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ledzeppelin229
05-14-2010, 03:30 AM
If Houston has to stand alone, we will support our own. So let it be.

Cush might be telling stories. But he's digging his own hole if thats the case. I'll support his reasoning until proven otherwise.

blitz90
05-14-2010, 08:55 AM
Just read this in a PFT article:http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/13/cushings-tumor-excuse-gets-exposed/

From Dr. Gary Wadler, who chairs the committe that the determines the banned substances for the World Anti-Doping Agency:

"If he had a tumor that produced hCG, he wouldn't be playing football," Wadler said. "He would be under treatment for a malignant tumor."

Wadler also pointed out that, if Cushing had a tumor, he would have tested positive for hCG consistently. Instead, Cushing only tested positive for hCG once.

"Malignant testicular tumors producing hCG are rather lethal," Dr. Wadler said. "It is a fairly aggressive tumor and you're not playing in the NFL with one."

And that's the truest statement made today as to Cushing: "You're not playing in the NFL with one."

Texan_Bill
05-14-2010, 09:09 AM
I will be leading my section in that ovation.

At that point he will have done his time, and then he is one of ours until he loses the edge - whether that be in two years or ten. :texflag:

No doubt KT!!

gtexan02
05-14-2010, 10:01 AM
This, coupled with the principle of Occam's razor, makes it a case of using logic over emotion-based reaction.

Cushing is our guy. I'll support him as a Texans fan. But I'm not going to wear blinders because I'm a Texans fan. It is what it is at the end of the day, regardless of personal opinions about the subject of drug testing or PEDs.

See, this is what gets me.

As Ive reflected more on this, I realize that I dont really care that much if he used a PED like hcg prior to entering the NFL. I know he was already "part of the NFL" tehcnically, but hear me out.

What really gets me is his story.

I want to believe him because he sounds so sincere. But what he's saying just seems to ridiculous. If its true, then I really feel for the guy. If its not, then he's lost my respsect.

Its one thing to screw up. Its another thing to invent an absurd story to cover your tracks. Its why I forgave Arod, but not Bonds. Owning up to a mistake makes it much, much better than taking your fans for morons.

LIke I said, I want to believe him. And part of me does. He sounded sincere. Ill support him until there is evidence otherwise. But if it turns out that he was lying, thats where I gotta draw the line

GP
05-14-2010, 10:48 AM
What I want to know is how this guy http://assets.espn.go.com/i/columnists/clayton_john_m.jpg is beating the hCG tests?

So the test is bogus, IMO.

WOO-HOO!!! I just got my 1,000th rep point :woot: from Thunderkyss.

Glad it was someone I go way back with, back to the days of arguing over David Carr!

HJam72
05-14-2010, 10:53 AM
OK, first four games Cushing and the rookie LB switch numbers.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

And we thought it was a wasted draft pick. :)

HJam72
05-14-2010, 10:56 AM
This is really all such a shame for this to happen now. I heard Cushing has basketball size tumors in his nuts. :foottap:

HOU-TEX
05-14-2010, 10:57 AM
What I want to know is how this guy http://assets.espn.go.com/i/columnists/clayton_john_m.jpg is beating the hCG tests?

So the test is bogus, IMO.

WOO-HOO!!! I just got my 1,000th rep point :woot: from Thunderkyss.

Glad it was someone I go way back with, back to the days of arguing over David Carr!

I call him Beaker. To me, he looks like Beaker from Sesame Street.

http://tentativeequinox.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/lyle_beaker.gif

Double Barrel
05-14-2010, 12:06 PM
I expect a standing O

A really enthusiastic standing O at that.

Hopefully a really enthusiastic standing 4-O!! :texflag:

thunderkyss
05-14-2010, 11:36 PM
See, this is what gets me.

As Ive reflected more on this, I realize that I dont really care that much if he used a PED like hcg prior to entering the NFL. I know he was already "part of the NFL" tehcnically, but hear me out.

& I think that is where a lot of guys who are pissed are coming from. They care. & that's fine. They just need to understand, not everyone sees it the same way.

Also, just to help you out. hCG is not a PED, it is not a masking agent. It's a substance associated with steroid use. This is not definite proof that he uses/used steroids at any time.

What really gets me is his story.

Its one thing to screw up. Its another thing to invent an absurd story to cover your tracks. Its why I forgave Arod, but not Bonds.

LIke I said, I want to believe him. And part of me does. He sounded sincere. Ill support him until there is evidence otherwise.

This is where you lose me. There is no more compelling evidence that proves Bonds used steroids, than there is that Cush juices. In both cases, it is speculation. It's a stronger case that Cushing is using. But you haven't forgiven Bonds.

ChampionTexan
05-15-2010, 12:04 AM
& I think that is where a lot of guys who are pissed are coming from. They care. & that's fine. They just need to understand, not everyone sees it the same way.

Also, just to help you out. hCG is not a PED, it is not a masking agent. It's a substance associated with steroid use. This is not definite proof that he uses/used steroids at any time.


This is where you lose me. There is no more compelling evidence that proves Bonds used steroids, than there is that Cush juices. In both cases, it is speculation. It's a stronger case that Cushing is using. But you haven't forgiven Bonds.

The Book "Game of Shadows" presents more compelling evidence of Bonds use of steroids than anything that's gone down with Cush to this point.

ledzeppelin229
05-15-2010, 01:57 AM
I call him Beaker. To me, he looks like Beaker from Sesame Street.

http://tentativeequinox.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/lyle_beaker.gif

http://totallylookslike.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/128760817162036681.jpg

ledzeppelin229
05-15-2010, 02:02 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7006235.html


Meanwhile, Steinberg based a big part of his appeal on Cushing's enlarged pituitary gland and a surgical procedure he had while at USC.

Steinberg told Cushing not to tell anyone about the tests, appeal or trips to hospitals in San Diego, Denver and Houston for tests to find out why his body was naturally producing hCG (human chorionic gonadotropin).

“I specifically said, ‘I don't want this to be revealed to anyone,' ” Steinberg said Friday. “Look at the firestorm that's occurred.

“He had a pre-existing medical condition (involving an enlarged pituitary gland) that was consistent with the natural production of hCG in males,” Steinberg said. “They came out in the hearing, and they were documented.

“We learned that he had a particular medical condition that was consistent with natural production in the body of this banned substance. We felt with the low levels at which it tested was also consistent with natural production.

“We did research and found out that his was a plausible explanation. We consulted an expert who suggested further testing. We became convinced that this was a situation that was naturally produced.”

This stuff doesn't seem consistent with the whole tumor option. Why didn't Cushing mention the enlarged pituitary gland or the USC operation in the press conference? It seems like the doctors told him there were two possibilities, 1) Took hCG 2) Tumors, and since he denied (1) then he automatically took (2) seriously even if there was no further evidence simply by process of elimination.

Napa Auto Parts
05-15-2010, 02:16 AM
Hell how those this get so much airtime its not like Cush Killed or Raped someone.

thunderkyss
05-15-2010, 02:23 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7006235.html


This stuff doesn't seem consistent with the whole tumor option. Why didn't Cushing mention the enlarged pituitary gland or the USC operation in the press conference? It seems like the doctors told him there were two possibilities, 1) Took hCG 2) Tumors, and since he denied (1) then he automatically took (2) seriously even if there was no further evidence simply by process of elimination.

Steinberg told Cushing not to tell anyone about the tests, appeal or trips to hospitals in San Diego, Denver and Houston for tests to find out why his body was naturally producing hCG (human chorionic gonadotropin).

maybe that is why all Brian said was "convincing evidence." He was being told not to say otherwise.

Even if he had, since the NFL denied his appeal, the doubters are going to say that it's the biggest cockameiny load of crap they heard anyway.

He's in a no win situation. The only thing he can do, is get a handle on why his body is producing elevated levels of hCG, get it under control, continue to play like he did last year, and never have an incident like this again.

ledzeppelin229
05-15-2010, 02:35 AM
I also have a question...I know hCG is used to restore testosterone production after a steroid cycle. But is it also used as a masking agent? I keep seeing the latter in news reports but I thought hCG was just for testosterone restoration.

New_Texans
05-15-2010, 02:41 AM
Im kinda hoping that Cushing was just roiding now...tumors, glands, endocrines...instead of being out for 4 games, if he is ill, his life could very well be on the line.

ledzeppelin229
05-15-2010, 02:46 AM
Im kinda hoping that Cushing was just roiding now...tumors, glands, endocrines...instead of being out for 4 games, if he is ill, his life could very well be on the line.

I hope he's fine but I also hope there's some truth to his statements. Roiding to gain a competitive edge is cheating but pretty forgivable if had just said it. It doesn't strike at the core of his character if his statements turn out to be a ton of BS to cover his tracks.

thunderkyss
05-15-2010, 02:55 AM
I also have a question...I know hCG is used to restore testosterone production after a steroid cycle. But is it also used as a masking agent? I keep seeing the latter in news reports but I thought hCG was just for testosterone restoration.

I just read a story in the chronicle that called hCG a masking agent. I personally would think a masking agent would be something you would take that would hide that you injected steroids.

From what I understand, that isn't the function of hCG. hCG is to reverse the damage steroids does to your body.

New_Texans
05-15-2010, 02:58 AM
I hope he's fine but I also hope there's some truth to his statements. Roiding to gain a competitive edge is cheating but pretty forgivable if had just said it. It doesn't strike at the core of his character if his statements turn out to be a ton of BS to cover his tracks.

I just finished reading a series of e-mails McClain had been receiving from a woman who has been dealing with a similar issue that Cushing is. From what she was saying, his levels could be changing due to a tumor in his brain as well thats messing up his pituitary glands. Apparently, according to this new information from his lawyer, he had surgery on that before. This probably has to be one of the scariest situations Cushing is going through IF he isn't lying and now, I hope he is cause man...if it turns out to be something else it could be bad.

Heres (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2010/05/interesting_take_on_cushing_fr.html) the link to that article I was reading

IDEXAN
05-15-2010, 11:03 AM
“The second expert for the NFL testified, ‘No, I do believe that it can be produced naturally, and I do believe there's scientific confirmation that a male can naturally produce it.'

“At that point, I thought this hearing is over. I should win this hearing. Our feeling was that if the two NFL experts are in disagreement, how does the NFL sustain the suspension when their own experts are in disagreement?”
&&
Can this be fair to Cushing (or others who might find themselve in Cushing position) ? Apparently to be innocent of charges, the NFLs own experts(s)
must agree unanimously that he's INNOCENT, i.e., it's not enough that
half of the NFLs experts (as was the case with Cushing appeal, one of the
2 sided with him) side with Cushing.

infantrycak
05-15-2010, 11:17 AM
I also have a question...I know hCG is used to restore testosterone production after a steroid cycle. But is it also used as a masking agent? I keep seeing the latter in news reports but I thought hCG was just for testosterone restoration.

McClain and others that are referring to it as a masking agent are just wrong. Early on folks reported he tested positive for steroids, then some started reporting masking agent before they new it was hcg. Since then some folks have conflated the two and turned hcg into a masking agent and you know how errors on the internet are self propagating.

Ryan
05-15-2010, 02:22 PM
Can we please merge all of these Cushing threads together? It's starting to burn my eyes.

vanknights2002
05-15-2010, 05:38 PM
This offseason the news has been on current(Big Ben) and former(LT) rape cases. Does it seem that to much media has been put on Cushing. Maybe the NFL is trying to do a slight of hand. To down play the whole Big Ben/LT thing. It's like, look the NFL is the good guy and Cushing is a cheater. When it should be what going on with Big Ben an LT and why are they doing this. Ben has had two rape investigations and LT got caught with the girl in his room.

Come on Man

dc_txtech
05-15-2010, 05:46 PM
Except he failed the test before any of that happened.

rmartin65
05-15-2010, 06:16 PM
This needed its own thread? There are a billion Cushing-Steroid/not steroid/press conference/lies/NFL conspiracy threads on the board already.

Ryan
05-15-2010, 06:41 PM
:facepalm: another one?

infantrycak
05-15-2010, 06:53 PM
Except he failed the test before any of that happened.

So? - the news didn't come out until long after.

On any issue like this there are turning points and someone gets to be the goat. Could have been Peppers, Merriman or anyone else. Confluence of events and Cushing drew the black bean.

CloakNNNdagger
05-16-2010, 11:24 AM
First of all, let me apologize for this posting of such extended full-length text [There will next be 3 linked pieces submitted following my commentary in split-posting fashion]. However, I believe that it is important for thinking minds to leave behind their preconceived biases and look at the realities that are before us.

I’ve said previously, I like Cushing and I want to continue to support him. But, short of knowing every single little fact, no scenario thus far medically supports his stance. From a medical standpoint, the recent revelations by Cushing and his attorney are a series of highly selective facts and medical half-truths which are carefully constructed to present “reasonable doubt.” The is not court with its little tricks of who puts on the best show.......this is a medical issue where the truth and supporting facts are being sought. Some say that medical privacy is Cushing’s right........and no one can argue against this legally or medically. However, if Cushing wished to maintain this stance, he and his attorney should never brought up potential medical issues and questionable “facts.” He should have simply stated that he does not agree with the NFL findings, but will accept the suspension, and just let it go. Even as I try to view Cushing as a victim of a medical condition, his and his attorney’s supporting statements in themselves rule out their own intended implications. As a physician who has been involved in dealing with many of these potential medical issues, and as one who has been in touch with numerous internationally recognized sources, I find Cushing’s attorney’s advice/approach very distasteful and disingenuous, and additively destructive to what is already a difficult and serious situation in which one of our favorite players finds himself involved.

There may be some that disagree with what I have stated, and I certainly can accept that. But, besides what I have already written, I have to comment on the McClain article in the Chronicle. What kind of journalism on such a matter solely introduces the unsubstantiated statements of an attorney on issues, medical or otherwise........and does not even question those statements, or present statements from expert sources that challenge them?

No matter how one feels about this subject......in the end, the way that this whole issue has been made to play out has not served Cushing well.

CloakNNNdagger
05-16-2010, 11:25 AM
Cushing's "battery of tests" was ordered by the league

When Texans linebacker Brian Cushing disclosed on Thursday that he feared his elevated hCG level was evidence of a possible tumor, he attributed that information to no specific person.

"I was either injecting [hCG] or I had a tumor, as I was told by some sources, I played the whole season thinking I had tumors," Cushing said.

So who were the "sources" who told him he "had a tumor"? Apparently, they were the NFL.

A source with knowledge of the procedure has provided us with the relevant language routinely sent by the league to a player who tests positive for hCG (and, no, Cushing isn't the first one).

"This substance is found in urine from three main sources," the letter states, "taken as a performance enhancer from an outside source, production of HCG by a tumor or produced by a pregnant woman's placenta."

And the "battery of tests" that Cushing underwent didn't flow from Cushing's personal desire to rule out cancer, but from standard league protocol when a urine sample contains hCG.

"When a player tests positive for HCG, there is a physical exam that is suggested to determine if there is a tumor producing the substance," the letter states. The league-imposed testing includes: a diagnostic imaging CT scan of the chest, MRI of the brain with attention to the pituitary, and ultrasound of the testes. Also, a variety of blood tests are performed to rule out cancer.

Cushing possibly didn't explain that the league required him to undergo the evaluation because the evaluation is part of the league's effort to rule out a source of hCG other than an external one. The testing wasn't primarily aimed at giving Cushing a clean bill of health, but at painting him deeper into a corner as someone who used hCG (unless, of course, he somehow sprouted a placenta).

As the source explained it, "A negative result from this routine medical evaluation also rules out a legitimate explanation for having hCG in his body."

That's apparently why we've yet to get the full story from Cushing. He has twisted the league's standard practices when a player tests positive for hCG into a cancer scare that (although he didn't explain it so clearly on Thursday) was quickly resolved in a way that gave him a clean bill of health -- but that confirmed he had generated a dirty urine sample for which he consistently refuses to accept responsibility.



Steinberg continues belated damage control for Cushing

More than a week after news emerged that Texans linebacker Brian Cushing will be suspended four games for violating the league's policy regarding anabolic steroids and related substances, Cushing's lawyer has launched a belated effort to prop up his client's tattered image.

In so doing, Harvey Steinberg is keeping alive a story that, for Cushing's sake, needs to finally die.

Steinberg, who inexplicably was silent until a day after Cushing gave the most damning steroids-related public remarks since Mark McGwire refused to talk about the past, is now talking a blue streak in the apparent hopes of reversing the perception that Cushing is a cheater and a liar -- or at a minimum in the hopes of giving the shrinking corps of Cushing's supporters some ammunition when arguing the player's case at the nearest water cooler.

Steinberg's latest remarks come via John McClain of the Houston Chronicle. For starters, Steinberg discloses that Cushing was tested not once but twice before the league concluded that he had tested positive for hCG. That fact, standing alone, isn't surprising. Under the steroids policy, 10 players per team per week are tested during the preseason and the regular season. Once the roster is trimmed to 53, the chances of being tested in any given week are one in 5.3.

Steinberg says the first test resulted in an "A" sample that was "barely over the discernible legal limit" for hCG. The "B" bottle -- containing the other portion of the urine sample -- was negative. (In this regard, Steinberg claims that the "B" bottle is tested by a different lab. He's incorrect. Under the policy, the "A" bottle and the "B" bottle are tested at the same lab, but by different technicians.)

Cushing then was tested again "several weeks later." (It's unclear whether Steinberg means "several weeks after collection" or "several weeks after the results came back." This is a critical distinction; if Cushing knew in advance of the second sample that there was an issue with hCG, he would have been able to take steps to get it out of his system, or as the case may be he could have purchased a pre-owned Whizzinator.) The second time around, the "A" bottle was positive, and the "B" bottle was positive.

"When we inquired about the level [of the new 'A' bottle], we were told it was about the same as the original 'A' bottle, the first test," Steinberg said. "We were operating under the premise that we may well get a negative 'B' bottle, which would render this test negative as well."

OK, let's pause for a second. It's unreasonable to assume that the second "B" sample would be negative simply because the first "B" sample was negative. The analysis of the "A" sample and "B" sample are the same. Two tests are used as a protection for the player. In this case, three out of four tests on two separate samples given by Cushing were positive for hCG. But since the "B" sample on the first test was negative, Cushing ultimately was slapped with only one "positive" test.

Steinberg, a skilled litigator who knows a thing or two about gently obscuring certain aspects of reality when talking to a jury, also seems to suggest that the second test was an effort to "get" Cushing. "We tried to discern why he tested positive and why were there two separate tests on two separate occasions for this particular banned substance," Steinberg said.

Here's why he was tested on two separate occasions: because the steroids policy contemplates that 10 names randomly will be drawn each week during the preseason and the regular season for random testing. But, hey, why not ignore, you know, reality when trying to fashion a juicy conspiracy theory? (Moreover, there's a chance that the second sample was collected before the league knew the results of the "A" sample; that would further undermine the idea that the NFL was "out to get" him. Unfortunately, the confidentiality of the process prevents the league from setting the record straight in this regard.)

Steinberg also says that Cushing had a "pre-existing medical condition that was consistent with the natural production of hCG in males." But Steinberg points not to the notion that Cushing spent the entire season worried about cancer; instead, Steinberg claims that Cushing has an enlarged pituitary gland.

OK, but why then has Cushing not tested positive for hCG at any point after the test that resulted in his suspension? This fact continues to be the one most important fact that Cushing's camp continues to ignore. If he has a condition that is generating unusual amounts of natural hCG, Cushing should be continuing to test positive, right?

Apparently, he isn't.

And the occam's razor conclusion for this is that he's no longer testing positive for hCG because he's no longer ingesting hCG.

Then again, it's not completely clear that Cushing has not tested positive. We're assuming that he hasn't because, surely, evidence of the ongoing existence of hCG in his system (either as determined via NFL-implemented testing or private testing) would have helped avoid a suspension. Besides, someone (Cushing, agent Tom Condon, and/or Steinberg) would be expressly -- and loudly -- stating that Cushing continues to show abnormal amounts of naturally-produced hCG.

Instead, Steinberg demonstrates his lawyer skills by adroitly dancing around the topic. He says, "We did research and found out that his was a plausible explanation. We consulted an expert who suggested further testing. We became convinced that this was a situation that was naturally produced." But Steinberg never says that further tests showed high levels of hCG. If it were true, he'd be saying it. Heck, he'd be screaming it.

In the end, Steinberg seems to be claiming that Cushing experienced a short-term biological glitch -- that his body naturally produced enough hCG to trigger a suspension and that the condition apparently has resolved itself, just as naturally. But Steinberg has avoided directly making this contention, possibly because he knows it's even less plausible than Cushing's proclamation that he spent the balance of the 2009 season fearing death.

Making Steinberg's delayed explanation even less credible is the fact that we heard nothing about this supposedly valid explanation for an entire week after Cushing's suspension was announced. Think about that for a second -- Steinberg never bothered to help his client come up with a plan for seizing the upper hand in the P.R. battle by putting all of the cards on the table before the media or the fans were in a position to assume based on silence, inconsistent leaks (such as Cushing's private claim that he tested positive due to something a doctor had given him), and Cushing's train wreck of a press conference that the long-rumored juicer finally has been caught. Indeed, Cushing's camp knew for months that the day possibly was coming when Cushing would be suspended, and they all were caught flatfooted when it happened.

So it's hard not to be skeptical when we're now getting spin and carefully constructed half-truths from the lawyer who not only lost the appeal, but also lost the P.R. battle that he didn't even bother to show up for until it was far too late.
LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/15/steinberg-continues-belated-damage-control-for-cushing/)



The last word, possibly, on the Cushing case

In one of the all-time classic Seinfeld monologues, Kramer explains that, while driving a bus that had been hijacked, he kept making the stops because the passengers kept ringing the bell.

We're reminded of that one because when people want to know why keep writing about the Brian Cushing situation, a case that potentially has triggered a sea change regarding the public's attitude toward PEDs in pro football, the answer is simple -- Cushing's people keep talking about it.

One league source with knowledge of Cushing's situation hopes that the talking will now end.

"For the sake of his fellow players, Brian needs to direct his agent and lawyer to zip it," the source said. "He had a fair hearing. The NFLPA and the NFL know the full story. This little exercise is doing nothing other than casting a bad light over the claims of players either with legitimate appeals or legitimate disputes with the appeal process."

The source also points out that, while lawyer Harvey Steinberg generally introduced evidence as to the possibility that hCG may be naturally produced due to conditions other than the presence in the body of a tumor or a placenta, Steinberg failed to introduce evidence demonstrating that Cushing had any of the conditions that could naturally produce hCG.

Then there's the fact that the lingering Cushing apologists, most of whom reside in the 713, 832, or 281 area codes, fail to acknowledge the logical flaw inherent in the notion that Cushing had a condition that apparently caused him to "naturally produce" hCG for only a short period of time. The fact that Steinberg and Cushing have created the sense that this is a chronic problem for Cushing without directly stating that his urine continues to reveal the kind of hCG levels that would result in a violation of the NFL's steroids policy strongly suggests that this is an exercise in spin.

But if Cushing and/or Steinberg would like to have one more chance to set the record straight, we call on them to answer these questions:

1. What specific medical condition did (or does) Cushing have that is causing him to produce hCG naturally?

2. What are the specific dates on which Cushing has been tested, by the NFL or otherwise, for hCG?

3. What was the concentration of hCG measured in each sample?

We've yet to see the answers to these questions. And if the answers to these questions in any way help Cushing's position, we would have seen them at some point in the nine days since word of his suspension emerged.LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/16/the-last-word-possibly-on-the-cushing-case/)

infantrycak
05-16-2010, 11:35 AM
CnD, a couple questions. First Florio asserts in the 2nd piece, "if Cushing knew in advance of the second sample that there was an issue with hCG, he would have been able to take steps to get it out of his system." What techniques if any are their to get hcg out of your system and how reliable are they.

Second, Steinberg asserts one NFL expert stated the hcg couldn't have been naturally produced. That sounds either incompetent or misrepresented. I can't imagine a competent Doc saying hcg isn't naturally occurring. Don't you figure he really testified it couldn't be naturally occurring in sufficient amounts to fail an NFL test without an abnormal health condition?

Also would you verify or deny my assertion that McClain and other commentators that have referred to hcg as a masking agent are simply wrong?

As an aside, not commenting on the merits of what Florio has written, he sure is acting like a jilted girlfriend rather than an objective reporter.

Lucky
05-16-2010, 12:02 PM
Can this be fair to Cushing (or others who might find themselve in Cushing position) ? Apparently to be innocent of charges, the NFLs own experts(s) must agree unanimously...
We don't know for sure whether the 2 NFL experts disagreed on Cushing's position that the hCG was naturally caused. All we think we know is that they disagreed on the possibility of whether the hCG levels in Cushing could be naturally occurring. We don't have the transcripts, only hearsay from a lawyer (not that lawyers mislead or anything).


I’ve said previously, I like Cushing and I want to continue to support him. But, short of knowing every single little fact, no scenario thus far medically supports his stance. From a medical standpoint, the recent revelations by Cushing and his attorney are a series of highly selective facts and medical half-truths which are carefully constructed to present “reasonable doubt.” The is not court with its little tricks of who puts on the best show.......this is a medical issue where the truth and supporting facts are being sought.
I agree with everything you've said. And your posts are the sole source of legitimate information on these subjects, for me. However, I can't come down on Cushing just yet. And I'll give you 3 words why:

James Rodney Richard.

For those of you who don't know, J.R. Richard was a dominating pitcher for the Astros in the 70's. In 1980, Richard was having his best season ever, when he began to have "dead arm" issues. Richard's doctors could find nothing wrong, and many began to speculate that JR's real problem was the contract Nolan Ryan had been given in the previous offseason.

Shortly afterward, Richard collapsed while warming up for a start. He had had a major stroke due to an undetected condition. And that happens sometimes. The NFL has a policy and hopes it covers all possibilities. But some players could fall through the cracks. Due to what happened to JR, I'm not ready to pronounce Cushing's guilt or innocence. I'll just accept the suspension on terms that sometimes @&*! happens, and hope Cushing is healthy and this never crops up again.

ChampionTexan
05-16-2010, 12:28 PM
CnD, a couple questions. First Florio asserts in the 2nd piece, "if Cushing knew in advance of the second sample that there was an issue with hCG, he would have been able to take steps to get it out of his system." What techniques if any are their to get hcg out of your system and how reliable are they.

Second, Steinberg asserts one NFL expert stated the hcg couldn't have been naturally produced. That sounds either incompetent or misrepresented. I can't imagine a competent Doc saying hcg isn't naturally occurring. Don't you figure he really testified it couldn't be naturally occurring in sufficient amounts to fail an NFL test without an abnormal health condition?



I'll throw out another question for CnD.

I'm almost certain I've read somewhere (Maybe on this board, maybe in some of the mind-numbingly large amount of "information" that's been included in the media stories on this) that you can distinguish between naturally produced HcG and HcG that had been introduced to the body from external sources. If I'm remembering correctly, and this is true, shouldn't that be a pretty much cut and dry answer to where elevated levels came from (I know it hasn't been, but why would there still be any speculation at all if the source can be determined?)

infantrycak
05-16-2010, 01:00 PM
I'll throw out another question for CnD.

