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tacoman_j
03-09-2005, 01:08 AM
One of the few articles on Texans by beat reporter. Peek has a chance to start next year, and it seems that Texans are more interested in OLBs that ILBs. So, Texas fans, maybe no DJ!!

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/nfl/3075853

TEXANS84
03-09-2005, 01:17 AM
Peek needs to start...and I think the coaches finally figured that out with the final 4 games left.

But this is the thing that really concerns me:

Peek, who will be entering the final season of a three-year contract

They need to hurry up and sign him for at least 2 more years. I really think this guy is gonna turn heads in a starting role position.

TexanFanInCC
03-09-2005, 02:20 AM
well, according to my dad, the texans coaching staff feels that peek needs to improve in pass coverage bc they feel that he makes alot of dumb mistakes in coverage. quite frankly, i would love to see him out there everyday. i would lock him in for at least 10 sacks in 16 games. it seemed like every time peek went into the game, he was wreaking havok on the offensive line causing them to false start, getting to the QB, forcing fumbles, or making big hits.

Cincinnatikid
03-09-2005, 07:28 AM
I think my boy has improved already, look at his coverage in Indy where he was in perfect position/coverage one play, and then the next he picks one off. To be honest, he isnt going to sign a contract here unless he starts this season. If things go well during the season maybe something could be done but nothing is going to happen before that point in time. And if he does start and plays well, maybe he will be testing the market.

keyfro
03-09-2005, 07:33 AM
you know the main reason i've hoped for peek to get into the starting lineup is not because of his production but because of his attitude on the field...the man is just mean on the field and i think that's what we need in a linebacker out there

nunusguy
03-09-2005, 07:35 AM
"If deals can't be worked out, there's a good chance both will be released."
***********
This from the Carlton's Chron story:
Looks like (A) try to work out a trade for both (B) if that fails try to restructure contracts (C) if that fails Sharper and/or Foreman flat out cut.
Whoa, the times they are a changin ! We could end up with our 4-man LB
crew returning only one starter (and a rookie last year at that), from the positions they played/started at last year.

infantrycak
03-09-2005, 07:53 AM
To be honest, he isnt going to sign a contract here unless he starts this season.

If Peek doesn't start this year he will still most likely be a Texan the year after unless the Texans have given up on him. He will be a RFA so the Texans will tender him unless they consider him a complete bust--depending on the level of tender that will mean either a 3rd round pick, 1st round pick or 1st & 3rd round picks as compensation. The Texans have a right to match any offer made. With a mid or high tender by the Texans Peek probably wouldn't even get any offers--who is going to give up a 1st on a guy that hasn't been starting?

Having said that, I would suspect that the Texans will have just about given up on Peek if he can't break into the starting lineup at some point this season. With Capers talking about him being the most athletic LB on the team, if he isn't out there it is because they think he just doesn't get the mental aspect of the game.

well, according to my dad, the texans coaching staff feels that peek needs to improve in pass coverage

Funny, one of the Texans' LB coaches said he was either their best or one of their best in coverage last year at some point. If coverage skills were keeping Peek on the bench Foreman should have been sitting right next to him.

texasguy346
03-09-2005, 08:03 AM
Funny, one of the Texans' LB coaches said he was either their best or one of their best in coverage last year at some point. If coverage skills were keeping Peek on the bench Foreman should have been sitting right next to him.

After reading that I had flashbacks of Foreman running around in a desperate attempt to keep up with a TE with his arms waving wildly over his head as the ball flies over his head and into the TE's hands. :thumbdown

Marcus
03-09-2005, 08:11 AM
Peek has the physical ability to play OLB, and he does well in situations where there are obvious passing downs.

But he drives the coaches nuts with both his immaturity issues, and the inability for him the to grasp the system as a whole. John Granato on 610 said it best. In order for Peek to be an every down player, the coaches would have to "dumb it down" so that Peek could understand it.

