffs possibly this time in a position to win, but possibly lose if we don't have a guy who can nail it for us when we're in scoring position. Kickers are a very important position on any football team despite what people think. They have a very strong effect on the outcomes of games every single week in this league and we need a guy that we can trust. We're not one of these bottom feeder teams anymore to where it isn't that big of a deal. We are a big time team that can potentially beat anyone on any field and way to many games will come down to the wire where your kicker has to put the nail in the coffin and we need a guy who can be consistent and can do that. We need a guy that we can trust.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 01:16 PM
While I agree that the Texans should always be looking to upgrade I totally disagree with the "since Kubes can't even trust him to hit a 53 yarder" comment. Anything over 45 yards is not a "gimme" for any kicker in the league. If he misses, do you really want McNabb starting from the 43 yard line??? HELL NO!!!

It would've been dumb to gamble there. I wish Turk would've gotten off a better punt and been able to pin them inside the 20, but regardless, the Texans netted 23 yards by punting.

Allstar
09-22-2010, 01:17 PM
No matter what kicker we had out there, Kubiak would have punted. It was the wind that made his decision. He just had a 'gut feeling' with the wind. There is no possible way that we will go look for a new kicker right after the competition in camp. IMO, it's ridiculous to even suggest it.

Dutchrudder
09-22-2010, 01:17 PM
How about Shayne Graham?

Dutchrudder
09-22-2010, 01:18 PM
While I agree that the Texans should always be looking to upgrade I totally disagree with the "since Kubes can't even trust him to hit a 53 yarder" comment. Anything over 45 yards is not a "gimme" for any kicker in the league. If he misses, do you really want McNabb starting from the 43 yard line??? HELL NO!!!

It would've been dumb to gamble there. I wish Turk would've gotten off a better punt and been able to pin them inside the 20, but regardless, the Texans netted 23 yards by punting.

It was actually from the 34, but the delay of game after the decision to punt made it the 39. Net of 14 yards at best, but enough to make the Redskin's FG attempt too far for their guy.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 01:19 PM
Shayne Graham is only 9 of 18 from beyond 50.
Adam Vinatieri is 10 of 22

Rackers 19 of 39


I'm not a betting man, but I know enough to not like those odds.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 01:20 PM
It was actually from the 34, but the delay of game after the decision to punt made it the 39. Net of 14 yards at best, but enough to make the Redskin's FG attempt too far for their guy.

Ball is spotted at the hold, not the LOS on a missed FG attempt (unless it was inside the 20).

53 yard attempt, the ball would be spotted at the 43.

dc_txtech
09-22-2010, 01:20 PM
Rackers is 5/18 from 50+ over the last 4 seasons. Do you really want him lining up to kick a 53 yarder? When we went with Neil over Kris, we took accuracy over distance. I was praying that Kubes didn't trot Rackers out there to kick a 53 yard FG.

Double Barrel
09-22-2010, 01:22 PM
While I agree that the Texans should always be looking to upgrade I totally disagree with the "since Kubes can't even trust him to hit a 53 yarder" comment. Anything over 45 yards is not a "gimme" for any kicker in the league. If he misses, do you really want McNabb starting from the 43 yard line??? HELL NO!!!

It would've been dumb to gamble there. I wish Turk would've gotten off a better punt and been able to pin them inside the 20, but regardless, the Texans netted 23 yards by punting.

I tend to agree with this. Heck, the Redskins kicker was 50% from 52 yards, so it's certainly not an easy kick.

Besides, our defense would've held if not for that bonehead penalty. So Kubiak's strategy was sound in relying on the defense. You can't coach to anticipate stupid penalties.

My gut reaction at the time was to kick, but I quickly realized the folly when we punted. People would be asking for Kubiak's head if they had tried and missed and gave the Redskins that field position. Look how short the field was for us when we got the ball back. It's a dangerous decision, and I don't mind being a little conservative and putting your defense on notice.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 01:23 PM
No matter what kicker we had out there, Kubiak would have punted. It was the wind that made his decision. He just had a 'gut feeling' with the wind. There is no possible way that we will go look for a new kicker right after the competition in camp. IMO, it's ridiculous to even suggest it.

It's ridiculous to even suggest it? What the hell are you smoking? We can't even trust our guy to win a game for us. Did you watch the Texans last season when we put to much trust into Brown? How well did that work? Oh, that's right it cost us to miss the playoffs. Do you think that Rackers is this great kicker right now after he missed a 47 yarder as well? Did you forget about that one? You don't get complacent just because you signed a guy. You make sure that he is the guy, and Rackers may not be. I want to see a guy that the coach has confidence in. There are way to many games that come down to FG's in the NFL as to who wins or loses.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 01:23 PM
Rackers is 5/18 from 50+ over the last 4 seasons. Do you really want him lining up to kick a 53 yarder? When we went with Neil over Kris, we took accuracy over distance. I was praying that Kubes didn't trot Rackers out there to kick a 53 yard FG.

19 of 39 for his career.

HardKnockTexan
09-22-2010, 01:23 PM
Rackers made the kick we needed to win the game. Plus, on kickoffs, he continually puts the ball 5 yards deep into the endzone. Lets have a reason to want to replace our kicker before calling for his head.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 01:25 PM
Shayne Graham is only 9 of 18 from beyond 50.
Adam Vinatieri is 10 of 22

Rackers 19 of 39


I'm not a betting man, but I know enough to not like those odds.

The funny part is Kris Brown is actually over 50% from 50 yards. (18 of 33)

Dutchrudder
09-22-2010, 01:26 PM
Ball is spotted at the hold, not the LOS on a missed FG attempt (unless it was inside the 20).

53 yard attempt, the ball would be spotted at the 43.

I was talking about the punt. The punt essentially netted 14 yards by going from the 34 to the 20. The FG is a whole other story, but Rackers did miss a 47 yard FG earlier in the game, so a ~49 is not necessarily a gimme. Personally, I think they should have gone for it on 4th and 4.

Rey
09-22-2010, 01:27 PM
Rackers kicking a 50+ yard FG into the wind in overtime.....Do not want....

If they can find a kicker out there that they think is better than Rackers...Bring him in and evaluate him...

But with the whole kicking competition thing during the off-season, I think it would be kind of foolish to bring in an unproven kicker to replace Rackers...That means the whole kicker competition thing, and putting them in "pressure" situations was a waste of time and really didn't even matter...

Not sure I want just some random kicker off the street coming in...If they were to do that I'd be shocked...

If they were to do that, they'd be putting a lot of faith in that kicker because the second he misses a crucial kick Kubiak and Smith would be lambasted...

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 01:29 PM
I was talking about the punt. The punt essentially netted 14 yards by going from the 34 to the 20. The FG is a whole other story, but Rackers did miss a 47 yard FG earlier in the game, so a ~44 is not necessarily a gimme. Personally, I think they should have gone for it on 4th and 4.

Your missing my point. If we would've kicked and missed the ball would've been spotted at the 43 - that's the 23 yard net I'm referring to.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 01:29 PM
My gut reaction at the time was to kick, but I quickly realized the folly when we punted. People would be asking for Kubiak's head if they had tried and missed and gave the Redskins that field position. Look how short the field was for us when we got the ball back. It's a dangerous decision, and I don't mind being a little conservative and putting your defense on notice.

I would agree with this if our secondary hadn't been getting toasted all game long, but I've seen Mcnabb go down the field and win big games at the end of a game to many times to want to trust our young secondary against a vet like that who routinely made comebacks for years with the Eagles garbage WR's that they had for a long time.

It worked out in that game obviously, but going forward I don't want to have to trust a young secondary in a situation like that when it might be against the Colts the next time around when you know Manning is going down the field and scoring. We need a guy that can put a game away. Kris Brown was that guy for many years and I had a lot of faith in him. Hell, I was at the game where he kicked like 5 FG's or something like that and the game winning one a few years ago. We need a guy that we can rely on. Not just a guy that can we can strut out there for 35 yarders and extra points.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 01:31 PM
Rackers kicking a 50+ yard FG into the wind in overtime.....Do not want....

If they can find a kicker out there that they think is better than Rackers...Bring him in and evaluate him...

But with the whole kicking competition thing during the off-season, I think it would be kind of foolish to bring in an unproven kicker to replace Rackers...That means the whole kicker competition thing, and putting them in "pressure" situations was a waste of time and really didn't even matter...

Not sure I want just some random kicker off the street coming in...If they were to do that I'd be shocked...

If they were to do that, they'd be putting a lot of faith in that kicker because the second he misses a crucial kick Kubiak and Smith would be lambasted...

I'll bet donuts to dollars, they won't find a kicker with a much better career average than Rackers as it relates to 50+ yarders.

HOU-TEX
09-22-2010, 01:32 PM
We've got Schaub's backside protector out 4 games, our secondary's giving up 400 burgers on a weekly basis and we're worried about the freakin kicker? Maybe it's just me, but we've got more important issues to deal with. IMO, a stopgap kicker can be found easy if Rackers ends up going mental

We need to be working out tackles, if anyone. If Salaam has to play we're doomed

Dutchrudder
09-22-2010, 01:32 PM
Your missing my point. If we would've kicked and missed the ball would've been spotted at the 43 - that's the 23 yard net I'm referring to.

Oh, gotcha. Nvm then...

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 01:32 PM
I would agree with this if our secondary hadn't been getting toasted all game long, but I've seen Mcnabb go down the field and win big games at the end of a game to many times to want to trust our young secondary against a vet like that who routinely made comebacks for years with the Eagles garbage WR's that they had for a long time.

It worked out in that game obviously, but going forward I don't want to have to trust a young secondary in a situation like that when it might be against the Colts the next time around when you know Manning is going down the field and scoring. We need a guy that can put a game away. Kris Brown was that guy for many years and I had a lot of faith in him. Hell, I was at the game where he kicked like 5 FG's or something like that and the game winning one a few years ago. We need a guy that we can rely on. Not just a guy that can we can strut out there for 35 yarders and extra points.

That's all you need if your offense is kicking ass! ;)

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 01:34 PM
But with the whole kicking competition thing during the off-season, I think it would be kind of foolish to bring in an unproven kicker to replace Rackers...That means the whole kicker competition thing, and putting them in "pressure" situations was a waste of time and really didn't even matter...



