PDA

View Full Version : Jacoby Jones #2 WR?


RipTraxx
08-06-2010, 11:07 AM
We're all aware of 'coach speak' and Kubes could very likely be saying these things to boost his confidence...

However, how many of you think this is a likely scenario?

Thorn
08-06-2010, 11:09 AM
JJ is not Walter, they need a route runner with good hands as the number 2 reciever. If JJ is really that improved, he will get more plays, but he wouldn't be number 2. Not in Kubiac's offense.

rmartin65
08-06-2010, 11:11 AM
I think JJ serves one more year as the number 3. Walter is getting paid like a 2, and he is a very reliable 2. Until J proves to me his hands and route running ability, he stays number 3.

Goldensilence
08-06-2010, 11:18 AM
I'm not saying they're going to be interchangeable but, it wouldn't surprise me to see them more in a 2a and 2b sort of situation if Jones can continue to make big plays in the passing game. Other than AJ we don't have speed in our top 4 that plays consistently.

Goatcheese
08-06-2010, 11:32 AM
I think JJ serves one more year as the number 3. Walter is getting paid like a 2, and he is a very reliable 2. Until J proves to me his hands and route running ability, he stays number 3.

I definitely think he has something to prove before we start talking about him as unseating Walter as a starter. He has started to show the potential to do it though. JJ was 5th in the NFL among WRs catching 77.1% of all passes targeted at him. He's right behind Walter at 77.9%.

For reference David Anderson was 12th @ 73.1% and AJ was 28th at 66.4%(to be fair he also drew more double teams and had more bad passes forced to him).

eriadoc
08-06-2010, 11:34 AM
I think if Jacoby really puts it all together, the team will run three wideouts more often than not. KW's blocking is pretty invaluable.

DiehardChris
08-06-2010, 11:40 AM
You know, I do think it's a realistic possibility that JJ takes the next step sooner than many of us thought. He's looked really good in the practices I've seen.

beerlover
08-06-2010, 11:43 AM
during the actual season injurys seem to dictate starting reps more than anything, if Jacoby can stay healthy I would say he has an excellent chance to make the transition to becoming the #2.

JB
08-06-2010, 11:51 AM
I think if Jacoby really puts it all together, the team will run three wideouts more often than not. KW's blocking is pretty invaluable.

This! KW is asked to block down on DE's a lot. Don't know if JJ can handle that part of it nearly as well.

thunderkyss
08-06-2010, 11:54 AM
I think Jacoby is a play-maker, and KDub is not. I'd like to get as many play-makers on the field as possible at all times. But KDub is dependable, and clutch, so I don't know if I would want to take him off the field too often. I'm thinking JJ will be our new slot reciever, and like mentioned earlier it would be more of a 2a 2b thing.

Rey
08-06-2010, 11:57 AM
We use three wideouts a lot...

I'm not really worried about who the #2 receiver is. Both Jacoby and Walter will get a bunch of tick and will probably be played in differnt sets depending on the situations and match-ups.

The Pencil Neck
08-06-2010, 12:42 PM
One of the things I thought was interesting last year was when they showed the SF Niner's Defensive Coordinator's wrist band where he had notes written and different receiver numbers and packages and things. He had 12 written very large with a circle around it.

JJ is turning into a playmaker. If he can keep his head on straight, he's going to have a lot more balls thrown his way this season.

But I can't see him unseating KW as #2 until he gets down and dirty with the blocking like KW does. I think KW is just too reliable working underneath for him to lose his spot.

But.

I could be wrong.

Number19
08-06-2010, 12:45 PM
How well does JJ perform as a second level blocker? Walter has been described as almost being a second tight end in the running game.

Kubiak wants to run the ball 30 times a game; this year it looks like we will have the personnel to finally see the full scope of Kubiak's offense.

So, what is JJ's value in this scheme?

edit: I see that Pencil Neck made the same analysis at the same time I was writing my comments.

beerlover
08-06-2010, 12:48 PM
How well does JJ perform as a second level blocker? Walter has been described as almost being a second tight end in the running game.

Kubiak wants to run the ball 30 times a game; this year it looks like we will have the personnel to finally see the full scope of Kubiak's offense.

So, what is JJ's value in this scheme?

to get the dogs off Andre, Jacoby will be facing less than double or top cb

badboy
08-06-2010, 12:53 PM
I anticpate JJ having a probowl type season.

steelbtexan
08-06-2010, 01:13 PM
Depends on what Kubes wants. If he wants reliable KW is his man. If he wants explosive JJ is his man.

The run blocking thing is a little overrated. KW is a great run blocker. But JJ isn't a bad run blocker. Plus with JJ in the game defenses are more spread out because they have to account for the speed of both AJ and JJ. Thereby opening up more running lanes for the RB's. IMHO

disaacks3
08-06-2010, 01:20 PM
Jacoby reminds me of an '84 Alvin Harper with greater upside and better speed.
Compare Michael Irvin w/ Alvin Harper to Andre Johnson w/ Jacoby Jones.


In single coverage, the only question has been "is the play long enough" for him to get deep.

Section516
08-06-2010, 01:25 PM
Jacoby reminds me of an '84 Alvin Harper with greater upside and better speed.
Compare Michael Irvin w/ Alvin Harper to Andre Johnson w/ Jacoby Jones.


In single coverage, the only question has been "is the play long enough" for him to get deep.

Only problem with this is.. MS dosent have the cannon to bomb it super deep. Only knocks on him, durability and not a rocket. More than breaks even with the accuracy and decision making

m5kwatts
08-06-2010, 01:29 PM
The wide receiver position is more than just a hierarchy of 1-5, each wide out position has a specific role and specific duties to fulfill. Special skill-sets are required for each wide out spot.

Our receiving core has settled into its specific roles very well and I don't think they're going to mess up the good thing we have going here just to force feed Jacoby as a #2 receiver. Its fine the way it is now.

HOU-TEX
08-06-2010, 01:33 PM
One of the things I thought was interesting last year was when they showed the SF Niner's Defensive Coordinator's wrist band where he had notes written and different receiver numbers and packages and things. He had 12 written very large with a circle around it.

JJ is turning into a playmaker. If he can keep his head on straight, he's going to have a lot more balls thrown his way this season.

But I can't see him unseating KW as #2 until he gets down and dirty with the blocking like KW does. I think KW is just too reliable working underneath for him to lose his spot.

But.

I could be wrong.

Dadgum, PN, do you have bionics or something?

It's an interesting observation though. I went back and looked at previous games to that one and found he was only thrown 8 balls. But, what I did find is that 3 out of those 8 were TD's and 1 was a 44 yard reception. So yeah, I'd say he's a playmaker and we probably should find more ways to get him involved.

Dutchrudder
08-06-2010, 01:34 PM
Bump JJ up to #2, let him show his stuff and rack up 700-1000 yards opposite of AJ, then watch him leave in free agency next year for big money from a WR needy team. Seems like a great plan.

Number19
08-06-2010, 01:37 PM
... KW is a great run blocker. But JJ isn't a bad run blocker. Plus with JJ in the game defenses are more spread out because they have to account for the speed of both AJ and JJ. Thereby opening up more running lanes for the RB's. IMHOPrecisely; what's there not to like about our receivers; top to bottom we have some great talent.

I just haven't read any comments on JJ's blocking ( this is the first ). At about 214 lbs, I'd like to see a mental and physical toughness to go along with his receiving skills.

HOU-TEX
08-06-2010, 01:38 PM
Only problem with this is.. MS dosent have the cannon to bomb it super deep. Only knocks on him, durability and not a rocket. More than breaks even with the accuracy and decision making

IMO, that's bull-butter. He might not have an arm that dislocates fingers, but he's got plenty to get it down field. He had 15 passes that went for over 40, which is good for 4th best in the league.

A rifle for an arm is like the 40 yards dash at the Combine.....overrated

spurstexanstros
08-06-2010, 01:51 PM
I think if Jacoby really puts it all together, the team will run three wideouts more often than not. KW's blocking is pretty invaluable.
Except when it was called offensive PI in the Cards gams....that was a freaking bs call....

KW is by far the most underrated and underappreciated receiver in the league and its something I prefer. Teams spend a majority of the week preparing for AJ and OD and now preparing for the speed of JJ and that allows for Kevin and his back up DA to roam free

and last year they came up with some big catches....I agree they should run three wide and maybe 4 wide there is not a team that has enough defenders to cover them...pass first...ask questions later..imo.

Section516
08-06-2010, 01:54 PM
IMO, that's bull-butter. He might not have an arm that dislocates fingers, but he's got plenty to get it down field. He had 15 passes that went for over 40, which is good for 4th best in the league.

A rifle for an arm is like the 40 yards dash at the Combine.....overrated

Hey, I'm not knockin on him for it, Its just what it is. How many of those were middle range throws for long yardage? How many times does he have completely over-the-top throws..

I know Seattle game and Tennessee game off the top of my head, both blown coverages..

badboy
08-06-2010, 03:30 PM
Bump JJ up to #2, let him show his stuff and rack up 700-1000 yards opposite of AJ, then watch him leave in free agency next year for big money from a WR needy team. Seems like a great plan.So we discourage productivity? I think McNair has shown he will step up and pay good players. I think both AJ and Demeco found that out recently.

Dutchrudder
08-06-2010, 04:36 PM
So we discourage productivity? I think McNair has shown he will step up and pay good players. I think both AJ and Demeco found that out recently.

Nah, it's just a shame that it has taken them 4 years to figure out that Jacoby can be a good #2, even if he is mostly a one-trick-pony that stretches the field on deep routes. It worked for the Saints and Robert Meecham, so why not use JJ that way? Especially with AJ on the other side, JJ would be seeing one on one coverage most of the game.

Rey
08-06-2010, 04:43 PM
Hey, I'm not knockin on him for it, Its just what it is. How many of those were middle range throws for long yardage? How many times does he have completely over-the-top throws..

I know Seattle game and Tennessee game off the top of my head, both blown coverages..

I don't understand what blown covg has to do with the ability to throw the ball deep?

I think he has plenty arm strength to hit the home run though...

Sluggo
08-06-2010, 05:08 PM
The run blocking thing is a little overrated.

This is a ridiculous statement. Actually receivers as blockers is a very UNDERRATED aspect of the game. Any guesses on who Ronnie Lott, in his book Total Impact called the toughest receiver he ever had to face? Anthony Carter? Cris Carter? Michael Irvin? Henry Ellard? None of the above. A guy named Weegie Thompson. A receiver for the Steelers. The reason being is Lott said Thompson was so physical with his blocking that it had an impact on Lott's ability to cover because he said his head was constantly on a swievel looking for Thompson. For an offensive coordinator, a receiver who can really block is like gold. Yet casual fans could hardly give a damn because its not flashy and unless its Hines Ward laying out Ed Reed it wont be featured on Sports Center.
Absolutely Jacoby is more explosive than Kevin Walter - not that Kevin is exactly a plodder - and JJ is obviously the more talented of the two. However Kevin brings more of the intangibles and is one of the better blocking receivers in the league. If you think that is "overrated" you are simply showing your ignorance of the game. Also Kevin is less likely to put the ball on the ground. Thats not overrated either.

Sluggo
08-06-2010, 05:14 PM
Hey, I'm not knockin on him for it, Its just what it is. How many of those were middle range throws for long yardage? How many times does he have completely over-the-top throws..

I know Seattle game and Tennessee game off the top of my head, both blown coverages..

What difference does it make it they were blown coverages? The ball still has to get there. The deep ball to Andre to open the SeaHawk game was not a blown coverage. The corner was nearly step for step with AJ but Schaub threw a great ball and few DB have the ability to go up and get a ball over 80

disaacks3
08-06-2010, 05:17 PM
Nah, it's just a shame that it has taken them 4 years to figure out that Jacoby can be a good #2, even if he is mostly a one-trick-pony that stretches the field on deep routes. It worked for the Saints and Robert Meecham, so why not use JJ that way? Especially with AJ on the other side, JJ would be seeing one on one coverage most of the game.
I don't necessarily think that time was them "figuring out" that he coould be a decent #2/3, but rather it took JJ that long to mature enough to work in Kubiak's offense. The Kid's got talent, but he also needed to grow up some.

