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View Full Version : Does Andre Johnson Deserve a New Contract?


GuerillaBlack
05-18-2010, 08:18 AM
Does the man deserve a new deal, after playing just three years through his eight year deal because he is the best WR in football? Or does him being the best WR in football not even matter, since he agreed to his new contract and won't honor it less than halfway through.

BIG TORO
05-18-2010, 08:21 AM
He is the best in the league but, I say take us to the playoffs, and then talk more money!

HoustonFrog
05-18-2010, 08:23 AM
He deserves money like one of the best, if not the best, WR in the league. But he is still only a little ways into his last contract. Give him more money a year from now after you see how the season goes.

Texan_Bill
05-18-2010, 08:27 AM
Meh, he's the third highest paid WR in the league behind Brandon Marshall and Larry Fitsgerald. It's not like he's making peanuts. OTOH, make the man happy. I want him to retire a Texan.

Runner
05-18-2010, 08:34 AM
He is the best in the league but, I say take us to the playoffs, and then talk more money!

I find "take us to the play-offs and then get paid" a spurious tenet. There is only so much one player can do, and by becoming the best receiver in the league Dre has done his part.

The opposite viewpoint may be that he's tired of endless losing and mediocrity. He's excelled, the past two years especially, but the other players and certainly the coaching staff haven't played up to his level. I don't think the front office is the best in the league either. Dre isn't the one keeping this team out of the play-offs.

Anyway, if the principle is "take us to the play-offs and then get paid", does that mean they will be re-doing 54 contracts when the make the post-season?

HJam72
05-18-2010, 08:43 AM
If they're going to take care of anyone, it should be this man. If a player like Andre Johnson even thinks you're cheap (let alone says it), every player in the league will for a long time.

TimeKiller
05-18-2010, 08:45 AM
he's got what, 3 mil left per year? averaged out anyway....make him a few more garaunteed bones to keep him happy but c'mon Dre, you can't be THAT unhappy.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-18-2010, 08:55 AM
Players are unhappy when they are franchised because while they are paid among the best at their position, they don't have a long-term contract. It seems like when players get their long-term contracts, somewhere along the line (3 years in with 5 years left) they realize they are not at fair market value when new contracts come into fold. You can't have it both ways bro.

That being said, he probably does deserve a little more guaranteed but he should have NOT signed an 8 year deal. I just don't like hearing about it not even half way through his deal. This is a part of the game that I would prefer not to hear about.

IDEXAN
05-18-2010, 08:59 AM
Johnson has all the leverage in this situaiton, it's a win-win for him because especially in this uncapped year somebody is going to pay him. If not the Texans there's gonna be another team that would ? For example, even with this spectacular failure in decision-making by Reskins owner Snyder which is costing him tens of millions with little return on his investment from Fat Albert, do you think he'd stop from making a deal to put Johnson on the receiving end of McNabbs passes if given the opportunity, especially with young OC Shanny raving about the talented Johnson after coaching him in Houston ? That's just one scenario, I can see many others.
Johnsons uncle is making the right move at the right time, will the Texans also make the right move which might be trading Johnson now when it's the right time ffor them to leverage his value with the uncapped year ?

Texan_Bill
05-18-2010, 09:03 AM
Johnson has all the leverage in this situaiton, it's a win-win for him because especially in this uncapped year somebody is going to pay him. If not the Texans there's gonna be another team that would ? For example, even with this spectacular failure in decision-making by Reskins owner Snyder which is costing him tens of millions with little return on his investment from Fat Albert, do you think he'd stop from making a deal to put Johnson on the receiving end of McNabbs passes if given the opportunity, especially with young OC Shanny raving about the talented Johnson after coaching him in Houston ? That's just one scenario, I can see many others.
Johnsons uncle is making the right move at the right time, will the Texans also make the right move which might be trading Johnson now when it's the right time ffor them to leverage his value with the uncapped year ?

Actually AJ has very little leverage. He's under contract for the next 5 years, period.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-18-2010, 09:03 AM
Johnson has all the leverage in this situaiton, it's a win-win for him because especially in this uncapped year somebody is going to pay him. If not the Texans there's gonna be another team that would ? For example, even with this spectacular failure in decision-making by Reskins owner Snyder which is costing him tens of millions with little return on his investment from Fat Albert, do you think he'd stop from making a deal to put Johnson on the receiving end of McNabbs passes if given the opportunity, especially with young OC Shanny raving about the talented Johnson after coaching him in Houston ? That's just one scenario, I can see many others.
Johnsons uncle is making the right move at the right time, will the Texans also make the right move which might be trading Johnson now when it's the right time ffor them to leverage his value with the uncapped year ?

No, the only card Johnson has is to hold out. He is under contract for 5 more years. What's he going to do, sit out for those 5 years?

BigTimeTexanFan
05-18-2010, 09:03 AM
Texan Bill beat me to it.

dc_txtech
05-18-2010, 09:06 AM
No, the only card Johnson has is to hold out. He is under contract for 5 more years. What's he going to do, sit out for those 5 years?

Exactly, he is locked up until he's 34 years old. What incentive would the Texans have to give him a new deal? AJ has 0 leverage.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-18-2010, 09:14 AM
Exactly, he is locked up until he's 34 years old. What incentive would the Texans have to give him a new deal? AJ has 0 leverage.


The only incentive they would have is to keep their best player happy. It's the game you play, but what happens in two years when his contract is out of whack again? Players want the long term contracts for insurance, but they also want to keep pace with an ever-evolving league, and that just isn't possible.

gtexan02
05-18-2010, 09:16 AM
Aj signed an 8 year deal when he was 26. 26 + 8 is 34. If he wanted multiple contracts, he should hav egone with a shorter length.

Id be willing to renogiate with him... but only after we see what OD is capable of and get him signed long term.

I think giving in to AJ right now sets a bad precedent for our team

BIG TORO
05-18-2010, 09:26 AM
I find "take us to the play-offs and then get paid" a spurious tenet. There is only so much one player can do, and by becoming the best receiver in the league Dre has done his part.

The opposite viewpoint may be that he's tired of endless losing and mediocrity. He's excelled, the past two years especially, but the other players and certainly the coaching staff haven't played up to his level. I don't think the front office is the best in the league either. Dre isn't the one keeping this team out of the play-offs.

Anyway, if the principle is "take us to the play-offs and then get paid", does that mean they will be re-doing 54 contracts when the make the post-season?

Well we can't get to the playoffs with out him, So I say help us get there and then talk more money.

Tailgate
05-18-2010, 09:27 AM
Pay him, but dont put a fricking gun to mgmnts head to get it done. Why thi even went public I dont know.

WWJD
05-18-2010, 09:31 AM
Doesn't matter what AJ thinks or really even wants. He is under contract.

What does Mr. McNair think?

Mailman
05-18-2010, 09:36 AM
Doesn't matter what AJ thinks or really even wants. He is under contract.

What does Mr. McNair think?

Of course it matters what he thinks and wants! His state of mind is very important to the team's success. An unhappy, underpaid AJ presents an important dilemma for the front office.

Pay the man, but go about it carefully. If anyone deserves to be the highest paid at his position, it's the incomparable Andre Johnson.

Mailman
05-18-2010, 09:39 AM
Pay him, but dont put a fricking gun to mgmnts head to get it done. Why thi even went public I dont know.

Agreed. I knew the day he signed his contract that the 8yrs would present a problem down the line, but I thought it would be another year (and an AFC South division title) before he'd start to make noise about wanting a new deal and the Texans would quietly go about the business of giving it to him.

Runner
05-18-2010, 09:42 AM
Pay him, but dont put a fricking gun to mgmnts head to get it done. Why thi even went public I dont know.

I think it went public because reporters saw Andre wasn't there. Rick Smith gave an honest answer to why.

I'm guessing he didn't buy a little time with a misleading reason because he doesn't think a little time is all that's needed to reach resolution. Again, just guessing on that part.

HOU-TEX
05-18-2010, 09:44 AM
I don't think they'll give him a new deal, but they might adjust the existing contract to move more money up front.

GuerillaBlack
05-18-2010, 09:58 AM
AJ should have did this the right way and showed up to OTAs, if we wanted a new deal. Instead of not going to OTAs because you want a new deal. It's different if he was not going to OTAs, but instead was working out at the U or something. I wouldn't really mind that. But what's going on now? No sir.

GP
05-18-2010, 09:59 AM
I don't think they'll give him a new deal, but they might adjust the existing contract to move more money up front.

Well, that would be the logical move.

Let's see whether this happens or if there will be "We're smarter than you" shenanigans by the front office/ownership.

I have my doubts that they will bend. Rick Smith said he would listen to him, but that does not indicate action in AJ's favor. Smith is playing a nice game of semantics with his reaction statements on this issue.

Color me skeptical that AJ gets anything different THIS season.

HOU-TEX
05-18-2010, 10:13 AM
Well, that would be the logical move.

Let's see whether this happens or if there will be "We're smarter than you" shenanigans by the front office/ownership.

I have my doubts that they will bend. Rick Smith said he would listen to him, but that does not indicate action in AJ's favor. Smith is playing a nice game of semantics with his reaction statements on this issue.

Color me skeptical that AJ gets anything different THIS season.

I kinda agree. After having a sit down with AJ, I'd let this season play out and address his deal next off season. Hopefully with a new CBA in place.

Texan_Bill
05-18-2010, 10:21 AM
*sigh*
I dreamed of the day when the Texans would be relevant beyond the city of Houston. However, steroids and the beast reciever in football holding out of OTA's is not what I had envisioned as being relevant! :cool:

2slik4u
05-18-2010, 10:22 AM
Heres the deal; as with everyone else on this board, AJ is by far and away one of the top three Texans in Texans history. His class, play, work ethic, and leadership go unrivaled.

This is where it gets tricky. With him holding all of the intagibles listed above AND being arguably the best WR in the league....why shouldnt he want more?

I voted dont pay him (yet). We did what we should have done and gave him a very nice extension back in 2007. If AJ wasnt happy with it, why did he sign it? Just because other players are getting paid more than him NOW doesnt justify us paying more.

WHAT GOOD IS A CONTRACT IF YOU ARE GOING TO NOT HOLD UP TO YOUR END WITH FIVE YEARS LEFT!!??!!??

Im all about taking care of our players, but on the other hand, they need to take care of us as well (and by us I mean the Houston Texans as a whole, the fans, the FO, the team, etc, etc).

He needs to put up about three more years into this extension and then if he still feels he deserves more then we should talk. This is absolute bulls#$%.

Last time I checked, a contract is binding on both ends that signed it. Its not just good for one side, then when you dont like it anymore say "I dont think I like this deal anymore, give me more money or I wont hold up my end of the bargain."

As classy as AJ is, this is crap. I hope something gets worked out soon for this so we dont have another distraction.

Im with everyone else, I want AJ to retire a Texan, but we have to draw a line somewhere......

Runner
05-18-2010, 10:38 AM
Last time I checked, a contract is binding on both ends that signed it. Its not just good for one side, then when you dont like it anymore say "I dont think I like this deal anymore, give me more money or I wont hold up my end of the bargain."


You do understand that NFL contracts aren't binding on both sides, right? Teams unilaterally end them very frequently. I don't see the fans get in a "contracts are binding" uproar every time a marginal player, who received very little as a signing bonus, gets cut with years left on his contract.

The teams take advantage of this on players who really can't afford it; sometimes players on the other end of the spectrum can force a renegotiation. If the first is fair, so is the other. If the second is unfair, so is the first.

Emotional responses aside, that is how the NFL works.

Runner
05-18-2010, 10:39 AM
*sigh*
I dreamed of the day when the Texans would be relevant beyond the city of Houston. However, steroids and the beast reciever in football holding out of OTA's is not what I had envisioned as being relevant! :cool:

This falls under the general heading, "Be Careful What You Wish For".

Texan_Bill
05-18-2010, 10:41 AM
This falls under the general heading, "Be Careful What You Wish For".

Right! I should've known better. :gun:

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 10:45 AM
This is a very simple especially now in this uncapped year.

Give AJ equal or more guaranteed money to that of Fitzgerald by adding bonuses each year of the remaining 5 years. AJ got 15 million guaranteed already and Fitzgerald got like 30+ million so make the deal where AJ gets an extra 3.5 million over the next 5 years, making it 17.5 million on top of the 15 already gotten. Gives AJ 32.5 million total in guaranteed money at the end of this contract.

It's no secret the Texans got over on the guaranteed money when they renewed the contract 3 years ago, now the Texans can make it right and make everyone happy by this simple gesture. Question is, will they?

Don't need a totally new contract, just restructure it to where he is paid like THE elite WR in the league....:doot:

gtexan02
05-18-2010, 10:46 AM
You do understand that NFL contracts aren't binding on both sides, right? Teams unilaterally end them very frequently. I don't see the fans get in a "contracts are binding" uproar every time a marginal player, who received very little as a signing bonus, gets cut with years left on his contract.

The teams take advantage of this on players who really can't afford it; sometimes players on the other end of the spectrum can force a renegotiation. If the first is fair, so is the other. If the second is unfair, so is the first.

Emotional responses aside, that is how the NFL works.

To be fair, players get large signing bonuses and owners get long contracts.

Its not fair to get a huge signing bonus AND terminate the contract.

Thorn
05-18-2010, 10:51 AM
I voted NO.

Rich folk crying about needing more money will never get any sympathy from me.

Ole Miss Texan
05-18-2010, 10:53 AM
Rick Smith has more urgent matters to attend to than renegotiating a contract that has 5 years remaining. Even if it is Andre Johnson, the best player in Texans history. He's not going anywhere, he'll join the team once it's mandatory... and Smith HAS to be signing these rookies, attending to OD's deal once fully healthy, looking at adding free agents and those soon to be available guys from other teams. There's no way Smith can put all that on hold to focus on Andre.

Does Andre "deserve" it? Yes. But now's not the time to do anything about it.

TheRealJoker
05-18-2010, 10:54 AM
Every decent team has at least one player you can't play hardball with...

Pats have Brady, Colts have Peyton, Cards have Fitz, Raiders have Nnamdi, and the Texans have AJ.

Give your best player whatever the hell he wants.

JB
05-18-2010, 10:54 AM
There are big difference in between

A. Does he deserve a new contract
B. Should he get a new contract
&
C. Will he get a new or revised contract.

Runner
05-18-2010, 10:56 AM
To be fair, players get large signing bonuses and owners get long contracts.

Its not fair to get a huge signing bonus AND terminate the contract.

Then it isn't fair for a team to give small guaranteed money AND cut the player before his contract is up. That happens very, very frequently and is the only combination that directly hurts an individual. Neither the corporation nor the highly compensated athlete are affected as much.

Where is the moral outrage then?

2slik4u
05-18-2010, 11:24 AM
This is a very simple especially now in this uncapped year.

Give AJ equal or more guaranteed money to that of Fitzgerald by adding bonuses each year of the remaining 5 years. AJ got 15 million guaranteed already and Fitzgerald got like 30+ million so make the deal where AJ gets an extra 3.5 million over the next 5 years, making it 17.5 million on top of the 15 already gotten. Gives AJ 32.5 million total in guaranteed money at the end of this contract.

It's no secret the Texans got over on the guaranteed money when they renewed the contract 3 years ago, now the Texans can make it right and make everyone happy by this simple gesture. Question is, will they?

Don't need a totally new contract, just restructure it to where he is paid like THE elite WR in the league....:doot:

Im ok with this.

Dutchrudder
05-18-2010, 11:38 AM
AJ did a favor for management when he restructured his contract to help them get some more cap space, now they owe him a favor back. I seriously doubt he will hold out on the team through mandatory training camp, so I see this as a way for the team to give him a big bonus in an un-capped year, and increase his guaranteed money over the next 4 years. He should get a bonus of 6-10 million this year, and up his guaranteed money over the next 4 so that he makes at least 5 million a year base salary. Put in incentives in for Pro-bowl and All-pro honors and you should have him locked up through 2015 at cheaper rate. The Texans took advantage of the uncapped year to pay Demeco Ryans a buttload of money, and it will help the team a lot in the future if the salary cap comes back into play.

gtexan02
05-18-2010, 11:41 AM
Then it isn't fair for a team to give small guaranteed money AND cut the player before his contract is up. That happens very, very frequently and is the only combination that directly hurts an individual. Neither the corporation nor the highly compensated athlete are affected as much.

Where is the moral outrage then?

AJ has the right to an agent.
AJ has the right to become a free agent.

Quit making this sound like the Texans are screwing AJ at every possible turn.

He chose to negotiate an 8 year deal with 15 million guaranteed.
He chose to sign that deal.

Its a 2 way street. They both agreed on that deal.

Signing bonuses are the way the NFL offsets teams cutting players before their contracts are up.

If AJ wanted a larger signing bonus, he should have negotiated a better one or waited until he was a free agent and signed elsewhere. Its not like he has no options.



The system is set up so that both sides take a risk. The player takes a risk he will get cut before his contract is finished. The owner takes a risk that he is giving someone 15 million up front and has no idea if he will get a career ending injury the next morning.

This is AJs deal. He negotiated for it himself and he signed it himself.

BigBull17
05-18-2010, 11:44 AM
Heres the deal; as with everyone else on this board, AJ is by far and away one of the top three Texans in Texans history. His class, play, work ethic, and leadership go unrivaled.

This is where it gets tricky. With him holding all of the intagibles listed above AND being arguably the best WR in the league....why shouldnt he want more?

I voted dont pay him (yet). We did what we should have done and gave him a very nice extension back in 2007. If AJ wasnt happy with it, why did he sign it? Just because other players are getting paid more than him NOW doesnt justify us paying more.

WHAT GOOD IS A CONTRACT IF YOU ARE GOING TO NOT HOLD UP TO YOUR END WITH FIVE YEARS LEFT!!??!!??

Im all about taking care of our players, but on the other hand, they need to take care of us as well (and by us I mean the Houston Texans as a whole, the fans, the FO, the team, etc, etc).

He needs to put up about three more years into this extension and then if he still feels he deserves more then we should talk. This is absolute bulls#$%.

Last time I checked, a contract is binding on both ends that signed it. Its not just good for one side, then when you dont like it anymore say "I dont think I like this deal anymore, give me more money or I wont hold up my end of the bargain."

As classy as AJ is, this is crap. I hope something gets worked out soon for this so we dont have another distraction.

Im with everyone else, I want AJ to retire a Texan, but we have to draw a line somewhere......

Would the other two be fragments of his personality? He is the best Texan ever. By far. It really isn't close.

Blake
05-18-2010, 11:47 AM
Just guarantee all 60 million and be done with it. Estimate of 34.2 million left on his current 8 year deal. Just guarantee that last 34 mil and lets move on. He is worth it.

Blake
05-18-2010, 11:49 AM
Would the other two be fragments of his personality? He is the best Texan ever. By far. It really isn't close.

+1. This guy is the cream of the crop. I dont know if there is a better NFL player at their position. Name 1 player you would trade him straight up for?

Runner
05-18-2010, 11:50 AM
Quit making this sound like the Texans are screwing AJ at every possible turn.



Quit making up things I didn't say to argue against. I've never said the Texans are screwing Andre Johnson.

I'm pointing out that the team plays fast and loose with contracts, as do the players who demand renegotiation.

The teams play the system, the players play the system. I don't see how that makes the teams beyond reproach and the players at fault at every turn. It's how the NFL works.

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 11:58 AM
+1. This guy is the cream of the crop. I dont know if there is a better NFL player at their position. Name 1 player you would trade him straight up for?

Jabar Gaffney, no doubt...

Ole Miss Texan
05-18-2010, 12:05 PM
AJ did a favor for management when he restructured his contract to help them get some more cap space, now they owe him a favor back.
If I'm not mistaken, AJ didn't take a paycut to help the Texans. When teams restructure player contracts, its primarily for cap purposes and how they account for the dollars. I.e. base salary, signing bonus, other bonus, etc. These have different effects on the team's cap. Very rarely, I would imagine, does the restructure negatively effect the player.

If the AJ flat out said, the team needs more cap space? Just take off $6MM from what is due to me and that will help. That's not the case - more like I'll take less $ as a "signing bonus" and more $ as a "roster bonus", for example.

BIG TORO
05-18-2010, 12:07 PM
Jabar Gaffney, no doubt...

No Way!

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 12:22 PM
No Way!

WHAT! Jabar Gaffney would be just as if not better than Andre Johnson had he been given the chance, man. Didn't you see what he did with Tom "BABY DADDY" Brady throwing to him....

How is this even a question?

pbat488
05-18-2010, 01:16 PM
This is a sticky situation because on the one hand, he's the best reciever in the league, and paid like a top 10 instead of the best. On the other hand, he's only a couple years into an 8 year contract and demanding a new one when the old one he signed is half way through, which has the possiblity of setting a dangerous new precedent if he gets what he wants. Either way, I hope we get this settled somehow beneficially to both AJ and the Texans, as I don't want another Dunta situation.

I still voted Pay him just because I don't want to lose him when we're close to breaking through to the promised land.

sakebomb
05-18-2010, 01:33 PM
Pay him but he must fire his uncle first.

Shaft75
05-18-2010, 01:46 PM
Pay dyat myan his myoney.

Ole Miss Texan
05-18-2010, 01:48 PM
To put it in perspective, when Andre Johnson and the Texans agreed to the 8 year $60MM deal in 2007, the franchise tag figure for WR's was $7.6MM and his average annual pay was $7.5MM.

However, in reality he had 2 years left on his current contract at that time earning $5.25MM and $7.75MM for 07 and 08, respectively. Basically what they did was restructure those 2 years and add on a 6 year extension. So that's basically 6 additional years with $47MM in additional income. The "new" portion of his contract averaged $7.8MM a year. However by restructuring/extending Andre actually received almost $19MM during 07 and 08, combined.

Please note, this could be construed as 'fuzzy math'.

Mr teX
05-18-2010, 01:48 PM
On the one hand, i think he should be paid as the top guy in the league, He's always been a great player for us causing no problems whatsoever.

On the other it's like come on dude, you signed the extension & locked yourself in for another 5. If you had any reservations about it whatsoever, you shouldn't have signed it.

gtexan02
05-18-2010, 01:55 PM
So whenever we sign a player who outperforms their contract, we just pad it up and give them extra.

Whenever we sign a guy who underperforms their contract, we're just screwed and out the signing bonus/cap hit.

That doesn't seem fair.

Blake
05-18-2010, 02:01 PM
So whenever we sign a player who outperforms their contract, we just pad it up and give them extra.

Whenever we sign a guy who underperforms their contract, we're just screwed and out the signing bonus/cap hit.

That doesn't seem fair.

Who said anything about fair?

Its almost exactly like supply and demand.

gtexan02
05-18-2010, 02:04 PM
Who said anything about fair?

Its almost exactly like supply and demand.

Except AJ is not going to sit out for 5 years to make his point.

He can demand more money and he deserves it based on his play, but fact is we've got him on paper for 5 years and unless he plays, he doesn't get the checks

b0ng
05-18-2010, 02:06 PM
A team can terminate a contract at any time for any reason and only be on the hook for what's guaranteed and the signing bonus. They don't have to honor the entire contract. But the player, oh the player. He better not ask for a pay raise because "he signed a contract dadgumnit".

Mr teX
05-18-2010, 02:10 PM
So whenever we sign a player who outperforms their contract, we just pad it up and give them extra.

Whenever we sign a guy who underperforms their contract, we're just screwed and out the signing bonus/cap hit.

That doesn't seem fair.

It's fair b/c the organization has all the real power & the players know it. If there was a lock out, the players suffer most not the owners b/c for 1 the owners are already billionaires & will be whether they come back or not. 2, the players only have that small window during their playing days to get what they can & truthfully can't afford to sit out even half a year.


But getting back to your main point,The organization doesn't have to pay anything up...They can just say "shut up, sit down & honor your contract %^&*" ; pretty much how The cards did Boldin & how we did Dunta. If they still want to act stupid..they can be cut at any time as only a small amount (relatively speaking) is guaranteed.

The problem comes when you've got players like AJ who haven't been a problem & who actually have a case.

Texecutioner
05-18-2010, 02:15 PM
He is the best in the league but, I say take us to the playoffs, and then talk more money!

He's gone way beyond doing everything he can to make that happen. It's not his fault that the rest of the team hasn't done their part all of these years.

gtexan02
05-18-2010, 02:15 PM
A team can terminate a contract at any time for any reason and only be on the hook for what's guaranteed and the signing bonus. They don't have to honor the entire contract. But the player, oh the player. He better not ask for a pay raise because "he signed a contract dadgumnit".

This is such a double standard, and its so frustrating that people don't realize that there are two sides.

The NFLPA agreed to the contract situation in the CBA. They agreed because they wanted guaranteed money.

The NFL is unique in that contracts can be terminated by the employer, but its also unique in that players are given millions and millions of dollars up front. The signing bonus offsets the contract termination.

If owner A signs player 1 to a 5 year 50 million deal with 10 up front, he owes A $10 million no matter what.

If A performs to the level of the deal, the contract is fair for both sides
If A outperforms the deal, the owner is getting a good value
If A underperforms the deal, the owner can cut him but is still on the hook for the salary + 10 million up front

Lets say DeMeco falls down the stairs and can never play football again.

McNair already gave him a guaranteed $22 million.

So even though DeMeco never played a down on that new contract, he still gets the 22 million.


In a sport where career ending injuries and bust potential is sky high, the NFLPA thought it best to agree to a system that places a premium on getting money up front. In order to get that, the owners had to get somethign to. They got the ability to terminate contracts early (at the expense of both the salary cap AND the guaranteed money and bonuses).

People act like the players have it so rough because the owners can terminate a contract and the players can't. But you're ignoring that both the owners and players take a risk with every deal. Its not a 1 way street.


Andre Johnson is my favorite player, bar none. I have 2 of his jerseys. He is 100% my favorite. That said, I do not respect him for trying to get a new deal 2.5 years into his extension. It was his choice to sign that deal, and he HAD to know that at 26, an 8 year deal would make him signed until he was 34. I would want the Texans to do anything to keep him. Even give him his new deal (and yes, he has outperformed his old deal). But that said, I think its ridiculous that people fault the system and the owners for having all the leverage. They don't. Think Al Davis had all the power when Russel walked away with tens of millions for doing nothing?

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 02:30 PM
Pay dyat myan his myoney.

Just the worst Russian accent ever...

eriadoc
05-18-2010, 02:37 PM
To quote Clint Eastwood in "Unforgiven", deserve's got nothin' to do with it.

It's business. He negotiated a contract that was front loaded. Now that he's gotten the biggest chunk of money out of the deal, he wants to rip up the contract and negotiate a new one. From a business standpoint (employer), you'd have to be stupid to do that.

Think of it this way - if AJ had signed a contract to play for the Texans for 8 years and it was $100M and somehow got all $100M of it in the first year ..... do you think he should play out the remaining 7 years? Evidently AJ doesn't, because that's pretty close to what we're talking about here.

Shaft75
05-18-2010, 02:50 PM
Contract-shmontract...

He is the best receiver in the league and has tons of leverage. Pay the man. Tell the other players if they were a beast they can make the same demands!

GuerillaBlack
05-18-2010, 02:52 PM
Contract-shmontract...

He is the best receiver in the league and has tons of leverage. Pay the man. Tell the other players if they were a beast they can make the same demands!

Actually, he really doesn't have much leverage. He's under contract for five more years. I doubt he sits for five years. He'll play.

BIG TORO
05-18-2010, 02:55 PM
They are going to pay the man, and are season tickets are going up for five consecutive years!

Shaft75
05-18-2010, 03:07 PM
Actually, he really doesn't have much leverage. He's under contract for five more years. I doubt he sits for five years. He'll play.

You can't really mean that. Look at what happened when he was injured. Our team took a HUGE step backwards. Figure out a way to make it work before he and the organization are villified during training camp.

GuerillaBlack
05-18-2010, 03:08 PM
You can't really mean that. Look at what happened when he was injured. Our team took a HUGE step backwards. Figure out a way to make it work before he and the organization are villified during training camp.

So, you honestly think Andre is going to sit out for five years? Be real here. He has almost no leverage in this situation. He'll be missing out on game checks, also.

Blake
05-18-2010, 03:17 PM
So, you honestly think Andre is going to sit out for five years? Be real here. He has almost no leverage in this situation. He'll be missing out on game checks, also.

Same thing can be said for the Texans org. You gonna let your best player ever, sit in the stands cause you wanna play hardball?

Runner
05-18-2010, 03:18 PM
So, you honestly think Andre is going to sit out for five years? Be real here. He has almost no leverage in this situation. He'll be missing out on game checks, also.

I think he means the team wouldn't see it as good thing to sit him for five years either. Some fans might though.

Shaft75
05-18-2010, 03:19 PM
So, you honestly think Andre is going to sit out for five years? Be real here. He has almost no leverage in this situation. He'll be missing out on game checks, also.

Literally, no. Figuratively, yes.

It should scare the organization as much as it would the fan to see Dre not in the lineup. Seriously the guy has pretty good reason to ask for some more compensation.

beerlover
05-18-2010, 03:21 PM
with uncapped year the Texans could kill two birds with one stone & both could come out winners :specnatz:

Ole Miss Texan
05-18-2010, 03:23 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=nfl&id=1575
3/3/2007: Signed an eight-year, $60 million contract. The deal includes $15 million guaranteed. 2010: $5.8 million, 2011: $6.8 million, 2012: $7.3 million, 2013: $7 million, 2014: $7.3 million, 2015: Free Agent

So if I'm reading this correctly, years '10-'14 he will earn an aggregate $34.2 Million. That's 5 seasons remaining at an avg. annual salary of $6.83 Million. That also means that years '07-'09 he earned $25.8 Million. That's 3 seasons at an avg. annual salary of $8.6 Million.

So he's completed the years where he earned the most of his contract and wants to restructure the remaining years so he can earn more. Now that's smart business.

Let's look at history and how he ranked in the league:
2003: 16 games, 66 rec for 976 yds (16th), 5 TDs (37th)
2004: 16 games, 79 rec for 1,142 yds (17th), 2 TDs (31st)
2005: 13 games, 63 rec for 688 yds (48th), 6 TDs (89th)
2006: 16 games, 103 rec for 1,147 yds (11th), 4 TDs (36th)
*3/3/07: Restructures remaining 2 years and signs a new 8 year contract paying him an average of $7.5MM per year. 2007 Franchise Tag Figure for WRs is $7.6MM.

b0ng
05-18-2010, 03:45 PM
With the staff being on as thin of ice as it is (Come on, how many people were pissed off that Kubiak, et al was retained?) you would think that the lynchpin of the Texans identity (big passing game) would have some leverage. Especially if this season is a disaster and all of the staff run the risk of getting fired.

I don't think AJ would sit the season even if he didn't get his new deal or a re-structured deal this season. But if he did, the effect could be that all of the people who negotiate with him would change. Also, the people upset about the timing aren't really grasping the entire big picture here. If there wasn't the looming situation that there might not be football in 2011 I'm willing to bet AJ wouldn't be taking actions to let his feelings be known.

It's funny people want to compare themselves to athletes of AJ's and other NFL players caliber and then complain that they don't make a gazillion dollars a year to edit a database or sit in a cubicle. You are not based in reality and your earning power has zero relevance to high money contract negotiations in professional sports. If you feel upset that somebody else wants more money fine but you just sound like a jealous ex-girlfriend when you bring that up as some sort of reason that a player shouldn't get paid.

Ole Miss Texan
05-18-2010, 04:01 PM
b0ng - In my case, I understand where AJ is coming from and would probably be in the same frame of mind if I were him. He has every reason to want to restructure his deal. But from Rick Smith's perspective, he has a player locked up for the next 5 years, there are concerns over the 2011 season and what effects it may have on player expenses, he's busy negotiating rookie contracts and he's trying to find additional talent to add to this team. This is one of Smith's busiest times of the year, if not the busiest.

I think all this is, is Andre doing his thing right now. He's finishing up his college degree, he's working out and staying in shape, and he's worked hard enough and accomplished enough the last 7 seasons that's it's 'acceptable' for him to miss voluntary team activities. I think he's made it known to Rick Smith that he would like to restructure his contract but I in no way, shape or form believe he's threatening the organization. He's letting them know early enough of what he wants and I'm pretty sure he doesn't fully expect to have a new deal in place in the near future. Rick Smith has knowledge now that part of his moves have to be with the foresight that he's going to have to restructure AJ's deal in the next couple years and to be ready for it. I think this is going to be real similar to when Demeco wanted to restructure last year and Smith was busy dealing with Dunta... Demeco waited a year and got rewarded.

Double Barrel
05-18-2010, 04:05 PM
To quote Clint Eastwood in "Unforgiven", deserve's got nothin' to do with it.

You're right about that, and it goes both ways.

A team that has never been to the playoffs and has had one winning season in 8 years does not deserve a player of AJ's caliber.

But, deserve's got nothing to do with it. :howdy:

The players are on AJ's side. Always have been and always will be. Show this team that we take care of our sole superstar. Show them how important it is that we value him and compensate his performance, work ethic, and leadership.

Or, play your little front office games and confirm that it really is all about the money at the end of the day.

Superstars are treated differently. That's just the way it is. And deserve has everything to do with it.

JMO, of course. :cowboy1:

gtexan02
05-18-2010, 04:09 PM
You're right about that, and it goes both ways.

A team that has never been to the playoffs and has had one winning season in 8 years does not deserve a player of AJ's caliber.

But, deserve's got nothing to do with it. :howdy:

The players are on AJ's side. Always have been and always will be. Show this team that we take care of our sole superstar. Show them how important it is that we value him and compensate his performance, work ethic, and leadership.

Or, play your little front office games and confirm that it really is all about the money at the end of the day.

Superstars are treated differently. That's just the way it is. And deserve has everything to do with it.

JMO, of course. :cowboy1:

Do you really think the players want that though? They are smart enough to know that in a salary cap era NFL, its a zero sum game.

Theres $X to be had, and if AJ takes up more of it, it means theres less for guys like OD.

I dont think probowl but not superstar level players want to know that superstars are treated differently. I think they want to see everyone get what they are due.

Make the probowl, work your ass off, get an extension.

Owen Daniels is the one who deserves it the most

MannyFresh
05-18-2010, 04:15 PM
Its the greedy uncle's fault...who is that cat anyway?

b0ng
05-18-2010, 04:19 PM
Do you really think the players want that though? They are smart enough to know that in a salary cap era NFL, its a zero sum game.

Theres $X to be had, and if AJ takes up more of it, it means theres less for guys like OD.

I dont think probowl but not superstar level players want to know that superstars are treated differently. I think they want to see everyone get what they are due.

Make the probowl, work your ass off, get an extension.

Owen Daniels is the one who deserves it the most

You better believe that players are always rooting for guys on their team to get paid because that means that they in turn can also get paid. There's no way that AJ getting a huge deal this offseason would upset other players on the team because it's AJ. What player has given more to this particular team than Andre Johnson?

Rey
05-18-2010, 04:20 PM
with uncapped year the Texans could kill two birds with one stone & both could come out winners :specnatz:

This.

TexansBlood
05-18-2010, 05:02 PM
More and more drama with the Texans. How about we make the playoffs this yr AJ then talk about your contract early next season... Makes me sick!

infantrycak
05-18-2010, 05:11 PM
Do you really think the players want that though? They are smart enough to know that in a salary cap era NFL, its a zero sum game.

While your argument makes some logical sense N D Kalu says it is dead wrong. I think to highlight the problem you bring up to the players you would almost need a circumstance like Manning being signed with Freeney being released to make room for his contract. Until then they are just rooting for big contracts.

Shaft75
05-18-2010, 06:51 PM
While your argument makes some logical sense N D Kalu says it is dead wrong. I think to highlight the problem you bring up to the players you would almost need a circumstance like Manning being signed with Freeney being released to make room for his contract. Until then they are just rooting for big contracts.

We're dealing with football players here. Their football IQ is resounding, their regular IQ...:boogie: