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El Tejano
08-30-2010, 12:55 PM
Why aren't we talking about our Red Zone percentage in this last game? We were in there 4 times and only came out with one TD (that was the one where KJ returned his INT). That game could've easily been 28-0 at halftime.

If we want to beat Indy we gotta get better at this. Indy is going to score points. We gotta score more. I've noticed the teams that keep the pressure on Manning (not sack pressure, pressure to score) typically are the teams that beat them. We can't do that settling for FGs when we have the ball at the 5 yd line.

I wish I could see that killer instinct.

Tailgate
08-30-2010, 12:57 PM
Holding penalty cost us 1 TD. A couple 3rd and longs in other situations if I remember correctly??

I think as long as we continue to run the ball, and stay away from reverses or half back passes this area should improve despite the percentages from Sat night.

beerlover
08-30-2010, 01:01 PM
Why aren't we talking about our Red Zone percentage in this last game? We were in there 4 times and only came out with one TD (that was the one where KJ returned his INT). That game could've easily been 28-0 at halftime.

If we want to beat Indy we gotta get better at this. Indy is going to score points. We gotta score more. I've noticed the teams that keep the pressure on Manning (not sack pressure, pressure to score) typically are the teams that beat them. We can't do that settling for FGs when we have the ball at the 5 yd line.

I wish I could see that killer instinct.

I'm not sure its killer instinct as much as lack of red zone talent. other than Schaub to Andre everyone else seem like a group of overachievers, IMO. If you don't think so what is the next highest drafted starting offensive playmaker on the Texans?

El Tejano
08-30-2010, 01:01 PM
We got lucky on the TD too because of that defensive penalty when Ware hit Schaub from behind.

I don't want the same thing as last year. We got to score a TD more than kick FGs.

El Tejano
08-30-2010, 01:02 PM
I'm not sure its killer instinct as much as lack of red zone talent. other than Schaub to Andre everyone else seem like a group of overachievers, IMO. If you don't think so what is the next highest drafted starting offensive playmaker on the Texans?

Owen Daniels. He wasn't playing but I'm curious how much more he helps. Although he was in the Jville and Az game last year too.

badboy
08-30-2010, 01:21 PM
Owen Daniels. He wasn't playing but I'm curious how much more he helps. Although he was in the Jville and Az game last year too.TEs will play a huge role in Red Zone imo during regular season.

El Tejano
08-30-2010, 01:35 PM
TEs will play a huge role in Red Zone imo during regular season.

Honestly if Daniels wants to be mentioned in the Gates or Witten light, this is where he will have to become a star.

Rey
08-30-2010, 01:37 PM
I really think that this past games failed red zone attempts were due to lack of execution...Schaub missed on a few passes...Myers had the holding penalty...

I think we have the players to get it done but we just need better execution and more creative play calling down there.

sportfan73
08-30-2010, 01:38 PM
we still fail to ever throw the ball into the endzone, it's just a series of short crossing routes and WR screens, need to add something different to the arsenal

rmartin65
08-30-2010, 01:41 PM
Owen Daniels. He wasn't playing but I'm curious how much more he helps. Although he was in the Jville and Az game last year too.

Jacoby Jones was a third rounder, as was Slaton (I dont know if you could count him as a weapon right now. But the talent is there).

Rey
08-30-2010, 01:43 PM
Owen Daniels. He wasn't playing but I'm curious how much more he helps. Although he was in the Jville and Az game last year too.

Jacoby Jones was a third rounder, as was Slaton (I dont know if you could count him as a weapon right now. But the talent is there).

Gotta mention Duane Brown, Eric Winston, and Antoine Caldwell.

And while Walter wasn't drafted high, he has clearly played up to the level of atleast a fourth rd. draft pick.

Rey
08-30-2010, 01:44 PM
I'd like to see James Casey get involved in some goal line packages too...

Despite what people have said about Dre always needing to be on the field, I would not mind seeing us use 3 TE's down there...Casey, Dreesen, Daniels with leach as the FB and either Slaton or Foster as the RB and Leach at fullback.

That'd make it tough for defenses because all of those TE's are good receiving targets, but we'd still be able to come out and pound the defense.

We have some capable RZ weapons, I just think we need to get more creative (not stupid ala the half back pass) in how we use them.

ChampionTexan
08-30-2010, 01:48 PM
This could be one area where if the playcalling is significantly different than past seasons, they may just be keeping their powder dry and saving it for a real game.

That said, if the main difference Dennison brings to the RZ offense is the concept of running it down their throat, then they're closer, but they're not there so far.

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2010, 01:50 PM
I think in the regular season, there's going to be less passing and more running in the red zone (at least, once we get inside the 10). And I think that's going to improve our RZ%.

DexmanC
08-30-2010, 02:27 PM
I think the Texans are trying to hide the fact, we're gonna get a
heavy dose of Arian Foster in the RedZone. He looks like the
second-coming of Terrell Davis, when it comes to his vision.

El Tejano
08-30-2010, 02:31 PM
I think the Texans are trying to hide the fact, we're gonna get a
heavy dose of Arian Foster in the RedZone. He looks like the
second-coming of Terrell Davis, when it comes to his vision.

Oh how great that would be!!!

Norg
08-30-2010, 02:35 PM
Umm all teams have problems in the red zone plus we will be better off

with OD coming back wade smith getting better and other oline depth along with Garrett getting better with the two tight end sets hell maybe 3 and a stable Run game i think we will be fine u wanna get better in the red zone its obvs Run the ball better and we are doing that


and didnt we score more points then the colts last week yeah nuff said and the colts still cant get the running game going they hate the new Ref rule and we seen what is OBVS Blitz manning every down with all your arsenal and stuff might happen LOL

El Tejano
08-30-2010, 02:41 PM
Umm all teams have problems in the red zone plus we will be better off

with OD coming back wade smith getting better and other oline depth along with Garrett getting better with the two tight end sets hell maybe 3 and a stable Run game i think we will be fine u wanna get better in the red zone its obvs Run the ball better and we are doing that


and didnt we score more points then the colts last week yeah nuff said and the colts still cant get the running game going they hate the new Ref rule and we seen what is OBVS Blitz manning every down with all your arsenal and stuff might happen LOL

If there was one team that doesn't show what they really can do, it would be Indy. Peyton is an OC on the field while playing QB. He knows that offense so well.

beerlover
08-30-2010, 02:49 PM
I think the Texans are trying to hide the fact, we're gonna get a
heavy dose of Arian Foster in the RedZone. He looks like the
second-coming of Terrell Davis, when it comes to his vision.

here is some evidence to support your theory http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/First-Down-Now-do-you-believe-in-Arian-Foster-s?urn=fantasy-265848 I just want to see it over the course of regular season/playoffs :worldpeace:

Norg
08-30-2010, 02:50 PM
If there was one team that doesn't show what they really can do, it would be Indy. Peyton is an OC on the field while playing QB. He knows that offense so well.

still has no running game iam telling u the texans are not going to respect the colts run game wk 1 with addai getting a concussion and being banged up along with the colts O line injuries we will be in a Nickle D all day long

along with prob doubling Clark and Wayne and BLitzing Manning if the colts are going to win week 1 its going to be all peyton so yeah i thinks thats going to be our gameplan nothing has changed LOL

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2010, 02:53 PM
still has no running game iam telling u the texans are not going to respect the colts run game wk 1 with addai getting a concussion and being banged up along with the colts O line injuries we will be in a Nickle D all day long

along with prob doubling Clark and Wayne and BLitzing Manning if the colts are going to win week 1 its going to be all peyton so yeah i thinks thats going to be our gameplan nothing has changed LOL

Dude, Norg, dude.

Punctuation is your friend, man.

Giant Tiger
08-30-2010, 03:39 PM
Why aren't we talking about our Red Zone percentage in this last game? We were in there 4 times and only came out with one TD (that was the one where KJ returned his INT). That game could've easily been 28-0 at halftime.

If we want to beat Indy we gotta get better at this. Indy is going to score points. We gotta score more. I've noticed the teams that keep the pressure on Manning (not sack pressure, pressure to score) typically are the teams that beat them. We can't do that settling for FGs when we have the ball at the 5 yd line.

I wish I could see that killer instinct.

I agree, we need TDs. We have to play better than the Colts to win the game. The Colts won a few games last year even when they were outplayed. I just hope we don't have to settle for FGs after moving the ball between the 20's & working the clock.

Rey
08-30-2010, 04:15 PM
I'm rewatching the game on NFL network and we are killing ourselves in the RZ.

Underthrown balls, generic play calling. These are fixable things that I think we will be better at during the season.

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2010, 04:17 PM
I'm rewatching the game on NFL network and we are killing ourselves in the RZ.

Underthrown balls, generic play calling. These are fixable things that I think we will be better at during the season.

Yeah, I felt like the play calling was kinda generic in the RZ, too.

I'm hoping that's just saving the good stuff for the regular season but I've been fooled like that before.

Texecutioner
08-30-2010, 04:20 PM
We still don't have a power running game, and the ZBS just doesn't work well with our players in the Red Zone for short yardage situations. We don't have a bunch of 380 pound O ineman that can push the piles easy. Our guys are more finnese on the O line than they are power.


