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thunderkyss
06-11-2010, 11:13 AM
Why were we only able to hold our opponents to under 20 points twice in the last 8 games?

Section516
06-11-2010, 11:26 AM
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll81/mydral1/dunta-robinson-contract.jpg

dalemurphy
06-11-2010, 11:39 AM
Why were we only able to hold our opponents to under 20 points twice in the last 8 games?

The loss of Eugene Wilson... then, of Dom Barber, which led to the return of Busing/Brian Russell.


And, are defense wasn't "so good"... it was just much better.

Section516
06-11-2010, 11:47 AM
If Okoye reverts to rookie form & Mitchell is as good as i think/hope hell be.

Inside pressure + MW = :kitten::kitten::kitten::kitten:.

And that's not a kitten with a ball of yarn.

pbat488
06-11-2010, 11:48 AM
Lack of a running game to kill clock time didn't help so much either.

Trail.Blazr
06-11-2010, 01:12 PM
The loss of Eugene Wilson... then, of Dom Barber, which led to the return of Busing/Brian Russell.


And, are defense wasn't "so good"... it was just much better.



I was thinking that myself... wondering where did the idea "it is" came from...?

m5kwatts
06-11-2010, 01:30 PM
Week 9 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 11 Titans season scoring average 22ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 12 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 35 that week
Week 13 Jags season scoring average 18ppg - scored 23 that week
Week 16 Dolphins season scoring average 22.5ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 17 Patriots season scoring average 27ppg - scored 27 that week

So out of the 6 games we're looking at here, only 2 times did the team score more than their season average.

In 3 of those games, the opponent's performance was below average because they did not meet their average points per game.

And lets not forget that half of these games were quarterbacked by future hall of famers who are top 7 all time at their position.

Mr teX
06-11-2010, 01:42 PM
Week 9 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 11 Titans season scoring average 22ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 12 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 35 that week
Week 13 Jags season scoring average 18ppg - scored 23 that week
Week 16 Dolphins season scoring average 22.5ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 17 Patriots season scoring average 27ppg - scored 27 that week

So out of the 6 games we're looking at here, only 2 times did the team score more than their season average.

In 3 of those games, the opponent's performance was below average because they did not meet their average points per game.

And lets not forget that half of these games were quarterbacked by future hall of famers who are top 7 all time at their position.


This...there's really only 1 time in that span where you can say we blew it & that was against the jags b/c not only did we lose that game, they scored more than their season average. Indy dropping 35 on us with that offense & an all-time great under center in his prime....nothing to be ashamed about.

m5kwatts
06-11-2010, 01:57 PM
This...there's really only 1 time in that span where you can say we blew it & that was against the jags b/c not only did we lose that game, they scored more than their season average. Indy dropping 35 on us with that offense & an all-time great under center in his prime....nothing to be ashamed about.

I agree, I've said all along the 2nd Jags game this year was our worst showing on defense in probably all of Kubiak's tenure. Bernard Pollard was the only guy to travel to Jacksonville that weekend. The rest of the defense had their head's up their asses back in Houston.

I remember the Jags ran 5 or 6 straight sweep runs and the whole defense was blocked except for Pollard who made the tackle on all 5 or 6 plays. Then the last drive of the game we needed a 3 and out, the front 7 was pushed aside like a feather and Pollard had to make every tackle and needless to say we didnt get the 3 and out. Schaub and the offense played with a ton of heart and produced despite some of the most boneheaded play-calling. Lol sorry, this game really grinds me gears.

Rey
06-11-2010, 02:09 PM
I think that if we can even somewhat consistently hold opponents under twenty points we'll be a definite play-off team.

10 defenses last yr. had a less than 20 point avg pts scored against them.

Texans finished 17th in that category at 20.8 pts per game. Saints finished 20th at 21.3

I think that the Texans defense should be better than they were at the beggining of last yr. How that translates over a whole season is anybody's guess. I saw an improved defense the last few games. Under 20 points is a pretty good benchmark though.

OrdinaryAvgGuy
06-11-2010, 02:12 PM
Week 9 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 11 Titans season scoring average 22ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 12 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 35 that week
Week 13 Jags season scoring average 18ppg - scored 23 that week
Week 16 Dolphins season scoring average 22.5ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 17 Patriots season scoring average 27ppg - scored 27 that week

So out of the 6 games we're looking at here, only 2 times did the team score more than their season average.

In 3 of those games, the opponent's performance was below average because they did not meet their average points per game.

And lets not forget that half of these games were quarterbacked by future hall of famers who are top 7 all time at their position.


I agree that a good number of those quarterbacks are beyond outstanding.

That beings said, the title of the post concerns our defense being "so good," and these statistics are for average points scored. Average is "so-so," not "so good."

I am not hating on our defense, but from what you have here, I see that we kept 3 of these offenses below their average, and two of those were only held 2 and 2.5 points below their average (we held the Colts 6 points below their average the first time we played). Again, average and "so good" are not the same thing.

That being said, the point made earlier about losing personnel was a big factor, I think, especially when we are talking about losing safeties against elite quarterbacks.

m5kwatts
06-11-2010, 02:19 PM
I agree that a good number of those quarterbacks are beyond outstanding.

That beings said, the title of the post concerns our defense being "so good," and these statistics are for average points scored. Average is "so-so," not "so good."

I am not hating on our defense, but from what you have here, I see that we kept 3 of these offenses below their average, and two of those were only held 2 and 2.5 points below their average (we held the Colts 6 points below their average the first time we played). Again, average and "so good" are not the same thing.

That being said, the point made earlier about losing personnel was a big factor, I think, especially when we are talking about losing safeties against elite quarterbacks.

Average and so good aren't the same thing yes. But the context of the original post seems to imply "we think we're this good improving defense but we're not" and the facts of the 8 game stretch in question seem to imply the opposite.

b0ng
06-11-2010, 02:36 PM
I agree, I've said all along the 2nd Jags game this year was our worst showing on defense in probably all of Kubiak's tenure. Bernard Pollard was the only guy to travel to Jacksonville that weekend. The rest of the defense had their head's up their asses back in Houston.



I thought the first Jaguars game (Or jets or first Titans game) were the worst, but at that point it's like trying to decide if having your head shoved in a bag of rats is worse than getting kicked in the balls repeatedly.

CloakNNNdagger
06-11-2010, 03:27 PM
All I'm hoping for now is that players on both sides of the ball stay healthier coming out of TC and going into the regular season. We seem to have a pattern of overwhelming perennial preseason optimism until decimation occurs one by one by the time that the season opens. Hopefully, at least improved conditioning will have a positive effect this year...............hopefully.

infantrycak
06-11-2010, 03:44 PM
Well obviously the season was what it was but I think the first three games were an aberration on the season for the D. Take them out and the Texans allowed 19 ppg over the last 13 games which would have had them in 8th. You can go a long way with a top 5 passing attack, top 10 scoring D if they can just get decent at rushing.

thunderkyss
06-11-2010, 04:18 PM
Average and so good aren't the same thing yes. But the context of the original post seems to imply "we think we're this good improving defense but we're not" and the facts of the 8 game stretch in question seem to imply the opposite.

13th total defense tied for 10th rushing 18th against the pass.

I honestly thought we were a lot better, than what the scoring stats say we are. I was looking over last years schedule. The scores I saw over the second half of the season didn't fit with what I remembered.

Your first post in this thread reminded me of something I heard on NFL Network... I think Reggie Wayne said it, "They on scholarship too."

So I'm good with that.

I'm also reminded of our 2008 season. Afterwards, we had several people saying it wasn't a big deal, that we were able to move the ball up & down the field. We ranked pretty high in total offense, both running & throwing the ball. In 2009, that translated to getting into the endzone as well.

If our defense can make the same progress in 2010, and we keep the other team out of the endzone, I think we'll have a fine year.

b0ng
06-12-2010, 12:52 AM
Well obviously the season was what it was but I think the first three games were an aberration on the season for the D. Take them out and the Texans allowed 19 ppg over the last 13 games which would have had them in 8th. You can go a long way with a top 5 passing attack, top 10 scoring D if they can just get decent at rushing.

I had to sit through those first 3 effing games. They counted just as much as the other 14 so I can't just take those stats and throw them out because they don't jive with how the defense was the rest of the season.

One thing though, I did see improvement, but we still did ourselves dirty a lot over the course of the season. Be it not stopping the opposition on a half or game ending drive, to just giving up dumb yardage when we are holding a team down, we need to improve.

I think what pissed me off the most was 3rd down passing situations last year.

Carr Bombed
06-12-2010, 01:40 AM
I had to sit through those first 3 effing games. They counted just as much as the other 14 so I can't just take those stats and throw them out because they don't jive with how the defense was the rest of the season.

One thing though, I did see improvement, but we still did ourselves dirty a lot over the course of the season. Be it not stopping the opposition on a half or game ending drive, to just giving up dumb yardage when we are holding a team down, we need to improve.

I think what pissed me off the most was 3rd down passing situations last year.

I can easily throw those first 3 games out of the window...

First off, we had a brand new defensive coordinator and defensive scheme.

Second, we were making mistakes that kids in Pop Warner football don't even make

Third, we drastically elevated the talent after those first 3 games (Cushing & Quinn got better and Pollard took Bushing off the field)

Sorry you don't go from being the worst the worst run defense through the first 3 games, to being the NFL's second best run defense through the final 13 games just by chance. Another thing the OP needs to remember is we were 4th in overall defense throughout the entire season as soon as Pollard started....how's that for numbers?

b0ng
06-12-2010, 09:58 AM
I can easily throw those first 3 games out of the window...

First off, we had a brand new defensive coordinator and defensive scheme.

Second, we were making mistakes that kids in Pop Warner football don't even make

Third, we drastically elevated the talent after those first 3 games (Cushing & Quinn got better and Pollard took Bushing off the field)

Sorry you don't go from being the worst the worst run defense through the first 3 games, to being the NFL's second best run defense through the final 13 games just by chance. Another thing the OP needs to remember is we were 4th in overall defense throughout the entire season as soon as Pollard started....how's that for numbers?

How many offseasons are we going to cherry pick defensive stats to prove that we had "an awesome defense that is turning the corner"? I'm just tired of having to say "Well if you toss out this performance and this performance we were badass!" or "after week __ we played lights out!".

I think the defense was exciting for a lot of games last year, but they also had their fair share of vomit inducing performances as well, which is pretty much par for the course for the Texans. I'm just to the point now where I have to see the defense be badass before I can anoint them. Scratch that, I want to see them be badass. Scratch that I crave seeing them be badass. I want to see teams that aren't just the scrubs (Not Oakland, Seattle) get held to a single digit score, or even a score below 17.

Something else fancy, we still lost to the two teams we played again after the first 3 weeks.

Again, I want this defense to be great, I really do, but I just can't bring myself to throw out the 3 games where we sucked the most to try to prove it to myself. Those damn games were some of the biggest abortions I've seen on the football field and I know we are a better defense than that, but they still counted, and there is nothing to say that we won't shit the bed again this coming season in the same fashion. Hopefully the offense has one of those miracle seasons where the RB's don't fumble the ball eleventy billion times, and the QB doesn't have double digit INT's. The defense getting a huge amount of turnovers throughout the season (a la the Saints last year, Steelers the year before, Pats before them) would be great to pair with an offense that doesn't make as many errors.

OrdinaryAvgGuy
06-12-2010, 10:14 AM
Average and so good aren't the same thing yes. But the context of the original post seems to imply "we think we're this good improving defense but we're not" and the facts of the 8 game stretch in question seem to imply the opposite.

If you go back and look at the context in which the statistics were presented, the point that they were meant to support was that the defense was as good as "we all think."

Now I personally think very well of our defense, but that isn't the right way to support that assertion.

infantrycak
06-12-2010, 10:20 AM
and the QB doesn't have double digit INT's.

First off what did my post start off with? - the season is what it is. Even you admit the first three games were an aberration on the season. I agree with you that you can't pull three games at random out and discard them. 13 games wouldn't be significant either if it was the first 13 and the last 3 sucked. But my post was a reflection of what the Texans prolonged performance has been most recently.

As for QB's not having double digit INT's, very few 4000 yd QB's have single digit INT's. For example Manning has only achieved it once with 9.

ChampionTexan
06-12-2010, 10:46 AM
How many offseasons are we going to cherry pick defensive stats to prove that we had "an awesome defense that is turning the corner"? I'm just tired of having to say "Well if you toss out this performance and this performance we were badass!" or "after week __ we played lights out!".



At this point, you can slice and dice them pretty much any way you want. You're using historical performance/statistics to predict future performance, and while I can't say I know of anything better, the fact is it's fun, and nothing more. Consider that you have people who are using that performance and those statistics to show that the Defense (or Offense, or Coaches, or player) is not as good as record/perception/sunshine clubbers on this board would have you believe, and other people using the same performance and statistics to show that the Defense (or Offense, or Coaches, or player) is actually much better than the record/perception/haters on this board would have you believe.

To say you can't throw out the first three games was valid while the '09 season was going on because at the end it, those three games counted, and the fact that we lost 2 of them (In no small part because of a poor defensive effort) turned out to have a pretty detrimental effect on the overall season.

To say you can't throw them out at this point in time is silly. First, the whole thing is mostly a crapshoot, and I know of no rules about this, so analyze the way you want. Secondly, they're last years games, and the first three have the exact same impact on next year as the last 13, and that would be none. But if you are going to predict future performance based on the past, I do think it's reasonable to recognize that from a yardage standpoint, the last 13 games of the year were very different than the first three. The last thing I'll say is this - if the historically bad defense had been games 1-13 and the average (from a scoring standpoint) and above average (from a yardage standpoint) games had been games 14-16, absolutely nobody (hater or sunshiner) would be putting any stock whatsoever in those final three games (because we'd all be arguing about whether the Texans made the right pick as their new HC), so I think it's somewhat hypocritical to put much stock in the first three games now.

Carr Bombed
06-12-2010, 12:57 PM
How many offseasons are we going to cherry pick defensive stats to prove that we had "an awesome defense that is turning the corner"? I'm just tired of having to say "Well if you toss out this performance and this performance we were badass!" or "after week __ we played lights out!".

Taking the defensive numbers from 13 consecutive games out of a 16 game season is not "cherry picking stats"....... Knocking a defense for 3 games where they had sub par personnel in and where they were playing in a new system is.

Norg
06-12-2010, 01:12 PM
No one had said we were super good stat wise we were like 16,or 17 out of the 32 teams on d some where in the middle of the pack

thunderkyss
06-12-2010, 01:27 PM
How many offseasons are we going to cherry pick defensive stats to prove that we had "an awesome defense that is turning the corner"? I'm just tired of having to say "Well if you toss out this performance and this performance we were badass!" or "after week __ we played lights out!".


I don't think anyone is trying to say our defense was anything other than what it was. Throwing out the first three games, is just to show the obvious improvement over the course of the season, or to show the drastic impact of incorporating Bernard Pollard into the line-up.

I think, by being honest, about what happened that first three games, trying to figure out why it happened, helps us be optimistic for the upcoming season, if we can believe those issues were fixed, or that we are at least on the right track.

thunderkyss
06-12-2010, 01:33 PM
Another thing, if the final 13 games show obvious improvement as the season went on, and we return the majority of our starters, and return Frank Bush & his system... is there any reason to believe our defense won't be better in '10, and that better defense will show up in the scoring column as well?

b0ng
06-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Look guys I'm like you, I want our defense to be improved. But I want it to be that way where we can look at the season as a whole without having to throw out 3 of the most horrific defensive performances we've seen in awhile.

The second thing is, and I'm not trying to slam TC because she does great legwork with numbers and whatnot, but this is something that we as a messageboard have done before, which is talk about the defense improving despite horrible showings (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56978&highlight=Defense+turning+corner). I'm just at the point right now where the defense needs to prove to me that it has turned the corner, not give me a case of the ol bluegnads.

I do think that they did better over the course of the seasons, but at the same time, our inexplicably bad starts can also be attributed to the defense needing to find it's feet. Again, I'm saying that if we're still having to "throw out certain games" to prove to ourselves that the defense is doing good then we haven't gotten there yet.

Carr Bombed
06-12-2010, 04:56 PM
Look guys I'm like you, I want our defense to be improved. But I want it to be that way where we can look at the season as a whole without having to throw out 3 of the most horrific defensive performances we've seen in awhile.

The second thing is, and I'm not trying to slam TC because she does great legwork with numbers and whatnot, but this is something that we as a messageboard have done before, which is talk about the defense improving despite horrible showings (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56978&highlight=Defense+turning+corner). I'm just at the point right now where the defense needs to prove to me that it has turned the corner, not give me a case of the ol bluegnads.

I do think that they did better over the course of the seasons, but at the same time, our inexplicably bad starts can also be attributed to the defense needing to find it's feet. Again, I'm saying that if we're still having to "throw out certain games" to prove to ourselves that the defense is doing good then we haven't gotten there yet.


Those three horrific performances were mainly do to assignment errors.....when they were corrected and we added a little bit more talent, the defense changed.

YOU CAN THROW those 3 games out of the window, because for the next 13 straight games the defense played consistently good. And it's not cherry picking either. Cherry picking is randomly picking games.......not when you take into account 13 straight games after a team made adjustments and added new starters. I mean your argument would be like if Matt Schaub missed three games and our offense sucked when Grossman was in there and then acting like those 3 games would be a reflection on how the offense was when Matt was playing the final 13 games.

The defense was a totally different defense once Pollard started and the team made the necessary adjustments.

thunderkyss
06-12-2010, 04:56 PM
I do think that they did better over the course of the seasons, but at the same time, our inexplicably bad starts can also be attributed to the defense needing to find it's feet. Again, I'm saying that if we're still having to "throw out certain games" to prove to ourselves that the defense is doing good then we haven't gotten there yet.

No one thinks we've gotten anywhere.

The bolded statement, is where we all are at. No one believes throwing out the first three games is anything other than showing we have improved over the course of the year, and gives us hope (just hope, not solid resolve) that we'll field an above average defense next year.

As a side note, in the thread you linked, we're talking about throwing out the first 13 games.

This thread, we're talking about throwing out the first 3.

Do you think that is an improvement or not?

V3rm0nt3r
06-12-2010, 04:57 PM
b0ng I just feel it necessary to let you know that in this thread you have managed to make CarrBombed look like an optimist. You're out Debbie Downering the king of cynacism. Very impressive.

Carr Bombed
06-12-2010, 05:04 PM
b0ng I just feel it necessary to let you know that in this thread you have managed to make CarrBombed look like an optimist. You're out Debbie Downering the king of cynacism. Very impressive.

When did I ever become the "King of cynacism"?

I'm a realist.....I'm neither a "debbie downer" or a "optimist"

ChampionTexan
06-12-2010, 05:09 PM
Look guys I'm like you, I want our defense to be improved. But I want it to be that way where we can look at the season as a whole without having to throw out 3 of the most horrific defensive performances we've seen in awhile.

The second thing is, and I'm not trying to slam TC because she does great legwork with numbers and whatnot, but this is something that we as a messageboard have done before, which is talk about the defense improving despite horrible showings (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56978&highlight=Defense+turning+corner). I'm just at the point right now where the defense needs to prove to me that it has turned the corner, not give me a case of the ol bluegnads.

I do think that they did better over the course of the seasons, but at the same time, our inexplicably bad starts can also be attributed to the defense needing to find it's feet. Again, I'm saying that if we're still having to "throw out certain games" to prove to ourselves that the defense is doing good then we haven't gotten there yet.

Let me ask you this question -if we'd played the first three games of last year like we were the '85 Bears Defense, and then played games 4 - 16 like we actually did play the first three games of last year - would those three good games in any way shape or form impact your expectations of the way the defense was going to play next year? Would you be saying that you can't forget the three really good games we played at the beginning of the season as you put forth your expectations of next year?

steelbtexan
06-12-2010, 05:11 PM
All I know is that when the defense had to stop the Tacks on MNF or the Jags in Jacksonville they didn't get the job done and that's throwing out the 1st 3 games.

V3rm0nt3r
06-12-2010, 05:12 PM
When did I ever become the "King of cynacism"?

I'm a realist.....I'm neither a "debbie downer" or a "optimist"

Maybe cynacism was a bad word to use but you do have an uncanny ability to disrupt a thoroughly uplifting thread by making downeristic (new word) remarks.

Another way of looking at it is you have the ability to find a very small hole somewhere in the topic, shove a stick of dynamite in and light the fuse.

Carr Bombed
06-12-2010, 05:13 PM
All I know is that when the defense had to stop the Tacks on MNF or the Jags in Jacksonville they didn't get the job done and that's throwing out the 1st 3 games.

In the Titans game they were in position to make plays (thanks Dunta) and against the Jags, if they could just run the ball a damn yard, we wouldn't even be talking about the defense (lets not let the offense off the hook here...they're the ones that really cost us in those games, not to mention our damn kicker who killed us all season long)

steelbtexan
06-12-2010, 05:21 PM
In the Titans game they were in position to make plays (thanks Dunta) and against the Jags, if they could just run the ball a damn yard, we wouldn't even be talking about the defense (lets not let the offense off the hook here...they're the ones that really cost us in those games, not to mention our damn kicker who killed us all season long)

True

But the defense couldn't get a stop when they had to have it. This has been a recurring theme of the Kubiak years. I believe it is due to a lack of talent/depth on the defensive side of the ball.

Now that Kubes is talking Super Bowl my reservations have been put to rest. LOL

Lucky
06-12-2010, 05:29 PM
I'm waiting for the companion thread "If our offense is so good...". Followed by the inevitable "If our head coach is so good...".

:popcorn:

steelbtexan
06-12-2010, 05:33 PM
I'm waiting for the companion thread "If our offense is so good...". Followed by the inevitable "If our head coach is so good...".

:popcorn:

Cant wait for that thread.

The main problems with the Texans are

1. The defense cant make a stop in the 4th qtr when they have to have too.
2. The offense cant run the ball and control the clock in the 4th qtr when they have too.

This is what non-playoff teams do. Hopefully this year will be different.

thunderkyss
06-12-2010, 05:49 PM
I'm waiting for the companion thread "If our offense is so good...". Followed by the inevitable "If our head coach is so good...".

:popcorn:

At least we're talking about football. I thought that's why we came here.




:kitten:

b0ng
06-12-2010, 05:53 PM
Those three horrific performances were mainly do to assignment errors.....when they were corrected and we added a little bit more talent, the defense changed.

YOU CAN THROW those 3 games out of the window, because for the next 13 straight games the defense played consistently good. And it's not cherry picking either. Cherry picking is randomly picking games.......not when you take into account 13 straight games after a team made adjustments and added new starters. I mean your argument would be like if Matt Schaub missed three games and our offense sucked when Grossman was in there and then acting like those 3 games would be a reflection on how the offense was when Matt was playing the final 13 games.

The defense was a totally different defense once Pollard started and the team made the necessary adjustments.

No, cherry picking would be taking any evidence that is contrary to the point you're making, and throwing it out.

Next, trying to make a point of something that never happened (ie matt schaub missing 3 games) is not really that great of an argument. We don't know what would've happened (Although I'm sure there would've been much wailing and gnashing of teeth if Schaub missed that much time again) in that scenario.

Finally, we didn't play consistently good defense down the stretch of 13 games. We played really good defense for most of those games but we still let Henne pass for 300+ yards, we still let Chris Johnson run up 151 yards on us, and we still let the Colts crappy running game get over 100 yards on us on the ground.

When this season starts back up I'm still going to fear playing our 3 division rivals because we still have this Jekyll and Hyde act going for us. Color me unconvinced even if we do throw out the games that make one side of the ball look extremely terrible.

thunderkyss
06-12-2010, 06:00 PM
Finally, we didn't play consistently good defense down the stretch of 13 games. We played really good defense for most of those games but we still let Henne pass for 300+ yards, we still let Chris Johnson run up 151 yards on us, and we still let the Colts crappy running game get over 100 yards on us on the ground.

When this season starts back up I'm still going to fear playing our 3 division rivals because we still have this Jekyll and Hyde act going for us. Color me unconvinced even if we do throw out the games that make one side of the ball look extremely terrible.

These are good points to argue. Forget about throwing out the first three games. Even when throwing them out, You see inconsistent play, and to add to the statistical evidence you threw out there, we also allowed 20 or more points in all but 3 games (if I remember right) over the last 8 games.

What gives?

b0ng
06-12-2010, 06:06 PM
These are good points to argue. Forget about throwing out the first three games. Even when throwing them out, You see inconsistent play, and to add to the statistical evidence you threw out there, we also allowed 20 or more points in all but 3 games (if I remember right) over the last 8 games.

What gives?

Honestly, I think it's a combination of the pass defense being suspect, and the offense making a lot of turnovers last year. Not just INT's mind you, but all the fumbalayah action we had going on in the run game.

I've really noticed that our defense plays off of how well our offense does. If we are going up and down the field (even only pulling down 3's in some cases) and keeping the ball our D comes out and does pretty well. It's just that once we start having 3 and outs or turnovers they get spooked and start breaking down.

Carr Bombed
06-12-2010, 07:05 PM
No, cherry picking would be taking any evidence that is contrary to the point you're making, and throwing it out.

LOL, that is not even what I'm doing.... I've already said Pollard changed this defense (and he did), so why would I give a crap about the first three games when he wasn't even here? That was a different defense....hence why I brought up how are offense would be different without Schaub and why that argument was relevent.

Carr Bombed
06-12-2010, 07:08 PM
I've really noticed that our defense plays off of how well our offense does. If we are going up and down the field (even only pulling down 3's in some cases) and keeping the ball our D comes out and does pretty well. It's just that once we start having 3 and outs or turnovers they get spooked and start breaking down.

That usually what happens with every defense. When you get early leads the other team has to become one dimensional trying to play catch up, which means they become very predictable and easy to defend.

drs23
06-13-2010, 10:01 AM
At this point, you can slice and dice them pretty much any way you want. You're using historical performance/statistics to predict future performance, and while I can't say I know of anything better, the fact is it's fun, and nothing more. Consider that you have people who are using that performance and those statistics to show that the Defense (or Offense, or Coaches, or player) is not as good as record/perception/sunshine clubbers on this board would have you believe, and other people using the same performance and statistics to show that the Defense (or Offense, or Coaches, or player) is actually much better than the record/perception/haters on this board would have you believe.

To say you can't throw out the first three games was valid while the '09 season was going on because at the end it, those three games counted, and the fact that we lost 2 of them (In no small part because of a poor defensive effort) turned out to have a pretty detrimental effect on the overall season.

To say you can't throw them out at this point in time is silly. First, the whole thing is mostly a crapshoot, and I know of no rules about this, so analyze the way you want. Secondly, they're last years games, and the first three have the exact same impact on next year as the last 13, and that would be none. But if you are going to predict future performance based on the past, I do think it's reasonable to recognize that from a yardage standpoint, the last 13 games of the year were very different than the first three. The last thing I'll say is this - if the historically bad defense had been games 1-13 and the average (from a scoring standpoint) and above average (from a yardage standpoint) games had been games 14-16, absolutely nobody (hater or sunshiner) would be putting any stock whatsoever in those final three games (because we'd all be arguing about whether the Texans made the right pick as their new HC), so I think it's somewhat hypocritical to put much stock in the first three games now.

Another well though out and well presented post. Rep if i could.

sometexansfan
06-13-2010, 10:38 AM
Why were we only able to hold our opponents to under 20 points twice in the last 8 games?

We just wanted to toy with them? :kitten: