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devo-x
05-08-2010, 11:12 PM
:popcorn:

JB
05-08-2010, 11:21 PM
:popcorn:

Dude! You can't just start off a page like that!

CloakNNNdagger
05-09-2010, 12:50 AM
I just realized another thing that hasn't been mentioned here. There are currently no available methods for testing for HGH. And Cushing can now afford to take it (it costs thousands of dollars a month). So steroids or no steroids, there's nothing stopping him from using HGH from now on.


HGH urine testing as attempted by sports entities has so far proven to be elusive and inaccurate. However, for several years now, endocrinologists have routinely utilized and relied on the results of serum (blood) IGF-1 and HGH tests. This has especially become important due to the strong relationship of these substances (increased levels) with numerous common CANCERS.

A recent (Feb 25, 2010) landmark case recognized by the World Anti-Doping Agencies has affirmed the validity of the test. (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/25/sports/la-sp-hgh-tests25-2010feb25) Of course, attornies will try to "play" with the facts to put the test into question. But this will never happen, as the medical community has already asserted its utility and validity.

The NFL this year told its players union of its interest in testing for HGH.

"Our position is that HGH blood testing has advanced to the point where we are taking steps to incorporate it into our program," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said. "Blood work is part of our players' annual physical. We do have mandatory blood testing already."

An NFL Players Assn. representative has said "there's no reason" to implement blood testing at this time, but Aiello said a request by the league to do so can be done "between now and training camp," in advance of collective-bargaining sessions, with the opportunity to have testing in place before the 2010 season.

"The argument that there's no longer a valid test no longer holds water," said Dr. Gary Wadler, chairman of WADA's prohibited list. "There's now a positive, the test is commercially produced. There's no excuses to hide from testing anymore, and the pressure is on all sports leagues to implement blood testing.

steelbtexan
05-09-2010, 12:54 AM
Anyone hoping that this is an accidental positive test because of some harmless dietary supplement that happens to be on the banned list is going to be disappointed I think.

Cushing was very careful and direct about what he put into his body. No way was this an accident.



Guess we can add liar to his list of accomplishments?



Posted this last night, I think, but can't find it

Dont care

Just want to see the Texans in the playoffs in 2010.

Smithiak drafted Cushing so I dont want to hear Cushing had been here excuse we would have made the playoffs.

wagonhed
05-09-2010, 01:02 AM
HGH urine testing as attempted by sports entities has so far proven to be elusive and inaccurate. However, for several years now, endocrinologists have routinely utilized and relied on the results of serum (blood) IGF-1 and HGH tests. This has especially become important due to the strong relationship of these substances (increased levels) with numerous common CANCERS.

A recent (Feb 25, 2010) landmark case recognized by the World Anti-Doping Agencies has affirmed the validity of the test. (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/25/sports/la-sp-hgh-tests25-2010feb25) Of course, attornies will try to "play" with the facts to put the test into question. But this will never happen, as the medical community has already asserted its utility and validity.
Very interesting. I haven't read anything on the subject for a couple years, but it looks like they have made big steps. Unfortunately.

Oh another thing, HGH is very easy to get a prescription for and, of course, isn't illegal with a scrip. So moving to test for it is just another lame attempt to pretend that the NFL is concerned with drugs.

Texanmike02
05-09-2010, 01:12 AM
Actually the more I think about this, the more I think it could very well be an accidental positive of some secondary banned substance. And by secondary I mean one of the hundreds of strange ancillary drugs on the banned list that aren't actually steroids.

Cushing being the workout and diet fanatic that he is has got to know all of the testing times for the different drugs. Surely he has been using the short ester compounds to avoid testing positive. If not, then he really is a dumb ****er. To know that much about diet and exercise and not even know which steroids to avoid.

So I'm thinking that he knew exactly what he was doing with steroids and somehow, from a doctor or some accessory drug, got one of the other strange banned substances that lasts a lot longer in your blood/fat cells. The other possibility is that he was taking a form of nandrolone in college, which is the steroid that lasts up to 2 years in your blood, and he tested positive for it way after the fact.

Ok so let me break this down for my own benefit.


Option 1: Cushing has been using long-ester steroids at some point in the last 6-12 months and tested positive for those. This would mean he is literally a ****ing retard, considering that there are equivalents that only stay in your system for 3 days.


Option 2: He tested positive for a super-long ester steroid that he was taking in college. This is the kind that Stephan Bonnar tested positive for a few years ago. Any athlete in a tested organization taking these compounds is a ****ing *****.

Option 3: He was using the short-ester steroids properly so he didn't test positive for those, but popped for an ancillary drug that he wasn't aware of or wasn't aware of the time they remain in your system (I don't think information on many ancillaries is as well known as the detection time for the actual steroids). This is the option I'm hoping for because it means he was smart about what he was using and most likely got burned either by his doctor or by some obscure drug mixed in with something he was taking that he thought was legit.


I have a couple more thoughts. To begin with, yeah, I don't think there is any way he is not taking steroids or at least has taken them at some point in the last couple years. One thing about steroids is you don't just stay on them. You take them for a couple months and then you come off after getting your results.

Another thing is that there are tons of over-the-counter supplements that have substances on the NFL banned list. It is entirely possible, I would say likely even, that Cushing was taking one of these types of things and got burned. Many of this type of supplement, the ones that are designed for muscle-building, contain chemical derivatives of male hormones. The thing is that when the NFL or whoever "tests" for a certain compound, they are not actually testing for that and only that compound. Derivative compounds that are not banned can trigger positives for other compounds that are banned. This kind of thing has been going on since the whole "Andro" affair in the 90s.

And since I'm rambling, I'll go on. These days there are actually a lot of different OTC supplements that are similar in potency to steroids. The difference is that they are getting much, MUCH more dangerous, because they have extra molecular components attached to them that get filtered out by the liver and kidneys. Long story short, many legal supplements actually give a lot of the same results as steroids but will destroy your body 5x faster, and many of these are not yet banned by the NFL because they keep producing new ones with cutting edge technology. If you think that NFL players avoid steroids because they are illegal, you can be damn sure that they are taking these cutting-edge legal supplements and ****ing up their body a lot faster with them. And on that topic, this is one of the many reasons I think steroids should be legalized in the normal world and in sports, because making them illegal causes that much more damage to the health of the players who have to take the dangerous OTC stuff to keep up.

:rant:

So, it was my son's birthday on Thursday. I got him a Ryans' jersey. He saw the report on TV today and asked what "That Texan guy" did wrong. I told him he cheated. He asked how and I told him he used a drug that made him faster and stronger... then he asked if he meant to. I told him that he makes so much money he should know exactly what goes into his body and it doesn't really matter if he knew or not.

How in the world could you write a post like this? Personality conflict aside... really? It doesn't matter what substance he was using or how stupid he was in doing it, let me break it down for you like this:

He is young and stupid. Lets hope he learns from his mistake and does not partake in or continue this behavior any more. It is a useful tool for me to talk to my son about the importance of integrity... not about how to make sure you game the system correctly. I do NOT want to have the discussion about this guy again.

I just lost a lot of respect for him.

Mike

CloakNNNdagger
05-09-2010, 01:16 AM
For those wanting to look at the most current HGH state of testing.

NEW YORK TIMES March 28, 2010
New Tool Could Help in Testing for H.G.H. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/sports/29hgh.html?pagewanted=print)

A test similar to one used in cancer treatments has antidoping officials encouraged that they have found a new, and important, way to catch athletes using human growth hormone.

The test uses the same science that detects bone and breast cancer. A laboratory technician takes several milliliters of blood and spins the sample in a centrifuge. The blood is then mixed with chemicals, a reaction occurs and an instrument is used to measure the illumination in the blood.

The intensity of the light, antidoping experts say, signals whether the person has used H.G.H. over the past 10 to 14 days. The procedure is known as the biomarkers test.

Antidoping officials are usually eager to trumpet new testing methods, and skeptics have at times accused them of overstating scientific developments. Nevertheless, the officials maintain that the biomarkers test is a significant advancement over the current test for human growth hormone. That test can only detect H.G.H. that has been used in the previous 24 to 48 hours.

Officials for the World Anti-Doping Agency, which oversees the testing protocols of Olympic athletes and many professional athletes outside the United States, said that after more than a decade of research, the biomarkers test was only months from being put into use on athletes.

The introduction of the test by WADA will probably intensify the debate over H.G.H. blood testing that is taking place in Major League Baseball and the N.F.L. The debate intensified last month after a professional rugby player in England was suspended after testing positive for H.G.H. It was the first time that an athlete had been suspended for an H.G.H. positive in the six years that testing has been used, and it clearly made an impression on officials in baseball and the N.F.L.

Since the suspension, the N.F.L. has said that it has asked its players union to accept blood testing for H.G.H. Baseball’s commissioner, Bud Selig, has asked his deputies to pursue the quick implementation of the existing H.G.H. test in the minor leagues, where the consent of baseball’s players union is not required.

In turn, officials of the two unions have expressed reservations about the existing test, which they point out has caught only one athlete. Adding to their caution is that there has never been blood testing for performance-enhancing drugs in either league.

But even as the H.G.H. debate continues, the science of H.G.H. testing has progressed.

David Howman, the director general of WADA, said that he believed that the biomarkers test would make it harder for anyone in the N.F.L. and Major League Baseball to argue that there were not viable tests for H.G.H.

“The other test is scientifically reliable, and so is the new one,” Howman said. “Anyone who tells you otherwise hasn’t looked at the science.”

According to antidoping officials, the creators of the test said that they set the threshold for a positive extremely high, similar to other levels used in tests conducted by WADA.

H.G.H. is a naturally occurring substance in the body. Injections of it are believed to decrease fat and increase muscle growth. In any number of instances, it has been used by athletes who are rehabilitating after injuries. In the United States, it is illegal to possess H.G.H. without a prescription, and its use as a performance-enhancer is banned by all major sports around the world.

“H.G.H. has been used with great impunity since the 1970s,” Howman said. “It’s very available to athletes. They use it freely, and they usually don’t use things that can’t help them.”

The biomarkers test detects chemicals in the body that are raised when H.G.H. levels spike; the existing blood test simply detects the presence of synthetic H.G.H. Because the tests take different measurements, antidoping officials say that both will be used in the future.

“They are complementary,” said Larry Bowers, the chief science officer for the United States Anti-Doping Agency. “The biomarkers test can’t detect use in the first 48 hours, so that is why you use both of them. It’s another tool for us to use.”

Travis Tygart, the head of Usada, said: “It’s obviously very significant and it is why over the past several years, we have invested money in not just the direct test but the new marker test. We knew that the two of them would provide a significant deterrent.”

The N.F.L.’s top drug testing official, Adolpho Birch, said in a statement that the league was aware of the biomarkers test and was following its development.

“Our advisers keep us informed on the scientific progress and we are in regular contact with Usada and WADA officials,” Birch said. “The Partnership for Clean Competition, a research consortium that we founded along with other partners, recently held a conference at which the state of the research in this area was thoroughly discussed.”

A spokesman for the N.F.L. Players Association did not return e-mail or telephone messages seeking comment. Nor did a spokesman for the baseball players union. Rob Manfred, baseball’s top drug-testing official, said in a statement that the commissioner’s office was looking into the test and consulting with its medical adviser.

The antidoping officials, meanwhile, said they were in the final stages of reviewing the science behind the biomarkers test.

“At the end of the day, it’s about clean athletes,” Tygart said. “They ought to demand it. You don’t want to play in a sport where you don’t have the capabilities of testing for potent substances like human growth hormone that are significant performance-enhancers.”

steelbtexan
05-09-2010, 01:18 AM
Agreed

The NFL is like the boy that cried wolf.

When it comes to drug testing.

A little too late.

Lawrece Taylor played his whole career all coked up. Ask Hollywood Henderson, That was back in the 70's when just about all of the Steelers OL played. They all have died from something related to steroids.

About 20-25% of the NFL payers are using some kind of PED's in 2010. IMHO and this is with improved testing. Unfortunately Cushing got popped.

wagonhed
05-09-2010, 01:27 AM
The doping war is a war they can't win. Soon enough people will be getting genetic modifications. Like I said in the other thread, nothing short of a Big Brother type of doping system will prevent it. It's all just part of a pointless moral crusade by the government, driven by the moral majority, and sports industry trying to tow the line.

steelbtexan
05-09-2010, 01:35 AM
The doping war is a war they can't win. Soon enough people will be getting genetic modifications. Like I said in the other thread, nothing short of a Big Brother type of doping system will prevent it. It's all just part of a pointless moral crusade by the government, driven by the moral majority, and sports industry trying to tow the line.

While I could care less if all of the NFL players are using steroids.

The Big Brother concepts are BS.

The NFL has the power to make the federal government give them the latest updates on drug testing.

They hire the best scientists to work for them. Look at NASA, This is something that the people that got laid off can make a career out of.

wagonhed
05-09-2010, 01:39 AM
While I could care less if all of the NFL players are using steroids.

The Big Brother concepts are BS.

The NFL has the power to make the federal government give them the latest updates on drug testing.

They hire the best scientists to work for them. Look at NASA, This is something that the people that got laid off can make a career out of.
I'm not sure you understood what I meant. I'm not saying they won't find a way to test for whatever new thing comes out. I'm saying that the only way they are ever going to eliminate performance enhancement from sports is a Big Brother type system, where every single player is tested every single week, blood and urine, etc. Until they implement a policy super-invasive like that, PEDs are going to remain prominent in the NFL.

wagonhed
05-09-2010, 01:43 AM
I'm not being a smartass. In this forum I try to put aside our political disagreements and discuss things as fellow Texans fans. There will be other disagreements but politics shouldn't figure into our disagreements here.

Mike
Ok well, I wasn't trying to get into a talk about politics, but thanks anyway for "correcting" me.

steelbtexan
05-09-2010, 01:44 AM
I'm not sure you understood what I meant. I'm not saying they won't find a way to test for whatever new thing comes out. I'm saying that the only way they are ever going to eliminate performance enhancement from sports is a Big Brother type system, where every single player is tested every single week, blood and urine, etc. Until they implement a policy super-invasive like that, PEDs are going to remain prominent in the NFL.

Agreed

I misunderstood what you were saying.

On this topic you are SPOT ON.

LOL

wagonhed
05-09-2010, 01:47 AM
How in the world could you write a post like this? Personality conflict aside... really? It doesn't matter what substance he was using or how stupid he was in doing it, let me break it down for you like this:

He is young and stupid. Lets hope he learns from his mistake and does not partake in or continue this behavior any more.
Wait a second. You are going to "break it down for me" and then go on to make the profound insight that Cushing "is young and stupid" and you "hope he learns from his mistake". Wow, you really showed me what was up. lol.

I barely even know what you're talking about let alone why you responded to my post just to say that and start talking about your son.

BrandonLwowski
05-09-2010, 01:55 AM
On espn it says a non-steroidal substance abuse...who knows maybe he smokes the pipe.

beerlover
05-09-2010, 02:07 AM
this is totaly stupid & needs to be squashed. Texans fans will not be able to see Brain Cushing play @ Relient until week 9 this is BS :bat: if Ben Roethlisberger serves his entire 6 game suspension (alleged rape) his first home game will be in week 10 against the Patriots, but if he gets this reduced to four games as expected his first home game could be week 5 against Cleveland. Not only that the schedule the NFL gave the Texans is much harder the first four weeks than the Steelers :cutthroat:

I'm just a draft guy & don't really understand how NFL policies/rules are enforced but this is just wrong. this is the equivalent of Chris Brown/Ryan Moats muffing games away on the goaline along with Kris Brown missing kicks, far as game breakers Is there anything as fans we can do to write the NFL expressing our displeasure with this decision?

Grid
05-09-2010, 07:31 AM
Apparently its ok to belittle and insult our players, but not the posters on this forum.

I had made a reply to Lucky that was relevant and, in my opinion, further explained why I feel that you people who are jumping to conclusions are both incorrect and shameful.

But, you are only allowed to insult the players here.. not the fans. So Lucky removed my post and warned me that ill be banned if I dont stop attacking those of you who are attacking cushing.

Incidentally..Awtysst.. I did reply to your comment as well.

You have succeed in essentially flushing your reputation down the drain in my eyes with that last comment. There are ways to react when you are passionate about a topic and that was not it.

The part of my post that you bolded was very obviously a joke. I do not think that people ACTUALLY eat crow when they are proven wrong, so it would be hard for them to choke to death on imaginary crow. Cant say that im all that worried about my reputation here either.

Grams
05-09-2010, 07:34 AM
Doesn't matter what he took, why he took it, he tested positive for a banned substance.

He has lost a lot of respect and it will take quite a while to get that back.

Lucky
05-09-2010, 09:17 AM
this is totaly stupid & needs to be squashed. Texans fans will not be able to see Brain Cushing play @ Relient until week 9 this is BS
Texan fans will be able to see Brian Cushing play @ Reliant on week 5, versus the NY Giants.

A lot of fans here feel there is a rush to judgment, and that any comments or opinions should be held until the "facts" come out. The problem with that is, "facts" coming from the NFL will not be released, per the CBA agreement with the NFLPA. The only "facts" we will get will be from Cushing. At this point, Cushing has been less than totally candid regarding his suspension.

Which is fine. As fans, we do not need the explicit details of what test he failed, nor why. The only thing that should be important is if Cushing is on the field. He won't be for the first quarter of the regular season schedule, and that's disappointing.

But, to assume the NFL arbiterily tests for drugs that can easily give a false positive seems naive, at best. The list of banned substances were agreed to in contract by the NFL and the NFLPA. My guess is that a lot of thought and debate went into what is on that list. The overwhelming majority of NFL players do not test positive for these substances. Was Brian Cushing the only NFL player to get sick last season? Could he not have gone to a team physician, who is aware of the banned substances, for treatment? For some of us, it's a real stretch to assume this was an innocent mistake. And the "facts" from all sides will never be known. At best, Brian Cushing used poor judgment. I think one thing everyone can agree on is the hope that he will exercise better judgment in the future.

TexanExile
05-09-2010, 09:41 AM
But, to assume the NFL arbiterily tests for drugs that can easily give a false positive seems naive, at best. The list of banned substances were agreed to in contract by the NFL and the NFLPA. My guess is that a lot of thought and debate went into what is on that list.

Exactly. This is a for-profit league, driven by the putting the best product on the field. No freaking way they're just out randomly picking off the league's stars with unreliable tests--if I had to guess about this secrecy-shrouded process, I'd actually guess they give the player whatever advantage they can in the testing process without compromising the process' integrity altogether. (Especially if that little edge helps their "product" run a little faster, or hit a little harder.) Admittedly, that's just a guess.

The NFL needs its best players on the field to drive ticket sales and (far more importantly) TV dollars. A capricious testing program drives nothing but a weaker product and bad press. This league didn't get to be the biggest game in town by accident.

