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View Full Version : Texans push Amobi Okoye to finish


JB
07-08-2010, 02:49 PM
He’s got to find another level and I think he understands that,” general manager Rick Smith said. “He’s got to find another level of production, he’s got to find another level of intensity, and I think he gets that. We’re expecting to see that.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/24799/texans-push-amobi-okoye-to-finish

badboy
07-08-2010, 02:55 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/24799/texans-push-amobi-okoye-to-fini**** will be his year, one way or the other.

JB
07-08-2010, 02:58 PM
It will be his year, one way or the other.

Yep, I am hoping it all comes together for him this year. The rotation of Smith, Okoye and Mitchell inside on passing downs will be awesome.

thunderkyss
07-08-2010, 03:01 PM
Yep, I am hoping it all comes together for him this year. The rotation of Smith, Okoye and Mitchell inside on passing downs will be awesome.

Personally, I'd like to keep Smith outside, and improve that rotation.

HOU-TEX
07-08-2010, 03:01 PM
Nice article, JB. I'm beginning to really like Kollar. He sounds like the hard ass we need to coach the Dline.

On Okoye, I no longer care if he's a 1st rounder or not and it sounds like Kollar's thinking the same thing. Who ever wins the position should start. Period

JB
07-08-2010, 03:05 PM
Personally, I'd like to keep Smith outside, and improve that rotation.

I think that Smith is a much more disruptive pass rusher from the inside. And Kollar apparantly thinks the same. But if Mitchell and Okoye can step up, then that gives Bush a lot more versatility in what he can do with those 3 plus Barwin and Mario.

JB
07-08-2010, 03:06 PM
Nice article, JB. I'm beginning to really like Kollar. He sounds like the hard ass we need to coach the Dline.

On Okoye, I no longer care if he's a 1st rounder or not and it sounds like Kollar's thinking the same thing. Who ever wins the position should start. Period

Totally agree. I also find it interesting that Okoye has been battling injuries that we did not know about...ie. the bulging disc.

Rey
07-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Personally, I'd like to keep Smith outside, and improve that rotation.

If you keep Smith outside, where does that leave Barwin?



From what I saw Smith was pretty good getting after the QB from the interior...

Any particular reason you don't want him inside?

Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, because I think that we could throw a lot of combinations out there and still get results...

Rey
07-08-2010, 03:24 PM
Okoye was listed at 315 pounds last season and played at around 300. He is currently 283. Is lighter the way to go? If he gives up any ability to hold the point of attack, we may well be asking if it was a smart trade-off for a bit more quickness, but he’s hoping to hold up better at a lighter weight and being quicker than his blocker.

I've always believed that you should maximize your strenghts and play to them.
Everybody can't be good at everything.

thunderkyss
07-08-2010, 03:26 PM
If you keep Smith outside, where does that leave Barwin?



My thinking is that if we can find someone to replace Smith on the inside, then he can actually take a break when Barwin is in. So when Smith goes back out, he is actually stronger and faster, than when he has to sub inside.

I want to keep Mario, Barwin, and Smith fresh, so they can give us 100% each and every snap for 60 minutes.

I'd also like a similar situation inside. Just don't know who we've got inside to do it.

HOU-TEX
07-08-2010, 03:57 PM
My thinking is that if we can find someone to replace Smith on the inside, then he can actually take a break when Barwin is in. So when Smith goes back out, he is actually stronger and faster, than when he has to sub inside.

I want to keep Mario, Barwin, and Smith fresh, so they can give us 100% each and every snap for 60 minutes.

I'd also like a similar situation inside. Just don't know who we've got inside to do it.

We want the best 4 pass rushers on the field in those situations. Considering Smith is our best pass rushing DT, I'd think you'd want to have this replacement take Okoye's spot. Smith has proven he can rush from that position, Okoye has not.

Rey
07-08-2010, 04:17 PM
My thinking is that if we can find someone to replace Smith on the inside, then he can actually take a break when Barwin is in. So when Smith goes back out, he is actually stronger and faster, than when he has to sub inside.

I want to keep Mario, Barwin, and Smith fresh, so they can give us 100% each and every snap for 60 minutes.

I'd also like a similar situation inside. Just don't know who we've got inside to do it.

Thats a good point.

I don't think it will be as simple as this guy is gonna be in on that play, and this guy is gonna be in on that play though.

Like if we are playing the Colts or some other team that passes a lot, I would hope that the coaches throw Barwin in on some short-medium yardage situations. If we are playing a team that runs a lot I hope that they adjust to that as well.

3rd and longs are obvious passing downs though so I think you'd want your best 4 rushers out there...Even if you are a bit gassed, if you stop them it's fourth down and you get to rest anyways...

I don't think they want Barwin to be a situational guy either...I think they want him to be able to spell guys if they get tired or are dinged up...

