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LORK 88
05-02-2010, 03:17 PM
TEXANS DRAFT GRADES


KAREEM JACKSON, CB, ALABAMA
I know a lot of people were hoping for the never bashful Kyle Wilson, but Iím glad we took Jackson. The thing with Jackson is he was a 3 year starter for a nation champion and has had a great career. He didnít get the attention as some of the others because his INT numbers werenít better, but opposing QBs completed fewer than 50% of their passes against him. The thing with Jackson is heís a very intelligent CB and is a deceptive athlete (4.40 speed). He played in Sabanís pro style offense and faced some of the best teams in the SEC. Heís also a very balanced CB. You canít say heís a cover corner or physical corner because that would imply he canít do the other. He didnít have insane numbers while at Alabama, but he was consistent and his INTs were from smart plays and not dumb luck. Still, Jackson needs to be prepared as heís going to face #1 WRs all season long and will have to learn on the fly. Itís also cause for concern that he didnít cause very many turnovers, all though his play was consistent all season. Overall, I like the pick. Heís a consistent performer who we can count on day 1 and who will work hard. Heís got a tough job in front of him, but he has the tools to be successful. Thereís no room for error as we desperately needed a CB and had our choice of the 3 late round 1 CBs.

YEAR 1 IMPACT: Jackson is the starter at RCB, no questions asked. Unless he has a complete meltdown in training camp, heís going to be starting. It will be a true baptism by fire, but itís good that we have Reeves who can start for Quin or Jackson if either struggle or get injured. Weíre depending on him a lot so hopefully he can handle it.

GRADE: 87 OVERALL (95 NEED, 83 BPA)


BEN TATE, RB, AUBURN
I absolutely love this pick, but Iíve been talking about Tate since the regular season and before the combine. I actually got to see him play in person the 2006 Cotton Bowl and thought he looked better than Irons. What I love about Tate is he is a great all around RB who fits what we need. From a measurables standpoint, heís got the size to be a 20 carry RB, but has deceptive speed. If he gets into the open, he will run away from defenders which is scary when you realize heís 220 plus. He tested through the roof at the combine to prove this and his name popped up several times as a top performer. As far as his running style, heís a tough no-nonsense runner who gets north and south. Heís always getting extra yards and loves punishing weak defenders. Rarely will you find him spending too much time dancing around like Slaton found himself doing too much last season. Heís the definition of a ďone cut and goĒ runner. The main causes for concern are that Tate does need to work on protecting the ball and can tend to be impatient. Other than that, Tate should come in and have an instant impact letting Slaton be more of a change of pace/dynamic RB that we initially thought he would be. I know some people would have preferred Gerhart who was a college warrior, but the fact we were able to get a RB who will be just as effective and is probably a better fit for the ZBS is fine with me. Great pick, Tateís my favorite new Texan hands down.

YEAR 1 IMPACT: Tate will steal some serious time from Slaton. I can see Kubiak splitting time between the two and going with the hot hand, or just using Tate as the main RB with Slaton spelling him (most likely option 2). Either way, Tate is going to see the field a lot in 2010 and I wouldnít be surprised to see him eclipse 1,000 yards.

GRADE: 93 OVERALL (95 NEED, 86 BPA)


EARL MITCHELL, DT, ARIZONA
Iím a little hesitant on how to grade this pick. On one hand, Mitchell played great with limited experience at DT, had a great combine, and is an incredibly hard worker. However, was he worth our 3rd round pick? Honestly, Iíll say yes. When looking at the other DTs taken after him, Corey Peters out of Kentucky is the only other DT taken round 3 (he would have been a much more questionable pick). Other than Peters, Adkins and Woods were the only other DTs taken relatively close, and they were taken least 30 picks after Mitchell. Earl Mitchell kind of reminds me of the Charles Spencer pick in 2006. Heís a player who hasnít always played DT and has limited experience, but tested well and could use his raw abilities to help out right away much like Spencer. Much like Spencer, its unseen exactly how heíll fit on our team and specifically where heíll play. We all want a NT, but Mitchell screams 3 tech with us. It does scare me that our DEs are just as big as our DTs. On the plus side, Mitchell is quick for a DT and a true penetrating DT. Not only that, he has a non-stop motor and is a fierce competitor. On the downside are the obvious; size, strength, and this sounds a lot like what we were saying about Okoye. Overall, Iím fine with the pick but leery that we added yet another 3 tech DT. However, when looking at our DT rotation, Okoye is the only player who has any potential so adding any DT with potential is a help.

YEAR 1 IMPACT: Mitchellís impact is hard to predict. He could end up starting or he could also end up the 4th DT on the roster. Immediately, I think he sees time on passing situations on the inside with Smith. If that goes well, I see him getting more opportunities on earlier downs to prove himself. However, I see him in Okoyeís spot more than at NT.

GRADE: 83 OVERALL (90 NEED, 78 BPA)


DARRYL SHARPTON, LB, THE U
I was a little hesitant at first, but I like the pick overall. To be honest, we have room for him on our roster and he will round out our 6 LBs. I expect him to backup Demeco unless he proves to be a solid Will LB and threatens Diles. Currently, our 6th LB is journeyman and former SS Darnell Bing. Something that should be noted is that both Xavier Adibi and Zac Diles have missed time due to injury in the past as did Cushing in college. This gives us more depth and security at one of our top positions. As far as a player, Sharpton is best described as aggressive and fierce. Heís a sideline to sideline player with a non-stop motor typical of most linebackers from The U. He loves mixing it up and despite his size, is stout in run defense. Heís decent in pass defense, but his size gets the best of him and he doesnít look natural. He does tend to get too aggressive and this has caused him to fall victim to play actions and mis-directions (something Tennessee loves to use with VY). Overall, I like that we added another LB, but think it could have been done later on as this pick could have been better used.

