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bckey
03-14-2005, 12:13 PM
Check this out from ESPN.com. Awesome if we can land him! He will probably cost too much though.

Orlando Pace (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2012782)

Doom Capers
03-14-2005, 12:23 PM
Wow. I thought we were not going to sign any O-linemen. Lets hope we can grab him!

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 12:24 PM
He is good but would cost us a whole lot of money when we are trying to stay young. On the other hand ask any NFL expert and they will put Orlando Pace as in the top 5 tackles in the league. I would not be hurt to see him protecting Carr's blindside, but for the price we will have to give him and what we will have to give up it is not likely to be worth it, if he is traded look for him to go to the Giants who are in desperate need of OL help even more so than we are

edo783
03-14-2005, 12:29 PM
Cost, cost, cost.....it will determin if we can/should do this. Love it if it doesn't put behind the eightball. Think Sharper might be part of it some way?

nunusguy
03-14-2005, 12:42 PM
Yea, right Cass, you're not going to do squat in FA this year. I mean odds
are against a deal being worked out, but he's not flying down here to tour
the Museum of Fine Arts over there by the Warrick. So we can just forget about what he's said about his intentions regarding the draft because its all a smoke screen with Cass.
As far as taking this guy, it would be far and away our most significant FA
acquisition. It would be huge.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 12:45 PM
I'd send them Sharper, Wand and our first pick....but that may not be enough. Give Foreman a broom and perhaps he could clean up their locker rooms too. He has some sort of value. :heh:

F-minus67
03-14-2005, 12:53 PM
Then again, it kind of hard to sign your rookies when you lost an arm and a leg. :heh:

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 12:54 PM
That would be paying to much for Orlando. We WILL draft a Tackle in the draft so it would be paying way to much. I am still sold on CASS making a package that involves sharper our first and one of our thirds in order to move up in the draft if DJ is still available.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 12:58 PM
Nobody knows what we WILL do, and franchise Tackles are very rare. They are not in every draft (like this year as an example).

nunusguy
03-14-2005, 12:59 PM
I'd send them Sharper, Wand and our first pick....but that may not be enough. Give Foreman a broom and perhaps he could clean up their locker rooms too. He has some sort of value. :heh:
That's a lot to pay for a 30 year old premadona who usually doesn't start attending practice until the regular season begins, but yea, its probably the bullet we have to bite to pick up a top tier LT like this guy. I figured the old
man (McNair) would get his 2 cents worth in to take care of his boy DC.
Remember the last thing he said right after the final game with the Browns -
Carr will be our QB for a long time and we need to do something about protecting him.

done88
03-14-2005, 01:00 PM
What ever it takes bring him in.
Please!

SESupergenius
03-14-2005, 01:06 PM
You are crazy if you don't think that Pace is not worth it. We've spent 3 seasons now trying to shore up the line since the Boselli failure. I just feel that this is going to cost our defense severely with any trades involving Sharper. I'm not keen on revamping the defense yet again this year.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 01:07 PM
That's a lot to pay for a 30 year old premadona who usually doesn't start attending practice until the regular season begins, but yea, its probably the bullet we have to bite to pick up a top tier LT like this guy. I figured the old
man (McNair) would get his 2 cents worth in to take care of his boy DC.
Remember the last thing he said right after the final game with the Browns -
Carr will be our QB for a long time and we need to do something about protecting him.I think that the Rams would have to replace Pace or the deal may not happen. There are no franchise LT's in this draft and we have a nice prospect in Wand. Sharper is gone anyway so what we would be doing is giving up Wand for Pace as our first round pick. All pure speculation by me, but it would be worth it. The first thing I would do is find out what Bruce Matthews ate and start force feeding him as soon as he signed the contract. :heh:

hot pickle
03-14-2005, 01:09 PM
its not worth it, i say give wand another year, then see if he has got better

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 01:16 PM
We are not drafting a franchise tackle just a functional one look at Shane Olivea for the Chargers or Nat Dorsey for the Vikes if you want to check it out.

Blake
03-14-2005, 01:18 PM
Fanball (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=fanball-ramspacetryingtowork&prov=fanball&type=lgns)

Another article on it.

"News
Rams' offensive tackle Orlando Pace is visiting with the Texans on Monday in hopes of facilitating a trade, according to ESPN reporter John Clayton. Pace has been discussing a long-term contract with the Rams, but he would also accept a trade. The Rams have until March 16 to sign Pace or he will not be able to negotiate with the team until July 15. Rams' head coach Mike Martz has indicated in recent weeks that he is not keen on the idea of using the franchise tag on Pace for a third consecutive year.

Views
The Rams are seeking at least a first-round pick in exchange for their franchise lineman. We can only assume that Texans' quarterback David Carr is begging for this trade to happen after being sacked 49 times last year. On the flip side, Marc Bulger was sacked 50 times even with Pace in the lineup last season, so we can't even imagine how lousy his offensive line would be without the veteran left tackle."

U4ikrob
03-14-2005, 01:20 PM
Thats an easy thing to say [wait another year] when your not the guy having to take the snap between the tackles.

Why not ask DC what he thinks about the idea to solidy the LT position with a premier LT like Pace? I bet he would be jumping up and down crazy kind of happy.

A little off topic - The QB position has alot of factors to consider, but one thing I think thats almost ultimately important overall is 'Confidence' and in this case i'm talking confidence in those guys around him to dothir job and protect him. IMO we give DC an LT he is confident enough to turn his back to and I'll bet you will see a breakout Pro-bowl type of season for him. OF course I must also admit - the rest of the line playin gwell will certainly facotr into that also. :)

Blake
03-14-2005, 01:21 PM
I think it would be worth it. Everyone that doesnt want him only says that he cost to much. It sounds like you all want something for nothing. This is a top 3 left tackle here. A first round overall pick. He isnt going to be traded for nothing; and for good reason.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 01:22 PM
I would jump at the chance to land Pace. IMO left tackle might be the single most important position on a team. That is why 24 of the other 31 teams have 1st rounders playing the position. It is the foundation of the offense. If you have a subpar LT, your line will most definitely have problems. If your line has problems, the offense will struggle. You get the idea.

IshouldbeGM
03-14-2005, 01:24 PM
according to espn, for a deal to be worked out it would have to be two 1st round picks, or a 1st and more (players). I just think its too much for a tackle. Seth Wand wasnt the problem on o-line.....its was mckinney and the time it took for them to get the zone blocking scheme down. No way do i give up the 13th pick.

edo783
03-14-2005, 01:24 PM
I would want to hang onto Wand if possible. A young tackle with experience and some up side. The first, one of the 3rds and Sharper (a first round quality guy, but not going to get one) and if needed a third from next years draft. The real fly in this ointment is that BOTH Pace and Sharper probably would have to re-do their deals before both teams would accept them. The clock will drive this along quicker than usual as it has to get done by I think midnight tomorrow or nothing can be done until June 15. Puts a little pressure on everyone to move along. Also, Pace just hired new reps and they will want to move it along for their new client. He is looking for a long term, probably 6-7 years and a BIG bonus around 20 Mill. At 29-30 years old we could resonably expect 4-6 years of good play. Not sure how badly this would affect the cap issue.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 01:28 PM
He would be our line's anchor for at least 5 years, why would we still need Wand? I would think Wand would be part of the trade.

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 01:33 PM
You all have to look at the overall ramifications of acquiring pace.
1. Houston will not have a 1st round pick
2. Future Salary Cap will suffer
3. Our overall Depth at all positions will be decreased
4. Pace tends to break down as the season wears on due to bad workout regime
Positives
1. A Book end LT that will protect DC for at least 4 yrs (we still need a RT)
2. Boost to overall confidence (worth two spots)

The Cons out weigh the Pros to this deal. I think adding an explosive rookie on D and O plus a two-punch for DD in the backfield, and an upgrade at TE will have just as much or more effect than acquiring Pace

twinkletwinkle
03-14-2005, 01:35 PM
Pace is so worth it! Carr better be pulling for him bigtime. Here is the ESPN take:


Mar. 14 - With time running out to get a long-term deal with the Rams, Orlando Pace and his new agent, Kennard McGuire, are trying to facilitate a trade to the Texans, ESPN.com's John Clayton reports. Pace and McGuire flew to Houston on Monday.
The Rams have until March 16 to finalize a new contract with Pace, a franchise player, before a four-month negotiating blackout period begins. That Pace is visiting Houston likely means he doubts any long-term financial resolution can be reached with the Rams.

A multiyear deal for Pace, who currently counts $8.425 million against St. Louis' salary cap, could trim $3 million or more from that cap figure.

ThaShark316
03-14-2005, 01:36 PM
33 people viewing this thread...SHOCKING!! :heh:

Man, it would be nice to get Pace to block for Carr. He wouldn't get touched with that guy watching his back. That said, I hate trading 1st round picks. :(

But to get something, you gotta give something, so oh well. MAKE IT HAPPEN BIG C! :thumbup

Tailgate
03-14-2005, 01:38 PM
You all have to look at the overall ramifications of acquiring pace.
1. Houston will not have a 1st round pick
2. Future Salary Cap will suffer
3. Our overall Depth at all positions will be decreased
4. Pace tends to break down as the season wears on due to bad workout regime
Positives
1. A Book end LT that will protect DC for at least 4 yrs (we still need a RT)
2. Boost to overall confidence (worth two spots)

The Cons out weigh the Pros to this deal. I think adding an explosive rookie on D and O plus a two-punch for DD in the backfield, and an upgrade at TE will have just as much or more effect than acquiring Pace


Not necessarily. What do we truly need huge cap space for if we have minimal holes to fill? We draft depth at DL, WR and CB. What else is there?? Possibly TE, but who knows where Joppru will end up.

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 01:40 PM
Everyone is thinking that Pace is the end all of end alls. He is in the Top 5 of LT likely number 4 or 5. In case you all did not realize Pace's Quarterback was sacked more times than Carr and Pace gave up some of those. Pace is definately the best player the Texans have ever signed but he COST TOO MUCH!!

It is a catch 22!!

nunusguy
03-14-2005, 01:40 PM
You all have to look at the overall ramifications of acquiring pace.
1. Houston will not have a 1st round pick
2. Future Salary Cap will suffer
3. Our overall Depth at all positions will be decreased
4. Pace tends to break down as the season wears on due to bad workout regime
Positives
1. A Book end LT that will protect DC for at least 4 yrs (we still need a RT)
2. Boost to overall confidence (worth two spots)

Amend Positives to read:
1. A Book end LT that will protect DC for at least 4 yrs (we still need a RT)
2. Boost to overall confidence (worth two spots)
3. With premeire LT, Texans now legit playoff contender beginning in Fall-2005

Blake
03-14-2005, 01:42 PM
I think adding an explosive rookie on D and O plus a two-punch for DD in the backfield, and an upgrade at TE will have just as much or more effect than acquiring Pace

What makes you think our rookies will be explosive? At least with Pace, you know what to expect from him...

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 01:43 PM
We are a Legit Playoff contender without Pace. You realize that if we would have won three of our games namely Detroit, Cleveland, and Green BAy, we would have been in the playoffs instead of the Broncos.

Tailgate
03-14-2005, 01:43 PM
I am thinking that 2 first rounders are just the START of negotiations. I think it would eventually be worked to cost us our 13, plus maybe 3rd this year. Or 13, plus a player or 2nd next year.