I'm not saying to just bring a guy in and have him replace Rackers right away. I'm saying to bring some guys in and try them out and possibly put one on the roster if they can show some skills good enough to possibly become an asset this year if Rackers continues to struggle. You never know. We might be able to find that one young guy in the making that becomes a great kicker for many years. Last season Kubes refused to bring in any new kickers to try out and put all of his faith in Brown and that cost us the playoffs. I don't want to put all the faith in Rackers when he missed a 47 yard FG and we can't trust him to hit a 52 yard one either. That doesn't sit well with me going forward, because we're going to play plenty of teams who might have kickers that will hit those.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 01:34 PM
We've got Schaub's backside protector out 4 games, our secondary's giving up 400 burgers on a weekly basis and we're worried about the freakin kicker? Maybe it's just me, but we've got more important issues to deal with. IMO, a stopgap kicker can be found easy if Rackers ends up going mental

We need to be working out tackles, if anyone. If Salaam has to play we're doomed

:goodpost: Is Brad Hopkins out there? Better yet, get Bruce to suit up!! :runaway:

Rey
09-22-2010, 01:35 PM
I would agree with this if our secondary hadn't been getting toasted all game long, but I've seen Mcnabb go down the field and win big games at the end of a game to many times to want to trust our young secondary against a vet like that who routinely made comebacks for years with the Eagles garbage WR's that they had for a long time.

That's true...

However like DB said there were other factors to consider...

You can't just look at the negatives of what he did and say it was a bad decision...

You have to look at all the factors that went into it...

At the time our defense was doing a good job against their offense...No way we could have made that kind of comeback without some help defensively...

In the fourth quarter we tightened up a little bit and started holding them to field goal attempts and punts...

Kubiak said that he felt his defense had the hot hand and if they had been able to pin them deep with that punt he didn't even think they'd be able to get range to attempt a field goal...

Well, the punt wasn't good, and the defense was still able to hold them to a long field goal attempt...

Kubiak was right.

TexansFanatic
09-22-2010, 01:36 PM
Simply put: great kickers are extremely rare.

Decent kickers are abundant.

Good kickers are fairly common.

Great kickers are rare.

It's a shame Kris Brown became a head case. I was more comfortable with his long attempts than I was with the shorter ones.

dc_txtech
09-22-2010, 01:37 PM
19 of 39 for his career.

Which would mean he was 14/21 his first 6 years in the league with a long of 55. I wonder what happened that left him unable to kick from 50+?

Rey
09-22-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm not saying to just bring a guy in and have him replace Rackers right away. I'm saying to bring some guys in and try them out and possibly put one on the roster if they can show some skills good enough to possibly become an asset this year if Rackers continues to struggle.

I am not really opposed to that...

But who are you going to cut for that to happen?

If you did that, you'd essentially have to cut four people within the next four weeks...

One person when Cushing comes back, Anthony Hill gets off of pup, Salaam probably goes when Brown comes back...And then you'd have to cut someone to give this extra kicker a spot...

I just don't see that happening...You'd probably have to let go of some good depth to bring in a guy who may or may not even play....

Kubes barely likes to carry three QB's....I can't see him bringing in an extra kicker...

I dunno if Kickers can be put on Practice Squad...I don't think they'd do that either though...

Dutchrudder
09-22-2010, 01:44 PM
@ Rey ^

Danny Clark will be the one to get cut when Cushing comes back.

If Hill comes back, I would imagine he will take over long snapping duties, so the LS might be cut.

Salaam is gone after Brown comes back.

No room for a kicker that I can see, unless they sign him to the PS.

Rey
09-22-2010, 01:45 PM
@ Rey ^

Danny Clark will be the one to get cut when Cushing comes back.

If Hill comes back, I would imagine he will take over long snapping duties, so the LS might be cut.

Salaam is gone after Brown comes back.

No room for a kicker that I can see, unless they sign him to the PS.

Danny Clark was cut a long time ago.

They might cut the Dixon kid...But he looks like he has some potential and he looks like he can help on special teams right now...

I agree that Salaam is probably gone...

And I can't see them cutting the Long snapper when Hill comes back...

I really think Molden will be lucky to be on the roster after all the smoke has cleared in a couple of weeks...I think he or Jamaar Wall may be cut...

Dutchrudder
09-22-2010, 01:47 PM
Danny Clark was cut a long time ago.

So he was...

Probably Bing or Nixon then.

Rey
09-22-2010, 01:50 PM
So he was...

Probably Bing or Nixon then.

Bing is on IR...

I added to my post and I listed Nixon as a possibility...

I don't know if he has PS eligibility....

If Adibi can stay healthy then Nixon probably will be cut...They look like the same kind of player, but Nixon seems like he's a better pass rusher...

Ole Miss Texan
09-22-2010, 01:51 PM
I'm not too worried about it, particularly the reasoning being that Kubiak didn't let Rackers attempt that 53 yarder in overtime. Only 1 FG over 50 yards has been made at Fed Ex Field in the last 3 years (and it was 51 yards).

eriadoc
09-22-2010, 01:53 PM
Look, the Texans essentially traded distance for accuracy, and they got a better ST player as a bonus. Sure, KB could go out there for 53 yards and you know he had the leg, but a miss is a miss, and it doesn't matter if it's wide left into the stands or short a couple yards. A miss is a miss.

Just accept the fact that we have a more accurate kicker that isn't going to attempt too many 50+ yarders. If Rackers only hits 75% of his FGs from less than 50, then the whole experiment was a failure. But if he hits 85%+, then you traded distance for accuracy.

HOU-TEX
09-22-2010, 01:59 PM
:goodpost: Is Brad Hopkins out there? Better yet, get Bruce to suit up!! :runaway:

I'd take either one over Salaam. Turk could be a better option too. Hell, I'd suit you up before Salaam.

dc_txtech
09-22-2010, 02:02 PM
Edit: double post

Allstar
09-22-2010, 02:03 PM
It's ridiculous to even suggest it? What the hell are you smoking? We can't even trust our guy to win a game for us. Did you watch the Texans last season when we put to much trust into Brown? How well did that work? Oh, that's right it cost us to miss the playoffs. Do you think that Rackers is this great kicker right now after he missed a 47 yarder as well? Did you forget about that one? You don't get complacent just because you signed a guy. You make sure that he is the guy, and Rackers may not be. I want to see a guy that the coach has confidence in. There are way to many games that come down to FG's in the NFL as to who wins or loses.

It's ridiculous because we just had a long 'hard fought' battle between Brown and Rackers throughout camp. If there is one position that I don't want to affect the psyche of, it's the kicker. Their job is all about mindset and going through the same motions. Hell, why do you think coaches 'ice' the kickers? It's because the kicking game mental.

If we bring in competition and Rackers still wins the battle, do you honestly think it still wouldn't affect him? If I have to worry about losing my job every time I kick, I would probably perform differently. Even if we got a new kicker, do you think he'd feel very safe after knowing he's the third kicker on the roster in the last month?

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 02:51 PM
It's ridiculous because we just had a long 'hard fought' battle between Brown and Rackers throughout camp. If there is one position that I don't want to affect the psyche of, it's the kicker. Their job is all about mindset and going through the same motions. Hell, why do you think coaches 'ice' the kickers? It's because the kicking game mental.

If we bring in competition and Rackers still wins the battle, do you honestly think it still wouldn't affect him? If I have to worry about losing my job every time I kick, I would probably perform differently. Even if we got a new kicker, do you think he'd feel very safe after knowing he's the third kicker on the roster in the last month?


I think there is relevance to what you're saying and all, but these kickers should be used to that by now. Rackers has been kicking probably all throughout HS and college, and if he can't handle a kicking competition, then he's probably not the right guy for the job any way. It's not like he was already the guy here. He came in and took that guy's position, so he should have some confidence from that. I just don't want to be to complacent with kickers and I've always thought that kickers are pretty important unlike many other people. They determine the outcomes of games all of the time and have determined SB's in the past. We took this position lightly last season as far as how much it could effect our season and we missed the playoffs by under looking it.

Mr teX
09-22-2010, 02:52 PM
1) Rackers had already missed a 47 yarder early in the game

2) Rackers isn't exactly nails in clutch situations. Sure, the GB debacle from last year is fresh in everyone's minds, but he also missed a game winner in the cardinal monday night game where Denny Green let off his now infamous "they are who we thought they were" rant. He's got the choke in him.

3) rackers barely hit a 50 yarder in Preseason against the Saints.....indoors at that. He just doesn't have the leg.

I was fine with kube's decision b/c at that point our defense was playing quite well & if not for Smith's brain fart they likely don't even get the shot at the fg that they got.

infantrycak
09-22-2010, 03:02 PM
3) rackers barely hit a 50 yarder in Preseason against the Saints.....indoors at that. He just doesn't have the leg.

I liked Kubiak's decision to punt, but Rackers does have the leg. Half time of the last preseason game he hit one easily from 62-63 yds. Not saying he'd have a high percentage but that day he hit from 52, 57 and then 62 in a row although clearly it was practice rather than actual game kicks.

Mr teX
09-22-2010, 03:09 PM
I liked Kubiak's decision to punt, but Rackers does have the leg. Half time of the last preseason game he hit one easily from 62-63 yds. Not saying he'd have a high percentage but that day he hit from 52, 57 and then 62 in a row although clearly it was practice rather than actual game kicks.

Key word "halftime"....i.e. no one in front of them trying to block it & no pressure....most of those guys are kickoff specialist as well so the raw power is there. but when you've got to get into 1 & keep your accuracy with all the other factors involved, As we know, its usually a different story when the lights are on.

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 03:10 PM
I'm not saying to just bring a guy in and have him replace Rackers right away. I'm saying to bring some guys in and try them out and possibly put one on the roster if they can show some skills good enough to possibly become an asset this year if Rackers continues to struggle. You never know. We might be able to find that one young guy in the making that becomes a great kicker for many years. Last season Kubes refused to bring in any new kickers to try out and put all of his faith in Brown and that cost us the playoffs. I don't want to put all the faith in Rackers when he missed a 47 yard FG and we can't trust him to hit a 52 yard one either. That doesn't sit well with me going forward, because we're going to play plenty of teams who might have kickers that will hit those.

We don't know that for sure.

Smith brings in guys to try out every Tuesday. And with our wonderful reporting staff covering the Texans, we rarely hear about it. He may have brought in a kicker or two last year. He may bring in a kicker this year.