YEAR 1 IMPACT: Sharpton might get a chance to start at weak side over Diles, but I highly doubt it. Sharpton will back up DeMeco and play a key role on special teams unless injuries plague or LB group. If Diles gets hurt, all bets are off on who steps in as Iím not 100% they trust Adibi (who has injury concerns himself).

GRADE: 77 OVERALL (80 NEED, 75 BPA)


GARRETT GRAHAM, TE, WISCONSIN
I just want to be perfectly clear on this. Garrett Graham is a solid TE and went where he was supposed to go. He was projected to go in between the 4th and 5th round which is fair value. The reason I have this grade so low is solely because we have zero need for a TE. If it wasnít for TE being one of the few positions we have little to no need at, Iíd have this pick graded at around an 85. Graham isnít the biggest or fastest TE out there, but heís experienced, gives effort, and plays smart. As a blocker, heíll give tons of effort and has no problem staying in line, but he just doesnít have the size or strength to be a great blocker. Then again, the ZBS is about walling off defenders so it shouldnít be a huge issue. As a receiver, he may not be the fastest, but he runs good routes and understands shielding defenders from passes. He isnít anything special in the open field, but is able to maximize yards after catch by being a smart decision maker. Overall, Graham is a solid player who just isnít a big need which is the only reason heís rated so low. If Dreessen is hurt and Casey struggles, then heís a viable #2 and has potential. However, until we see the long term effect of this pick, thereís no choice but to think this pick could have been used best in other ways.

YEAR 1 IMPACT: The best we can hope for this season is Graham as our #2 TE. At worst, heís practice squad or falls behind Casey and Dreessen. At best, he pushes Daniels for time and creates trade value. Graham is a pick who shouldnít expect much barring injury and his true value wonít be seen until years down the road outside of special teams.

GRADE: 76 OVERALL (65 NEED, 86 BPA)


SHERRICK MCMANIS, DB, NORTHWESTERN
In all honesty, I didnít know too much about McManis just like everyone else. I actually saw him play in 2008 in the Alamo Bowl against Missouri and while no Missouri players went off that game, Chase Daniels played terribly. Iím still unsure if itís a good thing or bad thing that he was so unnoticeable during that game. I know for a fact it doesnít bode well for McManis that several of us thought he was going to move to safety after reading up on him. The thing with McManis is heís talented and a smart player on the field, but the question is does he have the athleticism to make it. Heís technically sound and understands the position well, but you have to question how much he can offer at the next level. He wasnít able to do anything this offseason because of injury so heís a bit of a wild card as well. Heís the player that you want to like because heís a hard worker and a leader, but in the NFL you have to question if he can make it. Overall, this is the one pick I like the least. Heís talented, but I think Kubiak and Smith reached on him because of his high character and leadership qualities. Hopefully he gets a shot at FS because he could have more of an impact in that regard.

YEAR 1 IMPACT: To be honest, itís unseen if he even makes the final 53 man roster. There are already 5 CBs on the roster with experience and thatís not including Kareem Jackson. Heís either got to be out Molden and Bennett, or hope that we keep 6 CBs on the roster. Otherwise, heíll end up on the practice squad year 1.

GRADE: 72 OVERALL (69 BPA, 75 NEED)


SHELLEY SMITH, OG, COLORADO ST
I couldnít help but laugh when I heard this pick. Not because itís a horrible pick, but more so because so many of us saw this one coming because of Kubiakís affinity for Colorado State players (now tied with Miami for most players from one college on the team). In fact, more people predicted this pick than Kareem Jackson. The fact is though that Kubiak knows the Colorado State system and he knows what weíre getting in Smith; it was a solid pick despite how obvious it was. Smith is a solid interior lineman who fits the zone blocking scheme as is experienced from him time at Colorado State. Heís got great athleticism and can get to the second level with ease. Heís actually a pretty fierce competitor too and has a solid mean streak. As far as weaknesses, Smith needs to be stronger at the point of attack like many zone blocking prospects. I also question what he adds that we donít already have. Overall, heís solid depth with a chance to earn playing time years down the road.

YEAR 1 IMPACT: I see little to no impact here unless major injuries happen again like 2009. Shelley actually has an uphill battle to make the roster and prove that we want to keep 5 OGs on the roster (unless Brisiel is still hurt). I donít see him stealing time and wouldnít be surprised if he didnít see any action in 2010.

GRADE: 85 OVERALL (85 NEED, 85 BPA)

LORK 88
05-02-2010, 03:18 PM
TRINDON HOLLIDAY, RET, LSU
As soon as I heard this pick, I couldn’t help but think of little JJ Moses who was Houston’s returner in the beginning of the franchise. Unlike Moses though, Holliday is a speed demon to put it softly. Not many people let alone football players can say they won the NCAA Indoor 100m dash by running it in 9.991 seconds. It’s even more impressive and shows how much true speed he has when he’s got to take 2 strides for every 1 someone over 6’ has to take. His strengths and weaknesses are incredibly obvious. He’s got speed and quickness for days, and he knows how to make people miss. The downside is he’s tiny and is exclusively restricted to return duties. Holliday’s impact and role is going to be the most direct and simple of all our draft picks; he’s going to return kicks and challenge Andre Davis. He’ll get every opportunity to win the punt and kick return duties and be a Devin Hester for us. The funny thing is that Holliday’s impact is going to be the easiest to track. There’s really no middle ground on this pick and that’s why I like it. He either wins the job outright and we release Davis or he doesn’t and ends up on the practice squad.

YEAR 1 IMPACT: This is all up to Holliday and no one else. He can either be our starting KR and PR and make an impact, or he can flop and is on the practice squad. His impact also determines if Davis is released and if Jacoby can focus more on WR.

