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royce1054
03-13-2005, 01:21 AM
I want to take a vote here.
Who thinks Spears, roth, pollack
or who think Williamson, Clayton or trade?

I want to hear opinoin and reasons

I think Williamson...

jr0ck
03-13-2005, 03:00 AM
im leaning heavily toward pollack. even if sharper stays, we could definately use a young foundation of LB's to build for the future with. with everything else being somewhat addressed this offseason, i think our top picks go to an LB and someone in the secondary....

royce1054
03-13-2005, 03:09 AM
But we have resigned the whole DL. And peek is a good contender for the last spot on the team. I dont see us drating a DL in the 1st round and him not starting... isnt that too much money for someone who wont start..
Remember we have Smith, Payne and walker... Maybe next year i can see a 1st round Dl. I think WR is a much more pressing need. LB core i think is set. I hope sharper stays but if he does they definetly wont draft DL. IF he is traded or released I see peek stepping in. I just cant see a DL in the 1st 4 rounds. I think WR 1st round... OL 2nd.... 3rd a LB and maybe a corner then 4th rd maybe a DL. I think we need a good #2 and i think Williamson would be a good person to fill that position.

beerlover
03-13-2005, 04:00 AM
I want to take a vote here.
Who thinks Spears, roth, pollack
or who think Williamson, Clayton or trade?

I want to hear opinoin and reasons

I think Williamson...

my best guess is...........none of the above :hmmm:

royce1054
03-13-2005, 04:09 AM
who is your guess

Beastlyman2003
03-13-2005, 10:57 AM
Dude i watched Tennessee play in a game against Florida and their LB Kevin Burnett is a monstrosity. That dude is furious when hes on the field. His name was being called like evey defensive play! We could get him with our second rounder. I also wouldnt mind Chris Spencer(OG/C). I think they anylists said that he had one of the best interior lineman workouts that they had seen in years. Other than that, i know Casserly will make us proud. We just gotta have faith. :thumbup

Blake
03-13-2005, 11:46 AM
Its hard to choose just one. It all depends on who falls to 13, and who doesnt.

Ill take Shawne Merriman for the block.

nunusguy
03-13-2005, 11:46 AM
Assuming for the sake of discussion in this thread that we don't trade either
up or down(and unlike our first 3 years, I think its very possible we could do either one this year), I think the WR available at 13 that we like the most will be Mark Clayton. I believe we'd take Spears or D.Johnson instead, but believe both (most certainly not Johnson) will be off the Board at 13.
Its partly wishful thinking on my part because I really like Clayton because he
is very talented but also psychologically he would be a good fit to be the #2 behind AJ.
I'm taking the team at its word when they say that they are gonna stay with
Seth Wand for atleast awhile. And I don't think they will use their top pick on
a DB or OLB this year.

Hottoddie
03-13-2005, 12:11 PM
Assuming for the sake of discussion in this thread that we don't trade either
up or down(and unlike our first 3 years, I think its very possible we could do either one this year), I think the WR available at 13 that we like the most will be Mark Clayton. I believe we'd take Spears or D.Johnson instead, but believe both (most certainly not Johnson) will be off the Board at 13.
Its partly wishful thinking on my part because I really like Clayton because he
is very talented but also psychologically he would be a good fit to be the #2 behind AJ.
I'm taking the team at its word when they say that they are gonna stay with
Seth Wand for atleast awhile. And I don't think they will use their top pick on
a DB or OLB this year.

I disagree about them not taking a DB or OLB. At this point, I believe they will take a DB with their 1st pick, assuming they don't trade down. However, if they go with a WR, don't be surprised if they take Troy Williamson.

DRIFTAWAY
03-13-2005, 01:00 PM
I think Clayton isnt worth going #13. I also believe that he wouldnt be a great fit as he lacks size, i'd rather go with williamson. Im starting to believe that with Mike Williams' stock rising, that braylon edwards will be available. Well first off if DJ is still available we jump all over him, If Braylon is available, we should jump over him. After that we could take Williamson, Thomas Davis, or Alex Barron.

edo783
03-13-2005, 01:26 PM
Barylon is most likely a top 5 pick and even if he slides, he would VERY likely be picked by the Vikes at 7. The odds of him sliding to 13 are probably about as good as me winning the powerball, waite, I don't like those odds. LOL

D-ReK
03-13-2005, 01:32 PM
I want to take a vote here.
Who thinks Spears, roth, pollack
or who think Williamson, Clayton or trade?

I want to hear opinoin and reasons

I think Williamson...

Spears won't get any PT...
Roth isn't worth pick 13...
Pollack isn't worth pick 13...
Williamson, I guess he'd be an ok pick...
Clayton isn't worth pick 13
Trading down seems to be the best idea...