I think we'll see some differnt combinations in third and long untill guys step up and prove that they're dominant.

GP
07-08-2010, 04:52 PM
Blah, blah, blah,......

Different year. Same song and dance.

Brisco_County
07-08-2010, 05:27 PM
This is the first anyone's heard of a bulging disc. Symptoms like tissue inflammation and nerve impingement aren't good for a position where you're trying to stand up 300 lbs O-linemen.

Double Barrel
07-08-2010, 05:38 PM
Blah, blah, blah,......

Different year. Same song and dance.

My thoughts exactly. :yawn:

I thought the guy was a reach when we picked him and believe he's a 1st round bust to this day. I hope he proves me wrong, but I don't have any expectations about it at this point.

MightyTExan
07-08-2010, 06:55 PM
This quote is what disturbs me. Looks like he's missing something that can't be taught.

“I watched all the games from the year before [2008] and the guys here said he needed to be a more physical player,” Kollar said. “We kept on him: ‘Hey, man you’ve got to hit, when that ball carrier is going down you’ve got to go down and get him, you’ve got to finish plays more.’ It was a big thing. He definitely did a better job, but he can do more…

“Don’t come over and stand by the guy, you’ve got to finish it off… If you don’t like getting in there and scrapping and grinding, you can’t play in this league. We’ve got to make sure when the pads are on that’s what he’s doing.”

rush2112mn
07-08-2010, 07:07 PM
"If your not improving....your losing"....I thought of that phrase when i read that article......
I think Kollar is expecting more out of Okoye. I think Okoye knows that. Question is......is Okoye going to talk it or do it. Does he have the heart, the resolve the determination to do it does he have the drive, is he hungry enough?....we will see, because he has guys breathing down his neck now.


Kubiak has wanted this team where the competition for positions is at a high level. I think the battle for defensive interior linemen is one of those competions this year....

I hope Okoye does make it.....

CloakNNNdagger
07-08-2010, 07:44 PM
This is the first anyone's heard of a bulging disc. Symptoms like tissue inflammation and nerve impingement aren't good for a position where you're trying to stand up 300 lbs O-linemen.

"Not good" is an understatement. I would suspect that the weight loss is as much, if not more, in response to the bulging disc as for "quickness." Furthermore, "beer gut" defensive linemen tend to have poorly developed abs, which is a major support factor for the back.

Two questions come to mind right off the bat. First, will it recur? Recurrence is not uncommon following appropriate treatment, especially following a triggering of back spasms which the typical trauma a lineman sustains can easily initiate. That's not to mention compromises required at the weight room to avoid aggravation. Second, will his new lower weight, which he enjoyed in his college success, allow him to compete at the NFL level with equivalent results.

TimeKiller
07-08-2010, 08:10 PM
nah nah naaaah nah
nah nah naaaah nah
O - KOY - E
gooood byyyye!!

drs23
07-08-2010, 08:48 PM
"He’s got a bulging disc in his back and lingering issues with his knees, an ankle and a shoulder."

Has Belicheck been filling out our injury reports?:kitten:

spurstexanstros
07-08-2010, 08:55 PM
can the bulging disk make a tackle? the guy its attached to cant.

JB
07-08-2010, 08:57 PM
can the bulging disk make a tackle? the guy its attached to cant.

Why do you say that? He played the run pretty well last year.

jppaul
07-09-2010, 12:18 AM
The most interesting part of that article is that link to KC Joyner's piece:

Okoye drew a double-team on running plays at his POA (point of attack) 56.4 percent of the time last year, a rate that was much higher than that of any other Texans defensive lineman (Shaun Cody was closest with a 43.1 percent double-team rate).

That is impressive enough, but its real value is seen when it is contrasted with the percentages of some other top-notch defensive linemen. Vince Wilfork and Casey Hampton -- Pro Bowl nose tackles for the New England Patriots and Steelers, respectively -- saw double-team rates of 50.5 percent and 56.4 percent. Washington Redskins start Albert Haynesworth posted a 40.5 percent total in this metric. Jason Ferguson of the Miami Dolphins notched a 49.2 percent mark. Even the New York Jets' Kris Jenkins, maybe the most dominant run-stuffing lineman in the league, saw two blockers less often than Okoye (51.4 percent). Okoye's total more than holds its own against those of some of the biggest names in the league.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=5361726

GP
07-09-2010, 12:39 AM
This quote is what disturbs me. Looks like he's missing something that can't be taught.

“I watched all the games from the year before [2008] and the guys here said he needed to be a more physical player,” Kollar said. “We kept on him: ‘Hey, man you’ve got to hit, when that ball carrier is going down you’ve got to go down and get him, you’ve got to finish plays more.’ It was a big thing. He definitely did a better job, but he can do more…

“Don’t come over and stand by the guy, you’ve got to finish it off… If you don’t like getting in there and scrapping and grinding, you can’t play in this league. We’ve got to make sure when the pads are on that’s what he’s doing.”

Ouch.

CloakNNNdagger
07-09-2010, 07:07 AM
The most interesting part of that article is that link to KC Joyner's piece:

Okoye drew a double-team on running plays at his POA (point of attack) 56.4 percent of the time last year, a rate that was much higher than that of any other Texans defensive lineman (Shaun Cody was closest with a 43.1 percent double-team rate).

That is impressive enough, but its real value is seen when it is contrasted with the percentages of some other top-notch defensive linemen. Vince Wilfork and Casey Hampton -- Pro Bowl nose tackles for the New England Patriots and Steelers, respectively -- saw double-team rates of 50.5 percent and 56.4 percent. Washington Redskins start Albert Haynesworth posted a 40.5 percent total in this metric. Jason Ferguson of the Miami Dolphins notched a 49.2 percent mark. Even the New York Jets' Kris Jenkins, maybe the most dominant run-stuffing lineman in the league, saw two blockers less often than Okoye (51.4 percent). Okoye's total more than holds its own against those of some of the biggest names in the league.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=5361726

Stats can be made to tell you what you want to see. But those same stats can also tell tell you what you are afraid to see.

In this case, those supposed top notched DT's are usually double-teamed to prevent them from their notable individual attempts at getting to the QB and and the RB. Most have decent supporting cast to either side that are still significant threats to get through the offense. With Okoye, his individual efforts are certainly not feared, and double-teams seem to be there to divert the play to numerous weak spots on our line. :shades:

HJam72
07-09-2010, 07:24 AM
Stats can be made to tell you what you want to see. But those same stats can also tell tell you what you are afraid to see.

In this case, those supposed top notched DT's are usually double-teamed to prevent them from their notable individual attempts at getting to the QB and and the RB. Most have decent supporting cast to either side that are still significant threats to get through the offense. With Okoye, his individual efforts are certainly not feared, and double-teams seem to be there to divert the play to numerous weak spots on our line. :shades:

Good observation. Helps me understand WHY the stats are misleading.

infantrycak
07-09-2010, 10:34 AM
Stats can be made to tell you what you want to see. But those same stats can also tell tell you what you are afraid to see.

In this case, those supposed top notched DT's are usually double-teamed to prevent them from their notable individual attempts at getting to the QB and and the RB. Most have decent supporting cast to either side that are still significant threats to get through the offense. With Okoye, his individual efforts are certainly not feared, and double-teams seem to be there to divert the play to numerous weak spots on our line. :shades:

Valid hypothetical of how stats can lie. However this deals specifically with run plays and the reality is the run D was pretty good last year. Now another reality is many run schemes will result on a double team on a DT on most plays so by default even suck DT's (not aimed at Okoye) are going to pick up a fair number of double teams by nature of the blocking scheme rather than individual determination of merit.

nero THE zero
07-09-2010, 11:00 AM
Personally, I'd like to keep Smith outside, and improve that rotation.
Then who are you sitting between Mario and Barwin?

steelbtexan
07-09-2010, 11:37 AM
SOS different year.

After all of the talk Okoye is no different than the Texans as a franchise.

They have talked the talk but haven't walked the walk. They need to make the playoffs this year. Maybe this year will be different. I have my doubts.

thunderkyss
07-09-2010, 11:42 AM
Okoye's total more than holds its own against those of some of the biggest names in the league.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=5361726

And our run D was as good as anybody's from week 4 on.

thunderkyss
07-09-2010, 11:51 AM
Then who are you sitting between Mario and Barwin?

I would be fine, if two of the three are on the field at all times. I wouldn't have two of them sitting on the sidelines at any point in the game.

Then, there is also rumor that Malcom Sheppard can play outside as well. If he's got the speed, and he lives up to the hype, he can be added to the 4 man outside rotation, along with Tim Jamison, or any other DT that makes the team.

Mario, Antonio, Connor

Sheppard

Amobi, Mitchell


Hopefully, with Mario, Antonio, and Amobi getting less snaps, they can be more effective, for 60 minutes, instead of getting close alot, and never finishing.

gtexan02
07-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Gotta love the offsesason and generic headlines

whats next:

Breaking news:

"Texans hoping players do well"

76Texan
07-09-2010, 03:25 PM
The most interesting part of that article is that link to KC Joyner's piece:

Okoye drew a double-team on running plays at his POA (point of attack) 56.4 percent of the time last year, a rate that was much higher than that of any other Texans defensive lineman (Shaun Cody was closest with a 43.1 percent double-team rate).