CloakNNNdagger
05-09-2010, 09:58 AM
Texan fans will be able to see Brian Cushing play @ Reliant on week 5, versus the NY Giants.

A lot of fans here feel there is a rush to judgment, and that any comments or opinions should be held until the "facts" come out. The problem with that is, "facts" coming from the NFL will not be released, per the CBA agreement with the NFLPA. The only "facts" we will get will be from Cushing. At this point, Cushing has been less than totally candid regarding his suspension.

Which is fine. As fans, we do not need the explicit details of what test he failed, nor why. The only thing that should be important is if Cushing is on the field. He won't be for the first quarter of the regular season schedule, and that's disappointing.

But, to assume the NFL arbiterily tests for drugs that can easily give a false positive seems naive, at best. The list of banned substances were agreed to in contract by the NFL and the NFLPA. My guess is that a lot of thought and debate went into what is on that list. The overwhelming majority of NFL players do not test positive for these substances. Was Brian Cushing the only NFL player to get sick last season? Could he not have gone to a team physician, who is aware of the banned substances, for treatment? For some of us, it's a real stretch to assume this was an innocent mistake. And the "facts" from all sides will never be known. At best, Brian Cushing used poor judgment. I think one thing everyone can agree on is the hope that he will exercise better judgment in the future.


http://m1.cdn.spikedhumor.com/1/72997_147a73611_vw.jpg


In the NFL, just like in Medicine, it is sad when common sense does not allow one to follow sound advice........then results in undesirable consequences which should have been of no surprise to anyone.

Dan B.
05-09-2010, 10:33 AM
Texan fans will be able to see Brian Cushing play @ Reliant on week 5, versus the NY Giants.

A lot of fans here feel there is a rush to judgment, and that any comments or opinions should be held until the "facts" come out. The problem with that is, "facts" coming from the NFL will not be released, per the CBA agreement with the NFLPA. The only "facts" we will get will be from Cushing. At this point, Cushing has been less than totally candid regarding his suspension.

Which is fine. As fans, we do not need the explicit details of what test he failed, nor why. The only thing that should be important is if Cushing is on the field. He won't be for the first quarter of the regular season schedule, and that's disappointing.

But, to assume the NFL arbiterily tests for drugs that can easily give a false positive seems naive, at best. The list of banned substances were agreed to in contract by the NFL and the NFLPA. My guess is that a lot of thought and debate went into what is on that list. The overwhelming majority of NFL players do not test positive for these substances. Was Brian Cushing the only NFL player to get sick last season? Could he not have gone to a team physician, who is aware of the banned substances, for treatment? For some of us, it's a real stretch to assume this was an innocent mistake. And the "facts" from all sides will never be known. At best, Brian Cushing used poor judgment. I think one thing everyone can agree on is the hope that he will exercise better judgment in the future.

Well we did have the swine flu outbreak from OD. Be interesting if players from teams that dealt with the flu last year test positive at a higher rate.

PHAROAH
05-09-2010, 10:54 AM
not good with our tough schedule looks like Sharpton will a lot of playing time.

steelbtexan
05-09-2010, 12:09 PM
Ok dude. You need to wake up and realize that people in the NFL use steroids. If Brian Cushing pledges to never use any drug that might harm his body ever again, he will fade away into obscurity. If that's what he wants, fine with me. He can be like Frank Okam and Amobi Okoye who care about other things more than they care about football. There's certainly nothing wrong with that, and I have better feelings towards those two than a lot of people on this board.

But I think anyone that thinks Cushing wants to take that route is on crack. I think we all know what Cushing wants to do, and that is play football and be the best. If that turns out wrong and he quits football and go back to school, I'll eat my words. But I'm not banking on it.

I disagree with you on most of the political stuff.

But you are SPOT ON when it comes to the steroid stuff.

People dont realize that steroids are prescribed daily to help the elderly maintain a better quality of life. It makes sense if this is the case it should help with the quality of life for younger people too.

I do know that the government has said steroids are bad and there are some people who just parrott what material the government puts out.

BTW: What % of people in the military do you think are using?

I have no problems with a angry roided up (in great shape) soldier going into batte and helpig protect this country.

Whatever Cushing is putting into his body is none of my or anybody elses business.

Lucky
05-09-2010, 01:04 PM
Whatever Cushing is putting into his body is none of my or anybody elses business.
You're missing the central point. It doesn't matter what you, I, or Brian Cushing think about steroid use/abuse. What matters is what the NFL and the NFLPA think about it, and how they govern it. If you are caught using steroids, or making agents, you will be suspended. If you continue their use, and continue to get caught, you will no longer be able to play in the league.

This reminds of the many marijuana in the NFL threads. Many here do not see the harmful effects of marijuana, if they even exist. But, those opinions don't count. What counts is what the league and the players' union agrees to.

As you said, what Cushing does or doesn't do to his body is not our business. What is our business, when we pay good money for the Texans product, is to see their best players on the field. And when Cushing is suspended for violating terms he agreed to when he signed a legal contract, he is denying fans from seeing the best product possible. Brian Cushing is not a grandma or a soldier. He's an NFL player who should abide by his contract.

wagonhed
05-09-2010, 01:06 PM
I disagree with you on most of the political stuff.

But you are SPOT ON when it comes to the steroid stuff.

People dont realize that steroids are prescribed daily to help the elderly maintain a better quality of life. It makes sense if this is the case it should help with the quality of life for younger people too.

I do know that the government has said steroids are bad and there are some people who just parrott what material the government puts out.

BTW: What % of people in the military do you think are using?

I have no problems with a angry roided up (in great shape) soldier going into batte and helpig protect this country.

Whatever Cushing is putting into his body is none of my or anybody elses business.
Steroids have a lot of potential health benefits. I would never recommend using them before 21 or so but I've known a lot of people who did anyway and it didn't hurt them. One of the biggest problems with steroids, like other drugs made illegal, is there is no regulation or anything and people can't go to their doctor for advice. That's when they become dangerous. If they were legal people could have free information about how to take them and not mess up their body and health incidents from using would probably go WAY down.

As to the military, I knew of about a dozen people in my company that were using in Afghanistan. Back at Camp Lejeuene, I can only estimate... but I had direct contact with probably 15 or so people that were using and I wouldn't have been surprised if there were another dozen more. Just in my company of 150?ish people. And I knew about half that many people that were using coke.

The1ApplePie
05-09-2010, 01:07 PM
As a USC, I have watched Cush since he started at DE as a true freshman.

He has been dogged by steroid accusations since he was back in high school in NJ

He has always been a freak athlete, and the roids probably only gave him a slight edge.

Clay Matthews on the other hand is built entirely on roids. He came in a 185 DB prospect and look at him now.

Most people are calling Cush "Latimer" now (badass from The Program). Not a bad nickname I guess

Cush will get through this I'm sure.

wagonhed
05-09-2010, 01:09 PM
You're missing the central point. It doesn't matter what you, I, or Brian Cushing think about steroid use/abuse. What matters is what the NFL and the NFLPA think about it, and how they govern it. If you are caught using steroids, or making agents, you will be suspended. If you continue their use, and continue to get caught, you will no longer be able to play in the league.

This reminds of the many marijuana in the NFL threads. Many here do not see the harmful effects of marijuana, if they even exist. But, those opinions don't count. What counts is what the league and the players' union agrees to.

As you said, what Cushing does or doesn't do to his body is not our business. What is our business, when we pay good money for the Texans product, is to see their best players on the field. And when Cushing is suspended for violating terms he agreed to when he signed a legal contract, he is denying fans from seeing the best product possible. Brian Cushing is not a grandma or a soldier. He's an NFL player who should abide by his contract.
I think you're actually missing the point of posts like his as well.

What you said only holds if they are arguing that the suspension he received was unfair and it should be removed. I haven't heard anyone argue that they should remove the suspension. Nor have I heard anyone argue that they aren't upset that he got caught and earned the suspension.

Your central point may be that he got suspended according to the rules and that's that. But noone is disagreeing with you. MY central point is that the rules and the NFL policy in general is bogus, but that doesn't mean I don't think the rules should be followed or that we can just ignore them when it comes to Cushing or something.

Honoring Earl 34
05-09-2010, 01:15 PM
My off the wall conspirocy theory of the day .

This is why Cushing is training with Glazer . When he comes back smaller he was going to say he was doing the MMA training and not pumping iron . Glazer is part of the act and gets pub out of it .

I think Cushing will always be a good player because he's driven ( to a fault ) and has great instincts . Hopefully we will not have to deal with this again .

Imatexanfan
05-09-2010, 01:18 PM
I am not happy with the fact that Cushing was using any performance enhancing drugs, but the bottom line is there are performance enhancing drugs that are in the over the counter section at any pharmacy. They are fine and dandy for people like me to take, but the NFL has banned them. The thing is we don't know exactly what he tested dirty for.

The1ApplePie
05-09-2010, 01:20 PM
I still can't grasp how Mario has never been popped

Like Cush, he is a freakish athlete first... but the eye test says there is something more there

Honoring Earl 34
05-09-2010, 01:24 PM
It's funny because in baseball , theolder players got busted trying to hang on . In football it seems rookies get busted trying to get paid .

wagonhed
05-09-2010, 01:26 PM
I wonder if people would choose for the Texans to be a completely clean organization, if they had that choice. If most of you are so offended by the fact that one of our players was using, I must draw the conclusion that you all want all of our players to stop using.

That's fine and dandy and morally righteous and all of that. However, we would never win another game.

So if you're going to denounce Brian for using PEDs, you better denounce a lot of the rest of the team too, and say that you want them all to stop using.

Lucky
05-09-2010, 01:40 PM
MY central point is that the rules and the NFL policy in general is bogus, but that doesn't mean I don't think the rules should be followed or that we can just ignore them when it comes to Cushing or something.
Didn't you suggest (in one of your 39 posts in this thread) that Cushing should continue to take steroids? It would be easier to follow your central point if you could maintain a little consistency.

OK, steroids are like vitamins, and everyone should take them on a daily basis. Unfortunately (I guess), the NFL doesn't view them as such. You think that's bogus. Maybe it is. Do you actually see the league altering their position on steroid use? And what about Brian Cushing's integrity, violating terms of a contract he signed? What kind of teammate is he, when his actions keep him off the field? Those are the questions that seem much more relevant (in this forum) than whatever the actual effects of steroids to the human body are.

We have a ton of "experts" here (apparently) on steroid use. This "knowledge" seems superfluous to discussing Cushing's suspension. If Brian Cushing continues to get caught taking illegal substances, he will be tossed out of the league and made worthless to this organization. And Brian Cushing's value to this organization is why we're having this discussion, in the first place. Anything else is basically off "point".

wagonhed
05-09-2010, 02:36 PM
Didn't you suggest (in one of your 39 posts in this thread) that Cushing should continue to take steroids? It would be easier to follow your central point if you could maintain a little consistency.
I suggested that Cush should keep taking steroids if that's what he wants to do. And I think it seems likely that he will.

I've been perfectly consistent in everything I've said. I've had 39 posts in the thread because there has been a ton of stuff to respond to, most of which was false information about steroids. If there is any part of my stance which you are confused about, I have no problem clarifying.


OK, steroids are like vitamins, and everyone should take them on a daily basis. Unfortunately (I guess), the NFL doesn't view them as such. You think that's bogus. Maybe it is. Do you actually see the league altering their position on steroid use? And what about Brian Cushing's integrity, violating terms of a contract he signed? What kind of teammate is he, when his actions keep him off the field? Those are the questions that seem much more relevant (in this forum) than whatever the actual effects of steroids to the human body are.
I didn't say that about steroids, but thanks for mocking my position. No, I don't see the NFL altering their position on them, but I don't see how it isn't within my rights on this message board and within the context of this thread to voice my objections.

As far as Cushing's contract, I don't really care. I don't think the contract is what ultimately binds a football player - it's loyalty to his teammates that binds him. He definitely let them down in that respect which is why I'm pissed off at him. But I could care less about his contract.

And as to what's relevant to this thread, I don't control the flow of the conversation. Most of my posts have, like I said, been in response to blatantly false misinformation about steroids. It wasn't my choice to make them the topic of discussion, but it was my choice to bring my own information in to correct what I believed to be false.


We have a ton of "experts" here (apparently) on steroid use. This "knowledge" seems superfluous to discussing Cushing's suspension. If Brian Cushing continues to get caught taking illegal substances, he will be tossed out of the league and made worthless to this organization. And Brian Cushing's value to this organization is why we're having this discussion, in the first place. Anything else is basically off "point".
Hey, you're the mod. If you think the discussion is off topic there are about 10 pages worth of posts about steroids you could probably delete. I don't need to defend myself for responding to false rhetoric concerning steroids or anything else that I've responded to in the thread. From what I can see, this thread has been on topic the whole time. This is a place where we are supposed to discuss things, isn't it?

TheRealJoker
05-09-2010, 05:01 PM
Cushing says he wasn't suspended for steroids:

"I was substance-tested randomly by the NFL during the 2009 season. The results of those tests indicated the presence of a non-steroidal banned substance. The League acted to suspend me based on those results, which I challenged in my appeal of the suspension. I believe we presented compelling evidence during the appeal process to challenge the test results, and I disagree with and am disappointed by the suspension. Bound by the decision of the League, I regret the situation it presents to the Texans' organization, my teammates, and our fans. My dedication to a championship season in 2010 continues undeterred."

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6152

Masking agent? Or is there any painkillers on the banned substances list?

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2010, 06:34 PM
Cushing says he wasn't suspended for steroids:

"I was substance-tested randomly by the NFL during the 2009 season. The results of those tests indicated the presence of a non-steroidal banned substance. The League acted to suspend me based on those results, which I challenged in my appeal of the suspension. I believe we presented compelling evidence during the appeal process to challenge the test results, and I disagree with and am disappointed by the suspension. Bound by the decision of the League, I regret the situation it presents to the Texans' organization, my teammates, and our fans. My dedication to a championship season in 2010 continues undeterred."

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6152

Masking agent? Or is there any painkillers on the banned substances list?

There are a ton of things on the list. Including ephedrine and pseudo-ephedrine.

GP
05-09-2010, 06:35 PM
Cushing says he wasn't suspended for steroids:

"I was substance-tested randomly by the NFL during the 2009 season. The results of those tests indicated the presence of a non-steroidal banned substance. The League acted to suspend me based on those results, which I challenged in my appeal of the suspension. I believe we presented compelling evidence during the appeal process to challenge the test results, and I disagree with and am disappointed by the suspension. Bound by the decision of the League, I regret the situation it presents to the Texans' organization, my teammates, and our fans. My dedication to a championship season in 2010 continues undeterred."

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6152

Masking agent? Or is there any painkillers on the banned substances list?

IMO, it had to be a masking agent. If you're going to play with fire...you gotta' keep a bucket of water nearby. And that bucket of water is the masking agent that hides the illegal substance(s).

This way, you get busted and can claim "Hey, it was a non-steroidal banned substance," which defuses (somewhat) the claims of STEROIDS! STEROIDS! yet cannot fully deflect the questions as to exactly what he tested positive for.

I've had my piss-and-moan session over this already, and have moved on through the stages of grief. Speaking for myself, I am not going to sit here and drink the Kool Aid that he used some marginal supplement and that he's being falsely accused.

He probably used a masking agent, and now he gets to claim that he didn't test positive for steroids. (Sigh) OK, Brian. Thanks. :tiphat:

Dishman
05-09-2010, 06:45 PM
It's funny because in baseball , theolder players got busted trying to hang on . In football it seems rookies get busted trying to get paid .

It only seems that way in baseball because of the magnitude of the names, but there have plenty of more obscure baseball players (major and minor leagues) that have tested positive for steroids. The Astros minor league prospect Lou Santangelo was busted a few years back, which led to the JR Towles catching his break.

hot pickle
05-09-2010, 06:47 PM
this just in..... I LOVE BRIAN CUSHING.... he is a texan and the texans are my team so i support him no matter what till the end!!!! go get em cush...... fv<k the haters!!!!

sorry for the language if it offended anyone!

i love you all lol

CloakNNNdagger
05-09-2010, 06:56 PM
The Dallas Morning New just now released a very short piece. Cowboys to face Cushing-less Texans (http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/05/cowboys-to-face-cushing-less-t.html)

The Dallas Cowboys will benefit from the NFL's latest suspension for steroids use.

Houston strong-side linebacker Brian Cushing, the league's defensive rookie of the year last season, will miss this season's first four games for a violation of the policy on performance-enhancing substances. That will keep him out of a game against the Cowboys on Sept. 26 at Houston.

Don't expect any tears from Cowboys fans.

barrett
05-09-2010, 07:54 PM
As much as this pains some of you, perhaps you should wait until more information is made available before you form your (knee jerk) version of the truth.


no. I'm not saying that he didn't do anything wrong.

GP
05-09-2010, 08:25 PM
As much as this pains some of you, perhaps you should wait until more information is made available before you form your (knee jerk) version of the truth.


no. I'm not saying that he didn't do anything wrong.

Yeah, we waited on the Steve McNair thing.

And the Woods thing.

And the Ben thing.

Etc.

Etc.

I expect Lawrence Taylor to be innocent, as well as Brian Cushing. LOL.

barrett
05-09-2010, 09:03 PM
As much as this pains some of you, perhaps you should wait until more information is made available before you form your (knee jerk) version of the truth.


no. I'm not saying that he didn't do anything wrong.

Yeah, we waited on the Steve McNair thing.

And the Woods thing.

And the Ben thing.

Etc.

Etc.

I expect Lawrence Taylor to be innocent, as well as Brian Cushing. LOL.

Are you not reading it right or am I not saying it right?

The1ApplePie
05-09-2010, 09:41 PM
The real question

Why didn't he share any with Okoye?

Honoring Earl 34
05-09-2010, 09:51 PM
He's back .

http://16.media.tumblr.com/kt7AgTy5tjix1rh0sBYEc77zo1_500.jpg

The1ApplePie
05-09-2010, 09:54 PM
All will be forgiven if he runs out into Reliant Stadium's parking lot and screams:

"Seat at the table!" while head butting windshields and car windows

silvrhand
05-09-2010, 10:15 PM
All will be forgiven if he runs out into Reliant Stadium's parking lot and screams:

"Seat at the table!" while head butting windshields and car windows

Ah great movie..

Lucky
05-09-2010, 10:15 PM
As much as this pains some of you, perhaps you should wait until more information is made available before you form your (knee jerk) version of the truth.
More information from whom? The NFL is not allowed to elaborate or give out any more detail than they've already given. Cushing has said that it is not steroids (per se). What other revelation are you waiting for? It is what it is. A 4 game suspension.

Honoring Earl 34
05-09-2010, 10:15 PM
All will be forgiven if he runs out into Reliant Stadium's parking lot and screams:

"Seat at the table!" while head butting windshields and car windows

Probably ... I'm not mad at the guy . I've seen guys do the same thing when there wasn't much money to be made playing league sports . I know two that are dead , that were big users in the 80's .

I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst . The show must go on and I hope we're 4-0 when he returns .

barrett
05-09-2010, 10:56 PM
More information from whom? The NFL is not allowed to elaborate or give out any more detail than they've already given. Cushing has said that it is not steroids (per se). What other revelation are you waiting for? It is what it is. A 4 game suspension.

As far as I can tell the only things that are known as fact is that he has been suspended and that he tested positive for a P.E.D..

Any other information that has been released to the public is general and not specific. Suppose he got busted for adderol?

My point is not in anyway in defense of Cushing or his innocence. But rather that it might be worthwhile to hear his side of the situation before rushing to judgments about what happened. His statement is very fomulaic in it's nature but also clearly state that there had been an appeal process and that it had been denied by the league.

Literally, and I'd sure like TC's law degree on this one, not a helluva lot has been said from the parties involved and here I am posting comment #550 on this message board alone.

That's quite a bit of speculation and hearsay to run on and on and on and on with.

You have an offical release from the NFL, Brian Cushing (via his agent), and the GM of the Texans. You have a bunch of comments from people considered to be close to him (Glazer, Winston etc.) some claiming to have spoken directly with Cushing (Glazer) and that was released in a "tweet" (140 characters max).

That's not much to go on. That's all I'm saying. We probably know what went on but I think it could actually be healthy to just kind of remind everyone that there's really not much information out there.

I know for myself personally I would really like to know if he has taken something that gave him an unfair advantage or not. Simply put, I don't think that information is currently available. Other than the release from the NFL there is nothing else mentioned.

I'm sure John McClain will get to the bottom of this!

;)

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2010, 10:59 PM
I'm sure John McClain will get to the bottom of this!

;)

Suddenly I feel so much better.







Not.

HoustonFrog
05-09-2010, 11:10 PM
The Dallas Morning New just now released a very short piece. Cowboys to face Cushing-less Texans (http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/05/cowboys-to-face-cushing-less-t.html)



Don't expect any tears from Cowboys fans.

I'd actually rather face teams at full force. It seems there are always a small minority that will make the excuse of not having "soandso." I think it will be a great game and would like to see the best players knock heads.

I'm not going to talk about the subject at hand much. I'm kind of disgusted at what I've read at points. I'll leave it at that.

redwhiteANDblue
05-10-2010, 01:39 AM
Bet they regret not picking us for hard knocks.

JCTexan
05-10-2010, 02:01 AM
As far as I can tell the only things that are known as fact is that he has been suspended and that he tested positive for a P.E.D..

Any other information that has been released to the public is general and not specific. Suppose he got busted for adderol?

My point is not in anyway in defense of Cushing or his innocence. But rather that it might be worthwhile to hear his side of the situation before rushing to judgments about what happened. His statement is very fomulaic in it's nature but also clearly state that there had been an appeal process and that it had been denied by the league.

Literally, and I'd sure like TC's law degree on this one, not a helluva lot has been said from the parties involved and here I am posting comment #550 on this message board alone.

That's quite a bit of speculation and hearsay to run on and on and on and on with.

You have an offical release from the NFL, Brian Cushing (via his agent), and the GM of the Texans. You have a bunch of comments from people considered to be close to him (Glazer, Winston etc.) some claiming to have spoken directly with Cushing (Glazer) and that was released in a "tweet" (140 characters max).

That's not much to go on. That's all I'm saying. We probably know what went on but I think it could actually be healthy to just kind of remind everyone that there's really not much information out there.

I know for myself personally I would really like to know if he has taken something that gave him an unfair advantage or not. Simply put, I don't think that information is currently available. Other than the release from the NFL there is nothing else mentioned.

I'm sure John McClain will get to the bottom of this!

;)

His side of the story is he didn't take steroids. Am I the only one who has heard that from an athlete? Baseball players seem to say that all the time only for it to be proven that they took it. Cushing knows that the NFL wont reveal what substance he took, so he has nothing to lose if he says he didn't take steroids. I can understand why people are upset with him. He took a banned substance & got suspended four games for it.

NitroGSXR
05-10-2010, 02:14 AM
Anyone know or understand why it's NFL's policy not to specifically state what it is that he failed? I'm curious to understand how it came to be.

Dan B.
05-10-2010, 02:33 AM
Anyone know or understand why it's NFL's policy not to specifically state what it is that he failed? I'm curious to understand how it came to be.

I'm fairly certain it was part of the last collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and NFLPA.

barrett
05-10-2010, 02:34 AM
His side of the story is he didn't take steroids. Am I the only one who has heard that from an athlete? Baseball players seem to say that all the time only for it to be proven that they took it. Cushing knows that the NFL wont reveal what substance he took, so he has nothing to lose if he says he didn't take steroids. I can understand why people are upset with him. He took a banned substance & got suspended four games for it.

I can certianly understand why people are upset with him as well. But it's based on information that just isn't avaliable. I share those feelings but I'm basing it on the understanding that I don't know the facts yet. So I'm withholding judgement as best I can until I know more.

powerfuldragon
05-10-2010, 02:51 AM
Anyone know or understand why it's NFL's policy not to specifically state what it is that he failed? I'm curious to understand how it came to be.

strange standards indeed. does it seem weird to anyone else that htey'd tell us ricky williams was smoking weed, but they won't tell us about steroids?

NitroGSXR
05-10-2010, 02:54 AM
strange standards indeed. does it seem weird to anyone else that htey'd tell us ricky williams was smoking weed, but they won't tell us about steroids?

Exactly why I'm very confused on it. Not limited to that either. What's the difference in telling us that a player has been fined/suspended for bad conduct like Roethlisberger, the Jared Allen hits on Schaub, etc.

JCTexan
05-10-2010, 03:06 AM
I can certianly understand why people are upset with him as well. But it's based on information that just isn't avaliable. I share those feelings but I'm basing it on the understanding that I don't know the facts yet. So I'm withholding judgement as best I can until I know more.

I understand waiting for the facts to be revealed before throwing stones at him. However, there is enough information out already that has me disappointed in Cushing. He took a banned substance that the NFL thought warranted suspending him four games for. No matter what substance that ends up being it was enough for a suspension in the NFL's mind. Steroids or not losing him for a fourth of the season has me disappointed.

GuerillaBlack
05-10-2010, 08:40 AM
Exactly why I'm very confused on it. Not limited to that either. What's the difference in telling us that a player has been fined/suspended for bad conduct like Roethlisberger, the Jared Allen hits on Schaub, etc.

Because what if it actually was Ephedrine from a flu medicine (doubt this is what happened, but still)? The NFL would look bad, I guess.

GP
05-10-2010, 08:46 AM
Are you not reading it right or am I not saying it right?

No, I am not accusing you of anything.

You were talking about us needing to wait until more information is available.

I was saying that people asked for the same patience during the Steve McNair murder-suicide, Ben's adventures, Tiger's wreck over Thanksgiving, etc. We all want to believe the people are innocent, but it seems where there's smoke there's eventually going to be some fire.

Cushing is using the protections afforded him (we'll not see the NFL release what substance he tested positive for) and stating that it wasn't steroids. And we're being asked to be patient and listen to what will be said.

What will be said is a bunch of dookie, dressed up in fine clothes. It's still dookie. He's missing four games AND the media and fans will forever have a punchline ready when talking about the Texans. I don't think there's anything the guy can say that I can trust, unless the NFL were to somehow release their information. Which they won't.

gtexan02
05-10-2010, 08:53 AM
I think GP has a point.

You have a guy who changed shape dramatically over a very short period of time.
A guy with steroid allegations following him since well before the draft.
A guy who comes in and dominated from day 1, playing through injuries and not practicing.
A guy who shows all the telltale side effects of steroids (specific injuries, etc)

And now you have a guy with a positive test and a 4 game suspension. His appeal was rejected outright.


It doesn't really matter what he tells us at this point. Its one thing to believe that our LS wasn't taking steroids. Look at him. But in the court of public opinion (this includes most fans and commentators) when it smells like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks.... well, its probably a duck.

And realistically, it doesn't matter. He's gone for 4 games. A 4 game stretch when we REALLY needed him. Thats bad enough right there

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 09:07 AM
Anyone know or understand why it's NFL's policy not to specifically state what it is that he failed? I'm curious to understand how it came to be.

I've asked myself this same question. The only reasonable answer I can come up with is that other substances such as marijuana, alcohol involve indictment of mostly the player, and do not involve possibly placing the player on an "unfair unequal playing field." In the case of PED (and "presumptive" masking agents), there is potential indictment of the player. But there is more of an indictment of the GAME, and therefore the NFL's integrity. Leaving the question open gives the impression that the NFL has taken action, at the same time making it much more difficult to challenge its motives, its investigative process, its intermediary decision process and its final decision. This is my personal impression.

HoustonFrog
05-10-2010, 09:12 AM
I've asked myself this same question. The only reasonable answer I can come up with is that other substances such as marijuana, alcohol involve indictment of mostly the player, and do not involve possibly placing the player on an "unfair unequal playing field." In the case of PED (and "presumptive" masking agents), there is potential indictment of the player. But there is more of an indictment of the GAME, and therefore the NFL's integrity. Leaving the question open gives the impression that the NFL has taken action, at the same time making it much more difficult to challenge its motives, its investigative process, its intermediary decision process and its final decision. This is my personal impression.

I may be wrong but my thinking is that they are all separate categories so they release the category. So Marijuana is one. Cocaine may be one. PEDs or Steroid may be one category. So it seems like one is more specific but it may just be how they set it up and therefore the Steroid/PED one just covers more. But that may be completely wrong.

Honoring Earl 34
05-10-2010, 09:12 AM
I've asked myself this same question. The only reasonable answer I can come up with is that other substances such as marijuana, alcohol involve indictment of mostly the player, and do not involve possibly placing the player on an "unfair unequal playing field." In the case of PED (and "presumptive" masking agents), there is potential indictment of the player. But there is more of an indictment of the GAME, and therefore the NFL's integrity. Leaving the question open gives the impression that the NFL has taken action, at the same time making it much more difficult to challenge its motives, its investigative process, its intermediary decision process and its final decision. This is my personal impression.

My question would be , will Cushing have to always look for help to be the player he was or is this just a speed bump ? Did the PEDs make Cushing the player he is or is he a good player looking for an edge ?Is he Brady Anderson or Barry Bonds ?

If I sound kinda callous it's because I have one son who's had a hard time in sports because he has flat feet that turn in ( he's done ok but it's hurt his quickness ) and another who is epileptic . They've done the best they can with what they've been dealt with . If they wanted to do PEDs , I would have told them no ... it's not worth it .

gtexan02
05-10-2010, 09:18 AM
I've asked myself this same question. The only reasonable answer I can come up with is that other substances such as marijuana, alcohol involve indictment of mostly the player, and do not involve possibly placing the player on an "unfair unequal playing field." In the case of PED (and "presumptive" masking agents), there is potential indictment of the player. But there is more of an indictment of the GAME, and therefore the NFL's integrity. Leaving the question open gives the impression that the NFL has taken action, at the same time making it much more difficult to challenge its motives, its investigative process, its intermediary decision process and its final decision. This is my personal impression.

My guess is that it was simply a result of the union.

They agreed to testing with the provision that the results are not leaked.

MannyFresh
05-10-2010, 09:25 AM
Support him or gtfo in my opinion.

If you are a Texans fan.. 24 hours ago you loved Brian Cushing. And if you are a Texans fan.. i can understand disappointment, sadness, even anger... but shitting on Cushing today is just unforgivable. It is possible to voice your disappointment without bad mouthing, name calling, or making wild accusations.

I need to make a list of all you ****ers that are throwing him under the bus. You people are pathetic. I can only hope that some day you find yourself in a tough situation and everyone who cares about you uses that opportunity to walk all over you.

For those of you here who have never made a mistake.. I hope you have contacted your church because as of right now, im pretty sure no one knew that Jesus was walking the earth again. You shoulda let us know when you got here big J.

For the rest of you.. congrats on being a normal flawed human being. Maybe you should use that shared human imperfection to try and generate some empathy for the 21 year old kid that is already dealing with the accusations and ridicule of people all over the country... I dont think he needs it from his supporters at home too.

Anyway.. if Cushing failed the test due to a masking agent or some such.. but not any true PEDs.. and he is naturally a beast, and he comes back and continues to be a superstar for us, I hope all you judgemental bitches choke on the crow you are gonna have to eat, and die a horrible violent death.

You can put me on that list then...so what now? What number am I now? Whatever dude.

ChampionTexan
05-10-2010, 09:27 AM
No, I am not accusing you of anything.

You were talking about us needing to wait until more information is available.

I was saying that people asked for the same patience during the Steve McNair murder-suicide, Ben's adventures, Tiger's wreck over Thanksgiving, etc. We all want to believe the people are innocent, but it seems where there's smoke there's eventually going to be some fire.

Cushing is using the protections afforded him (we'll not see the NFL release what substance he tested positive for) and stating that it wasn't steroids. And we're being asked to be patient and listen to what will be said.

What will be said is a bunch of dookie, dressed up in fine clothes. It's still dookie. He's missing four games AND the media and fans will forever have a punchline ready when talking about the Texans. I don't think there's anything the guy can say that I can trust, unless the NFL were to somehow release their information. Which they won't.

I think there's definitely a wait and see involved, but it's not wait and see what he was busted for. It's wait and see how he does when he comes back - but mostly how the Texans do period.

Cushing will determine how he's viewed. If he doesn't test positive again, and continues to perform at or close to last years level, nobody will care if he tested positive for the nastiest, most powerful steroid going. Decline appreciably, and he's a product of steroids, and it won't matter if it turns out he tested positive for Alka-Seltzer Plus.

As far as the Texans go, my view is they are a team that's made mistakes, and has flaws, but is still going in the right direction. Cushing's a part of that, but not nearly a big enough part that his absence/diminution changes that opinion. If the lack of one guy can cause them to regress that much, then I was wrong about the Texans as a whole - not just Cushing.

Finally, while I could care less about what punchlines the media and fans come up with, the reality is that other teams fans are always looking for reasons to de-ride other NFL teams. As far as the media, they'll latch on to what the Texans give them to latch on to. If Cushing's suspension is the sexiest media story the Texans have to offer, then A.) That's what they'll focus on, and B.) They won't focus on the Texans very much. I don't believe the viewpoint of the Chargers as a whole is (or ever was) impacted much at all by Merriman's positive test in 2006. It's based on the things the media finds most interesting (good and bad) about the Chargers, and if they didn't find much of anything interesting, then we wouldn't hear much of anything about them . The Texans will be the same going down the road.

noxiousdog
05-10-2010, 09:40 AM
Matt Jackson had the following on his blog (http://themademen.blogspot.com/2010/05/sex-drugs-and-rock-drugs-anyway.html):

According to my sources, Brian Cushing was warned by a Texans official that he was taking a supplement that could result in a positive test. Both Cushing and outgoing strength coach Ray Wright were given the information during the season and chose to ignore it. So while Cushing certainly did not take a steroid, he was pretty foolish to take a substance that he knew could produce a positive test.

This might explain why Wright was let go.

GP
05-10-2010, 09:44 AM
I think there's definitely a wait and see involved, but it's not wait and see what he was busted for. It's wait and see how he does when he comes back - but mostly how the Texans do period.

Cushing will determine how he's viewed. If he doesn't test positive again, and continues to perform at or close to last years level, nobody will care if he tested positive for the nastiest, most powerful steroid going. Decline appreciably, and he's a product of steroids, and it won't matter if it turns out he tested positive for Alka-Seltzer Plus.

As far as the Texans go, my view is they are a team that's made mistakes, and has flaws, but is still going in the right direction. Cushing's a part of that, but not nearly a big enough part that his absence/diminution changes that opinion. If the lack of one guy can cause them to regress that much, then I was wrong about the Texans as a whole - not just Cushing.

Finally, while I could care less about what punchlines the media and fans come up with, the reality is that other teams fans are always looking for reasons to de-ride other NFL teams. As far as the media, they'll latch on to what the Texans give them to latch on to. If Cushing's suspension is the sexiest media story the Texans have to offer, then A.) That's what they'll focus on, and B.) They won't focus on the Texans very much. I don't believe the viewpoint of the Chargers as a whole is (or ever was) impacted much at all by Merriman's positive test in 2006. It's based on the things the media finds most interesting (good and bad) about the Chargers, and if they didn't find much of anything interesting, then we wouldn't hear much of anything about them . The Texans will be the same going down the road.

I'm good with everything you posted.

Probably one of the most level-headed posts in this whole thread.

Rep your way, except it says I can't give you any more rep right now.

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 09:45 AM
I made a comment last year on a shirtless picture of him someone had posted. I pointed out the swollen nipples that are normally caused by steroid use. So, I knew in the back of my mind he used in College. However, I didn't know he was dumb enough to continue in the NFL.

If it was truly roids or another type of PED, what are the odds we get the same player when he returns in 2010? Well, from my experience the odds are most definitely NOT in his favor.

In the end, will we see a roid-less Cushing continue to beast on the field? Or did we draft the next Brian Bosworth? Time will tell, but considering the horrible feeling I've had all weekend I'd have to bet on the latter

GP
05-10-2010, 09:46 AM
Matt Jackson had the following on his blog (http://themademen.blogspot.com/2010/05/sex-drugs-and-rock-drugs-anyway.html):



This might explain why Wright was let go.

Very interesting. Why did both people allegedly refuse to heed the warning?

Four freaking games. And the stain of "testing positive for a PED." Senseless.

Honoring Earl 34
05-10-2010, 10:05 AM
I made a comment last year on a shirtless picture of him someone had posted. I pointed out the swollen nipples that are normally caused by steroid use. So, I knew in the back of my mind he used in College. However, I didn't know he was dumb enough to continue in the NFL.

If it was truly roids or another type of PED, what are the odds we get the same player when he returns in 2010? Well, from my experience the odds are most definitely NOT in his favor.

In the end, will we see a roid-less Cushing continue to beast on the field? Or did we draft the next Brian Bosworth? Time will tell, but considering the horrible feeling I've had all weekend I'd have to bet on the latter

To me a player really swells in the head , arms , and thighs when he's used PEDs . The baseball players looked like someone stuck an airhose up their butt and inflated them . Then they looked like someone stuck them with a pin and deflated them . I kinda think that'll be Cushing but we'll see .

I'm far from an expert but have lifted when I was young . What I found was , it wasn't really hard to get results but after awhile you maxed out . Then you crept along to get 10 pounds more . How much weight can you put on and strength can you add naturally ?