*Circles Trade on answer sheet, turns in exam, and exits thread*

royce1054
03-13-2005, 01:43 PM
I agree that Spears wont get playing time. It doesnt seem smart to draft a DL after we resigned Payne $4 million contract and sit him on the bench. Walker has what 1 more year and SMith has a long term deal. There is no real for a DL on this team. To pay #13 money to some 1 that will sit doesnt make sense. We have more pressing needs at WR and OL. I would say CB but then we signed Sanders. I think that means he is gonna get his chance here. He will be a dime coner. Thats takes the need away from a 1st round pick to like a 3rd round pick. LB even if Sharper and Foreman are gone we have wong and greenwood on the inside, Babin and peek on the outside. We have an urgent need to find a player like but alot better than Bradford. I would like to see Williamson of South Carolina or Clayton of Oklahoma. On the mocks i have been Williamson has been being drafted #14 to Carolina. Clayton i have him going in the 20's. I think both are good topics. I admit before payne and deloach signed i though it was gonna be Spears. Afterwards i was thinking Carlos Rodgers then we signed Sanders. Now we are going to #3 need. WR and #4 OL

DRIFTAWAY
03-13-2005, 01:54 PM
Barylon is most likely a top 5 pick and even if he slides, he would VERY likely be picked by the Vikes at 7. LOL

All the teams that go before Minnesota are not in needs of a wr, so I think The vikes grab Mike Williams, and the next teams that would be interested in a wr would be perhaps dallas or san diego, and those two have the #11 and #12 picks, and if Dallas doesnt grab him with #11, i say we trade up to the #12 before San Diego and grab braylon. OR we could stand pat and take Williamson, but i'd hate to see us miss out on Edwards by a margin of 2 picks before us.

All of this above is assuming that tennessee doesnt take a wr at #6

Fiddy
03-13-2005, 01:58 PM
Spears won't get any PT...Spears may not start but he would get playing time. An ideal situation for a 3-4 d-line is to have 4 guys that you can rotate in and out so at the end of the game they are relatively fresh

royce1054
03-13-2005, 02:00 PM
but that makes no sense to draft a guy pay him more than your starters and not start him. There are more pressing needs for our #1 and maybe go 1st of 2 3rd rounds on a DL. You can get just as good of talent their.

Blake
03-13-2005, 02:02 PM
Spears may not start but he would get playing time. An ideal situation for a 3-4 d-line is to have 4 guys that you can rotate in and out so at the end of the game they are relatively fresh

That is why the texans made such a big deal about resigning Payne/Deloach/Sears. But I dont have any problem with adding a stud like Spears into the mix. The boy was made for the 3-4.

Fiddy
03-13-2005, 02:02 PM
but that makes no sense to draft a guy pay him more than your starters and sit him on the bench. There are more pressing needs for our #1 and maybe go 1st of 2 3rd rounds on a DL. You can get just as good of talent their.If the Texans drafted him, he wouldnt sit on the bench. Doesnt mean that he is not a starter that he wont get just as many plays as the starters. And would the 13th player selected in the draft be paid more than Smith and Walker are being paid???

royce1054
03-13-2005, 02:06 PM
i changed it to not startting.. The texans wont draft a player that will not start esp with the #13 pick. WR and OL are more of pressing needs than a #4 DL that isnt gonna be on the field. What about Slary Cap that is gonna hurt our #. We can get a perfectly good DL and in the 3rd or 4th round to be that #4 DL

royce1054
03-13-2005, 02:09 PM
And would the 13th player selected in the draft be paid more than Smith and Walker are being paid???

They do make too much money... It might not be as much as Walker or smith but its more than Payne i think. I might have smith worng i dont know his #'s but i am sure its alot

D-ReK
03-13-2005, 02:19 PM
The last DE picked at 13 was Ty Warren and he got 6 years 21 million, which is right at what Payne will be getting this year...That's a lot of money to tie up on the D-Line...

If we draft Spears, where does that leave Deloach and Sears? I know they're not the best D-Lineman in the world, but we just re-signed both of them, so I don't think it would be wise to sign them and not give them much PT...

With Spears, our D-Line would likely be Walker/Spears Payne/Ioane/Deloach and Smith/Deloach...Looks like Sears would be the odd man out...

royce1054
03-13-2005, 02:23 PM
With Spears, our D-Line would likely be Walker/Spears Payne/Ioane/Deloach and Smith/Deloach...Looks like Sears would be the odd man out...

Thats what i am saying it seems like it would be a waste for him to be odd man out. when they an get a DL in 3rd round pay him leauge minimum and raise him they way they want like a justin Tuck of Notre Dame. or something like that

nunusguy
03-13-2005, 03:16 PM
I think Clayton isnt worth going #13. I also believe that he wouldnt be a great fit as he lacks size, i'd rather go with williamson. Im starting to believe that with Mike Williams' stock rising, that braylon edwards will be available. Well first off if DJ is still available we jump all over him, If Braylon is available, we should jump over him.
Edwards and Williams are the top 2 rated WRs and deservedly so. But
Clayton has tremendous hands and runs very good routes and turned in very
quick 40 times in the Combine. Matter of fact, he was clocked at only 'bout half tenth of a second slower that Williamson, so the margin over a 40 is
maybe half of stride. So Williamson is faster that Clayton, but just barely.
I really think Williamson is overrated and not nearly the football player that the Sooner is, but a better Track guy - OK, so what.

Hottoddie
03-13-2005, 03:22 PM
Edwards and Williams are the top 2 rated WRs and deservedly so. But
Clayton has tremendous hands and runs very good routes and turned in very
quick 40 times in the Combine. Matter of fact, he was clocked at only 'bout half tenth of a second slower that Williamson, so the margin over a 40 is
maybe half of stride. So Williamson is faster that Clayton, but just barely.
I really think Williamson is overrated and not nearly the football player that the Sooner is, but a better Track guy - OK, so what.


How about Williamson being 6'1", while Clayton is only 5'10"?

DRIFTAWAY
03-13-2005, 03:54 PM
my point exactly. Why would we go for someone smaller and slower? we want a big physical reciever just like andre. Too many cb's in the nfl could manhandle clayton, while with all the new rules being enforced, Williamson can be a beast. I also believe Williamson is overrated, but thats what they said about a nice little cb out of the same college in last years draft.