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 01:45 PM
Explosive would mean adding speed, nasty nature, and youth to those positions. You know those things when you draft people. I mean everyone knew that D-Rob had a cocky nasty nature, we measured his speed in drills and he is young damn no wonder he was that good.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 01:45 PM
I say do it! Except I don't know about the 1st round this year. Will they accept next years 1st? 35 viewing :heh:Next year should be a stronger draft class. I'd rather give up this years pick instead of next seasons and take one of the solid second tier prospects with our second round pick as our first selection.

IshouldbeGM
03-14-2005, 01:48 PM
Im against giving up a first round pick, however, I dont think theres a player at 13 who can come in and provide that immediate impact as a rookie that Pace will provide im his first season here. And you never know, maybe cass will trade back into the 1st round like he did last yr if he gives up this yrs #1 pick....or maybe he'll trade a 2006 #1 pick, ill be all for that.

Blake
03-14-2005, 01:48 PM
Explosive would mean adding speed, nasty nature, and youth to those positions. You know those things when you draft people. I mean everyone knew that D-Rob had a cocky nasty nature, we measured his speed in drills and he is young damn no wonder he was that good.

My point is that you can get a pro-bowl talent on your team. Or we can spend it on a rookie, who will eventually be good, or a bust.

F-minus67
03-14-2005, 01:50 PM
Does anyone know how many sacks Pace has given up for the past few seasons?

infantrycak
03-14-2005, 01:51 PM
Does anyone know how many sacks Pace has given up for the past few seasons?

5, 4 and 2 in the last three years.

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 01:52 PM
Ok that makes since DC. I understand your perspective but if we are going to do this then we are going to give up alot more than what we are going to get. But who knows maybe CC will make the trade and we will get great picks with the rest of the draft. Building through the draft is just my personal view of how to build a great franchise. Eventhough I think Minnesota might spoil that view.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-14-2005, 01:53 PM
You realize that if we would have won three of our games namely Detroit, Cleveland, and Green BAy, we would have been in the playoffs instead of the Broncos.



And if your aunt had balls, she would be your uncle.

IshouldbeGM
03-14-2005, 01:58 PM
left tackle wasnt the problem on o-line though....the defense was horrible, offensive playcalling was too conservative, mchinney and weigert had subpar yrs. There are too many holes to fill on this team. Pace would want a huge contract extension which means there would be too much money invested in 0-line (wade, weigert, pace) Its always safer to build the team through the draft , the patriots and eagles set the blueprint. Cass just has to learn to draft better....he cant draft anymore charles hills, bennie joppru's, dave ragones, tony hollings, or fred wearys.

infantrycak
03-14-2005, 02:01 PM
For comparison:

Willie Roaf--KC: 5, 5, 5
Walter Jones--Seatle: 0, 8.5, 2.5
Jonathon Odgen--Baltimore: 2.5, 3.25, 2
Tarik Glenn--Indy: 1, 3.5, 6
Matt Lepsis--Denver: 2.5, 2, 9
Chad Clifton--GB: 2, 2, 1
Matt Light--NE: 7.5, 3.5, 11.5

M@DD Mike
03-14-2005, 02:02 PM
Cass just has to learn to draft better....

??? If anyone is doing a good job on this staff its Cass.

nunusguy
03-14-2005, 02:03 PM
We're speculating up to now because (as far as we know) nothing has happened. But something that really kind of worries me is just how much they
might give up to get this guy. I think most of us would agree that they paid a healthy premium for Todd Wade last year. If they start talking about giving up this years and next years first round pick - then you're maybe doing something real stupid like the Vikings did way back when they traded their future to the Cowboys to get H. Walker.

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 02:03 PM
I agree. I do think Pace would be a great addition if we can get him at a premium, but if not then we are definately overpaying for him. But the likely hood is we will cut him in 4-6 years

Blake
03-14-2005, 02:07 PM
Building through the draft is just my personal view of how to build a great franchise. Eventhough I think Minnesota might spoil that view.

I agree with you here. I dont want to go out and overpay a bunch of FA. But when I guy like Pace is on the block, I will bend the rules. Either way im happy.

My gut says it wont happen. And we will use the 1st pick on an OLB, like Merriman.

ThaShark316
03-14-2005, 02:11 PM
I agree with you here. I dont want to go out and overpay a bunch of FA. But when I guy like Pace is on the block, I will bend the rules. Either way im happy.

My gut says it wont happen. And we will use the 1st pick on an OLB, like Merriman.


Merriman? Haven't u heard...people are putting him up there with DJ @ "best LB in the draft", hell some people have him @ #3 to CLE.

^^^that wasn't to mess over ur point, I was simply lettin you know what the "experts" were thinking.

texansfan1974
03-14-2005, 02:20 PM
Pace already plays for the Texans on my Madden game. I signed him through
FA. I payed him big money and hes doing very well. :woot

IshouldbeGM
03-14-2005, 02:22 PM
ill destroy you in madden

jermaine133
03-14-2005, 02:23 PM
HI everyone i am a rams fan, but not a troll. I got word on our message board that there is a possible Trade in the making between your texans and my rams?? who are you all willing to give up for Pace, im just wondering because i can't seem to find any links to the info. AND BY THE WAY..BEWARE, OF WHAT YOU ALL ARE GETTING INTO, PACE HAS HELD US HOSTAGE FOR THE LAST 3 SEASONS...IF YOU DON'T THROW ANY MONEY ON THE TABLE HIS FAT ***** WILL HOLD OUT ON TRAINING CAMP!

Blake
03-14-2005, 02:25 PM
AND BY THE WAY..BEWARE, OF WHAT YOU ALL ARE GETTING INTO, PACE HAS HELD US HOSTAGE FOR THE LAST 3 SEASONS...IF YOU DON'T THROW ANY MONEY ON THE TABLE HIS FAT ***** WILL HOLD OUT ON TRAINING CAMP!

Well if we trade for him, we will sign him to a long term deal. So he wont have to hold out.

MojoX
03-14-2005, 02:26 PM
HI everyone i am a rams fan, but not a troll. I got word on our message board that there is a possible Trade in the making between your texans and my rams?? who are you all willing to give up for Pace, im just wondering because i can't seem to find any links to the info. AND BY THE WAY..BEWARE, OF WHAT YOU ALL ARE GETTING INTO, PACE HAS HELD US HOSTAGE FOR THE LAST 3 SEASONS...IF YOU DON'T THROW ANY MONEY ON THE TABLE HIS FAT ***** WILL HOLD OUT ON TRAINING CAMP!
If this trade goes down, Pace will have his money. So noworries on that front.

IshouldbeGM
03-14-2005, 02:26 PM
From what ive heard and read the rams are looking for a 1st round pick. The texans have given jamie sharper and jay foreman permission to seek trades. Whether the texans have offered sharper or foreman, i dont know. But since pace is in houston, i doubt he came just to attend the rodeo. So im assuming the texans are for giving up that #1 the rams are looking for, and maybe jamie sharper. or foreman.

M@DD Mike
03-14-2005, 02:27 PM
Pace already plays for the Texans on my Madden game. I signed him through
FA. I payed him big money and hes doing very well. :woot


Outstanding !!!!

Blake
03-14-2005, 02:29 PM
FYI Foreman has been released. So dont count on him being traded.

jermaine133
03-14-2005, 02:35 PM
Well if we trade for him, we will sign him to a long term deal. So he wont have to hold out.


tru tru..but we have tried to sign him long term. we even put a 40mil offer on the table for fat azz..and he rejected it. This guy even fired his agents as a scape goat. But if this trade do go down we will have to have a #1 pick if that is the case, i do tell you all this tho, your Oline will be better with him, as for our Oline needs Youth, we will prolly try to get Alex Barron or Brown, then go after that DE, or S that we need.

MojoX
03-14-2005, 02:39 PM
tru tru..but we have tried to sign him long term. we even put a 40mil offer on the table for fat azz..and he rejected it. This guy even fired his agents as a scape goat. But if this trade do go down we will have to have a #1 pick if that is the case, i do tell you all this tho, your Oline will be better with him, as for our Oline needs Youth, we will prolly try to get Alex Barron or Brown, then go after that DE, or S that we need.
Weren't his agents the Postons? Firing those knuckle heads hardly qualifies as a bad thing.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 02:41 PM
Houston just released its second player today while Pace is in town. Foreman clears $2,210,000 and $3,140,000 of salary off the books as well for the next two years. I'm starting to think we are clearing out some cap space for this possible Pace signing. Eric Brown had salaries of $1,710,000 and $2,940,000 for this year and next. Glenn Earl is the starter so I anticipated his release, but coming today, with all this big news in Houston gives me some pause. I have my fingers crossed.

jermaine133
03-14-2005, 02:42 PM
yea that was a start firing the postons i heard those guys have bad reps...serious money grubbers, by the way how much are the texans under the cap??..i kno rite now we have like 3-5 mil left., after pace will free up bout 8 or 9 possibly if we deal him.

Nawzer
03-14-2005, 02:42 PM
The trade hasn't gone down yet, the article mentions that Pace is willing to look around. He is a franchise caliber left tackle and we could definitely use him on our team. I'm just not so sure on what we have to give up for him. Casserly has said that he wants to build the team around the draft and not sign expensive free agents. But this is a special case and I guess we can bend the rules just this one time. With Foreman being released today I think Sharper will be traded. If this trade does go down I will be happy but I'll also be wary of Pace's attitude. He has been a problem for the Rams for sometime now.

Tailgate
03-14-2005, 02:44 PM
Houston just released its second player today while Pace is in town. Foreman clears $2,210,000 and $3,140,000 of salary off the books as well for the next two years. I'm starting to think we are clearing out some cap space for this possible Pace signing. Eric Brown had salaries of $1,710,000 and $2,940,000 for this year and next. Glenn Earl is the starter so I anticipated his release, but coming today, with all this big news in Houston gives me some pause. I have my fingers crossed.


Wasnt the Foreman release just a matter of time??? Maybe this new "scenario" is what fueled them for today's release. Hmmm

texansfan1974
03-14-2005, 02:50 PM
The trade hasn't gone down yet, the article mentions that Pace is willing to look around. He is a franchise caliber left tackle and we could definitely use him on our team. I'm just not so sure on what we have to give up for him. Casserly has said that he wants to build the team around the draft and not sign expensive free agents. But this is a special case and I guess we can bend the rules just this one time. With Foreman being released today I think Sharper will be traded. If this trade does go down I will be happy but I'll also be wary of Pace's attitude. He has been a problem for the Rams for sometime now.
we need some attitude on this team every one here is just to nice.

titan hater
03-14-2005, 02:54 PM
The trade hasn't gone down yet, the article mentions that Pace is willing to look around. He is a franchise caliber left tackle and we could definitely use him on our team. I'm just not so sure on what we have to give up for him. Casserly has said that he wants to build the team around the draft and not sign expensive free agents. But this is a special case and I guess we can bend the rules just this one time. With Foreman being released today I think Sharper will be traded. If this trade does go down I will be happy but I'll also be wary of Pace's attitude. He has been a problem for the Rams for sometime now.


Chron.com:
``We are in discussions with the Rams,'' Texans vice president of communications Tony Wyllie said. ``Orlando and his agent are visiting Houston, but we won't have an announcement until the appropriate time.``


Translation: We only have a coule of small issues to take care of. Welcome to H-Town OP!!!!!! :thumbup

jermaine133
03-14-2005, 02:55 PM
we need some attitude on this team every one here is just to nice.

easy texasfan, i dont think that is the kind of attitude you want on your team, he is a "me first" player, who holds out on training camp if he does not have his so called deal. if your team needs money to get players this is the type of guy that wont restructure a contract or try to sign a long term..yah thas attitude...

texansfan1974
03-14-2005, 02:59 PM
he has already said he wants a long term deal.