I'm almost certain I've read somewhere (Maybe on this board, maybe in some of the mind-numbingly large amount of "information" that's been included in the media stories on this) that you can distinguish between naturally produced HcG and HcG that had been introduced to the body from external sources. If I'm remembering correctly, and this is true, shouldn't that be a pretty much cut and dry answer to where elevated levels came from (I know it hasn't been, but why would there still be any speculation at all if the source can be determined?)

I relayed that from CnD in another Cushing thread. Yes there is a test to distinguish natural v. exogenous hcg. Now a question I failed to ask CnD is whether it will only identify synthetic exogenous hcg or can also detect natural hcg harvested from another person (if that is available).

CloakNNNdagger
05-16-2010, 01:00 PM
CnD, a couple questions.

First Florio asserts in the 2nd piece, "if Cushing knew in advance of the second sample that there was an issue with hCG, he would have been able to take steps to get it out of his system." What techniques if any are their to get hcg out of your system and how reliable are they.

Dilution of the urine sample by overloading with drinking water. When we test for pregnancy in women, we warn them not to drink any significant amount of water prior to testing. However, as a masking technique it is hit and miss depending on many factors. For example, are you dehydrated to begin with and any water you drink will only rehydrate your tissues and never significantly effect the urine output/volume? How long will it take the water you ingested to reach the the kidneys and then filtered into the bladder?

Second, Steinberg asserts one NFL expert stated the hcg couldn't have been naturally produced. That sounds either incompetent or misrepresented. I can't imagine a competent Doc saying hcg isn't naturally occurring. Don't you figure he really testified it couldn't be naturally occurring in sufficient amounts to fail an NFL test without an abnormal health condition?

As you concluded, it's inconceivable that the "head of toxicology of the NFL" would not acknowledge the potential natural production of insignificant amounts of HCG. His statement must have been made in the context of positive testing of the HCG.

Also would you verify or deny my assertion that McClain and other commentators that have referred to hcg as a masking agent are simply wrong?

HCG is not a masking agent in the intended definition. You would have to really stretch the definition of masking to include masking of the secondary consequences of anabolic steroid use (low testosterone levels-which would not be tested for anyway,......since urine testing is only meant to pick up high testosterone and ratios).

The Pencil Neck
05-16-2010, 01:14 PM
At this point, to me, things just don't quite add up. And two of these things are very, very fundamental to the whole thing.

1. Why hCG? Why would Brian Cushing take hCG?

hCG does not improve performance. hCG does not act as a masking agent. hCG used to be taken at the end of a steroid cycle to restart the normal production of testosterone but isn't used that way any more. Now, if it's used, it's normally used during a cycle.

In either of those two cases (taking it at the tail end of a cycle or taking it during a cycle), then shouldn't Cushing have tested positive for something ELSE in addition to the hCG?

If Cushing was tested twice and almost tested positive the first time and definitely tested positive the second time, then that would imply a steroid cycle between the two tests. And yet, he didn't test positive for steroids? That doesn't make sense.

2. Cushing's pre-existing condition

If Cushing had a pre-existing chronic condition with his pituitary, why does it just cause him to produce hCG at random times? Is that possible? Could something that takes place playing football cause hCG spikes?

On the face of it, this doesn't really make sense. If Cushing has a pituitary problem, I would expect the hCG to be continually elevated and possibly getting more and more elevated.

3. Who did Cushing see?

How many doctors did Cushing see after having the positive test? The article makes it seem like he only saw the doctors that the NFL forced him to see as part of the process while what Cushing and his lawyer said made it sound like he saw a bunch of doctors.

If he only saw the NFL doctors, then that's pretty damning to me. To me that shouts that he knew what caused the positive and he knew it wasn't a medical condition. Either that or he trusted the NFL doctors to find out what was wrong. And I find that hard to believe. If he saw doctors of his own choosing, that would seem much more like someone who was desperate to find out what was going on inside their body.


I've said before that I don't much care if he was taking or not taking, I just want him to never test positive for anything again and to keep playing at the same high level. But when presented with something like this, I can't help trying to figure it out. It's like a puzzle.

The Pencil Neck
05-16-2010, 01:17 PM
[SIZE="3"]
OK, let's pause for a second. It's unreasonable to assume that the second "B" sample would be negative simply because the first "B" sample was negative. The analysis of the "A" sample and "B" sample are the same.



I do not agree with this.

It's totally reasonable to assume that the second 'B' sample would be negative because the first one was.

You've got two labs performing the same test. Judging from the first tests, their procedures may be slightly different and yield slightly different results.

If it happened once, it's likely to happen again.

CloakNNNdagger
05-16-2010, 01:18 PM
I relayed that from CnD in another Cushing thread. Yes there is a test to distinguish natural v. exogenous hcg. Now a question I failed to ask CnD is whether it will only identify synthetic exogenous hcg or can also detect natural hcg harvested from another person (if that is available).

Maybe in a murder trial would you ever go through such intensive testings. However, immune assay (more likely in a case like this where the HCG would be recognized as a "foreign body") and genetic testing could be performed.

infantrycak
05-16-2010, 01:22 PM
Maybe in a murder trial would you ever go through such intensive testings. However, immune assay (more likely in a case like this where the HCG would be recognized as a "foreign body") and genetic testing could be performed.

That's what I thought because I seem to recall that having been done in cycling on testosterone.

CloakNNNdagger
05-16-2010, 01:22 PM
I do not agree with this.

It's totally reasonable to assume that the second 'B' sample would be negative because the first one was.

You've got two labs performing the same test. Judging from the first tests, their procedures may be slightly different and yield slightly different results.

If it happened once, it's likely to happen again.

ThePencilNeck,

The NFL Policy specifically states that both samples will be performed by the same laboratory........only using another technician.

The Pencil Neck
05-16-2010, 01:37 PM
ThePencilNeck,

The NFL Policy specifically states that both samples will be performed by the same laboratory........only using another technician.

Ah, well, there you go then. At least they have the procedure consistent.

But even so, it doesn't change my basic point. If you send two samples of the same draw to the same lab and get two different results once, that's no reason to assume it won't happen again.

infantrycak
05-16-2010, 08:56 PM
Ah, well, there you go then. At least they have the procedure consistent.

But even so, it doesn't change my basic point. If you send two samples of the same draw to the same lab and get two different results once, that's no reason to assume it won't happen again.

There is also no reason to believe it will happen again. Cushing pees into one cup and they divide into two samples. The vast majority of the time the results for the two are the same. The aberration is having them not come out the same.

devo-x
05-17-2010, 12:31 AM
I hope Cushing does pursue legal action against the NFL if the medical evidence about his preexisting condition (enlarged pituitary) clears him of any PED (steroid) use last season :thinking:

Ole Miss Texan
05-17-2010, 09:19 AM
I hope Cushing does pursue legal action against the NFL if the medical evidence about his preexisting condition (enlarged pituitary) clears him of any PED (steroid) use last season :thinking:

He said he wasn't... (but that doesn't mean he won't). I understand the sentiments here but I think Cushing just wants to move on and play and wouldn't want to stir up any controversy. What I could see him doing is sueing them for the lost pay for those 4 games he'd miss. This of course would have to be after the fact (or they'd just lift the suspension) and he'd have to have undisputed evidence that there was no way he should have been suspended.

b0ng
05-17-2010, 11:42 AM
Where was all the outrage when Calvin Pace was suspended last year?

ChampionTexan
05-17-2010, 01:18 PM
Where was all the outrage when Calvin Pace was suspended last year?

Pace pretty much admitted to having a banned substance in his system, and said he unknowingly got it from an OTC supplement. I think he did what some folks wish Cushing had done - simply say "Mea Culpa, I was stupid, and I won't be stupid again". Needless to say, Cush has gone in another direction.

Also, Pace had been in the league 6 years with no highly publicized steroid rumors (that I'm aware of) at the time of his suspension. Cush had played less than a month at the time he tested positive. This was following all sorts of steroid speculation that existed at least back to his USC days.

You can cry foul, and maybe it isn't fair, but there is a difference between the two.

infantrycak
05-17-2010, 01:31 PM
Well then how about Merriman who actually tested positive for steroids rather than something sometimes used with steroids and then denied using them in a way which could not be verified?

ChampionTexan
05-17-2010, 01:41 PM
Well then how about Merriman who actually tested positive for steroids rather than something sometimes used with steroids and then denied using them in a way which could not be verified?

I seem to remember a fair amount of backlash to the Merriman suspension - including it being the catalyst to the league ruling players who were suspended during a season being ineligible for "NFL" post-season honors.

Besides - what's the point? Even if Cushing is receiving more negative backlash than Merriman (or Pace), what's that signify?

infantrycak
05-17-2010, 01:46 PM
I seem to remember a fair amount of backlash to the Merriman suspension - including it being the catalyst to the league ruling players who were suspended during a season being ineligible for "NFL" post-season honors.

Besides - what's the point? Even if Cushing is receiving more negative backlash than Merriman (or Pace), what's that signify?

It doesn't matter. Like I said elsewhere trends turn and someone ends up the goat. Unfortunately that ended up Cushing.

But on Merriman, the fact that he received the post-season awards and was even considered for DMVP shows how little reaction there was to his proven steroid use. The backlash only came in response to the awards and particularly Jason Taylor calling him out about it. Then the media got all over it.

ChampionTexan
05-17-2010, 02:19 PM
It doesn't matter. Like I said elsewhere trends turn and someone ends up the goat. Unfortunately that ended up Cushing.

But on Merriman, the fact that he received the post-season awards and was even considered for DMVP shows how little reaction there was to his proven steroid use. The backlash only came in response to the awards and particularly Jason Taylor calling him out about it. Then the media got all over it.

Noted and understood.

It's tough is comparing things that happened more than three years ago to things we are in the middle of right now. Forest/Trees, Perspective/Lack thereof, not to mention having to wait and see how the next three years of Cush's career go.

I'd like to think that in 2013 this is nothing but a minor blip on the historical radar, that Cush is still a beast (a beast who has received no further suspensions, but has received post season honors for 2011* & 2012), and the NFL world will forget about all the uninformed/biased speculations and assumptions that were made (both defamatory and supportive) in Cush's case. It will then do the exact same thing when some other player (who doesn't play for the Texans) gets a four game suspension under the league's Steroid policy.

* If played.

c10x
05-17-2010, 11:41 PM
SIAP -

Joe Defranco is the sports performance coach who helped make Cushing the monster he is.

http://www.defrancostraining.com/index.php

DeFranco's Gym's stance on Brian Cushing's NFL suspension
Monday, May 10, 2010

Since Friday night, I've kept my mouth shut for one reason and one reason only - because Brian Cushing asked me to...and whenever family asks me to do something, I do it! And yes, I consider Cush my "little" brother from another mother...

Here's the deal:

Friday night I was eating dinner with my girlfriend and 2-year-old niece at a Jersey Diner when I see Brian Cushing's name appear on ESPN's ticker for violating the NFL's steroid policy. I was shocked! But, my first reaction was NOT, "Damn Cush, what the hell were you thinking?!" I immediately looked at my girlfriend and said, "There is NO FU#KING WAY Cush failed a steroid test! This is DEFINITELY a mistake...I gotta call him ASAP!" The reason I KNEW Cush didn't fail a steroid test is because I know Brian Cushing, the person. And I know FOR A FACT that he does NOT take anabolic steroids (even though I just saw it on ESPN). In fact, in all my years of training Cush, we've never even talked about steroids! So, unlike many of Cush's "friends" and "fans" who immediately threw him under the bus (I'm talking to you, Jay Glazer); I called Cush to get HIS story and show my support!

Once I got Cush on the phone, he tells me he's shocked at what's happening, but assures me he didn't fail for steroids. I believe him. Sure enough, the next day the term "steroids" has been replaced with "PED"...BIG DIFFERENCE. Yet, ESPN never issued any official retraction statement. Apparently, they don't think there's any difference between anabolic steroids and a category that's so big (and vague), it includes friggin' cough medicine!?!?

There is a LOT I want to say regarding the specifics of this story, but I'm not at liberty to speak about it because it's being handled by Cush's agent and attorney. So for now, I'm just going to address the topics that have been directed specifically towards me and my gym...

To all the people who said I "turned my back" on Cush when he's down...

Now you know that I called him the second I got the news...and I never doubted him. I called him to support him and get his side of the story.

The only reason I haven't said anything before this was because Cush asked me to "keep quiet" because his agent and attorney are handling the situation and he's very confident the facts will be revealed soon!

Here's a link to an article that appeared in New Jersey's most popular newspaper yesterday. Notice the title of the article, "Brian Cushing's Trainer Stands Behind Him". You may be interested in checking out the 12th paragraph where I say, "I'll goto my death and say Brian Cushing doesn't take steroids." Doesn't really sound like I "turned my back" on him, does it??

And finally, guess where Cush was this morning?? At my gym for two hours. We talked for an hour and he trained his ass off for an hour (as usual). And when my 12:00 crew rolled in guess what happened?? They were all pumped to see him and welcomed him back with open arms. No talk of this "situation"...wanna know why? Because no words need to be spoken when you're family. The guys at the gym know Brian Cushing, the person. They know he doesn't take steroids. They know his work ethic, insane disciple and his obsession with living a healthy lifestyle. No explanations needed...business as usual.

Oh, by the way, notice all the pictures of Cush are still on this website...nope, never took 'em down...never even crossed my mind!

To the "haters" who are telling local parents and kids that I "take" and "deal" steroids...

This is something I feel VERY STRONGLY about and it's why I'm seriously considering taking legal action. (And you guys know who you are. If not, I'll give you a hint...you BEGGED Cush to train with you, but he knew better...and you thought opening a gym 'just like mine' would be easy, but now you know better...ooops, did I give away too much??)

