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Caw Daddy
03-21-2005, 01:59 PM
morlon greenwood, some LB from miami who i know, and you can hold me to this, will never do much for us is going to make more money than some LB(hartwell) from baltimore who made his name known while playing with the likes of ray lewis, peter boulware, ed reed, terrell suggs and chris mcalister.. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON. who really knew anything about greenwood before we signed him?

Lucky
03-21-2005, 02:07 PM
...who really knew anything about greenwood before we signed him?
Charley Casserly & Dom Capers.

texasguy346
03-21-2005, 02:10 PM
I suspect if he is successful and becomes a playmaker for our defense there will be plenty of people coming out of the woodwork exclaiming "I knew it all along! I told you he'd be great!" :whistle:

ThaShark316
03-21-2005, 02:12 PM
morlon greenwood, some LB from miami who i know, and you can hold me to this, will never do much for us is going to make more money than some LB(hartwell) from baltimore who made his name known while playing with the likes of ray lewis, peter boulware, ed reed, terrell suggs and chris mcalister.. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON. who really knew anything about greenwood before we signed him?



BALLGAME! How do you know he won't produce, you got a crystal ball? Since u are the 2nd coming of miss cleo...tell me the Rockets finishing record along with the Astros. :listening


But since u brought it up....Greenwood is a nice LB, very underrated. Hartwell is nice too, that said though, he's post-Ray Lewis production worries me.

keyfro
03-21-2005, 02:23 PM
just to clear this up...greenwood is NOT making more money than hartwell...greenwood's contract is for 22.5 million and hartwell's is 26.5 million

Blake
03-21-2005, 02:37 PM
just to clear this up...greenwood is NOT making more money than hartwell...greenwood's contract is for 22.5 million and hartwell's is 26.5 million...do your research before you start blasting people

Actually Greenwoods 22.5 mil contract is for 5 years. An average of 4.5 million a year. 7 mil signing bonus.

Hartwell is at 26.25 mil a year. 4.375 million a year. 8 mil signing bonus.

Im going to wait until after a season or two to make a decision on who was a better signing.

bckey
03-21-2005, 02:38 PM
I think part of his point is that Hartwell comes from a 3-4 defense and has played very well in it. Greenwood comes from a 4-3 and is relatively unknown. The contract difference between the 2 doesn't amount to a whole lot. My guess is Greenwood has more speed which is what we are after but is it enough to justify the contract we gave him? We will have to wait and see I suppose. Greenwood was drafted 88th in 2001 and Hartwell was drafted 126th the same draft.

I don't agree with Caw Daddy though. I think Greenwood will most likely excel in our 3-4 defense.



Pro Summary: Hartwell

Chosen by Sports Illustrated as the NFL’s best LB to stuff the run on 4th-and-inches plays, Hartwell is a throwback who can fight through the blocks of the G and C…Finished 2nd on the team with 140 tackles, and added 3 sacks, 5 PDs, 2 FFs and 1 INT in 2003…Led the team with 191 tackles in 2002, becoming the only player other than Ray Lewis to lead the team in tackles in franchise history…Hard-nosed player who enjoyed a breakout season in 2002…Named AFC Player of the Week after he led the team with 15 tackles in a 13-12 win over Tennessee in game 11…Saw action in 16 games and 2 postseason games in 2001…Recorded 9 total special teams tackles…Selected by the Ravens as their 4th-round pick (126th overall) in the 2001 NFL Draft.


PRO:Greenwood

Quick, athletic and versatile linebacker who excels sideline to sideline…also possesses tremendous coverage skills for a ‘backer…signed by the Texans as an unrestricted free agent on 3/3/05 after four solid seasons in Miami…looking to transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense…coming off a career year in 2004, one in which he started 15 games and racked up a career-high 133 tackles…can boast 358 career stops and three sacks…has missed just two games over first four seasons, starting 52 of 62 career games (44 at strongside linebacker, eight at weakside linebacker)…originally drafted by the Dolphins in the third round (88th overall) of the 2001 NFL Draft.

pittbull
03-21-2005, 02:38 PM
Greenwood was a pretty good LB at Miami. Do some fail to realize they had some stud defensive players that could have overshadowed the guy? Taylor, Thomas, Seau, Surtain, and some other Pro bowlers! Miami's defense was pretty good all year with a horrible offense. I think he'll come in and everyone will be saying this was a great signing. Good attitude, unlike Hartwell, Fast, and able to hit the holes quicker that Foreman or Sharper! :thumbup

D-ReK
03-21-2005, 02:44 PM
Just curious, but what has Hartwell ever done in his career besides get a lot of tackles and play beside Ray Lewis? His stats aren't that much better than Foreman's, but then again stats can be misleading...

I'm still wondering...

blockhead83
03-21-2005, 02:45 PM
A guy like Hartwell was probably looking to sign with a SB contender (Atlanta). For the Texans to sign him we may have had to pay him a considerable amount more than the Falcons did.

TheOgre
03-21-2005, 02:49 PM
I think we might have overpaid for Greenwood. While he might pan out, I don't think we had to pay him as much as we did. I think we were bidding against ourselves (I could be wrong). I get the impression Casserly paid that much to make sure we got him (like Wiegert in 2003 and Wade and Robaire Smith in 2004). The team wants speed and that is the one ability Greenwood has. I'm not saying that he isn't worth that money; I'm saying we probably didn't have to pay him that much.

D-ReK
03-21-2005, 02:51 PM
The Texans are still an unproven franchise and most FAs want to go to winners, so until we become serious playoff contenders, we're going to have to overpay for average players...That said, I think Greenwood is a great fit for our system, and I hope he blossoms into something special here...

DoCt3rJ
03-21-2005, 03:14 PM
I think Greenwood will be better. He's quicker, faster, and more athletic. He tackles surely, and hits hard. While Hartwell might be a little bit more steady at tackling Greenwood brings alot more to the plate for us. Players are going to be overpaid, when are you people gonna get this through your head? It's been happening for years, team's overpaying players for years, come on... next topic.

Vinny
03-21-2005, 04:18 PM
Hartwell has to come out of the game in passing situations. He is a 2 down linebacker. Greenwood has nearly the opposite profile with his strengths in coverage and will not have to come off the field in passing situations.

You guys need to put links in your cut-n-pastes or they will not stand. Thanks

Caw Daddy
03-21-2005, 04:30 PM
im standing firm on greenwood being depth and not the stud we need.

D-ReK
03-21-2005, 04:31 PM
im standing firm on greenwood being depth and not the stud we need.


..and who is the guy we need?

Grid
03-21-2005, 04:38 PM
Ray Lewis of course. Go get him Casserly or we will have you fired.

Blake
03-21-2005, 04:38 PM
im standing firm on greenwood being depth and not the stud we need.

Well we have our run stuffer in Sharper. Cover LB in Greenwood, and pass rushing LBs in Babin, and Wong/Peek. I hope we pick up a OLB in round 1/2 like Merriman, or Ware.

Grid
03-21-2005, 04:40 PM
I still think Sharper will be gone.

texasguy346
03-21-2005, 06:04 PM
Well we have our run stuffer in Sharper. Cover LB in Greenwood, and pass rushing LBs in Babin, and Wong/Peek. I hope we pick up a OLB in round 1/2 like Merriman, or Ware.

I'd love to have Merriman or Ware. They both look like good prospects, and I hope Peek earns a starting spot this year. Then we could use Merriman or Ware in pass rushing situations.

FILO_girl
03-21-2005, 08:58 PM
I still think Sharper will be gone.

KEEP JAMIE SHARPER!!! :woot
He has been good to and for us.
Keep that in mind when making your "releases" Casserly............. :shocked

TexansTrueFan
03-21-2005, 09:50 PM
KEEP JAMIE SHARPER!!! :woot
He has been good to and for us.
Keep that in mind when making your "releases" Casserly............. :shocked


I TOTALLY AGREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup

outofhnd
03-21-2005, 10:22 PM
We havent released him yet he still has 1 year left on his contract.

With that in mind I am hoping he doesn't leave the team this year Greenwood could use the onfield mentoring until he full grasps this 3-4 scheme.

I hope We get a DL in the draft this year we need some youth there as well.

Caw Daddy
03-22-2005, 02:04 PM
..and who is the guy we need?
We need to start peek, babin on the outsides, greenwood wong on the inside, and trade dd sharper and aaron glenn to the bears for their 1st rounder

D-ReK
03-22-2005, 02:13 PM
trade dd sharper and aaron glenn to the bears for their 1st rounder

:woot That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard...That cap hit would be ungodly and DD + Sharper + Glenn wouldn't even be close to worth the 4th overall pick...

But hey, I'll give you credit for the creativity...

ThaShark316
03-22-2005, 02:13 PM
We need to start peek, babin on the outsides, greenwood wong on the inside, and trade dd sharper and aaron glenn to the bears for their 1st rounder


LOL @ DD,Sharper and Glenn....

THIS AINT THE NBA, HOMIE. Calm ya self down, kid. :whistle:

infantrycak
03-22-2005, 02:32 PM
:woot That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard...That cap hit would be ungodly and DD + Sharper + Glenn wouldn't even be close to worth the 4th overall pick...

But hey, I'll give you credit for the creativity...

Horrible trade idea. Just for clarity on the cap if these players were cut/traded--DD $110k dead space, Sharper $1.325 mil and Glenn $4.2 mil.

shinerbock_girl
03-22-2005, 03:33 PM
KEEP JAMIE SHARPER!!! :woot
He has been good to and for us.
Keep that in mind when making your "releases" Casserly............. :shocked

I definately agree because i love Sharper also...Hes awesome....But it seems he wants out and doesn't want to be a Texans anymore...As much as i admire and respect this guy, i also would rather have someone who wants to be a Texan....I wish he WANTED to stay soo bad...

Blake
03-22-2005, 03:50 PM
I definately agree because i love Sharper also...Hes awesome....But it seems he wants out and doesn't want to be a Texans anymore...As much as i admire and respect this guy, i also would rather have someone who wants to be a Texan....I wish he WANTED to stay soo bad...

Sharper, IMO, is not worth the trade for a pick. You cant get more than a 3rd rounder for him. Who is going to replace him in the 3rd round? Adam Seward?

You are going to get more bang for the buck just by playing him in your defense.

The only alternative that I think is worth it, is to trade Sharper plus a 3rd round pick, and go back up into the 2nd round, and grab a player like Odell Thurman.

Grid
03-22-2005, 04:07 PM
Ill repeat what I just typed in the other thread on sharper. he has said, flat out, that he wants to be released or traded.

He is on the wrong side of 30, and this is his last year. HE WONT BE HERE NEXT YEAR. With that in mind, id rather trade him for SOMETHING now.. a 3rd, a 4th, even a 5th.. get some kind of return for him because he will be gone next season, and id rather get something for him now and make due for a season, than have him play one more year, take up cap space, and leave.


Think of him the same way you would think about us signing a high priced, old veteran FA. Are we really one player away from the playoffs? dont we need depth/help at a lot of positions? we are still building this team, and Sharper is not part of our future.. so lets get something for him now.

In my ideal situation.. we will use him as a bargaining chip to either trade down, or up, on draft day. To help insure that we get another second rounder, or to move us into the top 10 without having to give up more than a 3rd.

Blake
03-22-2005, 04:52 PM
Ill repeat what I just typed in the other thread on sharper. he has said, flat out, that he wants to be released or traded.

Thats fine. But he doesnt get to decide his fate. Unless he just sits. Which I dont think he would.

He is on the wrong side of 30, and this is his last year. HE WONT BE HERE NEXT YEAR. With that in mind, id rather trade him for SOMETHING now.. a 3rd, a 4th, even a 5th.. get some kind of return for him because he will be gone next season, and id rather get something for him now and make due for a season, than have him play one more year, take up cap space, and leave.

I understand that you would like to trade him in the draft, or for picks since he is going to walk next year, but If we are going to make the playoffs this year, dont we need some solid vets? Dont we need a defense that isnt starting 2 rookies?

Realistically we have a good shot at the playoffs, or even more this year. And we need a strong presence in the middle of that D. Not a rookie.

How many rookies have you seen knock down the QB, knock the ball loose, recover it, and score a TD on one single play?

But if we do trade sharper, it better be for a high 3rd, or so that we move back into the 2nd round with one of our 3rd rounds.

D-ReK
03-22-2005, 05:07 PM
I'm not sure if I buy this, but I do remember reading that a few head coaches had said that we had absolutely no (0) playmakers in our front 7, including Sharper...If you buy this (and I don't completely) then it's obvious why we want him out...His performance may not be worth his price...