Blake
03-14-2005, 03:00 PM
easy texasfan, i dont think that is the kind of attitude you want on your team, he is a "me first" player, who holds out on training camp if he does not have his so called deal. if your team needs money to get players this is the type of guy that wont restructure a contract or try to sign a long term..yah thas attitude...

Players dont like to be franchised. Especially 3 times in a row! That is why he is pissed at the Rams. He wants a long term deal. Not a yearly sallary, where if he gets hurt, and his career is over, no big deal to the rams, the can just send him packing. So im not surprised that he, or any other player with the franchise tag holds out.

Players hate the franchise tag. period.

jermaine133
03-14-2005, 03:01 PM
yea he says he wants 1 but throw an offer on the table and see dont he try and break the bank..

MojoX
03-14-2005, 03:02 PM
easy texasfan, i dont think that is the kind of attitude you want on your team, he is a "me first" player, who holds out on training camp if he does not have his so called deal. if your team needs money to get players this is the type of guy that wont restructure a contract or try to sign a long term..yah thas attitude...
In the NFL, I wouldn't criticise a player too much for holding out during contract negotiations. When a team places the F-tag on a player, that is just a prelude to some bad negotiations. I don't know the details of the Pace negotiations, but what I do know is that most of that stuff dealt with the Postsons and obviously Pace wasn't happy with the job they were doing so they were fired.

This next contract will likely be Pace's last real chance at big money. Once he is paid, he should not be a problem. Its just a matter of who is gonna be paying him.

Other than the contract thing, what else makes him a "me first" player?

LikeABoss
03-14-2005, 03:07 PM
I don't think it's gonna happen, but if it does it gets a :thumbup from me :cool:

Edit:

Oh, and I hope we don't have to give up our first round pick for Pace :(

gwallaia
03-14-2005, 03:13 PM
How old is Pace?

titan hater
03-14-2005, 03:15 PM
How old is Pace?


29...gonna be 30 real soon...

Jonathan
03-14-2005, 03:21 PM
Oh, and I hope we don't have to give up our first round pick for Pace :(

To get a top 5 Left Tackle you've got to give something up. There isn't a better player at #13 than Orlando Pace. If it takes a 1st and a 3rd, i'd do it in a heartbeat.

texansfan1974
03-14-2005, 03:22 PM
yea but 30 is young for the oline

Sco-tai
03-14-2005, 03:25 PM
I just fear this will cost entirely too much. An 8-year vetern LT knocking on 30 years old with a questionable attitude...who is insistant on a long-term deal (at least 4 years or more) would be a bad move on our part. Give WAND another year. Our sack issues were caused up the middle...not the Tackles!

And if they're saying give up Wand, Sharper & a first! That's NUTS! :shocked

Don't get me wrong...I'm a firm believer that the O-Line is VITAL. So why not Trade Sharper for a pick this year and get Baas, Brown or Spencer for our new Center. And let Brown, McKinney, Pitts & Weigert fight it out for the starting Guard spots (assuming the Rookie-C earns the starting nod).

That way we can use our 1st on the best available WR (if DJ is gone). Or perhaps even a stud CB to eventually replace Glenn.

texansfan1974
03-14-2005, 03:25 PM
give up the 13th. after the top 10 you r taking a chance anyway.

titan hater
03-14-2005, 03:26 PM
yea but 30 is young for the oline

u r correct, sir!!! can anyone remember Bob Young...Dude played till he was 43!!! Of course, part of that was in the USFL....But I digress...30 is young for an o-linemen...

Vinny
03-14-2005, 03:27 PM
New story from the Comical...hot off the press"We are in discussions with the Rams,'' Texans vice president of communications Tony Wyllie said. ``Orlando and his agent are visiting Houston, but we won't have an announcement until the appropriate time."

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/texans/3083990

titan hater
03-14-2005, 03:29 PM
New story from the Comical...hot off the press

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/texans/3083990


Again...Translation:
"We are working out a few minor issues".

Welcome to H-Town OP!!!! :thumbup

Porky
03-14-2005, 03:32 PM
This is a no-brainer. I would give them Sharper, Wand, and our #1. As important as what we give up in personell is his contract. Yes, he will command large dollars, but we just need to make sure we don't "give him whatever he wants". There is a balancing act with all of this, and I am sure that Casserly is on top of it. To me, there is not another player available via trade, FA, or the draft, that would impact the Texans more in 2005 than Pace. If the deal can be struck with the Rams, and he accepts a "reasonable" (fill in your own figure) contract, then this is the all time no-brainer of no-brainers. :thumbup

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 03:32 PM
Sweet. I'm stoked.

titan hater
03-14-2005, 03:33 PM
This is a no-brainer. I would give them Sharper, Wand, and our #1. As important as what we give up in personell is his contract. Yes, he will command large dollars, but we just need to make sure we don't "give him whatever he wants". There is a balancing act with all of this, and I am sure that Casserly is on top of it. To me, there is not another player available via trade, FA, or the draft, that would impact the Texans more in 2005 than Pace. If the deal can be struck with the Rams, and he accepts a "reasonable" (fill in your own figure) contract, then this is the all time no-brainer of no-brainers. :thumbup


Very well put!!!! :thumbup

texansfan1974
03-14-2005, 03:37 PM
were can i buy the jersey?

RiotCommander
03-14-2005, 03:38 PM
At home on lunch break watching ESPN *grin*. Just saw that Orlando Pace is meeting with the Texans. I don't want to get everyones hopes up, but this would be a vast improvement to our O-Line. :thumbup

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 03:40 PM
if we can get pace by sending Wand, Sharper and a 3rd rounder. that would be sweet.
we'd still have a pick in every round.

nunusguy
03-14-2005, 03:40 PM
Carlton Thompson/Chronicle commenting on this subject. My apologies if
someone has already posted a link to this story:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3083990

Runner
03-14-2005, 03:58 PM
How about this? Move Wand to right tackle and put Wade in the package for Pace. Wand is far cheaper and is certainly good enough for right tackle - he did well there his rookie year when he subbed for an injury. The experience of playing LT last year would serve Wand well on the right side. I think Wade was overpaid last year even before being slowed by injury.

Then when Pace is gone the Texans have groomed his replacemnt and Wand moves back to left tackle.

JustBonee
03-14-2005, 04:00 PM
Won't any deals have to wait for Casserly to get back to town? He's in Hawaii at meetings.

titan hater
03-14-2005, 04:03 PM
Won't any deals have to wait for Casserly to get back to town? He's in Hawaii at meetings.

I am quite certain that CC has a phone and a fax available....

twinkletwinkle
03-14-2005, 04:03 PM
This is so sweet. Maybe we can pick up a Mark Clayton in the 2nd round. Anyone know where we are in the 2nd?

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 04:05 PM
I wouldn't doubt if Wand or Wade went in the deal. The Rams are hurting (literally and figuratively) at OT if they trade Pace.

JustBonee
03-14-2005, 04:07 PM
I am quite certain that CC has a phone and a fax available....
Oh, Okay thanks for that .. :rofl:

Blake
03-14-2005, 04:12 PM
This is so sweet. Maybe we can pick up a Mark Clayton in the 2nd round. Anyone know where we are in the 2nd?

Round #2 47 Houston

Round #3 73 Houston from Dallas
Round #3 78 Houston

Blake
03-14-2005, 04:13 PM
Im guessing that we would draft D in the 2nd-3rd rounds.

titan hater
03-14-2005, 04:13 PM
Round #2 47 Houston

Round #3 73 Houston from Dallas
Round #3 78 Houston

I forgot...How did we get Dallas' #3?

Blake
03-14-2005, 04:15 PM
I forgot...How did we get Dallas' #3?

QB Drew Henson to the boys. We drafted him in the 6th round. Huge gamble, since we didnt even know if he was going to play football. But it worked out.

Negative Jesus
03-14-2005, 04:19 PM
I just saw on the ESPN Rams Forum ....... the Rams fans talking about us giving them Dunta and our 1st round pick ......... that is HILARIOUS . :woot

I really do hope we can pull something off to get Pace . It would definately change the whole outlook for this team next year . Maybe then we will get to see what David can do when he has some protection . :thumbup

titan hater
03-14-2005, 04:20 PM
QB Drew Henson to the boys. We drafted him in the 6th round. Huge gamble, since we didnt even know if he was going to play football. But it worked out.

CC is a very smart guy...As far as trading Wand or Wade goes...I think if we can get away with trading Wand rather than Wade we will do much better. Wade is a proven vet! I know last year was not that great for Wade but please remember that the line started the zone blocking. You must allow them time to adjust to it....Rome was not built in a day!!!

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 04:22 PM
Rome was not built in a day!!!

I thought he was born just like the rest of us. I didn't know he was a god.

Porky
03-14-2005, 04:25 PM
I just saw on the ESPN Rams Forum ....... the Rams fans talking about us giving them Dunta and our 1st round pick ......... that is HILARIOUS . :woot

I really do hope we can pull something off to get Pace . It would definately change the whole outlook for this team next year . Maybe then we will get to see what David can do when he has some protection . :thumbup

To me, there are only three untouchables on this team for this trade. Carr, AJ, and Dunta Robinson. Everyone else is on the table if I am playing GM. That would be one of the few trade scenerios that I say an easy no to. :thumbdown

titan hater
03-14-2005, 04:26 PM
I thought he was born just like the rest of us. I didn't know he was a god.

Come on now! I was not saying that Wade is a god...He is good, no John Hannah, but good. Wand is far less a tallent then Wade!!! Plus, last I checked, the LT is more important to DC than the RT. :hmmm:

SESupergenius
03-14-2005, 04:29 PM
All we need is someone to maintain Freeney. Wand is not that person, I think Freeney has the most sacks against him.

Runner
03-14-2005, 04:30 PM
I would not agree that Wand has far less talent than Wade. Wade regressed as the year went on last year. We do know that Wand costs far less than Wade, and that is important.

Runner
03-14-2005, 04:33 PM
All we need is someone to maintain Freeney. Wand is not that person, I think Freeney has the most sacks against him.

The Patriots contained Freeney by using a tackle and a guard on him. If our center could block a DT, we could do that too.

If every OT that Freeney beat is bad, then there are a bunch of bad OTs in the league. Freeney is just very, very good. Give him some credit.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 04:33 PM
Come on now! I was not saying that Wade is a god...He is good, no John Hannah, but good. Wand is far less a tallent then Wade!!! Plus, last I checked, the LT is more important to DC than the RT. :hmmm:

Ah you didn't get it. I was making fun of "Rome wasn't built in a day." I was talking about Jim Rome, not the city. It was a bad joke.

titan hater
03-14-2005, 04:35 PM
Ah you didn't get it. I was making fun of "Rome wasn't built in a day." I was talking about Jim Rome, not the city. It was a bad joke.

Stupid me!!! I'll come correct next time....Late...

Marcus
03-14-2005, 04:38 PM
Well, I just got through reading all the posts, after hearing about Pace being in town.

I'm sorry . . . the answer is no.

If he was 26 or 27 years old, maybe. But he's almost 30, just beginning the down side of his career, and he probably wants a 7 or 8 year deal . . in which he'll give us 3 years if . . . . if . . he stays healthy.

And to echo other people's thoughts, the problem on the OL wasn't LT, it was the interior.

