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View Full Version : Cushing retains AP ROY after re-vote


blitz90
05-12-2010, 02:30 PM
per Houston Chronicle's and The General's twitter account...



ChronicleTexans BREAKING NEWS: Texans LB Cushing retains AP Defensive Rookie of the Year award


McClain_on_NFL Brian Cushing retain his NFL Rookie of the Year Award with 18 votes in the AP revote. He got 39 the first time.

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 02:32 PM
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahahahahahah ah

aaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha!


hahaha


HAH!

TheDrifter
05-12-2010, 02:33 PM
LOL

Fantastic.

I hope Byrd's teammates head explodes over it. :-D

AnthonyE
05-12-2010, 02:34 PM
per Houston Chronicle's and The General's twitter account...



ChronicleTexans BREAKING NEWS: Texans LB Cushing retains AP Defensive Rookie of the Year award


McClain_on_NFL Brian Cushing retain his NFL Rookie of the Year Award with 18 votes in the AP revote. He got 39 the first time.


Wow at the loss of 21 votes. But I'm really glad he kept the award. I guess the media isn't as dumb as people thought. Maybe.

And this was simply great timing by me to log in. I'm at school right now, and was only going to be on for like 7 minutes.

blitz90
05-12-2010, 02:34 PM
ChronicleTexans: Cushing received 18 votes compared to 13 for Buffalo safety Jairus Byrd

drs23
05-12-2010, 02:35 PM
YEAH! Good on the ones that didn't change thier minds.

drewmar74
05-12-2010, 02:37 PM
Sweeeeeettttttttt.

Of course, it doesn't make me feel any better about 56 not being on the field for games 1 thru 4, but hey, I'll take it.

ChampionTexan
05-12-2010, 02:37 PM
Glad he kept it. This whole thing was still an incredibly stupid exercise overall.

blitz90
05-12-2010, 02:37 PM
From the AP

That revote gave Cushing 18 votes from a nationwide panel of 50 sports writers and broadcasters who cover the league. Buffalo safety Jairus Byrd received 13 votes, and Green Bay linebacker Clay Matthews III got 10. Washington linebacker Brian Orakpo earned three votes, and St. Louis linebacker James Laurinaitis got one.

Three voters were not available to cast ballots, and two voters abstained.

Rey
05-12-2010, 02:37 PM
This is excellent

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 02:37 PM
Adam Schein: "I originally voted for Brian Cushing. I was disgusted to learn he failed a test for PEDs in September, marring his great rookie season. I was even more disgusted to find out he tested positive for a masking agent for steroids. Upon getting an e-mail from the Associated Press learning there was a needed re-vote, I instantly voted for a totally clean ball player, Brian Orakpo. A player who fails a drug test for a performance enhancing drug shouldn't receive an award."




HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

GuerillaBlack
05-12-2010, 02:38 PM
Hahahahahahaha

This is great. Perfect.

Khari
05-12-2010, 02:38 PM
lucky bastard

BigTimeTexanFan
05-12-2010, 02:40 PM
So what about the All Pro votes? Have they already voted on that too?

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 02:40 PM
On top of everything they basically just embarassed Matthews, Orakpo, and Byrd by doing this. I wonder how those players feel now, knowing that they didn't beat Cushing even after he failed a drug test. LOL.

Freaking stupid-ass AP.

HOU-TEX
05-12-2010, 02:40 PM
I can't help but think how moronic this makes the AP look. Good grief!

Austrian
05-12-2010, 02:41 PM
Lol. That's great. LOl at Peter King.

AnthonyE
05-12-2010, 02:42 PM
LOL

Fantastic.

I hope Byrd's teammates head explodes over it. :-D

LOL, I really want to read some transcripts of interviews if they touch on this subject. Especially Donte Whitner's response, since he was the first one who brought this up in the first place.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-12-2010, 02:42 PM
I bet Peter King is fuming right now considering he seemed to be heading up this cause.

blitz90
05-12-2010, 02:42 PM
I hope that pompous Peter King spilled his $20 starbucks coffee all over his crotch when he heard this. LOL

BIG TORO
05-12-2010, 02:43 PM
Cushing is the DROY!!!!!!!!!!!

This really made my day!

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 02:44 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

IDEXAN
05-12-2010, 02:46 PM
So then apparently John McClain voted 18 times ? I didn't realize McClain was from Chicago ?

Rey
05-12-2010, 02:47 PM
I wonder what Whitner thinks about this

AnthonyE
05-12-2010, 02:48 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

I'm guessing it's because one of our players won an award. I'm pretty sure we were celebrating like this (or at least I was) when he won it the first time.

Another reason is that this is one of the very few bright spots in this whole incident.

TexansBlood
05-12-2010, 02:49 PM
He failed a test in September but passed all the other ones during the season. Good job Cushing you deserve it!

HuttoKarl
05-12-2010, 02:49 PM
We've got the first 2 time AP Defensive Rookie of the Year winner!

Congrats again to the Cush-hawk.

Kaiser Toro
05-12-2010, 02:53 PM
Sure, it is a nice piece of hardware for him to retain, but there was no real monetary value to it. This re-vote, as silly as it was, does nothing to recoup the four game miss.

Thorn
05-12-2010, 02:55 PM
I wonder what Whitner thinks about this

I said it in the other thread, I'll say it in this one, Whitner can kiss my ass. LOL

The Cush rules.


hahahahahahahaha

dc_txtech
05-12-2010, 02:56 PM
We've got the first 2 time AP Defensive Rookie of the Year winner!

Congrats again to the Cush-hawk.

Quit stealing my thoughts! :hurrah::whip:

valleytexfan
05-12-2010, 02:58 PM
I hope that pompous Peter King spilled his $20 starbucks coffee all over his crotch when he heard this. LOL

Classic. rep

HOU-TEX
05-12-2010, 02:58 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

Honestly, to me this award doesn't compare to what the 4 games he's going to miss. I'd much rather he be eligible to play than get this award. After this BS the AP pulled to get a revote kinda changes my outlook on this award anyway.

That said, I think he deserved the award over the other players nominated either way. I understand he roided (allegedly) during the offseason and was coming off a cycle going into the season. Which obviously gives him an advantage over the others that are presumably clean. I just think the difference in performance between Cush and the other players was just too significant to surpass.

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 03:04 PM
The AP backed themselves into a corner and would have had a shitestorm had this played out any other way. How are you going to re-vote on one player who got hit with a 4 game ban but you didn't the same thing to a player that was suspended the last 4 games of the year and STILL won the award?

Julius Peppers ring a bell?

They should have never gotten on their moral soapbox and left it as is. Now they have even more egg on their face than when they first announced this...

Hypocrisy seems to be the media's second language....

Coach Kevin
05-12-2010, 03:04 PM
I like it, i like it, i like it

TheDrifter
05-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Honestly, to me this award doesn't compare to what the 4 games he's going to miss. I'd much rather he be eligible to play than get this award. After this BS the AP pulled to get a revote kinda changes my outlook on this award anyway.


Exactly. Of course I rather have him there for those 4 games. Im just amused 18 voters stuck it to Dante Whiner and SI's Peter King (who Ive often considered a blowhard who works for a bias publication.)

GP
05-12-2010, 03:08 PM
I nailed it. Good job, GP. (Pats self on back, repeatedly).

Fewer votes, but the true winner retains his award.

Adam Schein was a HUGE Texans backer. I bet now he will find every reason to transition into a Texans hater because of this. Ditto for the other pseudo-intellectuals who switched their vote to try and look so suave and nuanced. Playing the popularity game...pffft!!!

And, as I also predicted (but have not been able to confirm yet) Baird and the others are going to reach new levels with their whining and trash talk. Expect it to be a constant media theme for the remainder of this week.

I think Ben Roethlisberger's agents are the ones who cooked up the Lawrence Taylor and Brian Cushing events. What a stroke of genius. Nobody even knows Ben's name today. LOL. :hurrah:

GP
05-12-2010, 03:09 PM
On top of everything they basically just embarassed Matthews, Orakpo, and Byrd by doing this. I wonder how those players feel now, knowing that they didn't beat Cushing even after he failed a drug test. LOL.

Freaking stupid-ass AP.

Don't ever say I never rep'd you. Just sent you positive rep. :butterfly:

See, we CAN agree on something. Really enjoyed your post on this.

BIG TORO
05-12-2010, 03:10 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

It's like this, to alot of us the Texans are like family, even if little brother gets in trouble you still love and want the best for little brother. The Texans are our nfl family and no matter what whe are gonna love them and we want the best for them.

Nawzer
05-12-2010, 03:10 PM
Lol! Congrats to Cushing on winning the same award twice! Add that to the resume. Take that Jealous Byrd and all the other haters!

Thorn
05-12-2010, 03:10 PM
Exactly. Of course I rather have him there for those 4 games. Im just amused 18 voters stuck it to Dante Whiner and SI's Peter King (who Ive often considered a blowhard who works for a bias publication.)

The only time I read SI is when I'm waiting on a doctor or a haircut or something and I find a copy of it in the waiting room. Even a year old copy of SI is better than Better Homes and Gardens. LOL

Dutchrudder
05-12-2010, 03:11 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

It's a consolation prize for all of us. Our guy retained his award that he earned last year, so we can be happy to have a second(third?) DROY in our team's 9 year history. Little victories are still victories! :D

TheDrifter
05-12-2010, 03:13 PM
The only time I read SI is when I'm waiting on a doctor or a haircut or something and I find a copy of it in the waiting room. Even a year old copy of SI is better than Better Homes and Gardens. LOL

LOL

I just expressed the same sentiment to my father last night!

Even the...ugh...baseball issues.

HOU-TEX
05-12-2010, 03:14 PM
He did, however, lose his 2nd team All-Pro status.

Cushing did lose his spot on the All-Pro second team, for which he originally had five votes and now has just one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5183620

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 03:14 PM
It's like this, to alot of us the Texans are like family, even if little brother gets in trouble you still love and want the best for little brother. The Texans are our nfl family and no matter what whe are gonna love them and we want the best for them.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't get the award or that people shouldn't want him him to have it. As I said, the revote at least legitimizes it instead of people talking about doing a revote. I just think it is a little over the top top to start "facing" sportswriters and people. They had an opinion that he shouldn't get it. I don't really think its outlandish. It's a worthy debate. That is all.

Rey
05-12-2010, 03:14 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

Someone associated with Houston, with their back against the wall, wins while simultaneously shoving it up everyone elses collective asses...

That's not a feeling we are used to. Feels kinda good.

GP
05-12-2010, 03:15 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

It's a minor victory. How much does it count? It counts in the sense that we won't ever hear "And then you have Brian Cushing, the FIRST player to have been voted for an award only to have it rescinded by a re-vote." Instead, it will potentially be a bit of a silencer because 18 voters were not swayed by it. Instead of it being a source of media pride (had it been rescinded) now it's something they will want to hush up and move on from. Because it failed.

Oh, I expect a column from Schein and/or King. It's coming. Just gotta' wait for it. They're both composing their essays as we speak. Searching for the nuanced and intellectual view on how such a travesty could have happened. And I suspect their columns MIGHT focus upon the Dirty 18 who kept their vote for Cushing.

It tells me there are 18 voters who still can't determine (within reasonable doubt) that Cushing failed the test for masking reasons or other reasons.

And the clowns who voted for Clay Mathews amaze me. Hey, you guys DO know that they were buds and teammates at USC? You DO know that Clay had an amazing burst of physical size while at USC? Why would you vote for a guy who is certainly a potential violator, as well? Gee whiz, just cast your votes for Baird and be done with it. But to cast votes for Mathews? LOL. Wow.

eriadoc
05-12-2010, 03:17 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

Yeah, but it clearly illustrates how stupid the AP is. They rushed to vote on something that they don't have all the info on, won't ever get all the info on, and after they've already given awards to other PED users. It's not an NFL sponsored award, so it doesn't really matter anyway, but it's just fun to see the AP make an ass of themselves.

Well, several voting members of the AP, anyway.

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 03:18 PM
And if your not down with OUR 2 Time DROY award winner, then I got 2 words for ya...

http://media.nj.com/realtimesports_impact/photo/brian-cushing-houston-texans-defensive-rookie-of-year-105jpg-c894996b66df515d_large.jpg


http://data21.sevenload.com/slcom_2/iq/xz/rmipoie/ognmjijkheih.jpg~/Dx-chop-cartoon-wallpaper-preview.jpg

eriadoc
05-12-2010, 03:19 PM
I really hope that becomes part of his resume: "2-time DROY winner". LOL

Ryan
05-12-2010, 03:20 PM
This is comedic gold. Peter King is such a tool. He makes Richard Justice seem intelligent.

MFG16
05-12-2010, 03:20 PM
I can't wait to read what peter king has to say about this. Him and whitner are probably in the same room yelling at the tv or computer screen. also wanna see what Carucci from nfln has to say.

CUSH baby! winning the same award twice!

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 03:21 PM
I'm not saying that he shouldn't get the award or that people shouldn't want him him to have it. As I said, the revote at least legitimizes it instead of people talking about doing a revote. I just think it is a little over the top top to start "facing" sportswriters and people. The had an opinion that he shouldn't get it. I don't really think its outlandish. It's a worthy debate. That is all.

yet did this same debate come up when Julius Peppers was busted and suspended the last 4 games, and STILL won?

The AP shot their mouth off and backed themselves into a hypocritical corner...

Brando
05-12-2010, 03:23 PM
Sweeeeeettttttttt.

Of course, it doesn't make me feel any better about 56 not being on the field for games 1 thru 4, but hey, I'll take it.