GRADE: 83 OVERALL (81 NEED, 83 BPA)


DORIN DICKERSON, WR, PITT
Another tight end, are we crazy?! Not as much as we originally thought thankfully. Dickerson played TE his last 2 years in college (after spending time at LB, FB, and WR), but will play WR in the NFL according to Kubiak. It may not seem like a natural fit, but Dickerson is a freak athlete. He basically had the top performance at several drills, so it’s fairer to compare him across broader positions. His 4.40 40 time was the second fastest among WRs, his 43.5” vertical was the second best in the entire combine by .5”, and his 10’5” broad jump would put him second among WRs by 1”. The crazy thing is that it’s not like he’s nothing more than a workout warrior; as a senior, he had 49 catches for 529 yards and 10 TDs, second best on the team. He also was a finalist for the Mackey award (top TE in the nation). While the pieces are all there, he’ll have to put it together at WR, a position he hasn’t truly played since his first year at Pitt. He’s got to work on his route running and become a WR again. He knows how to body defenders like a TE; he just needs to learn some WR tendencies. Regardless, this is exactly what you want in a 7th round pick; a player that has all the tools that you just have to give time and experience. Dickerson and Tate are my two favorite picks hands down.

YEAR 1 IMPACT: Dorin won’t have any impact year 1 outside of special teams (which he should excel at). I think he will beat out Glenn Martinez and be the #5 or #6 WR depending on if Andre Davis gets cut or not (which is dependent on if Holliday does well in the return game).

GRADE: 95 OVERALL (72 NEED, 99 BPA)



FINAL GRADE: 84



GRADING SCALE
95 –should’ve been drafted rounds earlier; starter needed or we’re picking first overall next year
85 – in range, solid value; potential starter wanted but not necessary, could be upgrade
75 – slight reach, a few picks too high; depth needed but not a starter
65 – could of got them rounds later; little to no need, already have depth
55 – what were they thinking?!?
***overall grade not an average of BPA and need***

JB
05-02-2010, 03:42 PM
Great read Lork. Thanks for the write up.

wagonhed
05-02-2010, 04:11 PM
Great job. Probably the best readup I've seen of this draft so far.

My only complaint is I think your outlook is just a little bit rosy on the "need" grades for Sharpton, Smith, and Holliday.

If Smith was a C I would totally agree with the 85, but I might give him a 70 as a G. Sharpton fills a definite depth need but imo depth needs make a little more sense in the 5th-6th. With Holliday, I know he could be a "starter", but a return specialist that doesn't also play CB or RB doesn't seem like a "real" starter to me.

I'm nitpicking, ignore me. Excellent work dude. Thanks.

Line_Producer
05-02-2010, 07:07 PM
Lork, as usual, I love reading your posts. Awesome right up.


If Smith was a C I would totally agree with the 85, but I might give him a 70 as a G.

I disagree with this being a rosy assessment. With Pitts being unsure, our starter being Studdard, and the RG position a toss up, I say that Smith is a great pick.

Where do y'all think that Wade is going to fit in?

wagonhed
05-02-2010, 07:58 PM
G's on our roster:

Briesel
Smith, W
White
Studdard
Caldwell
Smith, S

C's on our roster:

Myers
White


*as far as I remember, at least

LikeMike
05-02-2010, 08:07 PM
Ainīt Caldwell and Smith potential Cs, Caldwell even being drafted as one...

thunderkyss
05-02-2010, 08:19 PM
With Pitts being unsure...

What's the uncertainty about Pitts?

He's gone.

eriadoc
05-02-2010, 08:41 PM
One additional upside to the Holliday pick:

At his size, each time he returns a kick, he may very well be literally running for his life. That's motivation right there!

bah007
05-02-2010, 09:33 PM
I really think Garrett Graham is the next Jason Witten. I've seen that potential in him since his sophomore year.

Tate is my favorite pick. I've said all along that he and Mathews fit our system perfectly. Graham is easily my second favorite pick. He would be my favorite if there was more of a need at that position.

I have the feeling that our TEs will be Daniels, Graham, and Dreesen. I see Casey fitting more as a FB/H Back. Hill may make the roster this year, but I don't think he will be here long term.

thunderkyss
05-02-2010, 09:47 PM
I really think Garrett Graham is the next Jason Witten. I've seen that potential in him since his sophomore year.


What are his measurables again? Whitten is a big dude.

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2010, 09:49 PM
I really think Garrett Graham is the next Jason Witten. I've seen that potential in him since his sophomore year.

Tate is my favorite pick. I've said all along that he and Mathews fit our system perfectly. Graham is easily my second favorite pick. He would be my favorite if there was more of a need at that position.

I have the feeling that our TEs will be Daniels, Graham, and Dreesen. I see Casey fitting more as a FB/H Back. Hill may make the roster this year, but I don't think he will be here long term.

With Graham you have a back up plan if OD's contract demands become to much .

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2010, 09:50 PM
What are his measurables again? Whitten is a big dude.

He's about the same as OD ( 6'3 246 ) , while Whitten is 6'5 255 I think .

bah007
05-02-2010, 10:03 PM
What are his measurables again? Whitten is a big dude.

Not really talking about measurables. I think Witten is considerably bigger. I'm talking more about style of play.

Graham can flat out block just like Witten can. He won't run you over but he will keep you out of the play. And just like Witten, his biggest value in the passing game is his ability to always find the holes. It doesn't seem like that much of a reach to say that he was somewhat open on every single passing play I saw Wisconsin run during the last three years. And I saw a lot of Wisconsin games since they always show the damn Big Ten games down here. He is a very deceptive athlete. He is faster in the open field than you would think he would be and he has great hands.

HJam72
05-02-2010, 10:50 PM
What's the uncertainty about Pitts?

He's gone.