GotMojo80
03-14-2005, 04:39 PM
does Pace have familiarity with the zone blocking scheme? i know hes better a better pass blocker than run.

twinkletwinkle
03-14-2005, 04:40 PM
Clone. Does anyone else think Rome is not that funny. I mean some of the shows are cool but for other broadcasters to copy his style?? He isn't that funny. And if I hear one more wannabe Rome reading local emails I am going to get Sirius on them.

texansfan1974
03-14-2005, 04:44 PM
we have already discuss this 30 is young for an o-linemen

texasguy346
03-14-2005, 04:45 PM
The Patriots contained Freeney by using a tackle and a guard on him. If our center could block a DT, we could do that too.

If every OT that Freeney beat is bad, then there are a bunch of bad OTs in the league. Freeney is just very, very good. Give him some credit.

The Patriots used several different ways to contain Freeney. At times they'd put two TEs over on the side that Freeney is on to make him have to go that much farther to get to Brady. They also used a WR and OT to bracket him. The WR was in the slot in the spread formation with 3 WRs on oneside (with Freeney) and one WR on the other. Then at the snap the LT came up to meet Freeney and the WR came up to engage Freeney as well. The LT kept Freeney from spinning to the inside and the WR kept him from going around the corner to get Brady. You've got to open up the playbook if you want to contain Freeney especially with him switching from RDE to LDE on any given play. Keep him and the Colts on their toes and you'll be able to beat them.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 04:48 PM
Well, I just got through reading all the posts, after hearing about Pace being in town.

I'm sorry . . . the answer is no.

If he was 26 or 27 years old, maybe. But he's almost 30, just beginning the down side of his career, and he probably wants a 7 or 8 year deal . . in which he'll give us 3 years if . . . . if . . he stays healthy.

And to echo other people's thoughts, the problem on the OL wasn't LT, it was the interior.
I tend to look at players in 4-5 year windows. Did you know that there are only 19 players on the Patriots roster that have been there for all of the the last 4 years of their 3 of 4 Super Bowl run? A lineman is in him prime from around 27 till about 33 for the most part, so we should get a good 4-5 years out of him. After that, who cares? I bet a good majority of the players we see here today are not on the team 6 years from now.

Marcus
03-14-2005, 04:48 PM
And if I hear one more wannabe Rome reading local emails I am going to get Sirius on them.

Why don't you just bite the bullet and get Sirius. I listen to NFL Siriius Radio, and it blows away anything else on. If you're an NFL junkie going through offseason withdrawal, you're nuts if you don't get it. :thumbup

scourge
03-14-2005, 04:51 PM
As much as I hate to see us give up a 1st rounder, Id say do it. You know David would be much more confident in the pocket knowing Pace was watching his blind side. The 1st, Sharper, Wand trade seems reasonable, but in no way would I ever want Dunta included on any trade, period. The idea of giving up Wade instead of Seth is intriguing, but I dont think that'll happen. If they dont want Wand, then we may throw in one of our 3rd rounders.

Paragon Blue
03-14-2005, 04:51 PM
If this does not happen every time Carr gets sacked we are going to be telling ourselves that we should have picked him up. DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup

Caw Daddy
03-14-2005, 04:52 PM
almost 30, too expensive, and we need our 1st rounder. if you guys havent noticed, if u win more, ur pick gets lower. these are the years we get the guys to build the team around. when we start winning games and get like the 20th pick, it wont nearly be as nice as a 13th

twinkletwinkle
03-14-2005, 04:54 PM
I will get Sirius, dont worry, just waiting on the new decks to come out. As for the guy who thinks Pace is too old, I am from Houston and being from Houston I remember guys like Bruce Matthews and Mike Munchek playing till they were 45. O liners can play for a while.

Marcus
03-14-2005, 04:55 PM
I tend to look at players in 4-5 year windows. Did you know that there are only 19 players on the Patriots roster that have been there for all of the the last 4 years of their 3 of 4 Super Bowl run? A lineman is in him prime from around 27 till about 33 for the most part, so we should get a good 4-5 years out of him. After that, who cares? I bet a good majority of the players we see here today are not on the team 6 years from now.

I just hope he's worth the price . . . because it's gonna be huge.

Texans Pride
03-14-2005, 04:57 PM
As much as I want that line fixed, I don't want it at this price. . . He's too old, to expensive, and is going to take our first round pick and a player, if not two. . . Why does it seem like we like to overpay players!

Team-Sport
03-14-2005, 05:02 PM
First of all, this is an excellent forum. Much better than the POS Rams Forum I'm a regular in. (http://forums.stltoday.com/viewforum.php?f=15) We have about ZERO Moderation.

As far as my fellow Rams Fan jermaine133's comments, a player has to have a contract to 'hold out', so - technically, Pace has never done that. Since you will have him long-term, that will not be an issue.

Why would the Rams do this deal? We have holes to fill, too. (I noticed you also have a need for an ORT.) It would be nice to keep OP, and fill all the holes, but it is difficult to always push the right button.

I'd gladly take your #1 pick in 2005 and Mr. Wand.
HI everyone i am a rams fan, but not a troll. I got word on our message board that there is a possible Trade in the making between your texans and my rams?? who are you all willing to give up for Pace, im just wondering because i can't seem to find any links to the info. AND BY THE WAY..BEWARE, OF WHAT YOU ALL ARE GETTING INTO, PACE HAS HELD US HOSTAGE FOR THE LAST 3 SEASONS...IF YOU DON'T THROW ANY MONEY ON THE TABLE HIS FAT ***** WILL HOLD OUT ON TRAINING CAMP!

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 05:03 PM
The one bad thing (well sort of) is that if this goes through is that the draft loses some value. I guess we would look at Pace as our 1st round pick. This will be the equivalent to getting to open 1 Christmas present on Thanksgiving and it happens to be your best gift. It is great in one sense, but it takes away from the lure of Christmas (the Draft).

TexansFan#80
03-14-2005, 05:04 PM
To me, there are only three untouchables on this team for this trade. Carr, AJ, and Dunta Robinson. Everyone else is on the table if I am playing GM. That would be one of the few trade scenerios that I say an easy no to. :thumbdown
And what about DD. Would you offer him for Pace? I wouldn't, for sure!!!

DominatorDavis
03-14-2005, 05:07 PM
Huge signing. I hope that it happens. What is it worth to protect Carr's blind side? Shoot fellas - if it comes to it - it's worth 2 first rounders.

Meisterman
03-14-2005, 05:08 PM
I'll reserve judgement until I see what the Texans have to give up to get him.

From what Charlie has said...he thinks there is depth in this draft but not alot of separation at the top. So if that is true, I see the Texans giving up their #13 pick (Sharper or a pick next year) for a pro bowl LT.

Maybe we can also throw in McKinney and a Texas steak with the deal :)

Dunta_23
03-14-2005, 05:12 PM
I say

Orlando Pace
Steven Jackson
for
Jamie Sharper
Seth Wand
Domanick Davis
3rd Round pick(s)

Nawzer
03-14-2005, 05:13 PM
Does anyone have Pace's numbers from this year and last? I know you can find it at nfl.com but i'm too lazy..

TexansFan#80
03-14-2005, 05:16 PM
It sounds like something Pace would do (hold out). For simplicity sake, say we sign Pace to a 5 year deal. Let's say Carr only gets sacked 20 times next year. Pace will think that he was a major cause for the line's success, so he will in effect want more money (contract renegotiation). He can hold out in that sense. It's not something I would put past the guy since people in STL are saying he is a "me first" player. I think he will demand too much and the Texans will not go through with it. I know the line needs MAJOR help, but at that cost, it can turn ugly in the next few years. Even if he gets injured, that's money locked up for nothing. I would much rather see DJ come to the team, but I doubt that will happen also. I am a David Carr fan, so I know Pace would add much needed help and probably give Carr another 2 years in his career.


It's just a matter of weighing the odds, and meeting with Pace to see what kind of guy he is like.

CC is a smart enough person not to bring in someone that will take the Texans off their course.

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 05:17 PM
Its all about what we give up for him. If we can package Sharper and Wand along with a 3rd or second rounder i'd be favorable to that, but i'm partial to keeping our first round pick there will be alot of talent available at 13.

Putting Pace into the fold and retaining our first round pick will allow us to possibly draft a TE or WR with our first rounder or if one of the top RBs drops, or one of the top LBs. but the point is we will have many many more options.

infantrycak
03-14-2005, 05:18 PM
Does anyone have Pace's numbers from this year and last? I know you can find it at nfl.com but i'm too lazy..

5, 4 and 2 sacks over the last three seasons.

For those contemplating trading Wade, give it up because it ain't happening. All of the remaining un-prorated signing bonus would be dead money on the cap if he was traded. Just don't think it is realistic that the Texans would have $8 mil of dead money.

Dionysus22
03-14-2005, 05:19 PM
I'm not sure if this is a great idea. I'm mean I would love to have Pace but not at that cost. We have to give up our #1 AND and player on our roster just to get him. I know he's the best left tackle in football but we really need to give Wand a chance to grow and concentrate on our defense. In case anyone has noticed, our linebacking core is depleting! We got nothing for Foreman(like we were gonna get much anyway) and Sharper is gonna be outta here any second. So now were gonna end up with two linebackers, one that played outside now moving inside and one inside but was a back up last year. Grant it, Polk was a pretty good back up but I still would like to see a young, super-athlete like DJ or Marrian. Like I said, I would love to have Pace but I'm not sure if it's the right time.

Blake
03-14-2005, 05:19 PM
I say

Orlando Pace
Steven Jackson
for
Jamie Sharper
Seth Wand
Domanick Davis
3rd Round pick(s)

I hope this is a joke. That would be like the Rams offering:

Faulk
Coakley
for
Dunta Robinson
Robaire Smith

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 05:20 PM
not Wade, Wand. 3rd round pick in 2003. played Left tackle for us, would fill in for Rams when Pace departs.

ramsman34
03-14-2005, 05:21 PM
I say

Orlando Pace
Steven Jackson
for
Jamie Sharper
Seth Wand
Domanick Davis
3rd Round pick(s)

No chance we give up Jackson.

How many speed rushing RDE's will you be facing next season? Do you play the Falcons?

Mr. Pace has serious troubles with both.

The consensus on our RAMS forum is your #1, Wand and Sharper. I don't think Casserly will do that deal however.

Coach LAG
__________________________

Go long and we'll fake it to you.

Dunta_23
03-14-2005, 05:23 PM
it was wishful thinking, no seriousness involved

D-ReK
03-14-2005, 05:24 PM
And what about DD. Would you offer him for Pace? I wouldn't, for sure!!!

Of course I would...If the Rams wanted a RB, which they don't, I'd be all over that...

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 05:24 PM
the consensus here is Wand, Sharper and a 3rd rounder. so we could probaly meet half way i wouldn't be too upset.

I think Pace will come cheaper than alot expect, although expensive he wont be looking at the huge signing bonus back when he had his previous agents (the Poston brothers) now he has an Agent that is more available to make a deal. Also he made those huge contract demands back when he was 27 and 28 years old he is 30 now and his contract will reflect that.

AlexVanderpool
03-14-2005, 05:25 PM
And what about DD. Would you offer him for Pace? I wouldn't, for sure!!!

In a heartbeat!!!!! if we could get pace for DD, and not give up a first.

AlexVanderpool
03-14-2005, 05:26 PM
the consensus here is Wand, Sharper and a 3rd rounder. so we could probaly meet half way i wouldn't be too upset.



That would be a steal for us, but doesnt the league require us to give up 2 1st round picks for a franchised player of pace's stature?

