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record
08-29-2010, 02:34 PM
Our rookie CB is worlds better than Dunta was last season. That in itself is going to greatly improve the Texans D. Yes, he will have some growing pains in his rookie season and will give up a few big plays, but Dunta was just horrendous in 2009. Anyone that believes our young DBs and D in general will be worse off without "Mr. Pay Me Rick" didn't watch the games last year. It couldn't get much worse and it appears to be about to get a whole lot better. I notice Kareem running stride for stride with his man along with good awareness of the ball. He looks to be another rock solid pick by the Texans.

Consistently building through years of good draft picks is the only way to produce long term stability of winning results in the NFL. I realize that the Texans have only been a mediocre NFL franchise, at best, since their inception, but I really feel like this team is close to turning the corner into being an upper echelon NFL team that is consistently in the playoffs and competing for the Super Bowl year in and out. I am very hopeful that this is the season in which all of our growing pains pay off. We are still a relatively young team that is getting close to our prime. It will be greatly due in part to 4 years of good drafts including this most recent one and Kareem Jackson as an example.

ATXtexanfan
08-29-2010, 02:36 PM
give me a pick against peyton and i'll agree

ubecool454
08-29-2010, 02:43 PM
give me a pick against peyton and i'll agree

Come on....he doesn't have to have a pic against Peyton to prove himself...all he has to do is not get beat over and over again. This kid has it all...he can be our Revis.

Texecutioner
08-29-2010, 02:44 PM
To early to say right now, but beating out what Dunta was last season shouldn't be all that hard to do in a year or so. You guys have to remember how good Dunta was in his rookie year when he first got here. Antonio Cromartie had a great year in his first or 2nd season as well only to disappoint pretty bad as well.

I think Jackson's going to be a pretty good CB though. Not to worried about that.

TheIronDuke
08-29-2010, 02:46 PM
Yeah, it's nice having a corner who can actually get a pick every once in a while.

ubecool454
08-29-2010, 02:47 PM
To early to say right now, but beating out what Dunta was last season shouldn't be all that hard to do in a year or so. You guys have to remember how good Dunta was in his rookie year when he first got here. Antonio Cromartie had a great year in his first or 2nd season as well only to disappoint pretty bad as well.

I think Jackson's going to be a pretty good CB though. Not to worried about that.

Cromatie went from picking off passes to picking up chicks....to many baby mama's got him gone from SD. I don't see how we can go wrong with the best DB, on the crimson tide and the best in the SEC , plus the guy is a champion. If Demeco says he is a stud DB I'm inclined to believe him....just sayin

thunderkyss
08-29-2010, 02:49 PM
Yeah, it's nice having a corner who can actually get a pick every once in a while.

I remember saying this about Jaques Reeves. I think he is still our only CB to get a pick in the regular season, and we've buried him on the depth chart.

It's too early to be tossing accolades.

ubecool454
08-29-2010, 02:49 PM
Yeah, it's nice having a corner who can actually get a pick every once in a while.

Kareem was in the right place at the right time....he can thank Benard Pollard for that gift.

PapaL
08-29-2010, 02:55 PM
I remember saying this about Jaques Reeves. I think he is still our only CB to get a pick in the regular season, and we've buried him on the depth chart.

It's too early to be tossing accolades.

I was wondering about him yesterday...thought I saw him on the sideline.

Carr Bombed
08-29-2010, 03:01 PM
This isn't just about Kareem Jackson being better than Dunta Robinsion. This is about EVERY HIGH ROUND ROOKIE BEING BETTER THAN DUNTA ROBINSON.

Which is what I was trying to explain to some people when they would always bring up the loss of Dunta (and I also got tired of hearing about it on TV). Dunta Robinson played like a backup last season and he's a shell of his formal self.....a player that is very easy to replace. I still can't believe the Falcons game him that much money

TheIronDuke
08-29-2010, 03:05 PM
Kareem was in the right place at the right time....he can thank Benard Pollard for that gift.

Yeah, but the fact is he actually caught it unlike Dumbta who let a VY pass hit him right in the hands and couldn't catch it somehow.

Texecutioner
08-29-2010, 03:14 PM
Cromatie went from picking off passes to picking up chicks....to many baby mama's got him gone from SD. I don't see how we can go wrong with the best DB, on the crimson tide and the best in the SEC , plus the guy is a champion. If Demeco says he is a stud DB I'm inclined to believe him....just sayin

Oh no question. I "think" that he's most likely going to be a great CB for a long time. Being from the Tide and being well coached by Saban is a very strong plus and all the things we've heard approaching the season has been very good to hear. I'm just not going to proclaim him better than this guy or that guy when he hasn't even played a down yet, that's all. His resume looks great on paper and the reports are all positive. I'm just ready to see him reach his full potential first, that's all.

ubecool454
08-29-2010, 03:16 PM
Yeah, but the fact is he actually caught it unlike Dumbta who let a VY pass hit him right in the hands and couldn't catch it somehow.

Dumbta? I have to stick up for Robinson because I remember back when we went 2-14 he was the only player on the team that would come over and apologize and ask us to hang in there with them. We would watch the other Texans player leave the field laughing like they had won and I guess talking about payday but Robinson made a effort to come and give some kid his gloves and still sign and few autographs.

Wolf
08-29-2010, 03:21 PM
MIAMI – Cornerback Dunta Robinson, the Falcons prized offseason acquisition, was a late scratch from the lineup against the Miami Dolphins on Friday.

Robinson, who’s been nursing what has been termed a minor hamstring injury, was expected to play in the all-important third exhibition game.

“We made a decision and as I said all week long — really over the last eight or nine days — all the players that are injured are going to be game time decisions,” Falcons coach Mike Smith said. “We thought it was just best to hold Dunta out. Anybody that has been to our practices knows that he has been a full participant in all of our practices. We just felt like it was in the best interest of our football team for the regular season to hold him out.”

Christopher Owens took Robinson’s spot in the starting lineup opposite of Brent Grimes.

Robinson was signed to a six-year, $57.5 million contract as a free agent. He hurt his hamstring trying to run down an overthrown pass early in training camp.



http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-blog/2010/08/27/key-matchup-dunta-robinson-vs-brandon-marshall/

Rey
08-29-2010, 03:23 PM
Kareem was in the right place at the right time....he can thank Benard Pollard for that gift.

I'm not saying that you're doing this, but don't discredit int's from tipped balls...

A lot of players who consistently get int's get them from tipped passes. Being in the right place at the right time also translates to being in good position. Had Pollard not tipped the ball, KJ was in great position to make a play on the ball and receiver.

Wolf
08-29-2010, 03:25 PM
I want to see what they do against manning and company

Malloy
08-29-2010, 03:26 PM
I'm not saying that you're doing this, but don't discredit int's from tipped balls...

A lot of players who consistently get int's get them from tipped passes. Being in the right place at the right time also translates to being in good position. Had Pollard not tipped the ball, KJ was in great position to make make a play on the ball and receiver.

True, I thought about that too, had the reciever caught the ball he would have been popped REALLY hard from Jackson.

Texecutioner
08-29-2010, 03:26 PM
Dumbta? I have to stick up for Robinson because I remember back when we went 2-14 he was the only player on the team that would come over and apologize and ask us to hang in there with them. We would watch the other Texans player leave the field laughing like they had won and I guess talking about payday but Robinson made a effort to come and give some kid his gloves and still sign and few autographs.

Yeah, that's a cool story. I do remember Dunta giving his all and playing his heart out when our team was stinking it up. A lot of the fame and money got to his head after while unfortunately though and he started to act like every other spoiled rotten athlete we see in today's NFL and other sports. I didn't like what he became on or off the field and I'm glad he's gone now.

The Pencil Neck
08-29-2010, 03:31 PM
I think the thing that happened with Dunta was that the losing got to him. He started to be a very negative guy with the "Oh, great, here we go again" with eye roll whenever there was a bad play.

Bad plays happen. Good teams don't let a bad play snowball into a series of bad plays and then into a series of bad games. Dunta had seen it happen so many times that he kinda got programmed to expect it and couldn't keep his positive attitude that he'd had earlier in his career.

At least, that's what I think happened.

ubecool454
08-29-2010, 03:36 PM
I'm not saying that you're doing this, but don't discredit int's from tipped balls...

A lot of players who consistently get int's get them from tipped passes. Being in the right place at the right time also translates to being in good position. Had Pollard not tipped the ball, KJ was in great position to make make a play on the ball and receiver.

I agree with the positioning thing but I don't think he was in any position to make a play on the ball but he could have made a play on the receiver if the receiver hadn't gone out of bounds.

Rey
08-29-2010, 03:55 PM
I agree with the positioning thing but I don't think he was in any position to make a play on the ball but he could have made a play on the receiver if the receiver hadn't gone out of bounds.

When I say make a play on the ball I'm talking about after the receiver had caught it and tried to make his initial move. KJ was in good position to knock the ball out with a solid hit, or knock it out with his hand during a tackle.

He was in good position to either stop the reciever from gaining any YAC, or stop the receiver from having a clean catch.

I don't mean that he would have been able to jump the route and pick it off.

Rey
08-29-2010, 03:56 PM
I think the thing that happened with Dunta was that the losing got to him. He started to be a very negative guy with the "Oh, great, here we go again" with eye roll whenever there was a bad play.

Bad plays happen. Good teams don't let a bad play snowball into a series of bad plays and then into a series of bad games. Dunta had seen it happen so many times that he kinda got programmed to expect it and couldn't keep his positive attitude that he'd had earlier in his career.

At least, that's what I think happened.

This.

ubecool454
08-29-2010, 04:08 PM
When I say make a play on the ball I'm talking about after the receiver had caught it and tried to make his initial move. KJ was in good position to knock the ball out with a solid hit, or knock it out with his hand during a tackle.

He was in good position to either stop the reciever from gaining any YAC, or stop the receiver from having a clean catch.

I don't mean that he would have been able to jump the route and pick it off.

Yeah I got ya Ray...but I'll take the int anyway it comes.

Rey
08-29-2010, 04:46 PM
Yeah I got ya Ray...but I'll take the int anyway it comes.

right there wit ya bro.

False Start
08-29-2010, 04:48 PM
I need to see him play in some real games, but he has looked alright so far.

El Tejano
08-29-2010, 05:05 PM
Miles Austin's name was hardly even called. Kareem's name was called twice and one of those was because he was running back an INT. My Dallas Cowboy friends were getting upset that Romo wasn't picking on the rookie. There had to be a reason for that.

Good game. I'll wait to call him an all pro.

Maddict5
08-29-2010, 05:08 PM
I remember saying this about Jaques Reeves. I think he is still our only CB to get a pick in the regular season, and we've buried him on the depth chart.

It's too early to be tossing accolades.

mccain got 1 on peyton last yr too

LikeMike
08-29-2010, 06:15 PM
KJ looks really promising... he did look bad twice against Roy Williams (one time he slipped, the other time he was a little late on a slant), but other than that he was really solid.

But wait until a couple of games in the season beforee you compare him to Dunta

False Start
08-29-2010, 06:26 PM
KJ looks really promising... he did look bad twice against Roy Williams (one time he slipped, the other time he was a little late on a slant), but other than that he was really solid.

But wait until a couple of games in the season beforee you compare him to Dunta

According to Phil Simms, Roy was making KJ look like Faggins. :rolleyes:

ChampionTexan
08-29-2010, 06:27 PM
I'm not saying that you're doing this, but don't discredit int's from tipped balls...



Yep - if it were all luck, there'd be no point in wasting time on tip drills during practice.

ubecool454
08-29-2010, 06:28 PM
According to Phil Simms, Roy was making KJ look like Faggins. :rolleyes:

Phil Simms sounded very biased to me last night after I watched the game on TV. He is probably pissed that the Texans didn't pick up his lazy son when he got run out of Tampa Bay.

ubecool454
08-29-2010, 06:32 PM
Miles Austin's name was hardly even called. Kareem's name was called twice and one of those was because he was running back an INT. My Dallas Cowboy friends were getting upset that Romo wasn't picking on the rookie. There had to be a reason for that.

Good game. I'll wait to call him an all pro.

I was at the game and thats the only real matchup I was watching. This guy, not matter who he is playing is usually right there in the WRs grill...he is extremely hard to shake and the first time Roy Williams beat him he had to push off to do it and the second time he KJ slipped a little but overall...this guy has "it".

hot pickle
08-29-2010, 06:35 PM
just watched the highlights of kareems pick... and if you watch the sidelines AJ is running down the field with him with a huge smile on his face! .... but kudos to pollard on the pick

Texas T
08-29-2010, 06:46 PM
Kareem > Dunta

Especially if he doesn't celebrate like he won the superbowl after a tackle...and allow the forehead to burn him the next play.

Hervoyel
08-29-2010, 06:58 PM
I'm not saying that you're doing this, but don't discredit int's from tipped balls...

A lot of players who consistently get int's get them from tipped passes. Being in the right place at the right time also translates to being in good position. Had Pollard not tipped the ball, KJ was in great position to make a play on the ball and receiver.

A lot of success at picking those deflected or tipped passes comes from having the reflexes to recognize that the ball has just unexpectedly appeared in front of you and being able to do something about it. For every player who has a tipped ball come right to him and holds on to it I see a few who are consistently dropping that same kind of "gift". Most of our corners can haul a pick in if it's thrown to them or if the QB doesn't see them and telegraphs his throw.

I was happy to see him snap that tipped ball up like he did. Hopefully that was a sign of things to come. Some guys have a knack for being around the ball and adjusting quickly. Maybe he's got that. Dunta didn't. He had excellent skills and hit like a train but he wasn't a ball hawk.

thunderkyss
08-29-2010, 07:01 PM
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/Foster-Texan-for-Touchdown.jpg

Love it.

GP
08-29-2010, 07:17 PM
A little something I made during last training camp when someone was sitting out because he was butt-hurt over being franchise tagged. I didn't make the shoe part. Someone else did. I added the penalty flags, for total visual effect.


http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/dunta_shoes_flag.jpg

MFG16
08-29-2010, 08:01 PM
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-blog/2010/08/27/key-matchup-dunta-robinson-vs-brandon-marshall/

Does anybody know if its the same hamstring he hurt while in houston? i remember watching the post game that night and when he was getting interviewd he said something like "the hamstrings completly off the bone." A lot of people might hate how he carries himself on and/or off the field but i just hope this doesn't turn into a "life changing" thing for him. (kinda like earl and his back) i'd hate to see dunta as an old man who cant walk because of something that happened playing a game.

Mr teX
08-29-2010, 08:30 PM
too early to tell for jackson, but all indications are good..lets see what he does in the regular season.

ATXtexanfan
08-29-2010, 08:32 PM
Come on....he doesn't have to have a pic against Peyton to prove himself...all he has to do is not get beat over and over again. This kid has it all...he can be our Revis.

just a crackback at dunta who was franchised and didn't even get a pick. i'm gonna wait on the revis comparisons. dude has the tools

Carr Bombed
08-29-2010, 09:16 PM
But wait until a couple of games in the season beforee you compare him to Dunta

Actually it would be in the Texans' best interest if he wasn't compared to Dunta.....atleast not Dunta post injury.

Dunta wasn't a world beater here and it's not going to be hard at all to replace him, very overrated. The guy was only a true #1 corner here for a couple of seasons....and then played like a #2 corner his other seasons. Atlanta OVERPAID.

gary
08-29-2010, 09:26 PM
There are not enough players like AJ, Cushing, Ryans, and some others to go around many sports figures are paid and that's it. Then they just never have the same drive and love for the gamel like they once did. Not all players act like that but many do and they are the ones who anger me JMO. And I'll reserve my opinion of Jackson for now but I like his game so far.

Norg
08-30-2010, 12:11 AM
well it wont be hard Dunta was average at best

imatexan
08-30-2010, 12:59 AM
well it wont be hard Dunta was average at best

This is wrong, even though Texans fans hate to remember it.

He was one of the better CB's in the league before his injury, much better than average!


How can someone possibly agree with this thread and claim that the pre-season does not really count or matter?

This statement is just silly, he has a lot to do to be close to being compared to Dunta...I hope he will be better than Dunta but at least let him play half of an NFL season before you make these claims.

infantrycak
08-30-2010, 01:32 AM
This is wrong, even though Texans fans hate to remember it.

He was one of the better CB's in the league before his injury, much better than average!

I'll give him borderline pro bowl prior to injury but in the end he never lived up to Aaron Glenn even. Glenn was a much better DB.

Brisco_County
08-30-2010, 02:34 AM
Dunta was a valuable piece of this team when he was motivated, but unfortunately, his motivation was relative to outside factors.

scourge
08-30-2010, 10:15 AM
To early to say right now, but beating out what Dunta was last season shouldn't be all that hard to do in a year or so. You guys have to remember how good Dunta was in his rookie year when he first got here. Antonio Cromartie had a great year in his first or 2nd season as well only to disappoint pretty bad as well.

I think Jackson's going to be a pretty good CB though. Not to worried about that.

To add to what Infantry just mentioned, his rookie season he played opposite Aaron Glenn. QB's avoided AG more often once a rookie was on the other side. That was the year we moved Coleman to FS. Coleman had 7 picks the year before, so of course once he was moved to safety they would attack that side more, much like Bennett did to a lesser extent. Dunta didn't have hands, nor do I think was he the super awesome tackler most thought he was. It seemed to me that he just tried threw his body into it to make the bit hit.

NitroGSXR
08-30-2010, 11:38 AM
Dumbta? I have to stick up for Robinson because I remember back when we went 2-14 he was the only player on the team that would come over and apologize and ask us to hang in there with them. We would watch the other Texans player leave the field laughing like they had won and I guess talking about payday but Robinson made a effort to come and give some kid his gloves and still sign and few autographs.
We have a story similar to that. Dunta Robinson has a place in our hearts. We love him! He's a classy dude who gives a rats ass about the fans.

Rock on, Dunta!!

Norg
08-30-2010, 02:54 PM
i stand by what i said even Pre injury its not like he was all world ....

anyway i just realized which one of our CB is going agansit the #1 ?????

GQ will be on reggie wayne ??????????????? all day

Rey
08-30-2010, 04:13 PM
i stand by what i said even Pre injury its not like he was all world ....

anyway i just realized which one of our CB is going agansit the #1 ?????

GQ will be on reggie wayne ??????????????? all day

I don't think they change sides. So they may both be getting a piece of Wayne.

drs23
08-30-2010, 04:16 PM
i stand by what i said even Pre injury its not like he was all world ....

anyway i just realized which one of our CB is going agansit the #1 ?????

GQ will be on reggie wayne ??????????????? all day

GK said at one time GQ and KJ would play whomever lines up against them. When did KJ get the #1 receiver? Did I miss something?

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2010, 04:19 PM
I don't think they change sides. So they may both be getting a piece of Wayne.

I think that's the old defense.

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2010, 04:21 PM
GK said at one time GQ and KJ would play whomever lines up against them. When did KJ get the #1 receiver? Did I miss something?

In the old days, our CBs played a side. They didn't get put on a particular receiver. But last year, that changed and Dunta was usually put on the #1.

I thought we were still playing like we did last year with GQ as our #1. But I'm not positive about that.

Maddict5
08-30-2010, 04:32 PM
In the old days, our CBs played a side. They didn't get put on a particular receiver. But last year, that changed and Dunta was usually put on the #1.

I thought we were still playing like we did last year with GQ as our #1. But I'm not positive about that.

are we still not playing 'sides of a field' defence? GQ usually seems to be on the defensive right hand side before dropping into the slot on 3 wr sets

GP
08-30-2010, 04:51 PM
We have to remember that KJ is likely going through a period of time where he has everything flying at him. First round pick, first time to practice against NFL speed and talent, first time to have lots of spare cash, first time to play in an actual NFL game even though it's "just preseason," and on and on...

Once he gets all those "first times" out of his system--by the way, how awesome to get your first pick in only your second game and against Romo?--he will settle in and play more to he level he is.

I have no proof, but I think he will handle it well. Once he gets settled in, I expect to see his game elevated more.

disaacks3
08-30-2010, 04:53 PM
For right now KAreem is definitely > than Dunta...

Hear what the Falcon FANS think...

Dunta Robinson Eyeing Return Against Dolphins

On the landscape of pre-season Falcons injury news about Dunta Robinson, this is a big one.

If Dunta does indeed return, he'll probably play some very limited snaps against the Dolphins. Frankly, though, I'd be excited just to see our pricey off-season acquisition take the field. That'd be nice.

Really, that's been one of the subplots of the pre-season that has made me most anxious. We know Dunta's going to be healthy for the season, and I certainly don't want to rush him. At the same time, he was signed to lend stability and a wise ol' veteran presence to the cornerbacking corps, and we've not gotten to see him in action yet.

Dunta was a hard-hitting CB, (good) but never spectacular in coverage and had a very strong "field presence"...much like Pollard.

I'll miss him, but he's nowhere near as good as his current contract or his press clippings.

Playoffs
08-30-2010, 04:56 PM
KJ looks a tad slower than I'd hoped ...

which means he's gonna need to get smarter, sooner.

Rey
08-30-2010, 05:30 PM
In the old days, our CBs played a side. They didn't get put on a particular receiver. But last year, that changed and Dunta was usually put on the #1.

I thought we were still playing like we did last year with GQ as our #1. But I'm not positive about that.

I dunno...

Seems as if we are still playing Left corner right corner...

Even when we go Nickel McCain usually takes Quinns spot outside and Kareem is normally over on the right (right to the defense).

infantrycak
08-30-2010, 05:36 PM
I dunno...

Seems as if we are still playing Left corner right corner...

Even when we go Nickel McCain usually takes Quinns spot outside and Kareem is normally over on the right (right to the defense).

As opposed to sides being a hard and fast rule as it was before, it is now a preference. If there isn't a clear #1 WR then they swap less. If they face a Fitzgerald or Moss then you see them assign the CB's (at least last year which may be up in the air with the small sample size we have with two inexperienced starting CB's). Bush is certainly open to the idea of assigning CB's to WR's as opposed to prior DC's.

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2010, 05:59 PM
I dunno...

Seems as if we are still playing Left corner right corner...

Even when we go Nickel McCain usually takes Quinns spot outside and Kareem is normally over on the right (right to the defense).

Kareem was on the right when he got the interception. But if you look at the last few plays before the end of the half, he was on the left. It seems like he was generally going with Roy Williams.

DexmanC
08-30-2010, 06:04 PM
One thing about Bush I can say, is that he does play matchups that
work. If a guy gets burned too consistently, Frank doesn't hesitate
to get someone else on him. That Carolina game a couple years ago
showed us all we needed to know about Richard Smith. Petey got
ate up for two touchdowns by Steve Smith, although there was already
tape on him getting burned in similar fashion against Lee Evans a year
earlier.

It's good to see our corners jamming at the line on 3rd down. That
should give the blitzes time to get there.

JB
08-30-2010, 06:10 PM
It's good to see our corners jamming at the line on 3rd down. That
should give the blitzes time to get there.

That is huge for me. I got so tired of seeing our corners giving a 10 yd cushion on 3 & 6!

thunderkyss
08-30-2010, 06:54 PM
Kareem was on the right when he got the interception. But if you look at the last few plays before the end of the half, he was on the left. It seems like he was generally going with Roy Williams.

He was on the left, when he slipped, and missed the tackle on Roy Williams.

ubecool454
08-30-2010, 09:21 PM
KJ looks a tad slower than I'd hoped ...

which means he's gonna need to get smarter, sooner.

You think he looks slow because Felix Jones ran him down? Jones is fast and did have the angle on him.

thunderkyss
08-30-2010, 09:49 PM
You think he looks slow because Felix Jones ran him down? Jones is fast and did have the angle on him.

You know, I was fine with FJones running him down, until he said he had run out of gas.

Hopefully he's just getting used to this league, and he'll be working no his conditioning in the next couple of weeks.


:kitten:

JB
08-30-2010, 09:52 PM
You know, I was fine with FJones running him down, until he said he had run out of gas.

Hopefully he's just getting used to this league, and he'll be working no his conditioning in the next couple of weeks.

Hope he doesn't over train...

:kitten:

:heh: Please, can you delete the bolded?

Texanmike02
08-30-2010, 10:22 PM
I think the thing that happened with Dunta was that the losing got to him. He started to be a very negative guy with the "Oh, great, here we go again" with eye roll whenever there was a bad play.

Bad plays happen. Good teams don't let a bad play snowball into a series of bad plays and then into a series of bad games. Dunta had seen it happen so many times that he kinda got programmed to expect it and couldn't keep his positive attitude that he'd had earlier in his career.

At least, that's what I think happened.

Look. I wasn't excessively hard on Daunta and I wasn't his biggest fan but I will say that I understand the "pay me rick" attitude. Was he an ***** for writing it on his shoes, absolutely. Did he distract the team and was it time to go, sure. All of that said, he was one of the hardest hitting corners in the league, he didn't give up on plays (didn't someone write that he pulled a hammy running after an overthrown ball in camp?)... He came here and worked his ass off for quite some time. Then right as it began to get a little fun again, he tore a leg up. He worked his butt off to get back and what for? 8-8? Yeah he acted like a spoiled brat at times, but when it was the worst... when this organization was a joke... as one of the few "stars" on the team... and the only guy with name recognition other than AJ and DC... he was out there putting in work. He as one of the few that could have come in and put his time in and left and I am glad that it looked like he cared, because there were a lot on the team that looked like they were here for the paycheck. For that Daunta, we thank you.

Mike

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2010, 10:36 PM
Look. I wasn't excessively hard on Daunta and I wasn't his biggest fan but I will say that I understand the "pay me rick" attitude. Was he an ***** for writing it on his shoes, absolutely. Did he distract the team and was it time to go, sure. All of that said, he was one of the hardest hitting corners in the league, he didn't give up on plays (didn't someone write that he pulled a hammy running after an overthrown ball in camp?)... He came here and worked his ass off for quite some time. Then right as it began to get a little fun again, he tore a leg up. He worked his butt off to get back and what for? 8-8? Yeah he acted like a spoiled brat at times, but when it was the worst... when this organization was a joke... as one of the few "stars" on the team... and the only guy with name recognition other than AJ and DC... he was out there putting in work. He as one of the few that could have come in and put his time in and left and I am glad that it looked like he cared, because there were a lot on the team that looked like they were here for the paycheck. For that Daunta, we thank you.

Mike

I've never been anti-Dunta and I wasn't saying anything about his work ethic. I don't care too much about guys that want to get paid (although I think they need to be reasonable about what they're really worth.) The guy always worked hard. He was a hard hitter. I don't think he's one of the better cover guys in the league and I don't think even at his best that he was one of the 4-5 best corners in the league. But he was good.

But I do think that you can have a bad attitude even though you're working hard. I think that Dunta might really benefit from new surroundings but I don't think he's going to be the Nnamdi/Revis that Atlanta is hoping for.

The jury is still out on Kareem. I'm hoping that he fits our scheme and ends up being a better corner for us than Dunta was.

But with all that said, I really appreciate everything Dunta did for this team. He was a vocal leader when we had none and he worked hard through some really bad seasons and bad teams.

Carr Bombed
08-30-2010, 10:51 PM
This is wrong, even though Texans fans hate to remember it.

He was one of the better CB's in the league before his injury, much better than average!


How can someone possibly agree with this thread and claim that the pre-season does not really count or matter?

