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House of Pain
04-25-2010, 06:42 PM
I may be way off base, but I'm not too worried about the season for one reason: If Kubiak can't win with all this talent, it's pretty safe to say he's going to be fired.

I would HATE HATE HATE to sit through another season, witnessing the same mistakes that we made last year, but I could do so with the thought of McNair hiring a 'big name' coach at the end of the season.

So...

Either the Kubiak haters are wrong, and we finally get a team worth having the name Houston attached to them or the haters are right and we get a new coach, with a good, young nucleus and a few draft picks to get them over the hump.

JCTexan
04-25-2010, 06:51 PM
I may be way off base, but I'm not too worried about the season for one reason: If Kubiak can't win with all this talent, it's pretty safe to say he's going to be fired.

I would HATE HATE HATE to sit through another season, witnessing the same mistakes that we made last year, but I could do so with the thought of McNair hiring a 'big name' coach at the end of the season.

So...

Either the Kubiak haters are wrong, and we finally get a team worth having the name Houston attached to them or the haters are right and we get a new coach, with a good, young nucleus and a few draft picks to get them over the hump.

If Kubiak is fired at the end of the season it means Houston didn't make the playoffs. It means they would have to find a new coach. It means they would have to find new players to fit the new coaches scheme. It means current players would have to learn a new scheme. Which likely means Houston won't sniff the playoffs until at least year two of the new coach. Having to wait three years for Houston to make the playoffs has me worried. I would prefer them to just go ahead and make the playoffs so Kubiak doesn't have to get fired.

House of Pain
04-25-2010, 07:02 PM
If Kubiak is fired at the end of the season it means Houston didn't make the playoffs. It means they would have to find a new coach. It means they would have to find new players to fit the new coaches scheme. It means current players would have to learn a new scheme. Which likely means Houston won't sniff the playoffs until at least year two of the new coach.

Yes, of course, just like how went Rex Ryan replaced Mangini. They had to wait no seasons to make the playoffs.

JCTexan
04-25-2010, 07:27 PM
Yes, of course, just like how went Rex Ryan replaced Mangini. They had to wait no seasons to make the playoffs.

The Jets improved from a 9-7 team to a 9-7 team. They only got nine wins last because their last two opponents laid down for them. Big improvement there.

Houston runs a zone block system that I believe only one other team in the league runs (Washington). They get their o-line based on that scheme. Depending on the new coach they would have to change their image quite a bit. They would basically have to go from a finesse football team to whatever the new coach wants. Who would you want as the new head coach? If it was someone like Cowher who likes to run a 3-4 D, and likes his O-line to be tough you would have to do an overhaul on both fronts. Changing schemes, getting players who fit that scheme, teaching current players the new playbook etc.. All of it takes time. I would prefer Houston to make the playoffs this year then to worry about all this.

Pantherstang84
04-25-2010, 07:31 PM
The Jets improved from a 9-7 team to a 9-7 team. They only got nine wins last because their last two opponents laid down for them. Big improvement there.

Houston runs a zone block system that I believe only one other team in the league runs (Washington). They get their o-line based on that scheme. Depending on the new coach they would have to change their image quite a bit. They would basically have to go from a finesse football team to whatever the new coach wants. Who would you want as the new head coach? If it was someone like Cowher who likes to run a 3-4 D, and likes his O-line to be tough you would have to do an overhaul on both fronts. Changing schemes, getting players who fit that scheme, teaching current players the new playbook etc.. All of it takes time. I would prefer Houston to make the playoffs this year then to worry about all this.

+1:bravo:

rep

WolverineFan
04-25-2010, 07:32 PM
The Jets improved from a 9-7 team to a 9-7 team. They only got nine wins last because their last two opponents laid down for them. Big improvement there.

Houston runs a zone block system that I believe only one other team in the league runs (Washington). They get their o-line based on that scheme. Depending on the new coach they would have to change their image quite a bit. They would basically have to go from a finesse football team to whatever the new coach wants. Who would you want as the new head coach? If it was someone like Cowher who likes to run a 3-4 D, and likes his O-line to be tough you would have to do an overhaul on both fronts. Changing schemes, getting players who fit that scheme, teaching current players the new playbook etc.. All of it takes time. I would prefer Houston to make the playoffs this year then to worry about all this.

