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beerlover
03-18-2005, 08:06 PM
several players look pretty sharp, one who doesn't, anyone want to go Baas fishing?

MICHIGAN (March 18th) senior wide receiver BRAYLON EDWARDS ran between 4.42 and 4.45 in the 40... 38" vertical... 4.02 short shuttle... 6.83 three-cone... weighed in at 6027, 210 pounds... caught all of the balls thrown his way... ran crisp routes and caught the ball with his hands... most felt he had posted the kind of workout necessary to give himself a shot to be taken in the Top-3 picks if not #1 overall... had lunch and spent part of the afternoon with Nick Saban and Rick Spielman of the Dolphins, earlier met with members of the 49ers and head coach Lovie Smith of the Bears... "(He) gave us what we came to see today... that was a very impressive workout... very good (numbers) on the 40... then went out and caught the ball with precision... (I) gotta think he's put himself right up there among the top guys", according to one NFL scouting director... senior defensive back MARLIN JACKSON ran between 4.43 and 4.49 in the 40... which was a big improvement from the 4.6 range times he posted at the Combine... weighed in at 6007, 194 pounds... also did very well in his positional drills... many felt he looked sharp in those drills at the Combine, as well... being evaluated at both cornerback and safety... junior safety ERNEST SHAZOR ran between 4.61 and 4.71 in the 40... his times varied among the watches... but he seemed to pull up on his second 40-time and opted not to continue with the rest of the drills... while he was obviously upset by his times... there were a number of scouts/teams more upset with his inability to put that behind him... a true medical examination and determination if he could have done the rest of his workout might be his only saving grace... senior offensive lineman DAVID BAAS did only positional drills, but looked very sharp and continues to be evaluated as both a center and guard.

D-ReK
03-18-2005, 08:46 PM
Looks like Jackson actually is a viable option at safety...When he posted a 4.6, it seemed as if he'd have to be a FS to make it in the NFL...He'll probably be an early 2nd rounder now...

Shazor may take a nose-dive after his bad results, and if he's there in the 3rd, I wouldn't mind taking a shot at him...

I was kinda hoping Baas would have a bad pro day so that he might fall to us in the 2nd, but it's looking like he'll be gone by then...

beerlover
03-19-2005, 12:11 AM
why not select David Baas with the 13th pick? give me one good reason how any other player you know that will be available when the Texans pick that could have a bigger impact? i'm setting myself up as the sacrifical lamb, but really think about it. #1 it adds talent to the line #2 it adds youth to the line #3 it adds depth to the line #4 it adds unity to the line #5 it adds protection to David Carr. i know, i know he is projected a late 1st round pick, but if we don't take him @ #13 or find a way to trade down (not guaranteed) we lose this guy.

also we have been focusing on using him at center and rolling over McKinney but what about Zach Wiegert (11 years in the NFL & not getting any younger)? Baas has been working on the center skill set to improve his marketabilty but he is a guard through and through. the tapes indicate he is a dominate LG, I would insert him next to Wand LT. Pitts should then be given every opportunity to prove he is a better guard than Weigart, if he can't beat him out in open competition for the starting RG then he sits. it should all be about competition until the established starters can be unseated. this would give the Texans a solid OL of Wand, Baas, McKinney, Pitts/Wiegert & Wade. give Baas time to develop his center skills and in the meantime give David Carr a break & not become broken.

i'd love the Texans to draft a great young corner like Carlos Rogers & I'm fine with that but if they do address another need they somehow must find a way to trade back down into the 1st round to grab Baas, the combinations and development of the future of the Texans offensive line depends upon it not some high priced free agent, we need to develop our own draft picks our own identity :twocents:

DoCt3rJ
03-19-2005, 01:02 AM
You don't take a player based on need that early in the first round.

outofhnd
03-19-2005, 03:22 AM
I dont think unless Barron falls to us at 13 that we will take Baas that high. Unless Wand steps up tremendously we may be looking at wiegarts replacement in Wand. He could definately take on Big Name DT's and hold his ground. He also wont be pitted against a speed rushing DT there is no such thing. Barron will be our pick if available if not I think we go the route of Spears from LSU.

D-ReK
03-19-2005, 04:21 AM
No way we take Baas at 13...I wouldn't be totally against it, but from a contract standpoint, he would be paid too much...

The Preacher
03-19-2005, 10:08 AM
No doubt I think you're on the right track here. It's hard to think we should draft more offensive power if DC is getting pummeled. I have seen few mocks with Bass going anywhere near #13 and I haven't seen his tapes but you guys seem so sold on him I hope we can snag him somehow. If we can move down to the bottom of round one Philly has tons of picks maybe they give up their #1 plus one of their #2's for #13. You know that they're drooling to get another Freak-like defender like Merriman. Imagine those two together. I know we tried to get Pace but it seems that if they thought our line was that desperate they would have paid huge money for Wahle or somebody else to safeguard Carr. They could have used the money we paid Greenwood with or done whatever to get better protection even though it would of been expensive but they didn't. That tells me they are not as worried as we are but I'm sure they're on edge somewhat and would like to get a strong lineman. I just don't know if they will want to that early with the depth in mid-tier talent.

edo783
03-19-2005, 10:22 AM
The thing that concerns me about how the team is looking at the O-line is that with Wahl and the center from the Ravens it's not that we didn't get them it's that we didn't even seem to try. Given that, does it mean that we have made a decision to do it all through the draft? If so, I suspect that we take Barron (I am not all that high on him) and then trade back into the bottom of the 1st for Bass sort of like for Babin. I can allready hear the wailing and knashing of teeth if we use up the second and thirds to do that. My personal preference would be a top CB, then an NT like Castillio and then two O-line guys in the 3rd. About the only thing certain in the draft is that Charly will do something that will have us all scratching our heads at.

beerlover
03-19-2005, 10:27 AM
I expected as much if not more, how much does a 13th pick stand to pick-up anyway? look I don't think it matters how you do it so long as you do it. we are looking here at a 10+ year starter, I'd be going out on a limb and add a PRO BOWL starter to the Texans offensive line. David Baas comes from Michigan university of offensive lineman, they just don't develop this position any better any where else. as a bonus he is learning the center position which is something you don't just throw someone into especially at the Pro level. bottom line there is no way anyone can convince me that a possible 10 year pro bowl caliber offensive lineman is not worth the 13th pick and what ever the salary is they have to pay him when the franchise QB is being layed out flat on his back game after game. the key point is that the Texans line is really close to becoming much better, but they need a young stud, star inserted for his toughness & leadership, then and only then will Carr regain his confidence in his protection and be able to stand in the pocket selecting his targets with the accuracy we all know he is capable of :whistle:

The Preacher
03-19-2005, 10:35 AM
It's definitely a huge cause for concern. Look at what Brady does it seems he always had time even against Pittsburgh. A good pro QB with time will put some big points on the board. I imagine the FO figures since last year was the first year at their new position for most of our o-line and they were all in a new scheme they can only get a lot better let's just hope so for DC's sake because I doubt the draft will make a huge difference in next year's lineup.

nunusguy
03-19-2005, 10:39 AM
For the record, NFL.COM reporting Edwards times were more in the 4.50
range than down by 4.40. And 40 times do matter for WRs - not everything,
but an important consideration.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts#mich

BuffSoldier
03-19-2005, 11:38 AM
why not select David Baas with the 13th pick? give me one good reason how any other player you know that will be available when the Texans pick that could have a bigger impact? i'm setting myself up as the sacrifical lamb, but really think about it. #1 it adds talent to the line #2 it adds youth to the line #3 it adds depth to the line #4 it adds unity to the line #5 it adds protection to David Carr. i know, i know he is projected a late 1st round pick, but if we don't take him @ #13 or find a way to trade down (not guaranteed) we lose this guy.

also we have been focusing on using him at center and rolling over McKinney but what about Zach Wiegert (11 years in the NFL & not getting any younger)? Baas has been working on the center skill set to improve his marketabilty but he is a guard through and through. the tapes indicate he is a dominate LG, I would insert him next to Wand LT. Pitts should then be given every opportunity to prove he is a better guard than Weigart, if he can't beat him out in open competition for the starting RG then he sits. it should all be about competition until the established starters can be unseated. this would give the Texans a solid OL of Wand, Baas, McKinney, Pitts/Wiegert & Wade. give Baas time to develop his center skills and in the meantime give David Carr a break & not become broken.

i'd love the Texans to draft a great young corner like Carlos Rogers & I'm fine with that but if they do address another need they somehow must find a way to trade back down into the 1st round to grab Baas, the combinations and development of the future of the Texans offensive line depends upon it not some high priced free agent, we need to develop our own draft picks our own identity :twocents:


We dont take Bass at 13 because, it would be a waste to use that high of a pick on someone who probably wouldnt even start his rookie year. Not to mention that we are not that desperate for a OG/OC that we would need to pass up better overall prospects to select a player that will fall low in the 1st and maybe high second where we could trade up for him. Not to mention that this year is a deep year at the Center position, and we could pick up Elton Brown a pretty good guard in his own right in the 2nd.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-19-2005, 11:52 AM
Ravens would gladly take Shazor in the 2nd round if he falls that far. That would pretty much complete their switch to the 46 defense.

Vinny
03-19-2005, 12:08 PM
I really like Shazor as a prospect but he may slip to the 3rd round after throwing down 4.7's.

beerlover
03-19-2005, 12:14 PM
he is a physical beast never the less & should be well suited for NFL poundage, but I wonder what the speed range really is for NFL Strong Safety? it may depend more upon who he compliments, how well he fits into a particular system & severity of need rather than raw speed, for instance I would think the Packers would take him in the 2nd if he still where available :cool:

Vinny
03-19-2005, 12:17 PM
He projects to a linebacker imo.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-19-2005, 12:22 PM
Hey Vinny, what do you think of Michael Boley? SS or OLB

beerlover
03-19-2005, 12:41 PM
We dont take Bass at 13 because, it would be a waste to use that high of a pick on someone who probably wouldnt even start his rookie year. Not to mention that we are not that desperate for a OG/OC that we would need to pass up better overall prospects to select a player that will fall low in the 1st and maybe high second where we could trade up for him. Not to mention that this year is a deep year at the Center position, and we could pick up Elton Brown a pretty good guard in his own right in the 2nd.

once again let me clarify, I expected as much the negativity of selecting Baas with the 13th pick. I also like the rumors with Carolina & trading down so they can pick Troy Williamson. I don't really care how they do it, or how they parlay the draft in order to accomplish selecting Baas as long as they do it. as far as offensive lineman in this draft he is the most sure thing and this is what the Texans need to address. just for kicks I'm pasting and copying off another Mock done by a fan, just another opinion that supports a certain sense of urgency to look @ taking Baas before the 24th selection (forget about the 2nd rd people) also threw in Cody, since he was just selected with the Texans 13th pick in our own MOCK II Draft :tiptoe:

24. Green Bay Packers- David Baas OG Michigan- Proved he was the best OG at the combine. He has quick feet and is strong. The depth on the offensive line was thin enough already and now with Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera gone the O-line is just falling apart. They need an offensive lineman to come in and make an immediate impact. However they also need a quarterback that legend Brett Favre can teach over his last couple years, but Green Bay fans donít want to settle for just anyone which makes that need a real priority.

25. Denver Broncos- Shaun Cody DT/DE USC- Speedy with a good pass rush. Can play defensive end and defensive tackle. The defensive should be Shanahanís biggest worry on draft day. The depth behind starters Pope and Fatafehi is aging like most of the team. They did sign DT Gerard Warren which will help.

Vinny
03-19-2005, 12:42 PM
Hey Vinny, what do you think of Michael Boley? SS or OLBFunny, I was just posting about our new-look linebackers somewhere else. This may sound bonkers but he may be the kind of guy we look to put in the middle. It looks like we reviewed our prototype body in this position group and decided smaller/compact isn't so bad. The last two linebackers we have signed are both under 240 and both 6'0". I think it is obvious we are looking for more speed in the middle of the field and may draft an OLB from College to play the middle in our defense. Most people are looking at College ILB's to translate to our ILB's but that may be a mistake.

Otherwise, I don't have much of an opinion on Boley since I didn't catch him on the tube this last year, but from what I have read on him he seems exactly like the kind of guy we may be looking at.

Hottoddie
03-19-2005, 01:26 PM
Barring a trade down, I can't see us taking Baas with the 13th pick. I see us taking an impact LB, CB, or Barron with the 13th pick. However, a WR or RB could be considered, if one of Edwards, Williams, Brown, or Benson should drop that far.

With the 13th pick, you have to take an impact player at a skill position. Or, at least that's my opinion.

I don't get it why everyone are so high on Baas as our replacement at center for McKinney. While Baas has a nice mean streak, he's not the best center in the draft. That honor goes to Chris Spencer & he can be had with our 2nd round pick, or possibly, with our 3rd round pick.

Baas is the best guard prospect in the draft, that can also be switched to the center position. He'd still have a learning curve if we switch him to center.

Here's a crazy idea. Trade down for a lower pick in the 20's & pick up an extra 2nd round pick, draft Baas, then pick up Spencer with one of our 2nd round picks & Khalif Barnes with the other. That'd give us an eventual OL of Barnes, Pitts, Spencer, Baas, & Wade. It'd be a little dicey for Carr the 1st year, but every year from then on could be sweeet. :D

Vinny
03-19-2005, 02:31 PM
Baas won the outland trophy as the best Center in the Nation. It's not like he is new to the position. Opinions are mixed on who is the best Center in this draft also.

Hottoddie
03-19-2005, 03:00 PM
Baas won the outland trophy as the best Center in the Nation. It's not like he is new to the position. Opinions are mixed on who is the best Center in this draft also.

So?!? How many Lombardi/Heisman trophy winners never did anything in the pros? It's a nice award & deserving of respect, but it doesn't automatically stamp stardom on the player.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that Baas is going to be a star in this league & is the better overall prospect between him & Spencer. But, in my opinion, drafting a player in the 1st round to play a position that can be filled by a player of equal, or better (depending upon whose opinion you listen to), talent in the 2nd round just doesn't make sense to me. Unless, of course, you can trade down to the 20-30 range & acquire an extra pick or two.

In my opinion, since it may be difficult to trade down for fair value this year, the 13th pick has got to be used on the BPA, & Baas won't be that player.

By the way, we know that there have been many Heisman Trophy winners that've turned out to be busts, but does anyone have any numbers on the success/failure of the players that have won the Outland/Lombardi Trophies? I think that would be a very interesting read.

beerlover
03-19-2005, 04:55 PM
they say a picture is worth a thousand words

http://www.detnews.com/pix/2004/03/26/sports/se26-baas-0304y-4.jpg