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texanskan
04-29-2010, 02:02 PM
anyone think he is going to become the player he can be?

This would solve our need for a big DT.

I don't really see any holes in the defense other than depth issues at the safety position.

Ryan
04-29-2010, 02:08 PM
I think Earl Mitchell has already made him expendable. He could be cut unless Zgonina decides to hang it up or if he really proves himself.

TheRealJoker
04-29-2010, 02:10 PM
Definitely a "bubble player" heading into training camp...

But some people believed Jacoby Jones was a bubble player last season when he turned the corner. So lets see if he performs to his potential.

I'm more interested in seeing whether Deljuan Robinson gets more PT personally.

gary
04-29-2010, 02:12 PM
Jeff does not have much longer to play in the NFL anyway but I do like Jeff.

barrett
04-29-2010, 02:13 PM
Jeff does not have much longer to play in the NFL anyway but I do like Jeff.

Don't expect him back. They gave away his #.

gary
04-29-2010, 02:16 PM
Don't expect him back. They gave away his #.Is he still on the Roster?

badboy
04-29-2010, 02:17 PM
There is no need for a big DT in this defensive scheme.

barrett
04-29-2010, 02:20 PM
Is he still on the Roster?

Technically he's an URFA.

gary
04-29-2010, 02:22 PM
Technically he's an URFA.I did not know that. Thanks.

The Pencil Neck
04-29-2010, 02:22 PM
Don't expect him back. They gave away his #.

They've given his number away before. The guy is like a cockroach. You could nuke him and he'd just shake it off, strap his helmet on, and ask to be put into the rotation.

Gotta love the guy.

badboy
04-29-2010, 02:25 PM
They've given his number away before. The guy is like a cockroach. You could nuke him and he'd just shake it off, strap his helmet on, and ask to be put into the rotation.

Gotta love the guy.Yep, never a star but earned his check every game.

eriadoc
04-29-2010, 02:27 PM
There is no need for a big DT in this defensive scheme.

I disagree. The Texans think there is no need for a big Dt in this defensive scheme, but they have yet to convince me. They also think they're OK at FS and that Chris Myers is a good Center, so there you go.

m5kwatts
04-29-2010, 02:37 PM
Okam is one of the most frustrating players in the NFL... if you took Pollard/Cushing's brain and put it in Okam's head he'd be one of the best DT's in the NFL....unfortunately he is who he is and I don't think he makes it out of camp.

Allstar
04-29-2010, 02:39 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath...

HOU-TEX
04-29-2010, 02:44 PM
Re: Okam
wasted a perfect NFL defensive tackle's body

Goldensilence
04-29-2010, 02:53 PM
Definitely a "bubble player" heading into training camp...

But some people believed Jacoby Jones was a bubble player last season when he turned the corner. So lets see if he performs to his potential.

I'm more interested in seeing whether Deljuan Robinson gets more PT personally.

Me too. Puzzled as to why he didn't get more reps last year.

thunderkyss
04-29-2010, 02:54 PM
wasted a perfect NFL defensive tackle's body

Even back in college, it's always been about his "want to"

If he ever gets the "want to" he'll be a monster.

I do agree, however, that we don't need to be waiting for it to show up. If it isn't there in TC.. and we need the spot.. nice knowin ya Frank.

badboy
04-29-2010, 02:57 PM
I disagree. The Texans think there is no need for a big Dt in this defensive scheme, but they have yet to convince me. They also think they're OK at FS and that Chris Myers is a good Center, so there you go.Same points I have made for three years but facts are;

Defensive line shut down the run with like 86 yards avg a game over last 13 years.

Free safety, how many TDs did they give up?
Chris Myers was not beaten out by our 3rd round pick who quite possibly could be a guard again this year. I have heard no great cry that Myers is to be replaced by Wade Smith. Not arguing just saying.

TexansFanatic
04-29-2010, 02:57 PM
wasted a perfect NFL defensive tackle's body

Some folks are strangely blessed with ill-fitted gifts. Big Frank just doesn't have the passion for the game his body was designed to play.

badboy
04-29-2010, 02:58 PM
Even back in college, it's always been about his "want to"

If he ever gets the "want to" he'll be a monster.

I do agree, however, that we don't need to be waiting for it to show up. If it isn't there in TC.. and we need the spot.. nice knowin ya Frank.But he will be an intimidating attorney.

HOU-TEX
04-29-2010, 02:58 PM
Even back in college, it's always been about his "want to"

If he ever gets the "want to" he'll be a monster.

I do agree, however, that we don't need to be waiting for it to show up. If it isn't there in TC.. and we need the spot.. nice knowin ya Frank.

I know, I went into last season expecting Okam to be a nice part of the rotation. Needless to say, my expectations were quickly extinguished.

The1ApplePie
04-29-2010, 02:59 PM
I remember that was was destined to be a top-10 pick his sophomore year when his fat ass stuffed LenDale and cost my Trojans the Title. Then, he just nose-dived into obscurity.

Hagar
04-29-2010, 03:01 PM
Don't expect him back. They gave away his #.I've been saying "Don't expect him back" for the past four years now. Somehow or another, he keeps popping up.

I disagree. The Texans think there is no need for a big Dt in this defensive scheme, but they have yet to convince me. They also think they're OK at FS and that Chris Myers is a good Center, so there you go.

I don't understand that either. They keep going with these small DL at the begining of the season; then, when it doesn't work (every freaken year) they bring back Jeff. Jeff isn't the biggest guy in the world but the dude's a little tank and seems to be the only one who can hold up against these big guards.

Truthfully, I was pissed when they didn't take the DT from Tenn - Dan Williams. What a steel that would have been.

Texecutioner
04-29-2010, 03:54 PM
Hopefully he's cut.

Big Poundcake
04-29-2010, 04:17 PM
I say keep him if he plays well in training camp.

CloakNNNdagger
04-29-2010, 04:50 PM
Remembering what Okam looked like going into preseason last year, I am reminded of the my mentor Cardiovascular surgeon's routine diet advice for such a condition. "If it tastes good, spit it out."

ObsiWan
04-29-2010, 06:15 PM
Remembering what Okam looked like going into preseason last year, I am reminded of the my mentor Cardiovascular surgeon's routine diet advice for such a condition. "If it tastes good, spit it out."

but salmon tastes good
:thinking:

CloakNNNdagger
04-29-2010, 06:49 PM
but salmon tastes good
:thinking:


Seems a little fishy to me.:)

gary
04-29-2010, 06:53 PM
Why don't the Texans offer Fank a life long supply of Big Mac's for better play?

awtysst
04-29-2010, 07:02 PM
Frank Okam does not appear to have a passion for the game. And there is nothing wrong with that. He is a smart guy and has a life for himself planned out post football.

Some people are meant to be football players and others are not. Brian Cushing eats, sleeps, and dreams about football. Cush's first big purchase was a hyperbolic chamber so he could recover quicker in order to PLAY football. I am not sure what else Cush has on his mind but football. In contrast, Okam has other things to consider.

I wish Big Frank the best of luck in future endeavors(and I am sure he will succeed) becuase as a football player, his future does not look too bright.

Insideop
04-29-2010, 09:10 PM
I think Earl Mitchell has already made him expendable. He could be cut unless Zgonina decides to hang it up or if he really proves himself.

Earl Mitchell is a 3 technique that will play behind (or maybe ahead of) Okoye. Okam is a NT and run stuffer (that's what he's supposed to be anyway). Cody and Robinson play the same position even though Cody is a bit light (310 lbs). I think Mitchell was brought in to replace Zgonina who was getting a "little long in the tooth."

