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View Full Version : Evidence: Slaton potentially re-injures neck


barrett
08-16-2010, 05:38 PM
While doing my film study for Texans Bull Blog (http://www.texansbullblog.com/) I noticed what potentially may be breaking news about Steve Slaton's health. I have video screen shots showing a severe collision to his head and neck prior to the fumble on the goal line. You can also see what appears to be him wincing his hand trying to regain feeling followed by favoring his right arm as he walks off the field.

Check it out and let us know what you think.

http://www.texansbullblog.com/evidence-slaton-reinjured-neck-cardinals/news/

dalemurphy
08-16-2010, 06:11 PM
While doing my film study for Texans Bull Blog (http://www.texansbullblog.com/) I noticed what potentially may be breaking news about Steve Slaton's health. I have video screen shots showing a severe collision to his head and neck prior to the fumble on the goal line. You can also see what appears to be him wincing his hand trying to regain feeling followed by favoring his right arm as he walks off the field.

Check it out and let us know what you think.

http://www.texansbullblog.com/evidence-slaton-reinjured-neck-cardinals/news/


Barrett did a great job capturing this with pictures. However, I suggest anyone with the game on DVR should start watching the drive with about 7 minutes to go in the second quarter. His head snapped back severely!

JB
08-16-2010, 06:18 PM
I sure hope you guys are wrong. It could have been a stinger, or maybe a little apprehension. I hope he is smart enough that if he did re-injure it, he does not try to play more with it. That's too scary.

barrett
08-16-2010, 06:30 PM
I've never wanted to be more wrong about anything. It's certainly not ideal to speculate from the TV but there are certainly signs that would suggest something happened.

And Dale is right, watch the video live it really shows how violently his head snaps back.

Thorn
08-16-2010, 07:26 PM
I am going to pretend I never read this thread.

CloakNNNdagger
08-16-2010, 07:31 PM
I've never wanted to be more wrong about anything. It's certainly not ideal to speculate from the TV but there are certainly signs that would suggest something happened.

And Dale is right, watch the video live it really shows how violently his head snaps back.

He looked shaken to me on a couple of plays. There are some "suspicious" injury-associated body positionings that support your premise. What I noticed in that play is there appeared to be helmet-to-helmet contact. But, even more telling than the hard-to-interpret still shots of his arm positions, is his backpedalling/fallback right after contact. Watch how he is trying to shake off his right arm that then immediately thereafter goes hanging limp as he is falling back. Tell me what you see.

dalemurphy
08-16-2010, 07:40 PM
He looked shaken to me on a couple of plays. There are some "suspicious" injury-associated body positionings that support your premise. What I noticed in that play is there appeared to be helmet-to-helmet contact. But, even more telling than the hard-to-interpret still shots of his arm positions, is his backpedalling/fallback right after contact. Watch how he is trying to shake off his right arm that then immediately thereafter goes hanging limp as he is falling back. Tell me what you see.

That's about right... On the initial hit, his head whip-lashed straight backwards (hard!) and pretty far. Then, after the fumble, he was on all fours.. then, he picked his right hand off the ground, shook his fingers, and then rubbed then together. As he stood up, the arm dangled rather motionless by his side as he walked to the sidelines.

THE NFL
08-16-2010, 07:44 PM
Just not good... Not good at all.

Foster better be the real deal. It was going to be running back by committee to a certain degree, now its getting to just running back. the committee is gone.

Fico
08-16-2010, 07:44 PM
I think it was just a stinger.

rmartin65
08-16-2010, 07:45 PM
So, if you guys are right, this is pretty much the end of the road for him huh?

Hopefully we are just overreacting. Not only for his career, but for his life outside of football.

alphajoker
08-16-2010, 07:58 PM
Is this just a subliminal message to get us to click on the google ad for Lumbar Spine Surgery? :foottap:

barrett
08-16-2010, 07:58 PM
I think it was just a stinger.

It certainly could be. I want to make it clear that we are not trying to diagnose him with an injury but rather point out that it's a possibility. I would imagine a stinger would yield similar results but it's certainly plossible that his recently repaired spinal chord could have been effected to create similar simptoms.

So, if you guys are right, this is pretty much the end of the road for him huh?

Hopefully we are just overreacting. Not only for his career, but for his life outside of football.

The end of his career is certainly heavy speculation. If he can't take the hits without suffering from numbness and in turn fumbling it could be a problem as he moves forward though.

dalemurphy
08-16-2010, 07:59 PM
So, if you guys are right, this is pretty much the end of the road for him huh?

Hopefully we are just overreacting. Not only for his career, but for his life outside of football.

We aren't suggesting that. We just noticed what happened and became concerned about it. Doing research on the injury/surgery (click on those links early in the article), there is some real level of risk that could force him to shut it down indefinitely...

barrett
08-16-2010, 07:59 PM
Is this just a subliminal message to get us to click on the google ad for Lumbar Spine Surgery? :foottap:

haha, talk to the robots that are stalking your train of thought about that one.

Hardcore Texan
08-16-2010, 08:16 PM
Not good news at all. :pissed:

GP
08-16-2010, 08:20 PM
While doing my film study for Texans Bull Blog (http://www.texansbullblog.com/) I noticed what potentially may be breaking news about Steve Slaton's health. I have video screen shots showing a severe collision to his head and neck prior to the fumble on the goal line. You can also see what appears to be him wincing his hand trying to regain feeling followed by favoring his right arm as he walks off the field.

Check it out and let us know what you think.

http://www.texansbullblog.com/evidence-slaton-reinjured-neck-cardinals/news/

Which is why he dropped the ball.

He didn't WANT to drop the ball, but the effects of the hit forced him to do so. It's like when you get a charlie horse in your calf and you jerk your leg and contort it out of the pain: You don't WANT to react a certain way, but it just happens. It's involuntary. It happens. On its own.

I mean, I'm no expert here...but at some point you've got to say that things are not normal. All of his actions after the hit lead me to believe that his ability to control his arms and hands is jacked up when he's hit certain ways.

He's busting his ass out there. He's TRYING his hardest to hold onto the ball, but he gets whacked just right and all bets are off.

Man, this is really really potentially BAD for him.

Texanmike02
08-16-2010, 08:30 PM
When I saw the hit the first time I was concerned about the way his arm moved when it popped out. I came here to look for injury news and didn't see any. Either way though, this could be very bad for our guy.

Mike

awtysst
08-16-2010, 08:35 PM
Bring on Jeremiah Johnson to backup Foster. If Slaton cannot go, put Henry as the #3. We may need to scour the PS and grab another back.

If Slaton is potentially hurt, I would like to remind everyone that last year Doc CND, was saying that he was not sure Slaton would be completely healed this fast and if he was, he may have a chance of reinjury (or something to that effect). So give the man credit for obviously being very VERY good at his job!

El Tejano
08-16-2010, 08:36 PM
He also just holds on to the ball with one arm.

GP
08-16-2010, 08:54 PM
He also just holds on to the ball with one arm.

IIRC, he was covering it up and got popped. Then I remember seeing his body kind of go rigid and his arms opened up.

It makes total sense now. He didn't drop the ball because his arms got hit. He dropped the ball because of the chain reaction: Hit to head, spinal area reacts, then it travels down to the arms. Then all the visible reactions Slaton exhibited after the play ended.

If this is all true, then they can't let him continue out there. Just my opinion, which obviously is not a professional one. I just have a feeling that an isolated play can tell a lot, based on prior known problems. The guy isn't being careless.

Unless his actions are a cop-out to escape taking responsibility for the fumble. Sort of an "Oh crap, I better shake my head, stumble a bit, and act like my hands are tingling..." I am not saying he would do that, but it's gotta' be one or the other IMO.

kiwitexansfan
08-16-2010, 08:56 PM
So much for Slate and Tate....

Tailgate
08-16-2010, 09:24 PM
Please let this thread die quickly.

Texanmike02
08-16-2010, 09:37 PM
Please let this thread die quickly.

You just resurrected it.

Mike

The1ApplePie
08-16-2010, 09:44 PM
So, our last good RB is injured now?

Awesome

Porky
08-16-2010, 09:44 PM
If he had run lower he might have been ok. He ran very upright and tall. I think maybe he had thoughts of jumping the pile. As much as Spencer Tillman can be annoying with all of his slogans, he's right. Low man wins, and I have no idea why a 5' 10" RB would want to run so upright into a pile. Makes no sense.

dalemurphy
08-16-2010, 09:53 PM
If he had run lower he might have been ok. He ran very upright and tall. I think maybe he had thoughts of jumping the pile. As much as Spencer Tillman can be annoying with all of his slogans, he's right. Low man wins, and I have no idea why a 5' 10" RB would want to run so upright into a pile. Makes no sense.

well, if his shoulder and neck aren't right, perhaps he runs upright to protect them from direct impact. That's my concern and thought. I think that's why he started running upright last season and why it happened again Saturday night.

qman_tx
08-16-2010, 09:53 PM
Look at this dirty play by Cortland Finnegan on Slaton last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AusEE6SGjRU

is that the injury?

