PDA

View Full Version : AJ no show/now back to work


Pages : [1] 2

BigBull17
05-17-2010, 02:01 PM
Absent from OTA's due to contract stuff, per 610.

Pay the man. He is the best WR in football, give him the keys to the city.

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 02:03 PM
Really? Contract stuff/ I thought he signed a new deal not very long ago

Edit: He signed a 6 year deal before the 2007-2008 season worth 60 million with 15 guaranteed.

blitz90
05-17-2010, 02:04 PM
Well thats just great.

Pay me Rick part 2

infantrycak
05-17-2010, 02:05 PM
Bob McNair is a cheapskate.

There got that out of the way.

AJ is three years into an eight year deal.

False Start
05-17-2010, 02:06 PM
Well, this really sucks. If the Texans don't pay AJ I'll freak out I think.

Maybe its just something that will get worked out quick, I hope so.

HTown2ATX
05-17-2010, 02:06 PM
Really? Contract stuff/ I thought he signed a new deal not very long ago

I thought so too. Not like last year, but I thought he was locked up for a while by us.

I just got that text too. Damnit. Give him whatever he wants damnit!!!! No.........really.....

:foottap:

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 02:09 PM
I thought so too. Not like last year, but I thought he was locked up for a while by us.

I just got that text too. Damnit. Give him whatever he wants damnit!!!! No.........really.....

:foottap:

He's signed thru 2014! Screw him if he is using higher team exectations as a means to line his pockets with another $30 million.

BigBull17
05-17-2010, 02:10 PM
It's crazy. Hopefully this isnt his "plan to force a trade" his uncle talked about.

imatexan
05-17-2010, 02:12 PM
Why do players need to work out a new contract when they have a great one in place already?

I just don't get it.

AJ is still the man and should be payed whatever it is to keep him but I guess I just don't understand the process.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 02:14 PM
Why do players need to work out a new contract when they have a great one in place already?

I just don't get it.

AJ is still the man and should be payed whatever it is to keep him but I guess I just don't understand the process.


He's grabbing for another signing bonus out of fear of no football in 2011, is my guess. Plus, it turns out that he is a greedy b*stard. Dang it!

SmoochyTX
05-17-2010, 02:15 PM
This is ridiculous. He's not even halfway through his current contract, making mega bucks, and he wants more?

First Dunta and now Andre. Again, this is ridiculous.

b0ng
05-17-2010, 02:17 PM
Isn't his contract pretty small compared to the other WR around the league?

He's good so pay the man cause somebody else will. Overpay the man.

No More 8-8's
05-17-2010, 02:17 PM
Yikes, I was not expecting this at all. And to think HBO passed over us for the JETS.

But seriously, he has a long-term contract already in place. Doesnt he know their are other players are this team who have not gotten paid like him?

HOU-TEX
05-17-2010, 02:18 PM
AJ, love ya bro, but it ain't happening this year. With 5 years left on his existing deal I don't think he should get it.

In the end, it's the 1st OTA. If he doesn't show in June, I'll begin to worry. Until then, meh.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 02:18 PM
I am very sympathetic towards players holding out for a deal when they haven't had a big contract yet. A guy like OD, who was drafted in the 4th round, could get injured and never really cash in on his effort and production. Even a guy like A.Boldin, who was drafted late in the 2nd round, has been a great player but unable to score a deal that represents all he's accomplished. However, AJ was given a monster contract as a rookie and then an enormous extension. So, he's received about $40 million in only signing bonuses, not to mention salary. If he does this, I think I'm going to have to boo him.

BIG TORO
05-17-2010, 02:19 PM
This is ridiculous. He's not even halfway through his current contract, making mega bucks, and he wants more?

First Dunta and now Andre. Again, this is ridiculous.

Maybe this is why him and Dunta understood each other and got along.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 02:19 PM
Isn't his contract pretty small compared to the other WR around the league?

He's good so pay the man cause somebody else will. Overpay the man.

Not when compared to other deals signed three years ago.

Dutchrudder
05-17-2010, 02:20 PM
Eh, he's getting paid about 7.7 million a year (with signing bonus incl) and is number 8 on the WR salaries chart. He will likely drop to 9 once Brandon Marshall gets his money.

Here are the 2009 numbers according to the USA Today:
WR Salaries 2009 (http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=145)

Edit: sorry, Antonio Bryant won't be in the Top 10 next year, since his current contract is up. AJ should be number 8 next year, unless some other WR gets big bucks like Miles Austin.

WWJD
05-17-2010, 02:21 PM
Why should Bob McNair be forced to give him more money? He's already under contract. He's a millionaire. Multi at that. Go play AJ.

No More 8-8's
05-17-2010, 02:21 PM
Jesus, what ever happened to honoring your freakin" contract! I could easily understand Chris Johnson situation in regards to his contract, but Andre already got his mega deal.

This offseason does not need anymore drama.

JCTexan
05-17-2010, 02:25 PM
Eh, he's getting paid about 7.7 million a year (with signing bonus incl) and is number 8 on the WR salaries chart. He will likely drop to 9 once Brandon Marshall gets his money.

Here are the 2009 numbers according to the USA Today:
WR Salaries 2009 (http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=145)

Edit: sorry, Antonio Bryant won't be in the Top 10 next year, since his current contract is up. AJ should be number 8 next year, unless some other WR gets big bucks like Miles Austin.

This is the only thing it comes down to IMO. He's the best WR in the league and he wants to be paid like it. Having 5 years left on his contract I don't think the Texans should pay him it though.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 02:27 PM
AJ has made about $27 million in signing bonuses, $6 million in other bonuses, and about $16 million (so far thru '09) in salary. Add his endorsement money and he's made way over $50 million and is scheduled to make $6 million or more in salary each of the next 5 seasons. I find it hard to justify a hold out here. I don't mind him starting a dialogue with the team, but a hold out is totally ridiculous!

Runner
05-17-2010, 02:27 PM
I'm pretty sure Andre feels he is the best receiver in football and wants to get paid as such.

I think this has been under discussion between Andre and the team for quite some time. The Dunta Robinson negotiations were just a warm-up for Rick Smith.

BIG TORO
05-17-2010, 02:29 PM
Jesus, what ever happened to honoring your freakin" contract! I could easily understand Chris Johnson situation in regards to his contract, but Andre already got his mega deal.

This offseason does not need anymore drama.

Peoples daddy's didnt teach them to be men, and when a man gives his word you keep it.

JB
05-17-2010, 02:31 PM
AJ has made about $27 million in signing bonuses, $6 million in other bonuses, and about $16 million (so far thru '09) in salary. Add his endorsement money and he's made way over $50 million and is scheduled to make $6 million or more in salary each of the next 5 seasons. I find it hard to justify a hold out here. I don't mind him starting a dialogue with the team, but a hold out is totally ridiculous!

I think AJ is just using the only bit of leverage he has at this point. I think he is wanting to get serioius talks started. He knows the Texans have to have him to be successful. I also think that while he may skip OTA's, I have no doubt he will be there for TC. I don't have a problem with this really.

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 02:32 PM
Hopefully the Dunta situation, the Demeco situation, and the OD situation will help wit hthis one.

The texans aren't budging. You honor your contract, and thats it.

AJ doesn't need a new contract. he's already got a good one. I hope the Texans dont budge

GuerillaBlack
05-17-2010, 02:35 PM
AJ just got a new contract a few years ago. Is he going to want to get a new contract every two to three years, just because he isn't the highest paid anymore? Don't mind him missing OTAs, but he better be there from Mini-camp on.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 02:36 PM
I think AJ is just using the only bit of leverage he has at this point. I think he is wanting to get serioius talks started. He knows the Texans have to have him to be successful. I also think that while he may skip OTA's, I have no doubt he will be there for TC. I don't have a problem with this really.

He has made over $50 million is scheduled to make $6 million more this season and is under contract thru 2014... what does a holdout say about his desire to win when he uses the team's best opportunity to make the playoffs as leverage for a money grab?

JCTexan
05-17-2010, 02:39 PM
I'm pretty sure Andre feels he is the best receiver in football and wants to get paid as such.

I think this has been under discussion between Andre and the team for quite some time. The Dunta Robinson negotiations were just a warm-up for Rick Smith.

I didn't think Dunta was worth the contract he got. I'm glad they got Ryans contract worked out. Now Andre wants a new deal and you still have Daniels wanting a better deal. It's part of the business side of football. This is where Rick Smith will be judged the most as the GM.

Austrian
05-17-2010, 02:39 PM
Honestly I don't understand this and I'm disappointed in him. Kareem Jackson needs to pratice with AJ to get to NFL speed early. He's not helping his team out with that.

MightyTExan
05-17-2010, 02:39 PM
Well this was unexpected.
AJ=silent diva?

Section516
05-17-2010, 02:41 PM
One of my co-workers just told me this..

I didn't believe her..

God help us..

b0ng
05-17-2010, 02:41 PM
Okay somebody tell me why AJ shouldn't get his hands on some cash during an uncapped year. Re-do some numbers and pay him something good this year when it doesn't count.

LonerATO
05-17-2010, 02:41 PM
There is no faster way to earn the scorn of fans then a player who is already in the middle of a contract and asking for more.

J_R
05-17-2010, 02:41 PM
AJ forcing his hand? Pay me or I want out? Ehh I dont know.

Others have already mentioned this but I'll be more concerned if he's holding out in June, July, August when the "real" stuff and mandatory stuff starts

Runner
05-17-2010, 02:43 PM
Let the pillorying of the Texans' best player, who also happens to be one of their classiest and most well-respected, begin!

Blake
05-17-2010, 02:44 PM
Haha I love it. The only time a player has the advantage over the owner is when he is one of the top 10-20 players in the NFL. I dont care what contract he signed 3 years ago. If AJ thinks he deserves more then let the man negotiate. If a owner doesnt want to pay a player he can terminate the contract. I think the same should go for the players. And if this is about contract "stuff" then I am fine with it.

Take em to the bank AJ.

gwallaia
05-17-2010, 02:45 PM
Its just money. Pay him what he wants. Hell pay em all whatever they want.

They should all be billionaires.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 02:46 PM
Okay somebody tell me why AJ shouldn't get his hands on some cash during an uncapped year. Re-do some numbers and pay him something good this year when it doesn't count.

because he's using the team's opportunity for success as leverage for more money. It's a cheap, selfish, and disgusting tactic from a guy who is closing in on $100 million of income in his twenties. I hope they stick to their guns and refuse to negotiate with him while he's holding out.

HOU-TEX
05-17-2010, 02:47 PM
Let the pillorying of the Texans' best player, who also happens to be one of their classiest and most well-respected, begin!

Not from me.

I admit, I did have to look the word up

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 02:47 PM
Let the pillorying of the Texans' best player, who also happens to be one of their classiest and most well-respected, begin!

apparently not. I thought so also.

Kaiser Toro
05-17-2010, 02:51 PM
Fine him until he shows up and offer him more performance incentives based on his and the team's output. Offer him something, but it has to be towards performance.

valleytexfan
05-17-2010, 02:52 PM
effff man, what a drama-filled offseason...2010 better be worth it!! :texflag:

GuerillaBlack
05-17-2010, 02:53 PM
The fact that he didn't even show up is what's bothering me. Even though I said not showing up in May is not that big of a deal, you wouldn't expect Andre Johnson to do this. At least if he had showed up today, they could start talking. AJ dropped a couple of points in my respect-o-meter.

JB
05-17-2010, 02:53 PM
apparently not. I thought so also.

Dude was there for all the offseason workouts so far. Yetr when he misses one day of OTA's in May, you are ready to toss the #1 WR in the NFL on the trash dump?

That's pathetic...

Section516
05-17-2010, 02:54 PM
Isn't his Uncle his Agent? The same Uncle who said they'd force a trade, then AJ shot him down saying Texan 4 Life?

Maybe Ol Unc is the serpent in the ear?

HJam72
05-17-2010, 02:54 PM
Eh, he was overrated. :tomato:

:jk:

Can't believe this.

GuerillaBlack
05-17-2010, 02:56 PM
Dude was there for all the offseason workouts so far. Yetr when he misses one day of OTA's in May, you are ready to toss the #1 WR in the NFL on the trash dump?

That's pathetic...

I think it's the fact that its AJ who's holding out of OTAs because of a contract dispute. A contract that was just reworked two years ago... Doesn't look good on AJ's part, to be honest.

JB
05-17-2010, 02:58 PM
I think it's the fact that its AJ who's holding out of OTAs because of a contract dispute. A contract that was just reworked two years ago... Doesn't look good on AJ's part, to be honest.

I understand and agree with that, but it is just one day of OTAS in May at this point, and I think he will be there by TC. No reason to villify the man.

HOU-TEX
05-17-2010, 02:58 PM
Fine him until he shows up and offer him more performance incentives based on his and the team's output. Offer him something, but it has to be towards performance.

I'm not sure you can fine a player for missing a "voluntary" practice. Can you?

Dude was there for all the offseason workouts so far. Yetr when he misses one day of OTA's in May, you are ready to toss the #1 WR in the NFL on the trash dump?

That's pathetic...

Agreed. I ain't going to worry about anything right now anyway. Heck, I'm surprised he's gone this long without missing an OTA.

Runner
05-17-2010, 03:04 PM
apparently not. I thought so also.

On the Cushing threads, your buddy Barrett calls such quick change of opinion based on little information "knee-jerk".

To me it's funny how fast players fall out of favor around here.

sometexansfan
05-17-2010, 03:06 PM
The guy has had back to back 1500 yard seasons for us, he's the best WR in the NFL! If he wants to get paid like it, fine by me.

NBT
05-17-2010, 03:09 PM
I really think AJ is more worried about getting to the big game than he is about his salary. But......yah never know these days. Contracts are just something to tie the owners to. The players play it like a ping pong ball to see who can get the most.

Brisco_County
05-17-2010, 03:09 PM
because he's using the team's opportunity for success as leverage for more money. It's a cheap, selfish, and disgusting tactic from a guy who is closing in on $100 million of income in his twenties. I hope they stick to their guns and refuse to negotiate with him while he's holding out.

Peoples daddy's didnt teach them to be men, and when a man gives his word you keep it.

Business is about leverage, not principles.

What matters isn't how much he's getting now, but how much he's getting based on his market value.

J_R
05-17-2010, 03:10 PM
The guy has had back to back 1500 yard seasons for us, he's the best WR in the NFL! If he wants to get paid like it, fine by me.

Problem is, he just got paid. Still has 5 years(?) left on his deal.