This statement is just silly, he has a lot to do to be close to being compared to Dunta...I hope he will be better than Dunta but at least let him play half of an NFL season before you make these claims.

That's the point.....

After his injury a fourth round rookie was better than him.

TimeKiller
08-31-2010, 08:33 AM
I think they are playing sides, not receivers. Seemed like a couple times the Cowboys lined up all the WR to one side and instead of Quin running over to cover Pollard just stepped in and Quin held an end of the DL. I think that's probably not a good idea but I'm no DC. Seems like the better idea would be to have Quin either run across and cover or if Pollard moves in have Quin drop back with Wilson and give himself a safety look.

The Pencil Neck
08-31-2010, 09:25 AM
I think they are playing sides, not receivers. Seemed like a couple times the Cowboys lined up all the WR to one side and instead of Quin running over to cover Pollard just stepped in and Quin held an end of the DL. I think that's probably not a good idea but I'm no DC. Seems like the better idea would be to have Quin either run across and cover or if Pollard moves in have Quin drop back with Wilson and give himself a safety look.

I don't think they do the same thing every time. In different defenses, the responsibilities change. Quinn might be up close in run support but in a passing situation he drops into a zone. When I see a guy run across the formation and no one chase him, my initial reaction is that it's a some form of zone defense to begin with.

thunderkyss
08-31-2010, 11:39 AM
Look. I wasn't excessively hard on Daunta and I wasn't his biggest fan ...
Mike

The only thing I had against Dunta, was that it seemed we weren't going to get a better corner on this team with him here. Like he somehow set some imaginary cap on CB Talent.

Then I find out it wasn't him setting the cap.

Rey
08-31-2010, 11:44 AM
The only thing I had against dunta was how he brought the business side of things onto the field....holding out, pay me rick

Really though, I think that injury he had scared the shyt out of him and that is why he acted the way he did.

Blake
09-01-2010, 10:42 AM
I love it. Two pre-season games and he is king around here.

If he has a good game against Peyton what will yall do? Make a statue of him out of gold? Demand he get a deal equal to Revis?

Lets let him prove himself before we crown his ass.

TimeKiller
09-01-2010, 11:10 AM
I love it. Two pre-season games and he is king around here.

If he has a good game against Peyton what will yall do? Make a statue of him out of gold? Demand he get a deal equal to Revis?

Lets let him prove himself before we crown his ass.

uh...how 'bout....BE HAPPY ABOUT IT?!?

geez....

Blake
09-01-2010, 02:54 PM
uh...how 'bout....BE HAPPY ABOUT IT?!?

geez....

I will be happy when he proves himself. Do we really need threads about how he is WORLDS better than Dunta at this point?

TimeKiller
09-01-2010, 03:42 PM
I don't think they do the same thing every time. In different defenses, the responsibilities change. Quinn might be up close in run support but in a passing situation he drops into a zone. When I see a guy run across the formation and no one chase him, my initial reaction is that it's a some form of zone defense to begin with.

You're probably right about that but I was really trying to make the point that they play sides instead of a particular man.

I will be happy when he proves himself. Do we really need threads about how he is WORLDS better than Dunta at this point?

He has proven himself....to be a good CB so far this preseason. Anybody going much farther than that is just as silly as you trying to knock him down a peg for no reason.

As far as KJ v. Dunta...it's going to happen. Is it a little early to be crowning a champion but there are a few easy things to touch on...

Who can catch a pick that falls into their lap? KJ-can. Dunta-can't.
Who is a whiny *****? KJ-isn't. Dunta-is.
Who is likely to have a better career from this point forward? That's easy. KJ.

Don't like him if you don't want to.

DexmanC
09-01-2010, 04:08 PM
"Es solamente la pretemporada."

76Texan
09-02-2010, 04:21 AM
In the old days, our CBs played a side. They didn't get put on a particular receiver. But last year, that changed and Dunta was usually put on the #1.

I thought we were still playing like we did last year with GQ as our #1. But I'm not positive about that.

True, last year Dunta usually covered the #1 receiver.
He ended up on the right side a majority of the time mainly due to the fact that some teams lined up their receivers thataway.
The Colts for example, played their #1 receiver (Wayne) strictly on their left side.

This year, against NO, KJ played the right side in the first quarter and the left side in the second quarter (covering Colston mostly.)
Basically, the Saints didn't go anywhere near KJ in the second quarter.

The Pencil Neck
09-02-2010, 10:18 AM
True, last year Dunta usually covered the #1 receiver.
He ended up on the right side a majority of the time mainly due to the fact that some teams lined up their receivers thataway.
The Colts for example, played their #1 receiver (Wayne) strictly on their left side.

This year, against NO, KJ played the right side in the first quarter and the left side in the second quarter (covering Colston mostly.)
Basically, the Saints didn't go anywhere near KJ in the second quarter.

I haven't really gone back and confirmed this but from what I recall seeing, it looks like KJ was basically playing the left side in the first half against Dallas and then the right side in the second half. But there were times when both GQ and KJ were on the same side in obvious man to man.

Blake
09-02-2010, 11:19 AM
He has proven himself....to be a good CB so far this preseason. Anybody going much farther than that is just as silly as you trying to knock him down a peg for no reason.

The OP doesnt say Jackson is a "good CB so far this pre-season." He says "Jackson is worlds better than Dunta Robinson last year." Now if you and the OP want to compare Jacksons 2 pre-season starts to Robinson and his full 16 game regular season then thats what you are going to do. I prefer to wait until he has been tested in multiple regular season games.

Knock him down a peg? I said lets wait to crown him king. Not that he is horrible. How is that knocking him down a peg for no reason?

As far as KJ v. Dunta...it's going to happen. Is it a little early to be crowning a champion but there are a few easy things to touch on...

Who can catch a pick that falls into their lap? KJ-can. Dunta-can't.
Who is a whiny *****? KJ-isn't. Dunta-is.
Who is likely to have a better career from this point forward? That's easy. KJ.

I dont mind compairing their skillset, attitude, or career outlook from here on. But not which one is better because one is unproven.

Don't like him if you don't want to.

I do like him. I just dont put him on a pedestal like some around here. If anyone is showing their bias, its yourself and the OP against Robinson.

Blake
09-20-2010, 04:17 PM
Anyone still want to put KJ on a pedestal around here? No? Oh was that just a preseason thing?

thunderkyss
09-21-2010, 07:11 PM
Anyone still want to put KJ on a pedestal around here? No? Oh was that just a preseason thing?

The big play to Galloway was not on KJ. Wilson was his help over the top, but he bit on the reverse, running past Pollard trying to get to the play side.

KJ thought he had help, and it wasn't there.

He also played very well, when he was allowed to press.

Rey
09-21-2010, 07:13 PM
The big play to Galloway was not on KJ. Wilson was his help over the top, but he bit on the reverse, running past Pollard trying to get to the play side.

KJ thought he had help, and it wasn't there.

He also played very well, when he was allowed to press.

Yep...And that's part of the reason why I would like to see Nolan get a few snaps a game...

Should make both players step their game up...

NitroGSXR
09-21-2010, 08:11 PM
I have not enjoyed seeing KJ get constantly molested these two past games. He has shown promise but this kid really could use some seasoning. This kid is great at the line of scrimmage. Very physical but this kid is getting badly burnt.

I'm definitely concerned with all the passing yardage we're giving up. We need a fix and i don't think upgrading Wilson alone is the answer.

thunderkyss
09-21-2010, 08:18 PM
I have not enjoyed seeing KJ get constantly molested these two past games. He has shown promise but this kid really could use some seasoning. This kid is great at the line of scrimmage. Very physical but this kid is getting badly burnt.

I'm definitely concerned with all the passing yardage we're giving up. We need a fix and i don't think upgrading Wilson alone is the answer.

You are either totally ignoring everything we've been saying, or straight up don't trust what we've been saying.

Kareem has been solid. What you see on TV during the game is only half the story. Watch Playbook, where you get to see real game film. Watch him from the stands at Reliant. He's been solid.

The redskins game, after the half, we went mostly nickel with glover inside. That alone had a huge impact on our pass defense. When we get Cushing back, the only LB we have that understands coverage & zone, our pass defense will be fixed.


I gaurantee!

thunderkyss
09-21-2010, 08:21 PM
We had Quin on fullbacks & Tightends the whole second half. That's Cushes job. Well be able to leave quin outside. Our corners are not the problem on defense. I know they are young, but they're pretty damn good.

NitroGSXR
09-21-2010, 08:49 PM
You are either totally ignoring everything we've been saying, or straight up don't trust what we've been saying.

Kareem has been solid. What you see on TV during the game is only half the story. Watch Playbook, where you get to see real game film. Watch him from the stands at Reliant. He's been solid.

The redskins game, after the half, we went mostly nickel with glover inside. That alone had a huge impact on our pass defense. When we get Cushing back, the only LB we have that understands coverage & zone, our pass defense will be fixed.


I gaurantee!
Not at all. Making my own observations after seeing him on my tv, from the stands, both playbook shows, short cuts and am currently watching/taping replay. Ugh on the condescending (sp?) post.

Don't get me wrong. He's shown promise. I loved how he batted the ball away from Cooley at the LOS. I loved how he made that TD saving tackle. Kid has some jets. he blew a TD last week along with a gazillion yards. There is a reason why Manning and McNabb kept throwing to him all day. All I'm saying is that he's a rookie and it shows to me. I have faith in KJ. He'll be a fine pro. Blaming KJ's or the secondary's shortcomings on Wilson is unfair AT THIS TIME. Plenty of blame to go around.

gtexan02
09-21-2010, 09:14 PM
You are either totally ignoring everything we've been saying, or straight up don't trust what we've been saying.

Kareem has been solid. What you see on TV during the game is only half the story. Watch Playbook, where you get to see real game film. Watch him from the stands at Reliant. He's been solid.

The redskins game, after the half, we went mostly nickel with glover inside. That alone had a huge impact on our pass defense. When we get Cushing back, the only LB we have that understands coverage & zone, our pass defense will be fixed.


I gaurantee!

I watched him from the stands this past Sunday. he got beat, badly, more than once.

Brisco_County
09-21-2010, 09:58 PM
I watched him from the stands this past Sunday. he got beat, badly, more than once.

I don't think that's what he's disputing.

digitalswim
09-22-2010, 12:28 AM
He has been burned a bit like any rookie corner but several times he was let down by our safeties who were out of position (ie that TD McNoob threw up the middle of the field).

It's kind of like how every interception is blamed on the QB even though his receiver ran the wrong route. People just automatically assume it was the QB's fault. :slapfight:

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 12:35 AM
He has been burned a bit like any rookie corner but several times he was let down by our safeties who were out of position (ie that TD McNoob threw up the middle of the field).

It's kind of like how every interception is blamed on the QB even though his receiver ran the wrong route. People just automatically assume it was the QB's fault. :slapfight:

^^^ This.

Kareem has been burned a few times but he's also made some very good plays. I've still got very high hopes for this guy.

But fixing our pass defense isn't about fixing Kareem, it's about getting everybody on the right page. We've had our safeties busting coverage and we've had some bad plays by our LBs in coverage. Both Adibi and Diles had some pretty big busts in coverage against the Redskins.

beerlover
09-22-2010, 12:54 AM
^^^ This.

Kareem has been burned a few times but he's also made some very good plays. I've still got very high hopes for this guy.

But fixing our pass defense isn't about fixing Kareem, it's about getting everybody on the right page. We've had our safeties busting coverage and we've had some bad plays by our LBs in coverage. Both Adibi and Diles had some pretty big busts in coverage against the Redskins.

& you know other teams see this so will seek to take advantage of mis-matches. Dallas has a lot of weapons to spread this secondary out, if the front four can't pressure Romo its up to the LB's & Safeties to cover the intermediate stuff with corners over the top. I'll almost bet we see more nickle packages like week one, Adibi is a liability in coverage.

silvrhand
09-22-2010, 01:13 AM
^^^ This.

Kareem has been burned a few times but he's also made some very good plays. I've still got very high hopes for this guy.

But fixing our pass defense isn't about fixing Kareem, it's about getting everybody on the right page. We've had our safeties busting coverage and we've had some bad plays by our LBs in coverage. Both Adibi and Diles had some pretty big busts in coverage against the Redskins.

The front 7 again need to get better at providing consistent pressure on the opposing QB, not just Mario deciding that he needs to do something and getting a sack.

Consistent pressure, McNabb hardly got touched the entire first half, and if you give him time he'll light you up.

TimeKiller
09-22-2010, 07:34 AM
Anyone still want to put KJ on a pedestal around here? No? Oh was that just a preseason thing?

Saying he's better than Robinson is a pedestal? Like....a 2 foot high pedestal?

He's looked like a rookie facing the greatest QB of this generation and a guy who by most accounts is a damn good QB. Yeah, he's getting chewed up a bit but he didn't give up 800 yards all by himself. At the least you can see his head is in the game which is more than you can say for 'Pay Me Rick'. Can't say I've been impressed with his play but neither am I pissed.

He's still better than Robinson...hahaha....

Man, speaking of Wilson...can anyone tell me why Wilson is the starter at FS?

Second Honeymoon
09-22-2010, 08:41 AM
Dunta is better than Jackson at this point in time, but one guy is making top dollar and one guy is a rookie.

Myself, I wish the Texans would have franchised him again. It's only money and it was a salary cap free year. Where did they spend the money they saved on Dunta? At least go out and get Schoebel now that Barwin is done. That would be a decent way to spend the money. I know I may be in the minority on that, but aside from the whole PayMeRick thing, Dunta had been a good player for us. I am not going to hate on him just because he was unprofessional and left our team to make more money. Now with us starting 2-0, you can't argue that Dunta would have helped us because there is nowhere else to go but down.

