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spurstexanstros
08-10-2010, 04:32 PM
Nope, they still have it tied up in a Minnesota state court. I think they are hoping to keep it that way until they both retire :)

ok they why is Cushing serving his? Can we find a judge somewhere to put a moratorium on this...let me guess they are all Cowboy fans here.

BIG TORO
08-10-2010, 04:38 PM
Did the williamses serve their suspension?

No, not yet!

mattieuk
08-10-2010, 04:38 PM
I finally just decided that I believe him. I originally knee jerked a little towards disgust and sadness that this guy who brought passion and respectability to the Texans defense wasn't real but I read, considered, decided (that he was most likely guilty I admit) and finally went on about my business. Then we saw the story come back with Bob McNair going to bat for Cushing, and after reading the newer information I had to rethink things. Upon further consideration I find myself leaning towards believing him and laying this lone positive test on a freaky body that doesn't produce the normal amount of hCg all the time. I can accept that possibility without much of a stretch of my imagination.

I've got a liver that cranks out elevated levels of a couple of enzymes that flag me in HIV and Hep tests. I have neither but eventually gave up donating blood because it always results in a scary letter (plus they throw my blood away, can't take a chance and I agree with that policy completely). Not everybody is the same and while this may be apple to oranges it is my experience and I can only look at this through my own eyes.


Firstly, that must have been the scariest thing in the world, when you found out about it.

Second up, you're around where I am. If Brian did take performance enhancers, then I'm pissed off at him, and I can't imagine having any of the feeling of pride watching him crack skulls like last year.

As a Texan though, Bob is still batting for him, Cushing is still fighting it, although a large portion of the media is taking the 'shut up and take your punishment, junkie' atittude. I hope he didn't do anything bad, but that said, if he did, he's gotta pay the penalty.

Marcus
08-10-2010, 04:42 PM
We're not talking about a steroid test though. This is a new type of test where its credibility is vulnerable to scrutiny of its process.

Exactly.

I still remain pessimistic. Unless this new "evidence" is overwelming and indisputable, and not subject to disagreement in the interpretation of the results among the various experts, I don't see him overturning it.

Dutchrudder
08-10-2010, 04:46 PM
ok they why is Cushing serving his? Can we find a judge somewhere to put a moratorium on this...let me guess they are all Cowboy fans here.

Here's the story on that:

Kevin and Pat Williams, who are not related, along with three New Orleans Saints players, were suspended after testing positive for bumetanide, a diuretic contained in the weight-loss supplement StarCaps. Bumetanide is banned because it can be used as a masking agent for steroids.

Bumetanide was not listed as an ingredient on the StarCaps label, and the players' union claims that the NFL did not properly inform players that the banned substance was contained in the supplement.

The NFL has maintained that it rightfully suspended the players under the league's collective bargaining agreement, claiming that StarCaps was listed among products that players were banned from endorsing.

The St. Paul Pioneer Press reported that NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said in an e-mail the league would proceed with discovery yet remained "confident that we will prevail in this case based on the merits of our positions."

In a letter included in the court filings, Kevin and Pat Williams admitted they used StarCaps to help them make a prescribed weight, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported. Both have a contract clause that pays a $400,000 bonus if they make a certain weight at several points during the season -- but the clause stipulates that the players not undertake any "last-minute weight reduction techniques," which included "use of diuretics."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3933023

HoustonFrog
08-10-2010, 05:00 PM
Fact: Cushing was tested for steroids 23 times while at USC.

I'm going to predict right now that McNair will win this one. Look at the position Goodell is being put in: He has to defend the veracity of a relatively new test against its first guilty subject. The guilty party is bringing to the table a well-researched, professionally supported case of questions and variables that the NFL does not have empirically supported answers for.

Do you know what that opens up? 1) It is new science that isn't even supported or out there for the full medical community. Read my quote from PKs piece a few pages back from one of the foremost experts on this. 2) If he accepts this new science then every person who has issues with their test is going to cry this. In fact you could play Devil's Advocate and argue that it gives some guys a free pass to "mask" down the line because they can cry "over-training."

What will probably happen is that Goodell will table this info and say they need further research, etc to test its validity and that going forward they will have other doctors look at it. Considering what I've read from other doctors I don't think many are jumping on the "Overtaining" bandwagon at this time.

What a cheap drunk you are... I really wish I had that problem. :cowboy1:

LOL. Actually I'm not. But 4 large(18 oz) at BW will make me a little off and "a couple" just sounds better. And my example with all in fun, I haven't been in trouble for being wasted since kids....though I have had some times. :)

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2010, 05:12 PM
I think if this was Chris Johnson then we would see the skepticism level rise dramtically.

Cole said there are conditions that could trigger false positives in a man. The testicles could completely stop working -- as in a case of testicular cancer, or a disease called hypogonadotropism (which basically means the testicles stop working), or a hereditary disease called hCG syndrome -- resulting in more than normal hCG being produced in the body. Said Cole: "All these things are rare and remote. The honest truth is that 999 times out of a thousand, the test gives a correct result. If they're positive, they're taking hCG.''


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/08/10/mail/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin

From HoustonFrog's link:

Well the doctor is saying that 999 out of thousand times the test gives a correct result. I think we're all in the boat, including Cushing, that we take the test as being accurate... we're just wondering/hoping/trying to find out WHY it came back like that.

Just for amusement let's say we are NOT convinced the test was accurate. So he states that 999 out of 1,000 times it's accurate which means 1 out of 1,000 times the test could produce false results.

Now going on the conservative basis of 53 players per active roster and there being 32 teams, that's 1,696 players in the NFL on an active roster at any given time. That's 1,696 players that we KNOW have been tested at least ONCE. This does not include an other players that have been cut/never made the active roster or a team/are on the practice squad... who all should have been tested as well.

So if the statistics are correct, with 1,696 players getting tested (meaning 1,696 tests being administered) that's 1.696 players that could find themselves receiving a false result. And that's only one test! These players are tested multiple times so this only increases the chances that a player could falsely test positive for this.

I'm not saying I believe the results were false... I'm just saying that based on the statistic that the "Expert" gave, it's completely viable that 1 person in the NFL could get a false result EACH TIME THEY GET TESTED. That's just due to the shear numbers of players getting tested.

Ole Miss Texan,

I've got to jump in here now. I've spent quite a bit of time speaking directly with Dr. Larry Cole within the last few months. He has the most internationally recognized and utilized HCG reference labaratory in the world. He is known as "Mr. HCG." He was kind enough to answer many questions about "male HCG" which he stated did not exist in a non pathologic condition (as he mentioned in his interview). False negative results are common. False positives are extremely rare. I can see that you have gone through a great deal of effort to make the point that "999 out of thousand times the test gives a correct result" is not all that uncommon. Your efforts are commendable. However, the premise of your calculations is somewhat flawed in that the 999 out of a thousand that Dr. Cole refers to is not of total players tested, but of the total players testing positive (which is a miniscule percentage to begin with). His comments should now place things in somewhat better perspective.

Since the Cushing decision, I've been in contact with some of the major players (including the NFL testing labs at UCLA and in Salt Lake City, Utah) in this whole NFL testing process, and have shared some of these findings, including official documents with Cak and TexansChick. There are many misconceptions running around the MB and elsewhere. In time, being sensitive to sources, I will try to share with you the benefits of some of these contacts.

Double Barrel
08-10-2010, 05:31 PM
Sounds like bias either way.

If Texans fans--the ones who actually take time to learn about the situation--aren't qualified to make a judgement then who is?

Of course there will be different opinions, but I don't think that just because we're fans of the Texans we can't look at what we know about the situation and attempt to take our own bias out of it.

Personally, I've gone back and forth on the issue...and in the end, I will never 'know'...

I go back and forth, as well, and to be honest, I'll admit a biased double-standard about this subject. It is a battle between the head and the heart, because I cannot 'trick' my brain into scenarios based upon pre-destined outcomes. But obviously, I'm a Texans fan so my heart is with our team and player.

As far as Texans fans being "qualified"...well, absolutely no offense to anyone, but we do have an actual doctor on the board, and his perspectives are the only ones that I really perceive as qualified in the medical aspects of this subject...speaking of which....