And it fits. With the offseason moves that Casserly is making, it doesn't look to me that Peek is in their plans

nunusguy
03-09-2005, 08:23 AM
The Texans really have a bad track record regarding the way they've
handled several of their LBs and this situation with Sharper could get messy. For whatever reason, they screwed up with both Posey and Foley while all the
time admitting one of the teams biggest unfilled needs was improving the
pass rush - a prime job description of OLBs. And then theres Peek - last
year of his contract and they are reportedly finally making a push to work him into the starting lineup.
Babin is the only young LB they have really pushed as a starter and it still remains unclear why they so agressively pushed him ?

Beastlyman2003
03-09-2005, 10:06 AM
I dont know what yall think but i love it when I see Peek out there getting all in somebodys @$$! I dont know why some guys are like," He is too immature, he needs to be under control" and i agree to a short extent but I love it when a player has a fire burning inside and they play with everything they got. Like after they get a tackle, they dont just stand up(Jamie Sharper) and walk back to the huddle, They get up clapping and hoopin and hollerin. I just think we shouldnt always try to control Peek, I think we should UNLEASH him.

tacoman_j
03-09-2005, 10:37 AM
I hope we pick him. He is 272 pounds with decent speed. We need to get younger and speedier on defense

Lucky
03-09-2005, 10:47 AM
...With the offseason moves that Casserly is making, it doesn't look to me that Peek is in their plans
With Dom in Madison today taking a look at Erasmus James, that doesn't bode well for Peek's future at ROLB. From the Chronic link above:

The Texans have the 13th pick in the first round of next month's draft, and there are some intriguing prospects who project as outside linebackers in their 3-4 scheme. Today, Capers will attend the University of Wisconsin's pro day, presumably to get a better look at Erasmus James, considered one of the top three defensive end prospects in the draft.

V Man
03-09-2005, 11:19 AM
To me, Peeks problems wasn't his coverage skills, but his stopping the run techniques. How many times does he have to get hook and give up contain before he learns. That is what is keeeping him from being a everydown player. Last year, he basically only played on passing downs (mainly for his pass rush), but on 1 and 10 or 2 and 6 (rushing downs) he was too much of a liability.

TheOgre
03-09-2005, 11:30 AM
Run containment is one of Peek's weak areas. He isn't very smart either.

Doom Capers
03-09-2005, 12:02 PM
Peek deserves a chance to be a starter. He brings a lot of energy to the defense.

tacoman_j
03-09-2005, 01:36 PM
Run containment is one of Peek's weak areas. He isn't very smart either.


That's not cool!!

keyfro
03-09-2005, 01:50 PM
you know this isn't the first time capers defense has been too complicated for a talented player...when he was up in carolina he had to bring in guys like kevin greene to play because none of the younger guys understood what was going on...that's why after greene retired capers team took a nose dive...in pittsburgh the samething happened with gildon and kirkland...that's why "dumbing down" the defense may not be a bad thing...just a wrong way of looking at it...i mean look at the players we've had in here to run the defense...clemons, peek, posey, wong, babin, etc...you can't tell me that all of these guys weren't smart...they had to get through college and into the pros some how...and sometimes the best thing a coach can do is keep it simple...better to have a simple game plan were everyone knows what they're doing so they can go full speed than a complex one that only works when players have been doing it for years and finally grasp the concepts

Cincinnatikid
03-09-2005, 01:50 PM
Run containment is one of Peek's weak areas. He isn't very smart either.

And you know how smart he is how? Have you talked to the man? Dont even try to comment on a persons intelligence when you have no idea. I believe he graduted from college, which is a lot more than half the NFL can say. There is a difference between being stupid and trying to learn a new system. He never had the chances like Babin did of learning on the job, he had to learn watching from the sideline in games. Makes the learning curve take longer when you cant do things.
Run contain was a weak point for him, but I believe there were a couple games where the Dime package was in the whole game and there wasnt a play where he missed contain in those, and there werent any long runs against them. Case in point, which i have used multiple times, at Indy he had a goal line play where he waited on the left side and took down Edge at the line of scrimmage.