You tellin' me each year a top WR gets a new contract, AJ gotta get a new one?

Brandon Marshall got his contract. Top paid WR I believe or is going to be.
What if next year, lets just say Larry Fitzgerald or Chad Ochocinco, are paid as the new highest paid WR, we gonna go pay AJ again?

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 03:10 PM
On the Cushing threads, your buddy Barrett calls such quick change of opinion based on little information "knee-jerk".

To me it's funny how fast players fall out of favor around here.

Why are you surprised?

These aren't family members or close friends. They are strangers for all intents and purposes. Hell, most of us hardly recognize their faces because they wear full helmets and masks when we see them.

We judge players by a few small pieces of information:
How good are they at football
How much do they help our team
How likeable are they off the field
What are they like off the field
etc

AJ is the best football player on this team
He is indispensible to the offense of our team
He is extremely likeable and polite
He is not a trouble maker off the field

If something in this list changes (he goes from helping the team to hurting the team for example, or he goes from likeable off field to greedy off field) it is a big shift because we know so little about the players to begin with.

Aj seemed like a guy who wanted to win more than anything. Now he's jeopardizing the team (him not being at practice does hurt the whole team) on purpose to restructure a 6 year contract he's not even a 3rd of the way through. Thats a big shift from the AJ we all "knew"

GuerillaBlack
05-17-2010, 03:14 PM
Problem is, he just got paid. Still has 5 years(?) left on his deal.

You tellin' me each year a top WR gets a new contract, AJ gotta get a new one?

Brandon Marshall got his contract. Top paid WR I believe or is going to be.
What if next year, lets just say Larry Fitzgerald or Chad Ochocinco, are paid as the new highest paid WR, we gonna go pay AJ again?

Exactly. Rep.

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 03:15 PM
This is 100% on AJ in my mind.

Players complain about wanting long term deals because they want that insurance policy in case they get injured.

AJ got a 6 year deal 2 years ago.

Either you take the short term deal and hope your play improves and you can get an even larger deal, or you take the long term deal and you wait until you're at least halfway through.

The timing on this is just awful.

Kaiser Toro
05-17-2010, 03:17 PM
I'm not sure you can fine a player for missing a "voluntary" practice. Can you?



Agreed. I ain't going to worry about anything right now anyway. Heck, I'm surprised he's gone this long without missing an OTA.

I doubt it, but the assumption, based on the player's perceived leverage, is that it will extend through TC. The Texans need to nip this in the bud professionally immediately, before it spirals into an emotional circus.

Thorn
05-17-2010, 03:17 PM
I hate this part of football. Well, screw it. Trade him for two number 1s to someone who will pay and let's move on.

I really dislike this part of football. Some much I had to say it twice. :)

Ole Miss Texan
05-17-2010, 03:17 PM
On the Cushing threads, your buddy Barrett calls such quick change of opinion based on little information "knee-jerk".

To me it's funny how fast players fall out of favor around here.

It's Houston. We're a bunch of hard working people that expect the same from the athletes we watch. If you're a prima donna then you best be on your way. If you're upset at the millions of $'s your making, then you're not going to get sympathy from us. Adjust your panties and get back to playing. That's who we are.

All these contract disputes always frustrate the crud out of me. Part of it is I completely see both sides of the table and I feel for both sides. Andre's case is different to me though. In my mind, he is easily the best WR in the league. He is nothing but a class act on and off the field. He's a leader, he's EXACTLY what you want in a football player and citizen of your City. But on the other hand, he just signed a long term deal. 2007, he signed an 8 year deal! He leads the league in receptions and yards for 2 straigth season - performance often speeds up renegotiating. But you have to believe in 07, he was already viewed as one of the top WRs in the league and expected to perform at a very high level. You don't buy an 8 year CD right now if you think rates are going to rise. But the NFL is a completely different beast.

At the end of the day, It's Andre Johnson. You pay the guy and make sure he retires a Texan. Just sign him to another 8 year deal so you can go back to the table in another couple years....

BIG TORO
05-17-2010, 03:17 PM
Business is about leverage, not principles.

What matters isn't how much he's getting now, but how much he's getting based on his market value.


Thats what is wrong with the world today everybody is out for them selves, business, and money is all that matters. GREED!

Rey
05-17-2010, 03:17 PM
If I was a player I would not be concerned with honoring a contract when owners are not held to the same standards. They can pretty much cut a player at anytime and only have the salary cap to worry about.

All this time I kept thinking that AJ was a better man than me because if I was the top (1 or 2) player at my position I'd want to be paid like it. Well, I guess he isn't a better man than me and we are basically the same...Good for you AJ...get your money.

chicagotexan2
05-17-2010, 03:18 PM
The guy has had back to back 1500 yard seasons for us, he's the best WR in the NFL! If he wants to get paid like it, fine by me.

I think he has earned it in fact exceeded it. I'm sure they can find a way to not ruin our cap space. Andre Johnson is an elite player.

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 03:19 PM
If I was a player I would not be concerned with honoring a contract when owners are not held to the same standards. They can pretty much cut a player at anytime and only have the salary cap to worry about.

All this time I kept thinking that AJ was a better man than me because if I was the top (1 or 2) player at my position I'd want to be paid like it. Well, I guess he isn't a better man than me and we are basically the same...Good for you AJ...get your money.

Thats why the NFLPA insisted on guaranteed money. They agreed to the current contract system

infantrycak
05-17-2010, 03:20 PM
because he's using the team's opportunity for success as leverage for more money. It's a cheap, selfish, and disgusting tactic from a guy who is closing in on $100 million of income in his twenties. I hope they stick to their guns and refuse to negotiate with him while he's holding out.

Holy over reaction batman. How do you know this is some calculated opportunity for success thing rather than a realization he didn't get as much as he should/could last time and seeing the contracts of guys like Fitzgerald who the next year signed a contract averaging $10 mil per year?

Fine him until he shows up

Can't fine him until training camp.

A contract that was just reworked two years ago... Doesn't look good on AJ's part, to be honest.

He has played 3 of the years of the contract. 2007, 8 and 9.

Ole Miss Texan
05-17-2010, 03:21 PM
This is 100% on AJ in my mind.

Players complain about wanting long term deals because they want that insurance policy in case they get injured.

AJ got a 6 year deal 2 years ago.

Either you take the short term deal and hope your play improves and you can get an even larger deal, or you take the long term deal and you wait until you're at least halfway through.

The timing on this is just awful.

Actually it's 8 years which makes it seem even worse!!!

3/3/2007: Signed an eight-year, $60 million contract. The deal includes $15 million guaranteed. 2010: $5.8 million, 2011: $6.8 million, 2012: $7.3 million, 2013: $7 million, 2014: $7.3 million, 2015: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1575

Rey
05-17-2010, 03:22 PM
Thats why the NFLPA insisted on guaranteed money. They agreed to the current contract system

I get the fact that players get guaranteed money, but that still doesn't change the fact that that a team doesn't have to honor the entire contract. Why should the player?

IMO, Andre has already earned his guaranteed money.

BIG TORO
05-17-2010, 03:22 PM
I think he has earned it in fact exceeded it. I'm sure they can find a way to not ruin our cap space. Andre Johnson is an elite player.

He is an elite player, but when will it ever be enough. If all elite players keep doing this everything goes up and in the end the fans get screwed. Thats why why pay thousands in season tickets, commercials cost more and in return consumer goods cost more, when will it end.

eriadoc
05-17-2010, 03:23 PM
1.) For anyone commenting about "honoring the contract" and "living up to your word", perhaps you should hold the owners to the same standard. The fact is, the players are the only ones expected to live up to any contracts. If a team wants to cut a player, the only real money they're on the hook for is the signing bonus. And that is why you see players going after signing bonuses.

2.) Business is about leverage, not principles: AJ doesn't really have much leverage here, IMO.

This is a case of a multi-millionaire jockeying to get more money from a multi-billionaire. I take no sides because I see how both of them are being greedy.

Fox
05-17-2010, 03:24 PM
Fine him until he shows up and offer him more performance incentives based on his and the team's output. Offer him something, but it has to be towards performance.

This sounds like a good compromise to me. If he wants his pay to continue to reflect his play, which is the best of any WR in the NFL, then give him performance incentives that will reward him for continuing to get it done. He's the only bonafide elite player on our roster and he's stuck with this franchise with little pouting through some tough times, I have no problem with him requesting compensation that more accurately reflects his performance.

Runner
05-17-2010, 03:24 PM
Why are you surprised?



It's too predictable by now to be surprising. I think it's humorous when I compare views about the corporate giant "Houston Texans" and its actions compared to views on the players and their individual actions.

BIG TORO
05-17-2010, 03:26 PM
1.) For anyone commenting about "honoring the contract" and "living up to your word", perhaps you should hold the owners to the same standard. The fact is, the players are the only ones expected to live up to any contracts. If a team wants to cut a player, the only real money they're on the hook for is the signing bonus. And that is why you see players going after signing bonuses.

2.) Business is about leverage, not principles: AJ doesn't really have much leverage here, IMO.

This is a case of a multi-millionaire jockeying to get more money from a multi-billionaire. I take no sides because I see how both of them are being greedy.

I do agree owners should have the same standard and live up to there word as well.

HJam72
05-17-2010, 03:27 PM
Thats what is wrong with the world today everybody is out for them selves, business, and money is all that matters. GREED!

That is not quite true. Not everyone is greedy, but greed is a form of selfishness and almost everyone is selfish these days....one way or another.

You do have to consider also that these guys are thinking about sending 40 relatives to Harvard and starting a charity and....well, paying for drugs and parties and keeping their wife and their mistresses happy. Oh, and buying their daughter a mozaratti, a prince, a college, and her own freaking hospital to work at....maybe on her own protected little island with a fully paid military unit for defense....with a few battleships nearby, one carrier full of F-whatevers.............and a nuclear sub with you-know-what. No, I don't think some young ladies are spoiled. No, not me. Pft.

Anyway, tha man gotta lotta *(&^ to pay for.

Edit: No drugs were given to AJ during this post. Especially not performance enhancing ones. I took a few....but AJ, he hangs out with Cushing AND THEY'RE BOTH INNOCENT AND SHOULD PLAY EVERY GAME THIS YEAR.

Ole Miss Texan
05-17-2010, 03:28 PM
From a team's perspective, sometimes the contract issues can 'balance' themselves out. You'll always have players that outperform their contract and some that underperform. That's just part of the game - you waste a lot of money on players that don't do jack or that get injured, while you reap the benifits with some players that do really well. But you really do want the players that have earned their money to get paid.

This is why I think building through the draft is so important. Barring a top 10 draft pick, rookies make very little in relation to veterans and it's tougher for them to renegotiate their rookie contracts unless they become studs like Revis or Willis. So you can capitalize on getting quality play from young players on the cheap while being able to pay your proven veteran players like Andre Johnson.

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 03:28 PM
I do agree owners should have the same standard and live up to there word as well.

Then there shouldn't be guaranteed money and huge signing bonuses.

The CBA is a give some get some deal.

The owners wanted the ability to cut players who werent performing up to their contract level. The players wanted the ability to have guaranteed salaries.

They came up with the system we have now.

Its balanced.

When an owner signs a guy for 8 years and 60 million, and the guy plays like Betty White, he should have to continue to pay him for the full term of ht econtract? No, thats what guaranteed money is for.

When an owners signs a guy for 8 years and 60 million and he outperforms his contract, should he have to pay him for the full term? Yes, or they can restructure. This holding out business is just annoying

sometexansfan
05-17-2010, 03:30 PM
Problem is, he just got paid. Still has 5 years(?) left on his deal.

You tellin' me each year a top WR gets a new contract, AJ gotta get a new one?

Brandon Marshall got his contract. Top paid WR I believe or is going to be.
What if next year, lets just say Larry Fitzgerald or Chad Ochocinco, are paid as the new highest paid WR, we gonna go pay AJ again?

Yeah he got paid two years ago. And what has he done in those two years? Posted back to back 1500+ yard seasons, only the second WR ever to do that. Now if he were making let's say Top 5 money for his position right now, I'd understand, but I believe somebody posted that he's the 8th(?) highest paid WR in the league as of now. If I was the best at my job and got paid the 8th highest, I know I'd probably want more.

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 03:32 PM
Yeah he got paid two years ago. And what has he done in those two years? Posted back to back 1500+ yard seasons, only the second WR ever to do that. Now if he were making let's say Top 5 money for his position right now, I'd understand, but I believe somebody posted that he's the 8th(?) highest paid WR in the league as of now. If I was the best at my job and got paid the 8th highest, I know I'd probably want more.

Then you shouldn't have signed an 8 year deal.

Its like OMT said. You dont buy an 8 year CD if you think rates are going to increase.

He wanted the long term deal, he got it, now he should play for at least half of it.

HJam72
05-17-2010, 03:32 PM
I do agree owners should have the same standard and live up to there word as well.

Exactually. :thinking:

imatexan
05-17-2010, 03:32 PM
Why are you surprised?

These aren't family members or close friends. They are strangers for all intents and purposes. Hell, most of us hardly recognize their faces because they wear full helmets and masks when we see them.

We judge players by a few small pieces of information:
How good are they at football
How much do they help our team
How likeable are they off the field
What are they like off the field
etc

AJ is the best football player on this team
He is indispensible to the offense of our team
He is extremely likeable and polite
He is not a trouble maker off the field

If something in this list changes (he goes from helping the team to hurting the team for example, or he goes from likeable off field to greedy off field) it is a big shift because we know so little about the players to begin with.

Aj seemed like a guy who wanted to win more than anything. Now he's jeopardizing the team (him not being at practice does hurt the whole team) on purpose to restructure a 6 year contract he's not even a 3rd of the way through. Thats a big shift from the AJ we all "knew"


Hardly recognize their faces!?

Come on, I bet every single person on this board would recognize AJ if we saw him in person and if you didn't not sure how much of a Texans FANatic you would be.

Señor Stan
05-17-2010, 03:33 PM
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g67/senorstan/aj80.jpg

Ole Miss Texan
05-17-2010, 03:34 PM
Yeah he got paid two years ago. And what has he done in those two years? Posted back to back 1500+ yard seasons, only the second WR ever to do that. Now if he were making let's say Top 5 money for his position right now, I'd understand, but I believe somebody posted that he's the 8th(?) highest paid WR in the league as of now. If I was the best at my job and got paid the 8th highest, I know I'd probably want more.

I have the same feeling, but on the other hand he was regarded as one of the top WRs in the league back then. The rich contract he signed with the Texans, I believe had a lot to do with the expectation that he would continue performing as a top WR. Obviously those back to back years were great, but it almost looks like "pay me to do this... then when I do it you should pay me more because I did it."

BIG TORO
05-17-2010, 03:34 PM
Then there shouldn't be guaranteed money and huge signing bonuses.

The CBA is a give some get some deal.

The owners wanted the ability to cut players who werent performing up to their contract level. The players wanted the ability to have guaranteed salaries.

They came up with the system we have now.

Its balanced.

When an owner signs a guy for 8 years and 60 million, and the guy plays like Betty White, he should have to continue to pay him for the full term of ht econtract? No, thats what guaranteed money is for.

When an owners signs a guy for 8 years and 60 million and he outperforms his contract, should he have to pay him for the full term? Yes, or they can restructure. This holding out business is just annoying

It's all a cluster*uck and thats why we probaly wont have football in 2011!

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 03:35 PM
Hardly recognize their faces!?

Come on, I bet every single person on this board would recognize AJ if we saw him in person and if you didn't not sure how much of a Texans FANatic you would be.

AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it


Example: Who is this?

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics2/200/CO/COKVCRASUDSYUDA.20050819140339.jpg

Hint: He is a starter

HuttoKarl
05-17-2010, 03:35 PM
Meh...redo his deal with a fat frontloaded non-capped year deal so he gets his cash and we keep him for another five years. He's worth it.

Ole Miss Texan
05-17-2010, 03:35 PM
This is a case of a multi-millionaire jockeying to get more money from a multi-billionaire.
Well, in McNair's defense, he's not a multi-billionaire. :stirpot: lol

HJam72
05-17-2010, 03:36 PM
OK, so I jumped the gun. Anyway, you gotta pay the man (and all his relatives, etc.). U lose him, u lose all yer fans. :wild:

indiantexan
05-17-2010, 03:36 PM
AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it


Example: Who is this?

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics2/200/CO/COKVCRASUDSYUDA.20050819140339.jpg

Hint: He is a starter

Diles lol

J_R
05-17-2010, 03:36 PM
Hardly recognize their faces!?

Come on, I bet every single person on this board would recognize AJ if we saw him in person and if you didn't not sure how much of a Texans FANatic you would be.

What if I confuse him for 50 cent or vice versa :p

Rey
05-17-2010, 03:37 PM
This doesn't really have much to do with AJ, but contracts in general...I figured I'd post it here rather than start a new thread...

Does anybody know why some players have such ridiculous incentives in their contracts?

For instance, I think in Mike Briesel's contract he gets some kind of bonus if he blocks 8 kicks...

What the hell is that about, and are these contracts really what they seem?

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 03:37 PM
AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it


Example: Who is this?

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics2/200/CO/COKVCRASUDSYUDA.20050819140339.jpg

Hint: He is a starter

umm, Zach Diles.

JB
05-17-2010, 03:38 PM
Yeah he got paid two years ago. And what has he done in those two years? Posted back to back 1500+ yard seasons, only the second WR ever to do that. Now if he were making let's say Top 5 money for his position right now, I'd understand, but I believe somebody posted that he's the 8th(?) highest paid WR in the league as of now. If I was the best at my job and got paid the 8th highest, I know I'd probably want more.

In total salary for 2009, AJ was the 16th highest paid WR in the league.

Yeah, I would want to talk about a new deal also...

HJam72
05-17-2010, 03:38 PM
Can McNair afford to pay him what he's worth? :choke:

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 03:38 PM
Diles lol

ha, right. But I'd be willing to bet you that most texans fans would not recognize the majority of our team.

The elite top guys, they are easy. You see them on ads, on the website, etc. But the rest of the guys, even the starters, you rarely see without their helmets on.

BIG TORO
05-17-2010, 03:39 PM
AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it


Example: Who is this?

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics2/200/CO/COKVCRASUDSYUDA.20050819140339.jpg

Hint: He is a starter

That's easy, Eric Winston!

keyser
05-17-2010, 03:39 PM
Thats why the NFLPA insisted on guaranteed money. They agreed to the current contract system

Exactly right. Players and owners understand this system when they sign - it's a major reason for the huge signing bonuses. If players could terminate a contract at any time (in fact, they can by retiring - they just can't play for another team in the mean time), then you would see signing bonuses rapidly dwindle. Both sides take a risk - the owners have the chance that the player won't play to the level to earn that large signing bonus, and the players take the risk that they're giving up more potential future earnings if they do particularly well.

Back to this situation, I don't think we have any word from Andre or his agent about why he's not there. I will wait just a bit before coming down too hard on him. So far, except for the one comment last year by his uncle/agent that Andre himself quickly contradicted, Andre has handled things remarkably smoothly, so I'd like to give him some benefit of the doubt here.

If Andre really does skip something like the (non-voluntary) minicamp or training camp, then I will be upset, as he's not living up to his contract. There are some cases where I have more sympathy for a player - e.g. someone signs a longer contract to be a role player and turns into a dominant starter; I can kind of understand them holding out when we're talking many times their existing salary. But, for the most part, players should live up to their commitments. In this case, Andre is already being paid as "a" top receiver in the NFL, though not "the" top receiver (which he arguably is). As in the Mr. Deed's film, I don't think he'd be returning his money if he ends up not performing well, though.

As a further note the OTAs are supposed to be "voluntary." I have a general point of annoyance about all sorts of things in life that are "voluntary" but in practice have severe negative consequences if you don't follow them (ummm... except for the things where I am the one who is wanting the "voluntary" participation....). I know there was a Cowboy's player a few years ago made fun of for his "What do voluntary mean?" line, but I actually have some sympathy to the point of view. If teams want to make these things mandatory, they should negotiate to make them that way, either through individual contracts or through the CBA.

Runner
05-17-2010, 03:39 PM
Andre renegotiated his original contract before it was up, and I think that was the plan the day he signed it (and Texans fans jumped for joy). It appears he is attempting to repeat that process.

I wouldn't be surprised that words such as "prove you're worth more and let's talk again in a couple of years" are exchanged during negotiations. Maybe not.

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 03:39 PM
umm, Zach Diles.

Ive been following this team since its inception, and if I saw that guy on the street, I wouldn't look twice. No way would I recognize him as one of our guys

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 03:40 PM
In total salary for 2009, AJ was the 16th highest paid WR in the league.

Yeah, I would want to talk about a new deal also...

I don't care what ranking he falls in. I like the approach that McNair took last offseason. "You'll get paid when you make the playoffs". I love Andre Johnson, but until this team actually takes the next step and we reach the postseason...I don't want to hear anyone bitching about a new contract.

Kulluminatii
05-17-2010, 03:41 PM
Wow, did not expect something like this from AJ. Hmm, I wonder if Al would take this opportunity to offer Nnamdi + a pick for AJ...oh god, AJ in silver & black!

http://www.alessioproietti.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/drooling-homer.gif

Seriously though, this is really surprising. AJ is one of the last people I'd expect to do this. He does deserve it though, so hopefully this is taken care of quickly.


Anywho, back to dreaming about AJ...as a Raider :shades:.

*prepares for the massive amount of neg rep coming my way*

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 03:43 PM
Ive been following this team since its inception, and if I saw that guy on the street, I wouldn't look twice. No way would I recognize him as one of our guys

I would, but there's players on this team that I wouldn't notice if I saw them on the street, such as Antwaun Molden...since we never even see him on the field. Hell I'd have to look it up to see what # he wears, because it's been that long since I've seen him on the field.

imatexan
05-17-2010, 03:43 PM
AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it


Example: Who is this?

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics2/200/CO/COKVCRASUDSYUDA.20050819140339.jpg

Hint: He is a starter

Ya I guess it depends on the player.

At first I thought it was Slaton haha.

TexansFight
05-17-2010, 03:47 PM
That's just ****ing great. Awesome, cherry on top of a ****ing shitty offseason. I just have a sense of foreboding rather than optimism this season. Our offseason has been terrible. I am dying for playoffs but I just don't like what I am seeing from the Texans. I hope and pray that I am wrong.

Thorn
05-17-2010, 03:50 PM
You know, it's just our luck. Right when the Texans are about to finally win a Super Bowl a giant meteor strikes the earth and kills us all.

scourge
05-17-2010, 03:50 PM
AJ has been my favorite player in the league since he was drafted. That's never changed and won't regardless of what team he ever ends up on. While I am upset that this couldn't happen at a worse time, I understand his side as well as the teams side. With the potential lockout, who knows how things will turn out later.

I say "Pay the man. Pay that man his money."
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/blog/juiyinjong/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/teddykbg.jpg

He's earned everything given so far and then some. Perhaps just give a large signing/incentive bonus, maybe backload the actual salary. Don't care, but mark my words... No AJ, no playoffs. At least not this year.

Ole Miss Texan
05-17-2010, 03:54 PM
ha, right. But I'd be willing to bet you that most texans fans would not recognize the majority of our team.

The elite top guys, they are easy. You see them on ads, on the website, etc. But the rest of the guys, even the starters, you rarely see without their helmets on.

I could probably name a decent number from their pictures but if you see them at the grocery store, more often than not you'd be pretty sure they were a Texans but could exactly pin point it. Then you run the risk if it's just a big black dude and you look like an *****! lol edit: **** = it-e-it

This would actually be a lot of fun to do. Maybe a "Name that Texan" thread where you just see a head shot. For instance, I wouldn't recognize this guy if he sat next to me on the airplane... but he's kind of one of our favorites!

http://www.houstontexans.com/UserFiles/Image/600pollardchat.jpg

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 03:55 PM
Pollard

ChampionTexan
05-17-2010, 03:57 PM
Ring....Ring....Ring...

AJ: Hello, this is Andre Johnson

RS: Andre, it's Rick

AJ: Rick?

RS: Yeah, Rick Smith.

AJ: Our old defensive coordinator?

RS: No that was Richard - this is Rick.

AJ: Sorry - I'm gonna need a little more than that

RS: I work with Gary

AJ: Not helping

RS: I work for Gary

AJ: Oh yeah, now I got it. What's up?

RS: Well, we've had this thing with going on with Cushing for a while now

AJ: Yeah, I think I might have heard something about that

RS: And we think that it's time for the next big thing to divert attention from that

AJ: Yeah, so?

RS: Well, we were thinking if you could just make a little noise about your contract...

AJ: But I'm happy with my contract

RS: Oh don't worry, we're not planning on changing anything about it, it's just that with all the goodwill you've built up, we're thinking that you could weather things better than Cush, plus, a contract situation's not near as big a deal as a suspension.

AJ: So what do I do...
And there you have it!

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 03:57 PM
AJ has been my favorite player in the league since he was drafted. That's never changed and won't regardless of what team he ever ends up on. While I am upset that this couldn't happen at a worse time, I understand his side as well as the teams side. With the potential lockout, who knows how things will turn out later.

I say "Pay the man. Pay that man his money."
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/blog/juiyinjong/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/teddykbg.jpg

He's earned everything given so far and then some. Perhaps just give a large signing/incentive bonus, maybe backload the actual salary. Don't care, but mark my words... No AJ, no playoffs. At least not this year.

There's no need to pay him right now. He has absolutely no leverage....he's barely into the contract that he signed and he's not going to sit out the whole season.

Don't pay the man........atleast not this year. Sorry AJ, but you have no leverage here....maybe if you get the Texans into the playoffs we'll talk next year.

NitroGSXR
05-17-2010, 03:59 PM
For those on the season ticket payment plan, your final payment's due TOMORROW! I would declare a season ticket payment holdout if I wasn't all paid up.

:fans:

Runner
05-17-2010, 04:01 PM
Eh, he was overrated. :tomato:

:jk:

Can't believe this.

I'm going to be crushed when I find out he was just a system player and therefore easily replaceable. :)

GP
05-17-2010, 04:04 PM
(Sigh)

We need a :damnit: smiley emoticon

I don't even have any words for this crap.

Rey
05-17-2010, 04:08 PM
(Sigh)

We need a :damnit: smiley emoticon

I don't even have any words for this crap.

Does this count:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/551277819_c6ec678d81.jpg

Shaft75
05-17-2010, 04:09 PM
AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it


Example: Who is this?

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics2/200/CO/COKVCRASUDSYUDA.20050819140339.jpg

Hint: He is a starter

:thinking: John Busing

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 04:11 PM
Holy over reaction batman. How do you know this is some calculated opportunity for success thing rather than a realization he didn't get as much as he should/could last time and seeing the contracts of guys like Fitzgerald who the next year signed a contract averaging $10 mil per year?


Maybe it's an overreaction. But, it is due to disappointment. If I knew him to be a "me" guy then I probably wouldn't react quite as harshly. I was surprised and disappointed. If he attends the mandatory stuff, then I think it isn't too big of a deal. But, let me explain:

If this strategy is effective, it is because the organization feels it has an opportunity to win (or pressure to do so). His holdout is threatening the team's ability to have success. That is what he is counting on... for the Texans to think "man, we can win this division but we need AJ to beat Indy, so we better give him what he wants"... That is appalling to me. Nobody made him sign that deal three years ago. It was something he wanted to do. Now, he's played less than half of it out and he's going to holdout? If he wants to be the highest paid receiver each year then his strategy should be to sign one year contracts. But, of course, he wants the security of the long term deal.... until it is inconvenient for him. Hard to sympathize with a guy that has made the money he has.

b0ng
05-17-2010, 04:12 PM
I'm pretty sure Busing is a honkey.

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 04:12 PM
I'm pretty sure Busing is a honkey.

Plus, hopefully not a starter

Goatcheese
05-17-2010, 04:13 PM
Cut him Rick!

Andre Davis can carry his water and then some.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 04:15 PM
On the Cushing threads, your buddy Barrett calls such quick change of opinion based on little information "knee-jerk".

To me it's funny how fast players fall out of favor around here.


Yeah, I was a little knee-jerk with this. It happens. If he's in min-camp, it'll be fine. That being said, the Cushing situation is somewhat different. Nobody knows the truth with him. Regarding AJ, Rick Smith said he's not at OTAs due to a contract dispute. I'm confident Rick Smith isn't lying or misinformed about that.

NitroGSXR
05-17-2010, 04:17 PM
Cut him Rick!

Andre Davis can carry his water and then some.

I'm thinking Dorin Dickerson...

:texan:

redwhiteANDblue
05-17-2010, 04:19 PM
Im thinking Jacoby Jones :cow:

GuerillaBlack
05-17-2010, 04:21 PM
I'm thinking Dorin Dickerson...

:texan:

Can't wait to see him on the field. He'll be a surprise.

But I agree with others that say AJ should wait until after this season. If/when we make the playoffs, then he'll be payed in the offseason.

Runner
05-17-2010, 04:21 PM
Regarding AJ, Rick Smith said he's not at OTAs due to a contract dispute.

So this single statement justifies the vitriol and totally redefines Andre Johnson as a human being? Can you imagine any details about the situation that aren't known that may have an opposite effect?

Maybe the fans' collective imagination has been burnt out on finding obscure Cushing what-ifs.

redwhiteANDblue
05-17-2010, 04:22 PM
Check NFLN they are talking about it

Thorn
05-17-2010, 04:25 PM
I'm all out of room in my brain for any additional Houston Texan crises. I can't be bothered with this. I'd have to forget something in order to clear brain space for any concern to be applied to this situation.

GuerillaBlack
05-17-2010, 04:25 PM
Check NFLN they are talking about it

It was the opening segment on NFL Live on ESPN, too. Clip will probably be up shortly.

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 04:26 PM
Rick Smith regarding the situation...

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=4105&play_clip=Y

Brisco_County
05-17-2010, 04:30 PM
From Adam Schefter's Twitter:

Not sure exactly how this happened, but over the past 10 days, the Houston Texans have morphed into a huge headline-making machine.

Andre Johnson negotiated his last deal by himself, using an uncle as an advisor. Saved himself three percent and cost himself 100 percent.

Agree with the second one. This is why there are professional agents who do this for a living.

IDEXAN
05-17-2010, 04:31 PM
Move him, he's 30 next summer but right now he's still got some real value.
He's healthy, like I say still < 30, at the top of his game, and without question one of the 2 or 3 best WRS in the game.
The thing is if we go 7-9 or 6-10 this year (it could really happen, just look at that schedule), then next year after no playoffs again he's gonna be really unhappy and flatout demand a trade.
I don't expect McNair to do it, but it's the best business decision which is obviously what's motivating Johnson & his unc.

Rey
05-17-2010, 04:33 PM
Move him, he's 30 next summer but right now he's still got some real value.
He's healthy, like I say still < 30, at the top of his game, and without question one of the 2 or 3 best WRS in the game.
The thing is if we go 7-9 or 6-10 this year (it could really happen, just look at that schedule), then next year after no playoffs again he's gonna be really unhappy and flatout demand a trade.
I don't expect McNair to do it, but it's the best business decision which is obviously what's motivating Johnson & his unc.

So are you saying we should just concede everything, and pretty much roll over in a ditch and die?

Section516
05-17-2010, 04:38 PM
Move him, he's 30 next summer but right now he's still got some real value.
He's healthy, like I say still < 30, at the top of his game, and without question one of the 2 or 3 best WRS in the game.
The thing is if we go 7-9 or 6-10 this year (it could really happen, just look at that schedule), then next year after no playoffs again he's gonna be really unhappy and flatout demand a trade.
I don't expect McNair to do it, but it's the best business decision which is obviously what's motivating Johnson & his unc.

Would you really want to see this offense without AJ? Seriously.

He is the beacon of hope.

Now, if he refuses to play, yeah, trade him, take the value hit.

We don't have a #1 WR. Andre Davis isn't going to cut it. Not anymore.

HuttoKarl
05-17-2010, 04:39 PM
Trade him for Suh.












kidding....mostly.

IDEXAN
05-17-2010, 04:40 PM
So are you saying we should just concede everything, and pretty much roll over in a ditch and die?
As I said the Texans should look upon this as a business opportunity. They now have the perfect excuse to sound out the market, under the radar of course.
You'd think they'd be able to get the kind of deal Detroit got from Dallas for Williams (amazing what a stupid move that was by Dallas ?), but even Andre Johnson might not bring a first-round & middle-round pick since he's pushing 30 ?

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 04:41 PM
Move him, he's 30 next summer but right now he's still got some real value.
He's healthy, like I say still < 30, at the top of his game, and without question one of the 2 or 3 best WRS in the game.
The thing is if we go 7-9 or 6-10 this year (it could really happen, just look at that schedule), then next year after no playoffs again he's gonna be really unhappy and flatout demand a trade.
I don't expect McNair to do it, but it's the best business decision which is obviously what's motivating Johnson & his unc.

Andre Johnson still has atleast another 5 years of dominant play left. You don't trade him, that would be a stupid business decision and would hurt your franchise.

Runner
05-17-2010, 04:42 PM
So are you saying we should just concede everything, and pretty much roll over in a ditch and die?

Why not? It wasn't that long ago he couldn't catch more than a two yard slant. He ruined Dave Carr.

:sarcasm:

Rey
05-17-2010, 04:42 PM
As I said the Texans should look upon this as a business opportunity. They now have the perfect excuse to sound out the market, under the radar of course.
You'd think they'd be able to get the kind of deal Detroit got from Dallas for Williams (amazing what a stupid move that was by Dallas ?), but even Andre Johnson might not bring a first-round & middle-round pick since he's pushing 30 ?


I kinda understand what you're saying, but trading AJ changes the entire outlook of our season.

Our best player on offense and our best player on defense gone (for 4 wks)...

That's giving me the shivers...

New_Texans
05-17-2010, 04:43 PM
Well...if they can just re-negotiate it....i though Andre adjusted his contract to save us money =/

this is annoying...especially since Jackson won't be getting schooled by Andre in preparation for the other ppl he'll have to go up against.

Come on Andre, spare us the pain....Cushing now this...ugh....

Goatcheese
05-17-2010, 04:43 PM
Don't trade him! Cut him Rick!

We need to send a message to players around the league. "This is Houston, you're not getting paid huge bank unless you're wildly overrated."

DerekLee1
05-17-2010, 04:45 PM
Jesus, what ever happened to honoring your freakin" contract! I could easily understand Chris Johnson situation in regards to his contract, but Andre already got his mega deal.

This offseason does not need anymore drama.

The NFL screwed this up. They can cut players for any reason and not have to pay them, other than the "guaranteed money". I think all contracts should be "guaranteed" by both parties and this nonsense would stop. Also, if a player doesn't honor HIS contract (i.e., holding out), they should be penalized. Not just forfeiting a paycheck, but actually having to PAY money.

GuerillaBlack
05-17-2010, 04:45 PM
Rick Smith regarding the situation...

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=4105&play_clip=Y

Some good comments made by Rick. Seemed like one of the reporters tried to get Smith to question AJ's character. Rick dodged that pretty well.

New_Texans
05-17-2010, 04:48 PM
i guess we should worry if he skips out on mini camp but i still want him out there schooling Jackson...

DerekLee1
05-17-2010, 04:54 PM
Don't trade him! Cut him Rick!

We need to send a message to players around the league. "This is Houston, you're not getting paid huge bank unless you're wildly overrated."

This notion that the Texans are "cheap" or that Bob McNair doesn't pay players is just ridiculous. This isn't baseball, where you can pay any player any amount of money, or the NBA where you pay a "luxury tax" for overpaying players. You have a budget you MUST work under called the salary cap. You give Dunta $23MM and OD $10MM, how do you sign DeMeco? You give Andre $30MM, how do you keep OD? It's messy, and it's tricky, and you have to pay players value while still fitting under the cap.

So tired of people calling McNair "cheap".

TheRealJoker
05-17-2010, 05:03 PM
Players in sports that get to elite status are extremely competitive. They want to win everywhere, not just off the field. AJ is being paid well (so is everyone else in the league). But he's not being paid in line with his performance compared to other players.

His contract is outdated and he wants to "compete" with the other premium players at his position for the top salary.

Business is business. He's in a perfect position to make these demands, coming off of back to back #1 WR in the NFL seasons. Players like him and Revis are welcome to renegotiate when they've shown they are the creme de la creme at their position yet aren't being paid in the top 3-5 players each year.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 05:04 PM
So this single statement justifies the vitriol and totally redefines Andre Johnson as a human being? Can you imagine any details about the situation that aren't known that may have an opposite effect?

Maybe the fans' collective imagination has been burnt out on finding obscure Cushing what-ifs.

I said that I overreacted. Can't I be disappointed in the guy's decision-making here? I'd love to hear your theory as to how this no show regarding his contract isn't a selfish and unjustified money grab.

Double Barrel
05-17-2010, 05:06 PM
Haha I love it. The only time a player has the advantage over the owner is when he is one of the top 10-20 players in the NFL. I dont care what contract he signed 3 years ago. If AJ thinks he deserves more then let the man negotiate. If a owner doesnt want to pay a player he can terminate the contract. I think the same should go for the players. And if this is about contract "stuff" then I am fine with it.

Take em to the bank AJ.

The guy has had back to back 1500 yard seasons for us, he's the best WR in the NFL! If he wants to get paid like it, fine by me.

If I was a player I would not be concerned with honoring a contract when owners are not held to the same standards. They can pretty much cut a player at anytime and only have the salary cap to worry about.

All this time I kept thinking that AJ was a better man than me because if I was the top (1 or 2) player at my position I'd want to be paid like it. Well, I guess he isn't a better man than me and we are basically the same...Good for you AJ...get your money.

I think he has earned it in fact exceeded it. I'm sure they can find a way to not ruin our cap space. Andre Johnson is an elite player.

All of the above. Pay the man. He's earned it and deserves it.

IIRC, AJ restructured his existing contract in order to clear up cap space so the team could sign more talent. He was a hero to everyone back then when he did it, but I guess that goodwill only goes so far.

This is just business, and AJ is not holding out, only not showing up to voluntary workouts.

I have absolutely no doubt that he will be there when it matters.

Wolf
05-17-2010, 05:06 PM
I'm thinking Dorin Dickerson...

:texan:

guess he will have to wait a bit to learn from AJ

HOU-TEX
05-17-2010, 05:10 PM
Some comments from Schefter:

Andre Johnson negotiated his last deal by himself, using an uncle as an advisor. Saved himself three percent and cost himself 100 percent.
about 1 hour ago via web

Not sure exactly how this happened, but over the past 10 days, the Houston Texans have morphed into a huge headline-making machine.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

infantrycak
05-17-2010, 05:12 PM
This is just business, and AJ is not holding out, only not showing up to voluntary workouts.

Exactly. Let's not be improper like with calling hcg a masking agent. There is no hold out until he misses a mandatory activity.

Runner
05-17-2010, 05:14 PM
I said that I overreacted. Can't I be disappointed in the guy's decision-making here? I'd love to hear your theory as to how this no show regarding his contract isn't a selfish and unjustified money grab.

I don't make up theories to protect the Texans and it's players. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency that one statement from one person justifies trashing the player with the most good will in the organization, when in other cases there can never be enough information to draw a negative conclusion.

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 05:14 PM
Business is business. He's in a perfect position to make these demands, coming off of back to back #1 WR in the NFL seasons. Players like him and Revis are welcome to renegotiate when they've shown they are the creme de la creme at their position yet aren't being paid in the top 3-5 players each year.

Except he's not in a "perfect situation to make these demands".

He's got 5 years left on his contract and hasn't even played out half the length of his current contract. HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO LEVERAGE. Houston would be absolutely stupid to tear up that contract during this offseason.

The guy doesn't have a leg to stand on. You simply tell him, Andre we already have a contract with you, so when you are ready to be with your team and play, give us a call.

Dutchrudder
05-17-2010, 05:21 PM
Here's the thing about AJ's contract to me. He signed a 60 mil 15 mil guaranteed, deal over 8 years or whatever. 15 million guaranteed is really low, and if he's trying to up that number without changing the 60 overall, I could understand that. If he's asking for 50 million over the next 5 years, with 25 guaranteed, then I think he's just being greedy asking for a raise to Fitz's salary and getting more base money.

scourge
05-17-2010, 05:21 PM
There's no need to pay him right now. He has absolutely no leverage....he's barely into the contract that he signed and he's not going to sit out the whole season.

Don't pay the man........atleast not this year. Sorry AJ, but you have no leverage here....maybe if you get the Texans into the playoffs we'll talk next year.

I agree that he has no real leverage. But this is yet another headache they just don't need. Because of his image, I am sure many fans will lash out at the Texans in general about being cheap given recent disputes. And without him there is no playoff chance. I think he is worth two #1's, but I wouldn't even think of trading him. He signed a dumb deal before, and isn't paid like the dominant force he is. However, I agree that this is a "his problem" and not a "team" problem. What he should be doing, if anything, is negotiating and if really that necessary in his eyes making it public while still showing up to all training for the time being.

But Uncle Bob has said before to make the playoffs and he'll pay. Well, they can't make the playoffs without him. And they don't need to pay immediately just due to OTA's, but something needs to be done by or during training camp. It's not like he'll be out of shape or anything, but he needs to be with the team working on being in sync and as stated before, working with our secondary.

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 05:22 PM
All of the above. Pay the man. He's earned it and deserves it.

IIRC, AJ restructured his existing contract in order to clear up cap space so the team could sign more talent. He was a hero to everyone back then when he did it, but I guess that goodwill only goes so far.

This is just business, and AJ is not holding out, only not showing up to voluntary workouts.

I have absolutely no doubt that he will be there when it matters.

Its all about precedent, and this sets a bad one.

If we give him a new deal it signifies the following:
1) If you hold out and we need you badly enough, we'll cave
2) If you outplay your contract, regardless of how recently we resigned you, we'll give you more money

Neither of those are conducive to winning a championship. AJ deserves to be paid more. But the NFL is a business, he signed a deal for 8 years 3 years ago. I want him to get paid more because he's my favorite player. But I also realize that this would be a huge slap in the face to OD. And it would prevent us from signing more talent in the future. And it would put us in an awkward situation in the future when lesser talented players make the same demands. Saying no to AJ makes it easier for us in the future. "Dont even try a hold out. We didn't cave for AJ, the best WR in the NFL. We're not caving for you."

Rey
05-17-2010, 05:24 PM
Except he's not in a "perfect situation to make these demands".

He's got 5 years left on his contract and hasn't even played out half the length of his current contract. HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO LEVERAGE. Houston would be absolutely stupid to tear up that contract during this offseason.

The guy doesn't have a leg to stand on. You simply tell him, Andre we already have a contract with you, so when you are ready to be with your team and play, give us a call.

I disagree.

AJ is probably the best player on the entire team. If that ain't leverage, I don't know what is.

scourge
05-17-2010, 05:25 PM
Except he's not in a "perfect situation to make these demands".

He's got 5 years left on his contract and hasn't even played out half the length of his current contract. HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO LEVERAGE. Houston would be absolutely stupid to tear up that contract during this offseason.

The guy doesn't have a leg to stand on. You simply tell him, Andre we already have a contract with you, so when you are ready to be with your team and play, give us a call.

The Texans need him more than he needs the Texans. And its not like he is in desparate need of cash and can't afford to lose some game checks. It was stated back when he re-signed that it was to also help with the cap. They should help him.

badboy
05-17-2010, 05:26 PM
Wow, I am so relieved. I thought there would be little to talk about between now and training camp. Has anyone heard if Duane Brown is going to hold out?

infantrycak
05-17-2010, 05:26 PM
Here's the thing about AJ's contract to me. He signed a 60 mil 15 mil guaranteed, deal over 8 years or whatever. 15 million guaranteed is really low, and if he's trying to up that number without changing the 60 overall, I could understand that. If he's asking for 50 million over the next 5 years, with 25 guaranteed, then I think he's just being greedy asking for a raise to Fitz's salary and getting more base money.

I was wondering if the guaranteed money wasn't a big issue. AJ got $15 on an 8 year deal. Fitz got $30 guaranteed on a four year deal, plus he got a condition that if he is franchised he is owed $23 mil for that season.

I'd like to see this done as an extension/raise. Bring him up to Fitzgerald territory, add two years so he is under contract until 36 and then bump the guaranteed money.

ChampionTexan
05-17-2010, 05:27 PM
Players in sports that get to elite status are extremely competitive. They want to win everywhere, not just off the field. AJ is being paid well (so is everyone else in the league). But he's not being paid in line with his performance compared to other players.



Dear AJ

I can comply with my existing contract better than you can.

Signed,
Larry Fitzgerald

(Problem solved)!

JCTexan
05-17-2010, 05:31 PM
I disagree.

AJ is probably the best player on the entire team. If that ain't leverage, I don't know what is.

Andre has no leverage because he is signed for 5 more years. You have no leverage when you have a long-term contract already signed.

If Houston signs him to another contract it is because they want to keep him happy.

Ckw
05-17-2010, 05:34 PM
We are a fickle bunch.

Most players only get one shot to make the BIG money. This is AJ's, and I can't blame him. To be honest, I thought he was nuts to take the deal that he got a couple of years ago. I truly believe AJ is one of the least egotistical guys in the NFL, and I think that kept him from getting what he was really worth because at the time, I don't think he knew just how much he was worth. Well, now he realizes it and has put up incredible numbers over the past two seasons (as well as for his career) and more and more analysts are calling him the best WR in the game. He simply wants to get paid like it, and this is his one chance to get paid like it.

Pay the man, Rick!

TheRealJoker
05-17-2010, 05:34 PM
Andre has no leverage because he is signed for 5 more years. You have no leverage when you have a long-term contract already signed.

Hard to say these days. If all else fails he can throw a fit like every other disgruntled player in the league until the team trades him or cuts him outright (highly unlikely given what we know about AJ).

Sure it would tarnish his image, but he would achieve his ultimate goal (getting paid).

I hate to say it, but another team's fans can cheer just as well for AJ as we can....

Texecutioner
05-17-2010, 05:34 PM
Don't really know why everyone's freaking out about this right now. This is early and he's just missing VOLUNTARY workouts.

I'd wait a few weeks to see how this thing carries on and what the team's position is and what Johnson's position is right before training camp. Until then, this situation is not one that everyone should be freaking out about and arguing over.

Imatexanfan
05-17-2010, 05:39 PM
Look if you are a any kind of sports fan, then shut up about these athletes wanting more money. It's because we as a country love sports that these athletes are paid so much, and I have no problem with that, and neither should you since you as a fan are contributing to their salary.:slapfight:

gtexan02
05-17-2010, 05:42 PM
Is this you?

shd25 (5/17/2010 at 5:31 PM) Report Violation If you are a die hard sports fan, then shut up about these athletes wanting more money. It's because we as a country love sports that these athletes are paid so much, and I have no problem with that, and neither should you since you as a fan are contributing to their salary.

http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/5195587

NitroGSXR
05-17-2010, 05:42 PM
All of the above. Pay the man. He's earned it and deserves it.

IIRC, AJ restructured his existing contract in order to clear up cap space so the team could sign more talent. He was a hero to everyone back then when he did it, but I guess that goodwill only goes so far.

This is just business, and AJ is not holding out, only not showing up to voluntary workouts.

I have absolutely no doubt that he will be there when it matters.

Sure but don't get too harped on the "voluntary" aspect of it. Nothing is truly voluntary in the NFL. They won't get docked pay but you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't think one would be ruffling feathers by missing camp. Any camp!

One can't deny that Andre's making a statement here. A pretty bold one too. I expect nothing to come out of this this year. Just him putting his foot down and making himself heard. Once the voluntary label comes off and starts to impact his pocketbook... he'll be right back on the field.

Business as usual in the NFL.

Imatexanfan
05-17-2010, 05:45 PM
Is this you?



http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/5195587

Yes sir!! I've been on there all day lol...

hot pickle
05-17-2010, 05:50 PM
pay the man!!!! best WR in the league. pay him like one!!!

b0ng
05-17-2010, 05:51 PM
If AJ were to hold out and not play that would kill our offense. That's leverage. The point about AJ helping the team with his contract 2 years ago are right. He helped the Texans, now the Texans can help him. Kolb got a retarded contract with an 11m dollar bonus frontloaded this year, and I think the Texans could re-work his contract to keep the length and give him some extra dough this year since it is uncapped. Hell, even if they gave him a brand new one it would not upset me in the least.

How many of you would be comfortable seeing AJ in a Titans uniform?

JCTexan
05-17-2010, 05:53 PM
Hard to say these days. If all else fails he can throw a fit like every other disgruntled player in the league until the team trades him or cuts him outright (highly unlikely given what we know about AJ).

Sure it would tarnish his image, but he would achieve his ultimate goal (getting paid).

I hate to say it, but another team's fans can cheer just as well for AJ as we can....

He's worth the #1 money of any WR in the league. I just don't think he has any leverage being in a five year contract.

Imatexanfan
05-17-2010, 05:53 PM
If AJ were to hold out and not play that would kill our offense. That's leverage. The point about AJ helping the team with his contract 2 years ago are right. He helped the Texans, now the Texans can help him. Kolb got a retarded contract with an 11m dollar bonus frontloaded this year, and I think the Texans could re-work his contract to keep the length and give him some extra dough this year since it is uncapped. Hell, even if they gave him a brand new one it would not upset me in the least.

How many of you would be comfortable seeing AJ in a Titans uniform?

Never wanted that ever to happen at all...

Ryan
05-17-2010, 05:56 PM
In a put up or shut up league, he really has put up and probably could use a new deal. That being said though, he really doesn't have any leverage and Rick Smith and co. are probably putting more emphasis right on guys like OD that really haven't even seen one big pay day yet for their production. I think this could wait another year.

I don't know if it's that big of a story until he holds out of training camp or preseason.

Double Barrel
05-17-2010, 05:58 PM
Its all about precedent, and this sets a bad one.

If we give him a new deal it signifies the following:
1) If you hold out and we need you badly enough, we'll cave
2) If you outplay your contract, regardless of how recently we resigned you, we'll give you more money

Neither of those are conducive to winning a championship. AJ deserves to be paid more. But the NFL is a business, he signed a deal for 8 years 3 years ago. I want him to get paid more because he's my favorite player. But I also realize that this would be a huge slap in the face to OD. And it would prevent us from signing more talent in the future. And it would put us in an awkward situation in the future when lesser talented players make the same demands. Saying no to AJ makes it easier for us in the future. "Dont even try a hold out. We didn't cave for AJ, the best WR in the NFL. We're not caving for you."

'eh, I don't know about precedent. And besides, what precedent did AJ establish by being the best WR in football and restructuring a deal on the crappiest team in football to make room under the cap for more talent?

Dude signed his contract after we went 2-14 and 6-10. Think about that. He could have played it out and asked whatever he wanted from whoever he wanted. Can you even begin to imagine how many rings he'd be sporting if he was with the Colts or Patriots?

Sure, AJ has no leverage with regards to forcing the franchise to re-do his contract....but there is the little fact he's the best WR in football, much less the best and most loyal player on this team. Leverage is subjective. He can bring bad publicity just by this story existing. He knows that, and he's not one to showboat or talk crap in the media.

The Houston Texans, Inc. is a billion dollar industry. All this "team loyalty" by customers...errrr....fans is so sad it's funny. BTW, where is the defining line between being a customer and being a fan? I'm always confused about that...

Anyway, it's just business.

Sure but don't get too harped on the "voluntary" aspect of it. Nothing is truly voluntary in the NFL. They won't get docked pay but you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't think one would be ruffling feathers by missing camp. Any camp!

Don't get confused about the VOLUNTARY aspect of it. The word has meaning, and OTA's are truly voluntary, as per the NFL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement.

With regards to "ruffling feathers"; According to all the retired players interviewed about subjects like this, they all side with the player. It is a brotherhood, and they understand there is a business side to it. N.D. Kalu was guest hosting a radio show earlier today and talked about this very subject. He said the only time players even talk about these situations is over a beer after practice, and even then only when it's over-the-top like a T.O. situation.

If he's ruffling the front office's feathers, so freakin' what. They get paid to deal with this crap, so deal with it. I could honestly care less about the front office. They exist to make money off of the careers of players like AJ.

AJ is the 800 pound gorilla on this team that can sit whever the hell he wants.

He won't miss any training camp or mandatory practices. Bank on it.

gary
05-17-2010, 05:59 PM
I am not going to ready all eight pages but I'll just probaby he should get paid like a number one WR. But there is a huge difference between should get paid more and NEEDING more money. He is signed a a deal two seasons ago and he should live up to it. Maybe he has seen the light and sees that he is the best wideout in the NFL and wants number one money but the Texans are not his only source of income by any means. He has large company deals and what not. If he handles his money the right there is not any reason he should need more untill 2014. I am all for sports figures earning the most money offered to them because of their short careers but to me AJ just wants bragging rights to be paid the most money and that does not fly in my book. If you detest your contract that badly then show up like a man do your job and talk about it. You'd probably be much better off anyway. AJ should be at OTA's IMO. All that being said, I am not angry. What can I do? Make him go? Nope. He is not there so his teammates must go on without him. That is all there is for them to do.

JCTexan
05-17-2010, 06:01 PM
If AJ were to hold out and not play that would kill our offense. That's leverage. The point about AJ helping the team with his contract 2 years ago are right. He helped the Texans, now the Texans can help him. Kolb got a retarded contract with an 11m dollar bonus frontloaded this year, and I think the Texans could re-work his contract to keep the length and give him some extra dough this year since it is uncapped. Hell, even if they gave him a brand new one it would not upset me in the least.

How many of you would be comfortable seeing AJ in a Titans uniform?

No, I wouldn't be comfortable with AJ in a Titan jersey. Good thing is AJ is locked up for another five years with Houston. Only way he gets out is if Houston trades him and it's not going to be to the Titans. So I'm not too worried about him being a Titan.

Wolf
05-17-2010, 06:02 PM
The team's policy under Smith has been to only negotiate with players who are participating in team activities. Smith pointed to what star middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans did last offseason when he was unhappy with his contract.

"One of the things that was real smart on his part was the fact that he was upset that we had not been able to come to terms with an agreement, but he came back and was a part of the offseason workout and he was with his teammates, he was a leader and he did things the right way," Smith said. "He played his contract out and he was rewarded."



"You'd like to have all your people out here working, especially when we're trying to go do something we never have done," Smith said. "So the ideal situation is to have everybody working together, but as we talked about last week, you've got to be able to deal with distractions."

Smith said he has spoken to the receiver but wouldn't divulge details about their conversations.

"Obviously we want Andre here," coach Gary Kubiak said. "I know he and Rick are talking, so we'll get it worked out. We're not worried about Andre. He'll do his job."


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/13404384/texans-wr-johnson-skips-practice-wants-new-deal

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 06:03 PM
We are a fickle bunch.

Most players only get one shot to make the BIG money. This is AJ's, and I can't blame him. To be honest, I thought he was nuts to take the deal that he got a couple of years ago. I truly believe AJ is one of the least egotistical guys in the NFL, and I think that kept him from getting what he was really worth because at the time, I don't think he knew just how much he was worth. Well, now he realizes it and has put up incredible numbers over the past two seasons (as well as for his career) and more and more analysts are calling him the best WR in the game. He simply wants to get paid like it, and this is his one chance to get paid like it.

Pay the man, Rick!

How is this AJ's one shot to make big money? He got a huge contract and signing bonus in 2003. Then, they signed him to his current 8 year deal with 2 years remaining on his original deal. So, he has already had 2 huge signing bonuses worth close to $30 million, plus he's made somewhere between $5-$10 million in other bonuses, and he has made multi-millions in salary every year since 2004.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 06:05 PM
I am very sympathetic towards players holding out for a deal when they haven't had a big contract yet. A guy like OD, who was drafted in the 4th round, could get injured and never really cash in on his effort and production. Even a guy like A.Boldin, who was drafted late in the 2nd round, has been a great player but unable to score a deal that represents all he's accomplished. However, AJ was given a monster contract as a rookie and then an enormous extension. So, he's received about $40 million in only signing bonuses, not to mention salary. If he does this, I think I'm going to have to boo him.

obviously, I went overboard here. If he sits out training camp, though... then, you better believe he'll get the Dunta treatment from me.

b0ng
05-17-2010, 06:10 PM
Being under contract means little in this league when you don't perform and when you overperform. I've seen plenty of players crybaby their way out of a city. If AJ decided to play but not perform as he has in previous seasons (think Randy Moss in Oakland) he could easily keep the Texans out of the playoffs and then we'd probably see a regime change. Think he won't get traded? It can happen at any time. Give the man what he wants he's been nothing short of spectacular.

Imatexanfan
05-17-2010, 06:14 PM
Being under contract means little in this league when you don't perform and when you overperform. I've seen plenty of players crybaby their way out of a city. If AJ decided to play but not perform as he has in previous seasons (think Randy Moss in Oakland) he could easily keep the Texans out of the playoffs and then we'd probably see a regime change. Think he won't get traded? It can happen at any time. Give the man what he wants he's been nothing short of spectacular.

Exactly, couldn't say it better...

gary
05-17-2010, 06:22 PM
AJ wants to win maybe he should not worry about his contract so other key players may get paid to help AJ get to where he wants to be like Mario and O.D. JMO.

Txn_in_FL
05-17-2010, 06:25 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

I've been off the board for a couple days, what the hell is happening?!?!?

There's a pain in my chest and I can't breathe...

SheTexan
05-17-2010, 06:40 PM
And I think of all the overtime I worked to pay for season tickets!! I'm the fool here, not AJ. My season tickets cost me over $4000 this year, and I stressed over that. NOW we have a MULTI-millionaire holding out on my team cause he don't think he's making enough money!! The insanity of this falls in my lap, cause I'm one of the thousands who put up with this kind of BS!!

And for all of you who think we can't win a SB without AJ need to stop and think about the NO Saints! They freaking won a SB without ANY player of AJs calibur, except DB, so don't tell me we can't win without AJ, that's BS!!

gary
05-17-2010, 06:46 PM
AJ is worth millions of dollars while others are over here struggling so he should suck it up the bottom line here is you and me are hurting much more than he is.

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 07:01 PM
I disagree.

AJ is probably the best player on the entire team. If that ain't leverage, I don't know what is.

He's the best player on the team that's under contract for another 5 years.....and he ISN'T A QUARTERBACK.

That's called NO LEVERAGE. All you need to do is look at Chad Johnson and the Bengals.


Andre Johnson has no leverage and the Texans would be stupid to give in to him "this year". Talk after next season. You can't just rip up contracts when players haven't even honored half the contract.....it creates a bad precedent that other players will point to.

JB
05-17-2010, 07:21 PM
'eh, I don't know about precedent. And besides, what precedent did AJ establish by being the best WR in football and restructuring a deal on the crappiest team in football to make room under the cap for more talent?

Dude signed his contract after we went 2-14 and 6-10. Think about that. He could have played it out and asked whatever he wanted from whoever he wanted. Can you even begin to imagine how many rings he'd be sporting if he was with the Colts or Patriots?

Sure, AJ has no leverage with regards to forcing the franchise to re-do his contract....but there is the little fact he's the best WR in football, much less the best and most loyal player on this team. Leverage is subjective. He can bring bad publicity just by this story existing. He knows that, and he's not one to showboat or talk crap in the media.

The Houston Texans, Inc. is a billion dollar industry. All this "team loyalty" by customers...errrr....fans is so sad it's funny. BTW, where is the defining line between being a customer and being a fan? I'm always confused about that...

Anyway, it's just business.



Don't get confused about the VOLUNTARY aspect of it. The word has meaning, and OTA's are truly voluntary, as per the NFL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement.

With regards to "ruffling feathers"; According to all the retired players interviewed about subjects like this, they all side with the player. It is a brotherhood, and they understand there is a business side to it. N.D. Kalu was guest hosting a radio show earlier today and talked about this very subject. He said the only time players even talk about these situations is over a beer after practice, and even then only when it's over-the-top like a T.O. situation.

If he's ruffling the front office's feathers, so freakin' what. They get paid to deal with this crap, so deal with it. I could honestly care less about the front office. They exist to make money off of the careers of players like AJ.

AJ is the 800 pound gorilla on this team that can sit whever the hell he wants.

He won't miss any training camp or mandatory practices. Bank on it.



:bravo: Great Post!

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 07:36 PM
NFL network (total access) just hit the nail on the head. Basically said everything I feel about the situation.

Sorry AJ. Love ya and you're my favorite player, but no way the Texans can rip up your contract this year and give you your 3rd contract in 7 years.

And people need to stop talking about how "team friendly" that deal was. The contract was so team friendly because it was FRONT LOADED. Half the contract has already been paid and now that the "team friendly" part of the contract is starting to come into play and his yearly base salary is starting to decrease Andre wants a new contract.......what's so "team friendly" about that?

gary
05-17-2010, 07:40 PM
I want to make it clear I am not saying he should not try to earn more money but just show up and ask later. I am not worried though as far as him holding out though because I have faith he'll be there ready to go in July when he has to I would just like to see him helping out his new teammates as early and as often as possible. That is what bothers me the most about him missing OTA's simply because I know how badly he wants to win it all or so he says.

gary
05-17-2010, 07:43 PM
NFL network (total access) just hit the nail on the head. Basically said everything I feel about the situation.

Sorry AJ. Love ya and your my favorite player, but no way the Texans can rip up your contract this year and give you your 3rd contract in 7 years.

And people need to stop talking about how "team friendly" that deal was. The contract was so team friendly because it was FRONT LOADED. Half the contract has already been paid and now that the "team friendly" part of the contract is starting to come into pay and his yearly base salary is starting to decrease Andre wants a new contract.......what's so "team friendly" about that?At least honnor half of the other deal first.

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 07:45 PM
At least honnor half of the other deal first.

This is what I'm saying....


I wouldn't be upset if they tore up the contract in the future, but to ask them to do it this early is just ridiculous and no way in hell should the Texans do it.

gary
05-17-2010, 07:53 PM
This is what I'm saying....


I wouldn't be upset if they tore up the contract in the future, but to ask them to do it this early is just ridiculous and no way in hell should the Texans do it.That just means other players will think hey, all I have to do is honnor half of my deal and then demand a new one.

PapaL
05-17-2010, 07:54 PM
Let the faction divide...

In the Blue Corner, Pay the Man.

In the Red Corner, Play Man Play.

Let's get it on...

Brisco_County
05-17-2010, 08:01 PM
And people need to stop talking about how "team friendly" that deal was. The contract was so team friendly because it was FRONT LOADED. Half the contract has already been paid and now that the "team friendly" part of the contract is starting to come into play and his yearly base salary is starting to decrease Andre wants a new contract.......what's so "team friendly" about that?

Yep. That says it all.

I love ya AJ, but your interests weren't negotiated skillfully. You hired a family member instead of a professional. You have to expect to lose something if you didn't play your cards right.

It's like the guys on NFL Live just said:

"Who's Larry Fitzgerald's agent?"

"Eugene Parker."

"Call Eugene Parker."

gary
05-17-2010, 08:03 PM
Truth.

silvrhand
05-17-2010, 08:15 PM
This is a shitty subject for me cause I stand to make myself sick over the fact players are making way too much money, and owners are paying them by raising our ticket prices and food costs.

- AJ has a contract, play the )(*)$@ thing out. You signed it, honor it.
- If the NFL goes on strike I'm likely to be done, this is ridiculous.

The average family can no longer afford to go to a game, I'm tired of watching the average American family getting squeeze out for people to get paid way more money than they can possibly spend.

Unfortunately people keep paying them..

TexanSam
05-17-2010, 08:24 PM
AJ is worth millions of dollars while others are over here struggling so he should suck it up the bottom line here is you and me are hurting much more than he is.

I'll probably get flamed for my opinion on players making millions, but I can't blame them for asking for more. NFL owners are billionaires and making ridiculous amounts in profits from our season tickets, PSL, beer, souvenirs, etc. The amount that they pay players is very small compared to what they actually make.

If an NFL players wants more money, I'm fine with it. Pay Andre Johnson what he deserves. He's one of the top 10 players in football.

Speedy
05-17-2010, 08:32 PM
It'd be nice if a contract was actually worth the paper it was printed on. And that goes for both sides.

gary
05-17-2010, 08:34 PM
I'll probably get flamed for my opinion on players making millions, but I can't blame them for asking for more. NFL owners are billionaires and making ridiculous amounts in profits from our season tickets, PSL, beer, souvenirs, etc. The amount that they pay players is very small compared to what they actually make.

If an NFL players wants more money, I'm fine with it. Pay Andre Johnson what he deserves. He's one of the top 10 players in football.They are already paid enough for their needs and then some. Get paid more that is fine but handle things better.

eriadoc
05-17-2010, 08:37 PM
And I think of all the overtime I worked to pay for season tickets!! I'm the fool here, not AJ. My season tickets cost me over $4000 this year, and I stressed over that. NOW we have a MULTI-millionaire holding out on my team cause he don't think he's making enough money!! The insanity of this falls in my lap, cause I'm one of the thousands who put up with this kind of BS!!

:fingergun:

I'm not piling on at all, SheTexan; just using your post as a jumping off point. The finances of the NFL have exceeded ridiculous, but ultimately, it all falls back on the fan. I gave up my PSLs and season tickets after the '08 season for a variety of reasons (Rosencopter, anyone?), but the viability of it was one big reason. I just decided I have better things to do with my money, like setting fire to it rather than giving it to a bunch of millionaires playing for billionaires who don't give two shits about me.

I view movies the same way, to be honest. It's entertainment, and there's a certain price I'll pay, but for the most part, they've exceeded that. I'd love for more people to step back and take a hard look at it and set their own personal limits and see where that takes them.

silvrhand
05-17-2010, 08:37 PM
I'll probably get flamed for my opinion on players making millions, but I can't blame them for asking for more. NFL owners are billionaires and making ridiculous amounts in profits from our season tickets, PSL, beer, souvenirs, etc. The amount that they pay players is very small compared to what they actually make.

If an NFL players wants more money, I'm fine with it. Pay Andre Johnson what he deserves. He's one of the top 10 players in football.

This is one of the reasons that players should not discuss their salaries, it's the same reason that people aren't work don't want to talk about their salaries, cause it'll create jealousy, greed, and issues.

gary
05-17-2010, 08:43 PM
By the time these players are done with the ads, photoshoots, playing, and whatever else they do behind closed doors they really do not give a darn about you or I.

CoastalTexan
05-17-2010, 08:52 PM
By the time these players are done with the ads, photoshoots, playing, and whatever else they do behind closed doors they really do not give a darn about you or I.

So why are we here today?

And at the Stadium on Game Day?

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 08:56 PM
So why are we here today?

And at the Stadium on Game Day?

To support the team, not the individual player. In today's NFL you can't support individual players anymore. They're here one day and gone the next.

Runner
05-17-2010, 10:30 PM
The Houston Texans, Inc. is a billion dollar industry. All this "team loyalty" by customers...errrr....fans is so sad it's funny.

I remember when Jonathan E. became bigger than the corporation. That got ugly.

Runner
05-17-2010, 10:48 PM
The team's policy under Smith has been to only negotiate with players who are participating in team activities. Smith pointed to what star middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans did last offseason when he was unhappy with his contract.

"One of the things that was real smart on his part was the fact that he was upset that we had not been able to come to terms with an agreement, but he came back and was a part of the offseason workout and he was with his teammates, he was a leader and he did things the right way," Smith said. "He played his contract out and he was rewarded."



"You'd like to have all your people out here working, especially when we're trying to go do something we never have done," Smith said. "So the ideal situation is to have everybody working together, but as we talked about last week, you've got to be able to deal with distractions."

Smith said he has spoken to the receiver but wouldn't divulge details about their conversations.

"Obviously we want Andre here," coach Gary Kubiak said. "I know he and Rick are talking, so we'll get it worked out. We're not worried about Andre. He'll do his job."


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/13404384/texans-wr-johnson-skips-practice-wants-new-deal

First bold: I wonder if Smith has a policy for himself to get these situations resolved before it comes to missing team activities. These negotiations didn't start yesterday.

Second bold: Did he also point out what happened to Owen Daniels when he was unhappy with his contract?

Third bold: Of course not! That will be up to unnamed sources.

There will also be the conversational sleight-of-hand that results in the spin management as in the first bolded text.

thunderkyss
05-17-2010, 10:51 PM
I remember a time whent he Texans' fans were wishing for more media attention.


Kinda funny ya know... careful what you wish for kind of thing.

I'm sure there is more to this story, than what we've seen so far. I think it's funny so many have already turned on AJ.

This is Andre Johnson, who has yet to say anything about this, and he's already a P.O.S.

Andre isn't at OTAs... why not? Does anyone really know? I remember there was a time when he didn't do OTAs... or something, choosing to workout at the U instead.

From Rick Smith's comments, it doesn't sound like the Texans are wanting to play hardball.
"He's got five years left on his deal now. We're willing to sit down and talk with him. He knows that."

So how does that fit into all this? I don't know... none of us know.

But we all know sitting out of OTAs in protest of his contract doesn't sound like our Andre Johnson.

awtysst
05-17-2010, 10:56 PM
I would not pay him another dime. He is going into year 3 of an 8 year deal?! I would certainly reward him with a good contract(based on age and other circumstances) if this were year 6 of an 8 year deal.

AJ is seeing the Texans doling out contracts and is getting greedy.
I say let him sit, if thats what he wants.

Lucky
05-17-2010, 10:56 PM
I remember when Jonathan E. became bigger than the corporation. That got ugly.
Today's sports fans will make Rollerball a reality.


Anyway, it's just business.

Working late, I heard about the AJ no show (it's not a holdout people) on the Barry Warner show on the drive home. I knew that there would be a $%@!storm on the forum for this. For no reason at all. I was going to post something to the effect of what DB said. As usual, he just does it better.

But, let me ask the folks here who believe a contract is a contract, and should be honored. Regardless. Where were the venomous protests towards the front office when the Texans released Ahman Green. He still had years on his contract. That's not right.

They did the same thing to Eric Moulds. And Gary Walker. Anthony Weaver. And yes, even to little David Carr. Did David Carr suck, basically quit on the team, and become untradeable? Yes. But, that doesn't mean you can cut a guy with years (and $millions) remaining on his contract. I mean, a contract is a contract. Right?

Wrong. For you and me, a contract is a contract. In the NFL, a contract is a bargaining chip. It's a business that is completely out of touch we the reality we live in. Attempting to relate your ethics in your everyday life to what happens in the NFL is laughable. Yes, I have laughed at some of your posts. Sue me.

Having said all of that, I would bet that AJ would be at the voluntary practice session tomorrow. If the Texans would only guarantee the remaining years on his existing contract. About $30 something million. Just honor the contract, Texans. What's so wrong with that?

Let the rationalizations begin...

awtysst
05-17-2010, 11:01 PM
I'll probably get flamed for my opinion on players making millions, but I can't blame them for asking for more. NFL owners are billionaires and making ridiculous amounts in profits from our season tickets, PSL, beer, souvenirs, etc. The amount that they pay players is very small compared to what they actually make.

If an NFL players wants more money, I'm fine with it. Pay Andre Johnson what he deserves. He's one of the top 10 players in football.

But thats the way it is with any business. The people who have the most to risk, ie the owners make the most money and the workers make substantially less. And quite frankly, thats the way it should be. He who has the most to risk has the opportunity to make the most.

TwoTrill
05-17-2010, 11:06 PM
Today's sports fans will make Rollerball a reality.


Working late, I heard about the AJ no show (it's not a holdout people) on the Barry Warner show on the drive home. I knew that there would be a $%@!storm on the forum for this. For no reason at all. I was going to post something to the effect of what DB said. As usual, he just does it better.

But, let me ask the folks here who believe a contract is a contract, and should be honored. Regardless. Where were the venomous protests towards the front office when the Texans released Ahman Green. He still had years on his contract. That's not right.

They did the same thing to Eric Moulds. And Gary Walker. Anthony Weaver. And yes, even to little David Carr. Did David Carr suck, basically quit on the team, and become untradeable? Yes. But, that doesn't mean you can cut a guy with years (and $millions) remaining on his contract. I mean, a contract is a contract. Right?

Wrong. For you and me, a contract is a contract. In the NFL, a contract is a bargaining chip. It's a business that is completely out of touch we the reality we live in. Attempting to relate your ethics in your everyday life to what happens in the NFL is laughable. Yes, I have laughed at some of your posts. Sue me.

Having said all of that, I would bet that AJ would be at the voluntary practice session tomorrow. If the Texans would only guarantee the remaining years on his existing contract. About $30 something million. Just honor the contract, Texans. What's so wrong with that?

Let the rationalizations begin...

Finally someone speaking with common sense and not blind emotion. If you want to get mad at some one get mad at McNair he is a billionaire him paying Andre aint gonna bankrupt him.Antonio Bryant should never be paid more then Andre, thats like Mark Sanchez being paid more then Manning

awtysst
05-17-2010, 11:07 PM
Today's sports fans will make Rollerball a reality.


Working late, I heard about the AJ no show (it's not a holdout people) on the Barry Warner show on the drive home. I knew that there would be a $%@!storm on the forum for this. For no reason at all. I was going to post something to the effect of what DB said. As usual, he just does it better.

But, let me ask the folks here who believe a contract is a contract, and should be honored. Regardless. Where were the venomous protests towards the front office when the Texans released Ahman Green. He still had years on his contract. That's not right.

They did the same thing to Eric Moulds. And Gary Walker. Anthony Weaver. And yes, even to little David Carr. Did David Carr suck, basically quit on the team, and become untradeable? Yes. But, that doesn't mean you can cut a guy with years (and $millions) remaining on his contract. I mean, a contract is a contract. Right?

Wrong. For you and me, a contract is a contract. In the NFL, a contract is a bargaining chip. It's a business that is completely out of touch we the reality we live in. Attempting to relate your ethics in your everyday life to what happens in the NFL is laughable. Yes, I have laughed at some of your posts. Sue me.

Having said all of that, I would bet that AJ would be at the voluntary practice session tomorrow. If the Texans would only guarantee the remaining years on his existing contract. About $30 something million. Just honor the contract, Texans. What's so wrong with that?

Let the rationalizations begin...
The Texans have no reason to give him any more money. They already signed him to a very lucrative contract with a lot of guaranteed $. AJ has seen Meco get a nice contract and now he wants his. Problem is, AJ does not deserve a new contract.

If we give AJ a new contract it sets up a REALLY bad precedent. Basically it would mean that the team would be willing to renegotiate contracts every 3 years. What is the purpose of locking up a player longterm if they will want a new contract every 3 years?

I get why AJ wants a new contract, but has always been the case to this point, I will side with the Team before I side with an individual player.

awtysst
05-17-2010, 11:09 PM
Finally someone speaking with common sense and not blind emotion. If you want to get mad at some one get mad at McNair he is a billionaire him paying Andre aint gonna bankrupt him.Antonio Bryant should never be paid more then Andre, thats like Mark Sanchez being paid more then Manning

SO what is McNair is a billionaire. That has nothing to do with the situation. There is a salary cap in place. This is not baseball where you can sign all your players to as much as you want. We need to operate under a specific number. Giving too much to one player means you cannot pay another. AJ is a great player but one player is not more important than the team.

Houston_Fanatic
05-17-2010, 11:17 PM
Pay the man, Shirley........

Lucky
05-17-2010, 11:17 PM
If we give AJ a new contract it sets up a REALLY bad precedent.
Did I say give AJ a new contract? I suggested the Texans guarantee the contract already given. Is it a bad precedent to cut players whose contracts have yet to expire? I mean a REALLY bad precedent? What will potential signees think about the Texans if they don't honor existing contracts?

I can play this all night long. Or until I go to bed. I never get tired of watching a dog chase his tail.

Runner
05-17-2010, 11:18 PM
Having said all of that, I would bet that AJ would be at the voluntary practice session tomorrow. If the Texans would only guarantee the remaining years on his existing contract. About $30 something million. Just honor the contract, Texans. What's so wrong with that?


Awesome!

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 11:25 PM
First bold: I wonder if Smith has a policy for himself to get these situations resolved before it comes to missing team activities. These negotiations didn't start yesterday.

Yeah, because Smith should just bend over and take it from every player who wants a new contract. Players don't really start their negotiations until there's something to "hold out" from. That's where they have the most leverage.......when their missing team activities.

Second bold: Did he also point out what happened to Owen Daniels when he was unhappy with his contract?

Umm...what happened with Owen Daniels? We was the best TE in football until he got hurt. It happens, this is football...people get hurt. Andre could step out of his hot tub and fall through his sliding glass door just like Pence tomorrow

Third bold: Of course not! That will be up to unnamed sources.

There will also be the conversational sleight-of-hand that results in the spin management as in the first bolded text.

And....why would we expect anything different...confused????

Rick Smith isn't getting paid to bend over and give in to every single request. He's getting paid to "negotiate contracts" for the betterment of the team....and HE'S DONE THAT.

But yeah, Andre deserves his 3rd contract in 7 years...because that kind of crap happens every day. Especially when you were a #3 ovrl pick and were locked into a longterm deal from the get go.

If Andre is pissed about his contract he needs to talk to his Unc....not Smith. The man has no business pulling out of a 8 year deal after he's only honored 3 years of it and I hope Rick Smith tells him that.

NitroGSXR
05-17-2010, 11:30 PM
By the time these players are done with the ads, photoshoots, playing, and whatever else they do behind closed doors they really do not give a darn about you or I.

I disagree. That's an unfair blanket statement. I believe that the NFL and many of their players are huge philanthropists. They give back. I've personally seen them do random acts of kindness off the field unbeknownst to ANYONE. They give a damn. I know Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans and especially Dunta Robinson give a damn.

Jason Simmons comes to mind...

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 11:33 PM
Did I say give AJ a new contract? I suggested the Texans guarantee the contract already given. Is it a bad precedent to cut players whose contracts have yet to expire? I mean a REALLY bad precedent? What will potential signees think about the Texans if they don't honor existing contracts?

I can play this all night long. Or until I go to bed. I never get tired of watching a dog chase his tail.

So can I....

How about the player who signs a blockbuster deal and then becomes a absolute BUST? Is he required to give back his mega signing bonus? If his contract was "guaranteed" and Andre tears up his knee tomorrow and is a shell of himself is he going to rip up this new contract that he wants? I highly doubt it.

There's a reason why contracts aren't guaranteed (football is a VIOLENT sport so contracts should NEVER be guaranteed) and honestly I don't understand the "contracts aren't guaranteed, so Andre is well within his right to demand a new one" argument when it relates to Andre. He wasn't a rookie and he AGREED to the contract that he is currently under....he wasn't forced to sign it and wasn't forced to sign here like a new draftee/rookie, he could've easily signed elsewhere. He CHOSE to sign it...atleast honor half of the freaking contract that you were happy to sign just a couple of years ago.

There is a repeating occurrence with Andre and his Uncle and it's....sign a long term deal with a big signing bonus and check out early to ink another long term deal with another big bonus. He's asking for his 3rd contract in 7 seasons.....that's ridiculous and I don't care who you are, you could be the freaking pope and that's too much. No way in hell should the Texans rip up a supposed "team friendly" contract and soon as the "team friendly" part of the contract kicks in.

Lucky
05-17-2010, 11:37 PM
There's a reason why contracts aren't guaranteed (football is a VIOLENT sport so contracts should NEVER be guaranteed...
So you're admitting that NFL contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on. The only thing that counts is the $$$ that changes hands. Is so, then what's your beef with a player going back for more $$$? It's a violent sport, and nothing's guaranteed.

dalemurphy
05-17-2010, 11:42 PM
Did I say give AJ a new contract? I suggested the Texans guarantee the contract already given. Is it a bad precedent to cut players whose contracts have yet to expire? I mean a REALLY bad precedent? What will potential signees think about the Texans if they don't honor existing contracts?

I can play this all night long. Or until I go to bed. I never get tired of watching a dog chase his tail.

If he were to be cut today, he would have made about $30 million for his last three seasons. Then, he would have the opportunity to be signed by someone else with that $30 million in his pocket... not to mention the $20 million he earned under his rookie deal before the team voluntarily gave him a new contract with two years left on his rookie deal.

If OD, Bernard Pollard, or Zac Diles chose to holdout I would have no problem with it... In fact, I would be supportive. Those guys have played well and have yet to receive a big payday, while AJ has already had two huge paydays. Not to mention the fact that they are at the backend of their deals while AJ is only 37% through his. AJ is the one that wanted the 8 year extension... It isn't as if he was slotted into a deal like rookies are. It was his choice and he was excited to sign the deal.

thunderkyss
05-17-2010, 11:47 PM
Problem is, AJ does not deserve a new contract.


:spit:

Can we vote on this?

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 11:49 PM
So you're admitting that NFL contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on. The only thing that counts is the $$$ that changes hands. Is so, then what's your beef with a player going back for more $$$? It's a violent sport, and nothing's guaranteed.

Again my beef isn't about players trying to get paid.......it's about players crapping on a contract THAT THEY JUST SIGNED AND CHOSE TO SIGN when they haven't even played half of it out. Andre isn't a rookie and he isn't some player who was signed off the street who outperformed his contract. Andre already got his signing bonus...he got two of them already, and now he wants a 3rd signing bonus in 7 years. HE'S BEEN PAID, that isn't the issue here. The scale balance has more than tipped in his favor....he is in NO position to be griping about another contract (and Rick Smith would be brain dead to give him one. What he needs to do is fire his idiot Uncle.

Lucky
05-17-2010, 11:50 PM
If he were to be cut today, he would have made about $30 million for his last three seasons. Then, he would have the opportunity to be signed by someone else with that $30 million in his pocket... not to mention the $20 million he earned under his rookie deal before the team voluntarily gave him a new contract with two years left on his rookie deal.
You're conveniently leaving off the cap relief AJ gave the Texans with his last re-up. Cap relief and an All Pro WR. Sounds like the Texans got a pretty sweet deal.

Besides, that's not the point. If the Texans released AJ tomorrow, they would not be honoring the contract. Is the problem with AJ not "honoring" his contract (which is doing, BTW)? Or is it something else? Can someone please explain what their beef with Andre Johnson? Why is it OK for the organization to tear up contracts (which I agree with their right to do so), but not OK for players to attempt to renegotiate? Why?

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 11:53 PM
:spit:

Can we vote on this?

Go ahead.......because he doesn't deserve a new contract. How many top 3 picks get 3 contracts in 7 seasons?

Andre Johnson is out of his mind...or his uncle is.

Runner
05-17-2010, 11:53 PM
Yeah, because Smith should just bend over and take it from every player who wants a new contract. Players don't really start their negotiations until there's something to "hold out" from. That's where they have the most leverage.......when their missing team activities.



Umm...what happened with Owen Daniels? We was the best TE in football until he got hurt. It happens, this is football...people get hurt. Andre could step out of his hot tub and fall through his sliding glass door just like Pence tomorrow



And....why would we expect anything different...confused????

Rick Smith is getting paid to bend over and give any to every single request. He's getting paid to "negotiate contracts" for the betterment of the team....and HE'S DONE THAT.

But yeah, Andre deserves his 3rd contract in 7 years...because that kind of crap happens every day. Especially when you were a #3 ovrl pick and were locked into a longterm deal from the get go.

If Andre is pissed about his contract he needs to talk to his Unc....not Smith. The man has no business pulling out of a 8 year deal after he's only honored 3 years of it and I hope Rick Smith tells him that.


I didn't suggest Smith bend over for everybody. I suggested he negotiate with the best receiver in football. The difference isn't very subtle.

Daniels did the same "right thing" has Demeco. He got hurt and hasn't gotten paid. That's why players want money early - and why the team doesn't want to give it to them.

I don't expect anything different from the team, nor do I the player. They are both doing what is in their own self interest - to a point. At some point if becomes self-destructive to one or both.

I'm just pointing out it take the team and the player to make these negotiations successful. I don't see the black and white absolutes some do. I also don't have the anger towards the team some have for the player.

Lucky
05-17-2010, 11:57 PM
Again my beef isn't about players trying to get paid.......it's about players crapping on a contract THAT THEY JUST SIGNED AND CHOSE TO SIGN when they haven't even played half of it out.
So it's OK to ask for a renegotiation? If the player has finished half of the years on a contract? So next offseason, you would have no problems with AJ looking for a new deal?

Yes, AJ has been paid. And he has performed. Now, he wants to get paid, again. Based upon expectations that he will again perform. Should he not get the maximum amount he can possibly earn? It's a violent sport and nothing should be guaranteed.

thunderkyss
05-17-2010, 11:58 PM
There's a reason why contracts aren't guaranteed ...

So is your position now that contracts are not guaranteed?


I'm just trying to keep up. :kitten:

NitroGSXR
05-17-2010, 11:58 PM
Business is war. Everybody wants to be top dog or they'll get squeezed.

Carr Bombed
05-17-2010, 11:59 PM
You're conveniently leaving off the cap relief AJ gave the Texans with his last re-up. Cap relief and an All Pro WR. Sounds like the Texans got a pretty sweet deal.

And people need to stop talking about how "team friendly" that deal was. The contract was so team friendly because it was FRONT LOADED. Half the contract has already been paid and now that the "team friendly" part of the contract is starting to come into play and his yearly base salary is starting to decrease Andre wants a new contract.......what's so "team friendly" about that?

LOL....what "cap relief"


Besides, that's not the point. If the Texans released AJ tomorrow, they would not be honoring the contract. Is the problem with AJ not "honoring" his contract (which is doing, BTW)? Or is it something else? Can someone please explain what their beef with Andre Johnson? Why is it OK for the organization to tear up contracts (which I agree with their right to do so), but not OK for players to attempt to renegotiate? Why?

We already explained this. It's the players right to hold onto a signing bonus when he sucks.(does said player try to offer that back when he flames out of the league or is severely injured?).......we also talked about how Andre is NOT A ROOKIE and was allowed to negotiate this contract. He would've been free to sign with anybody for what every price that he wanted to sign with them...and he did. He chose to sign with Houston for a so called "team friendly deal" that wasn't so friendly to him once the "team friendly" part of the deal kicked in and fans still try to act like it was "team friendly".

b0ng
05-17-2010, 11:59 PM
After looking at AJ's contract numbers and his production after the contract I feel comfortable in saying yes he does deserve more money than what he is slated to get. And no, the "Texans friendly" portion of the contract was the whole damn thing. Not a piece of it.

Carr Bombed
05-18-2010, 12:00 AM
So is your position now that contracts are not guaranteed?


I'm just trying to keep up. :kitten:

If you really want to keep up then you need to go back and read what I typed regarding the situation instead of trying to be cute and taking sentences out of context.. :kitten:

It's not that hard to figure out my argument and what I meant.

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 12:09 AM
After looking at AJ's contract numbers and his production after the contract I feel comfortable in saying yes he does deserve more money than what he is slated to get. And no, the "Texans friendly" portion of the contract was the whole damn thing. Not a piece of it.

The only reason someone signs an eight year deal, is so they can spread that guaranteed money over 8 years.

Is that why you are calling the whole thing "Texans friendly" ?

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 12:18 AM
If you really want to keep up then you need to go back and read what I typed regarding the situation instead of trying to be cute and taking sentences out of context.. :kitten:

It's not that hard to figure out my argument and what I meant.

No, it's kinda hard to follow. Either it's guaranteed, or it's not. You seem to be fine that the team doesn't have to honor their end of the bargain, but AJ has to.. that doesn't make any sense.

I understand the salary cap implications. But that is for Rick Smith to figure out. Guarantee him $80 million on a 20 year contract. Make it all roster bonuses over the next 6 years, who cares?

To me, it's a simple question, is he fairly compensated or not? 3 years ago, we paid him whatever we paid him, relative to the level he was playing at that time, compared to the receiver in the league at that time. He is better now, than he was three years ago. He is better than any other receiver in the game today... that was arguable 3 years ago. It's a fact today.

Carr Bombed
05-18-2010, 12:19 AM
After looking at AJ's contract numbers and his production after the contract I feel comfortable in saying yes he does deserve more money than what he is slated to get. And no, the "Texans friendly" portion of the contract was the whole damn thing. Not a piece of it.

You can't look back on a contract that was inked years ago and act like it wasn't fair the day it was signed...

:rolleyes: If that's what we're going to do....the go ahead and give Andre a 2 year 20 million dollar signing bonus and 47 million contract and then a 30 million dollar signing bonus and 60 million dollar contract the 2 years after that.

and P.S. I hate to break this to Texan fans, but the "team friendly" part of the contract wasn't "spread over the whole damn thing". The guy has already been paid half the amount of the contract and it wasn't until his yearly base salary dipped that he started griping about that contract.

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 12:28 AM
The guy has already been paid half the amount of the contract and it wasn't until his yearly base salary dipped that he started griping about that contract.

Is he griping? I haven't heard any griping.

Carr Bombed
05-18-2010, 12:31 AM
No, it's kinda hard to follow. Either it's guaranteed, or it's not. You seem to be fine that the team doesn't have to honor their end of the bargain, but AJ has to.. that doesn't make any sense.

My god, do you read or not. I never said contracts are "guaranteed" and I never said "Players have to honor their contract" (just atleast the majority of it) I said siding with players that chose to hold out on the simple basis that they aren't guaranteed is a faulting argument (and it is), because players get drafted year in and year out and become the highest paid players at their positions regardless of production.....let alone they get to hold on to 40 million dollar signing bonus regardless of the fact that they suck.

Stop trying to put words into my mouth.....I really don't give a crap that contracts aren't "guaranteed" because players' performances aren't guaranteed either and when was the last time that you saw a player who offered up coin when he didn't produce? Andre Johnson was a free man...a free man who signed a 8 year contract...atleast honor halft of it and not become the 1st top 3 pick who has his 3rd contract in 7 years.

b0ng
05-18-2010, 12:32 AM
The only reason someone signs an eight year deal, is so they can spread that guaranteed money over 8 years.

Is that why you are calling the whole thing "Texans friendly" ?

It's $15m guaranteed spread over 8 years. That's pretty damn friendly for the best player at any position in the league. Also, it's 8 years long, which seems to be pretty friendly

stuff

Give the guy a 3 or 4 year contract similar to Fitz or Marshall, I mean shit, it's not like we signed a bunch of expensive FA's this season and there's just not any money left. Are we afraid AJ is going to go Albert Haynesworth on us? Do we think that he's going to be pissing and moaning about his contract if he's not the best WR in the league?

I mean some people are acting like this guy has no right whatsoever to ask for more money because you know, he signed a contract in good faith to play for the Texans for 8 freaking years. So yeah, since he signed a ridiculously long contract which would benefit the Texans, screw him. That dumbass.

Carr Bombed
05-18-2010, 12:36 AM
Is he griping? I haven't heard any griping.

Oh crap...LOL Like a absence of OTAs isn't enough to signify a grievance. Please cut the political correctness. :rolleyes: NEWSFLASH I'm pretty sure a player that stays home and says he wants more money is "griping" about something. :gun: Oh lord... seriously lol

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 01:38 AM
Oh crap...LOL Like a absence of OTAs isn't enough to signify a grievance. Please cut the political correctness. :rolleyes: NEWSFLASH I'm pretty sure a player that stays home and says he wants more money is "griping" about something. :gun: Oh lord... seriously lol

Andre hasn't said anything yet.
Wide receiver Andre Johnson was absent from the first day of the Texans' organized team activities (OTAs) on Monday, raising questions about the four-time Pro Bowler's contract situation.

A reporter noticed he wasn't there. A reporter recalled Andre's Uncle saying something. A reporter asked Rick Smith a question about Andre's Contract.

I think Rick Smith did a fine job not dodging the question, and not building any unneeded animosity.
"Over the first three years of that (new) deal, I think if you even ask him, he's been well compensated," Texans general manager Rick Smith said. "He's got five years left on his deal now. We're willing to sit down and talk with him. He knows that."

It's speculation by a reporter. They are fishing. Someone said AJ was working on his degree back at the U.

No one said anything about AJ holding out of OTAs because of a contract dispute. What have you ever seen to make you suggest that is the way Andre would handle his business?


Maybe I should say it a different way, a way you can understand.

Baaa... Baaaa. Baaaaaaa.

how's that?

playa465
05-18-2010, 04:55 AM
Andre hasn't said anything yet.


A reporter noticed he wasn't there. A reporter recalled Andre's Uncle saying something. A reporter asked Rick Smith a question about Andre's Contract.

I think Rick Smith did a fine job not dodging the question, and not building any unneeded animosity.


It's speculation by a reporter. They are fishing. Someone said AJ was working on his degree back at the U.

No one said anything about AJ holding out of OTAs because of a contract dispute. What have you ever seen to make you suggest that is the way Andre would handle his business?


Maybe I should say it a different way, a way you can understand.

Baaa... Baaaa. Baaaaaaa.

how's that?

Repped!!!!

dalemurphy
05-18-2010, 06:58 AM
You're conveniently leaving off the cap relief AJ gave the Texans with his last re-up. Cap relief and an All Pro WR. Sounds like the Texans got a pretty sweet deal.

Besides, that's not the point. If the Texans released AJ tomorrow, they would not be honoring the contract. Is the problem with AJ not "honoring" his contract (which is doing, BTW)? Or is it something else? Can someone please explain what their beef with Andre Johnson? Why is it OK for the organization to tear up contracts (which I agree with their right to do so), but not OK for players to attempt to renegotiate? Why?

No, it is about him not honoring his contract. There are times when I am very supportive of a player holding out for a new deal when they are under contract. This isn't one of them, though. He's made over $50 million since 2003. There is absolutely no threat that the Texans would cut him, even if he suffered a season-ending injury. He's scheduled to make at least $6 million each of the next 5 years. It is absolutely ridiculous that he would threaten a holdout under these circumstances. I have no problem with him going to the team and talking to them about a new deal. But, he's behaving like a 3 year old kid on halloween that has had 8 pieces of candy and has a bucket full and is throwing a temper tantrum because his parents won't let him eat the hole bucket in one night.

DerekLee1
05-18-2010, 07:08 AM
MAYBE Andre is taking one for the team. Maybe he and Smith have already quietly worked out a contract renegotiation, he's finishing up his degree at the U, and they fabricated this "holding out" story to distract the media away from Cushing? If so, that's freaking brilliant.

It also just struck me that this is an uncapped year. Why not frontload his contract NOW so a holdout demand in the future doesn't hurt the team? take $3MM from each of his remaining 5 years, pay it out as a bonus THIS year, and he makes $3MM less over the next 5 years, which would also be guaranteed? Salary cap relief, guaranteed contract, and he gets the big chunk up front.

dalemurphy
05-18-2010, 07:17 AM
MAYBE Andre is taking one for the team. Maybe he and Smith have already quietly worked out a contract renegotiation, he's finishing up his degree at the U, and they fabricated this "holding out" story to distract the media away from Cushing? If so, that's freaking brilliant.

It also just struck me that this is an uncapped year. Why not frontload his contract NOW so a holdout demand in the future doesn't hurt the team? take $3MM from each of his remaining 5 years, pay it out as a bonus THIS year, and he makes $3MM less over the next 5 years, which would also be guaranteed? Salary cap relief, guaranteed contract, and he gets the big chunk up front.

Because when you frontload a contract, this is what happens. He made $30 million in three years and now he's pissed be he is only scheduled to make $30 million over the next 5 years. Front loading his deal again would only lead to another holdout!

by the way, the $60 million contract was a good deal because they tore up the last two years on his rookie deal. So, instead of getting about $1.5 -$2.0 million in base salary those last couple years, he received a $15 million signing bonus and about $5 million in salary each of those first two seasons.

Lucky
05-18-2010, 07:27 AM
!
by the way, the $60 million contract was a good deal because they tore up the last two years on his rookie deal. So, instead of getting about $1.5 -$2.0 million in base salary those last couple years, he received a $15 million signing bonus and about $5 million in salary each of those first two seasons.
Try to be accurate in your statements. Details on AJ's 2nd contract (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786880):

Johnson had two seasons remaining on the original contract he signed as the Texans' first-round choice in the 2003 draft, at base scheduled base salaries of $5.25 million for 2007 and $7.75 million for 2008. Those base salaries were reduced, replaced in part by the signing bonus, and the Texans gained much-needed cap room with the maneuver.


It is believed the extension, which essentially created an eight-year deal counting the two season remaining on Johnson's original contract, carved out more than $6 million in new 2007 cap room.


"This is a great thing for us, because Andre is our best player, and he's going to be a Texan for a long time," general manager Rick Smith told the Houston Chronicle. "Not only are we ensured of keeping Andre, but we cleared some room under the cap, so it was a win-win situation."
Vets with back loaded contracts tend to get cut. AJ will be 30+ over the last 4 years of his deal. What happens to 30+ players in this organization? You can't blame Johnson for wanting the $$$ upfront. Besides, the Texans could just guarantee the remaining $30 million, and AJ could make you happy by showing up at voluntary practice (insert Iverson rant here).

kiwitexansfan
05-18-2010, 07:31 AM
Everytime a multi-millionaire player cries about their contract my respect for them fades away.

Come and complain when you have a real problem Andre Johnson.

dalemurphy
05-18-2010, 07:53 AM
Everytime a multi-millionaire player cries about their contract my respect for them fades away.

Come and complain when you have a real problem Andre Johnson.

I'm very supportive of mid or late round picks who reach the 3rd or 4th year of their rookie deals and try to get a new deal. But, it's awfully hard to be sympathetic towards a guy that has over $50 million in his twenties and is unhappy with the fact that he's scheduled to make $6 million this season.

Kaiser Toro
05-18-2010, 08:05 AM
AJ is just acting like a kid. :kitten:

DerekLee1
05-18-2010, 08:12 AM
But, it's awfully hard to be sympathetic towards a guy that has over $50 million in his twenties and is unhappy with the fact that he's scheduled to make $6 million this season.

THIS

...and another ~30MM if he continues to play at a high level another 4 years after.

El Tejano
05-18-2010, 09:24 AM
I'm very supportive of mid or late round picks who reach the 3rd or 4th year of their rookie deals and try to get a new deal. But, it's awfully hard to be sympathetic towards a guy that has over $50 million in his twenties and is unhappy with the fact that he's scheduled to make $6 million this season.

Not hard for me to understand when I see how he pays for children to have a shopping spree at OVER PRICED TOYS R Us with one swipe of his credit card, buys a whole crap load of bikes from Walmart to give to under privledged children.

It's not hard for me to understand when I see that he outplayed his rookie contract to get the extension and now has become one of the top 5 best players in the league which means he's outplayed his extended contract.

If this were a guy that was flapping his jaws all the time, writing Pay Me Rick on his shoes when he's only had one Pro Bowl type season or only caught 3 TD passes in two seasons I would understand. However this is Andre Johnson. The only player on our team that when anyone around the league talks about him they speak as if he's the best player in the league at his position. You can pull out any tape of The Texans since he's been on our team and you would be very hard pressed to find a player that wants to win more than Andre Johnson (Arizona game, the Dolphins game in 2008, Tennessee game in 2009 etc...)

Pay him!

GP
05-18-2010, 09:48 AM
AJ is just acting like a kid. :kitten:

I see what you did there.

He didn't execute properly on his previous contract negotiation, though.

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 10:59 AM
WOW! 13 pages about a bunch of nothing....

I thought the Dez Bryant issue got ridonkulous fast and I helped it get there. This issue used Chris Johnson, Getting away from the Cops speed to reach ridonkulous status....

AJ is not missing any significant time. OTAs are freaking stupid anyway. They should be for 2nd stringers and rookies, not proven Vets, which is why they are voluntary and why players cannot be fined for missing.

He wants equal guaranteed money to that of an elite WR today, and so he is about 17.5 million shy of being there. It is a simple fix the Texans can solve and move on, if they choose to, and still have AJ fulfill his existing contract....:wacko: