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View Full Version : Kubiak: Owen Daniels has had a setback recovering from ACL surgery


DiehardChris
08-01-2010, 02:38 PM
Damn.

Link (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38509619/sports/player_news)

I'm sure there will be a more detailed link soon, with further explanation.

El Tejano
08-01-2010, 02:40 PM
But...but....we shouldn't have drafted so many TEs.

jaayteetx
08-01-2010, 02:46 PM
Looking like he could start the year on the PUP list, damn, that sucks.

El Tejano
08-01-2010, 02:49 PM
Why can't this ever happen to The Colts?

Brisco_County
08-01-2010, 02:51 PM
Who starts? Dreeson? Graham?

GuerillaBlack
08-01-2010, 02:52 PM
What the link said is so true. Wes Welker tore his ACL in the last week of the season, and his practicing. Owen tore his halfway through the season, and still isn't practicing. Sucks.

JB
08-01-2010, 02:54 PM
This is what Kubiak said Sautrday...

(on TE Owen Daniels' status for the opening game of the regular season) "I haven't changed my mindset at all. That decision will be made down the road. All of our focus is for him to get ready for the Colts. As I said yesterday, we are going to know a lot more about Owen in the next two weeks. His rehab looks good. He's picked it up and I've been watching him every morning. I think Owen is a warrior as long as I've been around. So if anyone is going to make it to that spot, then he has an excellent chance. So we'll be smart with him."

(on TE Owen Daniels' progress in rehab) "I think what we are trying to find out right now is how he will respond to the increased level of rehab. He's doing more football stuff. We'll have a new response in the next few weeks."

And Schaub's thoughts...

(on feeling like TE Owen Daniels will be ready to go for opening day) "Yeah, no question. No question. I feel like he can be ready. That's between him and the trainers and medical staff, but from what he says, he says he's feeling good and he's just progressing in his rehab."


Link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6237)

DiehardChris
08-01-2010, 03:04 PM
Worth noting - I have yet to see the ACTUAL QUOTE that Kubiak gave, so I hope the above link isn't mischaracterizing what he said as a "setback."

ChampionTexan
08-01-2010, 03:04 PM
This is what Kubiak said Sautrday...





And Schaub's thoughts...




Link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6237)

It's kind of strange that for something as major (even if it's not major) as this, there's no mention of it on HT.com, on Chron.com, or any local media outlet.

Also, all stories I've found ultimately credit it to ESPN.com, and if you search Kubiak, and Owen Daniels on their site, there's nothing to be found (at least relating to a setback).

Honoring Earl 34
08-01-2010, 03:06 PM
I like Daniels but think he may become Wally Pip .

DiehardChris
08-01-2010, 03:07 PM
It's kind of strange that for something as major (even if it's not major) as this, there's no mention of it on HT.com, on Chron.com, or any local media outlet.

Also, all stories I've found ultimately credit it to ESPN.com, and if you search Kubiak, and Owen Daniels on their site, there's nothing to be found (at least relating to a setback).

Yep, exactly. I'm kind of wishing I would have found the ACTUAL quote before I linked to the story here... but still newsworthy I guess.

Journalistic Integrity FAIL.

JB
08-01-2010, 03:12 PM
Yep, exactly. I'm kind of wishing I would have found the ACTUAL quote before I linked to the story here... but still newsworthy I guess.

Journalistic Integrity FAIL.

I do seem to recall reading something yesterday about a minor setback, but I'm thinking it came from Dainels. And the setback was a couple of weeks ago.

But then again, I'm drunk most of the time.

GuerillaBlack
08-01-2010, 03:15 PM
I do seem to recall reading something yesterday about a minor setback, but I'm thinking it came from Dainels. And the setback was a couple of weeks ago.

But then again, I'm drunk most of the time.

The only person I remember hearing a setback from was Chris Mortenson yesterday, when he was at training camp.

DiehardChris
08-01-2010, 03:16 PM
Here's a better link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp10/columns/story?columnist=mortensen_chris&id=5426519) (provided by my man BigRon (http://twitter.com/bigron281))

So far, it seems as though the word "setback" is Mort's word. Oy vey.

GP
08-01-2010, 03:18 PM
Why can't this ever happen to The Colts?

Didnt they lose Gonzalez last season? It happens.

Every fan thinks its worse on his particular team.

ChampionTexan
08-01-2010, 03:18 PM
Journalistic Integrity FAIL.

Let's hope Journalistic accuracy and/or contextual fail also.

drs23
08-01-2010, 03:20 PM
I do seem to recall reading something yesterday about a minor setback, but I'm thinking it came from Dainels. And the setback was a couple of weeks ago.

But then again, I'm drunk most of the time.

Cheers. <clink>

Just brought in a fine lookin' dancin' chicken and am catching up on shoulder pad day. Can't wait till they go full speed.

This is the first I've read about a setback and I *thought* I'd read *everything*.
Who's taking pictures???:fans:

JB
08-01-2010, 03:20 PM
The only person I remember hearing a setback from was Chris Mortenson yesterday, when he was at training camp.

You are correct!


And I was drunk....

bckey
08-01-2010, 03:26 PM
Didnt they lose Gonzalez last season? It happens.

Every fan thinks its worse on his particular team.


I don't think Gonzalez is even close to the same as losing Daniels. Maybe Dallas Clark or Reggie Wayne.