Rey
08-06-2010, 05:40 PM
Hey, I'm not knockin on him for it, Its just what it is. How many of those were middle range throws for long yardage? How many times does he have completely over-the-top throws..

I know Seattle game and Tennessee game off the top of my head, both blown coverages..

When people talk about arm strength normally they are really talking about how a QB makes those short and intermediate throws. How much Zip is on the ball and such...You know..Like the ability to jam the ball into tight spaces so when it hits the receivers hands it stings a little...

I will admit that Matt doesn't throw too many zingers, but what he lacks in that area he makes up for it with accuracy, touch and his reads..

Deep balls are more about touch and accuracy than it is about arm strength though

ObsiWan
08-06-2010, 06:18 PM
Hey, I'm not knockin on him for it, Its just what it is. How many of those were middle range throws for long yardage? How many times does he have completely over-the-top throws..

I know Seattle game and Tennessee game off the top of my head, both blown coverages..

And then there was the Cincy game where A.J. broke a screen for 59 yds.

(interestingly, we failed to score on that drive because we couldn't punch it in from the 11 and Cincy blocked the FG:headhurts: )

Number19
08-06-2010, 06:59 PM
This is a ridiculous statement. Actually receivers as blockers is a very UNDERRATED aspect of the game. Any guesses on who Ronnie Lott, in his book Total Impact called the toughest receiver he ever had to face? Anthony Carter? Cris Carter? Michael Irvin? Henry Ellard? None of the above. A guy named Weegie Thompson. A receiver for the Steelers. The reason being is Lott said Thompson was so physical with his blocking that it had an impact on Lott's ability to cover because he said his head was constantly on a swievel looking for Thompson. For an offensive coordinator, a receiver who can really block is like gold. Yet casual fans could hardly give a damn because its not flashy and unless its Hines Ward laying out Ed Reed it wont be featured on Sports Center.
Absolutely Jacoby is more explosive than Kevin Walter - not that Kevin is exactly a plodder - and JJ is obviously the more talented of the two. However Kevin brings more of the intangibles and is one of the better blocking receivers in the league. If you think that is "overrated" you are simply showing your ignorance of the game. Also Kevin is less likely to put the ball on the ground. Thats not overrated either.
Great follow-up response. Another under appreciated aspect of the position is the "possession" receiver - the go-to guy when a first down is needed - the one who runs a short precision route and never drops the ball. The Texans have one of these also.

CloakNNNdagger
08-06-2010, 07:22 PM
When people talk about arm strength normally they are really talking about how a QB makes those short and intermediate throws. How much Zip is on the ball and such...You know..Like the ability to jam the ball into tight spaces so when it hits the receivers hands it stings a little...

I will admit that Matt doesn't throw too many zingers, but what he lacks in that area he makes up for it with accuracy, touch and his reads..

Deep balls are more about touch and accuracy than it is about arm strength though

If you want an ultra cannon arm with laser guidance system, but without a brain attached, I hear Jeff George is still available.:spin:

alphajoker
08-06-2010, 07:23 PM
Whether or not he is the #2WR at the start of the season, at some point during the season, he will be the #2WR IMO.

HJam72
08-07-2010, 12:20 AM
JJ could still do it, I think, but he really needs to work on his hands. Just today I was rewatching that last game against the Pats. We had the ball in the red zone, Schaub makes a short, quick pass to JJ, whose hands its bounces up out of, and one of the DBs gets it and takes it to the house--probably a 14 point swing. You have to do a LOT of good to make up for things like that.

Based on everything up to this point, I'd have to say that KW is still the starter.

Malloy
08-07-2010, 09:26 AM
JJ could still do it, I think, but he really needs to work on his hands. Just today I was rewatching that last game against the Pats. We had the ball in the red zone, Schaub makes a short, quick pass to JJ, whose hands its bounces up out of, and one of the DBs gets it and takes it to the house--probably a 14 point swing. You have to do a LOT of good to make up for things like that.

Based on everything up to this point, I'd have to say that KW is still the starter.

Funny, I just watched that game yesterday. What a comeback.

JJ's making some doubious catches in that game, there's the one for the INT, but also at least one more that he actually catches and holds onto. It looks like he's catching the ball with his pads rather than with his hands. I hope he stops that, because it'll eventually end up in more INTs. I'll be looking for that in the pre-season games specifically, that is, if I have access to the games :)

TheRealJoker
08-07-2010, 10:47 AM
If he earns it, we'll know.

gary
08-07-2010, 12:24 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7141879.html

small nizzle
08-07-2010, 12:35 PM
well this whole argument is null.

they should be talking dez bryant instead of overpaid walter and terrible kareem.

just imagine when dez lights up molden in september, with kareem on the bench "learning"..

what a waste of a pick. #20 for a bench warming cb?

andre johnson/dez bryant/jacoby jones = scary

dez has the chance to be the best wr in the league,while kareems peak at best is an average cb....texans always go for "need" instead of best player.

im convinced if chris johnson was on the board,the texans would draft kareem jackson instead because we have foster. wait,that happened...they picked duane brown instead of chris johnson because of the "need" for a LT

Ryan
08-07-2010, 12:39 PM
well this whole argument is null.

they should be talking dez bryant instead of overpaid walter and terrible kareem.

just imagine when dez lights up molden in september, with kareem on the bench "learning"..

what a waste of a pick. #20 for a bench warming cb?

andre johnson/dez bryant/jacoby jones = scary

dez has the chance to be the best wr in the league,while kareems peak at best is an average cb....texans always go for "need" instead of best player.

im convinced if chris johnson was on the board,the texans would draft kareem jackson instead because we have foster. wait,that happened...they picked duane brown instead of chris johnson because of the "need" for a LT



Cool story bro.

MojoMan
08-07-2010, 12:41 PM
well this whole argument is null.

they should be talking dez bryant instead of overpaid walter and terrible kareem.

just imagine when dez lights up molden in september, with kareem on the bench "learning"..

what a waste of a pick. #20 for a bench warming cb?

andre johnson/dez bryant/jacoby jones = scary

dez has the chance to be the best wr in the league,while kareems peak at best is an average cb....texans always go for "need" instead of best player.

im convinced if chris johnson was on the board,the texans would draft kareem jackson instead because we have foster. wait,that happened...they picked duane brown instead of chris johnson because of the "need" for a LT

Big talk from someone who admittedly has such a small nizzle.

