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View Full Version : Texans in Trouble? (bad article from some random jags fan-yawn)


MightyTExan
06-25-2010, 08:08 AM
http://blackandteal.com/2010/06/24/why-i-think-the-houston-texans-are-in-touble/
Some snippets:

The Houston Offense: Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson are both over the top good. Matt Schaub matured last year in my opinion into an elite quarterback. He could scramble better and find a deep receiver when you didn’t expect it. Andre Johnson scares every defensive coordinator. But then what? Where is the running game? Who is the second receiver? Who is Matt Schaub’s backup? Hello? Anyone out there?

If Matt Schaub was hit a lot, who is backing him up? Rex Grossman. I think I am more afraid of Vince Young than Rex Grossman. If Rex Grossman is on the field with no running attack and no offensive line, what real chance do the Texans have?

Unlike the Colts, the Texans have no Dallas Clark to help Matt Schuab out. Owen Daniels was hurt last year. He suffered a season ending ACL tear. This was unfortunate. Other than Andre Johnson, there is no one Matt Schaub can bail out to. No running game, no tight end, no second receiver.

:facepalm:

Section516
06-25-2010, 08:12 AM
http://blackandteal.com/2010/06/24/why-i-think-the-houston-texans-are-in-touble/
Some snippets:

The Houston Offense: Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson are both over the top good. Matt Schaub matured last year in my opinion into an elite quarterback. He could scramble better and find a deep receiver when you didn’t expect it. Andre Johnson scares every defensive coordinator. But then what? Where is the running game? Who is the second receiver? Who is Matt Schaub’s backup? Hello? Anyone out there?

If Matt Schaub was hit a lot, who is backing him up? Rex Grossman. I think I am more afraid of Vince Young than Rex Grossman. If Rex Grossman is on the field with no running attack and no offensive line, what real chance do the Texans have?

Unlike the Colts, the Texans have no Dallas Clark to help Matt Schuab out. Owen Daniels was hurt last year. He suffered a season ending ACL tear. This was unfortunate. Other than Andre Johnson, there is no one Matt Schaub can bail out to. No running game, no tight end, no second receiver.

:facepalm:

Must..Resist..Rubbernecking..Must..Not..Credit..Wi th..Real..Response...:backsout:

Texan_Bill
06-25-2010, 08:19 AM
Ummmmmm, :thinking: Grossman is no longer a Texan...


Author credibility = 0

Section516
06-25-2010, 08:24 AM
Ummmmmm, :thinking: Grossman is no longer a Texan...


Author credibility = 0

We all seem to believe the Jaguars have a tough schedule in 2010. We all look at the AFC South as a mountain maybe too high to climb. This is wrong thinking. The AFC South is ready to be taken by the Jaguars if they man up and play hard. The Colts are the champions, but vulnerable. We saw that in two close games last year. So let’s look at why Houston may not be very difficult to beat in the coming season

Author loses credibility there!

















Yes I realize they swept us last year and if we have event split we would of gone to the playoffs.

Thorn
06-25-2010, 08:40 AM
From the article:

So why are the Houston Texans in trouble? Here are the reasons:

1.They have no running game
2.They have an offensive line that allows Matt Schaub to be hit
3.They have no backup for Matt Schaub
4.They have one real offensive weapon
5.They don’t have a winners discipline as a team

Well, here's my opinion on his list, by the numbers.

1. We should this year.
2. The OL isn't as bad as some folks think.
3. For the time being, this one is true.
4. This one is complete bullshit wrong and totally laughable.
5. I'll give him this one as well.

So, as usual, another article that gets some thing right and others wrong. Nothing new to see here folks.......

b0ng
06-25-2010, 08:49 AM
The article is so bad that it's interesting. I'm guessing there are a few regulars here that will silently agree with the author

HuttoKarl
06-25-2010, 09:21 AM
I love lamp.

Hardcore Texan
06-25-2010, 09:28 AM
So Jacoby Jones, Steve Slaton, and Kevin Walter are just scrubs right?

Mix in Foster and Tate to the equation and I like the state of the offense.....as Lloyd Christmas might say: "I like it a lot".

Daniels got hurt before the halfway point in the season last year, meaning he has had a LOT of time to recover. He should be ready by the time the season rolls around. I sure hope he is mediocre in the exact same way this year!

Maybe we see some better things out of James Casey and Joel Dreesen.

Who knows what packages they'll design for Holliday as well.

Matt Schaub didn't get hit near as much last year as the two previous seasons. He also proved his toughness to gut it out when it counts. Our OL does need to gel and play better in short downs and distances.

I'll concede the point about Schaub not having a back up (also see 90% of the rest of the NFL), but it's Dan-O not sexy-small hands-Grossman.

Oh, btw....who's backing up Garrard these days....Luke-who's your father-McCown :ahhaha:

Game. Set. Match.

eriadoc
06-25-2010, 09:32 AM
Surprisingly, the author forgot to mention that Bob McNair was cheap.

:stirpot:

HouSportsWriter
06-25-2010, 09:47 AM
http://blackandteal.com/2010/06/24/why-i-think-the-houston-texans-are-in-touble/
Some snippets:

The Houston Offense: Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson are both over the top good. Matt Schaub matured last year in my opinion into an elite quarterback. He could scramble better and find a deep receiver when you didn’t expect it. Andre Johnson scares every defensive coordinator. But then what? Where is the running game? Who is the second receiver? Who is Matt Schaub’s backup? Hello? Anyone out there?

If Matt Schaub was hit a lot, who is backing him up? Rex Grossman. I think I am more afraid of Vince Young than Rex Grossman. If Rex Grossman is on the field with no running attack and no offensive line, what real chance do the Texans have

Unlike the Colts, the Texans have no Dallas Clark to help Matt Schuab out. Owen Daniels was hurt last year. He suffered a season ending ACL tear. This was unfortunate. Other than Andre Johnson, there is no one Matt Schaub can bail out to. No running game, no tight end, no second receiver.

:facepalm:

let me fix this for him -.-

The Houston Offense: Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson are both over the top good. Matt Schaub matured last year in my opinion into an elite quarterback. He could scramble better and find a deep receiver when you didn’t expect it. Andre Johnson scares every defensive coordinator. Jacoby Jones ,and his speed is a threat ,but what If Matt Schaub was hit a lot, who is backing him up? Dan Orlovsky. I think I am more afraid of Dan Orlovsky than Vince Young. If Dan Orlovsky is on the field with a solid running attack after the texans drafted Ben Tate and ok offensive line, what real chance do the Texans have? A good one

Unlike the Colts, the Texans have no Dallas Clark to help Matt Schuab out.Owen Daniels was hurt last year. He suffered a season ending ACL tear. This was unfortunate. Other than Andre Johnson, Steve Slaton,Arian Foster, Owen Danials James Casey , Jacoby Jones Kevin Walter. who else do we need




siab just kicked this guys azz in facts

Texans_Chick
06-25-2010, 09:49 AM
Couldn't...resist...correcting....alarmist.... title.

FIXED. :barman:

Big Lou
06-25-2010, 09:58 AM
So why are the Houston Texans in trouble? Here are the reasons:

1.They have no running game: Niether did the Colts but that got them to the SB
2.They have an offensive line that allows Matt Schaub to be hit: Believe that the Texans were pretty low on sacks allowed
3.They have no backup for Matt Schaub: Not many SB are won by back ups, although it has happened.
4.They have one real offensive weapon: So Andre Johnson throws and catches did he forget about ol' Matt, yeh OD was hurt but he may still be a great TE, and in case they missed KW isnt to shabby, and JJ is on the rise
5.They don’t have a winners discipline as a team: And the freagin Jags do?


All I could think of after the who's there number 2 "Hello" is that Bushs baked bean commercial where the bald guy is locked up in the pantry!!!!

HOU-TEX
06-25-2010, 10:08 AM
I can understand articles by opponent cities that might point out deficiencies of our team. Some might correct at times, but this cat sounds like a joke.

Thorn
06-25-2010, 10:10 AM
I can understand articles by opponent cities that might point out deficiencies of our team. Some might correct at times, but this cat sounds like a joke.

Anybody that writes that the Texans have only one real offensive weapon just doesn't know anything at all about the team.

Hagar
06-25-2010, 10:14 AM
Well, I guess I'm going to be heckled for this one but the article is right. Our biggest problems are in the trenches. We don't have adequate line play and it could come back to haunt us.

TEXANS84
06-25-2010, 10:28 AM
Name one Jaguars reciever.

End.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2010, 10:39 AM
Couldn't...resist...correcting....alarmist.... title.

FIXED. :barman:

Awesome!!! :thumbup

TheRealJoker
06-25-2010, 10:45 AM
I disagree with most of the article. Particularly the part where he trashes everyone on offense other than Schaub/AJ.

Unfortunately, this is the part that I agree with and the only part of the article he had to write:

"Just like the Colts are the champs and hard to beat, Houston is an Indianapolis wannabee. They can play football and our best effort is needed to beat them. But they are easier to beat than the Colts. The Colts don’t beat themselves, the Texans do."

That is really all that matters until we start making our own luck and finishing teams off.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2010, 10:51 AM
Name one Jaguars reciever.

End.

I seem to remember some pasty white, cokehead guy... :lol:

infantrycak
06-25-2010, 10:53 AM
Anybody that writes that the Texans have only one real offensive weapon just doesn't know anything at all about the team.

Yeah AJ's almost 1600 yds were great and he is the #1 WR in the NFL at this point but 1600 doesn't equal almost 4800. The other 3200 yds didn't appear magically on the stat sheet from pixie dust. Twelve teams last year didn't have 3200 yds of passing.

Texan_Bill
06-25-2010, 11:01 AM
Not to mention OD's "mediocre" 500 yards and 5 TD's through 7 1/2 games... :gun:

Texan4Ever
06-25-2010, 11:02 AM
Andre Johnson does the work of the entire Jags receiving corps plus more. Matt Schaub has finally gotten the hang of things and our defense is improving. Looks like the Jags should be worried about themselves rather then the Texans.

BIG TORO
06-25-2010, 11:23 AM
When I read this thread title, I thought some Texans players got in a fight at Treasures!

b0ng
06-25-2010, 11:37 AM
Name one Jaguars reciever.

End.

Mike Sims-Walker. He was actually pretty decent last year.

Well, I guess I'm going to be heckled for this one but the article is right. Our biggest problems are in the trenches. We don't have adequate line play and it could come back to haunt us.

The article is terrible and only makes a few salient points that could be construed as "not insane". Even then, work has been done in the offseason to address almost every "negative" that the author presents.

Nawzer
06-25-2010, 12:01 PM
The good thing is that when the Jaguars move to another city, this author won't have to worry about the Texans or the Jaguars anymore.

bckey
06-25-2010, 12:02 PM
Yeah AJ's almost 1600 yds were great and he is the #1 WR in the NFL at this point but 1600 doesn't equal almost 4800. The other 3200 yds didn't appear magically on the stat sheet from pixie dust. Twelve teams last year didn't have 3200 yds of passing.

The jags were close to being one of those 12 with 3597 yards passing with 15 tds and 10 int. Garrard isn't a very good qb. Compare that to Schaub's 4770 yards passing with 29 tds and 15 int. Where they beat us is in the rushing game but we should have that fixed this year.

bckey
06-25-2010, 12:05 PM
The good thing is that when the Jaguars move to another city, this author won't have to worry about the Texans or the Jaguars anymore.

slam dunk!:spot:


We all know how that feels.

thunderkyss
06-25-2010, 01:02 PM
Maybe we see some better things out of James Casey and Joel Dreesen.

Are we truly not happy with the progress of Dressen? I thought he did well, after OD went down. He looked rusty for a couple of games, and he doesn't have ODs upfield explosion, but he catches well out of the backfield (H-Back), or off the line, runs good routes, and gets open pretty consistently.

I think our 2 TE package sets will be hell, if the Defense can't reliably guess which TE is going to release.

Casey looks lilke a player as well. But I has some developing to do.

Who knows what packages they'll design for Holliday as well.

Matt Schaub didn't get hit near as much last year as the two previous seasons. He also proved his toughness to gut it out when it counts. Our OL does need to gel and play better in short downs and distances.

I'll concede the point about Schaub not having a back up (also see 90% of the rest of the NFL), but it's Dan-O not sexy-small hands-Grossman.

Oh, btw....who's backing up Garrard these days....Luke-who's your father-McCown :ahhaha:

Game. Set. Match.

