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gtexan02
04-26-2010, 04:28 PM
For the last 3 years, Ive been harping on the importance of good safety play to NFL teams.

My points have centered around the following:

1. More sacks does not lead to more turnovers. Good defensive back play leads to more turnovers. Ive shown this statistically.

2. The most successful teams of the past few seasons have had stellar safety play. Winning and safety play correlates.


This year came and went, and again, no impact FS was drafted. At first I was upset, and then I realized why it had happened. Here are a few of my hypotheses:

1. Our biggest need this offseason was CB. We play a very difficult scheudle this season with a lot of pass happy teams. Starting a rookie CB along side a rookie FS is a recipe for disaster. You can get away with starting a rookie CB against teams like Indy if you use a veteran safety over the top as an insurance policy.

2. Eugene Wilson is coming along a lot better than we believe. If he played up to 100% of his ability, safety isn't such a glaring need for us. Maybe he's a lot healthier than we think.

3. The coaching staff has reason to be confident in development of Nolan, Barber, etc. Weve had good luck with 7th round picks in the past, so its not unprecedented that Nolan could have made progress and be in the works.

4. One of our current CBs is looking to switch to safety. Molden is 6-1 200+ pounds, and would make the best fit. Maybe its him.

5. The safeties we wanted in each round were chosen before us.
I wanted Earl Thomas in the 1st. He went at 14
In the second, I wanted Taylor Mays. He went 2 spots before us.
I like Major Wright in the 3rd, and he went right before us.
I have no explanation for Reshad Jones, who I also liked. He was there for us in the 5th, and we passed on him. We chose McMannis instead, who I had never heard of. Jones was supposed to go earlier, so maybe there was an issue there we didn't know about


Anyway, just some food for thought. The Texans may have been targeting a safety all along, but had them picked out from under them. Not willing to trade up 5-10 spots to secure the picks, they may just have not had any available. Better not to choose one who isnt oging to make a difference than reach for a project player just to draft a need

Goldensilence
04-26-2010, 04:33 PM
For the last 3 years, Ive been harping on the importance of good safety play to NFL teams.

My points have centered around the following:

1. More sacks does not lead to more turnovers. Good defensive back play leads to more turnovers. Ive shown this statistically.

2. The most successful teams of the past few seasons have had stellar safety play. Winning and safety play correlates.


This year came and went, and again, no impact FS was drafted. At first I was upset, and then I realized why it had happened. Here are a few of my hypotheses:

1. Our biggest need this offseason was CB. We play a very difficult scheudle this season with a lot of pass happy teams. Starting a rookie CB along side a rookie FS is a recipe for disaster. You can get away with starting a rookie CB against teams like Indy if you use a veteran safety over the top as an insurance policy.

2. Eugene Wilson is coming along a lot better than we believe. If he played up to 100% of his ability, safety isn't such a glaring need for us. Maybe he's a lot healthier than we think.

3. The coaching staff has reason to be confident in development of Nolan, Barber, etc. Weve had good luck with 7th round picks in the past, so its not unprecedented that Nolan could have made progress and be in the works.

4. One of our current CBs is looking to switch to safety. Molden is 6-1 200+ pounds, and would make the best fit. Maybe its him.

5. The safeties we wanted in each round were chosen before us.
I wanted Earl Thomas in the 1st. He went at 14
In the second, I wanted Taylor Mays. He went 2 spots before us.
I like Major Wright in the 3rd, and he went right before us.
I have no explanation for Reshad Jones, who I also liked. He was there for us in the 5th, and we passed on him. We chose McMannis instead, who I had never heard of. Jones was supposed to go earlier, so maybe there was an issue there we didn't know about


Anyway, just some food for thought. The Texans may have been targeting a safety all along, but had them picked out from under them. Not willing to trade up 5-10 spots to secure the picks, they may just have not had any available. Better not to choose one who isnt oging to make a difference than reach for a project player just to draft a need

First bolded statement. I think Wilson is a pitfall. I keep hearing if he can stay healthy, he hasn't been able to in several years now.

Second bolded part. Not sure how they can be confident in Nolan. He was injured and saw no real meaningful time last year. We've done good at other positions later in the draft but terrible with safety. Don't see that changing.

Third bolded statement. Totally agree. I think that despite what Kubiak is saying one of the CBs on this team are going to likely be looked at to ask to try and move over. Molden physically fits the part and is likely in danger of being cut. Bennett might be asked as well as a last ditch effort.

Dutchrudder
04-26-2010, 04:50 PM
Reason why not to draft a FS: Kubiak's son is an UDFA Safety out of Colorado State...

Hmmm....

Insideop
04-26-2010, 05:05 PM
With the overcrowded CB position I have to believe that at least one of them will move to FS, and Molden is the most likely IMO. They also picked up 2 Safeties after the draft (UDFA), Nick Polk and Aaron Webster. I don't expect either to be players right away, but they could be developed on the PS.

MojoMan
04-26-2010, 05:09 PM
It appears that the Texans 1) just ran out of draft picks and 2) are not in as bad a shape at this position as some people seem to think.

If all goes well, the Texans may finally be in a position of taking a FS early in next years draft. If one of the guys on their roster (probably Wilson or Barber) has not already solidified himself into the position, that is.

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2010, 05:12 PM
Reason why not to draft a FS: Kubiak's son is an UDFA Safety out of Colorado State...

Hmmm....

If he can play I wouldn't care

WolverineFan
04-26-2010, 07:39 PM
Well I thought Molden was going to be moved to FS whenever we drafted him and didn't we also draft Quin to play FS? He played well at CB last year so maybe he'll stay there, but I think at least one of our CB's will get looks at FS during camp.

beerlover
04-26-2010, 07:56 PM
rmartin65 & badboy discussed this with me early on so I will give you the same reasoning I gave them. the Texans like Dominique Barber along with Eugene Wilson that's a solid 1-2 (assuming both are healthy). If not by drafting a CB in the first round (gotta believe Kareem will earn the starting position in pre-season) Glover Quinn can easily bump down inside. he has the physcial presence, good in coverage & sound tackle technique in run support needed, so that's three deep, not to mention the rest here already.

thunderkyss
04-26-2010, 08:13 PM
So who is our back up SS?

Jackie Chiles
04-26-2010, 08:15 PM
So who is our back up SS?

Barber is the top backup at both spots. Troy Nolan is going to make the team as well I think and he is going to be 3rd string FS and SS.

The Pencil Neck
04-27-2010, 10:30 PM
So who is our back up SS?

Pollard is his own damned backup.

And if you don't like that, he'll knock the piss out of you.

brakos82
04-27-2010, 10:32 PM
Pollard is his own damned backup.

And if you don't like that, he'll knock the piss out of you.

:lol:

And you never know about Sharper coming to H-town..... :evil:

Texan_Bill
04-27-2010, 10:40 PM
Pollard is his own damned backup.

And if you don't like that, he'll knock the piss out of you.

This^^^^!! Repped.

As far as another Safety, Jeff Donaldson FTW! ;)

eriadoc
04-27-2010, 10:51 PM
Since we're listing potential reasons, I'm going to go ahead and throw out stupid. I mean, it's possible, right?

:stirpot:

bckey
04-27-2010, 11:11 PM
It appears that the Texans 1) just ran out of draft picks and 2) are not in as bad a shape at this position as some people seem to think.

The Texans didn't think they were in bad shape at ss last year until opposing running backs kept breaking off long td runs on us in preseason and the begining of the regular season. The Texans just got flat out lucky last year getting Pollard. Can you imagine the season they would have had without him? My point is the Texans were planning on playing the 2009 season with the crap they had at ss.

Eugene Wilson has missed so much football in the last 3 years that he just can't be counted on to complete a season. He is a bandaid at this point in his career. It baffles me why fs has been the arm pit of the defense going on 9 years. A really good fs can change games and it would go a long way to helping us finally break the stranglehold the colts have on the Texans and the division.

eriadoc
04-27-2010, 11:17 PM
The Texans didn't think they were in bad shape at ss last year until opposing running backs kept breaking off long td runs on us in preseason and the begining of the regular season. The Texans just got flat out lucky last year getting Pollard. Can you imagine the season they would have had without him? My point is the Texans were planning on playing the 2009 season with the crap they had at ss.

Eugene Wilson has missed so much football in the last 3 years that he just can't be counted on to complete a season. He is a bandaid at this point in his career. It baffles me why fs has been the arm pit of the defense going on 9 years. A really good fs can change games and it would go a long way to helping us finally break the stranglehold the colts have on the Texans and the division.

See, the interesting part about this is that the coaches profess to be comfortable with the situation at FS. They profess to be comfortable with the interior OL, despite the injuries that have befallen the team there. But get an injured TE or two and they stockpile the roster, citing concerns about injury.

Texan_Bill
04-27-2010, 11:22 PM
The Texans didn't think they were in bad shape at ss last year until opposing running backs kept breaking off long td runs on us in preseason and the begining of the regular season. The Texans just got flat out lucky last year getting Pollard. Can you imagine the season they would have had without him? My point is the Texans were planning on playing the 2009 season with the crap they had at ss.

Eugene Wilson has missed so much football in the last 3 years that he just can't be counted on to complete a season. He is a bandaid at this point in his career. It baffles me why fs has been the arm pit of the defense going on 9 years. A really good fs can change games and it would go a long way to helping us finally break the stranglehold the colts have on the Texans and the division.

My issue with this argumet is, where are the front seven? It's not a good thing when you have to rely on safeties making tackles. That said, it's nice to know they can, but if you are relying on them for that, there are much bigger issues.

bckey
04-27-2010, 11:36 PM
My issue with this argumet is, where are the front seven? It's not a good thing when you have to rely on safeties making tackles. That said, it's nice to know they can, but if you are relying on them for that, there are much bigger issues.

I agree with what you are saying. But there are always going to be times when a rb breaks through and those are the times when no matter who the Texans had back there they were caught out of position. Now when Pollard came along he starting knocking the piss outta some running backs.

beerlover
04-28-2010, 12:11 AM
I'm glad the Texans did not force the issue just to address the FS position. Darrell Stuckey in the 4th was the only one I was really interested in who was available when the Texans took Sharpton. I guess the value in Sharpton is his versatility, he is an everydown LB, a special teams leader & a physical downhill defensive playmaker. Stuckey selected 10 picks later (San Diego) was a much higher rated prospect in most books, would have fit right into Bushes scheme as well. But he's about it, without giving up some of the other picks or reaching too early for a Nate Allen or Morgan Burnett, of course would have had to trade up like San Diego did for Mathews to get Earl Thomas.

m5kwatts
04-28-2010, 12:40 AM
One thing with Eugene Wilson is he's a smart safety. I put a high value on that when facing Manning and other great quarterbacks. Do you know how bad Manning would tear apart one of those mid to late round safetys?

eriadoc
04-28-2010, 12:43 AM
One thing with Eugene Wilson is he's a smart safety. I put a high value on that when facing Manning and other great quarterbacks. Do you know how bad Manning would tear apart one of those mid to late round safetys?

In their rookie season? Or after they've had a couple years to learn the ropes behind Wilson?

One other thing that disturbs me about the Texans is that they never develop secondary players. Going back to Glenn Earl and CC Brown, and including the new regime's picks of Harrison and Barber. The CBs don't get any better here, either. Reeves didn't even hold down a starter's position last season most of the year, and Bennett busted out after his rookie year. So Quin is the latest rookie success story, but will he get any better?

A Texan
04-28-2010, 12:59 AM
I watched the draft special on Sunday night on Ch 13, where Bob Allen talked about the draft with Smith and Kubiak and Allen brought up the fact that some people were questioning why they had not picked any safeties and their reply was that they were satisfied with the safeties they already had and did not see it as an area of need.

TimeKiller
04-28-2010, 08:50 AM
I've said it about 300 times already but...since there is a thread about it....

I don't know how FS or FS depth is not a top 9 area of need on THIS team. Especially after CB, RB and DT get addressed.....damn I'd love to see a 4th spent on the back end.

thunderkyss
04-28-2010, 09:33 AM
I've said it about 300 times already but...since there is a thread about it....

I don't know how FS or FS depth is not a top 9 area of need on THIS team. Especially after CB, RB and DT get addressed.....damn I'd love to see a 4th spent on the back end.

Just because they didn't draft a guy with a 4th or later pick doesn't mean they don't see it as a need. It may mean they felt they could get a comparable talent as an UDFA.

I also agree that we've done a poor job of developing DBs... hopefully, that will change since we've picked up David Gibbs. He's only had a year to work. We've given him Brandon Harris (2007), Dominique Barber (2008) and Troy Nolan (2009).

I don't know if it's true, but did we take Aaron Webster from Cincinnati as an UDFA? and Nick Polk (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1115248)from Indiana?

Polk has the solid build of a strong safety, but the speed and athleticism to play a centerfielder role in the NFL. He has the distinction of being one of the few players in recent memory to be a regular starter at a skill position on both sides of the ball during his career.

As a redshirt freshman, Polk started nine games at wideout, catching 33 balls for 335 yards and a score. The following spring, however, coaches decided to use his physicality on defense, and he wound up starting every game at free safety (74 tackles, 2.5 for loss, two interceptions, five pass break-ups).

Knee injuries, including a season-ending torn ACL, limited him to seven starts in eight games as a junior (52 tackles, interception, two forced fumbles). He then started all but one game (concussion) in 2009, fighting through lingering shoulder and ankle injuries, making 53 tackles, intercepting two passes and breaking up four others.

Injuries have stunted Polk's growth as a player the past couple of seasons, and his inconsistent tackling is worrisome. His athleticism and upside, however, will have scouts pushing for their team to select him sometime on Saturday, the last day of the 2010 draft.

infantrycak
04-28-2010, 10:11 AM
In their rookie season? Or after they've had a couple years to learn the ropes behind Wilson?

One other thing that disturbs me about the Texans is that they never develop secondary players. Going back to Glenn Earl and CC Brown, and including the new regime's picks of Harrison and Barber. The CBs don't get any better here, either. Reeves didn't even hold down a starter's position last season most of the year, and Bennett busted out after his rookie year. So Quin is the latest rookie success story, but will he get any better?

We have just completed the first year under a new DB coach. Let's see how they develop now.

Rey
04-28-2010, 11:58 AM
The Texans didn't think they were in bad shape at ss last year until opposing running backs kept breaking off long td runs on us in preseason and the begining of the regular season. The Texans just got flat out lucky last year getting Pollard. Can you imagine the season they would have had without him? My point is the Texans were planning on playing the 2009 season with the crap they had at ss.

Eugene Wilson has missed so much football in the last 3 years that he just can't be counted on to complete a season. He is a bandaid at this point in his career. It baffles me why fs has been the arm pit of the defense going on 9 years. A really good fs can change games and it would go a long way to helping us finally break the stranglehold the colts have on the Texans and the division.

I think that was due to SS play as well as WLB play....

Adibi was not getting it done when he was originally given the starting nod...Zach Diles was a part of the cure as well...

xreadx
04-28-2010, 12:27 PM
For the last 3 years, Ive been harping on the importance of good safety play to NFL teams.

My points have centered around the following:

1. More sacks does not lead to more turnovers. Good defensive back play leads to more turnovers. Ive shown this statistically.

2. The most successful teams of the past few seasons have had stellar safety play. Winning and safety play correlates.


This year came and went, and again, no impact FS was drafted. At first I was upset, and then I realized why it had happened. Here are a few of my hypotheses:

1. Our biggest need this offseason was CB. We play a very difficult scheudle this season with a lot of pass happy teams. Starting a rookie CB along side a rookie FS is a recipe for disaster. You can get away with starting a rookie CB against teams like Indy if you use a veteran safety over the top as an insurance policy.

who is Darren Sharper

TimeKiller
04-28-2010, 12:49 PM
Just because they didn't draft a guy with a 4th or later pick doesn't mean they don't see it as a need. It may mean they felt they could get a comparable talent as an UDFA.
Dude, come on. The evidence is there. They don't draft them or they'll get a 6th or 7th round guy. They sign vets as stopgaps and lucked out picking up Pollard because of the Gibbs/Chiefs ties.

badboy
04-28-2010, 01:17 PM
I'm glad the Texans did not force the issue just to address the FS position. Darrell Stuckey in the 4th was the only one I was really interested in who was available when the Texans took Sharpton. I guess the value in Sharpton is his versatility, he is an everydown LB, a special teams leader & a physical downhill defensive playmaker. Stuckey selected 10 picks later (San Diego) was a much higher rated prospect in most books, would have fit right into Bushes scheme as well. But he's about it, without giving up some of the other picks or reaching too early for a Nate Allen or Morgan Burnett, of course would have had to trade up like San Diego did for Mathews to get Earl Thomas.We could have gotten Sharpton with our first in the 4th and my guys Owusu-Ansah(second 4th) and Robert Johnson (5th) would have looked pretty good to me.

Porky
04-28-2010, 01:44 PM
Let's face it guys. This regime just doesn't care about the position just like the previous regime thought a Tight End was what happened when someone cute bent over. OTOH, this regime loves TE's like they were candy at a kids party, while totally ignoring Safety.

As already pointed out, they lucked into Pollard who is a plus player but not all world. Wilson is servicable/decent with good range when healthy which happens about as often as me going to Tahiti. Both guys were scrap heap players who were waived from other teams, and both were lucked into more than some great plan. Behind the two starters they have the equivelent of 5 day old bread - moldy, smelly and something you want to throw away at the sight of it. Is THAT a great plan for a team wanting to make the playoffs I ask? If one of these guys goes down for any length of team, Barber and his merry band of clueless losers masquerading as legit NFL backups gets to have the teams fate in thier hands. Oh joy.

Their plan for safety's appears to be other teams sloppy seconds. Way to go Smithiak. :cool:

rmartin65
04-28-2010, 02:08 PM
There are some potential 1st round FS that I like in the upcoming draft...

he says, running from the thread

HuttoKarl
04-28-2010, 02:16 PM
Pollard is his own damned backup.

And if you don't like that, he'll knock the piss out of you.

You must make that into a t-shirt and send one to Bernard Pollard.

eriadoc
04-28-2010, 02:32 PM
Their plan for safety's appears to be other teams sloppy seconds. Way to go Smithiak. :cool:

I'm trying hard to ignore any post from you that involves sloppy seconds. Really, I am.

Porky
04-28-2010, 02:36 PM
I'm trying hard to ignore any post from you that involves sloppy seconds. Really, I am.

:slapfight: :penalty:

Goldensilence
04-28-2010, 02:50 PM
One thing with Eugene Wilson is he's a smart safety. I put a high value on that when facing Manning and other great quarterbacks. Do you know how bad Manning would tear apart one of those mid to late round safetys?

Smart? I can't vouch for that, but I can vouch that the guy can't stay healthy.

I would say I can't believe they're relying on Wilson to stay healthy this year, but that would be a lie.

As far as tearing apart late round safeties.... do we know how bad? Um well seeing as how we've tended to put late round safeties out there. Yes, yes we know all too well.

thunderkyss
04-28-2010, 02:54 PM
Dude, come on. The evidence is there. They don't draft them or they'll get a 6th or 7th round guy. They sign vets as stopgaps and lucked out picking up Pollard because of the Gibbs/Chiefs ties.

& we'd never use a 1st or 2nd on a RB either.... :kitten:

We could have gotten Sharpton with our first in the 4th and my guys Owusu-Ansah(second 4th) and Robert Johnson (5th) would have looked pretty good to me.

Can't argue with that.

thunderkyss
04-28-2010, 02:56 PM
I would say I can't believe they're relying on Wilson to stay healthy this year, but that would be a lie.


Either that, or they are feeling good about Barber/Nolan

Goldensilence
04-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Either that, or they are feeling good about Barber/Nolan

Same way they felt good about busing. Barber, and Ferguson to start last year?

Don't know how they could be real high on Nolan. For all purposes the guy is going to be a rookie coming into next year.

thunderkyss
04-28-2010, 03:29 PM
Don't know how they could be real high on Nolan. For all purposes the guy is going to be a rookie coming into next year.

kind of like anyone they could have drafted?? :kitten:

BigBull17
04-28-2010, 03:35 PM
kind of like anyone they could have drafted?? :kitten:

Burn

badboy
04-28-2010, 04:44 PM
There are some potential 1st round FS that I like in the upcoming draft...

he says, running from the threadNow that's a tease right there.

badboy
04-28-2010, 04:47 PM
Let's face it guys. This regime just doesn't care about the position just like the previous regime thought a Tight End was what happened when someone cute bent over. OTOH, this regime loves TE's like they were candy at a kids party, while totally ignoring Safety.

As already pointed out, they lucked into Pollard who is a plus player but not all world. Wilson is servicable/decent with good range when healthy which happens about as often as me going to Tahiti. Both guys were scrap heap players who were waived from other teams, and both were lucked into more than some great plan. Behind the two starters they have the equivelent of 5 day old bread - moldy, smelly and something you want to throw away at the sight of it. Is THAT a great plan for a team wanting to make the playoffs I ask? If one of these guys goes down for any length of team, Barber and his merry band of clueless losers masquerading as legit NFL backups gets to have the teams fate in thier hands. Oh joy.

Their plan for safety's appears to be other teams sloppy seconds. Way to go Smithiak. :cool:All good points, Porky, but hard to argue with how Pollard did compared to his cost and what next season's cost will be. We basically got a starter for peanuts for 2 years.

Goldensilence
04-28-2010, 04:53 PM
kind of like anyone they could have drafted?? :kitten:

Or we could've addressed it via FA this or last off-season?


Actually knowing the FO we'd go after another Busing type FS. Nevermind.

m5kwatts
04-29-2010, 02:42 AM
Has it occurred to anyone that the front office avoided FS because after Nate Allen came off the board there wasn't anyone who could step in and start now or down the line and that no one after Nate Allen presented an upgrade to Eugene Wilson? Why draft a 5th safety when you could add the best talent?

TimeKiller
04-29-2010, 09:11 AM
& we'd never use a 1st or 2nd on a RB either.... :kitten:

Pfft...what does that have to do with anything? The Texans have at least shown interest and willingness to spend on RB before: Slaton in the 3rd and supposed interest in D Williams/R Matthews in the 1sts. Next time this regime spends (or even thinks of spending) a 1st, 2nd or 3rd on a safety it will be the first time.

06 07 08 09 10
DE DT OL LB CB
LB QB QB DE RB
OL WR RB OL DT

The first 3 picks in every year of this regime includes: ZERO safeties and oddly enough, zero TEs. Other than those two (and at least TE gets addressed over and over and over in later rounds) every other position group has been addressed with a high round pick. If not for K Jack in their 5th(!) draft they would have not spent on the 2ndary at all in the first 3 rounds. From C.C./Earl to Demps/Ferguson to Pollard/Wilson they have used stop gap and band aid tactics to patch up safety and I've been sick of it for a while but now I'm absolutely floored. Counting on Wilson's health is unacceptable and if/when he goes out who is ACTUALLY going to be able to pick up slack? Barber is not good, even if he ended up looking better than god-****ing-awful. Busing is god-****ing-awful and Troy Nolan is about an afterthought if I ever had one. Lord, God Almighty help us if Pollard goes down.

Has it occurred to anyone that the front office avoided FS because after Nate Allen came off the board there wasn't anyone who could step in and start now or down the line and that no one after Nate Allen presented an upgrade to Eugene Wilson? Why draft a 5th safety when you could add the best talent?