BUT... with Rackers we have one of the better kickers in the league. He's not a guy that kicks long field goals. If you want him, you lose some of those longer field goals that we would sometimes get with Kris Brown but otoh, we get fewer missed kicks from closer in.

I'm in the boat of being perfectly fine with the punt in that situation. I would have preferred us to rely more on Arian during that series. I think he could have ground out a couple of first downs for us and gotten much closer to field goal range. But in the position we were in, I was fine with punting.

If we should bring anyone in, it's a new punter. You can't kick into the end zone in that situation.

infantrycak
09-22-2010, 03:19 PM
Folks are really overplaying this Rackers can't hit long thing:

Rackers 19 of 39, 48.7% from over 50 yds.
Brown 18 of 33, 54.5% from over 50 yds.

So he has the leg but is marginally less accurate long. But then again he is almost 10% more accurate from 40-49 yes.

Key word "halftime"....i.e. no one in front of them trying to block it & no pressure....most of those guys are kickoff specialist as well so the raw power is there. but when you've got to get into 1 & keep your accuracy with all the other factors involved, As we know, its usually a different story when the lights are on.

Believe I mentioned it was practice. In any event, being in the game doesn't make their legs weaker it makes their aim more shaky.

buddyboy
09-22-2010, 03:22 PM
Let's just make a robot who kicks 100% from anywhere on the field. Problem solved.

Grams
09-22-2010, 03:31 PM
I am lost here.

You want to replace the kicker that WON the game in OT for us.
The kick did not go wide right or wide left or hit the upright and bounced away. It went through the middle of the uprights and we WON the game.

We WON the game on the field goal.

You want to crucify him because the Coach decided not to have him try one from 53 yards?

The man had been sick during the week passing kidney stones, probably didn't get in as much practice and may have been a just a tad weak.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 03:31 PM
Let's just make a robot who kicks 100% from anywhere on the field. Problem solved.

Yes, I like that idea. :goodpost:

Make him like the guy on IROBOT.

utahmark
09-22-2010, 03:34 PM
with 10 years of game film and all of training camp I think I might lose some confidence in the coaching staff if they just now realized what type of kicker they went out and got. He actually just made the game winning kick. Finding a replacement kicker should be the last thing on anyone's mind.

El Tejano
09-22-2010, 03:35 PM
Does anyone recall that in the game, Ian Eagle mentioned that Neil Rackers passed a kidney stone last Saturday? He was listed on the injury report as having an illness. I think this may have had something to do with it.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 03:39 PM
I am lost here.

You want to replace the kicker that WON the game in OT for us.
The kick did not go wide right or wide left or hit the upright and bounced away. It went through the middle of the uprights and we WON the game.

We WON the game on the field goal.

You want to crucify him because the Coach decided not to have him try one from 53 yards?

The man had been sick during the week passing kidney stones, probably didn't get in as much practice and may have been a just a tad weak.

You need to learn to read posts, before responding to stuff that was never said or suggested.

I started this thread saying we needed to bring more kickers in TO TRY OUT. I never said, hey lets get a new kicker in here right now and whomever kicks the best takes Rackers spot immediately. I never said to replace Brown last year immediately either when he first started to struggle, but you can bet that I wanted other kickers to be looked at and possibly put on the team.

And what's funny is I heard these exact same things last season when some of us were suggesting to bring in some new kickers to try out and put on the roster possibly and people said NO WAY, we don't have the roster spots and we couldn't afford to do that. We ended up losing a playoff spot because of the lack of action though. I don't want to see something like that happen again, I'll learn from the mistakes of the past. I won't be okay with possibly repeating them.

Mr teX
09-22-2010, 03:47 PM
Folks are really overplaying this Rackers can't hit long thing:

Rackers 19 of 39, 48.7% from over 50 yds.
Brown 18 of 33, 54.5% from over 50 yds.

So he has the leg but is marginally less accurate long. But then again he is almost 10% more accurate from 40-49 yes.



Believe I mentioned it was practice. In any event, being in the game doesn't make their legs weaker it makes their aim more shaky.

Not what i'm insinuating. What i meant about him not having the leg was him not being able to boom it 50 plus & keep his great accuaracy......like most kickers for that matter. Besides, most kickers sacrifice 1 or the other depending on which they worry about the most.

Grams
09-22-2010, 03:53 PM
If you want to bring in kickers to try out, then you dont like the kicker we have. Is that not the same as replacing the one we have????

Jeff S.
09-22-2010, 04:14 PM
I started this thread saying we needed to bring more kickers in TO TRY OUT.

You've based your entire argument on the assumption that Rackers is "having trouble". He had, what, one miss in regulation and then hit the game winner? Since when did it become a requirement that guys hit 60% of 50+ yard FGs? Sitting around wishing for a guy like that is like us wishing we had a safety like Ed Reed. Those guys are rare because they're the best.

So, sorry, I can't get on board with the idea that Rackers is a problem. If he starts missing 40-yarders consistently, then yeah. But until then we've got lots more to worry about.

I was about to throw the TV out into the yard when Kubiak punted, but in retrospect it's clear it was the right decision. And one other thing: just because he made the decision doesn't mean he was happy about it, but he still made it.