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 10:08 AM
In addition to my previous post: Unfortunately, I do think he took some type of PED. However, whether he took them or not strangely isn't my primary concern. I'm more worried about Cushing, the player, when he comes back if he DID actually use. Will he go Bosworth on us? I'm going to pray he continues to play like the Cush we saw last season.

Honoring Earl 34
05-10-2010, 10:08 AM
Very interesting. Why did both people allegedly refuse to heed the warning?

Four freaking games. And the stain of "testing positive for a PED." Senseless.

Yep ... that was a big screw up by both and your not going to fire the player .

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 10:14 AM
That would certainly be an indictment of the NFL.

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 10:16 AM
To me a player really swells in the head , arms , and thighs when he's used PEDs . The baseball players looked like someone stuck an airhose up their butt and inflated them . Then they looked like someone stuck them with a pin and deflated them . I kinda think that'll be Cushing but we'll see .

I'm far from an expert but have lifted when I was young . What I found was , it wasn't really hard to get results but after awhile you maxed out . Then you crept along to get 10 pounds more . How much weight can you put on and strength can you add naturally ?

You do plateau, but it should be up to the person or his trainer to provide programs to endure it doesn't happen. We've already seen how big and strong he has been and I don't see why he couldn't achieve the same, if not better naturally. IMO, considering how important Cush is to our D, our training staff should come up with a plan specifically for Cush to ensure he can continue to build naturally and build the confidence he obviously had while using (presumably).

GP
05-10-2010, 10:16 AM
Yep ... that was a big screw up by both and your not going to fire the player .

Job security is predicated on how easy a replacement can be found.

I guess it's easier to replace a s&c coach than a Pro Bowl NFL linebacker.

This is all, obviously, predicated on whether this is "the" real reason (or one of the contributing factors) as to why the previous s&c coach was fired.

Honoring Earl 34
05-10-2010, 10:21 AM
Job security is predicated on how easy a replacement can be found.

I guess it's easier to replace a s&c coach than a Pro Bowl NFL linebacker.

This is all, obviously, predicated on whether this is "the" real reason (or one of the contributing factors) as to why the previous s&c coach was fired.

The words ... I knew he it was iffy but thought it would be ok ... will get you fired in a flash .

Blake
05-10-2010, 10:40 AM
Although I dont like PED's in the NFL, and think that players should be suspended for taking them and getting caught, I am obviously pissed to hear that our beast of a linebacker will be suspended for the first 4 games. But let me say that I am 100% behind him, and will reserve my final judgement until all the facts are out.

I am not going to dig up old threads to bash him. I am not going to jump off the Cush bandwagon and in 6 months weasel my way back on. I am going to wait and make a smart informed decision on his situation and how I feel about it after the shockwave is over.




My only question is, what PED is he being suspended for?

Big Lou
05-10-2010, 10:43 AM
From theredzon.og:

According to Adam Schefter of ESPN, Texans linebacker Brian Cushing failed his drug test in September of 2009

Cushing suspension for testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs was announced on Friday. Under league rules, players can appeal the laboratory finding or the penalty. Cushing appealed the laboratory finding and lost.

http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/6277/Cushing-tested-positive-in-September-2009/Default.aspx


__________________________________________________ __________________________________
So does this mean that maybe we saw the real Cush? Or would he have not known the results for a while afterwards? Best case scenario would be that he knew he got busted early in the season, and then still played lights out off of the juice, and if this is the case he'll realize he doesn't need PED's.

Just trying to be glass half full!!!!!

drewmar74
05-10-2010, 10:48 AM
Although I dont like PED's in the NFL, and think that players should be suspended for taking them and getting caught, I am obviously pissed to hear that our beast of a linebacker will be suspended for the first 4 games. But let me say that I am 100% behind him, and will reserve my final judgement until all the facts are out.

I am not going to dig up old threads to bash him. I am not going to jump off the Cush bandwagon and in 6 months weasel my way back on. I am going to wait and make a smart informed decision on his situation and how I feel about it after the shockwave is over.

And this post sums how I feel about the whole situation. Well said. I'd rep you but the system won't let me.


My only question is, what PED is he being suspended for?

I'm less worried about this point. However, if it is something like a straight up, old school codsack shrinking steroid I'll be instantly concerned that other bone-head decisions are looming in his future.

From theredzon.og:

According to Adam Schefter of ESPN, Texans linebacker Brian Cushing failed his drug test in September of 2009



I wonder if he was taking something to help him get back on the field. Maybe something along with the hyperbaric chamber and didn't realize it was taboo? Timing would work for that.

GP
05-10-2010, 11:17 AM
Remember in MLB when Giambi was sick, and lost "weight," and then it came out that he had abused PEDs?

Giambi never looked the same. He lost that edge.

1. Was Cushing on something that gave him a slight edge, a HUGE edge, or only a psychological edge but the NFL flags that substance anyways?

2. Has he stopped completely? Or is he trying to find an edge through other avenues right now? In short: Is he mired in the quest for finding the edge every day or was this enough to make him stop the risky business?

I think the main thing is the psychological/mental/emotional boost you get when you know you're maxing out every possible route to get an edge on the others. You feel you're ahead of the curve. And once that's gone, you might not recover and feel that you're as able as you were.

I think that holds true for Giambi. I think once the jig was up, he had endured so much in the media and this was coupled with what might have been a lack of confidence in himself...and the downward spiral began. Do I think this is what will happen with Cushing? I don't think so. He seems to be a guy who moves forward and doesn't dwell on the past. Maybe.

My hope is that he's been clean since the test in September 2009. And, my hope is that he's stopped the Romanowski'esque quest for supplemental El Dorado. Quit looking for the lost city of gold. Use what you know is 100% legal and stop the shenanigans.

El Tejano
05-10-2010, 11:27 AM
I guess the one thing I can say about Cushing is that he's shown to be a dude that takes care of his body. He's mentioned before that he only drinks water and every now and then will have an iced tea, we know he lays in a hyperbaric chamber and does the little things necessary to keep his body in check. So that tells me he knows exactly what he's doing with his body.

If the Adam Schefter report is true that he appealed the laboratory finding, that tells me he knew what he was taking and was for sure he wasn't violating any substance abuse policy and perhaps could've made a mistake on what substance he was taking.

Unfortunately what it's going to take is time. Only time will tell if he was getting an edge.

Goldensilence
05-10-2010, 11:36 AM
Well Cushing has had the weekend to get with some sort of PR team and his agent. They need to put out a statement today and come up with a reason as to WHY he failed this test. Was it the result of a supplement that he was warned could produce a positive test? Was he simply just caught?

Either way I don't think it's going to end the speculation with him and it's not going to stop the questions surrounding his performance last year and going into the future.

I think some of the reaction on this board has been weak in saying some people are not fans or don't support Brian. How many people honestly would be willing to wait around and see the player's side of the story if it was found out Chris Johnson tested positive? We get it. You're willing to give Cushing the benefit solely because he's a Texan.

thunderkyss
05-10-2010, 11:42 AM
Matt Jackson had the following on his blogAccording to my sources, Brian Cushing was warned by a Texans official that he was taking a supplement that could result in a positive test. Both Cushing and outgoing strength coach Ray Wright were given the information during the season and chose to ignore it. So while Cushing certainly did not take a steroid, he was pretty foolish to take a substance that he knew could produce a positive test. (http://themademen.blogspot.com/2010/05/sex-drugs-and-rock-drugs-anyway.html):



This might explain why Wright was let go.

This is why I think we should all reserve judgment about our team-member. It's true if he were on another team, we would all be on top of this with speculation, and accusations. But he is not on another team, he is on our team, and we should be supportive, and cautious.

That doesn't mean we should be stupid.

He tested positive in September. Can we assume he was clean the rest of the season? If it were Steroids, and he quit in September, would he have played like the DROY? would he have played like a pro-bowler?

If it were a supplement that helps him recover quicker? Would that be a bad thing? would it be as bad as a steroid? Really, is there anything other than steroids that really work, that should be banned?

HGH is the only thing I can think of, but there isn't a method for testing.

GP
05-10-2010, 11:47 AM
Well Cushing has had the weekend to get with some sort of PR team and his agent. They need to put out a statement today and come up with a reason as to WHY he failed this test. Was it the result of a supplement that he was warned could produce a positive test? Was he simply just caught?

Either way I don't think it's going to end the speculation with him and it's not going to stop the questions surrounding his performance last year and going into the future.

I think some of the reaction on this board has been weak in saying some people are not fans or don't support Brian. How many people honestly would be willing to wait around and see the player's side of the story if it was found out Chris Johnson tested positive? We get it. You're willing to give Cushing the benefit solely because he's a Texan.

I agree with what you say.

I would hope he had been forming his PR stance since September of 2009. He's had a long time to get the right message out there.

I think he will bury his head in the sand, which means he will forge forward with being a gym rat and doing nothing but football business. I see no orchestrated media events or appearances on shows by Brian.

This is a guy who, on draft day, had a pensive and terse look on his face when asked how he felt to be drafted by the Texans. "I just can't wait to get to work." At the time, somw said he was cold and looked uninspired to be drafted by our team. Little did we know that he was serious about this. He is an alien with a laser-beam focus you don't see in many people his age who just got handed a bunch of money and instant fame.

I just hope he plays his 12 regular season games and almost achieves in 12 games what he did in the 14 games-or-so that he played last year. That's going to be huge. Can he bounce back, or does he drop off a bit? Is it unfair if he drops off a bit? Probably. But it's the choices he made that created the unfair situation he lives in right now.

GP
05-10-2010, 11:51 AM
This is why I think we should all reserve judgment about our team-member. It's true if he were on another team, we would all be on top of this with speculation, and accusations. But he is not on another team, he is on our team, and we should be supportive, and cautious.

That doesn't mean we should be stupid.

He tested positive in September. Can we assume he was clean the rest of the season? If it were Steroids, and he quit in September, would he have played like the DROY? would he have played like a pro-bowler?

If it were a supplement that helps him recover quicker? Would that be a bad thing? would it be as bad as a steroid? Really, is there anything other than steroids that really work, that should be banned?

HGH is the only thing I can think of, but there isn't a method for testing.

The majority of backlash is that we're without him for four games.

Any edge he gained for the PED he got busted for has now jeopardized our chances in these first four games of the 2010 season.

It's the dynamic of a guy helping himself, and thinking he's helping his team, when he just veered into a four-game suspension for 2010. That's where I'd say a lot of the anger is coming from on here. That, and the stain it puts on the team from this day forward. Is it something that cannot be recovered over time? No. But it's a mess we want to be free from, as fans.

Everyone has had their time to vent (this past weekend). We just don't know what becomes of this on down the line, which is section B of Cushing's shenanigans from back in 2009. The storyline continues, and will continue, for a long long time.

Dutchrudder
05-10-2010, 11:56 AM
Well that was a fun 30 pages to read. Like a virtual rollercoaster with all sorts of twists and turns, you just never know what people will get into on a subject like this.

By the way, if anyone has a Large Cushing jersey they don't want, I'd be happy to take it off your hands :D

Anyways, good luck Brian, come back strong and tackle the crap out of the opposition!

Texecutioner
05-10-2010, 11:57 AM
Matt Jackson had the following on his blog (http://themademen.blogspot.com/2010/05/sex-drugs-and-rock-drugs-anyway.html):



This might explain why Wright was let go.

Great thing that Wright was let go then. He was obviously incompetent to the point that he was allowing our players to be at risk for suspension. If him and Cushing were both warned about this prior to any failed tests and Cushing continued on with it, then that makes this even worse actually. Make both of them look really stupid.

Oh well. At least I know the guy will be working his ass off either way. I still think that Cush will be a pretty damn good player.

GP
05-10-2010, 12:09 PM
LOL. Just thought of something to stir the pot here (not the NFL-banned pot, by the way. I don't Roger coming here and looking into things because I said "pot").

Kubiak is going to have a built-in excuse if we don't reach the playoffs.

McLain: "Bob, can you discuss the disappointment of not making the playoffs. Again?"

McNair: "Well, at the end of the year...we got together and looked back on the season and really found that Gary did an excellent job of dealing with some adversity at the beginning of the season. Those one or two games there, with Brian out, would have put us into the playoffs.........."

(Sigh)

I can almost hear it now....:tv:

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 12:10 PM
I made a comment last year on a shirtless picture of him someone had posted. I pointed out the swollen nipples that are normally caused by steroid use. So, I knew in the back of my mind he used in College. However, I didn't know he was dumb enough to continue in the NFL.

If it was truly roids or another type of PED, what are the odds we get the same player when he returns in 2010? Well, from my experience the odds are most definitely NOT in his favor.

In the end, will we see a roid-less Cushing continue to beast on the field? Or did we draft the next Brian Bosworth? Time will tell, but considering the horrible feeling I've had all weekend I'd have to bet on the latter
Swollen nipples actually occur normally in some boys going through puberty, and if you are someone that develops them, they don't go away unless you have surgery.

And what exactly do you mean, dumb enough to continue them in the NFL? Have you read the rest of this thread? Most of the NFL uses.

Did Brian Bosworth ever have a season like Cushing's rookie season? Does Cushing have any of the same antics as Bosworth?


You're just being a dick to the kid for a bunch of ill-founded reasons, and that's shitty. Nothing but a bunch of lame assumptions and a poor knowledge of steroids. That's ok though, you're only like the 20th person in this thread to do that.

chicagotexan2
05-10-2010, 12:13 PM
I am really late to the party, but I am really dissapointed that he cheated and it cost him 4 games. I do wonder if he will be every bit as effective and impactful without the PED's.

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 12:15 PM
You do plateau, but it should be up to the person or his trainer to provide programs to endure it doesn't happen. We've already seen how big and strong he has been and I don't see why he couldn't achieve the same, if not better naturally. IMO, considering how important Cush is to our D, our training staff should come up with a plan specifically for Cush to ensure he can continue to build naturally and build the confidence he obviously had while using (presumably).
Again, this is not even close to reality.

First of all, there are natural limits. As in, literally, LIMITS. You can't go farther. Hundreds of players in the NFL are beyond those limits, and the only way you get there is with steroids.

So if you don't see why he can't achieve the same naturally, it's because it isn't possible. Go hunt down pictures from a natural bodybuilding competition. That will show you the limits of natural as far as physique goes, and that requires time and energy that football players don't have.

And you make a pretty big assumption that Cush's confidence came from drugs. Completely unfounded imo.

Texecutioner
05-10-2010, 12:23 PM
You're just being a dick to the kid for a bunch of ill-founded reasons, and that's shitty. Nothing but a bunch of lame assumptions and a poor knowledge of steroids. That's ok though, you're only like the 20th person in this thread to do that.

You've spewed tons and tons of nonsense all over this thread and another one as if every NFL player is taking roids when they're all being tested. The testing is obviously working to some degree as well, because Cushing got caught taking whatever it was that was a banned substance. No one was being a dick to him at any point. Cushing ****ed up. That's what happened. He got himself suspended regardless of what or how many people you think juice in the NFL, he's not able to play for the first 4 games of the season when his team is going to really really need him. And stop it with the assumptions. There is nothing to assume when it's a fact that he tested positive. You've made nothing but blanket statements throughout this entire thread without one shred of evidence proving jack about all of these players that are allegedly juicing. Just because you think 90% of the league is juicing doesn't make it right or okay by any means. And even if that were true then, you're still the dummy when get caught for it if there are so many other people doing it and getting away with it. It wasn't right or justified when Merriman took banned substances and it damn sure isn't right that Cushing has either. Not in the NFL or when he was in college.

It's not out of the question at all to assume or the question whether or not if his play on the field will drop off next year.

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 12:26 PM
Remember in MLB when Giambi was sick, and lost "weight," and then it came out that he had abused PEDs?

Giambi never looked the same. He lost that edge.

1. Was Cushing on something that gave him a slight edge, a HUGE edge, or only a psychological edge but the NFL flags that substance anyways?

2. Has he stopped completely? Or is he trying to find an edge through other avenues right now? In short: Is he mired in the quest for finding the edge every day or was this enough to make him stop the risky business?

I think the main thing is the psychological/mental/emotional boost you get when you know you're maxing out every possible route to get an edge on the others. You feel you're ahead of the curve. And once that's gone, you might not recover and feel that you're as able as you were.

I think that holds true for Giambi. I think once the jig was up, he had endured so much in the media and this was coupled with what might have been a lack of confidence in himself...and the downward spiral began. Do I think this is what will happen with Cushing? I don't think so. He seems to be a guy who moves forward and doesn't dwell on the past. Maybe.

My hope is that he's been clean since the test in September 2009. And, my hope is that he's stopped the Romanowski'esque quest for supplemental El Dorado. Quit looking for the lost city of gold. Use what you know is 100% legal and stop the shenanigans.
God, dude, seriously?

What do you know about what he was using or when or what edge it gave him? Never seen so much armchair psychoanalyzing in my life.

You don't know shit about Cushing, what he took, when he took it, why he took it, what he will take in the future, whether he "dwells on the past" or just "moves forward". I very much doubt you know half of what you think you do about Romanowski or Giambi either, and those comparisons are ridiculous to begin with.

Seriously man, just stop it.

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 12:27 PM
Swollen nipples actually occur normally in some boys going through puberty, and if you are someone that develops them, they don't go away unless you have surgery.

And what exactly do you mean, dumb enough to continue them in the NFL? Have you read the rest of this thread? Most of the NFL uses.

Did Brian Bosworth ever have a season like Cushing's rookie season? Does Cushing have any of the same antics as Bosworth?


You're just being a dick to the kid for a bunch of ill-founded reasons, and that's shitty. Nothing but a bunch of lame assumptions and a poor knowledge of steroids. That's ok though, you're only like the 20th person in this thread to do that.

Ugh, dunno why I'm responding, so I'll leave it at this. My knowledge and experiences with steroids come from a more personal level. I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I'm well aware of steroid side effects.

Oh, as far as being a "dick", I don't recall making knee-jerk comments about Cushing. I even stated I was more worried about how this will effect his play on the field than using. I have liked Cushing and I still like Cushing. So please, spare me, "dick".

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 12:33 PM
You've spewed tons and tons of nonsense all over this thread and another one as if every NFL player is taking roids when they're all being tested. The testing is obviously working to some degree as well, because Cushing got caught taking whatever it was that was a banned substance. No one was being a dick to him at any point. Cushing ****ed up. That's what happened. He got himself suspended regardless of what or how many people you think juice in the NFL, he's not able to play for the first 4 games of the season when his team is going to really really need him. And stop it with the assumptions. There is nothing to assume when it's a fact that he tested positive. You've made nothing but blanket statements throughout this entire thread without one shred of evidence proving jack about all of these players that are allegedly juicing. Just because you think 90% of the league is juicing doesn't make it right or okay by any means. And even if that were true then, you're still the dummy when get caught for it if there are so many other people doing it and getting away with it. It wasn't right or justified when Merriman took banned substances and it damn sure isn't right that Cushing has either. Not in the NFL or when he was in college.