That's what I'm talking about. They're worried about who our back-up QB is going to be, and we believe they should have concerns about their starting QB.

thunderkyss
06-25-2010, 01:09 PM
The jags were close to being one of those 12 with 3597 yards passing with 15 tds and 10 int. Garrard isn't a very good qb. Compare that to Schaub's 4770 yards passing with 29 tds and 15 int. Where they beat us is in the rushing game but we should have that fixed this year.

Garrard's most impressive quality, was that he took care of the ball very well. I don't know how he did last year, but I believe he had issues in 2008.

He's also pretty good, at keeping a play alive by scrambling and buying time, and extending drives, picking up 1st downs.

I agree, I wouldn't call him a "very good" QB, but he's still a gamer.

Hardcore Texan
06-25-2010, 01:12 PM
Are we truly not happy with the progress of Dressen? I thought he did well, after OD went down. He lucked rusty for a couple of games, and he doesn't have ODs upfield explosion, but he catches well out of the backfield, runs good routes, and gets open pretty consistently.

I think our 2 TE package sets will be hell, if the Defense can't reliably guess which TE is going to release.

Casey looks lilke a player as well. But I has some developing to do.


That's what I'm talking about. They're worried about who our back-up QB is going to be, and we believe they should have concerns about their starting QB.


I think Dreesen is solid, and definitely not much of a known quantity outside of Houston.

Mr teX
06-25-2010, 01:26 PM
http://blackandteal.com/2010/06/24/why-i-think-the-houston-texans-are-in-touble/
Some snippets:

The Houston Offense: Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson are both over the top good. Matt Schaub matured last year in my opinion into an elite quarterback. He could scramble better and find a deep receiver when you didn’t expect it. Andre Johnson scares every defensive coordinator. But then what? Where is the running game? Who is the second receiver? Who is Matt Schaub’s backup? Hello? Anyone out there?

If Matt Schaub was hit a lot, who is backing him up? Rex Grossman. I think I am more afraid of Vince Young than Rex Grossman. If Rex Grossman is on the field with no running attack and no offensive line, what real chance do the Texans have?

Unlike the Colts, the Texans have no Dallas Clark to help Matt Schuab out. Owen Daniels was hurt last year. He suffered a season ending ACL tear. This was unfortunate. Other than Andre Johnson, there is no one Matt Schaub can bail out to. No running game, no tight end, no second receiver.

:facepalm:

I'm not going to even address his "points" b/c it's obvious he knows nothing about our team. I will however speak on this dr. suess level writing. This crap reads like a 4th grader wrote it with all these short sentences. i guess i'll respond to him in a similar fashion.


Rex grossman is no longer a texan. This article is terrible. The author does not know what he is talking about.


Go take a high school composition class & learn how to put complex sentences together before you write anything else dummy!!!!!!

CloakNNNdagger
06-25-2010, 02:05 PM
I'm not going to even address his "points" b/c it's obvious he knows nothing about our team. I will however speak on this dr. suess level writing. This crap reads like a 4th grader wrote it with all these short sentences. i guess i'll respond to him in a similar fashion.


Rex grossman is no longer a texan. This article is terrible. The author does not know what he is talking about.


Go take a high school composition class & learn how to put complex sentences together before you write anything else dummy!!!!!!

Those mean teachers never recognized my disability-------- Terry O’Brien

http://tkmiller97.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/dunce.jpg

El Tejano
06-25-2010, 03:22 PM
Is it possible he wrote this before our 2nd game against Jville.

thunderkyss
06-25-2010, 03:59 PM
Is it possible he wrote this before our 2nd game against Jville.

There are several Texans fans who feel the same way, about the 2010 season. They are a little more informed than this guy, but they also believe we've got huge problems to overcome, and may not get it done in 2010 for one reason or another.

Grid
06-26-2010, 02:44 AM
We have one of (if not THE) best receiving corps in the NFL. The only one that gets much press though is Andre Johnson.

OD is definitely a beast and it hurt to lose him.. but we have talented TEs behind him as well.

Running game suffered last year.. we have put effort into improving it this year. We have talent there.

Whatever though...this guy doesnt deserve a response. The only thing he knows about the Texans is what he has seen on ESPN.

Carr Bombed
06-26-2010, 02:58 AM
We have one of (if not THE) best receiving corps in the NFL. The only one that gets much press though is Andre Johnson.

OD is definitely a beast and it hurt to lose him.. but we have talented TEs behind him as well.

Running game suffered last year.. we have put effort into improving it this year. We have talent there.

Whatever though...this guy doesn't deserve a response. The only thing he knows about the Texans is what he has seen on ESPN.

We do have one of the top receiver corps in the league, but if I had to be honest I'm not sure we have the top one in this division.

Bill Polian has done a remarkable job at finding Manning good receiving targets from nowhere and they might have more depth and be more loaded than we are. (and it really pains me to say that.....when the hell is their run going to come to a end? It's been a decade of straight dominance. Just once....ONCE! I'd like to see that team have a crappy year.)

infantrycak
06-26-2010, 09:17 AM
We do have one of the top receiver corps in the league, but if I had to be honest I'm not sure we have the top one in this division.

Bill Polian has done a remarkable job at finding Manning good receiving targets from nowhere and they might have more depth and be more loaded than we are. (and it really pains me to say that.....when the hell is their run going to come to a end? It's been a decade of straight dominance. Just once....ONCE! I'd like to see that team have a crappy year.)

Polian has done a great job. But I think he would trade his crew for ours straight up in a heartbeat. The Colts would have to intentionally throw games to lose if you were hearing Manning to AJ, Manning to OD, Manning to JJ, Manning to Walter for another 1st down all game long. No doubt Wayne and Clark are good but AJ and OD are better. Manning rather than the receivers is the beast that drives that system though.

Giant Tiger
06-26-2010, 09:47 AM
The good thing is that when the Jaguars move to another city, this author won't have to worry about the Texans or the Jaguars anymore.

That's why he wrote it IMO.

beerlover
06-26-2010, 10:56 AM
classic off-season feces perpetrated by desperate people in danger of losing an NFL team completely. can't really blame them, I feel neither happiness or sadness for their position.

HouSportsWriter
06-26-2010, 02:25 PM
http://tkmiller97.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/dunce.jpg

Hey it me! In a black and white picture!

Carr Bombed
06-26-2010, 02:38 PM
Polian has done a great job. But I think he would trade his crew for ours straight up in a heartbeat. The Colts would have to intentionally throw games to lose if you were hearing Manning to AJ, Manning to OD, Manning to JJ, Manning to Walter for another 1st down all game long. No doubt Wayne and Clark are good but AJ and OD are better. Manning rather than the receivers is the beast that drives that system though.

Andre Johnson is the only distinct advantage.......and Reggie Wayne isn't that far off production wise. Clark is better than Daniels, because he has healthy knees and even when Daniels is healthy that position was pretty much a wash. Then that's when their depth kicks in....yes Manning makes that system go (the same can be said about Matt Schaub though...since we've had a top offense since he's been here), but Garçon is good and had some amazing catches last year, and Collie is very talented also. They also have Anthony Gonzalez who was hurt last season. Basically they're deeper at the WR position.

infantrycak
06-26-2010, 05:23 PM
Andre Johnson is the only distinct advantage.......and Reggie Wayne isn't that far off production wise. Clark is better than Daniels, because he has healthy knees and even when Daniels is healthy that position was pretty much a wash. Then that's when their depth kicks in....yes Manning makes that system go (the same can be said about Matt Schaub though...since we've had a top offense since he's been here), but Garçon is good and had some amazing catches last year, and Collie is very talented also. They also have Anthony Gonzalez who was hurt last season. Basically they're deeper at the WR position.

Well we'll just agree to disagree then. Wayne is good but can't go to any team in the league and put up the same production. AJ is someone every team wants and Manning would have a giant woody to throw to. OD (when healthy) I consider a wash with Clark. Totally disagree on depth as I think JJ and Walter are considerably better than Collie and Gonzalez. Doesn't mean they are bad at all just I like ours better. And as a last bit, Slaton is a better receiving threat than Addai.

Indy Skinnz
06-26-2010, 09:10 PM
Polian has done a great job. But I think he would trade his crew for ours straight up in a heartbeat. The Colts would have to intentionally throw games to lose if you were hearing Manning to AJ, Manning to OD, Manning to JJ, Manning to Walter for another 1st down all game long. No doubt Wayne and Clark are good but AJ and OD are better. Manning rather than the receivers is the beast that drives that system though.

Sorry to insert myself into this conversation, but I think it is not an accurate statement to say they would trade Colts receivers straight up for the Texans'. AJ is clearly at the top of any league rankings for WR's but is Wayne really that far behind? Top 5 maybe. Top 10 - certainly. I think Manning is pretty well content throwing to Wayne, Clark, Gacon, Collie and Gonzalez.

Here is one NFL writer's opinion.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AoqUHMcFbvqsh11EkNJF_hM5nYcB?slug=jc-directsnap050710

Texan_Bill
06-26-2010, 09:23 PM
Sorry to insert myself into this conversation, but I think it is not an accurate statement to say they would trade Colts receivers straight up for the Texans'. AJ is clearly at the top of any league rankings for WR's but is Wayne really that far behind? Top 5 maybe. Top 10 - certainly. I think Manning is pretty well content throwing to Wayne, Clark, Gacon, Collie and Gonzalez.

Here is one NFL writer's opinion.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AoqUHMcFbvqsh11EkNJF_hM5nYcB?slug=jc-directsnap050710

Not sure what your point is... Is Matt Schaub any less satisfied throwing to AJ, OD, Kevin Walter, Jacoby Jones, Joel Dreessen???

thunderkyss
06-26-2010, 09:42 PM
Not sure what your point is... Is Matt Schaub any less satisfied throwing to AJ, OD, Kevin Walter, Jacoby Jones, Joel Dreessen???

I think he is countering 'cak's argument. He believes our WR corps is good, but he believes his is just as good, where infantrycak is saying ours is hands-down much better.

Carr Bombed
06-26-2010, 10:04 PM
Well we'll just agree to disagree then. Wayne is good but can't go to any team in the league and put up the same production. AJ is someone every team wants and Manning would have a giant woody to throw to. OD (when healthy) I consider a wash with Clark. Totally disagree on depth as I think JJ and Walter are considerably better than Collie and Gonzalez. Doesn't mean they are bad at all just I like ours better. And as a last bit, Slaton is a better receiving threat than Addai.

You didn't even mention Pierre Garçon....that's my point, from top to bottom they have better depth. Gonzalez is probably not even a starter or even the #3 guy anymore and at the #4 spot, he's alot better than David Anderson

Also how can you say JJ and Walter are "considerably better", Walter is solid, but he's already topped out potential wise and has reached his ceiling. He's "considerably better" at blocking, but as a receiver Collie and Garçon have already shown that they're just as good of pass catchers in their first year starting and since it was just their first year starting, one would assume that they're only going to improve. Jacoby Jones has the potential to be considerably better and become one of the best receivers in this division, but until he actually does it all we're talking about is potential.

I'm just trying to be as unbiased as I can, so as of right now I'll concede that on paper the Colts have the best receiving corps in this division, but things change very fast in the NFL and in 6 months Houston could have the best receiving corps in the NFL......if Jacoby Jones breaks out and lives up to his potential and starts beasting on people, Owen Daniels proves that he fully makes it back from his knee injury, or heck if this Dickerson kid we drafted turns out to be a 7th round steal ala Marques Colston.

Oh well, what does it matter anyways, because they're 1A and 1B when you're comparing them.... I mean in that article that the Colt fan posted I could easily make a case that Houston's receivers should be alot higher than #7 and above few of the teams listed above them. Arizona at #6, really? That receiving corp is about to drop like a rock with Lienart passing them the ball. Larry Fitz is about to find out why people always assumed he was the best receiver in the league and Andre was just 1B or the #2 guy when he has Matt "David Carr" Lienart passing him the ball. LOL

Texan_Bill
06-26-2010, 10:28 PM
I think he is countering 'cak's argument. He believes our WR corps is good, but he believes his is just as good, where infantrycak is saying ours is hands-down much better.

I hear ya bro!!! I'm not all that far removed from Cak though, in that ours is better.

thunderkyss
06-26-2010, 10:53 PM
Arizona at #6, really? That receiving corp is about to drop like a rock with Lienart passing them the ball.

I believe this is along the lines of infantrycak's point.

Wayne, Garcon, Collie... they look pretty damn good, because that's Peyton throwing the ball.

Schaub ain't no slouch, but he ain't Manning.

How do you think Wayne, Garcon, Collie would look, with Lienart... or Carr throwing them the ball?

I'm not saying either way, but I can't think of one receiver that went to Indy, and didn't look like an All-Pro.

JB
06-26-2010, 10:56 PM
I believe this is along the lines of infantrycak's point.

Wayne, Garcon, Collie... they look pretty damn good, because that's Peyton throwing the ball.

Schaub ain't no slouch, but he ain't Manning.

How do you think Wayne, Garcon, Collie would look, with Lienart... or Carr throwing them the ball?

I'm not saying either way, but I can't think of one receiver that went to Indy, and didn't look like an All-Pro.

If Manning had AJ, Walter & OD to throw to, he would probably be racking up 6000 yd seasons...

though I must admit at this time I would take Clark over OD...just because of the knee issues

Texan_Bill
06-26-2010, 11:27 PM
If Manning had AJ, Walter & OD to throw to, he would probably be racking up 6000 yd seasons...

though I must admit at this time I would take Clark over OD...just because of the knee issues

I wouldn't take Clark over OD.... Clark's first name is Dallas!..... And you know how I feel about "Dallas"..... :bat:


:D

Carr Bombed
06-26-2010, 11:28 PM
I believe this is along the lines of infantrycak's point.

Wayne, Garcon, Collie... they look pretty damn good, because that's Peyton throwing the ball.

Schaub ain't no slouch, but he ain't Manning.

How do you think Wayne, Garcon, Collie would look, with Lienart... or Carr throwing them the ball?

I'm not saying either way, but I can't think of one receiver that went to Indy, and didn't look like an All-Pro.

Schaub played like a elite QB last season and if he plays like that this year, everybody will have to put him right there with all the other top tier QBs. Schaub's receivers also benefit from his abilities just like Manning's WRs.

My argument was that the Colts are deeper at WR......and they are. Like I said in my first post on this subject. Andre Johnson is the only distinct advantage. I'm not saying I'd prefer their WR core, because I'd rather have Andre Johnson. You don't give up the best player at his position, but that doesn't change the fact that on paper right now, they have more depth.

JB
06-26-2010, 11:35 PM
I wouldn't take Clark over OD.... Clark's first name is Dallas!..... And you know how I feel about "Dallas"..... :bat:


:D

Yeah, but if he was on the Texans he would get a name change to"Scarborough"

thunderkyss
06-27-2010, 07:20 AM
Schaub played like a elite QB last season and if he plays like that this year, everybody will have to put him right there with all the other top tier QBs. Schaub's receivers also benefit from his abilities just like Manning's WRs.

My argument was that the Colts are deeper at WR......and they are.

Nothings changed, just because you said it again.

What you see as depth, others see as an extension of Mannings abilities, not the receivers.

Schaub, still not Manning.

I think it's a good argument, a conversation worth having... but we won't know, for a few years, when we'll have the benefit of hindsight.

Indy Skinnz
06-27-2010, 07:42 AM
I think he is countering 'cak's argument. He believes our WR corps is good, but he believes his is just as good, where infantrycak is saying ours is hands-down much better.

That is exactly what I was trying to say.

Indy Skinnz
06-27-2010, 07:53 AM
Not sure what your point is... Is Matt Schaub any less satisfied throwing to AJ, OD, Kevin Walter, Jacoby Jones, Joel Dreessen???

I am sure Schaub is content with the weapons that he has, and why wouldn't he be? Infantrycak can make a reasonable argument that Houston's receivers are better but so can anyone who think's Indy receivers are at the top of the list. That is a good message board debate. But saying that he thinks Polian would trade straight up for Houston's receivers now is a bit of a stretch.

b0ng
06-27-2010, 08:25 AM
I think a more reasonable assessment would be that if Polian could hand pick the WR corps that Manning could throw to, it would probably be a mixture of Houston and Indy receivers leaving the Jags and Titans completely out.

infantrycak
06-27-2010, 09:40 AM
I am sure Schaub is content with the weapons that he has, and why wouldn't he be? Infantrycak can make a reasonable argument that Houston's receivers are better but so can anyone who think's Indy receivers are at the top of the list. That is a good message board debate. But saying that he thinks Polian would trade straight up for Houston's receivers now is a bit of a stretch.

To be very clear I think Indy has an excellent set of receivers. Saying I like the Texans' set better does not mean Indy's are bad. Yes I do think Manning elevates his receivers and at the same time if Schaub continues to play as he did this past year the same will be said of him. For instance Schaub loves the middle of the field and so TE's playing with him and Kubiak are going to get good numbers if they have the talent. Overall I think we are looking at two of the best receiving corps in the league - I just like ours better. AJ is clearly THE beast. Walter is Mr. Dependable whether it be run blocking or getting first downs. JJ is Rocket Man ready to break one off at any moment. And then like I said before OD and Clark are neck a neck - both top 5 TE's who their QB's love.

Giant Tiger
06-27-2010, 09:56 AM
I believe this is along the lines of infantrycak's point.

Wayne, Garcon, Collie... they look pretty damn good, because that's Peyton throwing the ball.

Schaub ain't no slouch, but he ain't Manning.

How do you think Wayne, Garcon, Collie would look, with Lienart... or Carr throwing them the ball?

I'm not saying either way, but I can't think of one receiver that went to Indy, and didn't look like an All-Pro.

:goodpost: I haven't seen many Colts games, but from what I've seen of Collie, he missed too many passes.

Carr Bombed
06-27-2010, 10:35 AM
Nothings changed, just because you said it again.

What you see as depth, others see as an extension of Manning's abilities, not the receivers.

Schaub, still not Manning.

I think it's a good argument, a conversation worth having... but we won't know, for a few years, when we'll have the benefit of hindsight.

LOL, so the 4th receiver on the Colts depth chart is Anthony Gonzalez and you're going to sit there and say that David Anderson is better than Anthony Gonzalez.

Sorry, but that's just complete homerism. Also the "Manning makes his receivers better" argument doesn't fly either, when Schaub does the same thing. Whether people want to admit it or not, Schaub has elevated everyone's stats on this offense....from Andre Johnson to Owen Daniels and everyone in between.

Look up the stats between him and Manning... The guy was a elite quarterback last season and presided over the #1 offense in the entire league. Lets not act like this guy was a scrub just to prove a point here. :rolleyes: Matt Schaub is one of the most accurate QBs in the entire league....and in this system, his receivers benefit from his skills, just like Manning's receivers. Which is why I don't understand the argument that Manning just "makes them great".

If Manning made everyone so great, why haven't they been able to replace Tarik Glenn? or why haven't they been able to replace Edgerrin James? Just because Polian has been able to acquire receiving talent to put around Manning...we shouldn't just write it off as a product of Manning, because then we would have to say the same thing about Schaub.......and before you say Schaub isn't Manning.....he isn't (in the closing minutes of games or during crunch time) But he has been Manning every other time. the guy played like a top tier elite QB and if he does it again this year, I'm going to have to call him a top tier elite QB.....a top tier elite QB who helps pad the stats of some of his WRs....Just like Manning.

I think some of y'all are getting confused here...never did I ever say, that I'd take the Colts WR core over Houston's. I said Indy's was deeper and on paper and going by last year's production IT IS. They have a previous starter who's most likely going to be the 4th WR on the depth chart. When has David Anderson every been a consistent starter? Andre Johnson is > than Reggie Wayne, but that's when the clear cut advantages end.

infantrycak
06-27-2010, 10:51 AM
LOL, so the 4th receiver on the Colts depth chart is Anthony Gonzalez and you're going to sit there and say that David Anderson is better than Anthony Gonzalez.

Sorry, but that's just complete homerism.

No Anderson isn't better than Gonzalez. So what? The #4 WR doesn't decide the better receiving corps as a whole. When the top three WR's win and the TE ties, the #4 WR losing doesn't win the game for the other team and that has nothing to do with being a homer.

Carr Bombed
06-27-2010, 10:58 AM
No Anderson isn't better than Gonzalez. So what? The #4 WR doesn't decide the better receiving corps as a whole. When the top three WR's win and the TE ties, the #4 WR losing doesn't win the game for the other team and that has nothing to do with being a homer.

Umm.....how do the top 3 WRs "win"?

Andre beats Wayne, but other than that...there's no "win". Until Jacoby "proves it" (and I hope he does) we just can't act like he "magically put up 670+ receiving yards". Also Garçon and Collie have already matched Walter's production in their first season as starters (They're only going to get better, Kevin Walter is who he'll ever be....he isn't going to improve at this point.)

thunderkyss
06-27-2010, 11:15 AM
LOL, so the 4th receiver on the Colts depth chart is Anthony Gonzalez and you're going to sit there and say that David Anderson is better than Anthony Gonzalez.
I'm not saying anything. I haven't chosen a side. I don't know who has the better receiving corps.. either way, I'm betting it's pretty close.

I do believe Peytone is a bigger part of the success of his receivers, than Matt is of his.

Sorry, but that's just complete homerism. Also the "Manning makes his receivers better" argument doesn't fly either, when Schaub does the same thing. Whether people want to admit it or not, Schaub has elevated everyone's stats on this offense....from Andre Johnson to Owen Daniels and everyone in between.

I think it's too early to tell with Schaub. He's had a couple of great seasons, my opinion, 2008, I think it was the system, and the receivers that elevated his stats.

2009, I think Schaub has started to be more a part of the game, than a system QB. A lot of the stats, are definitely him. But to say he is playing at Mannings level is complete homerism.

Three QBs, if you had to chose one today, to put in the hall-of-fame, who would it be? Manning, Schaub, Farve...

Tough question, I know. But I know one guy who will get kicked off 99.997% of people's list almost immediately.

Look up the stats between him and Manning... The guy was a elite quarterback last season and presided over the #1 offense in the entire league. Lets not act like this guy was a scrub just to prove a point here. :rolleyes: Matt Schaub is one of the most accurate QBs in the entire league....and in this system, his receivers benefit from his skills, just like Manning's receivers. Which is why I don't understand the argument that Manning just "makes them great".

I'm not a hater, I have nothing against Matt Schaub, but if you're honest with yourself, he's still developing, and finding his game. That doesn't mean he is a scrub. But when David Carr & Sage Rosenfels look accurate & put up big yards, you've got to know the system is a big part of Matt's success.

Not saying it isn't a big part of Peyton's success, but he's such a big part of that system that it's all about Peyton now. Maybe one day, hopefully one day, it will be that way for Matt.

If Manning made everyone so great, why haven't they been able to replace Tarik Glenn? or why haven't they been able to replace Edgerrin James?

You're right, Manning's a scrub.



I think some of y'all are getting confused here...never did I ever say, that I'd take the Colts WR core over Houston's. I said Indy's was deeper and on paper and going by last year's production IT IS. They have a previous starter who's most likely going to be the 4th WR on the depth chart. When has David Anderson every been a consistent starter? Andre Johnson is > than Reggie Wayne, but that's when the clear cut advantages end.

Andre Davis was a previous starter..

I don't think anyone is confused. You're saying look at the stats... the other side of the argument is saying Manning clouds the stats.. you're saying Matt clouds the stats.. I'm saying Matt does not cancel Manning.

Well, maybe I'm confused now.

infantrycak
06-27-2010, 12:48 PM
Umm.....how do the top 3 WRs "win"?

Andre beats Wayne, but other than that...there's no "win". Until Jacoby "proves it" (and I hope he does) we just can't act like he "magically put up 670+ receiving yards". Also Garçon and Collie have already matched Walter's production in their first season as starters (They're only going to get better, Kevin Walter is who he'll ever be....he isn't going to improve at this point.)

Whatever. I explained how I think Walter and JJ are superior. And no Garcon and Collie have not matched Walter's production. Walter put up back to back seasons over over 800 yards without Schaub even being healthy. Neither of them has hit 800 yards. JJ has an explosiveness matched by very few in the league. That's fine if you disagree but I take Walter and JJ over them.

Joe Texan
06-27-2010, 02:21 PM
Why does this thread get a look mODS PLEASE REMOVE THREAD

jshabang
06-27-2010, 02:41 PM
No Anderson isn't better than Gonzalez. So what? The #4 WR doesn't decide the better receiving corps as a whole. When the top three WR's win and the TE ties, the #4 WR losing doesn't win the game for the other team and that has nothing to do with being a homer.

exactly....david anderson or Gonzalez are not going to decide a game one way or another in a crunchtime situation...if either is on the field at all in a pressure situation so depth at #4 receiver is def a weak arguement

but hey like everyone said they are both good receiving corps...but I personally love our group...and cant wait to see how this shakes out during TC

thunderkyss
06-27-2010, 05:50 PM
exactly....david anderson or Gonzalez are not going to decide a game one way or another in a crunchtime situation...

Whoa...

Anderson is the man, on third down. I remember hearing a stat on one of our last games, pretty much said, Schaub is looking for Anderson on third down... so DCs have started to treat DA... special.

I'll give you, that he's not Anthony Gonzales.. but who the Fock is Anthony Gonzales.

KNow what I'm say'n?

mootini
06-30-2010, 07:16 AM
Let me say, this article sucks! The Texans are in trouble "IF" Schuab goes down. You can say this about any NFL team. If the starting QB goes down, so does your chances of winning. The Texans do have a running game, which should be improved from last season. Face the facts, the AFC South Division has the hardest schedule...Texans #1. The Texans will have to run the ball more this season. This should help ease the pressure off Schaub and allow him to stay health. If Schaub stays injury free...Texans have a good chance of make some noise this season.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 10:13 AM
exactly....david anderson or Gonzalez are not going to decide a game one way or another in a crunchtime situation...if either is on the field at all in a pressure situation so depth at #4 receiver is def a weak arguement

Actually it does matter, because my original statement was "they are deeper". Hence the entire basis of my argument, but lets just disregard the Colts' depth at the position, because it doesn't swing in the Texans' favor at the moment.

Also depth is NEVER a weak argument. In the NFL you could be relying on your depth at certain positions before the season even starts.

Mr teX
06-30-2010, 10:31 AM
Gotta roll with CB on this one. I love our WR corps but at best all you can say is that both WR corps are even. But if you absolutely had to choose, i'd have to go with Indy b/c of the reason CB cited. They are deeper and honestly, they should be better this year with thier true #2 gonzalez back and Garcon emerging as a premier talent last year. & of course manning will be under center. Gives me headaches just thinking about the mismatches that's gonna create.

The only reason Reggie Wayne doesn't get his due as one of the top WR's is b/c he's got manning throwing to him. If he played anywhere else, he'd be thought of as 1 of a trio of guys who are argubably the best in the game.

JB
06-30-2010, 10:46 AM
Gotta roll with CB on this one. I love our WR corps but at best all you can say is that both WR corps are even. But if you absolutely had to choose, i'd have to go with Indy b/c of the reason CB cited. They are deeper and honestly, they should be better this year with thier true #2 gonzalez back and Garcon emerging as a premier talent last year. & of course manning will be under center. Gives me headaches just thinking about the mismatches that's gonna create.

The only reason Reggie Wayne doesn't get his due as one of the top WR's is b/c he's got manning throwing to him. If he played anywhere else, he'd be thought of as 1 of a trio of guys who are argubably the best in the game.


Really? You think if he had HWSNBN throwing to him he would be in the top 3? If he had Russell or Edwards or VY or Garrard throwing to him he would be in the top 3?

Nuts!!

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 10:52 AM
Really? You think if he had HWSNBN throwing to him he would be in the top 3? If he had Russell or Edwards or VY or Garrard throwing to him he would be in the top 3?

Nuts!!

Just for clarification, I never said I would take their's over ours. (I really think alot of people in this thread are getting confused about my argument) It's much easier to find another good receiver or two, than a premier talent like AJ. :)

I simply said they were deeper and currently they are. If Jones becomes a star, (and Dickerson pans out) that could easily change

Mr teX
06-30-2010, 11:03 AM
Really? You think if he had HWSNBN throwing to him he would be in the top 3? If he had Russell or Edwards or VY or Garrard throwing to him he would be in the top 3?

Nuts!!

Why not? AJ was at least thought of as a top 5 guy with DC throwing to him. What i'm really saying is that people tend to sell him short as a top tier WR just b/c manning is his qb & that if he played with a "lesser" qb he'd still be regarded as a top guy.

JB
06-30-2010, 11:11 AM
Why not? AJ was at least thought of as a top 5 guy with DC throwing to him. What i'm really saying is that people tend to sell him short as a top tier WR just b/c manning is his qb & that if he played with a "lesser" qb he'd still be regarded as a top guy.

Yes, I agree that he is a top 10 WR, but no way is he top 3 even with Manning throwing to him.

Mr teX
06-30-2010, 11:14 AM
Yes, I agree that he is a top 10 WR, but no way is he top 3 even with Manning throwing to him.

Wow....So outside of AJ & Fitz, who is CLEARLY better than Wayne @ wr?

JB
06-30-2010, 11:15 AM
Just for clarification, I never said I would take their's over ours. (I really think alot of people in this thread are getting confused about my argument) It's much easier to find another good receiver or two, than a premier talent like AJ. :)

I simply said they were deeper and currently they are. If Jones becomes a star, (and Dickerson pans out) that could easily change

No, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with it to a point. However, other than Wayne & Clark, Indy's group is one year wonders kinda like JJ. Gonzales has not proven anything yet, and Collie and Garcon are nice but need to continue to show it. Walter has shown what he has for a couple of years now, and I think he is much better in the blocking game than either of those two.

I think both groups are great, but I am happy with ours if OD comes back healthy.

JB
06-30-2010, 11:16 AM
Wow....So outside of AJ & Fitz, who is CLEARLY better than Wayne @ wr?

I'll start with Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss and Steve Smith

Mr teX
06-30-2010, 11:29 AM
I'll start with Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss and Steve Smith

you can't possibly put calvin johnson there with only 1 season over 1000 yards recieving...the kid's got the tools but he's not there yet.

Randy Moss plays when he wants too, is a terrible route runner & is only interested in catching the deep ball.

& Reggie Wayne's stats have been comparable or better than Steve Smith's for years now, which doesn't make him CLEARLY better.
I save you the time & say the same thing goes for Brandon Marshall as well.

To top it all off, Wayne's not a knucklehead like the last 3 i talked about.

BullNation4Life
06-30-2010, 11:54 AM
http://blackandteal.com/2010/06/24/why-i-think-the-houston-texans-are-in-touble/
Some snippets:

The Houston Offense: Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson are both over the top good. Matt Schaub matured last year in my opinion into an elite quarterback. He could scramble better and find a deep receiver when you didn’t expect it. Andre Johnson scares every defensive coordinator. But then what? Where is the running game? Who is the second receiver? Who is Matt Schaub’s backup? Hello? Anyone out there?

If Matt Schaub was hit a lot, who is backing him up? Rex Grossman. I think I am more afraid of Vince Young than Rex Grossman. If Rex Grossman is on the field with no running attack and no offensive line, what real chance do the Texans have?

Unlike the Colts, the Texans have no Dallas Clark to help Matt Schuab out. Owen Daniels was hurt last year. He suffered a season ending ACL tear. This was unfortunate. Other than Andre Johnson, there is no one Matt Schaub can bail out to. No running game, no tight end, no second receiver.

:facepalm:

http://www.stephencjensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/brick-loud-noises-b.jpg

gotta love a "sports journalist" that doesn't do his homework....

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 05:02 PM
No, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with it to a point. However, other than Wayne & Clark, Indy's group is one year wonders ....

And, we can speculate on any other team, you still wouldn't know their names.

The only reason Reggie Wayne doesn't get his due as one of the top WR's is b/c he's got manning throwing to him. If he played anywhere else, he'd be thought of as 1 of a trio of guys who are argubably the best in the game.

Did anyone have a problem putting Harrison in the top 5??

I didn't.

you can't possibly put calvin johnson there...

Randy Moss plays when he wants too...

...comparable or better than Steve Smith's

....Brandon Marshall as well.


Make any two of those receivers a Colts, and Reggie Wayne becomes a slot receiver. Marvin would still have started, and so would AJ or Fitz.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 05:17 PM
Wow....So outside of AJ & Fitz, who is CLEARLY better than Wayne @ wr?

Umm, Brandon Marshall for starters....to me he had even a more impressive season than Andre Johnson. For Christ's sake, the guy was able to put up 1,100 yards and 10 TDs with Kyle Orton throwing him the ball and while playing his first year in a new system.

JB
06-30-2010, 05:41 PM
I think Wayne is a good receiver. Maybe even top 5. But clearly not top 3 even with Manning throwing him the ball. And if I was starting a team and could pick any 5 receivers, I don't know that Wayne would make the list.

AJ
Fitz
Marshall
CJ
& probably Crabtree based on youth & potential

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 05:42 PM
Umm, Brandon Marshall for starters....to me he had even a more impressive season than Andre Johnson. For Christ's sake, the guy was able to put up 1,100 yards and 10 TDs with Kyle Orton throwing him the ball and while playing his first year in a new system.

Which, is like comparing Garcon & Collie to JJ and Walter.

Of course, if you think Schaub is as good as Peyton, I can see where you're coming from.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 05:47 PM
Which, is like comparing Garcon & Collie to JJ and Walter.

Of course, if you think Schaub is as good as Peyton, I can see where you're coming from.

LOL, Schaub is not Orton......why do people act like if you don't think Schaub is on Manning's EXACT level than Manning's receivers are getting this great advantage. Schaub isn't Manning, but last season he was pretty damn close.

Manning and Schaub were ALOT closer than people would like to admit last season. Difference is their team could make plays when it mattered. They didn't fumble games away, didn't blow ridiculous easy kicks, and didn't have stupid ass coaching decisions that cost them games.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 05:53 PM
I think Wayne is a good receiver. Maybe even top 5. But clearly not top 3 even with Manning throwing him the ball. And if I was starting a team and could pick any 5 receivers, I don't know that Wayne would make the list.

AJ
Fitz
Marshall
CJ
& probably Crabtree based on youth & potential

Or Roddy White before Crabtree....since they already have the QB in place. Roddy White did everything Reggie Wayne did, while Matt Ryan slipped a little. He's a name that goes overlooked when people talk about the best WRs in the game......the guy has averaged 1200+ yards and 8+ TDs a year for the past 3 seasons......with inconsistent QB play coming in all of those seasons (Ryan is still young and with a young QB, comes inconsistent play).

JB
06-30-2010, 06:07 PM
Or Roddy White before Crabtree....since they already have the QB in place. Roddy White did everything Reggie Wayne did, while Matt Ryan slipped a little. He's a name that goes overlooked when people talk about the best WRs in the game......the guy has averaged 1200+ yards and 8+ TDs a year for the past 3 seasons......with inconsistent QB play coming in all of those seasons (Ryan is still young and with a young QB, comes inconsistent play).

Yep. White certainly deserves strong consideration. In fact, yes I will replace Crabtree with White. White does not have the baggage that Crabs does.

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 06:19 PM
LOL, Schaub is not Orton......why do people act like if you don't think Schaub is on Manning's EXACT level than Manning's receivers are getting this great advantage.

I never said Schaub was Orton.

If you don't understand what we've been saying by now, especially when you've said the same thing (basically) twice...

Arizona at #6, really? That receiving corp is about to drop like a rock with Lienart passing them the ball....LOL

Umm, Brandon Marshall for starters....to me he had even a more impressive season than Andre Johnson. For Christ's sake, the guy was able to put up 1,100 yards and 10 TDs with Kyle Orton throwing him the ball and while playing his first year in a new system.


then you simply don't want to admit what you know.

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 06:28 PM
Or Roddy White before Crabtree....since they already have the QB in place. Roddy White did everything Reggie Wayne did, while Matt Ryan slipped a little. He's a name that goes overlooked when people talk about the best WRs in the game......the guy has averaged 1200+ yards and 8+ TDs a year for the past 3 seasons......with inconsistent QB play coming in all of those seasons (Ryan is still young and with a young QB, comes inconsistent play).

Make that 3 times.

I agree 100% with your analysis of Roddy White. Another receiver better (arguably) than Wayne... Imagine if Manning had Roddy White to throw to. Imagine if Schaub had Andre & White to throw to.

Now imagine Matt Ryan (or Matt Lienart if you wish) throwing to JJ, Walter, Anderson, Garcon, Gonzales, and/or Collie.

Now, I've never said we were deeper, or we weren't. All I've been saying, is that the argument that Manning makes those guys look better has merit, and carries more weight than the argument that Schaub makes his guys look better.

But after looking at those receivers the way the question is posed... I'm starting to lean towards Infantrycak, and it's pretty close to hands down, Texans receivers.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 06:31 PM
then you simply don't want to admit what you know.

And what's that.......please tell me?

gary
06-30-2010, 06:48 PM
The Colts have been there before and the Texans have not. experience wise the Colts have the edge.

JB
06-30-2010, 06:50 PM
Make that 3 times.

I agree 100% with your analysis of Roddy White. Another receiver better (arguably) than Wayne... Imagine if Manning had Roddy White to throw to. Imagine if Schaub had Andre & White to throw to.

