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View Full Version : Texans Plan To Show "Sign of Solidarity" Sunday


CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 10:37 AM
After last Thursday's "event," I have some very mixed feelings on the subject. I don't know that this show of unity during a game is much more appropriate than political statements coming during Academy Awards acceptances. There are probably better venues for such "statements."

Texans, Colts plan sign of solidarity
Players rush to show unity in labor dispute with owners
By JOHN McCLAIN
Copyright 2010 Houston Chronicle
Sept. 11, 2010, 12:19AM

If they can put it together in time for Sunday's season opener against Indianapolis, players from the Texans and Colts will have a show of solidarity similar to the one at New Orleans on Thursday night.

Right after the national anthem at the Superdome, players from the Saints and Vikings walked onto the field and held up their index fingers as a sign of solidarity in their battle with the owners over a new collective bargaining agreement.

The owners are threatening to lock out the players ó beginning in March - and possibly canceling the 2011 season.

"We're working on it," said Texans middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans, the team's player representative. "I think it's (showing solidarity) important. I think it's something we should do if we can put it together."

The show of solidarity in New Orleans wasn't orchestrated by the NFL Players Association.

"This didn't come down from the (NFLPA office), which I think makes it even more special because it's just the players," said offensive tackle Eric Winston, who assists Ryans. "I think it would be a pretty cool thing to do if we can get all the guys together in time."

After practice Friday, players around the league were scrambling to try to set up the show of solidarity in time for Sunday's game. Ryans was trying to get in touch with center Jeff Saturday and middle linebacker Gary Brackett, the Colts' representatives.

"If we can't get it together, then we'll save it for another time," Winston said. "I think it's something we should do more of."

Kubiak unconcerned

Texans coach Gary Kubiak was focused on the Colts and not worried about the players showing solidarity.

"I saw what took place," Kubiak said about the Saints-Vikings game, "but I don't have a feeling one way or another."

Most coaches want their players to be united no matter what they do. Texans defensive end Mario Williams agreed.

"If we're not on the same page, No. 1, it's not going to work," Williams said. "We've got to be on the same page and be of one accord, and we'll be all right."

Safe until March

The fans have no sympathy for either side. They just want football. They've got it this season, but nothing is guaranteed for 2011.

Callers to local radio talk shows suggested that if the players walk on the field and extend their index fingers, the fans should extend middle fingers to show the players and owners what they think of the possible lockout.

There is plenty of time to work out a new collective bargaining agreement. The lockout won't go into effect until March 4, and no football games will be canceled before the 2011 preseason.

"We have to get this ironed out," strong safety Bernard Pollard said. "Football's such a great game, but it won't be the same if they don't get it ironed out.

"From a business standpoint, the owners love to make money. So do we. Who doesn't love to make money, so why stop it?

"If we can come together and get that (show of solidarity) done, why not? That would be a statement, but at the end of the day, it gets done behind closed doors."

jaayteetx
09-11-2010, 10:39 AM
I don't think the average fan is gonna care for it myself, and they'll be ready to show their disapproval this time, unlike the thursday night game.

Kaiser Toro
09-11-2010, 10:44 AM
This stuff is silly, and only makes me pissed off at the players. They need to have their head in the game.

Thorn
09-11-2010, 10:47 AM
Iím going to be one extremely pissed off fan if thereís a lock out next season. And Iíll be blaming both sides because, as always, it takes two to tango.

Big Lou
09-11-2010, 10:54 AM
I really don't want to see thier Labor Dispute on the field. I'm lucky to have a job, and I've lost a lot in compensation over the last two years. I work in an industry that has a Union, and they made no concessions during the recession, and they have that right, but don't go asking for my help when I'm taken it in the tail pipe.

Honestly the Owners and the Players all make a whole lot of money, but keep it behind closed doors, while we the fans the ones that pay for everything watch. I don't want to see your squabble for your share of the money while I'm seeking entertainment. There are too many struggling Average Joes out in the real world that are just happy to have a roof over thier head, and feed thier kids to feel sorry for any of them.

Actually heres an idea. Players be happy with what your making, and you Owners should lower ticket and merchandise prices and we should all be happy. This whole deal feels like Jackals squabling over a big kill. Poor schlubs like us pay for all of it, just remember who the customer in all this is.

I don't run around doing thing like this when I feel I deserve more compensation from my employer. Keep it behind closed doors boys.

Sorry about the rant!!!!!! :rant:

WWJD
09-11-2010, 11:09 AM
Ok whatever players.

Most people live paycheck to paycheck and you guys play a game and get paid very well. The owners are billionaires and ride in private jets and have million dollar yachts docked in Miami.

I don't really care about their "solidarity" to be honest. I was a paying customer the last time they had an NFL lockout. I think it's all a bunch of nonsense.

They'll always be NFL fans and they'll probably always be full stadiums and they all know that. So they'll have their little lockout and the players will still be millionaires when it's over and the owners will still be billionaires.

datchapin
09-11-2010, 11:09 AM
I don't have a problem with it. I think that what they are doing isn't getting in the way of the game. I mean how many seconds are they cutting out of our entertainment? It's also about freedom of expression. Without getting into the negotiations or their implications I think they are doing a cool thing.

SheTexan
09-11-2010, 11:11 AM
I don't like it!! Keep it off the field and in a boardroom!! It's crap like this that makes me detest what this game has become. I intend to get on facebook and send a message to every Texan player I have on my list and tell them how I feel. I don't think they care, but, dammet, they need to know!!!

Wouldn't it be cool if the FANS decided to LOCKOUT the entire NFL?! Get it done before March or we won't buy tickets!!! Never gonna happen, but, this crap is insane!! JMO!!

datchapin
09-11-2010, 11:28 AM
I don't like it!! Keep it off the field and in a boardroom!! It's crap like this that makes me detest what this game has become. I intend to get on facebook and send a message to every Texan player I have on my list and tell them how I feel. I don't think they care, but, dammet, they need to know!!!

Wouldn't it be cool if the FANS decided to LOCKOUT the entire NFL?! Get it done before March or we won't buy tickets!!! Never gonna happen, but, this crap is insane!! JMO!!

What praytell has this game become? and how has crap like this made it that way?

They just want to express something and you're gonna blast them for it. It's your right, but that don't make it right. I mean if you're at work and you express yourself would you like everyone telling you their opinions about your actions.

texanmojo
09-11-2010, 11:29 AM
Years ago when Texas Motor Speedway opened the drivers bitched and moaned about the track. The next season there were T-Shirts being sold that said "Shut Up and Drive". The drivers were pissed.

Frankly...I feel the same way. They just need to shut up and play. The owners will ALWAYS have more money than the players. I doubt you would find very many people that wouldn't be thrilled to have a league minimum salary. Without the owners...there wouldnt be a team. Obviously without the players, there would not be a team either.

I think both sides are wrong but frankly the players are acting like babies. If I acted out like that against my boss, I would be on my ass looking for a new job. The players need to be reminded that they are employees...very well paid employees. If they don't like their employer (owner)...then go get a job elsewhere. Otherwise shut up and do the job that you were hired to do...and do it to your full capacity.

Hagar
09-11-2010, 11:44 AM
I agree, just shut up and play. Look I'm going to be a Boo Bird on Sunday.

houstonspartan
09-11-2010, 11:51 AM
I've been a season ticket holder for five years. This year it was a little tight, and wasn't sure if I was able to renew my tickets, but I pulled it off. It wasn't easy.

I have no issue with these guys getting paid fair market, but they have to understand that Joe Fan really don't want to hear about their plight. They should keep the labor negotiations behind closed doors.

Having said that, I think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Ok, so a bunch of players held up a finger to signify unity. So what? Let's move on.

Also: There WILL be football next year. People, we're talking about an institution worth tens of BILLIONS of dollars. There's a lot to lose by everybody. This will be resolved.

gtexan02
09-11-2010, 12:03 PM
The NFL is nothing without the players. I like that they are unified. They should be. The owners certainly are.

A 2 second hand gesture doesn't impact the game at all. From a fans point of view, it doesn't change your game experience one bit. Why so angry about it?

It seems like some fans have a little too much sense of entitlement,

I want my Texans team to be pumped up and excited this Sunday. No way would I risk putting them off their game by booing something as trivial as this

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 12:05 PM
I came across this historical SI article published in 2000. It is lengthy, but worth reading when you have some time. Things since have only gotten very much worse for the fan. Where is the cry on the part of the players, and for that matter on the part of the owners to call for logarithmic decrease of tickets each year attached to the logarithmic increases of their incomes. Let the owners make up for their "loss" by increasing the prices of their merchandise and food, while the players make up their "loss" by increasing their demands for memorabilia and endorsements. Neither will do this. Because they would be afraid that they would more likely see a lot of tee shirts at game day with players' names and numbers printed with magic markers, and fans having less need for pee and potty breaks, while watching fans becoming skinnier game by game.

May 15, 2000
Hey, Fans: Sit On It!:The high cost of attending games is fattening owners' wallets while it drives average fans from arenas, and it may be cooling America's passion for pro sports

Average cost for a family of four to attend an NFL game? $258.50.

Since 1991 ticket prices for the four major pro sports have increased an outrageous 80%ófour times faster than the Consumer Price Index. An average NFL ticket, which went for $25.21 in '91, now goes for $45.63.

b0ng
09-11-2010, 12:06 PM
Sad that the owners are willing to lockout a season because they can't get on the same sheet of music. Not upset at all about this because I have been following it for a little while and I don't mind at all that the players want to give each other a sign that they are together about this.

More than the owners have ever done.

SheTexan
09-11-2010, 12:07 PM
What praytell has this game become? and how has crap like this made it that way?

They just want to express something and you're gonna blast them for it. It's your right, but that don't make it right. I mean if you're at work and you express yourself would you like everyone telling you their opinions about your actions.


This game has become ALL ABOUT MONEY, very little true loyalty, selfish, self centered individuals who think making millions is not enough! I've been a fan of this GAME for close to 60 years! I watched football when players had a regular job as well as "playing football." They did it for the LOVE OF THE GAME! That does not exist anymore. They are hired to do a job, get paid very well, and have an opportunity to make MORE if they do that job well. Fans pay what we do because we love the game of football, enjoy it as an entertainment factor in our lives, BUT, life will go on without it!! We don't need football players to survive!!

If I pulled this type of "crap" at my job, I would be jobless very quick! NO, I do not work for a union. "if you're at work and you express yourself would you like everyone telling you their opinions about your actions." To answer that question truthfully! I am a professional! When I'm at work, I conduct myself as one.

b0ng
09-11-2010, 12:09 PM
If I pulled this type of "crap" at my job, I would be jobless very quick! NO, I do not work for a union. "if you're at work and you express yourself would you like everyone telling you their opinions about your actions." To answer that question truthfully! I am a professional! When I'm at work, I conduct myself as one.

If you were making your boss a billion dollars a year, yeah, you probably could.

gtexan02
09-11-2010, 12:10 PM
Thing is, the "Average Fan" can complain about players complaining about money and about owners raising ticket prices, but when it comes right down to it, "Average Fan" is still buying tickets, is still buying memorabilia, and is still watching games.

Its simple economics. Supply and demand.

Ticket prices will continue to increase, beer prices will continue to increase, and players will demand more money as long as there is a reasonable market and profits continue to increase.

Fans have to speak with their wallets. Its hypocritical to complain that players are all about the money and then buy jerseys, tickets, beer, and watch games. They only make as much as we're willing to give them. Thing is, we love the game. We love the entertainment.

Is it what it used to be? I have no idea, I wasn't around for the "good ole days." Do I love it now? Absolutely

Does it bother me that it costs at least $50 a ticket to go to a game up here? Yeah. Will I pay it? Yeah.

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 12:23 PM
Thing is, the "Average Fan" can complain about players complaining about money and about owners raising ticket prices, but when it comes right down to it, "Average Fan" is still buying tickets, is still buying memorabilia, and is still watching games.