Rey
09-22-2010, 04:21 PM
You've based your entire argument on the assumption that Rackers is "having trouble". He had, what, one miss in regulation and then hit the game winner? Since when did it become a requirement that guys hit 60% of 50+ yard FGs? Sitting around wishing for a guy like that is like us wishing we had a safety like Ed Reed. Those guys are rare because they're the best.

So, sorry, I can't get on board with the idea that Rackers is a problem. If he starts missing 40-yarders consistently, then yeah. But until then we've got lots more to worry about.

Good post...Good points...

infantrycak
09-22-2010, 04:22 PM
For more perspective, in 4 more seasons Vinatieri has tried 17 less kicks over 50 yards and has made a lower % of those at 45.5.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 04:24 PM
You've based your entire argument on the assumption that Rackers is "having trouble". He had, what, one miss in regulation and then hit the game winner? Since when did it become a requirement that guys hit 60% of 50+ yard FGs? Sitting around wishing for a guy like that is like us wishing we had a safety like Ed Reed. Those guys are rare because they're the best.

So, sorry, I can't get on board with the idea that Rackers is a problem. If he starts missing 40-yarders consistently, then yeah. But until then we've got lots more to worry about.

I was about to throw the TV out into the yard when Kubiak punted, but in retrospect it's clear it was the right decision. And one other thing: just because he made the decision doesn't mean he was happy about it, but he still made it.

I find it pretty silly that so many people say that they wanted to throw the remote at the wall or what not because they hated the decision by Kubes, but all because it worked in that particular game everything is fine. To me that is a big flip flop. You either were for it or you weren't. Waiting to see what happened afterward to make your call on that is silly to me, because if the Redskins would have gone right down the field and won that game I feel like you would have been bashing Kubes at that point then. But since it worked he's a genius for it. I don't get behind that. Be decisive about what you think is right in a game. Sometimes teams get lucky and win despite bad decisions, but that will never be the majority of the time. I stand by my thoughts that Kubes should have gone for it regardless of what happened after the fact. On the road when your defense isn't playing well, you go for the win in my opinion.

Yeah, I want a kicker who the coach can trust to hit a 50 yarder in OT. That's what I want. I've seen enough football over the years to know that there will be a ton of games where games come down to what team can hit those important FG's at the end of it. I already watched this team miss the playoffs last season because everyone ignored the problems that Brown was having and said the same stuff you're saying now.

And one more time so some don't get confused. I'm not suggesting that the Texans cut Rackers. Never said that once. I'm not even totally suggesting that Rackers is a problem really. My problem is that if the HC doesn't feel confident in him at the end of a game for a 50 yarder, then look for someone else that you will have confidence in. Maybe you find him, maybe you don't, but I'd like to have a guy on the roster or ready to go that can go in there and make those big kicks if Rackers continues to miss and we're in situations where Kubes is afraid to use him to win a game.

infantrycak
09-22-2010, 04:30 PM
I find it pretty silly that so many people say that they wanted to throw the remote at the wall or what not because they hated the decision by Kubes, but all because it worked in that particular game everything is fine. To me that is a big flip flop. You either were for it or you weren't. Waiting to see what happened afterward to make your call on that is silly to me, because if the Redskins would have gone right down the field and won that game I feel like you would have been bashing Kubes at that point then. But since it worked he's a genius for it. I don't get behind that. Be decisive about what you think is right in a game. Sometimes teams get lucky and win despite bad decisions, but that will never be the majority of the time. I stand by my thoughts that Kubes should have gone for it regardless of what happened after the fact. On the road when your defense isn't playing well, you go for the win in my opinion.

I disagree with your conclusion on the punt but generally agree with the above statements that coaching shouldn't be decided in hindsight. Of course that applies to negative plays as well. Chris Brown tosses a TD last year and basically nobody claims it was a bad coaching decision.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 04:35 PM
I disagree with your conclusion on the punt but generally agree with the above statements that coaching shouldn't be decided in hindsight. Of course that applies to negative plays as well. Chris Brown tosses a TD last year and basically nobody claims it was a bad coaching decision.

I would have totally said that, because all year I said that Brown had no business even being on our roster, much less being in the game at important times. He never showed anything on this team, and Kubes refused to acknowledge it. I hated Having Chris Brown here and had just as much of a problem with him getting GL carries at the end of those games as well that he messed up earlier on in the season.

I hear what you're saying though, and yeah I see a lot of people doing that in here all of the time. If you looked at the game day threads there were all sorts of people flaming the hell out of Kubes when he decided to punt, and were even talking about posting "fire Kubiak threads." Had the Skins won that game on their kick, I can guarantee you there would have been an uproar, but since we ended up winning most of those same people have no problem with it anymore. That's a flip flop where you decide what you like in hind sight. I just have my particular philosophy that you need to have a kicker that you can trust, and I'm probably in the minority but I feel like kickers are very important positions in football even if they only strut out on the field for a few times in a game. Those few times usually end up determining who wins or loses those close games. People like to make fun of kickers and act like they're a bunch of whimps and like they're not important, but they're very important.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 04:39 PM
Shayne Graham is only 9 of 18 from beyond 50.
Adam Vinatieri is 10 of 22

Rackers 19 of 39


I'm not a betting man, but I know enough to not like those odds.