It'll keep him fresh for our first playoff run. :)

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 03:24 PM
It's a minor victory. How much does it count? It counts in the sense that we won't ever hear "And then you have Brian Cushing, the FIRST player to have been voted for an award only to have it rescinded by a re-vote." Instead, it will potentially be a bit of a silencer because 18 voters were not swayed by it. Instead of it being a source of media pride (had it been rescinded) now it's something they will want to hush up and move on from. Because it failed.



Yeah GP, that is what I said just above. At least its legitimate. I just think this whole thing was a worthy debate...at least interesting so I don't have animosity towards writers for an opinion. Though there are many blowhards that take it way too seriously.

yet did this same debate come up when Julius Peppers was busted and suspended the last 4 games, and STILL won?

The AP shot their mouth off and backed themselves into a hypocritical corner...

Not really the same. He won with the writers having full knowledge of the situation. He missed 4 games and they gave it to him. All they did here was revote with the same info.

Imatexanfan
05-12-2010, 03:24 PM
Look, the spirit of drug testing is to catch cheaters, fertility drugs are not PEDs. They do not in any way provide anywhere near the boost to qualify as such. This is pure BS. Cushing shouldn't even be suspended for this. Totally ridiculous. Too bad he's not a Colt or a Patriot. If he had been, this whole incident never would have even been reported and that is a fact...:foottap:

GP
05-12-2010, 03:24 PM
yet did this same debate come up when Julius Peppers was busted and suspended the last 4 games, and STILL won?

The AP shot their mouth off and backed themselves into a hypocritical corner...

Yep. I agree.

GP
05-12-2010, 03:26 PM
Yeah GP, that is what I said just above. At least its legitimate. I just think this whole thing was a worthy debate...at least interesting so I don't have animosity towards writers for an opinion. Though there are many blowhards that take it way too seriously.

Those writers are way into themselves.

They can keep players out of the MLB HOF if they want to. Ask Pete Rose!

So today was a bit of pleasantry to see the recall efforts fall short.

I actually expected Cushing to win by an even smaller margin than he did, which is good to know 18 are staying true to their vote. Good for them.

eriadoc
05-12-2010, 03:29 PM
Look, the spirit of drug testing is to catch cheaters, fertility drugs are not PEDs. They do not in any way provide anywhere near the boost to qualify as such. This is pure BS. Cushing shouldn't even be suspended for this. Totally ridiculous. Too bad he's not a Colt or a Patriot. If he had been, this whole incident never would have even been reported and that is a fact...:foottap:

Yeah, that's false. Go read all of CloakNNNDaggers' posts on the subject.

GP
05-12-2010, 03:31 PM
Yeah, that's false. Go read all of CloakNNNDaggers' posts on the subject.

LOL. Rep for most succinct post of the day.

Ckw
05-12-2010, 03:31 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freakin awesome! Look, I am pissed about what Cushing did. As far as we know though, he was clean throughout the season and only failed the one drug test. But the fact is the "re-vote" was asinine, and it was simply the AP trying to make the news. Cushing deserved the award and 18 voters were smart enough to realize that. He screwed up, he will serve his suspension, and he will come back ready to play as mean as ever.

GuerillaBlack
05-12-2010, 03:37 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

What are you trying to say? That we shouldn't be glad that one of our players won the award again, and should instead had hoped that he didn't win the award? Don't get it. And we all know he'll miss four games, no need to put that on repeat in all of your posts about this thing.

It's like this, to alot of us the Texans are like family, even if little brother gets in trouble you still love and want the best for little brother. The Texans are our nfl family and no matter what whe are gonna love them and we want the best for them.

See, real Texans fans know the deal. Rep to you BIG TORO.

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 03:38 PM
Yeah GP, that is what I said just above. At least its legitimate. I just think this whole thing was a worthy debate...at least interesting so I don't have animosity towards writers for an opinion. Though there are many blowhards that take it way too seriously.



Not really the same. He won with the writers having full knowledge of the situation. He missed 4 games and they gave it to him. All they did here was revote with the same info.

I'm sorry, what? So there are degrees of cheating now? The AP knew what Cushing was busted for before this stupid revote and still went through with it. Had they not known, then they are even dumber for making such a knee jerk reaction and trying to make an example out of Cushing.

Banned substance is a banned substance, if you punish one and revoke an award, better do it to all or leave it the hell alone. They avoided a hypocritical nightmare...

BigTimeTexanFan
05-12-2010, 03:42 PM
IMO, the AP comes off looking like idiots. Calling a re-vote as quickly as they did smelled like a knee-jerk reaction that didn't even seem to have the support of the majority of the voters, and now Cushing STILL won.

I think they may have set a precedent that could bite them in the a** in the future. The whole reason they were calling for a re-vote was because "some" voters would not have voted for Cush had they known about the positive test. The only reason this happened was because he won in such a landslide.

Now there are three players next time:
Player A receives 21 votes
Player B recieves 20 votes
Player C receives 9 votes, however, reports come out after the award that this player tested positive for PED's during the season (ala the Cushing case)

Will the AP call for a re-vote? Even though Player C didn't win, those voters might have voted for someone else had they known.

So potentially, player A could lose his award even though he did nothing wrong because some of player C's votes went to player B after a re-vote.

Talk about a cluster @#$%

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 03:43 PM
I'm sorry, what? So there are degrees of cheating now? The AP knew what Cushing was busted for before this stupid revote and still went through with it. Had they not known, then they are even dumber for making such a knee jerk reaction and trying to make an example out of Cushing.

Banned substance is a banned substance, if you punish one and revoke an award, better do it to all or leave it the hell alone. They avoided a hypocritical nightmare...

You didn't get it. You are saying the situations were the same like the AP was stupid. They voted for Peppers to win with full knowledge of his misdeeds. I just said the revote wasn't a bad thing because it legitimized Cushings with the AP writers having the same knowledge.

What are you trying to say? That we shouldn't be glad that one of our players won the award again, and should instead had hoped that he didn't win the award? Don't get it. And we all know he'll miss four games, no need to put that on repeat in all of your posts about this thing.

See Top of Page 3

2slik4u
05-12-2010, 03:43 PM
With the re-vote, and all of the new info coming out about this I wonder if there is any chance that the suspension can be overturned. I know they denied his appeal but is it possible to overturn it or am I just being naive?

:spin:

GuerillaBlack
05-12-2010, 03:44 PM
You didn't get it. You are saying the situations were the same. They voted for Peppers to win with full knowledge of his misdeeds. I just said the revote wasn't a bad thing because it legitimized it with the AP writers having the same knowledge.

I see what you're saying, but they said Cushing didn't deserve the award because "he cheated". Then why the hell did Peppers and Merriman both keep their awards? They shouldn't have even been on the ballot if they cheated.

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 03:48 PM
I see what you're saying, but they said Cushing didn't deserve the award because "he cheated". Then why the hell did Peppers and Merriman both keep their awards? They shouldn't have even been on the ballot if they cheated.

Again, I'm not saying they were right to treat the situations differently. They just stayed consistent in final outcomes with the same knowledge.

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 03:49 PM
You didn't get it. You are saying the situations were the same like the AP was stupid. They voted for Peppers to win with full knowledge of his misdeeds. I just said the revote wasn't a bad thing because it legitimized Cushings with the AP writers having the same knowledge.



See Top of Page 3

Oh no I got it and it made even less sense the 2nd time. What they wanted to do was make an example of Cushing and it didn't happen. Had it happened, it would have been a very hypocritical stance the AP would have taken. This came out Monday night about the revote, by Tuesday 2:00pm they knew what Cushing was busted for, probably even sooner, so why go through the revote? Because they backed themselves in a corner trying to make a statement...

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 03:53 PM
Anyone that changed their vote because they assumed that Cushing is taking steroids and the others aren't is full of shit.

Cush tested for hCG, not steroids. There is real evidence that all three of Cushing, Matthews, and Orakpo were using. It's called visual evidence. No doubt in my mind, all three of those guys have juiced in the past couple years.

If you want to "consider all the evidence" and then make an "educated guess" about who is using steroids, all of them fail! Yeah, with Cushing it is just a little bit more probable, but not much. The AP, and the media in general, and most fans, just want to sensationalize and inflate the NFL drug testing program while ignoring what is obvious to anyone paying attention - people in the NFL use PEDs!

I laugh at their foolishness, but I would have laughed just as hard had Orakpo won it and we could all pretend he was "clean". LOLLLLLLLLL.

Watch this and tell me this guy is clean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGUc3UL64f0

False Start
05-12-2010, 03:56 PM
This made my day! :jam: :cool:

Take that Donte Whitner! :lol:

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 04:02 PM
Oh no I got it and it made even less sense the 2nd time. What they wanted to do was make an example of Cushing and it didn't happen. Had it happened, it would have been a very hypocritical stance the AP would have taken. This came out Monday night about the revote, by Tuesday 2:00pm they knew what Cushing was busted for, probably even sooner, so why go through the revote? Because they backed themselves in a corner trying to make a statement...

You really don't get it and I'm starting to think you just want to argue or bait. What doesn't make sense? Peppers won DROY in 2002 when he was suspended 4 games. They voted it to him despite being busted. The AP never claimed they wanted to punish Cushing, they only said they wanted to revote. So they revoted with, just like Peppers, the info that Cushing got busted. He still won. Just because King and some other loudmouths wanted it taken away doesn't mean that others felt the same way. In the end Peppers and Cushing still get awards and the AP ends up awarding both with knowledge of the busts. Done.

ChampionTexan
05-12-2010, 04:02 PM
You didn't get it. You are saying the situations were the same like the AP was stupid. They voted for Peppers to win with full knowledge of his misdeeds. I just said the revote wasn't a bad thing because it legitimized Cushings with the AP writers having the same knowledge.





So if it boils down to not an issue of "eligibility" for the award, but simply the lack of knowledge, if next week it turns out that Green Bay discloses that Clay Matthews Jr. played the last 4 games of the season (and the postseason) with a severe injury, and some AP writer decides that if he or she had known about that, Matthews would have gotten their vote, but since the Packers violated NFL policy and didn't disclose it, they didn't know, would anybody in the world expect them to revote on that?

The bottom line on this was that the award was for the 2009 season. Cush was eligible for 16 of 16 games during the season. Every tackle, interception, sack etc. will be a permanent part of his resume. Given that the suspension is a 2010 event, and the award is a 2009 award, I just think it was an exercise in futility to do the revote. Perhaps paradoxically, the only thing that I view as ridiculous as the revote itself is the fact that they allowed themselves such a limited amount of time to do it.

MannyFresh
05-12-2010, 04:03 PM
I wonder what Whitner thinks about this

I'm tweeting his ass...

Yankee_In_TX
05-12-2010, 04:06 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

I was only going to be offended if they stripped the title because of giving awards to other players who got popped.

I think a re-vote is a VERY slippery slope, but I was ok as long as he kept the title.

Ole Miss Texan
05-12-2010, 04:06 PM
What would have made this REALLY funny is if Jarius Byrd would have won the revote and then next week a report surfaces that he failed a drug test last December, testing positive for Marijuana.

So they have another revote and Clay Matthews wins, then a report surfaces that he tested positive for PEDs.

So they have another revote and Brian Orakpo wins, then a report surfaces that he tested positive for PEDs.


AP = :pop:

Ole Miss Texan
05-12-2010, 04:07 PM
I'm tweeting his ass...

YES! Please post the results!!!

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 04:08 PM
So if it boils down to not an issue of "eligibility" for the award, but simply the lack of knowledge, if next week it turns out that Green Bay discloses that Clay Matthews Jr. played the last 4 games of the season (and the postseason) with a severe injury, and some AP writer decides that if he or she had known about that, Matthews would have gotten their vote, but since the Packers violated NFL policy and didn't disclose it, they didn't know, would anybody in the world expect them to revote on that.

The bottom line on this was that the award was for the 2009 season. Cush was eligible for 16 of 16 games during the season. Every tackle, interception, sack etc. will be a permanent part of his resume. Given that the suspension is a 2010 event, and the award is a 2009 award, I just think it was an exercise in futility to do the revote. Perhaps paradoxically, the only thing that I view as ridiculous as the revote itself is the fact that they allowed themselves such a limited amount of time to do it.


Not even in the same ballpark in scenario #1. The player is at issue in Cushing's, not the team and how they handled something. I also never said that the AP was doing the right thing. I said it was a good debate and in the end it legitimizes the award. They got to vote with full knowledge. I understand he is being punished this year (that is a whole different debate on NFL policy and why it took so long) but I think, in the end, you have a case where people can't sit there and ***** about whether he would have received the award if they had known.

eriadoc
05-12-2010, 04:14 PM
So if next week it's revealed that Matthews failed a PED test, will they hold a re-re-vote and give Cush back all those votes from the re-vote? LOL :D

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 04:15 PM
You really don't get it and I'm starting to think you just want to argue or bait. What doesn't make sense? Peppers won DROY in 2002 when he was suspended 4 games. They voted it to him despite being busted. The AP never claimed they wanted to punish Cushing, they only said they wanted to revote. So they revoted with, just like Peppers, the info that Cushing got busted. He still won. Just because King and some other loudmouths wanted it taken away doesn't mean that others felt the same way. In the end Peppers and Cushing still get awards and the AP ends up awarding both with knowledge of the busts. Done.

The AP wanted to make an example out of Cushing. Why the revote when you knew the circumstances? Had Cushing lost this time around, the AP would be even more asinine than they already are. I get that they knew about Peppers before hand and still voted, but a cheat is a cheat, right? Isn't that the sole reason behind the revote? They knew before the revote that what Cushing took was not a steroid, so why go through with the vote again and risk a different outcome?

The AP mounted their high horse before finding out all the details and had to go through with it.

