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Texans_Chick
04-28-2010, 01:12 PM
My write up at FanHouse

Dallas Cowboys Draft Board Revealed? (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/04/28/dallas-cowboys-draft-board-revealed/)

Video cameras came into the Cowboys war room and fans figured out what the Cowboys draft board looked like from the pictures.

ChampionTexan
04-28-2010, 01:30 PM
My write up at FanHouse

Dallas Cowboys Draft Board Revealed? (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/04/28/dallas-cowboys-draft-board-revealed/)

Video cameras came into the Cowboys war room and fans figured out what the Cowboys draft board looked like from the pictures.

Something tells me these kind of stories don't just happen on their own...

Same Story - Two years ago! (http://www.cowboysgab.com/2008/03/27/cowboys-db-draft-board-leaked/)

Dutchrudder
04-28-2010, 02:16 PM
Round 1
1. Sam Bradford
2. Gerald McCoy
3. Ndamakong Suh
4. Russell Okung
5. Trent Williams
6. Eric Berry
7. Rolando McClain
8. Joe Haden
9. CJ Spiller
10. Mike Iupati
11. Dez Bryant
12. Earl Thomas
13. Bryan Bulaga
14. Sean Lee
15. Jared Odrick
16. Jason Pierre-Paul
17. Derrick Morgan
18. Kyle Wilson
19. MaurkicePouncey
20. Navorro Bowman
21. Jahvid Best
22. Tyson Alualu
23. Jermaine Gresham

Round 2
1. Devin McCourty
2. Demaryius Thomas
3. Koa Misi
4. Jerry Hughes
5. Brandon Graham
6. Nate Allen
7. Morgan Burnett
8. Taylor Mays
9. Dan Williams
10. (covered name)
11. Kareem Jackson
12. Ryan Matthews
13. Brian Price
14. Rob Gronkowski
15. Brandon Ghee
16. Jimmy Clausen

Yep...

Ole Miss Texan
04-28-2010, 02:21 PM
Something tells me these kind of stories don't just happen on their own...

Same Story - Two years ago! (http://www.cowboysgab.com/2008/03/27/cowboys-db-draft-board-leaked/)

I was just going to say! Seems like this has happened before.

Ole Miss Texan
04-28-2010, 02:32 PM
Yep...
So in other words they had Kareem Jackson roughly rated as their 34th best prospect in the draft, 9th best DB and 4th best CB.

Take a look at where the had the RB's ranked: Mathews (2nd), Tate (4th).

Keep in mind this is relative to the Cowboys, their Schemes and their needs.

BigBull17
04-28-2010, 02:38 PM
So in other words they had Kareem Jackson roughly rated as their 34th best prospect in the draft, 9th best DB and 4th best CB.

Take a look at where the had the RB's ranked: Mathews (2nd), Tate (4th).

Keep in mind this is relative to the Cowboys, their Schemes and their needs.

This. I bet you there were 5 different CB's who were the top CB on a teams draft board.

thunderkyss
04-28-2010, 02:51 PM
Keep in mind this is relative to the Cowboys, their Schemes and their needs.

Not only that, it looks more like a mock draft, than a draft board. There is no way a pro draft board is going to have one line of continuity.

All that is telling me, is they thought those players would be gone at those spots. They had Houston taking Navarro Bowman, an OLB from Penn State. (who didn't get drafted till the 3rd, by a guy who knows LBs).

You can't tell me the Cowboys thought Sam Bradford was the best player in this draft.

Dutchrudder
04-28-2010, 02:52 PM
So in other words they had Kareem Jackson roughly rated as their 34th best prospect in the draft, 9th best DB and 4th best CB.

Take a look at where the had the RB's ranked: Mathews (2nd), Tate (4th).

Keep in mind this is relative to the Cowboys, their Schemes and their needs.

True, the Cowboys need help at Safety, not CB right now. I was just curious where Jackson went because I had never heard his name going in the 1st round to anyone during mock draft season. Still seems like a reach.

HoustonFrog
04-28-2010, 02:56 PM
The first line is definitely draft grades on players for their scheme. They admitted that they moved up to get Lee because he was that high...top 15.. on their board because he would be the new Brooking.

thunderkyss
04-28-2010, 03:37 PM
The first line is definitely draft grades on players for their scheme.

No way the Cowboys gave Sam Bradford the highest grade possible for their scheme.

Position wise, I think we can tell they have McCoy rated higher than Suh.. or that they thought Detroit rated McCoy higher than Suh.

infantrycak
04-28-2010, 03:59 PM
No way the Cowboys gave Sam Bradford the highest grade possible for their scheme.

That was the first thing that jumped out to me.

HoustonFrog
04-28-2010, 04:11 PM
No way the Cowboys gave Sam Bradford the highest grade possible for their scheme.

Position wise, I think we can tell they have McCoy rated higher than Suh.. or that they thought Detroit rated McCoy higher than Suh.

They have grades on every player there....every position. They grade out talent. The Cowboys had Lee in the first grade and Jones explained that it was why they moved up in the 2nd to get him. The obviously knew he wasn't going in the top 16 in the 1st because of his injury past. It is their personal draft grades

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=376F49DC-961E-7FF4-857147CF55DCE37F

By the end of Friday's second and third rounds, the Cowboys were glowing over their ability to get Penn State linebacker Sean Lee, a player that had projected as a Top 16 player on their own board. In fact, Jerry Jones said his primary goal for the second day of the draft was to make sure he moved up enough to get Lee, whom the club picked at No. 55 overall.


http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/4/26/1445433/cowboys-draft-2010-what-theyre

The Cowboys certainly think highly of their second-round selection, Sean Lee. Getting him with the 55th overall pick on Friday suggests great value considering Lee was a Top 16 player on their board.

Some may feel that the selection was based more on the team's projected value rather than filling a need. But with inside 'backer being a key ingredient to the Wade Phillips base 3-4 and the fact that veteran Keith Brooking will be 35 in October, it seems like now is a good time to inject some youth at the position.

Errant Hothy
04-28-2010, 04:31 PM
Does anybody really think that Jones' does not about camera placement and Hi-Def photography to let this happen? More then once?

Texans_Chick
04-29-2010, 09:47 PM
Something tells me these kind of stories don't just happen on their own...