The funny part is Kris Brown is actually over 50% from 50 yards. (18 of 33)

Folks are really overplaying this Rackers can't hit long thing:

Rackers 19 of 39, 48.7% from over 50 yds.
Brown 18 of 33, 54.5% from over 50 yds.

So he has the leg but is marginally less accurate long. But then again he is almost 10% more accurate from 40-49 yes.



Believe I mentioned it was practice. In any event, being in the game doesn't make their legs weaker it makes their aim more shaky.

For more perspective, in 4 more seasons Vinatieri has tried 17 less kicks over 50 yards and has made a lower % of those at 45.5.

CAK, that was all so page 1... ;)

Rey
09-22-2010, 04:43 PM
On the road when your defense isn't playing well, you go for the win in my opinion.

But at that time the defense was playing well...Kubes said he felt like his defense was hot and he was going to trust them..

Even with the bad punt, it worked...

Defense held them to a 50+ yard FG attempt. He was right.

ChrisG
09-22-2010, 04:45 PM
Rackers missed the first due to a shitty hold. It was almost completely sideways. I wouldn't have wanted Brown to try it from that distance,u miss an u lost due to field position

Sent from my DROIDX

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 04:48 PM
But at that time the defense was playing well...Kubes said he felt like his defense was hot and he was going to trust them..

Even with the bad punt, it worked...

Defense held them to a 50+ yard FG attempt. He was right.

You mentioned this earlier and that is relevant I'd say about the defense and how I said that I didn't trust our secondary that had gotten burned all day. They were playing better "at the time" of the game. I'll give you that. I still didn't trust them though and I wouldn't in the same situation again if the game was similar. I'd still want to go for the win. Just because we ended up okay in this game, doesn't mean the same result would happen in the next one. That's my philosophy when you have a young defense with a secondary like we have. I'd still want to put my trust in Rackers to win it if I chose him to be my guy. We could trust Brown for years and I liked having him a lot until last season. Again, kickers are important players to me. They decide games all of the time.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 04:51 PM
http://www.centersinaianimalhospital.com/images/dog_chasing_tail.gif

Jeff S.
09-22-2010, 04:57 PM
I find it pretty silly that so many people say that they wanted to throw the remote at the wall or what not because they hated the decision by Kubes, but all because it worked in that particular game everything is fine. To me that is a big flip flop.

Nope. I wanted to throw my remote at the time, but I was wrong. The reason I was wrong is NOT because it worked out OK, but because I didn't know all the factors: Rackers' health, his practice kicks before the game, his lifetime avg for 50+yd kicks. I was also mistaken about where the spot would be (I was still thinking it was LOS).

All the kickers with a big leg and a proven record were already signed. So by definition the guys you would bring in to try out are going to be unproven. And then you're gambling on a guy with little or no experience, unless you're talking about keeping two kickers and that ain't happening.

There's no free lunch.

gary
09-22-2010, 05:13 PM
The Skins won the game so the D did not hold them on the one drive Gary saved the game by calling time.

wagonhed
09-22-2010, 05:41 PM
Worst idea ever.

Our kicker is fine, Kubiak made the right choice, that shouldn't even be up for debate.

Serious overreacting.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 05:47 PM
In a related subjecy, I heard Cowboys kicker David Buehler missed 4 FG's in practice today, all inside 40. Kris Brown may be in Reliant this Sunday..... as a 'Gurl.

Thorn
09-22-2010, 06:22 PM
meh.....six of one half dozen of another.

We all know damn well no matter which kicker they kept we'd find a reason to *****.

imatexan
09-22-2010, 06:44 PM
So our kicker just hit the game winning FG on OT on the road and you want us to work out more kickers!?
:backsout:

Last time I checked he also has not missed a FG in the first two games, this was not about Rackers as a kicker not being able to make the kick. It was a coaching decision that Kubiak would have made, whoever our kicker was.

JB
09-22-2010, 06:50 PM
So our kicker just hit the game winning FG on OT on the road and you want us to work out more kickers!?
:backsout:

Last time I checked he also has not missed a FG in the first two games, this was not about Rackers as a kicker not being able to make the kick. It was a coaching decision that Kubiak would have made, whoever our kicker was.

He missed his first try in the 'skins game... a 47 yarder.

GP
09-22-2010, 07:06 PM
I've always said that if you have to win the game on the leg of your kicker, and you ask him to nail a deep FG from beyond the 40-yard-line...then you can't whine when he misses.

I'd do away with ALL field goals, if it were up to me. I'd say make the opening kickoff a punt. It opens up an extra roster spot, too. No extra points, and no field goals. You gotta' go for 2 on every TD. The insanity of field goals is the only thing holding NFL back from being an even better professional sport.

How many titles are won or lost, how many playoff spots are won or lost, etc., because of a field goal kicker? It's brutal.

So I say this: If a guy is good from <50 yards, then he's OK as an NFL kicker. He's decent. He's good enough. Because it's a crap shoot after 50 yards. And that means your offense and defense didn't play a good enough game to make the outcome on its own shoulders and not on the leg of a kicker.

I don't cringe when Neil trots onto the field. If he misses, he isn't going to go Vince Young on us and start getting all depressed.

Speedy
09-22-2010, 07:11 PM
Rackers is 5/18 from 50+ over the last 4 seasons. Do you really want him lining up to kick a 53 yarder?

I didn't make it past this post, but I think this is the point of the original post. You are going to have to make 50+ yarders from time to time. If you don't have a guy that can do that (better than 5/18 at least) then you need to find one who can.

It worked out this time. It's kinda like the halfback pass. Had it worked, great call. If it doesn't, look out.

This is a game where there's always going to be second guessing, even if it works out in the end. The decision, under those circumstances, may have been the right one to make at that time, but at some point during this season you are going to need a 50+ yarder. And you need someone you can feel comfortable with to make that kick. If that's not Rackers, then he's not the guy.

Lucky
09-22-2010, 07:13 PM
Work out more kickers? If anything, the Texans need to workout more punters. Their love affair with Matt Turk is dumbfounding. He's not special in distance or placement. Turk should have had competition in camp.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 07:18 PM
Bring back Chad Stanley!!! *ducks punches*

:hides:

imatexan
09-22-2010, 08:46 PM
He missed his first try in the 'skins game... a 47 yarder.

Sorry I was on a plane the 1st half of the game but I still stand by what I say.

TimeKiller
09-22-2010, 08:53 PM
I'm just saying....this thread comes after he makes a game winning field goal and his only miss was a 47 yarder. We're not talking about trading for Vince Young because Matt Schaub threw an interception amidst his monster passing day.

sbalderrama
09-22-2010, 10:02 PM
Kubes also mentioned that the wind was against that kick in that direction and that kickoffs going that way had been coming up short for both kickers. So, your 53 yard field goal may have virtually been something more like 58.

Goldensilence
09-23-2010, 10:38 AM
Work out more kickers? If anything, the Texans need to workout more punters. Their love affair with Matt Turk is dumbfounding. He's not special in distance or placement. Turk should have had competition in camp.

That was my initial thought on seeing the thread as well.

Jeff S.
09-23-2010, 11:18 AM
Bring back Chad Stanley!!! *ducks punches*

:hides:

Er...for a moment there I thought you said Chuck Studley.

dc_txtech
09-23-2010, 12:40 PM
Folks are really overplaying this Rackers can't hit long thing:

Rackers 19 of 39, 48.7% from over 50 yds.
Brown 18 of 33, 54.5% from over 50 yds.

So he has the leg but is marginally less accurate long. But then again he is almost 10% more accurate from 40-49 yes.



Believe I mentioned it was practice. In any event, being in the game doesn't make their legs weaker it makes their aim more shaky.

Yes, but 5-18 over the last 4 seasons ~28%
Kris Brown was 9-14 over that timeframe ~ 64%

I don't know if he lost confidence or had an injury but something happened that caused Rackers to stop being successful from 50+. He was 14-21 in his first 6 seasons ~67%

I didn't make it past this post, but I think this is the point of the original post. You are going to have to make 50+ yarders from time to time. If you don't have a guy that can do that (better than 5/18 at least) then you need to find one who can.

It worked out this time. It's kinda like the halfback pass. Had it worked, great call. If it doesn't, look out.

This is a game where there's always going to be second guessing, even if it works out in the end. The decision, under those circumstances, may have been the right one to make at that time, but at some point during this season you are going to need a 50+ yarder. And you need someone you can feel comfortable with to make that kick. If that's not Rackers, then he's not the guy.

I respectfully disagree, the Cardinals won the division back to back years and went to a Super Bowl while only kicking 1 50+ yard FG over the course of 2 seasons.

Texan_Bill
09-23-2010, 12:41 PM
DIE thread, DIE!!! :strangle: :voodoo:

dc_txtech
09-23-2010, 12:54 PM
DIE thread, DIE!!! :strangle: :voodoo:

You shouldn't have posted, I'm pretty awesome at killing threads.:strangle:

Ole Miss Texan
09-23-2010, 12:59 PM
I think having a kicker that can kick it far is better when you have an average to below average offense. My theory, whether it's wrong or not, is that we have an elite offense and should easily be able to move the ball to inside the 30. Being on the 30 gives you a 47 yard FG attempt. If we start on our 20 yard line... that's only 50 yards to move (roughly 3 or 4 first downs).

If you're attempting a decent number of 50+ FGs in a year that means your offense isn't moving the ball as well as it should. We shouldn't have that problem. Move the ball as close as possible and have a RELIABLE and ACCURATE kicker... that's the recipe for a Championship!!

HOU-TEX
09-23-2010, 01:14 PM
DIE thread, DIE!!! :strangle: :voodoo:

"We need a kicker, not a belly-itcher"

Texan_Bill
09-23-2010, 01:16 PM
"We need a kicker, not a belly-itcher"

How about Ron Dayne? He kicked the shit out of Charles Spencer!! :heh:

HOU-TEX
09-23-2010, 01:19 PM
How about Ron Dayne? He kicked the shit out of Charles Spencer!! :heh:

Dude? That's it! I'm going to get the Dumpster after you

Texan_Bill
09-23-2010, 01:20 PM
Dude? That's it! I'm going to get the Dumpster after you

:lol:

Goldensilence
09-23-2010, 04:04 PM
How about Ron Dayne? He kicked the shit out of Charles Spencer!! :heh:

I thought he fell into him?

I don't think Ron Dayne could get his leg high enough to kick anyway.

drs23
09-23-2010, 04:20 PM
Runaway thread:jogger: