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View Full Version : Do we underestimate Smithiak?? And is Peyton Manning the Best Ever


nytexan
09-15-2010, 07:40 PM
I was just reading a recent article by Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News and he stated the 2009 draft was the weakest draft year EVER. I couldn't help but think of the talent the Texans have added under Kubiak and who Smith picked up alone in the 2009 draft and free agency.

Cushing, Barwin (injury besides the point), starting Right Guard Caldwell, starting CB Quin, special teams gem Thor, 3rd CB McCain, an upcoming safety in Nolan, undrafted FA pickup halfback A. Foster, starting DE-DT A. Smith and picked up from the scrap heap Pollard. Holy smoly from the weakest draft ever these guys may have a draft class that may match our 2006 class. Pretty impressive I think especially if you include the free agent pickups. Does anybody wonder why we look so much better this year so far??

On another note, although it was so good to finally beat the Colts, can anyone remember a QB having such a great game while getting the pressure and getting beat up as much as Manning did Sunday?? 430 yards passing and you just know he woke up Monday morning looking for the Advil bottle after the hits he took the day before. Love em or hate em, that was an impressive performance and even if his defense looked like they threw in the towel in the 4th quarter, he never really gave up and was rallying the troops on the sideline late in that game. I may have been as impressed with this guy in a loss than I have ever been of him in a win. I don't get mushy over the opposition often but that's one of the reason's I'm so impessed with the Texans' win Sunday.

DexmanC
09-15-2010, 08:15 PM
To your questions:

Smithiak: So far, so good in 2010

Peyton: NO quarterback could've performed the way he did under the same
circumstances.

TexansFanatic
09-15-2010, 09:04 PM
Regarding Smithiak: I can't speak for anyone else, but consider me someone who is very impressed and pleased with the job these guys have done in assembling a really nice roster-----what may wind up being the core of a dynasty.

DocBar
09-15-2010, 09:10 PM
The '09 drat looks GREAT for the Texans and way back in '93 or so Joe Montana beat the Oilers with a performance of the ages. He was sacked like 13 times and had a lump the size of a grapefruit hanging off of his throwing elbow.

drs23
09-15-2010, 10:04 PM
In direct answer to the thread title: Yes & Yes.

I'm on record as having believed that Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith were going about building the team they wanted from day one. Read Rick Smith's assessment to Bob *Cheap SOB* McNair when they were on the practice field soon after being hired. He was correct then, and he's (and Gary Kubiak) done what they set out to do. Cutting the crop is the absolute worse thing McNair could have done at the end of last season. He didn't get where he is by being stupid. (I guess he did it by being cheap :roast:) Folks, we have had the pleasure and privilege of watching a dynasty being built from the ground up. Our Houston Texans will be in the fore front of proffesional football for a long, long time. Hide-n-watch. :D

As far as #18 goes...IMHO he's probably the best to ever go under center. 1st ballot HOF'er. No doubt.

houstonspartan
09-15-2010, 10:15 PM
Let's separate Smith from Kubiak.

Smith: A genius. Period.

Kubiak: Jury still out. Smart, very intelligent, but coaching still needs work. He's had one outstanding game, and he deserves credit and appears to be learning, but we'll see.

TexansFanatic
09-15-2010, 10:23 PM
Let's separate Smith from Kubiak.

Smith: A genius. Period.

Kubiak: Jury still out. Smart, very intelligent, but coaching still needs work. He's had one outstanding game, and he deserves credit and appears to be learning, but we'll see.

Smith isn't assembling the roster on his own.

Thorn
09-15-2010, 10:29 PM
Smithiak is building a good team, just not fast enough for me. I would love to eat my words on that this season.

If Peyton Manning isn't the greatest QB ever, there isn't a very long line in front of him. What Peyton Manning IS though is the greatest field general at the QB position to play the game.

Texanmike02
09-15-2010, 10:31 PM
I posted this on coltfreaks.com when I started seeing "kill manning" threads.


Look I know that my opinion is not that important but this argument seems pointless. Whether Payton pouts or looks mad, his greatness is pretty evident.

18 is the best player I've seen in my lifetime. If you want to know what reveals his greatness... it is in the film room. It is the way that he seems to see things happen before the game happens. He is easily the most cerebral player of our generation (and I go back to the Luv Ya Blu days). I was a Colts fan for about 6 years (post oilers until we got a team back) and I had like a 4 year transition (the year I stopped rooting for you guys completely was the year you won the SB). I used to dissect his games and he has always been amazing. Despite rumors to the contrary he's not one of the most physically gifted QBs in the league. In fact. He wasn't the most physically gifted QB coming out when he was drafted. Go ahead. Crucify me for that one. He's prototypical but there are guys with better arms in the league there are guys who are more mobile.... He is BAR NONE the smartest football player I've EVER seen. His dedication shows in the relationship with his receivers. That catch by Wayne in the back of the endzone doesn't happen for probably 29 of the teams in the league. The only other are Fitz and AJ. They make the catch because they are the best in the league... and you or I could throw to them.

