PDA

View Full Version : Rookie RB Tate injured


ChrisG
05-17-2010, 09:42 PM
Per rotoworld Tate is out of OTA with an injury. Didnt see it posted else where

"Rookie Ben Tate is sitting out Texans OTAs with a hamstring injury.
It sounds like Tate is merely day to day, but Gary Kubiak indicated that he's no lock to rejoin workouts soon. "He's going to miss a little time," the head coach predicted. "He had a problem with his hamstring Friday back home. ... We'll evaluate him for a couple of days and go from there." Tate could be using this time to gain ground on Arian Foster and Steve Slaton."

Dutchrudder
05-17-2010, 09:44 PM
****!

ChrisG
05-17-2010, 09:45 PM
the quote "He's going to miss a little time" is making me nervous. Hopefully kubes only means OTAs not camp or pre/reg season

Esoom
05-17-2010, 09:46 PM
And the off-season continues to suck...

redwhiteANDblue
05-17-2010, 09:48 PM
:roast:

TheRealJoker
05-17-2010, 09:51 PM
:-(

m5kwatts
05-17-2010, 11:27 PM
I think hamstring injuries in May are of little concern. No use risking a tear.

b0ng
05-17-2010, 11:57 PM
I think hamstring injuries in May are of little concern. No use risking a tear.

My line of thinking on Tate as well. Apparently there's something in the water here that keeps our RB's injured. Hopefully he works through OTA's at some point, but TC is the big prize in the offseason and I'm sure he will be taking reps by then.

CloakNNNdagger
05-18-2010, 07:47 AM
As I posted in the OTA thread, this does not seem to be the first time he's had hamstring problems. I remembering him have a similar problem in college sometime in the last year or two.

Runner
05-18-2010, 07:53 AM
I'm not going to be concerned about this at this time. I'm content to see what develops.

BIG TORO
05-18-2010, 07:54 AM
What the hell is going on with our team? Its one thing after another!

BigTimeTexanFan
05-18-2010, 07:58 AM
Does our S&C program incorporate stretching into their routine? It seems like the Texans consistantly have hammy problems.

Blake
05-18-2010, 08:04 AM
Thats it... I am selling my Ben Tate jersey!

What? I though we were still going with the knee jerk threads this offseason?

GP
05-18-2010, 08:26 AM
I'm hoping this was due to being inactive for awhile, and it's just some rust.

I thought I had heard he was (maybe?) doing some workouts with MJD, though. He might have had some downtime after that, came to OTA, and tweaked it.

It could also be sore, and the staff doesn't want to risk making it worse. It's a long way to regular season kickoff.

GP
05-18-2010, 08:29 AM
Or...maybe we're getting an early start on regular season injury reports that are used to trick opponents:

Kubiak: "Will Tate play? He's day-to-day, so we'll see how he looks on game day."

LOL. You know how crafty Kubiak is. He's got all sorts of tricks up his sleeve when it comes to out-foxing his opponents. :sarcasm:

DerekLee1
05-18-2010, 08:32 AM
He tweaked it last week working out at home. Kubiak's just taking it slow so he doesn't risk further injury on the field. I imagine he'll be working out full-speed with the team by next week at the latest.

GuerillaBlack
05-18-2010, 09:05 AM
I watched the OTA Day 1 video, and Tate was out there on the field. Don't know if he just stood around and listened in and didn't participate in drills, though. He'll be fine. We're in the middle of May. He has a LONG time to heal a hamstring.

2slik4u
05-18-2010, 09:26 AM
Good Lord. Nothing like starting off your career with a season nagging injury. I hope Im wrong.

No More 8-8's
05-18-2010, 09:51 AM
And hits just keeeeeep on coming. What next, Bernard Pollard drunk driving arrest?

Texecutioner
05-18-2010, 12:15 PM
Keep him off the field and in the film room then. Hamstring injuries can end up being pretty bad if a player ends up coming back to early and not letting it heal completely. They can linger on for weeks.

IDEXAN
05-18-2010, 12:25 PM
Rookie running back Ben Tate, the second-round draft pick out of Auburn, was limited by a hamstring injury. It's uncertain when he'll be ready to go full-speed.

"He had a problem with his hamstring Friday back home," Kubiak said. "We're not comfortable with just turning him loose, so we'll evaluate him for a couple of days and go from there. He's going to miss a little time."
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6165
According to this, it happened before he even arrived in Houston.

TimeKiller
05-18-2010, 12:35 PM
There is no reason or purpose for having guys push through injuries right now. Let him rest it up. No biggie. Plenty of work to be done on the mental side of the game.

Brisco_County
05-18-2010, 03:46 PM
As I posted in the OTA thread, this does not seem to be the first time he's had hamstring problems. I remembering him have a similar problem in college sometime in the last year or two.

And how often did these occur?

This is the first I've heard of it.

TexansBlood
05-18-2010, 04:05 PM
Cushings, Aj and now this.. Unbelivable.

Norg
05-18-2010, 04:17 PM
It's prob just the heat weather and Houston weTher that got to him

Runner
05-18-2010, 04:21 PM
It's prob just the heat weather and Houston weTher that got to him

A capital letter following a missing "a" - this was posted from an iPhone!

Dutchrudder
05-18-2010, 04:30 PM
It's prob just the heat weather and Houston weTher that got to him

I don't think Alabama's weather is all that different from Houston's. Maybe a bit more humid here, but it's not like he's from Canada.

Pollardized
05-18-2010, 05:13 PM
And hits just keeeeeep on coming. What next, Bernard Pollard drunk driving arrest?

Here's what happened to the last COPPER who tried to arrest Pollard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhAh5RJ38Ew

barrett
05-18-2010, 06:21 PM
Thats it... I am selling my Ben Tate jersey!

What? I though we were still going with the knee jerk threads this offseason?

thank you so much for writing this. made my day!

arigold
05-20-2010, 03:14 PM
rest him. rb is the easiest posistion to transistion from college to the nfl

SheTexan
05-20-2010, 03:58 PM
It's prob just the heat weather and Houston weTher that got to him


Hummmm, maybe it's the Miami heat that got to him first. He's been working out with MJD and posting stuff on his facebook page. Maybe MJD knows something we don't, and got in a good lick or two for our division rivals! Who know's?!! Paranoia is rampid during the off season!:evil:

badboy
05-20-2010, 04:07 PM
Ok, since no one else has stepped up, I volunteer to keep an eye on the cheerleaders' legs this year to help warn of muscle pulls and hamstrings. Of course, I will not mention the word "ham" when talking with them. This will a terrible sacrifice on my part and hope all readers recognize my efforts as a true Texans fan. Amen.

CloakNNNdagger
05-20-2010, 07:10 PM
And how often did these occur?

This is the first I've heard of it.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66552&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB

Finally found it. [LINK] (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66552&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB)

otisbean
05-21-2010, 06:18 AM
The Texans have a couple of great Docs that specialize in ART and Graston, both help tremendously with recovering from muscle strains. I think Tate will be fine. If he had an old injury chances are that is what tweaked and they will get him straightened out.

TimeKiller
05-22-2010, 12:46 PM
derp

J_R
05-24-2010, 12:11 PM
NickScurfield (http://twitter.com/NickScurfield)

Rookie RB Ben Tate (hamstring) still not practicing in Texans OTAs. Gary Kubiak just told media he hopes Tate can practice next week

NickScurfield (http://twitter.com/NickScurfield)

Kubiak: "(Tate) is way behind everybody right now, but we've gotta be smart and get him well before he competes."

El Tejano
05-24-2010, 12:52 PM
Can we please get some OFF! for that injury bug?

CloakNNNdagger
05-25-2010, 06:23 AM
In a previous post, I stated that he had a nagging hamstring problem in college. Most were not aware of this history. But my concern was that the greatest predictor of nagging hamstring problems is a history of previous hamstring problems........especially if they are not given proper attention, including adequate rest. This type of injury is particularly one you don't want to see in an RB whose performance depends heavily on forceful push off for power running and speed. Aj Burge has a nice little review which echoes these concerns. LINK (http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m5d24-Kubiak-says-Ben-Tate-is-way-behind)

otisbean
05-25-2010, 06:48 AM
In a previous post, I stated that he had a nagging hamstring problem in college. Most were not aware of this history. But my concern was that the greatest predictor of nagging hamstring problems is a history of previous hamstring problems........especially if they are not given proper attention, including adequate rest. This type of injury is particularly one you don't want to see in an RB whose performance depends heavily on forceful push off for power running and speed. Aj Burge has a nice little review which echoes these concerns. LINK (http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m5d24-Kubiak-says-Ben-Tate-is-way-behind)

As I mentioned earlier the Texans have the guys on staff to get this taken care of properly. I wouldn't worry too much yet. The scar tissue that develops as a result of an injury is what causes future "nagging" injuries. Properly executed deep tissue massage to soften the adhesion and proper strength training including eccentrically focused RDLs can do a wonderful job addressing hamstring issues.

I don't know much about their strength coach, but hamstring issues can also be attributed to an anterior pelvic tilt and an over-recrutiment of the hamstrings - basically the hamstring are overworked to compensate for weak glutes, the overload causes strains. This can also be addressed through proper strength training, if this is indeed a contributing factor. LOTS of sprinters and similarly built athletes have an excessive anterior pelvic tilt.

CloakNNNdagger
05-25-2010, 08:53 AM
As I mentioned earlier the Texans have the guys on staff to get this taken care of properly. I wouldn't worry too much yet. The scar tissue that develops as a result of an injury is what causes future "nagging" injuries. Properly executed deep tissue massage to soften the adhesion and proper strength training including eccentrically focused RDLs can do a wonderful job addressing hamstring issues.

I don't know much about their strength coach, but hamstring issues can also be attributed to an anterior pelvic tilt and an over-recrutiment of the hamstrings - basically the hamstring are overworked to compensate for weak glutes, the overload causes strains. This can also be addressed through proper strength training, if this is indeed a contributing factor. LOTS of sprinters and similarly built athletes have an excessive anterior pelvic tilt.

As you astutely pointed out, postural problems have more recently come to light as a cause for hamstring problems. But despite all the “advances” in manipulation techniques, postural correction (esp., anterior pelvic tilt [“sway back” for those not familiar with the term]), strengthening exercises and other treatments, there is no disputing that there remains a problem with recurrence of hamstring injuries. The reason lies in the fact that scar tissue whether firm or softened with therapy is still scar tissue. It never heals to 100% preinjury strength. Microtears lead to small loss of strength with multiple occurrences of microtears leading to greater loss of strength. Once a major tear occurs, there are greater areas of scar substitution for the muscle tissues and the muscle endures significant permanent loss of strength.

More and more experts feel that a significant contribution to this injury is related to similar problems seen after a heart attack. The muscle is substituted with non-functioning scar tissue. But in addition, there is further weakening because electrical nerve impulses cannot pass through the scar tissue. Nerve stimulation is, of course, necessary for keeping the muscle healthy and strong......exercise relies on this nerve stimulation. Just as important, there can be problems with the muscle not being able to properly transmit nerve messages back to the brain. Once a hamstring injury occurs, especially in recurrent pattern, at very least, there is reason for tempered concern.

otisbean
05-25-2010, 01:37 PM
As you astutely pointed out, postural problems have more recently come to light as a cause for hamstring problems. But despite all the “advances” in manipulation techniques, postural correction (esp., anterior pelvic tilt [“sway back” for those not familiar with the term]), strengthening exercises and other treatments, there is no disputing that there remains a problem with recurrence of hamstring injuries. The reason lies in the fact that scar tissue whether firm or softened with therapy is still scar tissue. It never heals to 100% preinjury strength. Microtears lead to small loss of strength with multiple occurrences of microtears leading to greater loss of strength. Once a major tear occurs, there are greater areas of scar substitution for the muscle tissues and the muscle endures significant permanent loss of strength.

More and more experts feel that a significant contribution to this injury is related to similar problems seen after a heart attack. The muscle is substituted with non-functioning scar tissue. But in addition, there is further weakening because electrical nerve impulses cannot pass through the scar tissue. Nerve stimulation is, of course, necessary for keeping the muscle healthy and strong......exercise relies on this nerve stimulation. Just as important, there can be problems with the muscle not being able to properly transmit nerve messages back to the brain. Once a hamstring injury occurs, especially in recurrent pattern, at very least, there is reason for tempered concern.

The way the scar tissue issue was explained to me when I suffered a MAJOR hamstring injury (the muscle tore and partially pulled away from the bone) was that scar tissue is tougher, denser tissue than healthy muscle tissue. These scar tissue adhesions prevent the muscle from functioning properly in terms of the length tension relationship, ie the muscles shorten due to the in-elastic nature of scar tissue. If you can manually manipulate scar tissue and get it to grow back in parallel with the muscle tissue you can reduce if not prevent future injury. Eccentric contractions can also be used in conjunction with massage to encourage proper healing of the injured site. I have used this with 2 significant hamstring injuries, the one listed above to my rt leg and a left leg pull.

The rt leg pull was horrible and ruined my HS sports career. After my senior year I saw a chiro that did deep tissue cross friction massage 3 days week ( this was back when insurance actually paid for things). This was by far the most painful experience in my life. It took about 6-7 weeks of these sessions, I remember doing squats and I felt a tear in the injured area, but it felt good. I immediately gained ~ 20 deg of ROM on my hamstring stretch and have never had another problem with it. The initial injury occurred when I was 14 and the good tear that I described happened when I was 17, after 6-7 weeks of heavy massage. I have never had another problem with the leg since. I have played volleyball in college and have played at a very high level since. I am stronger now then I have ever been and I have remained hamstring injury free (knock on wood). The left leg injury occurred doing a head kick in a martial arts class. I used the same deep tissue massage combined with romanian deadlifts with slow eccentric contractions, and I have not had another problem with that side in the 18 years since I first injured it.

CloakNNNdagger
05-25-2010, 03:34 PM
The way the scar tissue issue was explained to me when I suffered a MAJOR hamstring injury (the muscle tore and partially pulled away from the bone) was that scar tissue is tougher, denser tissue than healthy muscle tissue. These scar tissue adhesions prevent the muscle from functioning properly in terms of the length tension relationship, ie the muscles shorten due to the in-elastic nature of scar tissue. If you can manually manipulate scar tissue and get it to grow back in parallel with the muscle tissue you can reduce if not prevent future injury. Eccentric contractions can also be used in conjunction with massage to encourage proper healing of the injured site. I have used this with 2 significant hamstring injuries, the one listed above to my rt leg and a left leg pull.

The rt leg pull was horrible and ruined my HS sports career. After my senior year I saw a chiro that did deep tissue cross friction massage 3 days week ( this was back when insurance actually paid for things). This was by far the most painful experience in my life. It took about 6-7 weeks of these sessions, I remember doing squats and I felt a tear in the injured area, but it felt good. I immediately gained ~ 20 deg of ROM on my hamstring stretch and have never had another problem with it. The initial injury occurred when I was 14 and the good tear that I described happened when I was 17, after 6-7 weeks of heavy massage. I have never had another problem with the leg since. I have played volleyball in college and have played at a very high level since. I am stronger now then I have ever been and I have remained hamstring injury free (knock on wood). The left leg injury occurred doing a head kick in a martial arts class. I used the same deep tissue massage combined with romanian deadlifts with slow eccentric contractions, and I have not had another problem with that side in the 18 years since I first injured it.

Otisbean,

I am very happy to hear about your positive outcome. Hamstring strains occur more often in adolescents because bones and muscles do not grow at the same rate. During a growth spurt, a child's bones may grow faster than the muscles. The growing bone pulls the muscle tight. A sudden jump, stretch, or impact can tear the muscle away from its connection to the bone. Many athletes at the HS and early college levels never make it further because of recurrent injuries. Once well into adulthood you are no longer fighting the bone growth forces. However, the fact remains unchanged that scar tissue never regains the strength or the elasticity of the tissues that were replaced. And once significant hamstring injury occurs, there is a predisposition for re-injury.

drs23
05-25-2010, 03:47 PM
... And once significant hamstring injury occurs, there is a predisposition for re-injury.

CnD,

How does one determine a "significant" hamstring injury? And why do so many players year after year show up at camp or OTAs or the combine for that matter with bad hammies after having just completed a full season?

Wolf
05-25-2010, 06:36 PM
Ben Tate Working hard to get healthy ASAP!! wanna be out here practicing w my teammates
9 hours ago


http://www.facebook.com/BenTateRB?ref=ts&v=wall

CloakNNNdagger
05-25-2010, 07:32 PM
CnD,

How does one determine a "significant" hamstring injury? And why do so many players year after year show up at camp or OTAs or the combine for that matter with bad hammies after having just completed a full season?

Hamstring injuries are a “strange bird.” With other injuries, you can point to a specific occurrence/cause........for example, shoulder hit accounting for dislocation injury, ankle roll accounting for torn ligament, a tackle resulting in whiplash accounting for cervical fracture, etc. But with hamstrings, there are myriad factors that can lead to ultimate injury........many times everyone is left scratching their heads to figure out what exactly, and many times, when exactly did the initial injury occur. The most common reason for a hamstring injury is an imbalance of strengths between the naturally larger, more powerful quadriceps muscle group with the weaker, smaller hamstring muscle group........especially if the quad group is further developed with exercise while the hamstring is relatively underdeveloped due to inattention........this is just an injury waiting to happen. Other causes include how the player trains......improper warmup and fatigue monitoring, postural imbalances, improper rehab from a previous injury, and simply history of previous injury. Something that has not been written about much but is also a personal observation I’ve made over the years working on athletes.........when an athlete observes a “tightness” of the hamstring, the injury has many times already occurred......but is many times ignored with the attitude that I’ll just work through it. Then comes the recognizable secondary significant injury which puts the player down.

The off season lends itself to less training monitoring and less proper restraint from fatigue and overtraining (Remember that muscle fatigue can be a major factor in any muscle injury). It’s a time that the “macho” in the athlete drives him to push beyond advisable limits. That same “macho” image drives many to minimize or hide pains or injuries because it might, as they see it (though unwisely), threaten their position on the team. As it turns out, this can be a just another road to a shortened career.

Discomfort in the hamstring should never be ignored. Rest is one of the most important parts of the beginning of rehab.......a prescription that most football players find difficult to swallow.........and especially if left to their own...........

otisbean
05-25-2010, 09:13 PM
Otisbean,

I am very happy to hear about your positive outcome. Hamstring strains occur more often in adolescents because bones and muscles do not grow at the same rate. During a growth spurt, a child's bones may grow faster than the muscles. The growing bone pulls the muscle tight. A sudden jump, stretch, or impact can tear the muscle away from its connection to the bone. Many athletes at the HS and early college levels never make it further because of recurrent injuries. Once well into adulthood you are no longer fighting the bone growth forces. However, the fact remains unchanged that scar tissue never regains the strength or the elasticity of the tissues that were replaced. And once significant hamstring injury occurs, there is a predisposition for re-injury.

Im not making the contention that scar tissue regains strength or elasticity, it forms no cross bridges so it can't generate strength or tension, and I mentioned at the beginning of my post that scar tissue is IN-elastic. We are in agreement with these points, it is my contention that a hamstring injury doesn't mean future injuries are a definite. Scar tissue adhesions can be minimized with properly executed massage therapy, ART and Graston as an example. I agree 100% with out proper care you are highly likely to re-injure the area. I have had many clients pull/strain muscles, get treatment and never have a re-injury to the same area.

Can I ask have you ever had a serious hamstring injury? I had a massive amount of scar tissue. As a martial artist I had excellent flexibility in both legs, BUT in the injured leg I had what could best be described as a "catch" I could feel that the scar tissue was preventing further ROM. You could feel a large marble sized chunk in my hammie. I wasn't until I had some that knew what they doing work on my hamstring in senior year that I had any relief. I felt the scar tissue split and my ROM instantly improved by 20 degrees, I never had another problem in that leg again.

If I hadn't had the massage work done, I would agree with you 100%, as I had 3-4 strains in the same hamstring from ages 15-17. I know that Texans have good docs in this regard.

Your other post is excellent and contains great info. The only thing I would add is most hamstring injuries that have occurred in athletes that I have worked with occurred during explosive hip extension. I would bet that weak glutes/tight hip flexors are as damaging, if not more so than over developed quads. As the glutes are supposed to be powerful hip extensors, if they are underdeveloped the hamstring will be asked to perform more than it's fair share of work. Shirley Sahrmann, the excellent PT, states that when a muscle injury occurs look for weak synergist.

To anyone reading this, if you want to minimize hamstring injuries, stop leg pressing and leg curls. Start training the hamstrings from a stretched position, ie RDLs, DLs, single led RDLs, and lunges. Make sure you have good hip flexor mobility and strong glutes. It's also important to strengthen your abdominals and external obliques, focusing on preventing motion, ie isometrics such as the front and side planks. This will hep maintain a neutral pelvis. An anterior pelvic tilt places a greater stretch on the hamstring than a neutral position does. The more you stretch a muscle the less tension it can generate, starting in a stretched position puts more stress on the muscle.

drs23
05-25-2010, 10:54 PM
CnD,

Thanks