D-ReK
03-14-2005, 05:27 PM
No chance we give up Jackson.

How many speed rushing RDE's will you be facing next season? Do you play the Falcons?

Mr. Pace has serious troubles with both.

The consensus on our RAMS forum is your #1, Wand and Sharper. I don't think Casserly will do that deal however.

I'm not sure exactly how many we'll be facing, but we do go against Freeney twice a year...

As far as prospective trades, what about our 1st, Sharper, and a 3rd for Pace? I'd like to keep Wand for depth in case Pace or Wade go down with an injury...

Bayern
03-14-2005, 05:29 PM
Look I'd like to get him but I don't think I'm ready to give up Wand yet. Didn't he play Guard in college? Really our problem was inside on the left side and not the LT.
Could we get Pace and move Wand inside? Might be a bit of an experiment, but our OL would be HUUUUGE between Pace, Wand and Wade especially.

tiger06
03-14-2005, 05:29 PM
Wow, I get home from school to find this huge story :woot We should definitely jump at this opportunity to grab Pace. Though he is rather old and expensive, he is arguably the best LT in the NFL today and would add so much not only to our O-line, but to our offense. I'd be gladly willing to give up our 1st rounder plus any other picks or players to snag Pace.

TEXANS84
03-14-2005, 05:30 PM
On the Rams Message Boards:
BTW, some of these trade scenario's are just outright hilarious.
Pigskin Pete:
I say the Rams get the #13 pick overall, and (OT) Seth Wand, who the Rams supposedly wanted to draft a couple years ago.

bigtiger:
What do you guys think of maybe a 1st round pick and then getting Jason Babin?? We were looking at him pretty good last year in the draft and his naturaul position is at LE we culd get him and put him back in the trenches and have 2 great pass rushers assuming Little gets off in court?

Psycho-X:
I like the sound of Dunta Robinson but I doubt the Rams are worrying about a CB in a trade when there are so many that they will be able to get in the draft. Plus I doubt the Texans would give up such a young player like that.

In my opinion, what the Rams want is either Seth Payne or Jamie Sharper. Sharper is a no brainer because the Texans have been trying to trade him for weeks now. Sharper is a MLB in Houston but I''m pretty sure he played outside at Baltimroe didn''t he? If not he has the ability since he is 6''3'' and 240 lbs which is perfect size for the outside and he could play inside on passing downs.

Imagine Sharper, Claiborne, and Coakley at LB.... sweet.

The other one I thought about was Seth Payne. the Rams have openly said that they want a run stuffing nose tackle in either a trade or free agency... thus the Zgonina rumors. This would fix them having to try and get Zgonina. And it would give a nice rotation at DT with him, Kennedy, and Pickett.

One of these players and their first rounder would make me happy.

Rosusu
03-14-2005, 05:30 PM
It would be a great deal if it gets done.

I have a question though...

Why do we have to trade for him if he is just under a one year deal? Wont he be a free agent if the Rams dont resign him? I am just uncertain how that works out with the franchise tag going into the next season. Thanks to anyone who can clear that up. I dont want to see our 1st round pick going but if its to get someone like Pace it is worth it.

nunusguy
03-14-2005, 05:31 PM
If we can package Sharper and Wand along with a 3rd or second rounder i'd be favorable to that, but i'm partial to keeping our first round pick there will be alot of talent available at 13.

The old bromide "can't have your cake and eat it to" - I thought of that when
you suggested no deal if we have to part with our top pick. I would say thats
what it takes for us to open the bidding on this deal - I just hope they don't
part with anymore picks.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 05:31 PM
That would be a steal for us, but doesnt the league require us to give up 2 1st round picks for a franchised player of pace's stature?

Only if we sign him without a trade. If we set up a trade with the Rams, it can be for just about anything. It could be 7 1st round picks or whatever.

I have wondered though. How far in advance can you trade picks? Could you trade or 2015 1st round pick for something? Not that it is worth much in current value.

texansfan1974
03-14-2005, 05:33 PM
if we payed greenwood all that money then why wouldnt we pay big bucks for PACE? :hmmm:

TEXANS84
03-14-2005, 05:35 PM
if we payed greenwood all that money then why wouldnt we pay big bucks for PACE? :hmmm:

The salary cap wouldn't allow us to pay all that money. If you like Andre Johnson/Dunta Robinson/David Carr then you would be a little concerned about how much Pace will recieve.

Blake
03-14-2005, 05:35 PM
I have wondered though. How far in advance can you trade picks? Could you trade or 2015 1st round pick for something? Not that it is worth much in current value.

Thats it! We can just give them 8 first round picks, from 2480-2488! We will be dead, and the planet will have imploded by then.

jk

Bayern
03-14-2005, 05:41 PM
I hate giving up first day picks too, especially since we draft considerably well. I mean when you think about the successes versus the failures so far we've had some good luck.
That being said, outside of Carr/Andre/Robinson/Babin I could be interested by any offer they'd have. Oh and please don't give up Peek. :whistle:

Team-Sport
03-14-2005, 05:41 PM
Carr - 49
Bulger - 50

(Kudos to SynergyDMR at Rams Talk - http://forums.stltoday.com/viewforum.php?f=15)


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to defend the Rams O-Line(they were horrible IMHO) however, The Rams had 580 pass attempts vs The Texans 471. 109 more chances to get sacked or

Rams 11.6 attempts per sack

Texans 9.6 attempts per sack

ramsman34
03-14-2005, 05:47 PM
I think Pace will come cheaper than alot expect, although expensive he wont be looking at the huge signing bonus back when he had his previous agents (the Poston brothers) now he has an Agent that is more available to make a deal. Also he made those huge contract demands back when he was 27 and 28 years old he is 30 now and his contract will reflect that.

If he didn't have high contract demands we're not even discussing this. It's his contract demands which the RAMS can't/won't afford that are driving this trade talk. Ig he would sign a long term deal in line with a 30 yr old LT, albeit a por bowler, we would sign him. Now the RAMS may be tired of him this ongoing saga and let him go for less than market value, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Your #1 and a starter and a later round pick might get the deal done or 2 starters and your #1.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-14-2005, 05:50 PM
give them a 1st and 4th round pick

SESupergenius
03-14-2005, 05:55 PM
Yes but wasn't that all a part his creepy agent Poston? Now that he fired Potson I think he's looking for something a little more solid in a contract, not a huge super pay day like they were asking. He's grown tired of the Rams and has pretty much worn out his welcome. Besides, it looks like the Rams are on the downside, while the Texans are on the up.

royce1054
03-14-2005, 05:55 PM
I think Carr will sleep alot more soundly knowing that his backside is protected. The price is steep but hey thats the tuffest position in football.. We need someone to go against the dwight freeney's of the world. Their is no clear cut 1st rounder this year. I say bring him in. Here is what i have been hear

1st this year
Sharper which i doubt that signed to LB's already
1st next year
2nd next year

Team-Sport
03-14-2005, 06:01 PM
Yes but wasn't that all a part his creepy agent Poston? Now that he fired Potson I think he's looking for something a little more solid in a contract, not a huge super pay day like they were asking. He's grown tired of the Rams and has pretty much worn out his welcome. Besides, it looks like the Rams are on the downside, while the Texans are on the up.The Rams would have been money ahead to let him write in his own numbers two years ago - the first time we franchised him. Now, with the huge deals Walter Jones and others have gotten, his price tag has gone up - CONSIDERABLY. He will be a serious Cap Eater. If you believe your Left OT should be the top earner on your team, then he is your man.

As far as the Rams being on the downside, I humbly disagree (naturally).

TEXANS84
03-14-2005, 06:03 PM
I apologize if this has already been posted, but this looks fresh.

By CARLTON THOMPSON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

The Texans made their boldest gesture of the offseason today, entertaining Pro Bowl left tackle Orlando Pace as part of their efforts to work out a trade to acquire him from the St. Louis Rams.

In addition, Jay Foreman was granted his release - not to mention his wish - during a meeting with Texans coach Dom Capers early Monday morning. Strong safety Eric Brown also was cut during the course of a busy day at Reliant Park.

``We are in discussions with the Rams,'' Texans vice president of communications Tony Wyllie said. ``Orlando and his agent are visiting Houston, but we won't have an announcement until the appropriate time.``

Pace, 29, is designated as the Rams' franchise player for the third consecutive year, but the two sides have been unable to work out a long-term agreement, which opened the possibility for a trade.

If the Rams can't strike a long-term agreement with Pace by Wednesday, they lose the right to place the franchise tag on a player next season. At the very least, the Texans will have to part with a first-round pick and probably a player currently on their roster to acquire Pace.

The Texans have been trying to solidify the left tackle position since their inception. They acquired five-time Pro Bowler Tony Boselli in the expansion draft, but he couldn't recover from multiple shoulder operations and never played a down for the team before retiring before the 2003 season.

Chester Pitts started every game at left tackle in 2002 and 2003, but was moved to left guard last season to make room in the starting lineup at left tackle for Seth Wand, a raw talent with some upside. The Texans allowed 49 sacks last season, fewer than just six teams in the league.

Foreman and fellow inside linebacker Jamie Sharper asked to be released last week, approximately a week after the team gave both players permission to seek a trade. Sharper still is in limbo and could remain that way until after next month's draft, but Foreman is free to negotiate with any team in the league.

``I respect the fact they didn't string me along,'' Foreman said. ``Whether this works out for them or for me, only time will tell. I know what I can do on the field. I know the return on their investment is way better than the return they've gotten on some of their other investments.`` The Texans signed Foreman to a five-year, $12 million contract after the 2002 season. Foreman will count $1.32 million against the 2005 salary cap, but considering he was scheduled for a $2.21 million cap hit, Monday's move will save the Texans $890,000.

``When you know how good a player you are, and your teammates know how good a player you are, and then all of sudden it doesn't mean anything, that hurts,'' Foreman said. ``But it's a business, and sometimes this is how things go in the NFL. I'm not going to let it get to me. I know I'm a good player, so it should all work out.``

Foreman finished first or second in tackles each of his three seasons with the Texans, who acquired him from Buffalo in exchange for return specialist Charlie Rogers in 2002. Despite missing the final five games of last season because of an ankle injury, Foreman trailed only Sharper in tackles.

``I'm on the downside of my rehab now,'' Foreman said. ``I'm generally a quick healer. I'm going to start running next week. Now that (the release) is official, we'll see which teams are really interested. I just want to get into the right situation. My career is not over.``

ramsman34
03-14-2005, 06:03 PM
Besides, it looks like the Rams are on the downside, while the Texans are on the up.

Not to be a punk, and not that I totally disagree BUT we did make the playoffs last year (I know, at 8-8 not much to brag about).

If our D gets fixed we think we'll be right back in the thick of it come December next year.

I do think with the right moves this off season you will be in the playoffs. Manning and the Colts better get it done soon 'cause I see the Texans breathing down their neck soon, if not next season.

dirty steve
03-14-2005, 06:08 PM
doubt the rams would want LB's with claiborne and coakley signed...

ccdude730
03-14-2005, 06:09 PM
i guess im the minority here that wants to give wand another year before we start throwing cash and high draft picks away for a franchise LT. i still believe the weakness of the line was the middle (stevie boy anyone?).

pace is obviously an upgrade, but if he were a free agent - this would be a different story. im not ready to trade players and day 1 picks for him.

go on, lemme hear it......

infantrycak
03-14-2005, 06:11 PM
I think Carr will sleep alot more soundly knowing that his backside is protected. The price is steep but hey thats the tuffest position in football.. We need someone to go against the dwight freeney's of the world. Their is no clear cut 1st rounder this year. I say bring him in. Here is what i have been hear

1st this year
Sharper which i doubt that signed to LB's already
1st next year
2nd next year

That would be a miserably bad job of negotiating by the Texans since they can pay two 1sts and get Pace without the Rams' consent.