I've been blessed to watch some great QB's Moon and Schaub down in Houston. Schaub isn't "all time great" but Moon was. Manning is 5x the QB he ever was. But its not this game that shows it. Its all of the film clips on the floor.

Durability is another sign. Bill Cowher would be proud of him. Permanent retainer holding his mouth together? Really? Leadership. obviously he has that. Those are great too. This guy literally has it ALL.

That's just a dumb texans fan's opinion.

Mike

And don't get me wrong. I hate Manning now. Just like I hated Esaison and Brister when I was an Oiler's fan. But I respect him like none other.



Best ever in my not so humble opinion.

Mike

houstonspartan
09-15-2010, 10:47 PM
Smith isn't assembling the roster on his own.

Of course not. Kubiak has influence for sure. And, Kubiak can recognize talent for the most part.

But can he COACH that same talent?

Jury is still out.

If the season tanks and someone has to be fired, it will be either Kubiak or Smith. Who do you think it will likely be?

Here's a hint: Not Smith.

And, did you read the WSJ story on Foster? He talked about how Rick Smith had a little talk with him and that gave him some insight. Bernard Pollard said the same thing, and I think a couple of other players have mentioned Rick Smith talks. What in the world is Rick Smith saying to these guys to get them re-focused and motivated?

Scooter
09-15-2010, 10:51 PM
Of course not. Kubiak has influence for sure. And, Kubiak can recognize talent for the most part.

But can he COACH that same talent?

Jury is still out.

If the season tanks and someone has to be fired, it will be either Kubiak or Smith. Who do you think it will likely be?

Here's a hint: Not Smith.

:facepalm:

houstonspartan
09-15-2010, 10:57 PM
:facepalm:

Slap your face all you want. But it's true.

TexansFanatic
09-15-2010, 10:59 PM
Of course not. Kubiak has influence for sure. And, Kubiak can recognize talent for the most part.

But can he COACH that same talent?

Jury is still out.

If the season tanks and someone has to be fired, it will be either Kubiak or Smith. Who do you think it will likely be?

Here's a hint: Not Smith.

Right, but the question in the original post concerns assessment and acquisition of talent, not coaching.

And while the 2009 draft is an excellent example of how Smith and Kubiak are able to find kernals of greatness in a heap of garbage, the 2006 draft is what most people typically point to as the turning point in the Texans development as a legitimate contender and Rick Smith was not a member of the organization at that point---but Kubiak was.

Scooter
09-15-2010, 11:01 PM
yes and yes.

i think we only need to look closer at our roster to realize how much we underestimate kubiak and smith. we have 1 player who's been part of the texans past 2006. much or possibly most of our roster hasnt been in the league since 2006. how can we have such high expectations for a team full of players that new to the franchise and that young in general without recognizing the guys who brought them in. beyond that, look at how mature and high character these guys are while also being that talented. look at how fast they're developing into the team we're yelling "playoffs or bust" about. with so many new studs from only last season as the original post points out, yeah i dont think they get enough credit.

this team isnt even in it's prime yet ... think on that.

manning's gone no worse than 12-4 since his sophmore season and has yet to miss a game. he leads a team that would be in last place with almost any other quarterback into a team threatening a perfect season every other year.

Lucky
09-15-2010, 11:12 PM
I was just reading a recent article by Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News and he stated the 2009 draft was the weakest draft year EVER. I couldn't help but think of the talent the Texans have added under Kubiak and who Smith picked up alone in the 2009 draft and free agency.
It's too early to make that assessment on the 2009 draft class. But yes, the Texans got more than their fair share out of that draft.

Let's separate Smith from Kubiak.
That's not possible. Smith doesn't make decisions in a vacuum.

Smith isn't assembling the roster on his own.
Right. Kubiak tells Smith what he needs, Smith sifts through scouting reports, and together they make the decision. Smith wouldn't be here if not for Kubiak. Both of them know that.

TexansFanatic
09-15-2010, 11:16 PM
Smith wouldn't be here if not for Kubiak. Both of them know that.

Yep. It's a unique Head Coach/General Manager relationship.

More typical is for the GM to hire the coach. In this instance, the coach hired the GM.

Usually the GM is considered the coach's boss. In this instance, the coach is the GM's boss.

I don't think Smith would have had nearly as much success with the Texans without Kubiak's help. But the 2006 draft shows us that Kubiak can do quite well without Smith.

