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badboy
04-26-2010, 02:32 PM
Ok , I get it that Smithiak prefers CBs that can run forward and bang someone but aren't our linebackers suppose to do most of that? FS has been identified for years as a weak position and we pull a trick like last draft with RB and don't draft one? Jackson is not a cover guy but a Dunta clone just a tad faster. Only Texans had him rated higher than Wilson or McCourty. Will he start? Yeah probably. Was he best choice? Well, we will never know. We trade down and get an extra 3rd then have to punt it away to move back into second round to get Tate? Wow, that is a good trade. Oh, right we did get another 4th (was it spent wisely?) and a 5th to replace what we gave away but wait; we moved up 8 spots for drum roll please Cb Sherrick McManus! Uh, who? Most of you know that I do a lot of research and RMartin65, Beerlover and I did countless hours of research in putting together mocks for this draft and when Texans drafted him was first time I ever heard his name. Draft day picks as rounds develop:

1.Texans: Kareem Jackson 5'10 196 4.40 great within 20 yards and better not guess wrong or he will never catch up.
Badboy: Kyle Wilson 5'10" 194 4.43 bump & run and cover guy that can close with a burst.

2. Texans: Ben Tate 5'11"220 4.4 ok a strong,fast guy & we get an extra 3rd not knowing we'd give it away immediately. Boy, did that look stupid. Still, 3rd best back on my board.
Badboy: Toby Gerhart 6' 231 4.5s He is sitting right there! Dennison said both were rated even and if we could have gotten Tate and kept the 3rd, brilliant. But we didn't. So much for TG versus Jonathan Dwyer.

3.Texans: Earl Mitchell 6'3" 296 &fast. Guess we will see if he can get through the middle. This isn't Barwin speeding in from the outside. If it works, great move! If it doesn't, someone should be taken to the woodshed. Pretty risky for a 3rd.
Badboy: We had Mike Johnson, Rennie Curran (OLB) and Tony Moeaki there.
I really considered the OLB but thought TE bigger need as I don't have medical info on how our vets are doing. My Pick:Moeaki6'3" 245 great receiver, needs to work on blocking. An OD clone if you will.

4.A Sharpton5'11"236 ILB to convert to Will. I really like this guy but not a need position nor BPA.
Badboy: #118 Owusu-Ansah 6'207 4.41 CB/FS/KR This was my FS and back up corner. BTW, Ed Campo of Dallas is saying he is the FS.http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04/24/2140336/dallas-cowboys-draft-pick-from.html
Ansah also averaged 30 yards as a senior on kick returns.
4b. Garrett Graham similar to OD but in my draft we have better TE with Moeaki. I have no 4th as I did not trade.

5. Texans:McManus, I covered above.
Badboy: Rashad Jones 6'1"214 4.51 I was stunned he was here and he had a 3-4 th round range. Can play SS to back Pollard or FS. Fast, hard hitter.

6a Texans: Shelley Smith a throw away pick that will not beat out any of current OGs.
Badboy: David Gettis WR 6'3" 217 pro day 40 4.39 and does not have to convert from TE. 52 receptions 3 TDs. Big guy in Red Zone who could make one of current WRs obsolete. Had him on one of my earliest mocks. *Note Jonathan Dwyer was still available and I almost went with him as I wanted one more back in TC.
6b Trindon Holliday: I almost fell out of my chair, RMartin65 pick this guy from way back when and we put him on our final mock.
Badboy:To be honest due to his small size I really looked hard for another player but this kid should be great. I hope he keeps his Blue Cross/Blue SHield premium paid up.

7.DD ok but you know who I mean. I am ok with this pick but with Gettis who is better, we could go with my guy.
Badboy: Jeff Owen DT 6'1" 304 4.94 40. 65 and Beerlover researched the heck out of this guy and he is super strong and Pepto's (stops) the runs. We had him as high as 4th and would have been a steal. I'll put him against Mitchell especially comparing where each was selected.

I was expecting to come out today bragging on how the Texans had shut up all the critics with an outstanding draft. That did not happen.

Rating- C that I meritoriously moved up to C+ for Smith accepting RMartin65's telephone call and going with his itty bitty missile, Holliday.

GP
04-26-2010, 02:39 PM
I think our Round 1 and Round 2 picks will be consistent performers.

Round 3 is where there might be trouble. Our history of drafting DTs is awful.

After Round 3, I think it's a crap shoot no matter who is taken, or why he was taken. I think some players succeed, where others might fail, because of how well they match up for the offense or defense system they're plugged into.

If Smithiak selected players less on "project" and more on "gameday readiness" then I'm good with who we took. I actually like this draft better than last year's, with the exception of the Cushing pick which will never be matched. It was an Andre Johnson type of pick, IMO. Should have been so obvious, but 14 teams before us were blinded somehow.

Thanks for the analysis. You obviously put a lot of work into it, as did some others you mentioned. Next year, it would be cool to have you guys writing weekly discussion "Question & Answer" columns for this board (to discuss potential draft picks with the rest of us).

eriadoc
04-26-2010, 02:56 PM
The team has had the same three weaknesses forever: poor secondary (specifically as it relates to the big play and lack of creating a big play), no interior pass rush (those smaller, quick, agile DTs are really working out, huh?), and no running game when it counts. The running game has had moments, but I don't think adding Tate, a 6th round G, and 7 TEs is going to help get the short yardage. We'll see. I'm cautiously more optimistic about the running game being fixed than I am the other two areas.

So if this draft yields a bunch of good players, I still don't see those 3 key areas being resolved. It's like having 25 stud pitchers on your major league roster. That's great, but who hits?

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2010, 02:57 PM
Who dare speak ill of Rick and Gary?
Not surprised that it came from someone who understands the draft and how valuable each pick is and how important it is to have a coherent vision that addresses areas of critical need. Worrying about special teams in the draft when there are areas of still critical need on this roster.

We still need a center.
Center. Free safety. Guard. Tight End. Oh wait, we're set for life on TEs.

Carr Bombed
04-26-2010, 03:00 PM
Who dare speak ill of Rick and Gary?
Not surprised that it came from someone who understands the draft and how valuable each pick is and how important it is to have a coherent vision that addresses areas of critical need. Worrying about special teams in the draft when there are areas of still critical need on this roster.

We still need a center.
Center. Free safety. Guard. Tight End. Oh wait, we're set for life on TEs.

If you're talking about Trindon Holliday.....well STs is 1 third of the game and having a explosive returner who can take one to the house on any given return can single handedly win you games. Every time we've given Joe Marciano a explosive returner our STs have been tops in the league. I love the Holliday pick...Andre Davis NEEDED to be replaced, so that was a CRITICAL need. You give this offense a short field and they're going to do some serious damage.

Also people need to get over the TEs......we picked one TE and a TE who was one of the most complete TEs in the draft and a guy who gets compared to Owen Daniels. I hate to tell people this, but I think this will be Owen Daniels last year as a Texan, if the team is already looking towards the future how can anybody be down on them for addressing the need this year?

Dutchrudder
04-26-2010, 03:12 PM
If you're talking about Trindon Holliday.....well STs is 1 third of the game and having a explosive returner who can take one to the house on any given return can single handedly win you games. Every time we've given Joe Marciano a explosive returner our STs have been tops in the league. I love the Holliday pick...Andre Davis NEEDED to be replaced, so that was a CRITICAL need. You give this offense a short field and they're going to do some serious damage.

Also people need to get over the TEs......we picked one TE and a TE who was one of the most complete TEs in the draft and a guy who gets compared to Owen Daniels. I hate to tell people this, but I think this will be Owen Daniels last year as a Texan, if the team is already looking towards the future how can anybody be down on them for addressing the need this year?

I think he's referring the ILB pick in the 4th who has already been deemed a special teams player and back up LB. He will compete for a LB job, but likely won't be the starter in 2010. I have to agree on that one if that's what he's referring to. I don't like the pick either, and I think he could have been picked later in the 4th or 5th. We needed a big 2-gap DT in the 3rd and pass rushing DT in the 4th to help fix the line. DT is still a weakness for this team, just like it has been since 2002.

If he's complaining about Holliday, the late 6th pick, well then I guess he's just being nitpicky. I like that pick myself, but I also see how he can be an impact player for this team and possibly replace the aging Andre Davis. To me that was a good value considering the draft position.

Goldensilence
04-26-2010, 03:16 PM
Ok , I get it that Smithiak prefers CBs that can run forward and bang someone but aren't our linebackers suppose to do most of that? FS has been identified for years as a weak position and we pull a trick like last draft with RB and don't draft one? Jackson is not a cover guy but a Dunta clone just a tad faster. Only Texans had him rated higher than Wilson or McCourty. Will he start? Yeah probably. Was he best choice? Well, we will never know. We trade down and get an extra 3rd then have to punt it away to move back into second round to get Tate? Wow, that is a good trade. Oh, right we did get another 4th (was it spent wisely?) and a 5th to replace what we gave away but wait; we moved up 8 spots for drum roll please Cb Sherrick McManus! Uh, who? Most of you know that I do a lot of research and RMartin65, Beerlover and I did countless hours of research in putting together mocks for this draft and when Texans drafted him was first time I ever heard his name. Draft day picks as rounds develop:

1.Texans: Kareem Jackson 5'10 196 4.40 great within 20 yards and better not guess wrong or he will never catch up.
Badboy: Kyle Wilson 5'10" 194 4.43 bump & run and cover guy that can close with a burst.

I'm not huge on the pick, but at least pleased they put a premium on improving the back end of the defense. Only problem I have with your analysis is you have Jackson running a 4.40 saying he won't catch up to people, and Kyle Wilson as 4.43. Seems to contradict a little.

I'm not a big fan of Nick Saban the person, but his defensive guys usually come to the NFL ready to play.

2. Texans: Ben Tate 5'11"220 4.4 ok a strong,fast guy & we get an extra 3rd not knowing we'd give it away immediately. Boy, did that look stupid. Still, 3rd best back on my board.
Badboy: Toby Gerhart 6' 231 4.5s He is sitting right there! Dennison said both were rated even and if we could have gotten Tate and kept the 3rd, brilliant. But we didn't. So much for TG versus Jonathan Dwyer.

I think Tate is a much better fit for what the Texans offense does. Gerhart doesn't have a good history of being a target out of the backfield. Not saying he was asked to at Standford or that he can't be one. Just right out of the box I think Tate's skill set fits better.

In the end I think it's going to be hard to make the comparison because Gerhart will do good in Minnesota where they aren't going to ask him to be the guy, he's not going to be called on to be a weapon out of the backfield, and he's going to have an OL in front of him that is capable of opening big holes in the running game.

3.Texans: Earl Mitchell 6'3" 296 &fast. Guess we will see if he can get through the middle. This isn't Barwin speeding in from the outside. If it works, great move! If it doesn't, someone should be taken to the woodshed. Pretty risky for a 3rd.
Badboy: We had Mike Johnson, Rennie Curran (OLB) and Tony Moeaki there.
I really considered the OLB but thought TE bigger need as I don't have medical info on how our vets are doing. My Pick:Moeaki6'3" 245 great receiver, needs to work on blocking. An OD clone if you will.

TE isn't a need and I'm not sure Moeaki is the BPA at this point. Agree on the risk of taking Mitchell here. Looks like is sticking to smaller DL and hoping to get they shoot gaps as opposed getting a push up the middle.So far the resutls haven't been spectacular.However, you know Gary and Rick can't help but gamble on draft day because they don't make big moves in FA.

My choice would've been Johnson.

4.A Sharpton5'11"236 ILB to convert to Will. I really like this guy but not a need position nor BPA.
Badboy: #118 Owusu-Ansah 6'207 4.41 CB/FS/KR This was my FS and back up corner. BTW, Ed Campo of Dallas is saying he is the FS.http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04/24/2140336/dallas-cowboys-draft-pick-from.html
Ansah also averaged 30 yards as a senior on kick returns.
4b. Garrett Graham similar to OD but in my draft we have better TE with Moeaki. I have no 4th as I did not trade.

4aAt the moment I am in full agreement on he's not BPA or at a strong need position. Guy I would've picked is Bruce Campbell. Worst case scenario the guy becomes the 4th tackle on the team and if Brown doesn't work out next year we have a nice prospect in the fold.

4b. Guess the FO is really concerned about the state of our TEs. From reports I've heard OD is on schedule. Looks like last year's pick of Casey hasn't worked out well as the FO thought it might. Didn't like it anyway. I would've looked at Al Woods here.


5. Texans:McManus, I covered above.
Badboy: Rashad Jones 6'1"214 4.51 I was stunned he was here and he had a 3-4 th round range. Can play SS to back Pollard or FS. Fast, hard hitter.

Would be fine with Johnson here, Also would've like Petrus from Ark or Matt Tennant C from BC.

Not sure McManus is BPA and we're going to have a hard time wedding out CBs at this point.

6a Texans: Shelley Smith a throw away pick that will not beat out any of current OGs.
Badboy: David Gettis WR 6'3" 217 pro day 40 4.39 and does not have to convert from TE. 52 receptions 3 TDs. Big guy in Red Zone who could make one of current WRs obsolete. Had him on one of my earliest mocks. *Note Jonathan Dwyer was still available and I almost went with him as I wanted one more back in TC.
6b Trindon Holliday: I almost fell out of my chair, RMartin65 pick this guy from way back when and we put him on our final mock.
Badboy:To be honest due to his small size I really looked hard for another player but this kid should be great. I hope he keeps his Blue Cross/Blue SHield premium paid up.

6aI have a shallow bit of hope Smith can compete with one of the OG and upgrade the spot even a little. Not going to hold my breath though.

I actually thought Tony Pike would've been a good pickup here seeing as we don't have a 3rd that I know of. Pike's got a chance to develop here.

6b. Ecstatic with this pick. The guy has speed to burn and will add a spark to the team. I think he'll be a huge weapon in the return game and as TC rolls on I just feel like the staff is going to have to try and find ways to get this guy the ball. Yeah he's small, but he's tough, has survived in SEC and will be killer on screen plays and can turn dump off passes into big gains.

Easily my favorite pick of this draft.

7.DD ok but you know who I mean. I am ok with this pick but with Gettis who is better, we could go with my guy.
Badboy: Jeff Owen DT 6'1" 304 4.94 40. 65 and Beerlover researched the heck out of this guy and he is super strong and Pepto's (stops) the runs. We had him as high as 4th and would have been a steal. I'll put him against Mitchell especially comparing where each was selected.

Really at this point no problem with the pick. Perhaps Dickerson can compete for a roster spot. Seems to have good speed and size.

I was expecting to come out today bragging on how the Texans had shut up all the critics with an outstanding draft. That did not happen.

Rating- C that I meritoriously moved up to C+ for Smith accepting RMartin65's telephone call and going with his itty bitty missile, Holliday.

Really I too was hoping the FO would come out and nail this draft seeing as how several of the teams we're slated to play next year have gotten better this offseason.

I'm left knowing we got BETTER, I'm just wondering how much and if it'll be enough.

Dutchrudder
04-26-2010, 03:19 PM
Really I too was hoping the FO would come out and nail this draft seeing as how several of the teams we're slated to play next year have gotten better this offseason.

I'm left knowing we got BETTER, I'm just wondering how much and if it'll be enough.

Well, the only silver lining of this draft to me is that it seems we had a better draft than the rest of our division. If nothing else, we can pull away from the Jags and Titans to contest with the Colts for the division title this year. They play nearly the same opponents as we do, so hopefully they will have just as much trouble as us with the NFC East.

Blake
04-26-2010, 03:20 PM
Thanks badboy for the draft thoughts. Rep.

You are either going to look brilliant, or lose a little draft cred in 2-3 years. Either way your words have been marked!

disaacks3
04-26-2010, 03:23 PM
Only Texans had him rated higher than Wilson or McCourty.

Hey, I wasn't stupefyingly thrilled with all the Texans selections, but where do you get the idea that only the Texans had Jackson rated highest at the time? Good lord, even Kiper had him rated as the highest CB available at the time and his choices aren't exactly secret.

If we got a legitimate #1 CB in the first round, we've improved (Dunta was nobody's #1 but us)

Goldensilence
04-26-2010, 03:27 PM
Well, the only silver lining of this draft to me is that it seems we had a better draft than the rest of our division. If nothing else, we can pull away from the Jags and Titans to contest with the Colts for the division title this year. They play nearly the same opponents as we do, so hopefully they will have just as much trouble as us with the NFC East.

I do think we drafted better than The Jags and Titans. If we can sweep those two I think we have a shot at a decent record next year. Problem with the Colts drafts are at the outset they don't look impressive necessarily, but they do well to identify players that fits their needs and fit well with what they want to do. Oh yeah, and they still have Manning under center and two young WRs to go along with Wayne and Dallas Clark.

Do hope the NFC East helps beat up the rest of the division for us.

TexCanada
04-26-2010, 03:28 PM
To the original post:
Ok I mean this as a totally honest question: have you looked back on previous drafts and looked at players you thought were good late round picks? Have they had any success?

I don't mean to sound like I'm taking one side or the other here, just wondering how successful you have been in the past at the scouting game.

badboy
04-26-2010, 03:31 PM
I think our Round 1 and Round 2 picks will be consistent performers.

Round 3 is where there might be trouble. Our history of drafting DTs is awful.

After Round 3, I think it's a crap shoot no matter who is taken, or why he was taken. I think some players succeed, where others might fail, because of how well they match up for the offense or defense system they're plugged into.

If Smithiak selected players less on "project" and more on "gameday readiness" then I'm good with who we took. I actually like this draft better than last year's, with the exception of the Cushing pick which will never be matched. It was an Andre Johnson type of pick, IMO. Should have been so obvious, but 14 teams before us were blinded somehow.

Thanks for the analysis. You obviously put a lot of work into it, as did some others you mentioned. Next year, it would be cool to have you guys writing weekly discussion "Question & Answer" columns for this board (to discuss potential draft picks with the rest of us).Awesome suggestion and thanks for the compliment. Not sure RMartin65 and Beerlover want to go through that again but I just love it. Of course I did not learn from my first divorce either. Maybe you could drop me a pm after this season ends to remind me. I understand also about the "get them on the field NOW" mentality but then again, maybe we should not be in that position? I have for the most part defended Kubiak and Rick Smith but they really need to turn it up and I am not sure this draft will do that. I still love our over all roster but...

badboy
04-26-2010, 03:44 PM
The team has had the same three weaknesses forever: poor secondary (specifically as it relates to the big play and lack of creating a big play), no interior pass rush (those smaller, quick, agile DTs are really working out, huh?), and no running game when it counts. The running game has had moments, but I don't think adding Tate, a 6th round G, and 7 TEs is going to help get the short yardage. We'll see. I'm cautiously more optimistic about the running game being fixed than I am the other two areas.

So if this draft yields a bunch of good players, I still don't see those 3 key areas being resolved. It's like having 25 stud pitchers on your major league roster. That's great, but who hits?Very well put. I have advocated a big DT to stop the run and push the center back into the QB to disrupt. Sacks are great from the middle but take what we can get. Then, the new D coaches were able to stop the run so to be fair, I had to shut up. If we could get our DEs to get the sacks, I'd be ok with smaller DTs. Just not sure how a fast, smaller DT gets past the mashed tater eaters on the other side.