Same Story - Two years ago! (http://www.cowboysgab.com/2008/03/27/cowboys-db-draft-board-leaked/)

If you read my story, you would see I wrote about it two years ago too. :barman:

thunderkyss
04-30-2010, 06:15 AM
The first line is definitely draft grades on players for their scheme. They admitted that they moved up to get Lee because he was that high...top 15.. on their board because he would be the new Brooking.



They have grades on every player there....every position. They grade out talent. The Cowboys had Lee in the first grade and Jones explained that it was why they moved up in the 2nd to get him. The obviously knew he wasn't going in the top 16 in the 1st because of his injury past. It is their personal draft grades

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=376F49DC-961E-7FF4-857147CF55DCE37F




http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/4/26/1445433/cowboys-draft-2010-what-theyre

I don't doubt every team has a grade for the majority, or nearly all the players in the draft. I don't believe that is reflected in the Cowboys Mock, which is the first line on the board.

Seņor Stan
04-30-2010, 08:12 AM
Sooooo....

If Dez Bryant had gone before the #24 pick would Dallas have stayed pat at #27 and selected Sean Lee and kept their #90 overall?

That would have had Navorro Bowman as their pick in the 2nd round, which would not have mane sense based on the pick of Sean Lee as a LB already in the 1st. That would have left them with Brandon Ghee in the second round who, ended up going very late in the supplemental part of the 3rd. That is unless their "covered name" in the 2nd was available.



They got lucky that Dez fell to them or their draft board would have blown up in their faces.

HoustonFrog
04-30-2010, 09:15 AM
Sooooo....

If Dez Bryant had gone before the #24 pick would Dallas have stayed pat at #27 and selected Sean Lee and kept their #90 overall?

That would have had Navorro Bowman as their pick in the 2nd round, which would not have mane sense based on the pick of Sean Lee as a LB already in the 1st. That would have left them with Brandon Ghee in the second round who, ended up going very late in the supplemental part of the 3rd. That is unless their "covered name" in the 2nd was available.



They got lucky that Dez fell to them or their draft board would have blown up in their faces.

I don't doubt every team has a grade for the majority, or nearly all the players in the draft. I don't believe that is reflected in the Cowboys Mock, which is the first line on the board.

That is extreme and not true. If Bryant went high then you target someone else or that is when you move back. Jones has moved back in a large amount of drafts. There were also guys that mocks had them taking at 27 that fell...Taylor Mays, etc. Alot of drafts had Mays as their guy. They could get him or move back. At that point they moved up to get Bryant. They probably had a spot where they decided hat direction they would go. There were still other players they could get out there....Wilson was also there at CB. They have 2 younger studs and Newman is getting old so might have gone for best talent. My bet, since safety and OT were high on their list is that if they didn't get Bryant they move back.

Thunder, I said their grading is the first line. Considering they told everyone Lee was Top 16 and he is on that list, what is there not to believe. Those are the guys, no matter position, that graded out Level 1 for them.

GP
04-30-2010, 09:36 AM
Does anybody really think that Jones' does not about camera placement and Hi-Def photography to let this happen? More then once?

Yeah, without reading all the write-ups on this...

I say this was all a bit of trickery. They know the cameras will show those images, and so they create a fake board in hopes that any other teams out there (who have their spies looking at stuff like that) will somehow buy into the rankings.

Just my two cents.

Seņor Stan
04-30-2010, 09:46 AM
That is extreme and not true. If Bryant went high then you target someone else or that is when you move back. Jones has moved back in a large amount of drafts. There were also guys that mocks had them taking at 27 that fell...Taylor Mays, etc. Alot of drafts had Mays as their guy. They could get him or move back. At that point they moved up to get Bryant. They probably had a spot where they decided hat direction they would go. There were still other players they could get out there....Wilson was also there at CB. They have 2 younger studs and Newman is getting old so might have gone for best talent. My bet, since safety and OT were high on their list is that if they didn't get Bryant they move back.

Thunder, I said their grading is the first line. Considering they told everyone Lee was Top 16 and he is on that list, what is there not to believe. Those are the guys, no matter position, that graded out Level 1 for them.


My point wasn't to criticize, but more to guess at what would / could have been. If they truly had Sean Lee at 14 then there would not be a reason for them to trade down out of that pick...Taylor Mays would not have been the choice in the 1st based off of their board.

I think they got a much better draft based off of their own board with Dez falling to them. They would have chosen Lee at #27 in the first vs. getting him at #55 in the 2nd. A clear win for the 'Boys value wise.

Makes me wonder what would have happened to the Texans if Mathews had made it to #20...Who would have been the pick for them in the 2nd round?

I don't know why I am so fascinated by seeing a peek behind the curtains of an NFL team's draft board. I guess it's because teams value different players so differently based on their own scouting and team philosophy.

HoustonFrog
04-30-2010, 09:56 AM
My point wasn't to criticize, but more to guess at what would / could have been. If they truly had Sean Lee at 14 then there would not be a reason for them to trade down out of that pick...Taylor Mays would not have been the choice in the 1st based off of their board.

I think they got a much better draft based off of their own board with Dez falling to them. They would have chosen Lee at #27 in the first vs. getting him at #55 in the 2nd. A clear win for the 'Boys value wise.

Makes me wonder what would have happened to the Texans if Mathews had made it to #20...Who would have been the pick for them in the 2nd round?

I don't know why I am so fascinated by seeing a peek behind the curtains of an NFL team's draft board. I guess it's because teams value different players so differently based on their own scouting and team philosophy.

I know you weren't criticizing, I was just trying to explain what they might have done if Dez was done, from what I read predraft in the DMN, etc. I think despite having Lee so high on their board..which many articles said they did...they might have known that most teams had him going in the 2nd because of his past injuries. So I am thinking they could have traded back and got him. Mays wasn't rated high but because of his fall I'm sure they though the same based on raw talent...that they could move back a little and take him since safety was a need.

What I liked from Jones this year was that he didn't do like last year. Last year they had 12 picks that they accumulated over the years from trading down and basically took 12 random guys hoping to hit on a few while some would be STers. He should have packaged picks and taken guys they wanted...there were some targeted that they didn't go after. This year he figured they had talent and instead of reaching they would go after THEIR guys and move up. We will see how it worked but I'd rather have 3 impact guys out of 6 then hoping 3 come out of 12.

HOU-TEX
04-30-2010, 10:01 AM
Who cares? :shrug:

leebigeztx
04-30-2010, 10:04 AM
True, the Cowboys need help at Safety, not CB right now. I was just curious where Jackson went because I had never heard his name going in the 1st round to anyone during mock draft season. Still seems like a reach.

Gil Brandt had jackson in the first rd easy. Maybe you need another draft source if you didn't know. The patriots was going to take jackson if the texans didn't. Once the texans took jackson, they sold their pick.

thunderkyss
04-30-2010, 03:59 PM
Thunder, I said their grading is the first line. Considering they told everyone Lee was Top 16 and he is on that list, what is there not to believe. Those are the guys, no matter position, that graded out Level 1 for them.

Maybe it's just semantics.
If that is how they graded players, as in that is their "draft board," I find it hard to believe the Cowboys (or anybody for that matter) would have Sam Bradford as the #1 rated player overall.

IMHO, a draft board should look more like Scout.com's where every player is graded and thrown on a list regardless what position, and regardless what a particular team needs.

But even Scout.com has Bradford ranked as the second highest player, so who knows... maybe the Cowboys did have Bradford as #1.

Dutchrudder
05-03-2010, 01:58 PM
Gil Brandt had jackson in the first rd easy. Maybe you need another draft source if you didn't know. The patriots was going to take jackson if the texans didn't. Once the texans took jackson, they sold their pick.

Got a source to back that up, or is this just pure speculation on your part?


The last few years the Pats have been in a "Trade First" mentality when drafting. Last year they could have had Clay Matthews, but instead traded him to Green Bay for 2nd and 3rd round picks. They could have had Dez Bryant, Kyle Wilson, Devin McCourty, Tim Tebow, etc etc at 23, but chose to trade back instead. There's no telling who they wanted, and I wouldn't put it past them to take Tebow at #26, but the Broncos snuck in at 25 and got him. McCourty was likely a backup option at that pick given the CB depth in this draft and the extra 2nd round picks they had stockpiled.

Ole Miss Texan
05-03-2010, 03:03 PM
Maybe it's just semantics.
If that is how they graded players, as in that is their "draft board," I find it hard to believe the Cowboys (or anybody for that matter) would have Sam Bradford as the #1 rated player overall.

IMHO, a draft board should look more like Scout.com's where every player is graded and thrown on a list regardless what position, and regardless what a particular team needs.

But even Scout.com has Bradford ranked as the second highest player, so who knows... maybe the Cowboys did have Bradford as #1.

I hear you loud and clear, but if when you hear some teams (or scouts) liked McCoy better than Suh as a prospect, some thought Berry was the best player in the draft... it's not too far out of the possibility to think Bradford was right up there.

The thing about QB's is that if a team (like Dallas) thinks that Sam Bradford is a Franchise Quarterback - they're invaluable. Looks like Dallas thought Bradford is a Franchise guy which makes him the most highly coveted player in the draft.

beerlover
05-03-2010, 03:30 PM
great find TC :texans chick:

as someone who is a certified draft geek, this is like opening a treasure chest, except the writing & content is such a poor representation of a Billion dollar industry/buisness that it makes me cringe & even more thankfull for Rick Smith, Gary Kubiak & the owner Bob McNair. I think several of us here could put together a better draft board than what the Cowboys came up with :cowboy1:

HoustonFrog
05-03-2010, 03:40 PM
great find TC :texans chick:

as someone who is a certified draft geek, this is like opening a treasure chest, except the writing & content is such a poor representation of a Billion dollar industry/buisness that it makes me cringe & even more thankfull for Rick Smith, Gary Kubiak & the owner Bob McNair. I think several of us here could put together a better draft board than what the Cowboys came up with :cowboy1:

Love your draft work but not sure how you got this from the article.

This same "rumor" was around 2 years ago. Not even sure they don't do this on purpose.

beerlover
05-03-2010, 03:51 PM
Love your draft work but not sure how you got this from the article.

This same "rumor" was around 2 years ago. Not even sure they don't do this on purpose.

I have a real hard time visualizing Bob McNair standing front & center over the draft board pointing out names he wants Rick Smith to choose :truck:

WWJD
05-03-2010, 03:55 PM
I have a real hard time visualizing Bob McNair standing front & center over the draft board pointing out names he wants Rick Smith to choose :truck:

That's because the Texans have a GM. Jerry is the GM and owner.

HoustonFrog
05-03-2010, 04:15 PM
That's because the Texans have a GM. Jerry is the GM and owner.

Beat me to it. He actually sits with the coaches and makes the picks. We might not like it sometimes but he is GM.

beerlover
05-03-2010, 04:18 PM
Beat me to it. He actually sits with the coaches and makes the picks. We might not like it sometimes but he is GM.

don't get me wrong, its awesome cause I know they will always fail :)

WWJD
05-03-2010, 04:21 PM
Beat me to it. He actually sits with the coaches and makes the picks. We might not like it sometimes but he is GM.

Yep. He said from day one he was going to be in charge. And he has been. Will be nice to see Stephen doing that one day. Actually this year on the very few interviews I did see during the draft Stephen was the one being interviewed. I can't recollect seeing Jerry at all. Guess he was working! Or pretending too anyway.

HoustonFrog
05-03-2010, 11:15 PM
don't get me wrong, its awesome cause I know they will always fail :)

Not always. 2008 is looking pretty good right now with Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins, Tashard Choice, Scandrick and Martellus Bennett. Allhave been big contributors

stingray
05-03-2010, 11:32 PM
True, the Cowboys need help at Safety, not CB right now. I was just curious where Jackson went because I had never heard his name going in the 1st round to anyone during mock draft season. Still seems like a reach.

Gil Brandt had him in the same tier group as Kyle Wilson. Many mock drafts including Rick Gosselin's had Jackson going in the first.

http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d817a77bc

(UP FROM TIER 4) Another cornerback coached by Nick Saban. Plays the run well and can play bump-and-run or off the receiver. Looks like former Cowboys great Everson Walls, who led the NFL in interceptions each of his first two seasons.


Gosselin had him going #25 to the Ravens in his final mock. Not a reach by any means.

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/042210dnspogoosemock.3cacf47.html

25. BALTIMORE RAVENS

Kareem Jackson, Cornerback, Alabama

The Ravens have always won with a physical brand of defense, and Jackson is the most physical corner in this draft. He goes from the No. 2-ranked defense in college to the No. 3-ranked defense in the NFL.

beerlover
05-04-2010, 06:15 AM
Not always. 2008 is looking pretty good right now with Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins, Tashard Choice, Scandrick and Martellus Bennett. Allhave been big contributors

The Z report likes this years draft, best in division too - http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2010_nfl_draft/
Obviously, the value on the Cowboys draft will ride primarily on the immature, but talented shoulders of Oklahoma State WR Dez Bryant. If Bryant can pull it together and grow up, then the Cowboys will have a steal and a No. 1 WR for years to come. If not, then remove the "best overall draft" acclaim from your memory banks. Penn State LB Sean Lee is a hard-nosed football player who has good instincts and an opportunity to eventually replace what Keith Brooking helped bring to the field last year. IUP defensive back Akwasi Owusu-Ansah is a terrific find in the 4th round and will almost assuredly be used as a free safety. Ansah's speed is better than you usually find at safety and he's got terrific upside if the jump in competition isn't too much for him.

Now if them boyz had stood pat & got Bryant then we're talking. But they didn't they just had to trade up & with New England (traded its first- (No. 24) and fourth-round (No. 119) picks to Dallas for the Cowboys' first- (No. 27) and third-round (No. 90) picks. Dallas later traded the No. 119 pick to Miami for No. 126 Akwasi & 6th No179 OT Sam Young of Notre Dame. Yeah they got Bryant but Bellichick got McCourty & Taylor Price who might actually have a better career than Bryant. I really don't think Dallas got the better end of the deal. Don't really understand this grade on Sean Lee, isn't he coming off a major injury, solid player if he's healthy but nothing to get your panties in a wad about. Of course they traded away their 3rd. Really like Akwasi but he is a developmental player, jury is out we'll have to see how he comes along, 4th is good value based on potential but impacting right away, don't see it other than special teams which is about right for a 4th rounder.

here is another solid draft guy, Nolan Nawrocki take - http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/04/26/draft-helps-nfc-west-get-stronger
Dallas Cowboys
Once Dez Bryant slipped into the 20s, Jerry Jones did not want to risk losing him to New England and traded up three spots to land the draft's most talented receiver. He traded up four spots again in the second to land a falling Sean Lee. They acquired an additional pick moving back seven spots in the fourth round and drafted a supremely gifted, small-school S Akwasi Owusu-Ansah. All three have starter-type traits and could turn out to be bargains where they were drafted, provided they stay healthy and Bryant stays motivated. OT Sam Young fits the Cowboys' O-line well. CB Jamar Wall and DL Sean Lissemore could battle for roster spots. There was some risk involved, but if Jones connects swinging for the fences, he could hit big.
Grade: B

HoustonFrog
05-04-2010, 09:08 AM
Beer, they love Lee because he is their "Cushing" type guy. He is a clone of Brooking, who is their vocal leader and makes plays. I think his injury was in 2008 and they say he doesn't even need the braces now but they have special ones anyways. Also, on Bryant....the guy was there in the 20s and they basically got a Top 5-10 graded out talent at 24. Considering the other options I loved it. Gosselin said he should be rookie of the year. I'm happy they went with an aggressive approach. Last year they had 12 picks and half were injured and some were special teams guys.

beerlover
05-04-2010, 01:40 PM
Beer, they love Lee because he is their "Cushing" type guy. He is a clone of Brooking, who is their vocal leader and makes plays. I think his injury was in 2008 and they say he doesn't even need the braces now but they have special ones anyways. Also, on Bryant....the guy was there in the 20s and they basically got a Top 5-10 graded out talent at 24. Considering the other options I loved it. Gosselin said he should be rookie of the year. I'm happy they went with an aggressive approach. Last year they had 12 picks and half were injured and some were special teams guys.

you proved my point. guess we'll just have to disagree on Bryant. If he was really a "Top 5-10 talent" he would have been selected in "Top 5-10" but real questions of concern dropped his draft stock, right or wrong. I'm proud to say predicted as such along with Awtysst in our mock draft
25. Baltimore Ravens - Dez Bryant, WR 6'2" 225
phenomenal talent stretching him to Jim Harbaugh. in his first two drafts he has taken a chance with Flacco, Ray Rice & Michael Oher. Bryant fits this trend & will flourish in this offense, posse & all

maybe the crack Dallas GM reads this board & deceided to trade up just ahead of the Ravens to get this guy, in that case I retract my statement, Jerry is at least a great poser :facepalm:

HoustonFrog
05-04-2010, 02:45 PM
you proved my point. guess we'll just have to disagree on Bryant. If he was really a "Top 5-10 talent" he would have been selected in "Top 5-10" but real questions of concern dropped his draft stock, right or wrong. I'm proud to say predicted as such along with Awtysst in our mock draft


maybe the crack Dallas GM reads this board & deceided to trade up just ahead of the Ravens to get this guy, in that case I retract my statement, Jerry is at least a great poser :facepalm:

I didn't prove your point. I pointed out one year in which, I agree, it looks bad but the jury is still out. 2 years ago it was one of the best drafts. This year we will see. He has his ups and downs but it isn't like this Owner and FO haven't had their bad moments. There have been plenty. Don't just have that slip your memory. I give JJ alot of grief but I have to give him his credit too. He has done alot right to go with the wrongs. They go hand and hand with the guy.

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 10:25 PM
you proved my point. guess we'll just have to disagree on Bryant. If he was really a "Top 5-10 talent" he would have been selected in "Top 5-10" but real questions of concern dropped his draft stock, right or wrong. I'm proud to say predicted as such along with Awtysst in our mock draft
:facepalm:

I agree. If we're going to call Dez Bryant a top 5-10 talent, when he wasn't selected in the top 5-10... we might as well call Okam a 1st rounder.

:facepalm:

JB
05-04-2010, 10:42 PM
I agree. If we're going to call Dez Bryant a top 5-10 talent, when he wasn't selected in the top 5-10... we might as well call Okam a 1st rounder.

:facepalm:

Not quite fair. Many of the national pundits had Bryant rated as the top WR in the draft and a top ten talent. If this draft would not have been one of the deepest in years, he would have been a top ten pick, imo.

Okam was a first round mind & talent combined wilth a 10th round desire.

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 10:52 PM
Not quite fair. Many of the national pundits had Bryant rated as the top WR in the draft and a top ten talent. If this draft would not have been one of the deepest in years, he would have been a top ten pick, imo.

Okam was a first round mind & talent combined wilth a 10th round desire.

& Dez Bryant is a top ten talent combined with a 24th overall (in a draft when Al Davis is more sane than Jerry Jones) maturity level.

JB
05-04-2010, 11:15 PM
& Dez Bryant is a top ten talent combined with a 24th overall (in a draft when Al Davis is more sane than Jerry Jones) maturity level.

Damn, that's scary right there!

HoustonFrog
05-05-2010, 08:54 AM
& Dez Bryant is a top ten talent combined with a 24th overall (in a draft when Al Davis is more sane than Jerry Jones) maturity level.

Again, you don't know his maturity level. The guy was suspended for hanging out with Deion. That's it. He was also late a few times. He had a tough upbringing. Gosselin, the #1 drafy guy out there, had him as the pick of the 1st round as far as value. It's not like they got some criminal or druggie or drinker who has been running from the law. It's like people just make stuff up.

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 09:24 AM
Again, you don't know his maturity level. The guy was suspended for hanging out with Deion. That's it. He was also late a few times. He had a tough upbringing. Gosselin, the #1 drafy guy out there, had him as the pick of the 1st round as far as value. It's not like they got some criminal or druggie or drinker who has been running from the law. It's like people just make stuff up.

The point is, whatever his issues were... NFL teams valued 24 players higher than than Dez Bryant, and whatever character issues there were, or weren't, it played a part. It doesn't matter what value Gosselin, or Kiper, or McShay puts on the guy. He's not a first round pick (Okam) if he wasn't drafted in the first round. He's not a top ten pick (Bryant) if he wasn't drafted in the top ten.

Blake
05-05-2010, 09:25 AM
Again, you don't know his maturity level. The guy was suspended for hanging out with Deion. That's it. He was also late a few times. He had a tough upbringing. Gosselin, the #1 drafy guy out there, had him as the pick of the 1st round as far as value. It's not like they got some criminal or druggie or drinker who has been running from the law. It's like people just make stuff up.

If I were you, I would be more worried about if he can read and comprehend a NFL playbook. This guy is dumb as rocks and I would be surprised if he can read at a 5th grade level.


One suggestion. You might want to tie his shoes in a knot and hang them around his neck so he doesn't forget them at an away game. Cause that would be embarrassing. /sarcasm.

HoustonFrog
05-05-2010, 10:16 AM
The point is, whatever his issues were... NFL teams valued 24 players higher than than Dez Bryant, and whatever character issues there were, or weren't, it played a part. It doesn't matter what value Gosselin, or Kiper, or McShay puts on the guy. He's not a first round pick (Okam) if he wasn't drafted in the first round. He's not a top ten pick (Bryant) if he wasn't drafted in the top ten.

And part of this is need and position. I'm just putting talent and where they were taken. Part of the drop was needs and part was random rep. I bet if NE snagged him..which they said they might..it would be "genius." Obviously he is the 24th guy taken but drafts have value for a reason.

WWJD
05-05-2010, 10:23 AM
He's got playmaker written all over him. I don't care if they took him 24th or 240th. Just make plays Dez.

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 10:36 AM
I agree. If we're going to call Dez Bryant a top 5-10 talent, when he wasn't selected in the top 5-10... we might as well call Okam a 1st rounder.

:facepalm:

This was my original reply.... I guess I got into a discussion, I really shouldn't have. But the point is the same. If Bryant turns out to be the play-maker they thought he was... it was a definite steal. But if he turns out to be just another receiver (which I don't think is the case) then he'll be more akin to Frank Okam. Another guy who graded as a first rounder, but because of other issues... no trouble of any kind... he was taken in the fifth (I think), looking back, that was about right.

beerlover
05-05-2010, 01:09 PM
Terrel Owens, Roy Williams, Pac-Man Jones, Dez Bryant the beat goes on :ant:

in other news if you think the Cowboys are just one or two players away why did they sign so many undrafted free agents, I mean whats the point? conversly the Texans have signed the fewest post draft (undrafted free agents).

Dallas Cowboys
PK Delbert Alvarado, South Florida
DT Junior Aumavae, Minnesota State
OT Will Barker, Virginia
S Barry Church, Toledo
C Phil Costa, Maryland
WR Rashaun Greer, Colorado State
FB Chris Gronkowski, Arizona
WR Terrell Hudgins, Elon
CB Bryan McCann, SMU
S Danny McCray, LSU
RB Lonyae Miller, Fresno State
QB Matt Nichols, Eastern Washington
TE Scott Sicko, New Hampshire
OG Chet Teofilo, California
OT Mike Tepper, California
TE Nick Tow-Arnett, Minnesota
WR Verran Tucker, California
DE Lorenzo Washington, Alabama

HoustonFrog
05-05-2010, 09:37 PM
Terrel Owens, Roy Williams, Pac-Man Jones, Dez Bryant the beat goes on :ant:

in other news if you think the Cowboys are just one or two players away why did they sign so many undrafted free agents, I mean whats the point? conversly the Texans have signed the fewest post draft (undrafted free agents).

If you are comparing all of those players then you really are a long ways off...a really long ways. All different situations. TO produced. He never got arrested or in trouble really. Did he wear out his welcome..sure. But he did it in SF and Philly too. Roy Williams....no trouble. Bad move for the picks but not a problem. Pac-Man Jones was trouble but he was given a short, incentive laced contract where they wasted no money. He was gone after his screw up. Dez Bryant is a good kid who has never been in trouble with the law, etc. He was late and hung out with Deion. Do we need to go through the bad FA moves and picks from around here too?No team is immune. All of those guys have nothing in common. You have to have more than that.

As far as UDFA. Your statement makes zero sense. You bring in guys for competition and for training camp bodies. Many teams do it. It has no bearing on a teams standings. Your either baiting or your arse is showing. Cleveland signed 1. The Super Bowl champs 14. The Chargers 20. Really?There is a correlation?

beerlover
05-05-2010, 10:53 PM
If you are comparing all of those players then you really are a long ways off...a really long ways. All different situations. TO produced. He never got arrested or in trouble really. Did he wear out his welcome..sure. But he did it in SF and Philly too. Roy Williams....no trouble. Bad move for the picks but not a problem. Pac-Man Jones was trouble but he was given a short, incentive laced contract where they wasted no money. He was gone after his screw up. Dez Bryant is a good kid who has never been in trouble with the law, etc. He was late and hung out with Deion. Do we need to go through the bad FA moves and picks from around here too?No team is immune. All of those guys have nothing in common. You have to have more than that.

As far as UDFA. Your statement makes zero sense. You bring in guys for competition and for training camp bodies. Many teams do it. It has no bearing on a teams standings. Your either baiting or your arse is showing. Cleveland signed 1. The Super Bowl champs 14. The Chargers 20. Really?There is a correlation?

Imperial Beer sounds interesting? maybe we have more in common there :toast2:

bottom line is I'm not buying how the Cowboys choose to operate. simple as that. they overspend, thats not a good buisness practice in general. they choose to be in the spotlight, having their war room televised, really, & the character of the teams make-up is 180 degree different than the Texans who despite lack of history or longevity appear to me at least to put things in proper prospective. Explain how this benefits the players or organization to sign a bunch of kids like its a big play on moneyball strength in numbers game who have close to zero shot making roster? I like the fact, the Texans signed a concise number @ need postions who actually have an outside chance. I'll track it, going to fun to revisit this thread in a couple years :texan:

HoustonFrog
05-05-2010, 11:08 PM
Imperial Beer sounds interesting? maybe we have more in common there :toast2:

bottom line is I'm not buying how the Cowboys choose to operate. simple as that. they overspend, thats not a good buisness practice in general. they choose to be in the spotlight, having their war room televised, really, & the character of the teams make-up is 180 degree different than the Texans who despite lack of history or longevity appear to me at least to put things in proper prospective. Explain how this benefits the players or organization to sign a bunch of kids like its a big play on moneyball strength in numbers game who have close to zero shot making roster? I like the fact, the Texans signed a concise number @ need postions who actually have an outside chance. I'll track it, going to fun to revisit this thread in a couple years :texan:

Imperial is the beer of Costa Rica. I like it alot! :)

First off they don't overspend. The Cowboys signed zero big FAs this year. Last year they signed Brooking and a few other pieces. It is a very big misconception. They aren't out there trying to buy up guys. So that is wrong. As far as the war room. They have had that with ESPN for over a decade. It isn't a big deal. Other teams have done it too. Go look at the UDFA list. Almost every team signed 10 or more guys. The Cowboys have had guys make the roster that were UDFAs. . The WR Ogletree is a great example. WWJD also reminded me that Miles Austin and Romo were UDFA also. It is how alot of teams do business. They target guys who fall in the draft and who can compete. The Texans aren't doing anything special. Again, I don't come here to rip the Texans. I've supported them. But you are acting like for their history that they are this model of excellence with FAs and drafts when that isn't true.

Have a good one!

WWJD
05-05-2010, 11:11 PM
Imperial Beer sounds interesting? maybe we have more in common there :toast2:

bottom line is I'm not buying how the Cowboys choose to operate. simple as that. they overspend, thats not a good buisness practice in general. they choose to be in the spotlight, having their war room televised, really, & the character of the teams make-up is 180 degree different than the Texans who despite lack of history or longevity appear to me at least to put things in proper prospective. Explain how this benefits the players or organization to sign a bunch of kids like its a big play on moneyball strength in numbers game who have close to zero shot making roster? I like the fact, the Texans signed a concise number @ need postions who actually have an outside chance. I'll track it, going to fun to revisit this thread in a couple years :texan:

Yea they choose to be in the spotlight! The Cowboys are a product. It's good for business. Money. Cha-ching!

beerlover
05-06-2010, 07:01 AM
Imperial is the beer of Costa Rica. I like it alot! :)


never tried it, which is saying something, so I checked a source I trust Beer Advocate - BA OVERALL
C
mediocre
w/ 106 Reviews

this seems like a pretty fair review - rallison ( Long Beach, California )

C / 2.95
look: 4 | smell: 2.5 | taste: 2.5 | feel: 3 | drink: 3.5
rDev: +2.4%

Bought and tasted in Costa Rica - compared side to side with Pilsen and Bavaria Gold.

A: All were fine for the style with good carbonation that produced a nice head. 4s all around.

S: Imperial had a strong cooked corn smell with other vegetal notes - 2.5. Pilsen had light vegetal notes but mostly a simple grainy aroma - 3.0. Bavaria had no discernable vegetal or off notes and had a simple grainy aroma.

T: Imperial was a touch harsh at the front with bitterness and hotness. Refreshing the rest of the way through. 2.5. Pilsen was simple throughout, but refreshing. Light bitterness. 3.0. Bavaria was the least bitter and had a touch more focus on bready malts (just barely). 3.5.

M: Imperial came on slightly strong but was otherwise fine. 3.0. Pilsen - 3.5. Bavaria - 3.5.

D: Given that these are meant for a hot Costa Rican day, they all drink well. I'll give a slight nod to Pilsen and Bavaria. Imperial - 3.5. Pilsen and Bavaria - 4.0.

Serving type: bottle

Reviewed on: 09-10-2009 03:35:39


why do I bring this up? because it tells me alot about the man who drinks it. hence gives me something to work with. key point is best drank on a hot day, thirst quenching. you like all things light, you prefer quanity over quality. you are easily refreshed/entertained. you don't trust anything that you can't see through. In summary as long as you feel good about things, that you received what was expected your OK with an average product.

First off they don't overspend. The Cowboys signed zero big FAs this year. Last year they signed Brooking and a few other pieces. It is a very big misconception. They aren't out there trying to buy up guys. So that is wrong. As far as the war room. They have had that with ESPN for over a decade. It isn't a big deal. Other teams have done it too. Go look at the UDFA list. Almost every team signed 10 or more guys. The Cowboys have had guys make the roster that were UDFAs. . The WR Ogletree is a great example. WWJD also reminded me that Miles Austin and Romo were UDFA also. It is how alot of teams do business. They target guys who fall in the draft and who can compete. The Texans aren't doing anything special. Again, I don't come here to rip the Texans. I've supported them. But you are acting like for their history that they are this model of excellence with FAs and drafts when that isn't true.

Have a good one!

The Texans transformation has not happened overnight, that's for sure its been very painful & dissapointing at times but yes they have turned the tables by first cutting ties with Capers then releasing Casserly into the wild. Kubiak inherited a mess, but didn't help matters by extending Carr one more year or made desperate free agent moves like Ahman Green. He finally turned the corner when Rick Smith stepped up his game & suggested a chance meeting with Matt Schaub. Then they moved defensive coordinators, elevating Frank Bush & drafting Brian Cushing . The Addition of Alex Gibbs along with his son David was some more cement for the foundation. Now young Shanahan has moved on & made way for a really good Offensive Coordinator in Dennison who adds stability/expereince before free agency & draft decisions made so he could input his two cents. Now the offesnive line is completely remade with above average depth, along with the LB's, DT's, CB's & RB's. Lets just compare the last two drafts to see excatly how they stack up.

Cowboys 2010

#24 Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma State -expected starter
# 55 Sean Lee LB Penn State -expected starter
# 126 Akwasi Owusu-Ansah DB Indiana (PA) -special teams, 3rd string CB
# 179 Sam Young T Notre Dame -2nd/3rd string OT
# 196 Jamar Wall DB Texas Tech -practice squad/special teams
# 234 Sean Lissemore DT William & Mary -practice squad/cut

cream at the top but after that all developmental

Cowboys 2009

# 69 Jason Williams LB Western Illinois -2nd string RILB
# 75 Robert Brewster T Ball State -no longer listed
# 101 Stephen McGee QB Texas A&M -3rd string
# 110 Victor Butler DE Oregon State -2nd string LOLB
# 120 Brandon Williams DE Texas Tech -3rd string LOLB
# 143 DeAngelo Smith DB Cincinnati -no longer listed
# 166 Michael Hamlin DB Clemson -starter FS
# 172 David Buehler K USC -starter PK
# 197 Stephen Hodge DB Texas Christian -3rd string ROLB
# 208 John Phillips TE Virginia -3rd string TE
# 227 Mike Mickens DB Cincinnati -no longer listed
# 229 Manuel Johnson WR Oklahoma -3rd string RWR

added alot of depth, two starters

Texans 2010

# 20 Kareem Jackson DB Alabama -expected starter RCB
# 58 Ben Tate RB Auburn -expected starter RB
# 81 Earl Mitchell DT Arizona -2nd string RDT
# 102 Darryl Sharpton LB Miami (FL) -2nd string WILL/special teams
# 118 Garrett Graham TE Wisconsin -3rd string TE/special teams
# 144 Sherrick McManis DB Northwestern - 3rd string either CB
# 187 Shelley Smith G Colorado State - 2nd string Center/OG
# 197 Trindon Holliday RB Louisiana State - expected starting KR
# 227 Dorin Dickerson TE Pittsburgh -2nd string LWR/special teams

three starters for starters as I'm thinking a couple more will become starters by seasons end (Sharpton/Smith)

Texans 2009

# 15 Brian Cushing LB USC -starter (Pro Bowl)# 46 Connor Barwin DE Cincinnati -2nd string RDE
# 77 Antoine Caldwell C Alabama -2nd string RG
# 112 Glover Quin DB New Mexico - starter LCB
# 122 Anthony Hill TE North Carolina State -3rd string TE
# 152 James Casey TE Rice -2nd string FB/special teams
# 188 Brice McCain DB Utah -2nd string RCB
# 223 Troy Nolan DB Arizona State -IR

two starters, rest (except for Nolan) fighting for starting positions, depth

HoustonFrog
05-06-2010, 09:28 AM
never tried it, which is saying something, so I checked a source I trust Beer Advocate -

this seems like a pretty fair review -

why do I bring this up? because it tells me alot about the man who drinks it. hence gives me something to work with. key point is best drank on a hot day, thirst quenching. you like all things light, you prefer quanity over quality. you are easily refreshed/entertained. you don't trust anything that you can't see through. In summary as long as you feel good about things, that you received what was expected your OK with an average product.



The Texans transformation has not happened overnight, that's for sure its been very painful & dissapointing at times but yes they have turned the tables by first cutting ties with Capers then releasing Casserly into the wild. Kubiak inherited a mess, but didn't help matters by extending Carr one more year or made desperate free agent moves like Ahman Green. He finally turned the corner when Rick Smith stepped up his game & suggested a chance meeting with Matt Schaub. Then they moved defensive coordinators, elevating Frank Bush & drafting Brian Cushing . The Addition of Alex Gibbs along with his son David was some more cement for the foundation. Now young Shanahan has moved on & made way for a really good Offensive Coordinator in Dennison who adds stability/expereince before free agency & draft decisions made so he could input his two cents. Now the offesnive line is completely remade with above average depth, along with the LB's, DT's, CB's & RB's. Lets just compare the last two drafts to see excatly how they stack up.

Cowboys 2010

#24 Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma State -expected starter
# 55 Sean Lee LB Penn State -expected starter
# 126 Akwasi Owusu-Ansah DB Indiana (PA) -special teams, 3rd string CB
# 179 Sam Young T Notre Dame -2nd/3rd string OT
# 196 Jamar Wall DB Texas Tech -practice squad/special teams
# 234 Sean Lissemore DT William & Mary -practice squad/cut

cream at the top but after that all developmental

Cowboys 2009

# 69 Jason Williams LB Western Illinois -2nd string RILB
# 75 Robert Brewster T Ball State -no longer listed
# 101 Stephen McGee QB Texas A&M -3rd string
# 110 Victor Butler DE Oregon State -2nd string LOLB
# 120 Brandon Williams DE Texas Tech -3rd string LOLB
# 143 DeAngelo Smith DB Cincinnati -no longer listed
# 166 Michael Hamlin DB Clemson -starter FS
# 172 David Buehler K USC -starter PK
# 197 Stephen Hodge DB Texas Christian -3rd string ROLB
# 208 John Phillips TE Virginia -3rd string TE
# 227 Mike Mickens DB Cincinnati -no longer listed
# 229 Manuel Johnson WR Oklahoma -3rd string RWR