Because you have no need for the best talent if the best talent ends up 6th on your depth chart where a safety, even if not BPA would likely sit right behind your current starter who has injury issues.

thunderkyss
04-29-2010, 09:35 AM
Pfft...what does that have to do with anything? The Texans have at least shown interest and willingness to spend on RB before: Slaton in the 3rd and supposed interest in D Williams/R Matthews in the 1sts. Next time this regime spends (or even thinks of spending) a 1st, 2nd or 3rd on a safety it will be the first time.

06 07 08 09 10
DE DT OL LB CB
LB QB QB DE RB
OL WR RB OL DT

The first 3 picks in every year of this regime includes: ZERO safeties and oddly enough, zero TEs. Other than those two (and at least TE gets addressed over and over and over in later rounds) every other position group has been addressed with a high round pick. If not for K Jack in their 5th(!) draft they would have not spent on the 2ndary at all in the first 3 rounds.

Uh... good points. Maybe... okay it's just silly to add the maybe at this point. Our front office don't value safeties.

I don't agree with your assessment of Barber & Nolan. I do trust Smithiak enough to believe if David Gibbs said he needed more than just bodies, they would have got him one. Not addressing Safety in this draft confirms what I saw, and that was Barber making improvements, and playing well to close the season. Going back and reading the reports on Nolan makes me believe he is part of their plan going forward, and we picked up 2 UDFA safeties.

I agree we messed up last year, and our Safeties at that time weren't good enough to start the season. But we are arguing about a future replacement for Eugene Wilson. If we were talking about getting someone who could replace Wilson now I could understand a week long conversation.

Major Wright
Chad Jones

Both FSs taken before our 3rd round pick. I'll be more than happy to watch them this year, to see what kind of impact they'll have on their perspective teams. No other safeties were taken in the third.

Darrell Stuckey

Chargers took him before our 4th round pick. He's the only safety taken between our 3rd and 4th round picks. I'll watch for him too. No safeties taken after our 4th round pick.

Cam Chancellor
Kendrick Lewis

were taken in the 5th round, before our pick. I really don't see the benefit of drafting a guy here to develop, if we've got 2 guys in development already, that we like. I also don't see the difference between drafting a developmental guy here or getting a couple of guys as UDFA. Their developmental guys.

El Tejano
04-29-2010, 09:39 AM
Can someone find out exactly how many games Pollard And E. Wilson played together last year?

ChampionTexan
04-29-2010, 09:43 AM
Can someone find out exactly how many games Pollard And E. Wilson played together last year?

Pollard joined the Texans before game 3, but didn't play/start until game 4. Pollard and Wilson both started games 4-10 (7 games together), and then Wilson was out injured games 11-16.

TimeKiller
04-29-2010, 11:51 AM
I don't agree with your assessment of Barber & Nolan. I do trust Smithiak enough to believe if David Gibbs said he needed more than just bodies, they would have got him one. Not addressing Safety in this draft confirms what I saw, and that was Barber making improvements, and playing well to close the season. Going back and reading the reports on Nolan makes me believe he is part of their plan going forward, and we picked up 2 UDFA safeties.

I agree we messed up last year, and our Safeties at that time weren't good enough to start the season. But we are arguing about a future replacement for Eugene Wilson. If we were talking about getting someone who could replace Wilson now I could understand a week long conversation.
We'll agree to disagree about Barber but Nolan...there is no assessment. He hasn't even been to a practice yet has he?

Wilson's time here is coming to an end, the thing about being a placeholder is that eventually someone takes that place from you. His replacement needs to be on the roster sooner than later because of his injury problem and age. Is it really Barber? That's the only player you can possibly consider.

I really don't see the benefit of drafting a guy here to develop, if we've got 2 guys in development already, that we like. I also don't see the difference between drafting a developmental guy here or getting a couple of guys as UDFA. Their developmental guys.
True.
Can someone find out exactly how many games Pollard And E. Wilson played together last year?
Pollard joined the Texans before game 3, but didn't play/start until game 4. Pollard and Wilson both started games 4-10 (7 games together), and then Wilson was out injured games 11-16.

Nice work. Double points if anyone feels like stat-ing it up to show their effectiveness together and Wilson's true impact (we know Pollard's). If not I'll do it later.

bckey
05-01-2010, 09:13 AM
These are the drafted safeties from the 2010 draft. I bolded the teams that took 2 safeties. Notice the top four teams that took a safety ended up drafting another one later. I think once Taylor Mays (who we wouldn't have drafted anyway)went ahead of the Texans that Morgan Burnett should have been targeted. The Texans would have had to move up 11 spots in the 3rd to get him costing them a te or a special teams player. If by chance Earl Mitchell was gone (which I doubt) when we picked then Geno Atkins was still there. I think we took cb too early because there was so much depth at that position in this draft that potential starting quality cb's were still going in the late rounds.

1-5 Kansas City Chiefs Berry, Eric
1-14 Seattle Seahawks Thomas, Earl
2-37 Philadelphia Eagles Allen, Nate
2-38 Cleveland Browns Ward, T. J.
2-49 San Francisco 49ers Mays, Taylor
3-71 Green Bay Packers Burnett, Morgan
3-75 Chicago Bears Wright, Major
3-76 New York Giants Jones, Chad
4-110 San Diego Chargers Stuckey, Darrell
5-133 Seattle Seahawks Chancellor, Kam
5-136 Kansas City Chiefs Lewis, Kendrick
5-148 Tennessee Titans Johnson, Robert
5-160 Cleveland Browns Asante, Larry
5-163 Miami Dolphins Jones, Reshad
6-171 Atlanta Falcons Schillinger, Shann
6-207 Tennessee Titans Rolle, Myron
7-210 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Grimm, Cody
7-244 Philadelphia Eagles Coleman, Kurt
7-251 Oakland Raiders Brown, Stevie

Second Honeymoon
05-01-2010, 10:23 AM
They screwed the pooch
no other way to explain it
failure to address FS and C is a travesty
their cavalier and spendthrift view on FA set this in motion
if they can lure sharper here they get mulligan

if building through the draft is our nodus operandi it would be nice to have someone who knows what the he'll they are doing
8 TE or converted TE in 4 drafts just shows some sort of TE fetish
can we address long neglected areas of need

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2010, 11:59 AM
They screwed the pooch
no other way to explain it
failure to address FS and C is a travesty
their cavalier and spendthrift view on FA set this in motion
if they can lure sharper here they get mulligan

if building through the draft is our nodus operandi it would be nice to have someone who knows what the he'll they are doing
8 TE or converted TE in 4 drafts just shows some sort of TE fetish
can we address long neglected areas of need

You could say that or you can look at a team like NO who just won a SB and see waht they did compared to their needs .

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-by-round-input:1/dt-tabs:dt-by-team/dt-by-team-input:no

Maddict5
05-01-2010, 12:50 PM
As already pointed out, they lucked into Pollard who is a plus player but not all world. Wilson is servicable/decent with good range when healthy which happens about as often as me going to Tahiti. Both guys were scrap heap players who were waived from other teams, and both were lucked into more than some great plan. Behind the two starters they have the equivelent of 5 day old bread - moldy, smelly and something you want to throw away at the sight of it. Is THAT a great plan for a team wanting to make the playoffs I ask? If one of these guys goes down for any length of team, Barber and his merry band of clueless losers masquerading as legit NFL backups gets to have the teams fate in thier hands. Oh joy.


why do people just ignore the fact that barber played well at the end of last yr? ya he made a couple f' ups earlier in the season but after his benching, he came back a much better player

beerlover
05-01-2010, 01:21 PM
current regime track record is legit when it comes to developing system safties. pretty sure they would use a higher draft pick if the player on the board fit their system & was at the top of their list. then again why use a draft pick when you can pluck off another roster on the cheap? Both Pollard & Wilson were 2nd rd. picks, have valued NFL experience & as such are starters.

Texans used a 5th on Brandon Harrison (07) that didn't work out. A 6th on Dominque Barber (08) who they really like & has flashed when healthy. And 7th on Troy Nolan who broke his leg before last season started.

My gut tells me if something bad happens to this position during the 2010 season, like it did to the RB's last year, the Texans draft board will reflect that early in the draft (UNC defensive back Deunta Williams) or they go after a premium free agent (depending on collective bargining agreement fallout).

Who knows how McManis develops? will he be used in nickle packages only or provide some FS depth? Glover Quinn could also step in immediately & help he has the cover & physical skill set to one heck of a FS if they so choose.

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2010, 02:21 PM
current regime track record is legit when it comes to developing system safties. pretty sure they would use a higher draft pick if the player on the board fit their system & was at the top of their list. then again why use a draft pick when you can pluck off another roster on the cheap? Both Pollard & Wilson were 2nd rd. picks, have valued NFL experience & as such are starters.

Texans used a 5th on Brandon Harrison (07) that didn't work out. A 6th on Dominque Barber (08) who they really like & has flashed when healthy. And 7th on Troy Nolan who broke his leg before last season started.

My gut tells me if something bad happens to this position during the 2010 season, like it did to the RB's last year, the Texans draft board will reflect that early in the draft (UNC defensive back Deunta Williams) or they go after a premium free agent (depending on collective bargining agreement fallout).

Who knows how McManis develops? will he be used in nickle packages only or provide some FS depth? Glover Quinn could also step in immediately & help he has the cover & physical skill set to one heck of a FS if they so choose.

To me , it's like furnishing your house . Are you gonna buy a coffee table first or a bed ? You look for a nice table on sale but your not going to pay a lot , you look for a sale . Do you look for a cheap bed , hell no , you want a bed that's comfortable .

The four things I think you have to have as a SB contending team .

1. QB ... bed
2. LT ... fridge
3. shutdown CB ... TV
4. pass rushing demon ... oven

beerlover
05-01-2010, 02:58 PM
To me , it's like furnishing your house . Are you gonna buy a coffee table first or a bed ? You look for a nice table on sale but your not going to pay a lot , you look for a sale . Do you look for a cheap bed , hell no , you want a bed that's comfortable .

The four things I think you have to have as a SB contending team .

1. QB ... bed
2. LT ... fridge
3. shutdown CB ... TV
4. pass rushing demon ... oven

the fridge doesn't do you any good if its empty ... beer ... rest of OL.

:wesmantexanfan:

steelbtexan
05-01-2010, 03:56 PM
I watched the draft special on Sunday night on Ch 13, where Bob Allen talked about the draft with Smith and Kubiak and Allen brought up the fact that some people were questioning why they had not picked any safeties and their reply was that they were satisfied with the safeties they already had and did not see it as an area of need.

Which makes me ? Smithiak's competence.

They are one injury away from having the same crap at the S position they had for the first 3 games last season.

Trading up using future draft picks and selecting Burnett or Wright in the 3rd rd. would've been the way to go. IMHO

LikeMike
05-01-2010, 04:03 PM
I think the team`s needs going into the draft were:

1.CB
2.HB
3.FS/DT/O-Line

Now they took care of the first two needs with their first 2 picks. After that they took the highest player on their list at a need position (face it, the potential starting FSs were gone when our 3d pick came up). After that you shouldn`t really strictyl draft for need, but for best player available that you have a use for. If there would`ve been a FS they really liked they`d taken him. But there wasn`t so they decided to go with LB depth (and potential starter), TE security, O-Line depth, more DB depth, Kick Return specialist and WR depth.

I too would`ve loved to get Thomas, Allen or Taylor Mays... but they weren`t availabe when we could`ve picked them.

And in the end, FS might not be that big of a need position that we think it is... but right now Im pretty sure we`ll adress FS early in next years draft.

steelbtexan
05-01-2010, 07:28 PM
Next year or the next year or the next year......

JB
05-01-2010, 07:43 PM
Next year or the next year or the next year......

I am sure that whenever the powers that be of the time think FS is an issue, it will be addressed. Our team has made steady progress and continues to add players. If they are comfortable with the Safety situation, then I will give it a chance. It's the first of March for God's sake. If this is not the time to be optimistic, then when? Surely you don;t enjoy being negative all the time.

ObsiWan
05-01-2010, 07:58 PM
I think the team`s needs going into the draft were:

1.CB
2.HB
3.FS/DT/O-Line

Now they took care of the first two needs with their first 2 picks. After that they took the highest player on their list at a need position (face it, the potential starting FSs were gone when our 3d pick came up). After that you shouldn`t really strictyl draft for need, but for best player available that you have a use for. If there would`ve been a FS they really liked they`d taken him. But there wasn`t so they decided to go with LB depth (and potential starter), TE security, O-Line depth, more DB depth, Kick Return specialist and WR depth.

I too would`ve loved to get Thomas, Allen or Taylor Mays... but they weren`t availabe when we could`ve picked them.

And in the end, FS might not be that big of a need position that we think it is... but right now Im pretty sure we`ll adress FS early in next years draft.

totally agree with this logic.
We had to replace Dunta with the first pick and due to the Slaton's issues (injury and fumbling) we had to address RB while quality ones were still available. Unless some of you think we should have gone FS instead of CB or RB in the first two rounds....?
Anyone??

CloakNNNdagger
05-01-2010, 08:12 PM
My issue with this argumet is, where are the front seven? It's not a good thing when you have to rely on safeties making tackles. That said, it's nice to know they can, but if you are relying on them for that, there are much bigger issues.

It's not a good thing that we had to rely on on the front seven for anything last year.:choke:

CloakNNNdagger
05-01-2010, 08:29 PM
PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/01/darren-sharper-could-be-signing-a-contract-soon/) is reporting that Darren Sharper is on the verge of signing with an "unknown" team.......probably Saints, Jets or the Jags........yeah, the Jags.

gary
05-01-2010, 08:39 PM
Please be the Texans.

steelbtexan
05-01-2010, 08:57 PM
Please be the Texans.

Not happening

Smithiak doesn't put a premium on vet leadership that comes from a winning background.

JB
05-01-2010, 09:01 PM
Not happening

Smithiak doesn't put a premium on vet leadership that comes from a winning background.

http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx307/TexanJB/smileys/bsflag.gif?t=1272762000

Sorry, but that came across like something from the jilted 15 year old

steelbtexan
05-01-2010, 10:18 PM
What?

Dont get it

They should've traded up in the 3rd rd and picked Burnett or Wright. But it's their team and to date Smithiak and the playoffs are just a dream.

Until they make the playoffs my opinion is more valid than the koolaid drinkers.

Dont get the 15 yr old remark. You must have experience in being jilted or something.

JB
05-01-2010, 10:22 PM
What?

Dont get it

They should've traded up in the 3rd rd and picked Burnett or Wright. But it's their team and to date Smithiak and the playoffs are just a dream.

Until they make the playoffs my opinion is more valid than the koolaid drinkers.

Dont get the 15 yr old remark. You must have experience in being jilted or something.

Just saying that you sound disappointed that they did not pick who you wanted. Like a 15 year old girl that got stood up for the prom. Nothing is ever good for you. You concentrate on the negatives that you have no control over, even if those in control don't agree with you. Gloom & Doom!
And yeah, I've been jilted lots

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2010, 10:33 PM
Just saying that you sound disappointed that they did not pick who you wanted. Like a 15 year old girl that got stood up for the prom. Nothing is ever good for you. You concentrate on the negatives that you have no control over, even if those in control don't agree with you. Gloom & Doom!
And yeah, I've been jilted lots

What is , if the DT gets an inside rush the FS becomes less of a factor Alex ?

steelbtexan
05-01-2010, 10:35 PM
Just saying that you sound disappointed that they did not pick who you wanted. Like a 15 year old girl that got stood up for the prom. Nothing is ever good for you. You concentrate on the negatives that you have no control over and never look past that.

And yeah, I've been jilted lots

Making the playoffs would be good enough for me.

Yes 8 yrs of losing will make a Texan fan look at the negative ponts in the organization. Or it should make Texan fans say Mr.McNair enough with the we're building from within(draft) rhetoric. It's time to prove it on the field.

Instead we get by golly everybody is doing a great job. Lets extend everybody.

Say I'm right and most of the board is wrong. What will it take for McNair to make major changes in the way this team drafts and aquires talent?

The only way to get change is to effect McNair's bottom line. But the marketing team on the Texans is so good this will ever happen.

JB
05-01-2010, 10:37 PM
You don't remember the Oilers of the 60's & 70's & 80's and 90's... do you?

steelbtexan
05-01-2010, 10:38 PM
What is , if the DT gets an inside rush the FS becomes less of a factor Alex ?


If one of the S get hurt

Alex I will take Busing/Ferguson/Barber for $2000.

Yuk

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2010, 10:42 PM
If one of the S get hurt

Alex I will take Busing/Ferguson/Barber for $2000.

Yuk

What is , they'll convert one of these young CBs for $3000 . I'm saying McMannus .

http://www.squampton.ca/uploaded_images/daily-double.jpg

CloakNNNdagger
05-01-2010, 10:44 PM
In some ways, I am left with the feeling that Smithiac/McNair are building this team as though this was still 2004, instead of building onto a "veteran" team.

Honoring Earl 34
05-01-2010, 10:49 PM
In some ways, I am left with the feeling that Smithiac/McNair are building this team as though this was still 2004, instead of building onto a "veteran" team.

Hopefully their putting the final touches on a core that'll go on a playoff run for years . Maybe the last piece will be the endangered speices the freeanderthal saftieous .

steelbtexan
05-01-2010, 11:12 PM
You don't remember the Oilers of the 60's & 70's & 80's and 90's... do you?

Yes I do and the Texans of the 2000's are begining to remind me alot of those Oilers you speak of.

I just dont believe that the Texans do everything they can to put the best team on the field as possible. Many may disagree with this statement but 8 yrs of no playoffs have led me to believe this.

The Texans are more about marketing and PR than putting the best team on the field as possible.

You have to be a certian type of player to play for the Texans. This type of clean cut guy is great for PR but you cant win a championship with a team full of them. IMHO

an example of this is the Jets giving up a 5th for SB MVP Holmes. If the Texans had done this deal Schaub would've had another dangerous weapon to work with. Instead they chose to re-sign Walter and draft Holliday and Dickerson. Those are draft picks that could've been used to trade up and draft a FS. Why didn't they do the deal to get Holmes? Because he doesn't fit the Texans image.

I'm a Schaub fan but if the Steelers offered Roethlisberger for him I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Ben is a 2 time SB winning QB. Who is more durable and has a stronger arm. The Texans wont do this deal because of image.

Would you have a couple of unsavory guys on the team if it meant winning a championship? Many on this MB wouldn't be willing to make this tradeoff. I would that's the difference.

I will continue to question Smithiak until they put a consistent winner on the field. I dont really care who they draft/FA. I have a different philosophy than they do on what it takes to build a winning team. But I just want them to start making the playoffs and I really dont see it happening this year.

I hope I'm wrong.

steelbtexan
05-01-2010, 11:15 PM
In some ways, I am left with the feeling that Smithiac/McNair are building this team as though this was still 2004, instead of building onto a "veteran" team.

I wrote a long post and you were able to say what I was trying to say in one sentence. Amazing!!!! LOL

JB
05-01-2010, 11:22 PM
Yes I do and the Texans of the 2000's are begining to remind me alot of those Oilers you speak of.

I just dont believe that the Texans do everything they can to put the best team on the field as possible. Many may disagree with this statement but 8 yrs of no playoffs have led me to believe this.

The Texans are more about marketing and PR than putting the best team on the field as possible.

You have to be a certian type of player to play for the Texans. This type of clean cut guy is great for PR but you cant win a championship with a team full of them. IMHO

an example of this is the Jets giving up a 5th for SB MVP Holmes. If the Texans had done this deal Schaub would've had another dangerous weapon to work with. Instead they chose to re-sign Walter and draft Holliday and Dickerson. Those are draft picks that could've been used to trade up and draft a FS. Why didn't they do the deal to get Holmes? Because he doesn't fit the Texans image.

I'm a Schaub fan but if the Steelers offered Roethlisberger for him I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Ben is a 2 time SB winning QB. Who is more durable and has a stronger arm. The Texans wont do this deal because of image.

Would you have a couple of unsavory guys on the team if it meant winning a championship? Many on this MB wouldn't be willing to make this tradeoff. I would that's the difference.

I will continue to question Smithiak until they put a consistent winner on the field. I dont really care who they draft/FA. I have a different philosophy than they do on what it takes to build a winning team. But I just want them to start making the playoffs and I really dont see it happening this year.

I hope I'm wrong.

OK. We'll have to agree to disagree. I do not want a team that is built to win this year. And I believe that Smithiak knows a whole lot more about building a team than I do. But, you are obviously more football smart than I am and are sure you could do better. I just question your belief that because they did not sign someone, that they made no effort. Hell, I don't even know if they were interested because the media coverage of the Texans suck!

steelbtexan
05-01-2010, 11:29 PM
OK. We'll have to agree to disagree. I do not want a team that is built to win this year. And I believe that Smithiak knows a whole lot more about building a team than I do. But, you are obviously more football smart than I am and are sure you could do better. I just question your belief that because they did not sign someone, that they made no effort. Hell, I don't even know if they were interested because the media coverage of the Texans suck!

Agreed

I dont think that I can do better. I just question their committment to doing everything they can to put the best product on the field as possible.

The media coverage is terrible.

Steph and LZ do a better job than the beat writers.

JB
05-01-2010, 11:31 PM
Agreed

I dont think that I can do better. I just question their committment to doing everything they can to put the best product on the field as possible.

The media coverage is terrible.

Steph and LZ do a better job than the beat writers.

We can certainly agree on that statement!

Ole Miss Texan
05-02-2010, 12:35 AM
We have yet to see how Holmes does in NY so you can't really use that as a negative against the Texans. And the guy seems like a dipsh*t so I'm glad we have Walter and Graham over him.

I think Schaub is one of the elite QB's in the league, given he stays healthy. That's definitely a valid concern. He showed his toughness last year but we need to see that again. Each year. Especially to make the playoffs. The coaches are committed to this system and I'll take Schaub on our team over Big Ben.

dalemurphy
05-02-2010, 12:47 AM
Making the playoffs would be good enough for me.

Yes 8 yrs of losing will make a Texan fan look at the negative ponts in the organization. Or it should make Texan fans say Mr.McNair enough with the we're building from within(draft) rhetoric. It's time to prove it on the field.

Instead we get by golly everybody is doing a great job. Lets extend everybody.

Say I'm right and most of the board is wrong. What will it take for McNair to make major changes in the way this team drafts and aquires talent?

The only way to get change is to effect McNair's bottom line. But the marketing team on the Texans is so good this will ever happen.


The first 4 years, the organization operated entirely differently than it does now. They went after elite veteran talent and actually built a pretty decent defense with a bunch of veterans: GWalker, Payne, Sharper, Glenn, Coleman, McCree, Eric Brown and they were throwing huge contracts at guys like Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Zac Weigart... Heck, they even tried to trade draft picks for Orlando Pace, not to mention giving up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for Phillip Buchanan.

The result was an old, injury-prone, lazy football team that was really bad by 2006. Kubiak and company came in and are committed to almost the opposite philosophy. One can argue that the 180% change is a little too reactionary, but let's not act like we've seen 8 years of it... try 4. And, by the way, these 4 years were a heck of a lot more successful than the first 4. So, I'm not sure why you are so adamant that they go back to doing business that way?

JCTexan
05-02-2010, 12:48 AM
Making the playoffs would be good enough for me.



