PDA

View Full Version : How many sacks


Joe Texan
03-14-2005, 09:43 AM
would we average for the season and per game if we went with this linebacker lineup in your honest opinion?


Babin Wong Greenwood - Peek



Season................................60+


Per Game..............................4

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 10:00 AM
Not a chance we average 4 sacks per game with that lineup. Who will be our main tackler (sharper's position) It is not Greenwood. Peek can tear up in coverage and in the backfield, but he will catch the injury bug as the season wears on. Babin will maybe double his sack output this year maybe even triple it, but wong in the middle will not get many sacks and Greenwood also will not. Our best rusher last year was Peek and D-Rob we should look into letting Earl blitz more since he was quite good at in college.
Last year we averaged about 1.5 per game you are giving us a huge jump with an unproven lineup. Peek will be huge as a starter, and Wong and Greenwood will work coverage the question is how good will Babin, R. Smith, D-Rob, Earl, Payne+ draft picks be at getting sacks.

I see us averaging about 2.5 pergame which would put us at about 40 for the season

edo783
03-14-2005, 10:43 AM
40 sacks would put us near the top of the league based on this years stats. I could go for that. I suspect with that group that we would struggle to get to the middle of the league in run support though.

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 11:13 AM
I think our LB's will get around 25 sacks. That is a step up from previous years.

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 11:18 AM
Man our linebackers only had 14.5 sacks last year you are talking about one unit going up 10.5 sacks in one year without any major pass rushing signing as of yet. That is highly unlikely!!

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 11:22 AM
We have increased our LB speed. With Greenwood and Wong on the inside, we have more speed on the inside. They plan on doing more blitzing from the inside as well. That opens things up for Babin and Peek (or whoever is our ROLB). I think the ILB's will combine for about 8-10 sacks and the OLB's will have around 14-16.

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 11:36 AM
Greenwood has never had more than 1.5 sacks in a year and either Wong or Greenwood will have to take up the slack of tackling. come on Ogre to think that our ILBs in a 3-4 system are going to go for 8-10 sacks is really wishing, but delusional dreamworlds are all the rave nowadays.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 11:41 AM
Seau never had more than 3 sacks in the Miami system either. They get them from their DE's. Hard to compare schemes like this.

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 11:49 AM
3 is the amount that Greenwood has had his whole career, and you are right, but Greenwood was a blitzer in the Miami system that is why I brought it up, Seau was the roamer and Zach Thomas was the tackler. the point I am trying to make is we have to have each of these in place in order to garner sacks in our system and we add a coverage backer which is going to be greenwood. Wong was our leader in sacks and will be put inside which will take his sack total down likely by 2 with peek in the lineup he we will force at least 5 more turnovers and acquire 5 more sacks due to his pressure. I am going to give BABIN the benefit of the doubt and say he will blossom this year, but he is no Terrell Suggs hopefully he can at least be a Kevin greene. By the way did anyone notice the guy we gave up in Posey had 10 sacks for the Chargers this year. WHAT A *****!!

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 11:50 AM
I meant Foley sorry!!

TheOgre
03-14-2005, 11:55 AM
Here are some ILB's who have gotten sacks:
Kendrall Bell
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235195
Tedy Bruschi
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/3189
Even our Jamie Sharper had some
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/4250

I don't think 8-10 is that unreasonable if we do plan on doing some interior blitzes.

Vinny
03-14-2005, 11:56 AM
I am going to give BABIN the benefit of the doubt and say he will blossom this year, but he is no Terrell Suggs hopefully he can at least be a Kevin greene. Just as a side note, Kevin Greene didn't get his 17th (total) sack until his 4th year in the league. He went on to be a terror at OLB after he matured as a player in the NFL and had several double digit sack years...but it didn't happen right away.

cadahnic
03-14-2005, 12:03 PM
I know that Vinny that is what I am saying about Babin. I hope that is the situation even though in today's football if you dont produce in your first three you get to produce with another team.

scourge
03-14-2005, 03:55 PM
I'd say we should have somewhere between 32-38 range...

texansfan88
03-15-2005, 07:18 PM
would we average for the season and per game if we went with this linebacker lineup in your honest opinion?


Babin Wong Greenwood - Peek



Season................................60+


Per Game..............................4
can you say HOMER?

TexansTrueFan
03-15-2005, 09:00 PM
haha Joe Texan isnt no homer, i actually can see where he's coming from by saying 60+. I do like the LB crew we have this year better than last years !

outofhnd
03-16-2005, 03:36 AM
Wong will be an excelent inside tackler definately an upgrade from foreman not to mention with this line backing core, they have lined up on different sides they have all played at different ends so it helps scheme where we could move wong outside for a play and have speedsters Peek and Greenwood drop in coverage. To me it just looks more versatile and athletic than the lineup we had last year.

D-ReK
03-16-2005, 04:02 AM
Babin - 8
Wong - 3
Greenwood - 2
Peek - 7

It's hard to speculate how many sacks Greenwood and Peek would have since Morlon was never used as a pass rusher and Peek has never started a full season, so these numbers could easily go up, but I doubt our starting LBs get over 30 sacks this year...

outofhnd
03-16-2005, 04:26 AM
I wish our sack total was equal to the number of snaps the opposing teams take against us :woot

TexanFanInCC
03-16-2005, 11:03 AM
40 sacks on the year isnt bad. im guaranteeing at least 9 for peek, 6 for babin, 3 for wong, 3 for greenwood, walker with 3 or 4, robaire with 2, seth with 2, earl for 2, dunta for 3, and 4 for any other reserves. that totals 41 sacks

TexanFanInCC
03-16-2005, 11:05 AM
I wish our sack total was equal to the number of snaps the opposing teams take against us :woot

we would win the superbowl. thats like way more than 30 sacks a game

TexanFanInCC
03-16-2005, 11:07 AM
but i think what we need to do is go all out in shoring up our defensive backfield. if we do that we can play more man to man coverage and blitz more.

BattleRedRaider
03-16-2005, 11:48 AM
THE TEXANS ARE SUPER BOWL-BOUND. Oh, we will hear these words soon.

But yeah, combining great man-to-man coverage with an awesome pass rush, and we'll be unstoppable.

BigDTexansFan
03-19-2005, 03:52 PM
LBs only, I say 30-40 as a D...we could go higher IF D-line comes to play and gets some pressure on the QB

Overalls
03-19-2005, 06:23 PM
If my memory serves me right, which it doesn't always, the Texans have had ONE player with more than 5 sacks in a season (8) and we let him go the next year.

BornOrange
03-19-2005, 11:27 PM
If my memory serves me right, which it doesn't always, the Texans have had ONE player with more than 5 sacks in a season (8) and we let him go the next year.
Wong had 5.5 sacks both in 2004 and 2002.
Sharper had 5.5 sacks in 2002
Walker had 6.5 sacks in 2002
Posey had 8 sacks in 2002 and left without the Texans having a chance to make a counter offer.

BornOrange
03-20-2005, 02:22 PM
The Texans sack history:

2004 - 24 sacks 22 INT's 530 attempts
LB's - 14.5 sacks; 11.5 OLB's, 3 ILB's
5.5 Wong (O)
4.0 Babin (O)
2.0 Sharper (I)
2.0 Peek (O)
1.0 Polk (I)

DL - 4.5 sacks
2.0 Smith
2.0 Payne
0.5 Walker

DB's - 4.0 sacks
3.0 Robinson
1.0 Wright


2003 19 sacks 14 INT's 502 attempts
LB's - 14.0 sacks; 8 OLB's, 6 ILB's
4.0 Sharper (I)
3.0 Wong (O)
2.0 Foreman (I)
2.0 Orr (O)
1.0 Foley (O)
1.0 Clemons (O)
1.0 Peek (O)

DL - 3.5 sacks
1.0 Martin
1.0 Sears
1.0 Payne
0.5 Ioane

DB's - 1.5 sacks
1.0 Wright
0.5 Brown


2002 - 35 sacks 10 INT's 512 attempts
LB's - 20 sacks; 14.5 OLB's, 5.5 ILB's
8.0 Posey (O)
5.5 Sharper (I)
5.5 Wong (O)
1.0 Mitchell (O)

DL - 9.5 sacks
6.5 Walker
1.0 Payne
1.0 Deloach
1.0 Sears

DB's - 4.5 sacks
1.0 Glenn
1.0 Wright
1.0 Simmons
1.0 Carter
0.5 Brown

Texan in Japan
03-20-2005, 03:10 PM
The Texans sack history:

2004 - 24 sacks 22 INT's 530 attempts
LB's - 14.5 sacks; 11.5 OLB's, 3 ILB's
5.5 Wong (O)
4.0 Babin (O)
2.0 Sharper (I)
2.0 Peek (O)
1.0 Polk (I)

DL - 4.5 sacks
2.0 Smith
2.0 Payne
0.5 Walker

DB's - 4.0 sacks
3.0 Robinson
1.0 Wright


2003 19 sacks 14 INT's 502 attempts
LB's - 14.0 sacks; 8 OLB's, 6 ILB's
4.0 Sharper (I)
3.0 Wong (O)
2.0 Foreman (I)
2.0 Orr (O)
1.0 Foley (O)
1.0 Clemons (O)
1.0 Peek (O)

DL - 3.5 sacks
1.0 Martin
1.0 Sears
1.0 Payne
0.5 Ioane

DB's - 1.5 sacks
1.0 Wright
0.5 Brown


2002 - 35 sacks 10 INT's 512 attempts
LB's - 20 sacks; 14.5 OLB's, 5.5 ILB's
8.0 Posey (O)
5.5 Sharper (I)
5.5 Wong (O)
1.0 Mitchell (O)

DL - 9.5 sacks
6.5 Walker
1.0 Payne
1.0 Deloach
1.0 Sears

DB's - 4.5 sacks
1.0 Glenn
1.0 Wright
1.0 Simmons
1.0 Carter
0.5 Brown

Nice post! I'm hoping some of the hype about Tim Cheatwood is accurate also. If it is, he could help pump that sack total up.

edo783
03-20-2005, 04:52 PM
Interesting - 2004 compared to 2002 - sacks down by 30% but INTs up ~110%. INTs are change of possesions, so that seems more important in my book, not that more sacks aren't a good thing. You would think if we were getting more sacks that the INTs would have been higher due to QBs being pressured and then making more throwing errors, yet last year when QBs had all week to throw, we picked off more.

BornOrange
03-20-2005, 06:45 PM
Sorry, real life stepped in and I wasn't able to complete my post.

The original question was if the Texans could get 60 sacks with a LB corp of Babin - Wong - Greenwood - Peek.

That is almost impossible, at least next year. The Texans only had 24 sacks and the league leading total was 48. 47 led the league in 2003 and 56 led the league in 2002. I think the pass rush will be improved, especially with Wong in the middle and Peek starting, but an incremental change is more likely.

Looking at the Texans sack history, the first year was the best year with OLB Posey leading the way with 8 sacks, but DL Walker also had 6.5, ILB Sharper had 5.5, and OLB Wong had 5.5. Those four alone combined for 25.5 sacks. Posey left the next season, Walker has battled injuries, Sharper has slowed down, and Wong never developed into a premier pass rusher. At the time we all thought the pass rush would improve, but we've only seen one Texan (Wong in 2004) match the 5.5 sacks that four guys got in 2002.

For 2005, I think the LB's are going to be more effective getting to the QB. Babin had a really good year for a rookie and is likely to show improvement in his second year. If Peek wraps up a starting job, he could very well have a breakout type year. He has the size, speed, and intensity to be a superb pass rusher but just needs to mature and harness his ability. I don't think it is too much of a reach to expect that the OLB's will get 16 sacks this season.

The ILB's are also going to get more sacks. Wong and Greenwood are definitely a faster combo than Sharper and Foreman. Even though Greenwood will primarily be a cover LB, I think the Texans are going to use his speed to occasionally blitz. Also, Wong is going to love blitzing from an inside spot. The offense knows the OLB's are coming after the QB and have OT's ready for them. However, ILB's don't rush every pass play and they get to come in behind the big boys. It is easier for the ILB's to be unaccounted for and get to the QB untouched. I think Wong will be able to match and maybe exceed Sharper's best sack total, so I think the ILB's will be getting about 8 sacks this year.

The defensive line should also get more sacks, especially if the old guys can stay healthy and if there is a youth infusion. I doubt Walker will ever have 6.5 sacks again, but I don't think 3 or 4 is out of the question. Remember, he played with nagging foot problems all year last year. Smith was able to get 2 sacks playing in a new system, and Payne was able to get 2 sacks while recovering from knee surgery. If the Texans draft a DE on the first day, which is highly likely, those fresh young legs should help get a couple of sacks. Mark this group down for at least 8 sacks.