Now imagine Matt Ryan (or Matt Lienart if you wish) throwing to JJ, Walter, Anderson, Garcon, Gonzales, and/or Collie.

Now, I've never said we were deeper, or we weren't. All I've been saying, is that the argument that Manning makes those guys look better has merit, and carries more weight than the argument that Schaub makes his guys look better.

But after looking at those receivers the way the question is posed... I'm starting to lean towards Infantrycak, and it's pretty close to hands down, Texans receivers.

TK, sometimes your posts really confuse me. I see you and CB pretty much saying the same thing; but you are wanting to argue about it. :confused:

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 07:41 PM
TK, sometimes your posts really confuse me. I see you and CB pretty much saying the same thing; but you are wanting to argue about it. :confused:

Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing as well, the QB makes a difference.

I think Manning makes a bigger difference than Schaub, he thinks Schaub makes as much (or pretty damn close) a difference as Manning.

The question though, is whose receiving corps is deeper.

Colts:
--Garcon(who I like, I think he's special), Collie, Garcia (personally, I don't see anyting special about these guys.

Texans:
--Walter (special) Anderson (not special, but niche) Jacoby Jones (special), Andre Davis...

I like Matt, and I think he's growing into an elite QB. But so far, I think our receivers (Mainly Andre, Walter, and OD) are helping Matt more than the other way around. Just like Brandon Marshall helped Orton, & Cutler. Calvin Johnson helped Staton, Rody White helping Ryan, Mason helping Flacco, etc..

ATXtexanfan
06-30-2010, 07:47 PM
Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing as well, the QB makes a difference.

I think Manning makes a bigger difference than Schaub, he thinks Schaub makes as much (or pretty damn close) a difference as Manning.

The question though, is whose receiving corps is deeper.

Colts:
--Garcon(who I like, I think he's special), Collie, Garcia (personally, I don't see anyting special about these guys.

Texans:
--Walter (special) Anderson (not special, but niche) Jacoby Jones (special), Andre Davis...

I like Matt, and I think he's growing into an elite QB. But so far, I think our receivers (Mainly Andre, Walter, and OD) are helping Matt more than the other way around. Just like Brandon Marshall helped Orton, & Cutler. Calvin Johnson helped Staton, Rody White helping Ryan, Mason helping Flacco, etc..

agree, just imagine andre johnson in a colts uni with peyton. AJ made the probowl with carr as his qb, peyton would put AJ in the greatest wr of all time category. surely schaub isn't in the probowl with peytons wrs.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 09:41 PM
Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing as well, the QB makes a difference.

I think Manning makes a bigger difference than Schaub, he thinks Schaub makes as much (or pretty damn close) a difference as Manning.

The question though, is whose receiving corps is deeper.

Colts:
--Garcon(who I like, I think he's special), Collie, Garcia (personally, I don't see anyting special about these guys.

Texans:
--Walter (special) Anderson (not special, but niche) Jacoby Jones (special), Andre Davis...

I like Matt, and I think he's growing into an elite QB. But so far, I think our receivers (Mainly Andre, Walter, and OD) are helping Matt more than the other way around. Just like Brandon Marshall helped Orton, & Cutler. Calvin Johnson helped Staton, Rody White helping Ryan, Mason helping Flacco, etc..

Matt Schaub ran his offensive system just as good as any and I mean ANY elite QB in the league ran his respective offensive system.

I don't think you're giving Schaub his due here.

Schaub's receivers didn't make him (that's just crazy).......yes Andre Johnson is great and he is a transcendent player, but Walter isn't, Jacoby isn't yet, Andre Davis wasn't when he had to come in for Johnson a couple of years ago and made those great plays....neither was Dreessen after Owen Daniels went out.

It's crazy to say that our receivers make Schaub and then quote posts that mention Orton, Lienart, or a two year (granted he's a good young player) Matt Ryan...like they're even remotely comparable to the caliber of player that Schaub was last season. :rolleyes: Which is what you were trying to say when you tried to use them against me. You don't become the #1 passing offense in the league with a average QB under center...you need a top notch QB and a top notch WR, Both the Colts AND Texans had that last year....so yes, Matt Schaub was a "top notch QB" last year. I've never questioned the guys ability, just his ability to stay healthy. When healthy Matt Schaub is now a top notch QB...right there with the elites in this league.

Schaub was right there with Manning, Brady, Rivers, and Rodgers last season. (For Christ's sake, the guy was the leading passer in the NFL) The only reason why he hasn't solidified his position is because people are waiting for him to do it again this season, but that still doesn't change the fact that he played at that level last year....and last year whether you're willing to admit it or not. Schaub's receivers benefited from his improvement AND play, not the other way around. So like I've said 3, now 4 times in this thread (which you keep bringing up)...both Schaub and Manning elevated the play of their receivers. Neither receiving corp was given this make believe "great advantage" because both receiving corps benefited from the play of their respective gun slingers.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 09:46 PM
agree, just imagine andre johnson in a colts uni with peyton. AJ made the probowl with carr as his qb, peyton would put AJ in the greatest wr of all time category. surely schaub isn't in the probowl with peytons wrs.

For the last time.......NOBODY is arguing that Andre Johnson is not a beast and NOBODY is arguing that he isn't the best WR in this division let alone league. Again why people are misinterpreting my argument. I've stated from jump street Andre Johnson is the best WR and why I wouldn't trade our WR corp.

Do y'all even understand what "WR depth" means....I mean honestly???

It means just because you have the best WR, that doesn't mean you have the deepest WR corp. If that was the case, the Texans have had the "deepest" WR corp the last 4 years.

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 10:32 PM
For the last time.......NOBODY is arguing that Andre Johnson is not a beast and NOBODY is arguing that he isn't the best WR in this division let alone league. Again why people are misinterpreting my argument. I've stated from jump street Andre Johnson is the best WR and why I wouldn't trade our WR corp.

Do y'all even understand what "WR depth" means....I mean honestly???

It means just because you have the best WR, that doesn't mean you have the deepest WR corp. If that was the case, the Texans have had the "deepest" WR corp the last 4 years.

I think you are the one misinterpreting what is being said. Peyton & AJ, or Matt & AJ... which do you think would make the more potent duo?

If anything happens on the Colts offense, it is because Peyton made it happen.

If anything happens on the Texans offense, it's because Schaub, AJ, OD, etc.. made it happen.

Matt is still getting better, last year, you could see where Matt wasn't going to let a play fail, or he was determined to make a play, or he was going to get the first down. In 2007, and 2008, I don't think he had that same resolve. If the play was there, he took it. If it wasn't he threw it away, and moved on.

Do not misunderstand that to mean that Matt did not put up elite numbers last year. But to say he played as well as Manning, Brees, or even Brady is laughable.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 10:55 PM
I think you are the one misinterpreting what is being said. Peyton & AJ, or Matt & AJ... which do you think would make the more potent duo?

If anything happens on the Colts offense, it is because Peyton made it happen.

If anything happens on the Texans offense, it's because Schaub, AJ, OD, etc.. made it happen.

Matt is still getting better, last year, you could see where Matt wasn't going to let a play fail, or he was determined to make a play, or he was going to get the first down. In 2007, and 2008, I don't think he had that same resolve. If the play was there, he took it. If it wasn't he threw it away, and moved on.

:rolleyes: More like the question is....Peyton & AJ + all the high jinx this team has had, as in, fumbles, missed kicks, and horribe coaching decisions, or Matt & what Manning had last year, which was a team that was used to and accomstimed to winning year in and year out...

Do not misunderstand that to mean that Matt did not put up elite numbers last year. But to say he played as well as Manning, Brees, or even Brady is laughable.

Really "laughable"....LMAO, show me where Brady played better???

LOL, you sir fall under the "the QB gets too much credit and takes too much blame".

But that was apparent with the If anything happens on the Colts offense, it is because Peyton made it happen.

If anything happens on the Texans offense, it's because Schaub, AJ, OD, etc.. made it happen.

Like Peyton's teammates makes absolutely NO plays for him....yes it was Peyton who willed Sage to Rosencopter, just like Schaub willed his RBs to fumble and his kicker to miss kicks this year :rolleyes: That team is used to winning, which is and was the difference between Schaub and Peyton's end results last season. Our team has out played their the last two season, but for what ever reason our team bites the bit and I hate to tell you this...it hasn't been Schaub.

Again like I said above...Schaub played like and was a "elite QB" last season...whether he proves consistency and shows he is this season is a moot point really..but he was last season. Which is why it's crazy to act like Manning's receivers had this over whelming advantage in their production.

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 10:55 PM
Matt Schaub ran his offensive system just as good as any and I mean ANY elite QB in the league ran his respective offensive system.

Of course my opinion doesn't carry the weight of yours, but I don't believe that to be the case. I don't believe it's a coincidence Matt also had the best receiver in the league either. They work hand in hand. You know this. You wouldn't put Wayne in the top 5, do you think Schaub would have thrown for 4770 yards with Wayne instead of AJ?

I think not.

I don't think you're giving Schaub his due here.

I think you're over-evaluating him. He makes the right read, he puts the ball where it needs to be.

Peyton, Brees, Brady do so much more.

Schaub's receivers didn't make him (that's just crazy).......

Show me where I said that?

yes Andre Johnson is great and he is a transcendent player, but Walter isn't, Jacoby isn't yet, Andre Davis wasn't when he had to come in for Johnson a couple of years ago and made those great plays....neither was Dreessen after Owen Daniels went out.

Dressen don't hold a candle to OD. OD gets the ball, then get's up field, so does AJ, so does JJ.

Matt has some influence in that, but a lot of it, is JJ, AJ, and OD. Walter is good about catching the ball in traffic or whatever. AJ, Walter, OD have very, very, very good hands. I don't think, and I never said these guys made Schaub. They made Schaub better, Schaub made them better.

Peyton made Garcon, Collie, and Garcia better. Only Garcon, IMHO helped manning look better.

It's crazy to say that our receivers make Schaub and then quote posts that mention Orton, Lienart, or a two year (granted he's a good young player) Matt Ryan...like they're even remotely comparable to the caliber of player that Schaub was last season. :rolleyes: Which is what you were trying to say when you tried to use them against me.

No, that is not what I am doing, "when I am trying to use them against you."
Brandon Marshall is awesome... would be better, with a better QB. Roddy White.. awesome-- would be better, with a better QB. AJ awesome, would not look so good with a worse QB. Wayne... pretty damn good... wouldn't look so good with a lesser QB.

You've seen it, you know it. You're the one brining up Marshall, White, and Fitz's inevitable drop in production because of the QB change. You saw Marshall with Cutler. You saw AJ with Carr, and You saw Peyton with Harrison. Take Colston out of the Game... Brees isn't all of a sudden Mortal, he's still a great QB. Take Randy out of New England, Brady is still capable of winning Super Bowls.

1 great + 1 average= Very good performance
1 average + 1 great= Very good performance
1 great + 1 great= record breaking performance

Don't make me break out the slide rule, I know you understand this.

Schaub was right there with Manning, Brady, Rivers, and Rodgers last season.

OMG... now Aaron Rodgers is elite?

Remember Cutler... Remember Grossman had a very good year... Remember Garcia, and Flutie... etc...

(For Christ's sake, the guy was the leading passer in the NFL) The only reason why he hasn't solidified his position is because people are waiting for him to do it again this season,

No, he's not elite, because elite means playing at a high level over a long period of time.

but that still doesn't change the fact that he played at that level last year....and last year whether you're willing to admit it or not.

It's not that I don't want to admit it, it's that I don't believe it. I watched him play, I didn't just look at the stats, and say, "Hey guys, look at this."

Schaub's receivers benefited from his improvement AND play, not the other way around.

I've got 4 years of evidence, saying that AJ was elite before Schaub ever started a complete year. What you got?

So like I've said 3, now 4 times in this thread (which you keep bringing up)...both Schaub and Manning elevated the play of their receivers. Neither receiving corp was given this make believe "great advantage" because both receiving corps benefited from the play of their respective gun slingers.

As long as you believe that Schaub is equal to Manning, you'll never agree with me.

& I'm fine with that.

But if you believe Manning is at least a fraction better than Schaub, wouldn't you agree that Mannings receivers benefitted a fraction more from their QB?

It's kind of like if 1+1=2, then 2-1=1.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 11:03 PM
Of course my opinion doesn't carry the weight of yours, but I don't believe that to be the case. I don't believe it's a coincidence Matt also had the best receiver in the league either. They work hand in hand. You know this. You wouldn't put Wayne in the top 5, do you think Schaub would have thrown for 4770 yards with Wayne instead of AJ?

I think not.

I think you're over-evaluating him. He makes the right read, he puts the ball where it needs to be.

Peyton, Brees, Brady do so much more.

Show me where I said that?

Dressen don't hold a candle to OD. OD gets the ball, then get's up field, so does AJ, so does JJ.

Matt has some influence in that, but a lot of it, is JJ, AJ, and OD. Walter is good about catching the ball in traffic or whatever. AJ, Walter, OD have very, very, very good hands. I don't think, and I never said these guys made Schaub. They made Schaub better, Schaub made them better.

Peyton made Garcon, Collie, and Garcia better. Only Garcon, IMHO helped manning look better.

No, that is not what I am doing, "when I am trying to use them against you."
Brandon Marshall is awesome... would be better, with a better QB. Roddy White.. awesome-- would be better, with a better QB. AJ awesome, would not look so good with a worse QB. Wayne... pretty damn good... wouldn't look so good with a lesser QB.

You've seen it, you know it. You're the one brining up Marshall, White, and Fitz's inevitable drop in production because of the QB change. You saw Marshall with Cutler. You saw AJ with Carr, and You saw Peyton with Harrison. Take Colston out of the Game... Brees isn't all of a sudden Mortal, he's still a great QB. Take Randy out of New England, Brady is still capable of winning Super Bowls.

1 great + 1 average= Very good performance
1 average + 1 great= Very good performance
1 great + 1 great= record breaking performance

Don't make me break out the slide rule, I know you understand this.

OMG... now Aaron Rodgers is elite?

Remember Cutler... Remember Grossman had a very good year... Remember Garcia, and Flutie... etc...

No, he's not elite, because elite means playing at a high level over a long period of time.

It's not that I don't want to admit it, it's that I don't believe it. I watched him play, I didn't just look at the stats, and say, "Hey guys, look at this."

I've got 4 years of evidence, saying that AJ was elite before Schaub ever started a complete year. What you got?


As long as you believe that Schaub is equal to Manning, you'll never agree with me.

& I'm fine with that.

But if you believe Manning is at least a fraction better than Schaub, wouldn't you agree that Mannings receivers benefitted a fraction more from their QB?

It's kind of like if 1+1=2, then 2-1=1.

I don't really respond to posts that breaks my quote into like 10 different quotes...too much work and not worth my time, because two posters will end up peppering eachother with scattered arguments. (I learned that lesson a long time ago) It's too much work to respond to, try shorting the response... or stop breaking a couple of points into a dozen of sentences.

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 11:06 PM
...yes it was Peyton who willed Sage to Rosencopter, just like Schaub willed his RBs to fumble and his kicker to miss kicks this year :rolleyes:

Don't try to change the subject. We're talking about how Matt Schaub played vs Peyton, Brady, and Brees. Rosenfels has nothing to do with this conversation, neither does Slaton, Brown, Moats, or Foster, or Kris Brown. Winning the games... nothing to do with this. You sir, are guilty of:
"the QB gets too much credit and takes too much blame".

If I judged QB play by looking at the stat sheets 5 months after the season was over, maybe I would agree that Schaub played as well as Brady, Brees, and Manning.

But that's not how I roll.

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 11:07 PM
I don't really respond to posts that breaks my quote into like 10 different quotes...too much work and not worth my time, because two posters will end up peppering eachother with scattered arguments. (I learned that lesson a long time ago) It's too much work to respond to, try shorting the response... or stop breaking a couple of points into a dozen of sentences.

No.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 11:12 PM
No.

No what???

Are you actually going to argue the points I made are you just going to

to

argue

everything

just

like

this???

:rolleyes:

Sorry, I don't even respond to that. Honestly I don't know how much time you spent on splitting all that up, but I didn't even read your post. I just count the # of times my post is split-quoted...if it reaches over 3...I skip ahead.

10 qoutes in one post though...sorry, that must've took some time. It leads nowhere. You're trying to start a crap load of arguments when there's really only a couple of disagreements. Try slimming them down if you want to carry on a debate...nobody wants to spend a hour going [qoute [/qoute, [qoute [/qoute,[qoute [/qoute,[qoute [/qoute,[qoute [/qoute,[qoute [/qoute,[qoute [/qoute,

thunderkyss
06-30-2010, 11:21 PM
No what???

Are you actually going to argue the points I made are you just going to



argue



just



this???

:rolleyes:

Sorry, I don't even respond to that crap. It leads nowhere. You're trying to start a crapload of arguments when there's really only a couple of disagreements.

I'm not going to change my style. I break your points, and answer each point. It's cleaner, and easier to follow.

I wasn't going to let you change the subject again, which is a very good tactic by the way when your arguments don't make sense. I'm using your arguments to make my argument.

Brandon Marshall would be better with a better QB.
Roddy White would be better with a better QB.
AJ is the best receiver in the league, bar none.
Wayne isn't even top 5.
Fitzgerald's numbers will go down with a QB change.

Jay Cutler looks like crap without a receiver to throw the ball to.

tell you what. I'll mispell a werd or too, so you'll have something else to distrakt the convorsation.

Carr Bombed
06-30-2010, 11:34 PM
I'm not going to change my style. I break your points, and answer each point. It's cleaner, and easier to follow.

LMAO, Except it's not....not when you totally demolished a post with 10 different qoutes in one post, I didn't even think that many qoutes was allowed in one post...

I wasn't going to let you change the subject again, which is a very good tactic by the way when your arguments don't make sense. I'm using your arguments to make my argument.

Show me where I changed the subject, besides your ridiculous "spamming quoting feature". and you aren't using my arguments to make a point"....because...

Brandon Marshall would be better with a better QB.
Roddy White would be better with a better QB.
AJ is the best receiver in the league, bar none.
Wayne isn't even top 5.
Fitzgerald's numbers will go down with a QB change.

Jay Cutler looks like crap without a receiver to throw the ball to.

tell you what. I'll mispell a werd or too, so you'll have something else to distrakt the convorsation.

Schaub WAS A PAR WITH MANNING LAST SEASON AND EVEN IS YOU BELIEVE HE WASN'T HE WAS ON PAR WITH EVERY OTHER "ELITE QB" IN THE LEAGUE

Now explain to me how Orton was on that level....how about Lienart...or Matt Ryan.

Now tell me how I've been "changing the subject" :rolleyes: You've been dodging my response through a couple of freaking pages now...while I've held the same exact argument. Schaub isn't Orton, he isn't Lienart, and isn't Ryan. What he was last season was a elite QB...but for some reason you can't recognize elite QB play...even if the guy lead the entire freaking league in passing and you hold his teammates shortcomings against him.


P.S.

see how I held myself to a 3 quote minimum.......my, how easy that is to follow and respond to :rolleyes:

A

hellava

lot

easier

and

less

time

consuming

to

respond

to

than

this...

b0ng
07-01-2010, 12:29 AM
Oh cool, posting ethics and caps locks bold. Can you both just stfu now and move on? Thanks in advance.

Carr Bombed
07-01-2010, 05:00 AM
Oh cool, posting ethics and caps locks bold. Can you both just stfu now and move on? Thanks in advance.

:lol:

Trust me, I would love nothing more :rolleyes:

gary
07-01-2010, 08:41 AM
Both WR corps and QB's do their job and get the job done.

HOU-TEX
07-01-2010, 09:42 AM
Told y'all this is the worst part of the off-season. Ugh, 4 more weeks until we get into some actual football. :gun:

Hardcore Texan
07-01-2010, 10:16 AM
Told y'all this is the worst part of the off-season. Ugh, 4 more weeks until we get into some actual football. :gun:

That's why I am having another kid, just to keep me distracted. :fingergun:

Hookem Horns
07-01-2010, 10:48 AM
The AFC South is ready to be taken by the Jaguars if they man up and play hard.

The only thing ready to be taken by the Jaguars is that new stadium in LA.
















Yes I realize they swept us last year and if we have event split we would of gone to the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

HOU-TEX
07-01-2010, 10:53 AM
That's why I am having another kid, just to keep me distracted. :fingergun:

Heh, heh, that's one way to go about it

Hardcore Texan
07-01-2010, 11:15 AM
Heh, heh, that's one way to go about it

It's a little extreme, but I am dedicated! :texflag:

Texas T
07-01-2010, 11:57 AM
It's a little extreme, but I am dedicated! :texflag:

A little....?

thunderkyss
07-01-2010, 12:18 PM
Schaub WAS A PAR WITH MANNING LAST SEASON AND EVEN IS YOU BELIEVE HE WASN'T HE WAS ON PAR WITH EVERY OTHER "ELITE QB" IN THE LEAGUE

Now explain to me how Orton was on that level....how about Lienart...or Matt Ryan.

...while I've held the same exact argument. Schaub isn't Orton, he isn't Lienart, and isn't Ryan. What he was last season was a elite QB...but for some reason you can't recognize elite QB play...even if the guy lead the entire freaking league in passing and you hold his teammates shortcomings against him.



My basic premise is that if you think Brandon Marshall would have had better stats, with a better QB, then I think it should be safe to say that you believe the QBs performance affects the Receivers Stats.

If you think Larry Fitzgerald's stats are going to suffer, because he's going to have less of a QB throwing him the ball, then I believe it is safe to say that a QBs performance affects the receivers stats.

If you think Brandon Marshall accumulated 1200 receiving yards in spite of Kyle Orton, then it only makes sense, that the receivers performance also affects the QBs stats.

Would Kyle Orton's stats have gone down by 1200 yards if Brandon Marshall was not a Bronco in 2009? Probably not. But they definitely would have gone down.

Using that same logic, I am not saying that Matt performed like Kyle Orton, or Matt Lienart; but using that same logic, I think Matt's receivers helped him more than Peyton's receivers helped Peyton.

That's not to say the receivers made Matt Schaub. If Peyton Manning had our receivers, his numbers would have been higher.

I completely agree, that Matt's stats are on Par with Peyton's... I disagree, that he performed as well... I disagree, that Matt is elite.

Hardcore Texan
07-01-2010, 12:50 PM
A little....?

They don't call me Hardcore for nuthin'.

Hey, look at this way, Texans nation is about to get another fan. :texflag:

Mr teX
07-01-2010, 01:15 PM
I think Wayne is a good receiver. Maybe even top 5. But clearly not top 3 even with Manning throwing him the ball. And if I was starting a team and could pick any 5 receivers, I don't know that Wayne would make the list.

AJ
Fitz
Marshall
CJ
& probably Crabtree based on youth & potential

Crabtree....really? LOL, you dudes are ridiculous in here. All the guys ya'll have named are either too young & don't have enough under their belt or aren't clearly better than Wayne. based on your rationale, i guess we've got to include Sidney Rice as a top WR based on the 1 season he had last year with Favre.

For 1, none of those dudes have had a 1500 yd season, except for the 2 guys clearly above Wayne.

2, Stat wise Wayne is closer to AJ & Fitz over the last 3-4 seasons & career than any of these other dudes. For all the marshall hype, show me something he's done that Wayne hasn't done twice in the last 3-4 years; even when he did have a better qb than orton. Over 100 recs? check. 1300 yd+ seasons? check. double digit TDs? check. That ain't all Manning. The same for all these other dudes you guys have named.

He's about as automatic as they come with the hands, is probably the best route runner in the league, (a very underrated skill for WR's to possess) and has the #'s to back it up.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

JB
07-01-2010, 01:18 PM
Crabtree? really? LOL, you dudes are ridiculous in here. All the guys ya'll have named are either too young & don't have enough under their belt or aren't clearly better than Wayne. based on your rationale, i guess we've got to include Sidney Rice as a top WR based on the 1 season he had last year with Favre.

For 1, none of those dudes have had a 1500 yd season, except for the 2 guys clearly above Wayne.

2, Stat wise Wayne is closer to AJ & Fitz over the last 3-4 seasons & career, than any of these other dudes. For all the marshall hype, show me something he's done that Wayne hasn't done twice in the last 3-4 years; even when he did have a better qb than orton. Over 100 recs? check. 1300 yd+ seasons? check. double digit TDs? check. The same for all these other dudes you guys have named.

He's about as automatic as they come with the hands, is probably the best route runner in the league, (a very underrated skill for WR's to possess) and has the #'s to back it up.


Dude, if you want to put Wayne on a pedestal, you go right ahead. In my opinion the guy is not a top 3 WR as of now. Maybe not top 5.

But I am not saying he is a bad WR. I'm just not as high on him as you apparantly are.