TEXANS84
03-14-2005, 06:11 PM
Here is the interesting part of that article:

"We are in discussions with the Rams,'' Texans vice president of communications Tony Wyllie said to the Houston Chronicle. "Orlando and his agent are visiting Houston, but we won't have an announcement until the appropriate time."

Makes me wonder if this is already a done deal....pending a physical.

dirty steve
03-14-2005, 06:13 PM
sounds like all that it needs is i's dotted and t's crossed.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 06:13 PM
You have to look at the total impact his signing would have on the salary cap.

Lets say he costs us $10 million a year and we trade our 1st round selection and whatever else we trade. You have to discount the amount that #13 selection would count against the cap as well as the amount of whatever else we trade.

I couldn't find contract info on Lee Evans (WR for the Bills who went #13 last year) but Jonathan Vilma signed a 5-year $10 million deal. So we need to deduct about $2 million from the impact it has on the cap. That leaves the net cap hit at roughly $8 million a year (assuming it is about $10 million a year average).

Would you pay $8 million a year for a perenial Pro Bowl tackle? Keep in mind we paid a non-Pro Bowl LB (Sharper) about $6 million a year to play for us the past two years.

Team-Sport
03-14-2005, 06:16 PM
Pace did not have his best year in 2004. Has his play declined? I'm not sure, but he got punked by Atlanta's RDE twice last year, FWIW.

infantrycak
03-14-2005, 06:18 PM
Walter Jones signed a 7 year $50 mil contract so average hit of a little more than $7 mil per year. Pace's contract should be in the same ball park.

Jagged
03-14-2005, 06:19 PM
I agree this might already be a done deal. The thing that makes me think they are pending a physical is Charlie Cass. Isn't even in town while he is visiting, if they were trying to get a deal done for a trade, don't you think the man who pulls the trades would be there? Just curious.

Anyway, My guess is Sharper, and our First this year "should" get the deal done. The offense starts with the O-Line, if they have a great day, "WE" have a great day. Signing him would be our Boselli "craving" that we never got to fix. Pull the trigger on this guy, sign him long term and watch our offensive production pick-up.

Xman
03-14-2005, 06:20 PM
LOT is the most critical position on the OL. I would give up #13 and a couple of players (listed below) - if we can work out a good contract. But, I think we are better off trying to hold onto our draf tpicks and giving up some players that would have more value to the Rams than they have had for us.

Our defense has a few nice players (by "nice" - I mean talented players - but, we signed them as free agents, so they are not cheap - and could be replaced) (RSmith, Wong, Payne, Walker) and one that is not wanted (Sharper - who I still like). (Payne and Sharper have brought a lot of interest on their fan boards)

For whatever reason - the chemistry is not right with these guys. If it was, then our defense would have produced much better. So, shake it up. Giving up a few of these guys will not hurt (we can draft and/or sign replacements - we are planning on doing that with them already here anyway).

Anyway, my point is, I would rather give up players out of this talented, but overpaid and underproducing group, than draft picks - if we have a choice.

Maybe; Sharper, Payne, and a #2
Or, Sharper, Walker and Wong
Basically any combo of our DL/LBs is not that harmful to the team (excluding Babin) - because we can draft or sign players at close to the same cost to replace them - and even if they are less talented, they may fit the system better meaning better results.

I would even go so far as: Sharper, Walker, Payne, RSmith, Wand for Pace and their #1.

RT2
03-14-2005, 06:23 PM
I agree this might already be a done deal. The thing that makes me think they are pending a physical is Charlie Cass. Isn't even in town while he is visiting, if they were trying to get a deal done for a trade, don't you think the man who pulls the trades would be there? Just curious.

Anyway, My guess is Sharper, and our First this year "should" get the deal done. The offense starts with the O-Line, if they have a great day, "WE" have a great day. Signing him would be our Boselli "craving" that we never got to fix. Pull the trigger on this guy, sign him long term and watch our offensive production pick-up.

CC has a cell phone and I'm sure it works in Hawaii. Mine did when I was over there. RT2

dalemurphy
03-14-2005, 06:25 PM
i guess im the minority here that wants to give wand another year before we start throwing cash and high draft picks away for a franchise LT. i still believe the weakness of the line was the middle (stevie boy anyone?).

pace is obviously an upgrade, but if he were a free agent - this would be a different story. im not ready to trade players and day 1 picks for him.

go on, lemme hear it......


I agree.. If this gets done, I'm just hopeful that your assessment and mine are both wrong.

Texans Pride
03-14-2005, 06:25 PM
Ok, I am hearing a few things about Pace the are raising my eyebrows:

1. Big baby, cries ALOT
2. Tries to get out of training camp
3. Is a me player, not a team player

These are some pretty troubling things to hear. . . Anyone else hear these things and think they have merit, or are these just the grunts of Rams fans that have had enough?

Fiddy
03-14-2005, 06:28 PM
3. Is a me player, not a team playerHonest question, can someone please explain to me how a Left Tackle cannot be a team player??? It's not like he can demand the ball or more playing time.

Xman
03-14-2005, 06:33 PM
Why is Pace a big selfish baby?
Because he wanted to get paid what he was worth and get a long term contract?????????
Anyone out there not trying to get paid what they are worth is crazy - especially when the team can trade the player to some frozen wasteland (Cleveland comes to mind).

Sounds to me like he has a little sense. If the team had taken care of him, then he would never have been called selfish or had to take the steps he did.
If Casserly is able to work out a contract, it means one of two things; either STL lowballed or Pace has come down to a reasonable number (I have too much faith in Casserly to believe he will overpay). Either way, the "selfish" tag should not carry over to Houston.

TEXANS84
03-14-2005, 06:36 PM
Ok, I am hearing a few things about Pace the are raising my eyebrows:

1. Big baby, cries ALOT
2. Tries to get out of training camp
3. Is a me player, not a team player

These are some pretty troubling things to hear. . . Anyone else hear these things and think they have merit, or are these just the grunts of Rams fans that have had enough?

I also hear that he's keeping the Dunkin' Donuts chain alive in St. Louis.

Marcus
03-14-2005, 06:38 PM
i guess im the minority here that wants to give wand another year before we start throwing cash and high draft picks away for a franchise LT. i still believe the weakness of the line was the middle (stevie boy anyone?).

pace is obviously an upgrade, but if he were a free agent - this would be a different story. im not ready to trade players and day 1 picks for him.

go on, lemme hear it......

You may indeed be in the minority, but you are not alone. I feel the same way you do. If they weren't serious about developing Wand for left tackle, then why didn't just leave Pitts there.

I'm not going to like the terms of his contract, and I'm not going to like who we are going to have to give up.

Now. . . if they made McKinney part of the trade, and move Pace to center . . . :thumbup

GotMojo80
03-14-2005, 06:38 PM
I also hear that he's keeping the Dunkin' Donuts chain alive in St. Louis.
THAT *******!

Talon_stl
03-14-2005, 06:38 PM
We in St. Louis are so sick of Pace and his sheninigans you can have him. We will definatly want your first round pick and possibly third plus another Olineman. But I don't think Sharper would be involved. We just signed Chris Claiborne to play the middle. Personally I think Sharper hasn't played as good since he was next to Ray Lewis anyway. Sure he lead the league in tackles a few seasons ago but who else on your team was tackling? Pace isn't the player he used to be. Most likely because his lazy *** skips camp every season and it takes him 2-3 games to get back into regular playing style. Our line last year was just patched up but he looked just as bad as the other linemen. He looked like a rookie most of the year and I have no clue how he made the Pro Bowl. Name recoginition is my guess. So take Pace, maybe he will make your line better but beware he has been looking his age.

Keldar
03-14-2005, 06:45 PM
Now. . . if they made McKinney part of the trade, and move Pace to center . . . :thumbup

I do believe you might be on to something here. I second the motion. Or we could teach Pitts to hike the ball and move Wand to LG. :party:

uhcougar08
03-14-2005, 06:45 PM
Just reading about his abilities from Football Scouts Inc. and it says he not only is rated as the 9th best player in the NFL (score of 96 out of 100), but the 2nd best OT in the league!

Just imagine if we lost a couple of players on defense, but the offense got going and scored more points than the defense gives up, doesn't that mean a win?

Give Carr this and see what happens, I think we would like the results, give em' the house for the #9 best player in the League!

By the way, Shaper is rated the best on our team and he is rated a 75 out of 100. :hmmm:

MojoX
03-14-2005, 06:51 PM
We in St. Louis are so sick of Pace and his sheninigans you can have him. We will definatly want your first round pick and possibly third plus another Olineman. But I don't think Sharper would be involved. We just signed Chris Claiborne to play the middle. Personally I think Sharper hasn't played as good since he was next to Ray Lewis anyway. Sure he lead the league in tackles a few seasons ago but who else on your team was tackling? Pace isn't the player he used to be. Most likely because his lazy *** skips camp every season and it takes him 2-3 games to get back into regular playing style. Our line last year was just patched up but he looked just as bad as the other linemen. He looked like a rookie most of the year and I have no clue how he made the Pro Bowl. Name recoginition is my guess. So take Pace, maybe he will make your line better but beware he has been looking his age.
As has been asked earlier in this thread: What shenanigans can you point out that didn't involve bitter contract negotiations between Pace/Postons and the Rams? Skipping camp when you are franchised is not a big deal. In fact, it is a smart way of dealing with the possibility of injury and the only leverage a franchised player has. Heck, if the Rams just would've gotten off the money in the first place, they could have had Pace for less than what they ahve paid him the last 3 seasons and still have him for a couple more seasons.

Now, I am concerned that at 30, without the benefit of training camp for the last 3 seasons, Pace may be losing some edge. I know the current draft lacks blue chippers and all, but I'd hate to give up that 13. Then again, Pace makes Carr, Johnson, Gaffney, Davis and Hollings better. On top of that, if he improves our run game, he helps the D big time.

Xman
03-14-2005, 06:59 PM
I think Pace turns 30 in November.

OL play a lot longer than most.

So, we shuld get a good 6 years out of him. Then maybe another three decent years (which would still be better than most OTs out there):

Roaf is 35 and still a pro bowler - I think Pace will hold up even better than Roaf.

Since we won't give him a contract much longer than 5 years, it won't matter how old he is.
My prediction - Pace will still be playing when DDavis is done.

shinerbock_girl
03-14-2005, 07:06 PM
Man i hope we get this guy, but i have to admit, I DON'T WANT TO LET GO OF SHARPER!!!!!!.....It seems though he wants out so i wish the best for him.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 07:08 PM
One of my favorite players of all time, Hall of Fame OT Jackie Slater of the Rams, played LT for 20 years (1976-1995). It can happen.

TEXANS84
03-14-2005, 07:09 PM
I think Pace turns 30 in November.

So, we shuld get a good 6 years out of him.


lol, we'd be lucky to get 3...maybe 4.

TEXANS84
03-14-2005, 07:10 PM
If this deal does go down, I'm guessing we will be seeing a former Texan play against us in Reliant next year when the Rams visit Houston.

dirty steve
03-14-2005, 07:11 PM
once again, i don't think sharper will be part of any deal. the rams have already signed 2 LB's this offseason. i believe thier goal would be to get an LT and picks.