LikeABoss
03-13-2005, 04:01 PM
How about Williamson being 6'1", while Clayton is only 5'10"?

I think Mark Clayton will be a Derrick Mason type reciever, especially if he goes to Baltimore and get a chance to learn from him.

I would love to have Troy Williamson though :thumbup

I guarantee you teams won't be able double team Andre no more with the speedy beast Troy Williamson on the other side :woot

They would be begging to get torched :cool:

royce1054
03-13-2005, 04:05 PM
I think we need a WR to stretch the field. Some one to create room for johnson and Gaffney. I think Williamson can do it.. I dont doubt that clayton can do it either. I would be happier with both but in my mock drafts i dont have clayton going til late teens or early 20's. I think williamson can go 13 easy.

Grid
03-13-2005, 04:08 PM
I think quality 3-4 Dlinemen can be had in the middle rounds. Same with Oline.

WR is NOT a pressing need for us, and I do not see us using our #1 on one. If Braylon or Williams fell to us it is definatly possible.. but we wont go for Williamson (he is a head case). And clayton is a reach at #13.

Spears.. he does not strike me as a stud. He strikes me as the same kind of player as Jerry DeLoach. Solid.. but not exceptional.


At the moment(hehe) my money is on Pollack. I think he IS worth the #13 pick.. especially in this draft because there are a few teams switching to a 3-4 and 3-4 tweeners are gonna be worth more than they were in previous drafts. He has the kind of personality we like.. and unlike most everyone else on this board.. I am not sure that Peek is starting quality. There are issues going on behind the scenes, otherwise he would have already been starting.

Pollack at #1
Anntaj Hawthorne or Luis Castillo at #2
Antonio Perkins and Jason Brown at #3


after that it is all gravy.

royce1054
03-13-2005, 04:13 PM
I think the Texans are gonna give Peek his shot. I think thats one reason sharper is gonna be traded or released. WR is a pressing need we have to replaces Bradford with some to make sure Johnson can get some single coverage and another target for carr.

Grid
03-13-2005, 04:22 PM
We have Gaffney, Armstrong, Starling and Sloan. One of those can take the #2 spot. or we can use more 3 WR sets.

Bradford didnt do a very good job of keeping the double teams off of AJ in the first place :P

we are not hurting in the WR department. It is not a pressing need.

royce1054
03-13-2005, 04:26 PM
its more of a need than DL that wont be on the field at the start of the game. The only other 1st round pick i can possibly think of is Barron of Florida state or Brown of Oklahoma, or barnes of washington

DRIFTAWAY
03-13-2005, 04:29 PM
its more of a need than DL that wont be on the field at the start of the game. The only other 1st round pick i can possibly think of is Barron of Florida state or Brown of Oklahoma, or barnes of washington

Dont forget Elton Brown of Virginia

royce1054
03-13-2005, 04:36 PM
if you think he will go that high.. I am sure barron will be gone so if texans take an O-line man it will be the 2nd of the draft

LikeABoss
03-13-2005, 04:45 PM
I don't see how David Pollack is not a reach at #13 :wacko:

The dude is another Jason Babin project.

He doesn't have any experience in pass coverage just like Babin when he came out of college :thumbdown

Hottoddie
03-13-2005, 04:50 PM
I also believe that the Texans will draft defense with the #13 pick. By the way, why hasn't Shawne Merriman been brought up in this thread? He'd be an ideal OLB in the 3-4.

As for WR, since we seem to be set with that position, I'd have to see about taking Roscoe Parrish in a later round. Assuming, of course, I can't get Williamson.

Parrish is an excellent return man & has more size than Moses does. In other words, he could play on the special teams & go in as a legitimate WR.

If we're just looking for a speed burner with decent hands at WR, a couple of other WR's to consider would be Courtney Roby (4.33 40 yard dash) & Jerome Mathis (4.28 40 yard dash). Roby has excellent hands, but Mathis will need some work in that department.

royce1054
03-13-2005, 04:56 PM
Parrish is too slow to stretch the field. If they are going DL that means Peek is gonna sit and they are gonna move whoever they pick to strong side LB. Thats a stretch i think the texans love Peek. I cant see any other reason they would draft a DL. WR we have to have a good #2. Johnson needs some extra room and we both Williamson and Johnson need their respect. OL is are other need. If they go Williamson I think Bass g from Michigan in 2nd. if they go Barron, brown, barnes they will go gibson or i cant think of the other name he quoted on the texans draft central page. A also thought CB before they signed Sanders. I thought Pac-man or Rodgers would be good. Glenn has what 1 more year. I think they decided we signed Sanders this is his chance and if it doesnt work next year a CB 1st round. Plus maybe the 3rd round Corner maybe Brown of Oregon

Hottoddie
03-13-2005, 05:28 PM
Parrish is too slow to stretch the field.


When did 4.43 become too slow? Braylon Edwards runs a 4.45. I guess he's too slow to stretch the field also.

Besides, I said we might want to look at taking him in a later round & use him as our return man/WR.

ROSCOE PARRISH (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/wr/roscoeparrish.html)

Strengths: Quick and very fast...An excellent punt returner...Very tough and plays bigger than he is...A threat to score every time he touches the ball...Shifty and very hard to tackle...Is a reliable target.

royce1054
03-13-2005, 05:32 PM
I think maybe an antonio perkins in the 3rd could be a good return man if moses doesnt come back.. I just did a mock and Williamson fits good at #13.