Vinny
03-09-2005, 01:54 PM
you know this isn't the first time capers defense has been too complicated for a talented player...when he was up in carolina he had to bring in guys like kevin greene to play because none of the younger guys understood what was going on...that's why after greene retired capers team took a nose dive...in pittsburgh the samething happened with gildon and kirkland...that's why "dumbing down" the defense may not be a bad thing...just a wrong way of looking at it...i mean look at the players we've had in here to run the defense...clemons, peek, posey, wong, babin, etc...you can't tell me that all of these guys weren't smart...they had to get through college and into the pros some how...and sometimes the best thing a coach can do is keep it simple...better to have a simple game plan were everyone knows what they're doing so they can go full speed than a complex one that only works when players have been doing it for years and finally grasp the conceptsI agree with you on balance. I've never been a big fan of overly complex defenses because playing defense is all about react and chase. The less you have to think the better. That said, the Pats run a very complex scheme and so do the Titans. They always have fine defenses. Most of the time it takes a good 3 years to reach your peak as a starting OLB in most 3-4 defenses as a converted position player off the D-line. This will be the break out year for Peek or the break him year.

TheOgre
03-09-2005, 02:10 PM
There is a reason he isn't starting and the rumor is that he has difficulty grasping the defense. It definitely isn't because of his speed/rushing skills. He had the issue with getting the playbook stolen. He was in the doghouse a lot early on due to his propensity to show up late to sessions. It could be that he is just immature. I think it is a combination of both though. Otherwise, I think he would be starting by now.

This is his third season and he still isn't pencilled in as a starter yet.

texansfan88
03-09-2005, 02:12 PM
With Dom in Madison today taking a look at Erasmus James, that doesn't bode well for Peek's future at ROLB. From the Chronic link above:
There's 6 possibilities he's looking at today:

Erasmus James
Anttaj Hawthorne
Jonathan Clinkscale (G)
Dan Buenning (G)
Jonathan Orr (WR)
Jim Leonhard (S)

I wouldn't put too much attention towards they're there just to look at James, especially with 2 of the top guards in the house

nunusguy
03-09-2005, 02:46 PM
There is a reason he isn't starting and the rumor is that he has difficulty grasping the defense. It definitely isn't because of his speed/rushing skills. He had the issue with getting the playbook stolen. He was in the doghouse a lot early on due to his propensity to show up late to sessions. It could be that he is just immature. I think it is a combination of both though. Otherwise, I think he would be starting by now.
This is his third season and he still isn't pencilled in as a starter yet.
I wondered if perhaps he was a bit of a slow learner. That's unfortunate, because he is a talented young man. I heard him being interviewed once on the radio and he seemed to be reasonably responsive to the questions, but I
just heard him talk the one time. But his outbursts and lack of discipline from time to time on the field maybe are more of a sign of immaturety than anything. True story: I played ball with a guy in college who was so aggressive and undisciplined, once in one-on-one tackling drills the coaches egged him on a little and he attacked the ball carrier and actually started
choking him. Hey, no matter how good you are, if you can't play under control
you can hurt your team more than you can help it.

texansfan88
03-09-2005, 02:53 PM
I wondered if perhaps he was a bit of a slow learner. That's unfortunate, because he is a talented young man. I heard him being interviewed once on the radio and he seemed to be reasonably responsive to the questions, but I
just heard him talk the one time. But his outbursts and lack of discipline from time to time on the field maybe are more of a sign of immaturety than anything. True story: I played ball with a guy in college who was so aggressive and undisciplined, once in one-on-one tackling drills the coaches egged him on a little and he attacked the ball carrier and actually started
choking him. Hey, no matter how good you are, if you can't play under control
you can hurt your team more than you can help it.
He's an extremely smart person. His poetry is amazing as well. He's just had bad experiences in his life that for some reason, come out when he steps on the field.