Just saying.

:)

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2010, 12:47 PM
well this whole argument is null.

they should be talking dez bryant instead of overpaid walter and terrible kareem.

just imagine when dez lights up molden in september, with kareem on the bench "learning"..

what a waste of a pick. #20 for a bench warming cb?

andre johnson/dez bryant/jacoby jones = scary

dez has the chance to be the best wr in the league,while kareems peak at best is an average cb....texans always go for "need" instead of best player.

im convinced if chris johnson was on the board,the texans would draft kareem jackson instead because we have foster. wait,that happened...they picked duane brown instead of chris johnson because of the "need" for a LT

What if... what if... what if... You're living in a fantasy where you're a supersmart FO executive. You aren't. Deal with it. You've got great hindsight but hindsight arguments are null.

Our FO has done a great job in the draft since Kubiak came here.

Chris Johnson wasn't very highly touted and a lot of people had him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. A bunch of teams passed on him and probably didn't even consider him for their first round pick. And no matter how you spin it, LT was a huge need for us and Duane Brown is growing into being a very good LT. That wasn't a bad pick.

gary
08-07-2010, 12:47 PM
well this whole argument is null.

they should be talking dez bryant instead of overpaid walter and terrible kareem.

just imagine when dez lights up molden in september, with kareem on the bench "learning"..

what a waste of a pick. #20 for a bench warming cb?

andre johnson/dez bryant/jacoby jones = scary

dez has the chance to be the best wr in the league,while kareems peak at best is an average cb....texans always go for "need" instead of best player.

im convinced if chris johnson was on the board,the texans would draft kareem jackson instead because we have foster. wait,that happened...they picked duane brown instead of chris johnson because of the "need" for a LTDude, just like in the training camp thread you have no idea what you're talking about you probably have not even been there like many of us have.

Dutchrudder
08-07-2010, 12:50 PM
well this whole argument is null.

they should be talking dez bryant instead of overpaid walter and terrible kareem.

just imagine when dez lights up molden in september, with kareem on the bench "learning"..

what a waste of a pick. #20 for a bench warming cb?

andre johnson/dez bryant/jacoby jones = scary

dez has the chance to be the best wr in the league,while kareems peak at best is an average cb....texans always go for "need" instead of best player.

im convinced if chris johnson was on the board,the texans would draft kareem jackson instead because we have foster. wait,that happened...they picked duane brown instead of chris johnson because of the "need" for a LT

http://img.imtwelve.com/gallery/obvious_trollp2e.jpg

Texas T
08-07-2010, 12:54 PM
http://img.imtwelve.com/gallery/obvious_trollp2e.jpg

:lol:

+Rep

small nizzle
08-07-2010, 01:00 PM
dez bryant + reeves/molden > walter + kareem

pbat488
08-07-2010, 01:00 PM
small nizzle has a small noggin.

TimeKiller
08-07-2010, 01:33 PM
To the thread-
I see JJ as a weapon, not a full time receiver. On 3rd and longs maybe you sub in JJ for KW. On reverses (for the love of reverses, please sub JJ in for KW). KW also doesn't ask for a lot of balls, JJ will. There are a lot of options already and there is no doubt that I would like to see them lean on JJ's ability a little more but not as the outright #2.

To the TROLL-Dez Bryant? Who is that? Oh yeah, the guy on the team with plenty of proven, legitimate passing options who hasn't played a single down of football in 2 years! HOFer!!!

thunderkyss
08-07-2010, 02:47 PM
Chris Johnson wasn't very highly touted and a lot of people had him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. A bunch of teams passed on him and probably didn't even consider him for their first round pick.

TPN, this is in no way directed towards you.

But when you look at what Chris Johnson did these last two years, I believe it is obvious, there were many people who were flat out wrong.

It is possible that he was graded poorly for reasons not related to talent.

However, someone in Tennessee at least, was able to see the talent.

Some people won't even look at a guy, if he didn't come from a big name school, and has accolades, and accolades heaped upon them. They let other people evaluate talent for them, and they end up with your Reggie Bushes, and Dez Bryants, and Marshawn Lynches.

TPN, rmartin, and several other of our draft watchers do a very good job of recognizing talent. It is their own opinion, because they study these guys, and don't just follow the hype.

I'm seeing the same correlation to people who watch our team. Some people won't believe the Texans have what it takes to win big in 2010.

Some people I can understand. They believe the Texans had what it took to win big in 2009, especially with the strength of schedule we faced. Completely understandable.

Others just have no clue. They look at 8-8, 8-8, 9-7 and say the team is mediocre. They completely ignore how the team is playing. There isn't a mediocre team in the league that can put up our stats, and send so many players to the pro-bowl (largely affirmation by their peers). I will agree that our results have been mediocre. But there is no way I can believe this team is mediocre.

Many identified tackling as a serious issue last preseason. It is a fundamental that a team has to excel at, if they expect to win any games. Those that identified the issue are the guys who are watching football, and not just crossing their fingers hoping we can win. Those are the guys with legitimate gripes about our team, and our coach. Defensively, we ended the season tackling much better than the way we started. Our offensive line was playing much better at the end of the season than they were at the beginning. Andre Johnson is not the same guy who led the league in 2008. & Matt Schaub is a much better QB, than he was in Sept 2009.

IMHO, I can't imagine a real football guy not liking the Texans' chances in 2010. Sure they have a lot of things to prove, but if you watch the team, you know it is not outside of their ability.

Yes it was possible in 2008, definitely in 2009. But in those years, a lot more things would have had to bounce our way. They didn't. Things still need to bounce our way in 2010, all teams need it (ask the Colts, or America's Team), but not nearly so much.

& yes, GK & RS have done a good job of finding diamonds in the rough so far; Owen Daniels, Eric Winston, Zac Diles, Glover Quinn, Jacoby Jones, even Steve Slaton. in 4 years.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2010, 03:00 PM
TPN, this is in no way directed towards you.