Free safety? Once we knew Earl Thomas was gone, I thought we would draft for FS 4-5th rounds. I was focused on Robert Johnson Utah who went about where I projected him and was stunned on Rashad Jones. He is going to be a player if he does not hurt himself crashing into opponents. I think he want to be a bulldozer after football is over.

Honoring Earl 34
04-26-2010, 03:44 PM
To the original post:
Ok I mean this as a totally honest question: have you looked back on previous drafts and looked at players you thought were good late round picks? Have they had any success?

I don't mean to sound like I'm taking one side or the other here, just wondering how successful you have been in the past at the scouting game.

I think what we do ... me included ... is watch some games , youtube videos , and read from some guys who may not know much , and get names . When these names start falling and we pick a guy that Joe Blow ranked lower ... we panic . Then we pick a position that we feel is not a need and all hell breaks lose .

Right now you can't get to up or to down about the draft because nobody knows what's going to happen with these players . So I'll just wait and see and hopefully we get 4-5 guys who contribute alot this year .

Brandon420tx
04-26-2010, 03:45 PM
Maybe we're still really high on Troy Nolan

Goldensilence
04-26-2010, 03:48 PM
Maybe we're still really high on Troy Nolan

Can't see how you can be high on a guy that was injured his entire rookie year. IMO this is Brandon Harrison 2.0.

IMO they're banking a LOT on Wilson being healthy this year and I think that's a mistake.

badboy
04-26-2010, 03:48 PM
Who dare speak ill of Rick and Gary?
Not surprised that it came from someone who understands the draft and how valuable each pick is and how important it is to have a coherent vision that addresses areas of critical need. Worrying about special teams in the draft when there are areas of still critical need on this roster.
We still need a center.
Center. Free safety. Guard. Tight End. Oh wait, we're set for life on TEs.Two guys I had focused on for center JD Walton and Eric Olsen were selected by Denver. Imagine that. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114124?tag=pageRow;pageContainer

Your statement in bold is on target. I alomst wished we drafted someone who was extremely good but not projected to play on ST.

badboy
04-26-2010, 03:52 PM
If you're talking about Trindon Holliday.....well STs is 1 third of the game and having a explosive returner who can take one to the house on any given return can single handedly win you games. Every time we've given Joe Marciano a explosive returner our STs have been tops in the league. I love the Holliday pick...Andre Davis NEEDED to be replaced, so that was a CRITICAL need. You give this offense a short field and they're going to do some serious damage.

Also people need to get over the TEs......we picked one TE and a TE who was one of the most complete TEs in the draft and a guy who gets compared to Owen Daniels. I hate to tell people this, but I think this will be Owen Daniels last year as a Texan, if the team is already looking towards the future how can anybody be down on them for addressing the need this year?Not to speak for Sh but I thought his comments were directed at every player we look at has to be able to play special teams. Not necessarily a bad thing but go get great players. If they can play ST ok. Holliday is exceptional at what he does. 65 and Beerlover and I think he will make a positive impact every game. How many Texans do that?

badboy
04-26-2010, 03:54 PM
I think he's referring the ILB pick in the 4th who has already been deemed a special teams player and back up LB. He will compete for a LB job, but likely won't be the starter in 2010. I have to agree on that one if that's what he's referring to. I don't like the pick either, and I think he could have been picked later in the 4th or 5th. We needed a big 2-gap DT in the 3rd and pass rushing DT in the 4th to help fix the line. DT is still a weakness for this team, just like it has been since 2002.

If he's complaining about Holliday, the late 6th pick, well then I guess he's just being nitpicky. I like that pick myself, but I also see how he can be an impact player for this team and possibly replace the aging Andre Davis. To me that was a good value considering the draft position.Most of the good big DTs were gone by our original 2nd round pick and many fans are ok with a RB, but I do feel your pain.

badboy
04-26-2010, 04:03 PM
Really I too was hoping the FO would come out and nail this draft seeing as how several of the teams we're slated to play next year have gotten better this offseason.

I'm left knowing we got BETTER, I'm just wondering how much and if it'll be enough.Gs, I'm running out of time at work so will address your ? on 40 speeds. They do seem to contradict but in watching the two guys play, Wilson gets back into a play much quicker. Personally, I think it is his instincts. He seems to subconciously know when he is getting beat and his body kicks into "CATCH UP!" mode really fast. If you watched NFL Total Access they replayed Wilson being beat and then he bursts back into right corner of field and perfectly positioned his body to interupr the ball. It bounced off his shoulder. Perfect example of what I look for in a player.

Jackson seems to hesitate just barely as if mentally talking to himself that he just got beat and then starts to go after the guy. Hopefully, he can be coached out of that. We all have heard that an elite corner has ability to erase that mental chalk board after giving up a play. Wilson seems to do that.

Grid
04-26-2010, 04:06 PM
lets try not to lose sight of the fact that we had an awesome offense last year DESPITE the lack of a running game. And we have addressed our running game a bit so if it is even a marginal improvement over last season, our offense is going to be even better.

On defense we struggled but we HAVE picked up a ready to play rookie CB and possibly a pass rushing DT.

We lost how many games by less than a touchdown last season?

I feel like we showed last season that we can compete with anyone in the league.. and I dont think any other team this offseason has made such incredible strides that they would now be "out of our league". We have improved some.. and we were already good.

The real "next step" that this team needs to make isnt by improving its personel.. we need to go out and play 4 quarters and win those close games. So... dont get too upset. We are still a good team... and dont read too much into our schedule either. Every year people get "difficult schedules"... and every year.. alot of those teams that thought they had a difficult schedule turns out to have had an easy or medium difficulty schedules.

badboy
04-26-2010, 04:08 PM
Really I too was hoping the FO would come out and nail this draft seeing as how several of the teams we're slated to play next year have gotten better this offseason.

I'm left knowing we got BETTER, I'm just wondering how much and if it'll be enough.RB, I am ok with your evaluation of the two backs but disagree on what we need. Tate like Mathews are fast with better skills catching out of the backfield than Gerhart. We already have backs than can do that. Our need was not a slightly better than good runner that catches well but rather a power back that moves the ball and gets the tough two yrads for a 1st or TD. A power back that can catch a pass or tweo a game but is a pile driver. That is hands down TG.

Corrosion
04-26-2010, 04:10 PM
Gs, I'm running out of time at work so will address your ? on 40 speeds. They do seem to contradict but in watching the two guys play, Wilson gets back into a play much quicker. Personally, I think it is his instincts. He seems to subconciously know when he is getting beat and his body kicks into "CATCH UP!" mode really fast. If you watched NFL Total Access they replayed Wilson being beat and then he bursts back into right corner of field and perfectly positioned his body to interupr the ball. It bounced off his shoulder. Perfect example of what I look for in a player.

Jackson seems to hesitate just barely as if mentally talking to himself that he just got beat and then starts to go after the guy. Hopefully, he can be coached out of that. We all have heard that an elite corner has ability to erase that mental chalk board after giving up a play. Wilson seems to do that.

I had Wilson rated as the best available corner and Jackson right behind him on draft day .... They werent seperated by much imo.

But the more I think about it the more I can see why the Texans chose Jackson .... Nick Saban coached DB - He's NFL ready from that standpoint.

As for recovery speed - You have to take into account the level of competition. The SEC is a few steps above the Big Ten in terms of overall talent.

The fact that the Texans had their choice of every CB not named Haden and they took Jackson tells me they got their guy - not just leftovers. I'll give them the benifit of the doubt.

badboy
04-26-2010, 04:13 PM
Really I too was hoping the FO would come out and nail this draft seeing as how several of the teams we're slated to play next year have gotten better this offseason.

I'm left knowing we got BETTER, I'm just wondering how much and if it'll be enough.GS on round 5, Robert Johnson Utah Fs was gone by our original pick. He went to Titans pick 150 one spot before us.Petrus LG was available in 4th but I think Wade Smith locks up the Oline and it looks like Texans are looking at Center Faneca.

badboy
04-26-2010, 04:18 PM
Thanks badboy for the draft thoughts. Rep.

You are either going to look brilliant, or lose a little draft cred in 2-3 years. Either way your words have been marked!Thanks, I think? At least Gary has a contract, but I will be here. I have eaten crow on line before. Walter was not my guy when he came on board and I am not really a big fan of TEs but OD had me looking for gravy to make the bird go down easier. Who knows if you guys run me from this MB maybe Charley Casserly can get me on ESPN. If I left my hair grow out a bit I will look about the same as a former Dallas coach and Mel Kiper!

badboy
04-26-2010, 04:23 PM
Hey, I wasn't stupefyingly thrilled with all the Texans selections, but where do you get the idea that only the Texans had Jackson rated highest at the time? Good lord, even Kiper had him rated as the highest CB available at the time and his choices aren't exactly secret.

If we got a legitimate #1 CB in the first round, we've improved (Dunta was nobody's #1 but us)I don't use Kiper as a source and listen to him only the week of the draft because he is at the table. I am not a Jackson hater and he will be a starter. I just disagree on the type of CB we need. If we had an Earl Thomas or Nate Allen behind him, I'd like him more.

I think Dunta is now the Atlanta Falcons # 1 CB.

buddyboy
04-26-2010, 04:26 PM
Thanks, I think? At least Gary has a contract, but I will be here. I have eaten crow on line before. Walter was not my guy when he came on board and I am not really a big fan of TEs but OD had me looking for gravy to make the bird go down easier. Who knows if you guys run me from this MB maybe Charley Casserly can get me on ESPN. If I left my hair grow out a bit I will look about the same as a former Dallas coach and Mel Kiper!

You say that you realize you've been wrong on multiple occasions, yet you keep making blanket statements that have no proof or foundation like:

"Jackson is not a cover guy"
"Only Texans had him [Jackson] rated higher than Wilson or McCourty"
"Shelley Smith a throw away pick that will not beat out any of current OGs"
"[Gettis] in Red Zone who could make one of current WRs obsolete"

You seem to have the ability to read the future if you KNOW that Smith isn't going to beat out any of the other guards, and that this Gettis guy would have for sure beaten out Kevin Walter or JJ (We got the TE/WR, who you also claimed "isn't as good" with 100% certainty).

I'm not sure how you can say all these things without having seen these players on the field for the Texans.

HOU-TEX
04-26-2010, 04:31 PM
I think some of us are overrating our evaluation and scouting skills, no? It's a disappointing draft because the Texans didn't take players y'all had rated higher?

Why don't we give the professional scouts, coaches and GM the benefit of the doubt with this group until proven otherwise? Or not, I guess

texasguy346
04-26-2010, 04:37 PM
Jackson is not a cover guy but a Dunta clone just a tad faster. Only Texans had him rated higher than Wilson or McCourty.

You do realize that both Jackson and McCourty went before Wilson don't you? The Patriots took McCourty with the 27th pick and the Jets took Wilson at 29th overall. So at a minimum at least two teams had Wilson ranked lower on their boards.

Thorn
04-26-2010, 04:39 PM
Until we see Jackson and Tate play in a couple of games, it's all speculation anyway. Until they prove otherwise, I like the selections.

Honoring Earl 34
04-26-2010, 04:54 PM
I think some of us are overrating our evaluation and scouting skills, no? It's a disappointing draft because the Texans didn't take players y'all had rated higher?

Why don't we give the professional scouts, coaches and GM the benefit of the doubt with this group until proven otherwise? Or not, I guess

Speak for yourself cause I put my talent evaluation skills right up there with a former GM . Who cares if it's Charley Casserly , he was a former GM you know .

I think it fairly easy's to get the positions right ( in the ballpark ) early . After the 2nd round , it becomes a crap shoot as to where players go , because of different evaluations .

buddyboy
04-26-2010, 05:07 PM
Speak for yourself cause I put my talent evaluation skills right up there with a former GM . Who cares if it's Charley Casserly , he was a former GM you know .

I think it fairly easy's to get the positions right ( in the ballpark ) early . After the 2nd round , it becomes a crap shoot as to where players go , because of different evaluations .

Exactly. We as fans need to stop thinking that the FO is reaching in round 5 for a player with 6-7th round talent. At that point in the draft, everyone is pretty much on equal footing.

wagonhed
04-26-2010, 05:17 PM
My problems with this draft are similar to some other's problems.


First of all, sure, anything past the 3rd round is a crap shoot. That doesn't mean you just go out and draft a ton of specialty players or depth players. You still aim to get people that can compete for a starting job unless you desperately need depth at a certain spot (S, LB).

I'm most frustrated with our lack of safety picks. 6 picks after the 3rd and we couldn't find one safety to bring into camp. Lame. BPA is a good general strategy but eventually you have to get players at positions of need. When the BPA just keeps ending up being at TE, you've got a problem.

My second problem is with DTs, not just our drafting but our strategy. I reject the distinction between "huge run-stopping DTs" and "small, quick pass-rushing DTs". The difference is in how many gaps they can man and how many blockers they require. A huge DT IS a pass-rushing DT because they require a double team and free up the rest of our line. 4 quick linemen is a failed pass-rushing strategy. Getting just a wee bit faster at DT isn't going to help that. For this reason I don't like the Mitchell pick.

Finally, I'm annoyed that we aren't addressing C. I'm sure it's because Kubiak loves Myers. Whatever. I want a real center, but I'm not surprised that the coaches don't feel the same way.

michaelm
04-26-2010, 05:19 PM
2. Texans: Ben Tate 5'11"220 4.4 ok a strong,fast guy & we get an extra 3rd not knowing we'd give it away immediately. Boy, did that look stupid. Still, 3rd best back on my board.
Badboy: Toby Gerhart 6' 231 4.5s He is sitting right there! Dennison said both were rated even and if we could have gotten Tate and kept the 3rd, brilliant. But we didn't. So much for TG versus Jonathan Dwyer.


The net result of the three trades: The Texans ended up with Tate, an extra fourth-round pick (102nd overall) and a fifth-round pick (144th) that was six spots higher than their original selection at 150.

Many people believe that Tate is better in our system than Gerhart would've been. I'd say a majority of people probably believe that Tate is the better back in our system.
I don't know how anyone could even remotely think the Texans "looked stupid" by way of the trades they made.

Tate + extra 4th + improving 5th round position by 6 spots > Gerhart all day, every day.
Except for someone who is bitter because the team didn't make the pick that they wanted, which is kinda how you're coming across, IMO.

Personnaly, I would have taken Tate over Gerhart straight up, but the extra 4th, and moving up in the 5th make it an absolute no-brainer in my book.

Corrosion
04-26-2010, 05:30 PM
My problems with this draft are similar to some other's problems.


First of all, sure, anything past the 3rd round is a crap shoot. That doesn't mean you just go out and draft a ton of specialty players or depth players. You still aim to get people that can compete for a starting job unless you desperately need depth at a certain spot (S, LB).

I'm most frustrated with our lack of safety picks. 6 picks after the 3rd and we couldn't find one safety to bring into camp. Lame. BPA is a good general strategy but eventually you have to get players at positions of need. When the BPA just keeps ending up being at TE, you've got a problem.

My second problem is with DTs, not just our drafting but our strategy. I reject the distinction between "huge run-stopping DTs" and "small, quick pass-rushing DTs". The difference is in how many gaps they can man and how many blockers they require. A huge DT IS a pass-rushing DT because they require a double team and free up the rest of our line. 4 quick linemen is a failed pass-rushing strategy. Getting just a wee bit faster at DT isn't going to help that. For this reason I don't like the Mitchell pick.

Finally, I'm annoyed that we aren't addressing C. I'm sure it's because Kubiak loves Myers. Whatever. I want a real center, but I'm not surprised that the coaches don't feel the same way.

Tell that to the Giants who won the Superbowl.

Im bitchin about FS and C as well as a swing tackle ..... The roster is far from set at this point. There is still the June cuts and a few FA's left on the market.
You are spot on about Myers ..... Ive had that conversation with people in the know.
There are things he does very well like getting to the second level but when he is faced with a much bigger DT he struggles .... then again so do most centers around the league.

Goldensilence
04-26-2010, 05:45 PM
RB, I am ok with your evaluation of the two backs but disagree on what we need. Tate like Mathews are fast with better skills catching out of the backfield than Gerhart. We already have backs than can do that. Our need was not a slightly better than good runner that catches well but rather a power back that moves the ball and gets the tough two yrads for a 1st or TD. A power back that can catch a pass or tweo a game but is a pile driver. That is hands down TG.

Quickly. Good evaluation/explanation on your take between Wilson and Jackson. Prior to the draft I was more high on Wilson as well, but I can live with Jackson.

On a side note as history has proven itself we don't NEED a big load at RB to punch the ball in the goal line or get the tough yards. NFL is ripe wwith smaller guys who had a nose for the endzone like Emmitt Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson. Marcus Allen, Warrick Dunn, etc.

Some people seemed obsessed or locked onto the idea there needs to be symmetry with your backs ie one smaller burner and one big load guy. I don't think this NEEDS to be the case. We just need two productive backs regardless of size. NFL is also ripe with big body running backs who can't move a pile like Dayne, Wells, Etc.

GS on round 5, Robert Johnson Utah Fs was gone by our original pick. He went to Titans pick 150 one spot before us.Petrus LG was available in 4th but I think Wade Smith locks up the Oline and it looks like Texans are looking at Center Faneca.

Fo must really be banking on Smith coming in and making a difference. I have hopes he does as well, just not totally sold on the idea. Petrus would've made an excellent fit here IMO. Faneca has played his entire career at guard far as I know. If we do get Faneca I have hopes we move Smith to RG and Try Caldwell back at Center.

I could live with a line that looks like Brown- Faneca- Caldwell- Smith- Winston.

As for Robert Johnson he would've been available with our 5th rounder instead we took McMannis.

Speedy
04-26-2010, 05:50 PM
Many people believe that Tate is better in our system than Gerhart would've been. Exactly! And since the Texans passed on Gerhart when he was sitting in their lap, I guess they'd be one of those people. And fortunately, they're the people that count.

Runner
04-26-2010, 06:27 PM
I think some of us are overrating our evaluation and scouting skills, no? It's a disappointing draft because the Texans didn't take players y'all had rated higher?

Why don't we give the professional scouts, coaches and GM the benefit of the doubt with this group until proven otherwise? Or not, I guess

Every pick by every team in the draft was done by a team of professionals; I don't think that means every pick was therefore beyond criticism, right until proven otherwise, and/or off limits to thoughtful discussion.

Sure, I see a lot of less than insighful posts, but this board would be boring if drafts/free agent signings/play calls/starting line-ups/etc discussions were limited to "Smithiak did it, they are pros, I'm an ignorant amateur, A+".

I've found some interesting discussions here. Please carry on...

Runner
04-26-2010, 06:36 PM
I think it fairly easy's to get the positions right ( in the ballpark ) early . After the 2nd round , it becomes a crap shoot as to where players go , because of different evaluations .

Agreed.

I found the "why did they take position A over position B in round X" discussion more interesting than the player 1 vs player 2 discussions.

Corrosion
04-26-2010, 07:08 PM
Agreed.

I found the "why did they take position A over position B in round X" discussion more interesting than the player 1 vs player 2 discussions.

I think most of us had the positions of need right ....