I'm a Schaub fan but if the Steelers offered Roethlisberger for him I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Ben is a 2 time SB winning QB. Who is more durable and has a stronger arm. The Texans wont do this deal because of image.


You say playoffs are good enough for you, but you mention trading Schaub for Roethlisberger which would ruin every chance Houston would have at making the playoffs this year. Big Ben is suspended for six games. Are you sure about doing this trade?

JB
05-02-2010, 12:51 AM
This has turned into a really funny thread. How did we go from not drafting a free safety to McNair sucks? Wait... never mind. We have already done this 34 times

brakos82
05-02-2010, 01:11 AM
This has turned into a really funny thread. How did we go from not drafting a free safety to McNair sucks? Wait... never mind. We have already done this 34 times

Where's the Tate thread? :photos:

thunderkyss
05-02-2010, 08:44 AM
I'm a Schaub fan but if the Steelers offered Roethlisberger for him I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Ben is a 2 time SB winning QB. Who is more durable and has a stronger arm. The Texans wont do this deal because of image.

I think you spend too much time looking at the past. I don't doubt Big Ben is a more accomplished QB now, but no way I'd trade Schaub for Ben, and I'm not a "big" Schaub fan. Ben has a bigger arm, he's more athletic but I think Schaub is much better in terms of accuracy, decision making, and managing an offense, and reading a defense.

Would you have a couple of unsavory guys on the team if it meant winning a championship? Many on this MB wouldn't be willing to make this tradeoff. I would that's the difference.

That's a loaded question.

Would you have a team of high character guys if it meant 3 Championships in the next 5 years?

Having dumbasses on your team does not guarantee a Super Bowl appearance. How many play-offs has the Redskins been to with their $100 million DT? How has Cincinnati done in the last 5 years? How far did Pac-Man get the Cowboys?



I will continue to question Smithiak until they put a consistent winner on the field. I dont really care who they draft/FA. I have a different philosophy than they do on what it takes to build a winning team. But I just want them to start making the playoffs and I really dont see it happening this year.

I hope I'm wrong.

Because we didn't draft a FS? This team will make it to the play-offs, and win. Why?

Because Kubiak has kept this offense consistently in the best of class since he's been here, and Frank Bush improved our defense tremendously in only one year. Brian Cushing, & Demeco are going to be monsters in this system for a second year (both going to the Pro Bowl), & opposing QBs won't have to place to throw the ball, if Kareem is as ready as Kubiak/Smith says he is, and Quinn improves on his first year.

HJam72
05-02-2010, 10:00 AM
I think every coaching regime has it's strengths and its weaknesses. We had a defensive-minded HC and a regime that at least for a while built a good D, but spent too much on free agent D players. Now we have an O-minded HC and a regime that, while not overspending or ignoring the D in drafts, tends to show a lack of enthusiasm in particular for high quality, ball-hawking free safeties while getting a little nutso over TEs in the draft. It's enough to drive me crazy, but I have to admit that every team (presuming a salary cap) is going to have a weakness somewhere in general throughout its coaching regime.

I don't like not having a top-notch FS, a center who never gets back-flattened, or (I think) bigger DTs; but, I just bet this team keeps getting better. Heck, with an O-HC, we're lucky he saw a need to even spend a high pick on CB this year. Lot of us weren't too sure he spend anything for a RB either. We all focus hard on wanting to see some playoff games very soon and maybe even some playoff wins; but, let's face it: what this team really needs is to be REALLY good right about the time Manning starts getting somewhat-age-related injuries.

Having said all that, I'd have been a lot more impressed if we'd gotten somebody like Darrell Revis (I'm just assuming that he's turned out well) a few years back and then gotten one of the best FSs in the draft with our 1st round pick this year. THAT would have me singing praises.

PS-can we get one of those old Oiler safeties out of retirement, just in case Pollard ever gets injured.

bckey
05-02-2010, 10:20 AM
PS-can we get one of those old Oiler safeties out of retirement, just in case Pollard ever gets injured.

Blaine Bishop. Make em pay!

thunderkyss
05-02-2010, 10:52 AM
Heck, with an O-HC, we're lucky he saw a need to even spend a high pick on CB this year.

Having said all that, I'd have been a lot more impressed if we'd gotten somebody like Darrell Revis (I'm just assuming that he's turned out well) a few years back...

I've been wanting a starting corner from the draft since '07. I didn't know who Revis was at the time, but he would have done nicely (as he has proven to be one of the league's best).

I can understand the desire for a FS... what I don't understand is this "we didn't draft a starting safety, all is doomed" attitude. & for the most part, we're upset we didn't draft a safety in the third, who would have most likely been a developmental/depth guy anyway.

ObsiWan
05-02-2010, 11:10 AM
Making the playoffs would be good enough for me.

Yes 8 yrs of losing will make a Texan fan look at the negative points in the organization. Or it should make Texan fans say Mr.McNair enough with the we're building from within(draft) rhetoric. It's time to prove it on the field.



Now, now; don't be a revisionist historian. We haven't had a losing record in three years.

ObsiWan
05-02-2010, 11:32 AM
Would you have a couple of unsavory guys on the team if it meant winning a championship? Many on this MB wouldn't be willing to make this tradeoff. I would that's the difference.


No. You may as well ask me if I would be okay with stealing if it meant I'd make a few extra bucks.

Second Honeymoon
05-02-2010, 11:39 AM
The first 4 years, the organization operated entirely differently than it does now. They went after elite veteran talent and actually built a pretty decent defense with a bunch of veterans: GWalker, Payne, Sharper, Glenn, Coleman, McCree, Eric Brown and they were throwing huge contracts at guys like Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Zac Weigart... Heck, they even tried to trade draft picks for Orlando Pace, not to mention giving up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for Phillip Buchanan.

The result was an old, injury-prone, lazy football team that was really bad by 2006. Kubiak and company came in and are committed to almost the opposite philosophy. One can argue that the 180% change is a little too reactionary, but let's not act like we've seen 8 years of it... try 4. And, by the way, these 4 years were a heck of a lot more successful than the first 4. So, I'm not sure why you are so adamant that they go back to doing business that way?

Those would have been good football teams if not for a pathetic QB that had every excuse made for him in the world. They were building a good team early but the development got retarded by Carr's being a pile of dog crap and with a few bad drafts/trades.

bckey
05-02-2010, 12:19 PM
I'm fine with Kareem Jackson. Imho the Texans could have addressed cb later because it was a really deep class this year. I would have taken Dan Williams at 20. Ben Tate in the 2nd. Trade up with Baltimore to get Morgan Burnett by giving them our 2nd 4th rounder. The points are right and Baltimore would probably still get their TE and pick up an extra 4th. I think Ozzie would have done it. Then in the 4th take Akwasi Owusu-Ansah. 5th I get Mitch Petrus. 6th Dorin Dickerson and the 7th Donovan Warren.

1-Dan Williams DT
2-Ben Tate RB
3-Morgan Burnett FS
4-Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB
5-Mitch Petrus OG
6-Dorin Dickerson TE/WR
7-Donovan Warren CB

Sign as many tight ends as you want that went undrafted.

dalemurphy
05-02-2010, 12:44 PM
Those would have been good football teams if not for a pathetic QB that had every excuse made for him in the world. They were building a good team early but the development got retarded by Carr's being a pile of dog crap and with a few bad drafts/trades.

They built an aging, mediocre team early that had no chance of ever becoming a consistent winner. The philosophy of the that organization was the devaluing of the draft and the overvaluing of veterans... For instance, trading two first day picks for Phillip Buchanan, signing Victor Riley and handing him the starting job at LT, signing Robaire Smith and Todd Wade to $25+ million contracts, re-signing Gary Walker and Seth Payne to large amounts of money.

Clearly, this Kubiak/Smith led organization operates differently. While they aren't perfect, it is clear that in their four years they have produced a better record, a much younger and more talented team, and are in good salary cap shape.. So, I don't understand anyone thinking the former philosophy was better.

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2010, 12:45 PM
I've been wanting a starting corner from the draft since '07. I didn't know who Revis was at the time, but he would have done nicely (as he has proven to be one of the league's best).

I can understand the desire for a FS... what I don't understand is this "we didn't draft a starting safety, all is doomed" attitude. & for the most part, we're upset we didn't draft a safety in the third, who would have most likely been a developmental/depth guy anyway.

I think finding a good FS is much harder than it looks . Case and point , the best FS in the 2000's is Ed Reed . If you looked at Ed Reed and Laron Landry's combine , Landry blows him away . So what makes Reed so special ?

JB
05-02-2010, 12:53 PM
I think finding a good FS is much harder than it looks . Case and point , the best FS in the 2000's is Ed Reed . If you looked at Ed Reed and Laron Landry's combine , Landry blows him away . So what makes Reed so special ?

Football intelligence and the right system for him

thunderkyss
05-02-2010, 01:05 PM
I think finding a good FS is much harder than it looks . Case and point , the best FS in the 2000's is Ed Reed . If you looked at Ed Reed and Laron Landry's combine , Landry blows him away . So what makes Reed so special ?

Oh.. so you're upset we didn't take a FS in the first round.

Totally different argument than I've been seeing here, that one of our 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc... picks should have been a safety.

Same thing though. I've been wanting a CB... finally got one after 3 years.


Wait in line bub.

Honoring Earl 34
05-02-2010, 03:18 PM
Oh.. so you're upset we didn't take a FS in the first round.

Totally different argument than I've been seeing here, that one of our 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc... picks should have been a safety.

Same thing though. I've been wanting a CB... finally got one after 3 years.


Wait in line bub.

Nope ... I think they did the right thing . My point is , folks thing it's plug and play , which is simply not the case . A good FS is hard to find because the guy has to be a really smart player . It's probably easier to find an experienced veteran who's proven than a rookie .

I've read that the two easiest positions to scout are LT and CB . Why cause you either have it or you don't . RB is the easiest to plug and play because there's not much difference to what their trying to do .

steelbtexan
05-02-2010, 06:30 PM
You say playoffs are good enough for you, but you mention trading Schaub for Roethlisberger which would ruin every chance Houston would have at making the playoffs this year. Big Ben is suspended for six games. Are you sure about doing this trade?

I was using that as an example of taking risks. Which currently the Texans are unwilling to do.

steelbtexan
05-02-2010, 06:52 PM
I think you spend too much time looking at the past. I don't doubt Big Ben is a more accomplished QB now, but no way I'd trade Schaub for Ben, and I'm not a "big" Schaub fan. Ben has a bigger arm, he's more athletic but I think Schaub is much better in terms of accuracy, decision making, and managing an offense, and reading a defense.

That's a loaded question.

Would you have a team of high character guys if it meant 3 Championships in the next 5 years?

Having dumbasses on your team does not guarantee a Super Bowl appearance. How many play-offs has the Redskins been to with their $100 million DT? How has Cincinnati done in the last 5 years? How far did Pac-Man get the Cowboys?




Because we didn't draft a FS? This team will make it to the play-offs, and win. Why?

Because Kubiak has kept this offense consistently in the best of class since he's been here, and Frank Bush improved our defense tremendously in only one year. Brian Cushing, & Demeco are going to be monsters in this system for a second year (both going to the Pro Bowl), & opposing QBs won't have to place to throw the ball, if Kareem is as ready as Kubiak/Smith says he is, and Quinn improves on his first year.

TK

1. not willing to take the risk? I'm with you on this one. I'm just trying to find out who are the risk takers on the MB.

2. Sure I would, Haynesworth has only been there one year. Using your point of thought Schub should've been let go after his 1st year here. Now that Snyder has hired Shanny I'm willing to give Haynesworth a chance to be an impact player again. Not that he wasn't last year. His stats didn't look good but his impact was people around him getting great stats. (Orapko) If the Texans had trade for Haynesworth he would've immediately been the best DL on the team. That includes MW. Haynesworth takes plays off. So does MW. All DL take plays off except Reggie White. Who's a HOF.

3.Did Cincy make the playoffs this year or is my mind slipping? of course I would take a team full of chior boys if it mant winning a championship. Just like I would take a team with a few bad apples if it meant winning a championship. Pittsburgh won a championship with Holmes and Roethlisberger with one of the most clutch drives in SB history. The Pac-Man theory aplies to Holmes and Ben too?

3. I hope you're right. Lets see how it plays out. If Wilson or Pollard get urt again you will see more games like the 1st three instead of the last 13. IMHO

awtysst
05-02-2010, 06:54 PM
This has turned into a really funny thread. How did we go from not drafting a free safety to McNair sucks? Wait... never mind. We have already done this 34 times

You know how it is. People have a hard time staying on task.

thunderkyss
05-02-2010, 08:05 PM
TK
If Wilson or Pollard get urt again you will see more games like the 1st three instead of the last 13. IMHO

I don't think so. Barber (I'm not super high on Barber, but I do like the kid) made a few mistakes.... one really big one in particular. But so did a lot of other players on our team, during those first three games.

Cushing, Demeco, Bullman, Smith... all of them missed tackles that led to huge runs. I think they were working out the kinks of our new Defensive aggression. Plus Cushing had missed quite a bit in the pre-season.

With Pollard coming, we also went to a traditional SS/FS split, which I think will help Barber.

When Barber got back in the game for Wilson later in the season, he played well. I am more concerened if Pollard misses a game or two, but I think Barber would do fine there as well, with everyone in front of him playing better than they did weeks 1,2, & 3.

steelbtexan
05-02-2010, 10:11 PM
Hey Dale I thought about PMing you but decided to put it on the MB.

Disgusting is the piece of crap product that McNair has put on the field. You may not like the fact that the Texans and Smithiak have been a total failure when it comes to being successful on the field. It disgusts me that this team hasn't taken the steps necessary to have a playoff caliber football team and the fact that we still have to spend another offseason wondering when the Texans will make the playoffs.

I'm in elite company being neg repped by polyanic A***** like you and consider it an honor. But when the Texans due to their lack of activity this offseason miss the playoffs again and finish 6-10,8-8 I will still be beating the drum that this organization isn't fully committed to winning. meanwhile you will still be making the same old tired excuses of the last 8 yrs and there will be many more Neg reps coming from you and the Koolaid crew. Hopefully the Texans win and make the playoffs and all of this will be a moot point but as of now I dont see it.

Good luck with that Dale. Take another sip.

steelbtexan
05-02-2010, 10:16 PM
I don't think so. Barber (I'm not super high on Barber, but I do like the kid) made a few mistakes.... one really big one in particular. But so did a lot of other players on our team, during those first three games.

Cushing, Demeco, Bullman, Smith... all of them missed tackles that led to huge runs. I think they were working out the kinks of our new Defensive aggression. Plus Cushing had missed quite a bit in the pre-season.

With Pollard coming, we also went to a traditional SS/FS split, which I think will help Barber.

When Barber got back in the game for Wilson later in the season, he played well. I am more concerened if Pollard misses a game or two, but I think Barber would do fine there as well, with everyone in front of him playing better than they did weeks 1,2, & 3.

Reasonable arguement and I hope you're right. Smithiak are banking on it.

JB
05-02-2010, 10:40 PM
Hey Dale I thought about PMing you but decided to put it on the MB.

Disgusting is the piece of crap product that McNair has put on the field. You may not like the fact that the Texans and Smithiak have been a total failure when it comes to being successful on the field. It disgusts me that this team hasn't taken the steps necessary to have a playoff caliber football team and the fact that we still have to spend another offseason wondering when the Texans will make the playoffs.
I'm in elite company being neg repped by polyanic A***** like you and consider it an honor. But when the Texans due to their lack of activity this offseason miss the playoffs again and finish 6-10,8-8 I will still be beating the drum that this organization isn't fully committed to winning. meanwhile you will still be making the same old tired excuses of the last 8 yrs and there will be many more Neg reps coming from you and the Koolaid crew. Hopefully the Texans win and make the playoffs and all of this will be a moot point but as of now I dont see it.

Good luck with that Dale. Take another sip.

IF you truly believe this, why follow the team? Why put yourself through the travail? Don't tell me it is because you are a fan, or because you love the Texans because that is not true. A fan (short for fanatic) is wanting his (or her) to succeed. I have seen no evidence of that from you. You seem to take great pleasure in mysery and the belief that you know more than the proffesionals. Do you watch the gamesw just to see what you can ***** about?

Do you think it is just a matter of will power to win football games? There are 31 other teams trying to get in the playoffs you know? Yes, it is a shame that we have not made it yet in our very short time in the league, but I believe we are building a team and franchise that will far surpass anything Houston fans have experienced to date.

I do not know why you could even think that the management does not want to win. That would make no sense. Even if they were just in it for the money, they have to realize they would make a lot more by being more successful.

You may not agree with how they are doing it. You may not agree with who they have doing it. But to keep on saying they do not want to win is ludicrous.

Good luck in your hate, I hope you never come to enjoy the great team that we have here.

You may prefer being a Tits fan instead.

steelbtexan
05-02-2010, 11:31 PM
I can still be a fan even though I may disagree with how the team is being run. I'm certianly not miserable about a football team.

How dare anybody question the organzations will to win. Even though they haven't spent any $$$ even though they are the 5th most profitable franchise in the NFL.

If McNair is this benevolent owner that fans make him out to be and truly has an open checkbook policy then with the results that Smithiak have gotten over a 4 yr peroid they should be fired immediately. IMHO

I dont believe this is the case and that doesn't make me less of a fan. I'm not buying what the Texans are selling right now but I'm hoping for change and better times ahead. That's what being a fan is all about sticking with your team during the tough times. Which I've done and will continue to do. Much to the chagrin of some on this MB.

Goldensilence
05-03-2010, 12:30 AM
current regime track record is legit when it comes to developing system safties. pretty sure they would use a higher draft pick if the player on the board fit their system & was at the top of their list. then again why use a draft pick when you can pluck off another roster on the cheap? Both Pollard & Wilson were 2nd rd. picks, have valued NFL experience & as such are starters.

Texans used a 5th on Brandon Harrison (07) that didn't work out. A 6th on Dominque Barber (08) who they really like & has flashed when healthy. And 7th on Troy Nolan who broke his leg before last season started.

My gut tells me if something bad happens to this position during the 2010 season, like it did to the RB's last year, the Texans draft board will reflect that early in the draft (UNC defensive back Deunta Williams) or they go after a premium free agent (depending on collective bargining agreement fallout).

Who knows how McManis develops? will he be used in nickle packages only or provide some FS depth? Glover Quinn could also step in immediately & help he has the cover & physical skill set to one heck of a FS if they so choose.

Yeah they've done a great...wait what? Are you seriously trying to make an argument they've done a great job developing safeties?

Yeah Wilson and Pollard were second round picks...from other teams. Otherwise none of the current projects at safety have amounted to much. Harrison was a later round flyer who didn't work out. Nolan was injured so he didn't get a chance to show if he's going to amount to more than a camp body. Though I suspect unless he's just horrid he'll probably stick on the roster. The only reason Barber looked BETTER was because he actually had a legit SS playing next to him. I stress better because I still don't see him as a long term solution at FS.

Kubiak has already stated McMannis will be playing CB in camp. Though no matter what he says I suspect one of the CBs on the roster will be asked to move over to see if they can play FS.

I don't see how you can see yourself on the idea that the FO has a great track record with safeties. Later round flyers in the draft who they pray work out. They don't go trolling in FA for legit help unless you count Ferguson who stepped in decently for a year at times and all world FS Busing. Then their is the annual let's see who we can pick up mid season to plug in at one of the safety spots and see if they work out. Guess everyone will also try to sell themselves on Wilson. Guy hasn't made it through a season healthy in years. Guess the FO is banking on this being a healthy year for him. Talk about rolling the dice.

Yeah great track record at safety. Whatever.

The idea the current regime seems to think is invest a lot on your front seven with an emphasis getting a pass rush with your front 4. However, their blue print for that has been been ok for our DE's. Still not sure Mario is playing up to his potential, scary as that sounds. Other than last year our other DEs have been pretty anemic. Our idea of smaller gap penetrating DTs has yielded not so desirable results. Yet, once again we drafted a smaller DT to add to the rotation.

I guess we'll see if Mitchell is the guy that actually fits the bill and gets some sort of push upfront or jumps into opponents backfield. Far as his build and what he brings to the table it sounds exactly like the predraft report on Amobi.

I will say for everything that they've lacked at safety they hit the nail o nthe head with Cushing and lucky or not, hit on Pollard as well. Let's just hope like other safeties in the past it's not just a one year wonder.

Also as well for all my complaints the defense took a big leap last year. Let's just see if they can continue to improve.

bckey
05-03-2010, 08:09 AM
Also as well for all my complaints the defense took a big leap last year. Let's just see if they can continue to improve.


If the defense can make the same sort of leap this year then I believe the Texans can make the playoffs. I've been saying that it will take Bush building an elite defense to overcome Kubiak's ineptness as a head coach to finally get the Texans to the playoffs.

I will say this though about the defense. I don't like Bill Kollar the dl coach. He has coach mediocre dlines his entire career.

thunderkyss
05-03-2010, 08:22 AM
How dare anybody question the organzations will to win. Even though they haven't spent any $$$ even though they are the 5th most profitable franchise in the NFL.


I'm just speaking for myself here.

I think it is a good thing, that the FO is questioned. I think it is a good thing, that we aren't all sheep. I also think it is a good thing that we have sheep.

I don't think we need to get ugly about it. & some of the posts in this thread has gotten uglier than it really needed to be. We all have our own opinions... the only thing they have in common, is that they don't mean squat. McNair & Kubiak & Smith are going to do what they are going to do.

Outrage on this forum isn't going to change that. Calling McNair names isn't going to change that. Questioning the intelligence of Kubiak isn't going to change that.

IMHO it just shows an immaturity level from those posting such vile arguments.

I mean attacking someone who isn't even here to defend himself...


C'MON MAN!!!

thunderkyss
05-03-2010, 09:12 AM
Yeah great track record at safety. Whatever.

The idea the current regime seems to think is invest a lot on your front seven with an emphasis getting a pass rush with your front 4. However, their blue print for that has been been ok for our DE's. Still not sure Mario is playing up to his potential, scary as that sounds. Other than last year our other DEs have been pretty anemic. Our idea of smaller gap penetrating DTs has yielded not so desirable results. Yet, once again we drafted a smaller DT to add to the rotation.


I do agree, that "great track record" is quite a stretch. However, I think we've done a fine job of filling the Safety position. Whether we're talking Demps, Ferguson, Wilson, or Pollard. I don't think any of them are supposed to be the answer, Pollard may be the exception (remember '09 was a break out year for him).

But we all know the team has to be built from the inside out, and that's what the F.O. has been trying to do. They tried to make Travis Johnson work, but it didn't. They filled the spot with journeymen, until they got to a point they could spend quality picks on the position, that first pick, they went with a develpmental guy... still to early to give him a definitive grade (unless you think Amobi has reached his full potential, which is arguable on all counts).

2006: Mario, Demeco
2007: Amobi
2008: Molden
2009: Cushing, Barwin
2010: Jackson, Mitchell

Some people want to argue that FS was our most pressing need. Not one of those people would pencil Reeves in as our future... not that I think Wilson is our future, but we're a better team with Wilson and a rookie starting, than Reeves and a rookie. That's just my Opinion.

As far as Mitchell vs a stud FS in the third... I haven't heard one of the nay-sayers argue there was a FS starter available in the third, even if we traded up. Rotating DTs is the way you play the game. Rotating FSs is not. Makes more sense to use that pick on someone who won't be riding the bench, barring injury. Again, JMO.

Depth on D-Line is much more urgent than depth at FS, no matter how you want to look at it.

dalemurphy
05-03-2010, 09:45 AM
Hey Dale I thought about PMing you but decided to put it on the MB.

Disgusting is the piece of crap product that McNair has put on the field. You may not like the fact that the Texans and Smithiak have been a total failure when it comes to being successful on the field. It disgusts me that this team hasn't taken the steps necessary to have a playoff caliber football team and the fact that we still have to spend another offseason wondering when the Texans will make the playoffs.

I'm in elite company being neg repped by polyanic A***** like you and consider it an honor. But when the Texans due to their lack of activity this offseason miss the playoffs again and finish 6-10,8-8 I will still be beating the drum that this organization isn't fully committed to winning. meanwhile you will still be making the same old tired excuses of the last 8 yrs and there will be many more Neg reps coming from you and the Koolaid crew. Hopefully the Texans win and make the playoffs and all of this will be a moot point but as of now I dont see it.

Good luck with that Dale. Take another sip.

How are they not a "playoff caliber team" when they missed out on the playoffs because of a tie-breaker? If a tie-breaker determines whether you make the playoffs or not... doesn't that pretty well indicate that you are "playoff-caliber"?

your idea of a commitment to winning: trade Matt Schaub away for a rapist scumbag! That post of yours is an embarrassment. Why would anyone that is a fan of this team have any respect for someone that suggests we should trade Matt Schaub for Ben Roethlisberger? Give me a break! What a miserable, ignorant, and loathsome idea that is!

Honoring Earl 34
05-03-2010, 10:05 AM
I do agree, that "great track record" is quite a stretch. However, I think we've done a fine job of filling the Safety position. Whether we're talking Demps, Ferguson, Wilson, or Pollard. I don't think any of them are supposed to be the answer, Pollard may be the exception (remember '09 was a break out year for him).

But we all know the team has to be built from the inside out, and that's what the F.O. has been trying to do. They tried to make Travis Johnson work, but it didn't. They filled the spot with journeymen, until they got to a point they could spend quality picks on the position, that first pick, they went with a develpmental guy... still to early to give him a definitive grade (unless you think Amobi has reached his full potential, which is arguable on all counts).

2006: Mario, Demeco
2007: Amobi
2008: Molden
2009: Cushing, Barwin
2010: Jackson, Mitchell

Some people want to argue that FS was our most pressing need. Not one of those people would pencil Reeves in as our future... not that I think Wilson is our future, but we're a better team with Wilson and a rookie starting, than Reeves and a rookie. That's just my Opinion.

As far as Mitchell vs a stud FS in the third... I haven't heard one of the nay-sayers argue there was a FS starter available in the third, even if we traded up. Rotating DTs is the way you play the game. Rotating FSs is not. Makes more sense to use that pick on someone who won't be riding the bench, barring injury. Again, JMO.

Depth on D-Line is much more urgent than depth at FS, no matter how you want to look at it.

The best FS that I've seen was a converted CB ... Ronnie Lott . I posted this somewhere , look at the needs and picks of all the best teams . They don't go after need in the mid to late rounds . They stick to their board . Why ... the best players have a better chance of sticking and contributing .

otisbean
05-03-2010, 02:58 PM
Who are the top FS in the league? I would put Reed as number one, but who would you rate as 2-10?

Now of those 2-10, where were their defenses ranked in total D and passing yds per game? I know the Ravens are highly rated but looking at the top 10 overall and top 10 passing Ds I didn't see many teams with stud FSs there. Don't get me wrong I would love an Ed Reed or a Ronnie Lott back FS but Im not sure there are many guys like that in the league right now.

Honoring Earl 34
05-03-2010, 03:58 PM
Who are the top FS in the league? I would put Reed as number one, but who would you rate as 2-10?

Now of those 2-10, where were their defenses ranked in total D and passing yds per game? I know the Ravens are highly rated but looking at the top 10 overall and top 10 passing Ds I didn't see many teams with stud FSs there. Don't get me wrong I would love an Ed Reed or a Ronnie Lott back FS but Im not sure there are many guys like that in the league right now.

My whole point is that a free safety is not a deal breaker . Now a 6'2 , 200 lb fast guy with ball skills and smarts would be great but they usually play CB .

otisbean
05-04-2010, 08:07 AM
My whole point is that a free safety is not a deal breaker . Now a 6'2 , 200 lb fast guy with ball skills and smarts would be great but they usually play CB .

I was agreeing with you and posting my question based on earlier posts. I was trying to move away from the name calling and McNair bashing. I think a look at the FS position from a league perspective is interesting. I'm wondering how many truly elite FS are in the league now and what teams do they play for. Then it's interesting to look at where do those teams rank in total D and passing yards allowed.

Honoring Earl 34
05-04-2010, 09:40 AM
I was agreeing with you and posting my question based on earlier posts. I was trying to move away from the name calling and McNair bashing. I think a look at the FS position from a league perspective is interesting. I'm wondering how many truly elite FS are in the league now and what teams do they play for. Then it's interesting to look at where do those teams rank in total D and passing yards allowed.

They play for the teams with the elite pass rush .

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 01:58 PM
How are they not a "playoff caliber team" when they missed out on the playoffs because of a tie-breaker? If a tie-breaker determines whether you make the playoffs or not... doesn't that pretty well indicate that you are "playoff-caliber"?

your idea of a commitment to winning: trade Matt Schaub away for a rapist scumbag! That post of yours is an embarrassment. Why would anyone that is a fan of this team have any respect for someone that suggests we should trade Matt Schaub for Ben Roethlisberger? Give me a break! What a miserable, ignorant, and loathsome idea that is!

Have the Texans made the playoffs? Until then they are not a playoff caliber team. I know excuses will be made but that is a fact that you cant seem to wrap your brain around.

As far as Roethlisberger, I was just trying to stir things up a little. Roethlisberger is a 2 time SB champ. He's a scumbag,the trade will never happen. But I just wanted to see how important winning a SB was to people on the MB and if they would be willing to take on a scumbag if it meant winning a SB? The Texans agree with you and and depend on fans like you.

for fans like me it's about winning. Winning is the only thing. It's why the have a scoreboard and if the Texans have to take on a few bad guys to win I'm all for signing those players up.

That's the difference in the kind of fans we are.

Ole Miss Texan
05-04-2010, 03:01 PM
Have the Texans made the playoffs? Until then they are not a playoff caliber team. I know excuses will be made but that is a fact that you cant seem to wrap your brain around.

As far as Roethlisberger, I was just trying to stir things up a little. Roethlisberger is a 2 time SB champ. He's a scumbag,the trade will never happen. But I just wanted to see how important winning a SB was to people on the MB and if they would be willing to take on a scumbag if it meant winning a SB? The Texans agree with you and and depend on fans like you.

for fans like me it's about winning. Winning is the only thing. It's why the have a scoreboard and if the Texans have to take on a few bad guys to win I'm all for signing those players up.

That's the difference in the kind of fans we are.

In the Roethlisberger scenario... he's out the first 6 six games so he won't be ANY help us.

I don't just like Schaub because he has a "good guy image". I like him because he's proven he can be an elite quarterback... he can lead the league in yards, finish top 5 in TD's passes, finish 2nd in 1st downs, finish 2nd and 4th in 20+ and 40+ passing plays, respectively, and finish the season with a 98.6 passer rating. Health is a concern, but last year he started every game - he got banged up but showed the toughness to come back after shoulder injury, head blows and vicious hits.

You bring up giving up a little in the "boy scout" aspect of a player and getting more of the "bad boy" image as if that equates to winning. I'm all for bringing in the best players we can that will help us win a superbowl so long as they're not felons, cokeheads, murderers, etc. Roethlisberger isn't exactly in that category but the fact still remains the same: Schaub isn't the problem on our team and Roethlisberger isn't going to make us any better (even if he was available the full season).

otisbean
05-04-2010, 03:17 PM
In the Roethlisberger scenario... he's out the first 6 six games so he won't be ANY help us.

I don't just like Schaub because he has a "good guy image". I like him because he's proven he can be an elite quarterback... he can lead the league in yards, finish top 5 in TD's passes, finish 2nd in 1st downs, finish 2nd and 4th in 20+ and 40+ passing plays, respectively, and finish the season with a 98.6 passer rating. Health is a concern, but last year he started every game - he got banged up but showed the toughness to come back after shoulder injury, head blows and vicious hits.

You bring up giving up a little in the "boy scout" aspect of a player and getting more of the "bad boy" image as if that equates to winning. I'm all for bringing in the best players we can that will help us win a superbowl so long as they're not felons, cokeheads, murderers, etc. Roethlisberger isn't exactly in that category but the fact still remains the same: Schaub isn't the problem on our team and Roethlisberger isn't going to make us any better (even if he was available the full season).


I don't know OMT, if Roethlisberger did indeed do what he is accused of then I would put him in that category. Rape is heinous offense, and much much worse than being a drug user.

I'm with OMT, as a long time Raiders fans I can tell you, adding bad boys rarely works out well.

Ole Miss Texan
05-04-2010, 03:29 PM
I don't know OMT, if Roethlisberger did indeed do what he is accused of then I would put him in that category. Rape is heinous offense, and much much worse than being a drug user.

I'm with OMT, as a long time Raiders fans I can tell you, adding bad boys rarely works out well.
Well, yea, if he was a serial-rapists running around town that would be a whole different story but I don't think that's what he's accused of. I get mixed emotions on Ben's deal but the bottom line is he has repeatedly put himself in bad positions off the field and has gotten called out in the locker room for not being a leader.

Now if we want to talk about adding a "bad guy" on this team, let's at least make it at a position of need and one that would significantly impact our team for the better. Someone who skipped meetings, got pulled over for driving drunk, pulled a gun out during an altercation near his home, repeated uniform violations..... definitely not a Kubiak or McNair type of guy but good gosh Sean Taylor sure could help out at FS (rest in peace).

Mari-OWNED!
05-04-2010, 03:30 PM
I didn't read everything in this thread, but I'd just like to add that there are two free safeties that will more than likely be in next year's draft that I think us Texans fans should keep an eye when college football starts up again...

Rahim Moore from UCLA, and Deunta Williams from North Carolina.

I really like Moore and would love to see him in a Texans uniform in the future.

Ole Miss Texan
05-04-2010, 03:33 PM
I didn't read everything in this thread, but I'd just like to add that there are two free safeties that will more than likely be in next year's draft that I think us Texans fans should keep an eye when college football starts up again...

Rahim Moore from UCLA, and Deunta Williams from North Carolina.

I really like Moore and would love to see him in a Texans uniform in the future.

Glad you brought this up. There could be some really good prospects next year. What that means is when we watch the games, keep an eye on them and see how you'd like them on this team. Could turn out to be Eric Berry/Earl Thomas again and we don't get a chance at them. Could turn into William Moore/Taylor Mays and we pass.

The Pencil Neck
05-04-2010, 03:57 PM
Have the Texans made the playoffs? Until then they are not a playoff caliber team.

We disagree on the definition of "caliber".

Caliber doesn't mean that you've done it. It means you're good enough to do it. Playoff caliber doesn't mean you made the playoffs, it means you're good enough to make the playoffs. If you have a record as good as someone who made the playoffs and didn't make it because of tie-breakers, then you're playoff caliber.

A Super Bowl Caliber team isn't necessarily a team that has won the SB but a team that's good enough to do it. Same thing with playoffs.

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 04:52 PM
Bottom line is they haven't made the playoffs. With this years schedule and the remaining holes on this team I dont see them making the playoffs next year.

In fact I see Schaub getting hurt because of the failure of Smithiak to address the deficiencies in the interior of the OL.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 05:04 PM
Bottom line is they haven't made the playoffs. With this years schedule and the remaining holes on this team I dont see them making the playoffs next year.

In fact I see Schaub getting hurt because of the failure of Smithiak to address the deficiencies in the interior of the OL.

Classy! Predicting injuries. By the way, last year's interior line lost both starting guards in week 2 and yet Schaub was one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL. Meanwhile, Roethilsburger gets sacked about twice as often and also will be missing at least the first 4 games of the year.

Not to mention the fact that Ben Roethlisberger wasn't the QB of a "playoff-caliber" team last year... at least, not according to your standards.

Finally, how can a human being actually believe that "winning is the ONLY thing that matters"?

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 05:09 PM
It's why they keep score Dale. Rember when the big discussion on the MB was will Schaub stay healthy? What's different with that and ? whether the interior OL will stay healthy. Look I know you dont like the way I look at the way the Texans are run and you will defend how they are being run till your dying day. But at the end of the day the Texans still haven't made the playoffs and that little fact keeps geeting in the way of your arguement.

We will never agree. Thank god

Lollipops, Sugar Cookies and Koolaid for everybody Dale.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 05:14 PM
It's why they keep score Dale.

Really. So, then, it makes zero difference to you whether the score ends 59-0 or 27-24? That's interesting. I think most people that attend the game for entertainment purposes would prefer a good game. Also, I think it may matter to the coaches and players how well they played in victory or defeat.

When I go to NFL.com and look up scores of games from previous seasons, they actually do list the score and not only a "W" or "L"... why do you think that is?

We are all sports fans. All of us believe winning matters. Most people, however, believe other things are also important. That's the difference.

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 05:45 PM
Classy! Predicting injuries. By the way, last year's interior line lost both starting guards in week 2 and yet Schaub was one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL. Meanwhile, Roethilsburger gets sacked about twice as often and also will be missing at least the first 4 games of the year.

Not to mention the fact that Ben Roethlisberger wasn't the QB of a "playoff-caliber" team last year... at least, not according to your standards.

Finally, how can a human being actually believe that "winning is the ONLY thing that matters"?

I also see Schaub getting hurt next year if Myers is the starting center. Sorry, but we play some massive DTs next season and we all saw what happened with Kris Jenkins. :cutthroat:

And let's not act like Schaub didn't get hurt last season, as long as Myers is the starting center, Schaub's health is always at risk.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 05:58 PM
I also see Schaub getting hurt next year if Myers is the starting center. Sorry, but we play some massive DTs next season and we all saw what happened with Kris Jenkins. :cutthroat:

And let's not act like Schaub didn't get hurt last season, as long as Myers is the starting center, Schaub's health is always at risk.

What football player didn't "get hurt" last season, using your criteria? My point is that he played 16 games and played them at a high level with a backup LG, Chris Myers, and a backup and rookie at RG.

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 05:58 PM
Really. So, then, it makes zero difference to you whether the score ends 59-0 or 27-24? That's interesting. I think most people that attend the game for entertainment purposes would prefer a good game. Also, I think it may matter to the coaches and players how well they played in victory or defeat.

When I go to NFL.com and look up scores of games from previous seasons, they actually do list the score and not only a "W" or "L"... why do you think that is?

We are all sports fans. All of us believe winning matters. Most people, however, believe other things are also important. That's the difference.

What are these other things that you speak of that are as important if not more important to you than winning?

The score by the W?L is just for historical purposes. The W/L is really the only thing of significance.

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 06:00 PM
I also see Schaub getting hurt next year if Myers is the starting center. Sorry, but we play some massive DTs next season and we all saw what happened with Kris Jenkins. :cutthroat:

And let's not act like Schaub didn't get hurt last season, as long as Myers is the starting center, Schaub's health is always at risk.

QFT

The truth isn't something that needs to be spoken here.

Where are my rose colored glasses?

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 06:02 PM
What football player didn't "get hurt" last season, using your criteria? My point is that he played 16 games and played them at a high level with a backup LG, Chris Myers, and a backup and rookie at RG.

I'm sorry.....how many QBs had their shoulder in a sling last season? Let's not nit pick here, that wasn't just some "bump and bruise".

We got lucky that it was his left arm and not his right....sorry, but you're not going to be able to convince me that I have nothing to worry about as long as Mr Charmin is protecting our franchise QB. I've also been on record with saying as long as Chris Myers is our starting C, this team will not make the playoffs and so far I've been right. If he's our starting center next season, I don't think we'll make the playoffs.....that's just how I feel.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 06:08 PM
I'm sorry.....how many QBs had their shoulder in a sling last season? Let's not nit pick here, that wasn't just some "bump and bruise".
We got lucky that it was his left arm and not his right....sorry, but you're not going to be able to convince me that I have nothing to worry about as long as Mr Charmin is protecting our franchise QB. I've also been on record with saying as long as Chris Myers is our starting C, this team will not make the playoffs and so far I've been right. If he's our starting center next season, I don't think we'll make the playoffs.....that's just how I feel.

here's a quick list off the top of my head:

Carson Palmer -broken left hand (lucky it wasn't his right)
Peyton Manning - recovered from knee injury early, had off-season neck surgery
Ben Rapelisberger - concussion
Mark Sanchez- torn PCL
Tom Brady - recovering from ACL
Trent Edwards -concussion/ankle
Flacco - disabling leg contusion at end of season/into playoffs
Eli Manning -ankle/foot problem that cost him in the middle of the season
Kurt Warner- injured shoulder... said he stopped throwing deep late in the season because of it
Matt Hasselbeck - injured all season
Marc Bulger - lots of injuries
Bret Favre - injured ankle cost them in the playoffs... he still needs surgery

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 06:13 PM
here's a quick list off the top of my head:

Carson Palmer -broken left hand (lucky it wasn't his right)
Peyton Manning - recovered from knee injury early, had off-season neck surgery
Ben Rapelisberger - concussion
Mark Sanchez- torn PCL
Tom Brady - recovering from ACL
Trent Edwards -concussion/ankle
Flacco - disabling leg contusion at end of season/into playoffs
Eli Manning -ankle/foot problem that cost him in the middle of the season
Kurt Warner- injured shoulder... said he stopped throwing deep late in the season because of it
Matt Hasselbeck - injured all season
Marc Bulger - lots of injuries
Bret Favre - injured ankle cost them in the playoffs... he still needs surgery

Now how many of those QBs have a history of being injured every year? How many games have those QBs missed over the last 3 seasons. Sorry, like I said above you aren't going to convince me that I shouldn't be worried.

AGAIN....AS LONG AS CHRIS MYERS IS BLOCKING FOR MATT AND ESPECIALLY WITH OUR SCHEDULE AND THE 3-4s(BIG DTS) THAT WE WILL BE FACING, I'M NOT CONFIDENT IN MATT'S ABILITY TO LAST A FULL SEASON WITH MR. DROP CLOTH IN FRONT OF HIM.

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 06:23 PM
Now how many of those QBs have a history of being injured every year? How many games have those QBs missed over the last 3 seasons. Sorry, like I said above you aren't going to convince me that I shouldn't be worried.

AGAIN....AS LONG AS CHRIS MYERS IS BLOCKING FOR MATT AND ESPECIALLY WITH OUR SCHEDULE AND THE 3-4s(BIG DTS) THAT WE WILL BE FACING, I'M NOT CONFIDENT IN MATT'S ABILITY TO LAST A FULL SEASON WITH MR. DROP CLOTH IN FRONT OF HIM.

Yeah

But you will get called classless for even suggesting that the Texans interior OL (Myers,Studdard etc.) might become the root cause of Texans injury problems. LOL

Bottom line is you believe as long as Myers is the starting C the Texans wont be making the playoffs. So far you've been right. That bothers the Sunshine crowd. Just like bringing up the fact that everything isn't hunky dory because the Texans haven't made the playoffs. All of the stats in the world dont mean a thing. The Texans haven't accomplishe their goal. Kubes would even admit that. Some on the MB have trouble facing facts.

I'm with you until Myers is replaced the playoffs are just a dream.

Goldensilence
05-04-2010, 06:30 PM
here's a quick list off the top of my head:

Carson Palmer -broken left hand (lucky it wasn't his right)
Peyton Manning - recovered from knee injury early, had off-season neck surgery
Ben Rapelisberger - concussion
Mark Sanchez- torn PCL
Tom Brady - recovering from ACL
Trent Edwards -concussion/ankle
Flacco - disabling leg contusion at end of season/into playoffs
Eli Manning -ankle/foot problem that cost him in the middle of the season
Kurt Warner- injured shoulder... said he stopped throwing deep late in the season because of it
Matt Hasselbeck - injured all season
Marc Bulger - lots of injuries
Bret Favre - injured ankle cost them in the playoffs... he still needs surgery

Uhh no. Throwing a bad pass across your body on your back foot into several defenders cost them in the playoffs. Not the first time Brett threw away a shot at the SB.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 06:35 PM
Yeah

But you will get called classless for even suggesting that the Texans interior OL (Myers,Studdard etc.) might become the root cause of Texans injury problems. LOL

Bottom line is you believe as long as Myers is the starting C the Texans wont be making the playoffs. So far you've been right. That bothers the Sunshine crowd. Just like bringing up the fact that everything isn't hunky dory because the Texans haven't made the playoffs. All of the stats in the world dont mean a thing. The Texans haven't accomplishe their goal. Kubes would even admit that. Some on the MB have trouble facing facts.

I'm with you until Myers is replaced the playoffs are just a dream.


You just make stuff up! I'm hopeful Myers will be replaced. I'm as big of an anti-Studdard fan that you will find on this board. That being said, it doesn't change the fact that Schaub layed 16 games last season and was hit relatively few times- in comparison with other NFL Qbs. Of course improving the interior Oline would further limit those hits and decrease the likelihood of injury. I just found it interesting that you would make that sort of predction coming off a season like this one where our running game struggled, we lost two starting OLmen and still Schaub was only sacked something like 24 times.

76Texan
05-04-2010, 06:38 PM
If you guys worry about Mattie being hit, replace both tackles and your LG!

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 06:41 PM
What am I making up?

The rest of the post really kinda points out what a great season Schaub had.

With this years schedule Schaub will be lucky to make it through the season. IMHO (3-4 teams) Having Orlovsky playing 3 or 4 games next season isn't conducive to making the playoffs.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 06:50 PM
Now how many of those QBs have a history of being injured every year? How many games have those QBs missed over the last 3 seasons. Sorry, like I said above you aren't going to convince me that I shouldn't be worried.

AGAIN....AS LONG AS CHRIS MYERS IS BLOCKING FOR MATT AND ESPECIALLY WITH OUR SCHEDULE AND THE 3-4s(BIG DTS) THAT WE WILL BE FACING, I'M NOT CONFIDENT IN MATT'S ABILITY TO LAST A FULL SEASON WITH MR. DROP CLOTH IN FRONT OF HIM.

Tom Brady: missed 15 games in '08... so, he's missed more games in the last three years than Schaub has.

Carson Palmer: has had an ACL tear and also and achilles. He's missed more time than Schaub

Ben Roethlisburger: has missed a handful of games but has serious concussion issues.

Donovan McNabb: has missed a ton of games to injury the past 4 seasons

Aaron Rodgers: couldn't stay healthy for one game until '08. He had the fragile tag also, until he successfully played a full season in '08, just like Schaub did in '09.

Drew Brees: had some injury issues in SD and then tore his rotator cuff... injuries to him are the reason New Orleans has him now.

Matt Hasselbeck: chronic bad back. has missed a ton of games the past few years.