Ole Miss Texan,

I've got to jump in here now. I've spent quite a bit of time speaking directly with Dr. Larry Cole within the last few months. He has the most internationally recognized and utilized HCG reference labaratory in the world. He is known as "Mr. HCG." He was kind enough to answer many questions about "male HCG" which he stated did not exist in a non pathologic condition (as he mentioned in his interview). False negative results are common. False positives are extremely rare. I can see that you have gone through a great deal of effort to make the point that "999 out of thousand times the test gives a correct result" is not all that uncommon. Your efforts are commendable. However, the premise of your calculations is somewhat flawed in that the 999 out of a thousand that Dr. Cole refers to is not of total players tested, but of the total players testing positive (which is a miniscule percentage to begin with). His comments should now place things in somewhat better perspective.

Since the Cushing decision, I've been in contact with some of the major players (including the NFL testing labs at UCLA and in Salt Lake City, Utah) in this whole NFL testing process, and have shared some of these findings, including official documents with Cak and TexansChick. There are many misconceptions running around the MB and elsewhere. In time, being sensitive to sources, I will try to share with you the benefits of some of these contacts.

Thank you greatly for your educational posts, Doc. They have really helped to understand this matter much better than any sources in the media or the net in general. Your willingness to share your knowledge, understanding, and results of continued investigation is beyond awesome for what it brings to this board. :)

michaelm
08-10-2010, 05:31 PM
ok they why is Cushing serving his? Can we find a judge somewhere to put a moratorium on this...let me guess they are all Cowboy fans here.

More and more, I'm feeling that this might actually happen. I am starting to believe that Cushing might try to take this to court. I think that is one of the things that Bob went to talk to Godell about. <<< speculation, of course.


If it happens that way, I believ Cushing will make his case based on the NFL's testing policy, as it relates to hCG, and how the testing differs from the way other banned substances are tested.
I'm not saying he's right, but I am starting to feel like it might go that far.

J_R
08-10-2010, 05:43 PM
Not a question imo of "Have the Williams wall served their suspension yet?"

I think it's unlikely they will, at least this year.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/21/latest-starcaps-decision-likely-means-williamses-will-be-available-all-year/

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/tag/_/name/kevin-williams

As for Cushing, don't think anything will happen.

Ole Miss Texan
08-10-2010, 05:47 PM
Ole Miss Texan,

I've got to jump in here now. I've spent quite a bit of time speaking directly with Dr. Larry Cole within the last few months. He has the most internationally recognized and utilized HCG reference labaratory in the world. He is known as "Mr. HCG." He was kind enough to answer many questions about "male HCG" which he stated did not exist in a non pathologic condition (as he mentioned in his interview). False negative results are common. False positives are extremely rare. I can see that you have gone through a great deal of effort to make the point that "999 out of thousand times the test gives a correct result" is not all that uncommon. Your efforts are commendable. However, the premise of your calculations is somewhat flawed in that the 999 out of a thousand that Dr. Cole refers to is not of total players tested, but of the total players testing positive (which is a miniscule percentage to begin with). His comments should now place things in somewhat better perspective.

Since the Cushing decision, I've been in contact with some of the major players (including the NFL testing labs at UCLA and in Salt Lake City, Utah) in this whole NFL testing process, and have shared some of these findings, including official documents with Cak and TexansChick. There are many misconceptions running around the MB and elsewhere. In time, being sensitive to sources, I will try to share with you the benefits of some of these contacts.
Ah, excellent. Thanks for the clarification CND. That really seems to solidify the accuracy of the tests then. Hypothetically (for "easy" math) let's say 0.05% of the players tested, "fail" the hCG portion. If 2,000 players are tested, that's 1 person that "fails" or tests above the allowable levels. If the accuracy of the test is 999/1,000 that basically means if they test the players 1,000 times then 1... only 1 of the instances might have been due to an inaccurate reading. (right?) So that's basically 2,000,000 players tested or tests given!! That's also approximately every single player in the NFL getting tested twice a week for 10 years!? If that's the case then... sheesh! :choke:

jppaul
08-10-2010, 07:20 PM
The more I think about it, this is a valid legal point and seems to guarantee this this will end up in a court room if the suspension is not suspended.

Cushing is now aware of a medical condition which is in conflict with league rules and which can prevent him from employment as a professional football player if it reoccurs in the future. If this is not legally settled at this point in time, your point of mutual agreement may very well come into play in the future.

Is there a lawyer in the house.

This is based on BRIEF analysis. There are a couple questions there though.

1) Is it a disability under the ADA?

The determination of what constitutes a disability is made on a case by case basis.

WHO Definition according to Wiki:

Disabilities is an umbrella term, covering impairments, activity limitations, and participation restrictions. An impairment is a problem in body function or structure; an activity limitation is a difficulty encountered by an individual in executing a task or action; while a participation restriction is a problem experienced by an individual in involvement in life situations. Thus disability is a complex phenomenon, reflecting an interaction between features of a person’s body and features of the society in which he or she lives.

Official Definition was substantially broadened by ADA Amendments in force as of 1/1/2009.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/adaaa_notice.cfm

I believe it would be if you could show subtantial medical evidence to support.

2) Does the collective bargaining agreement waive the right to have a discrimination claim brought under a federal statute?

Penny v. United Parcel Serv., 128 F.3d 408 (6th Cir. 1997) (holding that "an employee whose only obligation to arbitrate is contained in a collective bargaining agreement retains the right to obtain a judicial determination of his rights under a statute such as the ADA"), unless there is an express waiver contained in the agreement.

Number19
08-10-2010, 07:32 PM
...I just call b.s. That simple...If you truly are innocent, what are you supposed to do? If this is a naturally occurring medical problem and you test positive a second time, what are you to do?

Now, let me take off on a tangent.

Do you think Cushing is really - and I mean REALLY - stupid?

He tested with elevated levels of hCG in September but only one of the two exceeded the threshold level. It would take a really stupid person to continue taking a banned substance, during the season, for two months, after being put on notice by the league office. And you think Cushing, with his family background, is that stupid?

HouTxFan
08-10-2010, 09:10 PM
:friends: Ok HouTxFan!!!! I didn't mean for there to be drama either. I noticed someone new in another post talking smack, thougth maybe it was something like that and they were adding neg rep for people!!! Welcome to the board. If anyone gives you any trouble, warn them: they will be POLLARDIZED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Pollardized! :handshake: I feel more welcome...and MUCH safer...already. :texflag:

Texan_Bill
08-10-2010, 09:32 PM
Did the williamses serve their suspension?

Nope...

Cush knows the truth. If he's guilty than he's guilty. Man up!! If he knows that he did nothing wrong, hire an attorney.

Pollardized
08-10-2010, 09:34 PM
Nope...

Cush knows the truth. If he's guilty than he's guilty. Man up!! If he knows that he did nothing wrong, hire an attorney.

I hereby offer my legal services free of charge to help Brian Cushing see justice served in this matter.

ubecool454
08-10-2010, 10:03 PM
Well, Big Ben has a 6 game suspension that can be reduced to 4. I'm pretty sure McNair wouldn't be taking the time to go to NYC if he didn't think that he can get it reduced. I would love to see them cut it to two games so he can be there for the Dallas game.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2010, 10:08 PM
In search of an out, Cushing finds OAS (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hAWSHQaylbspy8wktBpQHBlR7-GAD9HGFHQ00)
Tim Dahlberg is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press.

As excuses go, it's a step above "The dog ate my homework."

Good thing it's not a contest, though. Because as much as Brian Cushing tries, he can't beat cyclist Tyler Hamilton's claim a few years back that his imaginary twin was responsible for his positive blood doping tests.

Ah, busted athletes and their excuses. Who knew how creative they can be?

Barry Bonds says he thought it was just flaxseed oil. Roger Clemens claims the shots he was getting in his rear end were nutritional supplements.

Sprinter Justin Gatlin tells a story about a masseuse who may have added a little something extra to his rubdown.

And now Cushing says his positive test for a female fertility drug came about because he exercised too much.

That's right. Exercised too much.

The Houston Texans linebacker offered up that excuse Monday while somehow suppressing what had to be an overwhelming urge to giggle. That's OK, because a lot of other overworked athletes had to be doing some giggling themselves at just the thought of it.

According to Cushing's appeal of his four-game suspension for testing positive for a female fertility drug last year, he was the victim of something he called Overtrained Athlete Syndrome. Turns out it was simply a case of him working too hard for his own good.