There is another DT they got as an UDFA last year that I remember hearing good things about in last seasons TC named Josh Leonard. He is 6'3" 305 lbs out of Hawaii and he ended up on the PS. Not sure if he plays the Nose like Okam, but there should be some good depth at both DT spots.

Shaun Cody, 6'4 310 lbs
Josh Leonard, 6'3" 305 lbs
Frank Okam, 6'5" 338 lbs
DelJuan Robinson, 6'3" 320 lbs
Amobi Okoye, 6'2" 296 lbs
Earl Mitchell, 6'1" 294 lbs
Malcom Sheppard, 6'2" 280 lbs

CloakNNNdagger
04-29-2010, 10:11 PM
Earl Mitchell is a 3 technique that will play behind (or maybe ahead of) Okoye. Okam is a NT and run stuffer (that's what he's supposed to be anyway). Cody and Robinson play the same position even though Cody is a bit light (310 lbs). I think Mitchell was brought in to replace Zgonina who was getting a "little long in the tooth."

There is another DT they got as an UDFA last year that I remember hearing good things about in last seasons TC named Josh Leonard. He is 6'3" 305 lbs out of Hawaii and he ended up on the PS. Not sure if he plays the Nose like Okam, but there should be some good depth at both DT spots.

Shaun Cody, 6'4 310 lbs
Josh Leonard, 6'3" 305 lbs
Frank Okam, 6'5" 338 lbs
DelJuan Robinson, 6'3" 320 lbs
Amobi Okoye, 6'2" 296 lbs
Earl Mitchell, 6'1" 294 lbs
Malcom Sheppard, 6'2" 280 lbs

Leonard hung out at about 15 pounds lighter than 305. If I recollect, he was released last year by the Texans and picked up earlier this year by the Bucs.

Texan_Bill
04-29-2010, 10:21 PM
Leonard hung out at about 15 pounds lighter than 305. If I recollect, he was released last year by the Texans and picked up earlier this year by the Bucs.

I think that may be correct.

Tailgate
04-29-2010, 10:25 PM
I've been saying "Don't expect him back" for the past four years now. Somehow or another, he keeps popping up.



I don't understand that either. They keep going with these small DL at the begining of the season; then, when it doesn't work (every freaken year) they bring back Jeff. Jeff isn't the biggest guy in the world but the dude's a little tank and seems to be the only one who can hold up against these big guards.

Truthfully, I was pissed when they didn't take the DT from Tenn - Dan Williams. What a steel that would have been.


Hmm.... really? Jeff had his most active stat lines in the first part of the season last year.

The Texans were a top 5 D against the run for the last 13 games of the season last year. So not sure why we need a big run stuffing DT either? I would be curious to see if it did hurt us in the redzone near the goaline. The passing D is what needed the most work heading into the offseason. I guess the theory is that a big fat DT would free up Amobi more? Maybe he just needs someone breathing down his neck like Mitchell for him to get into gear, or Mitchell himself to provide the quick heat up the middle we sorely lack.

This team needed a CB much more than it did Dan Williams imo.

ChampionTexan
04-29-2010, 10:27 PM
Edit - brainfart.

JB
04-29-2010, 10:29 PM
Edit - brainfart.

nevermind then

wagonhed
04-29-2010, 11:00 PM
I absolutely deny that the categorization of "big run stuffing DT" vs. "quick pass rushing DT". Huge DTs ARE pass rushing DTs because they require blocks and free up the quick guys to get upfield. The idea that big guys stop the run and small guys rush the passer is simplistic and basically ridiculous imo. If that were an accurate representation of reality then that means the Jets, Steelers, and Vikings could replace Jenkins, Hampton, and Williams x2 with quick 295lbers and they should see their sack numbers go up.

Ugh. I'm just sick of seeing those terms thrown around.

