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JWarren14
09-21-2010, 05:46 PM
Way to break some momentum!

Butler best get his game face on.

disaacks3
09-21-2010, 05:49 PM
#$$%%^%$^%$$#%$# - great, now we're down one Offense and one Defense for TWO games.....it's not like the LT is important or anything.

Heath Shuler
09-21-2010, 05:50 PM
Butler needs to step up. This his chance.

Austrian
09-21-2010, 05:51 PM
What was he thinking? Isn't he supposed to show the trainers what suplements he is taking?

False Start
09-21-2010, 05:53 PM
This does suck, but I'm not too worried personally.

Brando
09-21-2010, 05:54 PM
link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Texans-T-Brown-suspended-for-four-games/962ec526-46e8-4e59-abcb-7aa41cd584ae)



Duane Brown of the Houston Texans has been suspended without pay for four games for violating the NFL policy on performance enhancing substances.
Brown’s suspension begins immediately. He will be eligible to return to the Texans’ active roster on Monday, October 18 following the team’s October 17 game against the Kansas City Chiefs.

He should have known better, especially after what happened to Cushing!

HouSportsWriter
09-21-2010, 05:54 PM
texas home of the beloved steroids

Brando
09-21-2010, 05:55 PM
texas home of the beloved steroids

It's not "steroids", not yet anyway.

Thorn
09-21-2010, 05:58 PM
Well, crap. I'm not liking this at all.

JWarren14
09-21-2010, 06:00 PM
Duane Brown:

“First off, I want to personally apologize to Mr. McNair, Coach Kubiak and the rest of the coaching staff, my teammates, family and to all the great and loyal Texans fans. I take full responsibility for putting myself in this situation. I unknowingly took a supplement tainted with a banned substance and now have to deal with the consequences. After reviewing the appeal process and speaking with legal counsel, I have decided not to appeal my suspension. I understand the rules and accept my punishment.

"I vow to learn from this mistake and be a better player and teammate because of it.”

Showtime100
09-21-2010, 06:01 PM
I think it's doable. Problem, at least in my way of thinking, is I hope this doesn't have a direct effect on Schaub's health come Sunday.

m5kwatts
09-21-2010, 06:02 PM
I can tell you all this much, Rashad Butler will be ready and will play his ass off. I've followed him on twitter for a long time and he thinks he's a starter already. He's told me flat out he expects to be a starter for someone someday soon. He has the opportunity to put up 4 games of starting tape for he and his agent to shop to other teams with no left tackle in the offseason.

awtysst
09-21-2010, 06:02 PM
Cush and Brown will be out for Dallas and Oakland.

Brown will be out for Giants and Kansas City.

It will be tough having to block The Dallas D and NYG D with Butler. I suspect we can still beat KC and Oakland though. If we lose to Dallas/NYG and beat Oakland and KC, we would be 4-2 going into the bye.

I am not writing off the Dallas/NYG game or taking the KC/Oakland game for granted, I am simply saying that if that were to happen, 4-2 is a pretty good place to be after 6 games.

Scooter
09-21-2010, 06:02 PM
something i'm curious about is why they didnt appeal, if nothing else than to keep his supsension from overlapping with cushing's. i assume they want to get the suspension over with as soon as possible without drawing it out or giving the media too much to talk about, but that's a big blow to not have both cushing and brown for a pair of games.

butler's had a small fan club around here, he's going to have a heck of a test this weekend against ware.

Thorn
09-21-2010, 06:04 PM
Just a guess here, but maybe we'll be running the ball to the right side a lot more. LOL

pbat488
09-21-2010, 06:05 PM
A lot of times what happens is a player will take a supplement with nothing illegal written in the ingredients, but when it gets into the body it metabolizes into a banned substance that tests can pick up. Happened to a close friend at the college level and the testers told him it happens way more than someone knowingly cheating, especially at the professional level.

Wolf6151
09-21-2010, 06:16 PM
I'd imagine that we'll be using a TE and/or RB to help out Butler with his blocking assignments on D. Ware.

TexansForTheW
09-21-2010, 06:20 PM
I have NFL rewind, so I can go back to last season and see how Rashad butler did in his half of football against the Rams. Oh man.

Dutchrudder
09-21-2010, 06:22 PM
something i'm curious about is why they didnt appeal, if nothing else than to keep his supsension from overlapping with cushing's. i assume they want to get the suspension over with as soon as possible without drawing it out or giving the media too much to talk about, but that's a big blow to not have both cushing and brown for a pair of games.

butler's had a small fan club around here, he's going to have a heck of a test this weekend against ware.

If they appeal it and it is upheld, there's no telling when the suspension will land. It could go till week 15 and then he would miss a playoff game for his 4th game. That would be BAD...

alphajoker
09-21-2010, 06:24 PM
This sux but I have confidence in Butler...oh well, here's to another 10+ page thread...

Grams
09-21-2010, 06:27 PM
It was on ProFootball Talk that he was not going to appeal.

valleytexfan
09-21-2010, 06:32 PM
I can tell you all this much, Rashad Butler will be ready and will play his ass off. I've followed him on twitter for a long time and he thinks he's a starter already. He's told me flat out he expects to be a starter for someone someday soon. He has the opportunity to put up 4 games of starting tape for he and his agent to shop to other teams with no left tackle in the offseason.

I like this. His time to shine.

kiwitexansfan
09-21-2010, 06:41 PM
I think Butler won't be a huge drop off, I wonder if Salaam might be asked to come in as depth.

On the other side of this, when do the Texans start getting a 'reputation' about these things?

Hagar
09-21-2010, 06:44 PM
I can't believe all these guys are buying "Performance Enhancing Drugs" from a long snapper!?!

Butler will be fine.

valleytexfan
09-21-2010, 06:45 PM
when do the Texans start getting a 'reputation' about these things?

Now, unfortunately. I gotta get ready to listen to cowgirls fans talk smack about the "Injexans" or whatever juvenile name is next. :gun:

gtexan02
09-21-2010, 06:48 PM
This is starting to get embarrassing. Our rise up the power rankings coincides with players testing positive. How stupid do you have to be to not check a supplement. The NFL and the texans both have ways of preventing this. I hope this is just an "accident" and not our new trainers method for improving our conditioning.

TexansForTheW
09-21-2010, 06:54 PM
This is starting to get embarrassing. Our rise up the power rankings coincides with players testing positive. How stupid do you have to be to not check a supplement. The NFL and the texans both have ways of preventing this. I hope this is just an "accident" and not our new trainers method for improving our conditioning.

He knew what he was doing. That would be my guess. If he didn't, what a DUMBA... Im sorry but how hard is it to ask your front office or find out?

JB
09-21-2010, 06:55 PM
This is starting to get embarrassing. Our rise up the power rankings coincides with players testing positive. How stupid do you have to be to not check a supplement. The NFL and the texans both have ways of preventing this. I hope this is just an "accident" and not our new trainers method for improving our conditioning.

As stupid as it is, I think this is something very similar to what happened to the Williams boys with Starcaps.

I'm thinking that Brown probably took a supplement to help him lose weight for TC, and did not get it cleared thru the team.

Texanfan4ever
09-21-2010, 06:55 PM
I'm disgusted at this!!! It is unacceptable!!! if he didn't know, I'm sure others took the same drug and didn't know??? i'm not buying it.

They hired back Ephraim, doesn't he play that position? This is really sad! makes me sick!

disaacks3
09-21-2010, 06:57 PM
Now, unfortunately. I gotta get ready to listen to cowgirls fans talk smack about the "Injexans" or whatever juvenile name is next. :gun:
That's actually pretty good! :runaway:

Nawzer
09-21-2010, 06:58 PM
Wow!!! What a bummer this piece of news is....Time for someone else to step up.

thunderkyss
09-21-2010, 07:01 PM
Cush and Brown will be out for Dallas and Oakland.

Brown will be out for Giants and Kansas City.

It will be tough having to block The Dallas D and NYG D with Butler. I suspect we can still beat KC and Oakland though. If we lose to Dallas/NYG and beat Oakland and KC, we would be 4-2 going into the bye.

I am not writing off the Dallas/NYG game or taking the KC/Oakland game for granted, I am simply saying that if that were to happen, 4-2 is a pretty good place to be after 6 games.

The point is we lose Brown for Dallas & New York...

But he gets to play for the Colts, after the bye.... in Indy. I'd rather have him the whole time through, but if we can chose which 4 games... I choose Dallas, Oakland, NYGiants, KC

Not Oakland, NYGiants, KC & Indy

TexansForTheW
09-21-2010, 07:06 PM
The point is we lose Brown for Dallas & New York...

But he gets to play for the Colts, after the bye.... in Indy. I'd rather have him the whole time through, but if we can chose which 4 games... I choose Dallas, Oakland, NYGiants, KC

Not Oakland, NYGiants, KC & Indy

I think the Texans need to go atleast 5-1 to make the playoffs. Point is, this Texans team is better than the next 4 teams we play IMO. The Cowboys are not any more talented than us, don't let the hype sway you. If our team plays well we should not lose a game going in to Indy for Monday Night Football.

Jeff S.
09-21-2010, 07:06 PM
I'd rather have him the whole time through, but if we can chose which 4 games... I choose Dallas, Oakland, NYGiants, KC

Not Oakland, NYGiants, KC & Indy

Exactly. He said he talked to his legal advisors and decided not to appeal. "Legal advisors" probably means Smithiak telling him exactly what he was going to do and when.

Errant Hothy
09-21-2010, 07:10 PM
Of all of the backups Butler might be one of the ones I have the most faith in.

gtexan02
09-21-2010, 07:40 PM
I think we're ignoring the fact that in the past 2-3 years, we've had 3 (maybe more?) players test positive for banned substances. 2 of which have been very high profile players for our team.

I don't care about excuses. Freak medical conditions, accidental supplement taking, etc all start to look suspicious when one team consistently tests positive. How many other teams have had multiple players test positive?

This seems like either:
1) The Texans are doing a piss poor job of educating the players about what they can and cannot do

2) The Texans players are dumb

3) The Texans aren't actively discouraging (hopefully not promoting) this kind of behavior


I hope a suspension like this automatically cuts his pay by 1/4, because thats the percentage of the season he's missing.

It is SO easy for players to find out if substances are allowed. The team, the NFL, etc all have systems in place.

silvrhand
09-21-2010, 07:44 PM
A lot of times what happens is a player will take a supplement with nothing illegal written in the ingredients, but when it gets into the body it metabolizes into a banned substance that tests can pick up. Happened to a close friend at the college level and the testers told him it happens way more than someone knowingly cheating, especially at the professional level.

uhh.. I don't think the chemical makeup of any supplement is going to change after you ingest it. He clearly took something that was banned and clearly admitted it in his statement. Hats off for coming clean and admitting yep I messed up.

pbat488
09-21-2010, 07:51 PM
uhh.. I don't think the chemical makeup of any supplement is going to change after you ingest it. He clearly took something that was banned and clearly admitted it in his statement. Hats off for coming clean and admitting yep I messed up.

Yes, they do. One of my closest friends got busted for it at a fairly prominent football school. What happened was he checked the supplement with training staff and they ok'd it but after taking it for a few weeks he was randomly chosen for NCAA mandated testing and the test recognized he had taken something that was banned. After researching what it could have been they realized that a certain ingredient in this supplement metabolized, that's to say broke down in his system, into a banned substance. He was given his punishment but is now doing well for them and has learned his lesson.

Ryan
09-21-2010, 07:53 PM
I hate to find a positive in this, but it comes at a much better time than any other time in the season. We're off to a solid 2-0 start, we do play a great pass rusher on D-Ware, but outside of that this is still the best timing for it. He'll be back for our big MNF re-match against the Colts.

Other than that, let's just hope this is the last of the positive tests.

TheRealJoker
09-21-2010, 07:54 PM
Butler and Winston started together at Miami. He's always looked good when given the chance, now he has to look his best for the next 4 games.

Please stay healthy Schaub...

gtexan02
09-21-2010, 07:55 PM
If I was the Texans, iw ould be testing every player every single week. We are a multimillion dollar company. Proactively test, that way we know before the NFL does and we're able to address the issue

thunderkyss
09-21-2010, 07:58 PM
I think the Texans need to go atleast 5-1 to make the playoffs. Point is, this Texans team is better than the next 4 teams we play IMO. The Cowboys are not any more talented than us, don't let the hype sway you. If our team plays well we should not lose a game going in to Indy for Monday Night Football.

You misunderstood me. I like our chances in Dallas without Cushing, without Brown more than I like our chances in Indy at Indy without Brown.

Rey
09-21-2010, 08:00 PM
If I was the Texans, iw ould be testing every player every single week. We are a multimillion dollar company. Proactively test, that way we know before the NFL does and we're able to address the issue

I don't think they can do that.

I heard something on the radio this afternoon where they were talking about the team not being able to test like that...

alphajoker
09-21-2010, 08:02 PM
I think we're ignoring the fact that in the past 2-3 years, we've had 3 (maybe more?) players test positive for banned substances. 2 of which have been very high profile players for our team.

I don't care about excuses. Freak medical conditions, accidental supplement taking, etc all start to look suspicious when one team consistently tests positive. How many other teams have had multiple players test positive?

This seems like either:
1) The Texans are doing a piss poor job of educating the players about what they can and cannot do

2) The Texans players are dumb

3) The Texans aren't actively discouraging (hopefully not promoting) this kind of behavior


I hope a suspension like this automatically cuts his pay by 1/4, because thats the percentage of the season he's missing.

It is SO easy for players to find out if substances are allowed. The team, the NFL, etc all have systems in place.

He's suspended without pay so you'll get your wish.

alphajoker
09-21-2010, 08:03 PM
If I was the Texans, iw ould be testing every player every single week. We are a multimillion dollar company. Proactively test, that way we know before the NFL does and we're able to address the issue

I don't think there is any way the NFL players union would allow that to happen.

Rey
09-21-2010, 08:04 PM
Butler and Winston started together at Miami. He's always looked good when given the chance, now he has to look his best for the next 4 games.

Please stay healthy Schaub...

So now we have three canes on the line that played together...

Rey
09-21-2010, 08:05 PM
I think Butler is going to be fine...

thunderkyss
09-21-2010, 08:06 PM
uhh.. I don't think the chemical makeup of any supplement is going to change after you ingest it. He clearly took something that was banned and clearly admitted it in his statement. Hats off for coming clean and admitting yep I messed up.

Coming clean? He said he took a supplement that had something in it he was unaware of. That's not coming clean.

"I took steroids." "I knowingly took a banned substance."

That's coming clean.

feebleminded
09-21-2010, 08:09 PM
I hate to find a positive in this, but it comes at a much better time than any other time in the season. We're off to a solid 2-0 start, we do play a great pass rusher on D-Ware, but outside of that this is still the best timing for it. He'll be back for our big MNF re-match against the Colts.

Other than that, let's just hope this is the last of the positive tests.

Well at least he will have the bye week to get back up to speed. If his suspension is like Cushing's then he will have to stay completely away from the team for 4 weeks.

Hardcore Texan
09-21-2010, 08:09 PM
This really pisses me off! Damn it Duane!

For all of you that are optimistic about Butler, I sure hope you're right. I am worried.

Rey
09-21-2010, 08:11 PM
Looks like the Texans may have known about this for a while...

Didn't they bring Spencer and Salaam in for workouts sometime back???

They probably knew this was coming and decided to get ahead of the 8 ball...

Also, the Salaam signing probably means Spencer is not in that great of shape....

CloakNNNdagger
09-21-2010, 08:12 PM
I think we're ignoring the fact that in the past 2-3 years, we've had 3 (maybe more?) players test positive for banned substances. 2 of which have been very high profile players for our team.

I don't care about excuses. Freak medical conditions, accidental supplement taking, etc all start to look suspicious when one team consistently tests positive. How many other teams have had multiple players test positive?

This seems like either:
1) The Texans are doing a piss poor job of educating the players about what they can and cannot do

2) The Texans players are dumb

3) The Texans aren't actively discouraging (hopefully not promoting) this kind of behavior


I hope a suspension like this automatically cuts his pay by 1/4, because thats the percentage of the season he's missing.

It is SO easy for players to find out if substances are allowed. The team, the NFL, etc all have systems in place.


I posted this on the other MB while we were down:

Brown used the words "tainted supplement." Tainted means was not identified on the labelling, not just overlooked. Either way, this does not happen if players stick to the NFL approved certified list of supplements.

EAS and Nordic Naturals are the only supplement companies authorized by the NFL and the NFLPA because they have agreed to not only use ingredients that are approved but also to develop those supplements in laboratories that follow the proper chain of manufacturing the product. There are some supplements that EAS and Nordic Naturals may not produce.

Here is the Official NFL/NFLPA Certified list of Supplements (http://www.nsf.org/Certified/NFL/Listings.asp?).

All players have access to this site. There is no need to go to the coach (except for extra careful confirmation). The coaches are not going to (or at least they are not allowed to) suggest other supplements. The only other reason to approach the coach is to submit a formal request for an official league medical exeption for a drug or supplement presecribed by a physician.

Compliance is easy........unless you are looking to throw the dice in hopes of "beating the system."

thunderkyss
09-21-2010, 08:14 PM
For all of you that are optimistic about Butler, I sure hope you're right. I am worried.

Butler has played well, when we needed him in the regular season, and in the preseason. Though I thought he looked better in years past than he did this year.

I think he's solid. Ware might win a few... we may have to help from time to time..... but this doesn't automatically give the Cowboys the game.

If you never seen him in a game, I think you'll be impressed. Understand, he is playing against a great pass rusher in Ware, and a pretty darn good pass rusher in Spencer.

Hervoyel
09-21-2010, 08:20 PM
Butler will stand out over the next four weeks and make it hard for the coaches to sit him back down before it's all over. I always thought he was a steal and that Carolina gave up on him too soon. We all remember Salaam being "serviceable" correct? Well the presence of this guy made Salaam expendable. He'll be fine and the Texans will be fine.

Hardcore Texan
09-21-2010, 08:22 PM
Butler has played well, when we needed him in the regular season, and in the preseason. Though I thought he looked better in years past than he did this year.

I think he's solid. Ware might win a few... we may have to help from time to time..... but this doesn't automatically give the Cowboys the game.

If you never seen him in a game, I think you'll be impressed. Understand, he is playing against a great pass rusher in Ware, and a pretty darn good pass rusher in Spencer.

This is why I am worried. I have seen him play and know he's solid, just a bad week to lose Brown, especially the way the entire OL has been playing.

Kaiser Toro
09-21-2010, 08:32 PM
I recall they had Butler covering up Brown in a goal line package against the Colts.

Butler should have a sense of urgency to perform, I like that as he is playing for a payday somewhere. Coupled with Smith fitting in nicely at LG it gives me more confidence in that side of the line getting it done during Brown's absence.

texanskan
09-21-2010, 08:37 PM
That dam over-trained athlete syndrome strikes again

thunderkyss
09-21-2010, 08:40 PM
This is why I am worried. I have seen him play and know he's solid, just a bad week to lose Brown, especially the way the entire OL has been playing.

Like I said, if we can pick whether we lose Brown against the Cowboys, or against the Colts, I pick Cowboys. The game doesn't mean anything. It's an NFC game. Colts is a conference & divisional game. It would mean so much more to win that one.

& the OL has been playing well. We made some bad line calls against those weird blitzes... The Cowboys are a little more straight forward.

TheMatrix31
09-21-2010, 08:45 PM
What a horrible turn of events. We need you, man! Dammit.

drs23
09-21-2010, 08:47 PM
I can't believe all these guys are buying "Performance Enhancing Drugs" from a long snapper!?!

Butler will be fine.

Ya lost me??

JB
09-21-2010, 08:51 PM
Ya lost me??

'Cause Pittman was the first to get busted...

Texan_Bill
09-21-2010, 08:57 PM
'Cause Pittman was the first to get busted...

Bryan Pittman was suspended by the NFL yesterday. For those of you going Who the hell is Bryan Pittman?, he's the long snapper for the Houston Texans. His job is to snap on punts and kicks.

Pittman is one of six players suspended for the rest of the season. His suspension was for taking Bumetanide, a diuretic that is often used as a masking agent for steroids. This is a violation of the NFL's steroids policy.



Texans Long Snapper Bryan Pittman Suspended (http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2008/12/texans_long_snapper_bryan_pitt.php)

Rey
09-21-2010, 08:59 PM
Damn...

Everyone getting busted for masking agents....

JB
09-21-2010, 09:00 PM
Damn...

Everyone getting busted for masking agents....

How do you know it was for a masking agent?

drs23
09-21-2010, 09:22 PM
'Cause Pittman was the first to get busted...

Thanks JB and TB. I think I'm on pretty heavy meds for the crud. I'm up to speed now. Thanks again.

CloakNNNdagger
09-21-2010, 09:38 PM
TEXANS GENERAL MANAGER RICK SMITH STATEMENT: (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Texans-T-Brown-suspended-for-four-games/962ec526-46e8-4e59-abcb-7aa41cd584ae)

“We are disappointed that Duane Brown has been suspended. This is a significant blow to our team. Our players have to understand that they are responsible for what goes into their bodies and that they take risks anytime they use a supplement not approved by the NFL.

"Our head athletic trainer, head strength and conditioning coach as well as our team nutritionist have had many meetings and presentations constantly reminding our players about the dangers of the supplemental industry and risks associated with taking non-approved products.

"Gary and our coaches are game planning for Dallas and he will be available for comment tomorrow after practice. I am confident in our coaches and our players that we will work through this adversity and continue to play winning football.”

TimeKiller
09-21-2010, 09:48 PM
This is going to get ugly real quick. 2 in 1 year. 2 guys that have made a significant difference for the team.

MoCityBull
09-21-2010, 09:55 PM
2 texans suspended for substance abuse....expect the whole team to be tested a whole lot!...

gtexan02
09-21-2010, 10:18 PM
From PK over at ESPn

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/15497/brown-suspension-appears-a-texans-trend

Like it or not, fair or not, one such suspension might be an aberration, two appears to a lot of the league to be a trend.

gary
09-21-2010, 10:22 PM
I know there is not any reason for two or three in the same season but I don't think this will hurt the O line too much.

beerlover
09-21-2010, 10:23 PM
you guys don't think this will impact the Texans much? really?

Texan_Bill
09-21-2010, 10:24 PM
Thanks JB and TB. I think I'm on pretty heavy meds for the crud. I'm up to speed now. Thanks again.

You have "the Crud"?? That sucks Bro!! Get over it ASAP!!

gtexan02
09-21-2010, 10:30 PM
you guys don't think this will impact the Texans much? really?

As weird as this sounds, Im not *that* worried about the impact on gameday.

Im more worried about the future impact on the integrity of our "Team"

Like PK said. In the NFL, fair or not, 2 makes a trend. If anyone else gets suspended in the next year or two even, we're in for some heavy, heavy problems.

Having 2 guys out at the same time looks really bad imo.

Im very concerned that something is going on

TexanSam
09-21-2010, 10:32 PM
Lance Z. wants the Texans to appeal and drag it out. Can't say I know much about Butler but he believes he's a "lesser option" than Brown. I'm guessing there will be a blog post about this soon

http://twitter.com/LanceZierlein/status/25146556278
Duane Brown suspended for 4 games? Appeal, appeal, Appeal!!!!!

http://twitter.com/LanceZierlein/status/25147572648
You should be very worried about Butler vs. Duane. Butler a much lesser option

Rey
09-21-2010, 10:36 PM
How do you know it was for a masking agent?

Was referring to the post right above mine...Talking about Bray Pittman when he got busted...

And really, most of the cases that come to my mind are for masking agents...or for things that balance out hormones...

Would be surprised if D. Brown was busted for something else.

kiwitexansfan
09-21-2010, 10:41 PM
Ok, I'm calling it.

With losing Brown and facing the incredible pass rushing talents of DeMarcus Ware, I'm claiming underdog status for this weeks game.




(This may or may not be a reverse jinx)

drs23
09-21-2010, 10:46 PM
You have "the Crud"?? That sucks Bro!! Get over it ASAP!!

Thanks TB. I shelled 117 skins to put it down and I think it's working. I lost a whole damn day! :mad:

Lucky
09-21-2010, 10:49 PM
Butler will be fine.
Butler's probably OK. Still, this is his first start in the NFL.
Lance Z. wants the Texans to appeal and drag it out.
Exactly. Drag it out until the 2011 season. Hell, there might not even be a 2011 season. This could be our year. Don't waste this opportunity.

TexansForTheW
09-21-2010, 11:05 PM
If there is one part of the schedule that Duane could sit out with us receiving the least of the damage, now would be the time. 3 out of the 4 games at home. All 4 games we will be the favorite, and 3 of the 4 have below average pass rushers. Im sorry, but do you want Duane missing when we play Jacksonville, Tennessee, and the Colts. I would have to pass. The coaches have thought Butler was a very capable backup and played well against the Rams. We should be fine.

The1ApplePie
09-21-2010, 11:08 PM
Butler vs. D-Ware...

The Matt Lineart era may start in week 4:rake:

TheRealJoker
09-21-2010, 11:09 PM
Starting your first NFL game against Ware is about as tough as it can get for a LT. If Schaub makes it through healthy, we can rest easy knowing Butler is capable to watch his blindside without pissing off Sandra Bullock.

gary
09-21-2010, 11:15 PM
They have signed ES so they do not have to start Butler if they don't want to.

gtexan02
09-21-2010, 11:20 PM
They have signed ES so they do not have to start Butler if they don't want to.

I think if ES starts, we're in serious, serious trouble

kiwitexansfan
09-21-2010, 11:21 PM
Butler vs. D-Ware...

The Matt Lineart era may start in week 4:rake:

We'll be running the ball a lot, lining up a TE over that side to double and chip at Ware, throwing quick throws behind him.

We will be game planning the bejingoes out of things to cover Butler's a$$

Big Lou
09-21-2010, 11:29 PM
At least him and Cush will be fresh for the playoffs.



Anyone else, Bueller, Bueller................

BSofA04
09-21-2010, 11:29 PM
If there is one part of the schedule that Duane could sit out with us receiving the least of the damage, now would be the time. 3 out of the 4 games at home. All 4 games we will be the favorite, and 3 of the 4 have below average pass rushers. Im sorry, but do you want Duane missing when we play Jacksonville, Tennessee, and the Colts. I would have to pass. The coaches have thought Butler was a very capable backup and played well against the Rams. We should be fine.

This is my exact thought process. It's stupid that we're going to have two of our top players out a quarter of the season. For Duane's suspension at least it's at the ideal time. Cushing's couldn't have been any worse.

TexansForTheW
09-21-2010, 11:49 PM
Our defense is going to be great when Cush comes back. I can't wait. I think this is the one game to really worry about. If we can win this, we should be going 6 and 0 in to the bye. I just feel like our offense is to good.

BSofA04
09-22-2010, 12:05 AM
I really think what going to hurt us the most during Duane's suspension is the run blocking. He's been doing a fantastic job on screens, getting up field and making some key blocks. Even on zone plays where you'll see him getting to the second level and taking the linebacker right out of the play.

I don't know how good Butler will be, but there's got to be a bit of a learning curve (butterfly's?). So if you struggle with the run, or if we get behind, Schaub will be forced to pass and that is NOT what we want to do against an aggressive 3-4 scheme with Demarcus Ware pinning his ears back.

Unfortunately, even a casual fanatic such as myself can see the writing on the wall that we're going to do a lot of short routes with quick cuts to keep Schaub upright. Unless Arian Foster can pound some yardage, eat-up clock and move the chains, get ready to be force-fed bubble screens and quick slants.

NitroGSXR
09-22-2010, 12:14 AM
We know you're guilty. You know you're guilty. Bob McNair and Roger Goodell know you're guilty. Now appeal the suspension. I dont get why he isnt. It's the American way!

Frustrating.

TexansForTheW
09-22-2010, 12:15 AM
I really think what going to hurt us the most during Duane's suspension is the run blocking. He's been doing a fantastic job on screens, getting up field and making some key blocks. Even on zone plays where you'll see him getting to the second level and taking the linebacker right out of the play.

I don't know how good Butler will be, but there's got to be a bit of a learning curve (butterfly's?). So if you struggle with the run, or if we get behind, Schaub will be forced to pass and that is NOT what we want to do against an aggressive 3-4 scheme with Demarcus Ware pinning his ears back.

Unfortunately, even a casual fanatic such as myself can see the writing on the wall that we're going to do a lot of short routes with quick cuts to keep Schaub upright. Unless Arian Foster can pound some yardage, eat-up clock and move the chains, get ready to be force-fed bubble screens and quick slants.

That I feel is a good idea. Dallas likes to send pressure, and getting the ball out early is what led to Cutler's good performance. I agree about the run blocking but from what I am hearing, Butler is capable and is pretty athletic. I don't want to give Ware time to get to the quarterback, but we need to try and establish the running game and when we do play action pass it will keep the defense off balance. The good thing about the play action is that it can cancel out the rush off the line, so hopefully we can get some decent gains on the ground to make the Cowboys respect it. It was a good sign in preseason our line completely dominated theirs though, which makes me somewhat optimistic even when losing our LT.

TexansForTheW
09-22-2010, 12:16 AM
We know you're guilty. You know you're guilty. Bob McNair and Roger Goodell know you're guilty. Now appeal the suspension. I dont get why he isnt. It's the American way!

Frustrating.

What appeal the suspension when were playing possibly the easiest part of our schedule? I want our team full strength for divisional games.

BSofA04
09-22-2010, 12:31 AM
What appeal the suspension when were playing possibly the easiest part of our schedule? I want our team full strength for divisional games.
I would think that's what the Texan's brass advised him to do.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 12:34 AM
I'm getting really sick and tired of this steroid or PED's shit in the NFL. I wish this suspension would be much longer for at least 8 games or possibly 12. Not that I wish it would be for Duane Brown specifically because we need the guy really bad, but because I'm really sick of this becoming more and more of an issue around the NFL and 4 games is nothing to these guys and it needs to be a stiffer punishment before players start realizing what the hell they're doing and feel like it's to much of a risk. This is two of the most important players on our team that will both be gone for several games now. I don't want to hear any excuses about this. You did what you did and if you didn't you're just a moron at this point for not knowing what you were taking. Damn Duane Brown.

The NFL needs to start suspending guys for like 12 games for this.

NitroGSXR
09-22-2010, 12:35 AM
What appeal the suspension when were playing possibly the easiest part of our schedule? I want our team full strength for divisional games.i get the premise of what you're trying to broach but where did you get such a specific timetable as to when the suspension hearing would be?

Try this... more time to get some legs warm under the person taking over for Brown. Salaam is a giant step backwards. salaam was once the best on our line. we became blindly infatuated with him since he was SO MUCH better than the lumps of compost before him. 2007 is so yesterday.

Appeal.

TexansForTheW
09-22-2010, 12:44 AM
Appeal processes usually take a few weeks at most, obviously the two Williams for the Vikings are a special circumstance. If the man appeals the process now, then he would ultimately end up sitting out the 4 games during the season and probably against better opponents.

NitroGSXR
09-22-2010, 12:52 AM
Appeal processes usually take a few weeks at most, obviously the two Williams for the Vikings are a special circumstance. If the man appeals the process now, then he would ultimately end up sitting out the 4 games during the season and probably against better opponents.
Cushing failed his test after week one and was not suspended until after the season. The pendant has stopped swinging with this suspension. It lost its momentum. I say to Duane to seek advice from Cushing and appeal.

We don't agree and that's cool. Go Texans.

TheMatrix31
09-22-2010, 12:54 AM
I'm getting really sick and tired of this steroid or PED's shit in the NFL. I wish this suspension would be much longer for at least 8 games or possibly 12. Not that I wish it would be for Duane Brown specifically because we need the guy really bad, but because I'm really sick of this becoming more and more of an issue around the NFL and 4 games is nothing to these guys and it needs to be a stiffer punishment before players start realizing what the hell they're doing and feel like it's to much of a risk. This is two of the most important players on our team that will both be gone for several games now. I don't want to hear any excuses about this. You did what you did and if you didn't you're just a moron at this point for not knowing what you were taking. Damn Duane Brown.

The NFL needs to start suspending guys for like 12 games for this.

Four games is pretty decent....25% of the season right there.

ChampionTexan
09-22-2010, 12:59 AM
i get the premise of what you're trying to broach but where did you get such a specific timetable as to when the suspension hearing would be?

Try this... more time to get some legs warm under the person taking over for Brown. Salaam is a giant step backwards. salaam was once the best on our line. we became blindly infatuated with him since he was SO MUCH better than the lumps of compost before him. 2007 is so yesterday.

Appeal.

Timetable for appeal of disciplinary action resulting from violation of NFL Steroid Policy

5. If the player is subject to disciplinary action, the League Office will notify him in writing, with a copy to the Players Association.

6. If the player decides to appeal, he must so indicate in writing within five (5) business days after receiving a notice of discipline from the League Office. He should state in his notice of appeal whether or not he desires a hearing.

7. If a hearing is requested, the League will schedule it to take place within twenty (20) calendar days of the request absent mutual agreement or extenuating circumstances. The hearing may be conducted by conference call upon agreement of the parties.

8. Prior to the hearing, the League will provide the player and NFL Players Association with a laboratory documentation package prepared in accordance with Appendix I. In the absence of clear evidence to the contrary, such package will be deemed full and complete for the purpose of evaluating the integrity of the chain-of-custody and test results. Once the player has had sufficient opportunity to review the documentation package, he must provide to the League a written statement setting forth the specific grounds of his appeal. Additionally, no later than two (2) business days prior to the hearing the parties will exchange copies of any documents or other evidence on which they intend to rely and a list of witnesses expected to provide testimony. Following the exchange, the parties may provide further supplementation as appropriate.

9. Once the record is closed, the Hearing Officer will evaluate the evidence and render a written decision with respect to disciplinary action within five (5) calendar days. (If appropriate, a summary ruling may be rendered, followed by a formal decision as time permits.)

So unless the Texans are willing to bet on the league to "mutually agree" to delay the appeal hearing, the whole process would be over at most 30 days from the date Duane Brown received notice of his suspension.

LINK (http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/images/oldImages/fck/2009%20Steroid%20Policy.pdf)
(Quoted language from pages 21 & 22 of the policy)

BSofA04
09-22-2010, 01:03 AM
Duane took down his Twitter page...

http://twitter.com/76ondalef

He posts all the time on Twitter, well he used to.

Jeff S.
09-22-2010, 01:19 AM
I always thought he was a steal and that Carolina gave up on him too soon.

Isn't Butler the guy who had the mysterious digestive/intestinal problem that dogged him for a while? IIRC, it was preventing him from keeping his weight up; I think they have had it fixed for a couple years now.

Hookem Horns
09-22-2010, 01:25 AM
Duane took down his Twitter page...

http://twitter.com/76ondalef

He posts all the time on Twitter, well he used to.

He started a new one www.twitter.com/justsaynotopeds

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 01:29 AM
uhh.. I don't think the chemical makeup of any supplement is going to change after you ingest it. He clearly took something that was banned and clearly admitted it in his statement. Hats off for coming clean and admitting yep I messed up.

One of the things that happens a lot is that supplement companies will use the same pilling device to create pills for different substances. Occasionally even a substance that is not on the banned list will be "tainted" by an illegal substance.

However, in this case from what he's saying, he took something that he thought wasn't banned and it was. It could be something as simple as he took Mucinex DM or some other decongestant and then tested positive for ephedrine... and that's the way it works.

There are a lot of over the counter things that we "normal" people take every day that would trigger a positive PED test.

Prior to competition, I pretty much have to stay away from everything and if my allergies are acting up, I can get miserable.

silvrhand
09-22-2010, 02:18 AM
One of the things that happens a lot is that supplement companies will use the same pilling device to create pills for different substances. Occasionally even a substance that is not on the banned list will be "tainted" by an illegal substance.

However, in this case from what he's saying, he took something that he thought wasn't banned and it was. It could be something as simple as he took Mucinex DM or some other decongestant and then tested positive for ephedrine... and that's the way it works.

There are a lot of over the counter things that we "normal" people take every day that would trigger a positive PED test.

Prior to competition, I pretty much have to stay away from everything and if my allergies are acting up, I can get miserable.

Total agree this is likely the case.

I was arguing that chemical compositions don't change from a non banned substance to a banned substance just cause your body digests them.

Señor Stan
09-22-2010, 08:26 AM
That damn under-educated athlete syndrome strikes again

fixed it for you

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 08:36 AM
Butler's probably OK. Still, this is his first start in the NFL.

Exactly. Drag it out until the 2011 season. Hell, there might not even be a 2011 season. This could be our year. Don't waste this opportunity.

There is no assurance that the appeal process will not be successfully completed by the NFL before the middle or the end of the season. Think of an OL without Brown near the end of the year.......including the postseason if we get there.

HTown2ATX
09-22-2010, 08:40 AM
Glad the server was down yesterday when I got the 610 text.

My head hurts.............:roast:

gtexan02
09-22-2010, 09:00 AM
Hypothetical:

What would you say if it turned out that Duane Brown tested positive for HCG?

Would it change your opinion of the Texans?

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 09:16 AM
One of the things that happens a lot is that supplement companies will use the same pilling device to create pills for different substances. Occasionally even a substance that is not on the banned list will be "tainted" by an illegal substance.

However, in this case from what he's saying, he took something that he thought wasn't banned and it was. It could be something as simple as he took Mucinex DM or some other decongestant and then tested positive for ephedrine... and that's the way it works.

There are a lot of over the counter things that we "normal" people take every day that would trigger a positive PED test.

Prior to competition, I pretty much have to stay away from everything and if my allergies are acting up, I can get miserable.


Your thinking is correct. Just a small point of clarification. Mucinex DM is not a decongestant. It contains no ephedrine, ephedrine-like or stimulant substances. In fact, it contains no banned substances. It contains an expectorance that loosens mucus (guaifenesin) and an anti-tussive that stops the cough reflex (dextromethorphan). Now Mucinex D DOES contain pseudoephedrine, a decongestant and stimulant.

SheTexan
09-22-2010, 09:22 AM
Hypothetical:

What would you say if it turned out that Duane Brown tested positive for HCG?

Would it change your opinion of the Texans?

No, it would not change my opinion. Personally, I think the entire rule is dumb. The only thing that should be banned is illegal drugs. JMO! Whether or not they use steroids should be up to them, and their team. YES, I know the long term effects of using steroids!!! To ban a player because he has a trace amt of ephedrine, that could come from anything, is just stup*d!!

BIG TORO
09-22-2010, 09:23 AM
I'm just glad it happened now, I think we can take care of these next four games with out him, because after our bye week the schedule looks rough.

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 09:37 AM
Rick Smith on 610 says he has confidence in Butler.......and he will have help at first.

Re. DB: .............essentially.............stupid.

Jeff S.
09-22-2010, 10:05 AM
Now Mucinex D DOES contain pseudoephedrine, a decongestant and stimulant.

That's even more to the point. The addition of the letter "D" could get someone banned. How many of us know the difference between Excedrin and Anacin?

Still...these guys' profession is football, and I don't think it's too much to ask for them to get up to speed on this stuff. That's taking him at his word, of course--that he didn't knowingly take anything illegal.

Malloy
09-22-2010, 10:23 AM
GD what an *****... What do we need to do, have Bob McNair prepare their lunchboxes?!?!

I don't care, for a team that pays 125mil$+ in salary every year, one would think that it was possible to hire someone to MAKE SURE that this shit does not happen. I don't care, hire all players a cook and a pharmacist... In the grand total it's peanuts...

HuttoKarl
09-22-2010, 10:30 AM
Team Butler!

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 10:36 AM
That's even more to the point. The addition of the letter "D" could get someone banned. How many of us know the difference between Excedrin and Anacin?

Still...these guys' profession is football, and I don't think it's too much to ask for them to get up to speed on this stuff. That's taking him at his word, of course--that he didn't knowingly take anything illegal.


All Mucinex products are clearly labelled as to active ingredients, on the box AND and bottle. Your example would imply Brown incapable of distinguishing between Dom Perion and rubbing alcohol...........which, now that I think about it, could possibly explain why he is no longer able to read labels properly.:)

spurstexanstros
09-22-2010, 10:43 AM
Inwonder if Jerry had a hand in this...timing wise I mean

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 11:14 AM
Your thinking is correct. Just a small point of clarification. Mucinex DM is not a decongestant. It contains no ephedrine, ephedrine-like or stimulant substances. In fact, it contains no banned substances. It contains an expectorance that loosens mucus (guaifenesin) and an anti-tussive that stops the cough reflex (dextromethorphan). Now Mucinex D DOES contain pseudoephedrine, a decongestant and stimulant.

Ooops. My bad. I thought the DM had the pseudoephedrine in it, too. I knew one of them did.

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 11:16 AM
No, it would not change my opinion. Personally, I think the entire rule is dumb. The only thing that should be banned is illegal drugs. JMO! Whether or not they use steroids should be up to them, and their team. YES, I know the long term effects of using steroids!!! To ban a player because he has a trace amt of ephedrine, that could come from anything, is just stup*d!!

hCG is illegal and scheduled the same as steroids are, iirc.

Jackie Chiles
09-22-2010, 11:33 AM
Isn't Butler the guy who had the mysterious digestive/intestinal problem that dogged him for a while? IIRC, it was preventing him from keeping his weight up; I think they have had it fixed for a couple years now.

No, that was his college teammate LB Xavier Adibi.

EDIT: Whoops, wrong guy, I am a drunken *****. I can't call myself an ldiot?

infantrycak
09-22-2010, 11:36 AM
No, that was his college teammate LB Xavier Adibi.

Adibi was ill and lost weight but Butler is the player who had the undiagnosed problem. He was drafted by Carolina and couldn't keep weight on. The Texans picked him up, diagnosed the problem and he has been good since.

Jackie Chiles
09-22-2010, 11:36 AM
I'll throw something out there as to why the team and Duane might prefer to get the suspension out of the way. He has been listed at least once on the injury report with a hamstring issue, obviously it hasn't kept him from playing at a pretty high level but perhaps they just feel like they might as well knock that out completely while he is off 4 games. I wouldn't have a problem with him appealing but bottom line is he has a 4 game penalty to pay and its going to hurt now or hurt later.

Errant Hothy
09-22-2010, 11:36 AM
Isn't Butler the guy who had the mysterious digestive/intestinal problem that dogged him for a while? IIRC, it was preventing him from keeping his weight up; I think they have had it fixed for a couple years now.

Yes it is. Butler suffers from Ulcerative Colitis, which was keeping him from bulking up.

No, that was his college teammate LB Xavier Adibi.

Abidi and Butler were not college teammates. Butler went to The U and Abidi to VT.

Jackie Chiles
09-22-2010, 11:37 AM
Adibi was ill and lost weight but Butler is the player who had the undiagnosed problem. He was drafted by Carolina and couldn't keep weight on. The Texans picked him up, diagnosed the problem and he has been good since.

Ahh, good call, I remember now, for some reason I read Butler as Brown and that problem he had when he came over from Carolina didn't even register.

Austrian
09-22-2010, 11:39 AM
Isn't Butler the guy who had the mysterious digestive/intestinal problem that dogged him for a while? IIRC, it was preventing him from keeping his weight up; I think they have had it fixed for a couple years now.

Yep you're right. That's why the Panthers gave up on him. The doctors in Houston diagnosed him with ulcerative colitis (not sure though) and treated it accordingly and he gained the lost weight.

edit: Too late.

SheTexan
09-22-2010, 11:42 AM
hCG is illegal and scheduled the same as steroids are, iirc.

Then why does nearly every diet center around offer HCG injections for weight loss? You can buy the stuff off the Internet.

hradhak
09-22-2010, 11:47 AM
I didn't realize that Butler had ulcerative colitis. More power to him that he's able to play football. It's a horrible disease, but fortunately, unlike Crohn's, it can be cured with an operation.

I wonder what the drug tests for Butler are like ? Most UC patients take steroids (not the performance enhancing variety).

NitroGSXR
09-22-2010, 11:48 AM
I'll throw something out there as to why the team and Duane might prefer to get the suspension out of the way. He has been listed at least once on the injury report with a hamstring issue, obviously it hasn't kept him from playing at a pretty high level but perhaps they just feel like they might as well knock that out completely while he is off 4 games. I wouldn't have a problem with him appealing but bottom line is he has a 4 game penalty to pay and its going to hurt now or hurt later.
I like this version. It's what I'll use when listening to local Cowpie fans bash on Brown's refusal to appeal. Ugh.

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 11:48 AM
hCG is illegal and scheduled the same as steroids are, iirc.

You are correct. Injectable HCG and steroids must be physician prescribed. They are both Schedule III drugs. Unauthorized used is a felony.

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 11:57 AM
Then why does nearly every diet center around offer HCG injections for weight loss? You can buy the stuff off the Internet.

The FDA has chosen not to reclassify these from a "supplement" category because, when analyzed, they have been found to contain no or virtually no HCG. And furthermore when present, in oral and sublingual forms, they have been found to be destroyed prior to absorption into the blood stream, as confirmed by no detectable blood levels in controlled studies.

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 12:15 PM
I didn't realize that Butler had ulcerative colitis. More power to him that he's able to play football. It's a horrible disease, but fortunately, unlike Crohn's, it can be cured with an operation.

I wonder what the drug tests for Butler are like ? Most UC patients take steroids (not the performance enhancing variety).

Ulcerative colitis is first treated with anti-inflammatory drugs, which can include corticosteroids. But approximately 1/3 will go on to requiring surgery. The extent of colon resection is dependent on the extent of disease. What is referred to as "curative" surgery requires not only removal of the entire colon, but also of the rectum, usually leaving the patient with an ileostomy (the small intestine brought out throught the abdominal wall) for purposes of waste elimination. There is a technique that has been used to bring the small intesting down and connecting it with the anus. However, this has many times resulted in continued inflammatory problems and soiling problems even more troublesome than dealing with an ileostomy.

EDIT:The scary thing about this disease, especially in a football player is that STRESS is a trigger to exacerbate this condition.

Pollardized
09-22-2010, 12:17 PM
Screw it. Brown took something he shouldn't have taken, and now he's doing his time. We may not like it but there's nothing that can be done.


On a more serious note, I sent an email to Kubes this morning offering my services in Brown's place. I only ask for a pro-rated portion of his contract, guaranteed before I step on the field. I'm up to about 235 pounds. I think I can hold my own.

devo-x
09-22-2010, 12:22 PM
I wonder if Butler beats our Brown after he comes back from suspension

BIG TORO
09-22-2010, 12:25 PM
Adibi was ill and lost weight but Butler is the player who had the undiagnosed problem. He was drafted by Carolina and couldn't keep weight on. The Texans picked him up, diagnosed the problem and he has been good since.

Yea all Butler needed was some banned substances that we had and he put on weight real quick! lol

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 12:29 PM
Ulverative Colitis, no?

BIG TORO
09-22-2010, 12:32 PM
ulverative colitis, no?

yes

So do yall think Butler will be a weakness?

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 12:41 PM
Then why does nearly every diet center around offer HCG injections for weight loss? You can buy the stuff off the Internet.

It's illegal for YOU, as a person, to own in the US without a prescription. But doctors can give it to you legally. Same with steroids. If a doctor determines that you need anabolic steroids, the doctor can prescribe it for you.

You can buy Anabolic Steroids on the Internet, too.

I just wouldn't suggest that you do it. Or you might get a visit from the DEA. Additionally, there are lots of herbal versions of things that are actually rip-offs.

EDIT: OK. Cloak beat me to it. :)

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 12:44 PM
yes

So do yall think Butler will be a weakness?

I think Butler will do OK. He looked good in limited time last year. We should give him some help but I don't think he's going to be a total liability.

BIG TORO
09-22-2010, 12:56 PM
I think Butler will do OK. He looked good in limited time last year. We should give him some help but I don't think he's going to be a total liability.

I guess I'm just worried about who he's going up against this weekend.

smell the glove
09-22-2010, 12:57 PM
Hypothetical:

What would you say if it turned out that Duane Brown tested positive for HCG?

Would it change your opinion of the Texans?

What would you say if it turns out that a third player is named after game 4? There has been a lot of cryptic talk lately and I have a strong feeling that the hammer will drop one more time. If it's the person I think it is, it will help clarify some of the questions that many people had about roster moves this year.

drs23
09-22-2010, 02:21 PM
What would you say if it turns out that a third player is named after game 4? There has been a lot of cryptic talk lately and I have a strong feeling that the hammer will drop one more time. If it's the person I think it is, it will help clarify some of the questions that many people had about roster moves this year.

OK carrot on a stick guy, what cryptic talk as of late, what person do you *think* it is and of course, what roster moves??? Two DEs to replace 1? idonno:

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 02:39 PM
Four games is pretty decent....25% of the season right there.


It's obviously not decent at all. Maybe if there were real punishments for things like "cheating" than we'd have Cushing and Brown on this team right now because they wouldn't feel that taking PED's was worth the risk. There are way to many guys testing positive for this stuff now days and we've got two of our most important players out because of it. They're not that worried about the risk of getting caught, because the consequences aren't high enough and this continues to be a problem that's getting worse. These 4 game suspensions aren't doing jack to solve the problem. Stiffer punishments that might hurt a guy's career completely is a hell of a lot more to consider when making the decision to cheat.

houstonspartan
09-22-2010, 02:40 PM
OK carrot on a stick guy, what cryptic talk as of late, what person do you *think* it is and of course, what roster moves??? Two DEs to replace 1? idonno:

I'm with you. What third person? Fess up.

If a third player is named, that would be a disaster, and would tank this team's reputation. McNair would have to clean house just to keep his reputation intact.

Errant Hothy
09-22-2010, 02:52 PM
What would you say if it turns out that a third player is named after game 4? There has been a lot of cryptic talk lately and I have a strong feeling that the hammer will drop one more time. If it's the person I think it is, it will help clarify some of the questions that many people had about roster moves this year.

Call your shot or shut up.

I hate this "Look at me! I know more then you crap". Either you know something and shoud post it; or I'm inclined to believe you are blowing air out or your ass.

HTown2ATX
09-22-2010, 02:54 PM
What would you say if it turns out that a third player is named after game 4? There has been a lot of cryptic talk lately and I have a strong feeling that the hammer will drop one more time. If it's the person I think it is, it will help clarify some of the questions that many people had about roster moves this year.

I call.......

Lay it on the table chief....

GlassHalfFull
09-22-2010, 02:56 PM
This is what was behind the kicker battle!!!!!! :stirpot:

gtexan02
09-22-2010, 03:24 PM
What would you say if it turns out that a third player is named after game 4? There has been a lot of cryptic talk lately and I have a strong feeling that the hammer will drop one more time. If it's the person I think it is, it will help clarify some of the questions that many people had about roster moves this year.

If it turns out theres a 3rd high profile player, then I guess I would have to reexamine my loyalty to the team.

3 players would be a pervasive cheating problem in my opinion. I would find it difficult to continue to cheer for a team that relies on cheating to succeed.

I think it would detract from this awesome increase in success. It would taint it for sure.

I called out Pats fans when the spygate scandal came around. This would be as bad, if not worse, than that.

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 03:31 PM
If it turns out theres a 3rd high profile player, then I guess I would have to reexamine my loyalty to the team.

3 players would be a pervasive cheating problem in my opinion. I would find it difficult to continue to cheer for a team that relies on cheating to succeed.

I think it would detract from this awesome increase in success. It would taint it for sure.

I called out Pats fans when the spygate scandal came around. This would be as bad, if not worse, than that.

Personally, I think that this "cheating" is pervasive throughout the NFL and has been since at least the 70's. If we have another guy test positive, it's not going to bother my loyalty to the team because I think all the teams are doing it.

drewmar74
09-22-2010, 03:33 PM
If it's the person I think it is, it will help clarify some of the questions that many people had about roster moves this year.

The only roster questions I had were why we're so thin at certain positions rather than "Gee, why do we have so many of X position players?"

If you're going to make a post like that, back it up with something. Otherwise I'm thinking you're a troll.

Personally, I think that this "cheating" is pervasive throughout the NFL and has been since at least the 70's. If we have another guy test positive, it's not going to bother my loyalty to the team because I think all the teams are doing it.

Yes sir. Agreed 100%.

gtexan02
09-22-2010, 03:34 PM
Personally, I think that this "cheating" is pervasive throughout the NFL and has been since at least the 70's. If we have another guy test positive, it's not going to bother my loyalty to the team because I think all the teams are doing it.

Thats the same excuse we got from the spygate people. That all teams use whatever advantage they can get. I think the "everyone is doing it" excuse is weak.

As of now, we only have the information that the NFL provides.

Do I think NFL player would use PEDs if they believed they wouldn't get in trouble? Sure. Do I know? Nope

If I knew that the Texans players were being encouraged to skirt the system, then yeah, that would bother me. I dont cheer for cheaters.

infantrycak
09-22-2010, 03:36 PM
If it turns out theres a 3rd high profile player, then I guess I would have to reexamine my loyalty to the team.

3 players would be a pervasive cheating problem in my opinion. I would find it difficult to continue to cheer for a team that relies on cheating to succeed.

I think it would detract from this awesome increase in success. It would taint it for sure.

I called out Pats fans when the spygate scandal came around. This would be as bad, if not worse, than that.

Why does it reflect on the team if there is no information they were involved or had any knowledge (unlike the Pats since that was the team acting)?

Why is any connection being made between Cushing and Brown at all when there is no indication the same banned substance was involved?

gtexan02
09-22-2010, 03:39 PM
Why does it reflect on the team if there is no information they were involved or had any knowledge (unlike the Pats since that was the team acting)?

Why is any connection being made between Cushing and Brown at all when there is no indication the same banned substance was involved?

You must have missed my earlier posts.

I started by asking what if Brown tested positive for hcg.
Some guy said there was a connection, and that there was going to be a 3rd player mentioned.

So I said that if there were 3 players, then it would sound more like a trend among our players. 3 players testing positive for the same banned substance would indicate a pervasive, team wide issue.

I said that If I knew that the Texans were encouraging the team to skirt the rules, that would impact my view of the team. I italicized the word "knew" because I wanted to emphasize that my view of an organization would require knowing that this was organizational beyond just a group of idiotic players.

The players are the team to me. Bob McNair is the owner, but the players are our team. Especially the high profile ones.

hradhak
09-22-2010, 03:47 PM
It bothers me when I guy is caught with a PED, but not because they're "cheating" necessarily, but because they're hurting the team. Players get suspended all the time, we just don't hear about it unless it happens to our team. Cushing was an exception because he drug out his appeal process over a year.

I think the NFL has gone way overboard with the testing policy. Who's to say that these players couldn't get a banned substance in their system by accident? Poppy seeds can cause a false positive drug test for opiods. The NFL also has a ludicrous appeals process - one in which even reasonable doubt means nothing.

I am not saying that Cushing or Duane Brown are innocent. I just think the NFL has gone overboard with drug testing and they take a guilty until proven innocent approach to appeals.

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 03:47 PM
Thats the same excuse we got from the spygate people. That all teams use whatever advantage they can get. I think the "everyone is doing it" excuse is weak.

As of now, we only have the information that the NFL provides.

Do I think NFL player would use PEDs if they believed they wouldn't get in trouble? Sure. Do I know? Nope

If I knew that the Texans players were being encouraged to skirt the system, then yeah, that would bother me. I dont cheer for cheaters.

If the playing field is level, then I don't care. I personally don't agree with the performance enhancing drug laws or rules regarding performance enhancing drugs. I mean... ephedrine? Come on, man. I'd even prefer the rules go back to the '70's regarding anabolic steroids... but that's just me.

The thing that bothers me is that we're not being smart about whatever it is we're doing. BUT... there's also no data on whether the drug tests that were failed are the same.

All we have is what the guys say. Cushing said he doesn't know how he tested positive. Duane Brown says he knows what supplement he took that he shouldn't have and won't do it again.

These are two very different cases... at least from this perspective. So treating them as if they're the same sort of failure at this point is a little premature.

gtexan02
09-22-2010, 03:53 PM
It bothers me when I guy is caught with a PED, but not because they're "cheating" necessarily, but because they're hurting the team. Players get suspended all the time, we just don't hear about it unless it happens to our team. Cushing was an exception because he drug out his appeal process over a year.

I think the NFL has gone way overboard with the testing policy. Who's to say that these players couldn't get a banned substance in their system by accident? Poppy seeds can cause a false positive drug test for opiods. The NFL also has a ludicrous appeals process - one in which even reasonable doubt means nothing.

I am not saying that Cushing or Duane Brown are innocent. I just think the NFL has gone overboard with drug testing and they take a guilty until proven innocent approach to appeals.

I think I can agree with this. The NFL policies are ridiculous in some cases.

However, in order to make a judgement, we have to know what the banned substance was. I dont think Brown is going to say. Some of the banned substances are absurd. Some make sense. Without knowing which our players tested positive for, its difficult to excuse away.


Like I said earlier, the fact that they get caught taking specific things doesnt bother me so much. I dont think many of the things give an advantage.

What would concern me is if multiple player tested positive for the same thing, and it was discovered that our team was trying to outsmart the testing procedure or the rules. Why take that supplement if it doesnt give an advantage?

Right now all we have is 2 guys who tested positive over a year apart and no link between them except for a guy named "Smell the glove" with a total of 5 posts.

I think its pretty safe to say that there is no connection at this point. We'll have to wait and see if he comes back, or if we hear more in the future

devo-x
09-22-2010, 03:59 PM
I noticed something interesting posted on the main HT board (It's only a rumor)

Does anyone have a link to verify if this is true?

"It sounds like the ex Texans trainer was passing out something against the NFL PED policy. Cushing said he only took substances approved by the Texans. The trainer got fired and a second player is in trouble for the same thing. Just my thoughts."

Source: http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=19556

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 04:05 PM
Personally, I think that this "cheating" is pervasive throughout the NFL and has been since at least the 70's. If we have another guy test positive, it's not going to bother my loyalty to the team because I think all the teams are doing it.

Yeah, it wouldn't hurt my loyalty either, because it's clearly a problem all around the league and players are finding all sorts of ways either to mask these tests or to get it out of their systems by a certain time.

And this is exactly why I say that these silly 4 game punishments are a joke. That's not that big of a consequence and they need to issue out punishments of at least 12 games and then if they're caught again it should be for a full season. That right there might be enough to end a lot of people's careers. If they can't play without cheating they don't need to play at all. The consequences if you're caught have to far exceed the benefits and the risk. Four games is nothing and until they increase the punishment for positive tests of banned substances we're only going to see more people get exposed and don't be surprised if there are more high profile Texans involved.

hradhak
09-22-2010, 04:09 PM
Yeah, it wouldn't hurt my loyalty either, because it's clearly a problem all around the league and players are finding all sorts of ways either to mask these tests or to get it out of their systems by a certain time.

And this is exactly why I say that these silly 4 game punishments are a joke. That's not that big of a consequence and they need to issue out punishments of at least 12 games and then if they're caught again it should be for a full season. That right there might be enough to end a lot of people's careers. If they can't play without cheating they don't need to play at all. The consequences if you're caught have to far exceed the benefits and the risk. Four games is nothing and until they increase the punishment for positive tests of banned substances we're only going to see more people get exposed and don't be surprised if there are more high profile Texans involved.

I would only agree with increasing the penalty length in the following circumstances:

1) They removed the banned substances that are clearly not PEDs, like ephedrine.
2) The penalties meted out for Roethlisburgering someone and getting punished under the "morality" clause were increased such that they far exceed the punishments given for PEDs

In my mind sexually assaulting someone should not have the same punishment length as taking cold medicine when you're sick.

The1ApplePie
09-22-2010, 04:10 PM
Yeah, it wouldn't hurt my loyalty either, because it's clearly a problem all around the league and players are finding all sorts of ways either to mask these tests or to get it out of their systems by a certain time.

And this is exactly why I say that these silly 4 game punishments are a joke. That's not that big of a consequence and they need to issue out punishments of at least 12 games and then if they're caught again it should be for a full season. That right there might be enough to end a lot of people's careers. If they can't play without cheating they don't need to play at all. The consequences if you're caught have to far exceed the benefits and the risk. Four games is nothing and until they increase the punishment for positive tests of banned substances we're only going to see more people get exposed and don't be surprised if there are more high profile Texans involved.

Everytime I hear "steroids" I instantly think of Da Raiders D-Line of the 1980s. That was a lot of juice.

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 04:10 PM
If the playing field is level, then I don't care. I personally don't agree with the performance enhancing drug laws or rules regarding performance enhancing drugs. I mean... ephedrine? Come on, man. I'd even prefer the rules go back to the '70's regarding anabolic steroids... but that's just me.

The thing that bothers me is that we're not being smart about whatever it is we're doing. BUT... there's also no data on whether the drug tests that were failed are the same.

All we have is what the guys say. Cushing said he doesn't know how he tested positive. Duane Brown says he knows what supplement he took that he shouldn't have and won't do it again.

These are two very different cases... at least from this perspective. So treating them as if they're the same sort of failure at this point is a little premature.

Unfortunately, TPN, ephedrine (a controlled substance) or its lesser pure and potent pseudephrine is the key ingredient of METH (methamphetamine).

infantrycak
09-22-2010, 04:12 PM
You must have missed my earlier posts.

Apparently.

However, in order to make a judgement, we have to know what the banned substance was.

Doesn't sound like the same thing since hcg is injected (in connection with steroids) and Brown is referring to what sounds like an ingested supplement. There are supplements and diet drugs that have hcg but there is no proof it is not metabolized such that it does not raise the level in urine. To the contrary from CnD it appears oral hcg is basically a waste of time and won't elevate urine levels.

hradhak
09-22-2010, 04:14 PM
Unfortunately, TPN, ephedrine (a controlled substance) or its lesser pure and potent pseudephrine is the key ingredient of METH (methamphetamine).

True, but how can you prove that he was doing meth vs. he had a cold and needed some relief?

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 04:19 PM
Unfortunately, TPN, ephedrine (a controlled substance) or its lesser pure and potent pseudephrine is the key ingredient of METH (methamphetamine).

Oh, no. I know that.

And I also know that ephedrine (aka mahuang) really does improve performance because it acts like a mild shot of adrenaline. The ECA (ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin aka primatene tablets, stay awake pills, and baby aspirin) stack has been popular for a long time among lifters because of that.

But pseudo-ephedrine is packed into a lot of OTC drugs and it's pretty easy to accidentally take it and be in violation of the rules.

I think ephedrine and pseudo-ephedrine should only be illegal when it's being bought in bulk with the intention of creating methamphetamine. I think OTC ephedrine back in the day helped a lot of people feel better and its sad that it got caught up in the meth fallout.

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 04:26 PM
It bothers me when I guy is caught with a PED, but not because they're "cheating" necessarily, but because they're hurting the team. Players get suspended all the time, we just don't hear about it unless it happens to our team. Cushing was an exception because he drug out his appeal process over a year.

I think the NFL has gone way overboard with the testing policy. Who's to say that these players couldn't get a banned substance in their system by accident? Poppy seeds can cause a false positive drug test for opiods. The NFL also has a ludicrous appeals process - one in which even reasonable doubt means nothing.

I am not saying that Cushing or Duane Brown are innocent. I just think the NFL has gone overboard with drug testing and they take a guilty until proven innocent approach to appeals.

Just an FYI.

In 2008, the Department of Health and Human Services reported a study that examined the results of 317,500 urine specimens that were tested for opiates and reviewed by three Medical Review Officer groups, as well as 1.1 million specimens from five certified laboratories. The MRO’s reportedly reversed 87% of all the positive urinalysis test results due to false positives attributed to poppy seed ingestion, prescription medication, or other reasons.

The laboratory results showed that approximately 81% of the specimens that tested positive for codeine and morphine had concentration levels under 2,000 ng/ml. As a result, the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) guidelines have been amended and cut-off levels for opiates have been increased to 2,000 ng/ml. The US military along with all the major anti doping organizations have set the cut-off level at 3,000 ng/ml to avoid all false positive results.

Hair analysis is a more accurate means of testing for heroin use as it is impossible for poppy seed ingestion to produce a false positive result. That’s because the opioid in poppy seeds does not stay in the bloodstream long enough or in high enough concentrations to be trapped inside hair follicles in measurable quantities.

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 04:34 PM
Oh, no. I know that.

And I also know that ephedrine (aka mahuang) really does improve performance because it acts like a mild shot of adrenaline. The ECA (ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin aka primatene tablets, stay awake pills, and baby aspirin) stack has been popular for a long time among lifters because of that.

But pseudo-ephedrine is packed into a lot of OTC drugs and it's pretty easy to accidentally take it and be in violation of the rules.

I think ephedrine and pseudo-ephedrine should only be illegal when it's being bought in bulk with the intention of creating methamphetamine. I think OTC ephedrine back in the day helped a lot of people feel better and its sad that it got caught up in the meth fallout.


Not arguing with you. Ephedrine and pseudephedrine have their place in combination medication. But, on the other hand, their cardiovascular stimilatory effects have been strongly linked to many instances of stroke and heart attack, including significant numbers in high school, college and professional athletes.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 04:49 PM
I would only agree with increasing the penalty length in the following circumstances:

1) They removed the banned substances that are clearly not PEDs, like ephedrine.
2) The penalties meted out for Roethlisburgering someone and getting punished under the "morality" clause were increased such that they far exceed the punishments given for PEDs

In my mind sexually assaulting someone should not have the same punishment length as taking cold medicine when you're sick.

I don't even know why Ben's ordeal is even being mentioned here. It has nothing to do with PED's or steroids or anything like that.

ANd for the last time, the people trying to villify Ben have absolutely nothing on the guy. He was never even charged with a crime and his accusers and their accusations came off as uncredible as anything I've ever heard. Their stories changed repeatedly and one of them didn't even come out until months later when it allegedly happened. I have a big problem with people being suspended on baseless accusations by irresponsible women who come off as liars to me. I don't think Ben should have been suspended at all personally, but that's neither here nor there and this thread is not about Ben and I don't care to discuss him any further.

This is about banned substances and the problem that's getting worse from the players who are abusing it and the NFL's lack of punishment consequences that aren't really scaring the players enough to make them stop using.

El Tejano
09-22-2010, 04:52 PM
I don't even know why Ben's ordeal is even being mentioned here. It has nothing to do with PED's or steroids or anything like that.

ANd for the last time, the people trying to villify Ben have absolutely nothing on the guy. He was never even charged with a crime and his accusers and their accusations came off as uncredible as anything I've ever heard. Their stories changed repeatedly and one of them didn't even come out until months later when it allegedly happened. I have a big problem with people being suspended on baseless accusations by irresponsible women who come off as liars to me.

The why does Ben feel the need to change his life/behanvior so much?

Dutchrudder
09-22-2010, 05:03 PM
The why does Ben feel the need to change his life/behanvior so much?

Because it gets him back in 4 games instead of 6. He's just playing the Goodell game right now.

I hadn't really read the latest on this article until Tex's post reminded me of it. I found a good article that seems to lay out the facts and testimony very well. I think the most important fact of the case is that the alleged victim didn't have enough male DNA extracted from her with the rape kit to yield a DNA profile of her assailant, which likely means nothing happened.


Consider the statement from Fred Bright, the Georgia DA who decided not to prosecute the case:

"The crime of rape has three elements: sexual intercourse, which requires penetration, forcibly, and against her will. All three elements, I’ve got a problem proving all three of those."

Now let that sink in for a moment. They couldn't even confirm that sexual intercourse took place, and that, if it did, they couldn't prove "penetration" nor could they prove it was against her will. It's hard to say that Ben got away with a rape, when you can't even prove the alleged victim was raped at all.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/450454-why-ben-roethlisberger-should-never-have-been-suspended-at-all

gary
09-22-2010, 05:28 PM
Butler will start as he should but I have a question. I personally am pro legal drug use in the NFL and probably in sports period which is a thread for another day. I have heard there are lots of players are using something in order to help their bodies in some form and finding out how to get around the testing or they would not play as well as they play. Really, is there any merit to that argument? Who thinks so? Untill this stuff is approved though it should stop of course.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 05:31 PM
The why does Ben feel the need to change his life/behanvior so much?

That's called towing the line and being politically correct.

If you want to discuss Ben with me, then PM me about that though. I already stated that I have no desire to discuss him and this thread has nothing to do with him.

This is about the NFL's policy on how they punish offenders of banned substances and how ineffective it is because it's getting our most important players on our team out of games.

Grams
09-22-2010, 06:23 PM
This is about the NFL's policy on how they punish offenders of banned substances and how ineffective it is because it's getting our most important players on our team out of games.


The substance abuse policy is not getting our players out of games. The players are getting themselves out of games.

I believe the NFL has a list of supplements that are ok to take. If one takes something that is not on that list or has not been checked for prohibited substances, it is the players fault.

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 06:32 PM
Butler will start as he should but I have a question. I personally am pro legal drug use in the NFL and probably in sports period which is a thread for another day. I have heard there are lots of players are using something in order to help their bodies in some form and finding out how to get around the testing or they would not play as well as they play. Really, is there any merit to that argument? Who thinks so? Untill this stuff is approved though it should stop of course.

Well, obviously, if they are performance enhancing drugs then the player should perform better while taking them. And it's not just about getting bigger and stronger and faster, it's also about getting HEALTHIER. If used properly, some steroids can help players recover from injuries quicker and even make them less susceptible to injury.

I have no proof of this but I'm pretty sure that a lot of players are taking steroids (and other scheduled drugs) and then using masking agents so that they can pass the test. They've got to be careful that the masking agents they take are undetectable or unknown.

So, a running back taking performance enhancing drugs can improve their burst through the hole and their ability to absorb damage. A lineman can get bigger and their hands can get quicker. Linebackers can get faster and stronger. Etc.

If we took all these guys off whatever drugs they're taking, then the game would change. Guys wouldn't be as fast. Guys wouldn't be as strong. The game would still be just as exciting. As long as everyone is pretty much doing the same sorts of things and the playing field is level, the game is going to be relatively the same.

Texecutioner
09-22-2010, 06:50 PM
The substance abuse policy is not getting our players out of games. The players are getting themselves out of games.

I believe the NFL has a list of supplements that are ok to take. If one takes something that is not on that list or has not been checked for prohibited substances, it is the players fault.

You didn't seem to get the point of my post at all.

I know it's the players fault. My point is that the consequences for taking these substances is not fierce enough. Four games missed for taking performance enhancers is cheating and that's not nearly a harsh enough punishment. We're giving these guys a slap on the wrist and they aren't worried about a Four game suspension if they're caught. They look at it like if they can get away with it and have a huge season, then they can have a big pay day and signing bonus after the fact as long as they're not caught. If they are caught it's just a four game suspension and that's not even a big deal. The policy is weak and the players don't respect it.

gary
09-22-2010, 07:08 PM
Well, obviously, if they are performance enhancing drugs then the player should perform better while taking them. And it's not just about getting bigger and stronger and faster, it's also about getting HEALTHIER. If used properly, some steroids can help players recover from injuries quicker and even make them less susceptible to injury.

I have no proof of this but I'm pretty sure that a lot of players are taking steroids (and other scheduled drugs) and then using masking agents so that they can pass the test. They've got to be careful that the masking agents they take are undetectable or unknown.

So, a running back taking performance enhancing drugs can improve their burst through the hole and their ability to absorb damage. A lineman can get bigger and their hands can get quicker. Linebackers can get faster and stronger. Etc.

If we took all these guys off whatever drugs they're taking, then the game would change. Guys wouldn't be as fast. Guys wouldn't be as strong. The game would still be just as exciting. As long as everyone is pretty much doing the same sorts of things and the playing field is level, the game is going to be relatively the same.I am just posting some of the stuff I have heard. I hope if masking agents are being used the players are careful and they probably are. Just because the word is out there does not mean its true. I just would not be shocked if it were.

Thorn
09-22-2010, 07:14 PM
Well, let's not kid ourselves about this. These players will do whatever it takes to get an edge. Some get caught, some don't. If it was an "accident", then they brought it on themselves just as much as if it wasn't.

I'm just hoping this is the last surprise we get this season.

ChampionTexan
09-22-2010, 07:16 PM
You didn't seem to get the point of my post at all.

I know it's the players fault. My point is that the consequences for taking these substances is not fierce enough. Four games missed for taking performance enhancers is cheating and that's not nearly a harsh enough punishment. We're giving these guys a slap on the wrist and they aren't worried about a Four game suspension if they're caught. They look at it like if they can get away with it and have a huge season, then they can have a big pay day and signing bonus after the fact as long as they're not caught. If they are caught it's just a four game suspension and that's not even a big deal. The policy is weak and the players don't respect it.

I don't really have a problem with the 4 game suspension for the first time offenders. PED offenders get that suspension after the first positive test, while those testing positive for controlled substances that do not fall under the classification of a PED (marijuana as one example) receive at least one warning before any suspension is given out.

Additionally, a second positive for PED's results in a harsher suspension, and while I probably do favor something more punitive than the 8 game (minimum) suspension that currently exists, I don't really have a problem waiting for the second positive to really lower the boom on these guys.

wagonhed
09-22-2010, 07:43 PM
I'd put money down that Cushing and Brown aren't the only Texans taking PEDs, but I hope to god they are the last two to get caught. Sigh.

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 07:47 PM
Well, let's not kid ourselves about this. These players will do whatever it takes to get an edge. Some get caught, some don't. If it was an "accident", then they brought it on themselves just as much as if it wasn't.

I'm just hoping this is the last surprise we get this season.

I just go back to the olympic athletes who were asked if they'd trade 5 years of life (or a year or something) for a gold medal and almost all of them said that they would.

If you're an elite athlete, then you're probably willing to sacrifice quite a bit to be at the top of your game. And that's just the way it is. If an athlete isn't like that, then all of us would be saying that they don't have a strong will to win or the right attitude or something like that.

PHAROAH
09-22-2010, 08:06 PM
Man when are these young Brothers are going to learn to handle there business now he is hurting the team when we need him the most.

infantrycak
09-22-2010, 08:35 PM
I don't really have a problem with the 4 game suspension for the first time offenders. PED offenders get that suspension after the first positive test, while those testing positive for controlled substances that do not fall under the classification of a PED (marijuana as one example) receive at least one warning before any suspension is given out.

Additionally, a second positive for PED's results in a harsher suspension, and while I probably do favor something more punitive than the 8 game (minimum) suspension that currently exists, I don't really have a problem waiting for the second positive to really lower the boom on these guys.

Where do you get this distinction? Cushing is a first time offender and did not test positive for a PED and is suspended.

ChampionTexan
09-22-2010, 09:14 PM
Where do you get this distinction? Cushing is a first time offender and did not test positive for a PED and is suspended.

We may be talking semantics - all I'm trying to do is differentiate the policy Cushing and Brown's violation falls under compared to the violation(s) on the part of Ricky Williams (As an example).

HcG isn't in and of itself a PED, but it falls under the umbrella of the the NFL's "Performing-enhancing substance" policy and is specifically included in the substances listed in the "Policy on anabolic steroids and related substances" This is a different policy than a player testing positive for marijuana would fall under.

Here's the opening sentence from an article on NFL.com on Cushing's suspension:

The NFL announced Friday that Houston Texans linebacker Brian Cushing received a four-game suspension for violating its policy on performance-enhancing substances.

LINK (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81802fd9/article/texans-lb-cushing-violates-nfl-drug-policy-suspended-four-games)

gtexan02
09-22-2010, 10:11 PM
I don't really have a problem with the 4 game suspension for the first time offenders. PED offenders get that suspension after the first positive test, while those testing positive for controlled substances that do not fall under the classification of a PED (marijuana as one example) receive at least one warning before any suspension is given out.

Additionally, a second positive for PED's results in a harsher suspension, and while I probably do favor something more punitive than the 8 game (minimum) suspension that currently exists, I don't really have a problem waiting for the second positive to really lower the boom on these guys.

I thought a second positive was an automatic 1 year suspension.

Tanard Jackson of the Bucs just got busted for the 2nd time in a year and he's out indefiniately

devo-x
09-22-2010, 10:32 PM
Just noticed this comment from http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/cowboys-prepare-for-their-super-bowl

"Duane Brown is a below average LT because of the sacks and QB pressures allowed. The Texans run at the left tackle less than 20% of time. It probably took Rick Dennison 20 minutes to game plan for Brown's loss. I don't think they miss a beat with Brown being out."

gtexan02
09-22-2010, 10:46 PM
Just noticed this comment from http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/cowboys-prepare-for-their-super-bowl

"Duane Brown is a below average LT because of the sacks and QB pressures allowed. The Texans run at the left tackle less than 20% of time. It probably took Rick Dennison 20 minutes to game plan for Brown's loss. I don't think they miss a beat with Brown being out."

Coaches have been very high on Brown.

But if he is that bad, what does that say about Butler?

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2010, 10:46 PM
I thought a second positive was an automatic 1 year suspension.

Tanard Jackson of the Bucs just got busted for the 2nd time in a year and he's out indefiniately

In the Substance Abuse program, there are stages of treatment/consequences. The first stage does not involve suspension, just a fine and counseling/treatment. Then if the player remains clean, he is advanced to the second stage of continued "treatment" and repeated unannounced testing. If there is one positive test or show of noncompliance to treatment or testing in this stage, a fine and 4 month suspension......if a second positive test or show of noncompliance to treatment or testing then a six month suspension and immediate referral to the third stage. If there is a repeat offense in this stage (in which the player will remain for the remainder of his NFL career), the player will be suspended from the NFL for a minimum period of one calendar year


Jackson has infracted many more times than made public (a condition of privacy, involving intermediate step details, binding both parties). Public statements on the part of the NFL are limited to identifying suspensions and under which player policy they occur.

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 10:56 PM
Just noticed this comment from http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/cowboys-prepare-for-their-super-bowl

"Duane Brown is a below average LT because of the sacks and QB pressures allowed. The Texans run at the left tackle less than 20% of time. It probably took Rick Dennison 20 minutes to game plan for Brown's loss. I don't think they miss a beat with Brown being out."

According to Football Outsiders:

Left End - 13%
Left Tackle - 13%
Middle - 31%
Right Tackle - 16%
Right End - 26%

So, I'd really consider that 26% going to the left vs. 42% going to the right. So we are a run right oriented team.

We are more right running than any team in the league. The only other teams that run right >39% of the time are basically the Colts and Lions. And the Giants, Seahawks, and Bears run right over 35% of the time.

So... yeah, I think we'll do what Kubiak said and just continue to do exactly what we've been doing.

THE NFL
09-22-2010, 11:12 PM
No matter how you slice it or spin it.. losing Brown isnt a good thing. If Brown is bad and his backup couldnt unseat him then its not a good thing.

Its happening at about the best time possible for the Texans, unless Ware takes Matt's head off. Matt Schaub took a pretty good pounding in Washington and he may be about to take another one. I dont know how much of that he can take. Demarcus Ware isnt someone to play with.

TexansForTheW
09-22-2010, 11:21 PM
According to Football Outsiders:

Left End - 13%
Left Tackle - 13%
Middle - 31%
Right Tackle - 16%
Right End - 26%

So, I'd really consider that 26% going to the left vs. 42% going to the right. So we are a run right oriented team.

We are more right running than any team in the league. The only other teams that run right >39% of the time are basically the Colts and Lions. And the Giants, Seahawks, and Bears run right over 35% of the time.

So... yeah, I think we'll do what Kubiak said and just continue to do exactly what we've been doing.

The Texans have an above average line in the running game. They are learning the zone blocking system and it is important we establish the run. Play action passes should keep the pressure off of Matt, and if we can do half of what we did to Indy to the Cowboys we should be fine. I know it was just preseason, but it was really nice to see our line completely manhandle the Cowboys. If we can keep the Cowboys off balance by being balanced, we can make LT less of a weakness.

THE NFL
09-23-2010, 01:22 AM
The Texans have not yet proven they have an above average run blocking OLine. They may yet prove that, but havent yet.

Fosters game against Washington is more indicative of what to expect from the running game. That should be enough to keep defenses on their toes.

The Texans are a passing team, period. Thats their bread and butter and what they are really good at. Better than anyone at passing the ball.

They just need an average run game to be very good on offense. But the biggest impact will be in the red zone. Thats where the run game has to improve. If that happens the sky is the limit.

The Pencil Neck
09-23-2010, 02:38 AM
The Texans have not yet proven they have an above average run blocking OLine. They may yet prove that, but havent yet.

Fosters game against Washington is more indicative of what to expect from the running game. That should be enough to keep defenses on their toes.

The Texans are a passing team, period. Thats their bread and butter and what they are really good at. Better than anyone at passing the ball.

They just need an average run game to be very good on offense. But the biggest impact will be in the red zone. Thats where the run game has to improve. If that happens the sky is the limit.

I know that the final stats don't show Foster as having that great of a game against the Redskins, but his final two runs in overtime were for almost no yards just to kinda get the ball in the right place for the kicker. He was concentrating so hard on not fumbling the ball that he didn't really try to gain yards. If you take those two carries away, he had 17 carries for 69 yards and a 4 ypc average... which is OK.

For most of the game, he was getting good runs on that Washington defense. If we hadn't gotten behind so early, he would have had a lot more yards. I think we can expect at least 80-90 yards per game with him and possibly more. (If he gets that many yards per game, he'll end up with 1400-1600 yards.)

His running in the red zone really helped us even if he didn't end up with the TD's to show for it in that Redskin game. The defense had to honor those fakes.

gtexan02
09-23-2010, 07:53 AM
I know that the final stats don't show Foster as having that great of a game against the Redskins, but his final two runs in overtime were for almost no yards just to kinda get the ball in the right place for the kicker. He was concentrating so hard on not fumbling the ball that he didn't really try to gain yards. If you take those two carries away, he had 17 carries for 69 yards and a 4 ypc average... which is OK.

For most of the game, he was getting good runs on that Washington defense. If we hadn't gotten behind so early, he would have had a lot more yards. I think we can expect at least 80-90 yards per game with him and possibly more. (If he gets that many yards per game, he'll end up with 1400-1600 yards.)

His running in the red zone really helped us even if he didn't end up with the TD's to show for it in that Redskin game. The defense had to honor those fakes.

I personally thought foster had a great game. He was gashing them for 5 yards per carry throughout most of the game.

Towards the end, they started to shut him down a little more. He didn't break a really long one to counter the few no yarders.

To clarify the last point, I believe we were lined up on the right hashmark and Foster ran right twice after that. We kicked from that hashmark for the game winner. i dont think he was lining up the kicker

ChampionTexan
09-23-2010, 08:03 AM
I personally thought foster had a great game. He was gashing them for 5 yards per carry throughout most of the game.

Towards the end, they started to shut him down a little more. He didn't break a really long one to counter the few no yarders.

To clarify the last point, I believe we were lined up on the right hashmark and Foster ran right twice after that. We kicked from that hashmark for the game winner. i dont think he was lining up the kicker

I think we started close the left hash-mark, but I'm positive the spot of the ball on the last play prior to the field goal attempt was between the hash-marks. One of the commentators for CBS even made the comment after Foster's final carry of the game that it was clear they wanted to kick from the right hash-mark.

gtexan02
09-23-2010, 08:05 AM
I think we started close the left hash-mark, but I'm positive the spot of the ball on the last play prior to the field goal attempt was between the hash-marks. One of the commentators for CBS even made the comment after Foster's final carry of the game that it was clear they wanted to kick from the right hash-mark.

Maybe you're right. I remember seeing him run way right and wondering why they weren't trying to put it in the middle

CloakNNNdagger
09-23-2010, 08:27 AM
I think we started close the left hash-mark, but I'm positive the spot of the ball on the last play prior to the field goal attempt was between the hash-marks. One of the commentators for CBS even made the comment after Foster's final carry of the game that it was clear they wanted to kick from the right hash-mark.

This is exactly how it happened. The ball was ultimately positioned near the right hash mark in order to better accommodate Rackers' sidewinder approach.

THE NFL
09-23-2010, 09:07 AM
Pencil.. then we agree, except I dont think he will average 80-90 or more. Because teams do get behind and have to pass. Because there are some really good defenses coming up for the Texans and Foster may only get 25 yards.

The Texans are going to lose a few games. In those games Foster is likely to get nada. Thats my point. I stick to my earlier projection. Foster will end up with around 1300 yards, which is very good. But its the TD's that matter. Its how he is able to run inside the Red Zone that matters for this team. This team doesnt need a 1600 yard back.

CloakNNNdagger
09-23-2010, 01:04 PM
Last week prior to the injury to the Bears' LT, Cutler was getting knocked around. After their LT was replaced, Cutler flourished. Interestingly enough, the Bears moved their RT to replace their injured LT.

I think that Butler (who also plays RT) will give us the same stabilizing result.

Ole Miss Texan
09-23-2010, 03:02 PM
Any idea what "substance" it was that made him fail the test?

CloakNNNdagger
09-23-2010, 04:09 PM
Any idea what "substance" it was that made him fail the test?

That information can and will only be released with the player's approval.

Number19
10-17-2010, 11:06 PM
Duane Brown is eligible to return to the team tomorrow.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Texans-T-Brown-suspended-for-four-games/962ec526-46e8-4e59-abcb-7aa41cd584ae

El Tejano
10-17-2010, 11:39 PM
I expect our run game to be alot better.

awtysst
10-18-2010, 09:11 AM
Duane Brown can return today!!!

hradhak
10-18-2010, 09:23 AM
Something on the Fox OT show confused me. Players suspended for personal problems (Ben Rothlisberger) cannot practice with the team, but players with PED suspensions can? I thought that no player suspended could practice with the team. Maybe I misheard?

GP
10-18-2010, 09:24 AM
Last week prior to the injury to the Bears' LT, Cutler was getting knocked around. After their LT was replaced, Cutler flourished. Interestingly enough, the Bears moved their RT to replace their injured LT.

I think that Butler (who also plays RT) will give us the same stabilizing result.

Was it a guy with the last name Webb? He's from my alma mater (West Texas A&M University) and he plays oline as a rookie this year for the Bears...but was like 2nd on the depth chart when the season started.

GP
10-18-2010, 09:26 AM
Whichever guy on here had been clamoring for Butler (back during camp) and saying he thought he was going to someday have a breakthrough and be good....well, that theory has been put to bed IMO.

Duane Brown, though not exactly a world beater himself, is a better fit there.

Hardcore Texan
10-18-2010, 09:31 AM
Duane Brown is eligible to return to the team tomorrow.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Texans-T-Brown-suspended-for-four-games/962ec526-46e8-4e59-abcb-7aa41cd584ae

Duane Brown can return today!!!

Awesome!