GuerillaBlack
08-16-2010, 09:54 PM
Call up Moats? Is he still out there?

J_R
08-16-2010, 09:55 PM
Call up Moats? Is he still out there?

Minnesota

brakos82
08-16-2010, 09:57 PM
I am going to pretend I never read this thread.

I'm with the old fart. And we say to the thread Kiss My Ass LOL

Tailgate
08-16-2010, 10:07 PM
You just resurrected it.

Mike

No, you did.

Texan_Bill
08-16-2010, 10:27 PM
I'm with the old fart. And we say to the thread Kiss My Ass LOL

Kiss my ass!!

What up with the old fart??? ****er!!

CloakNNNdagger
08-16-2010, 10:28 PM
well, if his shoulder and neck aren't right, perhaps he runs upright to protect them from direct impact. That's my concern and thought. I think that's why he started running upright last season and why it happened again Saturday night.

If his shoulder is not right now (as was the problem before) it is most likely due to continued symptoms of recovery related to the fusion, or another level of unaddressed disc bulging is symptomatic. With 1 level fusion, few orthopods totally recommend nixing return to contact sports, but will tend to encourage about 1 year. With 2-3 levels most will feel uncomfortable, and with 4 no way.

No matter what, running upright puts an RB at great risk for snapping of the neck. And certainly running backwards as he likes to do (an which he did in this game) leaves him open to that dreaded whiplash injury which can easily result in additional disc problems. If the grafted segment holds, there is that much more torque load that the other segments are exposed to, thus cervical disc injury. Keep remembering that Slaton's shoulder and hand problems were always caused by nerve compression related to his disc problem. He was never noted to have an independent shoulder pathology.

Last year, he most likely ran upright because with a cervical disc, extension of the neck reproduces/exaccerbates the nerve compression symptoms of the disc problem (positive Spurling test). If you run low, you have to extend your neck to see where you are going .

In essentially all of his hits Saturday night, his necked snapped back (in hyperextension). I'm surprised that he has not been fitted with a Cowboy collar, which has been proven in studies to significantly limit cervical hyperextension.

Dutchrudder
08-16-2010, 10:31 PM
Well, I think it's time for Kubiak to pull Foster out of the remaining preseason games. No point in risking our last decent RB on meaningless games.

TheIronDuke
08-16-2010, 11:02 PM
Call up Moats? Is he still out there?

I think Chris Brown is still available....

:roast:

JB
08-16-2010, 11:03 PM
I think Chris Brown is still available....

:roast:

Shame on You!!!

steelbtexan
08-16-2010, 11:05 PM
If his shoulder is not right now (as was the problem before) it is most likely due to continued symptoms of recovery related to the fusion, or another level of unaddressed disc bulging is symptomatic. With 1 level fusion, few orthopods totally recommend nixing return to contact sports, but will tend to encourage about 1 year. With 2-3 levels most will feel uncomfortable, and with 4 no way.

No matter what, running upright puts an RB at great risk for snapping of the neck. And certainly running backwards as he likes to do (an which he did in this game) leaves him open to that dreaded whiplash injury which can easily result in additional disc problems. If the grafted segment holds, there is that much more torque load that the other segments are exposed to, thus cervical disc injury. Keep remembering that Slaton's shoulder and hand problems were always caused by nerve compression related to his disc problem. He was never noted to have an independent shoulder pathology.

Last year, he most likely ran upright because with a cervical disc, extension of the neck reproduces/exaccerbates the nerve compression symptoms of the disc problem (positive Spurling test). If you run low, you have to extend your neck to see where you are going .

In essentially all of his hits Saturday night, his necked snapped back (in hyperextension). I'm surprised that he has not been fitted with a Cowboy collar, which has been proven in studies to significantly limit cervical hyperextension.

Thanks for the info

With regards to the cowboy collar, you have to remember we're talking about the Texans medical/training staff.

Brisco_County
08-16-2010, 11:13 PM
I would think that the fused vertebrae reduces the natural shock absorption of the neck, which increases the chances of stingers or any kind of nerve related complication. This is what worried me the most about Slaton playing with fused vertebrae, along with limited range of motion while turning his head to catch a ball.

silvrhand
08-16-2010, 11:38 PM
OR he could just be a fumbler like he was in college..

IIRC, he was covering it up and got popped. Then I remember seeing his body kind of go rigid and his arms opened up.

It makes total sense now. He didn't drop the ball because his arms got hit. He dropped the ball because of the chain reaction: Hit to head, spinal area reacts, then it travels down to the arms. Then all the visible reactions Slaton exhibited after the play ended.

GP
08-16-2010, 11:46 PM
OR he could just be a fumbler like he was in college..

Probably a combination of both.

Fumbling is bad. Fumbling at the goal line is a crime.

I don't see how he rises above our 3rd or maybe even 4th option now.

Brisco_County
08-16-2010, 11:47 PM
Probably a combination of both.

Fumbling is bad. Fumbling at the goal line is a crime.

I don't see how he rises above our 3rd or maybe even 4th option now.

Maybe just a 3rd down back with no goal line carries.

silvrhand
08-16-2010, 11:55 PM
Probably a combination of both.

Fumbling is bad. Fumbling at the goal line is a crime.

I don't see how he rises above our 3rd or maybe even 4th option now.

OR he could just be a fumbler why are people making excuses, if he's hurt he's done and he'll retire. If not he's a fumbler and he neext to fix it.

GP
08-17-2010, 12:26 AM
Maybe just a 3rd down back with no goal line carries.

Which you then think "Well why in the heck is he even on the roster?"

I mean, if you can only be out there for 3rd downs and you can NOT be trusted when near the end zone, then doesn't that mean you pretty much shouldn't be on the roster at all? Injury or not, it presents a real problem with regards to roster spots and overall usefulness.

He can't even withstand the contact, IMO. Something real (injury) or imaginary (mental lapses) has got this guy in trouble. What if we had lost a game by 5 points and Slaton fumbles that goal line carry like he did vs. Cards pre-season this past weekend: Oops? Sorry 'bout that, guys...my bad?

Sheesh.

Brisco_County
08-17-2010, 12:49 AM
Which you then think "Well why in the heck is he even on the roster?"

A third down back isn't the same as a goal line or short yardage back. Foster's size and power would be better for that anyway.

Slaton is still a weapon for receiving out of the backfield, and he can pick up blocks quite well for his size. He'd be better off not rushing between tackles anymore. Basically we'd be using him like Reggie Bush, but with better blocking.

Case in point, go to 1:38 and 3:53: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa5YlgOBwDk

CloakNNNdagger
08-17-2010, 07:59 AM
I would think that the fused vertebrae reduces the natural shock absorption of the neck, which increases the chances of stingers or any kind of nerve related complication. This is what worried me the most about Slaton playing with fused vertebrae, along with limited range of motion while turning his head to catch a ball.

With a one-level cervical fusion at C5, there should be no noticeable loss of range of motion IF the graft is well healed and the neck fully rehabbed. If the above criteria have been met, and there is still decrease in range of motion, then you start worrying that there may be a compression problem with adjacent non-fused cervical segment(s). There's also the possibility of long term/permanent postoperative pain causing the player to "protect" his neck by avoiding certain movement.

281
08-17-2010, 02:08 PM
I think Chris Brown is still available....

:roast:

Thankfully he's not... he's in the UFL where he belongs. I think he's playing with Ahman Green on the Omaha Nighthawks... I could be wrong though. haha.

Tailgate
08-17-2010, 02:24 PM
Which you then think "Well why in the heck is he even on the roster?"

I mean, if you can only be out there for 3rd downs and you can NOT be trusted when near the end zone, then doesn't that mean you pretty much shouldn't be on the roster at all? Injury or not, it presents a real problem with regards to roster spots and overall usefulness.

He can't even withstand the contact, IMO. Something real (injury) or imaginary (mental lapses) has got this guy in trouble. What if we had lost a game by 5 points and Slaton fumbles that goal line carry like he did vs. Cards pre-season this past weekend: Oops? Sorry 'bout that, guys...my bad?

Sheesh.

Slaton was drafted as mainly a 3rd down change of pace back in the first place. I think pretty much everyone was surprised at the way he handled the main load his rookie season. Despite the load, we STILL needed a larger back for short yardage situations. So, with Foster becoming that guy (Tate eventually), Slaton slips back to his projected role which should also mean he takes less hits overall.

Until I hear SOMETHING from the Texans regarding a Slaton concern regarding injury its all SPECULATION and not a concern to me. Maybe he just fumbled the dang ball in a goal line carry (which he wont be getting in the future)and thats it?

HJam72
08-17-2010, 02:26 PM
I think he broke his neck completely apart. Dude's got balls walkin' off like that.

Blake
08-17-2010, 02:29 PM
Well here is Slaton at Monday's practice.

http://images.chron.com/photos/2010/08/16/22907889/600xPopupGallery.jpg

Blake
08-17-2010, 02:31 PM
His twitter feed.

Stay with me fans we all have are bad days an dark nights. When i get through this it'll be worth it. 10:53 PM Aug 14th (http://twitter.com/Steve20Slaton/status/21202204886)

b0ng
08-17-2010, 02:37 PM
While I do believe it's possible Slaton re-injured himself, I have to think the Texans staff (Especially Chick Harris) is looking for that and are going to take carries away from him if he's still got fumbling problems. Be that due to injury or not, I can't believe that they didn't check him out after his first contact with opposing teams.

ChampionTexan
08-17-2010, 03:00 PM
Thankfully he's not... he's in the UFL where he belongs. I think he's playing with Ahman Green on the Omaha Nighthawks... I could be wrong though. haha.

Actually, Jeff Garcia is now now in the UFL also, and like Mssrs. Brown and Green, he too is a Nighthawk.

Big Lou
08-17-2010, 03:10 PM
While doing my film study for Texans Bull Blog (http://www.texansbullblog.com/) I noticed what potentially may be breaking news about Steve Slaton's health. I have video screen shots showing a severe collision to his head and neck prior to the fumble on the goal line. You can also see what appears to be him wincing his hand trying to regain feeling followed by favoring his right arm as he walks off the field.

Check it out and let us know what you think.

http://www.texansbullblog.com/evidence-slaton-reinjured-neck-cardinals/news/

Man you should have been in the Warren Commision. You went Zapruder on our ass!!!!!!

barrett
08-17-2010, 03:59 PM
Man you should have been in the Warren Commision. You went Zapruder on our ass!!!!!!

Thank you?

Just image what it'll be like once we get the video working on the site. Our theme at the blog is going to be centered around details. Sometimes a guy 7 yards from the play can have a major impact on it's outcome.

Sometimes a hit a guy takes in the first preseason game can impact his season or even his career. Just ask Ben Tate.

dalemurphy
08-18-2010, 10:19 AM
Read Solomon's column: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7157862.html

The coaches are theorizing as to why Slaton began running upright as the game progressed...

Well, that has been our argument. He was hurt with 6:33 left in the second quarter and began protecting/favoring his shoulder/neck. Speaking with CND, he concurs that a person would compensate discomfort/weakness, pain in that area of the neck by attempting to keep his head and neck vertically aligned. We think that is what happened. He aggravated his neck injury and began running upright as a result. Solomon's article, I believe, supports that conclusion.

Texas T
08-18-2010, 10:21 AM
Read Solomon's column: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7157862.html

The coaches are theorizing as to why Slaton began running upright as the game progressed...

Well, that has been our argument. He was hurt with 6:33 left in the second quarter and began protecting/favoring his shoulder/neck. Speaking with CND, he concurs that a person would compensate discomfort/weakness, pain in that area of the neck by attempting to keep his head and neck vertically aligned. We think that is what happened. He aggravated his neck injury and began running upright as a result. Solomon's article, I believe, supports that conclusion.

I wonder if this scares him as much as it does me??
I hope so because I'd hate to see him perminately hurt himself trying to prove he can do it.
If this is the cause of the fumbling then maybe he just needs more time (I'm pretty sure that someone already said this).

P.S. 100 posts...

Big Lou
08-18-2010, 10:28 AM
Thank you?

Just image what it'll be like once we get the video working on the site. Our theme at the blog is going to be centered around details. Sometimes a guy 7 yards from the play can have a major impact on it's outcome.

Sometimes a hit a guy takes in the first preseason game can impact his season or even his career. Just ask Ben Tate.

I definately meant that as a compliment. I was reffering to your attention to detail!

dalemurphy
08-18-2010, 10:32 AM
I definately meant that as a compliment. I was reffering to your attention to detail!

Big Lou, Barrett is a maniac with detail. It's amazing actually.

We were watching the Hall of Fame game together, and he was going on and on about the different brands of helmets each team was wearing, whether they were the "new" helmets or not, etc.... It was hysterical. He's almost like a superhero. But, he ain't built like one!

Tailgate
08-18-2010, 10:33 AM
Question. If he did re injure or aggravate....why we have not heard about any pf this from the Texans or any other source?

GP
08-18-2010, 10:54 AM
Question. If he did re injure or aggravate....why we have not heard about any pf this from the Texans or any other source?

Are you serious?

The Texans do NOT give out all the details. They tell you what they want you to know, which is not always the whole truth.

This is one of the main things about the organization: Vague injury reports.

I am not saying they won't divulge information, but often you are not getting the whole story. Which, in a way, is good business. Sucks for the fans, but it also sucks for opposing teams and their prying eyes.

Just because we're not hearing anything about Slaton does not mean that all is well. I trust my own eyes, and the eyes of others (the ones on here who watched and caught what they deem to be a noteworthy moment).

I'm not saying that the guy is doomed forever and he'll be retiring this week. I'm saying that this is serious stuff on two levels: (1) Slaton could really mess up his quality of life, forever, if he's not ready to truly be back from the injury, and (2) We can't risk him nor this team's chances by playing him if he's in need of resting until a proper return date.

Depth problems be damned, IMO. This affects a man's health over the course of his life, and it affects our team's chances. If depth is a reason to keep him out there, then woe to Steve Slaton and woe to the powers-that-be who are POSSIBLY ignoring a situation with his neck.

My hope is that they are going to test him out in practice this week and give him physical contact as much as possible, to see what happens afterwards. Preseason should be used to see how he holds up, but it seems he got stung a bit in this past game. Game 1.

The1ApplePie
08-18-2010, 11:01 AM
(Depending on what you thought of Dominick Davis), Slaton is the best RB in the Texans short history.

Sometimes it amazes me with the level of hate the guy has gotten in less than a year.

Tailgate
08-18-2010, 11:39 AM
Are you serious?

The Texans do NOT give out all the details. They tell you what they want you to know, which is not always the whole truth.

This is one of the main things about the organization: Vague injury reports.

I am not saying they won't divulge information, but often you are not getting the whole story. Which, in a way, is good business. Sucks for the fans, but it also sucks for opposing teams and their prying eyes.

Just because we're not hearing anything about Slaton does not mean that all is well. I trust my own eyes, and the eyes of others (the ones on here who watched and caught what they deem to be a noteworthy moment).

I'm not saying that the guy is doomed forever and he'll be retiring this week. I'm saying that this is serious stuff on two levels: (1) Slaton could really mess up his quality of life, forever, if he's not ready to truly be back from the injury, and (2) We can't risk him nor this team's chances by playing him if he's in need of resting until a proper return date.

Depth problems be damned, IMO. This affects a man's health over the course of his life, and it affects our team's chances. If depth is a reason to keep him out there, then woe to Steve Slaton and woe to the powers-that-be who are POSSIBLY ignoring a situation with his neck.

My hope is that they are going to test him out in practice this week and give him physical contact as much as possible, to see what happens afterwards. Preseason should be used to see how he holds up, but it seems he got stung a bit in this past game. Game 1.

Absolutely.... in the REGULAR SEASON. Why in the world would they hold anything back right now? The Colts are weeks away. You hear every day in the Kubiak quotes from camp about this player or that with a nagging injury, or being held out of practice,etc,etc... they have no reason to hide anything right now.

And your comment goes both ways...... just because we aren't hearing anything doesn't mean that all ISN'T WELL either.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2010, 11:58 AM
Absolutely.... in the REGULAR SEASON. Why in the world would they hold anything back right now? The Colts are weeks away. You hear every day in the Kubiak quotes from camp about this player or that with a nagging injury, or being held out of practice,etc,etc... they have no reason to hide anything right now.

They probably would not want to put a bullseye on his head, while they "test him." Remember, if something IS going on with his neck (and there seems to be), this is not a typical nagging injury problem, this is problem that would be related to a surgery............a surgery that many surgeons would deem to be too "fresh" to expose to repeated violent contact.

And your comment goes both ways...... just because we aren't hearing anything doesn't mean that all ISN'T WELL either

Possibly so. But previous team history would make one hesitate to whole hardily embrace the latter conclusion.

Tailgate
08-18-2010, 12:29 PM
They probably would not want to put a bullseye on his head, while they "test him." Remember, if something IS going on with his neck (and there seems to be), this is not a typical nagging injury problem, this is problem that would be related to a surgery............a surgery that many surgeons would deem to be too "fresh" to expose to repeated violent contact.

Hmmm.... a bulls eye? Pure speculation and very debatable.

Possibly so. But previous team history would make one hesitate to whole hardily embrace the latter conclusion.

Again, I have zero recollection of this team holding back injury news this time of year. You can go and see injury updates/talk almost every day in the quotes. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that they would hold back either, unless you subscribe to the "bulls eye" theory. During the season? Of course. Why? For game planning purposes, making the team work extra for preparation,etc. None of that is relative now.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2010, 12:30 PM
Just an FYI.