Tailgate
04-30-2010, 12:01 AM
I absolutely deny that the categorization of "big run stuffing DT" vs. "quick pass rushing DT". Huge DTs ARE pass rushing DTs because they require blocks and free up the quick guys to get upfield. The idea that big guys stop the run and small guys rush the passer is simplistic and basically ridiculous imo. If that were an accurate representation of reality then that means the Jets, Steelers, and Vikings could replace Jenkins, Hampton, and Williams x2 with quick 295lbers and they should see their sack numbers go up.

Ugh. I'm just sick of seeing those terms thrown around.

Jenkins (jets only had 2 more sacks than us btw) and Hampton both play in a 3-4. So NO. Pat Williams is listed at 317, and Kevin Williams is listed at 311. Okoye is listed at 315. Warren Sapp was what... not too much over 300lbs? John Randle under 300? I hear what you are saying. And fine, space eaters, smaller quicker DTs... whatever makes you sleep better. But when Earl Mitchell's strengths are his quickness off the ball, his athleticism, and his play seems better suited for stunts,etc... and there is talk of him possibly being a 3rd down DT guy... then in my book, who gives a flip if he is labled a more "quick pass rushing DT."

barrett
04-30-2010, 03:49 AM
I'm more interested in seeing whether Deljuan Robinson gets more PT personally.

Me too. Puzzled as to why he didn't get more reps last year.


DO NOT get me started on this topic!

Insideop
04-30-2010, 05:04 AM
Jenkins (jets only had 2 more sacks than us btw) and Hampton both play in a 3-4. So NO. Pat Williams is listed at 317, and Kevin Williams is listed at 311. Okoye is listed at 315. Warren Sapp was what... not too much over 300lbs? John Randle under 300? I hear what you are saying. And fine, space eaters, smaller quicker DTs... whatever makes you sleep better. But when Earl Mitchell's strengths are his quickness off the ball, his athleticism, and his play seems better suited for stunts,etc... and there is talk of him possibly being a 3rd down DT guy... then in my book, who gives a flip if he is labled a more "quick pass rushing DT."

Who lists Okoye at 315? The Texans roster over at NFL.com lists him at 296.

thunderkyss
04-30-2010, 06:14 AM
Earl Mitchell is a 3 technique that will play behind (or maybe ahead of) Okoye.

I believe Mitchell will be used next to Okoye on passing downs, the way we move Antonio Smith down. I think he is here to get pressure on the QB, and help keep Antonio fresh on the outside.

DavidC
04-30-2010, 07:25 AM
My understanding was that on passing situations they would bring in Mitchell, slide Smith inside next to him, and have Mario and Barwin rushing from the outside. Okoye goes to the bench.

FWIW, I think Okoye still needs some time to develop into his body. Most players who were selected in the draft this year are 22 years old, which is the same as Okoye this year. It was a mistake for the Texans to select him in the first round when he was just 19 years old, but I believe he still has upside dependent upon his attitude toward working out and overall development of his body with age. Your body changes alot between 19 and 25, and most DT's don't become truly effective until 2-3 years in the league, when they are 24-25.

thunderkyss
04-30-2010, 07:57 AM
It was a mistake for the Texans to select him in the first round when he was just 19 years old, but I believe he still has upside dependent upon his attitude toward working out and overall development of his body with age.

I don't know about a mistake. It may have been a mistake to draft him, as you say, if the goal was to make an impact, and get to the play-offs in '08 or '09. But if the goal was for the long-term success for the Texans, then he'll be hitting his prime about now (maybe should have been last year), and he'll be an excellent player for years to come.

Of course, that means he has to start being that guy we thought he could be.

But my point is, it could have been part of the plan the whole time.

Tailgate
04-30-2010, 08:24 AM
Who lists Okoye at 315? The Texans roster over at NFL.com lists him at 296.

Both Espn and Cbssportsline...

DavidC
04-30-2010, 09:07 AM
I don't know about a mistake. It may have been a mistake to draft him, as you say, if the goal was to make an impact, and get to the play-offs in '08 or '09. But if the goal was for the long-term success for the Texans, then he'll be hitting his prime about now (maybe should have been last year), and he'll be an excellent player for years to come.

Of course, that means he has to start being that guy we thought he could be.

But my point is, it could have been part of the plan the whole time.

I agree, it may have been part of the plan the whole time. Let's hope this is the season he finally puts it together. I hate the idea that he may end up having to rotate out on passing situations. IF he can fire off the ball and control the point of attack, then our pass rush will be dramatically improved. He has been pushed around too much the first 3 years. Either way, I think bringing Mitchell in to push him was a great move, and should add some depth to an area of need.

badboy
04-30-2010, 09:53 AM
I just got an email on my work computer about 3 techniques and opened it thinking football but... it was 3 techniques to "effective email campaigns". Sigh.

The1ApplePie
04-30-2010, 10:07 AM
I don't know about a mistake. It may have been a mistake to draft him, as you say, if the goal was to make an impact, and get to the play-offs in '08 or '09. But if the goal was for the long-term success for the Texans, then he'll be hitting his prime about now (maybe should have been last year), and he'll be an excellent player for years to come.

Of course, that means he has to start being that guy we thought he could be.

But my point is, it could have been part of the plan the whole time.

Since I've been away, I'll ask this again

Are we still pretending Okoye isn't a huge bust?

steelbtexan
04-30-2010, 10:18 AM
Since I've been away, I'll ask this again

Are we still pretending Okoye isn't a huge bust?

This appears to be the case.

Lets hope Mitchell has a better work ethic and spends his offseason working out instead of trying to save the world.

MojoMan
04-30-2010, 10:50 AM
Since I've been away, I'll ask this again

Are we still pretending Okoye isn't a huge bust?

It is not yet clear that he is.

kiwitexansfan
04-30-2010, 11:09 AM
It is not yet clear that he is.

I think it all depends on your classification of bust. Has he made a huge impact as a pass rusher they hoped he was? NO.

But has he started a lot of games, contributed consistently, helped anchor what was a pretty effective run defense last year? YES.

I think he is not a bust, because he has started a lot and played solidly.

Has he changed the face of the team like a 1st round DT should, no, but that doesn't make him a bust.

MojoMan
04-30-2010, 11:13 AM
I think it all depends on your classification of bust. Has he made a huge impact as a pass rusher they hoped he was? NO.

But has he started a lot of games, contributed consistently, helped anchor what was a pretty effective run defense last year? YES.

I think he is not a bust, because he has started a lot and played solidly.

Has he changed the face of the team like a 1st round DT should, no, but that doesn't make him a bust.

Exactly right.

And why anyone would think Amobi Okoye has topped out in terms of potential growth and development is a complete mystery to me. The guy is 22 years old for crying out loud.

ObsiWan
04-30-2010, 11:39 AM
Exactly right.

And why anyone would think Amobi Okoye has topped out in terms of potential growth and development is a complete mystery to me. The guy is 22 years old for crying out loud.

I think that the common perception is that if you're drafted in the top ten (some think anywhere in the first round) and you don't make the pro bowl every year, then you're a "bust". I don't think that's fair, personally. I think the "bust" label should be branded upon those talking heads who over-hyped these youngsters in the first place. If a team gets a solid starter out of a first round pick then that's a successful pick - we all know even that doesn't always happen. Anything else is gravy.

thunderkyss
04-30-2010, 12:04 PM
Since I've been away, I'll ask this again

Are we still pretending Okoye isn't a huge bust?

Again, what were you expecting from him?

And just so we are on the same page, can you give me an example of someone at that position performing the way you think Okoye should be performing?

Were you expecting him to perform that way from day one? If not, how long did you think it would take for him to adjust to the NFL?

badboy
04-30-2010, 12:09 PM
If I am not mistaken this is the first high draft selection to offer Okoye competition and if it is; maybe it will boost his productivity. My recollection is Okoye played better at season's end as he was more healthy.