It's not out of the question at all to assume or the question whether or not if his play on the field will drop off next year.
First of all, paragraphs.

Second of all, you need to separate two different issues, because right now you are mixing them together and putting words in my mouth.

I never excused what Cushing did. Not once. In fact I've called him a ****ing *****, among other things, and said it was his responsibility and he let his teammates down. I never said him getting caught was right or ok. So take a chill pill and stop trying to "correct" me on something I've already acknowledged multiple times.

And what nonsense, exactly, have I been spewing? There is tons of evidence of PED use in the NFL. I'm sorry if you don't want to see it. Just because people aren't getting caught doesn't mean they aren't using, and if you're naive enough to think it does..... sorry about that.

You go on believing that everyone who uses gets caught and everyone else is clean. Have fun in your fantasy world and continue to get outraged when someone suggests the obvious, that PEDs are widespread and have been for 3 decades.


Two different issues. Steroid use in the NFL. Brian Cushing letting down his team. If you can't understand how they are separate then I have nothing further to discuss with you.

Dan B.
05-10-2010, 12:33 PM
Can I call him Brian Pin Cushion?

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 12:35 PM
Ugh, dunno why I'm responding, so I'll leave it at this. My knowledge and experiences with steroids come from a more personal level. I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I'm well aware of steroid side effects.

Oh, as far as being a "dick", I don't recall making knee-jerk comments about Cushing. I even stated I was more worried about how this will effect his play on the field than using. I have liked Cushing and I still like Cushing. So please, spare me, "dick".
Sorry but to me, comparing a guy that up until now has done nothing but contribute immensely to this team to Brian Bosworth and saying that you think he is going to end up like him is pretty dick and completely unfounded.

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Again, this is not even close to reality.

First of all, there are natural limits. As in, literally, LIMITS. You can't go farther. Hundreds of players in the NFL are beyond those limits, and the only way you get there is with steroids.

So if you don't see why he can't achieve the same naturally, it's because it isn't possible. Go hunt down pictures from a natural bodybuilding competition. That will show you the limits of natural as far as physique goes, and that requires time and energy that football players don't have.

And you make a pretty big assumption that Cush's confidence came from drugs. Completely unfounded imo.

Geez, dude. I never said there weren't limits. It's pretty obvious people have limits in growth. I said plateau.

So you're telling me that an athlete does NOT gain confidence while using steroids? If you lifted weights or trained for a particular event, wouldn't your confidence build each time you increase in weight, get a bit faster than the previous week? Will he have that same confidence now having to train without the PEDs? I don't think he will until he can prove it to himself that he can get the results naturally.

infantrycak
05-10-2010, 12:40 PM
Enough with the insults folks.

GP
05-10-2010, 12:42 PM
Enough with the insults folks.

Folks, as in plural?

I think it's one person, no?

The guy has reamed out anybody who disagrees with him. And we've been more fair to him than he deserves, IMO.

devo-x
05-10-2010, 12:43 PM
It seems like the thread title should be changed until its positive that Brian was suspended for steriods - I have not seen any facts so far that would point to this conclusion

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 12:44 PM
Sorry but to me, comparing a guy that up until now has done nothing but contribute immensely to this team to Brian Bosworth and saying that you think he is going to end up like him is pretty dick and completely unfounded.

I simply posed it as a question and how bad I felt about the situation once I'd heard the news.

In the end, will we see a roid-less Cushing continue to beast on the field? Or did we draft the next Brian Bosworth? Time will tell, but considering the horrible feeling I've had all weekend I'd have to bet on the latter

Brando
05-10-2010, 12:44 PM
This is why I think we should all reserve judgment about our team-member. It's true if he were on another team, we would all be on top of this with speculation, and accusations. But he is not on another team, he is on our team, and we should be supportive, and cautious.

That doesn't mean we should be stupid.

He tested positive in September. Can we assume he was clean the rest of the season? If it were Steroids, and he quit in September, would he have played like the DROY? would he have played like a pro-bowler?

If it were a supplement that helps him recover quicker? Would that be a bad thing? would it be as bad as a steroid? Really, is there anything other than steroids that really work, that should be banned?

HGH is the only thing I can think of, but there isn't a method for testing.

This is what I'm thinking in light of the Adam Schefter report. If he tested positive in September of 2009 that means he had random drug test the rest of the year and he passed them. That would mean he will be the same player when he comes back.

I like this quote by Cush......

My dedication to a championship season in 2010 continues undeterred.
:fingergun:

False Start
05-10-2010, 12:46 PM
If he failed in September, I'm sure they tested him quite a bit throughout the season to see if he was still taking the substance.. So, I guess he passed them all. Everyone makes mistakes, and he is paying for it. He did however, let his team, and the organization down.

I still got his back. though. :jam:

Texan_Bill
05-10-2010, 12:47 PM
I simply posed it as a question and how bad I felt about the situation once I'd heard the news.

Turn the frown upside down mister... Think more Julius Peppers than "the Boz". :shades:

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 12:47 PM
Folks, as in plural?

I think it's one person, no?

The guy has reamed out anybody who disagrees with him. And we've been more fair to him than he deserves, IMO.
We? lol. If you didn't post material that I found so objectionable, I wouldn't need to voice my strong disagreement with it. Btw, I didn't call you any names. So chill out.

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 12:49 PM
I simply posed it as a question and how bad I felt about the situation once I'd heard the news.

Fine, you posed it as a question. I still think it's unwarranted. Is there a single similarity between Bosworth and Cushing besides they are both LBs?

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 12:51 PM
If he failed in September, I'm sure they tested him quite a bit throughout the season to see if he was still taking the substance.. So, I guess he passed them all. Everyone makes mistakes, and he is paying for it. He did however, let his team, and the organization down.

I still got his back. though. :jam:

In the end, I think we all have Cush's back. I'm only worried about what Cush we're going to see come week 5. I hope he takes it as a slap and the face and comes out knockin piss outta people.

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 12:52 PM
Geez, dude. I never said there weren't limits. It's pretty obvious people have limits in growth. I said plateau.

So you're telling me that an athlete does NOT gain confidence while using steroids? If you lifted weights or trained for a particular event, wouldn't your confidence build each time you increase in weight, get a bit faster than the previous week? Will he have that same confidence now having to train without the PEDs? I don't think he will until he can prove it to himself that he can get the results naturally.
Look, with this and the other posts, I just think you're being unfair to the guy. We have no idea how much confidence he did or didn't get from what he was taking, and we don't even know what he was taking in the first place. So this talk from you and GP about the psychological consequences, and which famous player that turned to shit Cushing will most resemble, is unfounded and pointless in my opinion. I don't understand why we can't just support the guy and see what happens before we compare him to Giambi and Bosworth etc.

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm not sure that any source has yet laid out a timeline of when he tested positive, to when he was informed, to when he appealed, and if in the interim there was another positive test that sealed his fate.

GP
05-10-2010, 12:54 PM
We? lol. If you didn't post material that I found so objectionable, I wouldn't need to voice my strong disagreement with it. Btw, I didn't call you any names. So chill out.

Who appointed you judge, jury, and executioner?

You lace your replies with insults, and it isn't buying you much on here.

Just respect people WHILE disagreeing with them. Please.

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 12:55 PM
Turn the frown upside down mister... Think more Julius Peppers than "the Boz". :shades:

I'm beginning to, TB. Remember how I said I felt after the titans MNF game? That's how I felt upon hearing the news on Cush. Like a swift kick in the package.

Fine, you posed it as a question. I still think it's unwarranted. Is there a single similarity between Bosworth and Cushing besides they are both LBs?

LOL, there's probably not many similarities between the two. He was just the first thing that entered my mind at the time. I just remembered all the rumors about the Boz and steroids when he played for OU.

GP
05-10-2010, 12:57 PM
Look, with this and the other posts, I just think you're being unfair to the guy. We have no idea how much confidence he did or didn't get from what he was taking, and we don't even know what he was taking in the first place. So this talk from you and GP about the psychological consequences, and which famous player that turned to shit Cushing will most resemble, is unfounded and pointless in my opinion. I don't understand why we can't just support the guy and see what happens before we compare him to Giambi and Bosworth etc.

I support the guy. I care enough to post on it, and I care enough to wade through your insult-laced, profanity-riddled replies while doing it.

You act as if only YOU are in his corner. As if YOU are the sole voice of reason on here.

I see lots of people who are dealing with a vast array of reasoning and emotions on this, but you are trying to invalidate anyone who doesn't match YOUR opinion and respect YOUR words.

So insult them, and that's gonna' do the trick? Nope.

Texan_Bill
05-10-2010, 12:58 PM
I'm beginning to, TB. Remember how I said I felt after the titans MNF game? That's how I felt upon hearing the news on Cush. Like a swift kick in the package.



LOL, there's probably not many similarities between the two. He was just the first thing that entered my mind at the time. I just remembered all the rumors about the Boz and steroids when he played for OU.

I know how you felt. I felt like I had been kicked in the junk at first too. After digesting it a bit over the weekend, I'm in the let's "wait and see what happens" mode.

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 12:58 PM
In the end, I think we all have Cush's back. I'm only worried about what Cush we're going to see come week 5. I hope he takes it as a slap and the face and comes out knockin piss outta people.

Look, with this and the other posts, I just think you're being unfair to the guy. We have no idea how much confidence he did or didn't get from what he was taking, and we don't even know what he was taking in the first place. So this talk from you and GP about the psychological consequences, and which famous player that turned to shit Cushing will most resemble, is unfounded and pointless in my opinion. I don't understand why we can't just support the guy and see what happens before we compare him to Giambi and Bosworth etc.

See my post above. I do and will support him. I think we're talkin hypotheticals

Second Honeymoon
05-10-2010, 12:58 PM
the blame game

cushing is to blame for getting busted and costing the team 4 games

the texans took a risk and drafted him amidst the suspicions and reports...
...i won't blame the texans for taking a risk because they need to be willing to take risks

however i will blame the Texans for not helping the team's defense in Free Agency because you gotta feel they thought the suspension would be upheld and that Cushing would be suspended. they stood pat even with the impending spectre of his suspension.

i will give them credit for drafting Sharpton though, and that pick makes more sense now that the news has broken.

now that Haynesworth is being badmouthed by his teammates, maybe we should make a call to Washington and see what it would take to get him in a Texans uniform. Yeah its a risk, but the NFL is a risk and you gotta be willing to take them if you want to succeed.

send the Skins a 3rd Rounder that turns into a 2nd Rounder and a 5th Rounder if the Texans make the playoffs in 2010. We offset the 4 game loss of Cushing by adding Haynesworth and you show the fans that we are truly focused on making 2010 a successful Texans season.

Then Week 5 you get Cushing back and hope he is still effective and is ready to contribute to the team.

as for the warring on this thread, everyone agrees that Cushing screwed up. we all want the Texans to improve next year and make the playoffs. To act like Cushing isn't at fault or that 'everyone is doing it' is just foolish. Brian made a huge mistake. I will never support steroid use for any of my teams i follow. it's wrong, it is unsafe, and its unethical. period. stop trying to belittle people or act like its no big deal. Its a VERY big deal.

OK, Texans front office. It's time to be proactive and get this team in a position to succeed with or without Cushing moving forward. Grabbing Haynesworth at the right price both salary-wise and draft pick compensation-wise makes sense now more than ever. Send us a message that we aren't going to stand pat and hope for the best.

take care everyone and I hope everyone had a great Mother's Day with their mother or with their mother's memory.

Texecutioner
05-10-2010, 01:00 PM
God, dude, seriously?

What do you know about what he was using or when or what edge it gave him? Never seen so much armchair psychoanalyzing in my life.

You don't know shit about Cushing, what he took, when he took it, why he took it, what he will take in the future, whether he "dwells on the past" or just "moves forward". I very much doubt you know half of what you think you do about Romanowski or Giambi either, and those comparisons are ridiculous to begin with.

Seriously man, just stop it.

What are you even defending at this point? People like GP and Hou-Tex are simply looking at old examples of players who tested positive for banned substances and recalling how their play dropped off. Not one of them has bashed Cushing nor has anyone else from what I've read. You keep saying that no one in here knows anything about what he did or didn't do, but the entire country knows he took a banned substance last year now. That's not speculation anymore. It happened and it's a fact in history. Players take substances to enhance their performance and the NFL and all other major sports typically ban substances that they've done research on to tell that those certain substances enhance their performance or helps them to heal faster which goes right back to enhancing performance.

Just because you can't understand why this is a problem for Cushing and the Texans doesn't mean you should denounce everyone in here or call them names. It doesn't make you look any smarter either. I'm still waiting for you to show some sort of statistical evidence or facts that backs up all of your claims that 90% of the players in the NFL are using PED's to where it's not a big deal. No one has doubted that there are probably other players, but you don't seem to have any problem throwing out some random 90% figure without any evidence or data to back up that claim. It's just random figures that you came up with on your own at this point to justify Cushing's choices to take banned substances.

GP
05-10-2010, 01:01 PM
I'm not sure that any source has yet laid out a timeline of when he tested positive, to when he was informed, to when he appealed, and if in the interim there was another positive test that sealed his fate.

Which, IIRC from what you posted earlier about the NFL policy, only creates the enormous strain we're experiencing right now.

There's a provision that protects players from the stigma of everyone knowing exactly WHAT the accused player consumed. This is not helping anyone, and it's obviously a well-intended clause that has actually done more to harm the whole thing than to help it.

Now we have CUSHING'S side, and that's it. Well, that irks me. Theg uy who failed the test gets to paint the picture how he wants it. Yet HE is the one who was in violation of the policies. Bass-ackwards to me.

Texecutioner
05-10-2010, 01:04 PM
the blame game

cushing is to blame for getting busted and costing the team 4 games

the texans took a risk and drafted him amidst the suspicions and reports...
...i won't blame the texans for taking a risk because they need to be willing to take risks

however i will blame the Texans for not helping the team's defense in Free Agency because you gotta feel they thought the suspension would be upheld and that Cushing would be suspended. they stood pat even with the impending spectre of his suspension.

i will give them credit for drafting Sharpton though, and that pick makes more sense now that the news has broken.

now that Haynesworth is being badmouthed by his teammates, maybe we should make a call to Washington and see what it would take to get him in a Texans uniform. Yeah its a risk, but the NFL is a risk and you gotta be willing to take them if you want to succeed.

send the Skins a 3rd Rounder that turns into a 2nd Rounder and a 5th Rounder if the Texans make the playoffs in 2010. We offset the 4 game loss of Cushing by adding Haynesworth and you show the fans that we are truly focused on making 2010 a successful Texans season.

Then Week 5 you get Cushing back and hope he is still effective and is ready to contribute to the team.

as for the warring on this thread, everyone agrees that Cushing screwed up. we all want the Texans to improve next year and make the playoffs. To act like Cushing isn't at fault or that 'everyone is doing it' is just foolish. Brian made a huge mistake. I will never support steroid use for any of my teams i follow. it's wrong, it is unsafe, and its unethical. period. stop trying to belittle people or act like its no big deal. Its a VERY big deal.

OK, Texans front office. It's time to be proactive and get this team in a position to succeed with or without Cushing moving forward. Grabbing Haynesworth at the right price both salary-wise and draft pick compensation-wise makes sense now more than ever. Send us a message that we aren't going to stand pat and hope for the best.

take care everyone and I hope everyone had a great Mother's Day with their mother or with their mother's memory.

Good post SH. We definitely need to try and get our hands on an upgrade at S or DT right now. Hell, we could still use another CB if one comes available. I think our offense is going to be fine so we need to keep stacking this defense. Cushing being out for 4 games is a huge loss.

El Tejano
05-10-2010, 01:11 PM
LOL. Just thought of something to stir the pot here (not the NFL-banned pot, by the way. I don't Roger coming here and looking into things because I said "pot").

Kubiak is going to have a built-in excuse if we don't reach the playoffs.

McLain: "Bob, can you discuss the disappointment of not making the playoffs. Again?"

McNair: "Well, at the end of the year...we got together and looked back on the season and really found that Gary did an excellent job of dealing with some adversity at the beginning of the season. Those one or two games there, with Brian out, would have put us into the playoffs.........."

(Sigh)

I can almost hear it now....:tv:
Ironically the first thing that I thought when I heard all this.

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 01:12 PM
What are you even defending at this point? People like GP and Hou-Tex are simply looking at old examples of players who tested positive for banned substances and recalling how their play dropped off. Not one of them has bashed Cushing nor has anyone else from what I've read. You keep saying that no one in here knows anything about what he did or didn't do, but the entire country knows he took a banned substance last year now. That's not speculation anymore. It happened and it's a fact in history. Players take substances to enhance their performance and the NFL and all other major sports typically ban substances that they've done research on to tell that those certain substances enhance their performance or helps them to heal faster which goes right back to enhancing performance.

Just because you can't understand why this is a problem for Cushing and the Texans doesn't mean you should denounce everyone in here or call them names. It doesn't make you look any smarter either. I'm still waiting for you to show some sort of statistical evidence or facts that backs up all of your claims that 90% of the players in the NFL are using PED's to where it's not a big deal. No one has doubted that there are probably other players, but you don't seem to have any problem throwing out some random 90% figure without any evidence or data to back up that claim. It's just random figures that you came up with on your own at this point to justify Cushing's choices to take banned substances.
Are you having a hard time reading my posts? Because you've done nothing but put words in my mouth. This is the last time I'll correct you on it because I'm tired of repeating myself.

Did I say Cushing's suspension isn't a problem? Nope.
Did I say 90% of the NFL uses steroids? Nope.
Did I say we don't know if Cushing failed the drug test? Nope.
Did I say Cushing is justified for failing the drug test? Nope.

Pure fail. You can't accurately depict a single thing I've said.

Check the other thread for my actual thoughts if you want to stop making up what I said. And of course there is no statistical evidence. Like I said, you believe what you want, the rest of us will continue on in reality.

As far as knowing what he took, yeah we know he took something on the banned substance list, but since we are talking about psychological consequences in this discussion with HOUTEX and GP, we have no freaking idea what the consequences are of what he took because we don't know what he took. Newsflash: not every drug on the banned list has the exact same effect.

You're just all over the place dude. So focused on trying to show that I'm wrong you don't even have a clue what it is I've said. Sad.

El Tejano
05-10-2010, 01:15 PM
Good post SH. We definitely need to try and get our hands on an upgrade at S or DT right now. Hell, we could still use another CB if one comes available. I think our offense is going to be fine so we need to keep stacking this defense. Cushing being out for 4 games is a huge loss.

I agree. SH made a great post. I stated in the Xavier Adibi thread that we needed to get Haynesworth now. I know it sounds like a knee jerk reaction but we need another guy out there that wants to play in a 4-3 defense and can automatically upgrade our defense while keeping OLs off whatever LBs we have right now.