Brisco_County
08-01-2010, 03:41 PM
This is indeed a concern. A player of viable health should not be suffering a setback this far into recovery. Considering this and the fact that it's his third ACL tear by age 27, there's only one real conclusion I'm starting to accept: Owen Daniels has bad knees, and his best days are behind him. Graham is the TE of the Texans' future.

JB
08-01-2010, 03:48 PM
Daniels: "I'll be ready to go for September" http://bit.ly/aUnV99

http://twitter.com/NickScurfield

pbat488
08-01-2010, 03:51 PM
Why can't this ever happen to The Colts?

Didnt they lose Gonzalez last season? It happens.

Every fan thinks its worse on his particular team.

I don't think Gonzalez is even close to the same as losing Daniels. Maybe Dallas Clark or Reggie Wayne.

Former DPOY Bob Sanders..

Norg
08-01-2010, 03:56 PM
its ok dont we have like 5 Tight ends

what really need 2 do is unleash our 3 headed Demons of runing backs on the colts and run the ball down there throat thats how we beat them last time on the legs of ron dayne

ChampionTexan
08-01-2010, 03:57 PM
Every fan thinks its worse on his particular team.

Yup. Works the same way with refereeing.

I think we've gone the last two years with "fewer than average" injuries.

In fact wasn't one of the reasons football outsiders had us going 5.6-10.4 this year (or something close to that) due to them factoring in a higher injury impact than last year? Not defending their methodology (in fact, it's kind of ridiculous), just pointing out injuries haven't been a problem for the Texans the last couple of years (relative to the league as a whole anyway).

DiehardChris
08-01-2010, 04:02 PM
Guys - I think I blew it on this one.

The title of the thread should read MORTENSEN, not Kubiak. I think I just overreacted to a headline I read on Rotoworld. Mortensen said "Daniels had a setback a couple of weeks ago" on his report from Texans camp.

Apologies. I should have sat on this instead of just running out and posting it. Lesson learned.

BSofA04
08-01-2010, 04:08 PM
Brisco, what about James Casey? Kubiak had some high praise for him such as the most improved player during OTA's. I remember reading how his blocking has improved as well as is route running.

I'm very interested to see if he'll step up to the plate and become a monster threat in the receiving game like he was at Rice.

JB
08-01-2010, 04:08 PM
Guys - I think I blew it on this one.

The title of the thread should read MORTENSEN, not Kubiak. I think I just overreacted to a headline I read on Rotoworld. Mortensen said "Daniels had a setback a couple of weeks ago" on his report from Texans camp.

Apologies. I should have sat on this instead of just running out and posting it. Lesson learned.

Dude, it's all good. Reading anything about the Texans is good to me.

BSofA04
08-01-2010, 04:13 PM
Guys - I think I blew it on this one.

The title of the thread should read MORTENSEN, not Kubiak. I think I just overreacted to a headline I read on Rotoworld. Mortensen said "Daniels had a setback a couple of weeks ago" on his report from Texans camp.

Apologies. I should have sat on this instead of just running out and posting it. Lesson learned.
Whatever, you just pulled a John McClain. :laughjump: :jk:

drs23
08-01-2010, 04:15 PM
Guys - I think I blew it on this one.

The title of the thread should read MORTENSEN, not Kubiak. I think I just overreacted to a headline I read on Rotoworld. Mortensen said "Daniels had a setback a couple of weeks ago" on his report from Texans camp.

Apologies. I should have sat on this instead of just running out and posting it. Lesson learned.

Point taken. Carry on.

Chris, great job keeping us (me) informed since we can't all be there.

Thanks again.

H.C.4100-Bloc
08-01-2010, 04:26 PM
Damn O.D. we need you healthy

ChampionTexan
08-01-2010, 04:55 PM
Whatever, you just pulled a John McClain. :laughjump: :jk:

Actually he pulled the opposite of a McClain:

McClain = not telling us about something that happened
This = telling us about something that didn't happen (well, kind of sort of didn't happen)

But no sweat on this on from my perspective. Am very happy it turned out to be what it was as opposed to what it originally looked like.

DH Chris - I'd rep ya again if I could.

CloakNNNdagger
08-01-2010, 05:27 PM
Here's a better link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp10/columns/story?columnist=mortensen_chris&id=5426519) (provided by my man BigRon (http://twitter.com/bigron281))

So far, it seems as though the word "setback" is Mort's word. Oy vey.

The way I interpret this statement is that it is gramatically ambiguous. He may very well be reporting a setback that was known of PRIOR to stating that Kubiak is shooting for the Colts game instead of TC (which is when Kubiak early on had stated he expected Owens to be back).

Tonaaayyyy
08-01-2010, 05:32 PM
Question..... I've always thought tearing an ACL was career ending injury?

The Pencil Neck
08-01-2010, 05:50 PM
Question..... I've always thought tearing an ACL was career ending injury?

Years ago, it was but not any more. Guys get ACL injuries all the time and are able to come back from them. It's not easy to do it. The players got to work hard. But lots of guys have done it now.

Tonaaayyyy
08-01-2010, 07:56 PM
Years ago, it was but not any more. Guys get ACL injuries all the time and are able to come back from them. It's not easy to do it. The players got to work hard. But lots of guys have done it now.


Interesting.. I guess it worked for McGahee if i'm not mistaken?