2 years from now, people will watch the first few plays of games and ask, "Where's Pitts? Is he hurt?" :kitten:

beerlover
05-03-2010, 11:57 AM
I like your format & breakdown. using your guidelines I might tend to grade it just a little more generous. take McManis for example; lowest grade (72) big CB almost 2" taller than Haden, both 4.5 speed, three year starter, one more interception for his career (9) than Haden & equally good character, thats pretty extreme value for a team needing to address it's secondary in the 5th rd. also the pick of Graham may mean Hill has dissapointed to the point they may move on, while Casey needs to continue to compete to earn his roster spot. I too remember the old days & TE was under valued to the point the Texans really never had a TE until Owen & Kubiak came onto the scene. Now the Texans have enough talent @ the TE position to overcome injurys & holdouts, not to mention set in future drafts.

I would add a couple more points for McManis & Graham giving the Texans a culminative grade of 88 not trying to nit-pick cause you did an excellent job :goodpost:

badboy
05-03-2010, 12:46 PM
I like your format & breakdown. using your guidelines I might tend to grade it just a little more generous. take McManis for example; lowest grade (72) big CB almost 2" taller than Haden, both 4.5 speed, three year starter, one more interception for his career (9) than Haden & equally good character, thats pretty extreme value for a team needing to address it's secondary in the 5th rd. also the pick of Graham may mean Hill has dissapointed to the point they may move on, while Casey needs to continue to compete to earn his roster spot. I too remember the old days & TE was under valued to the point the Texans really never had a TE until Owen & Kubiak came onto the scene. Now the Texans have enough talent @ the TE position to overcome injurys & holdouts, not to mention set in future drafts.

I would add a couple more points for McManis & Graham giving the Texans a culminative grade of 88 not trying to nit-pick cause you did an excellent job :goodpost:What do you think about his grade of Shelley Smith?

beerlover
05-03-2010, 01:15 PM
What do you think about his grade of Shelley Smith?

85 is a pretty solid score, well justified about the only thing he failed to mention is the fact Shelley can also play Center. If Caldwell remains their RG, which I think he will, Smith best shot is to compete aganst Myers in camp. It would be a surprise but not a shock if at some point he actually develops into the Texans long term center. if this happens the Texans blew-up this grade (positive) off the chart.

badboy
05-03-2010, 01:44 PM
85 is a pretty solid score, well justified about the only thing he failed to mention is the fact Shelley can also play Center. If Caldwell remains their RG, which I think he will, Smith best shot is to compete aganst Myers in camp. It would be a surprise but not a shock if at some point he actually develops into the Texans long term center. if this happens the Texans blew-up this grade (positive) off the chart.Fair enough, I have FA Smith competing with Studdard and Myers and Briesel and Caldwell Fighting for RG. I think Shelley is competing with Chris White. I still have this as a wasted pick.

BigBull17
05-03-2010, 01:51 PM
Fair enough, I have FA Smith competing with Studdard and Myers and Briesel and Caldwell Fighting for RG. I think Shelley is competing with Chris White. I still have this as a wasted pick.

Why a wasted pick? We needed G/C depth, and Shelly fits the bill. The thing about pure ZB olinemen is you can get them in the later rounds cause people don't really draft the lighter quicker guys weaker at the P.O.A. CLose to BPA at a need position, I have it as solid.

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2010, 02:10 PM
Fair enough, I have FA Smith competing with Studdard and Myers and Briesel and Caldwell Fighting for RG. I think Shelley is competing with Chris White. I still have this as a wasted pick.

I can't even comprehend how you could think this is a wasted pick.

It's the 6th round. He's a perfect fit for our system and a perfect fit for what we need. I think you're confusing the fact that we've got a lot of guards with the fact that we've got a lot of good guards. This guy could push the starters for time.

This pick is only a waste if he shows up, is totally crap, and doesn't even make it onto the PS.

badboy
05-03-2010, 02:46 PM
I can't even comprehend how you could think this is a wasted pick.

It's the 6th round. He's a perfect fit for our system and a perfect fit for what we need. I think you're confusing the fact that we've got a lot of guards with the fact that we've got a lot of good guards. This guy could push the starters for time.

This pick is only a waste if he shows up, is totally crap, and doesn't even make it onto the PS.Perception of need differs from yours. If I thought he could beat out Briesel, Myers, Caldwell, Dave Smith or Studdard, I'd agree it was a good pick. I don't think he can. He might be able to beat out White.

I think Jeff Owen DT and/or Jonathan Dwyer fit the system as well and in my perception those positions are bigger needs. We will never know if those two would have been good picks. We will know if this 6th round selection beats out anyone. Since we have him, I am hoping he will.

otisbean
05-03-2010, 02:51 PM
Perception of need differs from yours. If I thought he could beat out Briesel, Myers, Caldwell, Dave Smith or Studdard, I'd agree it was a good pick. I don't think he can. He might be able to beat out White.

I think Jeff Owen DT and/or Jonathan Dwyer fit the system as well and in my perception those positions are bigger needs. We will never know if those two would have been good picks. We will know if this 6th round selection beats out anyone. Since we have him, I am hoping he will.

Does he have to beat those guys out this year to be a good pick? If he's a starter next season would that mean he's good pick? If you are going off need, I believe we were 13th against the run and 30th in rushing offense. We already drafted a RB in rd 2 and a pass rushing DT in rd 3, why take another in a later round?

badboy
05-03-2010, 03:04 PM
Does he have to beat those guys out this year to be a good pick? If he's a starter next season would that mean he's good pick? If you are going off need, I believe we were 13th against the run and 30th in rushing offense. We already drafted a RB in rd 2 and a pass rushing DT in rd 3, why take another in a later round?As the players I listed are on the roster and not all are starters, yes he does have to make the team to be a good pick.