Every single person who knows me, knows my stance on anabolic steroids and drugs. I HAVE NEVER TAKEN, RECOMMENDED, SOLD, OR EVEN HELD IN MY HAND AN ANABOLIC STEROID OR ILLEGAL DRUG...EVER! This stance on steroids and drugs was instilled in me at a very young age by my father and it will stay with me until the day I die. This is the exact reason I opened up the type of gym I have - a "hardcore", "no frills" facility where we pride ourselves on out-working the competition! Saying that I "take" and "recommend" steroids at my gym is a completely slanderous statement that WILL get you in big legal trouble. Test me.

To the "outsiders" that have said, "The DeFranco Brand" is ruined...

This one actually made me laugh, but I'll address it anyway. I use the word "outsiders" because the only type of people that would make this statement are people that have NO CLUE what goes on inside the four walls of my gym! My gym is a family. And our family knows Brian Cushing, the person. Instead of my "brand" being ruined, it's actually quite the contrary. Today, while all of our haters were on the computer talking shit about us, we were having the busiest day of 2010 in the gym. (That's why I'm writing this at 1:00am, as opposed to a 'normal' hour.) Fifty-eight athletes walked through the doors of DeFranco's Gym today. Athletes ranged from 6th graders to NFL All-Pro's. And guess what...ALL 58 athletes AND parents support Brian Cushing 100%...because they know Brian Cushing, the person. They also know the type of person I am, as well as every other staff member at my gym. THOSE are the people we care about (the "insiders")...not the internet trolls, not the people who hate Brian Cushing because he's a better football player than they ever were; and we sure as hell don't care about any other "outsiders" who spend their days trying to knock other people down because they aren't happy with their own lives!



To conclude, I look forward to when Cush can speak out about this situation because it's being blown way out of proportion by the media. And I sure as hell hope the NFL doesn't strip him of his DEFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR & ALL-PRO Awards. Cush's "suspicious" test was in September...then he was re-tested numerous times throughout the entire season without ever failing. He EARNED those awards and DESERVES to keep them!

For now, I guess I can take comfort in knowing that he's learned early in his career who his true friends and fans are...and what true LOYALTY is all about.

Cush_sprinting_texans_red

We got your back, Cush!

-Joe D.

Lucky
05-18-2010, 12:12 AM
SIAP -

Joe Defranco is the sports performance coach who helped make Cushing the monster he is.

http://www.defrancostraining.com/index.php
This testimonial was covered in this thread last week. It is commendable that Defranco would support Cushing. But also understandable, as it would be in Defranco's best interest to deflect the possible use of PEDs from his gym.

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 12:25 AM
This testimonial was covered in this thread last week. It is commendable that Defranco would support Cushing. But also understandable, as it would be in Defranco's best interest to deflect the possible use of PEDs from his gym.

It would make more sense for Defranco to distance himself if there is any chance Cushing is on the Juice.

I'm saying this, because I believe Defranco's relationship with Cushing is more than just professional, and that he would have a clue. If he is as tight as he says he is, then he knows.

If it turns out that Brian is on Steroids, with that statement Defranco just put out, his gym, career, life is over.

c10x
05-18-2010, 08:33 AM
It would make more sense for Defranco to distance himself if there is any chance Cushing is on the Juice.

I'm saying this, because I believe Defranco's relationship with Cushing is more than just professional, and that he would have a clue. If he is as tight as he says he is, then he knows.

If it turns out that Brian is on Steroids, with that statement Defranco just put out, his gym, career, life is over.

Completely disagree. His gym is going to be just fine. The results speak for themselves across many many athletes.

His dvd 'Strong' is just AWESOME.

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 08:58 AM
Completely disagree. His gym is going to be just fine. The results speak for themselves across many many athletes.

His dvd 'Strong' is just AWESOME.

Follow me here. The results speak for themselves. Athletes are proof of those results. Brian Cushing is one of those athletes. Brian Cushing got popped for steroids. Brian's results are because of steroids. All of Defranco's clients must be on steroids.


Defranco has just made it clear that Brian is more than just a client. They are family. It makes it more difficult to distance himself if more evidence proves Brian is guilty.

At the very least, he should have kept his mouth shut... he would still be able to deny it later... like the MMA guys did.

The only way DeFranco should have said what he said, is if he is as close to Brian as he leads us to believe, and he knows for a fact that Brian does not use steroids.

Blake
05-18-2010, 04:52 PM
I thought this was commical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_syndrome

Cushing's syndrome (also called hyperadrenocorticism or hypercorticism) is a hormone (endocrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrinology)) disorder caused by high levels of cortisol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol) (hypercortisolism) in the blood. This can be caused by taking glucocorticoid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucocorticoid) drugs, or by tumors that produce cortisol or adrenocorticotropic hormone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenocorticotropic_hormone) (ACTH).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_syndrome#cite_note-0) Cushing's disease refers to one specific cause, a tumor (adenoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenoma)) in the pituitary gland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituitary_gland) that produces large amounts of ACTH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTH), which in turn elevates cortisol. It can usually be cured by surgery. It was described by Harvey Cushing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Cushing) in 1932.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_syndrome#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_syndrome#cite_note-obit-2)

JB
05-18-2010, 05:10 PM
Brian Cushing got popped for steroids. Wrong

Brian's results are because of steroids.
Speculation
All of Defranco's clients must be on steroids.
Really going all out heh?


Your post is full of fail

Double Barrel
05-18-2010, 05:28 PM
I thought this was commical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_syndrome

Cushing's syndrome (also called hyperadrenocorticism or hypercorticism) is a hormone (endocrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrinology)) disorder caused by high levels of cortisol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol) (hypercortisolism) in the blood. This can be caused by taking glucocorticoid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucocorticoid) drugs, or by tumors that produce cortisol or adrenocorticotropic hormone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenocorticotropic_hormone) (ACTH).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_syndrome#cite_note-0) Cushing's disease refers to one specific cause, a tumor (adenoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenoma)) in the pituitary gland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituitary_gland) that produces large amounts of ACTH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTH), which in turn elevates cortisol. It can usually be cured by surgery. It was described by Harvey Cushing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Cushing) in 1932.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_syndrome#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_syndrome#cite_note-obit-2)

Whoah! That's some crazy coincidence! :mcnugget:

Austrian
05-18-2010, 05:34 PM
I don't know if it reads in that article, but Morbus Cushing patients, male at that, are able to produce breast milk. That's kinda creepy.

edit: Meh couldn't find a source for that. So that's probably wrong, I'm pretty sure though I learned something like that in Anatomy. Kinda embarassing as I got an A in that test.

b0ng
05-18-2010, 05:43 PM
Mm tasty man-milk.

Texan_Bill
05-18-2010, 05:57 PM
Cush, get your credit card out and act now!!

http://lovelifelikeyourself.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/whizzinator-1000.jpg

HOU-TEX
05-18-2010, 06:01 PM
Mm tasty man-milk.

:backsout:

drewmar74
05-18-2010, 06:06 PM
Mm tasty man-milk.

:facepalm:

dude.....

thunderkyss
05-18-2010, 08:29 PM
Wrong

Speculation
Really going all out heh?


Your post is full of fail

Maybe I should have put a big IF in front of the whole post.

I don't believe any of that is true. I was responding to someone saying Joey Defranco's gym won't be negatively affected if it is later proven that Cushing took steroids.

I was just putting the pieces together, that Defranco must know something we don't (like Brian Cushing as a person) to stand so emphatically behind him in this situation. Otherwise, it could be the end of his enterprise.
It would make more sense for Defranco to distance himself if there is any chance Cushing is on the Juice.

I'm saying this, because I believe Defranco's relationship with Cushing is more than just professional, and that he would have a clue. If he is as tight as he says he is, then he knows.

If it turns out that Brian is on Steroids, with that statement Defranco just put out, his gym, career, life is over.

Completely disagree. His gym is going to be just fine. The results speak for themselves across many many athletes.

His dvd 'Strong' is just AWESOME.

Follow me here. The results speak for themselves. Athletes are proof of those results. Brian Cushing is one of those athletes. Brian Cushing got popped for steroids. Brian's results are because of steroids. All of Defranco's clients must be on steroids.


Defranco has just made it clear that Brian is more than just a client. They are family. It makes it more difficult to distance himself if more evidence proves Brian is guilty.

At the very least, he should have kept his mouth shut... he would still be able to deny it later... like the MMA guys did.

The only way DeFranco should have said what he said, is if he is as close to Brian as he leads us to believe, and he knows for a fact that Brian does not use steroids.

rmartin65
05-18-2010, 08:31 PM
Mm tasty man-milk.

Man, you are lucky I am in a good mood. Because that is neg-rep worthy.

On the other hand...

http://www.harvardcommonpress.com/images/breast-milk-billboard.jpg

JB
05-18-2010, 08:31 PM
Maybe I should have put a big IF in front of the whole post.

I don't believe any of that is true. I was responding to someone saying Joey Defranco's gym won't be negatively affected if it is later proven that Cushing took steroids.

I was just putting the pieces together, that Defranco must know something we don't (like Brian Cushing as a person) to stand so emphatically behind him in this situation. Otherwise, it could be the end of his enterprise.

Ok, thanks for clarifying that. I thought you were starting to lose it

CloakNNNdagger
05-20-2010, 08:49 AM
I placed a Thread in the Other Sports Talk section. But I felt that this would still be of interest for those following the Cushing case. At least in the case of cyclist Landis, after all this time, we find that things are not always what a "player" would want to make us believe.

Even back in 2006, the experts couldn't explain his "screwy" high testosterone to low epitestosterone positive test........at which time he denied any drug use or manipulation vehemently saying that these results were a result of natural hormonal thyroid abnormalities which he was treated for and cortisone shots he received for an arthritic hip (anticipating surgery). Now there IS an explanation.


Landis admits drug use, claims Armstrong used (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37247426/ns/sports-other_sports/)

Floyd Landis, the only cyclist to lose his Tour de France title due to doping violations, admitted to ESPN.com and The Wall Street Journal that he used performance enhancing drugs throughout his career.

He also claims several other cyclists — including former teammate and seven-time Tour De France champion Lance Armstrong — used performance enhancing drugs and that team managers, owners all knew of the drug use.

Armstrong did not respond to messages seeking comment from the Journal. He has been accused of doping several times during his career, which has always denied. Armstrong also has never been sanctioned.
Landis says he doesn't have documentation for many of his claims.

Landis sent at least three e-mails to cycling and anti-doping officials, ESPN and the Journal reported, detailing his drug use and accusations, particularly with American riders. He claims that he and other American riders learned how to conduct blood transfusions, take the synthetic blood booster Erythropoietin, or EPO, and use steroids.

One e-mail, dated April 30 and addressed to Stephen Johnson, the president of USA Cycling, alleges that Armstrong's longtime coach, Johan Bruyneel, introduced Landis to blood doping and human growth hormone in 2002 and 2003, according to the Journal. Armstrong then helped Landis understand how the drugs worked.

"He and I had lengthy discussions about it on our training rides during which time he also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing and how transfusions were now necessary due to the inconvenience of the new test," he wrote in an e-mail published by the Journal.


You may want to reveiw the 2006 HAPPENINGS surrounding this event (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2006-07-27-landis-drug-test_x.htm)when the accusations were fresh and Landis' explanations puzzling.

If the MODS wish that I delete this post in this thread, please let me know.

arigold
05-20-2010, 04:14 PM
what is the record on here for pages?

b0ng
05-20-2010, 05:10 PM
what is the record on here for pages?

Mario had a thread dedicated to him in the 2007 pre-season when he logged a 0's game. I believe it went to like 50 or 60 pages.

MightyTExan
05-21-2010, 03:29 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/
Bill Romanowski calls Brian Cushing a liar

In an appearance earlier today on Sirius XM's Mad Dog Radio, Romanowski discussed the recent four-game suspension imposed on Texans linebacker Brian Cushing, who tested positive for hCG last September.

"[H]ere's the deal," Romanowski said, "The only way you can get that substance that he took, hCG, in your body is to inject it, okay? So let's get that clear. So his sob story on TV was, I'm just going to say, was a total lie, okay?

"Do you think when he was getting injected in his ass that he didn't know what was going on? Well, bullcrap. Let's get real. Be honest about it, Brian. I'm sorry you got caught but be honest about it. What that substance is is a substance from pregnant women's urine and what it does is when you have taken a cycle of steroids it turns your system back on from being shut down. It is very, very common in bodybuilding. That is a bodybuilding supplement, or a bodybuilding drug, where when these bodybuilders go on massive doses of steroids for months at a time, they will take that drug to turn their normal system back on and get it working again."

Rey
05-21-2010, 04:04 PM
what is the record on here for pages?

Mario had a thread dedicated to him in the 2007 pre-season when he logged a 0's game. I believe it went to like 50 or 60 pages.

Are we talking football related threads or just in general?

The babe of the day thread easily eclipses this...Also the random thought of the day thread is enourmous as well...I'm sure there are others

Section516
05-21-2010, 04:13 PM
Are we talking football related threads or just in general?

The babe of the day thread easily eclipses this...Also the random thought of the day thread is enourmous as well...I'm sure there are others

Last one to post win thread..

b0ng
05-21-2010, 06:20 PM
Are we talking football related threads or just in general?

The babe of the day thread easily eclipses this...Also the random thought of the day thread is enourmous as well...I'm sure there are others

I would think that off-topic threads shouldn't count cause some of those guys have been going on for awhile now.

Still though, this is the first Texan busted for substances and suspended from the NFL right?+

ATXtexanfan
05-21-2010, 09:03 PM
i believe he's innocent, boom 10 more pages