The typical minimal criteria for return to play for cervical neck fusion:

A stable 1-level fusion in a patient who is asymptomatic, neurologically normal, and pain-free and has a normal range of cervical motion


A relative postoperative contraindication to continue to play is ≥ 3 prior episodes of stinger/burner. The patient must have full return to baseline cervical range of motion and neurological status without an increase in baseline neck discomfort.

That is why it is of critical importance that an honest assessment of Slaton's condition by the medical team and honest self-assessment by Slaton be made.

JB
08-18-2010, 12:33 PM
Just an FYI.

The typical minimal criteria for return to play for cervical neck fusion:

A stable 1-level fusion in a patient who is asymptomatic, neurologically normal, and pain-free and has a normal range of cervical motion


A relative postoperative contraindication to continue to play is ≥ 3 prior episodes of stinger/burner. The patient must have full return to baseline cervical range of motion and neurological status without an increase in baseline neck discomfort.

That is why it is of critical importance that an honest assessment of Slaton's condition by the medical team and honest self-assessment by Slaton be made.

This is probably the biggest question I have. Can the Texans staff truly make a sound assesment without regards to the teams wishes. And will Slaton really let someone know if he is still feeling discomfort.

Brisco_County
08-18-2010, 12:57 PM
Just an FYI.

The typical minimal criteria for return to play for cervical neck fusion:

A stable 1-level fusion in a patient who is asymptomatic, neurologically normal, and pain-free and has a normal range of cervical motion


A relative postoperative contraindication to continue to play is ≥ 3 prior episodes of stinger/burner. The patient must have full return to baseline cervical range of motion and neurological status without an increase in baseline neck discomfort.

That is why it is of critical importance that an honest assessment of Slaton's condition by the medical team and honest self-assessment by Slaton be made.

If Slaton is fighting for his depth position, I don't think he can be counted on for truely honest feedback.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2010, 01:57 PM
This is probably the biggest question I have. Can the Texans staff truly make a sound assesment without regards to the teams wishes. And will Slaton really let someone know if he is still feeling discomfort.

If Slaton is fighting for his depth position, I don't think he can be counted on for truely honest feedback.

MIGHT ILLUSTRATE THE CONCERN (http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mbc/lowres/mbcn278l.jpg)

GP
08-18-2010, 01:58 PM
Tailgate:

JB and Brisco are echoing what I am saying.

This is the ugly side of pro sports. It's the side that we see when a guy (Slaton) feels he needs to suck it up and get back out there, and coaches are more than welcome to see that sort of determination.

Kubiak is in a make-or-break year. Our running game was atrocious last year, and Slaton was part of that problem (fumbles, being benched, not able to be trusted, and then he gets injured). Flash-forward to today, and you have a recipe for all sorts of people to do the wrong things for what they feel is the right reasons: Slaton wanting to get back in there, and the coaches NEEDING him to get back in there.

The loss os Ben Tate, I am afraid, has made this situation even worse for Slaton. I think in this day and age, players are treated less like members of a TEAM and more like horses who snap a leg during the Sunday races. And we know what happens to lame horses (put out to pasture or shot on the premises).

The Titans just waived the RB of theirs who got hurt. Waived him.

Do you think the Texans powers-that-be are excited or bent toward letting Slaton sit for the year and see what he has next year? I doubt it. This business of pro football is complex. Do I feel Kubiak was sincere when he consoled Ben Tate? Absolutely. But don't think that everyone (Ben Tate and Gary Kubiak included) doesn't know that there is another draft coming up in April 2011 (If there's a 2011 season to be had, actually).

People fudge the important things all the time. The highway trucker who cooks the books by not stopping and resting the amount of time he's required to rest, the physician who never sees his family because he is overly-dedicated to his profession, and the NFL player who says he's fine when he's anything but.

All we're saying here is that Steve Slaton IS a football player, but he's a person first. I remember the agony, as a fan, of watching Domanick Davis get retired way too early. We were not told the whole story. Gary Kubiak even talked to Domanick way way way late in the year, very close to camp and perhaps it was even during camp, to see if he was going to consider making a comeback or not. He chose not to. But the pressure was there, even if it was only inferred/perceived pressure.

Like I said, and CND (who is a physician and has seen a lot in his field of expertise) has said, we don't always get the whole truth. There's way too many angles being played.

I just hope the pressure is not so great that a man's quality of life (and our team's chances at ultimate success) is threatened. Let's hope we've got enough in Foster-Johnson-Henry that allows Slaton the time he deserves.

It's a fine line between doing everything to win and doing so much that you end up realizing what it did to people in the process. It's hard to sit here and say "I want people treated properly" when we also want to see our guys do damage to the opponents standing in our way. Our need for success clouds our reasoning sometimes. Necks/spines are just sooooo valuable. You can have a certain quality of life even if your toe is jacked up and hurts. If your neck is whacked? Not so much. It's absorbing so much punishment just from normal, every day functions of the rest of the body (walking and running, or sitting in bad positions for long periods of time), let alone to be traumatized and THEN used in normal, every day ways.

I just trust that people in positions of leadership and influence will do the right things for Steve Slaton. And that Steve would do the right things for himself.

JB
08-18-2010, 01:58 PM
MIGHT ILLUSTRATE THE CONCERN (http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mbc/lowres/mbcn278l.jpg)

:lol:

eriadoc
08-18-2010, 02:24 PM
(Depending on what you thought of Dominick Davis), Slaton is the best RB in the Texans short history.

Sometimes it amazes me with the level of hate the guy has gotten in less than a year.

1.) Dom Davis is still the best RB the Texans ever had, and it's not even close. Just take a look at the seasons each had.

2.) The "level of hate" the guy has gotten is due to exactly one thing - his own inability to hold on to the damn ball. If the guy runs for 4ypc and doesn't fumble (exceedingly), he'll be my favorite RB the Texans have. Until then, he's a butterfingered scat back.

Tailgate
08-18-2010, 02:26 PM
Tailgate:

JB and Brisco are echoing what I am saying.

This is the ugly side of pro sports. It's the side that we see when a guy (Slaton) feels he needs to suck it up and get back out there, and coaches are more than welcome to see that sort of determination.

Kubiak is in a make-or-break year. Our running game was atrocious last year, and Slaton was part of that problem (fumbles, being benched, not able to be trusted, and then he gets injured). Flash-forward to today, and you have a recipe for all sorts of people to do the wrong things for what they feel is the right reasons: Slaton wanting to get back in there, and the coaches NEEDING him to get back in there.

The loss os Ben Tate, I am afraid, has made this situation even worse for Slaton. I think in this day and age, players are treated less like members of a TEAM and more like horses who snap a leg during the Sunday races. And we know what happens to lame horses (put out to pasture or shot on the premises).

The Titans just waived the RB of theirs who got hurt. Waived him.

Do you think the Texans powers-that-be are excited or bent toward letting Slaton sit for the year and see what he has next year? I doubt it. This business of pro football is complex. Do I feel Kubiak was sincere when he consoled Ben Tate? Absolutely. But don't think that everyone (Ben Tate and Gary Kubiak included) doesn't know that there is another draft coming up in April 2011 (If there's a 2011 season to be had, actually).

People fudge the important things all the time. The highway trucker who cooks the books by not stopping and resting the amount of time he's required to rest, the physician who never sees his family because he is overly-dedicated to his profession, and the NFL player who says he's fine when he's anything but.

All we're saying here is that Steve Slaton IS a football player, but he's a person first. I remember the agony, as a fan, of watching Domanick Davis get retired way too early. We were not told the whole story. Gary Kubiak even talked to Domanick way way way late in the year, very close to camp and perhaps it was even during camp, to see if he was going to consider making a comeback or not. He chose not to. But the pressure was there, even if it was only inferred/perceived pressure.

Like I said, and CND (who is a physician and has seen a lot in his field of expertise) has said, we don't always get the whole truth. There's way too many angles being played.

I just hope the pressure is not so great that a man's quality of life (and our team's chances at ultimate success) is threatened. Let's hope we've got enough in Foster-Johnson-Henry that allows Slaton the time he deserves.

It's a fine line between doing everything to win and doing so much that you end up realizing what it did to people in the process. It's hard to sit here and say "I want people treated properly" when we also want to see our guys do damage to the opponents standing in our way. Our need for success clouds our reasoning sometimes. Necks/spines are just sooooo valuable. You can have a certain quality of life even if your toe is jacked up and hurts. If your neck is whacked? Not so much. It's absorbing so much punishment just from normal, every day functions of the rest of the body (walking and running, or sitting in bad positions for long periods of time), let alone to be traumatized and THEN used in normal, every day ways.

I just trust that people in positions of leadership and influence will do the right things for Steve Slaton. And that Steve would do the right things for himself.

And I am saying you are connecting a lot of your own dots here to get to a point of discussion where you are talking about quality of life being threatened,etc. To where it sounds like you and others almost are certain of the actual situation. When we haven't heard a lick about ANYTHING from the organization other than he is healthy and ready to go. With the only reason being said so far as to why they are holding new injury or aggravation of the injury,etc...info back is due to them not wanting a bulls eye on his back. Maybe I am wrong, and maybe that is the case. But I have my money on that we see Slaton in Saturdays game just fine and healthy and working on his game like everyone else.

infantrycak
08-18-2010, 02:37 PM
1.) Dom Davis is still the best RB the Texans ever had, and it's not even close. Just take a look at the seasons each had.

Interesting and I really liked DD and defended him a bunch on the MB. He was a much harder interior runner but with much less breakaway ability. Compare their best seasons and I think you have a real tight contest. Overall since SS has only had one good season it has to go to DD but on talent that could change if SS gets back to rookie form and health.

eriadoc
08-18-2010, 02:50 PM
Interesting and I really liked DD and defended him a bunch on the MB. He was a much harder interior runner but with much less breakaway ability. Compare their best seasons and I think you have a real tight contest. Overall since SS has only had one good season it has to go to DD but on talent that could change if SS gets back to rookie form and health.

That pretty much sums it up right there. I'd love to have a combo of a guy like DD and a guy like rookie year Slaton. But if I have to choose only one, I'm taking the guy who extends drives reliably, and that's DD.

infantrycak
08-18-2010, 03:00 PM
That pretty much sums it up right there. I'd love to have a combo of a guy like DD and a guy like rookie year Slaton. But if I have to choose only one, I'm taking the guy who extends drives reliably, and that's DD.

True. Part of why I hate the "he was drafted to be a 3rd down back" and "we need a big back for the goal line" discussions is how good DD was at interior running. He had great short space vision and agility and a strong low leg press to finish runs such that he almost always was going to get positive yardage. And just because you are drafted with one thought in mind doesn't mean you can't prove yourself to be something else. Tom Brady wasn't drafted to be a franchise QB. DD and SS in different ways proved (at least before injury) they were more than "just a 3rd down RB."

thunderkyss
08-18-2010, 03:16 PM
(Depending on what you thought of Dominick Davis), Slaton is the best RB in the Texans short history.

Sometimes it amazes me with the level of hate the guy has gotten in less than a year.

I love DD. Biggest DD fan, right here.


But there is no doubt that Slaton is the best RB we've had play a regular season game.

He hasn't been as productive as DD, but that is a different story.

JB
08-18-2010, 03:18 PM
I love DD. Biggest DD fan, right here.


But there is no doubt that Slaton is the best RB we've had play a regular season game.

He hasn't been as productive as DD, but that is a different story.

:confused:

Less productive = better?

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2010, 03:20 PM
MIGHT ILLUSTRATE THE CONCERN (http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mbc/lowres/mbcn278l.jpg)

"You must spread rep..."

thunderkyss
08-18-2010, 03:21 PM
True. Part of why I hate the "he was drafted to be a 3rd down back" and "we need a big back for the goal line" discussions is how good DD was at interior running. He had great short space vision and agility and a strong low leg press to finish runs such that he almost always was going to get positive yardage. And just because you are drafted with one thought in mind doesn't mean you can't prove yourself to be something else.

And though he was small, Slaton was a tough little runner. I was impressed that he did get extra yardage at times. Just being able to stand up long enough for Winston to get behind him and push was impressive.

Still not DD, but definitely more than a 3rd down change of pace back.

gtexan02
08-18-2010, 03:24 PM
:confused:

Less productive = better?

I think he meant that SS in his rookie season was the best RB we've ever had in a Texans uniform

GP
08-18-2010, 03:28 PM
And I am saying you are connecting a lot of your own dots here to get to a point of discussion where you are talking about quality of life being threatened,etc. To where it sounds like you and others almost are certain of the actual situation. When we haven't heard a lick about ANYTHING from the organization other than he is healthy and ready to go. With the only reason being said so far as to why they are holding new injury or aggravation of the injury,etc...info back is due to them not wanting a bulls eye on his back. Maybe I am wrong, and maybe that is the case. But I have my money on that we see Slaton in Saturdays game just fine and healthy and working on his game like everyone else.

Hey, I'm only presenting one possibility. You seem to be of the opinion (unless I am missing something here) that my "dot connecting" can't possibly be true.

Face it, it's a whole bunch of stuff strung together that causes us fans to not know what's going on. At the end of the day, you're going to get shoveled whatever they want you to know.

Players are going to shovel it to coaches. Coaches shovel it to players. Teams shovel it to fans. Etc., etc.

All I am saying is based on what Slaton had happen to him, and what we saw when he was popped pretty good, makes for an interesting set of scenarios and circumstances from here on out.

Not placing blame on the team, the coaches, or the player. It's all a part of the system, IMO. Everyone has jobs riding upon production-on-the-field. if you think that's not playing a role in anything, then so be it.

Do you think, honestly, that we're (a) getting the whole story on injuries and/or (b) that only once the regular season begins do teams play the hide-or-obscure-the-injury game? This is 365/24/7. NFL coaches and management have zero offseason. It's year-round. And despite all the grief I give Kubiak and Rick Smith on roster decisions, I'll give 'em this: They don't let anyone into their circle of trust when it comes to injury reports and other news that affects their plan. Even the Houston media have such watered-down access compared to the Capers-Casserly era. It's night-and-day, and I think everyone on here agrees with that.

We were all shocked around here when McNair-Kubiak-Smith went on record recently and said we weren't going to pursue players such as an Ahman Green-type-of-player who is older and on the downward slope of their career(s). That was a pretty big chunk of information to divulge, in comparison to what normally happens. Oh sure, they might say a thing or there that's of no consequence, which makes McLain salivate like it's 20-for-1 day at Weinerschnitzel, but that's just the point: The media are so closed-off from REAL material that they often invent stuff themselves (see Richard Justice, for an example of this) or they blow up minor stuff (McClain's area of expertise).

We learn more about this team from people on here who have connections to the Texans than we do from the media. A person has a friend, who knows a guy, who is friends with a texans player-sort-of-thing.

Tihs regime is tight-fisted when it comes to divulging information of consequence. And when they give you the news, it's a situation of it not being able to affect the plans of the team: Ben Tate done for the year. With the way players use Twitter, Kubiak don't gotta' say squat anymore.

GP
08-18-2010, 03:43 PM
And though he was small, Slaton was a tough little runner. I was impressed that he did get extra yardage at times. Just being able to stand up long enough for Winston to get behind him and push was impressive.

Still not DD, but definitely more than a 3rd down change of pace back.

And isn't it interesting that Davis had his knee cartilage ground to powder and Slaton has neck issues.

Davis used those legs to push and shove for extra yards.

Slaton likely used his neck and upper body to grind out extra yards: Sticking it into a pile and pushing like a battering ram with it. That's why that helmet was always popping off--It was loose, and players were grabbing his neck and yanking on it to get him down. I bet the word got out that you grab Steve by his neck because that's how you get that little battering ram to fall down.

I detest the players who tackle someone's head/helmet. That's dirty, IMO.

rmartin65
08-18-2010, 03:50 PM
I detest the players who tackle someone's head/helmet. That's dirty, IMO.

Really? Thats part of the game. As long as they are not grabbing facemask, I am good with that.

I mean, a little different, but during hockey my coach would get really upset when people missed open ice hits. Which was weird, because he got upset when people got hit in open ice (it is difficult to make a good open ice hit). But moving on, I learned one simple little thing; if your head makes contact with the other guys' head, he is not going anywhere. Dont lower the head, because thats a penalty. Just put your facemask on his. I broke so many facemasks (both mine and other peoples'), but it worked. And I never got a penalty for it. Furthermore, I never felt like it was a dirty play. It was hockey, just like this is football.

GP
08-18-2010, 04:00 PM
Really? Thats part of the game. As long as they are not grabbing facemask, I am good with that.

I mean, a little different, but during hockey my coach would get really upset when people missed open ice hits. Which was weird, because he got upset when people got hit in open ice (it is difficult to make a good open ice hit). But moving on, I learned one simple little thing; if your head makes contact with the other guys' head, he is not going anywhere. Dont lower the head, because thats a penalty. Just put your facemask on his. I broke so many facemasks (both mine and other peoples'), but it worked. And I never got a penalty for it. Furthermore, I never felt like it was a dirty play. It was hockey, just like this is football.

I feel that using your pads to hit the helmet is fair game.

Helmet-to-helmet is excessive.

Grabbing a helmet/head and twisting it is very excessive. You've got a lot of torque applied to the spine at the conection to the skull. I think you should tackle areas other than that 6-inch length of spine that rests between your base of the skull and the shoulder blades.

I don't have science or studies to back my theory up. But I just think it's illogical to target that area. Especially when one of my players (Slaton) is having it targeted and now has had surgery and might not be normal again.

IIRC, the league made a rule where they will fine you if your helmet comes off. That's insane. If I am being head'helmet tackled...my helmet popping off might just save me from further injury. If the helmet stays on, the tackler can continue to twist and yank.

Maybe this is why players have resorted to not fastening their helmets? Eli Manning's looked like it was flying off even a split-second before he received the shot to his back on Monday night.

i think head/helmet tackling is bad for everyone. In your hockey example, it's contact between two materials (facemasks) but in my description it's the torque'ing of the spine near the base of the skull. I just think that's bad news, and it's poor form if you're an NFL defender and you have to resort to that sort of crap to get a guy down. It says "I can't tackle you any other way, so let me go head-hunting on you. Snap, crackle, pop."

rmartin65
08-18-2010, 04:05 PM
I feel that using your pads to hit the helmet is fair game.

Helmet-to-helmet is excessive.

Grabbing a helmet/head and twisting it is very excessive. You've got a lot of torque applied to the spine at the conection to the skull. I think you should tackle areas other than that 6-inch length of spine that rests between your base of the skull and the shoulder blades.

I don't have science or studies to back my theory up. But I just think it's illogical to target that area. Especially when one of my players (Slaton) is having it targeted and now has had surgery and might not be normal again.

IIRC, the league made a rule where they will fine you if your helmet comes off. That's insane. If I am being head'helmet tackled...my helmet popping off might just save me from further injury. If the helmet stays on, the tackler can continue to twist and yank.

Maybe this is why players have resorted to not fastening their helmets? Eli Manning's looked like it was flying off even a split-second before he received the shot to his back on Monday night.

i think head/helmet tackling is bad for everyone. In your hockey example, it's contact between two materials (facemasks) but in my description it's the torque'ing of the spine near the base of the skull. I just think that's bad news, and it's poor form if you're an NFL defender and you have to resort to that sort of crap to get a guy down. It says "I can't tackle you any other way, so let me go head-hunting on you. Snap, crackle, pop."

Ah, I did not think about the twisting.

I still think it should be fair game (sans twisting the facemask). The defender is being paid to stop the guy with the ball. He is allowed to do what he wants so long as it is within the rules. For example, what if the only thing the defender can grab is the helmet. The ball carrier is going to score otherwise, and win the game as time expires. What is the defender to do?

I believe the helmet rule is not a fine, the play is just blown dead. I could be wrong though.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2010, 04:33 PM
Well here is Slaton at Monday's practice.

http://images.chron.com/photos/2010/08/16/22907889/600xPopupGallery.jpg


Looks like non-contact drills.

Scouring the Saints-Texans media pieces about today's practice, Foster, Jones and Henry are all mentioned........but not Slaton. If anyone comes across anything, let us know.

Tailgate
08-18-2010, 04:36 PM
Looks like non-contact drills.

Scouring the Saints-Texans media pieces about today's practice, Foster, Jones and Henry are all mentioned........but not Slaton. If anyone comes across anything, let us know.

In the team period that featured the Saints 1st team defense against the Texans 1st team offense the Texans RB Arian Foster gained eight yards on a trap play followed by a good combined stop from Saints DT Sedrick Ellis and LB Jo-Lonn Dunbar on Houston RB Steve Slaton. Other highlights include good run support from DT Anthony Hargrove...and DE Junior Galette and LB Troy Evans came up with good stops.

http://www.wwl.com/Deke--Texans-RB-s-get-best-of-Saints-D/7939506

JB
08-18-2010, 04:36 PM
Looks like non-contact drills.

Scouring the Saints-Texans media pieces about today's practice, Foster, Jones and Henry are all mentioned........but not Slaton. If anyone comes across anything, let us know.

One of the Saints links mentioned him being stopped for a loss early in practice, but that is all I've seen.

Tailgate
08-18-2010, 04:38 PM
Hey, I'm only presenting one possibility. You seem to be of the opinion (unless I am missing something here) that my "dot connecting" can't possibly be true.

Face it, it's a whole bunch of stuff strung together that causes us fans to not know what's going on. At the end of the day, you're going to get shoveled whatever they want you to know.

Players are going to shovel it to coaches. Coaches shovel it to players. Teams shovel it to fans. Etc., etc.

All I am saying is based on what Slaton had happen to him, and what we saw when he was popped pretty good, makes for an interesting set of scenarios and circumstances from here on out.

Not placing blame on the team, the coaches, or the player. It's all a part of the system, IMO. Everyone has jobs riding upon production-on-the-field. if you think that's not playing a role in anything, then so be it.

Do you think, honestly, that we're (a) getting the whole story on injuries and/or (b) that only once the regular season begins do teams play the hide-or-obscure-the-injury game? This is 365/24/7. NFL coaches and management have zero offseason. It's year-round. And despite all the grief I give Kubiak and Rick Smith on roster decisions, I'll give 'em this: They don't let anyone into their circle of trust when it comes to injury reports and other news that affects their plan. Even the Houston media have such watered-down access compared to the Capers-Casserly era. It's night-and-day, and I think everyone on here agrees with that.

We were all shocked around here when McNair-Kubiak-Smith went on record recently and said we weren't going to pursue players such as an Ahman Green-type-of-player who is older and on the downward slope of their career(s). That was a pretty big chunk of information to divulge, in comparison to what normally happens. Oh sure, they might say a thing or there that's of no consequence, which makes McLain salivate like it's 20-for-1 day at Weinerschnitzel, but that's just the point: The media are so closed-off from REAL material that they often invent stuff themselves (see Richard Justice, for an example of this) or they blow up minor stuff (McClain's area of expertise).

We learn more about this team from people on here who have connections to the Texans than we do from the media. A person has a friend, who knows a guy, who is friends with a texans player-sort-of-thing.

Tihs regime is tight-fisted when it comes to divulging information of consequence. And when they give you the news, it's a situation of it not being able to affect the plans of the team: Ben Tate done for the year. With the way players use Twitter, Kubiak don't gotta' say squat anymore.

I am not even sure what we are talking about anymore after that. Slaton plays Saturday night and Ill be keeping a close eye.

Tailgate
08-18-2010, 04:41 PM
Not a whole lot from this but....

4) No fumbles for any of the running backs today that I saw. Arian Foster clearly looks the part of top tailback, and it's not even close right now. I talked to Steve Slaton after practice, he seems in good spirits and looks a LOT trimmer than last season. Just needs to hold onto the ball.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/08/game_time_texans_wednesday_am.php

Rey
08-18-2010, 04:43 PM
Cushing grabbed Leinart's Helmet on one play during the last game...

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2010, 04:58 PM
In the team period that featured the Saints 1st team defense against the Texans 1st team offense the Texans RB Arian Foster gained eight yards on a trap play followed by a good combined stop from Saints DT Sedrick Ellis and LB Jo-Lonn Dunbar on Houston RB Steve Slaton. Other highlights include good run support from DT Anthony Hargrove...and DE Junior Galette and LB Troy Evans came up with good stops.

http://www.wwl.com/Deke--Texans-RB-s-get-best-of-Saints-D/7939506

One of the Saints links mentioned him being stopped for a loss early in practice, but that is all I've seen.

Thanks

GP
08-18-2010, 05:42 PM
I am not even sure what we are talking about anymore after that. Slaton plays Saturday night and Ill be keeping a close eye.

I think it was about you saying you see that there would be no reason for the Texans to withhold or guard injury information UNTIL it became regular season.

Maybe it's just become part of texanstalk.com folklore around here, but there is a large portion of people on this forum who have seen and discussed the moments (and there's a lot of them) where things are not what they seem. I'm not suggesting conspiracies at every turn of the corner, but that injuries are almost never reported with full disclosure. I haven't really seen that this is only during regular season. They guard all sorts of information, not just injuries.

Lots of people on here have learned, over time, that what you hear is not necessarily what's actually happening. It's taken with a grain of salt. And naturally, we've learned to watch the field and see who is playing rather than to trust that when they say Player X is fine and will be back "soon" that it will indeed be true.

If we get news, it's always sugar-coated and vague. We've grown accustomed to believing what we SEE over what we HEAR from the team officials.

drs23
08-18-2010, 05:45 PM
Really? Thats part of the game. As long as they are not grabbing facemask, I am good with that.

I mean, a little different, but during hockey my coach would get really upset when people missed open ice hits. Which was weird, because he got upset when people got hit in open ice (it is difficult to make a good open ice hit). But moving on, I learned one simple little thing; if your head makes contact with the other guys' head, he is not going anywhere. Dont lower the head, because thats a penalty. Just put your facemask on his. I broke so many facemasks (both mine and other peoples'), but it worked. And I never got a penalty for it. Furthermore, I never felt like it was a dirty play. It was hockey, just like this is football.

See ya got right on that sig. I changed mine yesterday. :cool:

rmartin65
08-18-2010, 05:47 PM
See ya got right on that sig. I changed mine yesterday. :cool:

Yep, I forgot that I had that up there. I guess the competition is kind of useless now.

drs23
08-18-2010, 05:57 PM
Yep, I forgot that I had that up there. I guess the competition is kind of useless now.

Yup, I agree. But keep us filled in on Toby. Not that it can't be found somewhere else but at least you can use 1/2 your sig.

Tailgate
08-18-2010, 05:59 PM
I think it was about you saying you see that there would be no reason for the Texans to withhold or guard injury information UNTIL it became regular season.

Maybe it's just become part of texanstalk.com folklore around here, but there is a large portion of people on this forum who have seen and discussed the moments (and there's a lot of them) where things are not what they seem. I'm not suggesting conspiracies at every turn of the corner, but that injuries are almost never reported with full disclosure. I haven't really seen that this is only during regular season. They guard all sorts of information, not just injuries.

Lots of people on here have learned, over time, that what you hear is not necessarily what's actually happening. It's taken with a grain of salt. And naturally, we've learned to watch the field and see who is playing rather than to trust that when they say Player X is fine and will be back "soon" that it will indeed be true.

If we get news, it's always sugar-coated and vague. We've grown accustomed to believing what we SEE over what we HEAR from the team officials.


Again, in the Regular season... of course. But right now? Not so much... but thats just my opinion. Not sure what examples there are from this time of year, but things seem pretty straight forward to me. Like current injuries (Marios hip, Andre Davis tailbone, Holliday, etc,etc,etc), or starters getting pushed (Jacoby and Sharpton), or lack there of (Tate),etc,etc...

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2010, 06:39 PM
Throughout last year including preseason, people were pointing out that Mario was not effective. I repeatedly stated that he played as though he had a shoulder problem in that he never raised his arms above shoulder level, and did not us his hands/arms to push or throw defenders off. Accordingly, his inside moves were virtually non-existent.

Texans RE Mario Williams will have his shoulder scoped this offseason.

The procedure will probably happen by the end of the month, and not threaten Williams' status for OTAs. Mario's nine sacks in 2009 were his fewest since his rookie year, but he played hurt all season and has been snubbed previously. He's still one of the game's top-ten all-around defensive ends.
Source: Houston Chronicle

Brisco_County
08-18-2010, 07:08 PM
In the team period that featured the Saints 1st team defense against the Texans 1st team offense the Texans RB Arian Foster gained eight yards on a trap play followed by a good combined stop from Saints DT Sedrick Ellis and LB Jo-Lonn Dunbar on Houston RB Steve Slaton. Other highlights include good run support from DT Anthony Hargrove...and DE Junior Galette and LB Troy Evans came up with good stops.

http://www.wwl.com/Deke--Texans-RB-s-get-best-of-Saints-D/7939506

Based on this, I don't know why they wouldn't reduce Slaton to only a passing-down role. I could see Foster taking 20 carries, and Slaton and Johnson each taking about 10 respectively. Works for me.

drs23
08-18-2010, 08:26 PM
Based on this, I don't know why they wouldn't reduce Slaton to only a passing-down role. I could see Foster taking 20 carries, and Slaton and Johnson each taking about 10 respectively. Works for me.

So that would give us our *bell cow*, 3rd down back and Johnson's 10 carries each for 40 a game. I assume this is the "3 headed monster" I've read about here and elsewhere. Where do Jeramiah's 10 carries come in? Under what circumstances? Splitting time/snaps w/Slaton if I'm reading correctly?

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2010, 09:11 PM
Grabbing a helmet/head and twisting it is very excessive. You've got a lot of torque applied to the spine at the conection to the skull. I think you should tackle areas other than that 6-inch length of spine that rests between your base of the skull and the shoulder blades.


Add to that that hanging onto a player by the hair (e.g. by the dreadlocks) during play is not illegal, unlike a horse-collar tackle. It is, by the rules, the equivalent to pulling on a player's jersey.

GP
08-18-2010, 10:11 PM
Again, in the Regular season... of course. But right now? Not so much... but thats just my opinion. Not sure what examples there are from this time of year, but things seem pretty straight forward to me. Like current injuries (Marios hip, Andre Davis tailbone, Holliday, etc,etc,etc), or starters getting pushed (Jacoby and Sharpton), or lack there of (Tate),etc,etc...

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I don't think we're disagreeing. I think there's questions on the minds of fans, in terms of what we're told vs. what is actually going on.

My main point is that teams, especially the Texans current team, are not squaring with anybody on injuries. So you can't think that no news is good news. Some news is shared, but not all of it. And even when it's shared, it's probably shaded to whatever the team wants to shade it.

I guess I am saying that injury reports are not reliable.

GP
08-18-2010, 10:30 PM
Tailgate:

Here's a quote from someone in another thread today. I remember when this all went down. The Texans were all over the bloggers. Big time. It really upset a lot of us here, because the bloggers who frequent this forum were giving us coverage that the media guys were not. "AJ" is a guy who posts on here whose screen name is aj.

Well AJ is with the Examiner now. I don't know if the Texans pressured him while he was writing for them. Keith from houtonprofootball now inthebullseye had a pass for a while and they got upset with him for providing too much detail on formations and plays. I do think there is an understanding with reporters that they shouldn't provide too much detail on that kind of stuff. Still be nice to have someone just reporting who is running with the 1's, etc. and on individual performance.

The Texans are a Public Relations-driven franchise. They are building an image of the team, and pushing it their own way. Not saying I disagree with that, but saying that they aren't like Head Coach Billy Joe McFiddle who lets the press come into his office and just talk for hours about the specifics of his team, players, etc. There's no Good Old Boy attitude with what they do. It's all calculated and measured out, my man.

Tailgate
08-18-2010, 11:18 PM
Throughout last year including preseason, people were pointing out that Mario was not effective. I repeatedly stated that he played as though he had a shoulder problem in that he never raised his arms above shoulder level, and did not us his hands/arms to push or throw defenders off. Accordingly, his inside moves were virtually non-existent.


All the way back to preseason? Are you sure about that? And you added that second part about the scope as if we didnt already have his shoulder injury confirmed way back into last season?

11-06-2009, 06:29 PM
Texans [Texans] Texans DE Mario Williams' Injury Has Him In Limited Practice
Mario Williams was limited in practice for the third straight day Friday, according to the Texans' official website. He is dealing with a shoulder ailment. The stud defensive end should be able to play Sunday at Indianapolis

Source: Rototimes.com

Read more: http://gridironfans.com/forums/latest-nfl-headlines/113521-texans-de-mario-williams-injury-has-him.html#ixzz0x1M6Aimw


The Texans' Week 10 bye comes at a good time for DE Mario Williams, who has played through a bruised left shoulder since early October. Entering the Nov. 8 game at Indianapolis, Williams had just six tackles and one sack in his last four starts, and he had twice been held without a tackle.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/11/04/texans-de-williams-slowed-by-shoulder-injury


And here is actually one of your posts from Oct of last year

Somewhat confusing signals, possibly purposeful, possibly worrisome. For the rush technique that Mario utilizes, a good shoulder would be a nice thing to have.


Texans DE Williams questionable

Houston, TX (Sports Network) - Houston Texans defensive end Mario Williams is listed as questionable for Sunday's game against Arizona because of a shoulder injury.

Williams suffered the injury in this past Sunday's win over Oakland and did not practice Wednesday or Thursday. He was back in practice Friday, and Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said Williams will be a game-time decision, adding he thought the defensive end has a good chance of playing.

Williams, the first overall draft pick in 2006, has not missed a game for Houston in his career. He currently leads the Texans in sacks, with two.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65531&highlight=mario+williams+shoulder&page=2


Or is this about finding out exactly what the injury is and what its gonna need? And thats the part they are witholding from us? Because my point is there is NOTHING at all being reported, mentioned, or even hinted to us about Slaton. Like everything is perfectly normal. From the sound of it you would think I should be shocked that we even heard about Marios hip injury this year.

Brisco_County
08-18-2010, 11:42 PM
So that would give us our *bell cow*, 3rd down back and Johnson's 10 carries each for 40 a game. I assume this is the "3 headed monster" I've read about here and elsewhere. Where do Jeramiah's 10 carries come in? Under what circumstances? Splitting time/snaps w/Slaton if I'm reading correctly?

I meant to sum about 30 carries, so the split would be Foster around 15, Johnson around 10, and Slaton about 5+.

Wednesday isn't a good math day for me.

Or, if Foster is noticeably more productive than Johnson, they'll keep Foster in for over 20 and keep Johnson on the bench.

FYI, here's a good article on counting carries for running backs:

Source (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_695287.html).

The top 10 NFL rushers (in terms of yards gained) the past three seasons averaged 298.2 attempts, down from 308 in the last three seasons of the 1990s. Only Adrian Peterson and Thomas Jones finished 10th or higher from 2007 through 2009.

Early in the 2007 season, Willie Parker was leading the Steelers in rushing when coach Mike Tomlin declared: "We are going to ride Willie until the wheels fall off."

They did.

Three months after Tomlin's pronouncement, Parker broke his leg. Four months after that, the Steelers drafted Rashard Mendenhall, who seized Parker's starting job last year. Parker, 29, averaged 304.3 carries in his first three seasons as a starter with the Steelers.

The Steelers, who gave Jerome Bettis the ball an average of 333 times in his first five seasons with the team, haven't given Mendenhall the same work load — yet.

dalemurphy
08-19-2010, 12:38 AM
Here's video of the Slaton injury (possibly)

http://www.texansbullblog.com/evidence-slaton-reinjured-neck-cardinals/news/

JB
08-19-2010, 01:06 AM
Here's a video of the hit on Slaton that we think aggravated his neck injury:

http://www.texansbullblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/081410-Slaton-Neck-Injury-vid.avi


Pretty thin!

barrett
08-19-2010, 01:13 AM
Here's video of the Slaton injury (possibly)

http://www.texansbullblog.com/video-slaton-neck-reinjury/news/

There's good video of Studdard destroying the LB on the Foster run at that link as well.

If only he could pass block!

GNTLEWOLF
08-19-2010, 02:34 AM
I really hope you guys are wrong about Slaton re-injuring himself. having said that, my gut feeling is that you are correct.

CloakNNNdagger
08-19-2010, 06:55 AM
All the way back to preseason? Are you sure about that? And you added that second part about the scope as if we didnt already have his shoulder injury confirmed way back into last season?






And here is actually one of your posts from Oct of last year




Or is this about finding out exactly what the injury is and what its gonna need? And thats the part they are witholding from us? Because my point is there is NOTHING at all being reported, mentioned, or even hinted to us about Slaton. Like everything is perfectly normal. From the sound of it you would think I should be shocked that we even heard about Marios hip injury this year.

Offseason surgery for a "bruised" shoulder. Right. Just like DD finishing out his last season with revelations after the fact that the Texans were running him that entire season essentially bone on bone.

Look Tailgate, I respect your aggressiveness in the defense of the Texans' way of injury "revelation, but I will continue to evaluate what is before me not only through the eyes of an avid fan but as an entity that has dealt extensively with trauma, its symptoms and signs, course, risks and consequences. As such we will have to agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

dalemurphy
08-19-2010, 07:07 AM
Offseason surgery for a "bruised" shoulder. Right. Just like DD finishing out his last season with revelations after the fact that the Texans were running him that entire season essentially bone on bone.

Look Tailgate, I respect your aggressiveness in the defense of the Texans' way of injury "revelation, but I will continue to evaluate what is before me not only through the eyes of an avid fan but as an entity that has dealt extensively with trauma, its symptoms and signs, course, risks and consequences. As such we will have to agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

Nobody is a more ardent defender of this organization than I am. I also love my wife. Along with that closeness, however, comes an awareness of her imperfections. Depending on my state of mind, I either love her despite the flaws or I find those flaws endearing.

To understand and give voice to the fact that the Texans are disingenuous about injuries is not evidence that I'm not a fan of the organization. Instead, it simply indicates that I know them well.

The1ApplePie
08-19-2010, 09:30 AM
I think he meant that SS in his rookie season was the best RB we've ever had in a Texans uniform

DD also put up inflated numbers because he was litterally the only other weapon besides AJ (not to mention Carr was the one throwing the ball).

DD was still a hell of a player, but Capers ran him into the ground

Hervoyel
08-19-2010, 09:47 AM
I am, at this point skeptical that anything is physically wrong with Slaton. That doesn't mean I'm not concerned with the possibility or looking harder than I was before. I just see nothing but circumstantial evidence at the moment. It's compelling circumstantial evidence but I need more than this to get onboard the he's hurt train.

badboy
08-19-2010, 10:03 AM
Nobody is a more ardent defender of this organization than I am. I also love my wife. Along with that closeness, however, comes an awareness of her imperfections. Depending on my state of mind, I either love her despite the flaws or I find those flaws endearing.

To understand and give voice to the fact that the Texans are disingenuous about injuries is not evidence that I'm not a fan of the organization. Instead, it simply indicates that I know them well.IMPERFECTIONS? What imperfections? signed Mrs. dalemurphy :cutthroat:

Tailgate
08-19-2010, 10:05 AM
Offseason surgery for a "bruised" shoulder. Right. Just like DD finishing out his last season with revelations after the fact that the Texans were running him that entire season essentially bone on bone.

Look Tailgate, I respect your aggressiveness in the defense of the Texans' way of injury "revelation, but I will continue to evaluate what is before me not only through the eyes of an avid fan but as an entity that has dealt extensively with trauma, its symptoms and signs, course, risks and consequences. As such we will have to agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

Again, this is about hearing NOTHING in regards to Slaton. The point with the Mario Williams post was that we at least heard SOMETHING about his shoulder injury despite you saying otherwise.

So I will agree to disagree. I'm with Hervoyel on this one.

gtexan02
08-19-2010, 10:54 AM
IMPERFECTIONS? What imperfections? signed Mrs. dalemurphy :cutthroat:

You're dalemurphy's wife....?

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2010, 11:18 AM
You're dalemurphy's wife....?

No. He's dalemurphy's bitc.... um... maybe I shouldn't say that.

dalemurphy
08-19-2010, 11:52 AM
I am, at this point skeptical that anything is physically wrong with Slaton. That doesn't mean I'm not concerned with the possibility or looking harder than I was before. I just see nothing but circumstantial evidence at the moment. It's compelling circumstantial evidence but I need more than this to get onboard the he's hurt train.

Hervoyel,
I think that is a good characterization. The last thing I want to do is get caught up defending our article to the point that we end up over-selling what we saw. I'm concerned and alarmed but also hopeful that what we witnessed was only a bump in his full recover and return to his 2008 playing level.

Tailgate
08-20-2010, 10:11 AM
More updates on Slaton...


RUNNING DISPLAY After a rough day of adjusting to the Saints' physical practice mind-set, the Texans running backs got their revenge Wednesday. Starting running back Arian Foster ran hard up the middle at linebackers, Steve Slaton took a beating but held onto the ball, Chris Henry ran as hard as usual, skirmishing at times, and even finesse runner Jeremiah Johnson threw a strong stiff arm here and there. Running backs coach Chick Harris said after practice that's how they plan to elevate their running game this season — to get more hard-nosed. — Jordan Godwin

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/2010/08/camp_quick_hits_8.html

Señor Stan
08-20-2010, 10:21 AM
More updates on Slaton...




http://blogs.chron.com/sportsupdate/archives/2010/08/camp_quick_hits_8.html

"even finesse runner Jeremiah Johnson threw a strong stiff arm here and there"

How is JJ a finesse runner? His reputation for a wicked stiff arm (and injured shoulder) are not a secret. I wonder how much attention these writers actually pay to the team they are supposed to cover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynbo4ZjMJXk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkobN9_0pdo&feature=related

Hervoyel
08-20-2010, 11:54 AM
"even finesse runner Jeremiah Johnson threw a strong stiff arm here and there"

How is JJ a finesse runner? His reputation for a wicked stiff arm (and injured shoulder) are not a secret. I wonder how much attention these writers actually pay to the team they are supposed to cover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynbo4ZjMJXk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkobN9_0pdo&feature=related

I think they sometimes look at the RB's height and weight and just decide to portray him one way or the other. It's the same way bigger guys get mislabeled as power runners. Somebody looks at their height/weight and starts pulling adjectives out of their ass and viola! He's a power runner and a perfect choice for our next goal/short-yardage specialist.

Might not be entirely right but it at least explains where Chris Brown came from.

Señor Stan
08-20-2010, 01:00 PM
I think they sometimes look at the RB's height and weight and just decide to portray him one way or the other. It's the same way bigger guys get mislabeled as power runners. Somebody looks at their height/weight and starts pulling adjectives out of their ass and viola! He's a power runner and a perfect choice for our next goal/short-yardage specialist.

Might not be entirely right but it at least explains where Chris Brown came from.


Also see : Wells, Jonathan.

thunderkyss
08-21-2010, 09:12 AM
I think they sometimes look at the RB's height and weight and just decide to portray him one way or the other. It's the same way bigger guys get mislabeled as power runners. Somebody looks at their height/weight and starts pulling adjectives out of their ass and viola! He's a power runner and a perfect choice for our next goal/short-yardage specialist.

Might not be entirely right but it at least explains where Chris Brown came from.

If (& I say if, because I don't know, but it is the first I've heard) this is the first time he's shown that stiff-arm in the last two years, and all we've got to go on is his first preseason game where he adeptly used his patience & blockers to get upfield, Finesse is about the only way I could think to describe his style.

Finesse isn't a bad word, especially if it still results in 20+ yard gains.