Otisbean, look at your backups on the DTs and RBs and say you are certain our 2nd round RB and 3rd round DT solves the problems? RB alone is a situation no one understands today. Will Slaton be back and if so which one do we see rookie or sophomore? Moats is so-so as always and Foster looked great for 3 games? Tate will probably start but is what we have enough to ease your mind? Look at what we did at a similar position, cornerback. We drafted one #20 but still got another in round 5. Why is it so outlandish for me to want another RB in 6th?

otisbean
05-03-2010, 03:19 PM
As the players I listed are on the roster and not all are starters, yes he does have to make the team to be a good pick.

Otisbean, look at your backups on the DTs and RBs and say you are certain our 2nd round RB and 3rd round DT solves the problems? RB alone is a situation no one understands today. Will Slaton be back and if so which one do we see rookie or sophomore? Moats is so-so as always and Foster looked great for 3 games? Tate will probably start but is what we have enough to ease your mind? Look at what we did at a similar position, cornerback. We drafted one #20 but still got another in round 5. Why is it so outlandish for me to want another RB in 6th?

I don't think it's outlandish to want another RB. I would have been fine with another RB (not Dwyer though). I am curious to see what Jeremiah Johnson can do. i really liked him at Oregon, and was glad they picked him up. I think Foster looked pretty good at the end of the year. To me the RB position could be a major strength (if Tate looks good and Slaton looks more like his rookie year than last year) but I understand your fears. I just thought it was curious calling the OG in rd 6 a wasted pick. We need to upgrade our depth all over the place, and certainly the interior OL needed to be upgraded.

I am glad they addressed the OL. Our DTs play the run well - especially during the final 13 games)

beerlover
05-03-2010, 03:34 PM
all anyone has to do is go back to game day threads & count the number of times someone fired Chris Myers to better understand the Texans had a problem with interior line play, that this need would be addressed in the offseason :roast:

Honoring Earl 34
05-03-2010, 04:05 PM
As the players I listed are on the roster and not all are starters, yes he does have to make the team to be a good pick.

Otisbean, look at your backups on the DTs and RBs and say you are certain our 2nd round RB and 3rd round DT solves the problems? RB alone is a situation no one understands today. Will Slaton be back and if so which one do we see rookie or sophomore? Moats is so-so as always and Foster looked great for 3 games? Tate will probably start but is what we have enough to ease your mind? Look at what we did at a similar position, cornerback. We drafted one #20 but still got another in round 5. Why is it so outlandish for me to want another RB in 6th?

Dwyer can't out run our third round DT in the 10 yard split .

badboy
05-03-2010, 04:12 PM
all anyone has to do is go back to game day threads & count the number of times someone fired Chris Myers to better understand the Texans had a problem with interior line play, that this need would be addressed in the offseason :roast:What is interesting is how many swore Caldwell would start game one at center. How many games has Myers started and how many has he missed?

badboy
05-03-2010, 04:20 PM
Dwyer can't out run our third round DT in the 10 yard split .He would not have had to.

beerlover
05-03-2010, 04:28 PM
What is interesting is how many swore Caldwell would start game one at center. How many games has Myers started and how many has he missed?

well the jury is still out I suppose but Caldwell made tremendous strides @ RG towards the end of season, one reason why the Texans started running the ball better. Shelly Smith is a little smaller/quicker more suited inside @ Center for ZBS. Caldwell also has much longer arms & doesn't seem to have the strength needed to anchor like Smith from the center position. I really expect him to give Myers a fight to succeed him.

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2010, 04:39 PM
What is interesting is how many swore Caldwell would start game one at center. How many games has Myers started and how many has he missed?

I have to admit that I thought Caldwell would be the starting center by mid-season and I was hoping Caldwell would be starting day 1.

A 6th round pick of the 2005 draft, Chris Myers has started the past 48 games (the past 32 with the Texans.) I'm getting the feeling that the coaching staff likes him and what he does (regardless of video of him getting rag dolled.) Some people have said that Myers gets blown up sometimes because the guards aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. So, let's improve the guards.

And I hope Shelley Smith and Caldwell are steps in that direction. I personally don't have any hope that Wade Smith is going to do anything.

badboy
05-03-2010, 04:41 PM
well the jury is still out I suppose but Caldwell made tremendous strides @ RG towards the end of season, one reason why the Texans started running the ball better. Shelly Smith is a little smaller/quicker more suited inside @ Center for ZBS. Caldwell also has much longer arms & doesn't seem to have the strength needed to anchor like Smith from the center position. I really expect him to give Myers a fight to succeed him.So you think Caldwell's primary target is center or are you saying Smith?

badboy
05-03-2010, 04:44 PM
I have to admit that I thought Caldwell would be the starting center by mid-season and I was hoping Caldwell would be starting day 1.

A 6th round pick of the 2005 draft, Chris Myers has started the past 48 games (the past 32 with the Texans.) I'm getting the feeling that the coaching staff likes him and what he does (regardless of video of him getting rag dolled.) Some people have said that Myers gets blown up sometimes because the guards aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. So, let's improve the guards.

And I hope Shelley Smith and Caldwell are steps in that direction. I personally don't have any hope that Wade Smith is going to do anything.We are totally on same page with all you say. Studdard and Chris White don't offer much in aid to center. Myers also has the play calling down and the exchange with Schaub. I expect no change at center or RG. Smith should beat out Studdard.

beerlover
05-03-2010, 04:47 PM
So you think Caldwell's primary target is center or are you saying Smith?

Caldwell's home is RG, does not preclude him from playing another position if the need arises, which only adds value to Shelly Smith because from what I've seen & how he performed at the combine he is a better athlete & stronger than Chris Myers @ Center.

ps. we're going to have to watch saying Smith as to which one is implied. Wade Smith, aquired in free agency should battle Studdard @ LG.

The Pencil Neck
05-03-2010, 06:08 PM
Caldwell's home is RG, does not preclude him from playing another position if the need arises, which only adds value to Shelly Smith because from what I've seen & how he performed at the combine he is a better athlete & stronger than Chris Myers @ Center.

ps. we're going to have to watch saying Smith as to which one is implied. Wade Smith, aquired in free agency should battle Studdard @ LG.

So, let me get this straight, from your vantagepoint, if the new guys beat out the old guys, we'll end up with Wade Smith at LG, Shelley Smith at C, and Caldwell at RG?

I think I'm with Badboy on this. I'm expecting Shelley Smith at LG, Myers back at C, and Caldwell at RG. Although, I think Caldwell gets a shot at C.

thunderkyss
05-03-2010, 09:05 PM
Fair enough, I have FA Smith competing with Studdard and Myers and Briesel and Caldwell Fighting for RG. I think Shelley is competing with Chris White. I still have this as a wasted pick.

I bet we'll see Caldwell at Center, with Studdard & Brisiel. I don't like Studdard, but Kubiak seems to have a man crush. Shelly would probably take White's spot.

thunderkyss
05-03-2010, 09:43 PM
If you are going off need, I believe we were 13th against the run and 30th in rushing offense.

I believe we were 13th in total defense (yards allowed).

We tied for 10th in rushing yards allowed with Tennessee and Atlanta.

But, we were also the 5th least team ran against, with only 24.8 attempts per game.

We rated 16th (tied with Indy, Chicago, and Tennessee) for allowing 4.3 yards per carry.

Only seven teams allowed more runs for 20 yards than we did(14); KC(15), Denver, Giants(17), Buffalo, Detroit(18), Oakland(19), and Tampa Bay(25).

We tied for 17th for the most runs allowed over 40 yards, with 3. Buffalo Carolina, Cleveland, Denver, Jacksonville, Saints, Seahawks, & Washington were also at 17. Arizona, KC, Tennessee, and the Giants allowed 4. Detroit allowed 5, Oakland and St Louis allowed 6.

We tied for 6th, with Carolina, Greenbay, Chicago, and Washington by forcing 10 fumbles. Only San Diego (11), Oakland and Atlanta (12), Denver (13), and Jacksonville (15) forced more. .Does that sound right?

We did allow the longest run of the season, 91 yards and a touchdown.

beerlover
05-04-2010, 02:20 AM
So, let me get this straight, from your vantagepoint, if the new guys beat out the old guys, we'll end up with Wade Smith at LG, Shelley Smith at C, and Caldwell at RG?

I think I'm with Badboy on this. I'm expecting Shelley Smith at LG, Myers back at C, and Caldwell at RG. Although, I think Caldwell gets a shot at C.

Wade is gonna have to beat out Studdard, yeah only because of his experience/quickness for scheme, this is the reason they paid him starting money.

Myers is the starter until overthrown. But if I compare both coming out of College I'd give the edge to Shelly in almost every category, except snaps. His combination of speed, power & atlethic ability simply trumps Myers for this scheme, well thats my expectation. Caldwell can develop into an pro-bowl RG, the proof will be the abiltiy of these more athletic guards & center pulling & executing their zones, Tate/Slaton will just need to break that first cut & go.

This is my opinion only :polevault:

otisbean
05-04-2010, 08:01 AM
I believe we were 13th in total defense (yards allowed).

We tied for 10th in rushing yards allowed with Tennessee and Atlanta.

But, we were also the 5th least team ran against, with only 24.8 attempts per game.

We rated 16th (tied with Indy, Chicago, and Tennessee) for allowing 4.3 yards per carry.

Only seven teams allowed more runs for 20 yards than we did(14); KC(15), Denver, Giants(17), Buffalo, Detroit(18), Oakland(19), and Tampa Bay(25).

We tied for 17th for the most runs allowed over 40 yards, with 3. Buffalo Carolina, Cleveland, Denver, Jacksonville, Saints, Seahawks, & Washington were also at 17. Arizona, KC, Tennessee, and the Giants allowed 4. Detroit allowed 5, Oakland and St Louis allowed 6.

We tied for 6th, with Carolina, Greenbay, Chicago, and Washington by forcing 10 fumbles. Only San Diego (11), Oakland and Atlanta (12), Denver (13), and Jacksonville (15) forced more. .Does that sound right?

We did allow the longest run of the season, 91 yards and a touchdown.

You are proving my point. We play the run well, therefore DT may not have been as big a need as BB was suggesting. If I remember correctly most of the long runs we gave up were in the first 3 games of the year, and I believe i mentioned that they played really well in the last 13 games. The first 3 games from a defensive perspective were a joke.

Good stat work!

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 08:30 AM
You are proving my point. We play the run well, therefore DT may not have been as big a need as BB was suggesting. If I remember correctly most of the long runs we gave up were in the first 3 games of the year, and I believe i mentioned that they played really well in the last 13 games. The first 3 games from a defensive perspective were a joke.

Good stat work!

Looking at those stats, I think they are saying we don't play the run as well as we want to believe. The 5th least run on... to me, that's screaming TOP battle, and a good defense being a good offense.

If you look at Super Mario (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1419220&postcount=127)'s post from the Eric Mitchell thread, it shows we were average most of the season, elite in a couple of games, then slightly above average in others.
Here is what I have. 4.0 YPC was middle of the pack last year. So we werent awful. We had some good streches where we kept teams under 3 YPC and some bad streches where teams were over 5.0 YPC.

