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View Full Version : Texans Defense Is A Joke!!


cadahnic
03-12-2005, 08:03 AM
The thought that resigning Payne, Deloach and signing L. Sanders, Greenwood and whoever else will improve our playmaking on defense is just plain insane. We are taking a chance that Payne can regain his former player status, which is probably not a bad risk. Sanders and Greenwood are "we had to do something" signings at best. Greenwood I have to believe will help our coverage, but I dont think anyone watched game tape on him and saw how sub-par TE used him, but he has to be better than anyone we have other than Peek, who should be the cornerstone of our LB crew. Yeah he is uncontrolled madness, but so was Junior Seau can anyone say great LB. I am not sold on Sharper just being ditched for nothing, he has been the consumate pro and if I am not mistaken he has led or been in the top 10 in tackles in the league since he arrived in Houston. Sharper is a playmaker on the downside of his career, we should be smart and package him in a deal during the draft to grab another playmaking linebacker. Babin was a reach and everyone knows it, we could have gotten him in the second round and filled depth, but hindsight is 20/20. Babin will be functional at best but a T. Suggs type OLB he is not. Wong should easily be moved inside, but he is costing us way to much money, but he is our best returning LB other than Peek (by the way should be a starter next season). Our secondary is nice and was near the top in interceptions, we need a eventual replacement to Glenn who only has 2 more seasons in him at most and Coleman is nice. This Earl kid the jury is still out on him we will see this year when he get tons of PT. Faggins is a prototype nickel and dime set corner so it is good we locked him down. Ahh the D-Line is actually not bad other than Walker, who should be the one we are desperately trying to ship off. He is terrible and when is he not injured now. Robaire is solid, Payne hopefully will return, and in the draft we hopefully find someone to replace Walker. Overall we should be a sleeper playoff pick, but look for us all next year to be making excuses to our friends as to why our beloved TEXANS did not make the playoffs. I will tell you right now it will be because our Defense is timid and C.Palmer will call pathetic games.

AndreJ
03-12-2005, 08:07 AM
The thought that resigning Payne, Deloach and signing L. Sanders, Greenwood and whoever else will improve our playmaking on defense is just plain insane. We are taking a chance that Payne can regain his former player status, which is probably not a bad risk. Sanders and Greenwood are "we had to do something" signings at best. Greenwood I have to believe will help our coverage, but I dont think anyone watched game tape on him and saw how sub-par TE used him, but he has to be better than anyone we have other than Peek, who should be the cornerstone of our LB crew. Yeah he is uncontrolled madness, but so was Junior Seau can anyone say great LB. I am not sold on Sharper just being ditched for nothing, he has been the consumate pro and if I am not mistaken he has led or been in the top 10 in tackles in the league since he arrived in Houston. Sharper is a playmaker on the downside of his career, we should be smart and package him in a deal during the draft to grab another playmaking linebacker. Babin was a reach and everyone knows it, we could have gotten him in the second round and filled depth, but hindsight is 20/20. Babin will be functional at best but a T. Suggs type OLB he is not. Wong should easily be moved inside, but he is costing us way to much money, but he is our best returning LB other than Peek (by the way should be a starter next season). Our secondary is nice and was near the top in interceptions, we need a eventual replacement to Glenn who only has 2 more seasons in him at most and Coleman is nice. This Earl kid the jury is still out on him we will see this year when he get tons of PT. Faggins is a prototype nickel and dime set corner so it is good we locked him down. Ahh the D-Line is actually not bad other than Walker, who should be the one we are desperately trying to ship off. He is terrible and when is he not injured now. Robaire is solid, Payne hopefully will return, and in the draft we hopefully find someone to replace Walker. Overall we should be a sleeper playoff pick, but look for us all next year to be making excuses to our friends as to why our beloved TEXANS did not make the playoffs. I will tell you right now it will be because our Defense is timid and C.Palmer will call pathetic games.

Offseason aint over whats up wit you

infantrycak
03-12-2005, 08:22 AM
Babin was a reach and everyone knows it, we could have gotten him in the second round and filled depth, but hindsight is 20/20.