DRIFTAWAY
03-13-2005, 05:38 PM
We have Gaffney, Armstrong, Starling and Sloan. One of those can take the #2 spot

First off, Gaffney is doing just enough for the #3 spot, I dont think hes ready to become a starter or that he would draw much coverage away from dre. Sloan will never catch a ball as a texan,if he even enters a game as a texan wr. Starling is a very longshot at maybe a #4 spot,and Armstrong would be nice at #3. We still dont really have a solidified #2, and that is a pressing need in this draft.

Grid
03-13-2005, 05:42 PM
Williamson is a head case, we wont take him.

Pollack isnt a reach because he is no worse than anyone else projected at #13+, and would be more useful to us.

btw.. that little mock thing I did..

#1 Polack
#2 Castillo or Hawthorne
#3a Perkins
#3b Brown

id add

#4 Grigsby

that would be a nice draft.

grab Pouha in the 5th and you have have no players you reached for.. and filled all your needs.


(I think people are always crying for a WR every year cause they just cant bare the thought of taking someone in the first who isnt going to score touchdowns. Well the game is about more than just getting a TD)

royce1054
03-13-2005, 05:43 PM
First off, Gaffney is doing just enough for the #3 spot, I dont think hes ready to become a starter or that he would draw much coverage away from dre. Sloan will never catch a ball as a texan,if he even enters a game as a texan wr. Starling is a very longshot at maybe a #4 spot,and Armstrong would be nice at #3. We still dont really have a solidified #2, and that is a pressing need in this draft.

ok i am glad i am not only 1 who thinks that.

Hottoddie
03-13-2005, 06:00 PM
Williamson is a head case, we wont take him.


Hey Grid,

Where's this "he's a head case" coming from? Either I've had my head in the sand, or I've not read this any where. Give me some details.

royce1054
03-13-2005, 06:06 PM
i would like to see the article on that

Grid
03-13-2005, 08:45 PM
there is no article.. just what im hearing from "people in the know". I dunno if it is true or not, but im inclined to beleive it because I dont agree with us taking a WR in the 1st :).

I cant remember the exact details of it, and cant really commit any time to looking for the quotes right now cause im at my parents house for the weekend.

SO!... your choice whether you beleive it or not.. im going to :)

jr0ck
03-13-2005, 09:39 PM
But we have resigned the whole DL. And peek is a good contender for the last spot on the team

pollack would be drafted as a OLB. resigning the whole d-line further reinforces the fact we will use our defensive picks to add depth at LB and the secondary. i do think #13 is kinda high for david, but if we take him i won't argue...

LikeABoss
03-13-2005, 10:06 PM
Wouldn't really mattered if we are upset about the pick because there is nothing we can do about it. I just wouldn't believe we would be getting greatest value with him as the 13th pick though :(

royce1054
03-14-2005, 04:47 PM
I thinki sharper will be traded with 1st this year a 1st next year and a 2nd next year. Thats alot but i am sure carr would be much more happier knowing Pace is blocking for him than seth wand. This i think is alot better than us arguing about Spears who will be gone at 12 and Williamson who will prob be drafted by St. louis in this pick.... I will be crying tears of joy if this happens... I say bring it on

infantrycak
03-14-2005, 05:00 PM
I thinki sharper will be traded with 1st this year a 1st next year and a 2nd next year. Thats alot but i am sure carr would be much more happier knowing Pace is blocking for him than seth wand. This i think is alot better than us arguing about Spears who will be gone at 12 and Williamson who will prob be drafted by St. louis in this pick.... I will be crying tears of joy if this happens... I say bring it on

That's not happening. The Texans can get Pace for two 1st round picks under the franchise tag rules without the Rams' consent--certainly not going to pay more than that.

royce1054
03-14-2005, 05:07 PM
True but hey i am happy either way. I would be glad to see him here.

royce1054
03-14-2005, 08:05 PM
i cant see Davis ending up here in any senario. I can see a DL if Walker is released. I can see a LB maybe crowder or blackstock if Peek sits. I can see a CB if they think faggins isnt the man. I think texans are high on him. A WR is a near must it should be Williamson in the 1st round or Gibson or Brown in the 2nd round. If they go Williamson they will go OL in the 2nd round. If they go OL (Barron Flordia State) wand will sit and he will start at blindside T. Then in the 2nd they will go WR.

Big78
03-15-2005, 11:11 PM
dont forget that we had 2 stand out corners at one time. if we got a saftey to replace marcus coleman at saftey he could return to corner. we also desperatly need an OL man. some on before mentioned chris spencer and a good gaurd is important to our zone blocking scheme. with the line better that would give DD an easier time which would open up Carr and Andre in the passing game. so ther u have it OL and Safeties CANNOT be overlooked!!!

D-ReK
03-16-2005, 04:28 AM
dont forget that we had 2 stand out corners at one time. if we got a saftey to replace marcus coleman at saftey he could return to corner. we also desperatly need an OL man. some on before mentioned chris spencer and a good gaurd is important to our zone blocking scheme. with the line better that would give DD an easier time which would open up Carr and Andre in the passing game. so ther u have it OL and Safeties CANNOT be overlooked!!!

I can definitely understand wanting OL help, but why do you think we need another safety? Coleman played well last year and Earl will continue to improve with more experience, not to mention with more time to fully recover from his knee injury from college...

Throw-Deep
03-16-2005, 02:47 PM
Heath Miller 1st round pick. We need a good TE to help A.J. and Carr
Wr. 2nd round pick . Fast rec. to stretch the field.
ILB and DL 3rd round picks. Pick up McCune or Burnett @ Lb, Ellison, Mosley or
Bryant @DL.