The Pencil Neck
08-01-2010, 08:01 PM
Interesting.. I guess it worked for McGahee if i'm not mistaken?

McGahee tore his ACL, MCL, and PCL. Carson Palmer tore the ACL and MCL. I think Dunta's injury involved the ACL. I mean, there've been lots and lots of guys who've come back from ACL injuries over the past decade.

JB
08-01-2010, 08:09 PM
McGahee tore his ACL, MCL, and PCL. Carson Palmer tore the ACL and MCL. I think Dunta's injury involved the ACL. I mean, there've been lots and lots of guys who've come back from ACL injuries over the past decade.

Dunta's was the ACL and the hamstring completely detached iirc.

PockyAF
08-01-2010, 08:26 PM
So, who was that one poster that was complaining about drafting two TE's in back-to-back drafts?

rmartin65
08-01-2010, 08:29 PM
So, who was that one poster that was complaining about drafting two TE's in back-to-back drafts?

I complained. Still am a bit. It is a waste of a pick if one player drafted in the last two years (barring 6th/7th rounders) gets cut. Just a waste.

We dont know if OD has had a setback. Maybe, maybe not. But the team has 6 or so TEs on the roster. That is an obscene amount. Now, Casey can play some FB and LS, but that still leaves Dreeson, OD and Graham as virtually identical players. Hill is the blocking TE, but it looks like people want him cut.

I am not as angry as I was during the draft, but I still feel like th Graham pick could have been better spent. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

beerlover
08-01-2010, 08:39 PM
I complained. Still am a bit. It is a waste of a pick if one player drafted in the last two years (barring 6th/7th rounders) gets cut. Just a waste.

We dont know if OD has had a setback. Maybe, maybe not. But the team has 6 or so TEs on the roster. That is an obscene amount. Now, Casey can play some FB and LS, but that still leaves Dreeson, OD and Graham as virtually identical players. Hill is the blocking TE, but it looks like people want him cut.

I am not as angry as I was during the draft, but I still feel like th Graham pick could have been better spent. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

know what you mean but Graham may actually be the air-apparent, that still makes Casey & Hill as wasted picks. This was their error not drafting Graham who is as complete if not more so than former Wisconsin alum Daniels.

Rey
08-01-2010, 08:40 PM
I'm surprised no one picked up on this in the Chris Mortensen review of (I think) Friday's practice...

rmartin65
08-01-2010, 08:41 PM
know what you mean but Graham may actually be the air-apparent, that still makes Casey & Hill as wasted picks. This was their error not drafting Graham who is as complete if not more so than former Wisconsin alum Daniels.

Oh, I am not saying Graham was a bad pick, you are right, he has potential. My issue is that they have just drafted too many TEs. And yes, that was their mistake. But it was still a mistake.

JB
08-01-2010, 08:45 PM
I complained. Still am a bit. It is a waste of a pick if one player drafted in the last two years (barring 6th/7th rounders) gets cut. Just a waste.

We dont know if OD has had a setback. Maybe, maybe not. But the team has 6 or so TEs on the roster. That is an obscene amount. Now, Casey can play some FB and LS, but that still leaves Dreeson, OD and Graham as virtually identical players. Hill is the blocking TE, but it looks like people want him cut.

I am not as angry as I was during the draft, but I still feel like th Graham pick could have been better spent. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

I really think the Graham pick was a little bit of insurance for this year with both OD and Dreesen coming off surgery. As well as Hill. But mostly for next year with the uncertainty about OD. He was not receptive to a top 5 contract last year. If he is healthy and has another stellar year next year, will they be able to re-sign him?

Also, it took
Daniels until his second year to be really effective, iirc., so Graham should be ready to blossom if Daniels is not available next year. Or they have solid trade bait.

That said, I was not very pleased at the pick either.

beerlover
08-01-2010, 09:00 PM
Oh, I am not saying Graham was a bad pick, you are right, he has potential. My issue is that they have just drafted too many TEs. And yes, that was their mistake. But it was still a mistake.

yes, not Graham but Hill & Casey.

gary
08-01-2010, 09:07 PM
Here is some great info on all this stuff per web MD.
http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/knee-ligament-injuries

Rey
08-01-2010, 09:23 PM
I don't think we have too many TE's with all things considered...

Casey plays a dual role on offense and is a good special teamer...I really do not think Owen is in the Texans long term plans...JMO

I think they like Dreesen, but I think they'd like a little more talent at that position than what he brings...

All that being said, the offense that they play flows a lot better with a good TE...It opens things up for everyone...I am not upset with the way they have drafted TE's at all..

ChampionTexan
08-01-2010, 10:10 PM
Interesting.. I guess it worked for McGahee if i'm not mistaken?

McGahee tore his ACL, MCL, and PCL. Carson Palmer tore the ACL and MCL. I think Dunta's injury involved the ACL. I mean, there've been lots and lots of guys who've come back from ACL injuries over the past decade.

Shoot - this is the third time O.D.'s gone through ACL surgery. First in HS, then again in college.

CloakNNNdagger
08-01-2010, 10:29 PM
Owen Daniels placed on physically unable to perform listTight end not activated yet Aaron Wilson (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Owen-Daniels-placed-on-physically-unable-to-perform-list.html)

July 30, 2010, 10:48 PM EST
The Houston Texans placed tight ends Owen Daniels and Anthony Hill on the active physically unable to perform list.