ChampionTexan
05-12-2010, 04:19 PM
Not even in the same ballpark in scenario #1. The player is at issue in Cushing's, not the team and how they handled something. I also never said that the AP was doing the right thing. I said it was a good debate and in the end it legitimizes the award. They got to vote with full knowledge. I understand he is being punished this year (that is a whole different debate on NFL policy and why it took so long) but I think, in the end, you have a case where people can't sit there and ***** about whether he would have received the award if they had known.

And I never said the debate wasn't worth having - just that the revote never should have happened.

Yankee in Texas used the term "slippery slope", and I think that's perfect - this time it was an after the fact suspension - who knows what the next thing some AP hack may think is worthy of a revote.

Maris/Ruth, and Bonds/Aaron are worthy of debate, but that doesn't mean I believe MLB should consider taking away home-runs or reinstate the asterick next to Maris's stats.

GuerillaBlack
05-12-2010, 04:19 PM
This made my day! :jam: :cool:

Take that Donte Whitner! :lol:

Whitner: "there needs to be a re-vote of the DROY award! My man Byrd should have won it the first time, and now it's clear that he should have."

*re-vote happens...Cushing wins again*

Whitner: "Cushing won...again??? Damn! And I still play for the Bills.*

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 04:23 PM
The AP wanted to make an example out of Cushing. Why the revote when you knew the circumstances? Had Cushing lost this time around, the AP would be even more asinine than they already are. I get that they knew about Peppers before hand and still voted, but a cheat is a cheat, right? Isn't that the sole reason behind the revote? They knew before the revote that what Cushing took was not a steroid, so why go through with the vote again and risk a different outcome?

The AP mounted their high horse before finding out all the details and had to go through with it.

You are all over the place here. A cheat is a cheat. What does it matter if they knew it wasn't a steroid or not? It is a mask for steroids. They could vote through yesterday. Even without specifics they knew he was getting 4 games for failing. They voted last year with no knowledge. You ask why revote?Because it lets them decide, like with Peppers, with full knowledge that both guys cheated either during a season or in preparation for that season.

And I never said the debate wasn't worth having - just that the revote never should have happened.

Yankee in Texas used the term "slippery slope", and I think that's perfect - this time it was an after the fact suspension - who knows what the next thing some AP hack may think is worthy of a revote.

Maris/Ruth, and Bonds/Aaron are worthy of debate, but that doesn't mean I believe MLB should consider taking away home-runs or reinstate the asterick next to Maris's stats.

I just never believed it would get that slippery. Even if he loses, which would have pissed people off here, it still only sets a future precedent that they need to vote with full knowledge of suspensions. Even if it looks bad they then have their own bar set.

treduke
05-12-2010, 04:24 PM
watching nfl live on espn(no nfl network screw you time warner) and john clayton and chris mortensen who have ap votes talked about how they voted.
clayton voted for matthews and mort abstained from the re-vote because he was uncomfortable with the recount!

Double Barrel
05-12-2010, 04:24 PM
Is this the same AP that votes for the football hall of fame? If so, they have sucked for years.

eriadoc
05-12-2010, 04:25 PM
watching nfl live on espn(no nfl network screw you time warner) and john clayton and chris mortensen who have ap votes talked about how they voted.
clayton voted for matthews and mort abstained from the re-vote because he was uncomfortable with the recount!

Uhhh, steroids are bad ... mmmmmkay?

BIG TORO
05-12-2010, 04:25 PM
You really don't get it and I'm starting to think you just want to argue or bait. What doesn't make sense? Peppers won DROY in 2002 when he was suspended 4 games. They voted it to him despite being busted. The AP never claimed they wanted to punish Cushing, they only said they wanted to revote. So they revoted with, just like Peppers, the info that Cushing got busted. He still won. Just because King and some other loudmouths wanted it taken away doesn't mean that others felt the same way. In the end Peppers and Cushing still get awards and the AP ends up awarding both with knowledge of the busts. Done.

Now I understant what you were trying to tell me earlier.

markn
05-12-2010, 04:31 PM
Couple of points:

1. The MAJORITY of people who voted for Cushing first time around switched their votes. Without wanting to kill the luv-fest going on in here, this means based on the test results most voters think he's an undeserving cheat.

2. As TC said in her blog, this rushed re-vote is an embarressment to the AP. In their rush to judgement, they increased the likelihood of BC retaining the award. Given a bit of time I think those that objected to Cushing's cheating may have marshalled their votes to a common player thus ensuring BC did not win.

An embarassing mess in which no one wins.

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 04:37 PM
Couple of points:

1. The MAJORITY of people who voted for Cushing first time around switched their votes. Without wanting to kill the luv-fest going on in here, this means based on the test results most voters think he's an undeserving cheat.

2. As TC said in her blog, this rushed re-vote is an embarressment to the AP. In their rush to judgement, they increased the likelihood of BC retaining the award. Given a bit of time I think those that objected to Cushing's cheating may have marshalled their votes to a common player thus ensuring BC did not win.

An embarassing mess in which no one wins.
Ah, collusion in a voting process among the AP, aka cheating, in order to make sure the cheater Brian Cushing doesn't win.

The irony is delicious.

markn
05-12-2010, 04:47 PM
Ah, collusion in a voting process among the AP, aka cheating, in order to make sure the cheater Brian Cushing doesn't win.

The irony is delicious.

I wouldn't put it past them to have done something like that - As I said, no one wins, the AP look like a disorganized lynch-mob and Cushing is a cheat who could cost the Texans a playoff shot by his actions. Happy days.

Texan_Bill
05-12-2010, 04:52 PM
AP Calls for a Re Re-vote on Cushing's DROY award.

NEW YORK -- After a re-vote on Houston Texans linebacker Brian Cushing for The Associated Press NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year award he won in January, Cushing won again with 18 votes. The AP, apparently unhappy with the re-vote results says that there will another re-vote (or Re Re-vote).




































I kid..... :butterfly:

drewmar74
05-12-2010, 05:00 PM
I'm tweeting his ass...

:clap:

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 05:01 PM
I kid..... :butterfly:

could have been worse, could have been a hanging chad....

The1ApplePie
05-12-2010, 05:02 PM
Cushing: "DROTY! **** yeah! Seat at the table! Seat at the table!"

Car windows are head-butted in glory.

Yes, I know I used this lame Latimer "joke" before

GuerillaBlack
05-12-2010, 05:03 PM
Would rep if I could! That was nice Texan_Bill.

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 05:09 PM
Cushing: "DROTY! **** yeah! Seat at the table! Seat at the table!"

Car windows are head-butted in glory.

Yes, I know I used this lame Latimer "joke" before

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lNVxedatlu0/2.jpg

http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/kvJTqnTGSZo/default.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/ryandirte/Lattimer.jpg

BIG TORO
05-12-2010, 05:10 PM
Would rep if I could! That was nice Texan_Bill.

I gottem for you.

Texecutioner
05-12-2010, 05:10 PM
Cush tested for hCG, not steroids. There is real evidence that all three of Cushing, Matthews, and Orakpo were using. It's called visual evidence. No doubt in my mind, all three of those guys have juiced in the past couple years.


I laugh at their foolishness, but I would have laughed just as hard had Orakpo won it and we could all pretend he was "clean". LOLLLLLLLLL.

Got any proof like a failed test that Orakpo wasn't clean?? Or is this more of the 90% guys that you claim are juicing? There is nothing out there to suggest that Orakpo wasn't clean. Just because Cushing failed his test for PED's, it's pretty lame to start calling all of these other players out specifically for being dirty without any real evidence or facts that they did anything wrong like in Cushing's case.

disaacks3
05-12-2010, 05:14 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games. Let's try this simple explanation.

We're NOT happy Cushing was using a banned substance.

Were NOT happy Cushing will be lost for 4 games.

We ARE happy that (technically speaking), Cushing has won the DROY twice.

We ARE happy that the AP, trying to mount this particular high-horse for the first time in their existence, had it blow up in their faces. All the feigned indignity on the part of a few pompous AP writers wasn't enough to outweigh the performance by Cushing.

gtexan02
05-12-2010, 05:18 PM
I guess that just means Cushing is DROTY.

Hmm, irony.

ChampionTexan
05-12-2010, 05:19 PM
I just never believed it would get that slippery. Even if he loses, which would have pissed people off here, it still only sets a future precedent that they need to vote with full knowledge of suspensions. Even if it looks bad they then have their own bar set.

I'll basically go along with the President of the Pro Football Writers Assoc. (and AP voter)

“If I had known in January when we initially voted that Brian Cushing had tested positive for a banned substance, I might not have voted for him,” said Charean Williams of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram and president of the Pro Football Writers of America. “However, Cushing won the award in January, and I don’t feel like we should revise history. I am concerned about the precedent.”

LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-defensiverookierevote)

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 05:23 PM
I'll basically go along with the President of the Pro Football Writers Assoc. (and AP voter)



LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-defensiverookierevote)

yet they knew about Peppers in 02 and still voted for him...hypocrisy..

ChampionTexan
05-12-2010, 05:35 PM
yet they knew about Peppers in 02 and still voted for him...hypocrisy..

How do you know the writer quoted didn't vote for someone else in 2002 for just that reason? All he said was that he might have voted differently.

HOU-TEX
05-12-2010, 05:35 PM
yet they knew about Peppers in 02 and still voted for him...hypocrisy..

According to Beaker, there were different rules then. Considering the public didn't know about the situation until after the season, I'm not sure what his point is, really.

Some people are justifying their opinion that Cushing should keep the award because Julius Peppers was able to keep his despite a four-game suspension in 2002. League rules involving steroids or banned substances have been updated since then. Now, if a player is notified of a positive test and is found guilty during a season, he is ineligible for any weekly awards, annual awards or selection to the Pro Bowl for that season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5182686

HuttoKarl
05-12-2010, 05:36 PM
Let's try this simple explanation.

We're NOT happy Cushing was using a banned substance.

Were NOT happy Cushing will be lost for 4 games.

We ARE happy that (technically speaking), Cushing has won the DROY twice.

We ARE happy that the AP, trying to mount this particular high-horse for the first time in their existence, had it blow up in their faces. All the feigned indignity on the part of a few pompous AP writers wasn't enough to outweigh the performance by Cushing.

Rep.

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 05:36 PM
How do you know the writer quoted didn't vote for someone else in 2002 for just that reason? All he said was that he might have voted differently.

not writer, AP as a whole....

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 05:43 PM
According to Beaker, there were different rules then. Considering the public didn't know about the situation until after the season, I'm not sure what his point is, really.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5182686

from same article Although NFL rules don't apply to the AP vote,

DROY is an AP voted award. You left this part out....this is why the AP is being hypocritical. Peppers award was an AP award, NFL rules wouldn't have applied even if they were implemented back then.

the writer just contradicted himself...

Norg
05-12-2010, 05:43 PM
this hole thing was dumb do u think Cush cares about the award he only cares about one thing winning SUper bowls

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 05:47 PM
this hole thing was dumb do u think Cush cares about the award he only cares about one thing winning SUper bowls

and the 96+ grand he will lose...

HOU-TEX
05-12-2010, 05:48 PM
from same article Although NFL rules don't apply to the AP vote,

DROY is an AP voted award. You left this part out....this is why the AP is being hypocritical. Peppers award was an AP award, NFL rules wouldn't have applied even if they were implemented back then.

the writer just contradicted himself...

I know the AP votes on it and I didn't leave anything out. I simply mentioned what Beaker was talking about. I reckon these assbags try to follow the rules supplied by the NFL. Personally, I don't care either way

awtysst
05-12-2010, 05:50 PM
So does this mean Cush is the first ever 2 time DROY award winner?!

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 05:52 PM
I didn't leave anything out. I simply mentioned what Beaker was talking about. I reckon these assbags try to follow the rules supplied by the NFL. Personally, I don't care either way

my bad man, I apologize, wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers. looking back I stated that wrong. here have one on me...:beer:

HOU-TEX
05-12-2010, 05:55 PM
my bad man, I apologize, wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers. looking back I stated that wrong.

No worries. If you take a look at a few of the comments on that article, Beaker took a beating from a lot of people. Ha, Beaker, what a fairy.

TheRealJoker
05-12-2010, 05:56 PM
The right man wins again :)

BullNation4Life
05-12-2010, 05:59 PM
I'M DA 2-TIME, 2-TIME DEFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THA YEAR! NOW CAN YOU DIG THAT?


http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/brian-cushing-720x350.jpg


SSSSSSSUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

imatexan
05-12-2010, 06:02 PM
Woo!!!

This is the most national attention the Texans have got in a LONG time!

You just better come back strong Cush but I know you will!

b0ng
05-12-2010, 06:04 PM
And with that I will leave you guys with my thought when the whole re-vote thing came around:

"Sports writers are idiots."

b0ng
05-12-2010, 06:22 PM
Interesting (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?177962-Cushing-still-wins-DROY) reading (http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/5/12/1469380/bills-s-byrd-finishes-second-in-ap) material (http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=257201) everywhere (http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2010/5/12/1469351/brian-cushing-still-a-cheater-and).

ChampionTexan
05-12-2010, 06:38 PM
Interesting (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?177962-Cushing-still-wins-DROY) reading (http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/5/12/1469380/bills-s-byrd-finishes-second-in-ap) material (http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=257201) everywhere (http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2010/5/12/1469351/brian-cushing-still-a-cheater-and).

http://www.tomdaughertyorchestra.com/images/ThatsEntertainmentMarquee.jpeg

gg no re
05-12-2010, 06:48 PM
I'm sure this is how most of us are feeling atm

http://i49.tinypic.com/5n1wxt.jpg

Grid
05-12-2010, 06:48 PM
Interesting (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?177962-Cushing-still-wins-DROY) reading (http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/5/12/1469380/bills-s-byrd-finishes-second-in-ap) material (http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=257201) everywhere (http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2010/5/12/1469351/brian-cushing-still-a-cheater-and).

Wow...what a bunch of crybabies. And it looks like only about 1 in 100 of them are aware of the any of the facts surrounding this story.

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 07:12 PM
Got any proof like a failed test that Orakpo wasn't clean?? Or is this more of the 90% guys that you claim are juicing? There is nothing out there to suggest that Orakpo wasn't clean. Just because Cushing failed his test for PED's, it's pretty lame to start calling all of these other players out specifically for being dirty without any real evidence or facts that they did anything wrong like in Cushing's case.

I'm not going to respond to this because, once again, you're putting words in my mouth and/or deliberately misinterpreting at least 3 different points.

Texecutioner
05-12-2010, 07:16 PM
I'm not going to respond to this because, once again, you're putting words in my mouth and/or deliberately misinterpreting at least 3 different points.

What? Are you saying that you didn't not only accuse but state that Orakpo wasn't clean?? You also said that Mathews wasn't either. It seems like every time I ask you to clarify or to prove a statement you've said with some sort of facts or evidence you always come back and accuse me of misinterpreting you or putting words into your mouth.

Let me make sure I didn't make a mistake here.

You wrote:
There is real evidence that all three of Cushing, Matthews, and Orakpo were using. It's called visual evidence. No doubt in my mind, all three of those guys have juiced in the past couple years.

You Wrote:
I laugh at their foolishness, but I would have laughed just as hard had Orakpo won it and we could all pretend he was "clean". LOLLLLLLLLL


Now feel free to correct me, but that looks like you are flat out calling both Mathews and Orakpo a substance abuser, and all I've asked you to do is show me what you have other than your "visual evidence" radar that makes this true.

alphajoker
05-12-2010, 07:17 PM
good to hear he kept the DROY :)

Tailgate
05-12-2010, 07:24 PM
Edit: Also been posted in other thread:

Thomas George of AOL Fanhouse

I spoke with a dozen officials representing a dozen NFL teams on Thursday and did not find one person who thought Cushing should keep the award. I strongly suspect that, across the league, Cushing's peers feel even more strongly in this regard.

One NFL general manager, requesting anonymity, offered this scorching view: "We did our research on him before the draft last year and we concluded he was a chronic steroid user dating back to high school. More than a few people were surprised when he passed the steroid tests at the combine. I think the guy became a pro at masking it, until he was caught. I definitely would have taken my vote back on that award if I had one."

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/05/12/ap-voters-too-easy-on-cushing/

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 07:30 PM
lollllllllllll, i freaking love this thread


It's funny how about 90% of the whiney blogs and threads on other message boards contain lies or misinformation. They all say "he tested positive for steroids" or "he tested positive for a steroid masking agent". Wrong! Fail! Hahahaha. As if people who can't even understand basic facts opinions matter!

gary
05-12-2010, 07:32 PM
Cushing you cheater. A coach/teacher at school had told me Green Tea is on the banned sunstances list for NFL players. Is this true?

CloakNNNdagger
05-12-2010, 07:50 PM
Cushing you cheater. A coach/teacher at school had told me Green Tea is on the banned sunstances list for NFL players. Is this true?

Green tea is not a banned substance........it is a strong antioxidant, which serves no association with performance enhancement..........except that it might force you to brush your teeth harder to avoid them turning green.:spin:

gary
05-12-2010, 07:55 PM
Green tea is not a banned substance........it is a strong antioxidant, which serves no association with performance enhancement..........except that it might force you to brush your teeth harder to avoid them turning green.:spin:I just wanted to ask and see. Thanks.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 08:16 PM
Edit: Also been posted in other thread:

Thomas George of AOL Fanhouse

I spoke with a dozen officials representing a dozen NFL teams on Thursday and did not find one person who thought Cushing should keep the award. I strongly suspect that, across the league, Cushing's peers feel even more strongly in this regard.

One NFL general manager, requesting anonymity, offered this scorching view: "We did our research on him before the draft last year and we concluded he was a chronic steroid user dating back to high school. More than a few people were surprised when he passed the steroid tests at the combine. I think the guy became a pro at masking it, until he was caught. I definitely would have taken my vote back on that award if I had one."

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/05/12/ap-voters-too-easy-on-cushing/

Wow, if there is any truth to that statement, then that's frightening.

LORK 88
05-12-2010, 08:29 PM
Brian Cushing: so good he won the defensive rookie of the year... twice.

thunderkyss
05-12-2010, 09:13 PM
I'm very confused by the sentiments in this thread. It really makes no sense to me.

1) This doesn't take away the fact that he cheated so there is no reason to really celebrate

2) At least the AP gave him the award with more knowledge and it can be legitimized

It really leaves the situation the same. He screwed up and will miss 4 games.

I agree. Brian Cushing cheated. Life as we know it should stop right now.

Now...


Ok, maybe now...

Ah hell, I guess there's still some life worth living.

Texan_Bill
05-12-2010, 09:14 PM
I agree. Brian Cushing cheated. Life as we know it should stop right now.

Now...


Ok, maybe now...

Ah hell, I guess there's still some life worth living.

:lol:

thunderkyss
05-12-2010, 09:21 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freakin awesome! Look, I am pissed about what Cushing did. As far as we know though, he was clean throughout the season and only failed the one drug test.

He screwed up, he will serve his suspension, and he will come back ready to play as mean as ever.

This is the thing for me. I was more worried about the 16 games (maybe 15) he will play after the suspension. Is he going to be that guy we saw making 133 takles 5 sacks, 4 ints.. or whatever it was... or was he going to be the shell that other players became.

I'm thinking if he was clean all year... and wasn't used to give him "an edge" on game day... I think he'll be closer to that beast we know & love.

stingray
05-12-2010, 09:44 PM
I could care less about the Defensive Rookie of the Year award. I care more about the fact that he will miss the first four games. That hurts the Houston Texans. And that pisses me off.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 10:02 PM
I agree. Brian Cushing cheated. Life as we know it should stop right now.

Now...


Ok, maybe now...

Ah hell, I guess there's still some life worth living.

How is saying that Cushing still cheated insinuating that life is over as we know it? That is a stretch at best

This is a football forum and saying that (the fact that Cushing still cheated) is just acknowledging the obvious.


The saddest thing about this whole event is the amount of fans that have completely changed their stance on cheaters and PEDs in general JUST BECAUSE Brian Cushing is a Houston Texan.....it's the dirtiest thing about this whole situation. Imagine the backlash Chris Johnson would have on this board if he was the player in question right now. I can tell you right now...the people giving Cushing the benefit of the doubt and a pass wouldn't be doing so (especially after the season Chris Johnson just had) and would be absolutely killing the guy. That's called hypocrisy.

JB
05-12-2010, 10:10 PM
How is saying that Cushing still cheated insinuating that life is over as we know it? That is a stretch at best

This is a football forum and saying that (the fact that Cushing still cheated) is just acknowledging the obvious.


The saddest thing about this whole event is the amount of fans that have completely changed their stance on cheaters and PEDs in general JUST BECAUSE Brian Cushing is a Texan.....it's the dirtiest thing about this whole situation. Imagine the backlash Chris Johnson would have on this board if he was the player in question right now. I can tell you right now...the people giving Cushing the benefit of the doubt and a pass wouldn't be doing so (especially after the season he just had) and would be absolutely killing the guy. That's called hypocrisy.

Yes, and we are quite good at it...

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 10:12 PM
yes, and we are quite good at it...

:) ....

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 10:15 PM
Edit: Also been posted in other thread:

Thomas George of AOL Fanhouse



http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/05/12/ap-voters-too-easy-on-cushing/

That's pretty bad stuff if true.

HoustonFrog
05-12-2010, 10:18 PM
I agree. Brian Cushing cheated. Life as we know it should stop right now.

Now...


Ok, maybe now...

Ah hell, I guess there's still some life worth living.

It's alot easier if people just skip to page 3 and see the explanation..lol

Also, you're going over the top with my point. I just didn't think the vote was a reason to stick it to anyone since it was a very debatable subject....not too outlandish.:cowboy1:

JB
05-12-2010, 10:18 PM
:) ....

Tried to rep ya man, but the system wouldn't let me...

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 10:19 PM
The saddest thing about this whole event is the amount of fans that have completely changed their stance on cheaters and PEDs in general JUST BECAUSE Brian Cushing is a Texan.....it's the dirtiest thing about this whole situation. Imagine the backlash Chris Johnson would have on this board if he was the player in question right now. I can tell you right now...the people giving Cushing the benefit of the doubt and a pass wouldn't be doing so (especially after the season he just had) and would be absolutely killing the guy. That's called hypocrisy.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but my stance on PEDs in the NFL is steadfast. I think that they should stop all testing, including for recreational drugs. I think PEDs are good for the game, I think the game wouldn't be nearly what it is without them, and I think the enforcement of their PED policy is based on lies, propaganda, and just bullshit in general.

Let the justice system do it's job and catch people doing illegal things if they can. The NFL knows PEDs are too important for the league to crack down on, their whole campaign is based on presenting a PC image to the media by pretending to have a hardline stance and "cracking down" on people that fail their laughable testing policy.

That has nothing to do with Brian Cushing and nothing to do with my own feelings towards steroids, or any other drug, for personal use.

Vinnie
05-12-2010, 10:21 PM
The AP voters got it right twice. They're not as stupid as us fans like to believe.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 10:23 PM
That's pretty bad stuff if true.

Same thing I said...

Wow, if there is any truth to that statement, then that's frightening.


People that get addicted to steriods/HGH/PEDs....it's just as addicting as crack and any other kind of drug. (Not to mention you don't want a player/prospect on your team who's entire football career is directly tied to steriods/HGH/PEDs. I hope to god that Cushing hasn't been on that crap since high school, because if he has......THIS WON'T BE THE LAST TIME WE HEAR OF IT....and next time it won't just be a 4 game suspension.

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 10:27 PM
People that get addicted to steriods/HGH/PEDs....it's just as addicting as crack and any other kind of drug.
Seriously now... is this your personal medical opinion? Because I know that that statement has no basis in fact.

JB
05-12-2010, 10:27 PM
Same thing I said...




People that get addicted to steriods/HGH/PEDs....it's just as addicting as crack and any other kind of drug. (Not to mention you don't want a player/prospect on your team who's entire football career is directly tied to steriods/HGH/PEDs. I hope to god that Cushing hasn't been on that crap since high school, because if he has......THIS WON'T BE THE LAST TIME WE HEAR OF IT....and next time it won't just be a 4 game suspension.

Nope, if there is a next time, it will be at least an 8 game suspension.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 10:30 PM
I can't speak for anyone else here, but my stance on PEDs in the NFL is steadfast. I think that they should stop all testing, including for recreational drugs. I think PEDs are good for the game, I think the game wouldn't be nearly what it is without them, and I think the enforcement of their PED policy is based on lies, propaganda, and just bullshit in general.

Let the justice system do it's job and catch people doing illegal things if they can. The NFL knows PEDs are too important for the league to crack down on, their whole campaign is based on presenting a PC image to the media by pretending to have a hardline stance and "cracking down" on people that fail their laughable testing policy.

That has nothing to do with Brian Cushing and nothing to do with my own feelings towards steroids, or any other drug, for personal use.


This league survived and thrived before cheaters and it would again if PEDs weren't involved in the game. Unlike you I don't think everybody is juicing.

PEDs don't make this league, they just distort the reality of it. If the league was really desperate for ratings all they would have to do is get rid of all the pussified rules that they've passed over the years. That would more then make up for "steroids".

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 10:34 PM
Seriously now... is this your personal medical opinion? Because I know that that statement has no basis in fact.

Umm, really you might want to do some research on that. Maybe not as addictive as crack, but still HIGHLY ADDICTIVE (especially for someone who used them as long as this GM tries to indicate). It becomes like someone who has a eating disorder and "can't get skinny enough". If Cushing has been taking roids since high school like that GM tries to suggest, he's most likely....addicted, sorry.

Steroids ARE ADDICTING, especially if you've been taking them that long....that isn't even debatable.

Lucky
05-12-2010, 10:37 PM
I can't speak for anyone else here, but my stance on PEDs in the NFL is steadfast. I think that they should stop all testing, including for recreational drugs. I think PEDs are good for the game, I think the game wouldn't be nearly what it is without them, and I think the enforcement of their PED policy is based on lies, propaganda, and just bullshit in general.

Let the justice system do it's job and catch people doing illegal things if they can. The NFL knows PEDs are too important for the league to crack down on, their whole campaign is based on presenting a PC image to the media by pretending to have a hardline stance and "cracking down" on people that fail their laughable testing policy.
I think the NFL should stop suspending players who rape or beat women, kill dogs, or commit vehicular homicide. Let the justice system do it's job and catch people doing illegal things...if they can. The best players need to be on the field when they aren't in jail. We fans want the best possible product on the field, regardless of who is doing the producing. Trying to present a "PC" image is laughable. It's not like they are trying to attract families or corporate sponsors.

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 10:39 PM
This league survived and thrived before cheaters and it would again if PEDs weren't involved in the game. Unlike you I don't think everybody is juicing.

PEDs don't make this league, they just distort the reality of it. If the league was really desperate for ratings all they would have to do is get rid of all the pussified rules that they've passed over the years. That would more then make up for "steroids".
Not in this day and age, it wouldn't survive. Many people would stop watching football when they started noticing that those incredible athletes weren't so incredible anymore and started to look more like your average dude at the gym. The entire image of athletes in this country, probably the world, is distorted by steroids and other PEDs. Magazine covers, all the different sports, people at the gym. PEDs of one stripe or another are behind most or all of that.