TheOgre
03-16-2005, 03:54 PM
WR or bust!!!

WR (#2) is the only position on the team that doesn't appear to have a starter on the roster. We could upgrade in other areas but we have viable options for those positions. The only other positions IMO that you could justify with the #13 pick would be OLT or ROLB. Since Barron looks like a reach at #13, that leaves WR or ROLB as our likely #1 selection. I know we should go BPA, but lets be honest, we are going for BPA in a need position. That leaves WR or pass-rushing OLB as our likely picks. These two positions could have immediate impacts on our team.

Xman
03-16-2005, 06:50 PM
I follow the BPA system - but if there are different positions to choose from:

1st: If there is a stud, even at a position you don't really need, you go for them (except for QB) - like Benson or Williams are RBs that we don't need but could not pass on - but that probably won't happen this time. Once you get past them, and assuming the rest of top 11 are gone (by top 11, I mean Brown/ CWilliams /Benson /Edwards /MWilliams/DJ /Rolle/Jones /Merriman/the 2 qbs).
If there was a way to move up a few spots (that didn't cost too much) to get DJ or a Merriman - you gotta go for them - due to our needs. Edwards and WIlliams would also fill a huge hole.

I would try to deal our #13 and a 3rd for #9 - that way we get one of DJ/Merriman/Edwards/Williams. [this works under the NFL Draft Pick Value Chart as fair value]
If I couldn't get one of the top 11, I would trade down: #13 to Philly for 31 and 35 - [again this works under the NFL Draft Pick Value Chart as fair value]

If we could trade down 6-10 spots - then I would go for TE Miller. [maybe down to 19 in a deal with the Rams either giving us 19 and a 3rd and a 4th for #13 or their 1st and 2nd for our first and 3rd - both of these deals are fair value on the NFL Draft Pick Value Chart ]

royce1054
03-16-2005, 07:41 PM
I dont think a DL is smart at all in 1st round.... its waste of money. 3-4 rd is good time to get A DL. A RB we would have get rid of davis. I think he is are man plus too much money between the 2. OL makes since if Barron is there. A WR we need one to open the field up. CB, when we signed sanders... this is his chance. Plus this is a deep draft for CB. Anybody in top 4 rounds could play in this league.
I think 1st round Williamson
2nd round OL
3rd rd 1. DL/LB
2. CB/S

rest is up for grabs

DRIFTAWAY
03-16-2005, 08:00 PM
Trade Jamie Sharper,our #13 pick,4th rounder for either of the top 3 picks, than grab DJ. Than send a 2nd and 3rd rounder for a late first rounder and take baas. That way we still got rid of Sharper's contract and pick up DJ and Baas. Than using our 3rd round pick we can take a wr(this draft is very deep at this position.) Than on the 2nd day you can take your D-Line with your 5th pick, than pick up a cb with ur 6th pick(Cb isnt an absolutly pressing issue this draft, and this draft is deep with them anyways. And we prolly take a qb with our 7th round pick, just because Casserly always takes a qb

royce1054
03-17-2005, 01:24 PM
Trade Jamie Sharper,our #13 pick,4th rounder for either of the top 3 picks, than grab DJ. Than send a 2nd and 3rd rounder for a late first rounder and take baas. That way we still got rid of Sharper's contract and pick up DJ and Baas. Than using our 3rd round pick we can take a wr(this draft is very deep at this position.) Than on the 2nd day you can take your D-Line with your 5th pick, than pick up a cb with ur 6th pick(Cb isnt an absolutly pressing issue this draft, and this draft is deep with them anyways. And we prolly take a qb with our 7th round pick, just because Casserly always takes a qb

but you are not considering our biggest need a #2 WR. That has to come in one of the 1st rounds. I think an OL is also another need. If Barron is drafted i think Wand sits. I think the 2nd days picks will bulk up the CB,LB,DL,S,TE

Xman
03-17-2005, 07:52 PM
For us to trade up to the 3rd pick - it would take much more than Sharper, #13 and a 4th.

I like Sharper - but since we have told him to find a trade, we won't get much for him - in fact, most teams will expect us to cut him - so why should they give more than a 3rd round pick (which would be a lot considering the circumstances)

So, using the Draft Pick Value Chart;
#3 = 2200

the total value of ALL of our picks is only 2142.
(13 1150, 47 430, 73 225, 78 200, 108 78, 142 35, 173 23.2, 204 10.8)

So, if Sharper is worth a 3rd (approx 200 points), then we would have to give up Sharper, our first, our second and both thirds. NOT worth it.

If we trade up, it won't be far because we need depth more than we need one stud player.
I like the idea of dealing up to #9 (fair value means it would cost us #13 and #78) - then we get a one of the WRs(probably Williams since Edwards will probably go earlier) or Merriman (DJ will be gone).
Williams would be a great complement to AJ - true he is not a burner, but he would be able to outjump anyone in single coverage and would be money in the red zone.

big sarge
03-17-2005, 09:24 PM
I know this is a stupid question, but what day is the draft. I haven't been able to watch alot of games in the last few years so I have really lost touch, but hopefully I can get back into the groove. I really think the Texans are detined to win it all within the next 5 years. They are building like crazy. Although they have made some questionable moves they are on the right track. I mean you have David Carr and AJ, and DD on offense. Then you have D-Rob and Glenn along with some hard hitting guys on Defense. They seem really particular on certain things, and I like that. We have our speed guys, and we have are heavy hitters with a good mix of intelligence.

God!
Family!
Country!
Texans!!!

D-ReK
03-17-2005, 09:49 PM
I know this is a stupid question, but what day is the draft

The draft is April 23rd and 24th...37 days and counting...

royce1054
03-17-2005, 11:06 PM
we would have 2 move up to 7 to get Williams he wont go past #7 viks

outofhnd
03-17-2005, 11:08 PM
Ok here we go..
I dont think we take a number 2 reciever that high in the Draft period unless he is a Blue Chip (Braylon or Williams) No way! You only take a reciever like that when you want them to be your #1 guy. You dont draft a reciever just because he is a Burner.

I say we take DL - Yes I know we resigned all of these players, but it doesnt mean they wont be roster cuts come season opener time. I think DL is the position where we are the oldest and most vulnerable if a starter is injured. Sears is just not strong enough to be a force we need another Robaire Smith and that player is Spears to me. He is Big enough to play end plus he adds immediate quality depth to our D-Line and a much needed injection of youth.

Last year our most vulnerable position was CB not safety because Coleman could be moved to safety they realized they neede a shut down corner to replace him. Babin was a big time tweener who we thought would not last and probably would not have. With the loss of Posey the Linebacking Core lost a lot of speed. Peek with just a year under his belt was still to raw.

This year its D-Line the Oline has an excuse for this year that the zone blocking scheme threw them off. plus next year will be a ton (literally) of OL that will be coming out. So go DL address the #2 receiver in later rounds. Starling will probably be our return man if moses does not return.

So I vote Spears.

royce1054
03-17-2005, 11:45 PM
Spears will go to Chargers #12. A WR or OL makes so much more sense. Its a waste of money. It would hurt our CAP # and i cant see a billionaire doing something like that. Remember if you really wanna know who will be drafted think like the owner not like a fan... Do a list of positions and put their salaries next to it. If the draftee makes more than the imcumbent... it wont happen.

Xman
03-17-2005, 11:48 PM
If we take a DL - who goes to the bench? Robaire/Payne/Walker?
We have paid top dollar for all of these guys and a rookie, even picked at 13, should be stuck on the bench behind them.
Now, if we could trade on of those guys, then sure - but otherwise, it is not a need position.

We NEED the following:
2nd WR - none worthy on roster (I think 2 stud WRs makes the rest of our offense run much better)
OLT - Wand may be the guy; Drafting one does not seem to be the way the team is going because of the rumors they don't want to wait the 2 years it will take to develop)
TE - If Joppru doesn't come through, this area is hurting.
OLB - Babin is one, is Peek the other? If not, this is a big need.

after that - we need depth across the board on defense, at CB (to replace Glenn eventually), ILB (if Wong and the signee do not work out), OLB/DL.

So, I think we need to go BPA - which might be OLB (if merriman drops) (could be CB if Rolle drops or RB is Benson drops) - but I HOPE that a WR is what we get as the BAP, not a backup defensive lineman.

royce1054
03-17-2005, 11:56 PM
If we take a DL - who goes to the bench? Robaire/Payne/Walker?
We have paid top dollar for all of these guys and a rookie, even picked at 13, should be stuck on the bench behind them.
Now, if we could trade on of those guys, then sure - but otherwise, it is not a need position.

We NEED the following:
2nd WR - none worthy on roster (I think 2 stud WRs makes the rest of our offense run much better)
OLT - Wand may be the guy; Drafting one does not seem to be the way the team is going because of the rumors they don't want to wait the 2 years it will take to develop)
TE - If Joppru doesn't come through, this area is hurting.
OLB - Babin is one, is Peek the other? If not, this is a big need.

after that - we need depth across the board on defense, at CB (to replace Glenn eventually), ILB (if Wong and the signee do not work out), OLB/DL.

So, I think we need to go BPA - which might be OLB (if merriman drops) (could be CB if Rolle drops or RB is Benson drops) - but I HOPE that a WR is what we get as the BAP, not a backup defensive lineman.

I agree with majority of that. i dont know about merriman part i have been hearing about him going #3 and i have heard roomers at #9

Grid
03-18-2005, 12:22 AM
If we take a DL - who goes to the bench? Robaire/Payne/Walker?
We have paid top dollar for all of these guys and a rookie, even picked at 13, should be stuck on the bench behind them.
Now, if we could trade on of those guys, then sure - but otherwise, it is not a need position.

we are talking about 300+ pound players. watch any Texans game and you will notice Deloach and Ioane in on alot of snaps. Why is that? because these guys are huge and need breathers. a Rookie would get playing time like our other backups.. until he is ready to take on the "semi-fulltime" load of being the starter.

it is a big need because Payne and Walker are both old and injured.. and our backups are not full time starter material. We need youth on our Dline and we need it quickly.


2nd WR - none worthy on roster (I think 2 stud WRs makes the rest of our offense run much better)

and you are basing this one what? when have we ever had 2 "stud" WRs? Bradford was not a stud. We have 4 young and very talented players.. I think Armstrong OR Gaffney could handle the #2 spot. We do not need to use another high draft pick on our WRs.. especially when we need an infusion of youth at so many other positions.

TE - If Joppru doesn't come through, this area is hurting.

Playmaker TEs are not a necessity for every team. We have two WRs who are very good in redzone situations.. Gaffney and Armstrong. What we really need from a TE is blocking ability.. and the THREAT of catching the ball. We do not currently have that with Miller or Breunor.. we may have that with Joppru. if not.. then we can find a player like this in FA next year.. or possibly draft one in the mid rounds next year. This is a lousy TE crop, and I honestly wouldnt use a draft pick on one.


OLB - Babin is one, is Peek the other? If not, this is a big need.