Its simple economics. Supply and demand.

Ticket prices will continue to increase, beer prices will continue to increase, and players will demand more money as long as there is a reasonable market and profits continue to increase.

Fans have to speak with their wallets. Its hypocritical to complain that players are all about the money and then buy jerseys, tickets, beer, and watch games. They only make as much as we're willing to give them. Thing is, we love the game. We love the entertainment.

Is it what it used to be? I have no idea, I wasn't around for the "good ole days." Do I love it now? Absolutely

Does it bother me that it costs at least $50 a ticket to go to a game up here? Yeah. Will I pay it? Yeah.

I respect your opinion. But at 26, without 2 or 3 or 4 kids, you cannot really appreciate the extent of the hardship to those who also love the game, but have little choice but to turn away from the game day experience that you so understandably enjoy.

b0ng
09-11-2010, 12:28 PM
I respect your opinion. But at 26, without 2 or 3 or 4 kids, you cannot really appreciate the extent of the hardship to those who also love the game, but have little choice but to turn away from the game day experience that you so understandably enjoy.

I don't get it. How does having a few kids help you appreciate turning away from watching a sport? I mean ever since I've had kids I've always known that I really wouldn't be able to really attend games, but that's not going to make me turn away from football. Probably just the NFL if they can't figure out how to play nicely with one another, but there's always NCAAFB, UFL, CFL and AFL. I've pretty much relegated myself to 2011 not being an NFL season, but I don't see how having kids has helped me come to the conclusion that I won't watch them if they screw it up in 2012 as well.

JB
09-11-2010, 12:39 PM
I don't get it. How does having a few kids help you appreciate turning away from watching a sport? I mean ever since I've had kids I've always known that I really wouldn't be able to really attend games, but that's not going to make me turn away from football. Probably just the NFL if they can't figure out how to play nicely with one another, but there's always NCAAFB, UFL, CFL and AFL. I've pretty much relegated myself to 2011 not being an NFL season, but I don't see how having kids has helped me come to the conclusion that I won't watch them if they screw it up in 2012 as well.

CnD didn't say anything about turning away from football. He was saying that the cost of attending games precluded many with kids from joining in. I believe you said the same.

SheTexan
09-11-2010, 12:45 PM
If you were making your boss a billion dollars a year, yeah, you probably could.


My boss does make a billion dollars a year. I am expendable, just like any football player. I don't do my JOB, I am gone, quickly replaced by someone with much less experience, but, my BOSS does not care. He/she will still be making the billions.

My point, if there is one. Football players ego's are much to inflated. Fans will still follow the GAME: CFL, Arena football, replacement teams, college, high school, etc!!! Regardless of what happens in March, we will still be football fans. Do any of us want to see a LOCKOUT happen? Hell no! It would mess with our addiction, the NFL!!

houstonspartan
09-11-2010, 12:48 PM
My boss does make a billion dollars a year. I am expendable, just like any football player. I don't do my JOB, I am gone, quickly replaced by someone with much less experience, but, my BOSS does not care. He/she will still be making the billions.

My point, if there is one. Football players ego's are much to inflated. Fans will still follow the GAME: CFL, Arena football, replacement teams, college, high school, etc!!! Regardless of what happens in March, we will still be football fans. Do any of us want to see a LOCKOUT happen? Hell no! It would mess with our addiction, the NFL!!

The problem is, we've gotten really attached to the players. There is nothing like watching Number 80 on Sundays. NOTHING. That experience can't be replaced.

b0ng
09-11-2010, 01:00 PM
My boss does make a billion dollars a year. I am expendable, just like any football player. I don't do my JOB, I am gone, quickly replaced by someone with much less experience, but, my BOSS does not care. He/she will still be making the billions.


Are you the one directly responsible for your boss making billions? If you are, you have more leeway to make demands at work. I am also laughing a lot at how people perceive that anybody not "carrying their weight" at work get automatically axed from every job, every time, when that is certainly not the case either.

Again, everybody who thinks that their job earning 1/100th of what an NFL player makes is the same as being the QB for an NFL team are just delusional. I find it hard to believe that any owner who has been in this game as long as Bob McNair has wouldn't be able to sell their franchise for a huge markup from what they bought it for.

gwallaia
09-11-2010, 01:02 PM
I think I will boo.

mattieuk
09-11-2010, 01:04 PM
Iím going to be one extremely pissed off fan if thereís a lock out next season. And Iíll be blaming both sides because, as always, it takes two to tango.

Yup. Its their (the owners and the players) issue. Leave the fans out of it.

Its a negotiation between two groups of millionaires - I for one give little consideration for the plight of either side. Keep it in the boardrooms, and off the field.

thunderkyss
09-11-2010, 01:17 PM
I don't have a problem with it. I think that what they are doing isn't getting in the way of the game. I mean how many seconds are they cutting out of our entertainment? It's also about freedom of expression. Without getting into the negotiations or their implications I think they are doing a cool thing.

I don't like it. By putting it out there on the field, they are trying to get us in the middle of it.


This is between the players and the owners.

I'm with SheTexan, & they're both pissing me off.

texanmojo
09-11-2010, 01:20 PM
Thing is, the "Average Fan" can complain about players complaining about money and about owners raising ticket prices, but when it comes right down to it, "Average Fan" is still buying tickets, is still buying memorabilia, and is still watching games.

Its simple economics. Supply and demand.

And the fans have spoken in many cities...including New York where they almost had a blackout for the first Jets game.

Fans have to speak with their wallets.

Agreed...which is why there will possibly be more blackouts in local cities than there have been in a very long time.

http://www.wtsp.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=144706

3 teams that were in the playoffs last year are facing possible backouts this season.

Its hypocritical to complain that players are all about the money and then buy jerseys, tickets, beer, and watch games. They only make as much as we're willing to give them.

How is it hypocritical? I buy season tickets every year because I enjoy going to the tailgate as much as I enjoy going to the game. The players don't see any revenue from jersey sales. The do benefit from you and me paying for our tickets...paying high prices for crappy food and beer...and then they want to ***** about their salaries? These guys make more in 3 or 4 years than many people make in a LIFETIME.

I have no problem with the players standing united against the owners. If they want to have a show of solidarity, that's fine but do it behind closed doors or by some other means. Standing on the field with your finger in the air is a slap in the face to the fans as it is our money that pays their salaries.

I'm tired of hearing that the players are not getting "enough" from the owners. They need to shut up and play and if they don't like their job or multi-million dollar salary...go do something else that will make themselves happy.

b0ng
09-11-2010, 01:20 PM
See I'm not trying to be a total d-bag, I can understand saying "I don't care about millionaire v. billionaire I just want my football" and it's totally justified. But getting on the players case because 1.) You can't play football at that high of a level, or else that's what you would be doing and 2.) they make more money than you is completely delusional. I understand that it's hard to sympathize with a millionaire who "plays" for money, but that is why they get millions of dollars to get hit in the head every year, and I earn 30k a year getting porn off of office PC's for a living.

In the end, the worst case is pretty much the same for all of us that browse these forums: There will be no more NFL football after 2010, and that's a thing I don't really want to see happen to a sport I love to watch.

thunderkyss
09-11-2010, 01:32 PM
I'm tired of hearing that the players are not getting "enough" from the owners. They need to shut up and play and if they don't like their job or multi-million dollar salary...go do something else that will make themselves happy.
I think it's a little bigger than that. The owners are bitching as well, and they aren't putting their lives on the line 16+ weeks out of the year.

I'm not completely on the players side though. No owners, no NFL. No players, no NFL. No fans, no NFL.

They just need to work it out, and keep us out of it, unless they want us to table our demands.

texanmojo
09-11-2010, 01:36 PM
I think it's a little bigger than that. The owners are bitching as well, and they aren't putting their lives on the line 16+ weeks out of the year.

I'm not completely on the players side though. No owners, no NFL. No players, no NFL. No fans, no NFL.

They just need to work it out, and keep us out of it, unless they want us to table our demands.

I agree with you 100%. At the end of the day...the owners are the employers and the players are the employees. Keep this labor crap out of the game that we all paid for.

TexansBull
09-11-2010, 01:38 PM
Really shouldn't be an issue .

Its probably gonna take less time than a comercial and wont innerfere with game. Most fans will walk away talking about the win and the plays and wont walk away saying "OMG did you see what the players did?" People will talk more about concession food prices than about the solidarity.

Secondly, I am not an expert on this whole lock out thing. Players want to get paid. Nothing wrong with that. The average NFL player has a short career, but still generates a ton of money for the owners who have really long shelf lives.

drs23
09-11-2010, 01:41 PM
[QUOTE=b0ng;1517360]I earn 30k a year getting porn off of office PC's for a living.

So that's you? :foottap:

thunderkyss
09-11-2010, 01:42 PM
Really shouldn't be an issue .

Its probably gonna take less time than a comercial and wont innerfere with game. Most fans will walk away talking about the win and the plays and wont walk away saying "OMG did you see what the players did?" People will talk more about concession food prices than about the solidarity.


I don't know what happened in Nawl'ns. but they're looking for our reaction. If we start cheering, and give them a standing O, the T.V. cameras will be on us, and they'll be talking about it for weeks.

Then Mawae is going to say, "See, the fans are on our side."

If we boo, & give them a finger of our own, the Owners will say, "See, the fans are on our side."

b0ng
09-11-2010, 01:43 PM
I earn 30k a year getting porn off of office PC's for a living.

So that's you? :foottap:

Yep, and I just sent your manager an email about it :tiphat:

thunderkyss
09-11-2010, 01:47 PM
Yep, and I just sent your manager an email about it :tiphat:

That's got to be a Man-Card violation. I'm sure I read it in the by-laws.

TexansBull
09-11-2010, 01:58 PM
I don't know what happened in Nawl'ns. but they're looking for our reaction. If we start cheering, and give them a standing O, the T.V. cameras will be on us, and they'll be talking about it for weeks.

Then Mawae is going to say, "See, the fans are on our side."

If we boo, & give them a finger of our own, the Owners will say, "See, the fans are on our side."


So I dont know if no reaction would be best, or booing or cheering would be best.

I wish I knew to make sure there wont be a lockout in 2011.

And I would guess that other players are doing it at other games too.

b0ng
09-11-2010, 02:04 PM
That's got to be a Man-Card violation. I'm sure I read it in the by-laws.

Hey I'm trying to go ahead around here, know what I mean.

Heath Shuler
09-11-2010, 02:08 PM
No way would I risk putting them off their game by booing something as trivial as this

I think I will boo.

How do you sleep at night? How dare you risk putting these highly paid athletes off of their game? Have you no conscience?:fingergun:

Drew_Smoke
09-11-2010, 02:15 PM
I will boooooo as loud as I will when the Cowboys take the field in 2 weeks. DON"T F WITH THE FANS!

If you wanna do your little finger wag do it in parctice when the boss man is there.

If I see it, you will hear it.

DexmanC
09-11-2010, 02:15 PM
I'm not offended by the players. However, I do believe how this week of
"solidarity" in stadiums league-wide is received will determine whether they keep
making these types of displays in the following weeks.


The NFL has a huge pie of cash to divide up, and the players are just trying
to get their fair slice. No one wants a labor stoppage, and the players
don't want to be locked out. They want to play, we want to watch them,
thus I tend to side more with the players than with the owners.

gary
09-11-2010, 02:18 PM
As long as the owners are making billions the players will continue to ***** they want more money. I have just learned to except it and move on. Regarding the players holding up their fingers before the game they do what they are going to do, so what? How does that effect you and me. I don't think it does.

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 02:21 PM
I don't get it. How does having a few kids help you appreciate turning away from watching a sport? I mean ever since I've had kids I've always known that I really wouldn't be able to really attend games, but that's not going to make me turn away from football. Probably just the NFL if they can't figure out how to play nicely with one another, but there's always NCAAFB, UFL, CFL and AFL. I've pretty much relegated myself to 2011 not being an NFL season, but I don't see how having kids has helped me come to the conclusion that I won't watch them if they screw it up in 2012 as well.


I evidently didn't make myself properly clear.......and it left you to misinterpret the point of my post. When I was referring "game day" experience, what I should have qualified was "in stadium presence." In no way did I mean that this would necessarily turn someone from appreciating the games on TV or radio.........but, for some it could certainly leave bad feelings.

J_R
09-11-2010, 02:31 PM
Posted this in the NFL section but thought I'd post it here too.:kitten:

NFLPA collecting signatures for possible decertification (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81a70089/article/players-union-collecting-signatures-for-possible-decertification)


The NFL Players Asscoiation (NFLPA) began collecting signatures for possible decertification in March, according to league sources.

Decertification is one possible tact the NFLPA could take this spring to negate a potential lockout and begin a process through the court system toward a possible resolution of the labor impasse with owners.

The collective bargaining agreement is set to expire in March, and decertification could allow the NFLPA to sue the league in an attempt to prevent owners from locking players out of offseason activities. If the NFLPA decertifies it would, in effect, cease to become a union. If the league then attempted lockout the players, they could sue the NFL under U.S. antitrust laws. However, the NFL could also challenge that decertification.

Regardless, the NFLPA, rather than wait until March to vote on decertifying, is conducting voting on a team-by-team basis now, beginning with the Saints last week, where the measure passed unanimously, according to sources. The process will continue as union head DeMaurice Smith meets with each team through the season.

"This is a procedural thing only," is how one NFLPA official put it. "It's easier to collect 1,900 signatures now than in March."

If the NFLPA is successful in an effort to decertify, then the collective bargaining process would end, and individual players could seek antitrust lawsuits, an action the union took in past labor negotiations that resulted in the Reggie White lawsuit, and ultimately a system of free agency beginning in 1993. In the meantime, as that case was unfolding from 1989-1993, obviously games were played

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 02:43 PM
There are many ways that the players may end up screwing themselves.

AP source: Union considering decertification vote (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/football/7196369.html)
By BARRY WILNER AP Pro Football Writer © 2010 The Associated Press
Sept. 11, 2010, 2:01PM

A letter sent to NFLPA membership has outlined to the players what voting for decertification would mean. DeMaurice Smith, the union's executive director, frequently has said he expects the owners to lock out the players.

Smith will be meeting with each team over the next few weeks.

The letter also says if the union does not decertify before March and the expiration of the CBA, it can't sue the league for six months.

Decertification also would strip the union of collective bargaining rights on behalf of the players, and could affect marketing of the players through NFL Players, the marketing arm of the union.

The NFL said it has no comment on the union's action.

In 1989, two years after a failed players' strike, the NFLPA decertified. It returned as a union in 1993, when a contract was reached with the league that provided for free agency. That landmark CBA was renewed or restructured several times since 1993, including in 2006. The owners opted out of that deal in 2008.

Old School
09-11-2010, 02:55 PM
As I see it. This is just another 2-3 minutes of tailgating time. This show of solidarity will be wasted because most everyone will still be outside.:cool:

silvrhand
09-11-2010, 02:58 PM
Question is: if there is a lockout and a strike players cross the lines, as PSL owners are we going to have to pay full price to watch strike players to keep our PSL's? Ugh..

Thorn
09-11-2010, 03:16 PM
I probably ought to stay out of this thread because it just pisses me off. It's this kind of thing that drove me away from basketball and baseball. I don't even bother to watch either now. As to football, it's already driven me away from spending one dime on football. I don't buy tickets, shirts or anything else that supports professional football. All I do is watch it and pay for cable TV, and that's all they're going to get out of me.

I doubt very seriously something like this could drive me away from watching it though, because if the Texans are on TV, I'm going to be watching. What needs to happen is the fans would have to stay away from the stadiums on Sundays to make a point, and that probably won't happen.

Wouldn't that be great though? All fans through out the USA boycott one Sunday and that would get the players and owners attention real quick.

Dutchrudder
09-11-2010, 03:25 PM
Well, it's better than opening the game with Taylor Swift...

The1ApplePie
09-11-2010, 03:34 PM
As for billionaires vs. millionaires, how many NFL players are really making top dollar?

Some guys have monster contracts, but many more are making NFL minimum.

Its the old guys and the special teamers that are getting screwed by the current CBA.

Kulluminatii
09-11-2010, 03:36 PM
Well, it's better than opening the game with Taylor Swift...

Soooo you're saying you wouldn't want to stare at this for a good 3-4 minutes?

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Taylor-Swift-b03.jpg

:kitten:

JB
09-11-2010, 03:37 PM
As for billionaires vs. millionaires, how many NFL players are really making top dollar?

Some guys have monster contracts, but many more are making NFL minimum.

Its the old guys and the special teamers that are getting screwed by the current CBA.

I thnk I read that the PS guys got $5200 a week. Hardly getting screwed. What is min. for a vested vet? $325,000 or something like that? Hardly getting screwed.

The1ApplePie
09-11-2010, 03:39 PM
Soooo you're saying you wouldn't want to stare at this for a good 3-4 minutes?

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Taylor-Swift-b03.jpg

:kitten:

A little jail-baity for me, but I think that is pretty much her appeal

Makes about as much since as Dave Matthews Band being there as well.

The1ApplePie
09-11-2010, 03:41 PM
I thnk I read that the PS guys got $5200 a week. Hardly getting screwed. What is min. for a vested vet? $325,000 or something like that? Hardly getting screwed.

If your career is 3 years, you have to make the most of it.

I thought practice squad made something stupid low like $30,000 a year. Never researched it though, just heard that number some where.

People bitched at the writer's strike a few years ago, but it wasn't for the show-runners making a few mil a year, it was for the guys bringing in $13k a year

J_R
09-11-2010, 03:50 PM
$5,200 per week for 17 weeks, or $88,400 per season

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 03:50 PM
Question is: if there is a lockout and a strike players cross the lines, as PSL owners are we going to have to pay full price to watch strike players to keep our PSL's? Ugh..

Ya betcha..........Oh, the owners may out of the kindness of their hearts offer you a 2 dollar off coupon per game towards any beer you may purchase during the game, just to shut you up........Just be thankful that you don't hold a PSL in the new monument to Jerrah's being!:tiphat:

The Third Man
09-11-2010, 03:54 PM
In an incredibly violent sport where the owners don't look after the veteran players who made the NFL what it is today, I don't begrudge anything the players are doing in this situation. The owners want to lock them out. Don't forget that.

JB
09-11-2010, 03:55 PM
If your career is 3 years, you have to make the most of it.

I thought practice squad made something stupid low like $30,000 a year. Never researched it though, just heard that number some where.

People bitched at the writer's strike a few years ago, but it wasn't for the show-runners making a few mil a year, it was for the guys bringing in $13k a year

Median salary on the Texans last year was $802,280. Lowest paid on the team was $315,000 for Verdell and $317, 000 for J. Johnson.
Link (http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?year=2009&team=13)

This year PS salary is $5200 a week.

Link (http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1106954/NFL-Practice-Squad-Salary)

wagonhed
09-11-2010, 04:00 PM
Good for them. The owners of the NFL rule with more or less an iron fist and dictate almost all the terms and conditions to the players. The owners have an effective monopoly and the only way the players can have representation is if they unite.

Solidarity!

wagonhed
09-11-2010, 04:05 PM
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/295242-1

Bad Sports: How Owners Are Ruining The Games We Love
Dave Zirin, sports editor for The Nation, argues against the business actions of professional sports owners. The author examines the different tactics that he believes owners use to manipulate city officials and fans to maintain their sports teams, from the threat of moving teams to other cities if certain demands are not met to the use of public money to finance new stadiums and arenas. Dave Zirin discussed his book at Politics and Prose Bookstore in Washington, D.C.

Go watch the first 20 minutes of the video.

Thorn
09-11-2010, 04:06 PM
In an incredibly violent sport where the owners don't look after the veteran players who made the NFL what it is today, I don't begrudge anything the players are doing in this situation. The owners want to lock them out. Don't forget that.

I agree the job of a professional football player carries a large risk of injury, but so does being a policeman, fireman, or a member of the Armed Services. They all made a choice and I don't feel a bit sorry for the football players. I'd like to see the aforementioned service men and women get better compensation before football players, I can guarentee you that.

wagonhed
09-11-2010, 04:10 PM
I agree the job of a professional football player carries a large risk of injury, but so does being a policeman, fireman, or a member of the Armed Services. They all made a choice and I don't feel a bit sorry for the football players. I'd like to see the aforementioned service men and women get better compensation before football players, I can guarentee you that.

It has nothing to do with feeling sorry for them. You don't have any obligation to feel sorry for any of those people. That doesn't mean they can't organize, though....

By the way, ever heard of the Fraternal Order of Police?

The Third Man
09-11-2010, 04:16 PM
I agree the job of a professional football player carries a large risk of injury, but so does being a policeman, fireman, or a member of the Armed Services. They all made a choice and I don't feel a bit sorry for the football players. I'd like to see the aforementioned service men and women get better compensation before football players, I can guarentee you that.

Absolutely. Still, in a billion dollar industry there is no reason that the health and welfare of NFL veterans cannot be looked after. These are working conditions and compensation that the players should negotiate for. Tell me again why I am supposed to feel bad for Jerry Jones, or Daniel Snyder over contract negotiation they willingly signed and now want to back out of?

Showtime100
09-11-2010, 04:22 PM
If the strike happens I feel bad for ME. Not the damned owners or the damned players. ME.

One day the fan might form a union and plan organized walk outs on their own, but not in my lifetime. Until then the mightiest voice will remain the most silent and poorest voice in the mix, that of the fan.

powerfuldragon
09-11-2010, 04:36 PM
Makes about as much since as Dave Matthews Band being there as well.

from what i saw of the opening day concerts, ol' dave was attempting a bit of subversion.. i thought that was kinda funny.

and as for taylor swift, i'll watch her on mute because she's like a child.. better seen, not heard.

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 04:38 PM
The players are not going to win this one.


Goodell has said that the "TV networks" will not pay for games that are not played. BUT.....................

what he conveniently leaves out is that the owners essentially have "lockout insurance" built into their TV contracts.

Direct TV (which is NOT a network) has a contract with the NFL for 1 billion dollars a year from 2011 to 2014..............to be paid whether ANY games are played or not.

Furthermore, Goodell is disengenuous in that the networks are obligated to pay for all games played every year. The owners are then obligated to re-imburse the networks later or have the amount discounted in future years.

What do you think the owners will be doing with all passive cash?????

WWJD
09-11-2010, 04:42 PM
College football's popularity will go thru the roof. Not that they needed much more to help them along.

TexansBull
09-11-2010, 04:43 PM
I would like them to come together like this for one other thing: The older retired NFL players who helped built this league and aren't getting the medical benefits or compensation they should be due from the NFL pension. We probably all feel the same way because we know of Earl Campbell.

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 05:09 PM
From Ricky Jackson's recent Hall of Fame speech (http://www.neworleansprofootball.com/2010/08/rickey-jacksons-hall-of-fame-induction.html) in his address to the players and NFL:

These Hall of Famers here, I just seeing how these guys carry themselves, the love they had for football. We need to keep football going. Can't let football get away. I mean you can get where the product can be so good, you can lose sight and let it get away.

I think right now the National Football League, need to get together and make sure that we keep the game what it is today. Don't let it get away because we got a great product. When you got a great product, you need to keep it going. Hard to keep stuff going in America. When you got something good, try to do the right thick with it so you keep it going.

Dutchrudder
09-11-2010, 05:09 PM
I agree the job of a professional football player carries a large risk of injury, but so does being a policeman, fireman, or a member of the Armed Services. They all made a choice and I don't feel a bit sorry for the football players. I'd like to see the aforementioned service men and women get better compensation before football players, I can guarentee you that.

I heard this argument on the radio the other day, but I don't think it is relevant. The reason why football players get paid so much is because it is extremely rare to guys who can perform at the level of Manning, Brady, etc. They aren't getting paid for risk of injury, they are paid for their talent. The policemen, firemen and military personnel are mostly a dime a dozen, but the more specialized members do get paid a lot more.

Marcus
09-11-2010, 05:17 PM
In an incredibly violent sport where the owners don't look after the veteran players who made the NFL what it is today, I don't begrudge anything the players are doing in this situation. The owners want to lock them out. Don't forget that.

You might also want to don't forget that the main thing that players are demanding is total unrestricted free agency, like they have in baseball. They also want to do away with the salary cap, like in baseball.

They can demand all the money they want, but if they screw up the abilty of each team to compete for talent, I am DONE watching NFL football. Period. End of story, like 2nd Honeymoon likes to say.

DexmanC
09-11-2010, 05:46 PM
I heard this argument on the radio the other day, but I don't think it is relevant. The reason why football players get paid so much is because it is extremely rare to guys who can perform at the level of Manning, Brady, etc. They aren't getting paid for risk of injury, they are paid for their talent. The policemen, firemen and military personnel are mostly a dime a dozen, but the more specialized members do get paid a lot more.

You wouldn't buy a ticket to see a fireman, policeman or military personnel
perform. The people who make big bucks, generate the pool of money from
which they are paid.

Thorn
09-11-2010, 05:50 PM
Absolutely. Still, in a billion dollar industry there is no reason that the health and welfare of NFL veterans cannot be looked after. These are working conditions and compensation that the players should negotiate for. Tell me again why I am supposed to feel bad for Jerry Jones, or Daniel Snyder over contract negotiation they willingly signed and now want to back out of?

Don't get me wrong, in this case of a potential lock out, I'm against BOTH the players and the owners.

But as is the case with everything, the market will bear the price people are willing to pay. And as long as folks keep paying money to buy expensive seats and TV network are willing to pay what they do, it will do what it always does, increase in price until the market won't bear that price. It's apparent that folks and TV network are willing to pay whatever the NFL asks, so my opinion means nothing to anyone except to me. LOL

The Third Man
09-11-2010, 06:04 PM
Don't get me wrong, in this case of a potential lock out, I'm against BOTH the players and the owners.

But as is the case with everything, the market will bear the price people are willing to pay. And as long as folks keep paying money to buy expensive seats and TV network are willing to pay what they do, it will do what it always does, increase in price until the market won't bear that price. It's apparent that folks and TV network are willing to pay whatever the NFL asks, so my opinion means nothing to anyone except to me. LOL

A work stoppage can change all of that, though. Both sides really need to think this through. The NFL makes a lot of money for a lot of people, has competitive balance and fan interest at the moment. Nothing is guaranteed. Sports as hallowed as MLB and seemingly up and coming like NASCAR have taken a fall in recent times. Being a hardliner for a profitable sport in a time of economic instability is so shortsighted it takes my breath away. As a person who spends several hundred dollars a year to get the NFL here in New Zealand, it wouldn't take much foolishness on their part to have me spend my money and attention elsewhere.

Lucky
09-11-2010, 06:17 PM
The NFL is nothing without the players. I like that they are unified. They should be. The owners certainly are.
That's not entirely true. While the owners unanimously voted to opt out of the CBA, there were varying reasons. The game within the game in this round of labor negotiations is the big vs small market teams.What revenue will and will not be shared with the players, and amongst the teams themselves. And while some owners are well positioned for a year without revenue, other owners have large debt will need the cash of ticket and luxury box sales, concessions, advertising, etc. That's an element that makes this CBA negotiation different than any before it.

This stuff is silly, and only makes me pissed off at the players. They need to have their head in the game.
Exactly. This is the wrong time and the wrong place. The offseason is their time. Now, they're on our time. They can take care of their personal business "off the clock".

TheMatrix31
09-11-2010, 06:26 PM
Lame. It gives the impression that they just dont give a damn about the game itself.

thunderkyss
09-11-2010, 06:33 PM
There are many ways that the players may end up screwing themselves.

AP source: Union considering decertification vote (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/football/7196369.html)
By BARRY WILNER AP Pro Football Writer © 2010 The Associated Press
Sept. 11, 2010, 2:01PM

This doesn't make any sense, they lose all bargaining power all together, everything will be done on an individual basis.


How is that going to be good for the game?

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 06:33 PM
The more I research and read about this and the more I hear about this, the more, as a fan, I feel......................A POX ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES!!:cool:

JB
09-11-2010, 06:39 PM
The more I research and read about this and the more I hear about this, the more, as a fan, I feel......................A POX ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES!!:cool:

Damn straight!

datchapin
09-11-2010, 06:45 PM
This game has become ALL ABOUT MONEY, very little true loyalty, selfish, self centered individuals who think making millions is not enough! I've been a fan of this GAME for close to 60 years! I watched football when players had a regular job as well as "playing football." They did it for the LOVE OF THE GAME! That does not exist anymore. They are hired to do a job, get paid very well, and have an opportunity to make MORE if they do that job well. Fans pay what we do because we love the game of football, enjoy it as an entertainment factor in our lives, BUT, life will go on without it!! We don't need football players to survive!!

If I pulled this type of "crap" at my job, I would be jobless very quick! NO, I do not work for a union. "if you're at work and you express yourself would you like everyone telling you their opinions about your actions." To answer that question truthfully! I am a professional! When I'm at work, I conduct myself as one.

Wow. It's become about money because people like you and I throw money at it. I haven't been a fan of this game as long as you have, haven't even lived as long as you've been a fan. However you talk about this love of the game, that's BS it's about love of the NFL. If the elite players of the NFL left and went to UFL or another brand you know what, alot of fans would follow the PLAYERS, BECAUSE ELITE PERFORMANCES ARE WHAT ENTERTAIN, and these players are paid as such because they provide elite performances.

I don't know what kind of job you have, but if you are an elite performer, I doubt you would be jobless. Further if your boss came to you and demanded more of you for the same wage would you just take that? Wouldn't it be better to make the lateral move, or maybe express yourselve and remind your boss of your value to the company.

I don't know what you mean when you say professional, but if you mean submitting yourself to whatever is asked of you, I don't see that as something to be proud of. That's the impression I get from your posts. That these guys should just bend over and take it while the owners pull in billions so that we the customers can be happy.

I support the players because I can relate to their frustration.

Buffi2
09-11-2010, 07:00 PM
I support nfl football and whatever it takes to put it on the field. I don't care who makes the most money - owners or players - I don't even particularly care how much they make.

This is entertainment and, as such, doesn't really fall under the same umbrella as policemen, teachers, etc. People pay for the entertainment they prefer - football, movies, books, basketball, etc. It is the fun in their lives - not their work and their free choice to pay or not to pay. Often, free choice isn't a consideration in one's job - but it is in your entertainment.

I think the owners and the players should keep all of the bargaining off the field/off the media and get it settled one way or the other. There is nothing the fans can do about it - so why bother us with it? This isn't a political rally where we get to vote on an issue - this is football.

Play the dratted game and keep your company business in the mediation room.

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 07:11 PM
Wow. It's become about money because people like you and I throw money at it. I haven't been a fan of this game as long as you have, haven't even lived as long as you've been a fan. However you talk about this love of the game, that's BS it's about love of the NFL. If the elite players of the NFL left and went to UFL or another brand you know what, alot of fans would follow the PLAYERS, BECAUSE ELITE PERFORMANCES ARE WHAT ENTERTAIN, and these players are paid as such because they provide elite performances.

I don't know what kind of job you have, but if you are an elite performer, I doubt you would be jobless. Further if your boss came to you and demanded more of you for the same wage would you just take that? Wouldn't it be better to make the lateral move, or maybe express yourselve and remind your boss of your value to the company.

I don't know what you mean when you say professional, but if you mean submitting yourself to whatever is asked of you, I don't see that as something to be proud of. That's the impression I get from your posts. That these guys should just bend over and take it while the owners pull in billions so that we the customers can be happy.

I support the players because I can relate to their frustration.

Your premise does not hold when you look at how many pack college stadiums each week and even HS stadiums. In fact, there are many who would rather go to those games than to NFL games, and would tell you that those games are much more exciting to them. In Canada, the excitement of Canadian fans being at their games rivals any seen in the states watching NFL football.......despite the supposed lesser talent. As much disappointment would be felt, if the NFL folded today, lesser venues would become available immediately both locally and nationally..........and more afordable for the honor of being able to view them upclose and personal. Life would go on with new "favorite" teams and new "favorite" players. Yes, life would go on.

Marcus
09-11-2010, 07:12 PM
Lame. It gives the impression that they just dont give a damn about the game itself.

What ever gave you the impression that they did? It's business first. Going thru the motions of actually playing the game for "us" is a distant second.

JB
09-11-2010, 07:16 PM
I support the players because I can relate to their frustration.

I'm really glad that you can relate. Personally I cannot relate to anyone making over a 1/4 million dollars a year. And I don't care if they want to show solidarity among themselves. But, do not try to make me a part of it. This is what pisses me off...

KICKOFF MESSAGE FROM ALL NFL PLAYERS TO OUR FANS

We are men, and we are family men who love our country, our game and our fans.

As we face an uncertain future and the threat of being locked out of the game we love and rely on to provide for our families, we make to you this solemn promise:

To the Players who have come before us, fought and paid the price for pensions, health care and free agencyóto men like John Mackey, Alan Page, Dan Marino, Freeman McNeil, Boomer Esiason, Reggie White and Kevin Mawae;
To the stadium workers, officers, businesses and everyone who gets their hands dirty working for this game;
To each and every player who risks everything for the thrill of this game;
To everyone who loves this game and lives as we do for kickoff;
And to the few who stand against us;
The Players and fans will STAND AS ONE.


Link (http://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/Player-News/Kickoff-Message-From-All-NFL-Players-to-Our-Fans/)


The NFLPA is trying to give the appearance that the fans are on their side. Total BS. I'm not on either side, because neither side is in the right. They both have to compromise.



That these guys should just bend over and take it while the owners pull in billions so that we the customers can be happy.


The idea that the owners are making the players bend over and take it is ludicrous. The CBA the owners just opted out of (a right the players insisted on) had the players receiving 60% of revenue. The owners are on record as saying that they want to reduce rookie salaries and change the players revenue to 50%. I am sure that most employees in the country would fall all over themselves for 50% of their companies revenue.

The players do not get my sympathy, nor do the owners. All I ask is that they do their negotiating behind closed doors, and get the damn deal done!

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 07:38 PM
If the NFLPA sues the NFL, where do you think the monies for all the legal fees on both sides are going to ultimately come from. Just like after the 1987 strike, you better hold onto your wallets.

SheTexan
09-11-2010, 07:45 PM
Wow. It's become about money because people like you and I throw money at it. I haven't been a fan of this game as long as you have, haven't even lived as long as you've been a fan. However you talk about this love of the game, that's BS it's about love of the NFL. If the elite players of the NFL left and went to UFL or another brand you know what, alot of fans would follow the PLAYERS, BECAUSE ELITE PERFORMANCES ARE WHAT ENTERTAIN, and these players are paid as such because they provide elite performances.

I don't know what kind of job you have, but if you are an elite performer, I doubt you would be jobless. Further if your boss came to you and demanded more of you for the same wage would you just take that? Wouldn't it be better to make the lateral move, or maybe express yourselve and remind your boss of your value to the company.

I don't know what you mean when you say professional, but if you mean submitting yourself to whatever is asked of you, I don't see that as something to be proud of. That's the impression I get from your posts. That these guys should just bend over and take it while the owners pull in billions so that we the customers can be happy.

I support the players because I can relate to their frustration.

What the hell do you think a lot of us did after the Oilers left? This is not the first time there has been a strike either. My love of the GAME started with high school football, which I still follow. Not into College football that much, but, during lapses in the NFL, I learned to appreciate football at the college level all that much more. Don't tell me it's all about the NFL and that I don't LOVE the game!! I enjoy watching my grandson's play football as much as I do any NFL player, and it does NOT cost me a friggin fortune. There are ELITE performers in a lot of different areas of entertainment. Maybe if I didn't spend over 400 bucks every Sunday just for tickets, plus another hundred or more for tailgating, I would be able to travel more, or go to NY to the theatre, or save and go to the Olympics! YES, we all enjoy the entertainment that comes from the NFL, but, we can survive without it!!

I am a Registered Nurse, and have been for 43 years. My boss DEMANDS more of me every damn day for the same salary, and I have to do it, or be replaced!! RNs are considered professionals, and I have respect for my profession. So YES, I have to submit myself to whatever is ask of me, or someone in my care just might die.

This arguement can go on forever and we will not come any closer to agreeing than the players or owners. truth is, the fans are the only victims. The owners make mega bucks, the players make mega bucks, the fans SPEND mega bucks just so we can be entertained by selfish people.

There is one issue that I totally agree with, and that is the older generation players should be compensated for their contribution to the sport. The owners should take care of those who made this game what it is today.

JB
09-11-2010, 07:49 PM
Damn good post Gma!

texanmojo
09-11-2010, 07:55 PM
What the hell do you think a lot of us did after the Oilers left? This is not the first time there has been a strike either. My love of the GAME started with high school football, which I still follow. Not into College football that much, but, during lapses in the NFL, I learned to appreciate football at the college level all that much more. Don't tell me it's all about the NFL and that I don't LOVE the game!! I enjoy watching my grandson's play football as much as I do any NFL player, and it does NOT cost me a friggin fortune. There are ELITE performers in a lot of different areas of entertainment. Maybe if I didn't spend over 400 bucks every Sunday just for tickets, plus another hundred or more for tailgating, I would be able to travel more, or go to NY to the theatre, or save and go to the Olympics! YES, we all enjoy the entertainment that comes from the NFL, but, we can survive without it!!

I am a Registered Nurse, and have been for 43 years. My boss DEMANDS more of me every damn day for the same salary, and I have to do it, or be replaced!! RNs are considered professionals, and I have respect for my profession. So YES, I have to submit myself to whatever is ask of me, or someone in my care just might die.

This arguement can go on forever and we will not come any closer to agreeing than the players or owners. truth is, the fans are the only victims. The owners make mega bucks, the players make mega bucks, the fans SPEND mega bucks just so we can be entertained by selfish people.

There is one issue that I totally agree with, and that is the older generation players should be compensated for their contribution to the sport. The owners should take care of those who made this game what it is today.


Uhhhhhh....what she said!!! :)

Rey
09-11-2010, 07:56 PM
I could care less about this, but I don't think the players are wrong.

You want what you think you're worth...Some players will benefit from this...Some will not...

texanmojo
09-11-2010, 07:58 PM
I could care less about this, but I don't think the players are wrong.

You want what you think you're worth...Some players will benefit from this...Some will not...

Everyone in every job wants what they are worth. Some get it...others don't. If you are unhappy with how you are being paid...what do you do? Go get a new job...

Rey
09-11-2010, 08:00 PM
Everyone in every job wants what they are worth. Some get it...others don't. If you are unhappy with how you are being paid...what do you do? Go get a new job...

Yeah...Some of these players will have to get new jobs if the hold out goes on for long enough...

All those Practice Squad and fringe roster guys better be doing some penny pinching...

I keep hearing about the millionaire players, but there are many NFL players that make around the same amount of money as someone who is just very successful in their career...

GNTLEWOLF
09-11-2010, 08:03 PM
Soooo you're saying you wouldn't want to stare at this for a good 3-4 minutes?

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Taylor-Swift-b03.jpg

:kitten:


Looking at her is great...its having to listen to her that feels like daggers in my ears....

Rey
09-11-2010, 08:03 PM
I'm trying to figure out who has the upper hand in negotiations and I still haven't quite figured that out...

The owners are owners for a reason...Most of them are top shelf business men...They make a living out of getting negotiations to go in their favor...

Meanwhile, the players are the ones who actually provide the entertainment....

But you'll have some players that are more motivated to get the deal hammered out than others...

Gonna be interesting to see what happens.

GNTLEWOLF
09-11-2010, 08:05 PM
I thnk I read that the PS guys got $5200 a week. Hardly getting screwed. What is min. for a vested vet? $325,000 or something like that? Hardly getting screwed.
I wish I was getting screwed that way.

thunderkyss
09-11-2010, 08:07 PM
I don't know what you mean when you say professional, but if you mean submitting yourself to whatever is asked of you, I don't see that as something to be proud of. That's the impression I get from your posts. That these guys should just bend over and take it while the owners pull in billions so that we the customers can be happy.

I support the players because I can relate to their frustration.

Let's say you were in sales, you're the top salesperson for your company. You bring in over $30 million in sales for your employer. Lets say you're with a customer, talking about renewing his contract.

Would you pause before your presentation to make sure your customer knew you & your employer were in the middle of a labor dispute that should be settled in 6 months?

Would you consider that professional?

Heck, would you ask for his support, because that's what the players are doing with this "show of solidarity" before the game.

Cjeremy635
09-11-2010, 08:07 PM
I actually sat here and read through all five pages of this thread before I decided to post. I agree with those of you who said to keep this mess off of the field. It belongs behind closed doors, period.

If I had to pick a side though, I would side with the owners. Yes, the players are the ones that the fans show up to see, but the owners are the ones who shelled out all of that money to purchase the team. As a co-owner of a small business, I wouldn't sympathize with my employees if they all decided to show a sign of solidarity and demand more money. I feel like I bear the financial burden of running the company and the stress that goes along with it, so shouldn't you make the most from the profits? I'm not saying that you should pay your employees like **** (which I don't BTW), but those NFL players aren't paid like **** either. There are plenty of things that go on behind closed doors that have to deal with running a business that the players do not have to worry about. Those headaches can drive you crazy sometimes and that's why the CEOs make what they do. Also, the players wanting 50-60% of the money is rediculous. How does that impact owner's profits after they have to deal with profit sharing for teams that can't sustain themselves?

I have a lot more to say, but I'll leave it at that for now. :cool:

texanmojo
09-11-2010, 08:08 PM
I keep hearing about the millionaire players, but there are many NFL players that make around the same amount of money as someone who is just very successful in their career...

I'd say that 325K...or whatever the league minimum is a very good salary. Don't waste it on Lambo's or mansions and one can probably do just fine.

JB
09-11-2010, 08:09 PM
I wish I was getting screwed that way.

It must suck to be screwed with almost $100k for 4 months of work...:rolleyes:

Rey
09-11-2010, 08:09 PM
I thnk I read that the PS guys got $5200 a week. Hardly getting screwed. What is min. for a vested vet? $325,000 or something like that? Hardly getting screwed.

From what my understanding of the situation is, the players are not going on strike...They are being told that they will not be able to play by the owners, hence the situation being called a 'hold out' or 'lock out'...

Basically, If my understanding is correct, the players are not asking for a higher percentage of the pie...Instead, the owners are saying that they want to give them less than what they are currently giving...

I have heard that the Owners are complaining that they are losing money...The NFLPA has asked to see the books as proof that they are indeed losing money...The owners have refused to do so...

ND Kalu was on the radio talking about this the other day and he basically laid it out as such.

So basically the situation boils down to the Owners wanting to pay players less and the players not wanting to take a smaller percentage of the pie....

That is why I can't really blame the players...I know they will still be rich no matter what, but I can feel their frustration if they think that the owners are just being frugal and wanting to make their billions grow...

Either way, I hope they get it worked out...

It must suck to be screwed with almost $100k for 4 months of work...:rolleyes:

C'mon JB....they may only play games for around four months, but staying in shape and being ready to play come August/September is a years worth of work...

If Peyton Manning only worked at his craft for 4 months we'd have beat him more than once by now...

JB
09-11-2010, 08:16 PM
From what my understanding of the situation is, the players are not going on strike...They are being told that they will not be able to play by the owners, hence the situation being called a 'hold out'.....

Basically, If my understanding is correct, the players are not asking for a higher percentage of the pie...Instead, the owners are saying that they want to give them less...

I have heard that the Owners are complaining that they are losing money...The NFLPA has asked to see the books as proof that they are indeed losing money...The owners have refused to do so...

ND Kalu was on the radio talking about this the other day and he basically laid it out as such.

So basically the situation boils down to the Owners wanting to pay players less and the players not wanting to take a smaller percentage of the pie....

That is why I can't really blame the players...I know they will still be rich no matter what, but I can feel their frustration if they think that the owners are just being frugal and wanting to make their billions grow...

Either way, I hope they get it worked out...

If you were the owner of a company, would you be happy with giving your employees 60% of revenue? Not 60% of profit, but 60 % of revenue?

Again, I really don't care about the issues at hand, 'cause I have no control over that. I just want them to keep their negotiating off the football field. Just play ball on Sunday and hold your ceremonial bs for behind closed doors.

Rey
09-11-2010, 08:22 PM
It seems as if a lot of people think that the players are complaining and asking for more money...Here's an article that explains what I was saying a little more:

According to Goodell, under the current labor agreement with the players the NFL has the right to impose an 18-game schedule, and keep four preseason games for each team. But that contract expires after this season, and a new proposal would have to be presented to the players' union.

The owners did not vote on the issue and have yet to iron out several issues involved with expanding the regular season, including coming up with new ways to evaluate the rookie players who wouldn't have as many preseason games to make a good impression.

And, as former player and coach Mike Ditka points out in a Sporting News interview, "When you've got more chances for guys to get hurt, you've got to have a bigger roster."

Many NFL players are expressing concerns about an expansion, including Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis, who told the New York Times that adding games means more risk of injury.

"We’re not automobiles; we’re not machines; we’re humans,” said Lewis. “After the first three, four months, your body feels a certain way. You’ve got to ask yourself how many people are truly healthy in 18 games. I just think it’s a lot of football."

Money is another issue. As Cleveland Browns linebacker Scott Fujita points out, the owners want the players to take less money in the next labor agreement.

"They are asking you to play more games and put yourself at more risk, and they are also asking us to take a pay cut," Fujita told the AP. "That's a lot to ask. All those things don't make a whole lot of sense."

Link (http://blog.syracuse.com/sports/2010/08/nfl_owners_push_for_18-game_se.html)


Forgot about the fact that they are trying to push the season to 18 games which IMO makes it even worse...

They want them to take less money and play more games...I don't blame the players for showing some resistance...

Ultimately, the owners will probably get the longer end of the stick, but I can't blame the players for not immediately signing the new labor agreement under those terms...

thunderkyss
09-11-2010, 08:24 PM
It must suck to be screwed with almost $100k for 4 months of work...:rolleyes:

I'm not picking sides here, but 4 months? These guys have to work 24/7 to be able to play this game at the level they are playing. Then we have OTAs in April mini camp in June, training camp in July...

JB
09-11-2010, 08:28 PM
I'm not picking sides here, but 4 months? These guys have to work 24/7 to be able to play this game at the level they are playing. Then we have OTAs in April mini camp in June, training camp in July...

The 4 months and almost $100K is for the practice squad guys during the season. That does not count the money they get paid during OTA's and TC. And that is only the practice squad guys. All players on the active roster get a lot more than that.

The Third Man
09-11-2010, 08:29 PM
I actually sat here and read through all five pages of this thread before I decided to post. I agree with those of you who said to keep this mess off of the field. It belongs behind closed doors, period.