Jackson needs to get better and fast, that is for sure. I wasn't that high on him when he was drafted and my feelings haven't changed. Is he a good CB prospect? yes, but was he worth the 1st Round pick? I am not sure...I sure hope so.

I would have preferred to sign Dunta and draft Dan Williams instead of reach on KJ in the 1st Round...but hey, I can't complain. 2-0 baby!!

GO TEXANS....kick the crap out of the Pokes Sunday. end Wade's career!!!

HJam72
09-22-2010, 08:45 AM
You are either totally ignoring everything we've been saying, or straight up don't trust what we've been saying.

Kareem has been solid. What you see on TV during the game is only half the story. Watch Playbook, where you get to see real game film. Watch him from the stands at Reliant. He's been solid.

The redskins game, after the half, we went mostly nickel with glover inside. That alone had a huge impact on our pass defense. When we get Cushing back, the only LB we have that understands coverage & zone, our pass defense will be fixed.


I gaurantee!

What is "Playbook?"

Texan_Bill
09-22-2010, 08:57 AM
What is "Playbook?"

:secret: NFLN "Playbook" show.

For example:

Playbook: Colts vs. Texans recap (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d81a8a3be/Playbook-How-Foster-had-record-day)

Jeff S.
09-22-2010, 08:57 AM
Yeah, but the fact is he actually caught it unlike Dumbta who let a VY pass hit him right in the hands and couldn't catch it somehow.

Oh, thanks for dredging up that visual from my memory dungeon.

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2010, 10:20 AM
The front 7 again need to get better at providing consistent pressure on the opposing QB, not just Mario deciding that he needs to do something and getting a sack.

Consistent pressure, McNabb hardly got touched the entire first half, and if you give him time he'll light you up.

I really felt like the defensive line was initially rushing more to "contain" McNabb than to sack him. They were afraid that they'd lose their rush lane integrity and give McNabb a big 20-30 yard run. Later in the game, it appeared they made some adjustments. They put Quinn on Cooley, went to more zone looks, and upped the pressure and started getting to McNabb.

If we attack the Cowboys like we did in the preseason, then we should get more pressure on Romo earlier.

hradhak
09-22-2010, 10:43 AM
I really felt like the defensive line was initially rushing more to "contain" McNabb than to sack him. They were afraid that they'd lose their rush lane integrity and give McNabb a big 20-30 yard run. Later in the game, it appeared they made some adjustments. They put Quinn on Cooley, went to more zone looks, and upped the pressure and started getting to McNabb.

If we attack the Cowboys like we did in the preseason, then we should get more pressure on Romo earlier.

It's good to see our team make adjustments at half time. I felt like in the past that that wasn't happening as often as it needs to.

Romo's good at hitting open receivers. He's not a threat to run so I hope they send the house at him a few times early and get him rattled. I also don't think their offensive line is what it used to be. A few linebacker / safety blitzes would really be nice too.

gtexan02
09-26-2010, 07:19 PM
Anyone still think Kareem isn't a liability? His tackling ability is great, but he is good for at least 1 PI per game and covers about as well as Pburnt or Faggins

TexCanada
09-26-2010, 07:24 PM
Anyone still think Kareem isn't a liability? His tackling ability is great, but he is good for at least 1 PI per game and covers about as well as Pburnt or Faggins

So that would make him even with Dunta then?

LikeMike
09-26-2010, 07:50 PM
I dunno about the other 1st round corners - but Kyle Wilson looks - like a rookie out there as well. Playing CB with the big boys is just different then it was in college. KJ needs to learn - and should be a nickel corner right now.

The problem was: do you want to overpay Dunta (he wasn`t worth the money he got from Atlanta), or overpay some free agent (we didn`t have a real shot at Bodden). Most people on here were thrilled when Dunta left - I wasn`t. Not because he is a superstar, but because it made us really thin and young at CB and we had to draft one in the first round to step in right away and play. Now KJ isn`t as Pro-ready as advertised. He is a good tackler, but get burns several times each game - but he can still become a really good #1 corner, it just takes time.

The question is: do we have time? Cushing comes back pretty soon and will improve our defense. We could go in panic mode and go after an old corner and give up draft picks for him (like Champ Bailey what I read in another thread) - that would help us and I would even go as far as to say almost guarantees us a playoff spot. Or we just keep buiding through the draft...

I dunno what`s the right thing to do - as for KJ: we need to give him time - as for our defense - how about some more help for our young secondary (some exotic looks that actually work - perhaps giving Nolan a shot)?

thunderkyss
09-26-2010, 10:44 PM
So that would make him even with Dunta then?

At the end of the Texans game, my DVR picked up the NO/Atlanta overtime.

I'm watching Dunta get abused by Drew Brees & whiff on tackles.

Marcus
09-27-2010, 12:56 AM
I don't understand.

All this carrying on about the secondary, but if you don't disrupt the QB, how is the secondary going to make up for it?

The pass rush is the problem, not the secondary. It's basic cause and effect. Quit pinging on the effect, and put the blame on the cause. If you don't put pressure on the QB, then it doesn't matter how good the secondary is.

NitroGSXR
09-27-2010, 01:13 AM
I don't understand.

All this carrying on about the secondary, but if you don't disrupt the QB, how is the secondary going to make up for it?

The pass rush is the problem, not the secondary. It's basic cause and effect. Quit pinging on the effect, and put the blame on the cause. If you don't put pressure on the QB, then it doesn't matter how good the secondary is.

I don't understand? I must have misunderstood when Manning says that he'd never been knocked down as much as he was two weeks ago. Also, that sack/pressures number against the Skins last week sure is confusing. I'll tell you what's NOT been misleading and that's our passing yards given up... it's a nice solid consistent inflated number through all three games.

*scoffs*

We have got to have the league's lowest int to passes thrown ratio even. That secondary is rancid. Has been for years.

Marcus
09-27-2010, 01:46 AM
I don't understand? I must have misunderstood when Manning says that he'd never been knocked down as much as he was two weeks ago. Also, that sack/pressures number against the Skins last week sure is confusing. I'll tell you what's NOT been misleading and that's our passing yards given up... it's a nice solid consistent inflated number through all three games.

*scoffs*

We have got to have the league's lowest int to passes thrown ratio even. That secondary is rancid. Has been for years.

So, you actually think they put pressure on Romo today? Do you actually think he didn't have time to throw?

You must have watched a different game when you sold your tickets to some Cowboys fan.

NitroGSXR
09-27-2010, 01:59 AM
So, you actually think they put pressure on Romo today? Do you actually think he didn't have time to throw?

You must have watched a different game when you sold your tickets to some Cowboys fan.

Nope... I don't think we put very much pressure on Romo today. I think our defensive line was mismatched today. Aren't the Cowboys notorious for having big lines? Cowboys are trench people on both sides and we are not. We're still a finesse team.

Goody gumdrops! You play the bitter old man role well. I'd like to ill some good tidings onto you.

:nods head yes:

Dwade
09-27-2010, 06:25 AM
Nope... I don't think we put very much pressure on Romo today. I think our defensive line was mismatched today. Aren't the Cowboys notorious for having big lines? Cowboys are trench people on both sides and we are not. We're still a finesse team.

Goody gumdrops! You play the bitter old man role well. I'd like to ill some good tidings onto you.

:nods head yes:

The Cowboys have a crappy line, did you see how much pressure Washington got on them without Haynesworth?

The lack of pressure is inexcusable.

Grams
09-27-2010, 06:29 AM
The Cowboys have a crappy line, did you see how much pressure Washington got on them without Haynesworth?

The lack of pressure is inexcusable.

The Cowboys had 2 of their O-Line starters out against the Skins.

Blake
09-27-2010, 07:40 AM
I don't understand.

All this carrying on about the secondary, but if you don't disrupt the QB, how is the secondary going to make up for it?

The pass rush is the problem, not the secondary. It's basic cause and effect. Quit pinging on the effect, and put the blame on the cause. If you don't put pressure on the QB, then it doesn't matter how good the secondary is.

Their QB is getting rid of the ball before a single dlineman can even get close. And just so I get this straight, you think our pro bowl Mario williams and Antonio Smith are the problem, and not our rookie and 2nd year cornerbacks?

Its basic cause and effect.

gtexan02
09-27-2010, 07:44 AM
Thats right. You dont understand. Their QB is getting rid of the ball before a single dlineman can even get close. And just so I get this straight, you think our pro bowl Mario williams and Antonio Smith are the problem, and not our rookie and 2nd year cornerbacks?

Its basic cause and effect.

Perfect example are the two Roy Williams TDs.

In both cases, Romo basically tosses the ball as soon as he completes his drop. Theres no need to make reads because Williams is so obviously open. He could have snapped the ball with zero offensive lineman and still scored on both those TDs. When your #1 corner completely whiffs a jam and then falls down, what chance do your pass rushers have? When it happens twice in the same game to a guy liek Roy Williams (who is horrible at escaping the jam), I think it signals a problem

Mr teX
09-27-2010, 07:56 AM
So, you actually think they put pressure on Romo today? Do you actually think he didn't have time to throw?

You must have watched a different game when you sold your tickets to some Cowboys fan.

Really, how much pressure can you put on a guy that is taking 3 step drops the whole game which is what Romo did. The pressure was there for the colts & the skins..the problem is the secondary & honestly i think KJ needs to be relegated to nickel cb status..

Hervoyel
09-27-2010, 09:40 AM
I think that on teams with a set and established pair of corners that the nickel job is a time honored way for promising rookies to get some experience. If we had someone to play in his place at a higher level then I think that's where KJ wuold be.

I'd get aggressive in trying to land a corner and a pass rusher if I could find them. Make a trade, give up some picks, pay some millions. We are young, we have stockpiled talent, we have been frugal and careful with our spending. We have reached a point where the addition of a single player can propel us forward significantly. As evidence of this I give you the addition of Bernard Pollard last year.

GuerillaBlack
09-27-2010, 09:41 AM
Perfect example are the two Roy Williams TDs.

In both cases, Romo basically tosses the ball as soon as he completes his drop. Theres no need to make reads because Williams is so obviously open. He could have snapped the ball with zero offensive lineman and still scored on both those TDs. When your #1 corner completely whiffs a jam and then falls down, what chance do your pass rushers have? When it happens twice in the same game to a guy liek Roy Williams (who is horrible at escaping the jam), I think it signals a problem

Well, that's what happens when Eugene Wilson doesn't help Jackson. For some reason, he moved down over the center. They just talked about this on Dallas sports radio five minutes ago. Romo saw Wilson move up, looked at Roy, and Roy changed his route. Easy 63-yard TD score (they weren't catching Roy).

thunderkyss
09-27-2010, 11:12 AM
Perfect example are the two Roy Williams TDs.

In both cases, Romo basically tosses the ball as soon as he completes his drop. Theres no need to make reads because Williams is so obviously open. He could have snapped the ball with zero offensive lineman and still scored on both those TDs. When your #1 corner completely whiffs a jam and then falls down, what chance do your pass rushers have? When it happens twice in the same game to a guy liek Roy Williams (who is horrible at escaping the jam), I think it signals a problem

If you have the game taped, watch it again. McCain (on the second TD) is yapping at Wilson, not the official (as Aikman implies). Wilson comes off the field, & never goes back.

He whiffed on both of those. On the Kareem fall down, yes it would have been niced had he not fell.... but it is what it is.

Scheme is used to take away receivers just as much as quality corners. When the scheme says safety over the top, & your safety can't get over the top... don't blame the CBs.

Goldensilence
09-27-2010, 11:47 AM
This secondary really misses having Cushing to cover the flats and TEs. I've said this before I like Diles as a technician, but his lack of top end speed for a LBer is killing us.

I think Kareem will be fine as he gets more experience and adjusts to the speed and precision of WRs at the NFL level. The staff decided to go REALLY young at DB. I really thought they should've made an effort to go after another vet even after the CB from NE spurred our offer. Also thought it was a mistake to outright cut Reeves.

Second Honeymoon
09-27-2010, 12:02 PM
We let our #1 corner go because we didn't want to spend the money
Did anyone actually think our secondary would improve? Sadly, some may had actually believed that. I know Dunta handled it poorly but he should have been tendered the franchise tag again

I don't hate jackson but it's obvious he is not NFL quality. And I am having concerns over Ricks ability to draft cornerbacks. He is like 0 for 7.

If it continues badly offer raiders a 1st and jacoby and Alston and maybe a 4th for Asomoghu

thunderkyss
09-27-2010, 12:07 PM
We let our #1 corner go because we didn't want to spend the money

Did you see Dunta getting burned in Atlanta? I'm sure that will make replay, watch it.

It is at least reasonable to believe KJ will get better.

No reason to believe Dunta will.

disaacks3
09-27-2010, 12:12 PM
KJ's coverage skills are CURRENTLY at least as good as those of DR. The advantage is that his ceiling will be higher than Dunta's.

Kareem (other than the falldown) held his own. Some people seem to believe that it's impossible to complete a pass vs. "good" coverage. It isn't. Yesterday, Romo was making all of the throws and Schaub wasn't...it's that simple.

ChampionTexan
09-27-2010, 12:19 PM
I've said before that I believe Dunta developed a loser's mentality over the time he spent here, and I still believe it. It's negative impact may not be as obvious as a blown coverage (although he had those too), but it's potentially as bad or worse.

I don't believe Dunta would have turned yesterday's loss into a win, but I do think he could have turned a close - down to the wire game like Washington into a loss.

Rey
09-27-2010, 12:23 PM
So, you actually think they put pressure on Romo today? Do you actually think he didn't have time to throw?

You must have watched a different game when you sold your tickets to some Cowboys fan.

I do...

We forced him to move around a lot. Early in the game they were using a lof of quick hitting routes. Even some of they're big plays were quick hitters.