Daniels predicted recently that he'll be ready by the first game of the regular season after tearing his anterior cruciate ligament in his knee last season.

"The Doc says my ACL looks great, so I'm looking forward to being ready for Week 1," Daniels said during a fan chat on NFL.com over the summer.

The restricted free agent said he wants to sign a long-term deal with the Texans at some point.

"I would love to play for the Texans for the duration of my career," Daniels said. "It's a great city to play in, and great coaches and an owner to play for. We're very close to being very good, and I'd like to see it all the way through. Players sticking with one team for their entire careers doesn't happen that often, but I would really like to stick with the Texans."

HJam72
08-01-2010, 10:50 PM
Yeah, I'm sure he'd love to sign a 20 year deal right about now, LOL.

The Pencil Neck
08-01-2010, 10:53 PM
I complained. Still am a bit. It is a waste of a pick if one player drafted in the last two years (barring 6th/7th rounders) gets cut. Just a waste.

We dont know if OD has had a setback. Maybe, maybe not. But the team has 6 or so TEs on the roster. That is an obscene amount. Now, Casey can play some FB and LS, but that still leaves Dreeson, OD and Graham as virtually identical players. Hill is the blocking TE, but it looks like people want him cut.

I am not as angry as I was during the draft, but I still feel like th Graham pick could have been better spent. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

I totally disagree.

You've got OD who was a question mark at the time of the draft. Everyone hoped he'd be back by the start of the season but this is his 3rd ACL injury. Can't count on him being there.

You've got Hill who you could look at as a wasted draft pick because he didn't make an immediate impact as a rookie and then ended up on IR so quickly. You shouldn't count him as a TE on the roster because his injury was so severe he's doubtful to be ready for the season. He'll be on PUP and possibly IR'd. I don't see him as a wasted pick... yet. He could end up being one.

You've got Dreessen who had shoulder surgery. He was probably going to be back by TC but maybe not.

So we just had Casey. And I don't think they envision Casey as a pure TE.

So, drafting GG made perfect sense. Especially with him falling to him unexpectedly and him being such a great prospect.

They even had to pick up a TE off the street to fill out the roster. You've got 4 guys that are taking snaps right now: Dreessen, Casey, GG, and Fine. There's nothing weird about that.

Lucky
08-01-2010, 10:54 PM
yes, not Graham but Hill & Casey.
It can't be said with certainty what was a mistake, or if a mistake has occurred all. Might want to see how the season plays out.

Graham was a productive college player at a major school. He was solid value where he was selected. Casey was an extraordinary productive college player with good measurables. Great value where he was selected. Hill was one of the premier blocking TEs in his draft class. He had injury issues in school, and they have cropped up again as a pro.

Had there been some magical settlement on a new CBA, Daniels could be an unrestricted FA, right now. As it is, there's a real question as to his availability for the 2010 season. While the drafting of 3 TEs in two years may seem superfluous, it could turn out to be absolutely necessary. Daniels absence over the 2nd half of the '09 season created a tidy excuse for the Texans to fall just short of their first playoff appearance. There can be no such excuses in 2010.

thunderkyss
08-01-2010, 11:17 PM
its ok dont we have like 5 Tight ends

what really need 2 do is unleash our 3 headed Demons of runing backs on the colts and run the ball down there throat thats how we beat them last time on the legs of ron dayne

I personally don't agree with this. If you can just plug and play players, then maybe.

But if you've got a real deal proven playmaker at a position, you're better off getting him back on the field than trying a bunch of unprovens.

Don't get me wrong, I know this system is tightend friendly. But that doesn't mean you can take Jeb Putzier and make a Shannon Sharp.

sportfan73
08-01-2010, 11:23 PM
Why can't this ever happen to The Colts?

Bob Sanders?

GP
08-02-2010, 12:04 AM
What's difficult is that it felt like we hit the lottery with Owen Daniels. We stumbled upon a fantastic TE. Caught lightning in a bottle, so to speak.

And let's face it: All these TE picks might never reproduce the same sort of talent that we had with Owen Daniels. They can still be productive, don't get me wrong. But there was that special something with OD that you see in other guys such as Tom Brady or Terrell Davis or other players who were under-the-radar and then just exploded once they got their shot in the pros.

We're staring at a TE future, for this team, that's frankly as up-in-the-air as our running back situation. Someone has got to solidify that spot and stay there. Slaton took a step backward last season, and Daniels has the injury issue that's holding him back. And in the background, for both those positions, you see guys who are trying to rise to the occasion. Can they? Someone has to. Period.

I think I'm only saying what everyone else is thinking right now. Not trying to be a Doug Downer, but trying to put into words what we're all feeling. The TE situation is a really, really unsettled aspect of our offense that I think makes everything else work better. Without a stud TE in this system of Kubiak's, it just makes things more difficult for Schaub--If anything else, it gives Schaub a safety valve when the offensive line blows an assignment or the LBs or DBs blitz and lose containment on the TE in the process.

How many times did you see Schaub hit Daniels, in stride, and Owen grabs himself about 15 or 20 yards of YAC? It was like laser-beam precision with those two guys. We have got to have somebody be there and be there all year, especially with our schedule and with an offensive line that's not known for being able to out-muscle its opposing defensive line.