"I think that's the final diagnosis we came up with," Cushing said, "and a lot of doctors have supported why this has happened."

Just who those doctors are, Cushing isn't saying. But Texans owner Bob McNair buys the story, so much so that he went to New York to ask NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to rescind the four-game suspension handed down to Cushing for his positive test.

Among those not buying it is Travis Tygart, who heads the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, which administers drug testing for America's Olympic athletes.

"We're unaware of any basis in medical literature that supports this," Tygart said in a telephone interview.

Doping guys have to be skeptics, of course. They've heard all the stories, listened to all the excuses.

And in the end, one of three things almost always happens: The athlete wisens up, the athlete gives it up, or the athlete simply shuts up.

Count Manny Ramirez among the latter. The Dodgers outfielder was busted for using the same fertility drug that the NFL says Cushing used. But Manny being Manny, he has refused to talk about it — or almost anything else — ever since.

We can presume he wasn't trying to have a baby. But is it possible the dreadlocked one was a victim of OAS himself?

Hardly, as anyone who has ever watched Ramirez run after a fly ball can attest. Still, by the time Cushing is done fighting his one-man crusade against overexertion, he may wish he had clammed up just like his baseball counterpart.

The problem isn't that Cushing doth protest too much, though he surely does. It's that he expects Texans fans and the few other people who care about who tests positive for what in the NFL to take him at his word when he said he did nothing against the rules to win the AP Defensive Rookie of the Year award last season.

But if Cushing really wants to clear this up, why not release both the test results and his medical records? While he's at it, he can trot out some of the experts on OAS to talk about its side effects.

He won't because the bottom line is he got caught with HGC, or human chorionic gonadotropin, in his system. And the only known way — besides OAS, of course — HGC can get in a male's system is either by injection or tumors, which Cushing doesn't have.

What is known is that HGC can be injected at the end of a steroid cycle, when users are unable to produce much testosterone. It jumpstarts the process, and is commonly used in conjunction with steroids.

In Cushing's case, he tested positive at the beginning of his rookie season. You do the math, but the timing alone is almost as damaging as the fact HGC was in his body at all.

"If it sort of looks like a duck and smells like a duck, it's usually a duck," Tygart said.

Cushing isn't about to start quacking, but he better prepare himself to sit out the first four games of the season. McNair, meanwhile, needs to understand that as an owner in the NFL he shouldn't undermine the league's drug testing by questioning the results, no matter how desperate he is to see his star linebacker on the field when the Texans host Indianapolis on Sept. 12.

In the meantime, Cushing better hope he never gets busted by the league's doping investigators again.

Because the excuse about the imaginary twin has already been taken.



Sadly enough, the choice of the “Overtraining Athlete Syndrome” defense may very well have branded Cushing, the Texans, our owner and Texans fans as femininely hormonally afflicted. From here on out, you shouldn’t be too surprised if as you make it back to your seat during a game, you suddenly get hit by an opposing fan’s flying tampon.

Pollardized
08-10-2010, 10:19 PM
In search of an out, Cushing finds OAS (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hAWSHQaylbspy8wktBpQHBlR7-GAD9HGFHQ00)
Tim Dahlberg is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press.





Sadly enough, the choice of the “Overtraining Athlete Syndrome” defense may very well have branded Cushing, the Texans, our owner and Texans fans as femininely hormonally afflicted. From here on out, you shouldn’t be too surprised if as you make it back to your seat during a game, you suddenly get hit by an opposing fan’s flying tampon.


Any chance these babies get snuck into the stadium?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_R1GyRN4G3Rs/R9jY6ZvkudI/AAAAAAAAABI/7x-FOH3Idbg/s400/tampon+gun.jpg

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Any chance these babies get snuck into the stadium?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_R1GyRN4G3Rs/R9jY6ZvkudI/AAAAAAAAABI/7x-FOH3Idbg/s400/tampon+gun.jpg

Chances are getting better every day.:facepalm:


Brian Cushing Battles “Overtrained Athlete Syndrome”; Inspires Millions (http://thefastertimes.com/sportschat/2010/08/10/brian-cushing-battles-overtrained-athlete-syndrome-inspires-millions/)

Everybody was so quick to throw Brian Cushing under the bus just because he looks like a roider, acts like a roider, failed an NFL drug test and lost his subsequent appeal. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty, people?

You see, it seems that Brian Cushing didn’t have an elevated level of hCG in his system because he was trying to cover up performance enhancing drug use. It turns out he is just a pregnant woman. No, no, I kid. Although elevated levels of hCG production is most commonly associated with female pregnancy, that is not the problem. It turns out that the misunderstood and maligned Cushing is actually a victim of “Overtrained Athlete’s Syndrom.”

It has been incredibly painful to watch this young man pilloried by the press just because he appears to be completely guilty of doping. But that is the way the world is today. A guy is dogged by steroid rumors for years and fails one teeny, tiny little drug test and suddenly everyone is calling him a cheater. Tsk, tsk.

The only silver lining here is that Cushing’s battle with OAS is sure to inspire millions of people in similar situations. Of course, it won’t do much for other athletes who have failed PED tests due to OAS because Cushing is the only one of those on the face of the Earth. But hopefully Cushing fighting the good fight will give hope to other people struggling with misunderstood syndromes. There are a lot of victims out there with syndromes that fester in the darkness while humanity turns a cold shoulder to their suffering.

Brian Cushing should be shining beacon of light to the victims of these horrible syndromes:

Coital Deprivation Syndrome (CDS) - CDS is one of the leading causes of forgotten anniversaries in the United States of America. CDS tears up homes and ruins families. On the plus side, CDS has the best cure of any known disease.

I Douche Syndrome (IDS) - IDS actually does a pretty good job of thinning out the herd, but unfortunately it also takes out a lot of innocent bystanders. IDS is the result of a chemical imbalance that forces its victims to use any number of mobile phone applications at all times. So the next time you are mashing on your horn and screaming bloody murder at some d-bag who made you miss a red light because he just had to update his status after seeing a guy who looked exactly like “A Man Called Hawk” in the car next to him, remember that you are harassing a sick person.

Chronic Auto-Erotic Discharge Syndrome (CAD) - CAD is one of the most serious threats facing the American workforce today. CAD has an adverse affect on a worker’s efficiency and some estimates claim as high as 65% of all work place tardiness is caused by CAD. CAD often strikes in the morning just before the workday begins. Usually in the shower.

Cowboys Pipe Riding Syndrome (CPRS) - CPRS is a very common disease in males 7-90 across the United States. The syndrome is particularly prevalent in North and Central Texas. Symptoms include, and are limited to, thinking that the Dallas Cowboys are the hands down favorite to win the Super Bowl every single year no matter who is on the team. To the victims, the delusions feel absolutely real. The NFL postseason consistently puts the disease into remission, but CPRS is completely incurable.

That Éclair Was Going To Go Bad Just Sitting There So I Had No Choice But To Eat It Syndrome (TEWGTGBJSTSIHNCBTEIS) - TEWGTGBJSTSIHNCBTEIS is the antithesis of OAS in every way, from its incredibly long acronym to the obesity it causes. Often mistaken for acute laziness and total indifference to dietary hygiene, TEWGTGBJSTSIHNCBTEIS is actually an obsessive compulsive disorder causing victims to stuff their faces with any food left unguarded in the break room refrigerator for more than two hours. Writing your name on your lunch won’t save you from them.

Hopefully, the victims of these various maladies will be able to draw strength from Brian Cushing. There is no reason they should be forced to accept accountability for their shortcomings when they can point a finger at a perfectly good syndrome.

ReliantTexan
08-10-2010, 10:30 PM
Sadly enough, the choice of the “Overtraining Athlete Syndrome” defense may very well have branded Cushing as femininely hormonally afflicted Yeah but you know what they say. Never question another man's manlihood especially when the man in question could rip your arms off. :choke:

THE NFL
08-10-2010, 10:33 PM
Big Ben and Cushing are apples and oranges. The Commish has no authority to reduce Cushings suspension. the NFL CBA with the players dictates the punishment and it is absolute.

The Commish has ultimate authority in Player Conduct.

Kimmy
08-10-2010, 11:12 PM
Did the williamses serve their suspension?

Theirs is dragging out because in Minnesota, it is illegal to use drug testing on the job. They are paid in Minnesota, hence the longer than usual hold out time and why it is now in Federal court.

I'm pretty sure that's what I heard on that today

b0ng
08-10-2010, 11:14 PM
Well, Big Ben has a 6 game suspension that can be reduced to 4. I'm pretty sure if McNair wouldn't be taking the time to go to NYC if he didn't think that he can get it reduced. I would love to see them cut it to two games so he can be there for the Dallas game.

The difference is that when Ben was put on suspension the commissioner said that the suspension would be 4 - 6 weeks pending how he did with programs related to his actions.

Cushing got 4 for violating substance policy with no real leeway to get the suspension reduced. I would find it extremely surprising if his suspension was reduced in any way without lawyers and judges being involved (think the Williams case).

CloakNNNdagger
08-11-2010, 06:30 AM
Theirs is dragging out because in Minnesota, it is illegal to use drug testing on the job. They are paid in Minnesota, hence the longer than usual hold out time and why it is now in Federal court.

I'm pretty sure that's what I heard on that today

You essentially heard correctly. For those interested, here's a very good synopsis of the background and progression of the case."


Minnesota Vikings Pat and Kevin Williams' StarCaps case goes into overtime (http://www.examiner.com/x-1723-Minnesota-Vikings-Examiner~y2009m5d27-Minnesota-Vikings-Pat-and-Kevin-Williams-StarCaps-case-goes-into-overtime)

spurstexanstros
08-11-2010, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by CloaknnndaggerCowboys Pipe Riding Syndrome (CPRS) - CPRS is a very common disease in males 7-90 across the United States. The syndrome is particularly prevalent in North and Central Texas. Symptoms include, and are limited to, thinking that the Dallas Cowboys are the hands down favorite to win the Super Bowl every single year no matter who is on the team. To the victims, the delusions feel absolutely real. The NFL postseason consistently puts the disease into remission, but CPRS is completely incurable.

I would like to add to this.

CPRS also includes the ability to think Cowboys players are the best ever at their position. Urges include: The need to wear other teams gear once the Cowboys are eliminated " Shout Howbout them Cowboys" at inappropriate times like funerals, weddings, court appearances and the occasional slip up during intimate occasions. Those affected by CPRS do not know they have the syndrome and any attempt at intervention will be difficult, so be careful and give them room because they often travel in packs.

barrett
08-11-2010, 08:54 PM
Peter King recently wrote an article about Brian Cushing in which he refers to an hCG expert. The problem is Peter King’s hCG expert misses the point completely. (http://www.texansbullblog.com/peter-kings-hcg-expert-misses-point/featured-articles/)

I'm getting so sick of these inaccurate "news" articles. I know, I know, it's just sports, but they are screwing with someone's career here. It's slander and I'm sick of it.

JB
08-11-2010, 09:00 PM
Peter King recently wrote an article about Brian Cushing in which he refers to an hCG expert. The problem is Peter King’s hCG expert misses the point completely. (http://www.texansbullblog.com/peter-kings-hcg-expert-misses-point/featured-articles/)

I'm getting so sick of these inaccurate "news" articles. I know, I know, it's just sports, but they are screwing with someone's career here. It's slander and I'm sick of it.

Totally agree with you, and a very nice write up!

barrett
08-11-2010, 10:41 PM
Totally agree with you, and a very nice write up!

Thanks JB. As many of you know I have been on the "what are the facts?" bandwagon since this began. I'm not on the "Cushing is innocent." wagon. I'm on just "There aren't enough facts to have a valid opinion." wagon and I'll ride it until the wheels fall off because accusations are just that. It doesn't make them false. I just don't think it's fair to anyone to have literally hundreds of stories written about them that are backed up by fact but are presented as such. It's flat our slander and it's one more reason that I support this organization whole heartedly.

HoustonFrog
08-11-2010, 10:46 PM
Peter King recently wrote an article about Brian Cushing in which he refers to an hCG expert. The problem is Peter King’s hCG expert misses the point completely. (http://www.texansbullblog.com/peter-kings-hcg-expert-misses-point/featured-articles/)

I'm getting so sick of these inaccurate "news" articles. I know, I know, it's just sports, but they are screwing with someone's career here. It's slander and I'm sick of it.

This was all discussed a page earlier by CnD and others. Nothing the guy said was wrong. He said that most of the results are correct AND that most of them are from being injected. They then point out the few, rare instances of it not being injected. As CnD pointed out, most players don't test positive, so the 999 out of a 1000 is for the rare positive result, thus knocking the percentages down further. I think the point may be missed in this instance. I'm not saying this as an indictment but the doctor is just explaining the percentages....very, very small percentages.

JB
08-11-2010, 10:53 PM
Thanks JB. As many of you know I have been on the "what are the facts?" bandwagon since this began. I'm not on the "Cushing is innocent." wagon. I'm on just "There aren't enough facts to have a valid opinion." wagon and I'll ride it until the wheels fall off because accusations are just that. It doesn't make them false. I just don't think it's fair to anyone to have literally hundreds of stories written about them that are backed up by fact but are notpresented as such. It's flat our slander and it's one more reason that I support this organization whole heartedly.

Barrett, I totally am with ya on what you are saying, but your fingers were flying a little fast and you left out one key word. The one thing that is never mentioned (or not enough), is that Cushing is the only player ever to be tested positive for hcg. And if they would not have lowered the baseline last year, he would not have tested positive.

So many people always comment on the fact that he works out harder than anybody they have ever seen. So, why is it that he has to be on 'roids, and taking a masking agent, hcg (which it is not), and cheating the game of football?

I agree that his comments do not help him, because they sound pretty far-fetched, but I choose to believe that is because he does not want to lie to people. I truly believe that he was told he has a variation of, or something similar to, OTS (or whatever the hell they caliing it).


I'm a homer, and I'm proud of it!

:texflag::fans:

BIG TORO
08-12-2010, 08:13 AM
Any updates on this, Was'nt the commish suppose to make a decision yesterday?

Double Barrel
08-12-2010, 11:19 AM
Thanks JB. As many of you know I have been on the "what are the facts?" bandwagon since this began. I'm not on the "Cushing is innocent." wagon. I'm on just "There aren't enough facts to have a valid opinion." wagon and I'll ride it until the wheels fall off because accusations are just that. It doesn't make them false. I just don't think it's fair to anyone to have literally hundreds of stories written about them that are backed up by fact but are presented as such. It's flat our slander and it's one more reason that I support this organization whole heartedly.

That road goes both ways. Where are Cushing's experts in the medical field coming forth to substantiate his claims? The entire medical profession that has come forth publicly directly opposes his claims, especially the condition and symptoms of 'overtrained athlete syndrome'. At this point, there is no credible evidence from Cushing's side to support his claims, and unless an educated and respected opinion comes forth to put their repuation on the line with hard data, it just sounds like he's grasping for straws to the general public and media.

And the reason the media keeps writing about it is because Cushing and the Texans are keeping the story in the spotlight. So there can't be any griping about stories being written when the subject is perpetuated by Cushing himself.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he's a Houston Texan, but I'm not going to deny that my Spidey sense is going off like crazy with this story. I don't want to believe that his side is being disingenuous, but I can understand why many folks perceive it that way at this point in time.

HOU-TEX
08-12-2010, 11:25 AM
Maybe it's just me, but has anyone else thought that the "overtrained athlete syndrome" might be a cover-up? Maybe he has a problem with his "package" and doesn't want to public to find out what it is? Maybe I'm just spit-ballin here? Or maybe I'm just hoping McNair didn't go all the way to NY to drop the "overtrained athlete syndrome" bull-butter on Goodell?

JB
08-12-2010, 11:45 AM
Maybe it's just me, but has anyone else thought that the "overtrained athlete syndrome" might be a cover-up? Maybe he has a problem with his "package" and doesn't want to public to find out what it is? Maybe I'm just spit-ballin here? Or maybe I'm just hoping McNair didn't go all the way to NY to drop the "overtrained athlete syndrome" bull-butter on Goodell?

I can't get myself to believe that that is what they really took to NY. McNair took a lot of medical info, and said he met with the NFL's medical staff for quite awhile, and the staff was going to further review the info. Perhaps Cushing was trying to put a complicated diagnosis into layman's terms or the closest he could come to it.

beerlover
08-12-2010, 01:19 PM
That road goes both ways. Where are Cushing's experts in the medical field coming forth to substantiate his claims? The entire medical profession that has come forth publicly directly opposes his claims, especially the condition and symptoms of 'overtrained athlete syndrome'. At this point, there is no credible evidence from Cushing's side to support his claims, and unless an educated and respected opinion comes forth to put their repuation on the line with hard data, it just sounds like he's grasping for straws to the general public and media.

And the reason the media keeps writing about it is because Cushing and the Texans are keeping the story in the spotlight. So there can't be any griping about stories being written when the subject is perpetuated by Cushing himself.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he's a Houston Texan, but I'm not going to deny that my Spidey sense is going off like crazy with this story. I don't want to believe that his side is being disingenuous, but I can understand why many folks perceive it that way at this point in time.

my beer intincts tell me this concoction is out of balance, over the top with adjuncts which is going to leave a bitter taste in everyones mouth :beerfunnel:

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2010, 01:44 PM
I think McNair had a ton more stuff than what he or Cush can or will say to the media.

At least, I hope they did.

Ryan
08-12-2010, 01:50 PM
When is Goodell's decision?

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2010, 01:55 PM
When is Goodell's decision?

I don't think there's any set deadline for it. He'll tell us when he tells us.

JB
08-12-2010, 02:02 PM
I don't think there's any set deadline for it. He'll tell us when he tells us.

If he tells us.

HOU-TEX
08-12-2010, 02:29 PM
When is Goodell's decision?

I don't think there's any set deadline for it. He'll tell us when he tells us.

If he tells us.

Well, I'd have to believe it'd be before week 1.

I reckon if he was feeling dickish and thought this whole OAS was idiotic, he could give his ruling after the Raiders game.

Big Lou
08-12-2010, 03:39 PM
I don't think there's any set deadline for it. He'll tell us when he tells us.


Probably around week 5 of the regular season.........

HuttoKarl
08-12-2010, 03:53 PM
probably around week 5 of the regular season.........

rep!

Trail.Blazr
08-12-2010, 03:53 PM
Well, I'd have to believe it'd be before week 1.

I reckon if he was feeling dickish and thought this whole OAS was idiotic, he could give his ruling after the Raiders game.


This is one of the things I don't like about the office Goodell holds.

What "if" he did have it in for a particular player or team? I'm not saying he does, and really don't get a feeling it applies here, but shouldn't these types of things that can have appeals turned down, etc... be handled by a committee, rather than an individual? It's not like Goodell owns the NFL. Too much power for one person in a big buisiness product that is professional sports.

HOU-TEX
08-12-2010, 04:01 PM
This is one of the things I don't like about the office Goodell holds.

What "if" he did have it in for a particular player or team? I'm not saying he does, and really don't get a feeling it applies here, but shouldn't these types of things that can have appeals turned down, etc... be handled by a committee, rather than an individual? It's not like Goodell owns the NFL. Too much power for one person in a big buisiness product that is professional sports.

In practically every public decision he's made he has referred to other people. Whether it be Doctors, Police, Lawyers, etc.

wagonhed
08-12-2010, 04:06 PM
Has noone here ever heard of overtraining, or being an overtrained athlete? It has serious symptoms and side-effects that you wouldn't expect. It's a real "state" (if it isn't technically a medical condition) where your body starts doing weird things. Anyone that has any experience bodybuilding should know about it.

HOU-TEX
08-12-2010, 04:32 PM
Has noone here ever heard of overtraining, or being an overtrained athlete? It has serious symptoms and side-effects that you wouldn't expect. It's a real "state" (if it isn't technically a medical condition) where your body starts doing weird things. Anyone that has any experience bodybuilding should know about it.

I think we've all hear of overtraining. It's just Cushing didn't appear to be suffering from any of the normal symptoms of overtraining. The dude was a beast on the field every day.

I'm sure practically athlete who's lifted weights for a long period of time or trained for a particular sport has suffered from overtraining. I have, but wasn't playing ball at the time and could afford taking the time off to get right.

Mr teX
08-12-2010, 04:39 PM
Has noone here ever heard of overtraining, or being an overtrained athlete? It has serious symptoms and side-effects that you wouldn't expect. It's a real "state" (if it isn't technically a medical condition) where your body starts doing weird things. Anyone that has any experience bodybuilding should know about it.

Well according to Dr. First (sp?) on 610 this morning, he nor any of his colleagues whose opinion he respects, have ever heard of it as a "syndrome" so to speak. He likens it to being a "miracle" discovery if whatever cush & his people are trying to push is true. but, you can also tell he's biased about the whole ordeal anyway for what its worth..........can't say i blame him though.

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2010, 04:41 PM
I think we've all hear of overtraining. It's just Cushing didn't appear to be suffering from any of the normal symptoms of overtraining. The dude was a beast on the field every day.

I'm sure practically athlete who's lifted weights for a long period of time or trained for a particular sport has suffered from overtraining. I have, but wasn't playing ball at the time and could afford taking the time off to get right.

The thing is, in some of the more modern lifting regimens, there's a planned use of the overtraining effect. If you push yourself into an overtrained state and then follow that with a strategic deload, you get all sorts of hormonal rebound effects. I don't know that those rebound effects have been fully studied.

I would not be surprised if Cush wasn't using a similar sort of routine (although such a routine would have been antithetical to Ray Wright.)

Gawd. I'd love to know the actual arguments and evidence.

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2010, 04:48 PM
Well according to Dr. First (sp?) on 610 this morning, he nor any of his colleagues whose opinion he respects, have ever heard of it as a "syndrome" so to speak. He likens it to being a "miracle" discovery if whatever cush & his people are trying to push is true. but, you can also tell he's biased about the whole ordeal anyway for what its worth..........can't say i blame him though.

I'll just say this.

According to doctors, using steroids provides no benefit whatsoever. They don't make you bigger, faster, or stronger. They studied it. They knew all about it.

This was in the 50's. When bodybuilders and strength athletes were first starting to experiment with steroids. And the doctors of the time said that the stuff wouldn't work.

Of course, in their studies, they were using such low doses of steroids that they were right. There was no effect at that level but lifters were using steroids at over 10-15 times the amount.

Now, there may not be an actual "syndrome" that's been studied and named for being overtrained. BUT... if a doctor expects an athlete or the owner of a sports franchise who is not doctor to use medical terms exactly, then he needs to broaden his horizons a little bit. Overtraining is well known. There have been some (not enough) studies of it.

This reminds me of a famous doctor that my wife worked with back in the late 80's. He refused to call a word processing program an "editor" because an "editor" is a person who looks over your manuscript after you're done with it. He corrected everyone who talked about a text editor and informed them that they were using the word incorrectly.

Mr teX
08-12-2010, 04:55 PM
I'll just say this.

According to doctors, using steroids provides no benefit whatsoever. They don't make you bigger, faster, or stronger. They studied it. They knew all about it.

This was in the 50's. When bodybuilders and strength athletes were first starting to experiment with steroids. And the doctors of the time said that the stuff wouldn't work.

Of course, in their studies, they were using such low doses of steroids that they were right. There was no effect at that level but lifters were using steroids at over 10-15 times the amount.

Now, there may not be an actual "syndrome" that's been studied and named for being overtrained. BUT... if a doctor expects an athlete or the owner of a sports franchise who is not doctor to use medical terms exactly, then he needs to broaden his horizons a little bit. Overtraining is well known. There have been some (not enough) studies of it.

This reminds me of a famous doctor that my wife worked with back in the late 80's. He refused to call a word processing program an "editor" because an "editor" is a person who looks over your manuscript after you're done with it. He corrected everyone who talked about a text editor and informed them that they were using the word incorrectly.

I agree wholeheartedly with your overall point in this post. Doctors get paid to "practice" medicine.......& that they do.

Showtime100
08-12-2010, 05:01 PM
I'll just say this.

According to doctors, using steroids provides no benefit whatsoever. They don't make you bigger, faster, or stronger. They studied it. They knew all about it.

This was in the 50's. When bodybuilders and strength athletes were first starting to experiment with steroids. And the doctors of the time said that the stuff wouldn't work.

Of course, in their studies, they were using such low doses of steroids that they were right. There was no effect at that level but lifters were using steroids at over 10-15 times the amount.

Now, there may not be an actual "syndrome" that's been studied and named for being overtrained. BUT... if a doctor expects an athlete or the owner of a sports franchise who is not doctor to use medical terms exactly, then he needs to broaden his horizons a little bit. Overtraining is well known. There have been some (not enough) studies of it.

This reminds me of a famous doctor that my wife worked with back in the late 80's. He refused to call a word processing program an "editor" because an "editor" is a person who looks over your manuscript after you're done with it. He corrected everyone who talked about a text editor and informed them that they were using the word incorrectly.

Really good insight PN. I know this is a subject you are close to and hearing your opinions on the matter are always interesting reading. :thumbup

The bolded part is great...lol. I guess I need to rethink what I call my beer holder, dishwasher, coffee maker............. :fans:

HOU-TEX
08-12-2010, 05:01 PM
The thing is, in some of the more modern lifting regimens, there's a planned use of the overtraining effect. If you push yourself into an overtrained state and then follow that with a strategic deload, you get all sorts of hormonal rebound effects. I don't know that those rebound effects have been fully studied.

I would not be surprised if Cush wasn't using a similar sort of routine (although such a routine would have been antithetical to Ray Wright.)

Gawd. I'd love to know the actual arguments and evidence.

But still, the way I'd define overtraining would be, hitting a plateau, physically and emotionally drained, possible weight loss and even stomach and bowel disruption. Obviously, a simplified definition, but Cushing never appeared to suffer any of the more obvious symptoms of overtraining. Which we would've likely seen on the field.

I'd like to see the evidence too. My bet is it doesn't have much to do with this overtraining mumbo-jumbo

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2010, 06:12 PM
But still, the way I'd define overtraining would be, hitting a plateau, physically and emotionally drained, possible weight loss and even stomach and bowel disruption. Obviously, a simplified definition, but Cushing never appeared to suffer any of the more obvious symptoms of overtraining. Which we would've likely seen on the field.

I'd like to see the evidence too. My bet is it doesn't have much to do with this overtraining mumbo-jumbo

If you're chronically overtrained, then yeah, those are the symptoms you get. But what some of the current regimens do is they take you to the brink of overtraining and then back off. So you don't show any overt symptoms, yet. Then when you deload your routine, you get (supposedly, at least) a hormone spike and increased recovery.

CloakNNNdagger
08-12-2010, 06:58 PM
Maybe it's just me, but has anyone else thought that the "overtrained athlete syndrome" might be a cover-up? Maybe he has a problem with his "package" and doesn't want to public to find out what it is? Maybe I'm just spit-ballin here? Or maybe I'm just hoping McNair didn't go all the way to NY to drop the "overtrained athlete syndrome" bull-butter on Goodell?

HCG can be used to stimulate testosterone production by the testes to counteract a "small package." But a "small package" does not produce an increase in HCG to counteract that "small package."

Number19
08-12-2010, 07:23 PM
That road goes both ways. Where are Cushing's experts in the medical field coming forth to substantiate his claims?...Come on...don't you realize that Cushing has had legal advice as well as the medical testing. If there is any remote chance that this will end up in a courtroom, any lawyer is going to advise that you don't talk.

In his first major interview, back a few days ago now, Cushing made some kind of broad statement about the OAS, and then made the statement : "...that was all he could say for now".

Cjeremy635
08-12-2010, 07:26 PM
Come on...don't you realize that Cushing has had legal advice as well as the medical testing. If there is any remote chance that this will end up in a courtroom, any lawyer is going to advise that you don't talk.

In his first major interview, back a few days ago now, Cushing made some kind of broad statement about the OAS, and then made the statement : "...that was all he could say for now".

I specifically remember that and I did think it was a little odd at the time. I never looked at it from a "taking it to court" angle. Makes sense.

Double Barrel
08-12-2010, 07:40 PM
Come on...don't you realize that Cushing has had legal advice as well as the medical testing. If there is any remote chance that this will end up in a courtroom, any lawyer is going to advise that you don't talk.

In his first major interview, back a few days ago now, Cushing made some kind of broad statement about the OAS, and then made the statement : "...that was all he could say for now".

His legal counsel would have advised him to keep his mouth shut months ago.

I would be very surprised if there is any legal action against the NFL by an individual player or franchise regarding this case.

Until then, the weight of the medical and scientific community is solidly against his current excuse/reason. I would dig nothing more than to see credible evidence and/or research that supports his claim in any capacity.

Honoring Earl 34
08-12-2010, 07:45 PM
His legal counsel would have advised him to keep his mouth shut months ago.

I would be very surprised if there is any legal action against the NFL by an individual player or franchise regarding this case.

Until then, the weight of the medical and scientific community is solidly against his current excuse/reason. I would dig nothing more than to see credible evidence and/or research that supports his claim in any capacity.

No doubt , I would love an expert say look at his ___ he didn't do it . Heck ... I would like Barry Bonds to say hmmm ... nope .

If he hires a lawyer , at least he doesn't have a wife and kids to get drug through the mud .

JB
08-12-2010, 07:45 PM
His legal counsel would have advised him to keep his mouth shut months ago.

I would be very surprised if there is any legal action against the NFL by an individual player or franchise regarding this case.

Until then, the weight of the medical and scientific community is solidly against his current excuse/reason. I would dig nothing more than to see credible evidence and/or research that supports his claim in any capacity.

That is just it. No one is going to believe him until he makes his "new evidence" public. And many won't then, even if it's credible. Just chaps me that people are still saying he took it to mask steroids.

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2010, 07:47 PM
That is just it. No one is going to believe him until he makes his "new evidence" public. And many won't then, even if it's credible. Just chaps me that people are still saying he took it to mask steroids.

McClain from the Chronicle is even still saying that.

JB
08-12-2010, 07:52 PM
McClain from the Chronicle is even still saying that.

Doesn't surprise me. McGobbler is clueless

Number19
08-12-2010, 08:21 PM
I posed a question back at #263 that didn't get a bite. I, for one, don't think Cushing is stupid.

Cushing's first publicly revealed test indicating elevated levels of hCG was back in September, when only one of the two samples exceeded the allowable level.

According to all the suspicion, Cushing then disregarded the warning from the league, and the warning that this might indicate he had problems with a tumor, and continued to take the banned substance until testing positive with both samples in November.

You talk about implausible, this definitely fits the bill. Why anyone would believe this is beyond my comprehension.

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2010, 11:25 PM
I posed a question back at #263 that didn't get a bite. I, for one, don't think Cushing is stupid.

Cushing's first publicly revealed test indicating elevated levels of hCG was back in September, when only one of the two samples exceeded the allowable level.

According to all the suspicion, Cushing then disregarded the warning from the league, and the warning that this might indicate he had problems with a tumor, and continued to take the banned substance until testing positive with both samples in November.

You talk about implausible, this definitely fits the bill. Why anyone would believe this is beyond my comprehension.

We don't know when Cush was informed of the "almost" positive. Normally, guys aren't notified of their results unless they fail.

So, he could have been taking something not realizing that it was raising his hCG levels.

Although, I've been fairly adamant in defending the possibility that Cush is innocent, I've frequently stated that I think that Cush was taking some new cutting edge performance enhancing drug (that's probably legal and hasn't been banned because no one knows about it) and didn't know that it would have a side effect of rasing his hCG. He didn't realize that his hCG levels were going up (or possibly thought they would only go up to high but not "fail" levels) until he was notified that he'd failed the test. I think he stopped taking the drug then and his hCG level went down... or he possibly is still taking the drug, just less of it, which is keeping his hCG level somewhat boosted so that it looks like it's a natural condition of some sort. If that's the case, then when he says he didn't take hCG, he's basically telling the truth because he didn't take hCG directly; it was just an unintended/unexpected side effect.

But there's no proof of any of that. That's just what I believe is going on.

Barring some weird new drug, I don't see any reason for Cush to have been taking hCG in the first place. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Seńor Stan
08-13-2010, 07:20 AM
I posed a question back at #263 that didn't get a bite. I, for one, don't think Cushing is stupid.

Cushing's first publicly revealed test indicating elevated levels of hCG was back in September, when only one of the two samples exceeded the allowable level.

According to all the suspicion, Cushing then disregarded the warning from the league, and the warning that this might indicate he had problems with a tumor, and continued to take the banned substance until testing positive with both samples in November.

You talk about implausible, this definitely fits the bill. Why anyone would believe this is beyond my comprehension.

I'll bite...

Raisin sized testes > risk of 4 game suspension

Number19
08-13-2010, 11:42 AM
We don't know when Cush was informed of the "almost" positive. Normally, guys aren't notified of their results unless they fail.

So, he could have been taking something not realizing that it was raising his hCG levels.

Although, I've been fairly adamant in defending the possibility that Cush is innocent, I've frequently stated that I think that Cush was taking some new cutting edge performance enhancing drug (that's probably legal and hasn't been banned because no one knows about it) and didn't know that it would have a side effect of rasing his hCG. He didn't realize that his hCG levels were going up (or possibly thought they would only go up to high but not "fail" levels) until he was notified that he'd failed the test. I think he stopped taking the drug then and his hCG level went down... or he possibly is still taking the drug, just less of it, which is keeping his hCG level somewhat boosted so that it looks like it's a natural condition of some sort. If that's the case, then when he says he didn't take hCG, he's basically telling the truth because he didn't take hCG directly; it was just an unintended/unexpected side effect.

But there's no proof of any of that. That's just what I believe is going on.

Barring some weird new drug, I don't see any reason for Cush to have been taking hCG in the first place. That doesn't make any sense to me.Good response with good reasoning. Some of this was the first things I thought, but then I remembered Cushing saying he was playing the season while worried about the possibility of having a tumor problem. He surely had begun his medical evaluations during this period.

Back last January I began having, what was suspected, a prescription drug interaction problem. The first thing the doctor wanted to know was EVERYTHING I was ingesting into my body and had me quit everything except my two blood pressure medications. I was told my body would begin to cleanse itself of the vitamins and drugs within about two weeks.

The only facts I know are what I get from this board, the Houston Chronicle and the radio. Not many have anything more; and knowing what we do know, I find it hard to understand why so many have doubts.

infantrycak
08-13-2010, 11:44 AM
We don't know when Cush was informed of the "almost" positive. Normally, guys aren't notified of their results unless they fail.

The NFL protocol calls for notification after the A sample fails because the player is allowed to have a representative witness the testing of the B sample so sometime in September Cushing was notified the A sample was positive.

stevn8r
08-13-2010, 11:58 AM
I'll bite...

Raisin sized testes > risk of 4 game suspension

You'll bite raisin sized testes?!?
EEEWWWWW! :spit:

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2010, 12:19 PM
The NFL protocol calls for notification after the A sample fails because the player is allowed to have a representative witness the testing of the B sample so sometime in September Cushing was notified the A sample was positive.

So, he got the notification of the almost fail. Then got the notification of the full fail.

eriadoc
08-13-2010, 12:37 PM
Barring some weird new drug, I don't see any reason for Cush to have been taking hCG in the first place. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I'll hazard a guess - to kickstart his system after a cycle. I know, I know ... no player would be dumb enough to use old technology, blahdeblahdeblah. Occam's Razor.

Double Barrel
08-13-2010, 12:40 PM
We don't know when Cush was informed of the "almost" positive. Normally, guys aren't notified of their results unless they fail.

So, he could have been taking something not realizing that it was raising his hCG levels.

Although, I've been fairly adamant in defending the possibility that Cush is innocent, I've frequently stated that I think that Cush was taking some new cutting edge performance enhancing drug (that's probably legal and hasn't been banned because no one knows about it) and didn't know that it would have a side effect of rasing his hCG. He didn't realize that his hCG levels were going up (or possibly thought they would only go up to high but not "fail" levels) until he was notified that he'd failed the test. I think he stopped taking the drug then and his hCG level went down... or he possibly is still taking the drug, just less of it, which is keeping his hCG level somewhat boosted so that it looks like it's a natural condition of some sort. If that's the case, then when he says he didn't take hCG, he's basically telling the truth because he didn't take hCG directly; it was just an unintended/unexpected side effect.

But there's no proof of any of that. That's just what I believe is going on.

Barring some weird new drug, I don't see any reason for Cush to have been taking hCG in the first place. That doesn't make any sense to me.

All very plausible, man, and I respect your opinion about it.

However, if this is the case, then he's lying through his teeth about potential tumors and obviously 'overtrained athlete syndrome'.

If he was taking a cutting-edge supplement that had a negative side effect of raising his hCG, then he just needs to fess up and take his suspension like a man. It would certainly make sense and save his credibility among the general public and media, if all that matters to him in any regard.

hobie
08-13-2010, 12:42 PM
All very plausible, man, and I respect your opinion about it.

However, if this is the case, then he's lying through his teeth about potential tumors and obviously 'overtrained athlete syndrome'.

If he was taking a cutting-edge supplement that had a negative side effect of raising his hCG, then he just needs to fess up and take his suspension like a man. It would certainly make sense and save his credibility among the general public and media, if all that matters to him in any regard.

There you go again DB, making sense out of things ......

eriadoc
08-13-2010, 12:47 PM
You know, there might be another explanation. Wasn't there a female athlete sort of recently that tested for too much testosterone, but in the end it turned out she was a he? Or something similar?

Ehh, I don't know. I'm just trying to stretch my arms out as much as some of y'all. :)

gary
08-13-2010, 12:47 PM
Any word on his suspension in regards to his time yet?

HOU-TEX
08-13-2010, 12:52 PM
All very plausible, man, and I respect your opinion about it.

However, if this is the case, then he's lying through his teeth about potential tumors and obviously 'overtrained athlete syndrome'.

If he was taking a cutting-edge supplement that had a negative side effect of raising his hCG, then he just needs to fess up and take his suspension like a man. It would certainly make sense and save his credibility among the general public and media, if all that matters to him in any regard.

IIRC, it was the NFL that mentioned tumors. Supposedly, when he failed they told him to get checked out immediately due to the possibility of tumors.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2010, 01:04 PM
I'll hazard a guess - to kickstart his system after a cycle. I know, I know ... no player would be dumb enough to use old technology, blahdeblahdeblah. Occam's Razor.

Then he should have tested positive for steroids.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2010, 01:07 PM
All very plausible, man, and I respect your opinion about it.

However, if this is the case, then he's lying through his teeth about potential tumors and obviously 'overtrained athlete syndrome'.

If he was taking a cutting-edge supplement that had a negative side effect of raising his hCG, then he just needs to fess up and take his suspension like a man. It would certainly make sense and save his credibility among the general public and media, if all that matters to him in any regard.

That's a possibility. I mean, it's not like someone hasn't ever taken PEDs and then lied like hell about it.

But... it's also possible that he's not.

There aren't very many things worse than telling the truth and no one believing you.

disaacks3
08-13-2010, 01:16 PM
Then he should have tested positive for steroids. Not if it had been long enough since he "cycled". A new high-tech masking agent or new "balm to make your ba**s grow" would be just as likely.

That's a possibility. I mean, it's not like someone hasn't ever taken PEDs and then lied like hell about it.

But... it's also possible that he's not.

There aren't very many things worse than telling the truth and no one believing you. True, but the chance that he's that 1 in 100,000 exception to the established testing is a helluva lot more likely.

Double Barrel
08-13-2010, 01:29 PM
IIRC, it was the NFL that mentioned tumors. Supposedly, when he failed they told him to get checked out immediately due to the possibility of tumors.

ahh, that's right. I just remembered his press conference when he talked about it, but the origin of the tumor story was that he was told that the only way for his hCG to be elevated was "through injection or a tumor".

That's a possibility. I mean, it's not like someone hasn't ever taken PEDs and then lied like hell about it.

But... it's also possible that he's not.

There aren't very many things worse than telling the truth and no one believing you.

Very true, and his position has been consistent with that of a man trying to prove his innocence in the face of massive public doubt. Of course, we've seen other athletes do the same, so it's made us somewhat jaded in that regard.

infantrycak
08-13-2010, 01:42 PM
So, he got the notification of the almost fail. Then got the notification of the full fail.

He would have been notified in September when the A sample was positive. Then the B test was negative so overall the test was considered negative. Then when he was tested the second time he would have again have been notified the A sample was positive so he could have a representative. That B sample came back positive so it was a positive test resulting in the suspension. What's interesting is there was a report that not only he but someone with the Texans was "warned" which has never been fully explored by the press. Did Brian go talk to someone in strength in conditioning, the doctor or was that just errant information? We have a new strength coach now who was hired shortly after this broke.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2010, 01:48 PM
Not if it had been long enough since he "cycled". A new high-tech masking agent or new "balm to make your ba**s grow" would be just as likely..

No.

You don't wait between stopping your cycle and when you start using hCG or Clomid or something to get your natural testosterone going. You start it up immediately after or even as you're ramping the testosterone down. That just doesn't jibe with the time frame of the first almost positive and then the second definitely positive test.

I mean, I guess it would be possible to test positive for hCG and not steroids if they caught you at the very tail end of your hCG cycle. But then your hCG would tail off, not ramp back up. Your most POSITIVE test would have been the first test, not the second.

If they caught you right as you began your hCG cycle (which is when your hCG should be the highest, I think), then you'd test positive for both steroids and hCG. If they caught you at the tail end of your hCG cycle, you might not test positive for steroids but you could test positive for hCG. But like I said, if they took two tests at the tail end of that hCG cycle, the level would decrease over time.

At least, that's what would make sense to me.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2010, 01:50 PM
He would have been notified in September when the A sample was positive. Then the B test was negative so overall the test was considered negative. Then when he was tested the second time he would have again have been notified the A sample was positive so he could have a representative. That B sample came back positive so it was a positive test resulting in the suspension. What's interesting is there was a report that not only he but someone with the Texans was "warned" which has never been fully explored by the press. Did Brian go talk to someone in strength in conditioning, the doctor or was that just errant information? We have a new strength coach now who was hired shortly after this broke.

That's what I'm saying. In September, he got the almost fail. Then later, he got tested again and got a full fail.

IIRC, that report said that Ray Wright got informed about it or Brian talked to him about it or something. At the time, it sounded like Brian was taking something that Ray had suggested that he take.

infantrycak
08-13-2010, 02:01 PM
IIRC, that report said that Ray Wright got informed about it or Brian talked to him about it or something. At the time, it sounded like Brian was taking something that Ray had suggested that he take.

That's how I recall the report as well. Cloak and I were talking about that yesterday. I don't know if it was bad reporting initially or no follow up. Now Cloak did say there really isn't any evidence of oral ingestion of hcg passing through to a urine test.

eriadoc
08-13-2010, 02:40 PM
Ah ha! I found it!

LINK (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2009/09/10/2009-09-10_caster_semenya_.html)

Tests show that controversial runner Caster Semenya is a woman ...and a man!

The 18-year-old South African champ has no womb or ovaries and her testosterone levels are more than three times higher than those of a normal female, according to reports.

The tests, ordered by The International Association of Athletics Federations after Semenya's 800-meter victory in the World Championships, determined she's a hermaphrodite - having both male and female organs.

Einhorn is a man! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSPtSEIlp8A&feature=related)

TEXANRED
08-13-2010, 03:31 PM
Should we really care if an athlete takes a performance enhancer? And if they do care tell me why should I?

All of the weight training, special diets, biking, running, yoga, mountain climbing, and whatever other activity they do is all a performance enhancer.

I think it should be the athletes choice if they take or not. Its been proven the guys who do have short careers. Look at the Boz, or David Boston.

If we want a pure league then we would pick up guys off the street and slap a jersey on them and tell them to go play.

But who the hell wants to watch that?

dalemurphy
08-13-2010, 03:57 PM
Should we really care if an athlete takes a performance enhancer? And if they do care tell me why should I?

All of the weight training, special diets, biking, running, yoga, mountain climbing, and whatever other activity they do is all a performance enhancer.

I think it should be the athletes choice if they take or not. Its been proven the guys who do have short careers. Look at the Boz, or David Boston.

If we want a pure league then we would pick up guys off the street and slap a jersey on them and tell them to go play.

But who the hell wants to watch that?

Really? You are asking why we should care if a player is performing because he is cheating. Of course we should care.

It is perfectly reasonable to argue that these enhancers should be legal. However, until they are, then how could you not care that some players are gaining an unfair advantage? Don't you care when the opposing team gets away with holding or pass interference?

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2010, 04:33 PM
Really? You are asking why we should care if a player is performing because he is cheating. Of course we should care.

It is perfectly reasonable to argue that these enhancers should be legal. However, until they are, then how could you not care that some players are gaining an unfair advantage? Don't you care when the opposing team gets away with holding or pass interference?

It's really weird. I'm one of those guys who's a real stickler about cheating. I hate guys who do "anything" to win: the people who try to give hand signals across the table when they're playing cads and stuff like that. If I happen to see someone's cards, I tell them what I saw.

But I feel absolutely nothing about athletes taking drugs to improve their performance. Even though I compete in PL tournaments (in drug-free associations), if someone else is taking drugs... I really don't care. If a football player is taking drugs to improve their performance, I really don't care. I probably should but to be perfectly honest, I don't.

For a long time, you could have taken steroids or some other performance enhancing drug and it would have been perfectly legal and above board. Anabolic Steroids weren't made a Schedule III illegal drug until 1993. There are still "legal" ways to take steroids although if you're an athlete, you will get popped for having them in your system.

If you're wanting to be intellectually consistent about performance enhancement, then you've got to ban painkillers and anti-inflammatories, too. There's nothing more performance enhancing than being able to take a drug that allows you to play when you couldn't otherwise play.

Because of the demonization of steroids and the black market that's been created, you've got a bunch of ignorant athletes in high school and college (and even the pros, probably) who hide that they're doing legal supplements like creatine because they think that they're steroids... and then you've got guys taking things that they shouldn't be taking, things that can kill an injure them without giving them any performance enhancement, because they read somewhere or heard somewhere that such and such compound is some sort of athletic panacea. Not to mention the guys that get stuff black market that may or may not be steroids at all.

A few years ago, lots of bodybuilders started experimenting with taking a type of rat poison because it boosts your metabolism and causes you to burn a ton of fat. The problem is that the dose that you're taking has to be extremely precise. A little too little and it doesn't do anything; a little too much and it kills you. And the thing about athletes and the athletic mind set is that they're fine with running that risk.

So, personally, I think performance enhancing drugs should be legal under doctor's supervision and I believe that the long term effects should be studied. I think that a more open environment would allow us to develop some drugs that could benefit a lot of people and give us better and healthier athletes.

But, that's just me.

BillytheKid
08-13-2010, 05:23 PM
:pissed::pissed:Cush didn`t use steroids as pro sports currently defines them. Additionally the selective enforcement that the NFL practices is hypocritical, either implement consistant, across the board enforcement or shut the hell up.

THE NFL
08-13-2010, 07:19 PM
Anabolic Steriods were made a class III drug in 1990, not 1993.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2010, 07:24 PM
Anabolic Steriods were made a class III drug in 1990, not 1993.

Damn. I remembered it as '93. Getting old sux.

DexmanC
08-13-2010, 07:32 PM
True, but the chance that he's that 1 in 100,000 exception to the established testing is a helluva lot more likely.

EXACTLY! Don't you guys watch "House, M.D.?"

He ONLY deals with cases that are, to quote Brian Cushing,
"beyond the regular medical doctor."

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2010, 07:44 PM
Damn. I remembered it as '93. Getting old sux.

I can't even defend myself by saying I was confusing it with the DHSEA supplement law because that was '94.

CloakNNNdagger
08-13-2010, 09:01 PM
Damn. I remembered it as '93. Getting old sux.

Yeah, but keep thinking about the alternative.:thinking:


I wonder how many here realize that injectable HCG is also classified a Class III drug.

CloakNNNdagger
08-13-2010, 09:29 PM
For those that may be interested:

Although this review of the chronological History of Anabolic Steroid Drug Classification and Related Law (http://www.elitefitness.com/members/steroidlaw/history.htm) re. possession and distribution downplays the support of the medical community to classify them as Schedule III, this fact must be qualified. The medical community then, and increasingly so since, has shared a great concern over the long term significant consequences of anabolic steroids. However, there has always been a reluctance by physicians to attach criminality to such use........something that by its Schedule III classification by both federal and state statutes, is automatically assigned.

C Madd
08-13-2010, 10:35 PM
If anyone is wondering or confused about the schedule talk, schedules are classifications (I through V) of controlled substances based on potential for abuse and accepted medical use in the US. For example, Schedule I narcotics are crack, meth, heroin. Schedule II are drugs like adderall, oxycodone, morphine and III contains Vicodin. The higher the risk of abuse, the lower the schedule number.

The definition of anabolic steroid was changed in 2004. That year they removed the requirement to prove muscle growth.