Orakpo's 12 sack season wasn't just because of Orakpo. Noone else sees how KVB's production went down withouth Haynesworth?

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 01:15 PM
I support the guy. I care enough to post on it, and I care enough to wade through your insult-laced, profanity-riddled replies while doing it.

You act as if only YOU are in his corner. As if YOU are the sole voice of reason on here.

I see lots of people who are dealing with a vast array of reasoning and emotions on this, but you are trying to invalidate anyone who doesn't match YOUR opinion and respect YOUR words.

So insult them, and that's gonna' do the trick? Nope.
There are plenty of people who agree with me. I don't waste everyone's time by quoting them and saying YEAH DUDE I AGREE WITH U. I rep them and move on to those I don't agree with.

As far as trying to "invalidate" people, yeah, if I think you are spreading misinformation or making poor comparisons I will say so. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to argue against me. I've never denied anyone the right to respond to me, so what's your problem?

Also, as far as insults, you seem more focused on attacking me than on what any of my points are. Why is that?

Goldensilence
05-10-2010, 01:16 PM
I think most people have Brian's "back" and don't feel the need to post "hey Brian dude, I got your back!"

Regardless , there's still questions and there's still going to be questions headed into next year. This doesn't mean that you don't support Brian as a Texan any less.

These are the things we know right now:

1.Brian tested positive for a banned substance or something on the list.
2. He's got a 4 game suspension.

That's about it.

What he could do to tell his "side" of the story:

1. Release a statement or do an interview. Do it within the next day or two.
2. Tell us what he could've tested positive for.
3. If it was steroids I think it would be best just to admit it and say I used steroids, I tested positive in Sept 09. I haven't tested positive since. It was a mistake I won't repeat.
4. Work with the team when he can. Show up in shape and ready to go once the season starts and play up to the same ability he did prior to us finding out.

Doing all that would answer any lingering questions people have about him in the fan base and league wide.

Maybe it's a part of me that's old school, but my initial reaction isn't just whether he cheated or not, but when there's steroids involved I always worry about about the long term effects on the athlete.

2slik4u
05-10-2010, 01:18 PM
Am I the only one suprised that Cush got caught??? I had a sneaking suspicion that he was jusicing all along. Im not mad or pissed like most out there. I wouldve been more suprised if he never got caught in his career. Hopefully he doesnt get caught again.

Was it worth it? 4 games for a defensive rookie of the year AND our first winning season that he had a HUGE hand in giving to us?

I vote yes personally. Its a huge PR nightmare and his reputation is obviously going to take a bigtime hit.....but be serious, the dude juiced in college/highschool and now apparently in the pros. No big suprise here.

Im not saying its ok to do it but the fact is Cush is a beast and now we know 100% why. Hes still one of my top three texans. He obviously wants to give it all to playing football, if he wants to risk his health thats his deal.

Ill welcome you back Cush come week 5 although I wish we had you for the Colts and the Cowboys.

Hopefully Sharpton blows the lid off this place.

NitroGSXR
05-10-2010, 01:21 PM
Can I call him Brian Pin Cushion?

*in my best wagonhed voice*

Not all steroids are injectable, you ****ing *****. Come to the discussion armed with facts! I mean look at the goddamn pictures! I'm sick and tired of these people and their ****ing incompetence. I think I'm going to take a break from this board and its mother****ing retarded idiots for a few days. ****!

Texecutioner
05-10-2010, 01:31 PM
Did I say Cushing's suspension isn't a problem? Nope.

You've rationalized it and brought up other players to help make your point as if it changes the fact that Cush is suspended.


Did I say 90% of the NFL uses steroids? Nope.

Actually yes, you have.


Did I say we don't know if Cushing failed the drug test? Nope.

No, but you just don't seem to care and for anyone else that's even remotely questioned the fact that his play or his confidence might drop off, you've abrasively denounced them or their thoughts.


Did I say Cushing is justified for failing the drug test? Nope.

Not in any exact words, but you practically have for several pages indirectly.



As far as knowing what he took, yeah we know he took something on the banned substance list, but since we are talking about psychological consequences in this discussion with HOUTEX and GP, we have no freaking idea what the consequences are of what he took because we don't know what he took. Newsflash: not every drug on the banned list has the exact same effect.

Okay then, so it's not out of the question for either of them to wonder if there will be any effects after the fact then. Neither of them said there would be effects for sure either. They just questioned it. No need to try to pick people apart for that. It's very reasonable.

You're just all over the place dude. So focused on trying to show that I'm wrong you don't even have a clue what it is I've said. Sad.

Don't think I ever said that you were wrong even once. What I did was ask for you to provide some sort of evidence to back up your own claims and this is your 3rd response now where you refuse to provide anything to back up the arguments that you've made to denounce other posters. I'll keep waiting, but I won't expect anything at this point.

b0ng
05-10-2010, 02:00 PM
So lets see what's going on with rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=173014)
According to Associated Press advisor Dave Goldberg, the AP may hold a re-vote for the 2009 Defensive Rookie of the Year award.

Oh come the **** on.

thunderkyss
05-10-2010, 02:06 PM
How many people honestly would be willing to wait around and see the player's side of the story if it was found out Chris Johnson tested positive? We get it. You're willing to give Cushing the benefit solely because he's a Texan.

I would bet you would have the majority of Tack fans saying we should wait. That's what they're supposed to do. What we've got here, IMHO is extremely unhealthy.

That's where I'd say a lot of the anger is coming from on here.

And I am fine with the anger. I'm fine with calling him out for being a little bit selfish. All I'm saying, is let's not call him out for doing something he didn't do.

It would be like convicting Haynesworth for sodomizing Andre Garrard. Haynesworth was wrong, and should have been punished for what he did to Andre, but to go overboard, and start saying and blaming Albert for something he did not do doesn't make sense.

Even with the evidence they had, Tacks fans were still able to defend their player.

Ole Miss Texan
05-10-2010, 02:09 PM
So lets see what's going on with rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=173014)


Oh come the **** on.

Oooh, don't do it!!

gtexan02
05-10-2010, 02:14 PM
Did anyone see the bodybuilding singles ad next to the post on rotoworld?

Dutchrudder
05-10-2010, 02:21 PM
So lets see what's going on with rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=173014)


Oh come the **** on.

Super, this guy fails one substance test for unknown reasons, and now he doesn't deserve his DROY. Talk about guilty until proven innocent. I really hope it comes out that he was taking Sudafed for a sinus issue so we can trot out this NFL policy into the light and expose it for how ridiculous it is.

Ole Miss Texan
05-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Super, a this guy fails one substance test for unknown reasons, and now he doesn't deserve his DROY. Talk about guilty until proven innocent. I really hope it comes out that he was taking Sudafed for a sinus issue so we can trot out this NFL policy into the light and expose it for how ridiculous it is.

This is why in most cases a team or league will say something to the effect, "we're aware of the situation and in the process of gathering all the facts we can before we make a decision." I think a lot of us are in the same position: This with Cushing doesn't completely surprise us, it doesn't look good, but we still know so little. I hate rushing to judgement and have learned to take the advice of what a lot of attorneys say. Don't speak in absolutes or it'll come back to bite you! In this case, with the DROY talks, there is no reason to rush to a decision. They need to let this thing play out.

The1ApplePie
05-10-2010, 02:50 PM
I keep harping on it, but I think this will really make us regret skipping Navarro Bowman in the draft

beerlover
05-10-2010, 02:54 PM
respectfully request moderators remove the steroid label.

thank you

Goldensilence
05-10-2010, 02:55 PM
Super, this guy fails one substance test for unknown reasons, and now he doesn't deserve his DROY. Talk about guilty until proven innocent. I really hope it comes out that he was taking Sudafed for a sinus issue so we can trot out this NFL policy into the light and expose it for how ridiculous it is.

I think this is what gets me. If it was something like sudafed, which I doubt it is, then Cushing needs to make a statement or do an interview regarding what WAS taken. If the NFL cannot disclose what the substance was taken, than IMO Cushing needs to volunteer as much information as possible and quickly as possible.


I keep harping on it, but I think this will really make us regret skipping Navarro Bowman in the draft

I think we have ok depth at the LBer spot. I think even knowing this was coming it's still a bit of a surprise to take Sharpton who isn't really an elite athlete or put up killer numbers a the U.

I know people are trying to bump him up as a reason as to WHY we still took him, but I still think he's got some pretty decent guys to leap frog before he would get any PT.

ObsiWan
05-10-2010, 03:02 PM
:worldpeace:

Dutchrudder
05-10-2010, 03:02 PM
respectfully request moderators remove the steroid label.

thank you

This.

I think this is what gets me. If it was something like sudafed, which I doubt it is, then Cushing needs to make a statement or do an interview regarding what WAS taken. If the NFL cannot disclose what the substance was taken, than IMO Cushing needs to volunteer as much information as possible and quickly as possible.



Yeah, I agree, he should come out and say exactly what he took and whether or it was accidental or not. The NFL won't do anything to him if he does, but we still can not corroborate it as truth. It would be totally awesome if it was for taking Sudafed or a non-PED banned substance, and it would exonerate him in the fan's eyes. I would certainly feel much better about the situation if he was hooked for a silly technicality.

Dutchrudder
05-10-2010, 03:05 PM
We're mechanical engineers, aeronautical engineers, physics majors, robotics engineers, and electrical engineers. We build spacesuites, spacecraft, satellites, and propulsion systems. How do these things translate to drug testing again?
:worldpeace:

I actually know several biochemistry, biology and nutrition experts who work for NASA and its contractors. They all work specifically with the astronauts or to develop food and other physiological processes for life in space (exercise, diets, etc). Those people probably could work in an industry like that, but I don't think they are the one's being laid off in the near future.

HuttoKarl
05-10-2010, 03:12 PM
I don't know what he took, but maybe he should give some to Amobi.

Ole Miss Texan
05-10-2010, 03:12 PM
respectfully request moderators remove the steroid label.

thank you

thirded ;)

NitroGSXR
05-10-2010, 03:14 PM
respectfully request moderators remove the steroid label.

thank you

Agreed. Change it to...

Appeal DENIED! Cushing suspended 4 games: Caught masking!

*or*

Cushing catches cold! NFL throws gauntlet down in appeal hearing! Suspended 4 games!

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2010, 03:16 PM
The title was changed a few minutes ago. I know it will not soften the blow to the team, nor this fan, as Cushing being suspended for four games hurts no matter the reason.

beerlover
05-10-2010, 03:23 PM
The title was changed a few minutes ago. I know it will not soften the blow to the team, nor this fan, as Cushing being suspended for four games hurts no matter the reason.

thanks mods for all you do :)

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 03:25 PM
Good call.

Big Lou
05-10-2010, 03:30 PM
I don't know what he took, but maybe he should give some to Amobi.


Why do that, we all know Amobi won't show up for 4 games this year!! HAHAHAHA

ChrisG
05-10-2010, 03:32 PM
Dont know if it has been posted yet (hard to keep up wit this thread). Rotoworld is reporting Cush may be stripped of DROY award. They are considering a revote

HoustonFrog
05-10-2010, 03:32 PM
Updates

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5176949

The Associated Press will decide later Monday whether it is going to change last year's selection of Houston Texans linebacker Brian Cushing as Defensive Rookie of the Year, a source told ESPN.com's John Clayton.

Barry Wilner, who oversees the AP's balloting for its postseason awards, earlier had told ESPN.com's Tim Graham on Monday that the wire service was looking into whether to strip Cushing of the award.

Texans owner Robert McNair said Monday the team knew during the season that Cushing had "an issue" with the NFL.

"Brian had mentioned that he had an issue there, but we don't know what any of the details are," McNair said.

McNair said the team didn't know what doctors he consulted or what evidence the league had. McNair added that being "left out of the loop" is something that should be addressed in the next collective bargaining agreement.

Malloy
05-10-2010, 03:36 PM
Updates

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5176949

On NFL.com now also.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8180cb8d&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

The Pencil Neck
05-10-2010, 03:38 PM
I'm not sure that any source has yet laid out a timeline of when he tested positive, to when he was informed, to when he appealed, and if in the interim there was another positive test that sealed his fate.

From what I've seen from LZ and Schefter:


Cush tested positive sometime before September.
He was apparently notified some time in September.
He appealed in February.
His appeal was denied and the sentence passed last week.


If he'd had a second positive, he would have been suspended for a year. So his denial was just based on whatever he presented in his appeal.

The Pencil Neck
05-10-2010, 03:41 PM
If he gets stripped of the DROY...

Some people gonna get the piss knocked out of them when he comes back.

GuerillaBlack
05-10-2010, 03:55 PM
This is what I'm thinking in light of the Adam Schefter report. If he tested positive in September of 2009 that means he had random drug test the rest of the year and he passed them. That would mean he will be the same player when he comes back.

I like this quote by Cush......


:fingergun:

Not sure if this has been said, but wasn't this around the time he injured his leg? He had to miss some of the preseason. Maybe he used whatever it was to help his injury and be able to go for Week 1.

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 03:55 PM
From what I've seen from LZ and Schefter:


Cush tested positive sometime before September.
He was apparently notified some time in September.
He appealed in February.
His appeal was denied and the sentence passed last week.


If he'd had a second positive, he would have been suspended for a year. So his denial was just based on whatever he presented in his appeal.

The reason I even asked is that it takes so long for an appeal to be acted on, could another infraction, say in December or later, not still be in the pike?
Just wondering.

Allstar
05-10-2010, 03:56 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5176949

Sources: Cushing might lose award

The Associated Press will decide later Monday whether it is going to change last year's selection of Houston Texans linebacker Brian Cushing as Defensive Rookie of the Year, a source told ESPN.com's John Clayton.

Barry Wilner, who oversees the AP's balloting for its postseason awards, earlier had told ESPN.com's Tim Graham on Monday that the wire service was looking into whether to strip Cushing of the award.

Cushing was suspended for the first four games in 2010 for violating the league's steroid policy. He was tested last September, league sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

Although Cushing said his positive test was not for a steroid related substance, the positive test was for something that was considered performance enhancing. Cushing appealed the decision and lost that appeal.

Texans owner Robert McNair said Monday the team knew during the season that Cushing had "an issue" with the NFL.

"Brian had mentioned that he had an issue there, but we don't know what any of the details are," McNair said.

McNair said the team didn't know what doctors he consulted or what evidence the league had. McNair added that being "left out of the loop" is something that should be addressed in the next collective bargaining agreement.

Because the positive test dates to September of last year, AP has to determine whether to stand by its selection of Cushing, who had 39 votes. Bills safety Jairus Byrd has six votes, Packers linebacker Clay Matthews had three and Redskins linebacker Brian Orakpo had two votes.

Cushing will miss the Texans' first four games of the 2010 season (Houston's opponents: Indianapolis, Washington, Dallas and Oakland).

Cushing can participate in preseason practices and games.

Cushing, the 15th overall pick in last year's draft out of Southern California, had 133 tackles in 2009. The Texans finished 9-7 last season for their first winning record thanks in part to the improvement of a young defense that features Cushing, star middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans and 2006 top overall pick Mario Williams.

Veteran Kevin Bentley, who appeared in each game for Houston last season but never started, is Cushing's backup at outside linebacker.

Cushing was hounded by rumors of performance-enhancing drug use before he became a pro, but the Texans were undeterred. They said then they found no truth to those rumors in their draft preparations.

beerlover
05-10-2010, 04:02 PM
its a damn good thing beer is not considered performance enhancing I would be pissed if they would suspend me four games for watching NFL football :wesmantexanfan:

ChampionTexan
05-10-2010, 04:12 PM
The reason I even asked is that it takes so long for an appeal to be acted on, could another infraction, say in December or later, not still be in the pike?
Just wondering.

But while it absolutely doesn't fit the timeline we've seen (Tested positive in 9/09 suspension announced 5/10), if you look at the league steroid policy, is does seem to encourage a speedy process.

Without quoting (and recognizing anything can be deferred given mutual consent to do so), the policy (appendix D points 6 - 9) gives the player 5 days to notify the NFL of an intent to appeal a penalty, it gives 20 days from the date of that notification for the appeal to take place, and it gives 5 days from the "Closing of the record" (Which I am perhaps incorrectly taking to mean the ending of the appeal hearing) until a written decision is rendered. (Note: I do not see anything giving any guidelines on when the rendered decision must be made public).

I realize nothing about the apparent timeline in this even remotely adheres to those guidelines, but I would also like to believe that if there were a possiblity of a second penalty being issued, the NFL and Cushing would agree that it would be best to make everything public at one time.

awtysst
05-10-2010, 04:13 PM
its a damn good thing beer is not considered performance enhancing I would be pissed if they would suspend me four games for watching NFL football :wesmantexanfan:

If Beer was a Perfromance Enhancer, you would be banned from watching NFL for life!!!

awtysst
05-10-2010, 04:14 PM
You've rationalized it and brought up other players to help make your point as if it changes the fact that Cush is suspended.



Actually yes, you have.




No, but you just don't seem to care and for anyone else that's even remotely questioned the fact that his play or his confidence might drop off, you've abrasively denounced them or their thoughts.




Not in any exact words, but you practically have for several pages indirectly.





Okay then, so it's not out of the question for either of them to wonder if there will be any effects after the fact then. Neither of them said there would be effects for sure either. They just questioned it. No need to try to pick people apart for that. It's very reasonable.



Don't think I ever said that you were wrong even once. What I did was ask for you to provide some sort of evidence to back up your own claims and this is your 3rd response now where you refuse to provide anything to back up the arguments that you've made to denounce other posters. I'll keep waiting, but I won't expect anything at this point.

Game set and Match. Winner: Texecutioner!

Texecutioner
05-10-2010, 04:22 PM
If Beer was a Perfromance Enhancer, you would be banned from watching NFL for life!!!

Shoot, his name is Beerlover. Lol!

He wouldn't be able to even associate with other fans then. He'd be like the Jose Canseco of fans. Lol!

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 04:26 PM
Per Schefter Twitter:

Brian Cushing took and passed a lie-detector test to prove he was not guilty of taking a PED. Yet his four-game suspension still stands.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

GP
05-10-2010, 04:28 PM
There are plenty of people who agree with me. I don't waste everyone's time by quoting them and saying YEAH DUDE I AGREE WITH U. I rep them and move on to those I don't agree with.

As far as trying to "invalidate" people, yeah, if I think you are spreading misinformation or making poor comparisons I will say so. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to argue against me. I've never denied anyone the right to respond to me, so what's your problem?

Also, as far as insults, you seem more focused on attacking me than on what any of my points are. Why is that?

You and I have very different views over in the NSZ forum, and I think you're bringing that over into the Texans Talk forum here. You're not able to separate the two forums.

Gtexan02 is a guy who has had multiple debates with me in the NSZ forum, yet in THIS forum we're civil as can be...and we find a way to separate the two forums and the subsequent "heat" it generates.

YOU were the one who came onto the NSZ forum and sheepishly asked if this would be a place where you wouldn't get banned for stating your takes on things (Implying--or maybe I just "inferred"--that you HAD been in some trouble on other website forums). Everyone assured you that you could do relatively OK, if you kept some things in mind.

I'd say you're still treading water in the deep end of the pool right now. You're flaming lots of people for so many different trivial reasons that it's not even funny, and I can't believe how much grace has been given you thus far. The mods are sitting back, actually allowing the members of the board to try and h-e-l-p you see how to get along on here. Don't waste the grace. Please?

I have not insulted you here. Show me where I use a curse word that i toss at you. i haven't. Show me where I call you a moron or an *****, etc. You seem to have an inability to treat others with the same respect and honor that you require others to pay you.

Someone once said that most times, the common denominator of all your unhealthy relationships...is you. You've insulted so many of my friends on here that I think I know the fix for my end of the deal.

I just need to go to my control panel to inititate the measure.

Runner
05-10-2010, 04:29 PM
It is unfortunate for the Texans that this has occurred, but the circumstances leading to Cushing's suspension will probably never be known to the public in more detail. As I understand it, the NFL can't release any further information, and Cushing can say just about anything he wants.

Barring a release of the official NFL report by Cushing, I take anything he says with a large dose of skepticism. I've seen the PED dance with too athletes in too many sports to trust what they say, especially if it is unsubstantiated by indepedent sources or facts.

===============

There was a fairly widespread commitment to this year being the season of "No More Excuses" for the Texans and their fans. It looks like that commitment will be tested early in the upcoming season.

Jackie Chiles
05-10-2010, 04:30 PM
I've posted earlier in the thread how disappointed I am in Brian but taking away his DROY is pretty suspect. Chris Mortensen had an interesting tweet about Julius Peppers winning the award in 2002, a year in which he only played 12 games due to a 4 game substance suspension. Is the AP going to take his award away retroactively as well?

GP
05-10-2010, 04:31 PM
Shoot, his name is Beerlover. Lol!

He wouldn't be able to even associate with other fans then. He'd be like the Jose Canseco of fans. Lol!

Yeah, I've got man boobs a little bit. Am I on a PED? No, but I might just try some if I've already got a head start on a nice rack.

Might as well get strong at the same time? :shrugsshoulders:

No More 8-8's
05-10-2010, 04:32 PM
Per Schefter Twitter:



http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Wait, so he passed a lie detector test. That says alot. Could it be more of an issue with our S&T coach at the time?

beerlover
05-10-2010, 04:34 PM
Shoot, his name is Beerlover. Lol!

He wouldn't be able to even associate with other fans then. He'd be like the Jose Canseco of fans. Lol!

yeah it would be like torture to stand by the lemonade stand while across the concourse fans hit Bud Light Plaza. we be talking some serious roid rage :pissed:

AnthonyE
05-10-2010, 04:36 PM
Not sure if this was posted. But this is from today.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=4096&play_clip=Y

McNair and Rick Smith comment on Cushing.

Texecutioner
05-10-2010, 04:36 PM
yeah it would be like torture to stand by the lemonade stand while across the concourse fans hit Bud Light Plaza. we be talking some serious roid rage :pissed:

It would be like trying to keep Ben Rothlisburger away from a college Spring Break party. Lol!

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 04:40 PM
Yeah, I've got man boobs a little bit. Am I on a PED? No, but I might just try some if I've already got a head start on a nice rack.

Might as well get strong at the same time? :shrugsshoulders:

You might just try some estrogen........will save you the time of having to shave in the morning........ might even save the hair on your head.:shades:

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 04:45 PM
Wait, so he passed a lie detector test. That says alot. Could it be more of an issue with our S&T coach at the time?

A masking agent isn't a PED in itself, but it is still a banned substance. You also have to wonder WHO conducted the test, and what specific questions were posed.

Goldensilence
05-10-2010, 04:48 PM
Per Schefter Twitter:



http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Well that's going to help him in the court of public opinion, but it's not going to do anything for the suspension. Done. It's coming one way or another.

However, like I said good step in the right direction. I'd just like to see a press release from Cushing and/or his representatives talking about WHAT substance he was using that made the test show positive. It needs to be something viable.

Sooner he does so, sooner he can start rebuilding his image.

HoustonFrog
05-10-2010, 04:49 PM
A masking agent isn't a PED in itself, but it is still a banned substance. You also have to wonder WHO conducted the test, and what specific questions were posed.

Was going to say the same. I'm not trying to be skeptical but ever since there was a nationwide debate on what "sexual relations" consists of I always assume that people are trying to hide the true meaning by splitting hairs.

beerlover
05-10-2010, 04:50 PM
It would be like trying to keep Ben Rothlisburger away from a college Spring Break party. Lol!

you mis-spelled Roethlisberger, geez no respect :boogie:

b0ng
05-10-2010, 04:51 PM
Well if he legitimately passed a detector test then I'm not as worried about him coming back and playing badly due to not being on roids.

WWJD
05-10-2010, 04:53 PM
If he passed a lie detector test why didn't Brian say so in his prepared statement?

Tailgate
05-10-2010, 04:55 PM
Well if he legitimately passed a detector test then I'm not as worried about him coming back and playing badly due to not being on roids.

This is my main concern as well. I am going to have to deal with the 4 game misser somehow in the meantime. But how is he going to perform moving forward???

We already know that he is one of the hardest workers out there. So if he was busted last September... then he would have had to pass more tests since then correct? So I guess it still comes down to what did he take and is it something that could have lasted the whole season or whatever?? I just dont know much about all of this stuff.

HoustonFrog
05-10-2010, 04:57 PM
I wanted to know if lie detectors were used before and found this

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/28/sports/pro-football-jets-evans-is-suspended-for-violating-drug-policy.html?pagewanted=1

Josh Evans, a starting defensive tackle for the Jets, was suspended indefinitely by the National Football League yesterday for his third violation of the league's substance-abuse policy.

Evans issued a statement through the office of his agent, Mitch Frankel, insisting that he had not used a banned substance. He noted that he had taken and passed a lie-detector test that was privately administered. ''I cannot believe I am in this situation again,'' he said. ''I embraced the N.F.L. Program for Substances of Abuse, followed its guidelines precisely and have become a better person for it. Everybody will ultimately believe what they want, but to accept punishment for something I did not do is one of the most difficult things I have ever had to endure.''

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/Denver.Broncos.NFL.2.602409.html

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (CBS4/AP) ―
Broncos running back Travis Henry won his appeal of a one-year suspension over a failed drug test Tuesday.

Henry appealed his suspension in early November. He earned the full support of Broncos coach Mike Shanahan after he passed a polygraph test and had a hair sample come back negative for marijuana.

League spokesman Greg Aiello said that had no bearing on the decision.

"The defense of hair samples and lie detector tests was irrelevant and unconvincing," Aiello said in a statement. "But our substance abuse program is based on meeting the highest standards and respecting player rights in all phases of its administration."

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 04:58 PM
Updates


Texans owner Robert McNair said Monday the team knew during the season that Cushing had "an issue" with the NFL.

"Brian had mentioned that he had an issue there, but we don't know what any of the details are," McNair said.

McNair said the team didn't know what doctors he consulted or what evidence the league had. McNair added that being "left out of the loop" is something that should be addressed in the next collective bargaining agreement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5176949

Does something about Texans fans give us away to the front office?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:KFFnuxsC94iiYM:http://stii.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/a96831_a511_random2-stupid2.jpg

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 05:02 PM
If he passed a lie detector test why didn't Brian say so in his prepared statement?

Because he thought the results might be perceived as suspect if it were found out that his father administered it?:tiphat:

LonerATO
05-10-2010, 05:15 PM
I wonder if he can get the league to post his results and the substance that he tested for?

Second Honeymoon
05-10-2010, 05:17 PM
As the world turns

this lie detector claim should be eyed with some skepticism

I hope for the best for Cushing but it's pretty much a done deal
maybe our Texas legislature could follow Minnesota's lead and put down an injunction nullifying the ruling until it can be reviewed by state officials

Goldensilence
05-10-2010, 05:18 PM
I wonder if he can get the league to post his results and the substance that he tested for?

Nope. They can't as per part of the collective bargaining agreement. Cushing has the ability do so on his own though and should.

Tailgate
05-10-2010, 05:19 PM
Tedy Bruschi and Mark Schlereth discuss Brian Cushing's suspension on NFL Live:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/11697/video-should-cushing-lose-roy-award

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 05:23 PM
As the world turns

this lie detector claim should be eyed with some skepticism

I hope for the best for Cushing but it's pretty much a done deal
maybe our Texas legislature could follow Minnesota's lead and put down an injunction nullifying the ruling until it can be reviewed by state officials

I think everyone understands the 4 game suspension is inevitable. However, it might ease the minds of fans and media if it was known what he took to fail the drug test. Passing a lie detector test might be a step in that direction?

LonerATO
05-10-2010, 05:37 PM
Nope. They can't as per part of the collective bargaining agreement. Cushing has the ability do so on his own though and should.

Thats what I meant

J_R
05-10-2010, 05:37 PM
Gonna be a re-vote for NFL DROY


BobGlauber (http://twitter.com/BobGlauber)

Just got off the phone with AP Sports Editor Terry Taylor. There will be a re-vote of NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.

dalemurphy
05-10-2010, 05:37 PM
A masking agent isn't a PED in itself, but it is still a banned substance. You also have to wonder WHO conducted the test, and what specific questions were posed.

I agree. That being said, I can't imagine a series of questions that don't ask him "did you take Stereoids"?... if that question was posed, it is irrelevant whether the test showed a masking agent or not... he would still fail the test.

Certainly, it is an encouraging report. But, I would love to see the questions and find out if the person who administered it is reputable.

dalemurphy
05-10-2010, 05:39 PM
Gonna be a re-vote for NFL DROY


BobGlauber (http://twitter.com/BobGlauber)

Just got off the phone with AP Sports Editor Terry Taylor. There will be a re-vote of NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.

That's ridiculous!

As Mark Schlereth pointed out, are they going to re-vote on Peppers DPOY because he tested positive and received a 4 game suspension also?

Having said that. Frankly, I'm glad he has extra motivation.

dtran04
05-10-2010, 05:40 PM
So are they going to re-vote for 2002 and 2005 as well? Shawn Merriman and Julius Peppers should be stripped of it too then.

Tailgate
05-10-2010, 05:40 PM
Gonna be a re-vote for NFL DROY


BobGlauber (http://twitter.com/BobGlauber)

Just got off the phone with AP Sports Editor Terry Taylor. There will be a re-vote of NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.


This is crap. Do they have all the details of this case or something? So they strip him and lets say he comes back just as strong and just as good or maybe better than ever and that 2009 "new" winner will be what to anyone? A joke. At least wait till all the facts come out is all I am saying.

GlassHalfFull
05-10-2010, 05:44 PM
So are they going to re-vote for 2002 and 2005 as well? Shawn Merriman and Julius Peppers should be stripped of it too then.

Eh, I am going to channel Thorn and tell them to kiss my ass.

They can revote all they want. Cushing won the award, and that is what people will remember. At least that is what I will remember.

HOU-TEX
05-10-2010, 05:44 PM
Personally, I care more about the 4 games he's going to miss than the DROY. Unless one of our existing LB's take a huge step or one of our rookies surprise everyone, we don't have an SLB that can do anything close to what Cushing can. I like Bentley, but he's a year older and is borderline starting material to begin with. Time will tell, I reckon

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 05:49 PM
Eh, I am going to channel Thorn and tell them to kiss my ass.

They can revote all they want. Cushing won the award, and that is what people will remember. At least that is what I will remember.

Unfortunately, right or wrong, as things stand now, especially outside of Houston, Cushing's legacy may only be remembered as the Texans LB that took steroids.

J_R
05-10-2010, 05:49 PM
Jay_Glazer (http://twitter.com/Jay_Glazer)

RT @DeadStroke96 (http://twitter.com/DeadStroke96): @Jay_Glazer (http://twitter.com/Jay_Glazer) Schefter reporting Cushing passed a lie detector test that he didn't take PED's, accurate?>Yes, during season

Ole Miss Texan
05-10-2010, 05:55 PM
What I think would be truly Ironic is if they stripped the award from Cushing, gave it to Byrd/Orakpo/Matthews and then a report comes out next week that the player was being suspended for the same the Cushing was. Maybe a test from October and they appealed it and lost. That would be absolutely awesome.

For what it's worth, I'm "okay" with them thinking about taking the award away from Cushing, just not right now. I wish they would let things play out for a while and not rush anything. There is ZERO point for them to do anything right now, ZERO, as opposed to waiting a little while.

b0ng
05-10-2010, 05:58 PM
I blame John McClain.

Jackie Chiles
05-10-2010, 05:59 PM
What I think would be truly Ironic is if the stripped the award from Cushing, gave it to Byrd/Orakpo/Matthews and then a report comes out next week that the player was being suspended for the same the Cushing was. Maybe a test from October and they appealed it and lost. That would be absolutely awesome.

For what it's worth, I'm "okay" with them thinking about taking the award away from Cushing, just not right now. I wish they would let things play out for a while and not rush anything. There is ZERO point for them to do anything right now, ZERO, as opposed to waiting a little while.

Agreed completely but Cushing's rep is working against him right here. He has been linked to the stuff for so long that when he tested positive the immediate assumption is steroids.

Tailgate
05-10-2010, 06:00 PM
I blame John McClain.

I agree with him here though:

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2010/05/the_sports_update_texans_lb_cu.html


The longer Cush waits to come clean on this... the longer it becomes worse for him and in most eyes it will all just be him and his PR crew spinning and playing off the fact that the NFL can not come out and say what it actually was.

Ole Miss Texan
05-10-2010, 06:02 PM
Agreed completely but Cushing's rep is working against him right here. He has been linked to the stuff for so long that when he tested positive the immediate assumption is steroids.

I don't disagree one bit, but that's why they should wait and not let emotions push this.

Reports from Schefter that Cushing passed a lie detector 'proving' he didn't take PEDs are a positive sign in the fans eyes/hearts, IMO. Regardless of the 4 game suspension and IF his award gets taken away - passing the lie detector should at least give us SOME comfort, no?

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 06:03 PM
Jay_Glazer (http://twitter.com/Jay_Glazer)

RT @DeadStroke96 (http://twitter.com/DeadStroke96): @Jay_Glazer (http://twitter.com/Jay_Glazer) Schefter reporting Cushing passed a lie detector test that he didn't take PED's, accurate?>Yes, during season

Yes........didn't take PED's during the season or passed a lie detector test during the season? Why would Glazer know but McNair knows nothing........riiiiiiiight!

NitroGSXR
05-10-2010, 06:05 PM
I don't disagree one bit, but that's why they should wait and not let emotions push this.

Reports from Schefter that Cushing passed a lie detector 'proving' he didn't take PEDs are a positive sign in the fans eyes/hearts, IMO. Regardless of the 4 game suspension and IF his award gets taken away - passing the lie detector should at least give us SOME comfort, no?

I don't get much comfort in him missing 4 games so no.

Allstar
05-10-2010, 06:06 PM
He won in a landslide, hopefully he can still keep a lot of those votes in the re-vote...

Ole Miss Texan
05-10-2010, 06:08 PM
I don't get much comfort in him missing 4 games so no.

Question: Would you rather Cushing have taken Steroids/PEDs and be suspended for 4 games... or would you rather Cushing NOT have taken Steroids/PEDs and be suspended for 4 games.

Either way he's suspended, there's nothing we can do abou that... the question is would you rather him have taken or not take PEDs??? I know what I'd rather.


Edit: but I know what you mean. lol

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 06:09 PM
I agree with him here though:

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2010/05/the_sports_update_texans_lb_cu.html


The longer Cush waits to come clean on this... the longer it becomes worse for him and in most eyes it will all just be him and his PR crew spinning and playing off the fact that the NFL can not come out and say what it actually was.

And G-d help him if he has or will present false or misleading statements, or half-truths.

Ole Miss Texan
05-10-2010, 06:11 PM
Maybe Cushing "mis-remembered" taking Steroids/PEDs???

NitroGSXR
05-10-2010, 06:18 PM
Question: Would you rather Cushing have taken Steroids/PEDs and be suspended for 4 games... or would you rather Cushing NOT have taken Steroids/PEDs and be suspended for 4 games.

Either way he's suspended, there's nothing we can do abou that... the question is would you rather him have taken or not take PEDs??? I know what I'd rather.


Edit: but I know what you mean. lol

To be frank... I don't rightly care what he puts in his body...

wagonhed
05-10-2010, 07:01 PM
Eh, I am going to channel Thorn and tell them to kiss my ass.

They can revote all they want. Cushing won the award, and that is what people will remember. At least that is what I will remember.

Yep. Who the **** cares what those asshats say after the fact? Cushing got 39 votes, that's all there is to it. Give the award to Jay Glazer for all I care, we all know who the best rookie was last year.

Thorn
05-10-2010, 07:24 PM
I never thought I'd ever see the day when I was avoiding the Texans Talk forum and spending my time in the No Sports Talk Allowed forums instead. The over reaction, not just from some of the people on this board, but the folks re voting for the DROY are just ****ing absurd.

Errant Hothy
05-10-2010, 07:30 PM
I don't know if it's been posted or not, but Clayton is reporting that Cushing is saying that it was a positive text for non-steriod substance.

The Texans found out on Friday that linebacker Brian Cushing will miss the first four games after a positive test for what he calls a non-steroid substance.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5176773

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 10:47 PM
The chronology of suspension events is further elucidated.......but not really explained as to why so delayed at every stage. Sounds somewhat screwy.

Last September, Cushing, who was the Texans’ first-round draft pick, taken 15th over all, provided the urine sample that tested positive. In February, after he had played all 16 games and made the Pro Bowl, he was permitted to file an appeal. Under the decision last week, he is suspended without pay.

A spokesman for the N.F.L., Brian McCarthy, said he could not comment on the length of time between the positive test result and the announcement of Cushing’s suspension.

“I would refer you to the policy on NFLmedia.com, which explains the testing and appeals process,” he said. “As you can see, due process can be lengthy.”

Gabe Feldman, the head of the sports law department at Tulane University, said the policy was not designed to take so long.

“It’s an intentionally deliberate process that gives players many layers of protection, but it’s also designed to get players who violated the program off the field,” Feldman said. “Something must have broken down. It could have been as simple as the lab took too long.”

LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/11/sports/football/11drugs.html)

thunderkyss
05-10-2010, 10:48 PM
That's ridiculous!

As Mark Schlereth pointed out, are they going to re-vote on Peppers DPOY because he tested positive and received a 4 game suspension also?

Having said that. Frankly, I'm glad he has extra motivation.

I think it's stupid too. He tested positive before the season even started, so he was on the "watch-list" all through the year... he should have competed clean.

Now they go and do this, and then he won't be eligible for the Pro-Bowl in 2010...

just stupid.

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2010, 11:03 PM
I think it's stupid too. He tested positive before the season even started, so he was on the "watch-list" all through the year... he should have competed clean.

Now they go and do this, and then he won't be eligible for the Pro-Bowl in 2010...

just stupid.

We aren't really sure of that, in that the the regular season started the 2nd week of September.

thunderkyss
05-10-2010, 11:10 PM
We aren't really sure of that, in that the the regular season started the 2nd week of September.

Even then, the bulk of his work, his accomplishments would have came during the "extra scrutiny" period.

Ole Miss Texan
05-10-2010, 11:56 PM
Even then, the bulk of his work, his accomplishments would have came during the "extra scrutiny" period.

It appears at least 13 games were played after the test. That is if the test was performed in September 2009.

mexican_texan
05-11-2010, 01:38 AM
I'm getting sick of this. Where was this self-righteous backlash when Shawne Merriman tested positive?

barrett
05-11-2010, 02:05 AM
hmmm so it would appear that more information is coming to light at time passes. My knee's are steady.

Again, for the record, for the umpteenth time, I'm not defending Cushing or suggesting that he's innocent of wrong doing. I'm simply saying don't be so quick to form your own "truths" when such little info is out there.

TC reported on twitter (www.twitter.com) today that StephStradley

Per @MJ4Sports , #Texans warned Cushing & S&C coach about risk of supplement causing positive test & they ignored it: http://bit.ly/aHOOMV

... and so on...

barrett
05-11-2010, 02:32 AM
No, I am not accusing you of anything.

You were talking about us needing to wait until more information is available.

I was saying that people asked for the same patience during the Steve McNair murder-suicide, Ben's adventures, Tiger's wreck over Thanksgiving, etc. We all want to believe the people are innocent, but it seems where there's smoke there's eventually going to be some fire.

Cushing is using the protections afforded him (we'll not see the NFL release what substance he tested positive for) and stating that it wasn't steroids. And we're being asked to be patient and listen to what will be said.

What will be said is a bunch of dookie, dressed up in fine clothes. It's still dookie. He's missing four games AND the media and fans will forever have a punchline ready when talking about the Texans. I don't think there's anything the guy can say that I can trust, unless the NFL were to somehow release their information. Which they won't.


That a bold statement (literally ;)) and I doubt that's true but I understand your intent.
I agree with you on many points and if he is truly innocent then I expect him to come forward with facts. But I can expect that not to happen. Even if he is innocent, I can see his defense team advising him to lay low and let it pass. Either way, I think statements like but it seems where there's smoke there's eventually going to be some fire. are exactly what I'm trying to point out. 900 times out of 1000 that could be the case but that doesn't make the other 100 less valid. It's understandable in these times of immediate "information" that people jump to conclusions but they are not based in fact and that is my only point.

I think GP has a point.

You have a guy who changed shape dramatically over a very short period of time.
A guy with steroid allegations following him since well before the draft.
A guy who comes in and dominated from day 1, playing through injuries and not practicing.
A guy who shows all the telltale side effects of steroids (specific injuries, etc)

And now you have a guy with a positive test and a 4 game suspension. His appeal was rejected outright.


It doesn't really matter what he tells us at this point. Its one thing to believe that our LS wasn't taking steroids. Look at him. But in the court of public opinion (this includes most fans and commentators) when it smells like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks.... well, its probably a duck.

And realistically, it doesn't matter. He's gone for 4 games. A 4 game stretch when we REALLY needed him. Thats bad enough right there

"probably" don't make it a freakin' Anatidae.

I made a comment last year on a shirtless picture of him someone had posted. I pointed out the swollen nipples that are normally caused by steroid use. So, I knew in the back of my mind he used in College. However, I didn't know he was dumb enough to continue in the NFL.

If it was truly roids or another type of PED, what are the odds we get the same player when he returns in 2010? Well, from my experience the odds are most definitely NOT in his favor.

In the end, will we see a roid-less Cushing continue to beast on the field? Or did we draft the next Brian Bosworth? Time will tell, but considering the horrible feeling I've had all weekend I'd have to bet on the latter

really? that's how you knew? WOW. impressive doctor paper thin case. gimmie a break people. FACTS PLEASE!!!

respectfully request moderators remove the steroid label.

thank you

thank you!



To be frank... I don't rightly care what he puts in his body...

Nitro,

I really think you should care. Cheating takes away from the game and it really should matter to you that all players are given the same chance. Otherwise the game is much less enjoyable. What if they stopped playing the games and just used simulators?

ObsiWan
05-11-2010, 03:51 AM
I actually know several biochemistry, biology and nutrition experts who work for NASA and its contractors. They all work specifically with the astronauts or to develop food and other physiological processes for life in space (exercise, diets, etc). Those people probably could work in an industry like that, but I don't think they are the one's being laid off in the near future.

As do I. And, like you, I doubt they will be the ones to lose their jobs due to Dubya's decision to cut shuttle.

But we digress....

JB
05-11-2010, 09:20 AM
Here it is: Brian Cushing tested positive for slightly elevated levels of hCG (a non-steroidal substance produced naturally by the body).

More hCG: it is in seminal fluid and slightly elevated levels can be discovered in the event that a test occurs soon after ejaculation.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Created naturally by the body? How can that be on the banned list?

CnD can you help us out here?

Kaiser Toro
05-11-2010, 09:28 AM
Here it is: Brian Cushing tested positive for slightly elevated levels of hCG (a non-steroidal substance produced naturally by the body).

More hCG: it is in seminal fluid and slightly elevated levels can be discovered in the event that a test occurs soon after ejaculation.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Created naturally by the body? How can that be on the banned list?

CnD can you help us out here?

Is he pregnant?

HoustonFrog
05-11-2010, 09:31 AM
I'm getting sick of this. Where was this self-righteous backlash when Shawne Merriman tested positive?

Why does everyone keep using this phrase?It's not self-righteous to basically speak the truth about the NFL policy and to hold a guy accountable for screwing his team. Do you know that there is a hotline guys can call to ask is a supplement is legal. That simple. Merriman got ripped pretty good and continues to get ripped because he is a shell.

Kimmy
05-11-2010, 09:33 AM
I was watching Mike & Mike in the Morning and they said that HCG can be used to rebuild testosterone after coming off a cycle of PEDs. Not sure how much weight this carries, but it is interesting.

HOU-TEX
05-11-2010, 09:34 AM
Here it is: Brian Cushing tested positive for slightly elevated levels of hCG (a non-steroidal substance produced naturally by the body).

More hCG: it is in seminal fluid and slightly elevated levels can be discovered in the event that a test occurs soon after ejaculation.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Created naturally by the body? How can that be on the banned list?

CnD can you help us out here?

Flip side RT @mortreport: hCG can be produced naturally; however it is also on banned lists 'cause it is known agent during steroid cycling.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Kaiser Toro
05-11-2010, 09:35 AM
http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Schefter and Mort are obviously not true Texans fans

LonerATO
05-11-2010, 09:35 AM
Adam_Schefter
Here it is: Brian Cushing tested positive for slightly elevated levels of hCG (a non-steroidal substance produced naturally by the body).
23 minutes ago via UberTwitter

Adam_Schefter
More hCG: it is in seminal fluid and slightly elevated levels can be discovered in the event that a test occurs soon after ejaculation.

Adam_Schefter
Flip side RT @mortreport: hCG can be produced naturally; however it is also on banned lists 'cause it is known agent during steroid cycling.

About Cush and the substance

Kimmy
05-11-2010, 09:36 AM
Anabolic steroid adjunct


In the world of performance enhancing drugs, hCG is increasingly used in combination with various anabolic androgenic steroid (AAS) cycles. As a result, hCG is included in some sports' illegal drug lists.

When AAS are put into a male body, the body's natural negative-feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis (HPGA). This causes testicular atrophy, among other things. hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as normal testosterone production.

High levels of AASs, that mimic the body's natural testosterone, trigger the hypothalamus to shut down its production of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Without GnRH, the pituitary gland stops releasing luteinizing hormone (LH). LH normally travels from the pituitary via the blood stream to the testes, where it triggers the production and release of testosterone. Without LH, the testes shut down their production of testosterone. In males, hCG helps restore and maintain testosterone production in the testes by mimicking LH and triggering the production and release of testosterone.

If hCG is used for too long and in too high a dose, the resulting rise in natural testosterone will eventually inhibit its own production via negative feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary gland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chorionic_gonadotropin

BIG TORO
05-11-2010, 09:44 AM
http://thm-a02.yimg.com/nimage/dbe1c10799099272

Leave Cushing alone!huuuuuuhhhhhh you bastards!

Kaiser Toro
05-11-2010, 09:48 AM
http://thm-a02.yimg.com/nimage/dbe1c10799099272

Leave Cushing alone!huuuuuuhhhhhh you bastards!

Well done, perhaps the Cushing fan boys are taking the same regimen as he. :kitten:

Grid
05-11-2010, 09:50 AM
Adam_Schefter
More hCG: it is in seminal fluid and slightly elevated levels can be discovered in the event that a test occurs soon after ejaculation.


:facepalm:

GP
05-11-2010, 09:55 AM
Anabolic steroid adjunct

In the world of performance enhancing drugs, hCG is increasingly used in combination with various anabolic androgenic steroid (AAS) cycles. As a result, hCG is included in some sports' illegal drug lists.

When AAS are put into a male body, the body's natural negative-feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis (HPGA). This causes testicular atrophy, among other things. hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as normal testosterone production.

High levels of AASs, that mimic the body's natural testosterone, trigger the hypothalamus to shut down its production of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Without GnRH, the pituitary gland stops releasing luteinizing hormone (LH). LH normally travels from the pituitary via the blood stream to the testes, where it triggers the production and release of testosterone. Without LH, the testes shut down their production of testosterone. In males, hCG helps restore and maintain testosterone production in the testes by mimicking LH and triggering the production and release of testosterone.

If hCG is used for too long and in too high a dose, the resulting rise in natural testosterone will eventually inhibit its own production via negative feedback on the hypothalamus and pituitary gland.

Adam_Schefter
Here it is: Brian Cushing tested positive for slightly elevated levels of hCG (a non-steroidal substance produced naturally by the body).
23 minutes ago via UberTwitter

Adam_Schefter
More hCG: it is in seminal fluid and slightly elevated levels can be discovered in the event that a test occurs soon after ejaculation.

Adam_Schefter
Flip side RT @mortreport: hCG can be produced naturally; however it is also on banned lists 'cause it is known agent during steroid cycling.

blogkimmy + adam_schefter = non-steroidal substance taken by Cushing which compensates for steroidal side-effects.

This wasn't a controversial new supplement that is iffy.

This WAS a product associated with compensating for the after-effects of steroidal use.

And exactly "how" is it that the there were people inside the Texans organization who warned of Cushing using this substance, when this substance is known to be associated with steroidal use? I was expecting that the substance was going to be well-distanced from steroids, but it wasn't.

The plot thickens, because people inside the Texans organization were aware of this. Unless they lied to the higher-ups and said it was y-substance instead of x-substance. ?

EDIT: I guess there could be deniability here. "Well, I was told Brian was on hooey-berry protein shakes. Obviously, he was taking hCG on the side without me knowing it." I would think that Brian would not risk the inclusion of other persons into the risky endeavor of hCG. I bet he's been controlling the information as much as possible, and/or Texans officials have been skirting the issue and letting the chips fall where they may. Just my hunch.

Kaiser Toro
05-11-2010, 09:56 AM
:facepalm:

"Not a Cushing fan anymore huh? Well when all this is cleared up im sure you will be much more comfortable admitting to being a Texans fan."

Kimmy
05-11-2010, 10:03 AM
It just really sucks ... we've (I've) wanted 'National Media' for the Texans for a lonnnng time, this is not what I had in mind.

It will get a lot of people watching, though. Especially game 5.

I just don't want any part of suspicion or cheating. I don't care how good they are, people will ALWAYS assume there should be an asterisk next to any records, etc.

I love this team and will continue to support them.

Just curious though, will Cushing have security around him for All Access? Or will he be absent?

Kaiser Toro
05-11-2010, 10:04 AM
It appears that this is what Manny Ramirez was suspended for.

However, testing by Major League Baseball showed that Ramirez had testosterone in his body that was not natural and came from an artificial source, two people with knowledge of the case told ESPN's Mark Fainaru-Wada and T.J. Quinn. The sources said that in addition to the artificial testosterone, Ramirez was identified as using the female fertility drug human chorionic gonadotropin, or hCG.

The sources said Ramirez was suspended for using hCG because baseball had documentation to prove his use of the drug. A Major League Baseball source said Ramirez's representatives indicated they would fight a suspension for using artificial testosterone.

Ramirez, in a statement issued by the players' union, said: "Recently, I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me.

Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I've taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons. I want to apologize to Mr. McCourt, Mrs. McCourt, Mr. Torre, my teammates, the Dodger organization, and to the Dodger fans. LA is a special place to me and I know everybody is disappointed. So am I. I'm sorry about this whole situation.

"Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I've taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907

HOU-TEX
05-11-2010, 10:07 AM
really? that's how you knew? WOW. impressive doctor paper thin case. gimmie a break people. FACTS PLEASE!!!


Either way, I'm still going to support Cushing and look forward to watching how he's able to rebound from all this.

GP
05-11-2010, 10:09 AM
I am noticing a pattern here:

1. "I took a non-steroidal substance." (it wasn't STEROIDS!!!! LOL)

2. "I have passed x-amount of tests." (i can beat the test, by the way)

Not sure if Cushing will use 3. "I saw a doctor and he recommended it to me," and 4. "It was a mistake and I regret it."

Grid
05-11-2010, 10:13 AM
"Not a Cushing fan anymore huh? Well when all this is cleared up im sure you will be much more comfortable admitting to being a Texans fan."

Im sorry.. I didnt know that you would get so butt hurt over that statement that your sense of humor would shrivel away.

GP
05-11-2010, 10:21 AM
Im sorry.. I didnt know that you would get so butt hurt over that statement that your sense of humor would shrivel away.

:megafacepalm:

Why are you so angry?

There are all types of emotions and concerns and opinions regarding this situation. I think 100% of this board agrees that we want Cushing back on the field and to remain our smack-daddy at the SAM for years to come.

People are split on what they feel right now, regarding the enormous fallout and mess that's been created by Cushing and Cushing alone. It's part of being a fan (someone who roots for a team) and it's different for everyone.

We need to all listen to The Beatles "Let it be..." (and I don't even like The Beatles, btw)

CloakNNNdagger
05-11-2010, 10:28 AM
Here it is: Brian Cushing tested positive for slightly elevated levels of hCG (a non-steroidal substance produced naturally by the body).

More hCG: it is in seminal fluid and slightly elevated levels can be discovered in the event that a test occurs soon after ejaculation.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Created naturally by the body? How can that be on the banned list?

CnD can you help us out here?

HCG in routine semen testing is essentially so low that it is undetectable. When detected by ultra sophisticated research tools, and certainly in the case of routine testing, there is cause for concern regarding the possible presence of conditions such as testicular or prostate cancer........if there is no “external” substance exposure to explain it.

Remember these are not isolated direct semen tests........they are urine tests. Furthermore, if urine samples are collected, even immediately following ejaculation, the semen contents within the urine would be so extremely diluted that any possibility of detection would be less than minuscule.

Therefore, with the test being run times 2 (test “A” and test “B” as per the NFL Policy for positive results), and with both being positive............I’ll leave conclusions up to you all.

The Pencil Neck
05-11-2010, 10:29 AM
Here it is: Brian Cushing tested positive for slightly elevated levels of hCG (a non-steroidal substance produced naturally by the body).

More hCG: it is in seminal fluid and slightly elevated levels can be discovered in the event that a test occurs soon after ejaculation.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Created naturally by the body? How can that be on the banned list?

CnD can you help us out here?

hCG is commonly used by guys who use steroids when they're cycling off of steroids. It re-stimulates their natural testosterone production.

Remember, testosterone is naturally created by the body, too. It's about having unnaturally high levels (or incorrect ratios) of it that's the issue.

JB
05-11-2010, 10:31 AM
HCG in routine semen testing is essentially so low that it is undetectable. When detected by ultra sophisticated research tools, and certainly in the case of routine testing, there is cause for concern regarding the possible presence of conditions such as testicular or prostate cancer........if there is no “external” substance exposure to explain it.

Remember these are not isolated direct semen tests........they are urine tests. Furthermore, if urine samples are collected, even immediately following ejaculation, the semen contents within the urine would be so extremely diluted that any possibility of detection would be less than minuscule.

Therefore, with the test being run times 2 (test “A” and test “B” as per the NFL Policy for positive results), and with both being positive............I’ll leave conclusions up to you all.


Would there be any other reason to take this other than as part of a steroid cycle?

GuerillaBlack
05-11-2010, 10:32 AM
:megafacepalm:

Why are you so angry?

There are all types of emotions and concerns and opinions regarding this situation. I think 100% of this board agrees that we want Cushing back on the field and to remain our smack-daddy at the SAM for years to come.

People are split on what they feel right now, regarding the enormous fallout and mess that's been created by Cushing and Cushing alone. It's part of being a fan (someone who roots for a team) and it's different for everyone.

We need to all listen to The Beatles "Let it be..." (and I don't even like The Beatles, btw)

You didn't see the response he got from posting a facepalm picture? It's not one-sided here.

CloakNNNdagger
05-11-2010, 10:38 AM
Would there be any other reason to take this other than as part of a steroid cycle?

Only for typical medical conditions related to naturally low testosterone conditions.

Shaft75
05-11-2010, 10:40 AM
Only for typical medical conditions related to naturally low testosterone conditions.

:facepalm:

infantrycak
05-11-2010, 10:41 AM
Everybody hears PED and assumes steroids. There are all sorts of things that can trigger a positive including scenarios where no compound is found at all. For example Floyd Landis lost his Tour de France title over a ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. That ratio was designed to catch people injecting testosterone. Problem? - his testosterone was normal but his epitestosterone was abnormally low throwing the ratio off. Nobody in the cycling authorities could explain how that would ever be performance enhancing but they enforced the ratio anyway.

Edit - so it turns out he did get popped for a natural substance level rather than a foreign substance.

Tailgate
05-11-2010, 10:44 AM
How long do cycles last? Lets say he was masking it... but was not taking them by the time the season came around. Would the cycle he possibly tried to cover up enhance his performance that much all season? My concern is his performance moving forward clean.