Finally, we have the defensive backs. Everyone knows that Fangio runs a complicated defense and there has been speculation that we still haven't seen the full defense yet. One aspect that we started to see last year was the corner blitz with Robinson. I expect to see that even more this year, especially if they bring in another first day corner. Also, with Earl having a year of experience under his belt we should see some more safety blitzes. Earl has more speed than Brown did at strong safety and should be a better blitzer. Also, Coleman may get sent more as he was also adjusting to the safety position last year. I think 6 sacks is a pretty conservative estimate for this group.

That adds up to 38 sacks, which would be about in the middle of the pack among NFL teams but a huge leap forward for the Texans defense.

keyfro
03-20-2005, 07:30 PM
babin-7
wong-3
greenwood-2.5
peek-10.5
total=23 sks for linebacking corp...which would be pretty good

i see d.rob having another 3-4 sacks himself...i see us blitzing earl some and he might get 1 or 2...the d-line should have around 6 or 7 total...giving us as a defense a sack total of 33-36 which of course would be a huge improvement over last season

TexansTrueFan
03-20-2005, 10:35 PM
babin-7
wong-3
greenwood-2.5
peek-10.5
total=23 sks for linebacking corp...which would be pretty good

i see d.rob having another 3-4 sacks himself...i see us blitzing earl some and he might get 1 or 2...the d-line should have around 6 or 7 total...giving us as a defense a sack total of 33-36 which of course would be a huge improvement over last season


The D-line better get more than 7 total this year !!!!!!!!!

michaelm
03-21-2005, 02:23 AM
I can imagine between 22-24 for the starting LB's...
Peek - 9
Babin - 8
Greenwood - 3 or 4
Wong - 2 or 3

I think Greenwood's speed is the wildcard. How he adapts to the role will tell the tale. I feel like he can be a difference maker up the middle, since we've never really had that kind of speed at the position. It just remains to be seen if he can handle the adjustment.

Funny how many of the posts (including mine) assume Peek as the starter @ ROLB...

TheOgre
07-06-2006, 01:03 PM
It dawned on me today that we had this thread out there. While the Texans struggled in several areas last year, getting sacks was not one of them.


I think our LB's will get around 25 sacks. That is a step up from previous years.


Man our linebackers only had 14.5 sacks last year you are talking about one unit going up 10.5 sacks in one year without any major pass rushing signing as of yet. That is highly unlikely!!

Wouldn't you say that 24.5 sacks is "around 25"?


We have increased our LB speed. With Greenwood and Wong on the inside, we have more speed on the inside. They plan on doing more blitzing from the inside as well. That opens things up for Babin and Peek (or whoever is our ROLB). I think the ILB's will combine for about 8-10 sacks and the OLB's will have around 14-16.

Greenwood has never had more than 1.5 sacks in a year and either Wong or Greenwood will have to take up the slack of tackling. come on Ogre to think that our ILBs in a 3-4 system are going to go for 8-10 sacks is really wishing, but delusional dreamworlds are all the rave nowadays.

I did overestimate the ILB's and underestimate the OLB's, but the net result was the same.

OLB's
Orr 7, Peek 6, Babin 4, C. Anderson 1 = 18 sacks (predicted 14-16)

ILB's
Polk 3.5, Greenwood 2, Wong 1 = 6.5 sacks (predicted 8-10)
http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/HOU

the wonger need food
07-06-2006, 01:13 PM
It dawned on me today that we had this thread out there. While the Texans struggled in several areas last year, getting sacks was not one of them.

Maybe not from a statistical standpoint, but they rarely got pressure on the QB.

DocBar
07-06-2006, 01:32 PM
That was some funny reading. Amazing how things turn out and how different it looks a year later. I need to research some more threads in the archive.
I believe it will help me keep things in perspective as this new era begins.

TheOgre
07-06-2006, 01:35 PM
Maybe not from a statistical standpoint, but they rarely got pressure on the QB.

I think it was a tale of two halves. The first half of the season we could sack a bag of groceries. The second half (granted it was against inferior opponents) I think we did a pretty decent job of pressuring the QB.