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View Full Version : what keeps schaub from being an elite qb?


Grforces
05-28-2010, 11:14 PM
What do you guys think schaub has to do to be considered an elite QB? He did great 09 season, and has steadily improved. If he stays healthy I consider him to be top 5. He has good accuracy short, medium, and deep. Has a great play action even though the run game is almost non-existent. He obviously has to win in the division but I don't blame him as much as I do our play calling.

b0ng
05-28-2010, 11:25 PM
Cut down the INT's while getting better at passing for TD's in the red zone.

m5kwatts
05-28-2010, 11:34 PM
I think he is an elite QB already

Texan_Bill
05-28-2010, 11:38 PM
I think it's the stigma of being soft, or injury prone. What was it his first two seasons, he only played in 11 each of those seasons.

That said, if 2009 was indicative of the type of QB he can be, than he should hit near elite status - SOON!

ArlingtonTexan
05-28-2010, 11:40 PM
Winning games despite your teams shortcomings is what elevates players from above average to elite. It is not totally fair to Qbs, but until people think that Schuab takes a good offense makes it truly great he is going to be at the levels below the top handful of guys no matter what the stats say.

MojoMan
05-28-2010, 11:41 PM
I think he is an elite QB already

I think that is basically right, except he needs to show he is not a one-year wonder. If he performs next year on par with how he performed last year, I believe he will then be recognized in most circles as an elite QB.

texansdrummer
05-28-2010, 11:52 PM
I think he is quite likely already "elite".....assuming he's healthy. Otherwise the things that hold pundits (and a number of people on this board) back from this opinion could include field goal kickers who missed a number of key kicks, running backs fumbling at key moments, and under-performing d-backs with a penchant for writing on their shoes. If those things go a bit differently, we'd "suddenly" have an "elite" QB, good coach, and we'd have likely been in the playoffs. Would have, could have. I don't have an issue with our QB. Can't name many that I'd rather have, so I guess that must mean that he's elite in some sense.

Ryan
05-29-2010, 12:01 AM
Get this team to the playoffs and we'll talk elite, but until then, he's just at the very top of the second tier of quarterbacks.

Allstar
05-29-2010, 12:05 AM
If he has a similar season to last season, he's elite in my book.

Fox
05-29-2010, 12:16 AM
What do you guys think schaub has to do to be considered an elite QB?

Win. He's got the tools and the horses to put up big numbers, which he's proven he can do. The perception of the elite QB comes from two main attributes: they throw a lot of touchdowns, and they win big games - consistently. Schaub can do the first, he has yet to really do the ladder on any stage of genuine significance. The Texans need a year or two of solid playoff contender type years (10-11+ wins) and he'll be recognized as an elite QB.

powerfuldragon
05-29-2010, 12:18 AM
top ten in madden means he's already an elite. derp.

Grforces
05-29-2010, 12:22 AM
top ten in madden means he's already an elite. derp.

LMAO! He dint do that bad with interceptions. He threw 15 and had 29 TD's. Its not great but its also not bad. It wasent a secret that we were gonna throw. Plus our O line sux.

eriadoc
05-29-2010, 12:32 AM
Only two things - playoff wins and consistency. Those two things should go together.

Malloy
05-29-2010, 02:01 AM
Already ther stat-wise for me. National recognition, being down in the 4th, taking charge and pulling home the win on his arm/leadership.

thunderkyss
05-29-2010, 02:16 AM
The biggest thing, I think, is that he has to continue to do what he is doing. Like several have already said, he has to prove he wasn't a one-hit-wonder.

winning a few important games would help too.

Grforces
05-29-2010, 02:24 AM
Your right on the stats, they are all there. I think what makes manning the best qb in the league and top 3 to ever play the game is his come backs. Something that schaub obviously lacks, but then again, Manning calls almost all the plays.

SheTexan
05-29-2010, 06:13 AM
I think he is quite likely already "elite".....assuming he's healthy. Otherwise the things that hold pundits (and a number of people on this board) back from this opinion could include field goal kickers who missed a number of key kicks, running backs fumbling at key moments, and under-performing d-backs with a penchant for writing on their shoes. If those things go a bit differently, we'd "suddenly" have an "elite" QB, good coach, and we'd have likely been in the playoffs. Would have, could have. I don't have an issue with our QB. Can't name many that I'd rather have, so I guess that must mean that he's elite in some sense.


This!! He's only as good as the players around him. He has the stats. He just had key players around him last year who screwed up, not his fault!!

Kulluminatii
05-29-2010, 06:20 AM
If you don't consider Schaub elite, your smoking something. Yes he has room to improve, but he doesn't need to improve much to be considered a Top 5 QB. Like what has already been stated, he needs to help his team win those close games. A few come-from-behind victories would be nice as well :D.

HJam72
05-29-2010, 07:45 AM
I believe he already is, but to be recognized I think he has to date a model or movie-star or something.

IDEXAN
05-29-2010, 07:46 AM
Playoffs competition and playoff victories.
Joe Montana, a rather slightly better-than-ordinary QB otherwise, parlayed
playoff victories and ultimately SB victories into ratings as one of the greatest NFL QBs in history.

Lucky
05-29-2010, 07:51 AM
Joe Montana, a rather slightly better-than-ordinary QB otherwise...You're kidding, right?

IDEXAN
05-29-2010, 08:59 AM
You're kidding, right?
Basically the media made Montana one of the greatest ever, and that's primarily because he was the QB for a very good if not great team which won multiple SBs while he was on that team. But then the media is, well it's the media which means it's all about media events and there's no bigger media event in sports than the SB.
I rate Peyton Manning and John Elway the 2 greatest QBs ever, whether or not thaey've got a single SB victory between them. And Montana isn't in there league IMO.

gary
05-29-2010, 09:38 AM
I think the Texans have to make the Playoffs in order for the media to talk about Matt, Peyton, and Tom togethe.

WWJD
05-29-2010, 09:45 AM
Montana was great. Smart. Not the most physically gifted but he played 60 minutes of football every single game. Never out of a game..probably the one QB I'd most hate to face in a Super Bowl if I was the opponent. He was just money.

infantrycak
05-29-2010, 11:02 AM
You're kidding, right?

To a degree I understand where he is coming from. Folks treat Montana like God and Emmitt, Irvin and Aikman like people lucky enough to be on that team. They were all gifted. Emmitt ran when nobody should (NY Giants with separated shoulder), Aikman upped his game in the post season when folks thought let's take away Emmitt. Irvin reinvented the WR position for guys like AJ now who back then might have been a tight end. Montana is great but IMO he has been overhyped when folks like Staubach, Tarkington and Kelly are dismissed out of hand.

IDEXAN
05-29-2010, 11:30 AM
Smart. Not the most physically gifted but he played 60 minutes of football every single game.

I think that's a very accurate assessment of Montana, and that's the difference between him and the QBs who were really the elite of the elite.
Montana was an overachiever, but Elway and Manning were also overachievers who were also incredibly gifted, talented players.
Can you just imagine either Elway or Manning with those 49er juggernauts that Montana QBed ?

Beer and Metal
05-29-2010, 11:54 AM
I believe he already is, but to be recognized I think he has to date a model or movie-star or something.

Or a splashy product endorsement.

HouSportsWriter
05-29-2010, 12:52 PM
his own cerial box....

Second Honeymoon
05-29-2010, 01:35 PM
nothing.

for that matter, i would almost say he is elite already...maybe not Top5 yet but he knocked on the door last year. plus the guy was only drafted in like 2004 with Rivers and Manning so he has a lot of football ahead of him.

Matt is great and part of the solution

ubecool454
05-29-2010, 01:49 PM
What do you guys think schaub has to do to be considered an elite QB? He did great 09 season, and has steadily improved. If he stays healthy I consider him to be top 5. He has good accuracy short, medium, and deep. Has a great play action even though the run game is almost non-existent. He obviously has to win in the division but I don't blame him as much as I do our play calling.

I think he is elite already but for the rest of the league to recognize him as that he has to go deep in the playoffs. He is already one of the top five QBs and will remain there with the weapons that we have. After P.Manning, Brady, and Brees I can't think of anyone else...Sanchez has to do it more than one year and Farve is to old to compare. I think Schaub and McNabb are 4 and 5 either way you want to list them.

b0ng
05-29-2010, 01:52 PM
Really I've always thought Bradshaw and Namath were more over-hyped than Montana. Montana made all sorts of things happen with 2 minutes on the clock (So did Elway for that matter) and basically that's where we get the legend of "Joe Cool".

Of course talking about over-hyped QB's who have won multiple rings and played on great teams is sort of nit picking. Those teams wouldn't have been so great if they had VY quarterbacking them (Or maybe they would've been!) :kitten:

EDIT: I said cut INT's and get more RZ TD Passes but really if Schaub beats the Pats in a playoff game during a 2 minute drive,(And I'm talking about throwing a game winning TD here) the media will probably fellate him for the rest of the offseason.

Lucky
05-29-2010, 02:03 PM
Montana is great but IMO he has been overhyped when folks like Staubach, Tarkington and Kelly are dismissed out of hand.
I don't know who is discounting those QBs. They're Hall of Famers.

I don't know how Montana could be overhyped. 4 Super Bowl Championships. 71% winning percentage. 16-7 in the playoffs. 31 4th quarter comebacks. What more did he need to do?

Basically the media made Montana one of the greatest ever, and that's primarily because he was the QB for a very good if not great team which won multiple SBs while he was on that team.
I don't think anyone on the Niners, from the head coach to the ball boys, ever suggested that Joe Montana was along for the ride. And I'm by proclaiming Montana's greatness, I don't see how that diminishes Manning's or Elway's (or any other QB's) accomplishments. Joe Montana saw the field like Magic and Larry saw the court. They were the masters of their craft. Saying Joe Montana is great is akin to saying water is wet or Jessica Alba is hot. Just the way things are.

ArlingtonTexan
05-29-2010, 02:20 PM
If you don't consider Schaub elite, your smoking something. Yes he has room to improve, but he doesn't need to improve much to be considered a Top 5 QB. Like what has already been stated, he needs to help his team win those close games. A few come-from-behind victories would be nice as well :D.

I understand what the definition of eilite is. A QB who has never taken a team to a playoff game and had one complete 16 team game season is not elite. Elite are Brady, Manning, Brees..i.e. the very best the business has to offer. Schaub is very good and could become elite, but he is not there and it is not even close.

krocket
05-29-2010, 03:24 PM
Schaub needs to be able to will his team to win despite whatever obstacles are presented by the other team. He should be able to drive his team down the field in the last 2 minutes of the game to make that winning touchdown on a more-or-less consistent basis.

pbat488
05-29-2010, 04:13 PM
He's held back from being elite because Bob McNair is a cheap, misanthropic owner who only cares about lining his pockets with $100 bills.

/thread

:sarcasm:

Second Honeymoon
05-29-2010, 05:18 PM
I think he is elite already but for the rest of the league to recognize him as that he has to go deep in the playoffs. He is already one of the top five QBs and will remain there with the weapons that we have. After P.Manning, Brady, and Brees I can't think of anyone else...Sanchez has to do it more than one year and Farve is to old to compare. I think Schaub and McNabb are 4 and 5 either way you want to list them.

what about Rivers, Favre, and Rodgers? I would take all 3 of those guys over McNabb and even Schaub. Schaub is the next tier with Eli, Big Ben, and Palmer.

thunderkyss
05-29-2010, 05:26 PM
what about Rivers, Favre, and Rodgers? I would take all 3 of those guys over McNabb and even Schaub. Schaub is the next tier with Eli, Big Ben, and Palmer.

Does Rogers really belong in that group?

ATXtexanfan
05-29-2010, 06:19 PM
Get this team to the playoffs and we'll talk elite, but until then, he's just at the very top of the second tier of quarterbacks.

i thought the thread would have ended right here, playoffs not fantasy #'s

Grforces
05-29-2010, 07:52 PM
Does winning a superbowl make the qb elite? I don't think so. If schaub has a great season and we go to the playoffs would the sceptics say he is elite? I like schaub better then Eli and rapeaburger, I have rogers as good as schaub maybe.
Maybe its because im having football withdrawls and im not remembering the bad, just the good, but theres only about 3 or 4 qb's i would rather have then schaub.
You guys think that Marino was elite even though he never won a superbowl?

Goatcheese
05-29-2010, 07:59 PM
What keeps schaub from being an elite qb?

His crazy eyes!

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/schaub.jpg

Look at that sh*t! No wonder he randomly throws the ball 20 yards away from his nearest receiver every 15-20 attempts.

Nobody can be an elite QB when they look like this:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c60/Don_Jorge/crazy_eyes.jpg

TimeKiller
05-29-2010, 09:22 PM
health/lack of support from ground game

Texan_Bill
05-29-2010, 09:25 PM
What keeps schaub from being an elite qb?

His crazy eyes!

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/schaub.jpg

Look at that sh*t! No wonder he randomly throws the ball 20 yards away from his nearest receiver every 15-20 attempts.

Nobody can be an elite QB when they look like this:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c60/Don_Jorge/crazy_eyes.jpg

I don't know about "Crazy Eyes" From 'Deeds', but these lyrics come to mind....



Been dazed and confused for so long it's not true,

.......

IDEXAN
05-30-2010, 09:24 AM
I don't know how Montana could be overhyped. 4 Super Bowl Championships. 71% winning percentage. 16-7 in the playoffs. 31 4th quarter comebacks. What more did he need to do?

Just like many political pundits automatically credit a President for strong job performance because they have the good fortune to be in office during a vigorous recovery in the upside of the business cycle, Montana happened to be the QB of an NFL franchise when it was blessed with superior talent.
For example, Montana was good, OK very good, but the guy he was throwing passes to was great.

Lucky
05-30-2010, 10:28 AM
Just like many political pundits automatically credit a President for strong job performance because they have the good fortune to be in office during a vigorous recovery in the upside of the business cycle, Montana happened to be the QB of an NFL franchise when it was blessed with superior talent.
For example, Montana was good, OK very good, but the guy he was throwing passes to was great.
Montana won 2 Super Bowls before Jerry Rice was even in the league. Rice was the only HOFer Montana played with on offense. Other than Steve Young, who was Montana's backup for 4 seasons. The Niners were not dripping with talent. They were the best coached team in the league guided by the premier field general of the era.

Now if you want to make a case that Montana had an advantage over other QBs due to coaching, I would agree. Bill Walsh may be the greatest offensive mind in the history of the NFL. His coaching tree still dominates the NFL landscape. After the Niners 2nd Super Bowl win (over the Dolphins and Dan Marino and without Jerry Rice), Bill Walsh had this to say (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.aspx?RELEASE_ID=721) about Montana:

"Joe Montana is the greatest quarterback today, maybe the greatest quarterback of all time."Bill Walsh said it, and that's good enough for me.

IDEXAN
05-30-2010, 11:16 AM
Montana won 2 Super Bowls before Jerry Rice was even in the league.

No he didn't, the San Francisco 49ers did. It's a team award, not an individuals award.

ATXtexanfan
05-30-2010, 11:45 AM
montana was great, i see the argument against but dude has a resume thats hard to punch holes through.

awtysst
05-30-2010, 11:50 AM
No he didn't, the San Francisco 49ers did. It's a team award, not an individuals award.

True but Joe Montana led 2 SF 49er teams to superbowls before Jerry Rice was on the team. And who was he throwing the ball to? Freddie Soloman, Lenvil Elliott, Mike Wilson, and Charlie Young? Sure Dwight Clark was there but he was not on the level of Jerry Rice.

New_Texans
05-30-2010, 11:52 AM
Does Rogers really belong in that group?

Hey now, Rodgers is just further proving how shitty David Carr was. Rodgers has a bad o-line and yet he still produces numbers and wins games...even with all the sacks hes taken.

Lucky
05-30-2010, 11:53 AM
No he didn't, the San Francisco 49ers did. It's a team award, not an individuals award.
It's actually a championship. It's won, not awarded. The individual award is the Super Bowl MVP. Joe Montana has been named the Super Bowl MVP on three occasions. The only player to achieve that distinction. Montana's Super Bowl statistics: 11 Passing TDs, 2 Rushing TDs. Zero interceptions.

rmartin65
05-30-2010, 12:26 PM
Montana's Super Bowl statistics: 11 Passing TDs, 2 Rushing TDs. Zero interceptions.

Damn, that is unbelievable. Unfreakingbelievable.

IDEXAN
05-30-2010, 03:07 PM
It's actually a championship. It's won, not awarded. The individual award is the Super Bowl MVP. Joe Montana has been named the Super Bowl MVP on three occasions. The only player to achieve that distinction. Montana's Super Bowl statistics: 11 Passing TDs, 2 Rushing TDs. Zero interceptions.
See but you're right back to the argument that those ole time sports writers like Lupica & Kornheiser make which is the QB on the team with the most SB wins (or the QB with the most MVP SB awards, as with Montana) is automatically the best QB because the big media-event, the SB should be the definitive factor in establishing who the best QB(s) are. Using that same premise for example, Bradshaw is automatically better than Elway or Farve or Marino or Manning or whoever.
Hey if that's your own personal criteria for determining the best QBs, OK fine, but I just don't buy into it.

WWJD
05-30-2010, 03:57 PM
When it counted Joe was absolutely money and he is on a very short list of the very best ever.

I don't see how that can even be questioned. The guy was just a winner.

Grforces
05-30-2010, 04:47 PM
Montana was a badass.. The two quarterbacks that i believe were 2nd tier on good teams were aikmen and kelly.

SheTexan
05-30-2010, 04:50 PM
Awwwwww the memories of Joe Montana!!!! One reason the Niners will always hold a special place in my old heart!!! My fav tean in the NFC, and always will be!! Would love to see a Texan/Niner SB! I can't lose!!

HoustonFrog
05-30-2010, 10:37 PM
I hated playing against Montana but I'd be a moron not to recognize how great he is. Talent around him or not he made plays when others faltered. He reminds me of Bird. Doesn't look like he should beat you or that he is athletic yet he had a massive fire to win, was ulta competitive and was a winner.

I find this conversation very interesting. It's interesting because many people have already made Schaub elite on one season. He is one of my favorite Texans. I've had the guys back since Day 1. I think he is a top QB when on the field and for this team. But alot of people who comment here will leave Rodgers out or say Romo is an overrated choke. Yet Romo's stats over the last 3 years are some of the best in history and the team has had winning records. He has just failed to win in the playoffs...1 win...but they are there. So why would Schaub, with no real record and similar stats be elite?Same with Rodgers. His stats were off the charts last year and his team won...11-5. I'm not saying either of those guys is elite but you can't put Schaub as close to elite if those guys aren't. Pretty much elite in the league is a small few...Manning, Brady, etc and then there are guys jockeying for that next level.

wagonhed
05-30-2010, 10:49 PM
Montana's Super Bowl statistics: 11 Passing TDs, 2 Rushing TDs. Zero interceptions.

Welp. I'm sold.

JB
05-30-2010, 10:56 PM
I hated playing against Montana but I'd be a moron not to recognize how great he is. Talent around him or not he made plays when others faltered. He reminds me of Bird. Doesn't ;ppl like she should beat you or that he is athletic yet he had a massive fire to win, was ulta competitive and was a winner.

I find this conversation very interesting. It's interesting because many people have already made Schaub elite on one season. He is one of my favorite Texans. I've had the guys back since Day 1. I think he is a top QB when on the field and for this team. But alot of people who comment here will leave Rodgers out or say Romo is an overrated choke. Yet Romo's stats over the last 3 years is some of the best in history and the team has had winning records. He has just failed to win in the playoffs...1 win...but they are there. So why would Schaub, with no real record and similar stats be elite?Same with Rodgers. His stats were off the charts last year and his team won...11-5. I'm not saying either of those guys is elite but you can't put Schaub as close to elite if those guys aren't. Pretty much elite in the league is a small few...Manning, Brady, etc and then there are guys jockeying for that next level.

I pretty much agree with all you are saying here. The thing that bothers me about Romo, he has too many outside distractions. Maybe not to him, but any qb in the news as much as he is for off the field stuff cannot be good.

I do not think there was any "great" qb that had so many. Joe Namath had a lot, but I do not consider him to be a great qb.

thunderkyss
05-31-2010, 12:39 AM
I hated playing against Montana but I'd be a moron not to recognize how great he is. Talent around him or not he made plays when others faltered. He reminds me of Bird. Doesn't ;ppl like she should beat you or that he is athletic yet he had a massive fire to win, was ulta competitive and was a winner.

I find this conversation very interesting. It's interesting because many people have already made Schaub elite on one season. He is one of my favorite Texans. I've had the guys back since Day 1. I think he is a top QB when on the field and for this team. But alot of people who comment here will leave Rodgers out or say Romo is an overrated choke. Yet Romo's stats over the last 3 years is some of the best in history and the team has had winning records. He has just failed to win in the playoffs...1 win...but they are there. So why would Schaub, with no real record and similar stats be elite?Same with Rodgers. His stats were off the charts last year and his team won...11-5. I'm not saying either of those guys is elite but you can't put Schaub as close to elite if those guys aren't. Pretty much elite in the league is a small few...Manning, Brady, etc and then there are guys jockeying for that next level.

Montana is elite... to think otherwise is just silly.

Schaub is not elite... on the right track, but not elite.

Romo... on the right track.

Rodgers is on the right track.

BoltWalt
05-31-2010, 05:21 AM
I rate Peyton Manning and John Elway the 2 greatest QBs ever, whether or not thaey've got a single SB victory between them. And Montana isn't in there league IMO.Yes he was, they all were in the NFL.:lol:

BoltWalt
05-31-2010, 05:46 AM
Bill Walsh had this to say (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.aspx?RELEASE_ID=721) about Montana:
"Joe Montana is the greatest quarterback today, maybe the greatest quarterback of all time."

Bill Walsh said it, and that's good enough for me.
Bill Walsh also moved Young ahead of Montana on the depth chart, so you have to wonder about the conviction of his statement.

As for Schaub being an elite QB, the same thing that keeps Phillip Rivers from being considered an elite QB, No Super Bowl Victory. Sadly that seems to be the Bench Mark for many people to consider a QB elite. Not me though, I go back to Dan Fouts who I considered elite and he never made it to a Super Bowl, just the Hall of Fame. Thanks to a team from your town, you remember the Oilers? :pissed:

thunderkyss
05-31-2010, 06:38 AM
Bill Walsh also moved Young ahead of Montana on the depth chart, so you have to wonder about the conviction of his statement.

As for Schaub being an elite QB, the same thing that keeps Phillip Rivers from being considered an elite QB, No Super Bowl Victory. Sadly that seems to be the Bench Mark for many people to consider a QB elite. Not me though, I go back to Dan Fouts who I considered elite and he never made it to a Super Bowl, just the Hall of Fame. Thanks to a team from your town, you remember the Oilers? :pissed:

I'd say Marino was definitely elite.... no rings. So I don't think that is the mark of an elite QB.

Phillip Rivers, Schaub, Rodgers, Manning (Eli) need to keep winning, and keep performing at a high level. Doing it over a substantial period of time... that is what seperates the elite from the pretty good.

otisbean
05-31-2010, 07:11 AM
I think any QB in the top 10 in the league is elite, and I would say Schaub is in the top 10 now. There have been numerous elite QBs that didn't win a super bowl, Marino, Kelly, Moon, Tarkenton, Fouts, McNabb, McNair, Palmer ect....

Lucky
05-31-2010, 07:51 AM
Bill Walsh also moved Young ahead of Montana on the depth chart, so you have to wonder about the conviction of his statement.
Um, no he didn't. Walsh retired after Super Bowl XXIII. Montana led the Niners to another Super Bowl win (under head coach George Seifert) the following year. Montana was traded to Kansas City in 1993 after 2 injury plagued seasons that saw him throw 21 passes.

beerlover
05-31-2010, 10:01 AM
What do you guys think schaub has to do to be considered an elite QB? He did great 09 season, and has steadily improved. If he stays healthy I consider him to be top 5. He has good accuracy short, medium, and deep. Has a great play action even though the run game is almost non-existent. He obviously has to win in the division but I don't blame him as much as I do our play calling.

accuracy & decision making under pressure.

datchapin
05-31-2010, 01:28 PM
Consistency, Schaub has played at an elite level, statwise for 1 yr. He is now in his what 6th yr. Eli and Rivers came out that same yr. right. If Eli who won a superbowl and had steady production isn't elite, then neither is Schaub. Rivers has consistently led his team to the postseason and his downfield accuracy is amazing. Another guy who is ahead of Schaub. Daunte Culpepper had an elite season, but was never an elite QB. Schaub has to produce at this level at least 2 more yrs. before I would even dub him an "elite QB".

drs23
05-31-2010, 02:24 PM
I'm not sure if it equates to being elite or an overall ranking but NFLN has the top 10 fantasy QBs listed as:

1) Aaron Rodgers

2) Drew Brees

3) Payton Manning

4) Tom Brady

5) Philip Rivers

6) Matt Schaub

7) Tony Romo

8) Brett Favre

9) Jay Cutler

10) Eli Manning

Alot of folks have said Matt is a top 5. Not being a homer but I can see Rivers and Matt being swapped. Having said that he's certainly a top ten talent and will only get better.

thunderkyss
05-31-2010, 05:32 PM
I'm not sure if it equates to being elite or an overall ranking but NFLN has the top 10 fantasy QBs listed as:

1) Aaron Rodgers

2) Drew Brees

3) Payton Manning

4) Tom Brady

5) Philip Rivers

6) Matt Schaub

7) Tony Romo

8) Brett Favre

9) Jay Cutler

10) Eli Manning

Alot of folks have said Matt is a top 5. Not being a homer but I can see Rivers and Matt being swapped. Having said that he's certainly a top ten talent and will only get better.

THere was a time when John Kitna legitimately belonged on that list, but he has never been elite.

b0ng
05-31-2010, 10:13 PM
THere was a time when John Kitna legitimately belonged on that list, but he has never been elite.

I heard he could pray like nobody's business.

threetoedpete
06-01-2010, 12:05 PM
Basically the media made Montana one of the greatest ever, and that's primarily because he was the QB for a very good if not great team which won multiple SBs while he was on that team. But then the media is, well it's the media which means it's all about media events and there's no bigger media event in sports than the SB.
I rate Peyton Manning and John Elway the 2 greatest QBs ever, whether or not they've got a single SB victory between them. And Montana isn't in there league IMO.

Twenty seven straight road wins. Wake me when someone else gets close. I'd settle for four in a row from our crew on the road this season.

Matt is one season away from making all sixteen. The fact that he played the last third with his shoulder in a brace means he isn't soft. And he should of won over the others in the huddle last year. And in terms of accuracy he threw a couple of balls last year which should become Texan's legend. But, he hasn't swept the colts yet nor finished a season with a wining record against the division. Wanna be the best you have to beat the best. So far all people will remember looking back at Matt Schuab and this ball club, fair or not, is 1-7 against Manning.

disaacks3
06-01-2010, 01:11 PM
I think that is basically right, except he needs to show he is not a one-year wonder. If he performs next year on par with how he performed last year, I believe he will then be recognized in most circles as an elite QB. That's pretty much it. If he can keep up the pace for another year or two, he WILL be considered elite. If he takes the Texans to the playoffs, it'll help in the equation as well.

Texas T
06-01-2010, 01:12 PM
As a lot of the other posters here have already said (but I thought I should put in my 2 cents) it is consistancy and winning.

He has put up good numbers but has only played one complete (16 game) season. If he is able to continue at the level of last year he will quickly be put in the "elite" category.

And putting a whooping on one Payton Manning wouldn't hurt either.

BoltWalt
06-01-2010, 11:34 PM
Um, no he didn't. Walsh retired after Super Bowl XXIII. Montana led the Niners to another Super Bowl win (under head coach George Seifert) the following year. Montana was traded to Kansas City in 1993 after 2 injury plagued seasons that saw him throw 21 passes.
I stand corrected then. Thank you Sir.

BoltWalt
06-01-2010, 11:54 PM
I'm not sure if it equates to being elite or an overall ranking but NFLN has the top 10 fantasy QBs listed as:

1) Aaron Rodgers

2) Drew Brees

3) Payton Manning

4) Tom Brady

5) Philip Rivers

6) Matt Schaub

7) Tony Romo

8) Brett Favre

9) Jay Cutler

10) Eli Manning

Alot of folks have said Matt is a top 5. Not being a homer but I can see Rivers and Matt being swapped. Having said that he's certainly a top ten talent and will only get better.

I just don't see Jay as even a viable Fantasy QB, as a bolt fan I had been seeing him at least twice a year and never saw what so many others had seen in him. I am still disappointed that he was traded away from the Donkos, I was hoping for many more years of seeing the Bolts own him. I was hoping Schuab would not make these kind of lists because I was hoping to draft him low as a real bargain. It is amazing how thorough the research is in Fantasy Football, nobody is missed and at worst players are called sleepers.

Goldensilence
06-02-2010, 12:03 AM
Strap it up for another full 16 game season and repeat what he did this past year.

To be elite you can't just have one good year. I don't get why some people are so ready to place him in elite status. Right now I'd say Real good starting QB.

Then again I place elite as a few QBs in this league.

Manning , Brady and Brees. Those cats are elite.

ObsiWan
06-02-2010, 12:15 AM
Get this team to the playoffs and we'll talk elite, but until then, he's just at the very top of the second tier of quarterbacks.

End of discussion.
Have you EVER heard ANY QB that was considered "Elite" that has NO playoff appearances on his resume'??
Nope.
Until Schaub carries the Texans to the playoffs, he cannot be considered "elite".

ObsiWan
06-02-2010, 12:44 AM
Basically the media made Montana one of the greatest ever, and that's primarily because he was the QB for a very good if not great team which won multiple SBs while he was on that team. But then the media is, well it's the media which means it's all about media events and there's no bigger media event in sports than the SB.
I rate Peyton Manning and John Elway the 2 greatest QBs ever, whether or not thaey've got a single SB victory between them. And Montana isn't in there league IMO.

What?!?
[John McInroe voice]
http://auntiefashion.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/john-mcenroe.jpg

You CANNOT be serious!

Montana has more Super Bowl victories (four) than both Manning and Elway put together (three).

And you need to go back and check the rosters on those respective Super Bowl teams. Elway rode the back of Terrell Davis to his two Super Bowl wins. And Manning out-dueled the fabulous Rex Grossman (sarcasm smiley here) to get his ONLY Super Bowl win. When The Peyton faced a real QB in the Super Bowl, Drew Brees, he got beat.

Montana won his first Super Bowl win (SB XVI) in his THIRD year in the league. How long did it take Manning or Elway to finally get to a Super Bowl in Manning's case, or to win one in Elway's case.

And, OBTW, in the BIG game, Montana faced AND BEAT, in order
- Ken Anderson (Leading passer and NFL MVP that year)
- Dan Marino (the year he broke the single season passing record by becoming the first QB to throw over 5000 yds and smashed the single season TD pass record)
- Boomer Esiason (the NFL MVP that year)
- and your beloved John Elway (who sucked that year with a 73.7 QB rating but once again, his team carried him to a Super Bowl appearance ...oh and did I mention Montana beat Elway's Broncos 55-10?)

Manning and Elway WISH they were as good as Montana.
:D

thunderkyss
06-02-2010, 02:44 AM
I think it's the generation gap speaking.

These guys consider Brady Elite, but not Montana? Very similar if you ask me. In accomplishments, and percieved talent.

Don't get me wrong, Brady ain't no Montana, yet he is similar.

otisbean
06-02-2010, 05:53 AM
What?!?
[John McInroe voice]
http://auntiefashion.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/john-mcenroe.jpg

You CANNOT be serious!

Montana has more Super Bowl victories (four) than both Manning and Elway put together (three).

And you need to go back and check the rosters on those respective Super Bowl teams. Elway rode the back of Terrell Davis to his two Super Bowl wins. And Manning out-dueled the fabulous Rex Grossman (sarcasm smiley here) to get his ONLY Super Bowl win. When The Peyton faced a real QB in the Super Bowl, Drew Brees, he got beat.

Montana won his first Super Bowl win (SB XVI) in his THIRD year in the league. How long did it take Manning or Elway to finally get to a Super Bowl in Manning's case, or to win one in Elway's case.

And, OBTW, in the BIG game, Montana faced AND BEAT, in order
- Ken Anderson (Leading passer and NFL MVP that year)
- Dan Marino (the year he broke the single season passing record by becoming the first QB to throw over 5000 yds and smashed the single season TD pass record)
- Boomer Esiason (the NFL MVP that year)
- and your beloved John Elway (who sucked that year with a 73.7 QB rating but once again, his team carried him to a Super Bowl appearance ...oh and did I mention Montana beat Elway's Broncos 55-10?)

Manning and Elway WISH they were as good as Montana.
:D

Ok, normally I don't get involved with these type of debates, however, while Montana was excellent, to say Elway wasn't in his class is absurd. You mention Elway riding TD to victory, how about playing with Rice, Taylor, Craig, Rathman, Clark, an excellent OL, a terrific D. SF had stacked teams from top to bottom.

Elway went to the SB with 3 mediocre teams. The 3 amigos were WAAYYY overrated. Sammy Winder and Bobby Humphry were mediocre at best. The 2 years he had solid talent they won.

I would bet any amount of money if Elway played on the same SF teams Montana had he would have MANY more rings than he has now.

b0ng
06-02-2010, 08:55 AM
Ok, normally I don't get involved with these type of debates, however, while Montana was excellent, to say Elway wasn't in his class is absurd. You mention Elway riding TD to victory, how about playing with Rice, Taylor, Craig, Rathman, Clark, an excellent OL, a terrific D. SF had stacked teams from top to bottom.

Elway went to the SB with 3 mediocre teams. The 3 amigos were WAAYYY overrated. Sammy Winder and Bobby Humphry were mediocre at best. The 2 years he had solid talent they won.

I would bet any amount of money if Elway played on the same SF teams Montana had he would have MANY more rings than he has now.

Just because it's already been said once and better than I could have said it:

Montana won 2 Super Bowls before Jerry Rice was even in the league. Rice was the only HOFer Montana played with on offense. Other than Steve Young, who was Montana's backup for 4 seasons. The Niners were not dripping with talent. They were the best coached team in the league guided by the premier field general of the era.

Now if you want to make a case that Montana had an advantage over other QBs due to coaching, I would agree. Bill Walsh may be the greatest offensive mind in the history of the NFL. His coaching tree still dominates the NFL landscape. After the Niners 2nd Super Bowl win (over the Dolphins and Dan Marino and without Jerry Rice), Bill Walsh had this to say about Montana:

"Joe Montana is the greatest quarterback today, maybe the greatest quarterback of all time."

Bill Walsh said it, and that's good enough for me.

Tailgate
06-02-2010, 08:58 AM
WINS. Period. Consistently winning not only in the regular season, but wins in the post season.

Texas T
06-02-2010, 09:21 AM
I think it's the generation gap speaking.

These guys consider Brady Elite, but not Montana? Very similar if you ask me. In accomplishments, and percieved talent.

Don't get me wrong, Brady ain't no Montana, yet he is similar.

Excellent!! :perfect10:

I was just thinking the same thing.

I think the younger folks should check out these guys before speaking out.
It was definately a different game in the 70's and 80's.

badboy
06-02-2010, 03:13 PM
I think he is an elite QB already
Agreed. One more year with last years results and the nation will be talking about him. It helped being in the pro bowl. A couple pay off games wouls add exposure and have a running game this season should do a lot.

ObsiWan
06-02-2010, 04:59 PM
Ok, normally I don't get involved with these type of debates, however, while Montana was excellent, to say Elway wasn't in his class is absurd. You mention Elway riding TD to victory, how about playing with Rice, Taylor, Craig, Rathman, Clark, an excellent OL, a terrific D. SF had stacked teams from top to bottom.

Elway went to the SB with 3 mediocre teams. The 3 amigos were WAAYYY overrated. Sammy Winder and Bobby Humphry were mediocre at best. The 2 years he had solid talent they won.

I would bet any amount of money if Elway played on the same SF teams Montana had he would have MANY more rings than he has now.

Even the first two where Montana's top WRs were Freddie Solomon and Dwight Clark and his RBs were Ricky Patton and Earl Cooper. OBTW, neither of those two had more than 800 total yds from scrimmage. Oh yeah, Montana's teams were ALWAYS stuffed with top-name talent. NOT.

Now, again, if your argument is that Montana had Bill Walsh - probably the best strategic coach ever - to come up with the game plans. I'll grudgingly concede that point.

I'll give you this, Elway was more of a stud athletically; he definitely had the stronger arm. So I didn't mean to imply that Elway was chopped liver; sorry if it came across that way. But Montana had a higher football I.Q. (again, maybe that's Walsh) and was more of a winner and that's what counts.

otisbean
06-03-2010, 05:14 AM
Even the first two where Montana's top WRs were Freddie Solomon and Dwight Clark and his RBs were Ricky Patton and Earl Cooper. OBTW, neither of those two had more than 800 total yds from scrimmage. Oh yeah, Montana's teams were ALWAYS stuffed with top-name talent. NOT.

Now, again, if your argument is that Montana had Bill Walsh - probably the best strategic coach ever - to come up with the game plans. I'll grudgingly concede that point.

I'll give you this, Elway was more of a stud athletically; he definitely had the stronger arm. So I didn't mean to imply that Elway was chopped liver; sorry if it came across that way. But Montana had a higher football I.Q. (again, maybe that's Walsh) and was more of a winner and that's what counts.

I could be wrong but I thought the 9ers first 2 two were '81 and '84, I thought the '84 team was stacked. I could be wrong though.

I think Montana is awesome, one of the best of all time. I think Elway's first three SB team were mediocre, and that Elway carried them. Truth be told if I were starting a franchise I love to have either guy

I tell you what would have been awesome, to see the 9ers best team play the Broncos with Elway and TD. That'd be a hell of a game.