If you want to argue the Texans gave up to much to get Babin, knock yourself out, but hindsight says zero about whether we could have gotten Babin because no information has come out since the draft saying all the teams in between where we got him and our 2nd round pick (like the Patriots) would have passed on him.

rittenhouserobz
03-12-2005, 08:53 AM
What if we draft a DL player? Would that change your mind? You see the problem I have is that you complained about the defense, but didn't offer a solution.

BTW, if Babin was a "reach" then why were other teams interested in drafting him in the first round? To be honest getting Drob made up for any lack of playmaker ability that Babin does not have. I also see Babin as a project player as well. He is still converting to LB. Why didn't you mention that? It is important.

I think we will draft a DL so we can be get younger across the entire team. If you look closely. There is solid youth at OL, QB, RB, TE, WR, LB, and DB. OL is debatable as they may not be as solid. The one area we do not have some above average youth is DL. IMHO I apologize if I seem turse.

Honoring Earl 34
03-12-2005, 09:38 AM
:woot New England is full of reaches . They have a WR playing CB . They have a college DE playing ILB . Need more Babin is a smart player who brings it on every play . He is not a stiff either look back at his combine #s .

hot pickle
03-12-2005, 10:29 AM
how can you say the D is a joke when you haven't even seen them play together

bckey
03-12-2005, 11:17 AM
This dude thinks that improvement can only be made through high priced free agents. :wacko:

1) Babin year 2
2) Robinson year 2
3) Earl year2
4) Peek starting
5) Possible starter from the draft
6) Greenwood speed inside

time to allow the team to mature and play as a unit is the key to improvement. Look at the redskins, dolphins....


Lets don't make any excuses this year. Hopefully all will go well but if not please no more expansion excuses, or blocking scheme excuses, or injury excuses, or rehab excuses, or rookie excuses, or player moved to new position excuses, or depth excuses, and finally pointing at other teams that are worse excuses.

Marcus
03-12-2005, 11:28 AM
Lets don't make any excuses this year. Hopefully all will go well but if not please no more expansion excuses, or blocking scheme excuses, or injury excuses, or rehab excuses, or rookie excuses, or player moved to new position excuses, or depth excuses, and finally pointing at other teams that are worse excuses.

So . . . . if all doesn't go well, then what do you want to see, or hear?

(Let me guess. :rolleyes: You'll want to just fire them all, right?)

TexanFanInCC
03-12-2005, 01:58 PM
how can you say the D is a joke when you haven't even seen them play together

i agree. our defense is awesome when we play together. consistency is just our problem.

p.s. (to dunta23) dunta was shafted for defensive rookie of yr! new york media is the reason y vilma won it. also bc the jets were a winning team :wacko:

fresno8
03-12-2005, 03:24 PM
I think everything is falling into place for this team. We're getting younger and holes we had are filling nicely. My only concern is the o-line. I hope we hit a homer in the draft on o-lineman or we could be in a little trouble. We have Greenwood, Peek, Babin, + draft pick, our secondary is coming together nicely (pretty young), I guess I have a little concern about our d-line, but a good draft pick will help erase that. Really if we get a better more consistent pass rush our D will be pretty good. Don't worry too much yet.

rhc564
03-12-2005, 04:05 PM
Lets don't make any excuses this year. Hopefully all will go well but if not please no more expansion excuses, or blocking scheme excuses, or injury excuses, or rehab excuses, or rookie excuses, or player moved to new position excuses, or depth excuses, and finally pointing at other teams that are worse excuses.
"we need to allow them time to gel"

...you forgot one :thumbup

Hervoyel
03-12-2005, 11:50 PM
Lets don't make any excuses this year. Hopefully all will go well but if not please no more expansion excuses, or blocking scheme excuses, or injury excuses, or rehab excuses, or rookie excuses, or player moved to new position excuses, or depth excuses, and finally pointing at other teams that are worse excuses.