Dionysus22
03-14-2005, 07:14 PM
the consensus here is Wand, Sharper and a 3rd rounder. so we could probaly meet half way i wouldn't be too upset.

I think Pace will come cheaper than alot expect, although expensive he wont be looking at the huge signing bonus back when he had his previous agents (the Poston brothers) now he has an Agent that is more available to make a deal. Also he made those huge contract demands back when he was 27 and 28 years old he is 30 now and his contract will reflect that.
Now I can live with that. I'm jus not down for giving up two people AND our #1. We need our #1. Remember, offense scores points but defense gets you to the bowl.

AndreJ
03-14-2005, 07:16 PM
I'd send them Sharper, Wand and our first pick....but that may not be enough. Give Foreman a broom and perhaps he could clean up their locker rooms too. He has some sort of value. :heh:

It would depend... what the avg age for an O-Lineman? Do they play for a long time...my initial guess would be yeh, but just checking.

Talon_stl
03-14-2005, 07:16 PM
Last Year 25 million signing bonus
Two Years Ago I think it was like 7 year 145 million contract

Your managment can get off the money and pay this.

Like I said enjoy Pace I don't care take him.

dirty steve
03-14-2005, 07:19 PM
i think the outrageous demands were more poston that pace.

TEXANS84
03-14-2005, 07:20 PM
610 is saying that this year's #13, Sharper, and next year's 2nd would be fair.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 07:20 PM
From what I have gathered, we can work out a deal that is right about the same as Walter Jones got in Seattle. The only real sticking point in all this is how we compensate the Rams. I think we will know by tomorrow.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 07:21 PM
610 is saying that this year's #13, Sharper, and next year's 2nd would be fair.No way I do this if I was the Rams. That's not a fair deal in my book.

AndreJ
03-14-2005, 07:22 PM
610 is saying that this year's #13, Sharper, and next year's 2nd would be fair.

I know that our O-Line could really use some help, but i dont like the idea of giving away our 13th pick unless we were to pick one up from someone else.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 07:23 PM
610 is saying that this year's #13, Sharper, and next year's 2nd would be fair.

I'd rather give up one of our 3rd's this year. A 2nd next year is worth a 3rd this year. Next year's draft is deeper.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 07:23 PM
I read that wrong 84. I didn't see the 13th pick. That would be much more even.

Dionysus22
03-14-2005, 07:23 PM
Then again, Pace makes Carr, Johnson, Gaffney, Davis and Hollings better. On top of that, if he improves our run game, he helps the D big time.
We still can't forget, one person doesn't make a line. Grant it, he's helps tremendously on the left side, but we still have a half-wit making the line calls. By Half-wit I mean Steve McWhinney *cough* sorry, McKinney. If we go after Pace, are we gonna have enough in cap room to get the other pieces to this puzzle?

TEXANS84
03-14-2005, 07:25 PM
I read that wrong 84. I didn't see the 13th pick. That would be much more even.

LOL, I was gonna say...you would be one tough GM then.

Talon_stl
03-14-2005, 07:27 PM
I just heard on my local news that our Front Office said we are not interested in a trade and if the Texans want him it will take 2 first round picks but thats probably just a ploy to get more than he's worth.

Dionysus22
03-14-2005, 07:28 PM
I still say NO WAY to giving them our #1. They wouldn't take Sharper. They might take Wand and some picks but I would definately not give them our #1.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 07:29 PM
I still say NO WAY to giving them our #1. They wouldn't take Sharper. They might take Wand and some picks but I would definately not give them our #1.

Shoot it will take our #1 AND more to get him. It is unreasonable to think anything else.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 07:30 PM
I just heard on my local news that our Front Office said we are not interested in a trade and if the Texans want him it will take 2 first round picks but thats probably just a ploy to get more than he's worth.It may be worth two 1's if that was all I had to give up as the Texans GM. This year will not have any elite linemen and if we secure Pace we are probably playoff contenders and will likely have a pick in the 20's next season. Securing one of the top 2 players in the NFL at LT is likely worth it to me.

BornOrange
03-14-2005, 07:30 PM
I am against acquiring Pace.

My concern is that he is finally going to get his big payday and then take it easy. All these years he's been franchised he has only received his salary and not one of the big signing bonuses that is the only guaranteed part of a long term contract. Once he gets that big bonus, and he has been demanding $15-20 million as a signing bonus, he can put that in the bank and just sit on his ample (that means really big) behind and keep collecting paychecks because he would be too much of a cap hit for the Texans to cut.

Or maybe he gets injured like Boselli did. He is at the same age Boselli was when he got injured, and he has nowhere near the work ethic or integrity that Boselli did in trying to come back. If Pace gets injured the Texans will be screwed much more than they ever were with Boselli because Pace will be a bigger cap hit, the Texans have less cap space now, and now is when the Texans are trying to make a playoff move so therefore dead cap space is more meaningful. There are still quite a few "fans" who get upset at the mention of Boselli's name. There is a much bigger potential downside in acquiring Orlando Pace.

Is Pace going to work hard?
Is he going to be a cancer?

If Pace decides to rededicate himself and stays healthy, the Texans will be getting a Pro Bowl caliber player and a big piece of the playoff puzzle.

However, if Pace does like a lot of players do and coasts after finally getting his big payday or gets injured, this deal can end up being a huge disaster for the Texans.

Bigger than his ego or his posterior.

dirty steve
03-14-2005, 07:35 PM
you guys are bashing mckinney like he was the sole reason the line did not live up to expectations in 2004.

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 07:35 PM
honestly i think in the end Pace is using us as a ploy against the rams to jack up his price. he will probably renegotiate a long term deal right at the deadline and we helped get him a couple extra million. not all bad for us because the more big names that visit us the more we are on the map, and it pushes the rams cap number a little higher too.

shinerbock_girl
03-14-2005, 07:37 PM
Just caught the tailend of the talks between Pace and the Texans on the NFL network ....It looks like the contract will go through for Pace. They will offically announce on wednesday but they said it looks like Pace will be a Texan because everything looks good.......YEEEE HAWWWW.

AndreJ
03-14-2005, 07:39 PM
It may be worth two 1's if that was all I had to give up as the Texans GM. This year will not have any elite linemen and if we secure Pace we are probably playoff contenders and will likely have a pick in the 20's next season. Securing one of the top 2 players in the NFL at LT is likely worth it to me.

MY concern is how long will he be a top 2 LT in the NFL. I could see if he was in his mid 20's, but we might as well just round that 29 off to a thirty and i dont want him to be the G. Walker of the offense.

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 07:40 PM
did they say what the compensation would be for the rams?

Sharper, Wand, 1st this year 2nd this year for pace and 2nd this year would be fair.

are we giving them 2 firsts?

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 07:41 PM
its true, Offensive Lineman can play deep into their 30's without much effort. Pace should be a force for another 4 years, and after that will have 2 years where just his name will protect Carr. Thats worth it.

AndreJ
03-14-2005, 07:42 PM
its true, Offensive Lineman can play deep into their 30's without much effort. Pace should be a force for another 4 years, and after that will have 2 years where just his name will protect Carr. Thats worth it.

Ok, if we can expect another good four years atleast from him then i dont have a problem with that trade, but i would still love to have that #13 pick, just to give me something to look forward to ond raft day LoL.

ccdude730
03-14-2005, 07:43 PM
you guys are bashing mckinney like he was the sole reason the line did not live up to expectations in 2004.

id say he was about more than half of our problems. im still a firm believer C is more of a priority than LT where wand should improve if given the opportunity

shinerbock_girl
03-14-2005, 07:44 PM
did they say what the compensation would be for the rams?

Sharper, Wand, 1st this year 2nd this year for pace and 2nd this year would be fair.

are we giving them 2 firsts?

From what i heard, Texans will give up a #1 and 3 pick. But they said the deal was good as done.

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 07:45 PM
i agree, but this draft although not top heavy has alot of interesting mid to late round talent. with the offensive line taken care of it gives us alot more freedom in the draft.

There is always a chance the Rams send us a mid round pick back to us as well. At this point all we know is that Pace is serious about protecting Carr.

Another upside is he is used to playing on Turf so our better field will probably extend his career.

Blake
03-14-2005, 07:45 PM
There is no way, IMO, that we are going to get Pace, and our #13. One or the other. Not both. I would take Pace.

Its basically like we are drafting a 30 year old Pace, with the #13 pick, and traded a starter to get higher.

shinerbock_girl
03-14-2005, 07:48 PM
There is no way, IMO, that we are going to get Pace, and our #13. One or the other. Not both. I would take Pace.

Its basically like we are drafting a 30 year old Pace, with the #13 pick, and traded a starter to get higher.

Well on NFL network they said the deal was as good as done and Rams and Texans were agreeing on the terms....

texansfan88
03-14-2005, 07:48 PM
Just caught the tailend of the talks between Pace and the Texans on the NFL network ....It looks like the contract will go through for Pace. They will offically announce on wednesday but they said it looks like Pace will be a Texan because everything looks good.......YEEEE HAWWWW.
can anyone else confirm this?

dirty steve
03-14-2005, 07:50 PM
were do you get the half from? so wand as a first year LT was not a problem? that wiegert and wade were injured was not a problem? i think that mckinney is popular whipping boy on the board.

does anybody have a stat for number of sacks given up by each texans OL in 2004?

ccdude730
03-14-2005, 07:51 PM
with the offensive line taken care of it gives us alot more freedom in the draft.
it is still not taken care of if pace were to be added to the roster.

and nobody knows if he is "serious" about protecting carr but himself.

Blake
03-14-2005, 07:51 PM
Well on NFL network they said the deal was as good as done and Rams and Texans were agreeing on the terms....

I just meant that we will have to give up our 1st round pick to get him, thats all.

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 07:53 PM
Hmmm ok a 1st and a 3rd. I can live with it. Carr needed protection NOW and Alex Barron wasnt going to provide it.

We had an extra 3rd from Drew Henson trade, so basically 2 years ago drafting drew henson in addition to a 1st round pick (which we probably would have used on a lesser lineman) is what it took to get Pace, a former 1st overall pick. It would give us 3 offensive players taken in the top 3.

Sharper is still on the roster. Does he redo his contract to stay here now that he has seen us make a huge move in a sorely needed area or is he still trade bait? what will we get for him a second rounder maybe?

Now what does this leave for us to do with our first draft pick which at this point is in the 2nd round. I'd look at one of the 2 TE's left in Kevin Everrett from Miami and Alex Smith from Stanford. Also maybe that 2nd WR since we havn't made a move at that slot. We could give ourselves a dominant offensive line with David Baas. Roscoe Parrish from Miami would give us great pair of Miami wideouts.

Point is, as martha stewart would say, Its a good thing.

shinerbock_girl
03-14-2005, 07:55 PM
can anyone else confirm this?

I swear i wouldn't lie about a thing like this...Anyone else have NFL network to confirm this???? I believe the NFL network so i feel confident Pace will be a Texan but it won't offically be announced till Wednesday. Unless the Rams really do something ungodly to change this, i believe the NFL net.

shinerbock_girl
03-14-2005, 07:57 PM
I just meant that we will have to give up our 1st round pick to get him, thats all.
They said Texans said 1st and 3rd...I guess we'll see but they must want him awfully bad.

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 07:58 PM
the 3rd is the drew henson bonus pick

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 07:59 PM
and if we keep Wand he will be a great backup for Wade and Pace and can take over for Wade in 3 years or so.

Blake
03-14-2005, 07:59 PM
They said Texans said 1st and 3rd...I guess we'll see but they must want him awfully bad.