** I think there is a difference between being worried about injuries, and predicting one. SteelbTexan predicted a Schaub injury and used it as a reason why he thinks the team will fail. I'm terrified that Schaub will get hurt and ruin our season. I worry about AJ or Cushing getting hurt to. Injuries happen and they suck! However, to assert Schaub will get injured and then preemptively blame the organization is classless. Players get hurt. If the Texans had given up 50 sacks and then did nothing in the off-season, I would understand the negativity more. However, they signed a C/G and drafted one as well, in addition to getting Briesel back from IR and developing last year's rookie C/G... and this after a year when Schaub played every game and was sacked very little.

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 06:51 PM
It's not just the 3-4 tackles we face.... We also face Haloti Ngata and Terrence Cody....as well as our old friend Albert Haynesworth. Yep, we'll be seeing the Raggedy Andy act again.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 07:01 PM
Yeah

But you will get called classless for even suggesting that the Texans interior OL (Myers,Studdard etc.) might become the root cause of Texans injury problems. LOL

Bottom line is you believe as long as Myers is the starting C the Texans wont be making the playoffs. So far you've been right. That bothers the Sunshine crowd. Just like bringing up the fact that everything isn't hunky dory because the Texans haven't made the playoffs. All of the stats in the world dont mean a thing. The Texans haven't accomplishe their goal. Kubes would even admit that. Some on the MB have trouble facing facts.

I'm with you until Myers is replaced the playoffs are just a dream.


So, if OD, and/or Slaton stayed healthy... or, perhaps Pitts or Briesel would've stayed healthy, we would still have not made the playoffs.

Heck, what would've happened if Indy had simply played 4 quarters versus NYJets... would it still be a dream?

When I'm defending Chris Myers, that's a pretty good indication that someone has gone way overboard. I had some arguments with 76Texan because my opinion of Myers is much lower than his. However, it is foolish to act like a weakness in one spot on a team will neccessarily negate the team's ability to have success. All teams have some weaknesses. That's how the league is designed.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 07:02 PM
It's not just the 3-4 tackles we face.... We also face Haloti Ngata and Terrence Cody....as well as our old friend Albert Haynesworth. Yep, we'll be seeing the Raggedy Andy act again.

Terrence Cody?? who cares!

JCTexan
05-04-2010, 07:08 PM
It's not just the 3-4 tackles we face.... We also face Haloti Ngata and Terrence Cody....as well as our old friend Albert Haynesworth. Yep, we'll be seeing the Raggedy Andy act again.

Ngata & Cody both play in a 3-4 defense, and I believe Washington is changing to a 3-4 also which would make Haynesworth a 3-4 NT.

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 07:09 PM
Tom Brady: missed 15 games in '08... so, he's missed more games in the last three years than Schaub has.

Carson Palmer: has had an ACL tear and also and achilles. He's missed more time than Schaub

Ben Roethlisburger: has missed a handful of games but has serious concussion issues.

Donovan McNabb: has missed a ton of games to injury the past 4 seasons

Aaron Rodgers: couldn't stay healthy for one game until '08. He had the fragile tag also, until he successfully played a full season in '08, just like Schaub did in '09.

Drew Brees: had some injury issues in SD and then tore his rotator cuff... injuries to him are the reason New Orleans has him now.

Matt Hasselbeck: chronic bad back. has missed a ton of games the past few years.


** I think there is a difference between being worried about injuries, and predicting one. SteelbTexan predicted a Schaub injury and used it as a reason why he thinks the team will fail. I'm terrified that Schaub will get hurt and ruin our season. I worry about AJ or Cushing getting hurt to. Injuries happen and they suck! However, to assert Schaub will get injured and then preemptively blame the organization is classless. Players get hurt. If the Texans had given up 50 sacks and then did nothing in the off-season, I would understand the negativity more. However, they signed a C/G and drafted one as well, in addition to getting Briesel back from IR and developing last year's rookie C/G... and this after a year when Schaub played every game and was sacked very little.

Still dont get why it's classless to predict injury with an OL that contains Myers and Studdard. Was it Classless to predict Schaub would get hurt last offseason? Many predicted it. I did not.

This season I'm calling it ahead of time. It's not Schaub. It's the lack of interior OL talent and the much tougher DL's that the OL will be facing this year.

We certianly have different definitions of what classless is. If that's the case. But oh well there are many things we will continue to disagree on.

Winning is the only thing that matters to me. You on the otherhand would be fine with 7-9,9-7. As long as the right kind of guys are playing on the team.

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 07:11 PM
So, if OD, and/or Slaton stayed healthy... or, perhaps Pitts or Briesel would've stayed healthy, we would still have not made the playoffs.

Heck, what would've happened if Indy had simply played 4 quarters versus NYJets... would it still be a dream?

When I'm defending Chris Myers, that's a pretty good indication that someone has gone way overboard. I had some arguments with 76Texan because my opinion of Myers is much lower than his. However, it is foolish to act like a weakness in one spot on a team will neccessarily negate the team's ability to have success. All teams have some weaknesses. That's how the league is designed.

If and buts and no playoffs.

Carry on

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 07:18 PM
Tom Brady: missed 15 games in '08... so, he's missed more games in the last three years than Schaub has.

:rolleyes: Tom Brady had a severe knee injury...it was the first time he missed significant time in his career

Carson Palmer: has had an ACL tear and also and achilles. He's missed more time than Schaub

Carson Palmer is injury prone and the injuries are starting to take their toll on his career, he's never been able to get back to his 2005 form...I really don't see where this helps your argument

Ben Roethlisburger: has missed a handful of games but has serious concussion issues.

Yeah, I'm sure that motor accident has nothing to do with his current concussions or behavior.....Ben Roethisburger is also one of the most hit QBs in the entire league. He'll hold on to the ball and sell out his body to make a play. It makes him a exciting player to watch, but isn't good for his health.

Donovan McNabb: has missed a ton of games to injury the past 4 seasons

Also injury prone...see Palmer, don't really see where that helps your argument.

Aaron Rodgers: couldn't stay healthy for one game until '08. He had the fragile tag also, until he successfully played a full season in '08, just like Schaub did in '09.

:mcnugget: What are you talking about? Aaron Rodgers wasn't named the starter or given a chance until '08, he's made every start for that team since he's been given the starting job and what's more impressive he made every start last season despite the fact that at one point last season he was on pace to break David Carr's sack record. His offensive line is horrible, this doesn't help your argument at all.

Drew Brees: had some injury issues in SD and then tore his rotator cuff... injuries to him are the reason New Orleans has him now.

Okay, now you're just rewriting history... The cuff injury gave SD the out they needed to move him, but that isn't the reason why he was on the trading table. His sub par play early on in his career was. You do remember they drafted Phillip Rivers and the Chargers didn't want to start a rookie. It just so happened that season was the season where Drew Brees became the player we recognize today. So then the Chargers were stuck with a franchise QB and a talented rookie they took very high in the draft and paid a boat load of money to. The cuff injury gave them the out they need to sell to their fans. Luckily for them Rivers panned out.

Matt Hasselbeck: chronic bad back. has missed a ton of games the past few years.

Due to age he is also now injury prone....once your back goes, you're done. Matt is now the guy taking snaps while his team looks for the other guy. He isn't going to be part of his team's future plans.


** I think there is a difference between being worried about injuries, and predicting one. SteelbTexan predicted a Schaub injury and used it as a reason why he thinks the team will fail. I'm terrified that Schaub will get hurt and ruin our season. I worry about AJ or Cushing getting hurt to. Injuries happen and they suck! However, to assert Schaub will get injured and then preemptively blame the organization is classless. Players get hurt. If the Texans had given up 50 sacks and then did nothing in the off-season, I would understand the negativity more. However, they signed a C/G and drafted one as well, in addition to getting Briesel back from IR and developing last year's rookie C/G... and this after a year when Schaub played every game and was sacked very little.


I'm blaming Chris Myers more than the organization and I guess you could say I'm blaming Kubiak for believing that Myers is "the guy" after clearly seeing he's not. To be fair though, they did draft Caldwell and signed Wade Smith, but they should be more proactive at filling the biggest hole on the offensive side of the ball (and yes, that was even before we drafted Tate), especially when that hole directly effects the health of your QB.

Look I know this is the NFL and players get hurt, that's just stating the obvious, but you can also do things to lower the risk that your players will get hurt and asking your QB who has a history of getting hurt to lineup behind the weakest center in the league for a 3rd straight year is NOT LOWERING ANY RISK TO HIS HEALTH

Also don't give the line too much credit for those low sack #s....Schaub does a fantastic job of giving rid of the ball and Kubiak also does a good job at moving his release platform. He moves him around and doesn't keep him throwing from the same spot.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 07:20 PM
If and buts and no playoffs.

Carry on

We were 9-7 with 6 starters on IR and lost out on the playoffs by a tie-breaker... Yet, you assert it is virtually impossiple for the team to make the playoffs with Myers playing center. You don't see any errancy in that logic?

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 07:22 PM
Ngata & Cody both play in a 3-4 defense, and I believe Washington is changing to a 3-4 also which would make Haynesworth a 3-4 NT.

I heard about the Redskins wanting to switch, but didn't hear anything final. Good call on the Ravens, I thought they switched back to the 4-3 a few seasons ago.

Oh well, doesn't change the fact that Myers has alot of beef to deal with.

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 07:26 PM
We were 9-7 with 6 starters on IR and lost out on the playoffs by a tie-breaker... Yet, you assert it is virtually impossiple for the team to make the playoffs with Myers playing center. You don't see any errancy in that logic?

We got our asses handed to us in the home opener, mainly because Myers couldn't maintain Kris Jenkins. (the reason why we NEEDED a tie breaker). We struggled to run the ball all year, mainly because Myers and the interior line couldn't open up holes and that cost us alot more games. How many times were we turned away on the goal line and in short yardage situations? How many times have we watched this team struggle in the redzone over the years, because we couldn't move people around when it mattered?

Also lets not act like last year's schedule wasn't easy and ALOT easier than this one will be.

Ole Miss Texan
05-04-2010, 07:35 PM
You on the otherhand would be fine with 7-9,9-7. As long as the right kind of guys are playing on the team.
I don't think adding good human beings on this team necessarily means we will always be a .500 ball club.

Let's look at some of the "good guys" we have on this team and relate it league-wide:

QB: Matt Schaub - One the top at his position in the league.
WR: Andre Johnson - THE best WR in the entire NFL.
TE: Owen Daniels - One the top at his position in the league.
DE: Mario Williams - One of the top 4-3 DE's in the league.
MLB: Demeco Ryans - Arguably the best 4-3 MLB in the league.
SLB: Brian Cushing - Arguably the best overall LB in the league.

I say keep up the good work. Continue building this team with All-Pro calibre talent. We still have a lot of positions to upgrade but we have 6 of 22 starters that are near the best at their position.... and they happen to be quality individuals and not thugs.

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 07:39 PM
I don't think adding good human beings on this team necessarily means we will always be a .500 ball club.

Let's look at some of the "good guys" we have on this team and relate it league-wide:

QB: Matt Schaub - One the top at his position in the league.
WR: Andre Johnson - THE best WR in the entire NFL.
TE: Owen Daniels - One the top at his position in the league.
DE: Mario Williams - One of the top 4-3 DE's in the league.
MLB: Demeco Ryans - Arguably the best 4-3 MLB in the league.
SLB: Brian Cushing - Arguably the best overall LB in the league.

I say keep up the good work. Continue building this team with All-Pro calibre talent. We still have a lot of positions to upgrade but we have 6 of 22 starters that are near the best at their position.... and they happen to be quality individuals and not thugs.

I have no problem with adding good guys as long as they're football players and we have plenty of "good" football players on this team. It's the crappy ones that I can do without, Myers is not a starting caliber center on a team that wishes to make the playoffs.

CloakNNNdagger
05-04-2010, 07:40 PM
It's not just the 3-4 tackles we face.... We also face Haloti Ngata and Terrence Cody....as well as our old friend Albert Haynesworth. Yep, we'll be seeing the Raggedy Andy act again.

With all the big NT/DTs that we'll be facing this season, Meyers may shortly be recognizable on the sideline as the one wearing a Wounded Warrior Project tee shirt. Hence, a universal solution by default.:slapfight:

Ole Miss Texan
05-04-2010, 07:41 PM
We got our asses handed to us in the home opener, mainly because Myers couldn't maintain Kris Jenkins. (the reason why we NEEDED a tie breaker). We struggled to run the ball all year, mainly because Myers and the interior line couldn't open up holes and that cost us alot more games. How many times were we turned away on the goal line and in short yardage situations?

Also lets not act like last year's schedule wasn't easy and ALOT easier than this one will be.

I'll be the first to say that I was not happy with out depth on the OL last offseason. I LOVE that we have Cushing - best possible pick in the world... but there were a few of us that threw out the idea of draft Michael Oher. Could play 4 of the 5 positions on the OL. In case of injury to any player, we'd have the flexibility to fill that spot. '08 was good because we had the same OL every game, that doesn't happen every year. So I am completely on board in beefing up this OL. Wade Smith and Shelley Smith are progress, but they're probabaly not the longterm answer. Smith will start of Studdard, Caldwell/Brisiel will start at RG - and while Myers isn't a super duper C, I think he'll be fine with better talent and more seasoned players on either side. I don't know that we could necessarily upgrade him RIGHT NOW unless its with Smith or Caldwell.

Lucky
05-04-2010, 07:44 PM
That being said, it doesn't change the fact that Schaub layed 16 games last season and was hit relatively few times- in comparison with other NFL Qbs.
There was a stat floating around after the season that had Shaub among the most hit QBs. It may have been posted on either Texan Chick's or McClain's blog at the Chronic. There was debate regarding how much this was due to the o-line, how much due to the lack of a running game, and if Schaub holding on to the ball looking to make a play was a factor.

Look, even Kubiak admitted in an offseason interview that the interior line play needed to improve. What he didn't say was how that would be accomplished. Wade Smith was signed. Caldwell is a year older. Briesel is returning. Maybe he feels that will do the trick? Who really knows if Myers will be the starter on opening day? No need to get panties in a wad before we actually know what will happen.

What does this have to do with a FS? This thread is too long to find out how/when/where it became diverted.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 07:58 PM
I'm blaming Chris Myers more than the organization and I guess you could say I'm blaming Kubiak for believing that Myers is "the guy" after clearly seeing he's not. To be fair though, they did draft Caldwell and signed Wade Smith, but they should be more proactive at filling the biggest hole on the offensive side of the ball (and yes, that was even before we drafted Tate), especially when that hole directly effects the health of your QB.

Look I know this is the NFL and players get hurt, that's just stating the obvious, but you can also do things to lower the risk that your players will get hurt and asking your QB who has a history of getting hurt to lineup behind the weakest center in the league for a 3rd straight year is NOT LOWERING ANY RISK TO HIS HEALTH

Also don't give the line too much credit for those low sack #s....Schaub does a fantastic job of giving rid of the ball and Kubiak also does a good job at moving his release platform. He moves him around and doesn't keep him throwing from the same spot.


If you were an Indy fan, how much would you be complaining about Bill Polian's refusal to upgrade their OLine. After all, it is a very pedestrian line and only Peyton's ability to get rid of the ball keep his sack total so low.

Pouncey was the only highly regarded center in the draft and he was selected before our pick. It's perfectly reasonable to suggest that Shelly Smith could be the 2nd best center selected in the draft (who knows). Wade Smith was probably the highest rated free agent interior lineman. That seems like a pretty good effort to me, especially considering the Caldwell pick last season. What would you have done?

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 07:59 PM
What does this have to do with a FS? This thread is too long to find out how/when/where it became diverted.

LOL, it must suck being a mod during the offseason. :)

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 08:03 PM
We got our asses handed to us in the home opener, mainly because Myers couldn't maintain Kris Jenkins. (the reason why we NEEDED a tie breaker). We struggled to run the ball all year, mainly because Myers and the interior line couldn't open up holes and that cost us alot more games. How many times were we turned away on the goal line and in short yardage situations? How many times have we watched this team struggle in the redzone over the years, because we couldn't move people around when it mattered?

Also lets not act like last year's schedule wasn't easy and ALOT easier than this one will be.

The running game needs to improve. The interior line struggled. There is reason to expect/hope for improvement this year. All success/failure doesn't rest entirely on Chris Myers. That's just silly! We have 5 centers on the roster right now and most of them are under 30 with some athletic ability: Myers, W.Smith, S.Smith, Caldwell, C.White... As Lucky said, it doesn't seem like time to freak out.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 08:06 PM
There was a stat floating around after the season that had Shaub among the most hit QBs. It may have been posted on either Texan Chick's or McClain's blog at the Chronic. There was debate regarding how much this was due to the o-line, how much due to the lack of a running game, and if Schaub holding on to the ball looking to make a play was a factor.

Look, even Kubiak admitted in an offseason interview that the interior line play needed to improve. What he didn't say was how that would be accomplished. Wade Smith was signed. Caldwell is a year older. Briesel is returning. Maybe he feels that will do the trick? Who really knows if Myers will be the starter on opening day? No need to get panties in a wad before we actually know what will happen.

What does this have to do with a FS? This thread is too long to find out how/when/where it became diverted.


If I recall, the stat was simply number of times hit. Relative to passing attempts, he wasn't hit that often.

Regarding FS: According to SteelbTexan, even if Troy Nolan turns into Ronnie Lott, it still won't help us make the playoffs if Chris Myers is on the team.

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 08:07 PM
If you were an Indy fan, how much would you be complaining about Bill Polian's refusal to upgrade their OLine. After all, it is a very pedestrian line and only Peyton's ability to get rid of the ball keep his sack total so low.

Pouncey was the only highly regarded center in the draft and he was selected before our pick. It's perfectly reasonable to suggest that Shelly Smith could be the 2nd best center selected in the draft (who knows). Wade Smith was probably the highest rated free agent interior lineman. That seems like a pretty good effort to me, especially considering the Caldwell pick last season. What would you have done?

If I was a Indy fan, I'm not complaining anything about Bill Polian, because Bill Polian has constructed a roster that has won more games this past decade then any other team.....a team that has pretty much won ever divisional title since the AFC South's inception, a team that has had 8 consecutive playoff appearances, and a team that has been to two SBs, while winning one.

I don't see any comparison between the Colts and the Texans....and you do realize that Bill Polian has drafted alot of interior lineman over the years and Jeff Saturday has been one of the best centers in the league.

Also I wasn't upset with not getting Pouncy this year, I was more upset with not drafting Max Unger last season, who flourished in Oregon's zone blocking scheme (the same system we run here) and who is now the starting center of the Seahawks.

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 08:11 PM
The running game needs to improve. The interior line struggled. There is reason to expect/hope for improvement this year. All success/failure doesn't rest entirely on Chris Myers. That's just silly! We have 5 centers on the roster right now and most of them are under 30 with some athletic ability: Myers, W.Smith, S.Smith, Caldwell, C.White... As Lucky said, it doesn't seem like time to freak out.

I have no problem with placing most of the blame at the feet of Myers....he's the one who consistently gets owned on the field and I'm not just talking about getting beat, but embarrassed. Your center should be the anchor of the interior line and he can't even hold the point of attack.

I don't think we have 5 centers on the team...that's nieve at best. They played Caldwell at guard last season so they might see his future there. Same thing with W. Smith...I think they also see him playing guard for them. C. White is okay, but he isn't a starter either...great depth who can play multiple positions. We don't even know enough about S. Smith to call him a viable option.

dalemurphy
05-04-2010, 08:15 PM
If I was a Indy fan, I'm not complaining anything about Bill Polian, because Bill Polian has constructed a roster that has won more games this past decade then any other team.....a team that has pretty much won ever divisional title since the AFC South's inception, a team that has had 8 consecutive playoff appearances, and a team that has been to two SBs, while winning one.

I don't see any comparison between the Colts and the Texans....and you do realize that Bill Polian has drafted alot of interior lineman over the years and Jeff Saturday has been one of the best centers in the league.

Also I wasn't upset with not getting Pouncy this year, I was more upset with not drafting Max Unger last season, who flourished in Oregon's zone blocking scheme (the same system we run here) and who is now the starting center of the Seahawks.



Well, I'm thrilled with Connor Barwin.. and, since that pick the Texans have acquired:

Caldwell, Wade Smith, and Shelley Smith.


I was hoping for one of the top 3 centers last season also, but then again, I was worried about the Cushing pick. It's not as if we didn't need help at LB and DL.

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 08:36 PM
Well, I'm thrilled with Connor Barwin.. and, since that pick the Texans have acquired:

Caldwell, Wade Smith, and Shelley Smith.


I was hoping for one of the top 3 centers last season also, but then again, I was worried about the Cushing pick. It's not as if we didn't need help at LB and DL.

I liked the Cushing pick, but when Unger fell to our second round pick it should've been a no brainer. He was the best zone blocking center in the draft and when he was at Oregon all that school did was churn out dominant rushing numbers. I like Barwin, but I could do without him if we had a bonified young starting center who could hold the position down for the next decade.

Second Honeymoon
05-04-2010, 08:55 PM
I liked the Cushing pick, but when Unger fell to our second round pick it should've been a no brainer. He was the best zone blocking center in the draft and when he was at Oregon all that school did was churn out dominant rushing numbers. I like Barwin, but I could do without him if we had a bonified young starting center who could hold the position down for the next decade.

totally agree, but not surprising. after all, Barwin played TE. Advantage: Barwin.

we have been a franchise for almost a decade and we have yet to field a quality NFL center

mckinney was serviceable but still a weak link and Flanny couldn't stay healthy

its their jobs on the line with this whole 'not addressing FS and C' thing. its like the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. I hope things turn out good but they are just setting themselves up for an epic fail.

the schedule is the schedule. its tough every year. but we have some serious question marks going into this year. more than we had last year and we barely squeaked out 9 wins. i just wish we would have been a bit more proactive on addressing some of our offseason needs. tate could be special. jackson looks to be a solid pro DB, but that wasn't enough imho.

They should have taken a few more risks this offseason to try and get over the hump before the whole labor agreement BS blows up the 2011 season. For the fans.

oh and everyone say a prayer for the oil leak in the Gulf. we need a miracle.

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 08:57 PM
We were 9-7 with 6 starters on IR and lost out on the playoffs by a tie-breaker... Yet, you assert it is virtually impossiple for the team to make the playoffs with Myers playing center. You don't see any errancy in that logic?

Excuses for $1000 please.

You're doing a great job Dale.

Wolf
05-04-2010, 09:01 PM
bottom line is that we had arguably 4 needs CB,C,RB,FS in the draft, so something wasn't going to get filled.

so no matter how the Texans drafted this year, some discussion would have came up.. if we took CB and Center in the first 2 rounds .. we'd be talking about a lack of one of the top RB's in the draft. We draft a CB and RB .. well we are talking about FS and Center in this thread

pick your poison.
:handshake:

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 09:02 PM
If I recall, the stat was simply number of times hit. Relative to passing attempts, he wasn't hit that often.

Regarding FS: According to SteelbTexan, even if Troy Nolan turns into Ronnie Lott, it still won't help us make the playoffs if Chris Myers is on the team.

Where do you recall this stat coming from?

Can I guess? It came out your butt

I wouldn't count on Nolan being Lott.

But my thoughts about Myers stand. If he improves to average that will be an improvement. IMHO

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 09:08 PM
bottom line is that we had arguably 4 needs CB,C,RB,FS in the draft, so something wasn't going to get filled.

so no matter how the Texans drafted this year, some discussion would have came up.. if we took CB and Center in the first 2 rounds .. we'd be talking about a lack of one of the top RB's in the draft. We draft a CB and RB .. well we are talking about FS and Center in this thread

pick your poison.
:handshake:

Trading the 4th Rd picks to move up ad take the highest S (Burnett) or C (Walton) would've helped. Smithiak decided to take Graham and Sharpton (who didn't fill a major need) instead. Time will tell if they made the right call.

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 10:08 PM
AGAIN....AS LONG AS CHRIS MYERS IS BLOCKING FOR MATT AND ESPECIALLY WITH OUR SCHEDULE AND THE 3-4s(BIG DTS) THAT WE WILL BE FACING, I'M NOT CONFIDENT IN MATT'S ABILITY TO LAST A FULL SEASON WITH MR. DROP CLOTH IN FRONT OF HIM.

Does anyone know of a sight that breaks down how offensive linemen did in regards to stats?

I could have sworn Winston gave up more sacks than Myers.

I thought Winston gave up more sacks than anyone.

thunderkyss
05-04-2010, 10:18 PM
All of the stats in the world dont mean a thing.

logically, the case can be made that the stats show obvious improvement on the team. A steady progression on the offensive side of the ball. A dramatic step up on the defensive side of the ball.

It would follow, the teams goals are within reach, which should give even the casual fan reason to be optimistic of the upcoming season.

I don't have a problem with fans expressing anger and dislike about the direction and management of the team. But I am curious, if the outlook is so poor, why spend so much time on this message board talking about team? Do you believe your comments here will some-how change the direction the team is going?

If your outlook of the team is so bad, why do you put yourself through this every year??

If Myers is the starting Center in 2010 (& I don't think he will be) are you going to invest any more time watching the Texans?

JB
05-04-2010, 10:24 PM
logically, the case can be made that the stats show obvious improvement on the team. A steady progression on the offensive side of the ball. A dramatic step up on the defensive side of the ball.

It would follow, the teams goals are within reach, which should give even the casual fan reason to be optimistic of the upcoming season.

I don't have a problem with fans expressing anger and dislike about the direction and management of the team. But I am curious, if the outlook is so poor, why spend so much time on this message board talking about team? Do you believe your comments here will some-how change the direction the team is going?

If your outlook of the team is so bad, why do you put yourself through this every year??

If Myers is the starting Center in 2010 (& I don't think he will be) are you going to invest any more time watching the Texans?

NO you didn't! :foottap:

Don't be bringing no logic or common sense around heah! :bat:

Honoring Earl 34
05-04-2010, 10:37 PM
logically, the case can be made that the stats show obvious improvement on the team. A steady progression on the offensive side of the ball. A dramatic step up on the defensive side of the ball.

It would follow, the teams goals are within reach, which should give even the casual fan reason to be optimistic of the upcoming season.

I don't have a problem with fans expressing anger and dislike about the direction and management of the team. But I am curious, if the outlook is so poor, why spend so much time on this message board talking about team? Do you believe your comments here will some-how change the direction the team is going?

If your outlook of the team is so bad, why do you put yourself through this every year??

If Myers is the starting Center in 2010 (& I don't think he will be) are you going to invest any more time watching the Texans?

Yep ... if you can't be happy and optimistic now , when can you be .

Things that are more important than a new FS and C going into 2010 .

1. Schaub remains healthy .
2. AJ remains healthy
3. Ryans " "
4. Cushing " "
5. Mario " "
6. Pollard " "
7. Mario returns to form
8. Tate takes off
9. Kareem is the real deal
10. Kris starts hitting Fgs again
11. Okoye steps up
12 . Glover avoids soph jinx
13. JJ remains focussed .
14. Slaton regains form
15. Daniels gets 100%
16. Caldwell steps up at G/C
17. Briesel gets healthy.
18. Studdard turns into Larry Allen
19. Barwin becomes a beast
20. Antonio starts like he finished
21. Eugene is ready
22. Walter keeps playing well.
23. Cedric makes Meyers into Dermonti Dawson .

Texan_Bill
05-04-2010, 10:45 PM
logically, the case can be made that the stats show obvious improvement on the team. A steady progression on the offensive side of the ball. A dramatic step up on the defensive side of the ball.

It would follow, the teams goals are within reach, which should give even the casual fan reason to be optimistic of the upcoming season.

I don't have a problem with fans expressing anger and dislike about the direction and management of the team. But I am curious, if the outlook is so poor, why spend so much time on this message board talking about team? Do you believe your comments here will some-how change the direction the team is going?

If your outlook of the team is so bad, why do you put yourself through this every year??

If Myers is the starting Center in 2010 (& I don't think he will be) are you going to invest any more time watching the Texans?

Don't know, but the Texans ranked 5th for sacks allowed (in a good way). Considering the fact that the Tinnbreds ranked ahead of us and the number of passing attempts, the Texans O-line generally did pretty well. As far as Myers goes, I have no hate for the guy, but he flat out can be manhandled at times.

Texan_Bill
05-04-2010, 10:49 PM
Furthermore, the Texans ranked 29th with regards to:

Rush Pwr = Percentage of rushes on 3rd or 4th down with 2 or fewer yards to go that achieved a first down or TD. Also includes rushes on 1st-and-goal and 2nd-and-goal from the opponent's 2-yard line or closer

Linkage: NFl.com (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE _LINE&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=RUSHING_CENTER_POWER&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1)

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 11:20 PM
logically, the case can be made that the stats show obvious improvement on the team. A steady progression on the offensive side of the ball. A dramatic step up on the defensive side of the ball.

It would follow, the teams goals are within reach, which should give even the casual fan reason to be optimistic of the upcoming season.

I don't have a problem with fans expressing anger and dislike about the direction and management of the team. But I am curious, if the outlook is so poor, why spend so much time on this message board talking about team? Do you believe your comments here will some-how change the direction the team is going?

If your outlook of the team is so bad, why do you put yourself through this every year??

If Myers is the starting Center in 2010 (& I don't think he will be) are you going to invest any more time watching the Texans?

Because I have and will remain a Texan fan. I enjoy the back and forth banter. You are a realistic Texan fan. People cant see the problems with the organization are the ones who I call out. This doesn't mean I'm not a fan.

Look at the Texans and the progress they are making. It's a good thing but they dont seem to be willing to step out of their comfort zone. Are the Texans improved this year? Sure

But ask me if the Colts, Tacks, Ravens,Redskins,Eagles heck even the Raiders have improved.

Have the Texans improved enough this offseason to make the playoffs? No IMHO But I'm still a fan. I will remain a fan long after Smithiak are gone.

The Texans take on the personality of McNair (overly conservative) Smithiak and on down to the ushers getting on fans at the stadium for standing or banging beer bottles together.

I dont buy what Smithiak are selling and hope the next management team that are brought in will be a Parcells type guy. A proven winner, Somebody that will say to McNair if you want a winner you cant be so conservative.

McNair hasn't gotten over being burned by Casserly. He's going to have to get over that if the Texans are going to be a successful organization.

I believe the talent was good enough to make the playoffs last year. But on field coaching and a conservative FO killed their playoff chances.

In short I will remain a fan because I believe the Texans will eventually become a really good playoff team. Just not with Smithiak.

JB
05-04-2010, 11:35 PM
So basically SteelB, you are looking for the Phoenix, while McNair & co. are raising the Roc?

steelbtexan
05-04-2010, 11:39 PM
So basically SteelB, you are looking for the Phoenix, while McNair & co. are raising the Roc?

Never heard it put that way.

But you're correct sir.

JB
05-04-2010, 11:43 PM
Never heard it put that way.

But you're correct sir.

And you do understand that the phoenix flames out just as fast as it flares to brilliance, correct?

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 11:43 PM
Does anyone know of a sight that breaks down how offensive linemen did in regards to stats?

I could have sworn Winston gave up more sacks than Myers.

I thought Winston gave up more sacks than anyone.

I can live with the sacks by Winston, because atleast he's good with run blocking and he isn't absolutely atrocious with his pass blocking.

But also when you're center allows a pocket to get pushed back towards the QB, that doesn't exactly help out your tackles. It's the same thing we want on our defense.....a DT that can push the pocket back into the QBs face so our end (mainly Mario) can get to the QB more. Well on offense we have a center who doesn't maintain the integrity of the pocket.

Carr Bombed
05-04-2010, 11:49 PM
logically, the case can be made that the stats show obvious improvement on the team. A steady progression on the offensive side of the ball. A dramatic step up on the defensive side of the ball.

It would follow, the teams goals are within reach, which should give even the casual fan reason to be optimistic of the upcoming season.

I don't have a problem with fans expressing anger and dislike about the direction and management of the team. But I am curious, if the outlook is so poor, why spend so much time on this message board talking about team? Do you believe your comments here will some-how change the direction the team is going?

If your outlook of the team is so bad, why do you put yourself through this every year??

If Myers is the starting Center in 2010 (& I don't think he will be) are you going to invest any more time watching the Texans?

I thought the point of a message board was to discuss the team. Just because I can't stand the performance of our starting center that doesn't mean I'm not excited about next season and am not a "fan". It just means I can identify a glaring hole....a glaring hole that I think is going to rear it's ugly head, because well.....it has time and time again in the past.

I hope I'm wrong about my "the Texans won't make the playoffs with Myers as their starting center" prediction, but until that happens, I'm not changing that prediction. Hopefully we don't even have to see them try to make the playoffs with him snapping the ball....hopefully someone beats him out in camp.

steelbtexan
05-05-2010, 12:01 AM
And you do understand that the phoenix flames out just as fast as it flares to brilliance, correct?

After 8 yrs I will take a pheonix.

Then rebuild and have another pheonix within 5 yrs. Just because you invest in FA doesn't mean your team will flame out. (Vikings)

But that's just me.

I wish we could be talking about a Texans playoff experience and how they could improve to get over the top.

Unfortunately that will have to wait until another offseason.

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 12:05 AM
People cant see the problems with the organization are the ones who I call out. This doesn't mean I'm not a fan.

Everybody sees problems with the organization. You're not alone. We can't all be right. Personally, I just don't like your "stats don't mean anything" or whatever. They don't mean what you think we are saying it means. We don't think they mean anything other than what they mean.

I'm not questioning your "fan-hood" I tried to not give off that impression.

Look at the Texans and the progress they are making. It's a good thing but they dont seem to be willing to step out of their comfort zone. Are the Texans improved this year? Sure

Great, let's go find a thread where we can go talk about how our team has improved. Then you'll be like the rest of us, sharing in the good and the bad.

But ask me if the Colts, Tacks, Ravens,Redskins,Eagles heck even the Raiders have improved.

True. Offensively, I think we were as good as any of them... moving the ball, scoring... we're right there. Need to get better at running the ball. Defensively, I think we're as good as any of them.

We had some maturity issues, some coaching issues, a lot of choking issues...
But I think the growth we've seen, maturity wise, through-out the season (on the field, and on the side lines) will be the x factor that will finally put us on even footing with the best in the NFL.

Have the Texans improved enough this offseason to make the playoffs? No IMHO But I'm still a fan. I will remain a fan long after Smithiak are gone.

& that's what I'm asking about. If your outlook is so low, what are you going to be watching? Are you going to be hoping they prove you wrong, and send Chris Myers to the Pro-Bowl? Are you going to be watching, hoping to be proven right, and Myers get Schaub killed? Are you going to notice Winston give up more sacks than Myers, which he has the last two years?

I dont buy what Smithiak are selling and hope the next management team that are brought in will be a Parcells type guy. A proven winner, Somebody that will say to McNair if you want a winner you cant be so conservative.

Technically, we were winners last year. I like that Kubiak isn't so conservative that he won't start a rookie... Wali Lundy, Glover Quinn, to name a couple. I hope we can see more 2 minute offense... but if they keep screwing it up, I hope Kubiak pulls them back before we get into "missing the play-offs again" jeopordy. I have no problem not wanting to pay Haynesworth $100 mil. I have no problem passing on Cedric Benson (at least they've done their due dillegence, brought him in, and looked at him twice..) I don't understand not bringning Larry Johnson in, even if we had to sign him to a crazy 1 year deal.

In short I will remain a fan because I believe the Texans will eventually become a really good playoff team. Just not with Smithiak.

So what are you expecting to see in 2010? Good football? A joke? Is it going to be close?

Carr Bombed
05-05-2010, 12:05 AM
Let's put it this way.......I'd gladly take the experience and toughness a 39 year old Kevin Mawae would bring over a 29 (when the season starts) Chris Myers. At worst (if he's fallen off due to age) he'd atleast push Myers and would give us a great option to stick out there when we need tough rushing yards.

dalemurphy
05-05-2010, 12:09 AM
Excuses for $1000 please.

You're doing a great job Dale.

Excuse for what? I'm simply arguing that they could realistically make the playoffs with Myers at center.

Carr Bombed
05-05-2010, 12:14 AM
Excuse for what? I'm simply arguing that they could realistically make the playoffs with Myers at center.

They could and I hope to god it happens...but with this schedule where we play all the type of players our starting center struggles against I don't see it happening. Again, I hope I'm wrong......I'd LOVE TO BE WRONG. But I'm not going to ignore past shortcomings/results, watch the team do the same thing AGAIN, and expect a different result. Still hope against hope somehow we get a different result though...just won't expect it.

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 12:31 AM
I thought the point of a message board was to discuss the team. Just because I can't stand the performance of our starting center that doesn't mean I'm not excited about next season and am not a "fan". It just means I can identify a glaring hole....a glaring hole that I think is going to rear it's ugly head, because well.....it has time and time again in the past.

Let's not play the, "don't question my fan-hood" stuff. That's not where I'm going. If you don't think we have a chance... what are you going to be watching? Are you going to pay to go see a pathetic excuse of a team aimlessly trot around the field for 3 hours? Are you going to be zeroed in on Myers?

I honestly think if we had a center, who was capable to start for an offense that threw for 4000 yards, or can start for a team with a 1300 yard rusher, with a better than average defense, we can go deep into the play-offs.

If only we could find a guy like that.

Carr Bombed
05-05-2010, 12:48 AM
Let's not play the, "don't question my fan-hood" stuff. That's not where I'm going. If you don't think we have a chance... what are you going to be watching? Are you going to pay to go see a pathetic excuse of a team aimlessly trot around the field for 3 hours? Are you going to be zeroed in on Myers?

I honestly think if we had a center, who was capable to start for an offense that threw for 4000 yards, or can start for a team with a 1300 yard rusher, with a better than average defense, we can go deep into the play-offs.

If only we could find a guy like that.

LMAO.......dude give me a break.

You're going to ask what I'm going to be doing on Sundays when I've watched every game this team has ever played (even when I knew we couldn't do crap with David Carr) and then type the "let's not play the don't question my fanhood card...that's not where I'm going" Umm, that's exactly where you're going.

And don't even try to give Myers all the props for what we've been able to do on offense, we've done that in spite of him. AGAIN......HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS TEAM COME UP SHORT IN THE RED ZONE BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO GET A IMPORTANT YARD UP THE MIDDLE. or....HOW MANY TIMES HAS MYERS BEEN BLOWN OFF THE BALL AND EMBARRASSED. If you're just going to sit there and ignore his obvious shortcomings, you're just ignoring the obvious.

Where have all those 4,000+ passing seasons and the one good rushing season we did have with him get us (have we've been to the playoffs yet?...no we haven't and we've only had one...ONE WINING SEASON..(a season where we should've and were expected to make the playoffs), one winning season when everybody expected us to break through and become a dominant team the last couple of years and we weren't able to, because we were unable to convert goal line/short yardage situations when it mattered the most (like we've done the entire time he's been our starter even with a 1,200 yard rusher) and we've completely sucked in the red zone the entire time he's been our starting center......THAT'S THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM. We have no problem putting up great #s in between the 20s, but as far as being able to put up and get the meat and potatoes numbers (red zone) with Myers....yeah we suck at that and he's a BIG problem in that area.

I question all of this, because I'M A FAN of this team and care about the direction of this team. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be so critical and wouldn't spend my time typing all this crap. Myers needs to be replaced and I've been saying that for like 2 years now. He's not a starting caliber center on a playoff caliber team and has been one of the main reasons why this team year in and year out doesn't live up to preseason expectations and happens to come up short year in....and year out, but we're just supposed to watch the same thing every year and expect something different with him. If it happens GREAT!, but like I said above, I will not expect it. I hope like hell it happens and like I said last season....I hope like hell this opinion/post gets bumped with a big giant "I TOLD YOU SO", because that means the Texans had a great year with Myers at center (a year that extends past the regular season) and that means everybody is happy (even me). I just don't expect it to get bumped....that is all.

dalemurphy
05-05-2010, 12:50 AM
They could and I hope to god it happens...but with this schedule where we play all the type of players our starting center struggles against I don't see it happening. Again, I hope I'm wrong......I'd LOVE TO BE WRONG. But I'm not going to ignore past shortcomings/results, watch the team do the same thing AGAIN, and expect a different result. Still hope against hope somehow we get a different result though...just won't expect it.

He's got a lot of players to beat out... only 3 of these guys will play: Wade Smith, Caldwell, Studdard, Shelly Smith, Chris White, Briesel, Chris Myers.

Carr Bombed
05-05-2010, 01:01 AM
He's got a lot of players to beat out... only 3 of these guys will play: Wade Smith, Caldwell, Studdard, Shelly Smith, Chris White, Briesel, Chris Myers.

That's fine....I hope he gets beat out. I was excited when we drafted Caldwell, because he was a solid prospect who played in the SEC. Hopefully he's the guy, but it was kind of a let down when they went with Myers after he got completely owned week one and then stuck Caldwell at guard. It just seems this coaching staff has some kind of infatuation with Myers at center...and if they keep on doing it, it's going to be their undoing.

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 01:32 AM
LMAO.......dude give me a break.
Umm, that's exactly where you're going.

Let's try it this way.

You're a fan. I get it. I don't doubt it.

What get's you excited on Sunday? Let's talk about that, instead of the same old crap that has you pissing vinegar all the time.

And don't even try to give Myers all the props that we have had on offense, we've done that in spite of him.


definitely one way to look at it. But when Schaub is one of the least sacked QBs in the league, when the stats show Myers doing his job, and not giving up sacks, maybe we should give the man a little credit.

& saying Slaton ran for 1,282 yards inspite of his Center, is like saying Chris Johnson would have rushed for 2000 yards on any NFL team. If you want to say Slaton would have ran for 2000 if that was Mawae in front of him, I can go with... but in spite of... I'm not seeing it.

AGAIN......HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS TEAM COME UP SHORT IN THE RED ZONE BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO GET A IMPORTANT YARD UP THE MIDDLE.

Twice, maybe three times... I don't know how many times?

or....HOW MANY TIMES HAS MYERS BEEN BLOWN OFF THE BALL AND EMBARRASSED.

Once?

If you're just going to sit there and ignore his obvious shortcomings, you're just ignoring the obvious.

I'm all for replacing Chris Myers, I'm not saying he's our best option. I'm just saying he's started on some pretty potent offenses.

Where have all those 4,000+ passing seasons and the one good rushing season we did have with him get us (have we've been to the playoffs yet...no we haven't and we've only had one...ONE WINING SEASON),


Give me the 4000 yard season, with a 1200 yard rusher, and a 13th rank defense, all in the same year, and we'll have a winning season every time.

because we were unable to convert a goal line/short yardage situation when it mattered and we've completely sucked in the red zone the entire time he's been our starting center......THAT'S THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM.

Has anyone seen the numbers of our 2009 Redzone efficiency?? I couldn't find it.

I question all of this, because I'M A FAN of this team and care about the direction of this team.


I'm not questioning this.

If I didn't care, I wouldn't be so critical and wouldn't spend my time typing all this crap.


obvious

Myers needs to be replaced and I've been saying that for like 2 years now. He's not a starting caliber center on a playoff caliber team and has been one of the main reasons why this team year in and year out doesn't live up to preseason expectations, but we're just supposed to watch the same thing every year and expect something different with him.

well, we did get a 1282 yard rusher with him as the starting center one year, and a 4000 yard passer another. We led the league in passing actually. In 2009, only 9 teams scored more points if that means anything.

Carr Bombed
05-05-2010, 01:51 AM
Let's try it this way.

You're a fan. I get it. I don't doubt it.

What get's you excited on Sunday? Let's talk about that, instead of the same old crap that has you pissing vinegar all the time.

LMAO, how the hell am I always "pissing vinegar all the time"? I'm not a "negative Nancy" with every position with this team, I just don't agree with one position/decision with the roster. (it's just a positon/decision that I think is going to hold us back next year, because it has the past two years) And frankly I don't have enough time left tonight to talk about "what gets me excited about next year".

definitely one way to look at it. But when Schaub is one of the least sacked QBs in the league, when the stats show Myers doing his job, and not giving up sacks, maybe we should give the man a little credit.

Umm, check a previous post, I already explained this...props need to be given to Schaub for not being sacked alot, not his interior line.

& saying Slaton ran for 1,282 yards inspite of his Center, is like saying Chris Johnson would have rushed for 2000 yards on any NFL team. If you want to say Slaton would have ran for 2000 if that was Mawae in front of him, I can go with... but in spite of... I'm not seeing it.

LMAO, please post where I said that? I NEVER said Slaton got 1,200 yards despite Myers. I said Myers sucked in the red zone and he did....EVEN with Slaton. NEWSFLASH Houston still SUCKED running the ball in the red zone last year with a 1,200 yard Slaton.

I'm all for replacing Chris Myers, I'm not saying he's our best option. I'm just saying he's started on some pretty potent offenses..

And I said that too, but that's not a reason to keep him when we haven't done crap with that "potent offense". The reason why this team isn't and hasn't gone anywhere is because of the red zone/short yardage deficientcies.....THAT'S WHERE MYERS STRUGGLES, THAT'S WHERE I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HIM.

Give me the 4000 yard season, with a 1200 yard rusher, and a 13th rank defense, all in the same year, and we'll have a winning season every time.

With Chris Myers we'll never have all of that in a same season...I really don't understand this post. One of our main problems last season wasn't just the runningbacks, it was our runningbacks getting tackled behind the line of scrimmage and not even having a hole to run through. Hell give me a million dollars....I'll throw kick ass parties every weekend. The proof is in the production...and that production hasn't been there consistently with Myers.

Has anyone seen the numbers of our 2009 Redzone efficiency?? I couldn't find it.

I haven't but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't all that great seeing that's the reason why we lost alot of games.


well, we did get a 1282 yard rusher with him as the starting center one year, and a 4000 yard passer another. We led the league in passing actually. In 2009, only 9 teams scored more points if that means anything.

Yeah, we did have a kick ass rusher ONE YEAR......how did we do in redzone/short yardage situations that year? Umm not good. Again...meat and potatoes. I don't give a crap about in between the 20's anymore. We've kicked ass at that the last couple of season...where has it gotten us? Even with this 1,200 yard rusher, how did we do in the redzone? NOT GOOD.

I also don't care about how many points we scored.....what DID WE DO IN THE RED ZONE OR IN SHORT YARDAGE SITUATIONS TO CLOSE OUT GAMES? That is what's killing us.

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 05:09 AM
I also don't care about how many points we scored.....what DID WE DO IN THE RED ZONE OR IN SHORT YARDAGE SITUATIONS TO CLOSE OUT GAMES? That is what's killing us.

I just happened to be watching the Nov 29 game against the Colts. I know this is an isolated incident, but I thought I'd share anyway.

2:20 left in the 1st Qtr. We have the ball on the 6 yard line. 2nd & 2. We run the ball straight up the middle, for 6 yards and a touchdown.

Chris Brown is the Tailback, Myers at Center, and White at guard.

76Texan
05-05-2010, 05:17 AM
The same week that Myers was slapped by Jenkins, Unger was slapped just as badly by a reserve DT and played a very poor game at Guard.

While long term he may become a decent center, if you just take one example (one game - a few plays) to define a player, then you should cross out Max Unger.

....

Mawae played horrible last year.
He allowed penetration all over the place.
The QBs had to scramble a lot.
It was one of the reasons of Collins' undoing.

Also, the Tacks ranked 27th in running up the middle while the Texans ranked 11th
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

......

Myers had done well against a lot of big 3-4 NT, including Hampton, Ngata, Rogers, Haynesworth.
In those games, it would be either Brisiel or Pitts that were ummaned, mostly Brisiel.

.....
At any rate, if the main concern is with Schaub getting hit, you guys who pick on Myers for that don't have much beef.
Especially against the 3-4, our tackles haven't done good enough of a job picking up the blitz.
Or they would get beat by the DEs.
That's where the worries should lie.

76Texan
05-05-2010, 05:55 AM
I just happened to be watching the Nov 29 game against the Colts. I know this is an isolated incident, but I thought I'd share anyway.

2:20 left in the 1st Qtr. We have the ball on the 6 yard line. 2nd & 2. We run the ball straight up the middle, for 6 yards and a touchdown.

Chris Brown is the Tailback, Myers at Center, and White at guard.

In the game against the Jags, the fumble by Brown on the goal line was due to his own fault.
But Brisiel couldn't get hardly any push, and Walter was manhandled by Mathis.

Carr Bombed
05-05-2010, 06:23 AM
I just happened to be watching the Nov 29 game against the Colts. I know this is an isolated incident, but I thought I'd share anyway.

2:20 left in the 1st Qtr. We have the ball on the 6 yard line. 2nd & 2. We run the ball straight up the middle, for 6 yards and a touchdown.

Chris Brown is the Tailback, Myers at Center, and White at guard.

:rolleyes: That's like me pulling up a "isolated incident" of Okoye getting penetration in the backfield. What's the point? It doesn't prove anything, especially when INDY fields one of the smallest Dlines in the league.

Carr Bombed
05-05-2010, 06:26 AM
The same week that Myers was slapped by Jenkins, Unger was slapped just as badly by a reserve DT and played a very poor game at Guard.

While long term he may become a decent center, if you just take one example (one game - a few plays) to define a player, then you should cross out Max Unger.

....

Mawae played horrible last year.
He allowed penetration all over the place.
The QBs had to scramble a lot.
It was one of the reasons of Collins' undoing.

Also, the Tacks ranked 27th in running up the middle while the Texans ranked 11th
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

......

Myers had done well against a lot of big 3-4 NT, including Hampton, Ngata, Rogers, Haynesworth.
In those games, it would be either Brisiel or Pitts that were ummaned, mostly Brisiel.

.....
At any rate, if the main concern is with Schaub getting hit, you guys who pick on Myers for that don't have much beef.
Especially against the 3-4, our tackles haven't done good enough of a job picking up the blitz.
Or they would get beat by the DEs.
That's where the worries should lie.


Yeah, I'd love to see a video of "Unger being slapped just as bad".... I doubt he was tossed aside like a child the way Myers was.

Even so, he was a rookie. I'd be able to deal with that, because he's going to improve and get better. Unlike a 28 year old who's still getting beat down and tossed aside like a rag doll.

P.S.

It doesn't matter how bad Mawae was last season......he was still better than Myers and our tackles haven't been the main problem when facing 3-4s either. Anybody remember Slaton getting tackled by Myers his rookie season? Remember when Myers was thrown into the backfield at Slaton?

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 09:18 AM
Myers had done well against a lot of big 3-4 NT, including Hampton, Ngata, Rogers, Haynesworth.
In those games, it would be either Brisiel or Pitts that were ummaned, mostly Brisiel.

.....
At any rate, if the main concern is with Schaub getting hit, you guys who pick on Myers for that don't have much beef.
Especially against the 3-4, our tackles haven't done good enough of a job picking up the blitz.
Or they would get beat by the DEs.
That's where the worries should lie.

Which was the case in the Jets game. Myers was rag-dolled that one time, it got put on TV & the commentators couldn't stop talking about it. But every other time (or most every other time) Jenkins was on Matt, it was Pitts that got beat, and pushed around. But he's a hero around here????

Honoring Earl 34
05-05-2010, 09:35 AM
Which was the case in the Jets game. Myers was rag-dolled that one time, it got put on TV & the commentators couldn't stop talking about it. But every other time (or most every other time) Jenkins was on Matt, it was Pitts that got beat, and pushed around. But he's a hero around here????

Isn't the centers main job to make the line calls ? That the #1 thing is smarts and most are not big .

The Cowboys of the 90's had Mark Stepnoski at C and he may have weighed 265 . He was flanked by Nate Newton and Larry Allen , who weighed about 330 a piece .

The prototype for ZBS centers is Tom Nalen who was small but strong as an ox .

Second Honeymoon
05-05-2010, 09:41 AM
are people actually trying to pretend that Myers is decent? really?

Myers is garbage. utter garbage.

as for McNair, he is not doing what it takes to put the best team on the field
his penny pinching ways have made this team less competitive than last year

we had less holes going into last season than we will this year
they say they are building through the draft and too cheap to sign decent FAs this year, but then in teh draft they neglect critical areas of need

i hope the Texans season works out but if it doesn't, at least we can finally get rid of Gary the flatliner and get a decent head coach...but thanks largely to McNair's greed, we probably wont have a season in 2011 anyway....

...but whatever, McNair donated the team to the city out of the kindness of his heart and for that he should be worshipped and given long sensual massages by the Sunshine Crew. Oh wait, he has increased the value of his franchise over half a billion and has still called for a bailout and cried poverty. maybe it wasn't a donation after all, mensas.

just put a winning product on the field or get rid of these clowns and put together a team that can win. when we are 7-9 or worse this year, all the Sunshine kids can thank McNair for bringing football back to Houston...again. and while they are at it they can thank him for a decade of losing football....which is all that he has brought us. period.

dalemurphy
05-05-2010, 09:52 AM
are people actually trying to pretend that Myers is decent? really?

Myers is garbage. utter garbage.

as for McNair, he is not doing what it takes to put the best team on the field
his penny pinching ways have made this team less competitive than last year

we had less holes going into last season than we will this year
they say they are building through the draft and too cheap to sign decent FAs this year, but then in teh draft they neglect critical areas of need

i hope the Texans season works out but if it doesn't, at least we can finally get rid of Gary the flatliner and get a decent head coach...but thanks largely to McNair's greed, we probably wont have a season in 2011 anyway....

...but whatever, McNair donated the team to the city out of the kindness of his heart and for that he should be worshipped and given long sensual massages by the Sunshine Crew. Oh wait, he has increased the value of his franchise over half a billion and has still called for a bailout and cried poverty. maybe it wasn't a donation after all, mensas.

just put a winning product on the field or get rid of these clowns and put together a team that can win. when we are 7-9 or worse this year, all the Sunshine kids can thank McNair for bringing football back to Houston...again. and while they are at it they can thank him for a decade of losing football....which is all that he has brought us. period.


SH, didn't you predict a 6-10 season for last year?

who are these magic free agent centers that McNair should've spent money on? I'm curious what all your research and scouting on Wade Smith uncovered. Apparently, you've determined that he is not very good and there were better options available... who?

When has McNair cried poverty? I have never heard him complain about his financial situation or the Texans' financial situation.

Chris Myers is "utter garbage" because he has a weakness in his game? wow! Nevermind the fact that the guy is a very good second level blocker, very good on screen passes, very good making line calls, and servicable in most areas except handling a one on one bull rush against an elite NT.

I'd love to quiz you on your knowledg of centers around the NFL. I'm sure you've really studied up on them. LOL!

dalemurphy
05-05-2010, 09:54 AM
Isn't the centers main job to make the line calls ? That the #1 thing is smarts and most are not big .

The Cowboys of the 90's had Mark Stepnoski at C and he may have weighed 265 . He was flanked by Nate Newton and Larry Allen , who weighed about 330 a piece .
The prototype for ZBS centers is Tom Nalen who was small but strong as an ox .

I think this is key. I think Myers is much better when flanked by stronger, thicker guards. Replacing Studdard with Wade Smith on one side and having Caldwell on the other side should make the line much stronger than Studdard and Chris White at guards.

Honoring Earl 34
05-05-2010, 09:55 AM
are people actually trying to pretend that Myers is decent? really?

Myers is garbage. utter garbage.

as for McNair, he is not doing what it takes to put the best team on the field
his penny pinching ways have made this team less competitive than last year

we had less holes going into last season than we will this year
they say they are building through the draft and too cheap to sign decent FAs this year, but then in teh draft they neglect critical areas of need

i hope the Texans season works out but if it doesn't, at least we can finally get rid of Gary the flatliner and get a decent head coach...but thanks largely to McNair's greed, we probably wont have a season in 2011 anyway....

...but whatever, McNair donated the team to the city out of the kindness of his heart and for that he should be worshipped and given long sensual massages by the Sunshine Crew. Oh wait, he has increased the value of his franchise over half a billion and has still called for a bailout and cried poverty. maybe it wasn't a donation after all, mensas.

just put a winning product on the field or get rid of these clowns and put together a team that can win. when we are 7-9 or worse this year, all the Sunshine kids can thank McNair for bringing football back to Houston...again. and while they are at it they can thank him for a decade of losing football....which is all that he has brought us. period.

Nope ... I think Myers is average at best . I think the guy with best chance of beating him out is already on the roster and not a rookie 3rd round pick .

As far as McNair goes , he does worry to much about the image of his team . That has lead to some bad choices but hopefully that's past that . The other side of the coin is Jerry Jones who is all glitz and glamor . Even to the point of trading for Dez and not picking an OT ... till I think the 5th . OT's don't sell tickets I guess and Jerrah's got a lot to sell .

So at the end of the day , I don't think the Texans fate is in the hands of the FS or C . It's holding on to the ball and making FG's at the end . It's taking the game and not waiting for the other team to give it away . It's someone stepping up to make a play . It's not being denied . It's the will to win . It's tasting blood and going for the throat . It's walking on the field and thinking your the team to beat every game . It's popping someone in the mouth .

HOU-TEX
05-05-2010, 10:01 AM
We had Studdard, Myers and White/Caldwell manning the interior last season, right? When Studdard performs the best out of all 4 of them, you know the interior of the Oline's going to suck.

I think everyone knows my stance on Myers by now so I'll leave it at that. But let's look at the RG position. Kubiak began rotating White and Caldwell in order to get one of them to take the position by the huevos...they didn't!

IMO, if Wade Smith is anything the coaches say he is then he'll be an instant upgrade at either of the 3 positions. Okay, 1 of the 3 is now upgraded (supposedely), now what? Is Caldwell finally going to TAKE a job from the others? Is Myers going to suddenly get better after 3 seasons? Pffft! White? Pffft! All right Shelley, you're up!

See my point? The interior is still a major concern. Y'all are discussing their pass blocking for Schaub? Pffft! Their run blocking is even worse.

dalemurphy
05-05-2010, 10:07 AM
We had Studdard, Myers and White/Caldwell manning the interior last season, right? When Studdard performs the best out of all 4 of them, you know the interior of the Oline's going to suck.

I think everyone knows my stance on Myers by now so I'll leave it at that. But let's look at the RG position. Kubiak began rotating White and Caldwell in order to get one of them to take the position by the huevos...they didn't!

IMO, if Wade Smith is anything the coaches say he is then he'll be an instant upgrade at either of the 3 positions. Okay, 1 of the 3 is now upgraded (supposedely), now what? Is Caldwell finally going to TAKE a job from the others? Is Myers going to suddenly get better after 3 seasons? Pffft! White? Pffft! All right Shelley, you're up!

See my point? The interior is still a major concern. Y'all are discussing their pass blocking for Schaub? Pffft! Their run blocking is even worse.


Caldwell is likely to be much better this year. I thought he looked pretty good by midway through last season. Also, Briesel will be back from IR. So, yeah, there is reason to be optimistic about improvements on the interior oline. You are right about the run blocking! It was awful last season. I thought Studdard and White were both really bad. I don't think White makes the team and I don't think Studdard will be starting. While I wasn't impressed with Myers last year either, I'm somewhat comforted to recall his performance in '08, when he had better guards surrounding him.

Honoring Earl 34
05-05-2010, 10:12 AM
We had Studdard, Myers and White/Caldwell manning the interior last season, right? When Studdard performs the best out of all 4 of them, you know the interior of the Oline's going to suck.

I think everyone knows my stance on Myers by now so I'll leave it at that. But let's look at the RG position. Kubiak began rotating White and Caldwell in order to get one of them to take the position by the huevos...they didn't!

IMO, if Wade Smith is anything the coaches say he is then he'll be an instant upgrade at either of the 3 positions. Okay, 1 of the 3 is now upgraded (supposedely), now what? Is Caldwell finally going to TAKE a job from the others? Is Myers going to suddenly get better after 3 seasons? Pffft! White? Pffft! All right Shelley, you're up!

See my point? The interior is still a major concern. Y'all are discussing their pass blocking for Schaub? Pffft! Their run blocking is even worse.

I think it's easier to find guards with a gut , big butt , short waisted ( stumpy legs ) and a decent athlete who's strong and can get low , than it is to find a smaller guy who's strong enough to hold up but quick enough to get to the second layer . To add to the equation , the guys got to be willing to cut block . I read somewhere that that was Pitt's downfall .

Tangent alert ... remember Fat Albert calling the Texans dirty when Gibb's got here , before the Texans even practiced . They were in folks head and pissed it away by not cracking someone . Take the 15 yds and get in their heads .

Ole Miss Texan
05-05-2010, 10:14 AM
they say they are building through the draft and too cheap to sign decent FAs this year, but then in teh draft they neglect critical areas of need.
Cornerback - Need Area 1a
http://blog.al.com/tidecorner/2008/04/medium_kjack.JPG

Runningback - Need Area 1b
http://www.tigersx.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/AU_Ben_Tate_BSU_cw.jpg

Defensive Tackle - Need Area 3-5
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Arizona+v+USC+PJP_YhjxKdBl.jpg

HOU-TEX
05-05-2010, 10:18 AM
Caldwell is likely to be much better this year. I thought he looked pretty good by midway through last season. Also, Briesel will be back from IR. So, yeah, there is reason to be optimistic about improvements on the interior oline. You are right about the run blocking! It was awful last season. I thought Studdard and White were both really bad. I don't think White makes the team and I don't think Studdard will be starting. While I wasn't impressed with Myers last year either, I'm somewhat comforted to recall his performance in '08, when he had better guards surrounding him.

We would think Caldwell would improve, but we don't know. Brisiel is coming back, but will he rebound and play like the end of 08? He wasn't really performing all that well either before he went down.

As much as you dislike Studdard, I thought he played better than the other 3 (not saying much). I think Pitts was missed more than we think. I've been wanting him back, but I'm beginning to lose confidence in that happening.

In the end, the interior will still have the most unanswered questions than any other position. IMO

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 10:38 AM
are people actually trying to pretend that Myers is decent? really?

Myers is garbage. utter garbage.

Whelp... there you go. Case closed.

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 10:44 AM
Chris Myers is "utter garbage" because he has a weakness in his game? LOL!

To be fair, he has other weaknesses... he isn't very strong, he won't get a push up the middle... which makes you wonder why we try. He also has a tendency to vacate the middle, when helping Studdard. I never seen him doing it when helping on the right. But I never seen the guy on the right totally abandon Myers for absolutely no reason either.

But when he goes to assist Studdard, he takes his eyes off the middle of the field, and allows a delayed blitzer unimpeded access to our QB.

But yeah, I think "utter garbage" is a little strong. If only we paid a lot of money for him on the Free Agent market....

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Nope ... I think Myers is average at best . I think the guy with best chance of beating him out is already on the roster and not a rookie 3rd round pick .


Completely agree. I don't think Myers will be starting in 2010, at any position.

dalemurphy
05-05-2010, 10:47 AM
We would think Caldwell would improve, but we don't know. Brisiel is coming back, but will he rebound and play like the end of 08? He wasn't really performing all that well either before he went down.

As much as you dislike Studdard, I thought he played better than the other 3 (not saying much). I think Pitts was missed more than we think. I've been wanting him back, but I'm beginning to lose confidence in that happening.

In the end, the interior will still have the most unanswered questions than any other position. IMO

I pretty much agree with you. But, not about Studdard. He was better than I anticipated but that's like saying the pile of dog crap I ate didn't taste quite as bad as I thought it was going to.


I have concerns with the secondary and interior Oline. I'm just arguing that the Texans have attempted to address the oline. And, working with just a little bit of faith, there are plenty of reasons for optimism. We have 7 guys that are all well under 30 years old fighting for 5-6 roster spots and 3 starting spots. We added two new players into the mix: one of them is a very athletic veteran and another is a strong and athletic rookie (with 3+ years starting experience).

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 10:49 AM
Their run blocking is even worse.

I don't agree with that. Definitely poor at the beginning of the season. But from the Buffalo game on, my opinion, is that the RBs left a lot of yards on the field. Arian Foster, who is average at best IMHO was proof of that, I think.

badboy
05-05-2010, 11:06 AM
To me , it's like furnishing your house . Are you gonna buy a coffee table first or a bed ? You look for a nice table on sale but your not going to pay a lot , you look for a sale . Do you look for a cheap bed , hell no , you want a bed that's comfortable .

The four things I think you have to have as a SB contending team .

1. QB ... bed
2. LT ... fridge
3. shutdown CB ... TV
4. pass rushing demon ... ovenUsing your analogy, we already had the bed (Schaub) and fridge (Brown) and we drafted our CB #20. Our Ferrari came in 2nd round and your oven in 3rd. Why not add a home owner's insurance policy(FS Ansah in 4th) to protect your stuff?

Honoring Earl 34
05-05-2010, 11:08 AM
Using your analogy, we already had the bed (Schaub) and fridge (Brown) and we drafted our CB #20. Our Ferrari came in 2nd round and your oven in 3rd. Why not add a home owner's insurance policy(FS Ansah in 4th) to protect your stuff?

They insured other positions .

badboy
05-05-2010, 11:11 AM
I'm fine with Kareem Jackson. Imho the Texans could have addressed cb later because it was a really deep class this year. I would have taken Dan Williams at 20. Ben Tate in the 2nd. Trade up with Baltimore to get Morgan Burnett by giving them our 2nd 4th rounder. The points are right and Baltimore would probably still get their TE and pick up an extra 4th. I think Ozzie would have done it. Then in the 4th take Akwasi Owusu-Ansah. 5th I get Mitch Petrus. 6th Dorin Dickerson and the 7th Donovan Warren.

1-Dan Williams DT
2-Ben Tate RB
3-Morgan Burnett FS
4-Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB
5-Mitch Petrus OG
6-Dorin Dickerson TE/WR
7-Donovan Warren CB

Sign as many tight ends as you want that went undrafted.and that would have been a draft I would be doing flips over!

Ole Miss Texan
05-05-2010, 11:15 AM
Using your analogy, we already had the bed (Schaub) and fridge (Brown) and we drafted our CB #20. Our Ferrari came in 2nd round and your oven in 3rd. Why not add a home owner's insurance policy(FS Ansah in 4th) to protect your stuff?

Because the theory is we got a good surveillance camera in the 4th (in case our alarm system goes down) that has a higher Consumer Report rating than the potential upgrade in insurance policy.

Honoring Earl 34
05-05-2010, 11:53 AM
Because the theory is we got a good surveillance camera in the 4th (in case our alarm system goes down) that has a higher Consumer Report rating than the potential upgrade in insurance policy.

I'll go out on a limb and say McManis ends up better than Ansah . Why ... cause an All Big 10 player who couldn't workout for scouts therefore dropped is a better prospect than a workout guy from Indiana in Pn.

I think McManis hits at least a 4.5 40 at the combine and has played in a good conference against good schools . Plus you don't just get into Northwestern , he's smart .

badboy
05-05-2010, 11:54 AM
I don't think so. Barber (I'm not super high on Barber, but I do like the kid) made a few mistakes.... one really big one in particular. But so did a lot of other players on our team, during those first three games.

Cushing, Demeco, Bullman, Smith... all of them missed tackles that led to huge runs. I think they were working out the kinks of our new Defensive aggression. Plus Cushing had missed quite a bit in the pre-season.

With Pollard coming, we also went to a traditional SS/FS split, which I think will help Barber.

When Barber got back in the game for Wilson later in the season, he played well. I am more concerened if Pollard misses a game or two, but I think Barber would do fine there as well, with everyone in front of him playing better than they did weeks 1,2, & 3.Good post! I too am hopeful Barber has a good season & what you say is correct.

b0ng
05-05-2010, 12:35 PM
So when we drafted McCain, Nolan, Harrison and Barber were we addressing the FS position then? It's like some of you people are about 2 years behind the curve here. I think the problem is that once we filled needs that the FO deemed more valuable than the FS position, we were out of draft picks in the higher rounds. Obviously most of the angry and upset people here don't count spending a 5th or a 6th on a FS as "addressing the position" so basically Smithiak had about 4 draft picks to fill the needs of the team. He picked up a CB, RB, DT, LB and a TE. If they were to trade some of their picks to get a safety in the 3rd I would've been pissed, because I don't think any of the dudes in the 3rd are worth giving up picks to get. They could have drafted Darrell Stuckey in the 4th, but at that point the powers that be decided special teams and offense could use a pick-me up (Especially since they had picked 1 offensive player out of 4 picks already).

I mean this draft was done so that Bush can get new toys to play with (A high value CB, a low value CB, a penetrating DT and a backup LB), and I have to think that he is happy with how the draft turned out. It's his system, and you can tell they put more of a premium on CB play and the front 7 than they do with safety play. If Jackson (Or, heh, McMannis) pans out then we're sitting pretty on all 3 levels of our defense.

With all of that said, who thought last year could be blamed mostly on poor safety play? Poor CB play? My thoughts go to the latter, especially with how badly Robinson would get burned or penalized. So they upgraded the CB position rather than FS and people want to gripe and talk about how we are destined for .500 or Schaub is going to get injured (What the **** that's even doing in this thread is beyond me), or we need a rapist on the team, or win at all costs or whatever. Nobody knows for sure how it's going to go, but I can at least say they made some very good attempts to tighten up the D with new talent. Now what was the gigantic albatross last year that kept us from winning games? Oh yeah, our offense having to score 35+ points to win a game. Nope, not the running game, nope not the O-line play, not even the ability to sack the opposing QB. It all came down to the fact that our secondary couldn't keep any QB not named Russell from tossing the pigskin into the endzone. So they upgraded the secondary through 2 CB picks and people here are mad about it.

Right.

Second Honeymoon
05-05-2010, 01:29 PM
My main complaint is that it seems they do not consider C and FS an area of need and that we are in Year 9 of the Texans and neither position has ever been addressed. Their inactivity in FA forced their hand. Why forego an opportunity to fill a hole pre-draft?