That is impressive enough, but its real value is seen when it is contrasted with the percentages of some other top-notch defensive linemen. Vince Wilfork and Casey Hampton -- Pro Bowl nose tackles for the New England Patriots and Steelers, respectively -- saw double-team rates of 50.5 percent and 56.4 percent. Washington Redskins start Albert Haynesworth posted a 40.5 percent total in this metric. Jason Ferguson of the Miami Dolphins notched a 49.2 percent mark. Even the New York Jets' Kris Jenkins, maybe the most dominant run-stuffing lineman in the league, saw two blockers less often than Okoye (51.4 percent). Okoye's total more than holds its own against those of some of the biggest names in the league.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=5361726Joyner realized that his stats of Okoye's win against the double team was incorrect and is trying to make up for it? Fine, I'll take it.

Otherwise, I'd like to know what he means in the bolded parts...
after he had thrown Okoye under the bus!

CloakNNNdagger
07-09-2010, 06:12 PM
Valid hypothetical of how stats can lie. However this deals specifically with run plays and the reality is the run D was pretty good last year. Now another reality is many run schemes will result on a double team on a DT on most plays so by default even suck DT's (not aimed at Okoye) are going to pick up a fair number of double teams by nature of the blocking scheme rather than individual determination of merit.

Also a good point.

Brisco_County
07-10-2010, 05:05 AM
"Not good" is an understatement. I would suspect that the weight loss is as much, if not more, in response to the bulging disc as for "quickness." Furthermore, "beer gut" defensive linemen tend to have poorly developed abs, which is a major support factor for the back.

Two questions come to mind right off the bat. First, will it recur? Recurrence is not uncommon following appropriate treatment, especially following a triggering of back spasms which the typical trauma a lineman sustains can easily initiate. That's not to mention compromises required at the weight room to avoid aggravation. Second, will his new lower weight, which he enjoyed in his college success, allow him to compete at the NFL level with equivalent results.

That single bit of information about the bulging disc just killed my remaining optimism for Okoye. I love the guy, but I think it's the beginning of the end. I'm looking in my crystal ball and I see his career ending within two years. Here's why, off the top of my head:

1) It is definitely limiting his weight training, and will continue to do so. No one can or should be giving 100% exertion on squats --the most important routine at his position-- with a bulging disc.

2)He's only 23 and he has this injury.

3) Bulging discs don't remedy themselves without surgery. That means it's going to have to be managed. That means less reps, less exertion, dwindling numbers, and a less valuable DT on this team. Okoye's in no position to sustain that at this point.

4) If it isn't managed or operated on, he's due for spasms, nerve damage, and things much more painful, which I don't want to think about.

I hope I'm wrong about this, but it's what seems probable. I want to think that it can be managed, he'll be faster, he's putting it all together, and things will pan out... But just try saying the term "bulging disc" without wincing, or visualizing hampered performance.

My crystal ball also tells me that Earl Mitchell is our three technique DT of the future. When I look to see what our solution at nose will be, it gets murky (Don't buy your crystal balls at Wal-Mart).

Related: Here's (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2392566) an article about John David Booty getting surgery for the same injury. I remember seeing a report about him doing a lot of core ab training as part of his rehab. Keep in mind that QB's don't have to do leg exercises like linemen in order to compete.

thunderkyss
07-10-2010, 09:15 AM
That single bit of information about the bulging disc just killed my remaining optimism for Okoye.

I hope I'm wrong about this, but it's what seems probable.

I'm hoping the single bit of information is wrong. What are the odds, that he's had something this serious (I think it's serious) and no one knew.

He also dropped what 15 lbs working out, so he's capable of working out.


My crystal ball also tells me that Earl Mitchell is our three technique DT of the future. When I look to see what our solution at nose will be, it gets murky (Don't buy your crystal balls at Wal-Mart).

Hopefully we'll start bringing them in, in large numbers, until we find someone who can play... Instead of bringing guys in, and crossing our fingers.

CloakNNNdagger
07-10-2010, 10:36 AM
I'm hoping the single bit of information is wrong. What are the odds, that he's had something this serious (I think it's serious) and no one knew.

TK,
Bulging discs can be painless without weakness, painfull with weakness, or painless with weakness. In some cases, the weakness is not recognized. In other cases, when recognized, it is not properly worked up, and the source remains unidentified. On the other hand, when pain is present, it is not uncommonly treated emperically with pain meds or muscle relaxants, taking for granted that the sources is simply muscular back spasms. Again the source is missed when the proper workup is not initiated early on. The routine use of typical gravity boots, contrary to popular belief, actually aggravates muscular back spasms......and bulging disks.

He also dropped what 15 lbs working out, so he's capable of working out.

As far as weight loss, aerobic excercises account for most athlete's weight loss. It is enhanced with weight training which augments the muscle mass with the accompanying increased metabolic calorie needs of the body. But much of the weight loss through weight training alone is negated by the increased weight of the muscle produced in relationship to the lesser weight of fat metabolized.