If I had to pick a side though, I would side with the owners. Yes, the players are the ones that the fans show up to see, but the owners are the ones who shelled out all of that money to purchase the team. As a co-owner of a small business, I wouldn't sympathize with my employees if they all decided to show a sign of solidarity and demand more money. I feel like I bear the financial burden of running the company and the stress that goes along with it, so shouldn't you make the most from the profits? I'm not saying that you should pay your employees like **** (which I don't BTW), but those NFL players aren't paid like **** either. There are plenty of things that go on behind closed doors that have to deal with running a business that the players do not have to worry about. Those headaches can drive you crazy sometimes and that's why the CEOs make what they do. Also, the players wanting 50-60% of the money is rediculous. How does that impact owner's profits after they have to deal with profit sharing for teams that can't sustain themselves?

I have a lot more to say, but I'll leave it at that for now. :cool:

These owners get the tax payers to pay for their chief moneymaking assets- the stadiums- and still convince people that their investment in the NFL, a closed economic system that discourages the free market, makes them some kind of martyrs to the players who are calling for half the revenue. Incredible.

gtexan02
09-11-2010, 08:29 PM
I enjoy watching my grandson's play football as much as I do any NFL player, and it does NOT cost me a friggin fortune. There are ELITE performers in a lot of different areas of entertainment. Maybe if I didn't spend over 400 bucks every Sunday just for tickets, plus another hundred or more for tailgating, I would be able to travel more, or go to NY to the theatre, or save and go to the Olympics! YES, we all enjoy the entertainment that comes from the NFL, but, we can survive without it!!

...

This arguement can go on forever and we will not come any closer to agreeing than the players or owners. truth is, the fans are the only victims. The owners make mega bucks, the players make mega bucks, the fans SPEND mega bucks just so we can be entertained by selfish people.



I wanted to respond to this portion of your post SheTexan. It sounds like you're saying that you're reliant on the NFL and if they charge $400, you have to pay it. That you can't do things like travel because the NFL is exorting money out of you. I don't understand this, though. Football is entertainment. Its your choice alone whether to spend that $400.

Football is not a life necessity. This isn't some company charging out the rear for basic food and water and shelter. Its 100% entertainment.

There are a lot of things in life that everyone cannot afford. I will never own a Ferrari, I will never own a jet, etc. Im lucky if I make it to one pro game per year because of cost.
Because diamonds are so expensive, Im still paying for an engagement ring I purchased and thats preventing me from traveling. But that was my choice. I dont really have a right to be upset at the price, because I was the one who decided to pay it.

Like you said, you already have alternatives. You can watch highschool games for free or very cheap. You can watch college (altough they are expensive as well) and you can always watch for free locally on TV.

It makes sense to be frustrated at prices, but the NFL is a business, and as such, the bottom line is whats important. This is capitalism and this is America. If the owners can make more money by charging more, don't they have a right to?


Edit: I want to go ahead and change my opinion on the solidarity act issue. I agree with those of you who say youre fine with the players asking for more, fine with the owners asking for more, but want them to keep it behind closed doors. Thats the only sensible move. Doing it while at work (gametime) is not acceptable. Take AJ as an example. Do your business and negotiate in private. Don't make it a public ordeal.

Rey
09-11-2010, 08:30 PM
If you were the owner of a company, would you be happy with giving your employees 60% of revenue? Not 60% of profit, but 60 % of revenue?

Again, I really don't care about the issues at hand, 'cause I have no control over that. I just want them to keep their negotiating off the football field. Just play ball on Sunday and hold your ceremonial bs for behind closed doors.

If I were the owner of an NFL team I'd just be thankful to be in such a great position...So I'm prolly not the one to ask that question to...

But I don't know a whole lot about owning a company...

What is the typical percentage that owners of companies designate as 'employee revenue'?

And does the fact that they are putting their health at risk have anything to do with the discrepancy (if there is one) between...say Starbucks and the NFL?

gtexan02
09-11-2010, 08:33 PM
If I were the owner of an NFL team I'd just be thankful to be in such a great position...So I'm prolly not the one to ask that question to...

But I don't know a whole lot about owning a company...

What is the typical percentage that owners of companies designate as 'employee revenue'?

And does the fact that they are putting their health at risk have anything to do with the discrepancy (if there is one) between...say Starbucks and the NFL?

The health issue is very overplayed in my opinion.

First of all, what is the incidence of death in the NFL? Im sure its not much higher than any other job. Construction is probably a lot more dangerous.

Secondly, if they get hurt, they get compensated. They have insurance for things like that.

GNTLEWOLF
09-11-2010, 08:34 PM
It must suck to be screwed with almost $100k for 4 months of work...:rolleyes:

That's what i'm talkin about!

Rey
09-11-2010, 08:39 PM
The health issue is very overplayed in my opinion.

First of all, what is the incidence of death in the NFL? Im sure its not much higher than any other job. Construction is probably a lot more dangerous.

Secondly, if they get hurt, they get compensated. They have insurance for things like that.




Just playing football for that many years takes years off your life...

I'm not even talking about people who actually die or get hurtplaying the game...

But besides that I don't understand what comparing their mortality rate to another profession has to do with anything...

I think that timber cutters should be well compensated as well, and if the person who owned the company they worked for tried to decrease their pay and add more shifts, I think they should resist as well...

A better comparison would be to compare the revenue sharing to that of other sports...If baseball gets 40%and basketball gets 50% (completely made up #'s, I have no idea what it is) then it stands to reason that since NFL players health are at greater risk than the other two sports that's where the discrepancy comes in.

JB
09-11-2010, 08:44 PM
If I were the owner of an NFL team I'd just be thankful to be in such a great position...So I'm prolly not the one to ask that question to...

But I don't know a whole lot about owning a company...

What is the typical percentage that owners of companies designate as 'employee revenue'?

And does the fact that they are putting their health at risk have anything to do with the discrepancy (if there is one) between...say Starbucks and the NFL?

I don't know the answer of all those questions. I am a small business owner, and I know that employee salary, incuding mine, comes nowhere close to 50% of revenue. The owners also provide health insurance for all their employees, plus they have to guarantee large porpotions of the salary of most of their employees. So, if the employee winds up to be a total bust (see Ryan Leaf & Jamarcus Russell) they still have to pay out huge amounts of money. If you sucked at your job, would you keep it? Of course not. If you lost your job, would you still receive a large chunk of your salary? Of course not. The players get their money because they are the best in the world at what they do. But, the owners are the ones taking all the financial risk in this deal.

If a typical business has a down period, (like many are having in these tough times), they might have to lay a few people off and cut expenses and try to make it thru. If a NFL team goes through a period of suckitude (see Jacksonville) and cannot sell their seats, the players still get paid the same money they would if every game was sold out. What financial risk do the players take?

gtexan02
09-11-2010, 08:45 PM
Just playing football for that many years takes years off your life...

I'm not even talking about people who actually die or get hurtplaying the game...

But besides that I don't understand what comparing their mortality rate to another profession has to do with anything...

I think that timber cutters should be well compensated as well, and if the person who owned the company they worked for tried to decrease their pay and add more shifts, I think they should resist as well...

I was just trying to say that I don't believe that the discrepency between starbucks and NFL players is due to injury incidence or health risk. If it was, then you're right, timber cutters would be a very high paying career.

I think its 100% specialization. There's only one Andre Johnson. Even the 2nd best receiver in the NFL is not nearly the same. In order to keep the competition at the highest level possible, they have to pay the athletes a premium

Revolution
09-11-2010, 08:46 PM
Nevermind...

JB
09-11-2010, 08:52 PM
The health issue is very overplayed in my opinion.

First of all, what is the incidence of death in the NFL? Im sure its not much higher than any other job. Construction is probably a lot more dangerous.

Secondly, if they get hurt, they get compensated. They have insurance for things like that.

I totally agree here. The players know exactly the health risks, they have been playing the game most of their lives. No one is forcing them to have a dangerous job. No one is disguising the dangers of the job.

Dutchrudder
09-11-2010, 08:56 PM
Soooo you're saying you wouldn't want to stare at this for a good 3-4 minutes?

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Taylor-Swift-b03.jpg

:kitten:

If I wanted to stare at her for 3-4 minutes I'd go to the NSFW forum or just do a GIS, but I don't really care to. She's supposed to be a talented singer, but she sounded more like a lame drunk karaoke girl you would see at Bubba's on Monday night.

thunderkyss
09-11-2010, 08:56 PM
I don't know the answer of all those questions. I am a small business owner, and I know that employee salary, incuding mine, comes nowhere close to 50% of revenue. The owners also provide health insurance for all their employees, plus they have to guarantee large porpotions of the salary of most of their employees. So, if the employee winds up to be a total bust (see Ryan Leaf & Jamarcus Russell) they still have to pay out huge amounts of money. If you sucked at your job, would you keep it? Of course not. If you lost your job, would you still receive a large chunk of your salary? Of course not. The players get their money because they are the best in the world at what they do. But, the owners are the ones taking all the financial risk in this deal.

If a typical business has a down period, (like many are having in these tough times), they might have to lay a few people off and cut expenses and try to make it thru. If a NFL team goes through a period of suckitude (see Jacksonville) and cannot sell their seats, the players still get paid the same money they would if every game was sold out. What financial risk do the players take?

I work for a fortune 500 company, and while the "little people" don't get those perks, you can bet your ass there are many a golden parachutes handed out. While times were tough during the recession, they couldn't afford to pay the hourly workers their $3K-$4K bonuses. But they had no problem finding the money to pay the CEOs & the CFOs their $10MM bonuses, or the middle managers their $50K bonuses.

Just saying.

& yes, we cut a lot of the Janitors, & asked the hourly workers to clean up after themselves, we've got Electricians welding & building scaffolds, and Mechanics pooring concrete.

But that's a different story.

Rey
09-11-2010, 08:58 PM
What financial risk do the players take?

What financial risk does any employee take in any business?

There are plenty business owners who have hired busts...

If you hire an employee but later you find out that employee is sleeping on the job, or doing something else that can be perceived as detrimental to the business then I would consider that employee a bust.

As a business you have to expect that to happen sometimes...But if you are constantly hiring (or drafting) employees that do nothing and hurt your business, then that means something is wrong with your interview (evaluation) skills.

Yes if a company is having a down period they may have to lay people off, but NFL teams have that option too....They can let go of marginal players who are not really worth their salary and hire cheaper ones...Didn't we just save money by cutting Jacques Reeves?

NFL owners do not have to give FA's the outlandish contracts...You have the option to pass on that player...

I understand that you have to strike a balance of being competitive (hiring capable employees) and limiting salaries....I get that...

But IMHO, the best thing that could be done for owners is for the rookie salaries to go down. They should have a defined wage scale as well...

But I can't really think of too many businesses where they employees are taking financial risks like the owner would take...

JB
09-11-2010, 09:01 PM
But I can't really think of too many businesses where they employees are taking financial risks like the owner would take...

Neither can I. Can you think of any others where the employees get more than 50% of revenue?

WWJD
09-11-2010, 09:03 PM
Your premise does not hold when you look at how many pack college stadiums each week and even HS stadiums. In fact, there are many who would rather go to those games than to NFL games, and would tell you that those games are much more exciting to them. In Canada, the excitement of Canadian fans being at their games rivals any seen in the states watching NFL football.......despite the supposed lesser talent. As much disappointment would be felt, if the NFL folded today, lesser venues would become available immediately both locally and nationally..........and more afordable for the honor of being able to view them upclose and personal. Life would go on with new "favorite" teams and new "favorite" players. Yes, life would go on.

Yep...don't know about Canadian football because I don't watch but the University of Tennessee has 102 thousand fans in their stadium tonight. I've grown to be more of a college fan thru the years and less of an NFL fan.

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 09:07 PM
Let me throw this little nugget out.

As close as I can determine, decertification of the union, combined with the expiration of the CBA will have a very ominous ring. It basically means that all players not signed to an existing contract, including all players coming out of college, are UFA's and can negotiate any terms with any team, without limits.

If the owners don't lock out the players, there would be utter chaos with no draft and dozens of players jumping teams.:mcnugget:

gtexan02
09-11-2010, 09:08 PM
Yep...don't know about Canadian football because I don't watch but the University of Tennessee has 102 thousand fans in their stadium tonight. I've grown to be more of a college fan thru the years and less of an NFL fan.

Ive tried college, but just can't get into it. There is so little parity and the championship portion is just so awful that its difficult to really believe in it.

Rey
09-11-2010, 09:10 PM
I totally agree here. The players know exactly the health risks, they have been playing the game most of their lives. No one is forcing them to have a dangerous job. No one is disguising the dangers of the job.

I don't really get that statement...

If the best players that played the game had decided not to play the game because of health risks then the NFL wouldn't be what it is...

http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/13/pf/dangerousjobs/dangerous2.gif

This is from '02, but I'm sure it hasn't changed much. No one hides the risk of any of those jobs, but I am sure that most are fairly compensated for their 'occupational risks' despite the fact they know what they are getting into when they go into it.

And just so I'm not coming off as someone blindly defending players, I have read many articles stating that the health of NFL players is over exaggerated due to the fact that you have so many 300+ pound employees...guys like that are obviously going to skew health rates...

But taking the pounding that NFL players take, I do think that they are at "a" risk...what that risk is in relation to other professions...I don't know...

JB
09-11-2010, 09:10 PM
Let me throw this little nugget out.

As close as I can determine, decertification of the union, combined with the expiration of the CBA will have a very ominous ring. It basically means that all players not signed to an existing contract, including all players coming out of college, are UFA's and can negotiate any terms with any team, without limits.

If the owners don't lock out the players, there would be utter chaos with no draft and dozens of players jumping teams.:mcnugget:

However the draft in 2011 will be happening. It is part of the expiring CBA and the conditions of the opt out agreement.

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2010, 09:12 PM
Yep...don't know about Canadian football because I don't watch but the University of Tennessee has 102 thousand fans in their stadium tonight. I've grown to be more of a college fan thru the years and less of an NFL fan.

Do you remember when the Oilers first moved (and local excitement for the new team was at a peak) and there were potential scheduling conflicts with Univ of Tenn games............and it was made very clear that the Univ of Tenn would come out well ahead on a head to head?

ObsiWan
09-11-2010, 09:13 PM
Let's say you were in sales, you're the top salesperson for your company. You bring in over $30 million in sales for your employer. Lets say you're with a customer, talking about renewing his contract.

Would you pause before your presentation to make sure your customer knew you & your employer were in the middle of a labor dispute that should be settled in 6 months?

Would you consider that professional?

Heck, would you ask for his support, because that's what the players are doing with this "show of solidarity" before the game.

Perhaps.
If your prospective customer was drawn to your brand of product because he trusted you and your past ability to make good on your word. Think about it, there aren't many products that customers can't go elsewhere and buy; hell, there are probably several other vendors selling your same brand of product. Be it cars or houses or stocks or health insurance or whatever in most cases, the customer has choices. If he (the prospective customer) thought that the guy he's trusted in the past to give him good service and advice would be gone in six months due to the owner's stupidity (and he'd have to be stupid to risk losing someone bringing in $30 Mil) then yeah, it would be in your best interest to let him know you'll be there to continue to provide the support he's looking for.

OTOH, if this was a new customer with whom you have no history, then telling him about this dispute might shake his confidence in your ability to meet your promises after six months because you might not be there.

Bad example. Try again.
:D

Rey
09-11-2010, 09:17 PM
Neither can I. Can you think of any others where the employees get more than 50% of revenue?

No I can't...

I don't know what percentage large businesses generally allocate to employee salaries...

Heck...I don't even know what other sports leagues give their employees...

SheTexan
09-11-2010, 09:20 PM
I wanted to respond to this portion of your post SheTexan. It sounds like you're saying that you're reliant on the NFL and if they charge $400, you have to pay it. That you can't do things like travel because the NFL is exorting money out of you. I don't understand this, though. Football is entertainment. Its your choice alone whether to spend that $400.

Please don't try to read something in my post that is not there! OF COURSE the money I spend is my choice!! Never said it wasn't! It would be the same if I CHOSE to travel, or go to other expensive entertainment venues, or just stuck my money in the bank, it is my decision what to do with it. I don't have to pay a damn thing to the NFL if I don't want to!! I like watching LIVE football, that's my entertainment from August to Jan/Feb, so I pay the price, same as I would for any other type of entertainment. Heck, I just plunked down $400 to take my kids and grandkids to see SYTYCD! :dance3::dance3::dancer:

Truthfully, I understand both sides. To bad it's the fans that get caught in the middle. If we all CHOSE to stay at home, we wouldn't be having this argument, now would we.:thinking:

WWJD
09-11-2010, 09:20 PM
Ive tried college, but just can't get into it. There is so little parity and the championship portion is just so awful that its difficult to really believe in it.

Yea I understand that..I watch the bigger games you know on TV...I don't search the web for scores or anything like that. Follow the Texas schools and players. There are HUGE gaps in talent from school to school but to me just from the boob tube the college fans are more into the games and seem to be having more fun than the NFL fan. Of course it's thousands of young drunk kids and all that but at many games it's a mass of school colors (even the UH crowd I saw on ESPN..that stadium was a mass of red) and the fans just look like they're having a lot of fun.

To me the college games I watch are every bit as exciting as the pro games.

And I despise the BCS. Just hate all that.

gtexan02
09-11-2010, 09:21 PM
I don't really get that statement...

If the best players that played the game had decided not to play the game because of health risks then the NFL wouldn't be what it is...

http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/13/pf/dangerousjobs/dangerous2.gif

This is from '02, but I'm sure it hasn't changed much. No one hides the risk of any of those jobs, but I am sure that most are fairly compensated for their 'occupational risks' despite the fact they know what they are getting into when they go into it.

And just so I'm not coming off as someone blindly defending players, I have read many articles stating that the health of NFL players is over exaggerated due to the fact that you have so many 300+ pound employees...guys like that are obviously going to skew health rates...

But taking the pounding that NFL players take, I do think that they are at "a" risk...what that risk is in relation to other professions...I don't know...


From the article you took that image from:

. Many timber fellers earn upwards of $60,000 working a nine- or 10-month year.

They are the most dangerous job by almsot a 2x margin, and they are compensated at less than 6 figures. By a lot.

thunderkyss
09-11-2010, 09:21 PM
Perhaps.
If your prospective customer was drawn to your brand of product because he trusted you and your past ability to make good on your word. Think about it, there aren't many products that customers can't go elsewhere and buy; hell, there are probably several other vendors selling your same brand of product. Be it cars or houses or stocks or health insurance or whatever in most cases, the customer has choices. If he (the prospective customer) thought that the guy he's trusted in the past to give him good service and advice would be gone in six months due to the owner's stupidity (and he'd have to be stupid to risk losing someone bringing in $30 Mil) then yeah, it would be in your best interest to let him know you'll be there to continue to provide the support he's looking for.

OTOH, if this was a new customer with whom you have no history, then telling him about this dispute might shake his confidence in your ability to meet your promises after six months because you might not be there.

Bad example. Try again.
:D

Nope, it's still a good example. It would be unprofessional (the purpose of the post) to bring that up. You have a job to do, do it. You could be just as unprofessional and offer to extend the current contract for 6 months, and not bring the customer into the dispute.

The boss knows you're bringing in $30 million. He knows there will be repercussions. That's part of the business. No need bringing the customer into it. For all we know, the customer may not like dealing with you anyway... you're too tough in negotiations, and he'd be happy to have to deal with someone else.

PapaL
09-11-2010, 09:25 PM
I am perfectly fine with it and approve of it.

WWJD
09-11-2010, 09:25 PM
Do you remember when the Oilers first moved (and local excitement for the new team was at a peak) and there were potential scheduling conflicts with Univ of Tenn games............and it was made very clear that the Univ of Tenn would come out well ahead on a head to head?

Yes I do remember that...I see Tennessee on alot on ESPN or ABC games. They have a huge fan base. Must be the checkerboard endzones.

I'd rather watch the Vols play than the Titans any day of the week. They have a ton of fun in that stadium. They definitely have more fans. :)

ObsiWan
09-11-2010, 09:27 PM
If you were the owner of a company, would you be happy with giving your employees 60% of revenue? Not 60% of profit, but 60 % of revenue?

Again, I really don't care about the issues at hand, 'cause I have no control over that. I just want them to keep their negotiating off the football field. Just play ball on Sunday and hold your ceremonial bs for behind closed doors.

That's the wrong question. The owners signed up to split the pie 60/40 during the past agreement. The pie has only gotten bigger due to the new TV contracts and advertising agreements. The question is why is 40% of an ever larger "pie" suddenly not enough for the owners?

Blake
09-11-2010, 09:27 PM
If the players want to hold up their fingers for a few seconds, whatever floats their boats. But dont expect me to care about your problems or issues with management. I am busy enough paying my bills and trying to obtain a better living.

If there is no NFL next year I will live. I will go on and spend my entertainment money on another product. Either work out yalls **** behind closed doors or get ready to lose some money.

PapaL
09-11-2010, 09:35 PM
Hmmmm...

Sources: Saints OK union breakup if necessary; LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5558815)

The New Orleans Saints voted 59-0 to authorize the National Football League Players Association to decertify as a union if collective bargaining talks should eventually reach an impasse, according to union and player sources.

NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith asked the Saints to vote on the strategic procedure when he met with the team in New Orleans. The Saints voted on the issue Monday.

The union will send a memo to its approximately 1,900 members Monday to inform them of the strategy that is being described as a housekeeping step.

...

Under decertification guidelines established by the National Labor Relations Board, the union would no longer be able to represent the players in collective bargaining.

It is an action the union took that enabled individual players to seek antitrust lawsuits against the NFL and eventually provided the leverage that led to a new era of free agency in 1993.

On the NFL players association website in 2008, NFLPA general counsel Richard Berthelsen warned of the potential union action to prevent the NFL from locking out players in 2011.

"The NFLPA would sooner go out of business as a union," Berthelsen said. "This is not just a threat, it's a reality because we did it once before."


Interesting stuff...

ObsiWan
09-11-2010, 09:44 PM
Nope, it's still a good example. It would be unprofessional (the purpose of the post) to bring that up. You have a job to do, do it. You could be just as unprofessional and offer to extend the current contract for 6 months, and not bring the customer into the dispute.

The boss knows you're bringing in $30 million. He knows there will be repercussions. That's part of the business. No need bringing the customer into it. For all we know, the customer may not like dealing with you anyway... you're too tough in negotiations, and he'd be happy to have to deal with someone else.

Now you're altering the scenario. And even your altered scenario has holes. Like I said, it's extremely rare that my product, whatever it is, cannot be obtained someplace else from someone else. And if the customer is doesn't like my sales approach, he/she has the option to go over my head - to my sales mgr or even the owner if necessary - and request another sales rep; he/she doesn't need to wait until I'm replaced when my personal negotiations fall through.

But as I said, whether you bring it up or not depends on your relationship with each particular customer.

Back to the original topic, to be honest, I'm not sure what the players hope to accomplish with this little display. The folks who are sympathetic to the players will still be sympathetic. Those who aren't, don't care, or hate both sides will just get more P/O'd.

WWJD
09-11-2010, 09:53 PM
Compared to the lockout many years ago this will get very nasty very quickly just by the media saturation...nowadays we all log in to numerous sports sites, numerous sports columnists, etc for hours at a time if we want to. They all have an opinion and they'll all be spouting it 24 hours a day 7 days a week from now till time for the lockout. It wasn't like that last "strike"...

JB
09-11-2010, 09:57 PM
Compared to the lockout many years ago this will get very nasty very quickly just by the media saturation...nowadays we all log in to numerous sports sites, numerous sports columnists, etc for hours at a time if we want to. They all have an opinion and they'll all be spouting it 24 hours a day 7 days a week from now till time for the lockout. It wasn't like that last "strike"...

Very good point. The longer this crap goes on, and the more it is played out in public, the worse it's gonna get. And you thought the Tebow & Favre coverage was over the top? You ain't seen nothing yet!

Lucky
09-11-2010, 10:12 PM
If you were the owner of a company, would you be happy with giving your employees 60% of revenue? Not 60% of profit, but 60 % of revenue?
The equipment manager is an employee. The players are the product. No one is showing up to an empty stadium.

It's absurd compare the work of professional athletes to everyday jobs. They are entertainers. Performers. They're not timber cutters, teachers, nurses, janitors. All important jobs. But no one is showing up with hard earned $$$ to watch them chop trees, write on a chalkboard, change a bed pan, or mop the floor.

Well, maybe to watch Mario mop up Reliant with Peyton's enormous melon.

JB
09-11-2010, 10:16 PM
The equipment manager is an employee. The players are the product. No one is showing up to an empty stadium.

It's absurd compare the work of professional athletes to everyday jobs. They are entertainers. Performers. They're not timber cutters, teachers, nurses, janitors. All important jobs. But no one is showing up with hard earned $$$ to watch them chop trees, write on a chalkboard, change a bed pan, or mop the floor.

Well, maybe to watch Mario mop up Reliant with Peyton's enormous melon.

Ok, I should change it to the players are receiving 60% of revenue. But it really makes no difference to me how much the players are getting, other than how it changes how much I must pay.

WWJD
09-11-2010, 10:18 PM
Very good point. The longer this crap goes on, and the more it is played out in public, the worse it's gonna get. And you thought the Tebow & Favre coverage was over the top? You ain't seen nothing yet!

We'll be begging to find out more about Brett! :)

Seriously there won't be an ESPN or NFL Network show where this won't be played out ad nauseum...those sportswriters shows....your local sports....blogs and so forth.

I think I'll stick to the message board and just let you guys do all the work and link all the important coverage...I don't even pay to go to NFL games anymore and I don't have the stomach for this. I can't imagine how bad it will be for the paying customer. Get a good team finally and guess what? No football next year. Ugh.

By the time it's all said and done you'll be told a)the players are playing for very little comparable to what they're worth b)the owners are just barely making a profit and c)guess what? NFL football just got more expensive!

and a and b are lies. C is a certainty.

Lucky
09-11-2010, 10:33 PM
Ok, I should change it to the players are receiving 60% of revenue. But it really makes no difference to me how much the players are getting, other than how it changes how much I must pay.
That's it. It doesn't change a thing regarding how much you pay. The NFL will charge exactly what it can for its product. They aren't just pulling these ticket prices out of their collective arse. They know exactly what they can get away with to maximize their revenue. And from that $$$ (as well as their other revenue sources), they pay their talent an agreed upon percentage. Really, it should be transparent to the fans. But, the business of the game has become almost as fascinating to some fans as the game itself. I include myself among this group.

unabated
09-11-2010, 10:46 PM
"If we're not on the same page, No. 1, it's not going to work," Williams said. "We've got to be on the same page and be of one accord, and we'll be all right."

-- they better be on the same page in the game! Wish/Hope he (Williams) will be talking about some "one accord" football. Hopefully the Defensive Line is on the "same page".

Hagar
09-12-2010, 08:23 PM
I'm glad this didn't take place. Thanks players!

Revolution
09-12-2010, 08:27 PM
I'm glad this didn't take place. Thanks players!

It did. Right before the game...

J_R
09-12-2010, 08:34 PM
And the fans boo'd(or so I heard)

Revolution
09-12-2010, 08:39 PM
And the fans boo'd(or so I heard)

Yes we did...

SheTexan
09-12-2010, 09:08 PM
It did. Right before the game...

I didn't boo, but, can't say I liked it. BUT, it took nothing away from the game. I just want them to get it all worked out.

CloakNNNdagger
09-12-2010, 09:14 PM
I didn't boo, but, can't say I liked it. BUT, it took nothing away from the game. I just want them to get it all worked out.

It didn't add anything either. It wasn't done by all of the players. A lot of the attending crowd didn't even know it happened. Those that did as a rule did voice their disfavor.

thunderkyss
09-13-2010, 10:35 AM
They snuck it in right after the national anthem.

I'm glad some people were paying atention, and voiced their opinion.

I was screaming and cheering the National anthem when I saw them holding their fingers up. I told my daughter to stop cheering and we both sat down.

ziggy29
09-13-2010, 10:40 AM
I don't side with the players or the owners here, really, but I do think the NFLPA is delusional if they expect the average Joe Sixpack member of the endangered and shrinking middle class to relate to their "workplace oppression" which needs strong union action. They know *nothing* of the real workplace screwing that many in the middle class are enduring today.

I think the players are miscalculating in the arena of public opinion by doing this. The last thing struggling families, laid off workers and people enduring pay cuts want to hear is a claim from millionaires that their compensation isn't sufficient.

IMO, professional sports unions give working class unions a bad name by looking like they are never satisfied with way more than enough. Having said that, both sides are way out of touch. There's more than enough "pie" for both the players and the owners, and they are arguing over a small amount of pie which is already more than they can eat anyway.

Ole Miss Texan
09-13-2010, 10:45 AM
I'm going to be pissed if there's no games next season. Right when we're getting good, our players are starting their prime, we're poised to start our playoff/Super Bowl runs and no games?? I've got high hopes this season (we all do) and if we make the playoffs, even advancing in them, we're going to have so much momentum going into 2011. What a tease that would be.

spurstexanstros
09-13-2010, 10:49 AM
i booed because the flag wasnt even rolled up...I mean cmon guys show some respect for a country that lets you play a kids game and get paid. let the flag be taken off the field and let our space heroes (you know the guys who game up with the satellite dish=big paydays for nfl) get off the field before you make aplay for more money.

Also, I booed because those of us who are hit hard by the economy I dont want to see that when I come to escape my problems.

silvrhand
09-13-2010, 11:00 AM
they are just going to end up dropping the union, and if there is a strike I doubt many of them are going to walk away from the 1.9 million dollar average salary. What will then suck is that we'll be in a very interesting situation.

If there is a strike, and players cross the strike and we have strike games are we going to have to pay full prices for our tickets to maintain our PSL.

Ole Miss Texan
09-13-2010, 11:07 AM
I think a great compromise would be to adjust the way players are paid. Owners don't want to "give up" their share, I get that, but show some compromise and do this at the same time the NFLPA and Owners agree to a Rookie Pay Scale. Shift the $'s to veterans, not the rookies at the top of the draft. Veterans that earned it get paid more, rookies won't be handed $40 million guaranteed contracts, we'll have games and Owner's may not "make more" but the good news is that they will "lose less". Meaning, they won't be on the hook for those Jamarcus Russell type of busts.

hradhak
09-13-2010, 11:11 AM
they are just going to end up dropping the union, and if there is a strike I doubt many of them are going to walk away from the 1.9 million dollar average salary. What will then suck is that we'll be in a very interesting situation.

If there is a strike, and players cross the strike and we have strike games are we going to have to pay full prices for our tickets to maintain our PSL.
I hope this becomes a non-issue. The NFL is as popular as it has ever been and the strike knocked baseball on its ass for 5 years. I think most people with extremely unsympathetic to players and owners fighting it out over money when both sides are making a great deal to begin with.

I hope the NFL fixes this, otherwise a lot more more is going to be lost from a loss of fans than petty bickering can fix.

GP
09-13-2010, 11:18 AM
i booed because the flag wasnt even rolled up...I mean cmon guys show some respect for a country that lets you play a kids game and get paid. let the flag be taken off the field and let our space heroes (you know the guys who game up with the satellite dish=big paydays for nfl) get off the field before you make aplay for more money.

Also, I booed because those of us who are hit hard by the economy I dont want to see that when I come to escape my problems.

Well said.

I hope they get rookie salaries fixed. This needs to be the last year of the outrageous rookie contract. I don't care how good the guy might be, or will be, because he has got to prove it first.

People like Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf prove that hundreds of millions of dollars go down the drain. That loss of money affects everyone.

And I want HUGE deductions taken from players' salaries, to fund a real retirement program. Pay out, when you retire, is based on how many games you played in. Not how many years. GAMES. the guys who take the most damage to their bodies should get the biggest chunks of coin to help pay for therapy and other medical costs.

There is a right way to do things, but will somebody stand up and makeit happen...or will both sides find ways to gain more for themselves and essentially let greed own their souls?

I will watch scabs play the NFL games. Anybody who says "I'll take the money" is fine by me. These players need to remember they work for many bosses (us fans are included as one of those bosses). They should get things done for themselves, but they have got to realize that rookie salaries and a lack of a true retirement/medical pension is what's the most damaging to their side of the table.

Texan_Bill
09-13-2010, 11:24 AM
I didn't Boo, but I did give the players a one finger salute of my own! :lion:

hobie
09-13-2010, 12:07 PM
I didn't Boo, but I did give the players a one finger salute of my own! :lion:

Always one to be "different" aren't ya !!

disaacks3
09-13-2010, 12:34 PM
they are just going to end up dropping the union, and if there is a strike I doubt many of them are going to walk away from the 1.9 million dollar average salary. What will then suck is that we'll be in a very interesting situation.

If there is a strike, and players cross the strike and we have strike games are we going to have to pay full prices for our tickets to maintain our PSL. We will have to pay for the tickets as scheduled, BUT.... the $$ will be refunded pro-rata for any /all games NOT played.

ziggy29
09-13-2010, 12:50 PM
And I want HUGE deductions taken from players' salaries, to fund a real retirement program. Pay out, when you retire, is based on how many games you played in. Not how many years. GAMES. the guys who take the most damage to their bodies should get the biggest chunks of coin to help pay for therapy and other medical costs.

Especially for the older veterans who never got the multimillion dollar salaries and who are disabled from football injuries (and thus can't work and support themselves or their families). I believe both ownership and the NFLPA have been almost criminally derelict in their moral obligation to support those wounded warriors who made today's multibillion dollar NFL possible, starting with livable pensions and full medical care (particularly for football-related medical problems).

Every player, especially those making eight figure signing bonuses before ever playing a down in the NFL, owes a LOT to these aging, often crippled alumni from decades past. They paved Easy Street with gold for those who came after them and got relatively little in the process.

HOU-TEX
09-13-2010, 01:28 PM
HOU-TEX definitely sported a "sign of solidarity" around 3 PM yesterday. :embarrass:

Texan_Bill
09-13-2010, 01:30 PM
HOU-TEX definitely sported a "sign of solidarity" around 3 PM yesterday. :embarrass:

:dontknowa

That's bad! Really bad!!

HOU-TEX
09-13-2010, 02:21 PM
:dontknowa

That's bad! Really bad!!

:lol: at your rep comment

Rey
09-13-2010, 05:09 PM
Had no problem with what the players did..

All they are doing is brining awarness to what is really going on. Doesn't matter to me if they get their salaries cut or not...

But I don't have a problem with them doing something that makes people talk about what's happening. As I said, many fans think that the players are asking for more money and I think that they just want to clarify what's happening. I slso don't blame them for just taking a paycut and being happy with it.

I could care less about the results of all this...just want some football...

SheTexan
09-13-2010, 06:06 PM
Had no problem with what the players did..

All they are doing is brining awarness to what is really going on. Doesn't matter to me if they get their salaries cut or not...

But I don't have a problem with them doing something that makes people talk about what's happening. As I said, many fans think that the players are asking for more money and I think that they just want to clarify what's happening. I slso don't blame them for just taking a paycut and being happy with it.

I could care less about the results of all this...just want some football...


I bet 98% of the fans at Reliant on Sunday had NO idea what they meant! They probably thought they were just shooting each other the bird!!:)

Shaft75
09-13-2010, 06:17 PM
Solidarity...

http://www.texansbullpen.com/10photogallery/Season/2010-09-12-Colts-Texans/1stQuarter/DSC_0337.JPG

TexanExile
09-14-2010, 09:13 PM
I heard Bud Adams was warming up his "sign of solidarity" for next week too...

http://slanchreport.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/bud-adams-flipping-the-bird.jpg