We need to get it fixed though, that's for sure. I'm sick to death of the RZ woes costing us so much games and last year it cost us the playoffs.

hookinreds
08-30-2010, 04:21 PM
i'm rewatching the game on nfl network and we are killing ourselves in the rz.

Underthrown balls, generic play calling. These are fixable things that i hopewill be better at during the season.

fify

dinkatoid
08-30-2010, 04:30 PM
Honestly if Daniels wants to be mentioned in the Gates or Witten light, this is where he will have to become a star.

Actually, strangely, Witten is no longer much of a redzone guy. Daniels was close to as productive in half a season last year as Witten was all year. I just read this earlier from the ESPN 32 questions fantasy article on Dallas:

"Witten has six scores the past two seasons combined, and that's not even the most alarming part. In '09, Witten got only seven looks inside an opponent's red zone. By way of contrast, Greg Olsen had 24. And in '08, Witten had only six red zone targets. (Tony Gonzalez led tight ends that year with 22.)"

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=nfldk2k10cowboys32q

Jackie Chiles
08-30-2010, 04:52 PM
We still don't have a power running game, and the ZBS just doesn't work well with our players in the Red Zone for short yardage situations. We don't have a bunch of 380 pound O ineman that can push the piles easy. Our guys are more finnese on the O line than they are power.


We need to get it fixed though, that's for sure. I'm sick to death of the RZ woes costing us so much games and last year it cost us the playoffs.

The last couple of games the line has looked pretty physical. They didn't get much of a chance against NO because of turnovers but Foster looked like he had some holes and made the most of them. I think this running game is primed for a complete 180, in fact I'll predict the most productive running game in our history in terms of yardage and potentially ypc and touchdowns.

Also, they have been mixing in multiple running plays that aren't zone, I saw quite a bit of pulling and our line definitely has the athleticism to be productive in that regard.

GP
08-30-2010, 04:57 PM
Holding penalty cost us 1 TD. A couple 3rd and longs in other situations if I remember correctly??

I think as long as we continue to run the ball, and stay away from reverses or half back passes this area should improve despite the percentages from Sat night.

I agree, tailgate.

The hard yards for this team is anywhere around 2 or 3 yards out from the goal line. Always has been.

But I see Foster changing that habit of ours. I think we'll be fine. They need to do more creative plays with Andre like the one where he came in motion as if it was a jet sweep, snapped the ball, and then threw it to him on a slick little pass play from inside the 5.

Cjeremy635
08-30-2010, 05:22 PM
Yeah, I felt like the play calling was kinda generic in the RZ, too.

I'm hoping that's just saving the good stuff for the regular season but I've been fooled like that before.

This is what my hopes are hanging on. I remember someone asking the new OC about what he planned on changing and he said something along the lines of "I just plan on looking at the things that we didn't do well and improve on those." I remember that the running game and red zone scoring were both things that he thought he could fix. I hope that he has a lot of good stuff stacked away that he's saving for week 1 to allow us to stomp the crap out of the Colts.

I've seen a couple of things this preseason that I don't remember seeing before, mainly the way they were rushing Mario and such. I think with the way that Foster is running, we are going to have a couple of different ways to score as the field shrinks. I like our chances.

Rey
08-30-2010, 05:26 PM
We still don't have a power running game, and the ZBS just doesn't work well with our players in the Red Zone for short yardage situations. We don't have a bunch of 380 pound O ineman that can push the piles easy. Our guys are more finnese on the O line than they are power.


We need to get it fixed though, that's for sure. I'm sick to death of the RZ woes costing us so much games and last year it cost us the playoffs.

I tend to agree.

But they can look pretty good at times...Especially with Foster back there...

Last year against the Pats we prison pounded them in the red zone, and against Dallas we were able to run it in from the one and if Myers doesn't get called for holding, that would have been another nice RZ run...

Texecutioner
08-30-2010, 05:42 PM
I tend to agree.

But they can look pretty good at times...Especially with Foster back there...

Last year against the Pats we prison pounded them in the red zone, and against Dallas we were able to run it in from the one and if Myers doesn't get called for holding, that would have been another nice RZ run...

Well the RB position really isn't the problem as much to me. I'm just not sure if our system and our personal on the O line is built well for pushing a huge pile when the other team's D line is stacked on the GL with their biggest guys. The way we run the ZBS, it's more about the quickness and versatility and athleticism from our LIneman than it is about the ruthless power and domination in the trenches. That works great when on the 50 yard line on 1st and 10 and 2nd and 6, but I don't think it always carries over as well on the GL with how this offensive line is built.

It might be better to get some toss plays and hitch pass plays in our playbook that are still running plays but aren't the typical "pound it up the middle" or HB dive type plays. Those plays move your RB back a little, but it gives them more space to work with and gives them more options of running lanes to choose from. We were terrible on the GL last season, and it wasn't just because our RB's kept fumbling. They didn't have a lot of room to run on a lot of those plays last year, because our O line struggled a lot to push the pile.

It's one game to look at though, so maybe it won't be as bad, and we're certainly not the only team that has struggled with the plays inside the 5. It's not one of the easier things to be good at in any offense. I think we're a great offense inside the 20, but once we get around the 7 yard line on in, we have a lot or problems.

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2010, 06:18 PM
Well the RB position really isn't the problem as much to me. I'm just not sure if our system and our personal on the O line is built well for pushing a huge pile when the other team's D line is stacked on the GL with their biggest guys. The way we run the ZBS, it's more about the quickness and versatility and athleticism from our LIneman than it is about the ruthless power and domination in the trenches. That works great when on the 50 yard line on 1st and 10 and 2nd and 6, but I don't think it always carries over as well on the GL with how this offensive line is built.

It might be better to get some toss plays and hitch pass plays in our playbook that are still running plays but aren't the typical "pound it up the middle" or HB dive type plays. Those plays move your RB back a little, but it gives them more space to work with and gives them more options of running lanes to choose from. We were terrible on the GL last season, and it wasn't just because our RB's kept fumbling. They didn't have a lot of room to run on a lot of those plays last year, because our O line struggled a lot to push the pile.

It's one game to look at though, so maybe it won't be as bad, and we're certainly not the only team that has struggled with the plays inside the 5. It's not one of the easier things to be good at in any offense. I think we're a great offense inside the 20, but once we get around the 7 yard line on in, we have a lot or problems.

The Denver team from which we are descended, frequently had a very high Red Zone percentage despite their smaller linemen. IIRC, several times under Kubiak and at least once under Dennison, Denver was up at the top of the league in Red Zone percentage (I'm trying to look that up right now to verify but I'm having internet issues. And I can't find historical stats older than 2008.)

I think a huge part of our problem last year was our running backs not reading the line correctly and leaving yards (and points) on the field. I think Arian reads the line better, hits it harder when he gets there, and gets more yards in those situations. With Foster in for those last 2 games last season, our Red Zone percentage was at 80%. Hopefully, we'll be able to reproduce that.

BUT. Last year, we were 13th in the league in Red Zone percentage (with a percentage of 52.5%) while we had been 26th in the league the year before (46.0%). So as bad as it was last year, it was a huge improvement from the year before. NOTE: I found a site with Red Zone percentages from 2009 and what they had listed doesn't match what I see for the Texans last game, so I'm not sure this last paragraph is accurate.

thunderkyss
08-30-2010, 06:37 PM
BUT. Last year, we were 13th in the league in Red Zone percentage (with a percentage of 52.5%) while we had been 26th in the league the year before (46.0%). So as bad as it was last year, it was a huge improvement from the year before. NOTE: I found a site with Red Zone percentages from 2009 and what they had listed doesn't match what I see for the Texans last game, so I'm not sure this last paragraph is accurate.

I had been asking for a comparison between '08 & '09. I felt like we had done much better. I remember several times running the stretch, with Slaton or Moats diving in.

Up the middle, I don't think we did well, never understood why we tried so many time to run straight up the middle.

JB
08-30-2010, 06:42 PM
I had been asking for a comparison between '08 & '09. I felt like we had done much better. I remember several times running the stretch, with Slaton or Moats diving in.

Up the middle, I don't think we did well, never understood why we tried so many time to run straight up the middle.

I'm hoping we mix it up more in the zone with 3 WR sets and 2 TE sets and utilize lots of motion.

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2010, 06:54 PM
I had been asking for a comparison between '08 & '09. I felt like we had done much better. I remember several times running the stretch, with Slaton or Moats diving in.

Up the middle, I don't think we did well, never understood why we tried so many time to run straight up the middle.

I worse comes to worst, I'll go through the game logs and figure out how we did on those two years.

But I'm not going through ALL the game logs and figuring out how everybody else did to get our rank.

Cjeremy635
08-30-2010, 08:07 PM
I worse comes to worst, I'll go through the game logs and figure out how we did on those two years.

But I'm not going through ALL the game logs and figuring out how everybody else did to get our rank.

And you call yourself a dedicated poster? Hmmm...pretty selfish if you ask me!


I kid, I appreciate the info you already posted.