Week 1 vs. NYJ - 42 attempts - 190 yards - 4.52 YPC.
Week 2 @ TEN - 25 attempts - 240 yards - 9.6 YPC.
Week 3 vs. JAX - 32 attempts - 185 yards - 5.78 YPC.
Week 4 vs. OAK - 21 attempts - 45 yards - 2.14 YPC.
Week 5 @ ARI - 16 attempts - 44 yards - 2.75 YPC.
Week 6 @ CIN - 17 attempts - 46 yards - 2.70 YPC.
Week 7 vs. SF - 19 attempts - 59 yards - 3.10 YPC.
Week 8 @BUF - 20 attempts - 97 yards - 4.85 YPC.
Week 9 @ IND - 18 attempts - 72 yards - 4.0 YPC.
Week 10 BYE
Week 11 vs. TEN - 42 attempts - 228 yards - 5.4 YPC.
Week 12 vs. IND - 23 attempts - 114 yards - 4.95 YPC.
Week 13 @ JAX - 36 attempts - 107 yards - 2.97 YPC.
Week 14 vs. SEA - 24 attempts - 62 yards - 2.58 YPC.
Week 15 @ STL - 27 attempts - 88 yards - 3.38 YPC.
Week 16 @ MIA - 16 attempts - 60 yards - 3.75 YPC.
Week 17 vs. NE - 19 attempts - 74 yards - 3.89 YPC.

We were pathetic in the first three games, but also @ Buff (Week 9), home against Tennessee (Week 11), and home against INDY (Week 9)

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 08:57 AM
all anyone has to do is go back to game day threads & count the number of times someone fired Chris Myers to better understand the Texans had a problem with interior line play, that this need would be addressed in the offseason :roast:

I don't agree with this. Chris Myers was not our biggest weakness in the run game, regardless what the fans think.

Caldwell also has much longer arms & doesn't seem to have the strength needed to anchor like Smith from the center position.

What do you mean by "anchor" ?

otisbean
05-04-2010, 10:08 AM
Looking at those stats, I think they are saying we don't play the run as well as we want to believe. The 5th least run on... to me, that's screaming TOP battle, and a good defense being a good offense.

If you look at Super Mario (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1419220&postcount=127)'s post from the Eric Mitchell thread, it shows we were average most of the season, elite in a couple of games, then slightly above average in others.


We were pathetic in the first three games, but also @ Buff (Week 9), home against Tennessee (Week 11), and home against INDY (Week 9)

I don't know, in 7 games we held opp. to under 3.5 per carry, and there were 2 more games where we held them to under 4 per carry. We had 10 games where we held opp to under 100 yds rushing. Those were pretty solid numbers against the run to me. All of those games mentioned above came after the first three games. If we're the 5th least run on team then perhaps teams are running on us because we play the run well, choosing to attack our weaker pass defense. If I were coaching the Texans I would probably choose to attack the secondary vs the front 7, but that's me.

In watching games last year I thought after the first 3 games we stopped the run really well. Indy gets some yards because they have solid backs and lets face it, when playing Indy you should be playing pass first which means 7 in the box which makes it easier to run. Ten put up good numbers but they have the best RB in the league and some of their running numbers in the 2nd game will be skewed because of VY. He did alot of damage against us with his feet. I don't fault the DL as much for a rushing QB. Yea, they should contain him, but if he breaks contain then LBs and DBs are down field covering leaving easy yards for him. This is also atypical for a pro offense, playing a rushing QB.

IMHO, the front 7 is very solid against the run and to me the numbers you posted show that.

otisbean
05-04-2010, 10:12 AM
I don't agree with this. Chris Myers was not our biggest weakness in the run game, regardless what the fans think.



What do you mean by "anchor" ?

Chris Meyers is good against a 4-3, against the 3-4 he has some troubles with huge NTs, but most centers do.

By anchoring he means being able to hold his ground and be driven back into the pocket.

infantrycak
05-04-2010, 10:24 AM
Week 1 vs. NYJ - 42 attempts - 190 yards - 4.52 YPC - 4.5 season average so not far off.
Week 2 @ TEN - 25 attempts - 240 yards - 9.6 YPC - 5.2 clearly a bad game.
Week 3 vs. JAX - 32 attempts - 185 yards - 5.78 YPC - 4.5 also a bad game.
Week 4 vs. OAK - 21 attempts - 45 yards - 2.14 YPC - 4.1 so under dramatically.
Week 5 @ ARI - 16 attempts - 44 yards - 2.75 YPC - 4.1 under again.
Week 6 @ CIN - 17 attempts - 46 yards - 2.70 YPC - 4.1 so three weeks in a row.
Week 7 vs. SF - 19 attempts - 59 yards - 3.10 YPC - 4.3 rocking along.
Week 8 @BUF - 20 attempts - 97 yards - 4.85 YPC - 4.4 so 2nd instance of the season doing worse than average.
Week 9 @ IND - 18 attempts - 72 yards - 4.0 YPC - 3.5 3rd.
Week 10 BYE
Week 11 vs. TEN - 42 attempts - 228 yards - 5.4 YPC 5.2 so barely 4th.
Week 12 vs. IND - 23 attempts - 114 yards - 4.95 YPC 3.5 - one of the bigger failures.
Week 13 @ JAX - 36 attempts - 107 yards - 2.97 YPC - 4.5 so good game.
Week 14 vs. SEA - 24 attempts - 62 yards - 2.58 YPC - 4.0 so again under average.
Week 15 @ STL - 27 attempts - 88 yards - 3.38 YPC 4.3 yet again.
Week 16 @ MIA - 16 attempts - 60 yards - 3.75 YPC - 4.4.
Week 17 vs. NE - 19 attempts - 74 yards - 3.89 YPC - 4.1.

Basically the run D failed only a few times compared to the NFL.

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 12:46 PM
See if this makes any sense. I haven't analyzed it, just put it together, using stats from NFL.com

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Thunderkyss/2009vsRun.jpg

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 12:56 PM
Basically the run D failed only a few times compared to the NFL.

I'm not saying we're awful. I just don't think we're as good as we thought we were. I know I thought we were better, but the games agains the Colts who had no run offense... and 9 games giving up close to 4.0 ypc... is just not as good as I thought we were.

I would be surprised if this is in line with what everyone is thinking.

As an aside, next years opponents are pretty similar to this years in rushing attack. I understand some of them are going to be better in 2010. Hopefully, some of them will be worse. I feel like we will be better.

I think it won't be long, before people start talking about our D, like they used to talk about Philly, New York, and Chicago.

Honoring Earl 34
05-04-2010, 01:03 PM
I'm not saying we're awful. I just don't think we're as good as we thought we were. I know I thought we were better, but the games agains the Colts who had no run offense... and 9 games giving up close to 4.0 ypc... is just not as good as I thought we were.

I would be surprised if this is in line with what everyone is thinking.

As an aside, next years opponents are pretty similar to this years in rushing attack. I understand some of them are going to be better in 2010. Hopefully, some of them will be worse. I feel like we will be better.

I think it won't be long, before people start talking about our D, like they used to talk about Philly, New York, and Chicago.

Maybe the Texans figure that their offense is going to be so good , the defense just needs to make some stops and get some big plays .

badboy
05-04-2010, 01:06 PM
Maybe the Texans figure that their offense is going to be so good , the defense just needs to make some stops and get some big plays .That may be true, but if the opponent is getting 4+yards a carry our O. may not be on the field as much as we want.

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 01:11 PM
Tried to give you rep, but can't. Good post.
I don't know
All of those games mentioned above came after the first three games.

I was merely mentioning that we had some bad games late in the year, Buffalo, Tennessee, Indy

If we're the 5th least run on team then perhaps teams are running on us because we play the run well, choosing to attack our weaker pass defense. If I were coaching the Texans I would probably choose to attack the secondary vs the front 7, but that's me.

Understood... that could be

In watching games last year I thought after the first 3 games we stopped the run really well.

I think we did too. But there was usually that one play, where someone brainfarted... just saying, another area to work on.

Indy gets some yards because they have solid backs and lets face it, when playing Indy you should be playing pass first which means 7 in the box which makes it easier to run.

I like Kubiak, but if anyone is looking for a good argument about our division record, here it is. Indy played us like a fiddle. They had us on our heels. IMHO, that's the only way they can run like that on us, and not anyone else.

Ten put up good numbers but they have the best RB in the league and some of their running numbers in the 2nd game will be skewed because of VY. He did alot of damage against us with his feet. I don't fault the DL as much for a rushing QB. Yea, they should contain him, but if he breaks contain then LBs and DBs are down field covering leaving easy yards for him. This is also atypical for a pro offense, playing a rushing QB.

I've watched the game several times. Our biggest mistake, was when Diles was supposed to be contain... that's when he had his biggest runs. When Pollard was contain... or when Dunta was on that side, he didn't get much.

Not knocking Diles, but he bought on the run fake and got out of position too many times against VY.

IMHO, the front 7 is very solid against the run and to me the numbers you posted show that.

I'm not saying we weren't. I just thought we were elite, with the first three games skewing the numbers. That just isn't the case... like you said, solid. Not elite.

otisbean
05-04-2010, 01:18 PM
I think we are on our way to being a top 7-10 D against the run. We still have alot of youth in our front 7. If our pass rush improves as I think it can, we may up having a top 10 D overall. Some of that depends on how Kareem does as I'm guessing the plan is for him to start. I'm also hoping that Quin improves over last season vs pulling a Fred Bennett. Heck, I'd love to see Molden and Bennett play and play well.

I think with the addition of Mitchell to our pass D, our nickel pass rush has the potential to be down right nasty. MW, Smith, Mitchell, and Barwin - that's alot of speed and athleticism to contend with and if start bringing Cush and Ryans on blitzes - man I can't wait for Sept!

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 01:27 PM
I think we are on our way to being a top 7-10 D against the run.

We are already a top 10 D against the run. Only 9 teams gave up less yards.

badboy
05-04-2010, 01:41 PM
I think we are on our way to being a top 7-10 D against the run. We still have alot of youth in our front 7. If our pass rush improves as I think it can, we may up having a top 10 D overall. Some of that depends on how Kareem does as I'm guessing the plan is for him to start. I'm also hoping that Quin improves over last season vs pulling a Fred Bennett. Heck, I'd love to see Molden and Bennett play and play well.

I think with the addition of Mitchell to our pass D, our nickel pass rush has the potential to be down right nasty. MW, Smith, Mitchell, and Barwin - that's alot of speed and athleticism to contend with and if start bringing Cush and Ryans on blitzes - man I can't wait for Sept!Does anyone know how many blitzes of any type we ran last season? I can't seem to remember any.

otisbean
05-04-2010, 01:44 PM
Does anyone know how many blitzes of any type we ran last season? I can't seem to remember any.

We didn't blitz a ton, but we definitely increased in number as the season progressed. i think we had so many breakdowns early in the year they kept it simple. As the season progressed and everybody knew what they were doing, the number increased - especially with Cush and Ryans.

badboy
05-04-2010, 02:25 PM
We didn't blitz a ton, but we definitely increased in number as the season progressed. i think we had so many breakdowns early in the year they kept it simple. As the season progressed and everybody knew what they were doing, the number increased - especially with Cush and Ryans.That is one of the riskiest plays but if it works it is so sweet and like a score or sack, it pumps up players and fans. I like to see blitzes from the DBs but will be surprised if we have many this season.

The Pencil Neck
05-04-2010, 03:51 PM
Does anyone know how many blitzes of any type we ran last season? I can't seem to remember any.

We actually blitzed quite a bit. We mostly sent Cush, Demeco, and/or Pollard. They didn't always get sacks but they got some pressure from time to time. The blitzes worked a lot better than they did in the Smith era.

BigBull17
05-05-2010, 12:59 AM
We actually blitzed quite a bit. We mostly sent Cush, Demeco, and/or Pollard. They didn't always get sacks but they got some pressure from time to time. The blitzes worked a lot better than they did in the Smith era.

Diles is a pretty poor blitzer. Not Greenwood bad, but he isnt a natural blitzer.