Seattle and Oakland both run it as well and there is another team as well that I cannot think of at the moment.

Changing coaches and schemes would set this team back another 3 years though.

TexCanada
04-25-2010, 07:36 PM
The reason I am willing to give Kubes another shot is definitely not because of his coaching skills, it is because of how he and Rick Smith have built the team to this point. I hope he can learn to be an adequate coach, because a new coach could very well mean a new GM as well since a lot of the "big name" coaches want to do things their way.

GuerillaBlack
04-25-2010, 07:37 PM
If Kubiak is fired at the end of the season it means Houston didn't make the playoffs. It means they would have to find a new coach. It means they would have to find new players to fit the new coaches scheme. It means current players would have to learn a new scheme. Which likely means Houston won't sniff the playoffs until at least year two of the new coach. Having to wait three years for Houston to make the playoffs has me worried. I would prefer them to just go ahead and make the playoffs so Kubiak doesn't have to get fired.

People need to stop with the "if we get a new coach, we won't make the playoffs for x amount of years because of the new scheme". Have you guys not seen all of these rookie head coaches make the playoffs and even go deep in the playoffs? Rex Ryan anyone?

Edit: And that was just last season. The 2008 season would be an even better example here. People need to get off that new coach, wait for playoffs thing. We've seen it isn't true too many times these past couple of years.

JB
04-25-2010, 07:39 PM
People need to stop with the "if we get a new coach, we won't make the playoffs for x amount of years because of the new scheme". Have you guys not seen all of these rookie head coaches make the playoffs and even go deep in the playoffs? Rex Ryan anyone?

See JCTexans second post this thread

GuerillaBlack
04-25-2010, 07:40 PM
See JCTexans second post this thread

I saw it. Check out my last edit.

Pantherstang84
04-25-2010, 07:41 PM
See JCTexans second post this thread

Absolutely! Those who are scroll bar challenged can find it here.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1418406&postcount=4

ChampionTexan
04-25-2010, 07:41 PM
This has immediately vaulted into my list of top 5 stupidest threads ever.

GuerillaBlack
04-25-2010, 07:44 PM
Absolutely! Those who are scroll bar challenged can find it here.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1418406&postcount=4

People act like Rex Ryan is the only example. Explain these coaches then:

Mike Smith (Atlanta)

Sean Payton (New Orleans)

John Harbaugh (Baltimore)

Hell, Mike Tomlin even. I'm probably forgetting other coaches, too.

JB
04-25-2010, 07:46 PM
People act like Rex Ryan is the only example. Explain these coaches then:

Mike Smith (Atlanta)

Sean Payton (New Orleans)

John Harbaugh (Baltimore)

Hell, Mike Tomlin even. I'm probably forgetting other coaches, too.

"Totally understand your point. But you need to remember that none of the above coaches had to overcome 4 years of Casserly/Capers

Pantherstang84
04-25-2010, 07:49 PM
People act like Rex Ryan is the only example. Explain these coaches then:

Mike Smith (Atlanta)

Sean Payton (New Orleans)

John Harbaugh (Baltimore)

Hell, Mike Tomlin even. I'm probably forgetting other coaches, too.

Every time someone mentions Rex Ryan as the miracle worker, I will say Curtis Painter. Want to use Sean Payton as an example? Fine. I have no problem with that. If the Jets last 2 regular season opponents had shown up, the Jets would have been 8-8 at best and sitting home. I say again, Curtis Painter!

House of Pain
04-25-2010, 07:50 PM
All I'm trying to say is that I am not giving up on this season, or think that Kubes can't get the job done. What I am saying is IF THEY CAN'T GET IT DONE, then another coach will inherit a good deal of talent, and should have a quicker turnaround than what Kubiak took over.

GuerillaBlack
04-25-2010, 07:50 PM
"Totally understand your point. But you need to remember that none of the above coaches had to overcome 4 years of Casserly/Capers

Easy excuse. ;)

Every time someone mentions Rex Ryan as the miracle worker, I will say Curtis Painter. Want to use Sean Payton as an example? Fine. I have no problem with that. If the Jets last 2 regular season opponents had shown up, the Jets would have been 8-8 at best and sitting home. I say again, Curtis Painter!

If that's the case, then how did the Jets make it to the AFC Championship Game?

House of Pain
04-25-2010, 07:52 PM
This has immediately vaulted into my list of top 5 stupidest threads ever.

I can arrange to send you a print out of it with my autograph if you'd like?

Pantherstang84
04-25-2010, 07:54 PM
Easy excuse. ;)



If that's the case, then how did the Jets make it to the AFC Championship Game?

The Bengals laid down the last game of the season too thinking they would come back next week with rested players and beat the Jets in the rematch. Go ask Marvin Lewis how well that strategy worked out.

The point is, no Curtis Painter and the Jets would have finished the regular season 8-8 at best and would have been watching the playoffs at home.

JB
04-25-2010, 07:56 PM
Easy excuse. ;)



If that's the case, then how did the Jets make it to the AFC Championship Game?


Excuse or reason is POV

Jets made the AFCCG because of their defense and running game, most of which was in place before Ryan took over.

He added a couple of players and his scheme from Baltimore and it worked wonders. With the #1 running game (how much of that was Ryan's?) and a top defense (this I will credit Ryan's with) it is not that surprising. I submit that if Kubiak had came to a team with a top 5 defense, and only needed to install a couple of players (Schaub & Brown?) then the Texans would have been in the playoffs in 2007 at the latest.

GuerillaBlack
04-25-2010, 07:59 PM
The Bengals laid down the last game of the season too thinking they would come back next week with rested players and beat the Jets in the rematch. Go ask Marvin Lewis how well that strategy worked out.

The point is, no Curtis Painter and the Jets would have finished the regular season 8-8 at best and would have been watching the playoffs at home.

What does the Bengals laying down the last week of the season have anything to do with the Jets making it to the AFC Championship? Getting into the playoffs? Sure, but not the AFC Championship. Done with this thread though, as it's just a remake of the Fire Kubiak thread.

Pantherstang84
04-25-2010, 08:05 PM
What does the Bengals laying down the last week of the season have anything to do with the Jets making it to the AFC Championship? Getting into the playoffs? Sure, but not the AFC Championship.

The point being the Jets did not make the playoffs on their own. They had help. You have already lost the point but won't concede so I will not twist the knife here. But to make it to the AFC Championship game you have to make the playoffs. The Jets back doored their way in. It was not some miracle that Rex Ryan pulled. He got lucky.

--... ...--

The Pencil Neck
04-26-2010, 01:43 AM
People act like Rex Ryan is the only example. Explain these coaches then:

Mike Smith (Atlanta)

Sean Payton (New Orleans)

John Harbaugh (Baltimore)

Hell, Mike Tomlin even. I'm probably forgetting other coaches, too.

1. Mike Smith - He did a great job. He was only able to get into the playoffs 1 year and then was out the next, but he did do a great job.

2. Sean Payton - Took over a team that was already fairly solid. They had seriously underperformed the previous year because of Hurricane Katrina.

3. John Harbaugh - Took over a team that already had a great defense in place and had been... what... 13-3 two years before and had an uncharacteristic bad defensive year the year before (and that cost Billick his job.)

4. Mike Tomlin - Took over a team that had won the SB two years before.

I worked up the numbers for a 19 year span (1990-2009, this doesn't include last year) and teams that had a record between 7-9 to 9-7 and changed their coaches usually did worse the next year. 21 teams got worse, 15 teams got better and 2 stayed the same.

Of those teams that got better, some of them were peculiar situations. Like Mike Tomlin taking over the 8-8 Steelers from Cowher, like Cowher taking over for Noll, like Wade Phillips taking over the team that Parcells built, etc.

Bringing in a new coach is not a sure-fire way to bring a winner to Houston. It's a move that will probably make us worse.

Carr Bombed
04-26-2010, 01:50 AM
1. Mike Smith - He did a great job. He was only able to get into the playoffs 1 year and then was out the next, but he did do a great job.

2. Sean Payton - Took over a team that was already fairly solid. They had seriously underperformed the previous year because of Hurricane Katrina.

3. John Harbaugh - Took over a team that already had a great defense in place and had been... what... 13-3 two years before and had an uncharacteristic bad defensive year the year before (and that cost Billick his job.)

4. Mike Tomlin - Took over a team that had won the SB two years before.

I worked up the numbers for a 19 year span (1990-2009, this doesn't include last year) and teams that had a record between 7-9 to 9-7 and changed their coaches usually did worse the next year. 21 teams got worse, 15 teams got better and 2 stayed the same.

Of those teams that got better, some of them were peculiar situations. Like Mike Tomlin taking over the 8-8 Steelers from Cowher, like Cowher taking over for Noll, like Wade Phillips taking over the team that Parcells built, etc.

Bringing in a new coach is not a sure-fire way to bring a winner to Houston. It's a move that will probably make us worse.

I don't care what anybody says....just like last season, if Gary Kubiak was fired or is fired after this year I want Jon Gruden on our sidelines. We'll be able to keep the same offense and he'll stick his boot up someone's ass.

Now key the "he won a SB with a team another coach built smack" while he was playing against the team in that same SB that HE BUILT!

With Gruden they'll be little personnel turnover...little system adjustment to the strongest parts of our team, but a MUCH NEEDED ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT.

The Pencil Neck
04-26-2010, 01:52 AM
I don't care what anybody says....just like last season, if Gary Kubiak was fired or is fired after this year I want Jon Gruden on our sidelines. We'll be able to keep the same offense and he'll stick his boot up someone's ass.

Now key the "he won a SB with a team another coach built smack" while he was playing against the team in that same SB that HE BUILT!

With Gruden they'll be little personnel turnover...little system adjustment to the strongest parts of our team, but a MUCH NEEDED ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT.

How many Super Bowl winning coaches have gone to another team and won a Super Bowl?

How many Super Bowl winning coaches have gone to another team and not won a Super Bowl?

pbat488
04-26-2010, 02:07 AM
If Kubiak is fired at the end of the season it means Houston didn't make the playoffs.

I don't think this is the case. If we have a year where we clearly regress in specific areas on our team and end up in the 4-12 to 6-10 range, I can see his seat getting very, very hot. However, I think McNair has matured with the franchise and has realized that the way we are going about things is the way perennial winners are built.

I believe Kubiak has until the end of the 2011 season to get into the playoffs unless we have a complete meltdown this year and have 3 wins or less.

Carr Bombed
04-26-2010, 02:12 AM
How many Super Bowl winning coaches have gone to another team and won a Super Bowl?

How many Super Bowl winning coaches have gone to another team and not won a Super Bowl?

???? Who cares..(how many superbowls did the Saints or Cardinals play in before the last few years..I don't care about that) Hell how many coaches have won a SB period? It doesn't happen that often which is the reason why you don't have coaches bouncing around and winning them for other teams..a good coach is a good coach. Teams don't tend to let go of coaches who win SBs and Jon Gruden has a good track record with every team he's been at and is still young and hungry. Plus he fits most of our personel...it's a no brainer. Why blow up what's working with this team. Gruden would allow us to keep the good things about our team together while instilling attitude to the other parts that are slacking.

JCTexan
04-26-2010, 02:24 AM
I don't think this is the case. If we have a year where we clearly regress in specific areas on our team and end up in the 4-12 to 6-10 range, I can see his seat getting very, very hot. However, I think McNair has matured with the franchise and has realized that the way we are going about things is the way perennial winners are built.

I believe Kubiak has until the end of the 2011 season to get into the playoffs unless we have a complete meltdown this year and have 3 wins or less.

What's not the case? You might need to read that statement again. "If Kubiak is fired at the end of the season it means Houston didn't make the playoffs." There is no way Houston fires Kubiak if the team makes the playoffs. I would be more worried if Houston didn't make the playoffs than if they did was the point I was trying to make.

pbat488
04-26-2010, 02:35 AM
What's not the case? You might need to read that statement again. "If Kubiak is fired at the end of the season it means Houston didn't make the playoffs." There is no way Houston fires Kubiak if the team makes the playoffs. I would be more worried if Houston didn't make the playoffs than if they did was the point I was trying to make.