GuerillaBlack
08-02-2010, 11:56 AM
So, who was that one poster that was complaining about drafting two TE's in back-to-back drafts?

One poster? Many did. Besides, this "setback" isn't even official, I don't think. I believe it was started up by Mortenson.

dalemurphy
08-02-2010, 12:25 PM
One poster? Many did. Besides, this "setback" isn't even official, I don't think. I believe it was started up by Mortenson.

Setback or not, I watched him working on the side on Saturday and Sunday morning, and he looked good. He's clearly farther along than A.Hill. He's flexible, not limping, and running routes at 2/3 speed with Schaub throwing him passes. So, I'm not worried about his season. Now, perhaps he's limited or inactive in week one, but I don't see him heading to IR or even regular season PUP.

Cjeremy635
08-02-2010, 12:37 PM
Setback or not, I watched him working on the side on Saturday and Sunday morning, and he looked good. He's clearly farther along than A.Hill. He's flexible, not limping, and running routes at 2/3 speed with Schaub throwing him passes. So, I'm not worried about his season. Now, perhaps he's limited or inactive in week one, but I don't see him heading to IR or even regular season PUP.

I hope you're right. We need to have as much continuity as possible and OD is a big part of that.

GuerillaBlack
08-02-2010, 02:39 PM
Setback or not, I watched him working on the side on Saturday and Sunday morning, and he looked good. He's clearly farther along than A.Hill. He's flexible, not limping, and running routes at 2/3 speed with Schaub throwing him passes. So, I'm not worried about his season. Now, perhaps he's limited or inactive in week one, but I don't see him heading to IR or even regular season PUP.

I think they'll sit out OD either the entire preseason, or let him play on game (Week 3 or 4), until the regular season starts.

rmartin65
08-02-2010, 04:17 PM
I totally disagree.

You've got OD who was a question mark at the time of the draft. Everyone hoped he'd be back by the start of the season but this is his 3rd ACL injury. Can't count on him being there.

You've got Hill who you could look at as a wasted draft pick because he didn't make an immediate impact as a rookie and then ended up on IR so quickly. You shouldn't count him as a TE on the roster because his injury was so severe he's doubtful to be ready for the season. He'll be on PUP and possibly IR'd. I don't see him as a wasted pick... yet. He could end up being one.

You've got Dreessen who had shoulder surgery. He was probably going to be back by TC but maybe not.

So we just had Casey. And I don't think they envision Casey as a pure TE.

So, drafting GG made perfect sense. Especially with him falling to him unexpectedly and him being such a great prospect.

They even had to pick up a TE off the street to fill out the roster. You've got 4 guys that are taking snaps right now: Dreessen, Casey, GG, and Fine. There's nothing weird about that.

I agree that they had to find TEs for camp. But I disagree with drafting a player to fill that role. What happens if all these guys return healthy? How do they fit OD, Dreessen (sp?), Casey, Hill, and GG on the roster? How many teams carry 5 TEs? That is a ton, and none of them will make it to the PS. Say even Hill does not return, that is still 4 TEs. Still more than most teams have (3). Also, Hill brings value because he is a blocking TE. I know people are saying GG is a good blocker, but Hill was considered another OT he was so good at blocking.

I am still voting for GG, I vote for all Texans players. I just think that a pick somewhere (whether in the 09 draft or the 10 draft) was wasted.

CloakNNNdagger
08-02-2010, 04:34 PM
I agree that they had to find TEs for camp. But I disagree with drafting a player to fill that role. What happens if all these guys return healthy? How do they fit OD, Dreessen (sp?), Casey, Hill, and GG on the roster? How many teams carry 5 TEs? That is a ton, and none of them will make it to the PS. Say even Hill does not return, that is still 4 TEs. Still more than most teams have (3). Also, Hill brings value because he is a blocking TE. I know people are saying GG is a good blocker, but Hill was considered another OT he was so good at blocking.

I am still voting for GG, I vote for all Texans players. I just think that a pick somewhere (whether in the 09 draft or the 10 draft) was wasted.

If that scenario would occur, one of the TEs would come up with a "mysterious" injury and be stored away as IR, or PUP to "miraculously" re-emerge if there is a legitimate TE injury later in the season.:shades:

76Texan
08-02-2010, 04:40 PM
http://www.nfl.com/trainingcamp/story/09000d5d81977133/article/pro-bowl-was-nice-but-schaub-hoping-for-more-from-texans?module=HP_cp2

Extras:

Tight end Owen Daniels is making good progress from the ACL surgery he had last November, and is expected to be ready for the start of the regular season. Daniels is not participating in practice, which is more of a precaution because he insists he has no limitations on the knee. Whether he will play any preseason games is uncertain, and hardly a priority beyond the ability to knock off a little pad-wearing rust. "Maybe third game, maybe a series in the fourth game," Daniels said. ... The Texans are expressing confidence that former starter Xavier Adibi will do an adequate job while Cushing, the 2009 Defensive Rookie of the Year, serves a four-game suspension for violating the NFL's substance-abuse policy. ...

Brisco_County
08-02-2010, 05:08 PM
Brisco, what about James Casey? Kubiak had some high praise for him such as the most improved player during OTA's. I remember reading how his blocking has improved as well as is route running.

I'm very interested to see if he'll step up to the plate and become a monster threat in the receiving game like he was at Rice.

I think Casey will have some valuable uses on this team, especially in two-TE sets or special plays using an H-back, but I'm certain that the future TE of this team is Graham, and he'll step into that role seamlessly. He's already doing one-handed catches a' la Daniels.

Question..... I've always thought tearing an ACL was career ending injury?

There are varying degrees of tears that affect recovery. CloakNNNDagger has a thread somewhere around here explaining it. It was posted right after OD's injury last season.

The Pencil Neck
08-02-2010, 06:18 PM
I agree that they had to find TEs for camp. But I disagree with drafting a player to fill that role. What happens if all these guys return healthy? How do they fit OD, Dreessen (sp?), Casey, Hill, and GG on the roster? How many teams carry 5 TEs? That is a ton, and none of them will make it to the PS. Say even Hill does not return, that is still 4 TEs. Still more than most teams have (3). Also, Hill brings value because he is a blocking TE. I know people are saying GG is a good blocker, but Hill was considered another OT he was so good at blocking.

I am still voting for GG, I vote for all Texans players. I just think that a pick somewhere (whether in the 09 draft or the 10 draft) was wasted.

Many teams only carry 3 TE's but most teams also have to add an extra spot for the LS. We've got two LS in our TE list (Dreessen, and Casey).

Casey was definitely a case of taking a flyer on a talented kid. If you want to call that a wasted pick... ok. I don't think that's accurate, though. I think it's a case where if someone falls in the draft, you take him even if it's not a position of need.

But I don't see any of the other picks as being wasteful.

We may end up with 5 TE's on our roster and not enough balls to go around, but that's not a bad thing to me. We could even trade away one of these guys when it comes down to it.

rmartin65
08-02-2010, 09:00 PM
Many teams only carry 3 TE's but most teams also have to add an extra spot for the LS. We've got two LS in our TE list (Dreessen, and Casey).

Casey was definitely a case of taking a flyer on a talented kid. If you want to call that a wasted pick... ok. I don't think that's accurate, though. I think it's a case where if someone falls in the draft, you take him even if it's not a position of need.

But I don't see any of the other picks as being wasteful.

We may end up with 5 TE's on our roster and not enough balls to go around, but that's not a bad thing to me. We could even trade away one of these guys when it comes down to it.

You are right about the LS, which is why I would have no problem with taking 4 TEs. Actually, I would prefer taking 4 TEs, one of whom can LS, than 3 TEs and a LS that does nothing else. Still, 5 is too many. That 5th TE could be better depth in the OL, DL or even LB. Maybe it gives Holliday a spot (as a pure returner), or maybe an extra DB.

Wasted picks to me are picks that dont help a team as much as another pick would be. Don't get me wrong; when the Casey pick happened, I loved it. I had him as a 2nd/3rd round talent. And I dont necessarily dislike the Graham pick. I think he can be a real player. I just dislike the combo, especially when Hill is added in.

The Pencil Neck
08-02-2010, 09:38 PM
You are right about the LS, which is why I would have no problem with taking 4 TEs. Actually, I would prefer taking 4 TEs, one of whom can LS, than 3 TEs and a LS that does nothing else. Still, 5 is too many. That 5th TE could be better depth in the OL, DL or even LB. Maybe it gives Holliday a spot (as a pure returner), or maybe an extra DB.

Wasted picks to me are picks that dont help a team as much as another pick would be. Don't get me wrong; when the Casey pick happened, I loved it. I had him as a 2nd/3rd round talent. And I dont necessarily dislike the Graham pick. I think he can be a real player. I just dislike the combo, especially when Hill is added in.

Life isn't perfect. No one has perfect knowledge. No matter what pick you make, someone can almost always argue that another pick would have been better. Especially in hindsight.

At this point, we don't know if Hill is ever going to make the field again. We don't know if he was performing and growing; we do know that he was having problems finding the field as a rookie behind OD and Dreessen. But his pick wasn't necessarily a bad pick. At the time of the pick, we were having problems running in the red zone and getting a good blocking TE seemed a good way to solve that problem. So, the Hill pick wasn't bad.

The Casey pick was a surprise, but it wasn't necessarily bad, either. It's only a 5th round pick and the player is very talented. He's got a lot of possible upside. He was graded by most people as being a 2nd or 3rd round talent so getting him in the 5th is a classic case of BPA.

The Garrett Graham pick had totally other circumstances related to it. At the point of his pick, we've got 1 functional TE that we know we're going to have for TC. We've got 1 TE (OD) that could hold out and that might not make it back from injury. We've got another TE that's probably going to be PUP'd or IR'd for the coming season (Hill). We've got another TE that's coming off of shoulder surgery (Dreessen.) And then we've got an OD clone staring at us as BPA. How do we not take him?

Can we look back in hindsight and say "Maybe we could have chosen a little differently?" Sure. But it's almost intellectually dishonest to do that. The moves made sense at the time. AND, the moves don't necessarily NOT make sense right now.

The way I see it, we're going to have 4 TE's: OD, Dreessen, GG, and Casey. Dreessen and Casey are both LS but also could actually play TE. Casey could also back up the FB position. Both of them will definitely play ST. OD and GG will probably be our main two receiving TE's.

The odd man out is Hill and it's because of his injury that we were even open to drafting GG in the first place. I expect Hill to be IR'd this season and the decision about what to do deferred until next season. OD or Dreessen will probably be moved.