Texecutioner
07-01-2010, 01:45 PM
I'm not going to change my style. I break your points, and answer each point. It's cleaner, and easier to follow.

I wasn't going to let you change the subject again, which is a very good tactic by the way when your arguments don't make sense. I'm using your arguments to make my argument.

Brandon Marshall would be better with a better QB.
Roddy White would be better with a better QB.
AJ is the best receiver in the league, bar none.
Wayne isn't even top 5.
Fitzgerald's numbers will go down with a QB change.

Jay Cutler looks like crap without a receiver to throw the ball to.

tell you what. I'll mispell a werd or too, so you'll have something else to distrakt the convorsation.

Man, there are so many incorrect statements in this post, that I just don't know where to begin.

You may want to check Fitzgerald's numbers. They've been pretty damn good since before Warner ever took a snap over there.

Wayne has been a beast in the NFL for years. He is easily in the discussion for being a top 5 WR.

And you clearly haven't paid much attention to Roddy White's career, because he was in the league for several years with a different QB in Vick and it wasn't until Matt Ryan got there that White had a great numbers. He started off the year right before Ryan towards the end of the season, but when Ryan got there he had two full consistent years of great play.

And of course Marshall would be better with a better QB, but that's the same with every WR in the entire league.

gary
07-01-2010, 01:53 PM
I'll throw Dickerson in there while we're at it.

thunderkyss
07-01-2010, 02:00 PM
Man, there are so many incorrect statements in this post, that I just don't know where to begin.

You may want to check Fitzgerald's numbers. They've been pretty damn good since before Warner ever took a snap over there.

Wayne has been a beast in the NFL for years. He is easily in the discussion for being a top 5 WR.

And you clearly haven't paid much attention to Roddy White's career, because he was in the league for several years with a different QB in Vick and it wasn't until Matt Ryan got there that White had a great numbers. He started off the year right before Ryan towards the end of the season, but when Ryan got there he had two full consistent years of great play.

And of course Marshall would be better with a better QB, but that's the same with every WR in the entire league.

I was actually paraphrasing someone else on all those points.

Carr Bombed
07-01-2010, 05:09 PM
Man, there are so many incorrect statements in this post, that I just don't know where to begin.

You may want to check Fitzgerald's numbers. They've been pretty damn good since before Warner ever took a snap over there.

Wayne has been a beast in the NFL for years. He is easily in the discussion for being a top 5 WR.

And you clearly haven't paid much attention to Roddy White's career, because he was in the league for several years with a different QB in Vick and it wasn't until Matt Ryan got there that White had a great numbers. He started off the year right before Ryan towards the end of the season, but when Ryan got there he had two full consistent years of great play.

And of course Marshall would be better with a better QB, but that's the same with every WR in the entire league.

That's not really true....Roddy White had a 1,200 yard receiving season before Matt ever got there....and that was with 3 different starting QBs. Basically the minute Vick left (who never really looked past his TEs) Roddy's career took off.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying White is better than Wayne. I just threw his name out there when people were listing top WRs, because he often goes overlooked. He's been very productive the last 3 seasons...one without Ryan. Basically I was just giving him props.

Carr Bombed
07-01-2010, 05:17 PM
My basic premise is that if you think Brandon Marshall would have had better stats, with a better QB, then I think it should be safe to say that you believe the QBs performance affects the Receivers Stats.

If you think Larry Fitzgerald's stats are going to suffer, because he's going to have less of a QB throwing him the ball, then I believe it is safe to say that a QBs performance affects the receivers stats.

If you think Brandon Marshall accumulated 1200 receiving yards in spite of Kyle Orton, then it only makes sense, that the receivers performance also affects the QBs stats.

Would Kyle Orton's stats have gone down by 1200 yards if Brandon Marshall was not a Bronco in 2009? Probably not. But they definitely would have gone down.

Using that same logic, I am not saying that Matt performed like Kyle Orton, or Matt Lienart; but using that same logic, I think Matt's receivers helped him more than Peyton's receivers helped Peyton.

That's not to say the receivers made Matt Schaub. If Peyton Manning had our receivers, his numbers would have been higher.

I completely agree, that Matt's stats are on Par with Peyton's... I disagree, that he performed as well... I disagree, that Matt is elite.


And the basic premise of my argument is that Matt Schaub ran this system just as good as Peyton ran his....so no, there's not a whole lot of room for improvement in production. I just found it absolutely silly that you're trying to throw Matt Lienart and Kyle Orton in my face like their remotely comparable to Matt Schaub. You know what was comparable last season? Matt Schaub and Peyton Manning's production. I also highly doubt Manning's #s would be alot "higher" with our receivers. Matt Schaub had the 6th most productive passing season in league history.. I also said last season he played at a "elite level" and he did, that doesn't mean he's "elite". If he does it this season though...he will be.

Funny thing about being "elite". If your team doesn't pretty much lead the entire league in RB fumbles and missed kicks, all of a sudden you're like a 11-5 or 12-4 team with possibly 2 wins OVER Manning and you're considered "elite".

We can go back in forth all day on this, lets just agree to disagree and move on.

thunderkyss
07-01-2010, 05:57 PM
I just found it absolutely silly that you're trying to throw Matt Lienart and Kyle Orton in my face like their remotely comparable to Matt Schaub.

Show me where I've said Lienart & Orton are comparable to Schaub. If you can't, please stop saying I said something I did not.

This conversation started, a long, long time ago talking about the depth of the Colts' WRs, vs the depth of the Texans' receivers.

Most everyone in this thread (although it has turned into just me lately) holds the opinion that Peyton makes Garcon, Collie, and Garcia look better than they truly are.

Arizona at #6, really? That receiving corp is about to drop like a rock with Lienart passing them the ball.

I believe this is along the lines of infantrycak's point.

Wayne, Garcon, Collie... they look pretty damn good, because that's Peyton throwing the ball.

Schaub ain't no slouch, but he ain't Manning.


You brought Lienart (& Orton) into this conversation, not me. & I'm not, and have not said anything to the effect, that Lienart or Orton is any where near the same class of QB as Schaub.

All my quotes, of you posting your thoughts on the effects of these other QBs will have on those receivers was just to highlight the point, that the QBs can make a difference in "how the receiver looks"

Which is what we're talking about. Garcon, Collie, and Gonzales is not better depth than Walter, JJ, Davis, and Anderson.

Peyton may make it look like they are, but they are not.

Carr Bombed
07-01-2010, 06:40 PM
Show me where I've said Lienart & Orton are comparable to Schaub. If you can't, please stop saying I said something I did not.

This conversation started, a long, long time ago talking about the depth of the Colts' WRs, vs the depth of the Texans' receivers.

Most everyone in this thread (although it has turned into just me lately) holds the opinion that Peyton makes Garcon, Collie, and Garcia look better than they truly are.



You brought Lienart (& Orton) into this conversation, not me. & I'm not, and have not said anything to the effect, that Lienart or Orton is any where near the same class of QB as Schaub.

All my quotes, of you posting your thoughts on the effects of these other QBs will have on those receivers was just to highlight the point, that the QBs can make a difference in "how the receiver looks"

Which is what we're talking about. Garcon, Collie, and Gonzales is not better depth than Walter, JJ, Davis, and Anderson.

Peyton may make it look like they are, but they are not.


I brought Lienart and Orton into the conversation.....because they are crappy QBs. What part of that line of thinking is so hard to follow? Seriously?

You're tying to act like Manning is the only QB who makes his receivers better in this division, like Schaub doesn't :rolleyes:

P.S.

Collie and Garcon ARE BETTER DEPTH......until Jacoby Jones can prove he can be a consistent player, they have better depth at the position.

JB
07-01-2010, 07:13 PM
I brought Lienart and Orton into the conversation.....because they are crappy QBs. What part of that line of thinking is so hard to follow? Seriously?

You're tying to act like Manning is the only QB who makes his receivers better in this division, like Schaub doesn't :rolleyes:

P.S.

Collie and Garcon ARE BETTER DEPTH......until Jacoby Jones can prove he can be a consistent player, they have better depth at the position.


Sorry CB, but neither Collie or Garcon have proven anything yet.

Carr Bombed
07-01-2010, 07:17 PM
Sorry CB, but neither Collie or Garcon have proven anything yet.

Did you watch the Jets playoff game?

Collie and Garçon can play in this league.....and it's not like Jacoby Jones has proven as much as they have.

JB
07-01-2010, 07:24 PM
Did you watch the Jets playoff game?

Collie and Garçon can play in this league.....and it's not like Jacoby Jones has proven as much as they have.

Yes I did. I was just stating that they have each had one nice year. Can't consider that as proven. Though I did read an opinion that Garcon would be the Colt's #1 receiver within 2 years, and I agree with that.

I think the Colts with Wayne, Garcon, Collie, and Gonzales have the potential to be stronger than our current lineup. But, other than Wayne, none of them has proven themselves as more than one year wonders. We just don't know at this point.

With the Texans, we have the best WR in football, and we know what we are getting in Walter. Is there a better all around # 2 out there?

And JJ showed flashes out there that he could become special.

Texecutioner
07-01-2010, 07:29 PM
That's not really true....Roddy White had a 1,200 yard receiving season before Matt ever got there....and that was with 3 different starting QBs. Basically the minute Vick left (who never really looked past his TEs) Roddy's career took off.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying White is better than Wayne. I just threw his name out there when people were listing top WRs, because he often goes overlooked. He's been very productive the last 3 seasons...one without Ryan. Basically I was just giving him props.

That is true. I had him on my fantasy team that year and the following year. He came on that season like in week 4 or 5 though and continued on to have a pretty good season. I think he really stepped up to another level the year after that though when Ryan got there. I'm not saying it was mainly because of Ryan, but he was probably the most consistent QB that WHite ever got to play with and when he was fully ready to commit working hard 24/7. White was pretty much right up there with just about all of the NFL WR's all year long that year just slightly behind AJ and Fitz.

gary
07-01-2010, 07:33 PM
Where does Boldin fit into the mix when he is healthy?

thunderkyss
07-01-2010, 07:45 PM
I brought Lienart and Orton into the conversation.....because they are crappy QBs. What part of that line of thinking is so hard to follow? Seriously?

nothing, what part of that line of thinking is so hard to follow?

Orton, crappy: Marshall could have had better numbers with better QB.
Lienart, crappy: Fitzegerald's numbers are going to drop.

Manning, best of the current generation: Makes slightly better than avg wide receiver look like they are better than the Texans speedier, more athletic wide receivers.

Schaub, pretty damn good. Still not manning, no matter what the numbers say: I'm glad he's on our team. while he has helped our wide receivers look good, I (and most people here) don't believe he helped to the extent that Peyton Manning does.



You're tying to act like Manning is the only QB who makes his receivers better in this division, like Schaub doesn't :rolleyes:

No, I am not. Peyton Manning makes that offense better. That shouldn't even be debatable.

Tom Brady helps his receivers look good. Not nearly as much as Manning.

Brett Farve makes his receivers look good. Not nearly as much as Peyton Manning.

Drew Brees, is probably the only guy I would say is even close to Manning.


P.S.

Collie and Garcon ARE BETTER DEPTH......

No they aren't.

JB
07-01-2010, 07:46 PM
Where does Bolden fit into the mix when he is healthy?

In my opinion, Boldin is a good #2 WR. He will never be a true #1.

gary
07-01-2010, 07:51 PM
In my opinion, Boldin is a good #2 WR. He will never be a true #1.All he has to do is keep on producing and win a ring or two.

Battle Red Flash
07-02-2010, 11:01 AM
I love lamp.

Very nice.

Didn't I see you kill a guy with a Trident?

Texecutioner
07-02-2010, 11:20 AM
In my opinion, Boldin is a good #2 WR. He will never be a true #1.

Boldin was a #1 WR before Fitz ever even got there. His numbers from year to year have been better than the majority of the league's #1 WR's. He's easily been a good enough guy to be a #1 WR all of these years. He's had quite a few injuries over the last 5 years or so though getting one practically every year so his numbers have dropped somewhat each year for those reasons. The year before last though when AJ led the league in yards, Boldin had been leading all receivers in yards and TD's at the mid point before he got hurt. He was dominating teams. I'm not sure if he's still capable of being a stud #1 WR for the Ravens at this point because of all of the injuries he's had over the years, but he's easily capable of being a good #1 WR especially for them. If he stays injury free, he should have no problem getting 1,200 yards and around 8 TD's for the season. That's good production for a #1 WR anywhere.

gary
07-02-2010, 11:30 AM
The Ravens now have Boldin, Clayton, Mason, and Stallworth that is a pretty decent group IMO.

Mr teX
07-02-2010, 12:37 PM
Boldin was a #1 WR before Fitz ever even got there. His numbers from year to year have been better than the majority of the league's #1 WR's. He's easily been a good enough guy to be a #1 WR all of these years. He's had quite a few injuries over the last 5 years or so though getting one practically every year so his numbers have dropped somewhat each year for those reasons. The year before last though when AJ led the league in yards, Boldin had been leading all receivers in yards and TD's at the mid point before he got hurt. He was dominating teams. I'm not sure if he's still capable of being a stud #1 WR for the Ravens at this point because of all of the injuries he's had over the years, but he's easily capable of being a good #1 WR especially for them. If he stays injury free, he should have no problem getting 1,200 yards and around 8 TD's for the season. That's good production for a #1 WR anywhere.

This. Walter is a serviceable #2, but i'd take boldin in a heartbeat as a #2 over him. & honestly i'd take, Garcon, Gonzo, Welker, (if they comes back relatively healthy) Driver, Breaston & Maclin before i even looked at Walter as my #2.

HOU-TEX
07-02-2010, 01:23 PM
This. Walter is a serviceable #2, but i'd take boldin in a heartbeat as a #2 over him. & honestly i'd take, Garcon, Gonzo, Welker, (if they comes back relatively healthy) Driver, Breaston & Maclin before i even looked at Walter as my #2.

Seriously? Walter is fearless and is willing to take the hit going over the middle. Other than Welker and possibly Boldin, you don't see the rest of those guys doing what Walter does. Driver used to but his knees are shot.

The only thing I'd fault Kevin for would be average speed and the ability to separate more often while running his routes. Other than that he's a "lunch pail" type player that does his job.

Mr teX
07-02-2010, 01:34 PM
Seriously? Walter is fearless and is willing to take the hit going over the middle. Other than Welker and possibly Boldin, you don't see the rest of those guys doing what Walter does. Driver used to but his knees are shot.

The only thing I'd fault Kevin for would be average speed and the ability to separate more often while running his routes. Other than that he's a "lunch pail" type player that does his job.

It's all relative as we see what walter brings to the table for us & aren't as in tune with the other guys b/c they play for other teams. But for me, i pay a little bit more attention to the position, & all of those guys (except for maclin probably) do a fair amount of floating across the middle. the difference is, they are a bit faster than Walter so they don't get hit as much...or as solid.

Think about how welker is so quick, that he's catching & turning up the field & running away from guys. He's on the high end of the spectrum with that.

gary
07-02-2010, 01:38 PM
Stupid Burress.

Goldensilence
07-02-2010, 01:40 PM
nothing, what part of that line of thinking is so hard to follow?

Orton, crappy: Marshall could have had better numbers with better QB.
Lienart, crappy: Fitzegerald's numbers are going to drop.

Manning, best of the current generation: Makes slightly better than avg wide receiver look like they are better than the Texans speedier, more athletic wide receivers.

Schaub, pretty damn good. Still not manning, no matter what the numbers say: I'm glad he's on our team. while he has helped our wide receivers look good, I (and most people here) don't believe he helped to the extent that Peyton Manning does. Hard to say when you have the best WR in football if he makes everyone better. I think AJ makes all the WRs better because you ALWAYS have to account for him.



No, I am not. Peyton Manning makes that offense better. That shouldn't even be debatable. Peyton Manning MAKES that offense.

Tom Brady helps his receivers look good. Not nearly as much as Manning.

Brett Farve makes his receivers look good. Not nearly as much as Peyton Manning.

Drew Brees, is probably the only guy I would say is even close to Manning.



No they aren't.

IMO I think they are. Only because whomever falls to the 4th spot whether that's Gonzo, Garcon or Collie are all better than DA. With the way Garcon performed in the playoffs I think it's going to push Gonzalez into the third spot as a slot receiver, which he's probably better suited for anyway.

Going to be an interesting TC for the Colts at WR.

thunderkyss
07-02-2010, 03:48 PM
Seriously? Walter is fearless and is willing to take the hit going over the middle. Other than Welker and possibly Boldin, you don't see the rest of those guys doing what Walter does. Driver used to but his knees are shot.

The only thing I'd fault Kevin for would be average speed and the ability to separate more often while running his routes. Other than that he's a "lunch pail" type player that does his job.

I've got no argument with your assessment of Walter. He is the ultimate #2 IMO. More than simply seviceable But he's a #2.

Boldin is a bona-fide #1b...
Gracon, JJ, IMO could possibly be a 1b..

Depends on the tools you've got, and what you want to do with your offense.

thunderkyss
07-02-2010, 03:58 PM
IMO I think they are. Only because whomever falls to the 4th spot whether that's Gonzo, Garcon or Collie are all better than DA. With the way Garcon performed in the playoffs I think it's going to push Gonzalez into the third spot as a slot receiver, which he's probably better suited for anyway.

Going to be an interesting TC for the Colts at WR.

Well, I'm still saying it is hard to say, with Manning throwing them the ball.

But the way I see it.
Andre > Wayne

JJ equal to.. slightly worse (at the worst) than Garcon

Walter = Gonzales (I think he's much better than both Gonzo & Collie)

Anderson < Collie (which I don't believe, but let's say that's true)

Andre Davis > ??

Martinez = < ??



By the way, anybody know what happened to Brandon Stokely??

Indy Skinnz
07-03-2010, 09:42 AM
Well, I'm still saying it is hard to say, with Manning throwing them the ball.

But the way I see it.
Andre > Wayne

JJ equal to.. slightly worse (at the worst) than Garcon

Walter = Gonzales (I think he's much better than both Gonzo & Collie)

Anderson < Collie (which I don't believe, but let's say that's true)

Andre Davis > ??

Martinez = < ??



By the way, anybody know what happened to Brandon Stokely??

Stokely has not been on the Colts since the 2007 season. He has been pretty productive on the Broncos since then. Remember the opening game last year when the Broncos won on a wing and a prayer over the Bengals thanks to a long tipped TD pass from Orton to Stokely?

thunderkyss
07-03-2010, 10:08 AM
Stokely has not been on the Colts since the 2007 season. He has been pretty productive on the Broncos since then. Remember the opening game last year when the Broncos won on a wing and a prayer over the Bengals thanks to a long tipped TD pass from Orton to Stokely?

My point, is that he was so-so with the Ravens, nothing special at all. Then he has a 1000 yard season with the Colts, and he looked like a legit play-maker. Now he's with the Broncos, and he's back to his so-so self.

To be more explicit, Peyton Manning could make me look like a legit NFL receiver.

gary
07-03-2010, 10:39 AM
Why did the Colts get rid of Stokely?

thunderkyss
07-03-2010, 11:13 AM
Why did the Colts get rid of Stokely?

I believe it was because they knew they had players with more pure talent that Manning could make look even better.

Indy Skinnz
07-03-2010, 11:17 AM
My point, is that he was so-so with the Ravens, nothing special at all. Then he has a 1000 yard season with the Colts, and he looked like a legit play-maker. Now he's with the Broncos, and he's back to his so-so self.

To be more explicit, Peyton Manning could make me look like a legit NFL receiver.

Then doesn't that make the Colts receiving corps superior to the rest of the league?

JB
07-03-2010, 11:18 AM
Then doesn't that make the Colts receiving corps superior to the rest of the league?

No, that just means Manning is superior

Indy Skinnz
07-03-2010, 11:19 AM
I believe it was because they knew they had players with more pure talent that Manning could make look even better.

When they let Stokely go, he had been injured a great deal of the time, including a season-ending achilles tear in their Super Bowl year. They drafted Gonzo the spring that they let Stokely walk. Of the other receivers at the time, only Wayne is still on the team.

Indy Skinnz
07-03-2010, 11:24 AM
No, that just means Manning is superior

How about this?

The Colts and their fans are plenty happy with their passing game, receiving corps, QB and all.

The Texans and their fans are plenty happy with their passing game, receiving corps, QB and all.

JB
07-03-2010, 11:27 AM
How about this?

The Colts and their fans are plenty happy with their passing game, receiving corps, QB and all.

The Texans and their fans are plenty happy with their passing game, receiving corps, QB and all.

Sounds about right to me.

gary
07-03-2010, 01:42 PM
Sounds about right to me.
Me too.

drs23
07-03-2010, 05:49 PM
How about this?

The Colts and their fans are plenty happy with their passing game, receiving corps, QB and all.

The Texans and their fans are plenty happy with their passing game, receiving corps, QB and all.

Kool with me.

Nice to see a realistic poster from another team. Sure beats the asshats from other teams not to be mentioned.:slapfight:

Indy Skinnz
07-09-2010, 09:16 AM
Just thought I would throw this out there. Just picked up the Athlon Sports NFL Preview magazine and they give grades to every position group in the league. Just presenting information that adds to the debate that several were having on this strength of team's receiving corps.

The Colts were the only receiving corps with an A+ grade. There were 14 teams with grades of B or higher and the Texans fell into the B category. There were 10 teams that had a grade higher than a B. I don't have it in front of me, but some of the teams that had higher ranking than Houston were.

Giants, Jets, Cowboys, Chargers, Packers, Vikings, Saints, Cardinals, among a few others. Their rankings do include the Tight Ends.

Also what was interesting, was that they included a paragraph from an opposing scout or coach. That scout/coach said that the team is loaded and had a nice draft but was suprised that they did not pursue another receiver to complement Johnson. Of course that is one person's opinion, but persumably they do have a clue given they make their living in the league.

So there you go - information from neutral observers. Now let me have it.

steelbtexan
07-09-2010, 09:56 AM
I can see this ranking with Daniels coming off serious ACL injury. Who knows if he can returnto his old form.

Kubes is banking on JJ maturing and becoming a big play threat opposite of AJ. I think it's going to happen. Walter and Anderson will both see time in the slot. IMHO

infantrycak
07-09-2010, 10:54 AM
The Colts were the only receiving corps with an A+ grade. There were 14 teams with grades of B or higher and the Texans fell into the B category. There were 10 teams that had a grade higher than a B. I don't have it in front of me, but some of the teams that had higher ranking than Houston were.

I think this is funny because there was a discussion of Manning v. Schaub on just last year's performances and a bunch of folks were saying Manning had his year with nothing and Schaub had his with a stacked corps.

Texan_Bill
07-09-2010, 11:03 AM
Just thought I would throw this out there. Just picked up the Athlon Sports NFL Preview magazine and they give grades to every position group in the league. Just presenting information that adds to the debate that several were having on this strength of team's receiving corps.

The Colts were the only receiving corps with an A+ grade. There were 14 teams with grades of B or higher and the Texans fell into the B category. There were 10 teams that had a grade higher than a B. I don't have it in front of me, but some of the teams that had higher ranking than Houston were.

Giants, Jets, Cowboys, Chargers, Packers, Vikings, Saints, Cardinals, among a few others. Their rankings do include the Tight Ends.

Also what was interesting, was that they included a paragraph from an opposing scout or coach. That scout/coach said that the team is loaded and had a nice draft but was suprised that they did not pursue another receiver to complement Johnson. Of course that is one person's opinion, but persumably they do have a clue given they make their living in the league.

So there you go - information from neutral observers. Now let me have it.

Well **** it!! If Athlon's says so, why even play the season?? :gun:

HOU-TEX
07-09-2010, 11:06 AM
WTF is Athlon? Never heard of it/them.

I don't think we have the best WR corps, but it's better than a few of the teams mentioned.

The Giants and Jets? Seriously?

Texan_Bill
07-09-2010, 11:11 AM
WTF is Athlon? Never heard of it/them.

I don't think we have the best WR corps, but it's better than a few of the teams mentioned.

The Giants and Jets? Seriously?

It's no "Dave Campbell's Texas Football"!!!

HOU-TEX
07-09-2010, 11:20 AM
It's no "Dave Campbell's Texas Football"!!!

Freakin love Dave Campbell's Texas Football. I was even in it a few times. :)

"toot, toot".....that was me tootin my own horn

Indy Skinnz
07-09-2010, 11:38 AM
Well **** it!! If Athlon's says so, why even play the season?? :gun:

Figured this response would be a common theme. Thanks for not disappointing.

Indy Skinnz
07-09-2010, 11:39 AM
I think this is funny because there was a discussion of Manning v. Schaub on just last year's performances and a bunch of folks were saying Manning had his year with nothing and Schaub had his with a stacked corps.

Well both of the groups arguing those points had no clue.