I think the running game and specifically the interior OL has to be evaluated on what a high draft choice in Tate does behind it rather than what Chris Brown and Co did behind them last season (I dont think Slaton was right physically from the get go) before we can really evaluate them.
Many(Most) of us believe that Myers needs to be upgraded along with at least one of the OG spots. By waiting until the 6th round to address the interior OL they give me the idea they were happy with those players performance at least to the extent that they couldnt upgrade them from round 4 on with players who would make an impact or had a chance to take someone's job.
The lack of attention to FS just boggles my mind tho with only Barber , Nolan , Wilson and Pollard on the roster.

phantom17
04-26-2010, 07:09 PM
lets try not to lose sight of the fact that we had an awesome offense last year DESPITE the lack of a running game. And we have addressed our running game a bit so if it is even a marginal improvement over last season, our offense is going to be even better.

On defense we struggled but we HAVE picked up a ready to play rookie CB and possibly a pass rushing DT.

We lost how many games by less than a touchdown last season?

I feel like we showed last season that we can compete with anyone in the league.. and I dont think any other team this offseason has made such incredible strides that they would now be "out of our league". We have improved some.. and we were already good.

The real "next step" that this team needs to make isnt by improving its personel.. we need to go out and play 4 quarters and win those close games. So... dont get too upset. We are still a good team... and dont read too much into our schedule either. Every year people get "difficult schedules"... and every year.. alot of those teams that thought they had a difficult schedule turns out to have had an easy or medium difficulty schedules.

I agree! This team needs to be MENTALLY TOUGH!

Fox
04-26-2010, 07:15 PM
Until we see Jackson and Tate play in a couple of games, it's all speculation anyway. Until they prove otherwise, I like the selections.

This is the basic sentiment I've adopted over the years. Unless I've been following a specific player closely for a couple of years and know they're a dud, I'm not going to bash the selection until I see them play for our team. I prefer to be optimistic and figure our F.O. has a better idea of what they need than I do. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be discussion, if you've been watching Sherrick McManis get burned up in Evanston then by all means do share.

It's just very difficult, IMO, to call out some of these mid to later round guys as being poor selections based on highlight videos, stat lines, and combine measurables. For example, just looking at the last couple years, I was pretty disappointed when I saw we'd selected Glover Quin last year. I'd never heard his name before and he was smallish, had average speed, and wasn't exactly coming from a football power house. Then he hits the field for us and impresses from mini camps forward. On the other hand you have a guy like Xavier Adibi, a name I'd seen, with impressive numbers, production, and pedigree from Va. Tech. I was a fan of the pick for the above reasons, but he hasn't worked out thus far.

Some of you have obviously done a lot more homework on these guys than I have, but where I'm sitting I prefer to get excited about this draft and about seeing what they're going to do on the field.

rmartin65
04-26-2010, 07:21 PM
Great work badboy. I wish I could rep you for it.

I really cannot find fault with anything you have going there. Moeki I would not take there, but we took a TE anyway, so there is not much of a difference there.

I am not a Jones fan. He is strictly a SS in my opinion, and would not contribute to the team. I dont think Jones would be anything more than Pollard's backup and a special teams player. Then again, maybe that would not be terrible.

You are one of the first people to dislike Smith. Admittedly, he was not the guy either of us had targeted, but from the little I watched and have read about him he sounds good. Athletic and mean, something the Texans could use. I would have liked to see the spot addressed earlier though.

Jeff Owens!! I was hoping for him so much there in the 7th. Strong, yet still quick. Oh well. Dickerson sounds pretty promising, I would be willing to give this one to the front office here.

Ha, Trindon Holliday. We nailed that pick on the 2nd mock draft. I hope he makes me proud this season, I have my reputation at stake now.

JB
04-26-2010, 07:31 PM
I think most of us had the positions of need right ....

I think the running game and specifically the interior OL has to be evaluated on what a high draft choice in Tate does behind it rather than what Chris Brown and Co did behind them last season (I dont think Slaton was right physically from the get go) before we can really evaluate them.
Many(Most) of us believe that Myers needs to be upgraded along with at least one of the OG spots. By waiting until the 6th round to address the interior OL they give me the idea they were happy with those players performance at least to the extent that they couldnt upgrade them from round 4 on with players who would make an impact or had a chance to take someone's job.
The lack of attention to FS just boggles my mind tho with only Barber , Nolan , Wilson and Pollard on the roster.

That's what we had last year ( without Nolan). We will be replacing the depth and getting better. Busing, Ferguson & Russell will be out and Folk, Webster and ? maybe.. I don't know, but we are improving our depth with quality young guys hopefully. The entire roster is better and if we are concerned about who's going to be the backup that is a good thing. Wilson & Pollard are decent starters, a whole lot better than Busing & Barber as starters.

Corrosion
04-26-2010, 07:58 PM
That's what we had last year ( without Nolan). We will be replacing the depth and getting better. Busing, Ferguson & Russell will be out and Folk, Webster and ? maybe.. I don't know, but we are improving our depth with quality young guys hopefully. The entire roster is better and if we are concerned about who's going to be the backup that is a good thing. Wilson & Pollard are decent starters, a whole lot better than Busing & Barber as starters.

I like both , Wilson was a difference maker on this team last year ... But the question that looms over Pollard is can he stay on the field ?
GTexans breakdownHere (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71525) of the situation makes sense ....

3. The coaching staff has reason to be confident in development of Nolan, Barber, etc.

5. The safeties we wanted in each round were chosen before us.
I wanted Earl Thomas in the 1st. He went at 14
In the second, I wanted Taylor Mays. He went 2 spots before us.
I like Major Wright in the 3rd, and he went right before us.
I have no explanation for Reshad Jones, who I also liked. He was there for us in the 5th, and we passed on him. We chose McMannis instead, who I had never heard of. Jones was supposed to go earlier, so maybe there was an issue there we didn't know about


I just think they didnt see anyone who they thought would beat out the players currently on the roster

PhilpW
04-26-2010, 08:19 PM
Historically Nolan Nawrocki has been less than flattering of the Texans drafts. Here is this years take:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/04/25/ravens-patriots-stand-out-on-draft-weekend

Houston Texans
GM Rick Smith filled some pressing needs with the first three picks, landing two potential starters in Kareem Jackson and Ben Tate with his first two picks, both of whom fit the Texans' schemes perfectly. The team might have reached slightly in the next two rounds, but Earl Mitchell can have an impact as a nickel rusher and Darryl Sharpton value on special teams. Rounds 4-7 brought great upside, as TE Garrett Graham should benefit learning from fellow Wisconsin grad Owen Daniels. Sherrick McManis could provide versatility as a corner/safety. Shelley Smith fits the Texans' run game very well and has swing backup potential. Trindon Holliday could provide a spark in the return game, and Dorin Dickerson, drafted as a receiver, has upside to be groomed. Smith moved down the board several times, acquiring additional picks and landed nine rookies who could fend for roster spots, including three potential starters in the first three rounds. It may not appear flashy, but it was a productive draft, valuing intelligence and character, as he drafted very safely.
Grade: B-plus

Goldensilence
04-26-2010, 09:05 PM
I like both , Wilson was a difference maker on this team last year ... But the question that looms over Pollard is can he stay on the field ?
GTexans breakdownHere (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71525) of the situation makes sense ....





I just think they didnt see anyone who they thought would beat out the players currently on the roster

I think you got it backwards. Pollard was a difference maker on the team last year and Wilson has the question of staying on the field.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=4494

Past four years hasn't lasted an entire 16 game season.

I guess with some parts of the draft is that they might not have seen guys who might not have been able to compete with starters or guys on the depth chart. The problem I have with that is that Kubiak tends to lock onto certain players and keep them around longer then they should be because:

A. They work hard in practice and Gary likes to reward it.
B. Are good guys in the locker room
C. Gary has a soft spot for them
D. Contract status

I don't have a problem with one or two. What I do have a problem with is 3 when some of the guys he keeps around are physically and talent wise. maxed out and we pass on guys that have a higher ceiling. 4 is a problem too when you have guys like Anthony Weaver hanging around not producing like their contract should and still getting the starting nod or bulk of snaps.

I'm also surprised that I see some guys on the board selling themselves on Troy Nolan. He was injured last year and missed the entire season. He's an unknown and for all purposes is a rookie.

leebigeztx
04-26-2010, 09:12 PM
There were alot of people who had jackson and tate over the 2 youre bitching about. Go back and check the draft grades from 06. Classic fan overreaction.

Texans_Chick
04-26-2010, 10:00 PM
I think everyone should do draft grades using emoticons. Draft grades are silly so as long as you are being silly, you should use emoticons.

My TC blog take:
Houston Texans draft link dump + commentary + emoticon draft grades (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/04/houston_texans_draft_link_dump.html)

Mostly stuff that diehards know, but a few fun facts mixed in. Hardest part of the post was figuring out the emoticons that best reflected fan feelings.

:fans:

ArlingtonTexan
04-26-2010, 10:09 PM
There are legitimate questions to ask about certain picks or moves the texans, but think that this was an irresponsible draft probably goes too far.

swtbound07
04-26-2010, 10:33 PM
I dislike the statement that "These guys are professional, you can't criticize".

I can damn well criticize. The front office may get checks, but I watch football too. Owen Daniel is a Pro Bowl Tight end. Since Owen, we have acquired 6 more tight ends that I'm aware of. We've never had anybody anywhere approaching competent at FS. We've acquired none that I'm aware of. Generally this board is right when it has a collective opinion. We didn't need to be paid for our opinions when we all thought Carr should have sat behind tony banks to learn the NFL. We didn't need paychecks when we all thought the Jason Babin pick was ridiculously stupid. We needed a good offseason as a franchise to get over that final hump to being a playoff team. We got a shiny new kicker and a really fast midget. Color me disappointed.

Corrosion
04-26-2010, 10:36 PM
I think you got it backwards. Pollard was a difference maker on the team last year and Wilson has the question of staying on the field.

Woops I did type that backwards .... :headhurts:

steelbtexan
04-26-2010, 10:49 PM
I think what we do ... me included ... is watch some games , youtube videos , and read from some guys who may not know much , and get names . When these names start falling and we pick a guy that Joe Blow ranked lower ... we panic . Then we pick a position that we feel is not a need and all hell breaks lose .

Right now you can't get to up or to down about the draft because nobody knows what's going to happen with these players . So I'll just wait and see and hopefully we get 4-5 guys who contribute alot this year .

This draft was day 1 starter material through rd 3. IMHO

I would have traded the rest of my draft to get into the top 5 of the 3rd rd.

Then you could have gotten 4 day 1 starters.

Asamoah fell to the 3rd. So did Burnett and Wright. Immediate impact guys.

texansdrummer
04-27-2010, 12:53 AM
Honestly....I like this draft. Admittedly, I was not necessarily as thrilled about it when it went down - but in retrospect, that's because I don't spend my entire life watching film and interviewing players.

Having had the opportunity to review our picks, I am excited about what we've done. It's a good thing that draft day is no longer one of the most exciting days for our franchise.....that means we're getting better.

I can see how Tate may end up making a huge difference for us. I can get on board with Kareem as well. Trindon is definitely gonna provide some excitement, and the other picks added competition to our team. From 3-4 picks on down....I like that we chose the BPA, vs. filling a need, because if we purely chose on need at that point, what real chance would those guys seriously have? It'd be a total waste!

I've actually been more disappointed with several of our previous drafts.......considering where we were at the time, and what was available.

I think we had a very good draft.....let's just keep in mind that as our team improves, the draft may not (fortunately) be quite as exciting as it may have been in the past.

Welcome aboard, our new Texans!

buddyboy
04-27-2010, 01:22 AM
This draft was day 1 starter material through rd 3. IMHO

I would have traded the rest of my draft to get into the top 5 of the 3rd rd.

Then you could have gotten 4 day 1 starters.

Asamoah fell to the 3rd. So did Burnett and Wright. Immediate impact guys.

This is absurd. There are no guaranteed "day 1 starter material" players in ANY round. Your draft strategy sounds a lot like "Smarter than Everyone Else in the Room" Casserly who moved up with multiple picks to pick Babin (obviously an IMPACT player) and traded several picks for P-Burnt, since those players were just "MUST HAVES".

The Texans FO has been making some good late round picks, why throw them away for, let me emphasize, a CHANCE to get a good starter with a third rounder?

leebigeztx
04-27-2010, 08:25 AM
I think everyone should do draft grades using emoticons. Draft grades are silly so as long as you are being silly, you should use emoticons.

My TC blog take:
Houston Texans draft link dump + commentary + emoticon draft grades (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/04/houston_texans_draft_link_dump.html)

Mostly stuff that diehards know, but a few fun facts mixed in. Hardest part of the post was figuring out the emoticons that best reflected fan feelings.

:fans:

This needs to be said a million times. Just because a poster wanted taylor mays or this guys, now he's pissed and its a dissapointing draft. As i have said a few times, call me in 3 years to see about a draft. Maybe daniels is slow to recover and graham or one of the other guys step and and become a pro bowl type. Who would have thought quinn or mccain from last year would be as productive as they were? I guess thats why they call people fans

badboy
04-27-2010, 08:40 AM
Hey, I wasn't stupefyingly thrilled with all the Texans selections, but where do you get the idea that only the Texans had Jackson rated highest at the time? Good lord, even Kiper had him rated as the highest CB available at the time and his choices aren't exactly secret.

If we got a legitimate #1 CB in the first round, we've improved (Dunta was nobody's #1 but us)Driving home yesterday, I was flipping between the four local sports channels as I usually do and 790 the ESPN station and 610 sports channel each had "experts" voicing their evaluation of the draft. Each had Wilson rated higher than Jackson and one gave the Texans a C- grade for the draft.

Texans_Chick
04-27-2010, 08:51 AM
Driving home yesterday, I was flipping between the four local sports channels as I usually do and 790 the ESPN station and 610 sports channel each had "experts" voicing their evaluation of the draft. Each had Wilson rated higher than Jackson and one gave the Texans a C- grade for the draft.

Scouts, Inc. had Jackson as the #2 CB in the draft, and the #19 pick in their top 100.

BIG TORO
04-27-2010, 08:59 AM
Im happy for the most part and I was wanting and talking about Kareem on this board before he was even mentioned.

leebigeztx
04-27-2010, 09:02 AM
Driving home yesterday, I was flipping between the four local sports channels as I usually do and 790 the ESPN station and 610 sports channel each had "experts" voicing their evaluation of the draft. Each had Wilson rated higher than Jackson and one gave the Texans a C- grade for the draft.

If you want to hear about real foorball and real opinions, get sirius and listen to those guys. As texans chick have said, on most scouts boards, jackson was the 19th rated prospect and #2 corner. He can come in and play and start right now either as a boundry or slot guy. In regards to taylor mays, I like the guy and maybe he will be a good player, but teams will iso him because he has slow hips. The guy has no flexibility to turn in transition and run without losing speed. I'm not saying the texans shouldn't have drafted him, but you're basically committing to single high with him.

threetoedpete
04-27-2010, 09:05 AM
The only questions here is : Is one Earl Thomas or one Mike Iupati worth all the depth and weapons they accumulated in the 2010 draft? And does this class give us enough of a lift to win the division out right ? And we won't know the answers until we've run through a sixteen game schedule. I'm not a professional scout. What I see is a team who stood up true to their draft board and drafted pieces that they were lacking. Now whether or not they get us over the hump and sweep two division foes and split with the other, we'll just have to wait and see. But there is no doubt this was a "scouts" draft.

Corrosion
04-27-2010, 09:22 AM
Driving home yesterday, I was flipping between the four local sports channels as I usually do and 790 the ESPN station and 610 sports channel each had "experts" voicing their evaluation of the draft. Each had Wilson rated higher than Jackson and one gave the Texans a C- grade for the draft.


Scouts, Inc. had Jackson as the #2 CB in the draft, and the #19 pick in their top 100.

Where the experts had them ranked makes no difference ....

Where we had them ranked matters not ....

Where the Texans had them ranked .... matters.

We can complain about it all we want but we cant change it and until they get on the field we wont have any real idea of who was right and who was wrong.

They are pretty close in measurables with Jackson a half inch taller and two pounds heavier - their 40 times are almost a mirror image. And Jackson played against considerably better competition in the SEC. Lets give this kid and this staff the benifit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

The only questions here is : Is one Earl Thomas or one Mike Iupati worth all the depth and weapons they accumulated in the 2010 draft? And does this class give us enough of a lift to win the division out right ? And we want know the answers until we've run through a sixteen game schedule. I'm not a professional scout. What I see is a team who stood up true to their draft board and drafted pieces that they were lacking. Now whether or not they get us over the hump and sweep two division foes and split with the other, we'll just have to wait and see. But here is no doubt this was a "scouts" draft.

I think that depends upon their head to head meetings with the Dolts and in particular how the Texans front seven perform against the Dolts OL who has taken a step back. They really needed some help at the LT spot and didnt get it. If the Texans can exploit that weakness or another team puts Manning on the shelf because of it ..... this division is ripe for the taking.

beerlover
04-27-2010, 09:33 AM
Historically Nolan Nawrocki has been less than flattering of the Texans drafts. Here is this years take:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/04/25/ravens-patriots-stand-out-on-draft-weekend

Houston Texans
GM Rick Smith filled some pressing needs with the first three picks, landing two potential starters in Kareem Jackson and Ben Tate with his first two picks, both of whom fit the Texans' schemes perfectly. The team might have reached slightly in the next two rounds, but Earl Mitchell can have an impact as a nickel rusher and Darryl Sharpton value on special teams. Rounds 4-7 brought great upside, as TE Garrett Graham should benefit learning from fellow Wisconsin grad Owen Daniels. Sherrick McManis could provide versatility as a corner/safety. Shelley Smith fits the Texans' run game very well and has swing backup potential. Trindon Holliday could provide a spark in the return game, and Dorin Dickerson, drafted as a receiver, has upside to be groomed. Smith moved down the board several times, acquiring additional picks and landed nine rookies who could fend for roster spots, including three potential starters in the first three rounds. It may not appear flashy, but it was a productive draft, valuing intelligence and character, as he drafted very safely.
Grade: B-plus

I tend to view the Texans draft similar, productive, keyed on intelligence/character, athletes & played it very safely. they traded down in 2nd got nervous then traded back up. I get that kinda reflects how they play on the football field too, they'll stretch teams out between the 20's then they get tighter & tighter the closer they get to the endzone.

Coverage on Texans draft sucked making it more frustrating to get a grip on each selection (network went to commercial seemingly every Texans pick) along with very high, informed expectations from its own fan base, there is probably no way they could have lived up to any of our own mock drafts. Difference between reality & fantasy I guess :ahhaha:

threetoedpete
04-27-2010, 09:35 AM
This was not a great class of corners. Only one went in the top fifteen, four total unless you count Earl Thomas as a CB prospect. Those that went in the first round were the ones drafted by teams with a major need except the Saints. Arguing about which one was better is about as useless as arguing how many angles can dance on the end of a pin. Just be glad I wasn't the GM Thomas or Iupati would of been our pick. If we see Jackson starting the first game against the Colts, I'll be pretty shocked.

wagonhed
04-27-2010, 09:39 AM
I like to look at the CB situation like this.

Pretend the "top 3" CBs in this year's draft were the top 3 LBs in last years draft.