And keep putting words in my mouth, it really helps your case. Yeah, I think everyone in the NFL is juicing. Man, you burned me hard!!

I never said the league was desperate for ratings. And if you think PEDs distort the reality of the league, well, you must think the reality of the league is the NFL from the 60s. PEDs are reality, dude. That's life. Nothing you or I or anyone else can do about it. The huge guys at the gym, the huge guys on the magazine covers, the huge guys in sports. P E Ds. I've been in the military where I knew tons of guys that used, I've known college players that knew tons of guys that used, I know guys who used with many of their friends in high school, and I know more guys at the gym that use than anything else.

I'm not the one ignoring reality here.

Vinnie
05-12-2010, 10:42 PM
Umm, really you might want to do some research on that. Maybe not as addictive as crack, but still HIGHLY ADDICTIVE (especially for someone who used them as long as this GM tries to indicate). It becomes like someone who has a eating disorder and "can't get skinny enough". If Cushing has been taking roids since high school like that GM tries to suggest, he's most likely....addicted, sorry.

Steroids ARE ADDICTING, especially if you've been taking them that long....that isn't even debatable.

Nice back pedal.

I think it's very debatable. Where does this addiction you claim is so palpable come from? Is it chemical or mental?

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 10:58 PM
I think the NFL should stop suspending players who rape or beat women, kill dogs, or commit vehicular homicide. Let the justice system do it's job and catch people doing illegal things...if they can. The best players need to be on the field when they aren't in jail. We fans want the best possible product on the field, regardless of who is doing the producing. Trying to present a "PC" image is laughable. It's not like they are trying to attract families or corporate sponsors.

The difference being that I don't think drugs should be illegal in the first place, because they don't harm anyone or infringe on anyone's rights. On top of that, the drugs on the NFL ban list aren't even all illegal.

So yeah. I'll let your argument that smoking weed is comparable to vehicular homicide stand on its own merits.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 10:59 PM
Not in this day and age, it wouldn't survive. Many people would stop watching football when they started noticing that those incredible athletes weren't so incredible anymore and started to look more like your average dude at the gym.

LOL, so you say the majority of the NFL isn't using steroids but the game would suffer if they cleaned the game up....ok


The entire image of athletes in this country, probably the world, is distorted by steroids and other PEDs.

read above....again

And keep putting words in my mouth, it really helps your case. Yeah, I think everyone in the NFL is juicing. Man, you burned me hard!!

So if you're going to denounce Brian for using PEDs, you better denounce a lot of the rest of the team too, and say that you want them all to stop using.

Sorry pal, I'm not sticking any words in your mouth that you haven't spoken already...

I never said the league was desperate for ratings. And if you think PEDs distort the reality of the league, well, you must think the reality of the league is the NFL from the 60s. PEDs are reality, dude. That's life. Nothing you or I or anyone else can do about it. The huge guys at the gym, the huge guys on the magazine covers, the huge guys in sports. P E Ds. I've been in the military where I knew tons of guys that used, I've known college players that knew tons of guys that used, I know guys who used with many of their friends in high school, and I know more guys at the gym that use than anything else.

I'm not the one ignoring reality here.

LOL, you are TALKING TO SOMEONE IN THE MILITARY...SO DON'T TRY TO PLAY THAT CARD ON ME (I know people use...but NOT EVERYBODY USES..that's a copout) and the 60's had some of the best legends that played the game. This game could survive a non steroid league easily.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 11:03 PM
Nice back pedal.

I think it's very debatable. Where does this addiction you claim is so palpable come from? Is it chemical or mental?

google it and find out. I have multiple family members that suffered from this type of addiction......I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE. I hate to burst your bubble, but steroid/body enhancing drug addiction is a REAL ADDICTION.


Sorry, but a cat who used (not saying he did....just rolling with what the G.M. said) steroids since high school and watched his game elevate since that level all the way to being a star LBer at USC to a mid 1st round pick, not to mention a gym rat who's all about pumping iron who tested dirty during his first pro season MIGHT HAVE A PROBLEM. Ignore it all you want. I hope it's not true either, but the fear isn't any less either way. Reg flags are flying everywhere. But let's ignore all of those flags just because of the fact that he's a Houston Texan. I love Cushing.....he was a badass, if anybody wanted to ignore these signs it would be me (and I did ignore them), but with my family history.....I CAN'T. The dude reeks of serious steroid/PED issues

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 11:15 PM
LOL, so you say the majority of the NFL isn't using steroids but the game would suffer if they cleaned the game up....ok

read above....again

Sorry pal, I'm not sticking any words in your mouth that you haven't spoken already...

LOL, you are TALKING TO SOMEONE IN THE MILITARY...SO DON'T TRY TO PLAY THAT CARD ON ME (I know people use...but NOT EVERYBODY USES..that's a copout) and the 60's had some of the best legends that played the game. This game could survive a non steroid league easily.
You don't seem to be getting the difference between many, most, and all.

I've said before that I think most, as in a large percentage, of NFL players have used PEDs at some point in their life. I've said I think a lot of guys use in college. Is it 25%? 50%? I don't know, but in big programs I definitely think it is up there. In the NFL, well, I agreed with Pencil Neck that the amount that use is less than 50%. Also, when players get older I doubt they use as much. And in any case, you don't need to use them constantly. A cycle every few years would do the trick for some people.

Point is, it's not a rare phenomenon. And of course you make up more shit about the military. Yes Carr Bombed, I said everyone in the military uses. LOL. I said I knew a bunch, a ton, whatever, it's not everyone. I already said in another thread that I knew I think it was around 20 people in my company of 150 that used, as in I had direct knowledge that they were using.

Even though I've just wasted 3 minutes of my life explaining how many people I think use or have used PEDs, people like you and texecutioner will continue to say I said shit that I didn't. Your entire argument is built around making shit up about what I've said. Nice.



And yeah, I know that there were some great players in the 60s before steroids. Ever see a guy built like Vernon Davis, Brian Orakpo, or MJD back then? Course you didn't. Because steroids didn't exist in the US yet.

There are only two ways to make everything equal. Test everyone in the NFL every single week for every single PED, or don't test anyone at all. Until they do either of those, I'll just keep on assuming that the NFL is dirty.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 11:26 PM
You don't seem to be getting the difference between many, most, and all.

I've said before that I think most, as in a large percentage, of NFL players have used PEDs at some point in their life. I've said I think a lot of guys use in college. Is it 25%? 50%? I don't know, but in big programs I definitely think it is up there. In the NFL, well, I agreed with Pencil Neck that the amount that use is less than 50%. Also, when players get older I doubt they use as much. And in any case, you don't need to use them constantly. A cycle every few years would do the trick for some people.

Point is, it's not a rare phenomenon. And of course you make up more shit about the military. Yes Carr Bombed, I said everyone in the military uses. LOL. I said I knew a bunch, a ton, whatever, it's not everyone. I already said in another thread that I knew I think it was around 20 people in my company of 150 that used, as in I had direct knowledge that they were using.

Even though I've just wasted 3 minutes of my life explaining how many people I think use or have used PEDs, people like you and texecutioner will continue to say I said shit that I didn't. Your entire argument is built around making shit up about what I've said. Nice.



And yeah, I know that there were some great players in the 60s before steroids. Ever see a guy built like Vernon Davis, Brian Orakpo, or MJD back then? Course you didn't. Because steroids didn't exist in the US yet.

There are only two ways to make everything equal. Test everyone in the NFL every single week for every single PED, or don't test anyone at all. Until they do either of those, I'll just keep on assuming that the NFL is dirty.

Sorry, stopped reading when you said that I said "everybody in the military uses stuff" :lol Where did I EVER SAY THAT? I see what you do......say "you've seen/knew a bunch, a ton" (football or military) then when I question what you just said you say I put words in your mouth....

I NEVER SAID PEOPLE IN THE MILITARY ARE ROID FREAKS.

P.S.

Newsflash and I hate to break this to you, but the reason why you don't see people like Vernon Davis, Brian Orakpo, or MJD walking the streets is because they are million dollar physical specimens and you see those rare physical athletes walking the street.....if you did you'd know about 5 neighbors that would be in the league. The get paid, because THEY ARE RARE. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE CHEAT.

wagonhed
05-12-2010, 11:34 PM
:facepalm:

b0ng
05-12-2010, 11:35 PM
Man you guys are hitting it hard tonight. Bold all caps text and everything.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 11:42 PM
Sorry, stopped reading when you said that I said "everybody in the military uses stuff" :lol Where did I EVER SAY THAT? I see what you do......say "you've seen/knew a bunch, a ton" (football or military) then when I question what you just said you say I put words in your mouth....

I NEVER SAID PEOPLE IN THE MILITARY ARE ROID FREAKS.

P.S.

Newsflash and I hate to break this to you, but the reason why you don't see people like Vernon Davis, Brian Orakpo, or MJD walking the streets is because they are million dollar physical specimens and you see those rare physical athletes walking the street.....if you did you'd know about 5 neighbors that would be in the league. The get paid, because THEY ARE RARE. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE CHEAT.

Honestly, what I love about people like you is you always scream PEDs/steroids...anytime a "freak comes along", but ignore the growth hormones that are pumped in all of todays food, the sports medicine/training today, and the evolution of today's athlete. Track is the most tested sport around...is it no coincidence that we now have the fastest athlete that ever lived in Usain Bolt (Who BTW takes more drug tests than any Human currently alive? "Freaks" are always going to come about, that's just human nature. It doesn't mean everybody is dirty and is a cheater.

drs23
05-12-2010, 11:42 PM
google it and find out. I have multiple family members that suffered from this type of addiction......I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE. I hate to burst your bubble, but steroid/body enhancing drug addiction is a REAL ADDICTION.


Sorry, but a cat who used (not saying he did....just rolling with what the G.M. said) steroids since high school and watched his game elevate since that level all the way to being a star LBer at USC to a mid 1st round pick, not to mention a gym rat who's all about pumping iron who tested dirty during his first pro season MIGHT HAVE A PROBLEM. Ignore it all you want. I hope it's not true either, but the fear isn't any less either way. Reg flags are flying everywhere. But let's ignore all of those flags just because of the fact that he's a Houston Texan. I love Cushing.....he was a badass, if anybody wanted to ignore these signs it would be me (and I did ignore them), but with my family history.....I CAN'T. The dude reeks of serious steroid/PED issues


So, CB, are you going on the record here as being in the camp that says Cush will wither on the field and become a mere "shell" of himself?

Just axin'

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 11:47 PM
So, CB, are you going on the record here as being in the camp that says Cush will wither on the field and become a mere "shell" of himself?

Just axin'

I can't answer that question....

If he was a product of performance enhancing drugs SINCE HIGH SCHOOL....then yes, he will. If he comes clean, he'll flop out and crash hard.

But if (and hopefully) he was some just guy that got popped once, then no he won't. But if he is what that G.M. tried to say (AKA, a player whose entire football career was built on PED's), then yeah.....this isn't the last we'll here from his problems and he'll cost this team alot more suspensions and subpar games.

Carr Bombed
05-12-2010, 11:51 PM
:facepalm:

Facepalm all you want...it's the truth. LOL, a copout for a guy who has no argument.

thunderkyss
05-12-2010, 11:54 PM
How is saying that Cushing still cheated insinuating that life is over as we know it? That is a stretch at best


All I'm saying, is Brian Cushing getting caught cheating is one thing. We're dealing with that in other threads.

It's possible for some people to be upset that he cheated, and there are many different angles we can chase that topic, and still feel good about him keeping this acknowledgment.


This is about DROY. Whether we thought he deserved it or not, many thought it was foolish to have a "re-vote." Then the result being what it is... c'mon that's got to be a little funny.

It was the same at the ending of the season. Many fans were upset we didn't make the play-offs. I was upset we didn't make the play-offs. At the same time, I was happy (elated?? maybe) that we were 2nd in the AFC South, with our first winning season at 9-7.

thunderkyss
05-13-2010, 12:00 AM
I think the NFL should stop suspending players who rape or beat women, kill dogs, or commit vehicular homicide.

Me too.. seriously.

I think that should be left to the franchise. & if the NFL doesn't like what the franchise is doing, the NFL should punish the franchise.

thunderkyss
05-13-2010, 12:04 AM
google it and find out. I have multiple family members that suffered from this type of addiction......I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE. I hate to burst your bubble, but steroid/body enhancing drug addiction is a REAL ADDICTION.


Is alcohol addictive?

GuerillaBlack
05-13-2010, 12:10 AM
Interesting (http://www.buffalorange.com/showthread.php?177962-Cushing-still-wins-DROY) reading (http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/5/12/1469380/bills-s-byrd-finishes-second-in-ap) material (http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=257201) everywhere (http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2010/5/12/1469351/brian-cushing-still-a-cheater-and).


He got caught BEFORE the season.

That means he was tested constently through out the season and didn't fail which means his stats he posted without cheating.

Plus before they take his award away they need to take McGwire's Award away. Doc Gooden's award away, Merriman's award way, Jevon Kearse's awards away, kick all of the 70's Steelers out of the HOF and take away their championships.....

http://boards.buffalobills.com/showpost.php?p=3889416&postcount=15

Good post. Though, I don't think it was before the season. Was it?

Carr Bombed
05-13-2010, 12:14 AM
Is alcohol addictive?

Umm....yeah, what's your point?

GP
05-13-2010, 12:15 AM
Man you guys are hitting it hard tonight. Bold all caps text and everything.

Hardcore. Real street certified.

Ain't leavin' nuthin' to chance. This fo real, son. :gangsigns:

GP
05-13-2010, 12:16 AM
Umm....yeah,

I drank 20 Sharps and felt nothing.

thunderkyss
05-13-2010, 12:19 AM
Umm....yeah, what's your point?

That's my point. Alcohol is no more addictive than chocolate cake.

Some people may become addicted to alcohol, the same way you are saying some people get addicted to steroids, or throwing up.

a little different wouldn't you think?

Carr Bombed
05-13-2010, 12:20 AM
I drank 20 Sharps and felt nothing.

:spit:



(for the record...I love Cushing) I'm just not going to white wash everything he's done, like y'all.

Carr Bombed
05-13-2010, 12:23 AM
That's my point. Alcohol is no more addictive than chocolate cake.

Some people may become addicted to alcohol, the same way you are saying some people get addicted to steroids, or throwing up.

a little different wouldn't you think?


LMAO!!!

HAHAHA!!!

Did you really just compare Alcoholism to :spit: Chocolate cake :gun:

Ohh Geez....this is the definition of "homerisim.

thunderkyss
05-13-2010, 12:28 AM
LMAO!!!

HAHAHA!!!

Did you really just compare Alcoholism to :spit: Chocolate cake :gun:

Ohh Geez....this is the definition of "homerisim.

I'm trying to help you out here brother. Alcohol is not addictive. If it were, everyone who drank it would be alcoholics. It's not a problem with the drink, it is the person.

Same thing with sticking your finger down your throat, so you don't get fat. Not addictive. Some people can't stop themselves from doing it, because the are addicted... sick...

Grow up.

Carr Bombed
05-13-2010, 12:32 AM
I'm trying to help you out here brother. Alcohol is not addictive. If it were, everyone who drank it would be alcoholics. It's not a problem with the drink, it is the person.

Same thing with sticking your finger down your throat, so you don't get fat. Not addictive. Some people can't stop themselves from doing it, because the are addicted... sick...

Grow up.

Umm, Alcohol is one of the worst/most destructive drugs ever created and one of the most addictive drugs ever.....this doesn't help any argument.

thunderkyss
05-13-2010, 12:52 AM
Umm, Alcohol is one of the worst/most destructive drugs ever created and one of the most addictive drugs ever.....this doesn't help any argument.

Perhaps alcohol (which I drink a lot of at times, yet I am not addicted) and steroids are similar in that some people get attached to them, and feel as though they can't stop.

It's not a true addiction, IMHO. Nicotine on the other hand (which I am addicted to) is addictive. As is crack cocaine... weed is not addictive... heroine is.

It is quite possible, that I am wrong on this. But I never thought alcohol, or steroids were addictive.

Carr Bombed
05-13-2010, 01:32 AM
It is quite possible, that I am wrong on this. But I never thought alcohol, or steroids were addictive.

I'll leave this quote to the great doc... Both are highly addictive...especially alcohol

The Pencil Neck
05-13-2010, 01:49 AM
There's addiction and then there's addiction.

Even with the most addictive drugs, some people can take them once and walk away while other people will never be able to leave them alone.

Some guys get addicted to the feeling of power and strength that steroids give them. Some guys have body issues and get addicted to trying to make themselves look a certain way. But steroids don't get into your system and make you have to have them. At least, not to the best of my knowledge.

I could be wrong (and CnD will tell me if I am :) ) but I don't personally consider steroids very addictive. Much less addictive than alcohol or meth or crack or heroine or smoking. Because, like Thunderkyss was kinda saying, with steroids the addiction comes from a probably pre-existing mental condition that the steroids feed into while alcohol and drugs can actually make your body chemistry almost REQUIRE those chemical compounds in addition to mental conditions that they may also be feeding into. (TKyss wasn't saying that last part and was actually kinda taking the stance that addiction is all in your head, which is categorically wrong.)

Cush may have been doing steroids since he was a teenager (although frankly, I'd expect him to be a lot shorter if that were the case) but just the fact that he can go an entire season without taking them seems to deny any possibility of addiction to them.

gg no re
05-13-2010, 01:55 AM
guys if we're trying to define what's an addiction and what's not, use this video for clarification

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1450344874

Texecutioner
05-13-2010, 01:59 AM
Even though I've just wasted 3 minutes of my life explaining how many people I think use or have used PEDs, people like you and texecutioner will continue to say I said shit that I didn't. Your entire argument is built around making shit up about what I've said. Nice.

You can't lie about what you write or didn't write when it's right there in plain site.



And yeah, I know that there were some great players in the 60s before steroids. Ever see a guy built like Vernon Davis, Brian Orakpo, or MJD back then? Course you didn't. Because steroids didn't exist in the US yet.

You honestly don't believe that a guy like MJD can be as great as he is and be completely clean?

b0ng
05-13-2010, 02:01 AM
Really nobody like us will ever know what Cushing's entire steroid history is unless he writes some sort of tell-all book about it. We will definitely be able to speculate based on his play on the field though, so we'll have that. If he was really some kind of roid junkie that's giving HJ's out at the local gym for a cycle (As CB is stating he could be) then yes he will either play terribly or get busted again or both.

However, I think that right now, this is a one time thing and that he's going to come back with something to prove. Last year, his something to prove was "I should've been the 1st LB taken". This year he'll have to prove that he can do it and pass pee tests, and I think he'll be up for the challenge.

El Tejano
05-13-2010, 08:35 AM
I believe people voted for Cushing after they found out he wasn't going to lose any money over it. What kind of story is there if he doesn't lose any money?

GP
05-13-2010, 09:43 AM
LOL. Rep for most succinct post of the day.

Imatexanfan gives me neg rep for THIS?!?!?

. I was reading the Neg Rep thread just yesterday, thinking how awesome it is that I haven't received neg rep in forever. And now I got tagged. .

It's pandemonium on here! The universe is unraveling.

GP
05-13-2010, 09:46 AM
I believe people voted for Cushing after they found out he wasn't going to lose any money over it. What kind of story is there if he doesn't lose any money?

I think the 18 who stuck to their vote are the types of people who don't like to be TOLD or MADE to do this sort of second-guessing, retrospective, revisionist history hooey-phooey. They stuck it to The Man.

Good for them.

Everybody wants to be seen as being so culturally enlightened and nuanced. Just like the L.A. Council and the school in Illinois who are boycotting Arizona's crackdown on immigration. It's shallow.

HOU-TEX
05-13-2010, 09:50 AM
:spit:



(for the record...I love Cushing) I'm just not going to white wash everything he's done, like y'all.

CB, I've been behind most of what you've been saying, but I think there's a large majority of us who aren't white-washing anything. We understand he failed the test, he's guilty and deserved punishment.

Like you, I want a clean sport, without PED's, HGH and the rest of the BS used to cover up. However, I'm also not going to be naive to think it'll happen any time soon. Heck, I don't even think there's a test for HGH yet. So we, as fans, will ream a player that's caught, then will turn a blind eye because there ain't a dadgum thing we can do about it.

Again, I want all sports clean and maybe one day it'll happen.

2slik4u
05-13-2010, 10:02 AM
CB, I've been behind most of what you've been saying, but I think there's a large majority of us who aren't white-washing anything. We understand he failed the test, he's guilty and deserved punishment.

Like you, I want a clean sport, without PED's, HGH and the rest of the BS used to cover up. However, I'm also not going to be naive to think it'll happen any time soon. Heck, I don't even think there's a test for HGH yet. So we, as fans, will ream a player that's caught, then will turn a blind eye because there ain't a dadgum thing we can do about it.

Again, I want all sports clean and maybe one day it'll happen.

Say what you will about me, but Im being honest when I say this. I could care less what he takes. Im more pissed that he got caught than the fact that he took what he took. If you can get away with it then so be it. Again, what Im saying isnt the most popular opinion but its they way I feel. It sucks that hes gone for four games, I think his suspension should've been overturned........but thats just my unpopular opinion.

crucify me now or praise me later.

:kitten:

GP
05-13-2010, 10:07 AM
When the Ravens were in the playoffs this past season, just before the Patriots playoff game kicked off...the radio I was listening to (traveling that day) had a HUGE story on Ray Lewis.

It was about his work with the youth, and his glorious battle to overcome perceptions of who he was and who he is today.

I'm beginning to see that there is two standards here. One person is going to be gutted like a fish, and the other is being glorified. Youshould see the FoxSports writers. They already got their response written and posted. Clayton over at ESPN.com has his rebuttal in. I guess it's big business for them to stand at the podium and command the mic for eternity.

And that just rubs me raw. I'm going to need GoldBond powder before Cushing's sophomore season is finished.

I had hoped Brian would have some words and some contrition. Now? I hope he sticks it to them, AND to the reporters. Ray Lewis was arguably at the center of a MURDER. What a messed up world.

EDIT: Clayton talks about "not seeing contrition" from Cushing. I have a feeling the thing that has made Ray Lewis such a Swedish massage for the sports media is that he has given them two stories: Story one was his murder situation, and story two was his climb back to the top of Moral Mt. Everest. The writers have flogged the Cushing positive test to death, and now it's time for Cushing to give them a touchy-feely resurrection story. And until he does, they will see to it that he doesn't escape their scrutiny. Give in, Brian...embrace your punishment. :shallowness:

steelbtexan
05-13-2010, 10:39 AM
Say what you will about me, but Im being honest when I say this. I could care less what he takes. Im more pissed that he got caught than the fact that he took what he took. If you can get away with it then so be it. Again, what Im saying isnt the most popular opinion but its they way I feel. It sucks that hes gone for four games, I think his suspension should've been overturned........but thats just my unpopular opinion.

crucify me now or praise me later.

:kitten:

Agreed

This is entertainment and I dont care what athletes put into their bodies.

The it's about the children crowd make me sick. If a parent is relying on professional athletes to be role models something has gone way wrong in their household.

When adults use children to further their own agendas (welfare moms for example) It is really about doing or using everything in their power to get a result that they want and if they have to throw a few people under the bus to accomplish said desired result so be it.

BullNation4Life
05-13-2010, 10:44 AM
Umm, Alcohol is one of the worst/most destructive drugs ever created and one of the most addictive drugs ever.....this doesn't help any argument.

actually that would be tobacco....

Anything can be an addiction if it is abused. alcohol, drugs, steroid, chocolate cake. Alcohol can be addictive, but it is no more addictive than food or video games, until the user starts to abuse it.

steelbtexan
05-13-2010, 10:47 AM
When the Ravens were in the playoffs this past season, just before the Patriots playoff game kicked off...the radio I was listening to (traveling that day) had a HUGE story on Ray Lewis.

It was about his work with the youth, and his glorious battle to overcome perceptions of who he was and who he is today.

I'm beginning to see that there is two standards here. One person is going to be gutted like a fish, and the other is being glorified. Youshould see the FoxSports writers. They already got their response written and posted. Clayton over at ESPN.com has his rebuttal in. I guess it's big business for them to stand at the podium and command the mic for eternity.

And that just rubs me raw. I'm going to need GoldBond powder before Cushing's sophomore season is finished.

I had hoped Brian would have some words and some contrition. Now? I hope he sticks it to them, AND to the reporters. Ray Lewis was arguably at the center of a MURDER. What a messed up world.

EDIT: Clayton talks about "not seeing contrition" from Cushing. I have a feeling the thing that has made Ray Lewis such a Swedish massage for the sports media is that he has given them two stories: Story one was his murder situation, and story two was his climb back to the top of Moral Mt. Everest. The writers have flogged the Cushing positive test to death, and now it's time for Cushing to give them a touchy-feely resurrection story. And until he does, they will see to it that he doesn't escape their scrutiny. Give in, Brian...embrace your punishment. :shallowness:

The media loves them some them

They like to determine how the public views these multi million $ athletes. They are jealous that they dont make the kinda $ that the athletes make. So if athletes dont make their jobs easy (Like Ray Lewis did) They know they can turn the court public opinion against said athlete.

This is why Cushing needs to go along with the story line and bow at the alter of the media. I.E. Dick Justice

BullNation4Life
05-13-2010, 10:55 AM
CB, I've been behind most of what you've been saying, but I think there's a large majority of us who aren't white-washing anything. We understand he failed the test, he's guilty and deserved punishment.

Like you, I want a clean sport, without PED's, HGH and the rest of the BS used to cover up. However, I'm also not going to be naive to think it'll happen any time soon. Heck, I don't even think there's a test for HGH yet. So we, as fans, will ream a player that's caught, then will turn a blind eye because there ain't a dadgum thing we can do about it.

Again, I want all sports clean and maybe one day it'll happen.

Not me, I dig 500ft HRs and bone crushing hits in the grid Iron and if modern science can help in that department of entertainment, more power to it! Those guys are still superior athletes regardless of what they take to advance. It's not like anybody on this board can start a steroid cycle, and jump into a batter's box and it a 95 mph fastball 500ft, off the street. You had to of have that skill to begin with and I could safely say nobody here has it.

These are grown ass men playing kids games. If they want to risk their health to make millions, who are we to say no. they understand the consequences of their actions. If they make a bed of needles, let them lie in it....

HOU-TEX
05-13-2010, 10:57 AM
I found this pretty funny. Apparently this Ed Bouchette dude changed his initial vote to Cushing this time because he was pissed about doing the revote. Ha, props to him


@mortreport RT @Jirsche1211: @mortreport Ed Bouchette changed his vote ... TO BRIAN CUSHING?! > Ed stated his switch reflected his disdain for re-vote

http://twitter.com/mortreport

HOU-TEX
05-13-2010, 10:59 AM
Here's the entire list of who voted and for who. Hadn't seen it posted

KEPT BRIAN CUSHING(notes) (17)
Don Banks, Sports Illustrated.com
Bob Berger, Sporting News Radio
Chris Berman, ESPN
Steve Cohen, Sirius Satellite Radio
Frank Cooney, SportsXChange
Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune
Tom Curran, Comcast Sportsnet
Vinny Ditrani, The Record
Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News
Paul Gutierrez, Sacramento Bee
Clark Judge, CBSSports.com
John McClain, Houston Chronicle
Gary Myers, New York Daily News
Danny O'Neil, Seattle Times
Pete Prisco, CBSSports.com
Adam Teicher, Kansas City Star
Charean Williams Fort Worth Star-Telegram
KEPT JAIRUS BYRD(notes) (4)
Brian Allee-Walsh, New Orleans.com
Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News
Ashley Fox, Philadelphia Inquirer
Armando Salguero, Miami Herald
KEPT CLAY MATTHEWS(notes) (3)
Jim Corbett, USA Today
Tony Grossi, Cleveland Plain Dealer
Kent Somers, Arizona Republic
CHANGED TO BRIAN CUSHING (1)
Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Jairus Byrd)
CHANGED FROM BRIAN CUSHING (19)
Jarrett Bell, USA Today (Jairus Byrd)
Clifton Brown, The Sporting News (Jairus Byrd)
Rich Cimini, New York Daily News (Clay Matthews)
John Clayton, ESPN The Magazine (Clay Matthews)
Bob Costas, HBO/NBC Sports (Clay Matthews)
John Czarnecki, Fox Sports (Brian Orakpo(notes))
Boomer Esiason, CBS/Westwood One (Jairus Byrd)
Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News (Jairus Byrd)
Nancy Gay, AOL Fanhouse (Jairus Byrd)
Bob Glauber, Newsday (Jairus Byrd)
Dave Goldberg, AOL Fanhouse (Clay Matthews)
Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune (Jairus Byrd)
Peter King, Sports Illustrated (Clay Matthews)
Matt Maiocco, Santa Rosa Press Democrat (Clay Matthews)
Alex Marvez, Foxsports.com (Jairus Byrd)
Pat McManamon, Akron Beacon Journal (Jairus Byrd)
Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune (Clay Matthews)
Adam Schein, Sirius NFL Radio (Brian Orakpo)
Frank Schwab, Colorado Springs Gazette (Clay Matthews)
ABSTAINED (3)
Howie Long, Fox Sports
Chris Mortensen, ESPN
Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
Note: All had Cushing in the original balloting.
CHANGED FROM JAIRUS BYRD (2)
Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Brian Cushing)
David Elfin, Washington Times (Brian Orakpo)
CHANGED FROM BRIAN ORAKPO (2)
Howard Balzer, Fox Sports Net (James Laurinaitis(notes))
Len Shapiro, Miami Herald (Clay Matthews)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-apnfldefensiverookievoterbreakdown

2slik4u
05-13-2010, 11:09 AM
Here's the entire list of who voted and for who. Hadn't seen it posted



http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-apnfldefensiverookievoterbreakdown

This makes me love Chris Berman even more.

Ole Miss Texan
05-13-2010, 11:09 AM
I found this pretty funny. Apparently this Ed Bouchette dude changed his initial vote to Cushing this time because he was pissed about doing the revote. Ha, props to him.

Ha! I was actually wondering if for some weird reason someone voted for him the 2nd time that didn't the 1st!

Also, thanks for the list of who voted for who. Other than Bouchette, I don't understand how or why someone who voted for someone other than Cushing would or could change their vote this time to someone else (other than Cushing).


CHANGED FROM JAIRUS BYRD (2)
Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Brian Cushing)
David Elfin, Washington Times (Brian Orakpo)

CHANGED FROM BRIAN ORAKPO (2)
Howard Balzer, Fox Sports Net (James Laurinaitis)
Len Shapiro, Miami Herald (Clay Matthews)

Particularly the Bolded Red. Why change from Byrd to Orakpo? Why change from Orakpo to Laurinaitis/Matthews? It makes no sense to me. They had their vote when they did and shouldn't be allowed to go back after and change it UNLESS they want to take their vote away from Cushing. That's the whole reason why it's being reopened in the first place. Some of these writers are so dumb.

GP
05-13-2010, 11:12 AM
The media loves them some them

They like to determine how the public views these multi million $ athletes. They are jealous that they dont make the kinda $ that the athletes make. So if athletes dont make their jobs easy (Like Ray Lewis did) They know they can turn the court public opinion against said athlete.

This is why Cushing needs to go along with the story line and bow at the alter of the media. I.E. Dick Justice

Yeah, there's a lot of egotistical power-tripping going on.

No wonder athletes are tweeting stuff. I hope they render the sports media useless in the next decade.

stingray
05-13-2010, 11:15 AM
I can't believe Adam Schein has a vote. That guy has to be to most annoying human being on the face of the earth.

Ole Miss Texan
05-13-2010, 11:17 AM
I can't believe Adam Schein has a vote. That guy has to be to most annoying human being on the face of the earth.
He looks like he'd be Jeff Goldblum's annoying little brother.

http://multimedia.foxsports.com/thumbnails/cached_media/0000/0000613/0000613852/images/thumb.jpg

GP
05-13-2010, 11:17 AM
Clark Judge and Pete Prisco were already solid in my book. Now they are even more golden than before.

I submitted a satire piece on Daniel Snyder a few years ago, and sent it to Clark Judge, and he actually emailed me back and said he thought it was a really funny and well-written op/ed piece.

The guy who switched his vote should be sent cash money, and a box of cigars. Anybody want to pitch in? I'll find out his contact information and send it to him. Just PM me and we'll get 'er done.

GP
05-13-2010, 11:19 AM
http://multimedia.foxsports.com/thumbnails/cached_media/0000/0000613/0000613852/images/thumb.jpg

It's like Jerry Seinfeld and Jeff Goldblum had a child together.

He used to be one of the biggest "Texans are going to shock everybody this season" guys out there. He has now turned his back on us. :cry2:

BullNation4Life
05-13-2010, 11:21 AM
bump

BullNation4Life
05-13-2010, 11:21 AM
He looks like he'd be Jeff Goldblum's annoying little brother.

http://multimedia.foxsports.com/thumbnails/cached_media/0000/0000613/0000613852/images/thumb.jpg

http://thezenafile.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/jeff_goldblum_07.jpg



:photos:

steelbtexan
05-13-2010, 11:22 AM
Yeah, there's a lot of egotistical power-tripping going on.

No wonder athletes are tweeting stuff. I hope they render the sports media useless in the next decade.


I could see this happening.

The funny thing is that these so called sports journalists are going to use the Holy Grail approach until they lose whatever readership they left.

wagonhed
05-13-2010, 11:23 AM
You can't lie about what you write or didn't write when it's right there in plain site.


You honestly don't believe that a guy like MJD can be as great as he is and be completely clean?

Lol, so now you're calling me a liar....

If my posts are right there in plain "site", why don't you actually quote me instead of changing everything I've said? How many times have you said that I think 90% of the NFL uses steroids without quoting me? Hmmm. Seems like if I was such a liar you would just quote me and prove it.

PS - **** off. I'm still not going to engage you on this. Get over it.

GP
05-13-2010, 11:28 AM
Lol, so now you're calling me a liar....

If my posts are right there in plain "site", why don't you actually quote me instead of changing everything I've said? How many times have you said that I think 90% of the NFL uses steroids without quoting me? Hmmm. Seems like if I was such a liar you would just quote me and prove it.

PS - **** off. I'm still not going to engage you on this. Get over it.

Uh, but you just did. :headscratcher:

GP
05-13-2010, 11:43 AM
Ed Bouchette: He got caught and will pay the price. I do not agree with the AP, though, calling for a re-vote on his rookie award.

BigHeadTed: Ed, will you be voting for the Defensive Player of the Year? If so who will you vote for?

Ed Bouchette: I assume you mean the re-vote I just mentioned on the defensive rookie of the year. I voted for Cushing today.

link: Ed Bouchette switches his vote to Cushing (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10131/1057355-66.stm)

Already have one guy who PM'd me and said he's in for the box of cigars. Anybody else? I'm in the process of finding a mailing address. I'll include a "Thank You" card for not being a weenie and switching his vote.

GP
05-13-2010, 11:56 AM
Below is the email I sent to Ed Bouchette, but I doubt he will read it. We'll see, though. I also called and had the operator connect me...but it went to voice mail and yet the voice mail system didn't work. LOL.:

---------------------------------------

Ed:

On www.texanstalk.com/forums (The forum area is Texans Talk, where we're discussing Cushing retaining the DROY award yesterday) some of us were noticing that you actually switched your vote and gave Cushing a bump. Now, hear me out. We know you are not celebrating the mess he's in. But you did make a statement against the re-vote with your vote-switch, which we find very commendable.

Is there any way we could mail you something from Texas, to show our appreciation for you standing up to the media mafia who capitulated in knee-jerk fashion earlier this week? I had thought about a box of cigars, but maybe you're not a cigar guy. We have some really, really good beff jerky that we can send. It's the bizness.

Anyways, there is a lot of discussion on this at the message board. Opinions are diverse, obviously. We just wanted to take time out of our day to say that we saw who capitulated and who refused to exploit this situation so they could have a few extra days of op/eds to crank out. Thank you, sir.

- GP on the www.texanstalk.com/forums website

Double Barrel
05-13-2010, 12:24 PM
Alcohol is not addictive. If it were, everyone who drank it would be alcoholics. It's not a problem with the drink, it is the person.

Same thing with sticking your finger down your throat, so you don't get fat. Not addictive. Some people can't stop themselves from doing it, because the are addicted... sick...

Grow up.


Is cocaine addictive?

By your logic - that since not everyone who does it gets addicted - then it's not. I've known many people who party hard and have used it as a "recreational drug" and never got addicted. But nobody is going to argue that cocaine is not addictive.

And then there is the reality of alcohol addiction:

Why alcohol is addictive (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3537387.stm)

And if you really want to argue the point, I'm sure there is a AA meeting (http://www.aa.org/?Media=PlayFlash) near you that would gladly educate you on the subject.


Perhaps alcohol (which I drink a lot of at times, yet I am not addicted) and steroids are similar in that some people get attached to them, and feel as though they can't stop.

It's not a true addiction, IMHO. Nicotine on the other hand (which I am addicted to) is addictive. As is crack cocaine... weed is not addictive... heroine is.

It is quite possible, that I am wrong on this. But I never thought alcohol, or steroids were addictive.

And for those folks who refuse to accept the reality of steroid addiction:

Users of Steroids Risk Addiction, Two Researchers at Yale Report (http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/08/sports/users-of-steroids-risk-addiction-two-researchers-at-yale-report.html) (this stuff was known over 20 years ago, btw)

Anabolic Steroid Abuse (http://www.medicinenet.com/anabolic_steroid_abuse/page6.htm)

and this:

Are anabolic steroids addictive? (http://espn.go.com/special/s/drugsandsports/steroids.html)

Recent evidence suggests that long-time steroid users and steroid abusers may experience the classic characteristics of addiction including cravings, difficulty in stopping steroid use and withdrawal symptoms. "Addiction is an extreme of dependency, which may be a psychological, if not physical, phenomena," says Dr. Wadler. "Regardless, there is no question that when regular steroid users stop taking the drug they get withdrawal pains and if they start up again the pain goes away. They have difficulties stopping use even though they know it's bad for them."

And there are plenty of other legit sources to back the facts of steroid addiction.

Some of y'all's perspectives remind me of the Abe Lincoln quote: "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg."

Arf!

GP
05-13-2010, 12:25 PM
In related news....

I am offering John Clayton a vile of Cushing's steroids. And a copy of Maxim magazine.

Ole Miss Texan
05-13-2010, 12:28 PM
Aside from that, I think anything could be addictive to people. Maybe not in the normal sense you think about, but in a psychological way. There's a lot of people that are so worried about their weight, even when they're terribly skinny they still see themselves as fat. lots of eating disorders and stuff like that. It's all messed up in the brain.

I see steroids in a similar way. The substance itself could be addictive but even if not.. a person could get "addicted" to the way they feel or look when taking them. I can see a lot of people this way just not thinking their strong enough or don't look cut enough and keep pushing it and pushing it.

Not saying Cushing is like that at all but just giving my view on this whole addiction/problem talk.

GP
05-13-2010, 12:30 PM
Some of y'all's perspectives remind me of the Abe Lincoln quote: "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg."

Arf!

I'm addicted to eating dog meat. I keep mindlessly stumbling back to the same bad-side-of-town Thai food cafe on a weekly basis.

What do you expect for a $4.50 buffet? Actual pig or beef? LOL. Silly.

I prefer their cashew daschund, but the Kung Pao terrier is in the mix too. Bob Barker approves.

b0ng
05-13-2010, 12:31 PM
I'm addicted to a healthy drug-free lifestyle.

Double Barrel
05-13-2010, 12:37 PM
I'm addicted to eating dog meat. I keep mindlessly stumbling back to the same bad-side-of-town Thai food cafe on a weekly basis.

What do you expect for a $4.50 buffet? Actual pig or beef? LOL. Silly.

I prefer their cashew daschund, but the Kung Pao terrier is in the mix too. Bob Barker approves.

I prefer Labrador. They are a lean meat from so much running, and they are also endorsed by the China National Space Administration (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7718570/Dog-on-the-menu-for-Chinese-astronauts.html).

GP
05-13-2010, 12:40 PM
I prefer Labrador. They are a lean meat from so much running, and they are also endorsed by the China National Space Administration (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7718570/Dog-on-the-menu-for-Chinese-astronauts.html).

I totally forgot about that story. I don't want to even read it. :vomit:

Some stories, you gotta' just let the headline do the talking. No need to read any further. LOL.

CloakNNNdagger
05-13-2010, 01:35 PM
There's addiction and then there's addiction.

Even with the most addictive drugs, some people can take them once and walk away while other people will never be able to leave them alone.

Some guys get addicted to the feeling of power and strength that steroids give them. Some guys have body issues and get addicted to trying to make themselves look a certain way. But steroids don't get into your system and make you have to have them. At least, not to the best of my knowledge.

I could be wrong (and CnD will tell me if I am :) ) but I don't personally consider steroids very addictive. Much less addictive than alcohol or meth or crack or heroine or smoking. Because, like Thunderkyss was kinda saying, with steroids the addiction comes from a probably pre-existing mental condition that the steroids feed into while alcohol and drugs can actually make your body chemistry almost REQUIRE those chemical compounds in addition to mental conditions that they may also be feeding into. (TKyss wasn't saying that last part and was actually kinda taking the stance that addiction is all in your head, which is categorically wrong.)

Cush may have been doing steroids since he was a teenager (although frankly, I'd expect him to be a lot shorter if that were the case) but just the fact that he can go an entire season without taking them seems to deny any possibility of addiction to them.


You are correct about the psychological aspect of the addiction (which can be a strong component). But there is a definite proven element to the chemical/physical aspect of the addiction.

Is cocaine addictive?

By your logic - that since not everyone who does it gets addicted - then it's not. I've known many people who party hard and have used it as a "recreational drug" and never got addicted. But nobody is going to argue that cocaine is not addictive.

And then there is the reality of alcohol addiction:

Why alcohol is addictive (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3537387.stm)

And if you really want to argue the point, I'm sure there is a AA meeting (http://www.aa.org/?Media=PlayFlash) near you that would gladly educate you on the subject.


And for those folks who refuse to accept the reality of steroid addiction:

Users of Steroids Risk Addiction, Two Researchers at Yale Report (http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/08/sports/users-of-steroids-risk-addiction-two-researchers-at-yale-report.html) (this stuff was known over 20 years ago, btw)

Anabolic Steroid Abuse (http://www.medicinenet.com/anabolic_steroid_abuse/page6.htm)

and this:



And there are plenty of other legit sources to back the facts of steroid addiction.

Some of y'all's perspectives remind me of the Abe Lincoln quote: "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg."

Arf!




This is a well accepted generalized summary of the addictive nature of the substances in question.


************************************************** ***************************

To elaborate a bit more on the steroid aspect:

A Harvard study published in the December 2009 issue of the Journal Addiction entitled
Anabolic-androgenic steroid dependence: an emerging disorder


AIMS: Anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) are widely used illicitly to gain muscle and lose body fat. Here we review the accumulating human and animal evidence showing that AAS may cause a distinct dependence syndrome, often associated with adverse psychiatric and medical effects. METHOD: We present an illustrative case of AAS dependence, followed by a summary of the human and animal literature on this topic, based on publications known to us or obtained by searching the PubMed database. RESULTS: About 30% of AAS users appear to develop a dependence syndrome, characterized by chronic AAS use despite adverse effects on physical, psychosocial or occupational functioning. AAS dependence shares many features with classical drug dependence. For example, hamsters will self-administer AAS, even to the point of death, and both humans and animals exhibit a well-documented AAS withdrawal syndrome, mediated by neuroendocrine and cortical neurotransmitter systems. AAS dependence may particularly involve opioidergic mechanisms. However, AAS differ from classical drugs in that they produce little immediate reward of acute intoxication, but instead a delayed effect of muscle gains. Thus standard diagnostic criteria for substance dependence, usually crafted for acutely intoxicating drugs, must be adapted slightly for cumulatively acting drugs such as AAS. CONCLUSIONS: AAS dependence is a valid diagnostic entity, and probably a growing public health problem. AAS dependence may share brain mechanisms with other forms of substance dependence, especially opioid dependence. Future studies are needed to characterize AAS dependence more clearly, identify risk factors for this syndrome and develop treatment strategies.

Anabolic steroids are considered by the medical community as potentially both chemically/physically and psychologically addictive. Although AAS users may be more likely to consult physicians for nonpsychiatric medical consequences than changes in their mental status, it is repeatedly shown that the additional motivation for persistent use despite adverse consequences is sustained in large part by psychological variables.

wagonhed
05-13-2010, 01:45 PM
I'll try to read that study later, no time now.

I do want to ask though. Isn't "addiction to steroids" more properly labeled as a type of body dysmorphia, like anorexia? Seems a lot more reasonable to call it a mental illness than a chemical or physical addiction.

Ask yourself this. If another drug came around that had the same effects on muscle building as steroids do, but had totally different emotional/mental side effects and none of the health dangers, do you really think steroid users would have trouble switching because of addiction? I don't.

They aren't addicted to the drug. They are addicted to being strong/big. On top of that, "steroid" refers to at least 20 different drugs. Almost every steroid is unique and has different physical and psychological effects. Some have VASTLY different effects. How is it that you can lump them all in one group and say "they're addictive"?

Strikes me as kind of the same thing as saying junk food, or fatty foods, is addictive. I mean look how many obese people can't stop eating them, right?

Texecutioner
05-13-2010, 02:43 PM
Lol, so now you're calling me a liar....

If my posts are right there in plain "site", why don't you actually quote me instead of changing everything I've said?

That's exactly what I just did earlier in this thread when you denied calling Orakpo a cheater. You went to your typical ploy of blaming other people for putting words into your mouth and I quoted the post for you again so you couldn't hide from it the 2nd time. Then you turned around and pulled the same thing with Carr Bombed when you put yourself in a corner with him.

Don't make up random things out of thin air if you can't prove it or explain it with some sort of evidence or facts. And don't blame myself or anyone else when you're questioned on it.



PS - **** off. I'm still not going to engage you on this. Get over it.

That's probably your best bet since this is just another situation where you've made another false claim without any evidence or facts to the contrary.

The Pencil Neck
05-13-2010, 02:46 PM
You are correct about the psychological aspect of the addiction (which can be a strong component). But there is a definite proven element to the chemical/physical aspect of the addiction.






This is a well accepted generalized summary of the addictive nature of the substances in question.


************************************************** ***************************

To elaborate a bit more on the steroid aspect:

A Harvard study published in the December 2009 issue of the Journal Addiction entitled
Anabolic-androgenic steroid dependence: an emerging disorder




Anabolic steroids are considered by the medical community as potentially both chemically/physically and psychologically addictive. Although AAS users may be more likely to consult physicians for nonpsychiatric medical consequences than changes in their mental status, it is repeatedly shown that the additional motivation for persistent use despite adverse consequences is sustained in large part by psychological variables.


Thanks very much. I had never seen that before. Everything I had seen prior to that was that there wasn't a physical component.

Texecutioner
05-13-2010, 02:51 PM
Is cocaine addictive?

By your logic - that since not everyone who does it gets addicted - then it's not. I've known many people who party hard and have used it as a "recreational drug" and never got addicted. But nobody is going to argue that cocaine is not addictive.

And then there is the reality of alcohol addiction:

Why alcohol is addictive (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3537387.stm)

And if you really want to argue the point, I'm sure there is a AA meeting (http://www.aa.org/?Media=PlayFlash) near you that would gladly educate you on the subject.




And for those folks who refuse to accept the reality of steroid addiction:

Users of Steroids Risk Addiction, Two Researchers at Yale Report (http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/08/sports/users-of-steroids-risk-addiction-two-researchers-at-yale-report.html) (this stuff was known over 20 years ago, btw)

Anabolic Steroid Abuse (http://www.medicinenet.com/anabolic_steroid_abuse/page6.htm)

and this:



And there are plenty of other legit sources to back the facts of steroid addiction.

Some of y'all's perspectives remind me of the Abe Lincoln quote: "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg."

Arf!

Yeah, basically everything Carr Bombed was saying earlier was true about alcohol and steroids both being addictive. I don't see how anyone could argue that alcohol isn't addictive.

I've seen several people addicted to steroids as well. It isn't physically addictive like crack or cocaine, but insecure people that get on steroids and are very self contious about the way that they look and how they're perceived can get very addicted to steroids and the extra look and strength that it gives them. There's people I've known that looked fantastic for years that were on roids and could have gotten off of them at any point and stayed a very nice size, but after while it became part of their lifestyle. It's hard for a lot of adults to change certain lifestyles after a certain age.

I hope that Cushing hasn't been doing steroids since HS, but I personally think he has. Rumors like that aren't circulating about all of these other players everywhere. It's a reason why there's been as much smoke about the guy since all the way back to HS. We're not talking about this just happening now, or a few rumors from college. This goes back like 6 to 7 years now with Cushing. I just hope that he can return as the same player he as last season.

Porky
05-13-2010, 03:17 PM
Totally off subject but my girlfriend seems to be addicted to eating ice. Anyone ever heard of that one? She said she never did it until she met me, now she can't stop. And the funny thing is she either gets lite ice or no ice in her drinks when we go out...then halfway thru the meal, she'll ask the waiter for a glass of ice, then takes her spoon and eats it all. I keep telling her it's bad for her teeth, but she says she can't stop. I know y'all think I'm being funny, but I'm not. Is that an actual addiction, because she swears she can't stop.

In regards to Cushing, I agree with the AP, but I also feel that it's likely he has been doing this since HS. I wonder if he is even capable of quitting, or if he'll just try that much harder to mask it. Kind of sad really, but not as bad as an ice addiction. :cow:

Ole Miss Texan
05-13-2010, 03:21 PM
Totally off subject but my girlfriend seems to be addicted to eating ice. Anyone ever heard of that one? She said she never did it until she met me, now she can't stop. And the funny thing is she either gets lite ice or no ice in her drinks when we go out...then halfway thru the meal, she'll ask the waiter for a glass of ice, then takes her spoon and eats it all. I keep telling her it's bad for her teeth, but she says she can't stop. I know y'all think I'm being funny, but I'm not. Is that an actual addiction, because she swears she can't stop.

Congrats man! Is GF1 the one that was going to marry to rich dying dude or the jealous hispanic?

Sorry...I had too! :lol:

WWJD
05-13-2010, 03:21 PM
Totally off subject but my girlfriend seems to be addicted to eating ice. Anyone ever heard of that one? She said she never did it until she met me, now she can't stop. And the funny thing is she either gets lite ice or no ice in her drinks when we go out...then halfway thru the meal, she'll ask the waiter for a glass of ice, then takes her spoon and eats it all. I keep telling her it's bad for her teeth, but she says she can't stop. I know y'all think I'm being funny, but I'm not. Is that an actual addiction, because she swears she can't stop.

In regards to Cushing, I agree with the AP, but I also feel that it's likely he has been doing this since HS. I wonder if he is even capable of quitting, or if he'll just try that much harder to mask it. Kind of sad really, but not as bad as an ice addiction. :cow:

I use to work with a lady that crunched ice all day. Her doctor told her she was anemic and that was the reason.

HOU-TEX
05-13-2010, 03:23 PM
Totally off subject but my girlfriend seems to be addicted to eating ice. Anyone ever heard of that one? She said she never did it until she met me, now she can't stop. And the funny thing is she either gets lite ice or no ice in her drinks when we go out...then halfway thru the meal, she'll ask the waiter for a glass of ice, then takes her spoon and eats it all. I keep telling her it's bad for her teeth, but she says she can't stop. I know y'all think I'm being funny, but I'm not. Is that an actual addiction, because she swears she can't stop.

In regards to Cushing, I agree with the AP, but I also feel that it's likely he has been doing this since HS. I wonder if he is even capable of quitting, or if he'll just try that much harder to mask it. Kind of sad really, but not as bad as an ice addiction. :cow:

Hmm, let's see here. A woman that has a craving for ice could be made out to be something positive for the Porkster. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*

Rey
05-13-2010, 03:29 PM
Totally off subject but my girlfriend seems to be addicted to eating ice. Anyone ever heard of that one? She said she never did it until she met me, now she can't stop. And the funny thing is she either gets lite ice or no ice in her drinks when we go out...then halfway thru the meal, she'll ask the waiter for a glass of ice, then takes her spoon and eats it all. I keep telling her it's bad for her teeth, but she says she can't stop. I know y'all think I'm being funny, but I'm not. Is that an actual addiction, because she swears she can't stop.

In regards to Cushing, I agree with the AP, but I also feel that it's likely he has been doing this since HS. I wonder if he is even capable of quitting, or if he'll just try that much harder to mask it. Kind of sad really, but not as bad as an ice addiction. :cow:

I think that most people have addictive personalities...I think most everyone is addicted to something, whether it be drugs, hobbies or food...

Porky
05-13-2010, 03:30 PM
I use to work with a lady that crunched ice all day. Her doctor told her she was anemic and that was the reason.

Hmmm, ok. I wonder if that could be it. I will bring it to her attention. She literally told me she felt compelled to eat ice and couldn't stop. Is there a 12 step ice eaters program around here anywhere. :bubbles:

Porky
05-13-2010, 03:54 PM
sorry to hijack the thread, but I just checked and sure enough this is a real addiction. It's called Pagophagia, and can be caused by an iron or other mineral defiency among other things. Thanks all. I will bring this up to her.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Cushing thread.

HOU-TEX
05-13-2010, 03:55 PM
sorry to hijack the thread, but I just checked and sure enough this is a real addiction. It's called Pagophagia, and can be caused by an iron or other mineral defiency among other things. Thanks all. I will bring this up to her.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Cushing thread.

See what happens when you go to Galveston. jk

WWJD
05-13-2010, 03:57 PM
Hmmm, ok. I wonder if that could be it. I will bring it to her attention. She literally told me she felt compelled to eat ice and couldn't stop. Is there a 12 step ice eaters program around here anywhere. :bubbles:

Yep..have her doc check her for anemia! Sounds like a place to start anyway.