The Texans haven't been particularly prone to making excuses so I don't have any idea why you sound so sick of hearing them already. Someone needs to sit down with you and teach you the difference between an excuse and an explanation because you don't know what you're talking about.

Being an expansion team, being young, lacking depth, getting injured, and learning a new scheme are all things that legitimately affect a teams ability to win.

bckey
03-13-2005, 12:35 AM
The Texans haven't been particularly prone to making excuses so I don't have any idea why you sound so sick of hearing them already. Someone needs to sit down with you and teach you the difference between an excuse and an explanation because you don't know what you're talking about.

First off I'm not talking about the Texans making excuses. I'm talking about some of the posters on here. Secondly, I am referring to the upcoming season which is our 4th year and more will be expected from the team this year. Good teams overcome obstacles.

Being an expansion team, being young, lacking depth, getting injured, and learning a new scheme are all things that legitimately affect a teams ability to win.

Thanks for enlightening me.

Tedc
03-13-2005, 08:12 AM
The thought that resigning Payne, Deloach and signing L. Sanders, Greenwood and whoever else will improve our playmaking on defense is just plain insane. We are taking a chance that Payne can regain his former player status, which is probably not a bad risk. Sanders and Greenwood are "we had to do something" signings at best. Greenwood I have to believe will help our coverage, but I dont think anyone watched game tape on him and saw how sub-par TE used him, but he has to be better than anyone we have other than Peek, who should be the cornerstone of our LB crew. Yeah he is uncontrolled madness, but so was Junior Seau can anyone say great LB. I am not sold on Sharper just being ditched for nothing, he has been the consumate pro and if I am not mistaken he has led or been in the top 10 in tackles in the league since he arrived in Houston. Sharper is a playmaker on the downside of his career, we should be smart and package him in a deal during the draft to grab another playmaking linebacker. Babin was a reach and everyone knows it, we could have gotten him in the second round and filled depth, but hindsight is 20/20. Babin will be functional at best but a T. Suggs type OLB he is not. Wong should easily be moved inside, but he is costing us way to much money, but he is our best returning LB other than Peek (by the way should be a starter next season). Our secondary is nice and was near the top in interceptions, we need a eventual replacement to Glenn who only has 2 more seasons in him at most and Coleman is nice. This Earl kid the jury is still out on him we will see this year when he get tons of PT. Faggins is a prototype nickel and dime set corner so it is good we locked him down. Ahh the D-Line is actually not bad other than Walker, who should be the one we are desperately trying to ship off. He is terrible and when is he not injured now. Robaire is solid, Payne hopefully will return, and in the draft we hopefully find someone to replace Walker. Overall we should be a sleeper playoff pick, but look for us all next year to be making excuses to our friends as to why our beloved TEXANS did not make the playoffs. I will tell you right now it will be because our Defense is timid and C.Palmer will call pathetic games.

:listening Is this a fire Chris Palmer before the season starts thread or is this a defense rant? What does Palmer have to do with the D?

BTW, I am saving this to my puter and I will share it with you after the season.

TexansTrueFan
03-14-2005, 09:04 AM
Does this huy know the first thing about defense ??? HAHA they need time to Gel, babin will be improved, D-rob (thats all i gotta say), Peek is a beast, Robaire Smith will only get better in our system, Aaron Gleen old but still one of the best CB in the league, Morlon Green wood has excellent speed inside and should help or LB pass protection, SeTh PaYnE had hamstring injury last game but will be fine and better next season cause a knee injury usually takes a LONG time to get back to 100%. Gleen Earl i was impressed with him when he took over browns spot last season he's good at stopping the run and dont seem to give up big plays in the passing game. If you think thats looking negetavie than i dont know what to tell you pal, but its looking pretty good to me !!!

jagboi
03-14-2005, 09:11 AM
I wouldn't say its a joke at all, you guys have one of the best defensive minded coaches in the leauge. Somthing tells me you'll be alright.

texansfan88
03-15-2005, 07:21 PM
HEY! an intelligent jaguar fan...welcome!