The D-line did fine rushing the passer IMO. Romo rarely had to look off defenders, he rarely had to go to a second read...And when he did we were able to get pressure and make him move some.

The D-line forced an intentional grounding...I never at one point felt like Romo had all day to throw the ball. He wasn't just sitting back there comfortably reading the entire field and throwing it. No, not all all. He WAS making one or two reads and throwing it. That's on the players in the back end.

Brice McCain is not physical at all and his coverage is less than spectacular. I think he's better in Zone because he can use his quickness and instincts more. In man to man he just gets bullied. Even if he's right there with the receiver they just body him up and make the catch. I can get a humming bird to do that. Essentially Brice McCain is a humming bird.

Kareem Jackson not good right now. He is always grabbing on his facemask like his helmet doesn't fit right. He gives up far too many big plays and it doesn't appear he has the athletic ability to keep up with some of these receivers. Of course you can make up for lack of athletic ability if you have good technique, savvy and smarts...But he clearly doesn't have any of those qualities either. Right now all we have is a CB that is very physical when bringing down ball players, but couldn't cover a a grain of rice with a bead spread.

GQ is about as solid as we got. He gets beat sometimes, but overall he does a pretty good job IMO. Hasn't gotten tested as much as the other guys though. May have something to do with his skills, may have something to do with the other guys just being easier targets...Maybe a combo of both.

Our safeties....

Pollard is a good. He is not Polamalu but he is a very good SS. His coverage isn't top notch, but not many SS are great in covg. He does seem to be around more balls in the air than Wilson though.

Wilson needs to be replaced IMO. I think that good FS play can cover some of the weaknesses of lesser corners, but I have yet to see Wilson do anything this year. He is not even around the ball much. I barely see him even get to a receiver to make a tackle after a catch. When I'm watching the game it's like Pollard, Quinn and Jackson are out there by themselves because the LB's and FS are non-existent.

The LB's are normally responsible for backs and TE's. While those two positions haven't been lighting us up much in the passing game, I still think that they should be involve more in pass defense. Some of this could be the play calling, but I think that we need to get some better players there.

In a year or two, I wouldn't be surprised if Cushing and Sharpton were our Nickel LB's. Demeco has just not been an impact player when teams decide to throw the ball.

I'd like to see three changes to the defense before I determine that we will be one of the worst pass coverage teams in the NFL.

I'd like to see Troy Nolan get some snaps to see how he handles it. I'd also like to see more Molden, Less McCain. And Maybe less Jackson if Molden steps up. And Last...I'd like to see what we look like when Cush comes back.

I think those three players could potentially make us much better.

Dutchrudder
09-27-2010, 12:23 PM
KJ's coverage skills are CURRENTLY at least as good as those of DR. The advantage is that his ceiling will be higher than Dunta's.

Kareem (other than the falldown) held his own. Some people seem to believe that it's impossible to complete a pass vs. "good" coverage. It isn't. Yesterday, Romo was making all of the throws and Schaub wasn't...it's that simple.

I dunno, Dunta would not have fallen down during the last Roy Williams TD play. We all know Dunta would have been trotting 5 yards behind him as he went into the end zone...

Jeff S.
09-27-2010, 12:37 PM
Dunta is gone, and we really shouldn't be wasting any time on him. I happen to agree with releasing him, but even if it wasn't the right decision we can't go back and redo it. "Time done been. Won't be no more."

Do ya'll really think Kubes/Smith didn't know that KJ was going to get burned from time to time? Of course they did. What they probably didn't count on was that Wilson would suck so bad, or that Barwin would go on IR. (btw, as reported elsewhere on TT, LZ tweets that the Schobel thing might be heating up.)

Is Wilson blowing assignments? Isn't he supposed to be experienced and not do that? Or is he suddenly too old and slow? His experience is supposed to be a plus, but doesn't count for much if he's rolling around in a wheelchair out there. Looking at the first three games, it's hard not to conclude that they might as well try Nolan, because it can't get any worse.

Goldensilence
09-27-2010, 05:18 PM
I do...

We forced him to move around a lot. Early in the game they were using a lof of quick hitting routes. Even some of they're big plays were quick hitters.

The D-line did fine rushing the passer IMO. Romo rarely had to look off defenders, he rarely had to go to a second read...And when he did we were able to get pressure and make him move some.

The D-line forced an intentional grounding...I never at one point felt like Romo had all day to throw the ball. He wasn't just sitting back there comfortably reading the entire field and throwing it. No, not all all. He WAS making one or two reads and throwing it. That's on the players in the back end.

Brice McCain is not physical at all and his coverage is less than spectacular. I think he's better in Zone because he can use his quickness and instincts more. In man to man he just gets bullied. Even if he's right there with the receiver they just body him up and make the catch. I can get a humming bird to do that. Essentially Brice McCain is a humming bird.

Kareem Jackson not good right now. He is always grabbing on his facemask like his helmet doesn't fit right. He gives up far too many big plays and it doesn't appear he has the athletic ability to keep up with some of these receivers. Of course you can make up for lack of athletic ability if you have good technique, savvy and smarts...But he clearly doesn't have any of those qualities either. Right now all we have is a CB that is very physical when bringing down ball players, but couldn't cover a a grain of rice with a bead spread.

GQ is about as solid as we got. He gets beat sometimes, but overall he does a pretty good job IMO. Hasn't gotten tested as much as the other guys though. May have something to do with his skills, may have something to do with the other guys just being easier targets...Maybe a combo of both.

Our safeties....

Pollard is a good. He is not Polamalu but he is a very good SS. His coverage isn't top notch, but not many SS are great in covg. He does seem to be around more balls in the air than Wilson though.

Wilson needs to be replaced IMO. I think that good FS play can cover some of the weaknesses of lesser corners, but I have yet to see Wilson do anything this year. He is not even around the ball much. I barely see him even get to a receiver to make a tackle after a catch. When I'm watching the game it's like Pollard, Quinn and Jackson are out there by themselves because the LB's and FS are non-existent.

The LB's are normally responsible for backs and TE's. While those two positions haven't been lighting us up much in the passing game, I still think that they should be involve more in pass defense. Some of this could be the play calling, but I think that we need to get some better players there.

In a year or two, I wouldn't be surprised if Cushing and Sharpton were our Nickel LB's. Demeco has just not been an impact player when teams decide to throw the ball.

I'd like to see three changes to the defense before I determine that we will be one of the worst pass coverage teams in the NFL.

I'd like to see Troy Nolan get some snaps to see how he handles it. I'd also like to see more Molden, Less McCain. And Maybe less Jackson if Molden steps up. And Last...I'd like to see what we look like when Cush comes back.

I think those three players could potentially make us much better.

Your assesment of the defense pretty much matches the one I was going to write but, decided instead to cut my post short.

McCain might have the speed we want, but he's too small to press, especially when he's covering the more typical slot, possession receivers.

I like Quinn, but he lacks top end speed to be an elite CB. I think he can continue to be a solid #2 or pushed to an elite nickel back.

I just have no clue what we have with Molden. Physically he's got all the tools you want.

Wonder where all the people who were saying Wilson was adequate prior to the start of the year. It's been more clear this year that he's not. Though I doubt it, I'd like to see Nolan worked into the lineup.

Pollard is real solid. Pretty much everything you want in a SS.

LBer is a problem. We obviously miss Cushing's ability to come in on a blitz and ability to cover the flats and TEs.

As I said before I like Diles as a technician, but his footspeed leaves a lot to be desired. He fits much better as a MLB, problem is Demeco is a 2 time pro-bowler there and it's difficult to move that kind of production at a position. Diles is that sort of frustrating player in that he's definitely good enough to start, but he's maxed out and you end up spending a lot to try and get someone that's good enough to replace him. In the meantime all the guy does is come in, works hard, and earns the respect of his teammates.

I also think Demeco could be just as, if not more effective, at WLB.

Adibi, I just wish this guy wouldn't get an injury at the most inopportune times. Physically what you want in a WLB.

Sharpton, impressive in TC and pre-season, but can he cover?

I think I'm with Herv on biting the bullet and looking to make a move on a veteran CB.

Otherwise it looks like the best bet for the secondary is to hope when Cushing gets back he makes as big an impact as he did last year and possibly work Nolan in.

Lucky
09-27-2010, 06:53 PM
Dunta is gone, and we really shouldn't be wasting any time on him.
I agree with that. I didn't agree with the handling of Dunta back in the '09 offseason. But what's done is done. It is what it is. Pick your cliché.

I do feel that we Texan fans were sold a bill of goods with the "most NFL ready" moniker Jackson was given. He's no more ready than any other rookie CB from this draft. He has talent. He will be a good NFL corner. One day. Until then, Kareem will get burned. Often. It is what it is.

drs23
09-27-2010, 06:53 PM
Your assesment of the defense pretty much matches the one I was going to write but, decided instead to cut my post short.

McCain might have the speed we want, but he's too small to press, especially when he's covering the more typical slot, possession receivers.

I like Quinn, but he lacks top end speed to be an elite CB. I think he can continue to be a solid #2 or pushed to an elite nickel back.

I just have no clue what we have with Molden. Physically he's got all the tools you want.

Wonder where all the people who were saying Wilson was adequate prior to the start of the year. It's been more clear this year that he's not. Though I doubt it, I'd like to see Nolan worked into the lineup.

Pollard is real solid. Pretty much everything you want in a SS.

LBer is a problem. We obviously miss Cushing's ability to come in on a blitz and ability to cover the flats and TEs.

As I said before I like Diles as a technician, but his footspeed leaves a lot to be desired. He fits much better as a MLB, problem is Demeco is a 2 time pro-bowler there and it's difficult to move that kind of production at a position. Diles is that sort of frustrating player in that he's definitely good enough to start, but he's maxed out and you end up spending a lot to try and get someone that's good enough to replace him. In the meantime all the guy does is come in, works hard, and earns the respect of his teammates.

I also think Demeco could be just as, if not more effective, at WLB.

Adibi, I just wish this guy wouldn't get an injury at the most inopportune times. Physically what you want in a WLB.

Sharpton, impressive in TC and pre-season, but can he cover?

I think I'm with Herv on biting the bullet and looking to make a move on a veteran CB.

Otherwise it looks like the best bet for the secondary is to hope when Cushing gets back he makes as big an impact as he did last year and possibly work Nolan in.

He had a pick in PS and looked very comfortable/natural doing it. I think he's a baller and needs to see more field time. JMHO

Rey
09-27-2010, 07:00 PM
Your assessment of the defense pretty much matches the one I was going to write but, decided instead to cut my post short.


Wanted to add one more thing...

The Cowboys were running a lot of draws early in the game, and they never really let up with all the draws...They ran that throughout the game.

That is naturally going to slow down a pass rush. Especially when you are getting gashed.

The D-line now has to worry about the possibility that the QB could hand it off to the RB...That will slow them down and make them reactors instead of attackers. Even with that element I still think they did a good job of making Romo move around when he wasn't making his first read and letting it fly.

There is really not way around this. The secondary has not played well since the season started. Our pass coverage is poor. That has very little to do with the D-line getting pressure, because even when they have gotten pressure we've still been getting burned.

Two players, Quinn and Wilson have had chances at a pick six because of a bad throw, and both players have dropped the ball. Overall, they have sucked back there.

thunderkyss
09-28-2010, 04:46 PM
The officials called Zak Diles on a pass interference against Witten. Aikman says it should have been called on Kareem, that the referee made a mistake.

He is wrong. Kareem's coverage on that slant was perfect.

Diles is about 8 yards off the LOS & jams him as Witten cuts to the middle. The call should have been illegal contact. The ball was in the air, but it was directed to Austin/Jackson.

Hookem Horns
09-28-2010, 09:23 PM
Falcons fans are in love with Dunta. I was just reading this http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3902332-we-hardly-see-dunta-robinson-at-all-during-the-game/

JB
09-28-2010, 09:28 PM
Falcons fans are in love with Dunta. I was just reading this http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3902332-we-hardly-see-dunta-robinson-at-all-during-the-game/

They will learn soon enough.

Rey
09-30-2010, 05:50 PM
Falcons fans are in love with Dunta. I was just reading this http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3902332-we-hardly-see-dunta-robinson-at-all-during-the-game/

I don't think Dunta is as good as some of those fans think he is, but I do think we should have franchised him one more year AND taken a corner high in the draft.

That way we could have had even more competition and viable players back there and allowed the rook a year to develop without costing us big in the process. If you want to go to the play-offs for the first time, it only makes sense to make your team as strong as possible.

But oh well...what's done is done..

thunderkyss
09-30-2010, 06:27 PM
I don't think Dunta is as good as some of those fans think he is, but I do think we should have franchised him one more year AND taken a corner high in the draft.

That way we could have had even more competition and viable players back there and allowed the rook a year to develop without costing us big in the process. If you want to go to the play-offs for the first time, it only makes sense to make your team as strong as possible.

But oh well...what's done is done..

I'm asking, because I don't know, but who was teaching Asomagha the ropes? Who taught Champ?

We got burned vs Indy & Washington, but we won those games. The WR numbers against Dallas aren't that bad, especially if you take out KJ's one bad mistake (63 yards & TD). We lost, an emotional game, and we're letting that cloud our judgement.

Rey
09-30-2010, 06:53 PM
I'm asking, because I don't know, but who was teaching Asomagha the ropes? Who taught Champ?

I don't know, but I don't see how that is relevant to my post you quoted. I didn't mention anyone teaching anyone the ropes. I just said that the rookie would have had a year to develop without being pressed into starting duty and costing us big in the process.

we could have had even more competition and viable players back there and allowed the rook a year to develop without costing us big in the process. If you want to go to the play-offs for the first time, it only makes sense to make your team as strong as possible.

I feel like Kareem will end up being a better cover corner for us than Dunta was, but I thought that it would have benefited the overall talent on the team to retain Dunta for at least one more year.

We got burned vs Indy & Washington, but we won those games. The WR numbers against Dallas aren't that bad, especially if you take out KJ's one bad mistake (63 yards & TD). We lost, an emotional game, and we're letting that cloud our judgement.


No, My judgement is not clouded...I was making a statement about how I felt this past off-season....

And you cannot take out a mistake...That is part of the game...

If we get to remove a mistake, can Dallas remove a mistake they made in their passing game too? What if Romo see's that receiver he missed? or if the Dallas receiver makes a better read and finds that soft spot in coverage...

On top of that, even if that big play doesn't happen, how do we know they don't just re-gather themselves and drive down the field anyways like they had been doing all day?

I can't get into the business of taking out plays in a football game, much like I don't go back in my own life and wonder how things would have been different if a single event wouldn't have happened. It's pointless to do because the event occurred. Kareem got burned because he got worked. It wasn't some fluke play. He has not been good thus far and there is really no amount of taking out plays that can refute that fact.

thunderkyss
09-30-2010, 07:27 PM
And you cannot take out a mistake...That is part of the game...


The point of taking out the mistake, isn't to pretend it didn't happen, it is to get a better look at the overall picture. Other than one play, in which Kareem fell down, Kareem did pretty good. Miles Austin?? only made 2 catches, one against Quin, I assume the other against Kareem ( I could be wrong, they may both be on Quin).

Dez Bryant? A nice catch against McCAin.. but not much else.

Roy Williams... like I said, the guy fell down.

One mistake for a Rookie.

Another reason I mention taking out the one play, is if we assume Kareem is only going to get better with time, pointing out one mistake tells me he doesn't have far to go.

Rey
09-30-2010, 07:44 PM
The point of taking out the mistake, isn't to pretend it didn't happen, it is to get a better look at the overall picture. Other than one play, in which Kareem fell down, Kareem did pretty good. Miles Austin?? only made 2 catches, one against Quin, I assume the other against Kareem ( I could be wrong, they may both be on Quin).

Dez Bryant? A nice catch against McCAin.. but not much else.

Roy Williams... like I said, the guy fell down.

One mistake for a Rookie.

Another reason I mention taking out the one play, is if we assume Kareem is only going to get better with time, pointing out one mistake tells me he doesn't have far to go.

My point is that you can apply that one mistake logic to any and every player...

I could understand more if it were not a regular occurrence, but Kareem has gotten roasted since his first regular season game.

...Now I am one of the first ones to point out the caliber of QB's and offenses we've played, but I'm still going to call a spade a spade.

And I really have become less and less fond of McCain. He is going to have to win my love back or I am going to start talking about how I want him gone. Once that happens, I normally don't end up disappointed. I tend to get my way. Maybe Kubiak hears my thoughts.

I think there is hope for McCain, and I think he can excel against smaller type or not as physical type of receivers. He tends to be right there with his man, but he is too easy to make a catch on. I have dubbed him the humming bird.

But yeah...I can't make any excuses for this secondary. They have all been suspect. I disagree that the only play Jackson messed up on was the one he fell down...Even if it was, he's been beaten enough in the two games prior for it not to matter...

If Kareem could even become mediocre anytime soon, it'd be a step up for us. I'd call that a win.

thunderkyss
09-30-2010, 08:15 PM
My point is that you can apply that one mistake logic to any and every player...

I could understand more if it were not a regular occurrence, but Kareem has gotten roasted since his first regular season game.

I'm talking about a rookie & watching him adjust to the NFL.

If Kareem could even become mediocre anytime soon, it'd be a step up for us. I'd call that a win.


I didn't care for the Kareem pick. The I watched two of his college games, and liked it even less.

I like him much better now that vie seen him in the pros. He's made some mistakes, but I think his progress from week to week has been very good.

I also do not believe he's been getting burned as much as we think.

Texan_Bill
09-30-2010, 08:22 PM
Falcons fans are in love with Dunta. I was just reading this http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3902332-we-hardly-see-dunta-robinson-at-all-during-the-game/

I remember Carolina Panther all stoked about getting HWSRM... A few of us TT posters tried to warn them, but to no avail. They learned. Oh yeah, they learned.

The Pencil Neck
09-30-2010, 11:32 PM
I'm asking, because I don't know, but who was teaching Asomagha the ropes? Who taught Champ?

We got burned vs Indy & Washington, but we won those games. The WR numbers against Dallas aren't that bad, especially if you take out KJ's one bad mistake (63 yards & TD). We lost, an emotional game, and we're letting that cloud our judgement.

I know this was a kind of a rhetorical question, but I think the answer is interesting.

Nnamdi was mostly just a special teamer his first year but he played some safety and, iirc, started one game. And then moved to corner his second year.

The starting defensive backs for the Raiders Nnamdi's first year were: Phililp Buchanon (omg) and Terence Shaw (at RCB), Charles Woodson, Rod Woodson, and Anthony Dorsett.

So, basically, he learned from Rod Woodson and Charles Woodson. Rod Woodson was not a bad guy to learn from.

imatexan
10-10-2010, 09:30 PM
:thinking:

thunderkyss
10-10-2010, 09:34 PM
:thinking:

He's got more INTs & tackles than Dunta right now.

imatexan
10-10-2010, 10:56 PM
He's got more INTs & tackles than Dunta right now.

Of course he has more tackles, the receiver catches the ball almost every time it is thrown in his area so he is a decent tackler.

1 INT to none just shows that neither one of them is that great but it is not even close how much better Dunta is RITE NOW than Kareem.

Believe me I wish this was not true but some Texans fans are delusional on the issue.

Norg
10-10-2010, 11:40 PM
so is dunta still teh starter in ATL ????

u know we play the NFC South next year me thinks

thunderkyss
10-10-2010, 11:53 PM
Of course he has more tackles, the receiver catches the ball almost every time it is thrown in his area so he is a decent tackler.

1 INT to none just shows that neither one of them is that great but it is not even close how much better Dunta is RITE NOW than Kareem.

Believe me I wish this was not true but some Texans fans are delusional on the issue.

Kareem could get burnt 385 times this year.

I would bet money Dunta would get burned 386. Dunta was not all that when he was here, I have no idea what you guys saw the last two years to make you think he was.

TexCanada
10-11-2010, 12:05 AM
While I'm sure that Dunta would be making less mistakes then Kareem is right now, I would still rather have Kareem based purely on potential. An equal amount of blame needs to go to the coaches/scheme, the players around KJ, and of course KJ as well. There might only be 2 CBs in the league who could survive in this system right now.

TheCD
12-20-2010, 04:52 PM
I wanted to find a good thread to post this in, and this was the best I could find.

I was curious how Dunta's been doing so I jumped over to one of the Falcons' MB's and saw this quote. Be prepared, because it's gonna hurt...


Do we really need to have a thread about this every week? He's been very good for our defense. He rarely gets beat. I think he's given up 2 TD's all season long. And his contract is not nearly as big as you guys make it out to be. He was not given a top 5 CB contract. I wrote a very long post a while back in a thread about his contract where I compared it to other CB contracts. In summary, he got 9 mil a year. Nnamdi got 15. Revis got 13. Nate freaking Clements got 10 about 4 years ago. Champ got 10 mil 6 years ago. Before you say Champ is better, NFL salaries go up 10-15 percent per year, so Champ getting 10 mil 6 years ago would be closer to the 15 Nnamdi got. 9 mil a year is NOT top 5 CB money. Name 1 CB that has given up less TD's. In my opinion, he's exceeding his contract.

http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3910908-if-dunta-robinson-fails-to-get-atleast-1-interception-this-season/page__st__20

TEXANS84
12-20-2010, 04:54 PM
The title of this thread has kept me from posting in here, and after this post it will be my last in here as well.

Blake
12-20-2010, 05:29 PM
I love it. Two pre-season games and he is king around here.

If he has a good game against Peyton what will yall do? Make a statue of him out of gold? Demand he get a deal equal to Revis?

Lets let him prove himself before we crown his ass.

Anyone still want to put KJ on a pedestal around here? No? Oh was that just a preseason thing?

I stand behind these statements.

Wolf
12-20-2010, 05:32 PM
No news to me, d-rob didn't want to be a Texan anyway.

silvrhand
12-20-2010, 05:51 PM
I wanted to find a good thread to post this in, and this was the best I could find.

I was curious how Dunta's been doing so I jumped over to one of the Falcons' MB's and saw this quote. Be prepared, because it's gonna hurt...

http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3910908-if-dunta-robinson-fails-to-get-atleast-1-interception-this-season/page__st__20

Let me give you the likely reason that he is doing much better:

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/roster-coaches/tim-lewis/

Read the credentials.. seriously can we get this guy as our DC?

Brisco_County
12-20-2010, 06:35 PM
I still say it wasn't worth all that money to move from 32nd to 27th. With a better free safety, that would be even more obvious.

thunderkyss
12-20-2010, 07:37 PM
I wanted to find a good thread to post this in, and this was the best I could find.

I was curious how Dunta's been doing so I jumped over to one of the Falcons' MB's and saw this quote. Be prepared, because it's gonna hurt...




http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3910908-if-dunta-robinson-fails-to-get-atleast-1-interception-this-season/page__st__20

What hurts, is that he went to Atlanta for less money.

Kinda like every other FA out there. You want a reason why we don't go after the big name FAs..... there you go!

Wolf
12-20-2010, 07:44 PM
The Texans weren't as aggressive as I wished but we did go after a FA and he used us to go back to the Pats

texanhead08
12-20-2010, 10:35 PM
Let me give you the likely reason that he is doing much better:

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/roster-coaches/tim-lewis/

Read the credentials.. seriously can we get this guy as our DC?


I remember the freak neck injury that ended his career. Damn I am getting old.

Rey
12-20-2010, 10:41 PM
What hurts, is that he went to Atlanta for less money.

Kinda like every other FA out there. You want a reason why we don't go after the big name FAs..... there you go!


Only thing is, they could have franchised Dunta...

Texan4Ever
12-20-2010, 10:48 PM
Even if Dunta has helped shutdown his side of the field for the Falcons on defense, he isn't worth the money because IMO, the message we would be sending to our players is that if you complain enough we will dish out millions of dollars more than what you're worth.

Keeping Dunta could have helped us but he was quickly turning into a cancer and his "Pay Me Rick" is hardly the traits of a leader. We may suck on defense but in the long run if things improve we may be better off.

NitroGSXR
12-20-2010, 10:54 PM
Even if Dunta has helped shutdown his side of the field for the Falcons on defense, he isn't worth the money because IMO, the message we would be sending to our players is that if you complain enough we will dish out millions of dollars more than what you're worth.

Keeping Dunta could have helped us but he was quickly turning into a cancer and his "Pay Me Rick" is hardly the traits of a leader. We may suck on defense but in the long run if things improve we may be better off.

What if the Falcons win the Super Bowl?

Rey
12-20-2010, 10:55 PM
Even if Dunta has helped shutdown his side of the field for the Falcons on defense, he isn't worth the money because IMO, the message we would be sending to our players is that if you complain enough we will dish out millions of dollars more than what you're worth.

I disagree.

I think grown men are going to be who they are regardless of what other grown men do.

These aren't children...

At this point their personalities are formed.

I don't think players are going to come in and act like Andre any more than they'd have come in and act like Dunta.

But besides all of that, winning and fielding the best team SHOULD be the priority at this point...They got too ahead of themselves and didn't plan well...

That's really all there is to it.

NitroGSXR
12-20-2010, 11:01 PM
I disagree.

I think grown men are going to be who they are regardless of what other grown men do.

These aren't children...

At this point their personalities are formed.

I don't think players are going to come in and act like Andre any more than they'd have come in and act like Dunta.

But besides all of that, winning and fielding the best team SHOULD be the priority at this point...They got too ahead of themselves and didn't plan well...

That's really all there is to it.

Yup. And remember Dunta was not the only one having contract issues... Owen and DeMeco stepped up despite Dunta's antics.

Rick Smith should have paid the man because Dunta is laughing all the way to a homefield advantage bid throughout the playoffs. Man... as a season ticket holder... I drool at the notion of homefield advantage!

Dammit.

ThaShark316
12-20-2010, 11:13 PM
Yup. And remember Dunta was not the only one having contract issues... Owen and DeMeco stepped up despite Dunta's antics.

Rick Smith should have paid the man because Dunta is laughing all the way to a homefield advantage bid throughout the playoffs. Man... as a season ticket holder... I drool at the notion of homefield advantage!

Dammit.

lol true...I don't, however, drool at a 1st round flameout(1st round for them = divisional playoffs)...which ATL will get...it's sad cuz I really like that squad.

Carr Bombed
12-20-2010, 11:17 PM
I don't really understand the bump of this thread...


Dunta still isn't worth the money he was asking for, and he wouldn't of made that much of a difference here......the guy was a #2 corner at best, honestly I don't know why Texan fans keep on bumping threads like this one.

Dunta sucks and regardless of what happens this season, he isn't part of the solution.
So as TEXAN FANS, we need to get over him and move on. Dunta Robinson at best was just average.....can we please stop acting like he was a savior here.

NitroGSXR
12-20-2010, 11:33 PM
I don't really understand the bump of this thread...


Dunta still isn't worth the money he was asking, and he wouldn't of made that much of a difference here......the guy was a #2 corner at best, honestly I don't know why Texan fans keep on bumping threads that are about him, like this one.

Dunta sucks and regardless of what happens this season, he isn't part of the solution.
So as TEXAN FANS, he needs to get over it and move on.

Man if we even had a #2 corner. I would be joyous if we had the #27-28-29 ranked defense because the difference in four straight games was... a Dunta swat away. Dunta was a leader. I love the man for trying but DeMeco is N-O-T.

I have moved on just fine, Care Bombed. I do enjoy talking about what could have been. I like the "what if" game. My eyebrows were not scrunched up in anger when I mentioned Dunta's name just now. Kudos to the guy, you know? He hustled his ass off for us for years and now he's getting his.

If we want to play the anger game then consider Dunta's current success as proof that Rick Smith is a broken GM. Smith IS very much a part of these defensive troubles today so I WILL focus on what did happen.

Dunta's going to the playoffs as a starting CB. No and ifs or buts about it.

Carr Bombed
12-20-2010, 11:44 PM
Man if we even had a #2 corner. I would be joyous if we had the #27-28-29 ranked defense because the difference in four straight games was... a Dunta swat away. Dunta was a leader. I love the man for trying but DeMeco is N-O-T.

I have moved on just fine, Care Bombed. I do enjoy talking about what could have been. I like the "what if" game. My eyebrows were not scrunched up in anger when I mentioned Dunta's name just now. Kudos to the guy, you know? He hustled his ass off for us for years and now he's getting his.

If we want to play the anger game then consider Dunta's current success as proof that Rick Smith is a broken GM. Smith IS very much a part of these defensive troubles today so I WILL focus on what did happen.

Dunta's going to the playoffs as a starting CB. No and ifs or buts about it.

Dunta never hustled his ass off for us and he was never a "leader for us".

Honestly I don't know why people still cry for him. The guy was average at best and regardless of what happens this year..Houston made the right decision. Dunta Robinson is not and was never the answer (not at the price he was asking for).....glad he's gone....infact couldn't be anymore happier that he's gone. Houston not going to the playoffs this year has absolutely nothing to do with Dunta Robinson.

Big Lou
12-20-2010, 11:48 PM
Dunta never hustled his ass off for us and he was never a "leader for us".

Honestly I don't know why people still cry for him. The guy was average at best and regardless of what happens this year..Houston made the right decision. Dunta Robinson is not and was never the answer (not at the price he was asking for).....glad he's gone....infact couldn't be anymore happier that he's gone. Houston not going to the playoffs this year has absolutely nothing to do with Dunta Robinson.

I respectfully disagree with part of your statement. Dunta played his ass off before the injury, but after the Oakland game he was a Class Douche Bag. This team was willing to give him more than he was worth and he acted like a jack ass, I hope Atlanta is happy with top 5 CB money for a top 50 level CB. I wish DR the best. He was two different guys in my book, but I sure dislike the second one.

NitroGSXR
12-20-2010, 11:53 PM
Dunta never hustled his ass off for us and he was never a "leader for us".

Honestly I don't know why people still cry for him. The guy was average at best and regardless of what happens this year..Houston made the right decision. Dunta Robinson is not and was never the answer (not at the price he was asking for).....glad he's gone....infact couldn't be anymore happier that he's gone. Houston not going to the playoffs this year has absolutely nothing to do with Dunta Robinson.

And I respect and thank you for your opinion. Why you gotta bash mine into something that's not true? It's like me trying to stuff a "Brice McCain's better than Dumbta" in your mouth I'm not crying for him. He's a Falcon and he's enjoying some tremendous success over there. I clearly understand that. Do you?

At least appreciate the irony of it all...

imatexan
12-21-2010, 02:42 AM
Dunta never hustled his ass off for us and he was never a "leader for us".

Honestly I don't know why people still cry for him. The guy was average at best and regardless of what happens this year..Houston made the right decision. Dunta Robinson is not and was never the answer (not at the price he was asking for).....glad he's gone....infact couldn't be anymore happier that he's gone. Houston not going to the playoffs this year has absolutely nothing to do with Dunta Robinson.

I agree that he was not the answer but he did play his heart out and was a leader before his injury.

It's just sad because we made him look good in this situation, he got his money and left and we became the worst passing defense.

Blake
12-21-2010, 07:15 AM
I don't really understand the bump of this thread... Dunta still isn't worth the money he was asking for, and he wouldn't of made that much of a difference here......the guy was a #2 corner at best, honestly I don't know why Texan fans keep on bumping threads like this one. Dunta sucks and regardless of what happens this season, he isn't part of the solution.

Well that settles that. I am glad you can see into alternate realities and divulge that information for us. Ill sleep better tonight knowing that keeping a veteran CB like Dunta wouldn't have helped us this season.

So as TEXAN FANS, we need to get over him and move on. Dunta Robinson at best was just average.....can we please stop acting like he was a savior here.

C'mon CB, since when are we not allowed to discuss former Texans on this board? And nobody is saying he was a savior here. The entire thread is about Dunta and Kareem in comparison. Nobody is saying Dunta was our savior.

Dunta never hustled his ass off for us and he was never a "leader for us".

Honestly I don't know why people still cry for him. The guy was average at best and regardless of what happens this year..Houston made the right decision. Dunta Robinson is not and was never the answer (not at the price he was asking for).....glad he's gone....infact couldn't be anymore happier that he's gone. Houston not going to the playoffs this year has absolutely nothing to do with Dunta Robinson.

Thank you for describing my opinions as "crying for him." Really appreciated. Also, I cant believe that you feel our 32nd ranked defense keeping us out of the playoffs this year has nothing to do with Dunta or veteran presence in the secondary. But keep on fighting the good fight.

I respectfully disagree with part of your statement. Dunta played his ass off before the injury, but after the Oakland game he was a Class Douche Bag. This team was willing to give him more than he was worth and he acted like a jack ass, I hope Atlanta is happy with top 5 CB money for a top 50 level CB. I wish DR the best. He was two different guys in my book, but I sure dislike the second one.

Have you actually verified that Dunta is making top 5 CB money, or is that just your assumption? I will agree that he should have acted differently during the contract year. But he isn't the first and wont be the last to do that crap.

Texan_Bill
12-21-2010, 08:32 AM
Meh!! Atlanta's defense is no great shakes. They're ranked 15th overall and 20th against the pass. Better than us? Sure, but not nearly enough to justify overpaying an over-rated Dunta "Pay me Rick" Robinson.

HOU-TEX
12-21-2010, 08:41 AM
Meh!! Atlanta's defense is no great shakes. They're ranked 15th overall and 20th against the pass. Better than us? Sure, but not nearly enough to justify overpaying an over-rated Dunta "Pay me Rick" Robinson.

True, but other than going about a contract the wrong way, what else did he do wrong? Sure, he was beaten every once in a while, but what CB hasn't been? Other than the "Pay Me Rick" shenanagans, I had no problem with Dunta.

In the end, he's gone so it is what it is. We move on, which I have.

Texan_Bill
12-21-2010, 08:48 AM
True, but other than going about a contract the wrong way, what else did he do wrong? Sure, he was beaten every once in a while, but what CB hasn't been? Other than the "Pay Me Rick" shenanagans, I had no problem with Dunta.

In the end, he's gone so it is what it is. We move on, which I have.

Well he celebrated a tackle (which he gets paid for) while Manning lines up the Colts offense and throws a 40 yard strike. He got burned deep against Tennessee in the Bironas 8 field goal performance. He repeatedly missed tackles. He had 6 picks in his rookie season, he's had 7 since (in 6 more seasons).

But I agree and I moved on from Dunta before he was officially gone. The "Pay me Rick" was the final straw for me with that guy.

HOU-TEX
12-21-2010, 08:53 AM
Well he celebrated a tackle (which he gets paid for) while Manning lines up the Colts offense and throws a 40 yard strike. He got burned deep against Tennessee in the Bironas 8 field goal performance. He repeatedly missed tackles. He had 6 picks in his rookie season, he's had 7 since (in 6 more seasons).

But I agree and I moved on from Dunta before he was officially gone. The "Pay me Rick" was the final straw for me with that guy.

Yezzir, we need to fix this 'thing' we've been trotting out onto the field on gamedays.

Rey
12-21-2010, 11:25 AM
I was never upset at Dunta for any of the pay me Rick stuff...Could have cared less what he wrote on his shoes...

I still don't know why people got so upset with that...

But anyways, like others have said...Dude is gone, he ain't coming back....But it is fun to re-visit...

Second Honeymoon
12-21-2010, 11:42 AM
Dunta was a damn good player and would easily be the best corner on our team....and as for 'but he isn't worth the money wahh wahh wahh', i say this

would it be worth franchising Dunta another year if it meant us making the playoffs. I think so but obviously the ownership and management don't think the playoffs are that big of a deal and priority. Is the playoffs and division title (HOME PLAYOFF GAME!!) worth an extra $10million in payroll? of course it is...so anyone who says it isn't worth it can go screw themselves.

and as for Dunta...he has helped turn the Falcons into a SB contender...first round bye...home field advantage throughout...

but yeah, Dunta wasn't worth it *rolls eyes at the loser mentality that exists*

thunderkyss
12-21-2010, 11:46 AM
Only thing is, they could have franchised Dunta...

& we'd have got the same crap play from here that he played in 2009.

He did not give us 100% in 2009 & anyone who says different is selling something.

Texan4Ever
12-21-2010, 11:50 AM
Dunta was a damn good player and would easily be the best corner on our team....and as for 'but he isn't worth the money wahh wahh wahh', i say this

would it be worth franchising Dunta another year if it meant us making the playoffs. I think so but obviously the ownership and management don't think the playoffs are that big of a deal and priority. Is the playoffs and division title (HOME PLAYOFF GAME!!) worth an extra $10million in payroll? of course it is...so anyone who says it isn't worth it can go screw themselves.

and as for Dunta...he has helped turn the Falcons into a SB contender...first round bye...home field advantage throughout...

but yeah, Dunta wasn't worth it *rolls eyes at the loser mentality that exists*



While I respect what you're saying, Dunta is only one player. I don't think he would make much of an impact as opposing teams would just stop throwing the ball in his direction and instead try to take advantage of Kareem Jackson or any other CB and exploit there weaknesses.

If Dunta was our answer to get into the playoffs and he was the missing piece of the puzzle, you can bet management would have paid him.

Anyways, my hope is that in the off-season Kareem will sit and watch through all his game tapes and come out next season as a much improved player. Having played on a championship team he knows what winnings about and I fully expect him to bounce back from a lackluster rookie season...hopefully.

Rey
12-21-2010, 11:51 AM
& we'd have got the same crap play from here that he played in 2009.

He did not give us 100% in 2009 & anyone who says different is selling something.

Well I disagree....I think he played hard for his whole tenure here, but I don't think he played very well his last year and a half...

He WAS coming off of a major injury...Remember?

Anyways...in the season Dunta got hurt in he was having a fine year...

I think the organization and Dunta could have handled the situation better...I don't think Rick Smith is a perfect GM anymore than I think Dunta is a perfect player...

I honestly think they didn't franchise him again because they didn't want to look foolish...Paying him in two years what they offered him over four or five...

He said he didn't mind being franchised again and that he wouldn't complain about it...They should have done it...

It'd have given us more flexibility during draft time and it would have allowed us to bring a young corner into the fold slowly...And it also would have given us some veteran leadership in the secondary as well as allowed us one more year to evaluate him post injury...

But I think that the organization was foolish and make the wrong decision. JMO.

NitroGSXR
12-21-2010, 11:53 AM
While I respect what you're saying, Dunta is only one player. I don't think he would make much of an impact as opposing teams would just stop throwing the ball in his direction and instead try to take advantage of Kareem Jackson or any other CB and exploit there weaknesses.

If Dunta was our answer to get into the playoffs and he was the missing piece of the puzzle, you can bet management would have paid him.

Anyways, my hope is that in the off-season Kareem will sit and watch through all his game tapes and come out next season as a much improved player. Having played on a championship team he knows what winnings about and I fully expect him to bounce back from a lackluster rookie season...hopefully.
What if he has a sophomoric slump?

Rey
12-21-2010, 11:58 AM
While I respect what you're saying, Dunta is only one player. I don't think he would make much of an impact as opposing teams would just stop throwing the ball in his direction and instead try to take advantage of Kareem Jackson or any other CB and exploit there weaknesses.


I disagree. K-jax wouldn't have been a starter even if we still drafted him...It wouldn've been Dunta and Glover...

Also, Dunta had been the best player in a bad secondary for a long while...

We were never this bad in pass defense.

We have started Dunta and Faggins...Never have we been burned this much through the air....

We have started Dunta and Reeves...Never have we been torched by just about any QB not named Rusty Smith...

Heck even last year when we started Dunta and Quinn we weren't this bad in pass defense.

Rey
12-21-2010, 12:02 PM
What if he has a sophomoric slump?

Exactly...

Especially if this coaching staff is retained...

It's not like we have had a level of consistency in developing defensive talent...

Runner
12-21-2010, 12:13 PM
Yup. And remember Dunta was not the only one having contract issues... Owen and DeMeco stepped up despite Dunta's antics.



That series of negotiations was instructive about Rick Smith, GM.

Each time, a player who had been very good for the Texans wanted to renegotiate his contract. A leak is made to the press about an exorbitant, though unconfirmed, offer made by the Texans that was summarily turned down. Player gets villified by fan base for being greedy and negotiating in the press.* An impasse would be reached and Smith would use his "big stick" of free agency rules to keep the player. The fans celebrate because Smith is tough.

One of Smith's responsibilities is to negotiate contracts to lock up players the team needs to keep long term. The contract needs to be one that both the team and the player will sign. He has failed at that much more than a good GM should. Also, if the contract offers are to be believed, he: A) routinely tries to overpay players and B) can't even get a contract signed that his heavily in the player's favor.

Rick Smith is part of the problem.

*Kudos to the Texans PR department, boo to Houston media hacks, and a "C'mon, think about it" to Houston fans. The player didn't release those details; it came from the Texans because it made them look good and the player look bad.

Rey
12-21-2010, 04:44 PM
That series of negotiations was instructive about Rick Smith, GM.