It's at that point when we see what we end up with that we'll be able to say whether a pick was wasted or not. To say a pick was wasted at this point seems premature to me.

Texans_Chick
08-03-2010, 06:30 AM
When I saw the Mort report, it took me aback. It's possible he got that wrong--he wasn't in town for very long, and neither Kubiak or OD were talking about setbacks at all. Rather, every statement was pretty consistent--that keeping him out is precautionary, just ramping up his rehab slowly.

Texans_Chick
08-03-2010, 06:43 AM
I'm going to find out the deal.

rmartin65
08-03-2010, 08:24 AM
Life isn't perfect. No one has perfect knowledge. No matter what pick you make, someone can almost always argue that another pick would have been better. Especially in hindsight.

At this point, we don't know if Hill is ever going to make the field again. We don't know if he was performing and growing; we do know that he was having problems finding the field as a rookie behind OD and Dreessen. But his pick wasn't necessarily a bad pick. At the time of the pick, we were having problems running in the red zone and getting a good blocking TE seemed a good way to solve that problem. So, the Hill pick wasn't bad.

The Casey pick was a surprise, but it wasn't necessarily bad, either. It's only a 5th round pick and the player is very talented. He's got a lot of possible upside. He was graded by most people as being a 2nd or 3rd round talent so getting him in the 5th is a classic case of BPA.

The Garrett Graham pick had totally other circumstances related to it. At the point of his pick, we've got 1 functional TE that we know we're going to have for TC. We've got 1 TE (OD) that could hold out and that might not make it back from injury. We've got another TE that's probably going to be PUP'd or IR'd for the coming season (Hill). We've got another TE that's coming off of shoulder surgery (Dreessen.) And then we've got an OD clone staring at us as BPA. How do we not take him?

Can we look back in hindsight and say "Maybe we could have chosen a little differently?" Sure. But it's almost intellectually dishonest to do that. The moves made sense at the time. AND, the moves don't necessarily NOT make sense right now.

The way I see it, we're going to have 4 TE's: OD, Dreessen, GG, and Casey. Dreessen and Casey are both LS but also could actually play TE. Casey could also back up the FB position. Both of them will definitely play ST. OD and GG will probably be our main two receiving TE's.

The odd man out is Hill and it's because of his injury that we were even open to drafting GG in the first place. I expect Hill to be IR'd this season and the decision about what to do deferred until next season. OD or Dreessen will probably be moved.

It's at that point when we see what we end up with that we'll be able to say whether a pick was wasted or not. To say a pick was wasted at this point seems premature to me.

You bring up some very valid points. You are absolutely right about the "hindsight is 20/20" bit.

However, it still sticks in my craw (always wanted to use that) that in the last 2 years, 3 TEs have been taken. One of which, will most likely not make the roster, or will be taking a roster spot from a position lacking depth.

I understand the rationale for each pick. I would actually love for Hill to get healthy and become a fantastic run blocking TE. In fact, if the Graham pick had been a blocking TE, I probably would not be as bothered. It really is a different niche.

dalemurphy
08-03-2010, 08:27 AM
I'm going to find out the deal.

:bravo:

76Texan
08-03-2010, 12:11 PM
You bring up some very valid points. You are absolutely right about the "hindsight is 20/20" bit.

However, it still sticks in my craw (always wanted to use that) that in the last 2 years, 3 TEs have been taken. One of which, will most likely not make the roster, or will be taking a roster spot from a position lacking depth.

I understand the rationale for each pick. I would actually love for Hill to get healthy and become a fantastic run blocking TE. In fact, if the Graham pick had been a blocking TE, I probably would not be as bothered. It really is a different niche.
If Kubiak could, I think he would want to carry 4 TEs and has one on the PS for depth at all times.

We should see the comeback of the 3-TE set this year (something the Texans couldn't afford to do last year). And that was another reason why they had been drafting quite a few TEs, IMO.

thunderkyss
08-03-2010, 12:21 PM
If Kubiak could, I think he would want to carry 4 TEs and has one on the PS for depth at all times.

We should see the comeback of the 3-TE set this year (something the Texans couldn't afford to do last year). And that was another reason why they had been drafting quite a few TEs, IMO.

Agree... Kubiak's system is very TE heavy. I don't think he believes you could have too many. We'll carry 5, if we have to. He'll just call one a fullback.

Sluggo
08-03-2010, 12:33 PM
Tight end is a huge part of Kubiak's offense. If Owen Daniels is anything less than 100% it is going to have a negative impact on the offense. I contend that the loss of OD hurt the offense worse than when we lost Andre a couple years ago. There is noone proven on the roster who brings to the table what Daniels does. Perhaps Casey or Graham steps up this year if OD can't go.

We can all go on and on about how accurate we think the report is, but to me the most telling fact is that he has yet to take the field with his teammates. Sports medicine is what I do for a living. It sure seems to me that he has had a setback.

Not good.

CloakNNNdagger
08-03-2010, 05:22 PM
Here's a timely article which was just published in The American Journal of Sports Medicine. In it's abstract form, it will give you a simplified "hang your hat" look at the question that everyone always has questions about.........NFL player return to duty rates following ACL repair.

Coincidentally, Dr. James Andrews, Daniel's operating surgeon, is co-author.

Return to Play After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Athletes

Background: Rupture of the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) is a common and potentially career-threatening injury in the National Football League (NFL). The return to play (RTP) percentage and the factors affecting RTP after ACL reconstruction in NFL players are not well defined.

Purpose: To determine the actual rate of return to professional football play in the NFL after ACL reconstruction surgery and to determine what factors can predict ability to RTP. We hypothesize that the RTP percentage in this unique patient population will differ from previously reported populations.

Methods: Forty-nine NFL athletes who had undergone primary ACL reconstruction at our institution were followed to determine their RTP percentages and factors predicting RTP.

Results: Sixty-three percent (31 of 49) of NFL athletes returned to NFL game play at an average of 10.8 months after surgery. Age at time of surgery, position, and the type and number of procedures were not significantly different between those who did and did not return to play. The average number of games before surgery was 51 for those who did return to play and 28 for those who did not (P = .039). The odds ratio favoring RTP was 5.5 (P = .016) for those players who had more than 4 years of NFL experience before surgery. The average NFL draft round was 3.4 for the group who returned to play and 6.4 for those who did not (P < .001). The odds ratio favoring RTP was 12.2 (P < .001) for those players drafted in the first 4 rounds of the NFL draft compared with those drafted after the fourth round.

Conclusions: The RTP rates after ACL reconstruction in NFL football players are lower than previously perceived. More experienced and established athletes are more likely to return to competition at the same level after this procedure than those with less professional experience. Being selected in the first 4 rounds of the NFL draft was highly predictive of RTP. LINK (http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/early/2010/07/07/0363546510372798.abstract)

Keep in mind that Daniels underwent surgery November 17, 2009. This is only 8 months later. And, despite occasional stories of "short miracle comebacks," even with the most intensive rehab, the knee seldom regains close to normal status until at least 1 year (which, in the case of Daniels would not be until mid November 2010). Pushing too hard or coming back too early can certainly lead to setbacks and/or reinjury. Keep in mind that if he shows any compromise or compensation on his other repaired knee (x2), undue stresses may be unevenly transferred and lead to further problems. Finally, despite the miracles of today's most advanced techniques in surgeries and rehab, there is always the virtually unalterable dreaded factor of the development and progression of the degenerative changes of osteoarthritis. And unfortunately, that is not the exception. It's a factor that not uncommonly leads an NFL player to early retirement. Only time and patience will definitively answer all the questions surrounding Daniel's unique situation.

Wolf
08-03-2010, 08:36 PM
to keep the the TE theme

Multi-tasker James Casey taking on 3 positions to impress Texans coach

HOUSTON - The way James Casey sees it, the more positions he shows he can play, the more likely he will be to make the Houston Texans' roster.

Casey, entering his second season, is competing for time at tight end at training camp, and he's also working with the fullbacks and deep snappers, trying to catch coach Gary Kubiak's eye with his versatility.

"Basically, my whole goal is to work to get onto the field," Casey said. "Whatever I can do to be a starter, whether it's special teams, deep snapper, tight end, I'm just trying to get to that position."

Casey is working with the second team as a tight end, behind Joel Dreessen. Pro Bowler Owen Daniels is still out with a knee injury, and that creates more opportunities for Casey to impress the coaches.

And he has.

"When you're starting to put a roster together of people you count on, he's the poster child of that," Kubiak said. "He's got a situation where he's got a chance to prove that he could start in this league. There is a lot to expect from James, from a lot of people around here. And I know he realizes that, too.




http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/multi-tasker-james-casey-taking-on-3-positions-to-impress-texans-coach-99832049.html

thunderkyss
08-03-2010, 08:52 PM
If he can play full back (I mean really play fullback) and open holes for the Tailback, then he'll be a missmatch every time he steps on the field.

Suppose the opposing coach sees #86 on the field. He thinks, TE/WR, send in the nickel.
Then Casey lines up at full back with Foster/Tate behind him...

Or the coach can send in his base unit.. a 4-3 under... Casey then motions out wide, he's one on one with a LB out in space... or we can run from the Ace formation, since they are missing a LB in the box.

Texas T
08-04-2010, 09:35 AM
If he can play full back (I mean really play fullback) and open holes for the Tailback, then he'll be a missmatch every time he steps on the field.

Suppose the opposing coach sees #86 on the field. He thinks, TE/WR, send in the nickel.
Then Casey lines up at full back with Foster/Tate behind him...

Or the coach can send in his base unit.. a 4-3 under... Casey then motions out wide, he's one on one with a LB out in space... or we can run from the Ace formation, since they are missing a LB in the box.

Is it nice to be able to talk about the versitility of the team.
All these options should create a really fun year.
Lets all hope that Kubs can see what we all see with the team this year and mixes it up.

J_R
08-17-2010, 10:33 AM
NickScurfield (http://twitter.com/NickScurfield)
After practice this morning, coach Gary Kubiak said that TE Owen Daniels is "progressing very well" in his rehab from ACL surgery. Kubiak: "Do I expect to see him (Daniels) in the preseason? It would be the last game if we’re going to see him. He’s right on schedule.

keyser
08-17-2010, 10:39 AM
NickScurfield (http://twitter.com/NickScurfield)
After practice this morning, coach Gary Kubiak said that TE Owen Daniels is "progressing very well" in his rehab from ACL surgery. Kubiak: "Do I expect to see him (Daniels) in the preseason? It would be the last game if were going to see him. Hes right on schedule.

Finally, some good injury news...