I agree. and the best OLBs will be the ones in the first round. Pollack, Merriman, and Cody. I think we should grab Pollack.


I see our draft needs as this.

OLB (cause peek is questionable)

ILB (cause wong is expensive and old and wont be here next year probably)

DL (cause they are old and will be leaving soon)

OL (cause we lack depth and our starters are questionable.. they need competition)

CB (a replacement for glenn will be hard to find outside the first. Perkins in the third or fourth could play nickle or dime and may also be a good replacement for JJ Moses)

RB (someone big and durable. a between the tackles runner to compliment DD. Or possibly a speedy around the corners tackle to replace Hollings)

outofhnd
03-18-2005, 12:26 AM
I still say we don't draft a #1 receiver to make him the #2 guy in our offense now ill agree with the tight end weakness. But im not saying Spears would start ahead of them but he would probably do tons better than a deloach or C Sears. The only D lineman I like beyond our starters is Iaone. Deloach to me is a pure run stopper and not much more Sears has shown me nothing at all and other than that where do we go? I think we resigned these guys as a "just in case we don't get to draft spears" safety net. Defense first Offense in later rounds you can find Gem recievers in lower rounds we don't run a colts type offense here. I think we need a posession receiver and i think Gaffney is that reciever that gives you the marker. that is what we need we need a reciever to run the under routes and then when the coverage shifts to the posession guy you make em pay with AJ having to speed burners running track meets is not our offense would be cool but not the offense we run here. The recievers we draft need to have lots of smarts they need to be able to make the same reads on the move Carr does in the pocket. If we did draft WR i hope its Williams. but my money is if Barron is there we take him or if spears is there we take him.

royce1054
03-18-2005, 12:48 AM
I think outofhnd is more realistic than GRID.... We need 2 possibly 3 good WR in the NFL. We have A #1 in Johnson and a #3 in Gaffney. Now we need a #2... We need a stud to take coverage off of Johnson

A DL.... they do need breaks but no a 1st round.. Maybe a 3rd. I you can get a great DL in the 3rd. You can get A WR in the 2nd but WR is biggest need. My mock only 8 DE in 1st 2 rounds. 7 in the 1st. SO we can get a top 10 DE in 3rd. BETTER?

S... we did cut Brown the other day... i can see a #3 or #4 CB/S maybe even a 5th or 6th

LB atleast 1 will be drafted... not in the 1st 4 rounds now that chamberlin has been signed he is the depth

OL is other need i can see A #1 here. it can happen... I can also see an #2 OL.... Maybe Britt 6'7'' OT out of alabama.

TE maybe 7th round just to help out
no other positions are immediate needs.

outofhnd
03-18-2005, 01:46 AM
I think outofhnd is more realistic than GRID.... We need 2 possibly 3 good WR in the NFL. We have A #1 in Johnson and a #3 in Gaffney. Now we need a #2... We need a stud to take coverage off of Johnson

A DL.... they do need breaks but no a 1st round.. Maybe a 3rd. I you can get a great DL in the 3rd. You can get A WR in the 2nd but WR is biggest need. My mock only 8 DE in 1st 2 rounds. 7 in the 1st. SO we can get a top 10 DE in 3rd. BETTER?

S... we did cut Brown the other day... i can see a #3 or #4 CB/S maybe even a 5th or 6th

LB atleast 1 will be drafted... not in the 1st 4 rounds now that chamberlin has been signed he is the depth

OL is other need i can see A #1 here. it can happen... I can also see an #2 OL.... Maybe Britt 6'7'' OT out of alabama.

TE maybe 7th round just to help out
no other positions are immediate needs.

If we don't take defense with our first pick the only offensive position in round 1 would be Barron the tackle.

If Wand truly is not panning out they will not make the same mistake of drafting a tackle in later rounds and grooming him they will take thetop tier talent available.

I still say though we need to shore up the D line with top tier young talent not late round fatboys who take 2 - 3 years to develop. We Need young talent there the most now that the LB situation has more options. We do not get any push at the point of attack on passing downs from our line. We need to get lineman that take up blocks and free the outside pass rush.

threetoedpete
03-18-2005, 07:26 AM
If we don't take defense with our first pick the only offensive position in round 1 would be Barron the tackle.

If Wand truly is not panning out they will not make the same mistake of drafting a tackle in later rounds and grooming him they will take thetop tier talent available. ...... .


Again, I see no upside to this. Barron is going to be a fine pro. He has the potential to be great. But is he going to be a significant upgrade over what we have next season ? My opnion is no. I could be wrong. One of the reason's I do like Bass is because in worst case scenario Wand goes down, Pitts slides to LT and Bass would slide to left gaurd. Was Pitts great no. But he held his own. We need a stud there on that island no doubt. I just don't think Barron is gonna have the kind of success the Texan's are loooking for. The knock on him that I read is that he has great feet, but does not finish his run blocks. Sounds pretty much like what we already have there now. Why groom two mediocre guys ? See mocks saying we will do this.
But it makes no sence to me.


And for the record, TY CC for making the run at Pace. Good Job.


Bump. Dang it Grid quit doing that. We still have 35 days to go. You thread killer you. Great post.

threetoedpete
03-18-2005, 08:40 AM
Edwards and Williams are the top 2 rated WRs and deservedly so. But
Clayton has tremendous hands and runs very good routes and turned in very
quick 40 times in the Combine. Matter of fact, he was clocked at only 'bout half tenth of a second slower that Williamson, so the margin over a 40 is
maybe half of stride. So Williamson is faster that Clayton, but just barely.
I really think Williamson is overrated and not nearly the football player that the Sooner is, but a better Track guy - OK, so what.


Nice post. Agreed. My other point on Willimason is this, How many targets will the # 2 guy get ? What kind of production are you expecting next season from the #2 wide out ? How many targets ? I mean you can count on your hands the number of times we went vertical with the # 2 last year. I'd just as soon see Matt Jones and Starling rotating out there then spend a thirteen on Williamson. I mean if the goal is to stretch the Defense, they could accomplish that as effectively as what we did last year. We don't or can't go vertical. Which unfortunatly is Carr's greatest strength, accuracy in the vertical passing game. So if there is no threat there, why take the WR at 13 ? I don't believe that we will throw to the # 2 wr. Why would you expect Dungy,Fisher, Del Rio ect. to believe it ? We just don't do it, or can't do it.
Hopefully , someone (one of the coners ?) will fall through the draft and we will be sitting there at 13 and one of the clubs will make us a nice offer. Don't believe Pollack will make a very good OLB.I was wrong about Suggs though. I could be wrong about Pollock. He WILL have to have a great motor to overcome those little hands and short arms. Da Geeeorgia gator. Rahter have the kid from Iowa, Roth, if we're going to pick a large project at ROLB. Leverage, look it up. We missed the two stud nose tackles last year on the Babbin deal. I could live with Spears. I'd rather move down and pick up Bass and shore up the team with tallent. Bottom line is there are no Dominate LT's and we're picking OLB's for the 3-4 two rounds to early. JMHO.

cadahnic
03-18-2005, 08:56 AM
Williamson is dropping on boards because of his questionable route running and hands. I think his hype and speed are carrying him, but in this draft almost all the receivers have speed. I mean Jerome Mathis is the fastest receiver in the draft, but he is not getting this hype. Look for Roddy White to go before Williamson, but Williamson to go before Clayton based on hype.

The Preacher
03-18-2005, 09:26 AM
I agree with 3toe on Barron he'll probably be a fine pro but not immediately. With our #1 we need a difference maker. Another shutdown corner would open up all kinds of pass rushing schemes. The top two are likely gone by#13 but I really like Carlos Rogers. He's projected a little lower than our pick but having another guy like Dunta can you imagine? There are only so many great cb's around and though this draft is deep at corner only a few of these guys will shine. Rogers can fly, cover, tackle, he's going to make some team very happy. I am hardly sold on Williamson I think Clayton will be a much better pro. He is still fast at 4.4, super quick, great hands, precise routes, I am thinking Derrick Mason but better. Williamson reminds me too much of Donte Stallworth, a lot of speed but less intangibles. Both these guys are projected a little lower than our pick but both are simply solid players who would contribute immediately. I'd prefer a dominant D but we'll see.

beerlover
03-18-2005, 09:30 AM
I agree with 3toe on Barron he'll probably be a fine pro but not immediately. With our #1 we need a difference maker. Another shutdown corner would open up all kinds of pass rushing schemes. The top two are likely gone by#13 but I really like Carlos Rogers. He's projected a little lower than our pick but having another guy like Dunta can you imagine? There are only so many great cb's around and though this draft is deep at corner only a few of these guys will shine. Rogers can fly, cover, tackle, he's going to make some team very happy. I am hardly sold on Williamson I think Clayton will be a much better pro. He is still fast at 4.4, super quick, great hands, precise routes, I am thinking Derrick Mason but better. Williamson reminds me too much of Donte Stallworth, a lot of speed but less intangibles. Both these guys are projected a little lower than our pick but both are simply solid players who would contribute immediately. I'd prefer a dominant D but we'll see.

thats a damn fine post for your first one, welcome to the board Preacher :)

Xman
03-18-2005, 11:09 AM
I think WR is still the way to go.

The arguments about what happened last year (that we didn't go to our #2 guy) are based on decisions the coaches made to utilize the talent they had (or didn't have).
AJ established himself as a stud. Next year, everyone will double cover him (CB close and a safety deep) - especially if he is our only threat at WR. So, we need another threat to lineup on the other side of the field - That will force the defenses to make a decision: either separate the safeties (leaving the middle open - which would open passing and running lanes) or leave single coverage on the other WR (which they can do with impunity now because noone can burn them - change it to a Williams who would abuse single coverage with his size or a burner and the defense has to change).

DD is solid - but he is not a dominant RB that can have success against a defense that puts 8 in the box. Add another good WR (forcing the safeties out of the middle) and his value increases because he could take it to the house when he slips the LBs on the short screen or even a dive.

Simply put, right now our offense does not have enough fire power. Defenses will double AJ and put single coverage on our other WR(or WRs), leaving 8 men in the box to shut down the run. Which leaves us looking at a lot of 3 and outs.

cadahnic
03-18-2005, 11:21 AM
look for us to take a burner in the third or trade into the late second. There are alot of players with speed in this draft. We could go Jerome Mathis, or one of the Ok receivers.

royce1054
03-18-2005, 05:35 PM
there is good depth at WR in this draft. We cant be in Casserly and Capers head... Barron if he is there i have him at #10 to lions. but he could be good. I have heard about Williamson dropping. I have heard about his attitutde too. Maybe Clayton... They have to have that missing peice that was missing last year. Imagine if Bradford hadnt of underacheived. How many single coverages Johnson would of had. How many tackles he could of broken.. He was the best at yards after the catch. This could be a blessing in disguise. A #2 could do it... maybe a Brown or Gibson of the world but thats only gonna happen if Barron does go #10 to lions.