Nawzer
09-15-2010, 11:27 PM
Fair or not GM's, coaches, teams, and players are judged upon how many playoff victories and super bowls they've won. So far, Rick Smith, Gary Kubiak and Co. have done a decent job of drafting. But ultimately it'll come down to how many playoff wins and championships they'll bring to Houston. And I don't think that an unfair standard to have. The goal is and should be to win the super bowl every year otherwise its not worth it. That's jmho.

b0ng
09-15-2010, 11:32 PM
Yep. It's a unique Head Coach/General Manager relationship.

More typical is for the GM to hire the coach. In this instance, the coach hired the GM.

Usually the GM is considered the coach's boss. In this instance, the coach is the GM's boss.

I don't think Smith would have had nearly as much success with the Texans without Kubiak's help. But the 2006 draft shows us that Kubiak can do quite well without Smith.

I don't know, it seems pretty obvious that both gents have their areas of expertise when it comes to this team. It seems more like their working relationship is one of equals, and not one being higher than the other.

drs23
09-15-2010, 11:34 PM
Fair or not GM's, coaches, teams, and players are judged upon how many playoff victories and super bowls they've won. So far, Rick Smith, Gary Kubiak and Co. have done a decent job of drafting. But ultimately it'll come down to how many playoff wins and championships they'll bring to Houston. And I don't think that an unfair standard to have. The goal is and should be to win the super bowl every year otherwise its not worth it. That's jmho.

Do not disagree with your statement. As to the bolded, pull your seat up close because it's going to be happening every Sunday! :fans:

TexansFanatic
09-15-2010, 11:37 PM
It seems more like their working relationship is one of equals, and not one being higher than the other.

I agree with you---they clearly work extremely well together.

But in any organization there's a hierarchy.

If there is a disagreement between the two of them, whose decision do you think trumps whose? I'd go with Kubiak.

drs23
09-15-2010, 11:43 PM
I agree with you---they clearly work extremely well together.

But in any organization there's a hierarchy.

If there is a disagreement between the two of them, whose decision do you think trumps whose? I'd go with Kubiak.

I'm by no means a soaper so don't take this that way but, if someone gets walking papers, who's handing them out? Just addressing the "hierarchy" view.

b0ng
09-15-2010, 11:44 PM
I agree with you---they clearly work extremely well together.

But in any organization there's a hierarchy.

If there is a disagreement between the two of them, whose decision do you think trumps whose? I'd go with Kubiak.

Honestly, I imagine they would take any issue they couldn't hammer out between themselves to Bob. But honestly, they overlap some but I don't think Smith is going to tell Kubiak he's misusing fresh blood or that Kubiak would tell Smith that he's bringing in crap.

Not being tied to one another, I think they both know that it's in their best interests to make sure if players have X's and O's questions to go to Kubiak and money questions to go to Smith.

TexansFanatic
09-15-2010, 11:45 PM
I'm by no means a soaper so don't take this that way but, if someone gets walking papers, who's handing them out? Just addressing the "hierarchy" view.

Not sure. Whose walking papers are we talking about? Smith's? Kubiak's?

I would imagine if either of those two gets shown the door, it will be Uncle Bob doing it.

Big Lou
09-15-2010, 11:49 PM
I don't underestimate Smithiak. I have always had faith in them. I started to waiver a little at one point last year, but I never abandoned them!!!


We are only one game in to the season, but I think they are a great team. However they have no excuses this year other than injuries (Football God's forbid!!!!!).


They have brought us incremental improvement year after year. Sometimes the record didn't reflect the improvement, but it was evident.

TexansFanatic
09-15-2010, 11:51 PM
Honestly, I imagine they would take any issue they couldn't hammer out between themselves to Bob. But honestly, they overlap some but I don't think Smith is going to tell Kubiak he's misusing fresh blood or that Kubiak would tell Smith that he's bringing in crap.

Not being tied to one another, I think they both know that it's in their best interests to make sure if players have X's and O's questions to go to Kubiak and money questions to go to Smith.

I was thinking more in terms of the draft and who gets final say on the selection of a player. I can't imagine they're going to ask Bob to break a tie on who the best linebacker available is.

Again, they clearly work extremely well together. But if there is a disagreement on which offensive lineman they should take with the third round pick, I'm betting Kubiak wins.

houstonspartan
09-15-2010, 11:52 PM
Not sure. Whose walking papers are we talking about? Smith's? Kubiak's?

I would imagine if either of those two gets shown the door, it will be Uncle Bob doing it.

And Uncle Bob will fire Kubiak well before he fires Smith. Kubiak is on a short leash. Smith is not.

It is fairly obvious that this team can collect talent. The question still up in the air is what can we do with the talent once we've gotten it? That's all on Kubiak.

TexansFanatic
09-16-2010, 12:01 AM
It is fairly obvious that this team can collect talent. The question still up in the air is what can we do with the talent once we've gotten it? That's all on Kubiak.

Yes, under Kubiak the team has assembled a really nice roster. The 2006 draft, which Smith had no hand in, is still considered the hallmark draft of the organization.

Smith has done a fine job, but if the team completely tanks, they may both be shown the door.

And, just for fun: in their last 16 games, they have a 10 - 6 record. Kubiak can coach.

DexmanC
09-16-2010, 12:01 AM
And Uncle Bob will fire Kubiak well before he fires Smith. Kubiak is on a short leash. Smith is not.

It is fairly obvious that this team can collect talent. The question still up in the air is what can we do with the talent once we've gotten it? That's all on Kubiak.

In addition, the implication that Smith will lose his eye for talent without Kubiak
is absurd. Kubiak has plenty of talent to work with now, and has had it for the last three
seasons. Can he coach it up? Nice job last week. Do it fifteen more times,
please.

houstonspartan
09-16-2010, 12:06 AM
In addition, the implication that Smith will lose his eye for talent without Kubiak
is absurd. Kubiak has plenty of talent to work with now, and has had it for the last three
seasons. Can he coach it up? Nice job last week. Do it fifteen more times,
please.

Exactly. I'm fairly certain I read something where Kubiak talked about how Smith was really pushing for Brian Cushing. And, didn't Smith find Jacoby Jones? And wasn't it Smith that saw Bernard Pollard was floating out there?

Come on. Smith is no dummy.

nytexan
09-16-2010, 12:11 AM
I was thinking more in terms of the draft and who gets final say on the selection of a player. I can't imagine they're going to ask Bob to break a tie on who the best linebacker available is.

Again, they clearly work extremely well together. But if there is a disagreement on which offensive lineman they should take with the third round pick, I'm betting Kubiak wins.

I agree with you but I see them more of a team than someone who'll override the other. I think the reason Kubiak recommended Smith was because he not only thought highly of Smith but they had the same vision on what type of player would work in their system. I believe they game plan the draft together but Smith is in charge of free agents. He'll get an opinion from the coaching staff but it's his vision on what skill a player has and if he fits.

I don't see either of them getting fired soon, so that's not even in the equation right now but in that eventuality it wouldn't surprise me if it goes like the Titans Fisher-Reese breakup especially if the team is successful.

TexansFanatic
09-16-2010, 12:16 AM
I don't see either of them getting fired soon, so that's not even in the equation right now but in that eventuality it wouldn't surprise me if it goes like the Titans Fisher-Reese breakup especially if the team is successful.

I don't see either of them getting fired either and I agree that it's not even part of the equation at the moment.

But I hope you're wrong about the Titans comparison. If I remember correctly, there was a real power struggle between Fisher and Reese and Adams had to choose which of the two he wanted to keep. I can't imagine Smith and Kubiak ever engaging in that kind of power struggle for the reasons we've both discussed already.

houstonspartan
09-16-2010, 12:26 AM
I don't see either of them getting fired either and I agree that it's not even part of the equation at the moment.

But I hope you're wrong about the Titans comparison. If I remember correctly, there was a real power struggle between Fisher and Reese and Adams had to choose which of the two he wanted to keep. I can't imagine Smith and Kubiak ever engaging in that kind of power struggle for the reasons we've both discussed already.

What's the background on the Fisher-Reese breakup? Sounds interesting. What went down?

b0ng
09-16-2010, 12:27 AM
I was thinking more in terms of the draft and who gets final say on the selection of a player. I can't imagine they're going to ask Bob to break a tie on who the best linebacker available is.

Again, they clearly work extremely well together. But if there is a disagreement on which offensive lineman they should take with the third round pick, I'm betting Kubiak wins.

Tough to say but I kind of see Smith as being more in charge of the draft and free agency than Kubiak. Smith seems to be a lot more public of a figure during the offseason than the HC, and to an extent I still see Kubiak being more than willing to defer to Smith during that time period if they have a disagreement.

I mean Kubiak did work with Casserly during the '06 draft and I'm sure that Charlie did have plenty of input on some selections (If I recall they both went to Bob about Mario being the #1 overall after Kubiak said that is who he wanted, of course, that story has changed a lot over the years).

It just seems to me that Kubiak is more compliant with a GM and doesn't really try to get big britches (at least not yet) in terms of talent scouting. Smith scouts the talent and Kubiak develops the talent.

Heck, they might even defer to the coordinators and position coaches about draft picks and free agents as well. It seems Bush got to have a little bit of say-so in the last few 1st rounders so who knows.

And yes, I do think that Kubiak is great at developing the talent. You can't tell me Jacoby Jones didn't require a boatload of extra work to turn him into a serviceable #2 WR and electric PR/KR man. He was good at returning kicks when he got here sure, but his development as a wideout could probably be attributed to Kubiak and the WR's coach we have (Who's name slips my mind).

I mean for the sake of this thread, like Lucky said, we really can't differentiate between the two because there doesn't seem to be any noticeable rift between the two.

nytexan
09-16-2010, 12:27 AM
I don't see either of them getting fired either and I agree that it's not even part of the equation at the moment.

But I hope you're wrong about the Titans comparison. If I remember correctly, there was a real power struggle between Fisher and Reese and Adams had to choose which of the two he wanted to keep. I can't imagine Smith and Kubiak ever engaging in that kind of power struggle for the reasons we've both discussed already.

Agreed although I meant Coach stays GM goes not the reason why per se.
Sorry soapers!!!

houstonspartan
09-16-2010, 12:28 AM
I agree with you but I see them more of a team than someone who'll override the other. I think the reason Kubiak recommended Smith was because he not only thought highly of Smith but they had the same vision on what type of player would work in their system. I believe they game plan the draft together but Smith is in charge of free agents. He'll get an opinion from the coaching staff but it's his vision on what skill a player has and if he fits.



Great point, and I hadn't thought of it that way. You're probably right. Allow me to be the first to rep you.

TexansFanatic
09-16-2010, 12:29 AM
Agreed although I meant Coach stays GM goes not the reason why per se.
Sorry soapers!!!

Ah, I see what you're saying. Yes, I agree.

houstonspartan
09-16-2010, 12:30 AM
Agreed although I meant Coach stays GM goes not the reason why per se.
Sorry soapers!!!

Dude, and I just repped you for something you just said. And then you go and say this? LOL!

Smith ain't going nowhere.

Kubiak? Jury is still out.

houstonspartan
09-16-2010, 12:35 AM
I guess at the end of the day, we're all arguing a moot point. Smith and Kubiak work very, very well together, and McNair trusts them both, and all three have a vision for the team. Such a combo is rare in the NFL.

TexansFanatic
09-16-2010, 12:37 AM
What's the background on the Fisher-Reese breakup? Sounds interesting. What went down?

It's not abundantly clear because everybody's story is different. The suspicion is that Fisher wanted more say in player acquisition.

At one point after Reese was let go, his wife called a radio station and aired her perspective on how Reese got screwed by Adams.

Imagine that: somebody feeling like Bud Adams is an a-hole. Shocking!

painekiller
09-16-2010, 12:41 AM
On another note, although it was so good to finally beat the Colts, can anyone remember a QB having such a great game while getting the pressure and getting beat up as much as Manning did Sunday?? 430 yards passing and you just know he woke up Monday morning looking for the Advil bottle after the hits he took the day before. Love em or hate em, that was an impressive performance and even if his defense looked like they threw in the towel in the 4th quarter, he never really gave up and was rallying the troops on the sideline late in that game. I may have been as impressed with this guy in a loss than I have ever been of him in a win. I don't get mushy over the opposition often but that's one of the reason's I'm so impessed with the Texans' win Sunday.

I saw Montana do it to the Oilers and the Giants. That man would take a beating and he would keep hitting that slant or the go, he was knocked about his weak arm but he always got enough on it to get it where it needed
to go.

Is Manning the best ever, no. But he is in a small class. In no particle order: Elway, Staubach, Bradshaw, Stabler, Unitas, Otto Graham, Jim Kelly, Bobby Layne, Dan Marino, and Y.A. Tittle belong in the tough guy would stand in there types

b0ng
09-16-2010, 01:08 AM
As far as Manning goes, he's the best I've ever seen live (Better than Moon, although Moon threw a prettier ball) but then again, how many times have the Patriots come to Houston in a situation where they were competing 100% The last one I can find is this horrible drubbing (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200612170nwe.htm) of which Brady had to barely eclipse 100 yards to win the game thanks to 4 (!) patented David Carr interceptions.

I mean shit, Brady won 3 Superbowls with Troy Brown, Jabbar Gaffney, and Corey Dillon as his weapons.

Hookem Horns
09-16-2010, 01:54 AM
IMO, Manning is the best ever, his brother Peyton isn't too bad either. ;) Can't wait for Sunday night, hopefully the Giants can drop the Colts to 0-2 (doubtful but I am a Giants and Texans fan and that would be big for both teams).

Joking aside, I do think Peyton is the greatest ever. Yes, Montana was one of the greatest ever however I think if you put Peyton on those 49er teams he would have easily won just as many championships as Joe. Those Niner teams looked great with Steve Young and even Steve Bono running them. Take Peyton off of the Colts and plug in an average QB like Steve Bono and they are not even a .500 club.

Not to nitpick however you can't count Pollard, Arian Foster and A. Smith in the 2009 draft class since they were free agents not draftees. Just say the 2009 offseason was one of the better ones and I agree. The 2006 draft class was the best ever for the Texans. I don't know what free agents they signed that year to compare the entire offseason.

TexansFanatic
09-16-2010, 01:59 AM
Yes, Montana was one of the greatest ever however I think if you put Peyton on those 49er teams he would have easily won just as many championships as Joe.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Look at how Montana performed in the biggest games and how Peyton has performed in the biggest games. It's night and day.

Montana always had his best games when he was on the biggest stage. Peyton typically has his worst games when he is on the biggest stage.

Hookem Horns
09-16-2010, 02:04 AM
Maybe. Maybe not.

Look at how Montana performed in the biggest games and how Peyton has performed in the biggest games. It's night and day.

Montana always had his best games when he was on the biggest stage. Peyton typically has his worst games when he is on the biggest stage.

Good points, I won't argue that.

Mari-OWNED!
09-16-2010, 02:08 AM
I mean shit, Brady won 3 Superbowls with Troy Brown, Jabbar Gaffney, and Corey Dillon as his weapons.

Gaffney never won a Super Bowl w/Tom Brady. That was the year they got upset by the Giants.

House of Pain
09-16-2010, 02:33 AM
Excuse my 'newbie-ness', but what is a 'soaper' and how did it come about?

The Pencil Neck
09-16-2010, 02:43 AM
Excuse my 'newbie-ness', but what is a 'soaper' and how did it come about?

This is long and deep Board history.

Anyone who wants someone on the Texans' staff fired is a "Pink Soaper".

Back in the days of Capers and Casserly, the people that wanted them fired and a new regime brought in adopted avatars based on Fight Club... with the Fight Club pink soap picture with Fire Capers or Fire Casserly on them instead of Fight Club.

When Dick Smith was running our defense, there was a Fire Smith contingent.

Over the past few years, there is a contingent of posters who have wanted Kubiak fired and they've adopted variations of those old pink soap avatars as a way to show that they want Kubiak gone.

HTH. (PS, I wasn't around here during the Capers era. I only found this MB during the 2006 draft. So some of this takes place before I was around and I may have some things fuzzy and worng.)

Scooter
09-16-2010, 02:44 AM
Excuse my 'newbie-ness', but what is a 'soaper' and how did it come about?

the "Fight Club" bar of soap got photoshopped into "Fire XXXX" a few years back (capers being the first i think) to be used in avatars ... currently being used for "Fire Kubiak". soapers are as of right now part of the fire kubiak club.

edit: what pencil neck said.

TexansFanatic
09-16-2010, 02:45 AM
Excuse my 'newbie-ness', but what is a 'soaper' and how did it come about?

Great avatar. Bubba McDowell was a badass.

infantrycak
09-16-2010, 03:02 AM
Dude, and I just repped you for something you just said. And then you go and say this? LOL!

Smith ain't going nowhere.

Kubiak? Jury is still out.

You are operating off an assumption which all indications say isn't true - that Kubiak and Smith have a conventional relationship with Smith making the final calls. I'd bet in most areas Kubiak gets what he wants. McNair knows who is exercising final say in which areas and he will act accordingly if needed based on which areas he thinks let the team down.

nytexan
09-16-2010, 06:25 AM
Not to nitpick however you can't count Pollard, Arian Foster and A. Smith in the 2009 draft class since they were free agents not draftees. Just say the 2009 offseason was one of the better ones and I agree. The 2006 draft class was the best ever for the Texans. I don't know what free agents they signed that year to compare the entire offseason.

Not to nitpick with you back but this is what I said in the first paragraph,

I couldn't help but think of the talent the Texans have added under Kubiak and who Smith picked up alone in the 2009 draft and free agency. :barman:

BigBull17
09-16-2010, 08:52 AM
I was just reading a recent article by Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News and he stated the 2009 draft was the weakest draft year EVER. I couldn't help but think of the talent the Texans have added under Kubiak and who Smith picked up alone in the 2009 draft and free agency.

Cushing, Barwin (injury besides the point), starting Right Guard Caldwell, starting CB Quin, special teams gem Thor, 3rd CB McCain, an upcoming safety in Nolan, undrafted FA pickup halfback A. Foster, starting DE-DT A. Smith and picked up from the scrap heap Pollard. Holy smoly from the weakest draft ever these guys may have a draft class that may match our 2006 class. Pretty impressive I think especially if you include the free agent pickups. Does anybody wonder why we look so much better this year so far??

On another note, although it was so good to finally beat the Colts, can anyone remember a QB having such a great game while getting the pressure and getting beat up as much as Manning did Sunday?? 430 yards passing and you just know he woke up Monday morning looking for the Advil bottle after the hits he took the day before. Love em or hate em, that was an impressive performance and even if his defense looked like they threw in the towel in the 4th quarter, he never really gave up and was rallying the troops on the sideline late in that game. I may have been as impressed with this guy in a loss than I have ever been of him in a win. I don't get mushy over the opposition often but that's one of the reason's I'm so impressed with the Texans' win Sunday.

I have never been as sold on Peyton being the best ever till last Sunday. It was unbelievable to see his throws under the extreme pressure he was getting. I don't like the Jug Head cause of the pain he has caused me, but damn do I respect him after that game.

El Tejano
09-16-2010, 09:01 AM
The '09 drat looks GREAT for the Texans and way back in '93 or so Joe Montana beat the Oilers with a performance of the ages. He was sacked like 13 times and had a lump the size of a grapefruit hanging off of his throwing elbow.

You beat me to it.

Regarding the 09 draft, it's a contributing draft so that means it was awesome. The fact we got contributors is a compliment to Smithiak. I'll wait til the season is over before I start giving them huge accolades.

I will say though, that by the looks of it, the 2006 draft is paying off in veteran leadership now. Of course we can talk about the Pro Bowls to Mario, Demeco, and Owen but if you go back and listen to the interviews and look at the tapes you will see and hear Demeco getting in peoples face to pump them up, Winston talking about how we have to take it one game at a time, and guys like Zac Diles leading by example.

Texecutioner
09-16-2010, 12:56 PM
Lol! at the fact that people are trying to call Peyton the best ever. He isn't even the best of this era.


He isn't even better than Brady for one, who won SB's with Troy Brown as his best guy and Brady's got a much much better post season record. Plus, he's won 3 SB's and had 4 SB appearances to Manning's one SB and in the loss of Manning's SB Manning threw it all away with a pick while Brady lost his by his defense giving it away when he had given his team the lead.

Then you have guys like Joe Montana who Manning isn't even touching. I'd put John Elway over Manning easily. Hell, Elway went to 3 SB's with total garbage at WR and never had a great RB either. Elway was the Broncos and I'd take him over Manning any day of the week.

I wouldn't put Manning over Marino either.

Hookem Horns
09-16-2010, 01:10 PM
Back in the days of Capers and Casserly, the people that wanted them fired and a new regime brought in adopted avatars based on Fight Club... with the Fight Club pink soap picture with Fire Capers or Fire Casserly on them instead of Fight Club.



Man, it's so nice to be discussing meaning football with the expectation of winning instead of debating firing coaches and/or GMs. Hopefully it stays this way throughout the season.

Mr. White
09-16-2010, 01:11 PM
The best decision they made was to let "unfrozen caveman assistant coach" Alex Gibbs walk.

I always thought he let the old crusty assistant coaches have too much control. (Including Mike Sherman.)

They got rid of the guys that were holding the team back.

Mike Sherman is gone.
Richard Smith is gone.
Alex Gibbs is gone.

I'm good now.

Ole Miss Texan
09-16-2010, 01:13 PM
Regarding Smithiak: I can't speak for anyone else, but consider me someone who is very impressed and pleased with the job these guys have done in assembling a really nice roster-----what may wind up being the core of a dynasty.
This team and its roster have improved each year they've been here, the coaching staff too. Our team now is stocked with great players on just about every level and ALL of them are just reaching their prime years. This is a young team and why I think could be the start of a dynasty as well.

Regarding Peyton Manning? In my opinion he's easily the best QB of this era and one of (if not the) best of all time. Montana, Elway, Manning.... they're all great.

Sure Brady has more Rings than Peyton but IMO that doesn't make him better. It just means he has been more successful. Some will say the two run hand in hand but I would disagree. I love watching Peyton play. He is just so so smart. If I were building team and you asked me who my QB would be it would be Peyton, not Brady. Even knowing who's done what... I would choose Manning.

Texan_Bill
09-16-2010, 01:18 PM
Excuse my 'newbie-ness', but what is a 'soaper' and how did it come about?

Believe me when I tell you...... back away from the soap!

TexansFanatic
09-16-2010, 01:34 PM
The best decision they made was to let "unfrozen caveman assistant coach" Alex Gibbs walk.

I always thought he let the old crusty assistant coaches have too much control. (Including Mike Sherman.)

They got rid of the guys that were holding the team back.

Mike Sherman is gone.
Richard Smith is gone.
Alex Gibbs is gone.

I'm good now.

Good post.

If there's one problem I have with Kubiak it's that he's too damned loyal to guys who hold him back. Why did he stick with Richard Smith for so long? He was TERRIBLE!

And why did the media try to make us believe Alex Gibbs was some kind of hero who was going to make the offense purr like a freaking Maserati? Good riddance!

The team seems like it's in really good hands now with Dennison and Bush. The staff that will give Houston a championship is here: Kubiak, Smith, Bush, Dennison, & Marciano.

El Tejano
09-16-2010, 02:02 PM
Lol! at the fact that people are trying to call Peyton the best ever. He isn't even the best of this era.


He isn't even better than Brady for one, who won SB's with Troy Brown as his best guy and Brady's got a much much better post season record. Plus, he's won 3 SB's and had 4 SB appearances to Manning's one SB and in the loss of Manning's SB Manning threw it all away with a pick while Brady lost his by his defense giving it away when he had given his team the lead.
I'm with you here!
Then you have guys like Joe Montana who Manning isn't even touching. I'd put John Elway over Manning easily. Hell, Elway went to 3 SB's with total garbage at WR and never had a great RB either. Elway was the Broncos and I'd take him over Manning any day of the week.
Definetly with you here. Elway also went to Super Bowl while having another Super Bowl team in his division with San Diego. He never had a running game.He also took out a pretty good QB from Green Bay in head to head Super Bowl action.
I wouldn't put Manning over Marino either
Here is where you lost me. If you are using Super Bowl's as the criteria between Manning and Brady then, that has to be used here. Also Manning broke a ton of Marino's records.

Still got a ton of respect for Manning.

Double Barrel
09-16-2010, 02:18 PM
And Uncle Bob will fire Kubiak well before he fires Smith. Kubiak is on a short leash. Smith is not.


What do you base this opinion on? Everything the owner has stated directly contradicts your assumption. I think Kubiak has a rather long leash, as evident by his contract extension after 9-7. McNair is not a knee-jerk owner. He's a very patient man, and he really likes Kubiak.

Yes, Montana was one of the greatest ever however I think if you put Peyton on those 49er teams he would have easily won just as many championships as Joe. .

Montana did not throw a pick on a drive that could have won a Super Bowl. He is undeafeated in Super Bowls. Cool Joe might not have the gawdy numbers that Manning has, but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he is truly one of, if not THE, greatest QBs in NFL history.

Lol! at the fact that people are trying to call Peyton the best ever. He isn't even the best of this era.


He isn't even better than Brady for one, who won SB's with Troy Brown as his best guy and Brady's got a much much better post season record. Plus, he's won 3 SB's and had 4 SB appearances to Manning's one SB and in the loss of Manning's SB Manning threw it all away with a pick while Brady lost his by his defense giving it away when he had given his team the lead.

Then you have guys like Joe Montana who Manning isn't even touching. I'd put John Elway over Manning easily. Hell, Elway went to 3 SB's with total garbage at WR and never had a great RB either. Elway was the Broncos and I'd take him over Manning any day of the week.

I wouldn't put Manning over Marino either.

I tend to agree. I give Manning full respect and consider him easy in the top 10, but we listed a comparison of accomplishments and records in a thread awhile back, and Brady had Manning beat in many key categories (not just rings).

nytexan
09-16-2010, 02:22 PM
Lol! at the fact that people are trying to call Peyton the best ever. He isn't even the best of this era.


He isn't even better than Brady for one, who won SB's with Troy Brown as his best guy and Brady's got a much much better post season record. Plus, he's won 3 SB's and had 4 SB appearances to Manning's one SB and in the loss of Manning's SB Manning threw it all away with a pick while Brady lost his by his defense giving it away when he had given his team the lead.

Then you have guys like Joe Montana who Manning isn't even touching. I'd put John Elway over Manning easily. Hell, Elway went to 3 SB's with total garbage at WR and never had a great RB either. Elway was the Broncos and I'd take him over Manning any day of the week.

I wouldn't put Manning over Marino either.

Where I disagree with you is and without knocking Brady but Brady never had to put up big points every single game for his team to win. Manning makes his defense better because if he doesn't put up big numbers his defense loses its effectiveness because Freeney and Mathis who aren't run stoppers are most effective when they have the lead and they're rushing the passer.

Brady's defense helps him, Brady's run game helps him out. You knock him because he's had better receivers than Brady but you totally discount that Brady every single year has a better defense and OLine than Manning does every year. When have you also seen Brady put up the numbers Manning just did when he didn't have all day and all night to get the ball off.

Its hard to argue with SB wins but it takes a great team to win it all not just a great QB.