TexansTrueFan
03-15-2005, 07:25 PM
HEY! an intelligent jaguar fan...welcome!


haha yes i think we can all appreciate that !!!!!

jagboi
03-16-2005, 01:08 AM
HEY! an intelligent jaguar fan...welcome!


Eh...thanks, I was born in Texas, but Jags will always be my #1 team :spot:

I can't stand the Jags board anymore, all the do is go around and personally assualt eachother, I get tired of it.

outofhnd
03-16-2005, 01:48 AM
Our Defense was a Joke When we had Matt Stevens patrolling the free safety Area. He couldnt wrap up a christmas gift. Last year was a vast improvement on defense, with the exception of the Minnesota and game 1 of the Colts we were stout and did not allow alot of points. If our defense is a joke then alot of NFL franchises missed the punchline because we were contenders to win 3 more games than we did. Examples How about the minnesota game? Even though we couldnt stop Mewelde Moore on runs we were a series away from probably winning that contest. Take 1 turnover away and we could have had victories over S.D and Detroit. If you want to look at a joke of a defense look no further than the 2004 Dallas Cowboys. The texans are just adding depth 1 draft at a time. I believe in building via the draft and minimizing your FA acquisitions after all look at the Redskins they have been big time FA deal makers and spenders, and they havent had a winning record since the Norv Turner coached era. I see us drafting defensive player no specific position just best available defensive player at 13.

P.S Babin was an awesome disruptor and made some critical defensive plays that could have been gamewinners. Babin on the outside teamed with Peek should give us an definite 2 punch threat on pass rush situations.

Grid
03-16-2005, 02:00 AM
I thought our defense played well against Minnesota.. they sucked a bit in the first half but pretty much shut them down in the second.

I think the worst game our defense played was against the Broncos.

I forgive them for the Colts because they did that to every team.

bckey
03-16-2005, 09:38 AM
I thought our defense played well against Minnesota.. they sucked a bit in the first half but pretty much shut them down in the second.

I think the worst game our defense played was against the Broncos.

I forgive them for the Colts because they did that to every team.

I was at the Minnesota game. I thought the defense was outstanding in the 2nd half. Unfortunately they gave up the big play in ot. Andre Johnson was a monster in that game.

jewfish
03-16-2005, 11:26 PM
Hey guys I'm a Panther fan here, so you can count on me for a complete 3rd person view since the Panthers and Texans are not only in separate divisions, but separate conferences.

The Texans defense isn't something that I would put down or make fun of much, because they are a very young team. The Texans have a lot of young key players on defense that are still developing, and the unit is still getting used to playing with each other. You wait. Every year they'll get better. If they don't break out this year, they'll be just simply retardedly good the year after. I have a feeling the Texans will have between the top 10 and top 15 defense this year. They are still too young to be one of the league's best I think, but it's coming.

ATX
03-19-2005, 04:33 AM
Babin was solid, 63 tackles and 4 sacks. D. Rob had 87 tackles 3 sacks. these 2 guys are solid players who can actually tackle. i think babin was never really given the chance to do what he will do eventually because he was still learning. alot of times it seemed like babin rushed conservatively, but he made the tackle if it came his way. hopefully next year, he'll be able to rush the QB more, and still make the tackle. as for D. Rob, all i see is a bright future.
i think the addition of greenwood gives the texans speed in the middle. i think sharper will stay this year and the texans will use wong, greenwood, sharper, babin as the LB starters with peek playing substantial time and wong playing more on the inside. i think having 5 good LBs would improve the D (more looks and schemes as well as a good rotation). i think we're set at the safety spots with some good young players. with coleman starting FS and a battle between earl and walker at SS. we also have Simmons who can play SS, FS, as well as DB. as for the DLine, i think we'll pick up a DL in the first 3 rounds. All in all i think the Texans defense will be improved over last season, unless we lose sharper and/or have injuries.

aj.
03-19-2005, 07:37 AM
The Texans defense isn't something that I would put down or make fun of much, because they are a very young team. The Texans have a lot of young key players on defense that are still developing, and the unit is still getting used to playing with each other. You wait. Every year they'll get better. ... They are still too young to be one of the league's best I think, but it's coming

That would be a great argument if it was true.

Texans defensive starters at the beginning of last season:

Walker - 10th season
Payne - 8th season
Smith - 5th season

Babin - R
Sharper - 8th season
Foreman - 6th season
Wong - 7th season

Robinson - R
Glenn - 11th season
Coleman - 9th season
Brown - 7th season

The Texans were a very veteran unit with two rookie starters at the beginning of the season and three rookie starters at the end of the season. The rookies did nothing to hamper the defense last season. If anything, they helped shore up weak areas from the year before.

By year's end, Robinson was arguably the best defensive player on the team and a big upgrade over Coleman at RCB. Brown was replaced by Earl (R) after the Denver game because Earl was the better player - more range, better speed. Babin (R) was as solid as you could expect for a guy changing positions.

The rookies did not hold this defense back. If anything, they held it up. It was up to the 8 or 9 vets to carry the D the first three seasons and as a group they were average at best at the end of their third season together.

The retooling at LB is just the beginning of the transformation of this defense. In the next year or two, the defense will lose three more starters (Glenn, Coleman, and Walker) because of age/salary. So the reality is the opposite of what you are saying: this defense is/was old as a unit and if anything it's going to get younger over the next few seasons.

hound
03-19-2005, 07:56 AM
The statement that our defense is a joke is stupid... Jokes make you laugh. When ever I think about our defense it makes me want to cry. What's funny about that!


I've posted this basic thought elsewhere, but Babin is okay. He made 63 tackles and had 4 sacks. We just gave up waaaaaaaay too much for him. But I mean that's not his fault. If we had picked him in the second round no one would be complaining. Maybe someone would have taken him before the Texans drafted in the second if the Texans hadn't moved up. In that case we could have taken someone else. Between when the Texans took Babin and when we would have drafted there were only two OLB's taken. If we hadn't moved up one of the teams that took those guys could have taken Babin... but then we could have taken the OLB they took. Who'd they take, you ask.

Arizona took Karlos Dansby and he wound up with 60 tackles and 1 sack and Detroit took Teddy Lehman and he only got 1 sack too... but 102 tackles.

So okay we got 63 and 4 and could of had 60 and 1 or 102 and 1.

Yeah... but what did Tennessee do with the picks we sent them... you ask.

Tennessee took Jacob Bell who starts for them at OG, DE/OLB Bo Schobel who only got into 5 games and made 15 tackles and Randy Starts who is a back up at DT but he had 4.5 sacks and TE Ben Troupe who backs up at TE but really had a better stat year than their starter.

Okay... But remember the Texans got those 3 extra sacks from Babin over the two guys they could have had... And well... okay Lehman did have 39 more tackles but...

And besides would those guys Tennessee took really have helped the team... Considering where the Texans are weak... would it be better to have added that DT, and TE and OG and OLB... Okay, okay... I know what you're saying... "But aren't we weak at DT, TE and OG and OLB...?" Or maybe, if you're really picky, you're saying, "well actually we could have taken Lehman instead of Troupe with our second round pick. Then we would have had his 102 tackles and a great back up DT and at least a back up at OG and a practice squard OLB that may move up next year due to the loss of Sharper."

And my responses is... "Well yeah... but I don't see anything funny about it."

The Preacher
03-19-2005, 08:47 AM
The only way our defense struggles this year is if we continue to have trouble getting to the QB. Our secondary is really coming around and if our d-line/lb's can get more pressure we could have a dominant d and I think we will at times. Otherwise, it doesn't matter just look at the difference in the two games against the colts the second of which we were getting to peyton and we set the tone of how to slow them down. Obviously the Patriots had the most success of getting to him and look what they did. I don't know if we can get better pressure with the same group of guys but you have to figure they will improve over last year. Hopefully we get another top flight corner that will allow us to scheme more. On the other hand the Patriots won it all with young mediocre corners because their d-line/lb's do such a good job of pressuring at the right time. I am just not sure who we could draft to bring more heat hopefully Peek and a more mature Babin will create some havoc.

I mentioned yesterday that Babin trade seemed questionable considering our lack of depth and got a deserving earful for sounding so arrogant on my first day here. That's not my finest quality and I think CC has done a great job of putting a strong nucleus of young players together. I just happened to bring up the fact that one incident involved a lot of opportunity cost. It's incredibly difficult to speculate on what ifs but it would of been nice to have Tatum Bell or Julius Jones to compliment DD. Those two were in the next few picks after Troupe went to Tennessee. Add in two more players that we gave up and I think we would easily look as good as we do now. The Titans scored big on Jacob Bell and I think they actually got Starks with the pick they already had but he really came on strong for them in the second half. Of course all the scouting in the world might not produce a great player and a little luck is involved but this seems to be a deep draft and if we draft well and often we are going to be a force very soon.

hound
03-19-2005, 11:23 AM
I The Titans scored big on Jacob Bell and I think they actually got Starks with the pick they already had but he really came on strong for them in the second half.

According to the GBNreport all the players I mentioned, including Starks, were taken with the picks they got from us.

Holden135
03-19-2005, 11:32 AM
The Texans d will be fine. Peek is possibly the best pass rushing lb we have, he is also a play maker. It seemed like every time he got in the game(not as much as he should have) he was sacking someone or forcing a fumble. We also have a lot of youth on the defense that will have a lot more experience this year. Babin should do a lot better with a whole year under his belt and DR could be a pro bowl db after this season is over. The key to our d is keeping everyone healthy ESPECIALLY the d-line.

Vinny
03-19-2005, 11:41 AM
The operative word there is seems. He has 3 career NFL sacks.

The Preacher
03-19-2005, 12:02 PM
You're right hound my bad they took Starks at #71 and Rich Gardner with their second 3rd rounder.

cadahnic
03-19-2005, 12:09 PM
Damn good posting Hound. I meant funny in the way a kid getting hit by a car is funny.

aj.
03-19-2005, 12:24 PM
This is how the Texans Titans trade boiled down in the end:

The Texans gave Tenenssee a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th in exchange for a 1st and 5th**

The Texans later traded to Jax the 5th they got from Tennessee for a 6th and a 7th.

In the end:

Texans Get
1st round, No. 27: Jason Babin, LB
6th round, No. 175: Jammal Lord, FS
7th round, No. 210: Raheem Orr, LB

Titans Get:
2nd round, No. 40: Ben Troupe, TE
3rd round, No. 71: Randy Starks, DT
4th round, No. 103: Bo Schobel, DE
5th round, No. 138 Jacob Bell, G

** The teams swapped positions in the 1st and 2nd, the Texans gave the Titans a 3rd and a 4th, and the teams swapped 5th's.

BigDTexansFan
03-19-2005, 03:09 PM
I think everything is falling into place for this team. We're getting younger and holes we had are filling nicely. My only concern is the o-line. I hope we hit a homer in the draft on o-lineman or we could be in a little trouble. We have Greenwood, Peek, Babin, + draft pick, our secondary is coming together nicely (pretty young), I guess I have a little concern about our d-line, but a good draft pick will help erase that. Really if we get a better more consistent pass rush our D will be pretty good. Don't worry too much yet.


Personally I think Casserly and Capers both looking to either move up or stand pat depending on what O-line there is available. LBs getting faster, strong in Secondary, Payne (please god let him play like 2002-2003) coming back with a full minicamp, training camp preseason to get ready. Only weakness that is glaring is O-line...we need to stop the bleeding when Carr gets time (and Palmers calls for a DEEP one) things can happen

nunusguy
03-19-2005, 03:37 PM
The essence of the trade if you translate picks into players was us xchanging Troupe & Starks for Babin. We've probably got a good young football player
at a critical need position. But the Titans can argue that they got 2 good young football players. I'll leave it at that - this topic has been revisted enough times by now.