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Kimmy
05-24-2010, 08:23 PM
At least we are not last ...

Tier 4
Houston Texans: This is the third year in a row the cries to elevate the Texans into Tier 2 are loud and clear. They lost offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, linebacker Brian Cushing starts the year with a four-game suspension and they let their best corner, Dunta Robinson, go in free agency. Plus, the Texans still have to clear a hurdle known as Peyton Manning if they are ever to win the division title

NFL Offseason Tier Rankings (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8184857e&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

Carr Bombed
05-24-2010, 08:27 PM
At least we are not last ...



NFL Offseason Tier Rankings (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8184857e&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

LOL, What a joke...so the Cardinals lose their top tier QB and replace him with a previous 1st round bust and they're still ahead of us?

Plus LMAO at the 9ers being a 2nd tier team in this league.

TexanSam
05-24-2010, 08:29 PM
We're still ahead of Tennessee and Jacksonville according to the list. Everyone in the AFC South except for Indy is in his tier 4

Grforces
05-24-2010, 08:42 PM
yeah it pissed me off when I saw this. We are alot better then tier 4. Marshall faulk put us on the top 10 for 2010. He put us ahead of the colts. Texans wont ever get the respect they deserve until we put away some good teams.

dalemurphy
05-24-2010, 08:44 PM
At least we are not last ...



NFL Offseason Tier Rankings (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8184857e&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

I love Kirwin. But, he's very tied into particular relationships inside the NFL and it clouds is perspective on some things. For instance, he was a big Buffalo fan and often predicted very good seasons for them because he really likes Dick Jauron.
It's not only that the Texans don't get respect because it's a young organization but also because this group of coaches/front office don't have relationships with much of the media. As a result, they don't get much attention.

Kirwin actually said last year after the Cincy game that he believes the Bengals are more talented and in a better position to succeed over the next few seasons... (pretty silly!)

devo-x
05-24-2010, 10:06 PM
Hmm.. Was Dunta Robinson the best corner on the Texans last year?

dalemurphy
05-24-2010, 10:29 PM
Hmm.. Was Dunta Robinson the best corner on the Texans last year?

Based on what we were paying him, what he signed in Atlanta for, name recognition, draft position, etc.... YES. And, those are the factors that often going into perceptions of the Texans. After all, Kirwin doesn't watch the Texans games closely, have any inside sources, or attend training camp. There are fans on this board that watch every game and still think Dunta was our best CB. Quin was clearly our best CB last year... but, no talking head is going to go out on a limb with a rookie 4th rounder who didn't make 7 or 8 interceptions.

wagonhed
05-25-2010, 12:11 AM
Yeah, nice rankings....

not.

:texflag:

painekiller
05-25-2010, 01:40 AM
I don't think we are an elite team yet, but we are by no means below the Bengals, Giants and 49ers.

Malloy
05-25-2010, 02:33 AM
hehe, I like the fact that one of the reasons we're tier4 is that we play Manning twice a year... interesting :)

infantrycak
05-25-2010, 08:33 AM
Atlanta Falcons: I like the progress QB Matt Ryan has made and with the addition of Dunta Robinson at corner, the defense should match up better against the Saints. Atlanta lost to New Orleans twice last year by a combined 11 points and should be right back in contention with the defending champs.

Funny, that comment could have been said about the Texans and Indy but wasn't.

And last I checked progress meant getting better. Ryan had a regression last year and was down on yards, ypa, completion % and QB rating. Now Schaub was up on all those things but I guess he didn't like his progress.

Thorn
05-25-2010, 01:16 PM
Who cares? I mean really. Does it matter that some yo-yo that doesn't know the team half as good as we do splashes his crap on the public?

Besides which, it's not like the Texans have a history of winning or anything.

b0ng
05-25-2010, 01:22 PM
Predictions in May are both interesting and exciting!

BIG TORO
05-25-2010, 01:37 PM
Im not even going to comment on this Bull*****!

Damn I just commented!

Second Honeymoon
05-25-2010, 02:13 PM
Hmm.. Was Dunta Robinson the best corner on the Texans last year?

yes. he was coming off a major knee injury so anyone who expected him to come in without any problems, was delusional....but because he wrote on his shoes and because his play wasn't all that great coming off an injury, he was ran out of town. We could have had him for another year with no strings attached...but it was more important to save money than improve the football team. classic losing football team...and 9-7 or not, this franchise has been a loser on the football field. one 9-7 season doth not a franchise make.

and the salary cap excuse doesn't hold water because there is no salary cap this year....maybe all the years about them whining about dead money and salary cap was really just an excuse all along. McNair sucks....but sorry for saying that. after all, he donated the team to this city as a sign of goodwill and should be rememembered right alongside Jesus, Mother Theresa, and the Pope....but let him cry poverty some more at the owner's meetings. after all $500 million increase in the value of your team just isn't enough nowadays. dude is just days away from the poor house. poor Bob.

even with average play he was our best CB and now a full year+ removed from knee surgery, he will do well in Atlanta and leave the front office looking like cheapskating morons....per usual. Go Texans.

the Texans deserve no credit for this offseason....one of the worst we have ever had but why should they care? they had a winning season. break open the champagne and start the parades, Houston.

but at least the beer is cold and the tailgating is good because the commitment to winning is pathetic.

El Tejano
05-25-2010, 02:17 PM
yeah it pissed me off when I saw this. We are alot better then tier 4. Marshall faulk put us on the top 10 for 2010. He put us ahead of the colts. Texans wont ever get the respect they deserve until we put away some good teams.

And Marshall hasn't been kind to The Texans in years past.

Second Honeymoon
05-25-2010, 02:20 PM
I don't think we are an elite team yet, but we are by no means below the Bengals, Giants and 49ers.

we should be below the Giants though but not the 9ers and Bengals. Giants had lots of injuries last year...and yes, much more than our Texans. The Giants win championships and make the playoffs. To act like we are better than them is lunacy. Let's try and beat some good teams instead of the Rams, Seahawks, Browns, Raiders, and Bills before we start bumping our chest. 1-5 in division is pathetic and no excuse...should ahve been 0-6 if not for Kerry Collins fumbling the game away for the Titans.

plus the whole Plaxidumbass thing....Giants are better than us until we prove otherwise.

Dutchrudder
05-25-2010, 02:48 PM
Yeah... his ratings are a bit weird. I know the Cowboys have a lot of things working, but you might want to see their offensive line perform before labeling them 'Tier 1'. They have questions at tackle, which could kill their passing game.

The Giants certainly are not Tier 2 right now. They had a lot of injury issues last year that they will need to get past. I'd put them at Tier 4.

The Cardinals are going to be a Tier 4 team this year. Anderson and Leinart aren't the answer at QB, and they lost Dansby and Boldin. That would be like the Texans losing Ryans and Walter this offseason.

I think the Dolphins deserve a bump up to Tier 2 given all their moves this year. They got Marshall and Dansby who are both impact players. If they can get a full season out of Brown and Williams, they should be well off.

The Texans deserve to be Tier 3, middle of the pack expectations. 8-9 wins each of the last 3 years is consistent with Tier 3 performance.

The Redskins might turn out to be a Tier 3 team or better, but that team is all jumbled up right now, and I seriously doubt they do better than 8-8 this year. Two seasons from now they should be contending for the division title, but they are still going to have issues on offense for this year. I'd put them at Tier 4.

Indy Skinnz
05-26-2010, 07:33 AM
This is just not a phenomenon for Texans fans but fans of all NFL teams.
There are some universal message board truths all throughout this thread.

1) The writer dissing a fan's team is clearly an ***** - in this case Pat Kirwan.
2) An analyst who praises a fan's team, in this case Marshall Faulk, is obviously an all-knowing football savant.
3) The writer dismissing a team as only worthy of Tier 4 in his rankings clearly does not study said team nearly as thoroughly as fans of said team.
4) Then there are those who recognize predictions in May are about as worthless as the paper those predictions are written on.

Colts fan's or any other fans would have the exact same reaction if the roles were reversed so I don't mean this as a slight at all towards Houston fans. Just pointing out that the reactions are pretty standard and very predictable.

dalemurphy
05-26-2010, 08:09 AM
yes. he was coming off a major knee injury so anyone who expected him to come in without any problems, was delusional....but because he wrote on his shoes and because his play wasn't all that great coming off an injury, he was ran out of town. We could have had him for another year with no strings attached...but it was more important to save money than improve the football team. classic losing football team...and 9-7 or not, this franchise has been a loser on the football field. one 9-7 season doth not a franchise make.

and the salary cap excuse doesn't hold water because there is no salary cap this year....maybe all the years about them whining about dead money and salary cap was really just an excuse all along. McNair sucks....but sorry for saying that. after all, he donated the team to this city as a sign of goodwill and should be rememembered right alongside Jesus, Mother Theresa, and the Pope....but let him cry poverty some more at the owner's meetings. after all $500 million increase in the value of your team just isn't enough nowadays. dude is just days away from the poor house. poor Bob.

even with average play he was our best CB and now a full year+ removed from knee surgery, he will do well in Atlanta and leave the front office looking like cheapskating morons....per usual. Go Texans.

the Texans deserve no credit for this offseason....one of the worst we have ever had but why should they care? they had a winning season. break open the champagne and start the parades, Houston.

but at least the beer is cold and the tailgating is good because the commitment to winning is pathetic.

I'm going to ignore most of this obnoxious rant and focus on Dunta. You do realize that his knee injury happened in 2007? He played the entire second half of 2008... And, you are telling me that his poor performance in 2009 is due to the lingering affects of the 2007 injury but that he will be healthy and return to his 2004 form this season... okay. I guess we'll see.

You make a decent point that we could've franchised him without ramifications beyond McNair's wallet. That being said, giving a guy $12 million that played as poorly as he did and clearly was more concerned with protecting himself from injury than helping the team win might not have been received well in the locker room... Imagine how that could've affected the potential AJ and OD holdouts.

Regarding Dunta, he has never been anything more than average in coverage. We all loved his physical and aggressive play and overestimated his cover skills because we liked him and because of his early success opposite Aaron Glenn.

SH... How about a gentlemen's wager? You set up the criteria. Tell me what statistics/results we use. I'll bet you that the secondary play is significantly better this year than last. You tell me how you want to measure that and we can meet on these boards every Monday starting in September, go over the results, and one of us can say "I told you so" and the other can eat some crow. How about it?

Interceptions?
Passes Defensed?
YPA?
points allowed?
any set of stats you want...

dalemurphy
05-26-2010, 08:12 AM
This is just not a phenomenon for Texans fans but fans of all NFL teams.
There are some universal message board truths all throughout this thread.

1) The writer dissing a fan's team is clearly an ***** - in this case Pat Kirwan.
2) An analyst who praises a fan's team, in this case Marshall Faulk, is obviously an all-knowing football savant.
3) The writer dismissing a team as only worthy of Tier 4 in his rankings clearly does not study said team nearly as thoroughly as fans of said team.
4) Then there are those who recognize predictions in May are about as worthless as the paper those predictions are written on.

Colts fan's or any other fans would have the exact same reaction if the roles were reversed so I don't mean this as a slight at all towards Houston fans. Just pointing out that the reactions are pretty standard and very predictable.


Hey, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me!

BigBull17
05-26-2010, 08:19 AM
I'm going to ignore most of this obnoxious rant and focus on Dunta. You do realize that his knee injury happened in 2007? He played the entire second half of 2008... And, you are telling me that his poor performance in 2009 is due to the lingering affects of the 2007 injury but that he will be healthy and return to his 2004 form this season... okay. I guess we'll see.

You make a decent point that we could've franchised him without ramifications beyond McNair's wallet. That being said, giving a guy $12 million that played as poorly as he did and clearly was more concerned with protecting himself from injury than helping the team win might not have been received well in the locker room... Imagine how that could've affected the potential AJ and OD holdouts.

Regarding Dunta, he has never been anything more than average in coverage. We all loved his physical and aggressive play and overestimated his cover skills because we liked him and because of his early success opposite Aaron Glenn.

SH... How about a gentlemen's wager? You set up the criteria. Tell me what statistics/results we use. I'll bet you that the secondary play is significantly better this year than last. You tell me how you want to measure that and we can meet on these boards every Monday starting in September, go over the results, and one of us can say "I told you so" and the other can eat some crow. How about it?

Interceptions?
Passes Defensed?
YPA?
points allowed?
any set of stats you want...

I know its just numbers but: http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/05/are_the_texans_toast_kc_joyner.html

Glover Quin - 61 att, 369 yds, 6.0 YPA, YPA ranked 20th best in the league (out of 100 qualifying CBs - 25 attempts needed to qualify - the qualifying number is so low because if it weren't, Nnamdi Asomugha could not be included)

Jacques Reeves - 39 att, 286 yds, 7.3 YPA, YPA ranked 49th best in the league

Dunta Robinson - 69 att, 582 yds, 8.4 YPA, YPA ranked 77th in league - losing Robinson is not a huge loss, as these totals are similar to what he has put up his entire career"

Dunta was absolutly not the best CB on our team. As you see by the numbers he was third. Also, you see its not just the leg. People are gonna be shocked to see we don't miss a beat without 23, but he is the most overrated FA in this crop.

b0ng
05-26-2010, 08:41 AM
I would be cheap too if I was in control of DR's pay. That guy has been hot garbage for a little while and in no way has his play justified his stratospheric pay increase.

Also, Second Honeymoon is a broken record.

CharloTex
05-26-2010, 05:19 PM
This is just not a phenomenon for Texans fans but fans of all NFL teams.
There are some universal message board truths all throughout this thread.

1) The writer dissing a fan's team is clearly an ***** - in this case Pat Kirwan.
2) An analyst who praises a fan's team, in this case Marshall Faulk, is obviously an all-knowing football savant.
3) The writer dismissing a team as only worthy of Tier 4 in his rankings clearly does not study said team nearly as thoroughly as fans of said team.
4) Then there are those who recognize predictions in May are about as worthless as the paper those predictions are written on.

Colts fan's or any other fans would have the exact same reaction if the roles were reversed so I don't mean this as a slight at all towards Houston fans. Just pointing out that the reactions are pretty standard and very predictable.

"standard and predictable"?

Yeah, if your sh*t in my mess kit, my reaction is going to be pretty standard and predictable. He named 2 things that are changes to our annual status - Dunta Robinson, and Cushing. Robinson was at best a slightly above average corner for us last year (last 2 years collectively, average at best, including absent). Cushing is only one dude, dude (Kirwan). And he's only out 4 games. Those two things are enough to bump us from last years top of the third tier (the best team to not make the playoffs) down to the 4th tier, labeled a long shot to make the playoffs? This is total BS in my mess kit.

The fact that we play the Colts twice every year is not a change, and we managed last year's record even though we threw away our two Colts games, thank you very much.

CharloTex
05-26-2010, 05:21 PM
Hey, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me!

That ^

SteveSlaton20
05-26-2010, 08:49 PM
only two teams had a better record than the texans in tier two. what the hell is that. idiots.

thunderkyss
05-27-2010, 04:16 AM
Texans wont ever get the respect they deserve until we put away some good teams.

I understand this, and I agree it should be that way. I think it's a plus, that at least he put us at the top of tier 4.

But I do not like the teams we are lumped in there with, and I don't like many of the other teams being ahead of us.

The Redskins... Hello!!???

Packers are not tier one, & I've got questions about the Vikings.

Jets, Ravens... tier 2? I'm not seeing it. That's the group I think we belong in... Bengals don't belong.

For me
Tier 1: Colts, Patriots, Chargers, Cowboys, Saints

Tier 2: Jets, Ravens, Dolphins, Texans, Titans, Steelers, Eagles, Vikings, Falcons

Tier 3: Jaguars, Bengals, Broncos, Packers, Giants, Panthers, Seahawks,

Tier 4: Chiefs, Raiders, Bills, Browns, 49ers, Cardinals, Redskins, Bears, Buccaneers, Lions, Rams

BigBull17
05-27-2010, 07:14 AM
I understand this, and I agree it should be that way. I think it's a plus, that at least he put us at the top of tier 4.

But I do not like the teams we are lumped in there with, and I don't like many of the other teams being ahead of us.

The Redskins... Hello!!???

Packers are not tier one, & I've got questions about the Vikings.

Jets, Ravens... tier 2? I'm not seeing it. That's the group I think we belong in... Bengals don't belong.

For me
Tier 1: Colts, Patriots, Chargers, Cowboys, Saints

Tier 2: Jets, Ravens, Dolphins, Texans, Titans, Steelers, Eagles, Vikings, Falcons

Tier 3: Jaguars, Bengals, Broncos, Packers, Giants, Panthers, Seahawks,

Tier 4: Chiefs, Raiders, Bills, Browns, 49ers, Cardinals, Redskins, Bears, Buccaneers, Lions, Rams

Intresting, we agree. I hate the Tits, but until it happens, Im not gonna bet on them being bad. They some how, despite questionable QB play, win.

Dutchrudder
05-27-2010, 08:31 AM
Intresting, we agree. I hate the Tits, but until it happens, Im not gonna bet on them being bad. They some how, despite questionable QB play, win.

That 'some how' is named Chris Johnson and a good offensive line. As a Texans fan, we can only hope their offensive line deteriorates, which will make CJ's job as hard as Slaton's was last year :D

BigBull17
05-27-2010, 08:55 AM
That 'some how' is named Chris Johnson and a good offensive line. As a Texans fan, we can only hope their offensive line deteriorates, which will make CJ's job as hard as Slaton's was last year :D

Yeah, CJ is a beast. Their line is great. Fisher is a pretty damn good coach, though he goes a little crazy from time to time. Their D plays better than their rankings.

JB
05-27-2010, 08:59 AM
Yeah, CJ is a beast. Their line is great. Fisher is a pretty damn good coach, though he goes a little crazy from time to time. Their D plays better than their rankings.

Their secondary was atrocious last year!

Second Honeymoon
05-27-2010, 10:39 AM
I'm going to ignore most of this obnoxious rant and focus on Dunta. You do realize that his knee injury happened in 2007? He played the entire second half of 2008... And, you are telling me that his poor performance in 2009 is due to the lingering affects of the 2007 injury but that he will be healthy and return to his 2004 form this season... okay. I guess we'll see.

You make a decent point that we could've franchised him without ramifications beyond McNair's wallet. That being said, giving a guy $12 million that played as poorly as he did and clearly was more concerned with protecting himself from injury than helping the team win might not have been received well in the locker room... Imagine how that could've affected the potential AJ and OD holdouts.

Regarding Dunta, he has never been anything more than average in coverage. We all loved his physical and aggressive play and overestimated his cover skills because we liked him and because of his early success opposite Aaron Glenn.

SH... How about a gentlemen's wager? You set up the criteria. Tell me what statistics/results we use. I'll bet you that the secondary play is significantly better this year than last. You tell me how you want to measure that and we can meet on these boards every Monday starting in September, go over the results, and one of us can say "I told you so" and the other can eat some crow. How about it?

Interceptions?
Passes Defensed?
YPA?
points allowed?
any set of stats you want...

Dunta was our #1 corner...how could our secondary get better?

I just feel people hate on Dunta and act like he sucked. He was our best corner since we let go of Aaron Glenn for financial reasons (being cheap).

I don't see how taking him away makes us better. Just sayin.

as for a wager, I am not going to bet that my team or part of my team is going to suck. I want them to be good so wagering that they will be bad would just be being a bad fan.

as for being a broken record, b0ng, if being honest makes me a broken record, so be it. give me something to be positive about and i have no problem being positive....9-7 aint enough.

b0ng
05-27-2010, 10:49 AM
Their secondary was atrocious last year!

It was also pretty injured as well. If you notice VY's ascension to awesome pretty much started when the O-line got healthy again and the secondary could cover for about 2 or 3 seconds.

Also, I think their defense could take a little bit of a dive unless that 1st rounder they picked is the second coming of Jevon Kearse.

infantrycak
05-27-2010, 11:28 AM
Dunta was our #1 corner...how could our secondary get better?

Not real hard to figure out - if Kareem Jackson is better than Dunta then it will get better.

I just feel people hate on Dunta and act like he sucked. He was our best corner since we let go of Aaron Glenn for financial reasons (being cheap).

I don't think Dunta sucked at all, but he was an average starting CB at best and wanted way too much money. And Aaron Glenn asked to be released. Constrain your cheap allegations to at least arguable allegations.

threetoedpete
05-28-2010, 10:38 AM
yeah it pissed me off when I saw this. We are alot better then tier 4. Marshall Faulk put us on the top 10 for 2010. He put us ahead of the colts. Texans wont ever get the respect they deserve until we put away some good teams.

Wake me when we sweep the Colts and have a 5-1 division record. The reason it hurts is there is more than a ring of truth here. 1-15 against Manning is more than a trend. You gotta figure one of these years the guys will get tired of it and do something about it. All the little "accidents" that get us beat against the Colts comes down to one thing. They aren't mentally tough enough to be a champion. You make you own luck by preparation. The way they've been beat down like a red headed step child you would believe they'd be working so hard at OTAs they'd have to crawl back to the dressing room after the work out was over. Every one is fat and happy. We'll see if 2010 is the year we get "lucky".

threetoedpete
05-28-2010, 10:54 AM
I would be cheap too if I was in control of DR's pay. That guy has been hot garbage for a little while and in no way has his play justified his stratospheric pay increase.

Also, Second Honeymoon is a broken record.

I stand to disagree. Warm Garbage ? the guy flung his body on the edge and stuck his nose in where angels wouldn't tread. However, in terms of production, namely turnovers, he couldn't catch a cold. And was no where worth ten million dollars. But the guy can play the run and cover. He just doesn't make plays. And hasn't since his rookie season. We'll see if Jackson can play the run and hold the edge. If he can, and he gets a couple of turnovers during the season, it was a good swap. If he can't hold the edge, without Cushing...and what ever plan Kubes has that doesn't include Adibi at the will and Dyles at the SAM, we'll start out as we always do behind the eight ball and scrambling to look respectable.

b0ng
05-28-2010, 11:22 AM
DR could play the run and cover in 2007. Unfortunately we were treated to a guy who was tenative in the run, couldn't cover unless there was a no-call on a DPI, and made a spectacle of his contract dispute in 2009. Even covering the supposed best WR on each team we faced, he was not even adequate. The fact that ATL paid him that much showed how desperate they were to add anything to their secondary (btw I dare you to name players in their secondary without google in 2009).

Maybe I'm not being fair because he had a horrific injury which takes time to recover. Fine. But him not being humble about his recovery and acting as though he should be one of the most well paid CB's in the game doesn't bode well with me either. Mix in the complete abuse he took from almost everybody he lined up against in 2009 and you can see the reasoning behind his departure.

He better work his tail off in ATL if he wants to be worth the money he is getting paid because his previous 3 seasons do not reflect his pay grade.

BigBull17
05-28-2010, 12:05 PM
DR could play the run and cover in 2007. Unfortunately we were treated to a guy who was tenative in the run, couldn't cover unless there was a no-call on a DPI, and made a spectacle of his contract dispute in 2009. Even covering the supposed best WR on each team we faced, he was not even adequate. The fact that ATL paid him that much showed how desperate they were to add anything to their secondary (btw I dare you to name players in their secondary without google in 2009).

Maybe I'm not being fair because he had a horrific injury which takes time to recover. Fine. But him not being humble about his recovery and acting as though he should be one of the most well paid CB's in the game doesn't bode well with me either. Mix in the complete abuse he took from almost everybody he lined up against in 2009 and you can see the reasoning behind his departure.

He better work his tail off in ATL if he wants to be worth the money he is getting paid because his previous 3 seasons do not reflect his pay grade.

This. He wasn't good at all last year. He was a step behind it seemed. Just a vastly over-rated player. He was neither a play maker or shut down corner. He was just a guy. You don't pay "just a guy" the money he got. Reeves was at the very least as good as Dunta was. I don't think we got worse at the position.

dalemurphy
06-04-2010, 11:05 AM
Dunta was our #1 corner...how could our secondary get better?

I just feel people hate on Dunta and act like he sucked. He was our best corner since we let go of Aaron Glenn for financial reasons (being cheap).

I don't see how taking him away makes us better. Just sayin.

as for a wager, I am not going to bet that my team or part of my team is going to suck. I want them to be good so wagering that they will be bad would just be being a bad fan.

as for being a broken record, b0ng, if being honest makes me a broken record, so be it. give me something to be positive about and i have no problem being positive....9-7 aint enough.

I would argue that Kareem Jackson, McManis, Molden, Reeves, Quin's second season, McCain's second season is likely going to be a better group than:

Dunta in '09, Bennett, Reeves, Quin as a rookie, McCain as a rookie, Molden on IR.

Dunta, at points in his career, was a good CB. However, he was not good in '09. Tell me what game tape to watch or give me some statistics to look at in order to show me otherwise. Every statistcal analysis I've looked at, in addition to watching all 16 games at least twice, tell me that Dunta was no better than our 3rd best CB last season.

Regarding the bet... it's a gentlemen's bet. No money. Simply put, the loser just agrees each week to come on the message board and admit he was wrong (based strictly on the criteria that you set up)... something you should be thrilled to do if your a Texan fan.