But when you look at what Chris Johnson did these last two years, I believe it is obvious, there were many people who were flat out wrong.

It is possible that he was graded poorly for reasons not related to talent.

Talent evaluation is a hard thing to do. Some guys have all the physical tools in the world but just don't pan out. Some guys have big red flags and turn out great.

Think about all the teams that passed (multiple times) on Jared Allen and Tom Brady, etc.,etc. Sometimes it's about the school, sometimes it's off the field issues.

But a lot of times it's pure luck that some of these guys are successful. If Tom Brady doesn't get lucky with the Tuck Rule, there's no telling if he would have still had the starting spot the next year. Sometimes the right guy gets into the right system and good things happen.

Like I said before, I don't have any issues with the way this team has drafted. We may have our issues getting the right free agents, but we've had a few stellar drafts. Let's hope that this last one proves to be even better.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2010, 03:02 PM
TPN, rmartin, and several other of our draft watchers do a very good job of recognizing talent. It is their own opinion, because they study these guys, and don't just follow the hype.

Oh, and to get this straight, I'm not one of the guys that breaks down a lot of tape. I do some research and try not to fall for the hype, but I'm not one of the talent evaluator gurus on this board and I don't claim to be.

rmartin65
08-07-2010, 03:57 PM
Oh, and to get this straight, I'm not one of the guys that breaks down a lot of tape. I do some research and try not to fall for the hype, but I'm not one of the talent evaluator gurus on this board and I don't claim to be.

You sure as hell calmed me down during the draft though, especially during the Dickerson pick when I thought they were taking him as a TE. As a WR, its a great pick, nice job pointing that out.

Hardcore Texan
08-07-2010, 04:08 PM
When I re-watched the Pats game on NFL replay I came away very impressed with JJ. He made some fantastic catches and really showed what he is capable of. After he coughed up the ball he responded very well and made up for it. That catch in the back of the endzone was a thing of beauty and Schaub threw the perfect pass and JJ made a terrific grab with great awareness of the boundary.

Sluggo
08-07-2010, 09:38 PM
well this whole argument is null.

they should be talking dez bryant instead of overpaid walter and terrible kareem.

just imagine when dez lights up molden in september, with kareem on the bench "learning"..

what a waste of a pick. #20 for a bench warming cb?

andre johnson/dez bryant/jacoby jones = scary

dez has the chance to be the best wr in the league,while kareems peak at best is an average cb....texans always go for "need" instead of best player.

im convinced if chris johnson was on the board,the texans would draft kareem jackson instead because we have foster. wait,that happened...they picked duane brown instead of chris johnson because of the "need" for a LT

Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this was not a serious post. I mean, no way you are this thick right?

Draft Dez Bryant? Really? Receiver is a position the Texans are loaded at. With Jacques Reeves being the only corner on the roster with more than one year of exp I think CB was an area of need. The 2010 Texans while much improved do not have the luxury of taking the "best player avalible". By the way there was no concensus Dez Bryant was that player. Michael Lombardi, a fairly respected football man, called Kareem Jackson "the most NFL ready defensive back in the draft." He went on to say that whoever drafts Jackson will be able to pencil him in at one cornerback spot and not worry about that position for the next ten years. No offense but I think I will go with his opinion over yours.
As for drafting Duane Brown, maybe you - assuming your a Texans fan and not just a troll on our board - were not tired of watching the Seth Wands and Ephriam Salaams of the world get turnstiled but I was. 76 and 73 make a nice set of bookends.

JB
08-07-2010, 09:52 PM
Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this was not a serious post. I mean, no way you are this thick right?

Draft Dez Bryant? Really? Receiver is a position the Texans are loaded at. With Jacques Reeves being the only corner on the roster with more than one year of exp I think CB was an area of need. The 2010 Texans while much improved do not have the luxury of taking the "best player avalible". By the way there was no concensus Dez Bryant was that player. Michael Lombardi, a fairly respected football man, called Kareem Jackson "the most NFL ready defensive back in the draft." He went on to say that whoever drafts Jackson will be able to pencil him in at one cornerback spot and not worry about that position for the next ten years. No offense but I think I will go with his opinion over yours.
As for drafting Duane Brown, maybe you - assuming your a Texans fan and not just a troll on our board - were not tired of watching the Seth Wands and Ephriam Salaams of the world get turnstiled but I was. 76 and 73 make a nice set of bookends.


1. Many draft pundits were saying the same thing.

2. Exactly! LT had been a need for this team since it's inception.

thunderkyss
08-08-2010, 08:33 AM
Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this was not a serious post. I mean, no way you are this thick right?

Draft Dez Bryant? Really? Receiver is a position the Texans are loaded at. With Jacques Reeves being the only corner on the roster with more than one year of exp I think CB was an area of need.

I think you just restated his argument.

We drafted need over BPA.

gary
08-08-2010, 10:44 AM
The Texans are just fine with who they have just win baby.

TheRealJoker
08-08-2010, 12:10 PM
It's certainly a nice luxury for us that we can argue over who would be BETTER as a # 2 WR... rather than the alternative of who can we FIND to play # 2 WR.

We have two guys in KW/JJ that we are confident can draw coverage away from AJ and be a good option for Schaub. They both bring different tools to the table, they'll both get their looks. Who starts the game as # 2 is not important. Who comes into the game based on the matchup/packages we are working with is of the utmost importance.

Sluggo
08-09-2010, 05:22 PM
We drafted need over BPA.

Well evidently my football IQ isnt quite as high as some others. Someone please explain to me why this is a bad thing.

Lets see, pass on Jackson and start the season with Reeves and Quin as the starters. Did Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne retire and I missed it?
The only place I have heard Bryant called the "best player avalible" when the Texans were on the clock was right here on this board. Just a thought, but their are more first round busts at wide receiver than any other position including quarterback.

The Pencil Neck
08-09-2010, 05:28 PM
Well evidently my football IQ isnt quite as high as some others. Someone please explain to me why this is a bad thing.

Lets see, pass on Jackson and start the season with Reeves and Quin as the starters. Did Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne retire and I missed it?
The only place I have heard Bryant called the "best player avalible" when the Texans were on the clock was right here on this board. Just a thought, but their are more first round busts at wide receiver than any other position including quarterback.

Most mocks had Dez Bryant going in the early teens to the Broncos. So he was one of the talented players that was dropping down the board. Dropping from the teens down into the mid-twenties isn't really that much of a drop.

OTOH, most mocks had Kyle Wilson ahead of Kareem Jackson. BUT... the fact that both Kareem Jackson and Devin McCourty were drafted before Kyle Wilson was makes it look like the Pro Scouts had a different board than the amateurs.

infantrycak
08-09-2010, 05:37 PM
BUT... the fact that both Kareem Jackson and Devin McCourty were drafted before Kyle Wilson was makes it look like the Pro Scouts had a different board than the amateurs.

Exactly. People treat web sites like gold nowadays. It is (a) just someone's opinion and (b) often a response to looking at other web sites rather than game tape. They're a reference not a gospel.

drs23
08-09-2010, 05:40 PM
Most mocks had Dez Bryant going in the early teens to the Broncos. So he was one of the talented players that was dropping down the board. Dropping from the teens down into the mid-twenties isn't really that much of a drop.

OTOH, most mocks had Kyle Wilson ahead of Kareem Jackson. BUT... the fact that both Kareem Jackson and Devin McCourty were drafted before Kyle Wilson was makes it look like the Pro Scouts had a different board than the amateurs.

This is one fella I'm going to watch intently. He was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF? Don't these PROFESSIONAL scouts even have the decency to keep up with these boards? They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here. I don't even remember Kareem's name being mentioned. Upside is the term I kept hearing. Will sure be interesting to see how this pans out.

P.S. - No rocks being thrown here at any of the mock drafters. All that sure kept me going here during the long, cold, wet winter. Thanks.

thunderkyss
08-09-2010, 08:28 PM
Well evidently my football IQ isnt quite as high as some others. Someone please explain to me why this is a bad thing.

Pull up, homie... pull up.

I'm just saying that your argument was simply affirmation of what the previous poster had just said. I don't have a dog in the race, I let the pros do what they do, and watch people argue for months, then see how it all unfolds during the season.

Lets see, pass on Jackson and start the season with Reeves and Quin as the starters. Did Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne retire and I missed it?

This would have been a good argument to that post above. It addresses the issue, and points to the fact that sometimes needs/BPA go hand in hand.

The only place I have heard Bryant called the "best player avalible" when the Texans were on the clock was right here on this board. Just a thought, but their are more first round busts at wide receiver than any other position including quarterback.

Another good argument, you're doing well young pada-wan. Now go get the guy who said all that crazy ****.

Sluggo
08-09-2010, 09:55 PM
My apologies if I came across too strong Thunderkyss. Its rather easy to get carried away here ;)

The Pencil Neck
08-09-2010, 11:01 PM
My apologies if I came across too strong Thunderkyss. Its rather easy to get carried away here ;)

DON'T let it happen again or we'll have to knock the piss outta you.


:whip:

76Texan
08-10-2010, 11:07 AM
I think you just restated his argument.

We drafted need over BPA.

I believe I was the only one who talked about Chris Johnson on this board.
I though he has outstanding speed, and can also run between tackles.

But I wasn' mad when they drafted D. Brown.
In fact, D. Brown was also on the list of the players I thought would fit the Texans.
And as I've said many times, when there's need, it's not a reach.
I rated him a little lower, but we can see from this example, it was "draft for need over BPA".

I think the Texans normally switch to BPA in the later rounds.

76Texan
08-10-2010, 11:13 AM
It's certainly a nice luxury for us that we can argue over who would be BETTER as a # 2 WR... rather than the alternative of who can we FIND to play # 2 WR.

We have two guys in KW/JJ that we are confident can draw coverage away from AJ and be a good option for Schaub. They both bring different tools to the table, they'll both get their looks. Who starts the game as # 2 is not important. Who comes into the game based on the matchup/packages we are working with is of the utmost importance.

This! :fans:

And the Texans receivers had improved their blocking skills over previous years.
(Yeah, that call on KW was highly questionable. In another game - I can't remember which, but I did mention it before -our opponent's receiver put up a terrible moving screen and wasn't called for it.)

But I think they still have room for improvement.

badboy
08-10-2010, 12:14 PM
This is one fella I'm going to watch intently. He was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF? Don't these PROFESSIONAL scouts even have the decency to keep up with these boards? They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here. I don't even remember Kareem's name being mentioned. Upside is the term I kept hearing. Will sure be interesting to see how this pans out.

P.S. - No rocks being thrown here at any of the mock drafters. All that sure kept me going here during the long, cold, wet winter. Thanks.Wow, slap my face, call me dirty names and put a boot to my butt then PS no rocks. You are pretty funny. If you are a frequent reader of most of the posts about NFL draft, you would know that BeerLover has mentioned at least twice that Kareem Jackson announced his intention on being available shortly before the draft. That did not leave much time to consider him. I was one of the most vociferous in wanting Wilson and still feel same way. Wilson is a cover CB and Jackson is not but may be able to develop into enough of one to succeed. You appear sir to be the type of guy who is too afraid to ask a pretty girl for a date, but then slams the guy who does ask but gets turned down.

spurstexanstros
08-10-2010, 12:19 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but I am under the opinion the draft is a crapshoot and most teams hire the best and brightest not to get hit by the biggest pile of .....well useless players. Imo the Texans front office has established a decent enough pattern of drafing solid players they do miss amobi and barwin come to mind. However, players like JJ Slaton and Cushing give us Texans fans hope when they draft a "NFL Ready" player like KJ.

I am fine with the 5 receivers we have and when you add them to the 11 TE's we have plaenty of people to catch the ball and not too many guys to stop the ball.

Rey
08-10-2010, 12:24 PM
How did they miss on Barwin?

Dutchrudder
08-10-2010, 12:51 PM
I believe I was the only one who talked about Chris Johnson on this board.
I though he has outstanding speed, and can also run between tackles.

But I wasn' mad when they drafted D. Brown.
In fact, D. Brown was also on the list of the players I thought would fit the Texans.
And as I've said many times, when there's need, it's not a reach.
I rated him a little lower, but we can see from this example, it was "draft for need over BPA".

I think the Texans normally switch to BPA in the later rounds.

I have heard several times that San Diego would have drafted Duane Brown right after the Texans, had the Texans picked someone else, so I don't think it was much of a reach if at all.

The Chris Johnson issue that gets brought up from time to time fails to address the fact that there were quite a few good running backs in that draft. Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Ray Rice and Matt Forte were all 1-2 round picks that year. The Texans didn't just pass on CJ, they passed on a lot of promising young RBs, but in the process of the trade back they picked up a late 3rd which was used to get Steve Slaton.
So the real question is, would you rather have Duane Brown and Steve Slaton, or one of the aforementioned RBs?

Given the needs of the team and no future knowledge at the time, I like the Brown and Slaton (injury aside) combo. Given what I know now, Ray Rice and CJ would be the only two RBs that make more sense. I would trade all of our current RBs for just one Ray Rice :D

The Pencil Neck
08-10-2010, 12:51 PM
Barwin was not a miss.

Texas T
08-10-2010, 02:18 PM
How did they miss on Barwin?

That was my first question too...I seem to recall him being pretty darn good.

drs23
08-10-2010, 03:17 PM
Wow, slap my face, call me dirty names and put a boot to my butt then PS no rocks. You are pretty funny. If you are a frequent reader of most of the posts about NFL draft, you would know that BeerLover has mentioned at least twice that Kareem Jackson announced his intention on being available shortly before the draft. That did not leave much time to consider him. I was one of the most vociferous in wanting Wilson and still feel same way. Wilson is a cover CB and Jackson is not but may be able to develop into enough of one to succeed. You appear sir to be the type of guy who is too afraid to ask a pretty girl for a date, but then slams the guy who does ask but gets turned down.

Whoa! badboy. Is that funny HaHa? I did follow the draft post as much as time afforded and did miss BL's posts regarding KJ late(?) announcement for the draft. I did/do appreciate the time rmartin65, BeerLover and yourself spent putting your drafts together but I missed the part about Kareem. I recall hearing mainly about Wilson & McCorty. That is what I was referencing in my statement and I will follow their careers with interest as I will watch how Kareem comes along. As far as asking out the pretty girl, ya missed on that one, she's now my wife. I ain't scaird, now or then. :heart:

spurstexanstros
08-10-2010, 03:24 PM
Barwin was not a miss.

4.5 sacks and 18 total tackles....not exactly hitting it out of the park there.

rmartin65
08-10-2010, 03:34 PM
4.5 sacks and 18 total tackles....not exactly hitting it out of the park there.

True, but you cant judge after 1 year. Also, werent those 4.5 sacks tops among rookie lineman?

Texan_Bill
08-10-2010, 03:45 PM
4.5 sacks and 18 total tackles....not exactly hitting it out of the park there.

This is a guy that didn't start playing the DL his until his junior year in college and only had 14 starts as DE. Also, he was used situationally (or rotated) last season, not every down.

spurstexanstros
08-10-2010, 03:49 PM
I see your point TB, but with a high value pick you need mor ebang for your buck. If he inproves this year I will stand corrected

HouSportsWriter
08-10-2010, 03:53 PM
I asked if Jacoby wanted to be our #2 or #3 wide reciver!


Jacoby told me and my freind on saturday at training camp while he was streatching.



"i just want to win games thats all i care about right now"



now thats what i want to hear from the pro's

The Pencil Neck
08-10-2010, 04:08 PM
4.5 sacks and 18 total tackles....not exactly hitting it out of the park there.

Not a miss by any stretch of the imagination, either.

IBleedTexans
08-10-2010, 06:14 PM
I asked if Jacoby wanted to be our #2 or #3 wide reciver!


Jacoby told me and my freind on saturday at training camp while he was streatching.



"i just want to win games thats all i care about right now"



now thats what i want to hear from the pro's

Dude your post are much improved. Congrats! I'll Rep you when I'm near a computer.

P.s. sorry for giving you a hard time.

HouSportsWriter
08-10-2010, 09:08 PM
Dude your post are much improved. Congrats! I'll Rep you when I'm near a computer.

P.s. sorry for giving you a hard time.


It is fine. Thank you for the support :)

badboy
08-11-2010, 11:13 AM
Whoa! badboy. Is that funny HaHa? I did follow the draft post as much as time afforded and did miss BL's posts regarding KJ late(?) announcement for the draft. I did/do appreciate the time rmartin65, BeerLover and yourself spent putting your drafts together but I missed the part about Kareem. I recall hearing mainly about Wilson & McCorty. That is what I was referencing in my statement and I will follow their careers with interest as I will watch how Kareem comes along. As far as asking out the pretty girl, ya missed on that one, she's now my wife. I ain't scaird, now or then. :heart:23, I went back and read your post again after reading it 3 times yesterday. I think I have a thick skin but your post seemed directed at the mocks Beerlover,Rmartin65 and I put together and in particular at me. Emails I received after my reply to your post indicate others thought so too.


"He was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF? Don't these PROFESSIONAL scouts even have the decency to keep up with these boards? They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here. I don't even remember Kareem's name being mentioned."

I am open to criticism but your comments seemed over the line. Anyway,
back to the thread.

badboy
08-11-2010, 11:21 AM
This is a guy that didn't start playing the DL his until his junior year in college and only had 14 starts as DE. Also, he was used situationally (or rotated) last season, not every down.Still, he was the 14th pick in second round. WHen you have a large number of players at any position and then draft that same position so high I think it is fair to judge his play. Not saying he should be compared to Okoye but the standards should be similar all things considered. I do expect a lot more from Barwin this season & think I'll get it.

badboy
08-11-2010, 11:24 AM
I asked if Jacoby wanted to be our #2 or #3 wide reciver!


Jacoby told me and my freind on saturday at training camp while he was streatching.



"i just want to win games thats all i care about right now"



now thats what i want to hear from the pro'sSIAB! way to go directly to the player !

HouSportsWriter
08-11-2010, 12:18 PM
SIAB! way to go directly to the player !

thanks! =]

Oh yah! Allmost forgot!

I said to Jacoby your going to have to give me a autograph.

He said man i guess i will have to hurry and sign it. he laughed He said he would give me

and my freind one after it was over.

and he did his autograph is the one on bottom. the scribbles!


jacoby is a man of his word =]

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/irockthesoxs/023.jpg

drs23
08-11-2010, 12:22 PM
23, I went back and read your post again after reading it 3 times yesterday. I think I have a thick skin but your post seemed directed at the mocks Beerlover,Rmartin65 and I put together and in particular at me. Emails I received after my reply to your post indicate others thought so too.


"He was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF? Don't these PROFESSIONAL scouts even have the decency to keep up with these boards? ". I don't even remember Kareem's name being mentioned."

I am open to criticism but your comments seemed over the line. Anyway,
back to the thread.

badboy,

I was going to respond privately but since it seems to you and others that I was over the top I'll respond publicly. In this case it's very obvious that my sense of humor did not come across in the least. My statement:"He (Wilson)was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF?" is the only reference made to the mock drafts here and it was in no way meant to be derogitory. I capitalized proffesional. This was directed at the various professional scouts, teams, GM and those who make the decisions about who/who not to draft. My statement :"They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here"(Wilson & McCorty) was a failed attempt with my dry humor. You pointed out Beerlover's pointing out Kareem coming out early. I missed it and admitted same. I went as far to say nothing was pointed at anyone here. I was by no means in any manner singling you or any other member out.

I see I offended you and perhaps others. For that I apologize, sincerely. That was never my intent. In the future I'll do everything in my means to make sure I come across as intended.

badboy
08-11-2010, 12:31 PM
badboy,

I was going to respond privately but since it seems to you and others that I was over the top I'll respond publicly. In this case it's very obvious that my sense of humor did not come across in the least. My statement:"He (Wilson)was on such a pedestal on so many mock drafts here that I was thinking WTF?" is the only reference made to the mock drafts here and it was in no way meant to be derogitory. I capitalized proffesional. This was directed at the various professional scouts, teams, GM and those who make the decisions about who/who not to draft. My statement :"They go out and take some guy who wasn't ranted about here"(Wilson & McCorty) was a failed attempt with my dry humor. You pointed out Beerlover's pointing out Kareem coming out early. I missed it and admitted same. I went as far to say nothing was pointed at anyone here. I was by no means in any manner singling you or any other member out.

I see I offended you and perhaps others. For that I apologize, sincerely. That was never my intent. In the future I'll do everything in my means to make sure I come across as intended.23, you impress the heck out of me! Many thanks for correcting my impression especially publically. That took courage and my hat is off to you. BL, 65 and I get blasted quite frequently about our mocks and just recently slammed on another thread for even talking about 2011 now. We are ok with such jabs as long as they don't come across as a ***** slap when we are already knocked down. You & I are good and I am glad I responded to your first post as it led to a clearer understanding of what you were saying. Please understand that I (and I speak for BL & 65) are open to criticism & hope you participate in our coming efforts. The three of us are already in discussions over players to watch in the soon to begin college season. Steve

HouSportsWriter
08-11-2010, 12:35 PM
23, you impress the heck out of me! Many thanks for correcting my impression especially publically. That took courage and my hat is off to you. BL, 65 and I get blasted quite frequently about our mocks and just recently slammed on another thread for even talking about 2011 now. We are ok with such jabs as long as they don't come across as a ***** slap when we are already knocked down. You & I are good and I am glad I responded to your first post as it led to a clearer understanding of what you were saying. Please understand that I (and I speak for BL & 65) are open to criticism & hope you participate in our coming efforts. The three of us are already in discussions over players to watch in the soon to begin college season. Steve

:offtopic:includeme:

drs23
08-11-2010, 01:13 PM
... You & I are good...

Good deal.:)

spurstexanstros
08-11-2010, 01:29 PM
<--------------On a lighter note Jacoby tries to convince the Texans' # 1 Wide receiver that he is the right man for the job.
( I still cant figure out how to post pics in the thread)

HouSportsWriter
08-11-2010, 02:04 PM
nice! where was that taken

p.s. you gota upload your pictures to photobucket then use the img code
yourpicturesurlhere

spurstexanstros
08-11-2010, 02:08 PM
At the BWW when the Texans came to visit SA


(Ahhh no wonder it didnt work-Thanks I am not too tech savvy)

HouSportsWriter
08-11-2010, 02:10 PM
nice jacoby is a nice guy your lucky you got a picture =]

did your son get a autograph and did you

badboy
08-11-2010, 02:10 PM
<--------------On a lighter note Jacoby tries to convince the Texans' # 1 Wide receiver that he is the right man for the job.
( I still cant figure out how to post pics in the thread)
Johnson, who often mentors the other receivers and has become close with Jones, reminds him to think about each step as it happens and not to envision the touchdown after the catch and run before hes even stepped on the field.

Link>http://www.foxsportshouston.com/08/06/10/One-on-One-with-Jacoby-Jones/landing_texans.html?blockID=285156&feedID=3551

spurstexanstros
08-11-2010, 02:58 PM
nice jacoby is a nice guy your lucky you got a picture =]

did your son get a autograph and did you

Yes we did and DA's as well and so did 250+ Texans fans at the event.

I asked him about the Titans fight and I asked him what set it off and he said he wasnt sure. I told him that i thought it showed heart that the team stood up to them. He said that they were tired of theeir secondary running smack and they had to show the Titans they they were not going be pushed around.

JJ and DA were awesome...as for this #2 wr debate who caress we have alot of good weapons. I say we go 5 wide and dare them to stop us.

HouSportsWriter
08-11-2010, 03:08 PM
Yes we did and DA's as well and so did 250+ Texans fans at the event.

I asked him about the Titans fight and I asked him what set it off and he said he wasnt sure. I told him that i thought it showed heart that the team stood up to them. He said that they were tired of theeir secondary running smack and they had to show the Titans they they were not going be pushed around.

JJ and DA were awesome...as for this #2 wr debate who caress we have alot of good weapons. I say we go 5 wide and dare them to stop us.

i got andersons at trainingcamp he did not talk just signed then left

HouSportsWriter
08-11-2010, 03:10 PM
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u320/irockthesoxs/021.jpg

here it is =]