added alot of depth, two starters

Texans 2010

# 20 Kareem Jackson DB Alabama -expected starter RCB
# 58 Ben Tate RB Auburn -expected starter RB
# 81 Earl Mitchell DT Arizona -2nd string RDT
# 102 Darryl Sharpton LB Miami (FL) -2nd string WILL/special teams
# 118 Garrett Graham TE Wisconsin -3rd string TE/special teams
# 144 Sherrick McManis DB Northwestern - 3rd string either CB
# 187 Shelley Smith G Colorado State - 2nd string Center/OG
# 197 Trindon Holliday RB Louisiana State - expected starting KR
# 227 Dorin Dickerson TE Pittsburgh -2nd string LWR/special teams

three starters for starters as I'm thinking a couple more will become starters by seasons end (Sharpton/Smith)

Texans 2009

# 15 Brian Cushing LB USC -starter (Pro Bowl)# 46 Connor Barwin DE Cincinnati -2nd string RDE
# 77 Antoine Caldwell C Alabama -2nd string RG
# 112 Glover Quin DB New Mexico - starter LCB
# 122 Anthony Hill TE North Carolina State -3rd string TE
# 152 James Casey TE Rice -2nd string FB/special teams
# 188 Brice McCain DB Utah -2nd string RCB
# 223 Troy Nolan DB Arizona State -IR

two starters, rest (except for Nolan) fighting for starting positions, depth

1) Imperial isn't a beer I drink everyday or every week. I've really only had it on two trips, despite it being at Specs. Both times were in Costa Rica. Once at an all inclusive with my wife where they served only that...mostly in Chelada form. The last time was this past early March when I was there for one of my best friends bachelor party. We had a house on a hill that was one of the nicest places I've been to and they we had all inclusive booze and beer. Again, Imperial it was since it is the national beer. When I got back I changed my thing on here.

Here is our place...so yes...it was refreshing from our infinity pool with swim up bar and bartender that dropped into another pool. :)

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4958/12296134860002892910491.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/12296134860002892910491.jpg/)

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3604/12296134860110895610491.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/i/12296134860110895610491.jpg/)

2) With only 2 years under the belt, those two draft observation are purely speculation. The 2009 draft for the Cowboys can't even be observed completely because of injuries. Brewster blew out a pec while lifting in July and was on IR for the year. 3 overall were on IR to start the season. Neither of these guys ever had injuries in college...Brewster, Hodges from TCU and Branson Williams from Tech. Victor Butler played in every game last year. So this is the year where we will see what happens.

Also, with this years draft. Many experts said that the ST/return guy to get who can later play safety was Akwasi Owusu-Ansah. Some had him as a steal for the Cowboys there because of his speed and what he could do later at DB/safety. I also wouldn't rule out Sean Lissemore. The guy has speed...was a track athlete who ran an 11.2 100 for his size.. and was also considered a great pick for the 7th round. He had predraft workouts with the NY teams. He is supposed to be like their last 7th rounder to succeed and make a PB, Jay Ratliff.

Again, teams sign UDFA for depth and because their draft boards had them ranked where they give them a shot. If you found guys like Austin, Romo and Ogletree, you would too. It's smart.

Most say that it takes 3 years to see where a draft went. If you look at 2008, that is where the Cowboys young talent comes from.

beerlover
05-06-2010, 01:28 PM
1) Imperial isn't a beer I drink everyday or every week. I've really only had it on two trips, despite it being at Specs. Both times were in Costa Rica. Once at an all inclusive with my wife where they served only that...mostly in Chelada form. The last time was this past early March when I was there for one of my best friends bachelor party. We had a house on a hill that was one of the nicest places I've been to and they we had all inclusive booze and beer. Again, Imperial it was since it is the national beer. When I got back I changes my thing on here.

Here is our place...so yes...it was refreshing from our infinity pool with swim up bar and bartender that dropped into another pool. :)

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4958/12296134860002892910491.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/12296134860002892910491.jpg/)

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3604/12296134860110895610491.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/i/12296134860110895610491.jpg/)

2) With only 2 years under the belt, those two draft observation are purely speculation. The 2009 draft for the Cowboys can't even be observed completely because of injuries. Brewster blew out a pec while lifting in July and was on IR for the year. 3 overall were on IR to start the season. Neither of these guys ever had injuries in college...Brewster, Hodges from TCU and Branson Williams from Tech. Victor Butler played in every game last year. So this is the year where we will see what happens.

Also, with this years draft. Many experts said that the ST/return guy to get who can later play safety was Akwasi Owusu-Ansah. Some had him as a steal for the Cowboys there because of his speed and what he could do later at DB/safety. I also wouldn't rule out Sean Lissemore. The guy has speed...was a teachk athlete who ran an 11.2 100 for his size.. and was also considered a great pick for the 7th round. He had predraft workouts with the NY teams. He is supposed to be like their last 7th rounder to succeed and make a PB, Jay Ratliff.

Again, teams sign UDFA for depth and because their draft boards had them ranked where they give them a shot. If you found guys like Austin, Romo and Ogletree, you would too. It's smart.

Most say that it takes 3 years to see where a draft went. If you look at 2008, that is where the Cowboys young talent comes from.

1. very nice. thanks for sharing that :drool:

2. Akwasi is a player many of us wanted to see drafted by the Texans. 4th rd. is excellent value as most thought he should be taken in the 3rd. Had surgery to repair his shoulder but still competed @ combine then ran that fast time @ Ohio States Pro-Day. really big for a CB, may be moved to safety but I think he can compete for Cowboys as returner.

3. you proved another point I have made repeatedly. nobody knows their own team better than fans of said team. I don't follow the Cowboys so I arrived with position ratings directly off impartial outside agency, ourlads depth chart. I do follow the draft & after the first few picks Cowboy drafts really get wild & crazy with a bunch of thier own projections, more power to them which also supports my theory they like to play numbers game & hope a couple transition to next level. the appeal to many of these types of players has to give them extra incentive to want to be on the famed Cowboys. this also makes it real hard to grade, so I'll give you that.

BL