Take a chance. Spend some money. Address a need.

This was the year to take a chance with their being no cap.
We should be improving not standing pat and relying on the crapshoot that is the NFL draft. I have faith that Jackson and Tate are going to help but we had 5 or more positions that need a new starter.

We hopefully addressed 2 this season but that leaves 3

dalemurphy
05-05-2010, 01:49 PM
My main complaint is that it seems they do not consider C and FS an area of need and that we are in Year 9 of the Texans and neither position has ever been addressed. Their inactivity in FA forced their hand. Why forego an opportunity to fill a hole pre-draft?

Take a chance. Spend some money. Address a need.

This was the year to take a chance with their being no cap.
We should be improving not standing pat and relying on the crapshoot that is the NFL draft. I have faith that Jackson and Tate are going to help but we had 5 or more positions that need a new starter.

We hopefully addressed 2 this season but that leaves 3

SH, Name the Free Agent Center that you would've spent money on this off-season? They got the best one available: Wade Smith.


that being said, I certainly shared your concern with their lack of agressiveness last off-season. I thought they had plenty opportunity, particularly at FS, to help the team and they did nothing. Thankfully, Pollard dropped in their laps. This off-season was different. There simply wasn't much available due to the 2010 rule changes with the elimination of the cap.

beerlover
05-05-2010, 01:54 PM
SH, Name the Free Agent Center that you would've spent money on this off-season? They got the best one available: Wade Smith.


that being said, I certainly shared your concern with their lack of agressiveness last off-season. I thought they had plenty opportunity, particularly at FS, to help the team and they did nothing. Thankfully, Pollard dropped in their laps. This off-season was different. There simply wasn't much available due to the 2010 rule changes with the elimination of the cap.

who's to say they're finished? look when the added Pollard. if the opportunity presents itself Rick Smith will make the move. Patience is a virtue :cool:

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 01:59 PM
who's to say they're finished? look when the added Pollard. if the opportunity presents itself Rick Smith will make the move. Patience is a virtue :cool:

I think I'll start calling Rick Smith Poker Face.

badboy
05-05-2010, 02:10 PM
Because the theory is we got a good surveillance camera in the 4th (in case our alarm system goes down) that has a higher Consumer Report rating than the potential upgrade in insurance policy.Looks like we will be adding two cameras every year.

badboy
05-05-2010, 02:13 PM
I'll go out on a limb and say McManis ends up better than Ansah . Why ... cause an All Big 10 player who couldn't workout for scouts therefore dropped is a better prospect than a workout guy from Indiana in Pn.

I think McManis hits at least a 4.5 40 at the combine and has played in a good conference against good schools . Plus you don't just get into Northwestern , he's smart .Since he is now a Texan I am hoping you are 100% correct. In fact I hope you are underestimating McManus.

welsh texan
05-05-2010, 02:16 PM
Can't help but look at this thread and wonder if some of you people on here thrive on hating what this team does.

If you break down what we have at Free Safety, Wilson is a reasonable starter with questionable injury history and we have 2 or 3 guys who are developmental players or possible position changes from corner.

Do you really invest money and picks into that situation when it will only cause previous picks and investment to be de-valued?

I'm sure nobody is going to stick their head above the parapet and say they'd prefer to see Reeves Quin and Bennett at CB with a first round rookie over the top of them? Dunta may not have been what he was before the injury last season but I can't believe for a minute that he wouldn't have been a big loss to the team had they not taken THEIR guy to replace him.

Again on the issue of Centre that is rumbling throughout this thread, do people really think that between previous year 3rd round pick Caldwell and FA signing Wade Smith the FO probably have all the ammo they want to push Meyers all the way? Not to mention the 2 guard positions that will be upgraded compared to last season either way.

So which of our top 3 picks would you sacrifice to provide a starting FS or a starting C? Because I think CB, RB and DT were far greater needs for immediate impact than the already somewhat addressed positions of Free Safety and Centre.

badboy
05-05-2010, 02:18 PM
who's to say they're finished? look when the added Pollard. if the opportunity presents itself Rick Smith will make the move. Patience is a virtue :cool:Guns and Roses sang about having a little more patience. Anyone seen Axl Rose lately?

badboy
05-05-2010, 02:24 PM
Can't help but look at this thread and wonder if some of you people on here thrive on hating what this team does.

If you break down what we have at Free Safety, Wilson is a reasonable starter with questionable injury history and we have 2 or 3 guys who are developmental players or possible position changes from corner.

Do you really invest money and picks into that situation when it will only cause previous picks and investment to be de-valued?

I'm sure nobody is going to stick their head above the parapet and say they'd prefer to see Reeves Quin and Bennett at CB with a first round rookie over the top of them? Dunta may not have been what he was before the injury last season but I can't believe for a minute that he wouldn't have been a big loss to the team had they not taken THEIR guy to replace him.

Again on the issue of Centre that is rumbling throughout this thread, do people really think that between previous year 3rd round pick Caldwell and FA signing Wade Smith the FO probably have all the ammo they want to push Meyers all the way? Not to mention the 2 guard positions that will be upgraded compared to last season either way.

So which of our top 3 picks would you sacrifice to provide a starting FS or a starting C? Because I think CB, RB and DT were far greater needs for immediate impact than the already somewhat addressed positions of Free Safety and Centre.I would have loved to see a Reeves, Quin combo with Earl Thomas, Nate Allen or maybe one or two others as the Rookie FS.

welsh texan
05-05-2010, 02:33 PM
I would have loved to see a Reeves, Quin combo with Earl Thomas, Nate Allen or maybe one or two others as the Rookie FS.

You'd have been calling Bob a cheapskate for not re-signing D-Rob by mid September IMHO.

CB is the more immediate need, it may be a little risque to say this around here but FS can wait till next year, Eugene is perfectly serviceable there for the time being and if he does go down it gives playing time to those who we've already spent the time to develop.

Honoring Earl 34
05-05-2010, 02:58 PM
You'd have been calling Bob a cheapskate for not re-signing D-Rob by mid September IMHO.

CB is the more immediate need, it may be a little risque to say this around here but FS can wait till next year, Eugene is perfectly serviceable there for the time being and if he does go down it gives playing time to those who we've already spent the time to develop.

There's a reason a CB gets paid more than FS .

Goldensilence
05-05-2010, 03:05 PM
You'd have been calling Bob a cheapskate for not re-signing D-Rob by mid September IMHO.

CB is the more immediate need, it may be a little risque to say this around here but FS can wait till next year, Eugene is perfectly serviceable there for the time being and if he does go down it gives playing time to those who we've already spent the time to develop.

First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

beerlover
05-05-2010, 03:10 PM
It is pretty darn hard to address every need in one offseason. everybody has their own agenda :barman:

dalemurphy
05-05-2010, 03:13 PM
First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

I agree. That is a concern. However, show me a team that has quality depth at every position and I'll show you a championship team from the pre-salary cap era. The reality is that, even the best teams, are lacking in a few areas. However, what does concern me, is they don't seem to understand it is an area of need. Last season, for instance, they were totally content to enter the season with Nick Ferguson or Dom. Barber lined up next to Wilson and to have no proven backup behind him. They could've signed someone like Sean Jones for $2million, simply for some veteran depth, but didn't even effort to do so.

JB
05-05-2010, 03:24 PM
I agree. That is a concern. However, show me a team that has quality depth at every position and I'll show you a championship team from the pre-salary cap era. The reality is that, even the best teams, are lacking in a few areas. However, what does concern me, is they don't seem to understand it is an area of need. Last season, for instance, they were totally content to enter the season with Nick Ferguson or Dom. Barber lined up next to Wilson and to have no proven backup behind him. They could've signed someone like Sean Jones for $2million, simply for some veteran depth, but didn't even effort to do so.

But we don't really know that do we? This FO does not talk about moves they are contemplating or about moves that did not work out. They may have tried to bring Jones in here, but lost out. We only hear about a small fraction of what they are doing, and even less about what they are thinking.

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 03:25 PM
First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

How would that have been different with a 3rd round pick? I don't believe our chances would be any better, and possibly worse.

HOU-TEX
05-05-2010, 03:30 PM
First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

Wilson, Pollard, Nolan and Barber are the only safety's on the roster at this time. I reckon we'll pick someone up or one of our CB's will eventually be moved to S.

Ole Miss Texan
05-05-2010, 03:40 PM
Wait a minute... so if our starting FS and our starting SS both go out due to injury, we would have a hole at the position? Say it ain't so... :clap:

b0ng
05-05-2010, 03:43 PM
The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.

You know what else would suck, if 'Dre and Daniels go down. Or if Mario and Smith go down. Or if Demeco and Cushing go down.

Losing 2 starters in almost the exact same spot on the field would be devastating to almost any team in this league. They have a starter, they have what they believe to be solid depth so why use even more picks when they've used a pick on a safety each year since 2007?

(yes I wanted Earl Thomas)

steelbtexan
05-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Everybody sees problems with the organization. You're not alone. We can't all be right. Personally, I just don't like your "stats don't mean anything" or whatever. They don't mean what you think we are saying it means. We don't think they mean anything other than what they mean.

I'm not questioning your "fan-hood" I tried to not give off that impression.

Great, let's go find a thread where we can go talk about how our team has improved. Then you'll be like the rest of us, sharing in the good and the bad.

True. Offensively, I think we were as good as any of them... moving the ball, scoring... we're right there. Need to get better at running the ball. Defensively, I think we're as good as any of them.

We had some maturity issues, some coaching issues, a lot of choking issues...
But I think the growth we've seen, maturity wise, through-out the season (on the field, and on the side lines) will be the x factor that will finally put us on even footing with the best in the NFL.

& that's what I'm asking about. If your outlook is so low, what are you going to be watching? Are you going to be hoping they prove you wrong, and send Chris Myers to the Pro-Bowl? Are you going to be watching, hoping to be proven right, and Myers get Schaub killed? Are you going to notice Winston give up more sacks than Myers, which he has the last two years?

Technically, we were winners last year. I like that Kubiak isn't so conservative that he won't start a rookie... Wali Lundy, Glover Quinn, to name a couple. I hope we can see more 2 minute offense... but if they keep screwing it up, I hope Kubiak pulls them back before we get into "missing the play-offs again" jeopordy. I have no problem not wanting to pay Haynesworth $100 mil. I have no problem passing on Cedric Benson (at least they've done their due dillegence, brought him in, and looked at him twice..) I don't understand not bringning Larry Johnson in, even if we had to sign him to a crazy 1 year deal.


So what are you expecting to see in 2010? Good football? A joke? Is it going to be close?

We agree on alot things.

I would never wish any of the Texans injury.

I'm expecting 7-9,9-7 with a healthy team. 10-6 would be great but I dont see it happening. I'm glad to see that you seem to look at things realisticly when it comes to the Texans conservative nature.

steelbtexan
05-05-2010, 04:09 PM
SH, Name the Free Agent Center that you would've spent money on this off-season? They got the best one available: Wade Smith.


that being said, I certainly shared your concern with their lack of agressiveness last off-season. I thought they had plenty opportunity, particularly at FS, to help the team and they did nothing. Thankfully, Pollard dropped in their laps. This off-season was different. There simply wasn't much available due to the 2010 rule changes with the elimination of the cap.

True

Goldensilence
05-05-2010, 04:21 PM
I agree. That is a concern. However, show me a team that has quality depth at every position and I'll show you a championship team from the pre-salary cap era. The reality is that, even the best teams, are lacking in a few areas. However, what does concern me, is they don't seem to understand it is an area of need. Last season, for instance, they were totally content to enter the season with Nick Ferguson or Dom. Barber lined up next to Wilson and to have no proven backup behind him. They could've signed someone like Sean Jones for $2million, simply for some veteran depth, but didn't even effort to do so.

Good post Dale. I'm not arguing the first point, I know teams will have holes at positions on the field. But like yourself my position is they haven't seemed to figure out it is a position of need.

How would that have been different with a 3rd round pick? I don't believe our chances would be any better, and possibly worse.

Look I'm no NFL coach or scout by any means. But, generally I would assume the higher a guy is picked in the draft is better. It comes down to would you rather have a guy drafted in the third round or in the 6th?

Is it really that hard to comprehend?

Wilson, Pollard, Nolan and Barber are the only safety's on the roster at this time. I reckon we'll pick someone up or one of our CB's will eventually be moved to S.

Yeah. I forsee one of the CBs on the bubble of making the roster being asked to try and move to FS. Molden comes to mind as having the physical tools to try to do so.

You know what else would suck, if 'Dre and Daniels go down. Or if Mario and Smith go down. Or if Demeco and Cushing go down.

Losing 2 starters in almost the exact same spot on the field would be devastating to almost any team in this league. They have a starter, they have what they believe to be solid depth so why use even more picks when they've used a pick on a safety each year since 2007?

(yes I wanted Earl Thomas)

Yeah last year they finally found a legit starter at SS. Wilson hasn't been able to stay healthy for a full year for going on like 4. That's why the Patriots released him and we were able to take him off the "scrap heap".

My problem is yeah they've used a pick each year, but realistically those were late round flyers. Perhaps I'm just the only who hopes at some point they will put some sort of premium on safety play.

steelbtexan
05-05-2010, 04:28 PM
How would that have been different with a 3rd round pick? I don't believe our chances would be any better, and possibly worse.

This is where we disagree.

Would you have been willing to give up Sharpton and Graham to move up in the 3rd rd and draft Wright or Burnett at S or Walton at C? I would have. They are going to be starters this year.

In fact Hoke was talking about what a steal Wright was.

This draft was so deep that starters could be found in the 3rd rd. In addition I would've traded a 2011 2nd for a 2011 3rd. Then drafted Walton.

This is the forward thinking thing that I'm talking about. Instead we get the same old lets draft 2 starters and let 1 starter walk in FA conservative way of thinking. That way of thinking is why the Texans are still rebuilding after 4 yrs of Smithiak.

My draft would've looked like this

Rd1 Jackson
Rd2 Tate
Rd3 Burnett or Wright
Rd3 Mitchell
Rd3 Walton
Rd5 NcMannis
Rd6 Holliday
Rd6 Smith
Rd7 Dickerson

Which looks alot better than the 2 starters that the Texans drafted. The cost of doing this draft would've been Sharpton,Graham and a 2011 2nd rd pick. The cost is well worth filling the holes on the team next year.IMHO

But it takes a forward thinking organization and the Texans have never been accused of that.

dalemurphy
05-05-2010, 05:26 PM
This is where we disagree.

Would you have been willing to give up Sharpton and Graham to move up in the 3rd rd and draft Wright or Burnett at S or Walton at C? I would have. They are going to be starters this year.

In fact Hoke was talking about what a steal Wright was.

This draft was so deep that starters could be found in the 3rd rd. In addition I would've traded a 2011 2nd for a 2011 3rd. Then drafted Walton.

This is the forward thinking thing that I'm talking about. Instead we get the same old lets draft 2 starters and let 1 starter walk in FA conservative way of thinking. That way of thinking is why the Texans are still rebuilding after 4 yrs of Smithiak.

My draft would've looked like this

Rd1 Jackson
Rd2 Tate
Rd3 Burnett or Wright
Rd3 Mitchell
Rd3 Walton
Rd5 NcMannis
Rd6 Holliday
Rd6 Smith
Rd7 Dickerson

Which looks alot better than the 2 starters that the Texans drafted. The cost of doing this draft would've been Sharpton,Graham and a 2011 2nd rd pick. The cost is well worth filling the holes on the team next year.IMHO

But it takes a forward thinking organization and the Texans have never been accused of that.


I think they simply didn't see a safety they liked for that value. Perhaps they are wrong and it may cost them. However, I don't want them reaching for players they don't believe in. I think they are drafting well and I definitely want the philosophy and methods behind those drafts to continue.

Regarding the safety position this year: I'm not disillusioned with their handling of it like I was last year. Last year we didn't have Pollard and Barber hadn't played (I thought he was solid late in the year). I was more upset they didn't get veteran help than I was about what happened in the draft. I don't want to see a team content with Nick Ferguson being on the 53 man roster. This year he won't be. I think we are three deep with competant safeties and we have a 4th (Nolan) with some potential. It's hard to complain about two 4th round picks that haven't even been to mini-camp yet... It's possible Sharpton and Graham become all-pros while this draft ends up producing very little talent at safety. So, I can't start complaining about the picks yet.

The Pencil Neck
05-05-2010, 05:55 PM
We could have drafted a FS at several points in the draft. And we chose not to.

There are a few reasons why that might be. And it's not because the coaches don't value the position or because they're getting kickbacks from other teams.

A big reason is probably because they studied the tape on these guys and didn't like what they saw. Just because these guys were rated high on a bunch of draft boards doesn't mean they were rated high on the Texan's board. It's up to the coaches and the scouts to look at these guys and figure out who fits in our system and who doesn't and who's better than what we've got and who's not and who's going to improve our team the most.

Most of these guys that we argue over and hype and say should go in this round or that round end up being crap players. And we're sitting here talking about these guys like we KNOW they're going to end up being studs when we really don't know that.

And the same thing applies to the interior of the line. We drafted a G/C last year in the 3rd round. A guy that a lot of us were excited to get. And that guy had problems working his way into the lineup. Most of the guys we were excited about as Gs and Cs in the mid to late rounds probably wouldn't have made an immediate impact in our line anyway. Shelley Smith probably was one of the higher rated interior linemen on the Texans board and they knew they could get him in the later rounds because most teams (except maybe the Skins and Seahawks) weren't going to know about him or go after him.

So, personally, I think we hit our biggest needs. And we may have hit some of our moderate needs including the interior line, but we may not see the benefit of that until later down the line.

thunderkyss
05-05-2010, 07:50 PM
Look I'm no NFL coach or scout by any means. But, generally I would assume the higher a guy is picked in the draft is better. It comes down to would you rather have a guy drafted in the third round or in the 6th?

Is it really that hard to comprehend?


If we were talking about two guys drafted in the same year, I would agree. But when we're talking about across several years, especially a late (second day) pick... I don't think it is as cut and dry.


Let's say I'm Gibbs
I've got a guy I've been working with for a year in Barber. He's played in the NFL, he's started for my team, he's done some good things... with Barber, we can pick up where we left off, and move on to Lesson 2, instead of having to start over with lesson 1 with the rooks.

I've also got Troy Nolan, we felt he fell in the draft because of an injury, he didn't get a fair shot last year, because of an injury. But before the injury, we were pretty excited about what the kid can do. I like him, I'm not ready to give up on him, I'm ready to move forward with Troy Nolan. Maybe I've gotten to know him as he's gone through his rehab. Maybe I feel like he understands the game, and can give me exactly what I want.

But, I'm not going to put all my back-up eggs in these two players. I've also got 2 UDFA in a "deep" FS draft. They fit our mold, they've got the physicals we want, their smart maybe we'll find something in one of them.

So for back-ups.. I've got 4 options in the event something were to hapen to both of my starters.

steelbtexan
05-06-2010, 11:32 AM
We could have drafted a FS at several points in the draft. And we chose not to.

There are a few reasons why that might be. And it's not because the coaches don't value the position or because they're getting kickbacks from other teams.

A big reason is probably because they studied the tape on these guys and didn't like what they saw. Just because these guys were rated high on a bunch of draft boards doesn't mean they were rated high on the Texan's board. It's up to the coaches and the scouts to look at these guys and figure out who fits in our system and who doesn't and who's better than what we've got and who's not and who's going to improve our team the most.

Most of these guys that we argue over and hype and say should go in this round or that round end up being crap players. And we're sitting here talking about these guys like we KNOW they're going to end up being studs when we really don't know that.

And the same thing applies to the interior of the line. We drafted a G/C last year in the 3rd round. A guy that a lot of us were excited to get. And that guy had problems working his way into the lineup. Most of the guys we were excited about as Gs and Cs in the mid to late rounds probably wouldn't have made an immediate impact in our line anyway. Shelley Smith probably was one of the higher rated interior linemen on the Texans board and they knew they could get him in the later rounds because most teams (except maybe the Skins and Seahawks) weren't going to know about him or go after him.

So, personally, I think we hit our biggest needs. And we may have hit some of our moderate needs including the interior line, but we may not see the benefit of that until later down the line.

The biggest reason they didn't trade up and draft a FS is Smithiak dont place the value on the S position that we on the MB do.

Smithiak should be able to pick 3 starters out of each draft. If they cant they are falling behind the rest of the NFL.

That's why I think trading up and getting a no.1 and two no.2's each draft. That way you are almost assured of getting 3 impact players from each draft.

That's just my philosopy on the draft.

dalemurphy
05-06-2010, 11:55 AM
The biggest reason they didn't trade up and draft a FS is Smithiak dont place the value on the S position that we on the MB do.

Smithiak should be able to pick 3 starters out of each draft. If they cant they are falling behind the rest of the NFL.

That's why I think trading up and getting a no.1 and two no.2's each draft. That way you are almost assured of getting 3 impact players from each draft.

That's just my philosopy on the draft.

2006 (also, KWalter trade)
1. Mario
2. Demeco
3. Winston
4. OD

2007 (also,1/2 Matt Schaub trade)
1. Okoye (like it or not, he's starting)
2. JJ (probably) or Bennett in '07 or Studdard in '09
3. Zac Diles

2008 (also, 1/2 Matt Schaub trade... also, Chris Myers trade)
1. Duane Brown
2. Steve Slaton

2009
1. Cushing
2. Caldwell
3. Quin

I don't neccessarily agree with your philosophy on how to judge a draft. But, Smithiak has been pretty successful using your measurement. It's also worth noting what the Texans have done on the final day of drafting. It seems those picks are more value than you think (at least to the Texans)

Acquired with 4th-7th rounds
2006: OD, D.Anderson, KWalter
2007: Studdard, ZDiles
2008: D.Barber, C.Myers
2009: Quin, McCain, J.Casey

now, I don't think all of that list is "A" talent. But, getting guys like OD, Quin, and ZDiles late in the draft are good reasons not to be so eager to trade those picks in order to move up into the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Honoring Earl 34
05-06-2010, 11:57 AM
The biggest reason they didn't trade up and draft a FS is Smithiak dont place the value on the S position that we on the MB do.

Smithiak should be able to pick 3 starters out of each draft. If they cant they are falling behind the rest of the NFL.

That's why I think trading up and getting a no.1 and two no.2's each draft. That way you are almost assured of getting 3 impact players from each draft.

That's just my philosopy on the draft.

I think that depends on how good your team is .

I posted earlier somewhere that if you look at need vs bpa , the best teams pick bpa . The Cowboys took Dez when everyone thought they'd take an OT .

ChampionTexan
05-06-2010, 12:01 PM
I think that depends on how good your team is .

I posted earlier somewhere that if you look at need vs bpa , the best teams pick bpa . The Cowboys took Dez when everyone thought they'd take an OT .

Exactly right - not only the BPA thing, but if you're the 3rd or 4th round pick of the Rams or Chiefs, there's a heck of a lot better chance you're going to be able to nail down a starting role than if you go in the same round to the Vikings, Saints, Colts, etc...

badboy
05-06-2010, 12:10 PM
First part of this is a problem. He hasn't been able to stay healthy for a season. Next part might be ok long as Pollard is healthy.

The part that concerns me is what if Eugene and Pollard go down. We get a Barber and Troy Nolan, Ferguson, Russell combo? There goes the secondary.exactly!