I can live with that. I knew the #1 was gone, but I wasnt sure if they wanted starters, or picks.

GotMojo80
03-14-2005, 08:00 PM
someone mentioned Wand played gaurd in college? perhaps he can move back to G

AlexVanderpool
03-14-2005, 08:03 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=NFL&id=3951

NFL Network reports the Texans and Orlando Pace all but agreed to terms on a contract. If the Texans and Rams can agree on compensation, he'll be in Houston by Wednesday.
It looks like it will happen. Houston is willing to give up the #13 overall pick in the draft and has two third-rounders possibly available. The Rams want two first rounders, but are expected to settle for less. Terrible news for Marc Bulger; great news for David Carr.

aj.
03-14-2005, 08:05 PM
If we can get Pace for a 1st and a 3rd, I do that in a NY minute if there are no other players involved. We have the extra 3rd this year so we would still have our 2nd, 3rd, etc. A long term deal will also need to be worked out so I hope they don't break the bank on the guy. There's a lot of risk with this. He's about 2/3 of the way through his career and has a lot of miles on him. Hopefully he can stay healthy for the last 1/3 and play at the level he's been playing - and adjust to the Texans wonderful o-line scheme. I've never been big on these mega deals but I remember Leon Gray back in the day....

I'll believe this all when I see it. The NFL Network also said the Texans signed Ron Dayne last week. I guess they thought Payne sounded like Dayne or something.

Think about one thing why did he come for a visit? Why would he come down here just for fun? Just to be polite? I dont think so, He visited the Giants before he came here.

Runner
03-14-2005, 08:07 PM
someone mentioned Wand played gaurd in college? perhaps he can move back to G

Wand played left tackle in college.

BornOrange
03-14-2005, 08:09 PM
I wonder how many of those that are so enthusiastic about signing Pace now will turn on him if he ends up dogging it or getting injured?

Honoring Earl 34
03-14-2005, 08:09 PM
:thumbup To get Pace for a first and third is not bad . Pace is in his prime when motivated . That would make Wand a swing tackle and allow him more time to learn .

Anyone remember the Redskins traded for Jim Lachey OT from the Raiders ? Lachey attended OSU also , coincidence I think not .

Vinny
03-14-2005, 08:10 PM
I wonder how many of those that are so enthusiastic about signing Pace now will turn on him if he ends up dogging it or getting injured?Pace has never missed a start in his entire career. He is on a Hall of Fame career pace. He would instantly be our first ever candidate to be a Hall of Famer for this franchise.

aj.
03-14-2005, 08:13 PM
Pace missed six games due to injury in 2002 (concern) and started only nine games his rookie season (not a concern).

Vinny
03-14-2005, 08:13 PM
Pace missed six games due to injury in 2002.My bad then. I was quoting Bob Allen from the news a few mins ago.

clandestin
03-14-2005, 08:16 PM
Just had a random thought about the franchise designation, and it requiring 2 firsts.

Say the Rams refuse to come down from two 1st round picks. Does anything prevent us from contacting the Patriots and trading #13 for their 2005 and 2006 firsts? And using those to acquire Pace?

shinerbock_girl
03-14-2005, 08:17 PM
I don't know, just a good feeling about this, i think the deal will offically go through. Guess we'll find out wednesday for sure.

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 08:17 PM
i bet someone in the Carr household is happy tonight.

Marcus
03-14-2005, 08:17 PM
were do you get the half from? so wand as a first year LT was not a problem? that wiegert and wade were injured was not a problem? i think that mckinney is popular whipping boy on the board.

I remember too many games watching him getting blown up by an inside rush.

Popular whipping boy? And for him to get on 610 AM every Tuesday and make stupid assinine quotes, such as "We have one of the top ten lines in the league". :shocked

He's brought it all on himself . . . er should I say 'yourself'. What are doing around this board this offseason, Steve? I thought you'd be out shooting animals with your BIG gun. :rolleyes:

stephen1
03-14-2005, 08:19 PM
i bet someone in the Carr household is happy tonight.
probably not

texasguy346
03-14-2005, 08:19 PM
Getting Orlando Pace for a 1st and a 3rd sounds like a pretty good deal to me. We'd still have two 7ths, and whatever we recieve if/when we trade Sharper. That should give Casserly plenty of wiggle room to do his thing on draft day.

texansfan88
03-14-2005, 08:21 PM
Getting Orlando Pace for a 1st and a 3rd sounds like a pretty good deal to me. We'd still have two 7ths, and whatever we recieve if/when we trade Sharper. That should give Casserly plenty of wiggle room to do his thing on draft day.
Not to mention a 2nd round pick...I wouldn't put it past Casserly to trade up in the draft again if someone like Clayton or Channing Crowder fell to around 27

BornOrange
03-14-2005, 08:21 PM
Tony Boselli was also on a Hall of Fame pace.

I'm not saying that Pace is definitely going to get injured, but that it is a possibility. His attitude is my biggest concern. How is he going to react to finally getting his big signing bonus? What kind of affect is his contract going to have on the Texans salary cap?

dirty steve
03-14-2005, 08:23 PM
hey man, no need to get offensive--i was just pointing out that the underachieving line might not have been all mckinney's fault. still waiting for where you get the half from.

does the big gun mean that i am redneck or something? nice assumption.

Erratic Assassin
03-14-2005, 08:23 PM
To get a top 5 Left Tackle you've got to give something up. There isn't a better player at #13 than Orlando Pace. If it takes a 1st and a 3rd, i'd do it in a heartbeat.

That's the way I look at it. LT is one of the most important positions on the field and Pace is one of the best in the league.

Pace would instantly become the best lineman on our team. I doubt we could even get a starter with the #13 pick this year. Our #13 pick would be a project at best. I'd take a sure thing over a project any day. And who is to say that the person we draft at #13 wouldn't be a complete bust?

Runner
03-14-2005, 08:24 PM
If we get Pace, this might be what they are thinking:

LT-Pace LG- Pitts C-Weigert RG-Wand RT-Wade

That's a big, tall line. Between Pace, Weigert, and Wade it would be pretty expensive too.

I still like Wand at tackle, but this would put our best lineman on the field. Wand could move back to LT in 3-4 years if Pace declines or gets cut for cap reasons, like the Titans did to all those players recently.

They'd just need some PPWWW nickname.

Texans Pride
03-14-2005, 08:25 PM
were do you get the half from? so wand as a first year LT was not a problem? that wiegert and wade were injured was not a problem? i think that mckinney is popular whipping boy on the board.

does anybody have a stat for number of sacks given up by each texans OL in 2004?


Hey Steve, nice to see you advocating for yourself!

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 08:25 PM
those are all things we dont know, but track record of our club is not to give monter money to players, true we overpaid slightly for good talent (Wade and Robaire Smith) but we are not the Redskins here.

Our history shows no reason to fear us giving pace a 30 million bonus and some horrific contract. Every player has Injury concerns, and he is one of the most durable left tackles in the league right now.

Alan66Rams
03-14-2005, 08:27 PM
Oh to be young again!

As most of us long time Ram fans know our history and drama run deep.
From winning 7 straight division titles in the 70s' w/out a ring, to having the best runner of his time Texan, Eric Dickerson, stupidly shipped out of town.
To watching a bumbling owner pack up the team and move them to the mid-west, all the while knowing this owner is only the owner because her husband died, mysteriously died. Thats not to mention having the league turnning a blind eye to defensive holding of recievers starting with Super Bowl 36. AKA 9/11 PATRIOT-IC Bowl. Oh the Drama.

Anyways that might help to explain some of our fans negative attitude on O Pace. Yes Orlando played sub-par last year at times, but so did the whole team. It definately seemed like Orlando was playing not to get hurt and end any chances at getting that long term contract. When he was motivated, like when he had to face former teammate Grant Wistrom he played exceptional.

The motivation for the Texans I am sure is increased by the difficulty young tackles have in this league. Jackie Slater not only didn't play much or start as a rookie, he used to get abused in practice by Jack Youngblood when he was a rookie. Even with all the hype these days leading up to the draft, the top O-Line prospects have not stepped right in and dominated. Even Robert Gallery, Jordan Gross and Eric Stienbach, three much better prospects than any tackle this year, played average at best. Steinbach better than average but that was at Guard. It is my opinion that QB and OT are the hardest positions for a rookie to have immeadiate success at. Then of course there is the Kenyatta Walker fear. The highest rated Tackle coming out four years ago, he flopped....on his face. Thats the Rams dilema if they trade Pace. The Rams have no worthy tackles with Pace gone and will need two vets.

Who at #13 will be available. Probably not DJ, Meriman or Rolle. And Barron, Brown and Barnes probably will need a year to adjust/improve to handle the Pro level DE's and blitzes. Casserly knows he cant lets Carr get pummled again and he needs to put points on the board now. Martz now has Jackson to hammer the ball so may actually pass less and thats why I think this may benifit both teams.

What you guys think?

utahmark
03-14-2005, 08:40 PM
if we are going to be a team that builds through the draft and doesnt waste money on expensive free agents, then this is the type of player we have to stay away from. i still dont think we are one player away. even our o-line is not one player away. we have 2 or 3 players on the oline that are not very good.

build through the draft. build through the draft. build through the draft.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 08:42 PM
if we are going to be a team that builds through the draft and doesnt waste money on expensive free agents, then this is the type of player we have to stay away from. i still dont think we are one player away. even our o-line is not one player away. we have 2 or 3 players on the oline that are not very good.

build through the draft. build through the draft. build through the draft.As to building the team, we have signed FA's as starters in 4 of the 6 line positions (if you include the TE) and Pitts was a 2nd rounder and Wand is a 3rd rounder to round out our line. On top of that the team picked up Tony Boselli in the expansion draft but obviously that didn't work out. If it did, we would have nothing but a veteran line with a second round pick in Pitts as our LG. Our goal was a veteran line with young developing, emerging skill players. Most people just donít slow down long enough to see that. With Pace we have what we wanted in Boselli all along. A veteran line with one of the best Tackles in the league to support young, developing skill players.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 08:43 PM
Martz now has Jackson to hammer the ball so may actually pass less and thats why I think this may benifit both teams.

What you guys think?

I don't think Martz is capable of "hammering the ball". He has to fit in his nifty plays. I also came up with a new coach for teams. It is the time management coach. His duties are to:
1. Keep track of timeouts
2. Assist head coach on when to use the red flag
3. Give advice on 2-minute drills
4. Advise when to use on-side kicks and when not to
5. Assist coach on when to take a 2 pt. conversion, an intensional safety, etc.

I think Andy Reid and Mike Martz would need to be the first two to hire one of these.

This is a good trade for the Texans. I think it might be good for the Rams to move on from Pace too.

infantrycak
03-14-2005, 08:44 PM
does anybody have a stat for number of sacks given up by each texans OL in 2004?

Wand 12.5 sacks, 1 false start, 2 holds
Pitts 6 sacks, 7 false starts, 3 holds
McKinney, 4 sacks, 0 false starts, 0 holds
Weigert 4.5 sacks, 2 false starts, 0 holds
Wade 6 sacks, 3 false starts, 0 holds

Spears 2 sacks, 1 false start, 0 holds
Weary 0 sacks, 1 false start, 0 holds
Brown 1.75 sacks, 3 false starts, 1 hold

Alan66Rams
03-14-2005, 08:45 PM
You mean like the other expansion team?
Cleaveland Browns: Courtney Brown, William Green, Kevin Johnson and oh yeah Tim Couch.......worked for them! :rolleyes: