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kastofsna
05-18-2010, 10:10 AM
i can't IMAGINE why a guy who's playing in a sport that could end his career before his 30th birthday would want to get as much money out of it as he can.

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 10:13 AM
i can't IMAGINE why a guy who's playing in a sport that could end his career before his 30th birthday would want to get as much money out of it as he can.

I blame the media for this, to be honest. For what the last 3 years now all we have heard from every media outlet paying attention was Andre Johnson is one of if not THE best WR in the NFL. Well it seems this has finally sunk in to AJ and now he wants to get paid like the ELITE WR he is....

Media just created a monster and the Texans are now responsible for taming it....

spurstexanstros
05-18-2010, 10:32 AM
I would have to say I am disappointed in #80. He was a source of pride....we had an elite receiver who didnt open his mouth or go premadonna on us. He has put up with the loosing and coaching changes and now the Texans are on the verge of rising to the top of the league...he goes WR on us. I think he is the best player in the league and he should be paid like it, however he signed a contract and has to honor it, but the Texans can re work it to make him happy..maybe by taking money from the back end and giving it to him now. I am sure there are things in contract that allow for it most contracts give both parties the power to revisit the terms....I hope this is what is going on.

infantrycak
05-18-2010, 10:34 AM
we had an elite receiver who didnt open his mouth or go premadonna on us.

Madonna is much older than AJ.

BigBull17
05-18-2010, 11:06 AM
I'll probably get flamed for my opinion on players making millions, but I can't blame them for asking for more. NFL owners are billionaires and making ridiculous amounts in profits from our season tickets, PSL, beer, souvenirs, etc. The amount that they pay players is very small compared to what they actually make.

If an NFL players wants more money, I'm fine with it. Pay Andre Johnson what he deserves. He's one of the top 10 players in football.

I understand wanting to make more, but damn man, you got a pretty damn big contract. I understood Marshal, since he was making 600k to be the third best in the NFL. I kinda understand OD, who makes very little, but needs to come back strong to earn his cash. But 3 years into a 50 million dollar cotract makes me not to sympathetic.

dalemurphy
05-18-2010, 11:08 AM
Not hard for me to understand when I see how he pays for children to have a shopping spree at OVER PRICED TOYS R Us with one swipe of his credit card, buys a whole crap load of bikes from Walmart to give to under privledged children.

It's not hard for me to understand when I see that he outplayed his rookie contract to get the extension and now has become one of the top 5 best players in the league which means he's outplayed his extended contract.

If this were a guy that was flapping his jaws all the time, writing Pay Me Rick on his shoes when he's only had one Pro Bowl type season or only caught 3 TD passes in two seasons I would understand. However this is Andre Johnson. The only player on our team that when anyone around the league talks about him they speak as if he's the best player in the league at his position. You can pull out any tape of The Texans since he's been on our team and you would be very hard pressed to find a player that wants to win more than Andre Johnson (Arizona game, the Dolphins game in 2008, Tennessee game in 2009 etc...)

Pay him!

You make some very good points.

Still, though, he shouldn't hold out. He could dialogue with the Texans on a new deal without making that kind of move. What's the hurry? He has 5 years left on a good contract. There is no reason to play hardball right now and show a lack of concern for the team's best interest and for making a championship run this year.

El Tejano
05-18-2010, 11:25 AM
You make some very good points.

Still, though, he shouldn't hold out. He could dialogue with the Texans on a new deal without making that kind of move. What's the hurry? He has 5 years left on a good contract. There is no reason to play hardball right now and show a lack of concern for the team's best interest and for making a championship run this year.

And your point is what is telling me what a few other posters have stated. AJ, taking one for the team so that we can clear the Brian Cushing air. AJ in turn gets his deal now. This is just uncharacteristic.

b0ng
05-18-2010, 11:32 AM
Yes, let's make Andre wait until next year. You know, the year that there might not be any football whatsoever. I'm sure Smith would just dive right into some negotiations during a lockout.

Dishman
05-18-2010, 01:08 PM
Madonna is much older than AJ.

Maybe that's why he said premadonna and not primadonna ;)

Dishman
05-18-2010, 01:16 PM
i can't IMAGINE why a guy who's playing in a sport that could end his career before his 30th birthday would want to get as much money out of it as he can.


He stands to make more by his 30th birthday than most of us dream of making in a lifetime. He may be charitable, but I doubt it levies such a burden on him to have to re-negotiate yet another contract.

If the Texans give him a new contract does he not try to re-negotiate again in two years? By that time other WR contracts will have been re-negotiated and increased, so AJ's contract might be an issue yet again. Meanwhile, I can't get a better than 3% raise for busting my ass at my career.

Runner
05-18-2010, 01:21 PM
He stands to make more by his 30th birthday than most of us dream of making in a lifetime.

...

Meanwhile, I can't get a better than 3% raise for busting my ass at my career.

Kudos for the honesty of why you are upset with Andre.

El Tejano
05-18-2010, 01:26 PM
I'm sure the soda vendor guy and everyone else that works for The Texans who are not on the team or front office think the same about not getting a 3% raise too. Then again people aren't paying The Texans money to see them perform.

GuerillaBlack
05-18-2010, 01:28 PM
I'm sure the soda vendor guy and everyone else that works for The Texans who are not on the team or front office think the same about not getting a 3% raise too. Then again people aren't paying The Texans money to see them perform.

??

Like ticket sales, jersey sales, etc.?

badboy
05-18-2010, 01:37 PM
[QUOTE=TexanSam;1435561]I'll probably get flamed for my opinion on players making millions, but I can't blame them for asking for more. NFL owners are billionaires and making ridiculous amounts in profits from our season tickets, PSL, beer, souvenirs, etc. The amount that they pay players is very small compared to what they actually make.

If an NFL players wants more money, I'm fine with it. Pay Andre Johnson what he deserves. He's one of the top 10 players in football.[/QUOTes] Bill Gates is like the 2nd richest in the world and his employees are not. The farmer owns the golden goose. His worker only gets a wage. if you do not like the wage, go elsewhere. No one blames AJ for getting what he could on two contracts. He was paid ahead of time based on past performances that he might not ever see again and "potential" he will be able to do it again. People keep saying the owners do not honor contracts and we know that is B.S. or they would be in court being sued constantly. Just because player signs a six year deal, the contract rarely says he will be on the team all six to get paid. The player and agent knows that. No one forces a player to sign a contract or a fan to purchase tickets or eat over priced food at the stadium. If you want the "experience" of tail gating and sitting in over priced, uncomfortable chairs that are rented to you, quit grumbling. We as fans have a grossly over exaggerated view of our importance in the whole process. End of rant.

Brisco_County
05-18-2010, 01:41 PM
Besides, that's not the point. If the Texans released AJ tomorrow, they would not be honoring the contract. Is the problem with AJ not "honoring" his contract (which is doing, BTW)? Or is it something else? Can someone please explain what their beef with Andre Johnson? Why is it OK for the organization to tear up contracts (which I agree with their right to do so), but not OK for players to attempt to renegotiate? Why?

Because, in this case, Andre's already been paid most of the money after only fulfilling 1/3 of the contract. Restructuring it will double-dip, with no guarantee that he'll be healthy.

It would do both sides a huge service for Andre to get a real agent. No matter who wins, at least the conversation will occur through the language of business, and the resentment born through absent communication will be kept to a minimum.

Runner
05-18-2010, 02:09 PM
It would do both sides a huge service for Andre to get a real agent. No matter who wins, at least the conversation will occur through the language of business, and the resentment born through absent communication will be kept to a minimum.

Hmmmm. Do we know that Andre's uncle doesn't know this "language of business"? Do we know if he's had any training as an agent?

I bet without using the google machine (or any other search, you tricky devils) most people here couldn't even tell me his name,* much less anything substantial about him.


*save posting his name and saying you've always known it. Such statements will be taken with a grain of salt. Having him called "the uncle" for so many posts indicates to me no one has bothered to look it up.

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 02:17 PM
Hmmmm. Do we know that Andre's uncle doesn't know this "language of business"? Do we know if he's had any training as an agent?

I bet without using the google machine (or any other search, you tricky devils) most people here couldn't even tell me his name,* much less anything substantial about him.


*save posting his name and saying you've always known it. Such statements will be taken with a grain of salt. Having him called "the uncle" for so many posts indicates to me no one has bothered to look it up.

could you? And my understanding is Andre's Uncle is not his "agent", he is his advisor. Andre hired a sport attorney to do his rookie contract to avoid the agent commission....

Oh and it's Andre Melton. Anybody who has been paying attention should know that.

Runner
05-18-2010, 02:20 PM
could you? And my understanding is Andre's Uncle is not his agent, he is his advisor. Andre hired a sport attorney to do his rookie contract and this last one if memory serves me right....

Actually I could, but few would believe I knew Dre's Uncle Andre's name already. However, that's not really the point. I'm not making sweeping statements about him.

Runner
05-18-2010, 02:46 PM
could you? And my understanding is Andre's Uncle is not his "agent", he is his advisor. Andre hired a sport attorney to do his rookie contract to avoid the agent commission....

Oh and it's Andre Melton. Anybody who has been paying attention should know that.

This has changed a little bit since I quoted it.

So is it your contention that those commenting about Andre's influence on Dre know enough about him and their relationship to make meaningful statements about him? I didn't think he was that well known.

"Anybody who has been paying attention knew his name"...really? I wish there was a good way to test that. I think a lot of statements are being made based on assumptions, not insight.

Double Barrel
05-18-2010, 02:54 PM
But thats the way it is with any business. The people who have the most to risk, ie the owners make the most money and the workers make substantially less. And quite frankly, thats the way it should be. He who has the most to risk has the opportunity to make the most.

Risk??? With TAXPAYER FINANCED stadiums??? Make them build their own freakin' facilities and operate outside of anti-trust exemptions, and THEN we can talk about all this so-called risk.

It was a risk when the AFL owners started their league in 1960. Not so much today. It's a sound investment opportunity, as evidenced by our very own Robert McNair.

I'm very supportive of mid or late round picks who reach the 3rd or 4th year of their rookie deals and try to get a new deal. But, it's awfully hard to be sympathetic towards a guy that has over $50 million in his twenties and is unhappy with the fact that he's scheduled to make $6 million this season.

And it's awfully hard to be sympathetic to multi-billion dollar entertainment corporations that use political clout to buy influence with local governments to publicly finance their playgrounds.

The next time an owner takes a blindside hit by Ray Lewis, I'll grant them some sympathy. But, until then, they are just businessmen providing entertainment services. However, they are not the entertainment, and they are not hurting for business or revenue.

Like Lucky said, football contracts are not like real life contracts. This is just business, and all the speculation about AJ's character and other things is laughable. You guys are acting like customers now, not fans of his.

I blame the media for this, to be honest. For what the last 3 years now all we have heard from every media outlet paying attention was Andre Johnson is one of if not THE best WR in the NFL. Well it seems this has finally sunk in to AJ and now he wants to get paid like the ELITE WR he is....

Media just created a monster and the Texans are now responsible for taming it....

Riiiiiiight. "The Media" created the best receiver in football, not his on-field accomplishments. That makes a lot of sense....in Bizarro World. :ok:

b0ng
05-18-2010, 02:55 PM
This has changed a little bit since I quoted it.

So is it your contention that those commenting about Andre's influence on Dre know enough about him and their relationship to make meaningful statements about him? I didn't think he was that well known.

"Anybody who has been paying attention knew his name"...really? I wish there was a good way to test that. I think a lot of stements are being made based on assimptions, not insight.

I saw Melton's name mentioned a few times last night when this subject was really getting into gear. But no, I don't think most people would normally know who AJ's uncle was unless they were very interested in the daring and exciting world of contract negotiations.

Runner
05-18-2010, 03:13 PM
I saw Melton's name mentioned a few times last night when this subject was really getting into gear. But no, I don't think most people would normally know who AJ's uncle was unless they were very interested in the daring and exciting world of contract negotiations.

True, it has been bandied about the last day. I guess I should have asked if they would have known his name last week.

I still don't think people have an intimate knowledge of the relationship.

b0ng
05-18-2010, 03:22 PM
True, it has been bandied about the last day. I guess I should have asked if they would have known his name last week.

I still don't think people have an intimate knowledge of the relationship.

Oh it's true, people definitely don't know who he is. I would say that AJ's current contract is probably laughed about in the circles of sports agents. An 8 year deal? What right minded agent would get his guy locked in for 8 years unless it was worth well over $100m (even in 2007)?

The fact that this guy (Andre Melton) negotiated the last contract, and it's pretty terrible for AJ as is, should make Andre get a tried and true agent to get him what he thinks he's worth.

Basically I don't like Andre Melton.

Brisco_County
05-18-2010, 03:30 PM
Hmmmm. Do we know that Andre's uncle doesn't know this "language of business"? Do we know if he's had any training as an agent?

I bet without using the google machine (or any other search, you tricky devils) most people here couldn't even tell me his name,* much less anything substantial about him.


*save posting his name and saying you've always known it. Such statements will be taken with a grain of salt. Having him called "the uncle" for so many posts indicates to me no one has bothered to look it up.

Melton was the key source in an ESPN article about AJ earlier this year. In the article, he spoke as a person of influence in the business relationship.

Analysts on ESPN yesterday referred to Johnson's contract as being negotiated with his uncle, not an agent.

This includes Adam Shefter:

Andre Johnson negotiated his last deal by himself, using an uncle as an advisor. Saved himself three percent and cost himself 100 percent.

I think it's safe to assume that Melton is not a professional agent.

Runner
05-18-2010, 03:40 PM
Oh it's true, people definitely don't know who he is. I would say that AJ's current contract is probably laughed about in the circles of sports agents. An 8 year deal? What right minded agent would get his guy locked in for 8 years unless it was worth well over $100m (even in 2007)?

The fact that this guy (Andre Melton) negotiated the last contract, and it's pretty terrible for AJ as is, should make Andre get a tried and true agent to get him what he thinks he's worth.

Basically I don't like Andre Melton.

That's cool. I see your reasoning, although I don't agree with it.

I don't think Andre ever intended to play out his entire first OR second contract. Further, I think both sides knew that each time they were signed. Now Andre and the Texans are in the process of finishing the scenario.

I think that is just as likely as positing that Andre is surrounded by incompetence.

b0ng
05-18-2010, 03:45 PM
That's cool. I see your reasoning, although I don't agree with it.

I don't think Andre ever intended to play out his entire first OR second contract. Further, I think both sides knew that each time they were signed. Now Andre and the Texans are in the process of finishing the scenario.

I think that is just as likely as positing that Andre is surrounded by incompetence.

It could be. It could also be Andre being upset that he signed a contract to help the team out (Hey, the FO certainly said it helped when he signed it) and in turn they have rewarded him with 1 season above .500. Then their big FA signing the past few years have been Ahman Green, Antonio Smith and. . . Wade Smith I guess? They let his buddy Dunta walk this offseason. He might just really be thinking that he gave the team a discount and they've basically pissed it away.

Hell it could be his uncle whispering in his ear again and him paying attention to it like a doofus. He might have decided it's time to get greedy. Rick Smith banged his girlfriend and now AJ is out for revenge.

Whatever it is, I'm just hoping that it gets resolved in some way before this season starts because next year I'm guessing there won't be any contract negotiations with anybody if there is no CBA.

dc_txtech
05-18-2010, 03:47 PM
Oh it's true, people definitely don't know who he is. I would say that AJ's current contract is probably laughed about in the circles of sports agents. An 8 year deal? What right minded agent would get his guy locked in for 8 years unless it was worth well over $100m (even in 2007)?

The fact that this guy (Andre Melton) negotiated the last contract, and it's pretty terrible for AJ as is, should make Andre get a tried and true agent to get him what he thinks he's worth.

Basically I don't like Andre Melton.

He also made a bonehead move last offseason by saying he had an "exit strategy" to get AJ out of Houston if they didn't make the playoffs.

infantrycak
05-18-2010, 03:52 PM
Andre hired a sport attorney to do his rookie contract to avoid the agent commission....

Andre had a professor from U of M consult on a voluntary basis.

Oh it's true, people definitely don't know who he is. I would say that AJ's current contract is probably laughed about in the circles of sports agents. An 8 year deal? What right minded agent would get his guy locked in for 8 years unless it was worth well over $100m (even in 2007)? .

Try calling up Michael Vick's agent and asking him why he signed a 10 year deal in 2005 or Donovan McNabb's agent to inquire about his 12 year deal in 2002.

b0ng
05-18-2010, 03:56 PM
Andre had a professor from U of M consult on a voluntary basis.



Try calling up Michael Vick's agent and asking him why he signed a 10 year deal in 2005 or Donovan McNabb's agent to inquire about his 12 year deal in 2002.

Wasn't the Vick contract considered a great deal for Vick because it was worth 130 million dollars? I don't remember what McNabb's contract was worth I will look that up right now.

Vick contract (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/53/20CG.html).

EDIT: McNabb's contract was 12 years $115m. Both of those fall in where I said :)

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 04:07 PM
Risk??? With TAXPAYER FINANCED stadiums??? Make them build their own freakin' facilities and operate outside of anti-trust exemptions, and THEN we can talk about all this so-called risk.

It was a risk when the AFL owners started their league in 1960. Not so much today. It's a sound investment opportunity, as evidenced by our very own Robert McNair.



And it's awfully hard to be sympathetic to multi-billion dollar entertainment corporations that use political clout to buy influence with local governments to publicly finance their playgrounds.

The next time an owner takes a blindside hit by Ray Lewis, I'll grant them some sympathy. But, until then, they are just businessmen providing entertainment services. However, they are not the entertainment, and they are not hurting for business or revenue.

Like Lucky said, football contracts are not like real life contracts. This is just business, and all the speculation about AJ's character and other things is laughable. You guys are acting like customers now, not fans of his.



Riiiiiiight. "The Media" created the best receiver in football, not his on-field accomplishments. That makes a lot of sense....in Bizarro World. :ok:

Wow you totally missed all of that didn't you. Never said that AJ's on field accomplishments didn't get him to Elite status but having ESPN, FOX, NFL Network hype you up, and for very good reason, as THE or one of THE elite WR in the game, after hearing that for a while, you start to believe that and want to get paid like that.

We all here in Houston knew how good AJ was, but wasn't until Schaub came in and AJ having 2 spectacular years with someone that could get him the ball that his status soared and the national media started to notice. with Carr, he was just another good WR on a bad team in the media's eyes...

infantrycak
05-18-2010, 04:13 PM
Wow you totally missed all of that didn't you. Never said that AJ's on field accomplishments didn't get him to Elite status but having ESPN, FOX, NFL Network hype you up, and for very good reason, as THE or one of THE elite WR in the game, after hearing that for a while, you start to believe that and want to get paid like that.

We all here in Houston knew how good AJ was, but wasn't until Schaub came in and AJ having 2 spectacular years with someone that could get him the ball that his status soared and the national media started to notice. with Carr, he was just another good WR on a bad team in the media's eyes...

And you think AJ needed to be told he was great to believe it?

Double Barrel
05-18-2010, 04:25 PM
Wow you totally missed all of that didn't you. Never said that AJ's on field accomplishments didn't get him to Elite status but having ESPN, FOX, NFL Network hype you up, and for very good reason, as THE or one of THE elite WR in the game, after hearing that for a while, you start to believe that and want to get paid like that.

We all here in Houston knew how good AJ was, but wasn't until Schaub came in and AJ having 2 spectacular years with someone that could get him the ball that his status soared and the national media started to notice. with Carr, he was just another good WR on a bad team in the media's eyes...

well, there was a bit of silly sarcasm in my reply, but I don't think AJ needs the media telling him what he already knows to be true. So no, I didn't miss all of that, but I just disagree that the media has anything to do with it.

His three hundred+ catch seasons out of four and two back-to-back 1500+ yard seasons, not to mention his 3 × NFL Alumni Wide Receiver Of The Year (2006, 2008, 2009), 4× Pro Bowl selection (2004, 2006, 2008, 2009), 2× First-team All-Pro selection (2008, 2009), 1× Second-team All-Pro selection (2006)....yeah, he might have had a clue about his status, especially on a team that has just experienced it's first winning season in franchise history.

I'm sure Matt Schaub has probably given him some love, as well. ;)

DerekLee1
05-18-2010, 05:00 PM
What bothers me the most is that my respect for AJ as a person has been knocked back a few pegs. He always seemed to be the type that would never let money drive him. That his actions on the field would earn him the pay that he deserved without being a whiner. And yes, holding out is a form of whining.

Love for the game before love of money. I guess it's just a thing of the past now. AJ seemed the old-fashioned type, but a move like this really says a lot. If you think you deserve more money, or are getting screwed because of your existing contract (that you not only signed, BUT NEGOTIATED YOURSELF!!), then do it quietly behind the scenes.

I'll still cheer for him, but my opinion of him personally may be irreversibly altered.

Ole Miss Texan
05-18-2010, 05:05 PM
What bothers me the most is that my respect for AJ as a person has been knocked back a few pegs. He always seemed to be the type that would never let money drive him. That his actions on the field would earn him the pay that he deserved without being a whiner. And yes, holding out is a form of whining.

Love for the game before love of money. I guess it's just a thing of the past now. AJ seemed the old-fashioned type, but a move like this really says a lot. If you think you deserve more money, or are getting screwed because of your existing contract (that you not only signed, BUT NEGOTIATED YOURSELF!!), then do it quietly behind the scenes.

I'll still cheer for him, but my opinion of him personally may be irreversibly altered.

I really wouldn't want people to start losing respect for Andre Johnson for missing OTA's. If he starts holding out of mandatory team functions... then we should be a little worried. This is early, AJ isn't vocal about this, and I think we're all making a bigger deal out of this than what it really is.

gary
05-18-2010, 05:05 PM
How about coming to work and talking things over with Smith and Bob? That is what I'd like to see him do. Ryans big payday came and went. Ryans was not very outspoken about but he did indeed get it. I just wish he would have asked for all he wanted two years ago. Maybe his agent messed up at the time but that is their own fault. Anyway, there are others who have to be paid besides AJ. At least they should have their day too. I understand there might be a lock out next season and AJ wanting to earn number one type money if shows up and do what he does best then he may have a new deal in place by the middle or end of the seaon. Is that too hard? You tell me. Not everyone makes it into the NFL some should be happy they even had the chance to sign a contract IMO. Nitro, by the way if I had millions of bucks and a big name I'd be out there doing stuff because I care about you. Not all but most sports figures are active for the simple fact it is a nice tax write off and also makes them look good. For their foundations some make more money, awards, write offs, and extras not even the public knows about. Do you all know Jerry Lewis gives just ten percent of the money he raises to MD research and basically keeps all of the rest for his pocket? Mom used to work for him and she was shoced when she found out where most of the funds end up. I am not trying to derail this thread or anything but I just want to show what I ment in my last post. These famous figures do gain quite nicely from their outside projects.

Ole Miss Texan
05-18-2010, 05:10 PM
How about coming to work and talking things over with Smith and Bob? That is what I'd like to see him do. Ryans big payday came and went. Ryans was not very outspoken about but he did indeed get it. I just wish he would have asked for all he wanted two years ago.

Who's to say he hasn't gone to Reliant and talked things over with Smith?

As far as I know, AJ hasn't made a public statement (other than missing voluntary OTAs) about his contract situation. The only reason this is talked about is because the media noticed he wasn't present on Monday. AJ isn't any more outspoken over this than Demeco was last year.

infantrycak
05-18-2010, 05:13 PM
He always seemed to be the type that would never let money drive him.

As if a ton of those folks exist in the world. Seriously you are talking about one of the highest paid jobs around and you don't think they care about money. Oh and those few that don't care are called beach bums.

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 05:13 PM
well, there was a bit of silly sarcasm in my reply, but I don't think AJ needs the media telling him what he already knows to be true. So no, I didn't miss all of that, but I just disagree that the media has anything to do with it.

His three hundred+ catch seasons out of four and two back-to-back 1500+ yard seasons, not to mention his 3 × NFL Alumni Wide Receiver Of The Year (2006, 2008, 2009), 4× Pro Bowl selection (2004, 2006, 2008, 2009), 2× First-team All-Pro selection (2008, 2009), 1× Second-team All-Pro selection (2006)....yeah, he might have had a clue about his status, especially on a team that has just experienced it's first winning season in franchise history.

I'm sure Matt Schaub has probably given him some love, as well. ;)

you just proved my point, all of this was done in the last few years. When did the media really start to pay attention to AJ and start to compare him and Fitzgerald and hyping him up to be THE elite WR? Possibly around the same time as all these awards and accolades?

I'll backtrack and say the media wasn't a direct result, but they did have their hand in it.

BullNation4Life
05-18-2010, 05:16 PM
Who's to say he hasn't gone to Reliant and talked things over with Smith?

As far as I know, AJ hasn't made a public statement (other than missing voluntary OTAs) about his contract situation. The only reason this is talked about is because the media noticed he wasn't present on Monday. AJ isn't any more outspoken over this than Demeco was last year.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if he comes back to say he took an extra day to visit a relative or had some sort of function and this whole flipping thing was blown way out of proportion?

gary
05-18-2010, 05:20 PM
Who's to say he hasn't gone to Reliant and talked things over with Smith?

As far as I know, AJ hasn't made a public statement (other than missing voluntary OTAs) about his contract situation. The only reason this is talked about is because the media noticed he wasn't present on Monday. AJ isn't any more outspoken over this than Demeco was last year.I don't know what AJ has or has not done. I am just saying it is what he should do. From what I remember Demeco handled things pretty well and I hope AJ does the same.

DerekLee1
05-18-2010, 05:21 PM
As if a ton of those folks exist in the world. Seriously you are talking about one of the highest paid jobs around and you don't think they care about money. Oh and those few that don't care are called beach bums.

Good players are going to get paid. And Andre Johnson IS one of the highest paid at his position. It's not like he's getting paid the league minimum. It's one thing to be a free agent and leave for more money, or make a big money demand to stay. But to get JUST PAST the balloon front-loaded portion of an 8-year deal, then hold out for more is just greed, plain and simple.

I won't pass judgment until it's confirmed exactly what it is that he wants. But not showing up for OTA's - mandatory or not - just leaves a bad stench.

JB
05-18-2010, 05:22 PM
As if a ton of those folks exist in the world. Seriously you are talking about one of the highest paid jobs around and you don't think they care about money. Oh and those few that don't care are called beach bums.

:foottap: Hey! It's hard work being a beach bum these days...:bat:





Ain't that right Bill?

infantrycak
05-18-2010, 05:40 PM
Good players are going to get paid. And Andre Johnson IS one of the highest paid at his position. It's not like he's getting paid the league minimum. It's one thing to be a free agent and leave for more money, or make a big money demand to stay. But to get JUST PAST the balloon front-loaded portion of an 8-year deal, then hold out for more is just greed, plain and simple.

I won't pass judgment until it's confirmed exactly what it is that he wants. But not showing up for OTA's - mandatory or not - just leaves a bad stench.

Step outside of being a football fan for a moment and think about this. Sure you are doing well, worth $50 mil, fantastically well. But you have an opportunity to make another $20 mil. How many more relatives does that benefit, how many more generations of your family does that assist, etc.? AJ clearly has all the money he needs and then some but given the chance to pass on an extra $20 mil to my family, yeah I'm playing the angles. And I wish people would notice he is doing this in as classy a way as this system permits. Nobody heard a whisper of this until day 1 and he still isn't talking. No chest thumping (off the field), no driveway antics, no Jim Rome interviews. He is just trying to discuss the issue with the team - a team that says they will discuss the issue with him.

I truly don't understand why folks get worked up about this. Under normal conditions the NFL has a cap. A new contract wouldn't mean increased tickets, etc. - the cap is the same no matter how it is distributed among the players. And yeah, yeah we pay the players. Game day money doesn't cover the players much less all the other expenses. This system is supported by the networks.

JB
05-18-2010, 06:04 PM
Step outside of being a football fan for a moment and think about this. Sure you are doing well, worth $50 mil, fantastically well. But you have an opportunity to make another $20 mil. How many more relatives does that benefit, how many more generations of your family does that assist, etc.? AJ clearly has all the money he needs and then some but given the chance to pass on an extra $20 mil to my family, yeah I'm playing the angles. And I wish people would notice he is doing this in as classy a way as this system permits. Nobody heard a whisper of this until day 1 and he still isn't talking. No chest thumping (off the field), no driveway antics, no Jim Rome interviews. He is just trying to discuss the issue with the team - a team that says they will discuss the issue with him.

I truly don't understand why folks get worked up about this. Under normal conditions the NFL has a cap. A new contract wouldn't mean increased tickets, etc. - the cap is the same no matter how it is distributed among the players. And yeah, yeah we pay the players. Game day money doesn't cover the players much less all the other expenses. This system is supported by the networks.

Very well said! And no one mentions that he was at all the previous workouts, unless he was in school. And I read a somewhere from Jacoby Jones yesterday where he replied to the question about AJ with something like since JJ already had his degree, AJ had to follow suit. And I know the Texans are big on their players getting their degrees. Perhaps AJ was told if he gets his degree they will talk news deal. Just speculation, but then so is everything else here.

Wolf
05-18-2010, 06:06 PM
Tom Brady didn't go either , I heard

:peek:

gary
05-18-2010, 06:20 PM
I respect him for not going public about his feelings but also hope he plays his cards right. Make this a personal matter between him and the F.O. without going to the press and possibly hurt his teammates in the process. Keep this all behind closed doors where it belongs.

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 07:17 PM
What bothers me the most is that my respect for AJ as a person has been knocked back a few pegs. He always seemed to be the type that would never let money drive him.

Yet some media hack says Andre is holding out because of a contract dispute, and he is a p.o.s.

Smith did not confirm this was over his contract. he said (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7008821.html),
“I’m not real worried because we re-did him with two years left on his original deal, and that was three years ago,” general manager Rick Smith said Monday. “Over the first three years of that deal, I think if you even ask him, he’s been well-compensated.”

Johnson, who has 216 catches for 3,144 yards and 17 touchdowns the past two seasons, has earned almost $26 million on the new deal.

“He’s got five years left on his deal now (and) we’re willing to sit down and talk with him, and he knows that,” Smith said.

So why would he be holding out, if he knows they are open to negotiations?

JB
05-18-2010, 07:22 PM
Yet some media hack says Andre is holding out because of a contract dispute, and he is a p.o.s.

Smith did not confirm this was over his contract. he said (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7008821.html),


So why would he be holding out, if he knows they are open to negotiations?

He is not holding out

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 07:54 PM
He is not holding out

Is that a question, or a statement?

For all I know, The Texans haven't said that Andre is missing because of a contract dispute, and Andre hasn't said Andre is missing because of a contract dispute.

The Question, "Why isn't Andre here?" hasn't been asked of anyone who would know.

Reporters believe that may be the reason, they started asking questions about his contract... and started the debate, "Should Andre be asking for more money?"

infantrycak
05-18-2010, 07:59 PM
Is that a question, or a statement?

For all I know, The Texans haven't said that Andre is missing because of a contract dispute, and Andre hasn't said Andre is missing because of a contract dispute.

The Question, "Why isn't Andre here?" hasn't been asked of anyone who would know.

Yes it has. The video from yesterday of Smith has a question asking if it is contract related and he says yeah, we're not real worried about that.

This quote is at the beginning of the day 2 reporting:

Wide receiver Andre Johnson was once again not with the team after missing Monday's practice because of contract issues.

The Texans have acknowledged it's contract related.

What JB means about it not being a hold out is you by definition can't hold out from a voluntary activity. We'll find out if he intends to hold out once a mandatory activity comes about.

Texan_Bill
05-18-2010, 08:01 PM
:foottap: Hey! It's hard work being a beach bum these days...:bat:





Ain't that right Bill?

No (bleep)....

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 08:46 PM
Yes it has. The video from yesterday of Smith has a question asking if it is contract related and he says yeah, we're not real worried about that.

This quote is at the beginning of the day 2 reporting:



The Texans have acknowledged it's contract related.


Is this the report (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6167) you're talking about?

Now, that makes it official.

So, I wonder what the deal is if Rick Smith said they are willing to negotiate.

This just doesn't sound right.

drs23
05-18-2010, 10:56 PM
Is this the report (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6167) you're talking about? ...So, I wonder what the deal is if Rick Smith said they are willing to negotiate.
This just doesn't sound right.

Rick Smith said "we're willing to[B]talk[B] and he knows that". I didn't hear the reneg...word.

leebigeztx
05-19-2010, 08:07 AM
AJ needs to get an agent. The deal he signed back then wasn't market value. Teams have been giving almost 50% in guaranteed jack for a while now and he only got 25% back then. He did a poor deal and negotiating vs a team minus an agent isn't the best thing. Now if he had put an out clause in there, thats different.

BullNation4Life
05-19-2010, 08:35 AM
And you think AJ needed to be told he was great to believe it?

No, just that he started to notice he wasn't being paid like elite player he has become and the media has glossed him. He, we, I already knew he was great. IMO having the media call you one of if not THE elite player at your position along with an uncle who probably goes back and let's Dre know, "Hey ESPN and NFL Network are saying you are better than Fitzgerald and look at what he got"

Guess media or not, this was bound to happen sooner or later. I just feel the media help thrust it into sooner....

Ole Miss Texan
05-19-2010, 09:15 AM
AJ needs to get an agent. The deal he signed back then wasn't market value. Teams have been giving almost 50% in guaranteed jack for a while now and he only got 25% back then. He did a poor deal and negotiating vs a team minus an agent isn't the best thing. Now if he had put an out clause in there, thats different.

I agree to your overall point but it's not like the Texans royally screwed him. Although the guaranteed portion seems low by today's standards, his average pay per year for 8 years was basically the Franchise Tag's $ figure for WRs at that time.

infantrycak
05-19-2010, 09:32 AM
I agree to your overall point but it's not like the Texans royally screwed him. Although the guaranteed portion seems low by today's standards, his average pay per year for 8 years was basically the Franchise Tag's $ figure for WRs at that time.

Exactly. I believe at the time it was stated he was becoming the highest paid WR. It's the nature of the business that in subsequent years as the cap goes up someone else will get a bigger contract. For example, everyone who was used to calculate the franchise tag number for 2010 at WR got their contracts after AJ.

AJ needs to get an agent. The deal he signed back then wasn't market value. Teams have been giving almost 50% in guaranteed jack for a while now and he only got 25% back then. He did a poor deal and negotiating vs a team minus an agent isn't the best thing. Now if he had put an out clause in there, thats different.

The huge guaranteed money came the next year with Fitz' contract. For example Steve Smith signed his 6 year $48 mil contract a couple months after AJ and got a $9.3 mil signing bonus.

Ole Miss Texan
05-19-2010, 09:42 AM
Exactly. I believe at the time it was stated he was becoming the highest paid WR. It's the nature of the business that in subsequent years as the cap goes up someone else will get a bigger contract. For example, everyone who was used to calculate the franchise tag number for 2010 at WR got their contracts after AJ.

The huge guaranteed money came the next year with Fitz' contract. For example Steve Smith signed his 6 year $48 mil contract a couple months after AJ and got a $9.3 mil signing bonus.

Fitz's deal is insane. 4 years / $40 Million with $30 Million guaranteed!

Double Barrel
05-19-2010, 12:00 PM
you just proved my point, all of this was done in the last few years. When did the media really start to pay attention to AJ and start to compare him and Fitzgerald and hyping him up to be THE elite WR? Possibly around the same time as all these awards and accolades?

I'll backtrack and say the media wasn't a direct result, but they did have their hand in it.

The following was accomplished by AJ before restructuring his contract:

100+ catch season (2006)
NFL Alumni Wide Receiver Of The Year (2006)
2 × Pro Bowl selection (2004, 2006)
Second-team All-Pro selection (2006)

And "The Media" was already talking about how badass he was back then...

Tennessee coach Jeff Fisher said Johnson ranks with the league's best receivers...

12/14/2006 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/sports&id=4851659)

Ole Miss Texan
05-19-2010, 12:19 PM
The following was accomplished by AJ before restructuring his contract:

100+ catch season (2006)
NFL Alumni Wide Receiver Of The Year (2006)
2 × Pro Bowl selection (2004, 2006)
Second-team All-Pro selection (2006)

And "The Media" was already talking about how badass he was back then...

This is true which is even more impressive considering he averaged a tad over 4 TDs per season those first 4 years.

hookinreds
05-19-2010, 12:37 PM
I have no problem with AJ wanting the Texans to look at his contract, and I have no problem with the Texans taking a step back to look at it and comeback with a nice raise, even if it makes him the top paid WR. Will this open up for the same type of issue down the road...sure it does, just like it did when Dunta was bitching about his contract. You make the numbers, we take care of you, if your an average player and *****, hit the road. Save the "well if we pay him that lowers out ability to pay some other player"...if we don't have him on our side, it doesn't matter who the hell we are paying. The term contract in itself means absolutely nothing in the NFL in regard holding a player/team to the t's and c's. I stopped caring if someone wanted to renegotiate their contract before completion a long time ago.

Honestly, I'd make sure AJ was the highest paid WR in the league every year that he's the top rated receiver. At least he earns it on the field and off. If ever there was a player that earns his paycheck its AJ.

badboy
05-19-2010, 12:41 PM
McNair's response, "Hey AJ just wanted to say I noticed your reduction in time spent in the voluntary OTAs. I have instructed Coach Kubiak to reduce the passes going to you this season and that is a voluntary decision on my part. When I signed the last two contracts neither you or I knew what you would accomplish but we both agreed on the deal. Signed our names like men do. I would have paid you even if you played half as well. You may not have noticed, but we drafted this kid Tate who should solve our running back problems and Stevie Slaton seems to be back to rookie form. Adrian Foster will probably be our ground pounder and you know how Kubes is about that old running game. I expect to see about 60% of our plays to be rushes and then we have some tight ends and Jacoby probably will get a few more touches also. Slaton in the slot or end arounds, make me chuckle just thinking about it.

So here's the deal, since you will have quite a few less receptions, I want you to reduce your annual salary accordingly. In the long run this will lengthen your career and when you do get the ball late in a game, you should be fresh. BTW, say Hey to your uncle. I just love that guy! See you in training camp."

hookinreds
05-19-2010, 12:45 PM
McNair's response, "Hey AJ just wanted to say I noticed your reduction in time spent in the voluntary OTAs. I have instructed Coach Kubiak to reduce the passes going to you this season and that is a voluntary decision on my part. When I signed the last two contracts neither you or I knew what you would accomplish but we both agreed on the deal. Signed our names like men do. I would have paid you even if you played half as well. You may not have noticed, but we drafted this kid Tate who should solve our running back problems and Stevie Slaton seems to be back to rookie form. Adrian Foster will probably be our ground pounder and you know how Kubes is about that old running game. I expect to see about 60% of our plays to be rushes and then we have some tight ends and Jacoby probably will get a few more touches also. Slaton in the slot or end arounds, make me chuckle just thinking about it.

So here's the deal, since you will have quite a few less receptions, I want you to reduce your annual salary accordingly. In the long run this will lengthen your career and when you do get the ball late in a game, you should be fresh. BTW, say Hey to your uncle. I just love that guy! See you in training camp."

Yea, Bob...that will work. I'll report back to you on how well your running game isn't working when the other team stacks 11 guys in the box. I'll be over here on the bench eating my bon bons wondering when I'll ever get the ball...oh and you'll still be paying me that contract we signed a while back.

El Tejano
05-19-2010, 01:16 PM
McNair's response, "Hey AJ just wanted to say I noticed your reduction in time spent in the voluntary OTAs. I have instructed Coach Kubiak to reduce the passes going to you this season and that is a voluntary decision on my part. When I signed the last two contracts neither you or I knew what you would accomplish but we both agreed on the deal. Signed our names like men do. I would have paid you even if you played half as well. You may not have noticed, but we drafted this kid Tate who should solve our running back problems and Stevie Slaton seems to be back to rookie form. Adrian Foster will probably be our ground pounder and you know how Kubes is about that old running game. I expect to see about 60% of our plays to be rushes and then we have some tight ends and Jacoby probably will get a few more touches also. Slaton in the slot or end arounds, make me chuckle just thinking about it.

So here's the deal, since you will have quite a few less receptions, I want you to reduce your annual salary accordingly. In the long run this will lengthen your career and when you do get the ball late in a game, you should be fresh. BTW, say Hey to your uncle. I just love that guy! See you in training camp."

Bob, have you ever seen Rod Smith's numbers in this offense even when they had Terrell Davis? I don't see any Terrell Davis' on this team and I know I can do better than Rod Smith. Just take your calculator and pen out and pay me!

Rey
05-19-2010, 01:21 PM
McNair's response, "Hey AJ just wanted to say I noticed your reduction in time spent in the voluntary OTAs. I have instructed Coach Kubiak to reduce the passes going to you this season and that is a voluntary decision on my part. When I signed the last two contracts neither you or I knew what you would accomplish but we both agreed on the deal. Signed our names like men do. I would have paid you even if you played half as well. You may not have noticed, but we drafted this kid Tate who should solve our running back problems and Stevie Slaton seems to be back to rookie form. Adrian Foster will probably be our ground pounder and you know how Kubes is about that old running game. I expect to see about 60% of our plays to be rushes and then we have some tight ends and Jacoby probably will get a few more touches also. Slaton in the slot or end arounds, make me chuckle just thinking about it.

So here's the deal, since you will have quite a few less receptions, I want you to reduce your annual salary accordingly. In the long run this will lengthen your career and when you do get the ball late in a game, you should be fresh. BTW, say Hey to your uncle. I just love that guy! See you in training camp."

Bob, one way you can guarantee that defenses will gear up to stop the run is to take me out of the game.

Pay me.

Double Barrel
05-19-2010, 01:43 PM
McNair's response, "Hey AJ just wanted to say I noticed your reduction in time spent in the voluntary OTAs. I have instructed Coach Kubiak to reduce the passes going to you this season and that is a voluntary decision on my part. When I signed the last two contracts neither you or I knew what you would accomplish but we both agreed on the deal. Signed our names like men do. I would have paid you even if you played half as well. You may not have noticed, but we drafted this kid Tate who should solve our running back problems and Stevie Slaton seems to be back to rookie form. Adrian Foster will probably be our ground pounder and you know how Kubes is about that old running game. I expect to see about 60% of our plays to be rushes and then we have some tight ends and Jacoby probably will get a few more touches also. Slaton in the slot or end arounds, make me chuckle just thinking about it.

So here's the deal, since you will have quite a few less receptions, I want you to reduce your annual salary accordingly. In the long run this will lengthen your career and when you do get the ball late in a game, you should be fresh. BTW, say Hey to your uncle. I just love that guy! See you in training camp."

"Hey Bob,
Congrats on yet another year that your franchise failed to make the playoffs. What is it now, like, 9 in a row?
Sincerely,
Texans customers...errrr...fans"

BigBull17
05-19-2010, 01:50 PM
McNair's response, "Hey AJ just wanted to say I noticed your reduction in time spent in the voluntary OTAs. I have instructed Coach Kubiak to reduce the passes going to you this season and that is a voluntary decision on my part. When I signed the last two contracts neither you or I knew what you would accomplish but we both agreed on the deal. Signed our names like men do. I would have paid you even if you played half as well. You may not have noticed, but we drafted this kid Tate who should solve our running back problems and Stevie Slaton seems to be back to rookie form. Adrian Foster will probably be our ground pounder and you know how Kubes is about that old running game. I expect to see about 60% of our plays to be rushes and then we have some tight ends and Jacoby probably will get a few more touches also. Slaton in the slot or end arounds, make me chuckle just thinking about it.

So here's the deal, since you will have quite a few less receptions, I want you to reduce your annual salary accordingly. In the long run this will lengthen your career and when you do get the ball late in a game, you should be fresh. BTW, say Hey to your uncle. I just love that guy! See you in training camp."

This 100% better not happen. I would be a very unhappy bigbull.

HOU-TEX
05-19-2010, 02:20 PM
"Hey Bob,
Congrats on yet another year that your franchise failed to make the playoffs. What is it now, like, 9 in a row?
Sincerely,
Texans customers...errrr...fans"

HOU-TEX: Bob, after 8 painful years, the "he brought football back to Houston" is beginning to wear off.

Bob: Well, HOU-TEX, trust me when I say we are doing everything we can to bring a championship to Houston.

HOU-TEX: Well Bob, I lie awake at night after games we should've won wondering why the hell I keep rooting for this damn team.

Bob: Really? Might I recommend the sleep apnea surgery? We are suggesting it to all our players. They've lost a few pounds, but they can sleep better at night.

HOU-TEX: Do you sleep well at night, Bob?! Knowing you're raising ticket prices year after year for an 8-8...errrr....9-7 team?

Bob: Yes, HOU-TEX, I sleep very well at night. Thank you for asking.

HOU-TEX: You better relax, Bob.

Bob: There is no way that we could have been as bad at business as we are at Football.

HOU-TEX: All right, I'm coming down to Reliant, let's go!

HOU-TEX: [after punching Bob McNair to the ground] You like THAT old man? You want a piece of ME?

Bob: [shakes his head as he get up from the ground] I don't want a PIECE of you... I want the whole THING!
[Bob punches HOU-TEX in the stomach once then punches him in the face ten times. His tenth blow causes HOU-TEX to fall into a small pond]

JB
05-19-2010, 02:23 PM
:lol:

HOU-TEX
05-19-2010, 02:24 PM
:lol:

Can you tell where the last 5 lines came from? Slightly adjusted, of course.

JB
05-19-2010, 02:28 PM
Can you tell where the last 5 lines came from? Slightly adjusted, of course.

No. It's either hidden in my foggy brain, or right on the tip of my tongue. It's close, but I can't quite make it out.

lostboy
05-19-2010, 02:37 PM
Can you tell where the last 5 lines came from? Slightly adjusted, of course.


Adam Sandler/Bob Barker... Happy Gilmore?

badboy
05-19-2010, 02:42 PM
I got the reaction I expected. Taking a different tack due to comments, do you not see a shift back to more of a running game? Of course, I do not see AJ's role reduced much but I think passing plays vs the run will swing back to the latter. We are expecting Tate to take on a huge role as a strong fast back and Slaton with reduced carries from his rookie year and more receptions from him could reduce the WR plays. Or am I way of base?

HOU-TEX
05-19-2010, 02:45 PM
Adam Sandler/Bob Barker... Happy Gilmore?

Heh, heh, yessir

Double Barrel
05-19-2010, 03:18 PM
I got the reaction I expected. Taking a different tack due to comments, do you not see a shift back to more of a running game? Of course, I do not see AJ's role reduced much but I think passing plays vs the run will swing back to the latter. We are expecting Tate to take on a huge role as a strong fast back and Slaton with reduced carries from his rookie year and more receptions from him could reduce the WR plays. Or am I way of base?

I think Kubiak & Co. would love to get a consistent running game, as it obviously compliments the passing game.

However, there is a big question mark with regards to our run game right now, whereas our passing game has no uncertainty about it and we already know it's potential to be dominant and one of the best in the league.

And that's the fantastic thing about AJ. He's a known value as perhaps the best WR in football right now. We just aren't sure what we have for running backs until the games actually matter in September.

p.s. I hope you know that my earlier reply to you was with tongue firmly planted in cheek. It was in no way meant to disrespect you, but just having fun with the off-season topics.

infantrycak
05-19-2010, 03:23 PM
I got the reaction I expected. Taking a different tack due to comments, do you not see a shift back to more of a running game? Of course, I do not see AJ's role reduced much but I think passing plays vs the run will swing back to the latter. We are expecting Tate to take on a huge role as a strong fast back and Slaton with reduced carries from his rookie year and more receptions from him could reduce the WR plays. Or am I way of base?

I am going to go with off base. j/k

2008 - rushes 432, 4.3 ypc
2009 - rushes 425, 3.5 ypc

It wasn't that we rushed less last year. We just rushed poorly.

gtexan02
05-19-2010, 03:29 PM
Maybe we should just do a 100% incentive laden deal for AJ:

Either keep the deal you have now, or:
$2,000 per yard
$200,000 per TD
$1 million for probowl
$2 million for all pro
$1 million if we make the playoffs
$3 million if we win the superbowl

No guarantee.

Last year he would have earned:
$8 million

Rey
05-19-2010, 03:37 PM
I got the reaction I expected. Taking a different tack due to comments, do you not see a shift back to more of a running game? Of course, I do not see AJ's role reduced much but I think passing plays vs the run will swing back to the latter. We are expecting Tate to take on a huge role as a strong fast back and Slaton with reduced carries from his rookie year and more receptions from him could reduce the WR plays. Or am I way of base?

I think that depends on how well the running game is going, and whether or not we are playing from behind in these games. Last year was a combination of not running well and playing from behind or being in must throw situations, so we had inflated throwing #'s and deflated rushing #'s.

I would love to see a balanced offense though. That means we're probably doing well offensively.

infantrycak
05-19-2010, 03:54 PM
and deflated rushing #'s.

The rushing numbers for the Texans under Kubiak have been a flat line all four years with a minimum number of 417 attempts and max of 432. That's been from DOA passing game to league leading passing game.

badboy
05-19-2010, 04:01 PM
I think Kubiak & Co. would love to get a consistent running game, as it obviously compliments the passing game.

However, there is a big question mark with regards to our run game right now, whereas our passing game has no uncertainty about it and we already know it's potential to be dominant and one of the best in the league.

And that's the fantastic thing about AJ. He's a known value as perhaps the best WR in football right now. We just aren't sure what we have for running backs until the games actually matter in September.

p.s. I hope you know that my earlier reply to you was with tongue firmly planted in cheek. It was in no way meant to disrespect you, but just having fun with the off-season topics.Thanks. I have a pretty tough skin and the actual purpose was to stir a few posters up. I know I should not do that but it is so much fun. I did the same with AJ before he signed his 2nd contract by suggesting we trade him. I actually had hands coming through my screen to choke me. AJ is the perfect athlete to me; good person as well as a good athlete. I do not like the way he is handling this and believe he could get what he wants behind the scenes without stirring up his fans.

badboy
05-19-2010, 04:05 PM
I am going to go with off base. j/k

2008 - rushes 432, 4.3 ypc
2009 - rushes 425, 3.5 ypc

It wasn't that we rushed less last year. We just rushed poorly.Exactly. If we can push the average to 5 and keep the ball longer resulting in 6 points, I think Kubes would rather see that than a pass. I pushed for a change in his thinking last year because we were not getting what he wanted and it was so obvious that the passing game was the way to go. I can see AJ getting less catches but keeping his yardage and avg per catch high. JJ will also play a bigger role as a WR this year and maybe, just maybe take over #2 from Walter.

Ole Miss Texan
05-19-2010, 05:06 PM
Exactly. If we can push the average to 5 and keep the ball longer resulting in 6 points, I think Kubes would rather see that than a pass. I pushed for a change in his thinking last year because we were not getting what he wanted and it was so obvious that the passing game was the way to go. I can see AJ getting less catches but keeping his yardage and avg per catch high. JJ will also play a bigger role as a WR this year and maybe, just maybe take over #2 from Walter.

This could be a huge year for JJ. Players are talking about how fast he his and that he's above 210lbs now. Apparently he's got his head screwed on straight too. I think Kubiak said something about ever since that game suspension last season, JJ's head has been a lot more mature.

Kaiser Toro
05-19-2010, 05:58 PM
It is my opinion that AJ's performance, earned accolades, silent leadership and off field profile for the last seven years, at a high level, pretty much is the profile of a guy who should be paid.

If we can criticize guys who are requesting to be overpaid that do not perform at a high level, we sure do need to be consistent, and demand guys like AJ get paid.

Smith, and McNair tacitly, has a chance to set the bar high with this merit bonus due to McNair's desire to have a good guy brand. This should be a no brainer and I am certain it will end smoothly.

Brisco_County
05-19-2010, 06:27 PM
Maybe we should just do a 100% incentive laden deal for AJ:

Either keep the deal you have now, or:
$2,000 per yard
$200,000 per TD
$1 million for probowl
$2 million for all pro
$1 million if we make the playoffs
$3 million if we win the superbowl

No guarantee.

Last year he would have earned:
$8 million

If his contract is to be amended, incentives are the way to go.

J_R
05-19-2010, 06:50 PM
Andre Johnson will be reporting Thursday to OTAs.


McClain_on_NFL (http://twitter.com/McClain_on_NFL)

Andre Johnson is going to report to the Texans' fourth OTA on Thursday. His uncle and agent, Andre Melton, meets with GM Rick Smith Friday.

ChronicleTexans (http://twitter.com/ChronicleTexans)

Texans WR Andre Johnson will report for voluntary OTAs on Thursday, his uncle an agent said. #texans (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23texans)

ChronicleTexans (http://twitter.com/ChronicleTexans)

Johnson's agent is scheduled to meet with Texans GM Rick Smith Friday to discuss possible restructured contract. #texans (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23texans)

ChronicleTexans (http://twitter.com/ChronicleTexans)

Agent Andre Melton: "I think we can work something out that'll be a win-win situation for everybody." #texans (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23texans)

http://www.houstontexans.com/blog/index.asp?post_id=1167

thunderkyss
05-19-2010, 07:05 PM
It is my opinion that AJ's performance, earned accolades, silent leadership and off field profile for the last seven years, at a high level, pretty much is the profile of a guy who should be paid.

If we can criticize guys who are requesting to be overpaid that do not perform at a high level, we sure do need to be consistent, and demand guys like AJ get paid.

Smith, and McNair tacitly, has a chance to set the bar high with this merit bonus due to McNair's desire to have a good guy brand. This should be a no brainer and I am certain it will end smoothly.

Exactly, 100% agree... must spread rep.

thunderkyss
05-19-2010, 07:10 PM
I am going to go with off base. j/k

2008 - rushes 432, 4.3 ypc
2009 - rushes 425, 3.5 ypc

It wasn't that we rushed less last year. We just rushed poorly.

Exactly. If we can push the average to 5 and keep the ball longer resulting in 6 points, I think Kubes would rather see that than a pass. I pushed for a change in his thinking last year because we were not getting what he wanted and it was so obvious that the passing game was the way to go. I can see AJ getting less catches but keeping his yardage and avg per catch high. JJ will also play a bigger role as a WR this year and maybe, just maybe take over #2 from Walter.

What do you mean "Exactly."

Your point is in direct contradiction to what Infantrycak is saying. We are not going to be trying to throw the ball less. We haven't moved to a pass first offense. The rush attempts have pretty much been the same since Kubiak got here.

There is no reason to believe we will pass the ball less. There is no reason to believe Andre's role will be reduced. Running the ball better, will have no affect on the number of passes that will go Andre's way.

NitroGSXR
05-19-2010, 07:10 PM
I just don't like the idea of secondary family being as involved as this here. It can't ultimately end well for everybody, can it? It seems to me that Melton's moves as an agent have been somewhat subpar and of questionable quality thus far. Somebody's going to get their feelings hurt somewhere along this road. That is almost certain. I just hope it's not the Andre Johnson brand name. I have much 'Dre-love for that guy.

thunderkyss
05-19-2010, 07:19 PM
I just don't like the idea of secondary family being as involved as this here. It can't ultimately end well for everybody, can it? It seems to me that Melton's moves as an agent have been somewhat subpar and of questionable quality thus far. Somebody's going to get their feelings hurt somewhere along this road. That is almost certain. I just hope it's not the Andre Johnson brand name. I have much 'Dre-love for that guy.

I think Melton does what Andre tells him to do. Andre was helping the team out with his contract the last time. He was acting on good faith, that they would reciprocate in the future. Maybe he should have put a clause that would allow them to open talks at a future date. But in a world where you hope people would do the right thing, with a team that wants that image, & with a player that has done the right thing, this shouldn't have got to this point.

NitroGSXR
05-19-2010, 07:25 PM
I think Melton does what Andre tells him to do. Andre was helping the team out with his contract the last time. He was acting on good faith, that they would reciprocate in the future. Maybe he should have put a clause that would allow them to open talks at a future date. But in a world where you hope people would do the right thing, with a team that wants that image, & with a player that has done the right thing, this shouldn't have got to this point.

Then Andre's a friggin' moron. Hiring a bonafide shark ain't all that hard considering his earning potential.

thunderkyss
05-19-2010, 07:32 PM
Then Andre's a friggin' moron. Hiring a bonafide shark ain't all that hard considering his earning potential.

maybe one of the reasons Andre is (or at least was) determined to stay a Texan for the rest of his career, is because of the good guy, do the right thing, approach the Texans have tried to portray.

What's wrong with that?

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 07:44 PM
I think Melton does what Andre tells him to do. Andre was helping the team out with his contract the last time.

Jeez, why do people keep typing this?

I don't get it at all... The "team friendly years" were just coming up. As soon as his yearly salary dipped he wanted a new contract.

LOL, Andre didn't do us any favors contract wise. He's about to get his 3rd contract in 7 years and people are acting like he made this great "sacrifice" for the betterment of the team. LOL. 3 contracts (and everything that goes along with them...such as signing bonuses) in 7 years....We've literally spared no expense with Andre Johnson.

JB
05-19-2010, 07:50 PM
Jeez, why do people keep typing this?

I don't get it at all... The "team friendly years" were just coming up. As soon as his yearly salary dipped he wanted a new contract.

LOL, Andre didn't do us any favors contract wise. He's about to get his 3rd contract in 7 years and people are acting like he made this great "sacrifice" for the betterment of the team. LOL. 3 contracts (and everything that goes along with them...such as signing bonuses)....We've literally spared no expense with Andre Johnson.

Do you deny that that the redo of his contract helped the team get out of salary cap hell? And IIRC the team approached him about it?

thunderkyss
05-19-2010, 08:02 PM
Jeez, why do people keep typing this?

I don't get it at all... The "team friendly years" were just coming up. As soon as his yearly salary dipped he wanted a new contract.

LOL, Andre didn't do us any favors contract wise. He's about to get his 3rd contract in 7 years and people are acting like he made this great "sacrifice" for the betterment of the team. LOL. 3 contracts (and everything that goes along with them...such as signing bonuses) in 7 years....We've literally spared no expense with Andre Johnson.

What was his yearly salary for 2008 & 2009? He is scheduled to make almost $6million in 2010, and more than $7 million I believe in 2011. The Team friendly, Cap friendly part of the deal, was to spread the signing bonus out over 8 years... through 2014, and reduce his annual salary of 2007 and 2008.

thunderkyss
05-19-2010, 08:21 PM
He was scheduled for a $16 million base salary in 2007, plus a $5 million dollar Roster Bonus. (http://archive.profootballtalk.com/7-16-03to7-31-03archives.htm) That would have been $21 million for that year alone. If my math is right, and he played out that last year, he would have counted for $21 million against the salary cap. Instead, I think he only amounted to $7 million with his restructured deal, that helped the Texans get under the cap.

His pay goes up every year (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Andre-Johnson-s-unhappiness-adds-to-Texans-dram?urn=nfl,241792) from now through 2014, this isn't the "team friendly portion" of the contract that most vets are signed to... i.e.. this isn't a frontloaded contract.He's not happy about an eight-year, $60 million contract extension that he signed in March of 2007 that will pay him a base salary of $5.8 million this season. That base jumps to $6.8 million in 2011 and $7.3 million in 2012, narrows off to $7 million in 2013, and goes back up to $7.3 million in 2014. Add in $15 million in guaranteed money, and it sounds like a lot of scratch ... until you compare Johnson's contract with other recent receiver deals.

Runner
05-19-2010, 08:22 PM
Andre Johnson will be reporting Thursday to OTAs.


McClain_on_NFL (http://twitter.com/McClain_on_NFL)

Andre Johnson is going to report to the Texans' fourth OTA on Thursday. His uncle and agent, Andre Melton, meets with GM Rick Smith Friday.

ChronicleTexans (http://twitter.com/ChronicleTexans)

Texans WR Andre Johnson will report for voluntary OTAs on Thursday, his uncle an agent said. #texans (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23texans)

ChronicleTexans (http://twitter.com/ChronicleTexans)

Johnson's agent is scheduled to meet with Texans GM Rick Smith Friday to discuss possible restructured contract. #texans (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23texans)

ChronicleTexans (http://twitter.com/ChronicleTexans)

Agent Andre Melton: "I think we can work something out that'll be a win-win situation for everybody." #texans (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23texans)

http://www.houstontexans.com/blog/index.asp?post_id=1167

Lot of venom was spent on Andre. Skipping three voluntary OTAs and coming to work - that's about as classy as a pseudo-holdout gets.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 08:26 PM
He was scheduled for a $16 million base salary in 2007, plus a $5 million dollar Roster Bonus. (http://archive.profootballtalk.com/7-16-03to7-31-03archives.htm) That would have been $21 million for that year alone. If my math is right, and he played out that last year, he would have counted for $21 million against the salary cap. Instead, I think he only amounted to $7 million with his restructured deal, that helped the Texans get under the cap.

His pay goes up every year (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Andre-Johnson-s-unhappiness-adds-to-Texans-dram?urn=nfl,241792) from now through 2014, this isn't the "team friendly portion" of the contract that most vets are signed to... i.e.. this isn't a frontloaded contract.


He got like a 15 million dollar signing bonus, both parties benefited from it (the Texans benefited from it, because they were able to move all the money towards a new signing bonus)......Andre didn't have to sacrifice anything. It was just a restructure.....and now he's about to get another signing bonus. Why do people act like he did without coin to sign that contract, when he's about to get another one?

The man hasn't done without and won't do without, so the "he signed a team friendly contract" argument falls on deaf ears.

Runner
05-19-2010, 08:26 PM
I just don't like the idea of secondary family being as involved as this here.

Secondary family? In title only.


It seems to me that Melton's moves as an agent have been somewhat subpar and of questionable quality thus far.

Football has been very lucrative for Dre. Somebody has done a good job in that regard.

NitroGSXR
05-19-2010, 08:46 PM
Secondary family? In title only.




Football has been very lucrative for Dre. Somebody has done a good job in that regard.

Absolutely. Andre Johnson did a helluva job with his numbers. Does his contract portray that? I don't think so. Hey, I'm an Andre Johnson fan. I'm not bagging on Johnson! Just his agent. Melton hasn't exactly been media-savvy, has he? If I were Andre, I'd gun for a qualified agent who plays hardball over an uncle. Do not be fooled by the front office, it's a business after all. It's all about who snags the last dollar floating on by in writing. It's a mad dash.

Personally, I don't care who gets the dollars. It's all a cluster**** anyway. Way above me. I'm just ready to see who's out on the field for our opener. I'm here to scream my head off for 3 hours 16 (hopefully more) Sundays a year. Contract squabbles aren't my ball of wax.

Runner
05-19-2010, 09:00 PM
...Melton hasn't exactly been media-savvy, has he? If I were Andre, I'd gun for a qualified agent who plays hardball over an uncle. Do not be fooled by the front office, it's a business after all...

I'm not the one fooled by the front office. I like the smooth "We don't negotiate with players who aren't participating" policy. Dre's been trying to get this thing done for months; it's as much the Texans fault for dragging it out until OTAs started as it is for Andre skipping them to get their attention. This didn't start four days ago.

I don't understand why fans are clamoring for Dre to get an agent. Do people really think it would be better for the Texans if he had somebody like Dunta's agent? It seems more like a witch hunt to find somebody to blame instead of accepting the realities of the relationship between football teams and their players.

How should Andre Melton be more media savvy? I thought players or their representatives running to the press were hated around here.

valleytexfan
05-19-2010, 09:00 PM
I'm just glad that he's coming in...bottom line. Handle the business side and he'll handle the football side! :splits:

thunderkyss
05-19-2010, 09:05 PM
He got like a 15 million dollar signing bonus, both parties benefited from it (the Texans benefited from it, because they were able to move all the money towards a new signing bonus)......Andre didn't have to sacrifice anything. It was just a restructure.....and now he's about to get another signing bonus. Why do people act like he did without coin to sign that contract, when he's about to get another one?

The man hasn't done without and won't do without, so the "he signed a team friendly contract" argument falls on deaf ears.

I tell you, and provide a link, that he was set to make $21 million in 2007 alone, You tell me that he received a $15 million bonus to cover the years 2007, 2008, & 2009, and expect me to believe he wasn't missing anything? :tiphat:

Help me understand.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 09:06 PM
How should Andre Melton be more media savvy? I thought players or their representatives running to the press were hated around here.

From a player/agent standpoint. Andre Melton has been killing it. Name another agent who has been able to get a #3 ovrl pick 3 contracts in 7 years.

Say what you will about the guy, but if he pulls this off.....he's been one of the best agents as far from a player perspective goes.

Runner
05-19-2010, 09:12 PM
From a player/agent standpoint. Andre Melton has been killing it. Name another agent who has been able to get a #3 ovrl pick 3 contracts in 7 years.

Say what you will about the guy, but if he pulls this off.....he's been one of the best agents as far from a player perspective goes.

Yep. He represents the player, not the team.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 09:13 PM
I tell you, and provide a link, that he was set to make $21 million in 2007 alone, You tell me that he received a $15 million bonus to cover the years 2007, 2008, & 2009, and expect me to believe he wasn't missing anything? :tiphat:

Help me understand.

With all the bonus money and yearly salaries he got from that new deal.......the man wasn't shorted money. It's really not that hard to understand. Especially when you add in the fact that he'll get another huge bonus if he gets a new deal

It's not that you don't understand it, you just refuse to.

Brisco_County
05-19-2010, 09:19 PM
Lot of venom was spent on Andre. Skipping three voluntary OTAs and coming to work - that's about as classy as a pseudo-holdout gets.

I think people were psychologically preparing for his departure, like the feeling you get when you find text messages from your girlfriend to another guy.

JB
05-19-2010, 09:20 PM
Johnson had two seasons remaining on the original contract he signed as the Texans' first-round choice in the 2003 draft, at base scheduled base salaries of $5.25 million for 2007 and $7.75 million for 2008. Those base salaries were reduced, replaced in part by the signing bonus, and the Texans gained much-needed cap room with the maneuver.

It is believed the extension, which essentially created an eight-year deal counting the two season remaining on Johnson's original contract, carved out more than $6 million in new 2007 cap room.

"This is a great thing for us, because Andre is our best player, and he's going to be a Texan for a long time," general manager Rick Smith told the Houston Chronicle. "Not only are we ensured of keeping Andre, but we cleared some room under the cap, so it was a win-win situation."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786880

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 09:25 PM
I think people were psychologically preparing for his departure, like the feeling you get when you find text messages from your girlfriend to another guy.

With 5 years left on his contract, I don't think anybody ever feared that he was going to leave.

Rey
05-19-2010, 09:26 PM
With 5 years left on his contract, I don't think anybody ever feared that he was going to leave.

I think a few were worried that he may be trying to force a trade.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 09:28 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786880

And that's pretty much everything I said above. They reduced his base salary, by restructuring everything into a new signing bonus. Hence AJ didn't lose coin and now he's going to get paid again only a couple of years later.

Which is why I don't entertain the thought that some people have around here that Andre made great sacrifices. The guy got paid and now that pay is only going to increase.

NitroGSXR
05-19-2010, 09:28 PM
I think a few were worried that he may be trying to force a trade.

Hence my issues with Melton and some of the things he's said that Andre ended up refuting.

DerekLee1
05-19-2010, 09:29 PM
I still think he wasn't really holding out, and this was all to distract the media away from Cushing's situation. I remember hearing something a couple of weeks ago that Dre would be missing the start of camp to finish up some classes at Miami or something. And go back and look at Rick Smith when he's discussing why Dre isn't there. He's kinda smirking, like he's in on a joke that the rest of us don't know about.

I think they had a deal done verbally, possibly even offered by the Texans themselves, that Dre had some personal things to take care of, and they used it as a ploy to bury the Cushing story.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 09:31 PM
I think a few were worried that he may be trying to force a trade.

How would he do that???

He has/had no leverage, the guy would literally have to sit out 5 years and even if he sat out one year, other teams would seriously have questions about trading for a receiver who sat out a whole season (seeing how nobody does that), because he's upset with a contract that he just signed and a contract that still has 5 years left on it.

Andre wouldn't be able to force anything....with 5 years left on his contract he can only do what we allow him to do, and we're allowing him to possibly rip up his contract.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 09:35 PM
Hence my issues with Melton and some of the things he's said that Andre ended up refuting.

So far in his short career as a agent, Melton is making Drew Rosenhaus look like Buddy Baker.

JB
05-19-2010, 09:47 PM
I still think he wasn't really holding out, and this was all to distract the media away from Cushing's situation. I remember hearing something a couple of weeks ago that Dre would be missing the start of camp to finish up some classes at Miami or something. And go back and look at Rick Smith when he's discussing why Dre isn't there. He's kinda smirking, like he's in on a joke that the rest of us don't know about.

I think they had a deal done verbally, possibly even offered by the Texans themselves, that Dre had some personal things to take care of, and they used it as a ploy to bury the Cushing story.

I remember the same. I wish I could find that link. And combine that with the comments JJ made about AJ finishing school.

I think the new PR guy pulled off a masterpiece. (or maybe one final one from the dude leaving.)

b0ng
05-19-2010, 09:52 PM
If this was really some sort of ploy to get the heat off of Cushing, then bravo Rick Smith/PR Dept. Truly a masterstroke.

I bet AJ isn't that happy with his contract though.

Rey
05-19-2010, 09:53 PM
How would he do that???

He has/had no leverage, the guy would literally have to sit out 5 years and even if he sat out one year, other teams would seriously have questions about trading for a receiver who sat out a whole season (seeing how nobody does that), because he's upset with a contract that he just signed and a contract that still has 5 years left on it.

Andre wouldn't be able to force anything....with 5 years left on his contract he can only do what we allow him to do, and we're allowing him to possibly rip up his contract.

You really think teams wouldn't trade for a wr because of character concerns? LOL

If someone traded for Marshall and Pac Man Jones has a job, I think teams would take on Dre

If dre really was in the trade me or I sit mode, I think there is a possibility that the Texans would go ahead and get whatever value they could. I don't know how many yrs Cutler had on his deal or why that matters, but he forced a trade while under contract

thunderkyss
05-19-2010, 09:57 PM
With all the bonus money and yearly salaries he got from that new deal.......the man wasn't shorted money. It's really not that hard to understand. Especially when you add in the fact that he'll get another huge bonus if he gets a new deal

It's not that you don't understand it, you just refuse to.

Ok, if you agree the bonus money was "restructured" taken from what would have been his salary in 2007, 2008, and 2009 then paid to him as a bonus, you're basically saying he got nothing out of the deal, because it is what he was scheduled to make in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

In 2009 (http://www.inthebullseye.com/cap2009.html), his base salary was $2.825 million
In 2008 (http://www.inthebullseye.com/cap2008.html), his base salary was $2.825 million
I'm assuming his base in 2007, was $2.825 million

Add the $15 million bonus, and that's $23 million.

According to the link I posted earlier, he would have made $21 million in 2009 alone. 2007 & 2008 would have been another $12 million.

The only thing the 2007 extension did, was allow the Texans to spread his salary out further than the 3 years he had left on it... 2007, 2008, 2009.

2010, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2016 is where the new money comes in.

Far as Andre is concerned, he's just been playing out the end of his rookie contract. The $15 million bonus was part of that deal. When you add that to the $13 million from his first bonus ($28 million) he would have had to average $1.8 million in base salary from 2003-2009 to equal the $39 million he was supposed to make.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 10:04 PM
You really think teams wouldn't trade for a WR because of character concerns? LOL

If someone traded for Marshall and Pac Man Jones has a job, I think teams would take on Dre

If Dre really was in the trade me or I sit mode, I think there is a possibility that the Texans would go ahead and get whatever value they could. I don't know how many yrs Cutler had on his deal or why that matters, but he forced a trade while under contract



First of all the Texans would have to accept a trade (They wouldn't do that, unless a team gave up a king's ransom for him and a team wouldn't do that if Andre really sat out a entire year of football).

Second, Andre is not a QB. If you want a good opinion on the difference between the ability to force a trade of QBs and non QB positions, go look up what Chad Johnson had to say about the subject.


There was no danger of Andre getting cut or traded, the Texans have him dead to rights if they wanted to.....they are being extremely nice in trying to accommodate him with 5 years left on his contract.

JB
05-19-2010, 10:10 PM
If this was really some sort of ploy to get the heat off of Cushing, then bravo Rick Smith/PR Dept. Truly a masterstroke.

I bet AJ isn't that happy with his contract though.

Absoultely he is not happy with his contract. Nor should he be. But I would not be surprised to learn that there was a secret agreement that his contract would be re-evaluated at this point. We were kinda set up for it last year.

DerekLee1
05-19-2010, 10:14 PM
There was no danger of Andre getting cut or traded, the Texans have him dead to rights if they wanted to.....they are being extremely nice in trying to accommodate him with 5 years left on his contract.

I thought the rule in the NFL was that if you sat an entire season as a holdout, you were automatically released as a free agent. If that's true, the fact that he had five years means nothing. It could be 1 year or 10 years.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 10:36 PM
I thought the rule in the NFL was that if you sat an entire season as a holdout, you were automatically released as a free agent. If that's true, the fact that he had five years means nothing. It could be 1 year or 10 years.

I don't think that's true.....I believe Houston would still have his rights.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 10:37 PM
Ok, if you agree the bonus money was "restructured" taken from what would have been his salary in 2007, 2008, and 2009 then paid to him as a bonus, you're basically saying he got nothing out of the deal, because it is what he was scheduled to make in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

In 2009 (http://www.inthebullseye.com/cap2009.html), his base salary was $2.825 million
In 2008 (http://www.inthebullseye.com/cap2008.html), his base salary was $2.825 million
I'm assuming his base in 2007, was $2.825 million

Add the $15 million bonus, and that's $23 million.

According to the link I posted earlier, he would have made $21 million in 2009 alone. 2007 & 2008 would have been another $12 million.

The only thing the 2007 extension did, was allow the Texans to spread his salary out further than the 3 years he had left on it... 2007, 2008, 2009.

2010, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2016 is where the new money comes in.

Far as Andre is concerned, he's just been playing out the end of his rookie contract. The $15 million bonus was part of that deal. When you add that to the $13 million from his first bonus ($28 million) he would have had to average $1.8 million in base salary from 2003-2009 to equal the $39 million he was supposed to make.

Do you have any other links to his rookie contract, besides a PFT piece that was posted before Andre ever played a down in the NFL? And what were the "incentives" on that rookie contract to get that big pay day his last season?

infantrycak
05-19-2010, 10:40 PM
I thought the rule in the NFL was that if you sat an entire season as a holdout, you were automatically released as a free agent. If that's true, the fact that he had five years means nothing. It could be 1 year or 10 years.

The most games a player can sit out is 10 to still get credit for the season. They would only get paid for 6 games but it would count against their contract years. If they sit out more than 10 games it is as if the year didn't happen with regard to their contract.

b0ng
05-19-2010, 10:49 PM
With AJ showing up on Thursday was all of this a ruse.

Runner
05-19-2010, 10:59 PM
With AJ showing up on Thursday was all of this a ruse.

I doubt it. This is a straightforward example of the NFL player/team mating dance.

thunderkyss
05-19-2010, 11:14 PM
Do you have any other links to his rookie contract, besides a PFT piece that was posted before Andre ever played a down in the NFL? And what were the "incentives" on that rookie contract to get that big pay day his last season?

Do you? Not only is none of this making sense from your point of view about his rookie contract, but you also believe his current contract was front loaded, paying the majority of what is owed to the player up front.

His current contract steps up every year, starting at $5.8 million dollars this year.

The three previous years, he played for a base salary of $2.825 million dollars. $8.4 million. add the $15 million bonus and it's $23.4 million, leaving $36.6 million to be paid over 5 years.

$7.3 million/year for the best wide receiver in the league... Just doesn't sound right to me.

Carr Bombed
05-19-2010, 11:22 PM
Do you? Not only is none of this making sense from your point of view about his rookie contract, but you also believe his current contract was front loaded, paying the majority of what is owed to the player up front.

His current contract steps up every year, starting at $5.8 million dollars this year.

The three previous years, he played for a base salary of $2.825 million dollars. $8.4 million. add the $15 million bonus and it's $23.4 million, leaving $36.6 million to be paid over 5 years.

$7.3 million/year for the best wide receiver in the league... Just doesn't sound right to me.

About half the value of his contract has already been paid to him over the first 3 seasons of that contract....so yes, he's gotten more money during the start of it.

And sorry, but shoot me if I need a more reliable link for the rookie contract and the yearly payouts that were due for that contract.

thunderkyss
05-20-2010, 12:50 AM
About half the value of his contract has already been paid to him over the first 3 seasons of that contract....so yes, he's gotten more money during the start of it.

23.4 is 39% of 60... and 2007 & 2008 were actually a restructure of his rookie deal, where he took less money to help the team get under the cap. He would have earned between $26 million and $28 million his last two years under his rookie contract. With the restructure, he only earned $10 million under the new deal, if nothing else changes. $1.8 million from the pro-rated bonus, and $2.825 million as his base salary. (x2)


And sorry, but shoot me if I need a more reliable link for the rookie contract and the yearly payouts that were due for that contract.

Sorry, but shoot me if I expect you to do your own research to back up what you are saying.

You said his contract was front loaded, and he received the lions share of it already, and now wants a bigger contract once it got "team friendly".... prove it.

You said he didn't lose any money by restructuring his rookie contract. prove it.

I provided a source, you don't like it... find your own disproving mine.


Actually, it's not easy to find anything referencing his rookie contract with more detail than that one... I tried.

2slik4u
05-20-2010, 07:30 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5202683

Now we can exhale a deep sigh of relief....:bender:

mods please combine with another thread if needed.

hobie
05-20-2010, 07:42 AM
I'm ehh with the entire thing.. it is voluntary...walk thru's, running..etc... so what, not like he needs to get into shape.. This entire thing has been blown out of the water too darn much..
I thought voluntary meant just that... and it's news.. geeez !!

Thorn
05-20-2010, 07:58 AM
Well, damn. What the hell do we have left to panic about now?

Need. More. Controversy. LOL

hobie
05-20-2010, 08:02 AM
Well, damn. What the hell do we have left to panic about now?

Need. More. Controversy. LOL

OK, TB wants us all to believe that he's not in the closet, yet he's never come out of it..

Thorn
05-20-2010, 08:05 AM
OK, TB wants us all to believe that he's not in the closet, yet he's never come out of it..

damn. And I shook his hand at the meet up last weekend. :eek:

dalemurphy
05-20-2010, 08:06 AM
Well, damn. What the hell do we have left to panic about now?

Need. More. Controversy. LOL


Give me some time. I'll come up with something.

BIG TORO
05-20-2010, 08:19 AM
So does this mean that they have come to an agreement?

BullNation4Life
05-20-2010, 08:38 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5202683

Now we can exhale a deep sigh of relief....:bender:

mods please combine with another thread if needed.

Who held their breath to begin with? If someone held their breath about a nothing situation, they may need to seek stress help....

BullNation4Life
05-20-2010, 08:41 AM
Well, damn. What the hell do we have left to panic about now?

Need. More. Controversy. LOL

http://christianmenchristianwarrior.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/chicken-little-sky-falling.jpg

Wait, why isn't the sky falling? OMG! THE SKY ISN'T FALLING! THE SKY ISN'T FALLING! HELP!

2slik4u
05-20-2010, 08:41 AM
So does this mean that they have come to an agreement?

From what I could tell, they're starting discussions for restructuring his deal.

As for the previous comments, yes it is voluntary workouts but since when has it been the norm for AJ to miss those???

Yes, we are probably a little premature and overblown on our reactions but when a player of this calibur and previous track record show none of this ever happening.....thats when the panic button gets warmed up.

This was not meant for Big Toro, meant for Hobie.

2slik4u
05-20-2010, 08:45 AM
Who held their breath to begin with? If someone held their breath about a nothing situation, they may need to seek stress help....

Just one less distraction to deal with this off season. Coming off the whole Cush drama, having contract/diva issues with your #1 player is the last thing this team needs.

As for exhaling......:sarcasm:

HuttoKarl
05-20-2010, 08:49 AM
ZOMG!!!!

IT'S MAY AND WE'VE ONLY SIGNED ONE DRAFT PICK!!!!

DOOM!

DESPAIR!!!

AGONY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





discuss.

HOU-TEX
05-20-2010, 09:16 AM
I'm ehh with the entire thing.. it is voluntary...walk thru's, running..etc... so what, not like he needs to get into shape.. This entire thing has been blown out of the water too darn much..
I thought voluntary meant just that... and it's news.. geeez !!

I've kinda felt the same way about the whole situation. IMO, we've been lucky he's attended every OTA since he's been here. Teams across the league have players not show up to OTA's all the time.

That said, it did take a lot of heat off Cush's back. So we have that going for us.

Mike Kerns
05-20-2010, 11:07 AM
A sight for sore eyes:

http://images.fanfeedr.com/2010/05/20/6/m63c46b8a90e15aebb248cb8e279db23e.jpg

http://images.fanfeedr.com/2010/05/20/4/m40300417787d5a71ad736eadf6f99096.jpg

Section516
05-20-2010, 11:12 AM
KJ,

Meet your daddy.

AJ

badboy
05-20-2010, 11:28 AM
What do you mean "Exactly."

Your point is in direct contradiction to what Infantrycak is saying. We are not going to be trying to throw the ball less. We haven't moved to a pass first offense. The rush attempts have pretty much been the same since Kubiak got here.

There is no reason to believe we will pass the ball less. There is no reason to believe Andre's role will be reduced. Running the ball better, will have no affect on the number of passes that will go Andre's way.TK I said that ICAK's "we rushed poorly" was exact. Kubiak admitted that our previous philosophy of the run setting up the pass was changed during last season. He said they were not going to a pass first mentality but it was obvious the running game was not successful and he would do what it took to win. Schaub passing and Andre's stats reveal that. As I've posted Gary's philosophy is to run the ball. This has been discussed for years. A #2 was used on Tate whose rep is running the ball with power and speed as an every down type back. I do expect to see a balanced offense this year with a nod to the running game if our backs prove to be up to it.

Double Barrel
05-20-2010, 11:32 AM
Jeez, why do people keep typing this?

Because it's true? :um:

What part of "creates salary cap room for 2007 that will permit officials to pursue some free agents (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786880)" do you not understand?


LOL, Andre didn't do us any favors contract wise. He's about to get his 3rd contract in 7 years and people are acting like he made this great "sacrifice" for the betterment of the team. LOL. 3 contracts (and everything that goes along with them...such as signing bonuses) in 7 years....We've literally spared no expense with Andre Johnson.

He did make a "great sacrifice" for this team. He committed his HoF career to a perpetual mediocre franchise. Dude could have played out his rookie contract and signed with any of the 31 teams. The market would have been his for the taking, and he would have been well compensated wherever he landed. If you don't think that's sacrifice for the team, then we'll just have to leave it as an agreement to disagree.

Besides, it wasn't a second contract. It was a six-year contract extension (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786880) to his rookie contract.

Then Andre's a friggin' moron. Hiring a bonafide shark ain't all that hard considering his earning potential.

If he had a shark for an agent *cough*ScottBoras*cough*, he would have advised AJ to get off the loser team and sign with a championship caliber team that would compensate him, as well (Indy, NE).

I'm glad he doesn't have a shark for an agent as a Texans fan. :shades:

HOU-TEX
05-20-2010, 11:37 AM
Geez, it doesn't appear that AJ lost any size so far this off-season.

AJ = President of HOU-TEX's Beast Club

Texan_Bill
05-20-2010, 11:40 AM
http://lazydabbler.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/happy-gilmore.jpg

Happy HOU-TEX!!!


:lol:

Texan_Bill
05-20-2010, 11:41 AM
Geez, it doesn't appear that AJ lost any size so far this off-season.

AJ = President of HOU-TEX's Beast Club

Was Vonta impeached?

El Tejano
05-20-2010, 11:42 AM
Geez, it doesn't appear that AJ lost any size so far this off-season.

AJ = President of HOU-TEX's Beast Club

The first thing I noticed too when I saw the pictures.

infantrycak
05-20-2010, 11:44 AM
TK I said that ICAK's "we rushed poorly" was exact. Kubiak admitted that our previous philosophy of the run setting up the pass was changed during last season. He said they were not going to a pass first mentality but it was obvious the running game was not successful and he would do what it took to win. Schaub passing and Andre's stats reveal that. As I've posted Gary's philosophy is to run the ball. This has been discussed for years. A #2 was used on Tate whose rep is running the ball with power and speed as an every down type back. I do expect to see a balanced offense this year with a nod to the running game if our backs prove to be up to it.

Here's the thing. We had an effective running game in 2008, correct? - or at least much better than last year. So was the passing game down? - nope. Project out Schaub as a 16 game starter and he would have had 4637 yards. Basically the same as last year. The potential I see for less passing is not at the beginning of games but at the end. IF we can get up on teams AND get a consistent rushing attack then sure Kubiak will probably dial back the passing. And then there will be howls of outrage about going conservative.

HOU-TEX
05-20-2010, 11:46 AM
Was Vonta impeached?

No way, he's a part of the Beast Club. He's right behind AJ and D-Ryans.

I sure would like to recruit a few more Texans players to the Beast Club. Cushing and Pollard are pledging, but their initiation doen't end until after this season.

Mike Kerns
05-20-2010, 11:57 AM
http://twitter.com/NickScurfield/statuses/14372841810


Andre Johnson: “I plan on being a Texan until the day I retire, and that hasn’t changed.”

:bravo:

Mike Kerns
05-20-2010, 11:59 AM
A couple more:

http://images.fanfeedr.com/2010/05/20/f/mf87b0141a5c759eda35967945961a91f.jpg

http://images.fanfeedr.com/2010/05/20/5/m59ad14a4428e5e0d9c17e1511277bf5e.jpg

El Tejano
05-20-2010, 12:03 PM
I wish I could see a pick of Dorin Dickerson so close behind Andre Johnson that it looks like Andre is wearing his jersey. That dudes got an Andre Johnson like physique and I would like for him to eventually be able to be our dual threat.

On another note (and it's just because I'm glad to see #80 in practice) Brian Cushing didn't test positive for PEDs. He tested positive for Andre Johnsons.

b0ng
05-20-2010, 12:05 PM
Damn it's good seeing AJ with a pigskin in his hand. I am now anxiously awaiting his praise of Kareem Jackson.

How many peoples heads would explode if he came out and said "That Jackson guy is a scrub. He couldn't cover David Anderson."

JB
05-20-2010, 12:14 PM
Damn it's good seeing AJ with a pigskin in his hand. I am now anxiously awaiting his praise of Kareem Jackson.

How many peoples heads would explode if he came out and said "That Jackson guy is a scrub. He couldn't cover David Anderson."

But even if it were true, AJ would not say it. He would just continue to out awesome everyone quietly

badboy
05-20-2010, 12:57 PM
Here's the thing. We had an effective running game in 2008, correct? - or at least much better than last year. So was the passing game down? - nope. Project out Schaub as a 16 game starter and he would have had 4637 yards. Basically the same as last year. The potential I see for less passing is not at the beginning of games but at the end. IF we can get up on teams AND get a consistent rushing attack then sure Kubiak will probably dial back the passing. And then there will be howls of outrage about going conservative.I just don't know. I think if Kubes thinks the RBs are good he will cautiously run the ball to set up the pass. I am not focusing on the passing yards but the attempts which may start off equal or even ahead but as the RBs win his confidence the attempts will change as season progresses. I don't think Kubiak's history is to try to overwhelm the opponent with points but to win the game clock and be ahead at the end. That may change after Schaub/Johnson's last season. One area I would like to see AJ improve on his long home run catches ending in the end zone.

infantrycak
05-20-2010, 03:16 PM
Geez the state of reporting/radio is bad in this town. Caller on 610 asserts AJ is trying to renegotiate a year on his original contract for the second time and neither guy corrects him.

Ryan
05-20-2010, 03:58 PM
Geez the state of reporting/radio is bad in this town. Caller on 610 asserts AJ is trying to renegotiate a year on his original contract for the second time and neither guy corrects him.



but....but...but...we have John McClain!!! :foottap:

badboy
05-20-2010, 04:01 PM
but....but...but...we have John McClain!!! :foottap:anyone know the new guy reporting on Texans for Chronicle, John Miller I think?

b0ng
05-20-2010, 04:09 PM
Geez the state of reporting/radio is bad in this town. Caller on 610 asserts AJ is trying to renegotiate a year on his original contract for the second time and neither guy corrects him.

Sports Radio bad in Houston? That's unpossible!

Texans_Chick
05-20-2010, 04:18 PM
Here' my write up and video of AJ's return from today:


Andre Johnson Arrives at OTAs, Says He Plans to Retire a Texan (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/05/20/andre-johnson-arrives-at-otas-says-he-plans-to-retire-a-texan/)

It's a little different story. When an event is a non-event, then write a story about the silliness of the non-event. Vonta Leach is hilarious--he really embarrassed Mr. Johnson.

SheTexan
05-20-2010, 04:27 PM
Gawd, I just love VL!! The dude just flat out ROCKS!!!

Texan_Bill
05-20-2010, 04:57 PM
Here' my write up and video of AJ's return from today:


Andre Johnson Arrives at OTAs, Says He Plans to Retire a Texan (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/05/20/andre-johnson-arrives-at-otas-says-he-plans-to-retire-a-texan/)

It's a little different story. When an event is a non-event, then write a story about the silliness of the non-event. Vonta Leach is hilarious--he really embarrassed Mr. Johnson.

Thanks for your awesomeness, Steph!!

gary
05-20-2010, 07:04 PM
He might be getting what he wants soon so let it all play out and see how things go.

Carr Bombed
05-20-2010, 10:15 PM
23.4 is 39% of 60... and 2007 & 2008 were actually a restructure of his rookie deal, where he took less money to help the team get under the cap. He would have earned between $26 million and $28 million his last two years under his rookie contract. With the restructure, he only earned $10 million under the new deal, if nothing else changes. $1.8 million from the pro-rated bonus, and $2.825 million as his base salary. (x2)



Sorry, but shoot me if I expect you to do your own research to back up what you are saying.

You said his contract was front loaded, and he received the lions share of it already, and now wants a bigger contract once it got "team friendly".... prove it.

You said he didn't lose any money by restructuring his rookie contract. prove it.

I provided a source, you don't like it... find your own disproving mine.


Actually, it's not easy to find anything referencing his rookie contract with more detail than that one... I tried.

Umm, actually I said he already received half his contract......and he has, so I have nothing to prove. You're the guy who popped off with a PFT post (excuse me LOL) and no other proof of "that rookie contract" (which you're whole argument is based on) to fall back on.

PFT is NOT a legitimate source (you most likely just fell victim to the national enquirer of the NFL), especially when the link you posted was before Andre even played a NFL down.

P.S.

Andre didn't lose any money. A guy who will probably sign his 3rd contract in 7 years doesn't lose money...that's a given.

Carr Bombed
05-20-2010, 10:34 PM
Because it's true? :um:

What part of "creates salary cap room for 2007 that will permit officials to pursue some free agents (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786880)" do you not understand?

Umm, apparently you missed the entire basis of the argument.....I'm talking about "great sacrifices" Andre was allowed to rewrite a contract and receive another big pay day. Try again.




He did make a "great sacrifice" for this team. He committed his HoF career to a perpetual mediocre franchise. Dude could have played out his rookie contract and signed with any of the 31 teams. The market would have been his for the taking, and he would have been well compensated wherever he landed. If you don't think that's sacrifice for the team, then we'll just have to leave it as an agreement to disagree.

He could of "waited it out", but he didn't......he took the new signing bonus and was happy to take it....until the very next chance where he could grab a new one. Again, when you're signing your 3rd NFL contract in 7 seasons you aren't sacrificing much...the dude got paid and IS GETTING PAID. What is so hard not to understand here. The guy has been paid handsomely.

Besides, it wasn't a second contract. It was a six-year contract extension (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786880) to his rookie contract.

Potatoes...Potaughtoes.. The guy got a new deal in place with a new signing bonus. You know what everybody has been talking about. Don't try to "lawyer it up" here. You're better than that.



If he had a shark for an agent *cough*ScottBoras*cough*, he would have advised AJ to get off the loser team and sign with a championship caliber team that would compensate him, as well (Indy, NE).

I'm glad he doesn't have a shark for an agent as a Texans fan. :shades:

Yeah, that's why Scott Boras advised Carlos Beltran to sign with a team that was 20 games under .500 over a team that was in the NLCS, despite offering him almost the same pay... Hmm, nice argument there. :rolleyes:

thunderkyss
05-20-2010, 10:59 PM
Umm, actually I said he already received half his contract......and he has,

No he hasn't.

PFT is NOT a legitimate source (you most likely just fell victim to the national enquirer of the NFL), especially when the link you posted was before Andre even played a NFL down.

Aren't most rookie contracts signed before the player plays an actual down?

Isn't that the way that works?

P.S.

Andre didn't lose any money. A guy who will probably sign his 3rd contract in 7 years doesn't lose money...that's a given.

Even the ESPN article (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786880) says he was scheduled to make $13 million over the last two years of his rookie deal.

Instead, he got a $15 million bonus prorated over 8 years. That's $1.8 million. He was payed $2.825 million for 2007, and 2008 (the two years that were part of his rookie deal (remember, there are still 6 more years after these two). So for 2007& 2008, he was compensated $9.25 million. And some how you don't see where he lost money on the deal?

In 2009, his compensation was pretty much the same. $1.8 million from the bonus, $2.825 million as base pay. $4.625 million. Are you telling me the best WR in the league could not have gotten more than $5 million/year from any other team? The first half of his rookie contract, he was being compenstaed much closer to $7 million/year.

Strangely enough, if you prorate that bonus over 3 years, and not 8, it comes out to $7.825 million/year, which is in line with what the top receiver should have been making over that time.

I know it is hard for you. But it makes sense, if you can bring yourself to understand the contract restructure was to benefit the team. There had to have been an understanding of some kind that there would be more contract talks, most likely about this time.

Carr Bombed
05-20-2010, 11:29 PM
No he hasn't.

Umm, yes he has...the guy has already received almost half of his contract.

Aren't most rookie contracts signed before the player plays an actual down?

Isn't that the way that works?

Nice try, that's not what I said....again nice try. I said provide another "trustworthy" link who says Andre was due 21 million dollars in one single year.


Even the ESPN article (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786880) says he was scheduled to make $13 million over the last two years of his rookie deal.

LMAO...wow far cry from the 21 million dollars you said he was due over the coarse of ONE YEAR. (which was what your whole original argument was based on) LOL

Instead, he got a $15 million bonus prorated over 8 years. That's $1.8 million. He was payed $2.825 million for 2007, and 2008 (the two years that were part of his rookie deal (remember, there are still 6 more years after these two). So for 2007& 2008, he was compensated $9.25 million. And some how you don't see where he lost money on the deal?

In 2009, his compensation was pretty much the same. $1.8 million from the bonus, $2.825 million as base pay. $4.625 million. Are you telling me the best WR in the league could not have gotten more than $5 million/year from any other team? The first half of his rookie contract, he was being compensated much closer to $7 million/year.

Strangely enough, if you prorate that bonus over 3 years, and not 8, it comes out to $7.825 million/year, which is in line with what the top receiver should have been making over that time.

I know it is hard for you. But it makes sense, if you can bring yourself to understand the contract restructure was to benefit the team. There had to have been an understanding of some kind that there would be more contract talks, most likely about this time.

LOL, wow...you really are twisting the facts aren't you. LOL I hate to tell you this, but Andre made over 13 million dollars his first two years of his new contract/contract extension (which beats the 13 million that you NOW say he was due in the last two years of his rookie contract)....for the lawyers in the back of the room. The guy didn't have to spare any bread...it was just distributed differently.

b0ng
05-20-2010, 11:40 PM
I too, love gigantic walls of text.

thunderkyss
05-20-2010, 11:56 PM
Umm, yes he has...the guy has already received almost half of his contract.

I'm not denying that. Earlier, you said half. Not almost half... half.

Nice try, that's not what I said....again nice try. I said provide another "trustworthy" link who says Andre was due 21 million dollars in one single year.

Maybe I should have said so... I'm conceding the fact that PFT is less than trustworthy.

LMAO...wow far cry from the 21 million dollars you said he was due over the coarse of ONE YEAR. (which was what your whole original argument was based on) LOL

No, my argument was that Andre lost money on the "new deal" that it wasn't just a restructuring, and that it was a "team friendly" contract.

LOL, wow...you really are twisting the facts aren't you. LOL I hate to tell you this, but Andre made over 13 million dollars his first two years of his new contract/contract extension (which beats the 13 million that you NOW say he was due in the last two years of his rookie contract)....for the lawyers in the back of the room. The guy didn't have to spare any bread...it was just distributed differently.

Ok, I'm going by what the link from ESPN said... they said $13 million over the last two years of his contract. (remember you didn't like PFT)

and the only way he made more than $13 million is if you do not pro-rate the bonus. In which case, he made $20.65 million for the first two years. But if you don't pro-rate the bonus, you're saying he played 2009 for $5.325 million, he'll make $5.8 million in 2010. How do you think that compares to what the top WR in this league gets paid?

& I understand the money being distributed differently. If you agree, that money was from his original deal, then he is basically not getting a bonus, or any guaranteed money for 2009 through 2014.

So, are you basically saying that Andre and his Uncle screwed the pooch on the deal?

I'm thinking Andre and the Texans found a loop hole around the salary cap.

Blake
05-21-2010, 12:54 PM
Andre coming back to work just wreaked the rest of the AFC South's weekend.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7014414.html

http://www.emptythebench.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/andre_johnson.jpg

GuerillaBlack
05-21-2010, 01:11 PM
Geez the state of reporting/radio is bad in this town. Caller on 610 asserts AJ is trying to renegotiate a year on his original contract for the second time and neither guy corrects him.

Has Houston Sports Media always been this bad, and is there any hope for us?

Double Barrel
05-21-2010, 01:16 PM
Umm, apparently you missed the entire basis of the argument.....I'm talking about "great sacrifices" Andre was allowed to rewrite a contract and receive another big pay day. Try again.

It takes two to tango. The team allowed him to do that to their advantage.

I missed nothing. You said "Andre didn't do us any favors contract wise", which is simply not true.

You can argue that a tail is a leg all day, but that doesn't mean the dog has five legs. (props to Abe for the metaphor)

He could of "waited it out", but he didn't......he took the new signing bonus and was happy to take it....until the very next chance where he could grab a new one. Again, when you're signing your 3rd NFL contract in 7 seasons you aren't sacrificing much...the dude got paid and IS GETTING PAID. What is so hard not to understand here. The guy has been paid handsomely.

I never denied that he's getting paid. If you don't think keeping his career in Houston while this franchise builds/rebuilds without success, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm looking at the big picture and you're focusing solely on the money aspect.

Yeah, that's why Scott Boras advised Carlos Beltran to sign with a team that was 20 games under .500 over a team that was in the NLCS, despite offering him almost the same pay... Hmm, nice argument there. :rolleyes:

Regardless of 20/20 hindsight, you just proved my point. Beltran did not sign with the Astros.

b0ng
05-21-2010, 01:20 PM
Has Houston Sports Media always been this bad, and is there any hope for us?

The print media was worlds better when there were two papers in this town. Now that all we have is the Chronicle all of the writers are lazy and the editors really don't care if what they print is factual because they are after the almighty page hit now.

dc_txtech
05-21-2010, 01:26 PM
Andre coming back to work just wreaked the rest of the AFC South's weekend.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7014414.html

http://www.emptythebench.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/andre_johnson.jpg

I never got worked up about it because this was my stance all along.

From the article per AJ;

“You can’t really win against the organization. When you’re under contract, they can hold you to it. It’s up to them to re-do it, give you an extension or whatever. They really don’t have to do anything.

Glad Andre finally figured that out.

J_R
05-21-2010, 07:25 PM
McClain_on_NFL (http://twitter.com/McClain_on_NFL)

Andre Johnson has hired Kennard mcguire as his agent.

thunderkyss
05-21-2010, 07:47 PM
well, now I'm upset with this organization. I wear rose colored glasses under rose colored goggles, in a room with rose colored light bulbs. & they are starting to look cheap, cold and callous to me.

Sounds like they're trying to play hardball, and Andre has to go out and bring in the big guns.

b0ng
05-21-2010, 08:01 PM
well, now I'm upset with this organization. I wear rose colored glasses under rose colored goggles, in a room with rose colored light bulbs. & they are starting to look cheap, cold and callous to me.

Sounds like they're trying to play hardball, and Andre has to go out and bring in the big guns.

I see it more as a referendum on the job that Andre Melton has done (not good).

since02
05-21-2010, 08:03 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7016902.html

"Andre Johnson has hired Houston-based agent Kennard McGuire, according to someone close to the Texans' Pro Bowl wide receiver.

Johnson is unhappy with his contract that has five years remaining and calls for him to make $5.8 million this year.

McGuire recently negotiated receiver Brandon Marshall's four-year, $47.5 extension with Miami that included $23 million guaranteed."



I personally never really liked the way his uncle managed him, the interview with ESPN magazine was the last strike for me.. and with this stunt that he pulled over on AJ this week I bet Andre had to break it down to his uncle...

Rey
05-21-2010, 08:25 PM
What stunt did Andre's uncle pull this week?

Texan_Bill
05-21-2010, 08:37 PM
Who knows? But probably a wise move on AJ's part!!

Family and business - DON'T MIX! (most of the time)

pbat488
05-21-2010, 08:38 PM
I'm guessing his uncle had a lot to do with AJ missing out on the three OTAs.. or at least that's what OP is implying.

NitroGSXR
05-21-2010, 09:02 PM
Who knows? But probably a wise move on AJ's part!!

Family and business - DON'T MIX! (most of the time)

Exactly right.

Good on Andre. Bad on the Texans. Let's see if they can mesh somewhere down the road. Feathers have now been ruffled.

Texan_Bill
05-21-2010, 09:09 PM
Exactly right.

Good on Andre. Bad on the Texans. Let's see if they can mesh somewhere down the road. Feathers have now been ruffled.

I believe Bob "cheap ass McNair" will make sure that Andre will remain a happy Texan for a long while.. :cow:

thunderkyss
05-21-2010, 09:18 PM
I see it more as a referendum on the job that Andre Melton has done (not good).

Same thing... Andre in good faith restructured his contract to free up more than $6 million for the 2007 & 2008 salary cap... and now he has to twist arms to get a new deal in an uncapped year??

Bullcaca

drewmar74
05-21-2010, 09:23 PM
I believe Bob "cheap ass McNair" will make sure that Andre will remain a happy Texan for a long while.. :cow:

Yes, TB, yes.... embrace the cow

:cow: :cow: :cow:

Come over to the dairy side.....

Texan_Bill
05-21-2010, 09:29 PM
Yes, TB, yes.... embrace the cow

:cow: :cow: :cow:

Come over to the dairy side.....

Oh no you di'int!!! I will never accept :cow: ;)

mattieuk
05-22-2010, 02:24 AM
He's following the DeMecy Ryans 'how to get a contract from the Texans 101' book down to the tee.

Great to see him back now, and with some proper representation.

beerlover
05-22-2010, 04:36 AM
what is his actual market value?

CloakNNNdagger
05-22-2010, 06:39 AM
Thread should be properly renamed "Andre Johnsonfinally gets an agent."

BigBull17
05-22-2010, 09:20 AM
what is his actual market value?

WHen you get to guys who are the best at their position in the game, it gets hard to determine. His value is really high.

infantrycak
05-22-2010, 09:25 AM
Same thing... Andre in good faith restructured his contract to free up more than $6 million for the 2007 & 2008 salary cap... and now he has to twist arms to get a new deal in an uncapped year??

Bullcaca

Great so now we have people pissed that the Texans are considering redoing his deal and people pissed that the Texans haven't redone the deal fast enough.

Oh look, it's the off-season.

CloakNNNdagger
05-22-2010, 09:40 AM
You must have an experienced agent when dealing with money like this. This situation reminds me of the Dr. Evil segment in the Austin Powers film The Spy Who Shagged Me. Watch the segment beginning around 2 minutes and ending at 3 minutes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNNj3vKVpHQ&feature=related)

Double Barrel
05-22-2010, 02:33 PM
Great so now we have people pissed that the Texans are considering redoing his deal and people pissed that the Texans haven't redone the deal fast enough.

Oh look, it's the off-season.

And don't forget the sub-categories of folks that lost a little respect for AJ, folks that lost a lot of respect for AJ, and the third group that could give a rat's ass because it's just business.

Ahhh, the off-season, when mountains are made out of molehills.

Carr Bombed
05-22-2010, 04:03 PM
Regardless of 20/20 hindsight, you just proved my point. Beltran did not sign with the Astros.

??? How the heck did I "just prove your point", you were talking about how if he has a shark of a agent like Boras...we would advise Andre to get off a losing team and sign with a contender...when Scott Boras did the complete opposite.

I didn't prove your point at all. Scott Boras doesn't care about getting his players to winning clubs. He would send them to absolutely horrible teams if they ponied up enough care. The money is all he cares about.

Double Barrel
05-22-2010, 04:29 PM
??? How the heck did I "just prove your point", you were talking about how if he has a shark of a agent like Boras...we would advise Andre to get off a losing team and sign with a contender...when Scott Boras did the complete opposite.

I didn't prove your point at all. Scott Boras doesn't care about getting his players to winning clubs. He would send them to absolutely horrible teams if they ponied up enough care. The money is all he cares about.

O.K., I'm typing really slow so that you can follow...

My point: a "shark agent" would have probably told AJ to get off this team and get the most money possible.

Point Result: We lose AJ.

The Scott Boras blast was a joke. You know, a Houston fan understanding kind of cynicism joke. I did not mean to imply that AJ's situation was the same as Beltran's. Again, the point was that a shark agent would have told him to go for the most money possible and we would have lost AJ. THAT was my point. Blink twice if you comprehend me.

My statement was not even directed at you. It was a reply to Nitro's post:

Then Andre's a friggin' moron. Hiring a bonafide shark ain't all that hard considering his earning potential.



If he had a shark for an agent *cough*ScottBoras*cough*, he would have advised AJ to get off the loser team and sign with a championship caliber team that would compensate him, as well (Indy, NE).

I'm glad he doesn't have a shark for an agent as a Texans fan. :shades:

I am sorry that my Scott Boras blast flew over your head and distracted you from what I was attempting to say. I say attempting because I obviously failed to get it across to the peanut gallery.*

Do you think a shark agent would have advised AJ to extend his rookie contract? If so, by definition, he would not be a shark agent.

p.s. The Mets went to the 2006 NLCS, so it's not like they were a crappy team when Beltran signed with them. But again, that's beside the point and absolutely not the point.

*not meant as an offense to you in any way, as I've always liked you and have never had a problem with you and don't feel like I've got a problem with you right now. I'm just trying to clarify what I was saying to begin with...taking the time to do so because I like you.

Carr Bombed
05-22-2010, 04:36 PM
O.K., I'm typing really slow so that you can follow...

My point: a "shark agent" would have probably told AJ to get off this team and get the most money possible.

Point Result: We lose AJ.

The Scott Boras blast was a joke. You know, a Houston fan understanding kind of cynicism joke. I did not mean to imply that AJ's situation was the same as Beltran's. Again, the point was that a shark agent would have told him to go for the most money possible and we would have lost AJ. THAT was my point. Blink twice if you comprehend me.

My statement was not even directed at you. It was a reply to Nitro's post:





I am sorry that my Scott Boras blast flew over your head and distracted you from what I was attempting to say. I say attempting because I obviously failed to get it across to the peanut gallery.*

Do you think a shark agent would have advised AJ to extend his rookie contract? If so, by definition, he would not be a shark agent.

p.s. The Mets went to the 2006 NLCS, so it's not like they were a crappy team when Beltran signed with them. But again, that's beside the point and absolutely not the point.

*not meant as an offense to you in any way, as I've always liked you and have never had a problem with you and don't feel like I've got a problem with you right now. I'm just trying to clarify what I was saying to begin with...taking the time to do so because I like you.


Okay, you don't need to type anything slow....you just need to go read what you originally typed

If he had a shark for an agent *cough*ScottBoras*cough*, he would have advised AJ to get off the loser team and sign with a championship caliber team that would compensate him, as well (Indy, NE).

That's not just talking about money.....hence the whole "why the hell did Boras get Beltran off a team that was just in the NLCS to sign with a team that was 20 games under .500". I didn't miss anything that I read and I don't need to read slowly.

I don't think Andre's uncle is a snake......he's done a hell of a job as far as getting Andre money and if a team keeps tossing contracts your way, why wouldn't you keep signing them

BullNation4Life
05-24-2010, 10:06 AM
and don't forget the sub-categories of folks that lost a little respect for aj, folks that lost a lot of respect for aj, and the third group that could give a rat's ass because it's just business.

Ahhh, the off-season, when mountains are made out of molehills.

the offseason in houston: Knee jerk reactions live here!

Ole Miss Texan
05-25-2010, 08:54 AM
“When the time comes for it, it’ll come,” said Johnson, who sat out the first three days of OTAs in an apparent contract dispute. “I’m not pressing anything or anything like that. Hopefully, it’ll all work out.”

“Like I said, I’m not really worried about it,” he said. “I’m out here just trying to work and doing what I need to do to help win a Super Bowl around here. That’s what I’m going to continue to do, and like I said before, if that happens, it’ll happen and it will take care of itself.”
http://www.houstontexans.com/blog/?topic_id=&blogger_id=19

There's our leader. I will go on record and say (not that I or anybody didn't think this before this offseason) that AJ will be a lifelong Texan. I feel confident we won't restructure his deal right now but I do think it will get done maybe in the next year or two. The 2nd quote is exactly why he'll be in Houston until he retires. That is as long as Kubiak & Smith are running the show - they reward players like this, especially one of AJ's calibre. If K&S get canned down the road, my fear would be some hot shot dumb*ass new coach or GM effs it up (ala Josh McDaniels).

Double Barrel
05-27-2010, 11:12 AM
Okay, you don't need to type anything slow....you just need to go read what you originally typed

ahh, you got me. My intended point obscured by a bad attempt at a cynical joke. What can I say. :rolleyes:

I still don't understand why your peepee is so hurt because of business between a player and a franchise that has not caused any negative effect with either party or any players and coaches. But, it's not really for me to understand, I suppose. America: the land of the free and the right to have a hurt peepee.

CloakNNNdagger
05-28-2010, 10:34 PM
An entertaining article worth reading in its entirety, geared to the AJ situation. JERRY MCGUIRE-SHOW ME the MONEY. (http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/20100528375/2010-archives/may/andre-johnson-qshow-me-the-moneyq.html)

Andre Johnson is a lot like a lot of us. We pinch our pennies and save anywhere we can, especially in today's economy. However, sometimes we try so hard to save that it actually costs us money. How many of you have a mom or grandma that will spend an extra $10 dollars in gas to save $ 5 dollars going to different stores to buy groceries or household goods? Well, that is what Andre Johnson did when he negotiated his contract. That's right, when HE negotiated his contract. He used his Uncle as an advisor so that he could save the agent fee.

In the NFL, an agent is limited to 3% of the contract. That is right, 3%. So Johnson was trying to save 3% of the most important contract he has ever signed in his life. Not a smart move and I believe he realizes that now that he has 5 years remaining on his contract and with only an average of $7 million a year coming to him.

While $7 million per year would be akin to hitting the lottery for most of us, consider that fact that Larry Fitzgerald just signed a 4 year 40 million dollar contract in 2008 that guarantees him 75% of the contract. Fitz also walked away from the closing table with a small signing bonus check of $ 15 million to go have some fun with. Fitzgerald's contract makes Andre Johnson clearly under paid.

This offseason however Johnson's status as the best receiver in the game was overshadowed once again by another player signing a more lucrative contract then his. Brandon Marshall who was traded to the Dolphins is no getting over 10 million a year and not paying any State sales tax in Florida increasing his net by an approximate additional $700,000 per year on average.


Johnson has obviously learned his lesson the hard way. CONFUSIOUS SAY:

"When you are in the position to make the largest contract of your short NFL career, you shouldn't use big Momma or your Uncle Melton, to get your deal done. Hire the best sports agent available to negotiate your deal for you and pay him the 3% with a smile on your face."

NFL players, let this be life's lesson for the day......

Now NFL players....., if you will please turn open your textbooks and turn to page 29 titled, "Shit Happens, Players Get Hurt." This chapter is about why Leon Washington should have signed a guaranteed extension with the Jets before the 2009 season, instead of holding out for more on the open market after the season upon the conclusion of the season and risk getting hurt (which is what happened).........

Imatexanfan
06-01-2010, 06:25 PM
Aw man I know how he feels...to an extent. I never lost on millions but hundreds...that's another story, just call my car dealership and they'll give you the the reason why. lol

thunderkyss
06-01-2010, 07:59 PM
I don't know if AJ has lost on anything.... yet. If he gets a new deal now, then he'll have essentially played the last three at $10M/yr... If he gets a new deal next year, it's a little under $9M/yr...

However, if he plays out the rest of his contract, 8 years $60M, it would work out to $7.5M/yr.

m5kwatts
06-03-2010, 07:23 PM
Interesting write up on Andre's deal and what would have happened if he never signed that extension in 2007.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AsJgKoWMV8XWE.L7Ag51RrpDubYF?slug=jc-directsnap060310

“Andre Johnson is the one guy who could have [gotten more per year] than Larry Fitzgerald at that point,” a prominent agent said, referring to what could have happened if Johnson had waited. “The funny part is we actually had his contract used against us in one negotiation. The team said, ‘Your guy isn’t as good as Andre Johnson and look at his contract.’ ”

The bottom line is this, if Johnson had been patient, he could have hauled in more than $104 million over the same 12 years where he stands to make $81.71 million. And that’s if he stays healthy all the way through. Under the more patient scenario, nearly $70 million of that would have been guaranteed.

b0ng
06-03-2010, 09:56 PM
I am totally shocked to find out that a sports agent would think AJ's contract was bad.

m5kwatts
06-03-2010, 10:04 PM
I am totally shocked to find out that a sports agent would think AJ's contract was bad.

If by bad you mean under market value then I ask you why would you be shocked? Its clearly not a market value deal in comparison to other contracts especially Brandon Marshall's new deal.

GP
06-03-2010, 10:13 PM
I don't know if AJ has lost on anything.... yet. If he gets a new deal now, then he'll have essentially played the last three at $10M/yr... If he gets a new deal next year, it's a little under $9M/yr...

However, if he plays out the rest of his contract, 8 years $60M, it would work out to $7.5M/yr.

Since there was a thread entitled "To all the Bob McNair is cheap crowd," let me ask this: Does anyone think the Texans screwed AJ over, knowing full well that his asking price on the previous contract was a great bargain for the Texans when it was all said and done?

In short: McNair and his accountants pee'd themselves silly when AJ and his uncle agreed to the contract. That team of employees surely knew that he was going to "outplay" his contract. Yet it was a deal that was struck.

Takes two to do the Texans Two-Step. Does he have great agent representation? Apparently not. But now that leaves McNair and his pencil pushers left with fingerprints on the knife.

b0ng
06-04-2010, 08:16 AM
Michael "5K" Watts: I've been saying this whole thread that AJ's contract was not his market value. That was just a sarcastic response to an agent parroting my thoughts.

GP is right (effin cellphone that won't let me quote). I'm sure when AJ signed that dotted line McNair and Smith both fistbumped each other and began discussing how shrewd they were over a case of Natty Ice. A real agent would've probably gotten a contract done that had a higher percentager of guaranteed money with a higher total value as well.

thunderkyss
06-04-2010, 09:06 AM
I'm sure when AJ signed that dotted line McNair and Smith both fistbumped each other and began discussing how shrewd they were over a case of Natty Ice. A real agent would've probably gotten a contract done that had a higher percentager of guaranteed money with a higher total value as well.

At the end of the 2005 season, there was no doubt who was the best receiver in the league. He had led the league in receiving yards, receptions, and touchdowns. Becoming only the third player in league history to ever do so in the same year.

Steve Smith couldn't get a contract done, the Panthers made him wait. Jake Delhomme had a bad year in 2006, causing Smith's numbers to suffer. While he didn't lead the league, his numbers still showed the consistency, the panthers needed to see. They inked a deal with the Tiny Terror in May 2007, effectively a 3 year contract extension, locking the receiver up through the 2012 season. The contract totaled $38 million (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2863667). I can't find what the guaranteed money was.

But I don't remember anyone at the time saying that Johnson was screwed, when he signed an extension for $60 million that same year. The biggest "concern" was the length of time on the contract. Steve Smiths contract covered a total of 6 years... $38 million. Andre's locked him up for the next 8 years... $60 million.

The only thing, I think an "experienced" agent would have done, would be to have put an option for the team to pick up over the second half of the contract including more guaranteed money, and smaller salaries... he's owed $34 million for the remaining 5 years of the Contract, to be paid in increasing annual salaries. (contracts structured this way are usually done so to "force" management to renegotiate the later years). Another $15 million bonus with a little more than $3million salaries for the remaining 5 years would have been "fair" back then.

Now, I'd like to see $20 million with a little less than $3 million.

It would work out to the same money he agreed to play for in 2007. He would just get more of it up front.

He made a commitment to the Texans 3 years ago, now it's their turn to do the same.

gary
06-04-2010, 08:03 PM
Those would be wonderful points to make in a contract negotiation … if Johnson didn’t have five years left on his current deal. He could even use those points to counter the negativity of a holdout if Johnson was playing serious hardball with the Texans by not showing up for offseason work at all. However, Johnson has been far from disruptive. Instead, he missed three days of workouts this offseason, showed up to tell management he wasn’t happy and then went back to work with his teammates.

He did that even after Melton hinted to the media that Johnson was going to play rough with the Texans.

“My uncle may have said some things about what he thought I should do, but that didn’t come from me,” said Johnson, who led the league with 1,569 receiving yards last season.

Johnson’s body language demonstrated that he was clearly uncomfortable with the idea of holding out. The idea goes against his very nature. But Johnson, 28, is also frustrated with his contract, a deal which likely will cover the rest of his most productive seasons. By the time it expires after the 2014 season, Johnson will likely be playing out the string of his career if he’s even able to do that.

“When I missed the first days [of offseason work], everybody has their own opinion like, ‘He’s greedy and this and that.’ They don’t know the whole story, they haven’t been here, so it’s something you just have to understand,” said Johnson, the third overall pick in the 2003 NFL draft. “The crazy thing about it – and this is why I say people don’t know what was going on – when I signed the contract [extension in 2007], all you heard is, ‘He’s a great guy, he’s a team player, he restructured his deal to bring other people in.’

“But now, when I ask for a restructured contract, ‘He’s greedy, he’s a diva, he’s this.’ Everybody flips on me.”

For the Texans, this is clearly an uncomfortable subject. They have a great player who is dissatisfied. Criticizing Johnson in any way would come off as bad PR.

“I want to make something clear, this is not me against Andre Johnson,” Houston general manager Rick Smith said. “Andre is a great player and person in every way.”

But …

“We didn’t give Andre a new contract [in 2007] to create cap space so we could sign free agents. We did it because he wanted more money,” Smith said.

OK, the problem is that Johnson didn’t really get a lot more than if he had played out the old deal – certainly not enough to make up for the risk of playing out his first contract.

Here’s the breakdown: As a rookie, Johnson signed a six-year, $39 million deal, which was pretty much in line with the market at the time. Then again, most rookie contracts are essentially slotted deals and the Texans were aggressive about giving Johnson a deal to get him signed on time for camp.

Where things went wrong was after the first four years of that deal in the 2007 offseason. By that time, according to NFL Players Association figures, Johnson had earned $21.71 million and had two years left on his rookie deal. He would have made $8.35 million in 2007 and again in 2008 for a total of $38.41 million over the first six years of his contract.

That also would have made Johnson a free agent or franchise player in the 2009 offseason. By then, fellow wide receivers Larry Fitzgerald(notes) (four years, $40 million) and Roy Williams (six years, $54 million) had already signed lucrative extensions.

But instead of playing out the final two years and getting leverage that comes with being a free agent or franchise player, Johnson signed a new deal in March 2007, adding six years to his original contract.

The result was basically an eight-year deal worth $60 million. If all goes well, Johnson, who is the only other receiver under 30 who ranks with Fitzgerald, will earn a total of $81.71 million over 12 years, which is basically his whole career.

Now, there’s nothing terribly wrong with that sum, but here’s the problem: Based on what Fitzgerald and Williams signed for, it’s not absurd to believe that Johnson easily could have made more than $10 million per year if he had waited. A six-year, $66 million contract, including $32 million or so guaranteed, could easily have been had.

“Andre Johnson is the one guy who could have [gotten more per year] than Larry Fitzgerald at that point,” a prominent agent said, referring to what could have happened if Johnson had waited. “The funny part is we actually had his contract used against us in one negotiation. The team said, ‘Your guy isn’t as good as Andre Johnson and look at his contract.’ ”

The bottom line is this, if Johnson had been patient, he could have hauled in more than $104 million over the same 12 years where he stands to make $81.71 million. And that’s if he stays healthy all the way through. Under the more patient scenario, nearly $70 million of that would have been guaranteed.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlnXGfX.k8QJEnYLAPmbLMJDubYF?slug=jc-directsnap060310

J_R
07-27-2010, 04:15 PM
Take this for what it's worth and make of it what you will. Could be something, could be nothing.

Posted this on the other board but:

(Posted this last week, she was on First Take last week)

Charean Williams of the Star-Telegram says Johnson could hold out of TC and her source says dont be surprised if he does. She didnt say it exactly as this but holding out would be his only way to get his point across. OTOH, she also says they are working on a deal that would make him the highest paid reciever but things are difficult(regarding or in terms of a new CBA and things like that).


John McClain weighs in:

The Houston Chronicle's John McClain hinted in a blog post Saturday that the Texans aren't necessarily out of the woods in regard to Andre Johnson's contract situation.
"I'm not convinced the Andre Johnson contract situation couldn't get ugly," wrote McClain. "When I see Johnson on the field on Friday, I'll be convinced." While GM Rick Smith is working on getting Johnson a new deal, it doesn't sound like A.J. is a lock to report on time for training camp. Of course, Johnson would risk hefty daily fines by skipping practices.


http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=1575&line=175995&spln=1


I don't see general manager Rick Smith having problems getting his draft choices signed. I'm not convinced the Andre Johnson contract situation couldn't get ugly. When I see Johnson on the field on Friday, I'll be convinced.


http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2010/07/its_going_to_be_a_fun_ride_wat.html

disaacks3
07-27-2010, 04:19 PM
AJ is one of the few players that I'm not too worried about whether he misses any / all of TC. Even IF a new deal isn't reached, he won't risk missing a gameday paycheck. I doubt he'd be classless enough to cause much of a distraction.

GuerillaBlack
07-27-2010, 10:40 PM
AJ missing some of training camp doesn't bother me. Dude has been there, done that, and has good chemistry with Schaub already. Though, I'd like him out there to push Kareem more. Not to mention its good to have your players at TC anyway.

El Tejano
07-27-2010, 10:47 PM
It bothers me a little when I know I have a young Jacoby Jones that has yet to show the professionalism that Andre has, and a Dorin Dickerson and Trendell Holiday that need to see the big man at work.

Lucky
07-27-2010, 10:51 PM
AJ missing some of training camp doesn't bother me. Dude has been there, done that, and has good chemistry with Schaub already.
There was a lot of rumbling regarding Dunta's missing camp last season (not a holdout, he wasn't signed). They may have been right, as Robinson was not good out of the box versus the Jets. AJ could be a little rusty if he skips camp.

Besides, it's just a distraction this team doesn't need. This needs to be fixed sooner, rather than later. It's Rick Smith's job to figure out how that happens.

The Pencil Neck
07-27-2010, 10:56 PM
Besides, it's just a distraction this team doesn't need. This needs to be fixed sooner, rather than later. It's Rick Smith's job to figure out how that happens.

Of all the guys on our team, this is the one guy we should make sure is happy. Not necessarily because of his production or his beastliness, but because of his professionalism.

El Tejano
07-27-2010, 11:58 PM
If he holds out again, then the whole holding out and coming back thing during OTAs was to cover Brian Cushing's drama. I'm still thinking of the interview where he said he never really wanted to hold out and that these things work themselves out.

thunderkyss
07-28-2010, 09:07 AM
There was a lot of rumbling regarding Dunta's missing camp last season (not a holdout, he wasn't signed). They may have been right, as Robinson was not good out of the box versus the Jets. AJ could be a little rusty if he skips camp.


Apples and Oranges. AJ is coming off the best season of his career. Dunta was still trying to get back to his pre-injured norm. Which was also apples to AJ's oranges. AJ is what? a 3 time Pro-Bowler? Dunta was a pro-bowl "calibre" player.

I'm not taking the side that it's no big deal if AJ misses camp. I don't believe that. I'm just saying two totally different scenarios.


But there is a lot of unknowns right now. Is Richard Smith trying to make AJ the highest paid wide Receiver? If so, why is this thing not signed yet? Is he trying to extend AJ another 3 years past the existing 5? Another 5 years? If so, why would AJ have a problem with it?

If AJ doesn't show up at TC, after his OTA ordeal, we will know something is terribly wrong.

thunderkyss
07-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Of all the guys on our team, this is the one guy we should make sure is happy. Not necessarily because of his production or his beastliness, but because of his professionalism.

I don't know about that. I believe the team is bigger than one guy.


But, I do agree with paying the man, even though he has 5 years left on his current deal. He's led the NFL in Receiving yards 2 years in a row, top five in receptions 2 years in a row. Gives you 110% every game. Doesn't cause Drama in the locker room or out on the streets. He's the perfect player, and we should be encouraging our younger guys to be more like him.

If we have a bunch of players all of a sudden wanting a new contract every time we turn around, and they point to Andre as their precedence, I would have no problem pointing right back at Andre, and saying, "you are no Andre Johnson."

TimeKiller
07-28-2010, 09:50 AM
:money: him.

b0ng
07-28-2010, 10:25 AM
So if AJ is at TC on Friday, does that mean McClain should be fired?

e: trick question, he should've been fired a long time ago.