dmt217
03-09-2005, 03:08 PM
After reading that I had flashbacks of Foreman running around in a desperate attempt to keep up with a TE with his arms waving wildly over his head as the ball flies over his head and into the TE's hands. :thumbdown

And I get flashbacks of Foreman getting "knocked down" by the smoke from Favre's pass. :heh:

TEXANS84
03-09-2005, 03:29 PM
And I get flashbacks of Foreman getting "knocked down" by the smoke from Favre's pass. :heh:

I DVR'ed that game...it was the "vapor trail" that flew right over his hands...all too familiar. :cool:

TheOgre
03-09-2005, 03:50 PM
Perhaps it is mainly maturity that is the root of his problem. Regardless, there is something other than physical talent that is keeping him off the field.

texasguy346
03-09-2005, 04:15 PM
And I get flashbacks of Foreman getting "knocked down" by the smoke from Favre's pass. :heh:

Man...just when I was able to sleep at night. Now I'm going to have vapor trail nightmares. :thumbdown

Marcus
03-09-2005, 04:35 PM
"Antwan obviously has athletic ability," Texans coach Dom Capers said. "He might be as good, if not the best, athlete we have at that position. He made great strides from the first year to the second year, and we expect him to make those same kinds of strides in year three. ... He'll have a chance to start. We'll be looking to put our best people on the field."

Whether it was immaturity issues, (and many promising NFL players ruin their careers for just that reason) or inabilty to learn the system . . there has to be a very significant reason why the "best athlete at that position" was not starting.

John McClain of the Chronicle says that Peek drives the coaches nuts. He has said it many times whenever he is asked a question about Peek. Now, have the coaches given up on him? If they draft another DE/OLB tweener with the 1st pick, then we'll know the answer.

yaboycm
03-09-2005, 06:00 PM
Football players play on the field says everything. When Peek is in the game something special happens. The Texans need to find a way to get him starting and on the field as much as possible.

M@DD Mike
03-09-2005, 06:11 PM
Peeks the man! He'll prove it this season.

texansfan88
03-09-2005, 06:23 PM
Peeks the man! He'll prove it this season.
man, i cant wait til he cost us a game and hearing everyone saying this totally bash him...you know it's going to happen.

M@DD Mike
03-09-2005, 06:28 PM
The lack of a pass rush has cost us a bunch of games it can only get better.

Cincinnatikid
03-09-2005, 07:59 PM
man, i cant wait til he cost us a game and hearing everyone saying this totally bash him...you know it's going to happen.

He is never going to cost a game, if he gets beat there should always be another guy behind him that should make the play as well. No player can cost a game unless they intentionally throw a game. Its also not a lack of maturity. An immature person in his past situations would not have made it this far. Also, I enjoyed the response earlier about other Capers teams that had to dummy down the defense, and when they did they started doing well. I believe the panthers had some good years and the steelers are killing on defense now. However i agree with texan88, just like every other player on this team, people change their minds on them no matter what. The fans need to start being real fans and support their guys. Maybe the team should start letting little kids take them to practice on their bikes like the Packers do. Im not saying the Texans fans arent great but some extra loyalty could go a long way.

Tulip
03-09-2005, 08:45 PM
Peek is my favorite player. He's kind of an underdog just because of the way the coaches use him (or don't use him), so it's always more exciting to see him make big plays than anyone else.

I'm always for more Peek.

Lucky
03-09-2005, 11:01 PM
There's 6 possibilities he's looking at today:

Erasmus James
Anttaj Hawthorne
Jonathan Clinkscale (G)
Dan Buenning (G)
Jonathan Orr (WR)
Jim Leonhard (S)

Please. A head coach doesn't pick a school to visit to see mid round guards & likely to be undrafted prospects. Capers could be looking a Hawthorne, I'm sure he did while he was there. But on one of the biggest pro days of the season, Capers chose Wisconsin over Florida, LSU, & Oklahoma. And he did it to see Erasmus James.

edo783
03-09-2005, 11:18 PM
Please. A head coach doesn't pick a school to visit to see mid round guards & likely to be undrafted prospects. Capers could be looking a Hawthorne, I'm sure he did while he was there. But on one of the biggest pro days of the season, Capers chose Wisconsin over Florida, LSU, & Oklahoma. And he did it to see Erasmus James.

Sounds probable to me. Might be a pretty strong indication of the direction the thinking is going in the Texans war room.

TexansTrueFan
03-09-2005, 11:30 PM
ya know i'm sure some would say ray lewis is immature, but nobody complains when he's out there making plays, so let peek play.

MojoX
03-09-2005, 11:33 PM
ya know i'm sure some would say ray lewis is immature, but nobody complains when he's out there making plays, so let peek play.
But hardly anyone would say Ray Lewis misses his assignments.

TexansTrueFan
03-09-2005, 11:45 PM
But hardly anyone would say Ray Lewis misses his assignments.


i cant recall seeing peek miss to many assignments.

TexanFanInCC
03-09-2005, 11:45 PM
Run containment is one of Peek's weak areas. He isn't very smart either.

yeah my dad was telling me how the coaching staff doesnt think he has the intelligence to be a consistent pass coverer

MojoX
03-09-2005, 11:50 PM
i cant recall seeing peek miss to many assignments.
How could you tell? Are you the one who took his playbook? :) Anyway, isn't the complaint that Peek's immaturity affects his play such that he becomes a liability when he isn't strictly head hunting the QB?

TexansTrueFan
03-10-2005, 12:06 AM
How could you tell? Are you the one who took his playbook? :) Anyway, isn't the complaint that Peek's immaturity affects his play such that he becomes a liability when he isn't strictly head hunting the QB?


oh you must also have EVERY game the texans have ever played recorded just like me. And buddy i hate to tell ya theres a difference between immaturity and a passion for the game, when i see peek play on the field during GAMES he brings intensity/passion to the game, now what he does off the field is none of our buisness. I'm sorry if scooping up a fumble and running it back for a td is immature to you :hmmm:

MojoX
03-10-2005, 12:50 AM
oh you must also have EVERY game the texans have ever played recorded just like me. And buddy i hate to tell ya theres a difference between immaturity and a passion for the game, when i see peek play on the field during GAMES he brings intensity/passion to the game, now what he does off the field is none of our buisness. I'm sorry if scooping up a fumble and running it back for a td is immature to you :hmmm:
I'm not concerned with his off the field activities. The playbook comment was a joke about our abilities to assess player assignments in Capers complex scheme without knowing what a player's duty was on a given play.

I personally like Peek and hope to see him start. I am strictly trying to guess why the coaches haven't been giving him more playing time, despite him being called our best pass rusher and best cover LB. I also want to know why they always seem interested in getting another starting ROLB. I haven't questioned his passion. I have questioned is ability to be a disciplined, multi-dimensional player -- what I would consider a "mature" player.

My question is how well does Peek play against the run and the pass when he isn't just teeing off on the QB? Why is he a situational pass rusher and not a 3-down LB? Does Peek balance out his great play with boneheaded plays? I only have coaches comments to go on, such as this (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2957232):
Coach Dom Capers was seen giving second-year outside linebacker Antwan Peek
an earful on the sideline on Sunday against the
Bears.

Peek was involved in a shoving match on the field and was flagged for a 15-yard roughing-the-passer penalty on the Bears' final possession. The Texans' coaching staff doesn't question Peek's pass-rush ability but does want him to control his emotions.

"I love Antwan's passion and emotion. I think that's what it takes to play this game," Capers said. "But you don't want to do anything that's gong to hurt your football team."

nunusguy
03-10-2005, 07:19 AM
But on one of the biggest pro days of the season, Capers chose Wisconsin over Florida, LSU, & Oklahoma. And he did it to see Erasmus James.
I agree with half of this, but I think the guy he wants to see at Wiconsin most of all is the tackle Hawthorne. What's more they could move back in
the first round and have a better chance of getting Hawthorne than James.

Cincinnatikid
03-10-2005, 07:32 AM
This thread is getting ridiculous. Theres a difference between being too juiced up and emotional on the field and being immature. Immature means you are going to sit around complaining about everything and doing stupid things off the field. Getting a penalty on the field after a play means that you are hustling to make a play and are a half second late, you are sticking up for a teammate, or you arent going to take someones **** from the other team. I believe all of those have been reasons for each of his penalities. If im a player I want that person on the field that isnt going to sit there when i started getting pushed around by the other team, I want the guy that is going to come over and clear them out. I also want the player that shows the other team that he isnt going to get pushed around himself. That is why he is a weapon that is being wasted on the sideline. The guy makes LT jump multiple times out of fear of being beat and his mouth. It would be one thing if he did these things and had no production, but I believe, according to the Texans own web page, that he made a great play like 50% of the plays he was in this season. It returning fumbles for touchdowns, intercepting a pass, blocking a punt, and striking fear into lineman and QBs is immature then I want 22 immature stupid *****s on my team. They may get a 15 yarder once every few games but they will also be winning those games. I want a little old school raider swagger out on the field.

Marcus
03-10-2005, 08:41 AM
Again . . . the question remains.

Why is the "best physical talent at the position" just a situational pass-rusher, and nothing else?

Because the entire coaching staff is stupid? No . . ya gotta dig a little deeper than that.

infantrycak
03-10-2005, 08:58 AM
Getting a penalty on the field after a play means that you are hustling to make a play and are a half second late, you are sticking up for a teammate, or you arent going to take someones **** from the other team.

Sorry but no. Maybe one of Peek's penalties was ticky tacky last year but most were just plain bone-headed not walking away after the play and picking stupid fights. Hopefully Peek doesn't think like you because if he does he won't change what he is doing. If he wants to be all excited I am all for that, but once the whistle blows he needs to do it with his teammates not by getting in scuffles with the opposing team after every play. I want to see Peek starting, but in order for that to happen he is going to have to convince Capers that he is not going to draw 1-2 personal fouls every game. IMO if he was out there full time some of that would naturally die down once his overexuberance of being on the field settled down.

Doug
03-10-2005, 09:09 AM
I don't know where your definition of immature comes from but I do know a part of the definition is "lacking complete growth", whether mentally or physically. I firmly believe that given the chance to start a full season he would tone down his mouth just a bit and let his play do the talking. Several penalties I've seen were do to his mouth causing confrontation. The guy is great and I think he gets so wound up just having those small windows of opportunity to play that he gets swept up in the moment by his emotions, which to some people are good and to others bad. Nobody can argue the fact that he's good at what he does, I just think he needs some fine tuning.

TheOgre
03-10-2005, 09:20 AM
He has LT syndrome without the same level of talent. Parcells never knew where Taylor would be on a given play. He just had too much talent to keep him off the field.

Cincinnatikid
03-10-2005, 02:47 PM
He has LT syndrome without the same level of talent. Parcells never knew where Taylor would be on a given play. He just had too much talent to keep him off the field.

He isnt a crazy person running wrecklessly all over, occasionally there was bad contain in preseason but that was it. And how many penalities did he get this season? I cant remember too many, there were some shoving matches but they didnt get penalties. ANd yes, if he played he would naturally calm down because he would be out there all the time. The games he did start he did much better. Once again, he just needs that chance.

TexansTrueFan
03-11-2005, 01:03 AM
ok so what he gets a few penalties called against him, so what ??? He's made me wanna buy his jersey. And some question his run stopping ability, well if ya watched the last 3 games you will see he played the run very well and came up with some big stops for us !