Aaron Curry (Joe Haden) was a lock to go near the top of the draft, and he did. Most Texans fans wanted Clay Matthews (Kyle Wilson), but he ended up falling to late in the 1st. Instead, the Texans drafted Brian Cushing (Kareem Jackson) who wasn't rated as highly by some, surprising the fans, but ultimately getting the DROY.

Obviously if we compare it to last years situation, both LBs taken after Curry ended up being stars, which seems perfectly possible here. But we took Jackson and I no longer care how good Wilson is, as long as Jackson becomes a star for the Texans.

beerlover
04-27-2010, 09:51 AM
I like to look at the CB situation like this.

Pretend the "top 3" CBs in this year's draft were the top 3 LBs in last years draft.

Aaron Curry (Joe Haden) was a lock to go near the top of the draft, and he did. Most Texans fans wanted Clay Matthews (Kyle Wilson), but he ended up falling to late in the 1st. Instead, the Texans drafted Brian Cushing (Kareem Jackson) who wasn't rated as highly by some, surprising the fans, but ultimately getting the DROY.

Obviously if we compare it to last years situation, both LBs taken after Curry ended up being stars, which seems perfectly possible here. But we took Jackson and I no longer care how good Wilson is, as long as Jackson becomes a star for the Texans.

good analogy, that's why its important to give them the benefit of doubt.

badboy
04-27-2010, 09:57 AM
I had Wilson rated as the best available corner and Jackson right behind him on draft day .... They werent seperated by much imo.

But the more I think about it the more I can see why the Texans chose Jackson .... Nick Saban coached DB - He's NFL ready from that standpoint.

As for recovery speed - You have to take into account the level of competition. The SEC is a few steps above the Big Ten in terms of overall talent.

The fact that the Texans had their choice of every CB not named Haden and they took Jackson tells me they got their guy - not just leftovers. I'll give them the benifit of the doubt.Saban is a good coach and the team did pretty well but Boise State's Petersen led the team to 14-0 and 4th place with a team roster of only four seniors

http://www.broncosports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=54307&SPID=4061&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9900&ATCLID=578844&Q_SEASON=2010

2006,2007,2008 and 2009 Boise State led the WAC in total defense and scoring D. Marcel Yates the secondary coach has a good resume after coaching CBs for 3 seasons.http://www.broncosports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=54307&SPID=4061&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9900&ATCLID=536982&Q_SEASON=2010

Most recognize the legendary Alabama but since 2000 Boise records is 111-17 for .867 (best in nation)& 63-2 at home.
Source > http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1034994

You are correct that Texans got their corner, I am hope it was the best one.

WolverineFan
04-27-2010, 09:59 AM
I tend to view the Texans draft similar, productive, keyed on intelligence/character, athletes & played it very safely. they traded down in 2nd got nervous then traded back up. I get that kinda reflects how they play on the football field too, they'll stretch teams out between the 20's then they get tighter & tighter the closer they get to the endzone.

Coverage on Texans draft sucked making it more frustrating to get a grip on each selection (network went to commercial seemingly every Texans pick) along with very high, informed expectations from its own fan base, there is probably no way they could have lived up to any of our own mock drafts. Difference between reality & fantasy I guess :ahhaha:

Watching the draft on TV was painful as a Texans fan. I didn't even know we traded the second time and I don't recall them ever putting up the terms for that trade. Also, Trey Wingo is an *****. He could not get it right during picks. The analysts would be talking during the pick and he'd announce it for the wrong team, etc. Really wish I had NFL Network.

El Tejano
04-27-2010, 10:06 AM
Maybe we're still really high on Troy Nolan

Actually Rick Smith has stated that the team is still very high on Eugene Wilson and feel that Barber is going to come into his own this year. Rick Smith said that Nolan is the guy with the question marks because they can't tell how he's going to recover from the injury until they see him on the field.

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2010, 10:06 AM
Saban is a good coach and the team did pretty well but Boise State's Petersen led the team to 14-0 and 4th place with a team roster of only four seniors

http://www.broncosports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=54307&SPID=4061&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9900&ATCLID=578844&Q_SEASON=2010

2006,2007,2008 and 2009 Boise State led the WAC in total defense and scoring D. Marcel Yates the secondary coach has a good resume after coaching CBs for 3 seasons.http://www.broncosports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=54307&SPID=4061&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9900&ATCLID=536982&Q_SEASON=2010

Most recognize the legendary Alabama but since 2000 Boise records is 111-17 for .867 (best in nation)& 63-2 at home.
Source > http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1034994

You are correct that Texans got their corner, I am hope it was the best one.

What would Boise do in the SEC ? That conference is so much faster than the WAC , it's not funny .

You ever noticed how many players are from the SEC . Now think how battle tested these guys are for the pros . Besides when was the last time an SEC team didn't when the championship ? Miami played the same type of football and was a NFL farm club for years .

El Tejano
04-27-2010, 10:09 AM
Watching the draft on TV was painful as a Texans fan. I didn't even know we traded the second time and I don't recall them ever putting up the terms for that trade. Also, Trey Wingo is an *****. He could not get it right during picks. The analysts would be talking during the pick and he'd announce it for the wrong team, etc. Really wish I had NFL Network.


Don't worry coverage over there wasn't too hot if you were a Texan fan either. Everytime the Texans were about to pick they'd go to commercial and when they came back they'd talk about the previous pick, meanwhile our selection would be posted at the bottom and then the group would start talking about the next teams needs.

The first day of the draft they were irritating me because freaking Jason Lacanfora was announcing the darn pick before the comissioner would even announce the pick. They wanted to have the ground breaking news so bad.

WolverineFan
04-27-2010, 10:13 AM
Don't worry coverage over there wasn't too hot if you were a Texan fan either. Everytime the Texans were about to pick they'd go to commercial and when they came back they'd talk about the previous pick, meanwhile our selection would be posted at the bottom and then the group would start talking about the next teams needs.

The first day of the draft they were irritating me because freaking Jason Lacanfora was announcing the darn pick before the comissioner would even announce the pick. They wanted to have the ground breaking news so bad.

Man the lack of coverage this team gets is just astounding. We get more TV time on other teams' highlight videos than we get for our own team. Ridiculous.

Corrosion
04-27-2010, 10:15 AM
Man the lack of coverage this team gets is just astounding. We get more TV time on other teams' highlight videos than we get for our own team. Ridiculous.

This team hasnt won anything , they arent the "Sexy pick to win anything" either .... Until they WIN they wont get coverage.


Add in the fact that the Chronicle probably has the absolute worst sports coverage of any paper in a major sports market and this is what you get.

Epic Fail

WolverineFan
04-27-2010, 10:17 AM
This team hasnt won anything , they arent the "Sexy pick to win anything" either .... Until they WIN they wont get coverage.


Add in the fact that the Chronicle probably has the absolute worst sports coverage of any paper in a major sports market and this is what you get.

Epic Fail

Lions and Browns haven't won anything either and they get plenty of coverage.

beerlover
04-27-2010, 10:20 AM
1 20 Kareem Jackson CB Alabama
2 58 Ben Tate RB Auburn
3 81 Earl Mitchell DT Arizona
4 102 Darryl Sharpton ILB Miami (Fla.)
4 118 Garrett Graham TE Wisconsin
5 144 Sherrick McManis CB Northwestern
6 187 Shelley Smith OG Colorado State
6 197 Trindon Holliday RS LSU
7 227 Dorin Dickerson TE Pit

BOLD = Stater
RED = ROTATIONAL
SLATE GRAY = PR/INSURANCE IN CASE OF INJURY

Blake
04-27-2010, 10:26 AM
Saban is a good coach and the team did pretty well but Boise State's Petersen led the team to 14-0 and 4th place with a team roster of only four seniors.

Wow understatement of the year. Yeah they just won the SEC Championship on their way to the National championship. I guess they did OK.

beerlover
04-27-2010, 10:27 AM
Lions and Browns haven't won anything either and they get plenty of coverage.

Maybe they had the sexier picks, Texans picks where the least covered. Kareem Jackson never had the run up, he only came out at the last second then flew under the radar during the entire process. Ben Tate has been called the least appreciated RB in this class (sorry don't have the link), Earl who? Shaprton, Graham, McManis, Smith, not excatly household names. Holliday & Dickerson may have a bigger following?

Blake
04-27-2010, 10:27 AM
I like to look at the CB situation like this.

Pretend the "top 3" CBs in this year's draft were the top 3 LBs in last years draft.

Aaron Curry (Joe Haden) was a lock to go near the top of the draft, and he did. Most Texans fans wanted Clay Matthews (Kyle Wilson), but he ended up falling to late in the 1st. Instead, the Texans drafted Brian Cushing (Kareem Jackson) who wasn't rated as highly by some, surprising the fans, but ultimately getting the DROY.

Obviously if we compare it to last years situation, both LBs taken after Curry ended up being stars, which seems perfectly possible here. But we took Jackson and I no longer care how good Wilson is, as long as Jackson becomes a star for the Texans.

Great post to keep things in perspective wagonhead.

El Tejano
04-27-2010, 10:28 AM
1.Texans: Kareem Jackson 5'10 196 4.40 great within 20 yards and better not guess wrong or he will never catch up.
Badboy: Kyle Wilson 5'10" 194 4.43 bump & run and cover guy that can close with a burst.

After seeing the National Championship game again, I saw how much he did in run support but the dude was also literally in Jordan Shipley's pocket. Alot of the over throws Gilbert threw was because he had to in order to keep from Kareem deflecting the ball or intercepting it. Shipley's TDs came when Texas moved him into the slot away from Jackson.

2. Texans: Ben Tate 5'11"220 4.4 ok a strong,fast guy & we get an extra 3rd not knowing we'd give it away immediately. Boy, did that look stupid. Still, 3rd best back on my board.
Badboy: Toby Gerhart 6' 231 4.5s He is sitting right there! Dennison said both were rated even and if we could have gotten Tate and kept the 3rd, brilliant. But we didn't. So much for TG versus Jonathan Dwyer.

I see them as having the same skill set also. Are you more upset that we just didn't take Toby or mad that we traded down, got Tate and then wasted the pick we traded down for?

3.Texans: Earl Mitchell 6'3" 296 &fast. Guess we will see if he can get through the middle. This isn't Barwin speeding in from the outside. If it works, great move! If it doesn't, someone should be taken to the woodshed. Pretty risky for a 3rd.
Badboy: We had Mike Johnson, Rennie Curran (OLB) and Tony Moeaki there.
I really considered the OLB but thought TE bigger need as I don't have medical info on how our vets are doing. My Pick:Moeaki6'3" 245 great receiver, needs to work on blocking. An OD clone if you will.

I had Earl Mitchell as the 35th best player in terms of need and ability to grab him on my draft board. On my draft board he was the 8th best DT for us but only the 4th best available at that time. There's alot of comparison going on on this message board to Amobi but that's only because of size. Motorwise, this kid is ahead of Okoye. I did feel like we could've got this guy in the 4th or later tough and would've loved to taken an OL. I had C Matt Tenant penciled here but as you can see I was way off base because he went to someone in like the 5th round or something.

4.A Sharpton5'11"236 ILB to convert to Will. I really like this guy but not a need position nor BPA.
Badboy: #118 Owusu-Ansah 6'207 4.41 CB/FS/KR This was my FS and back up corner. BTW, Ed Campo of Dallas is saying he is the FS.http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04/24/2140336/dallas-cowboys-draft-pick-from.html
Ansah also averaged 30 yards as a senior on kick returns.

You and I have the same thoughts here. I was like "pick Owusu and be done with DB for good in this draft." They pretty much said that every draft they give Marciano the chance to draft a guy for his ST. I just don't know if I do that with my 3rd rounder though. I guess they figured they could do that when they got the extra pick for trading down? Then they trade away the extra later?
4b. Garrett Graham similar to OD but in my draft we have better TE with Moeaki. I have no 4th as I did not trade.

5. Texans:McManus, I covered above.
Badboy: Rashad Jones 6'1"214 4.51 I was stunned he was here and he had a 3-4 th round range. Can play SS to back Pollard or FS. Fast, hard hitter.

Right here we are thinking the same. At this point Reshad was my best player on my board. Another post on here will show you that I wanted to get him in the 2nd. So that goes to show how much I know where a player can go. Either way, we are talking about a player that could help is in two positions. I did see some info on McManus and they say he can play FS as well and that the dude is a real leader on the football field. The fact they went with a DB kept me from questioning too much.

6a Texans: Shelley Smith a throw away pick that will not beat out any of current OGs.
Badboy: David Gettis WR 6'3" 217 pro day 40 4.39 and does not have to convert from TE. 52 receptions 3 TDs. Big guy in Red Zone who could make one of current WRs obsolete. Had him on one of my earliest mocks. *Note Jonathan Dwyer was still available and I almost went with him as I wanted one more back in TC.
6b Trindon Holliday: I almost fell out of my chair, RMartin65 pick this guy from way back when and we put him on our final mock.
Badboy:To be honest due to his small size I really looked hard for another player but this kid should be great. I hope he keeps his Blue Cross/Blue SHield premium paid up.

7.DD ok but you know who I mean. I am ok with this pick but with Gettis who is better, we could go with my guy.
Badboy: Jeff Owen DT 6'1" 304 4.94 40. 65 and Beerlover researched the heck out of this guy and he is super strong and Pepto's (stops) the runs. We had him as high as 4th and would have been a steal. I'll put him against Mitchell especially comparing where each was selected.

I was expecting to come out today bragging on how the Texans had shut up all the critics with an outstanding draft. That did not happen.

Rating- C that I meritoriously moved up to C+ for Smith accepting RMartin65's telephone call and going with his itty bitty missile, Holliday.


My thoughts in bold. Much props to you for putting who you had selected in that round rather than just saying our draft stinks. Much more to talk about than to reply with "just because they didn't select who you wanted..."

steelbtexan
04-27-2010, 10:29 AM
The Texans scouts had Jackson > Wilson. That's all that matters. I trust them more than MB mockers.

This reminds me of the Cushing>Matthews debate. The Texans scouts did great on that pick. Although Matthews turned out to be a great player too.

I suspect that Jackson will be a day one starter and a great player. Wilson might take a little longer but he will be a great player too.

El Tejano
04-27-2010, 10:31 AM
1 20 Kareem Jackson CB Alabama
2 58 Ben Tate RB Auburn
3 81 Earl Mitchell DT Arizona
4 102 Darryl Sharpton ILB Miami (Fla.)
4 118 Garrett Graham TE Wisconsin
5 144 Sherrick McManis CB Northwestern
6 187 Shelley Smith OG Colorado State
6 197 Trindon Holliday RS LSU
7 227 Dorin Dickerson TE Pit

BOLD = Stater
RED = ROTATIONAL
SLATE GRAY = PR/INSURANCE IN CASE OF INJURY

Don't count Garrett Graham out of beating Joel Dreesen. I consider the #2 TE position a starter since we may run some two TE sets. Graham is an every down type of TE that can both block and catch.

El Tejano
04-27-2010, 10:35 AM
Add in the fact that the Chronicle probably has the absolute worst sports coverage of any paper in a major sports market and this is what you get.

Epic Fail

Honestly, now that you say that, I think that has more to do with it than anything. I don't live in these sates or cities but I know of The Dallas Morning News, Denver Post, New York Times, Chicago Tribune etc... because I hear their names on sports channels all the time saying that they are the ones who reported it.

We can't even get coverage on a freakin practice from the Chronicle.

Blake
04-27-2010, 10:37 AM
Honestly, now that you say that, I think that has more to do with it than anything. I don't live in these sates or cities but I know of The Dallas Morning News, Denver Post, New York Times, Chicago Tribune etc... because I hear their names on sports channels all the time saying that they are the ones who reported it.

We can't even get coverage on a freakin practice from the Chronicle.

John McClain's idea of posting new up to date Texans information is retweeting Adam Schefter. ;P

El Tejano
04-27-2010, 10:39 AM
I found some interesting info just now about where the lineage to drafting Kareem may have come from.

Nick Saban 1988-1989 Secondary Coach Houston Oilers
http://alabama.rivals.com/viewcoach.asp?Year=2009&Sport=1&Coach=1924

Frank Bush
[edit] Houston Oilers
In 1987 Bush was hired by the Oilers to be their college scout and he remained at the position until 1992 when he was promoted to linebackers coach. He served as the teams linebackers coach until 1994.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Bush

Not saying for sure but this had to help tip the scale in Kareem's favor.

beerlover
04-27-2010, 10:39 AM
Don't count Garrett Graham out of beating Joel Dreesen. I consider the #2 TE position a starter since we may run some two TE sets. Graham is an every down type of TE that can both block and catch.

even better, meaning this draft could yield 5 starters?

I must add however that I have mixed feelings about the Graham selection with Owen Daniels remaining unsigned. So that is my problem with the pick not the player himself. I also value Joel Dreessen more, his growth from the time Owen went down to end of season was nothing short of outstanding, displayed intelligence along with ability to play the position in the NFL, consumate team player, excelled even more when not asked to handle the long snapping duties.

Corrosion
04-27-2010, 10:42 AM
John McClain's idea of posting new up to date Texans information is retweeting Adam Schefter. and attaching a picture of Anna Megan to keep the masses interested ;P

Fixed that for you.

El Tejano
04-27-2010, 10:43 AM
even better, meaning this draft could yield 5 starters?

I must add however that I have mixed feelings about the Graham selection with Owen Daniels remaining unsigned. So that is my problem with the pick not the player himself. I also value Joel Dreessen more, his growth from the time Owen went down to end of season was nothing short of outstanding, displayed intelligence along with ability to play the position in the NFL, consumate team player, excelled even more when not asked to handle the long snapping duties.

I don't think we worry about Graham coming here to replace Daniels. Especially when Kubiak said he talked to Daniels about Graham and Daniels had good things to say about him.

ChampionTexan
04-27-2010, 10:46 AM
Add in the fact that the Chronicle probably has the absolute worst sports coverage of any paper in a major sports market and this is what you get.

Epic Fail

Does the Chronicle have anyone besides McClain dedicated to the Texans/NFL Football? They used to have Meghan (Megan?) Manfull, but it's been ages since I've seen anything besides McClain's coverage and the stuff from the columnists - when they decide to write about football.

BigBull17
04-27-2010, 10:47 AM
Watching the draft on TV was painful as a Texans fan. I didn't even know we traded the second time and I don't recall them ever putting up the terms for that trade. Also, Trey Wingo is an *****. He could not get it right during picks. The analysts would be talking during the pick and he'd announce it for the wrong team, etc. Really wish I had NFL Network.

They went to commercial every time we came on the clock. EVERY SINGLE TIME! Weird.

leebigeztx
04-27-2010, 10:47 AM
The thing is, you can never have enough good football players. I didn't get the cahnce to watch all the tapes of games as i did the past because of a 4 month old baby, but i still had a chance to do my research for the most part. I had Wilson and Jackson as the top 2 with haden as the 3rd corner and all 3 in the top 20. I had tate rated above gerhardt also. Dickerson should've been in round 2 anyway you slice it and he fell to the 7th rd. The lsu kid was a speciality pick and in the nfl, there are alot of those guy. If he can replace davis and add more in the return game so be it. The people having problems with the te's and the lb must don't value special teams. Special teams with the new rules are made for lb's and te's now. As stated earlier, i guess we will see in 3 yrs or so.

WolverineFan
04-27-2010, 10:48 AM
1 20 Kareem Jackson CB Alabama
2 58 Ben Tate RB Auburn
3 81 Earl Mitchell DT Arizona
4 102 Darryl Sharpton ILB Miami (Fla.)
4 118 Garrett Graham TE Wisconsin
5 144 Sherrick McManis CB Northwestern
6 187 Shelley Smith OG Colorado State
6 197 Trindon Holliday RS LSU
7 227 Dorin Dickerson TE Pit

BOLD = Stater
RED = ROTATIONAL
SLATE GRAY = PR/INSURANCE IN CASE OF INJURY

Where exactly do you see Sharpton starting? WLB? I see no way he beats out Diles as a rookie.

I think Jackson starts and Tate is technically a starter. Platoon 1 of Tate and Slaton and platoon 2 of Foster and Moats.

Mitchell won't start, but will be in the rotation. It's not really important who starts at DT if you have 4 or 5 reliable guys in the rotation.

Sharpton will get special teams work but I don't see him starting as a rookie.

Graham won't start this year I don't think, but he'll have Dressen's job by next year.

McManis is depth and special teams.

Smith is depth.

Holliday will be the main return guy so technically a starter.

Dickerson probably won't play this year since he is transitioning to a new position. Will probably get looks on special teams though.

beerlover
04-27-2010, 10:48 AM
I don't think we worry about Graham coming here to replace Daniels. Especially when Kubiak said he talked to Daniels about Graham and Daniels had good things to say about him.

not so sure about that as Owens if resigned does have trade value.

WolverineFan
04-27-2010, 10:49 AM
They went to commercial every time we came on the clock. EVERY SINGLE TIME! Weird.

Well our coverage sucked all the way around then. No biggie, I'm used to it by now.

The only time we ever got coverage during the draft was when we took Mario and we had the nation bringing the hammer down on us then.

TimeKiller
04-27-2010, 10:59 AM
I'm disappointed. I won't lie.

KJ is already slated to start and I wouldn't blink twice if Tate was the starting RB when the regular season begins. That's two damn fine picks in areas of critical need. Holliday should provide a spark, allow JJ to concentrate on WR and make A Davis expendable. Good pick for a 6th. Dickerson looks like a sweet project for a 7th, certainly more exciting than Alex Brink.

Everything between the first and last two picks makes me hurt. How FS is not one of the top 9 needs of this team....I'll just never understand. How another non-massive human being, gap shooter DT is above FS depth...how special teamer/backup LB is above FS....how a 5th at best corner is above FS...how a 6th TE or 7th OG....

BigBull17
04-27-2010, 11:02 AM
Well our coverage sucked all the way around then. No biggie, I'm used to it by now.

The only time we ever got coverage during the draft was when we took Mario and we had the nation bringing the hammer down on us then.

The only thing worse was John McClains attitude towards the Ben Tate pick because Gerharts papa was an ex Oiler and he had interviews lined up. He wagged his finger and said huaranteed Gerhart, and got mad when he was wrong. That's why he and Dickie J hate the Texans.

Vinnie
04-27-2010, 11:03 AM
not so sure about that as Owens if resigned does have trade value.

Come on man you're better then that! Makes you sound like a Chronicle article response poster.

Corrosion
04-27-2010, 11:07 AM
Saban is a good coach and the team did pretty well but Boise State's Petersen led the team to 14-0 and 4th place with a team roster of only four seniors

http://www.broncosports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=54307&SPID=4061&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9900&ATCLID=578844&Q_SEASON=2010

2006,2007,2008 and 2009 Boise State led the WAC in total defense and scoring D. Marcel Yates the secondary coach has a good resume after coaching CBs for 3 seasons.http://www.broncosports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=54307&SPID=4061&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9900&ATCLID=536982&Q_SEASON=2010

Most recognize the legendary Alabama but since 2000 Boise records is 111-17 for .867 (best in nation)& 63-2 at home.
Source > http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1034994

You are correct that Texans got their corner, I am hope it was the best one.

For the record Im not saying Jackson is the better corner - just that its easy to see how the Texans justified the pick over Wilson who we both had as at least the #2 CB.


Well our coverage sucked all the way around then. No biggie, I'm used to it by now.

The only time we ever got coverage during the draft was when we took Mario and we had the nation bringing the hammer down on us then.

yeah and how did that turn out ?!

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2010, 11:18 AM
For the record Im not saying Jackson is the better corner - just that its easy to see how the Texans justified the pick over Wilson who we both had as at least the #2 CB.




yeah and how did that turn out ?!

Here's what's going to happen . Wilson is going to be thrown into the fire ... why ... cause their not going to throw to the other side . When Wilson plays like a rookie getting thrown at , folks will go man I'm glad we drafted Jackson .

Corrosion
04-27-2010, 11:24 AM
Here's what's going to happen . Wilson is going to be thrown into the fire ... why ... cause their not going to throw to the other side . When Wilson plays like a rookie getting thrown at , folks will go man I'm glad we drafted Jackson .

With Antonio Cromartie and Darrelle Revis on that roster he may not even start - He'll likely be the nickle.

Think they had Pey_Me_A_Ton in mind when they made that pick ?

badboy
04-27-2010, 11:43 AM
You say that you realize you've been wrong on multiple occasions, yet you keep making blanket statements that have no proof or foundation like:

"Jackson is not a cover guy"
"Only Texans had him [Jackson] rated higher than Wilson or McCourty"
"Shelley Smith a throw away pick that will not beat out any of current OGs"
"[Gettis] in Red Zone who could make one of current WRs obsolete"

You seem to have the ability to read the future if you KNOW that Smith isn't going to beat out any of the other guards, and that this Gettis guy would have for sure beaten out Kevin Walter or JJ (We got the TE/WR, who you also claimed "isn't as good" with 100% certainty).

I'm not sure how you can say all these things without having seen these players on the field for the Texans.People all over the nation are taking sides on whether Tebow will or will not be an NFL QB. None "know" either way but they do discuss their opinions based on info they have access to. That is all I do. Never compared myself to any draftologist or claim to have "the" answer. The purpose of this forum is to express our thoughts and opinions and that is what I do. Like you.

Jackson links supporting either my comment or my draft grade.
"Jackson a reach #20". Draft grade D+ http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/sports/2010-nfl-draft-grades-1.1428615
Jackson a 2nd but could "sneak into 1st"http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=2411

ALso, Agility/Hips: Doesn't have the best agility and looks to be a little stiff in his hips. Change-of-direction ability is lacking. Can be beaten by smaller, shiftier receivers fairly easily. Lack of hip fluidity hurts him when he transitions out of his breaks.

Ball Skills: Hands are below average. But Jackson can do just about everything else asked in this area. He makes a lot of plays on the ball and is good at breaking up a catch. Finished his three-year career with 29 pass breakups and five interceptions.

Instincts/Recognition: Jackson could improve here a good deal. Too often he got burned on double moves to the outside. Because of his lack of great agility, he can be beat on comeback routes and needs to sharpen up his instincts to know when that route may be called. Quickly diagnoses run plays.

Man coverage: Played a lot of bump and run coverage for Alabama. Knows how to properly use his hands to jam at the line. When he can stick with a receiver, he's aggressive and can re-direct routes. Needs to smooth out his backpedal. Jackson's feet will get choppy, which causes him to lose receivers deep.






Pursuit: Lacks great speed, which is detrimental to his deep pursuit. Has good enough short-area burst to close when the ball carrier in nearby.

Size: Has a solid size and build for the position. Arms are a little shorter than ideal. Fame is solidly built and he might not be able to add a lot of bulk.

Speed: Straight-line speed is solid but not spectacular. Has trouble sticking with shiftier receivers. Uses his physical skills to make up for a lack of speed.

Tackling/Run Support: More of a leg tackler, but does show he has the skills to wrap up and drag down. Plays stronger than he probably is. Struggles to shed blockers to help support in run coverage. Tries to be too flashy instead of being sound.

Zone coverage: Although Jackson was used in man coverage a lot, he may be better as a zone cornerback. Jackson's anticipation skills are very good and he reads the opposing quarterback really well. Locates the ball quickly once it's in the air. Uses his physicality nicely in zone to move the receiver to make a play on the ball.

Final word: Jackson benefited greatly from playing in Nick Saban's NFL-style defense. He played a lot of man on his side, but has the skill to handle zone.

Jackson's size isn't all that great, but he is a physical cornerback. That helps him make up for a lack of agility and speed.
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badboy
04-27-2010, 12:14 PM
You say that you realize you've been wrong on multiple occasions, yet you keep making blanket statements that have no proof or foundation like:

"Jackson is not a cover guy"
"Only Texans had him [Jackson] rated higher than Wilson or McCourty"
"Shelley Smith a throw away pick that will not beat out any of current OGs"
"[Gettis] in Red Zone who could make one of current WRs obsolete"

You seem to have the ability to read the future if you KNOW that Smith isn't going to beat out any of the other guards, and that this Gettis guy would have for sure beaten out Kevin Walter or JJ (We got the TE/WR, who you also claimed "isn't as good" with 100% certainty).
I'm not sure how you can say all these things without having seen these players on the field for the Texans.Where did you get the idea that I said Gettis would beat out Kevin Walter or JJ? The comment I made about Walter was that he was not my guy when he came to Texans & I admitted to being wrong about him. I stated that Gettis could beat out one of our current WRs. Others have posted on other threads that Davis may be on the outside looking in.

badboy
04-27-2010, 12:28 PM
You do realize that both Jackson and McCourty went before Wilson don't you? The Patriots took McCourty with the 27th pick and the Jets took Wilson at 29th overall. So at a minimum at least two teams had Wilson ranked lower on their boards.We do not know if NE had Jackson over McCourty, just McCourty over Wilson.

Goldensilence
04-27-2010, 12:36 PM
Where exactly do you see Sharpton starting? WLB? I see no way he beats out Diles as a rookie.

I think Jackson starts and Tate is technically a starter. Platoon 1 of Tate and Slaton and platoon 2 of Foster and Moats.

Mitchell won't start, but will be in the rotation. It's not really important who starts at DT if you have 4 or 5 reliable guys in the rotation.

Sharpton will get special teams work but I don't see him starting as a rookie.

Graham won't start this year I don't think, but he'll have Dressen's job by next year.

McManis is depth and special teams.

Smith is depth.

Holliday will be the main return guy so technically a starter.

Dickerson probably won't play this year since he is transitioning to a new position. Will probably get looks on special teams though.

Agree don't see how you can get 4 starters out of the draft.

I think some people are selling themselves on some of the more questionable picks.

With Antonio Cromartie and Darrelle Revis on that roster he may not even start - He'll likely be the nickle.

Think they had Pey_Me_A_Ton in mind when they made that pick ?

Where they picked and what they did to improve themselves in the off-season the Jets didn't have any real glaring needs IMO. They just took the BPA and it might also be an indictment that they are prepared in case Cromartie doesn't work out.

beerlover
04-27-2010, 12:45 PM
interesting in the way we all have "our guys" but once the draft is over I'm all about the players who actually where drafted by the Texans first & foremost. The Texans scouts are paid to gather information. The coaches are the ones who have more influence while Rick Smith is the moderator/bargineer. I'm sure several scouts where disapointed they didn't get their guy either? Frank Bush along with David Gibbs had to be all on board with Kareem, if thats the case then so am I. I get the feeling Ben Tate was Kubiaks guy, as he has been gushing all over him so likewise if thats the case I'm all in. Really think Dennison had a steadying hand in all the offensive picks so thats a real plus too. one of the hardest things in the world is to get inside other peoples heads & figure what they're thinking.

breaking it down it went pretty much as we projected so its not as bad as it seems.

CB in the first was the consensus pick, regardless the prospect.
RB in second was something expected as well (beat them repeatedly for not taking Shonn Greene last year, tradind up or down to take him).
DT in the third was right where they needed to go to get an impact player, regardless if it was Mitchell or not.
TE was a bit of a surprise, but have no problem at all after last season because of injury & importance to offensive scheme.
LB I could have taken one earlier, thought about Sharpton myself but was thinking more of a pure OLB like Darly Washington, so excellent value if he can convert to WILL.
CB in 5th another value pick/slot deemed appropriate to find the skill set/measureables to actually make an NFL roster.
OG/C & return specialist in the 6th rd. dead on as well as who they selected.
WR in 7th yes, great fit best value on the board.

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2010, 12:51 PM
With Antonio Cromartie and Darrelle Revis on that roster he may not even start - He'll likely be the nickle.

Think they had Pey_Me_A_Ton in mind when they made that pick ?

Or that Cromartie will be in court a bunch for child support .

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2010, 12:55 PM
People all over the nation are taking sides on whether Tebow will or will not be an NFL QB. None "know" either way but they do discuss their opinions based on info they have access to. That is all I do. Never compared myself to any draftologist or claim to have "the" answer. The purpose of this forum is to express our thoughts and opinions and that is what I do. Like you.

Jackson links supporting either my comment or my draft grade.
"Jackson a reach #20". Draft grade D+ http://www.hofstrachronicle.com/sports/2010-nfl-draft-grades-1.1428615
Jackson a 2nd but could "sneak into 1st"http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=2411

ALso, Agility/Hips: Doesn't have the best agility and looks to be a little stiff in his hips. Change-of-direction ability is lacking. Can be beaten by smaller, shiftier receivers fairly easily. Lack of hip fluidity hurts him when he transitions out of his breaks.

Ball Skills: Hands are below average. But Jackson can do just about everything else asked in this area. He makes a lot of plays on the ball and is good at breaking up a catch. Finished his three-year career with 29 pass breakups and five interceptions.

Instincts/Recognition: Jackson could improve here a good deal. Too often he got burned on double moves to the outside. Because of his lack of great agility, he can be beat on comeback routes and needs to sharpen up his instincts to know when that route may be called. Quickly diagnoses run plays.

Man coverage: Played a lot of bump and run coverage for Alabama. Knows how to properly use his hands to jam at the line. When he can stick with a receiver, he's aggressive and can re-direct routes. Needs to smooth out his backpedal. Jackson's feet will get choppy, which causes him to lose receivers deep.






Pursuit: Lacks great speed, which is detrimental to his deep pursuit. Has good enough short-area burst to close when the ball carrier in nearby.

Size: Has a solid size and build for the position. Arms are a little shorter than ideal. Fame is solidly built and he might not be able to add a lot of bulk.

Speed: Straight-line speed is solid but not spectacular. Has trouble sticking with shiftier receivers. Uses his physical skills to make up for a lack of speed.

Tackling/Run Support: More of a leg tackler, but does show he has the skills to wrap up and drag down. Plays stronger than he probably is. Struggles to shed blockers to help support in run coverage. Tries to be too flashy instead of being sound.

Zone coverage: Although Jackson was used in man coverage a lot, he may be better as a zone cornerback. Jackson's anticipation skills are very good and he reads the opposing quarterback really well. Locates the ball quickly once it's in the air. Uses his physicality nicely in zone to move the receiver to make a play on the ball.

Final word: Jackson benefited greatly from playing in Nick Saban's NFL-style defense. He played a lot of man on his side, but has the skill to handle zone.

Jackson's size isn't all that great, but he is a physical cornerback. That helps him make up for a lack of agility and speed.
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So ... if Jackson goes back to school and Bama repeats with Jackson having another solid year ... where's Jackson drafted . Also is he then considered a better prospect than the best corner of 2010 ?

Did you watch Jackson do his drills ? He was as quick as anyone in turning and such .

badboy
04-27-2010, 01:11 PM
Many people believe that Tate is better in our system than Gerhart would've been. I'd say a majority of people probably believe that Tate is the better back in our system.
I don't know how anyone could even remotely think the Texans "looked stupid" by way of the trades they made.

Tate + extra 4th + improving 5th round position by 6 spots > Gerhart all day, every day.
Except for someone who is bitter because the team didn't make the pick that they wanted, which is kinda how you're coming across, IMO.

Personnaly, I would have taken Tate over Gerhart straight up, but the extra 4th, and moving up in the 5th make it an absolute no-brainer in my book.A lot of pre-draft comments on Gerhart was that he could not do well in our system and that is just not true; even Smith acknowledged TG and Tate were rated similarly and the draft room was divided.

The Pencil Neck
04-27-2010, 01:18 PM
Here's what's going to happen . Wilson is going to be thrown into the fire ... why ... cause their not going to throw to the other side . When Wilson plays like a rookie getting thrown at , folks will go man I'm glad we drafted Jackson .

You're expecting him to beat out Cromartie?

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2010, 01:23 PM
You're expecting him to beat out Cromartie?

I don't think Cromartie can find a babysitter every week .

badboy
04-27-2010, 01:23 PM
Quickly. Good evaluation/explanation on your take between Wilson and Jackson. Prior to the draft I was more high on Wilson as well, but I can live with Jackson.

On a side note as history has proven itself we don't NEED a big load at RB to punch the ball in the goal line or get the tough yards. NFL is ripe wwith smaller guys who had a nose for the endzone like Emmitt Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson. Marcus Allen, Warrick Dunn, etc.

Some people seemed obsessed or locked onto the idea there needs to be symmetry with your backs ie one smaller burner and one big load guy. I don't think this NEEDS to be the case. We just need two productive backs regardless of size. NFL is also ripe with big body running backs who can't move a pile like Dayne, Wells, Etc.



Fo must really be banking on Smith coming in and making a difference. I have hopes he does as well, just not totally sold on the idea. Petrus would've made an excellent fit here IMO. Faneca has played his entire career at guard far as I know. If we do get Faneca I have hopes we move Smith to RG and Try Caldwell back at Center.

I could live with a line that looks like Brown- Faneca- Caldwell- Smith- Winston.

As for Robert Johnson he would've been available with our 5th rounder instead we took McMannis.GS, you & others have pointed out the big back vs small back history which I agree with; but, if you look at Texans history our smaller backs have not scored from the Red Zone. We have not done so well with larger backs either but that may be because of where they were healthwise and careerwise. I am extremely hopeful that Tate will be able to pound for TDs. I am just concerned his strong point will be the quick burst up the middle of the line before we get to Red Zone.

leebigeztx
04-27-2010, 01:33 PM
GS, you & others have pointed out the big back vs small back history which I agree with; but, if you look at Texans history our smaller backs have not scored from the Red Zone. We have not done so well with larger backs either but that may be because of where they were healthwise and careerwise. I am extremely hopeful that Tate will be able to pound for TDs. I am just concerned his strong point will be the quick burst up the middle of the line before we get to Red Zone.

I respect a man who stands up for what he thinks even if i don't agree. I'm still trying to see what game tapes you watched that says toby is a better prospect or wilson is a better prospect than jackson and tate. Earlier, you quoted the hofstra news as reasons why this is true, yet there are many that had it the other way around. I'm all for bashing or being critical when a bad move is made. Personally, i don't agree with the over 30 thing they have going, but its their thing.

badboy
04-27-2010, 02:08 PM
This is the basic sentiment I've adopted over the years. Unless I've been following a specific player closely for a couple of years and know they're a dud, I'm not going to bash the selection until I see them play for our team. I prefer to be optimistic and figure our F.O. has a better idea of what they need than I do. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be discussion, if you've been watching Sherrick McManis get burned up in Evanston then by all means do share.

It's just very difficult, IMO, to call out some of these mid to later round guys as being poor selections based on highlight videos, stat lines, and combine measurables. For example, just looking at the last couple years, I was pretty disappointed when I saw we'd selected Glover Quin last year. I'd never heard his name before and he was smallish, had average speed, and wasn't exactly coming from a football power house. Then he hits the field for us and impresses from mini camps forward. On the other hand you have a guy like Xavier Adibi, a name I'd seen, with impressive numbers, production, and pedigree from Va. Tech. I was a fan of the pick for the above reasons, but he hasn't worked out thus far.

Some of you have obviously done a lot more homework on these guys than I have, but where I'm sitting I prefer to get excited about this draft and about seeing what they're going to do on the field.Fox this is a great post as it is an example of how we can see things differently. I bolded your comments on Quin and then refer to Texans roster showing him to be 6' and 203 lbs http://www.houstontexans.com/team/Roster.asp

4.5 speed http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/glover-quin?id=71441

badboy
04-27-2010, 02:16 PM
Great work badboy. I wish I could rep you for it.

I really cannot find fault with anything you have going there. Moeki I would not take there, but we took a TE anyway, so there is not much of a difference there.

I am not a Jones fan. He is strictly a SS in my opinion, and would not contribute to the team. I dont think Jones would be anything more than Pollard's backup and a special teams player. Then again, maybe that would not be terrible.

You are one of the first people to dislike Smith. Admittedly, he was not the guy either of us had targeted, but from the little I watched and have read about him he sounds good. Athletic and mean, something the Texans could use. I would have liked to see the spot addressed earlier though.

Jeff Owens!! I was hoping for him so much there in the 7th. Strong, yet still quick. Oh well. Dickerson sounds pretty promising, I would be willing to give this one to the front office here.

Ha, Trindon Holliday. We nailed that pick on the 2nd mock draft. I hope he makes me proud this season, I have my reputation at stake now.Let me clarify my view on Shelley Smith OG which I should have done in initial thread. I like his skill sets but do not see him making the roster barring injuries above him. He sounds like Studdard but who does he beat out? I would have used that pick elsewhere.

RJones is not much of a FS but better than the guy we drafted to play FS. Oh,snap, we didn't! Yeah I have him as a SS but at least he fill the image of the #1 & #2 safety we went with prior to last season.

Dickerson is interesting and might make team. I just like Gettis better and you probably remember me mentioning him prior to draft. A Baylor guy that I had along with JD Walton C/OG.

badboy
04-27-2010, 02:21 PM
I think most of us had the positions of need right ....

I think the running game and specifically the interior OL has to be evaluated on what a high draft choice in Tate does behind it rather than what Chris Brown and Co did behind them last season (I dont think Slaton was right physically from the get go) before we can really evaluate them.
Many(Most) of us believe that Myers needs to be upgraded along with at least one of the OG spots. By waiting until the 6th round to address the interior OL they give me the idea they were happy with those players performance at least to the extent that they couldnt upgrade them from round 4 on with players who would make an impact or had a chance to take someone's job.
The lack of attention to FS just boggles my mind tho with only Barber , Nolan , Wilson and Pollard on the roster.As Reeves did ok last season, any chance we will see Reves and Jackson at the corners and Quin @ FS? Or is Wilson still a better safety than Quin? Hard for me to eval as Quin has not played at safety in pros.

rmartin65
04-27-2010, 02:29 PM
Let me clarify my view on Shelley Smith OG which I should have done in initial thread. I like his skill sets but do not see him making the roster barring injuries above him. He sounds like Studdard but who does he beat out? I would have used that pick elsewhere.

RJones is not much of a FS but better than the guy we drafted to play FS. Oh,snap, we didn't! Yeah I have him as a SS but at least he fill the image of the #1 & #2 safety we went with prior to last season.

Dickerson is interesting and might make team. I just like Gettis better and you probably remember me mentioning him prior to draft. A Baylor guy that I had along with JD Walton C/OG.

Smith gives depth, but he could possibly earn a starting job down the line. The way I look at it, no one we would have picked there would start this season. Picking a guy that fits the Texans system seems ok to me.

Ha ha, good point. But if Wilson stays healthy, and Nolan progresses, that spot should be ok. Not 100% though, so I am not really busting you over this one.
- by the way, I know it is early, but next year's class has 2 FSs I am targeting in the first.

I remember Gettis. Taller than Dickerson, but lighter and not as strong. More polished receiver, but (In my opinion) a lower ceiling. I am actually pretty excited about Dickerson, he should be a fun player to watchin the pre-season.

badboy
04-27-2010, 02:33 PM
Scouts, Inc. had Jackson as the #2 CB in the draft, and the #19 pick in their top 100.And Lance Zerline had him rated #4 http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/

badboy
04-27-2010, 02:37 PM
If you want to hear about real foorball and real opinions, get sirius and listen to those guys. As texans chick have said, on most scouts boards, jackson was the 19th rated prospect and #2 corner. He can come in and play and start right now either as a boundry or slot guy. In regards to taylor mays, I like the guy and maybe he will be a good player, but teams will iso him because he has slow hips. The guy has no flexibility to turn in transition and run without losing speed. I'm not saying the texans shouldn't have drafted him, but you're basically committing to single high with him.Did not need that type CB. Wanted one that could mirror a WR past 20 yards on a deep pass. We will see if Jackson can do that.

badboy
04-27-2010, 02:42 PM
Watching the draft on TV was painful as a Texans fan. I didn't even know we traded the second time and I don't recall them ever putting up the terms for that trade. Also, Trey Wingo is an *****. He could not get it right during picks. The analysts would be talking during the pick and he'd announce it for the wrong team, etc. Really wish I had NFL Network.I was flipping between ESPN and NFL Total Access but got trade details on 610 radio.

badboy
04-27-2010, 03:01 PM
1 20 Kareem Jackson CB Alabama
2 58 Ben Tate RB Auburn
3 81 Earl Mitchell DT Arizona
4 102 Darryl Sharpton ILB Miami (Fla.)
4 118 Garrett Graham TE Wisconsin
5 144 Sherrick McManis CB Northwestern
6 187 Shelley Smith OG Colorado State
6 197 Trindon Holliday RS LSU
7 227 Dorin Dickerson TE Pit

BOLD = Stater
RED = ROTATIONAL
SLATE GRAY = PR/INSURANCE IN CASE OF INJURYYou think SHarpton will beat out Diles? I like Sharpton but will not go that far at least to I see him on the field.

badboy
04-27-2010, 03:04 PM
Wow understatement of the year. Yeah they just won the SEC Championship on their way to the National championship. I guess they did OK.Surprised that you did not catch the sarcasm. It seems the biggest thing Jackson had going was his coach and school record from what people were saying. My point was Wilson had a very similar arguement. Before anybody starts screaming, I would take Saban and Alabama.

badboy
04-27-2010, 03:13 PM
My thoughts in bold. Much props to you for putting who you had selected in that round rather than just saying our draft stinks. Much more to talk about than to reply with "just because they didn't select who you wanted..."El Tejano, I actually think Gerhart was the best RB for our team. He consistently stacked up huge yards and avg per carry for his college career. He was not just "my guy" but Heisman runner up so quite a few nation wide liked him. TG filled the move the pile, get the short yardage first down and keep the ofeense off the field and then score from within the ten yards of goal line than any back. I heard and read people talking about how many yards Mathews got and I'd think did they even watch Toby?

I actually will be focusing on our 2nd CB pick the most in TC.

badboy
04-27-2010, 03:17 PM
Honestly, now that you say that, I think that has more to do with it than anything. I don't live in these sates or cities but I know of The Dallas Morning News, Denver Post, New York Times, Chicago Tribune etc... because I hear their names on sports channels all the time saying that they are the ones who reported it.

We can't even get coverage on a freakin practice from the Chronicle.In Houston the media person who seems to get most sports breaking news is Mark Berman Fox local station.

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2010, 03:17 PM
Surprised that you did not catch the sarcasm. It seems the biggest thing Jackson had going was his coach and school record from what people were saying. My point was Wilson had a very similar arguement. Before anybody starts screaming, I would take Saban and Alabama.

You do realize that the biggest knock on Jackson , going into the combine , was his speed . Do you know what he ran the 40 in ?

That's why he moved up the boards because he answered the scouts main question against him . He was considered the CB with the least amount of risk and he's ready now .

Corrosion
04-27-2010, 03:19 PM
As Reeves did ok last season, any chance we will see Reves and Jackson at the corners and Quin @ FS? Or is Wilson still a better safety than Quin? Hard for me to eval as Quin has not played at safety in pros.

Kubiak and Bush like Quin @ CB. He was the best CB on the team last year.

If Jackson can give them what D-Rob did last season thats a step in the right direction .... But Im expecting more after watching tape of the guy. He's much better in close space with a WR than D-Rob who is better playing with a soft cushion and coming back to the ball/reciever to make a play. We shouldnt see him giving up a 12 yard cushion when its 3rd and 7 ..... Ugh.

The question I have is now that there is a seasons worth of tape on Quin will teams be able to identify and exploit any weakness in his game.

I see Quin and Jackson starting with Reeves as the nickle back. I dont know who the dime CB will end up being - McCain , Molden , Bennett , Parson or if they all make the roster. Seems like a lot of CB's to me. One of them will likely end up on the PS (Probably Parson).

Jackie Chiles
04-27-2010, 03:33 PM
The question I have is now that there is a seasons worth of tape on Quin will teams be able to identify and exploit any weakness in his game.

In all likelihood the answer is yes but with Glover I am not overly concerned about it. The guy strikes me as a real grinder and I believe he will put in the work and make the necessary adjustments. I expect his game to improve.

badboy
04-27-2010, 03:36 PM
Don't count Garrett Graham out of beating Joel Dreesen. I consider the #2 TE position a starter since we may run some two TE sets. Graham is an every down type of TE that can both block and catch.Interesting as links do not support that. I hope you are right and they are wrong.
http://www.footballfanspot.com/garrettgrahamscout.htm
http://draftnasty.com/index.php?cID=1058
http://philly.stats.com/nfldraft/players.asp?id=132281

badboy
04-27-2010, 03:38 PM
even better, meaning this draft could yield 5 starters?

I must add however that I have mixed feelings about the Graham selection with Owen Daniels remaining unsigned. So that is my problem with the pick not the player himself. I also value Joel Dreessen more, his growth from the time Owen went down to end of season was nothing short of outstanding, displayed intelligence along with ability to play the position in the NFL, consumate team player, excelled even more when not asked to handle the long snapping duties.
Agreed!

badboy
04-27-2010, 03:39 PM
Does the Chronicle have anyone besides McClain dedicated to the Texans/NFL Football? They used to have Meghan (Megan?) Manfull, but it's been ages since I've seen anything besides McClain's coverage and the stuff from the columnists - when they decide to write about football.A few years ago they had a guy named Moishe something I think but he lasted on Texans beat only one year.

badboy
04-27-2010, 03:53 PM
Here's what's going to happen . Wilson is going to be thrown into the fire ... why ... cause their not going to throw to the other side . When Wilson plays like a rookie getting thrown at , folks will go man I'm glad we drafted Jackson .You are saying that Jackson will not get thrown at?:barman: I'll have a drink on your tab.

El Tejano
04-27-2010, 03:58 PM
El Tejano, I actually think Gerhart was the best RB for our team. He consistently stacked up huge yards and avg per carry for his college career. He was not just "my guy" but Heisman runner up so quite a few nation wide liked him. TG filled the move the pile, get the short yardage first down and keep the ofeense off the field and then score from within the ten yards of goal line than any back. I heard and read people talking about how many yards Mathews got and I'd think did they even watch Toby?

I actually will be focusing on our 2nd CB pick the most in TC.

I only saw a couple of games of TG. Yes he got alot of yards but he also got stacked up alot on goal to go chances and 3rd and 1s by guys smaller than him. I thought that he hasn't gotten popped good enough yet to see what he could do after he took a hit and if he would keep playing at that level. Ben Tate showed me those things and i think that is why I like him more but TG was right behind him.

I was there when we drafted thinking "Ben Tate or Toby Gerhart, Ben Tate or Toby Gerhart".

HoustonFrog
04-27-2010, 04:03 PM
You do realize that the biggest knock on Jackson , going into the combine , was his speed . Do you know what he ran the 40 in ?

That's why he moved up the boards because he answered the scouts main question against him . He was considered the CB with the least amount of risk and he's ready now .

I heard he was rated anywhere from 2nd best to 4th or below. I also heard Wilson was just as ready but they each had different strengths. The one plus for Jackson was actually a knock for me. Yeah he played big time SEC ball under Saban but how many great or even good throwing QBs did they face in the SEC?Wilson faced some top QBs if I remember correctly. I think each will be fine but I don't think Jackson was automatically the best choice or the mosr prepared to play.

Corrosion
04-27-2010, 04:04 PM
You are saying that Jackson will not get thrown at?:barman: I'll have a drink on your tab.

He's saying Wilson will be because of who is on the other side of the field .... Revis

badboy
04-27-2010, 04:05 PM
Smith gives depth, but he could possibly earn a starting job down the line. The way I look at it, no one we would have picked there would start this season. Picking a guy that fits the Texans system seems ok to me.

Ha ha, good point. But if Wilson stays healthy, and Nolan progresses, that spot should be ok. Not 100% though, so I am not really busting you over this one.
- by the way, I know it is early, but next year's class has 2 FSs I am targeting in the first.

I remember Gettis. Taller than Dickerson, but lighter and not as strong. More polished receiver, but (In my opinion) a lower ceiling. I am actually pretty excited about Dickerson, he should be a fun player to watchin the pre-season.I don't think makes the team but I am hopeful you are correct that he might be a starter sometime. Marshall Newhouse was still on the board at this pick.

Eugene Wilson remains healthy--didn't we have a thread or two about another starter showing he could remain on the field? Schaub, I think? Yep, if E.W. or "ew" remains on field for 14 of 16 HOORAY! and then this draft gets a higher grade. I will wait on that for a bit.

badboy
04-27-2010, 04:10 PM
You do realize that the biggest knock on Jackson , going into the combine , was his speed . Do you know what he ran the 40 in ?

That's why he moved up the boards because he answered the scouts main question against him . He was considered the CB with the least amount of risk and he's ready now .Exactly but as I've posted in this thread, his 40 was not my hang up but how he recovered from being out of position which happens to most CBs. Also, I see him as a CB moving up to jam the WR or attack the run and getting an A+ if he keeps the WR next to him for 15- 20 yards. That is what Kubiak wanted and what he got. I wanted a different type CB. Never said I was smarter just voicing my opinion.

badboy
04-27-2010, 04:14 PM
He's saying Wilson will be because of who is on the other side of the field .... Revis
Yeah but we got Quin! Yep, that's my boy yep. :kingkong:

Dutchrudder
04-27-2010, 04:22 PM
He's saying Wilson will be because of who is on the other side of the field .... Revis

That makes me think that Wilson will have bad numbers this year because he will be targeted so much. I'm sure he's going to become a good corner eventually, I just don't think he will be able to cover Kevin Walter in his rookie season :)

texasguy346
04-27-2010, 04:31 PM
We do not know if NE had Jackson over McCourty, just McCourty over Wilson.

We know for a fact that two separate scouting departments for NFL teams had Wilson rated lower as a corner. Two NFL teams who have a much better idea of what player fits their particular defensive scheme. It's really not even that hard to imagine the Patriots having Jackson rated higher. He was coached by Saban who worked under Bellicheck and BB has certainly shown an affinity for players developed by his former coaches. Not to mention they traded out of 22 after Jackson was gone. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that he was rated higher on the Patriots board, but the simple fact that two NFL teams passed on Wilson (one of which has a pretty solid drafting record) seems to indicate that perhaps your rankings weren't as accurate as you hoped they would be. Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I'd rather see how these guys perform on the field for the Texans before lambasting a pick or the scouting department.

HOU-TEX
04-27-2010, 04:41 PM
We know for a fact that two separate scouting departments for NFL teams had Wilson rated lower as a corner. Two NFL teams who have a much better idea of what player fits their particular defensive scheme. It's really not even that hard to imagine the Patriots having Jackson rated higher. He was coached by Saban who worked under Bellicheck and BB has certainly shown an affinity for players developed by his former coaches. Not to mention they traded out of 22 after Jackson was gone. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that he was rated higher on the Patriots board, but the simple fact that two NFL teams passed on Wilson (one of which has a pretty solid drafting record) seems to indicate that perhaps your rankings weren't as accurate as you hoped they would be. Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I'd rather see how these guys perform on the field for the Texans before lambasting a pick or the scouting department.

If you are I suppose I am too, cuz I feel exactly the same as you.

Big Poundcake
04-27-2010, 04:42 PM
I liked the Texans draft.

There were a couple of picks that made me go (???), but I'm not an NFL GM.

I'll take a wait and see approach, but I liked a lot of the Texans picks.

JB
04-27-2010, 04:44 PM
If you are I suppose I am too, cuz I feel exactly the same as you.

Damn, me too! Maybe it's contagious! :thinking:

Joe Texan
04-27-2010, 04:44 PM
:worthless:

Joe Texan
04-27-2010, 04:46 PM
this thread is Worthless

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2010, 04:50 PM
Damn, me too! Maybe it's contagious! :thinking:

I feel the same way .

The funny thing is , all these internet guys don't even come close to hitting the real thing . So what makes their evaluations right and what's their experience .

At this point in time ... nobody's right ... nobody's wrong .

beerlover
04-27-2010, 04:55 PM
this thread is Worthless

good to see your feeling your old self, but you know when someone has something to get off their chest this is as good of constructive place to come as any. your one of our best fans its important for you to shower us with your insight as well :shower:

beerlover
04-27-2010, 05:03 PM
I feel the same way .

The funny thing is , all these internet guys don't even come close to hitting the real thing . So what makes their evaluations right and what's their experience .

At this point in time ... nobody's right ... nobody's wrong .

you impressed me with your draft insight, the draft is emotional. I felt sorry for my friends who are big Toby Gerhart fans, imagine its your guy & he's there for the picking, then the Texans move out (excellent move IMO) I just never had the sense (even though they say they where split on taking Toby) that he was bound to be a Texan. Usually my guy never makes it to the Texans pick, this year it was Earl Thomas, lets just hope that Kareem has similar results to Brian Cushing & that Ben Tate becomes the stud Steve Slaton was as rookies? if that happens we'll be in good shape :)

ObsiWan
04-27-2010, 05:23 PM
:worthless:

No...
It is NOT.
This is a rite of Spring!
Arguing about who we did or didn't draft is as much a part of football as tailgating or wearing your team's jersey or laughing at Mel Kiper's hair.
it's what we do.
leave us alone.

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2010, 05:39 PM
you impressed me with your draft insight, the draft is emotional. I felt sorry for my friends who are big Toby Gerhart fans, imagine its your guy & he's there for the picking, then the Texans move out (excellent move IMO) I just never had the sense (even though they say they where split on taking Toby) that he was bound to be a Texan. Usually my guy never makes it to the Texans pick, this year it was Earl Thomas, lets just hope that Kareem has similar results to Brian Cushing & that Ben Tate becomes the stud Steve Slaton was as rookies? if that happens we'll be in good shape :)

We're just fans looking for something to do . I'm talking about the guys who write or have their own website . Those guys give out a bunch of information .

I heard someone quoting Roger Godell about 600 million in signing bonuses paid out to rookies . I think they said half wouldn't make through the term of their contract . That 300 million gone with the wind .

JB
04-27-2010, 05:40 PM
I feel the same way .

The funny thing is , all these internet guys don't even come close to hitting the real thing . So what makes their evaluations right and what's their experience .

At this point in time ... nobody's right ... nobody's wrong .

See! I told ya it's contagious!

Thorn
04-27-2010, 06:07 PM
No...
It is NOT.
This is a rite of Spring!
Arguing about who we did or didn't draft is as much a part of football as tailgating or wearing your team's jersey or laughing at Mel Kiper's hair.
it's what we do.
leave us alone.

I'm right, you're wrong. LOL

ChampionTexan
04-27-2010, 06:12 PM
I'm right, you're wrong. LOL

I feel exactly the same way!

JB
04-27-2010, 06:14 PM
I feel exactly the same way!

Omg, it's becoming an epidemic!

Corrosion
04-27-2010, 06:45 PM
We're just fans looking for something to do . I'm talking about the guys who write or have their own website . Those guys give out a bunch of information .

I heard someone quoting Roger Godell about 600 million in signing bonuses paid out to rookies . I think they said half wouldn't make through the term of their contract . That 300 million gone with the wind .

I heard that as well - He was refering to the $50 million (or more) in guaranteed money that will likely be paid to Sam Bradford and how it negatively affects the team with the top pick. Picking first is suppose to help that team but the money involved really hurts them cap wise. Cant trade the pick for its value , Have to pay huge money to the top group -

They also referenced the NBA rookie scale.

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2010, 07:21 PM
Here's Scott Wright list of who was picked to early or to late .

It's funny because he has several picks from the Colts and the Pats as being picked to early . Those are two teams I might not question .

http://www.draftcountdown.com/Results/Values-Reaches.php

Also something else to chew on .

http://www.ourlads.com/nflcombineratings/default.aspx

Joe Texan
04-27-2010, 07:42 PM
Mock draft guy is just bracket guy with out college basketball.

Those who complain about the Texans Draft are the same people who complain to the Texans when they leave the roof open in 60 degree weather

Corrosion
04-27-2010, 07:43 PM
Here's Scott Wright list of who was picked to early or to late .

It's funny because he has several picks from the Colts and the Pats as being picked to early . Those are two teams I might not question .

http://www.draftcountdown.com/Results/Values-Reaches.php

Also something else to chew on .

http://www.ourlads.com/nflcombineratings/default.aspx

They had Tate #1 , Gerhart #4 and Mathews #6


I hope to hell they are right

michaelm
04-27-2010, 08:27 PM
A lot of pre-draft comments on Gerhart was that he could not do well in our system and that is just not true; even Smith acknowledged TG and Tate were rated similarly and the draft room was divided.

There may have been a lot of pre draft comments about Gerhart not doing well in our system, but not from me. That isn't what I said, or alluded to.
I said I thought Tate would do better, but that doesn't mean that I thought Gerhart would necessarily do bad.
That's not really my point, though. I was basically disagreeing with your assertion that the staff looked stupid by way of the trades they made.
I totally disagree. I mean even you are saying that the FO had the two players rated very closely, and that Tate was #3 on your own board. I just don't see where the team making trades that resulted in better draft position overall, and got them the player they wanted can be viewed as something that makes them look stupid.
I'm not trying to attack you or anything, it's just that my personal feeling is that your judgement is being clouded by your attachment to Gerhart as a pick.

leebigeztx
04-27-2010, 10:01 PM
We know for a fact that two separate scouting departments for NFL teams had Wilson rated lower as a corner. Two NFL teams who have a much better idea of what player fits their particular defensive scheme. It's really not even that hard to imagine the Patriots having Jackson rated higher. He was coached by Saban who worked under Bellicheck and BB has certainly shown an affinity for players developed by his former coaches. Not to mention they traded out of 22 after Jackson was gone. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that he was rated higher on the Patriots board, but the simple fact that two NFL teams passed on Wilson (one of which has a pretty solid drafting record) seems to indicate that perhaps your rankings weren't as accurate as you hoped they would be. Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I'd rather see how these guys perform on the field for the Texans before lambasting a pick or the scouting department.

This needs to be said again. Parcells,Ireland,Bilechek,pioli, and those guys normally always hit the farms of guys they used to work with. When groh was with virginia, throw him in the mix. Also the iowa coach belongs in there too. The steelers,titans,and falcons all needed corners and passed on wilson. As soon as jackson was drafted, the patriots traded out of their pick. Thats says something considering they took mccourty later on. I'm not saying its the end all, be all, but we will see.

Badboy, what makes you think jackson can't run? His top end is good, his speed is good and he has good football speed. Reeves has great catchup speed, but if you don't get beat, you don't need it with technique.

eriadoc
04-27-2010, 11:52 PM
I felt sorry for my friends who are big Toby Gerhart fans, imagine its your guy & he's there for the picking, then the Texans move out (excellent move IMO) I just never had the sense (even though they say they where split on taking Toby) that he was bound to be a Texan.

Well for me, my first and foremost issue with the draft was not who they selected, but what they selected. After the first couple rounds, I don't know one prospect from another, unless they come from one of three schools. So if the Texans have one guy valued higher than another, OK fine. But when they have their seventh TE valued higher than a FS, I take issue with that, no matter how good the TE might turn out to be. When they have the same type of DE that hasn't been working out rated higher than the type of DT that most folks seem to think they need, then I take issue with that. Etc., etc., etc.

As for Gerhart, I'm a big fan, and I wanted him on this team badly. But Tate was my second choice. So my only issue with the Tate selection was the FUBAR of the trade-down/trade-up. Tate+extra 3rd rounder > Gerhart all day. But Tate+an extra 5th rounder? That's a bit more iffy, given the percentages of 5th rounders making NFL rosters. Not to mention, it felt like they were trying to pull off their best Casserley riverboat gambler impression. It just came across like amateur hour in the war room. But whatever.

I'm pulling for all the guys they selected to work out, but even if they do, it doesn't fill a couple holes that they could have tried to address.

Lucky
04-28-2010, 12:06 AM
I heard someone quoting Roger Godell about 600 million in signing bonuses paid out to rookies . I think they said half wouldn't make through the term of their contract . That 300 million gone with the wind .
If they said half the rookies wouldn't make it through the terms of their contract, sure. That's why it's called Not For Long. If they said half the $600 million would be dead money, I have to say horse hockey. The majority of the high $$$ rookie contracts go to players who play to the end of the contract, or are extended.

wagonhed
04-28-2010, 12:15 AM
I've got some serious questions that have been bugging me. I'd love it if anyone can answer them.

First of all, people always talk about how the best teams in the NFL stick to their draft board and draft with a BPA type strategy. If this were true, how do you explain teams like the Patriots and Colts clearly drafting for their needs in the top rounds? Furthermore, if this is the strategy the Texans are theoretically following (that's the excuse/reason we get for the 4-7 round picks), why is it we went CB, RB, DT in the first three rounds, clearly need picks and not BPA picks?

Second question is also about BPA drafting. How exactly is drafting a BPA that comes in an extremely deep position helping the team? I understand the concept of BPA, you get good football players and it just helps your team in the long run. So, what if Graham Garrett is the next Antonio Gates? How will we even find this out? How is the kid going to get any playing time? The only conceivable way he helps our team is by starting instead of Owen Daniels, which obviously is a bit of a ridiculous notion and even if he were the next Gates, that is barely an upgrade over Daniels who is a pro bowler himself.

I just don't agree with the logic of BPA. The drafting strategy should be BPA at need positions. Not BPA in general. I have the same gripe with Earl Mitchell. Dude is a 3 technique. We have Amobi Okoye. Yeah, Amobi Okoye kind of sucks, but he is better than what we have at 1 technique. At best, Earl Mitchell completely replaces Okoye as starting 3-tech and we still have a gaping hole at 1-tech.


So what would I have done? I'm not a scout, I don't know who the good players were. But this is what my draft would have looked like position wise:

1. CB
2. RB
3. DT (1-tech)
4a. FS
4b. C
5. CB
6a. DT
6b. WLB
7. WR

IMO, you look for STARTERS in the draft.

If you want special teamers, you pick them up as UDFA. Drafting a player intended to be a backup in the 4th is ridiculous to me.


I'm mostly just rambling because I'm bored. I'm pretty happy with most of our draft. I just don't like the TE, KR, or G pick because I think pure BPA is a flawed strategy. I'm frustrated with the LB pick because we should have targeted a pure cover WLB and I'm frustrated with our strategy at DT which I think has failed so far. And mostly, I like whining about stuff occasionally because it's the off season.

buddyboy
04-28-2010, 01:22 AM
I've got some serious questions that have been bugging me. I'd love it if anyone can answer them.

First of all, people always talk about how the best teams in the NFL stick to their draft board and draft with a BPA type strategy. If this were true, how do you explain teams like the Patriots and Colts clearly drafting for their needs in the top rounds? Furthermore, if this is the strategy the Texans are theoretically following (that's the excuse/reason we get for the 4-7 round picks), why is it we went CB, RB, DT in the first three rounds, clearly need picks and not BPA picks?

Second question is also about BPA drafting. How exactly is drafting a BPA that comes in an extremely deep position helping the team? I understand the concept of BPA, you get good football players and it just helps your team in the long run. So, what if Graham Garrett is the next Antonio Gates? How will we even find this out? How is the kid going to get any playing time? The only conceivable way he helps our team is by starting instead of Owen Daniels, which obviously is a bit of a ridiculous notion and even if he were the next Gates, that is barely an upgrade over Daniels who is a pro bowler himself.

I just don't agree with the logic of BPA. The drafting strategy should be BPA at need positions. Not BPA in general. I have the same gripe with Earl Mitchell. Dude is a 3 technique. We have Amobi Okoye. Yeah, Amobi Okoye kind of sucks, but he is better than what we have at 1 technique. At best, Earl Mitchell completely replaces Okoye as starting 3-tech and we still have a gaping hole at 1-tech.


So what would I have done? I'm not a scout, I don't know who the good players were. But this is what my draft would have looked like position wise:

1. CB
2. RB
3. DT (1-tech)
4a. FS
4b. C
5. CB
6a. DT
6b. WLB
7. WR

IMO, you look for STARTERS in the draft.

If you want special teamers, you pick them up as UDFA. Drafting a player intended to be a backup in the 4th is ridiculous to me.


I'm mostly just rambling because I'm bored. I'm pretty happy with most of our draft. I just don't like the TE, KR, or G pick because I think pure BPA is a flawed strategy. I'm frustrated with the LB pick because we should have targeted a pure cover WLB and I'm frustrated with our strategy at DT which I think has failed so far. And mostly, I like whining about stuff occasionally because it's the off season.

If you're team is looking desperately for a starter at 5-7, you're team is in deep trouble.

leebigeztx
04-28-2010, 01:32 AM
I've got some serious questions that have been bugging me. I'd love it if anyone can answer them.

First of all, people always talk about how the best teams in the NFL stick to their draft board and draft with a BPA type strategy. If this were true, how do you explain teams like the Patriots and Colts clearly drafting for their needs in the top rounds? Furthermore, if this is the strategy the Texans are theoretically following (that's the excuse/reason we get for the 4-7 round picks), why is it we went CB, RB, DT in the first three rounds, clearly need picks and not BPA picks?

Second question is also about BPA drafting. How exactly is drafting a BPA that comes in an extremely deep position helping the team? I understand the concept of BPA, you get good football players and it just helps your team in the long run. So, what if Graham Garrett is the next Antonio Gates? How will we even find this out? How is the kid going to get any playing time? The only conceivable way he helps our team is by starting instead of Owen Daniels, which obviously is a bit of a ridiculous notion and even if he were the next Gates, that is barely an upgrade over Daniels who is a pro bowler himself.

I just don't agree with the logic of BPA. The drafting strategy should be BPA at need positions. Not BPA in general. I have the same gripe with Earl Mitchell. Dude is a 3 technique. We have Amobi Okoye. Yeah, Amobi Okoye kind of sucks, but he is better than what we have at 1 technique. At best, Earl Mitchell completely replaces Okoye as starting 3-tech and we still have a gaping hole at 1-tech.


So what would I have done? I'm not a scout, I don't know who the good players were. But this is what my draft would have looked like position wise:

1. CB
2. RB
3. DT (1-tech)
4a. FS
4b. C
5. CB
6a. DT
6b. WLB
7. WR

IMO, you look for STARTERS in the draft.

If you want special teamers, you pick them up as UDFA. Drafting a player intended to be a backup in the 4th is ridiculous to me.


I'm mostly just rambling because I'm bored. I'm pretty happy with most of our draft. I just don't like the TE, KR, or G pick because I think pure BPA is a flawed strategy. I'm frustrated with the LB pick because we should have targeted a pure cover WLB and I'm frustrated with our strategy at DT which I think has failed so far. And mostly, I like whining about stuff occasionally because it's the off season.

I can't answer all your questions, but i have some insight. The true indicator is how you rate a player.There are some teams that don't even have guys on their board and other have them rated highly. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That said, you really want that bpa availible to also be at or close to a need position. If you were looking at the ravens team, it was easy to say corner was a bigger need than rush lb or de. If they had stayed there, they couldve drafted wilson, but they moved down because kindle was falling. kindle wasn't a real need especially after just paying suggs, but he was the highest rated player on their board and they took him. The same can be said for indy with Saffold sitting there, but hughes had a higher draft grade. You mentioned graham as an example. What if daniels is slow to come back from injury or goes down again and this kid ave the same production as daniels did as a rookie? Then daniels still wants to be paid like he was pre injury? What do the team do? They do what all organizations do and move on.

Teams should always, for the most part ,take their highest rated player on their board. If its close, then you take the need pick. Baltimore did this last year drafting the tackle and now with gaither's injury, they can get a 1st or 2nd for gither even if they drafted him in the 4th of a supplemental draft. Stay true and everything works out well.

beerlover
04-28-2010, 06:28 AM
Mock draft guy is just bracket guy with out college basketball.

Those who complain about the Texans Draft are the same people who complain to the Texans when they leave the roof open in 60 degree weather

until every angle from every corner is exposed nobody gets out of here alive, you of all people should realize that :fingergun:

ubecool454
04-28-2010, 06:49 AM
To the Thread Starter....you are entitled to your opinion but I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. I can tell you are a Gerhart fan but I would have been afraid to draft a lightskinned RB too...no offense. We won't know for a few years how this draft turned out.

Honoring Earl 34
04-28-2010, 07:02 AM
If you're team is looking desperately for a starter at 5-7, you're team is in deep trouble.

I wonder what the break down is on starters by round picked . An example , I guess would be starters picked in rd 1 = 30% , 2nd = 20% , and so on .

rmartin65
04-28-2010, 07:03 AM
To the Thread Starter....you are entitled to your opinion but I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. I can tell you are a Gerhart fan but I would have been afraid to draft a lightskinned RB too...no offense. We won't know for a few years how this draft turned out.

Wait... are you for real? Damn, that is blatant racism. Just as if someone said "I would not draft Young, I would be too afraid to draft a dark skinned QB". It is one thing to dislike a player for his skills. For example "I would be too afraid to draft Young because his throwing motion is awful, and he cant read defenses to save his life".

About Gerhart vs. Tate, we will see who has a better career. Tate will get most of the chances early on, as he will be the starter while Gerhart is a backup to AP.

Grams
04-28-2010, 07:28 AM
Sorry -computer operator malfunction - double posted :(

Grams
04-28-2010, 07:29 AM
Draft analysis and grades are pretty useless at this point in time.

How good/bad a player is at the NFL level is unknown. You can search the web and find dozens player analysis that supports your thought on a pick, and dozens of player analysis that supports the opposite.

I just seem to remember a few years ago all the rage about a DE as a first pick when the "next coming of Barry Sanders, Jim Brown and the best thing since sliced bread" was not picked first. Since then the team that did pick up the next Barry Sanders has had - how many RB's?

I just leave the picking of the picks to the experts - the real experts, then go and read up on them and watch what highlights I can or read the reports someone here posts after watching the actual games.

I also though WTF when they picked some TE's, but after some though do see the need for some with most of our TE's hurt. Esp with OD as this is his 3rd (?) knee surgery. Who knows how he will come back and if it becomes a similar case as Dunta I can see him being traded or let go.

Getting backup or special teams players seems to be a nice place to be. If one of our LB's gets hurt there is some depth to fill in when necessary. A speedy little guy to handle KR is just plain fun. And the TE they drafted to be a WR just reminds me of AJ to some extent while watching some video.

How any of these guys will work out at the NFL level no one knows. We have to wait and see. But after reading up on them all, I am ready for the football season to start. Too bad it is several months away.

TimeKiller
04-28-2010, 08:17 AM
To the Thread Starter....you are entitled to your opinion but I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.
hehehe followed by I would have been afraid to draft a lightskinned RB too...no offense.

I got your offense right here buddy <^> *.* <^>

If ignorance is bliss you must live in Candyland.

Thorn
04-28-2010, 08:22 AM
Draft analysis and grades are pretty useless at this point in time.

<snip>


How any of these guys will work out at the NFL level no one knows. We have to wait and see. But after reading up on them all, I am ready for the football season to start. Too bad it is several months away.

Quote of the day.

Rep for the post Grams.

BigBull17
04-28-2010, 08:34 AM
Draft analysis and grades are pretty useless at this point in time.

How good/bad a player is at the NFL level is unknown. You can search the web and find dozens player analysis that supports your thought on a pick, and dozens of player analysis that supports the opposite.

I just seem to remember a few years ago all the rage about a DE as a first pick when the "next coming of Barry Sanders, Jim Brown and the best thing since sliced bread" was not picked first. Since then the team that did pick up the next Barry Sanders has had - how many RB's?

I just leave the picking of the picks to the experts - the real experts, then go and read up on them and watch what highlights I can or read the reports someone here posts after watching the actual games.

I also though WTF when they picked some TE's, but after some though do see the need for some with most of our TE's hurt. Esp with OD as this is his 3rd (?) knee surgery. Who knows how he will come back and if it becomes a similar case as Dunta I can see him being traded or let go.

Getting backup or special teams players seems to be a nice place to be. If one of our LB's gets hurt there is some depth to fill in when necessary. A speedy little guy to handle KR is just plain fun. And the TE they drafted to be a WR just reminds me of AJ to some extent while watching some video.

How any of these guys will work out at the NFL level no one knows. We have to wait and see. But after reading up on them all, I am ready for the football season to start. Too bad it is several months away.

The front office has been bitten before by not being cautious with injuries. They get killed when they don't plan ahead for injuries, and killed when they do plan ahead for injuries.

badboy
04-28-2010, 09:07 AM
I only saw a couple of games of TG. Yes he got alot of yards but he also got stacked up alot on goal to go chances and 3rd and 1s by guys smaller than him. I thought that he hasn't gotten popped good enough yet to see what he could do after he took a hit and if he would keep playing at that level. Ben Tate showed me those things and i think that is why I like him more but TG was right behind him.

I was there when we drafted thinking "Ben Tate or Toby Gerhart, Ben Tate or Toby Gerhart".Not doubting what you saw but
Ben Tate 2009 TDs 10 Career 24
TGerhart 2009 TDs 27 Career 43

badboy
04-28-2010, 09:17 AM
No...
It is NOT.
This is a rite of Spring!
Arguing about who we did or didn't draft is as much a part of football as tailgating or wearing your team's jersey or laughing at Mel Kiper's hair.
it's what we do.
leave us alone.:clap: It is funny that some people complain yet still show up to grumble. They remind me of the guy who hangs out at the beach but grumbles about the girls in the bikinis.

badboy
04-28-2010, 09:22 AM
I'm right, you're wrong. LOLYes but based on what statistics? lol

wagonhed
04-28-2010, 09:25 AM
You know what I saw every time I watched footage of Toby Gerhart? I saw over and over again hitting holes that were already 4-5 yards downfield, running through defenders that were either backpedaling or just barely getting off their blocks. I don't think I saw a single run where he had to actually make it through a hole at the line of scrimmage. His OL was too good. Now I'm only talking about highlight reels here, but from what I've seen his production was in large part due to an OL that completely dominated at that level. But how many times in the NFL do you see the whole defense get blown back and initial holes opening 4 yards downfield?

Dutchrudder
04-28-2010, 09:37 AM
You know what I saw every time I watched footage of Toby Gerhart? I saw over and over again hitting holes that were already 4-5 yards downfield, running through defenders that were either backpedaling or just barely getting off their blocks. I don't think I saw a single run where he had to actually make it through a hole at the line of scrimmage. His OL was too good. Now I'm only talking about highlight reels here, but from what I've seen his production was in large part due to an OL that completely dominated at that level. But how many times in the NFL do you see the whole defense get blown back and initial holes opening 4 yards downfield?

Have you ever watched the Browns play? :splits:

badboy
04-28-2010, 09:49 AM
There may have been a lot of pre draft comments about Gerhart not doing well in our system, but not from me. That isn't what I said, or alluded to.
I said I thought Tate would do better, but that doesn't mean that I thought Gerhart would necessarily do bad.
That's not really my point, though. I was basically disagreeing with your assertion that the staff looked stupid by way of the trades they made.
I totally disagree. I mean even you are saying that the FO had the two players rated very closely, and that Tate was #3 on your own board. I just don't see where the team making trades that resulted in better draft position overall, and got them the player they wanted can be viewed as something that makes them look stupid.
I'm not trying to attack you or anything, it's just that my personal feeling is that your judgement is being clouded by your attachment to Gerhart as a pick.It was noted in the paper and on TV (last night on NFL Total Access) that Texans made a trade down with Vikings and got an extra 3rd then moved quickly to rebound back into the same round Now that did bother me because I like TG and he was right there. That was not the stupid part because I did not think Minnesota would draft him with the power back already on the roster. Fooled me too. The stupid part was not realizing that two teams now ahead of Texans after the trade down wanted backs just like Tate. The "panic" referred to by some in the media then ensued with Texans trading back up to go get Tate. Someone should have thought (and maybe did and were over ridden) there are two premium back left (Tate and TG) & and least two teams (three counting Vikings as we quickly found out) that wanted backs (Browns selected Hardesty and Seattle selecting Golden Tate).

You might think my attachment to any player clouds my judgement but I think I have tried to support each of my players with documented info that one may agree or disagree with. I think Rmartin65 and Beerlover will testify to this as during all of our mock preparation, I did change some of my guys for theirs but only after much debate and info from them to support each position.

JB
04-28-2010, 09:56 AM
It was noted in the paper and on TV (last night on NFL Total Access) that Texans made a trade down with Vikings and got an extra 3rd then moved quickly to rebound back into the same round Now that did bother me because I like TG and he was right there. That was not the stupid part because I did not think Minnesota would draft him with the power back already on the roster. Fooled me too. The stupid part was not realizing that two teams now ahead of Texans after the trade down wanted backs just like Tate. The "panic" referred to by some in the media then ensued with Texans trading back up to go get Tate. Someone should have thought (and maybe did and were over ridden) there are two premium back left (Tate and TG) & and least two teams (three counting Vikings as we quickly found out) that wanted backs (Browns selected Hardesty and Seattle selecting Golden Tate).
You might think my attachment to any player clouds my judgement but I think I have tried to support each of my players with documented info that one may agree or disagree with. I think Rmartin65 and Beerlover will testify to this as during all of our mock preparation, I did change some of my guys for theirs but only after much debate and info from them to support each position.


I thought Golden Tate was a WR from ND?

badboy
04-28-2010, 09:57 AM
This needs to be said again. Parcells,Ireland,Bilechek,pioli, and those guys normally always hit the farms of guys they used to work with. When groh was with virginia, throw him in the mix. Also the iowa coach belongs in there too. The steelers,titans,and falcons all needed corners and passed on wilson. As soon as jackson was drafted, the patriots traded out of their pick. Thats says something considering they took mccourty later on. I'm not saying its the end all, be all, but we will see.

Badboy, what makes you think jackson can't run? His top end is good, his speed is good and he has good football speed. Reeves has great catchup speed, but if you don't get beat, you don't need it with technique.Did you think Atlanta would draft a first round CB after signing Dunta to a huge FA contract? Most mocks I saw for Pittsburgh had them going Oline (and they did) and I doubt many were surprised that Tennessee drafted a Dlineman.

Concerning your question on Jackson's running ability, I have explained that on earlier post. More to do with his mental change over from "uh oh, I guessed wrong to go catch him".

76Texan
04-28-2010, 10:15 AM
Did you think Atlanta would draft a first round CB after signing Dunta to a huge FA contract? Most mocks I saw for Pittsburgh had them going Oline (and they did) and I doubt many were surprised that Tennessee drafted a Dlineman.

Concerning your question on Jackson's running ability, I have explained that on earlier post. More to do with his mental change over from "uh oh, I guessed wrong to go catch him".I wonder where did you see this?

In what game?

I saw a couple of plays when he's behind the WR, but there were help in the middle. I've seen the Tides play this way many times to try for an INT if the QB happens to throw it short.

Other than that, I don't see him get beat to even say that he was guessing wrong and have to go chase the receiver.
Even if I missed one, it would be only just one play.

Maybe you saw something from last year?

badboy
04-28-2010, 10:22 AM
To the Thread Starter....you are entitled to your opinion but I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. I can tell you are a Gerhart fan but I would have been afraid to draft a lightskinned RB too...no offense. We won't know for a few years how this draft turned out.I am the Thread Starter and I appreciate you allowing me my opinion. I do support my opinion with info. Without you giving any facts to support your opinion that I am clueless, you seem to me to be the type to just accept everything the Texans do without question. Attack me if you will but at least have the courage to say why.

Your statement of you are "afraid to draft a lightskinned RB too" makes you look pretty stupid and again you offer nothing to support such a ridiculous statement. You actually think the Texans did not choose Gerhart because he is white? Wow.

El Tejano
04-28-2010, 10:28 AM
So, what if Graham Garrett is the next Antonio Gates?


We've been doing it to Owen Daniels (Daniel Owens) and now we are doing it to Garrett Graham!!!!!

Steve Slayton is laughing.

badboy
04-28-2010, 10:37 AM
I thought Golden Tate was a WR from ND?yes, he is and the guy and woman discussing it last night laughed at how it appeared. They discussed that Seattle wanted Tate and Texans thought it was our guy rather than the WR. Their point was did Seattle really want RB Tate and selected WR Tate 2 spots later as BPA or did Seattle start a rumor about wanting a "Tate". That might explain the "panic" comments about Houston moving back up into the second round.

eriadoc
04-28-2010, 10:45 AM
We've been doing it to Owen Daniels (Daniel Owens) and now we are doing it to Garrett Graham!!!!!

Steve Slayton is laughing.

You forgot Kevin WalterS.

Maybe this team just goes after player that have two first names or two last names instead of a normal name. :D

HoustonFrog
04-28-2010, 10:49 AM
this thread is Worthless

Badboy and I haven't gotten along about alot of stuff but I'm not sure why he is being ripped about his opinion on this stuff. I think it is awesome that he took the time to scout these guys and really put alot of effort into his mocks. That is more than most who do a cursory glance and just go with it. As I said earlier I have read alot of opinions that had Wilson higher. Just because a couple of teams had Jackson higher doesn't mean they're right. Just like Badboy might not be right. We will never know until down the road but it takes alot of effort to do the research and takes alot of effort to write a post like the OP, which goes through the process and the picks. So I commend him on that and think he and Beer and others did a great job.

thunderkyss
04-28-2010, 01:43 PM
1.Badboy: Kyle Wilson 5'10" 194 4.43 bump & run and cover guy that can close with a burst.

2.Badboy: Toby Gerhart 6' 231 4.5s He is sitting right there! Dennison said both were rated even and if we could have gotten Tate and kept the 3rd, brilliant. But we didn't. So much for TG versus Jonathan Dwyer.

3.Badboy: Moeaki6'3" 245 great receiver, needs to work on blocking. An OD clone if you will.

4.Badboy: #118 Owusu-Ansah 6'207 4.41 CB/FS/KR This was my FS and back up corner. BTW, Ed Campo of Dallas is saying he is the FS.http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04/24/2140336/dallas-cowboys-draft-pick-from.html
Ansah also averaged 30 yards as a senior on kick returns.

4b. Garrett Graham similar to OD but in my draft we have better TE with Moeaki. I have no 4th as I did not trade.

5. Badboy: Rashad Jones 6'1"214 4.51 I was stunned he was here and he had a 3-4 th round range. Can play SS to back Pollard or FS. Fast, hard hitter.

6a Badboy: David Gettis WR 6'3" 217 pro day 40 4.39 and does not have to convert from TE. 52 receptions 3 TDs. Big guy in Red Zone who could make one of current WRs obsolete. Had him on one of my earliest mocks. *Note Jonathan Dwyer was still available and I almost went with him as I wanted one more back in TC.
6b Trindon Holliday: I almost fell out of my chair, RMartin65 pick this guy from way back when and we put him on our final mock.
Badboy:To be honest due to his small size I really looked hard for another player but this kid should be great. I hope he keeps his Blue Cross/Blue SHield premium paid up.

7.Badboy: Jeff Owen DT 6'1" 304 4.94 40. 65 and Beerlover researched the heck out of this guy and he is super strong and Pepto's (stops) the runs. We had him as high as 4th and would have been a steal. I'll put him against Mitchell especially comparing where each was selected.


Looks like a nice draft. I would have been happy with it, if that's the way the Texans went, but they didn't, so it sucks...... :splits: Just playing.

I was hoping we'd do something and get Taylor Mays in the third. After the Texans picked a DT... I was like, "OK, I can see that too.

& I say Taylor Mays, because I've heard the name floating around here, and he was still available in the third. I don't know any of these kids. If the majority of fans (and analysts) are happy, I'm happy.

For me, the difference between your draft, and the Texans is on the DT. If Jeff Owen & Mitchell have comparable seasons/careers then I want you on the Texans scouting staff.

If not... I'd still want you there, so you can explain to them how rational people think.

It's not that I don't like our draft.. but I'm still scratching my head.

BigBull17
04-28-2010, 02:19 PM
Looks like a nice draft. I would have been happy with it, if that's the way the Texans went, but they didn't, so it sucks...... :splits: Just playing.

I was hoping we'd do something and get Taylor Mays in the third. After the Texans picked a DT... I was like, "OK, I can see that too.

& I say Taylor Mays, because I've heard the name floating around here, and he was still available in the third. I don't know any of these kids. If the majority of fans (and analysts) are happy, I'm happy.

For me, the difference between your draft, and the Texans is on the DT. If Jeff Owen & Mitchell have comparable seasons/careers then I want you on the Texans scouting staff.

If not... I'd still want you there, so you can explain to them how rational people think.

It's not that I don't like our draft.. but I'm still scratching my head.

Mays was taken 50th by the Niners. He didn't make it to our 2nd round pick.

beerlover
04-28-2010, 02:25 PM
Seattle addressed their RB need via trades picking up LenDale White (cost only moving down in 6th rd. a few spots) & swapped a 5th for 7th to get Leon Washington. Guess that was their adjustment to Texans trading up ahead of them to get Tate. good value but still think I'd prefer Tate.

thunderkyss
04-28-2010, 02:26 PM
Mays was taken 50th by the Niners. He didn't make it to our 2nd round pick.

That's what I meant by do something... trade up or pray.

badboy
04-28-2010, 03:39 PM
Looks like a nice draft. I would have been happy with it, if that's the way the Texans went, but they didn't, so it sucks...... :splits: Just playing.

I was hoping we'd do something and get Taylor Mays in the third. After the Texans picked a DT... I was like, "OK, I can see that too.

& I say Taylor Mays, because I've heard the name floating around here, and he was still available in the third. I don't know any of these kids. If the majority of fans (and analysts) are happy, I'm happy.

For me, the difference between your draft, and the Texans is on the DT. If Jeff Owen & Mitchell have comparable seasons/careers then I want you on the Texans scouting staff.

If not... I'd still want you there, so you can explain to them how rational people think.

It's not that I don't like our draft.. but I'm still scratching my head.Thanks, TK. As you may recall at the beginning of the last college season, I had posted positive comments about Taylor Mays. In fact, I was so excited one of the posters had to remind me that I gave him a different first name. Unfortunately two things happened after my thread 1. Mays decided to not come out early 2) he had a not so great year that caused detractors to really dig deep into his game tape. He eventually fell off my first round board but thought he could have gone to either Oakland or more reasonably to Dallas. I do see him more as a strong safety type. On the DT, my MocK Mate BeerLover identified Mitchell as a good candidate & thinks he could be a real good player for us.

JCTexan
04-28-2010, 03:59 PM
yes, he is and the guy and woman discussing it last night laughed at how it appeared. They discussed that Seattle wanted Tate and Texans thought it was our guy rather than the WR. Their point was did Seattle really want RB Tate and selected WR Tate 2 spots later as BPA or did Seattle start a rumor about wanting a "Tate". That might explain the "panic" comments about Houston moving back up into the second round.

What makes you think Houston panicked? They traded back 11 spots for a 3rd, then traded ahead of the next group of teams that needed a RB for a 5th. That doesn't sound like panic, it sounds like smart drafting IMO.

badboy
04-28-2010, 04:07 PM
What makes you think Houston panicked? They traded back 11 spots for a 3rd, then traded ahead of the next group of teams that needed a RB for a 5th. That doesn't sound like panic, it sounds like smart drafting IMO.Guys on ESPN and NFL Total Access voiced that opinion and not positive but one of the beat writers for Houston paper did also, if I remember correctly.

Honoring Earl 34
04-28-2010, 04:30 PM
Guys on ESPN and NFL Total Access voiced that opinion and not positive but one of the beat writers for Houston paper did also, if I remember correctly.

I remember them saying that they traded down because they had the two ( Gerhart and Tate ) rated even . IMO ... they wanted Tate and I'm betting the Vikings told the Texans they wanted Gerhart . They make the trade and then traded up for Tate . Who was Taken right after Tate ?

The Pencil Neck
04-28-2010, 04:32 PM
I remember them saying that they traded down because they had the two ( Gerhart and Tate ) rated even . IMO ... they wanted Tate and I'm betting the Vikings told the Texans they wanted Gerhart . They make the trade and then traded up for Tate . Who was Taken right after Tate ?

Hardesty.

And that's just some smooth working of the draft as far as I'm concerned. No panic whatsoever but maybe a few sweaty palms until it got done.

Honoring Earl 34
04-28-2010, 04:36 PM
Hardesty.

And that's just some smooth working of the draft as far as I'm concerned. No panic whatsoever but maybe a few sweaty palms until it got done.

The key is , how many RBs were picked in the next 3 rounds ?

The Pencil Neck
04-28-2010, 04:42 PM
The key is , how many RBs were picked in the next 3 rounds ?

Two: McKnight in the 4th, Conner (FB) in the 5th.

So... if your point is that there was a sharp drop-off in perceived talent after Tate and Hardesty... it looks like it.

Honoring Earl 34
04-28-2010, 04:49 PM
Two: McKnight in the 4th, Conner (FB) in the 5th.

So... if your point is that there was a sharp drop-off in perceived talent after Tate and Hardesty... it looks like it.

I thought the RBs in this draft were A and B in several categories .

scat back .. A . Spiller B. Best

Speed/size A. Matthews , Tate ... B. Hardesty

Power Back A. Gerhart ... no B .

I thought the Texans wanted the bolded and really weren't interested in Hardesty . So if they didn't get Tate , then they would have looked silly .

bckey
04-28-2010, 10:05 PM
you seem to me to be the type to just accept everything the Texans do without question. Joe Texan?

Texan_Bill
04-28-2010, 10:09 PM
Joe Texan?

That's a bull**** post!! I've talked Joe Texan off of many of ledges...

bckey
04-28-2010, 10:13 PM
That's a bull**** post!! I've talked Joe Texan off of many of ledges...

Joe was only talked off by you because Bob wasn't below with open arms to catch him.

JCTexan
04-28-2010, 10:15 PM
I thought the RBs in this draft were A and B in several categories .

scat back .. A . Spiller B. Best

Speed/size A. Matthews , Tate ... B. Hardesty

Power Back A. Gerhart ... no B .

I thought the Texans wanted the bolded and really weren't interested in Hardesty . So if they didn't get Tate , then they would have looked silly .

It could have ended up a lot like last year if they didn't get Tate. They wanted Greene & Coffee in the 3rd last year & neither slipped to their pick so they ended up with no RB's. I'm extremely glad they didn't end up in a similar situation.

Texan_Bill
04-28-2010, 10:19 PM
Joe was only talked off by you because Bob wasn't below with open arms to catch him.

I'm sorry, I've had an adult beverage. What does that mean??

Joe Texan
04-29-2010, 08:46 AM
Thanks Bill
I am the type of person who leaves the football stuff up to the football people, which I am so glad it is not you. I myself am an irrigation expert and can tell anyone here anything they want to know about irrigation, that being said a lot of you might have trouble reading what I have written and confuse that with irritation, which is fine by me. I do not claim to be the guy who anally analyzes every player so I know what his jock smells like just so I can get it right on draft day. I am a fan, I love the Texans. Do I want to win? YES and I will be behind the Texans and thier decisions every step of the way wether you like it or not because it is not about you at all it is about the TEXANS.

76Texan
04-29-2010, 11:33 AM
Thanks Bill
I am the type of person who leaves the football stuff up to the football people, which I am so glad it is not you. I myself am an irrigation expert and can tell anyone here anything they want to know about irrigation, that being said a lot of you might have trouble reading what I have written and confuse that with irritation, which is fine by me. I do not claim to be the guy who anally analyzes every player so I know what his jock smells like just so I can get it right on draft day. I am a fan, I love the Texans. Do I want to win? YES and I will be behind the Texans and thier decisions every step of the way wether you like it or not because it is not about you at all it is about the TEXANS.

You're funny as hell, JoeTexan! LOL