Each time, a player who had been very good for the Texans wanted to renegotiate his contract. A leak is made to the press about an exorbitant, though unconfirmed, offer made by the Texans that was summarily turned down. Player gets villified by fan base for being greedy and negotiating in the press.* An impasse would be reached and Smith would use his "big stick" of free agency rules to keep the player. The fans celebrate because Smith is tough.

One of Smith's responsibilities is to negotiate contracts to lock up players the team needs to keep long term. The contract needs to be one that both the team and the player will sign. He has failed at that much more than a good GM should. Also, if the contract offers are to be believed, he: A) routinely tries to overpay players and B) can't even get a contract signed that his heavily in the player's favor.

Rick Smith is part of the problem.

*Kudos to the Texans PR department, boo to Houston media hacks, and a "C'mon, think about it" to Houston fans. The player didn't release those details; it came from the Texans because it made them look good and the player look bad.


I think we need to take some of your post, dedicate a thread to them and put a sticky on it....

Excellent post...

Hervoyel
12-21-2010, 04:57 PM
Dunta never hustled his ass off for us and he was never a "leader for us".

Honestly I don't know why people still cry for him. The guy was average at best and regardless of what happens this year..Houston made the right decision. Dunta Robinson is not and was never the answer (not at the price he was asking for).....glad he's gone....infact couldn't be anymore happier that he's gone. Houston not going to the playoffs this year has absolutely nothing to do with Dunta Robinson.


That's not true. I'm not a Dunta fan but I would never say he never hustled for us. He started out busting his ass to play well but I think the losing got to him and the team's culture got to him. In the long run I dont' blame Rick Smith for not keeping him because the Dunta who is hustling for Atlanta was never going to make another appearance here in Houston. I'm positive he had made his mind up about leaving even before the Texans franchised him. He didn't want to be here and every game he played or interview he gave I thought conveyed that message. He said what he was supposed to say and did what he was supposed to do but he did not ever look happy after the 2-14 season in 2005. Not totally, "committed" happy.

thunderkyss
12-21-2010, 09:49 PM
Well I disagree....I think he played hard for his whole tenure here, but I don't think he played very well his last year and a half...

He WAS coming off of a major injury...Remember?

Anyways...in the season Dunta got hurt in he was having a fine year...

I think the organization and Dunta could have handled the situation better...I don't think Rick Smith is a perfect GM anymore than I think Dunta is a perfect player...

I honestly think they didn't franchise him again because they didn't want to look foolish...Paying him in two years what they offered him over four or five...

He said he didn't mind being franchised again and that he wouldn't complain about it...They should have done it...

It'd have given us more flexibility during draft time and it would have allowed us to bring a young corner into the fold slowly...And it also would have given us some veteran leadership in the secondary as well as allowed us one more year to evaluate him post injury...

But I think that the organization was foolish and make the wrong decision. JMO.

Yes I remember the injury. I believe that is why he didn't give the 110% that made him a fan favorite. With no long-term deal, he's not going to risk getting hurt.

Now that he has his deal, he can play with the reckless abandon (hence that hit he put on DeSean Jackson).

Had we franchised him again, he'd just mail it in, waiting for the end of the season.

devo-x
12-21-2010, 10:32 PM
Aaron Glenn = Best CB on Texans

Why didn't the Texans bring in someone like Aaron Glenn to provide veteran leadership in the secondary (and tutor Kareem) ?

TheIronDuke
12-21-2010, 11:04 PM
Aaron Glenn = Best CB on Texans

Why didn't the Texans bring in someone like Aaron Glenn to provide veteran leadership in the secondary (and tutor Kareem) ?

Maybe because he's a f'ing dinosaur and hasn't played since 08?

Kimmy
12-21-2010, 11:10 PM
Maybe because he's a f'ing dinosaur and hasn't played since 08?

Well, they did bring him in for one day.


And then he retired :)

Texan_Bill
12-21-2010, 11:27 PM
Aaron Glenn = Best CB on Texans

Why didn't the Texans bring in someone like Aaron Glenn to provide veteran leadership in the secondary (and tutor Kareem) ?

Agreed!!! I think he would've made a great assistant coach for our defensive backs!!! Maybe not the SH, Dunta Robinson jock strap love suckers who I'm glad moved onto the the Falcons that have the 20th worst pass defense in the League, but for the young guys..... Sure!!!!


Go Dunta!!! :gun:

What a joke!! *Rollling my eyes at Second Honeymoon*

Second Honeymoon
12-21-2010, 11:34 PM
Agreed!!! I think he would've made a great assistant coach for our defensive backs!!! Maybe not the SH, Dunta Robinson jock strap love suckers who I'm glad moved onto the the Falcons that have the 20th worst pass defense in the League, but for the young guys..... Sure!!!!


Go Dunta!!! :gun:

What a joke!! *Rollling my eyes at Second Honeymoon*

don't hate on me because the Falcons addressed a need and the Texans just made an existing need worse by dropping one of the few guys they had that could cover.

and oh yeah, i have always been a Dunta homer....whatever. do I think we should have franchised him again...hell yeah. thought so then and I think its been painfully obvious that losing Dunta was just stupid and cheap...but whatever Bob McNair jock strap love sucker...whatever the hell that means, TB.

but whatever, they sure showed Dunta who was boss....as Dunta got paid, went to a better team, and no longer has to deal with the malaise and loser mentality that persists throughout this franchise.

btw TB, are we gonna throw a parade for 5-11 this year like we did for 9-7. Why not just re-sign Kubiak for the next decade...after all, he is such a good head coach, huh?

and people laughed at me when I said 6-10 was a distinct possibility due to our inactivity in FA, ineffectiveness in the draft, and most importantly. STILL CRAP AT HC.

At least he knows what Gig Em means, and that is probably enough for you.

Mr. White
12-22-2010, 12:02 AM
I would say "I hate to say I told you so" on this one, but I really don't.

The Dunta thing was a huge FUBAR. Seems like Rick Smith is taking all the heat for it (and deserves it,) but I don't know what extent Kubiak, Bush, or Gibbs were involved.

It's pretty obvious they were involved in some capacity. Seems like one of those guys could have thrown the brakes on the "Get Dunta out of Houston" Express if they had any common sense.

That's the problem about having coaches that are so damn smart. "Who the hell needs a proven corner? We're so good at what we do, we can plug a rookie and a 2nd year guy in back there and they'll keep us on the right track!!!"

The guys we had last year weren't All-Century team material, but they're damn sure better than the keystone cops we sent out there this year.

ThaShark316
12-22-2010, 12:30 AM
Real title should be:

Brent Grimes > Dunta

Trail.Blazr
12-22-2010, 07:59 AM
Our rookie CB is worlds better than Dunta was last season. That in itself is going to greatly improve the Texans D. Yes, he will have some growing pains in his rookie season and will give up a few big plays, but Dunta was just horrendous in 2009. Anyone that believes our young DBs and D in general will be worse off without "Mr. Pay Me Rick" didn't watch the games last year. It couldn't get much worse and it appears to be about to get a whole lot better. I notice Kareem running stride for stride with his man along with good awareness of the ball. He looks to be another rock solid pick by the Texans.

Consistently building through years of good draft picks is the only way to produce long term stability of winning results in the NFL. I realize that the Texans have only been a mediocre NFL franchise, at best, since their inception, but I really feel like this team is close to turning the corner into being an upper echelon NFL team that is consistently in the playoffs and competing for the Super Bowl year in and out. I am very hopeful that this is the season in which all of our growing pains pay off. We are still a relatively young team that is getting close to our prime. It will be greatly due in part to 4 years of good drafts including this most recent one and Kareem Jackson as an example.


I haven't read the entire post, but I had to smile at this... I've NEVER heard that one before.

I can't wait to shake the hand of someone who gets that statement right for once!

leebigeztx
12-22-2010, 09:29 AM
They were too close to go backwards on defense especially. They were 13th even after the horrendous start last year and then they come back this yer and get rid of their 2 best corners. They made 0 additions up front and 0 in the backend which equaled the worse secondary in the nfl. To give a better illsutration, look no further than the jets. 9-7 team, made the playoffs, cut faneca and jones. They replaced sheldon brown with cromartie,jones with lt, didn't really replace faneca, added santonio holmes for explosion, and jason taylor for added depth at lb. What did the texans do? Resigned a 3rd wr in walters and the draft. Basically, the jets got cromartie for tate and holmes for one of those 5th rd te's. Tell me who was supposed to be better this year.

thunderkyss
12-22-2010, 07:38 PM
That series of negotiations was instructive about Rick Smith, GM.

Each time, a player who had been very good for the Texans wanted to renegotiate his contract. A leak is made to the press about an exorbitant, though unconfirmed, offer made by the Texans that was summarily turned down. Player gets villified by fan base for being greedy and negotiating in the press.* An impasse would be reached and Smith would use his "big stick" of free agency rules to keep the player. The fans celebrate because Smith is tough.

One of Smith's responsibilities is to negotiate contracts to lock up players the team needs to keep long term. The contract needs to be one that both the team and the player will sign. He has failed at that much more than a good GM should. Also, if the contract offers are to be believed, he: A) routinely tries to overpay players and B) can't even get a contract signed that his heavily in the player's favor.

Rick Smith is part of the problem.

*Kudos to the Texans PR department, boo to Houston media hacks, and a "C'mon, think about it" to Houston fans. The player didn't release those details; it came from the Texans because it made them look good and the player look bad.

Interesting..... & good points.

However, the only people who didn't sign their deal, & got hit with the "big stick" were Dunta (who I'm just as happy to be rid of.... & I was vilifying him way before any contract talks), & Owen (who wishes he had signed the deal when it was offered).

Dunta's problem, was that he thought he was better than he really was. Taking less money to go to Atlanta is "proof" that other NFL teams thought the same thing.

Owen's issue, I think was that ridiculous deal Kellen Winslow got to go to Tampa Bay. Just because TB is reckless doesn't mean we should be (even though it looks like reckless works at the moment).

OD is still here. Looks very close to being the player he was. IF the Texans (whoever that may be in the future) offers Owen that same deal, or similar & he takes it..... we win.

thunderkyss
12-22-2010, 07:50 PM
That's not true. I'm not a Dunta fan but I would never say he never hustled for us. He started out busting his ass to play well but I think the losing got to him and the team's culture got to him. In the long run I dont' blame Rick Smith for not keeping him because the Dunta who is hustling for Atlanta was never going to make another appearance here in Houston.

If that is the case, then Dunta was part of the cancer that has been killing this team. Robaire Smith, Morlon Greenwood, & several of the guys on offense. They weren't trying to win, they were (IMO) doing enough to say it wasn't their fault.

I can see Dunta eventually falling into that kind of thinking.... TJ as well.

But I thought the main reason we didn't see the old Dunta in 2009, was that he didn't want to risk injury again, without a long term deal in place.

So had we franchised him again, we'd wouldn't have got the Dunta people think is playing better in Atlanta (I don't know, because I'm not watching him, how many INTs does he have this year?).

Carr Bombed
12-22-2010, 07:58 PM
:kubepalm:

Why are people still taking about Dunta Robinson...


The guy didn't want to be here and he was turning into a locker room terd......and he's not that good.


Would Dunta make us better....YES, but there are other corners we can pick up that will make us better with half the headache and a helluva lot cheaper. Sobbing over Dunta Robinson is just peeing in the wind. He wouldn't of turned this team into a winner, he would've just made them a less shitty team, it would've been just a step up to mediocrity...which is exactly what Houston was when he was here.

infantrycak
12-22-2010, 08:00 PM
So had we franchised him again, we'd wouldn't have got the Dunta people think is playing better in Atlanta (I don't know, because I'm not watching him, how many INTs does he have this year?).

He has 44 tackles, 5 passes defensed and 0 INT's.

Stats are tricky with CB's but for comparison Jackson has 65 tackles, 10 passes defensed and 2 INT's. Quin has 72 tackles, 14 passes defended and 3 INT's.

JB
12-22-2010, 08:01 PM
He has 44 tackles, 5 passes defensed and 0 INT's.

Stats are tricky with CB's but for comparison Jackson has 65 tackles, 10 passes defensed and 2 INT's.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder...

NitroGSXR
12-22-2010, 08:33 PM
Absence makes the heart grow fonder...
I'm so happy we didn't trade for Nnamdi Asomugha either! 17 tackles, 5 passes defended, and zero interceptions.

That BUM!!!

JB
12-22-2010, 08:40 PM
I'm so happy we didn't trade for Nnamdi Asomugha either! 17 tackles, 5 passes defended, and zero interceptions.

That BUM!!!

You're right, stats don't tell the whole story. And I have not watched any of Atlanta's games this year so I really can't say how he has played. But, I did watch him the previous year every snap multiple times. We know what we had with Dunta... and it pretty much sucked.

BigBull17
12-22-2010, 08:56 PM
I'm so happy we didn't trade for Nnamdi Asomugha either! 17 tackles, 5 passes defended, and zero interceptions.

That BUM!!!

That man could take a nap and teams wouldnt throw at him.

wildroot
12-22-2010, 08:58 PM
A top-shelf CB's stats should be very few tackles and passes defended...if you're covering your guy the ball won't come your way too often.

Dutchrudder
12-22-2010, 09:57 PM
A top-shelf CB's stats should be very few tackles and passes defended...if you're covering your guy the ball won't come your way too often.

If your front 7 suck, then your CBs will be helping tackle the running backs a lot too. It would be nice to know if the tackles came against a run or a pass caught. That might make them somewhat reliable for gauging CBs performance.

JB
12-22-2010, 09:59 PM
If your front 7 suck, then your CBs will be helping tackle the running backs a lot too. It would be nice to know if the tackles came against a run or a pass caught. That might make them somewhat reliable for gauging CBs performance.

And that won't tell the whole story because a lot of cb's make a lot of tackle on dump off passes and screens.