I understand what you are saying. I, however, disagreed with your blanket statement that effectively says Kubiak is gone unless we go to the playoffs. I then responded by saying even if we don't make the playoffs, as long as we don't implode and regress to the point of a ~3-4 win season, then I think Kubiak's job is safe till the end of the 2011 season.

JCTexan
04-26-2010, 03:05 AM
I understand what you are saying. I, however, disagreed with your blanket statement that effectively says Kubiak is gone unless we go to the playoffs. I then responded by saying even if we don't make the playoffs, as long as we don't implode and regress to the point of a ~3-4 win season, then I think Kubiak's job is safe till the end of the 2011 season.

I never once said Kubiak would be fired if they didn't make the playoffs. I said:
If Kubiak is fired at the end of the season it means Houston didn't make the playoffs.

Is there some sort of hidden code in that statement that I'm not quite getting?

pbat488
04-26-2010, 03:21 AM
Is there some sort of hidden code in that statement that I'm not quite getting?

No, there isn't some sort of hidden code. You posted a blanket statement that wasn't very defined and I interpreted it and then responded to it as I felt was appropriate.

Either way, our bickering over semantics doesn't add anything to this thread, so if you feel the need to respond, please feel free to send me a PM so others don't have to sift through more of our posts that add nothing to the thread.

Carr Bombed
04-26-2010, 03:32 AM
I never once said Kubiak would be fired if they didn't make the playoffs. I said:


Is there some sort of hidden code in that statement that I'm not quite getting?

Are you a politician or what......

That's like saying..

I never once said "someone" would be fired if they didn't pass the drug test"......I said "If someone is fired at the end of the quarterly drug test, it means they didn't pass the random drug test."

Sorry, but what are you talking about? You insinuated that unless Kubiak makes the playoffs he's gone (BTW, I agree with that) and then got onto someone for thinking that's what you said.

buddyboy
04-26-2010, 04:16 AM
Are you a politician or what......

That's like saying..

I never once said "someone" would be fired if they didn't pass the drug test"......I said "If someone is fired at the end of the quarterly drug test, it means they didn't pass the random drug test."

Sorry, but what are you talking about? You insinuated that unless Kubiak makes the playoffs he's gone (BTW, I agree with that) and then got onto someone for thinking that's what you said.

Sorry, I disagree. Saying that Kubiak will be fired if we don't make it to playoffs is COMPLETELY different than saying if Kubiak makes playoffs he won't be fired, which is what JC said (although, in a different wording).

thunderkyss
04-26-2010, 09:38 AM
People act like Rex Ryan is the only example. Explain these coaches then:

Mike Smith (Atlanta)

Sean Payton (New Orleans)

John Harbaugh (Baltimore)

Hell, Mike Tomlin even. I'm probably forgetting other coaches, too.

I agree that Rex Ryan is a bad example. From this list, I don't think Mike Smith or Mike Tomlin are good examples either. I honestly don't think either team is as good as they were when those coaches took over. IMHO, those coaches have more to worry about that Kubiak does.

I think Payton and Harbough are doing excellent jobs building their teams, (Rex Ryan is too, I just don't think '09 was all that successful). Kubiak is as well. We are as talented now, IMHO as the Saints were when Payton took over, arguably more talented on both sides of the ball.

I don't believe we'll be waiting for this team to make the play-offs, if McNair (& Smith) do a good job of finding the right coach.

thunderkyss
04-26-2010, 09:44 AM
All I'm trying to say is that I am not giving up on this season, or think that Kubes can't get the job done. What I am saying is IF THEY CAN'T GET IT DONE, then another coach will inherit a good deal of talent, and should have a quicker turnaround than what Kubiak took over.

I think you need to be a little more specific about what you expect Kubiak to do. We're either a good football team, or we're not. We either make the most of our situation, or we don't.

If I'm McNair, and I'm thinking this is the season, Kubiak would still be in trouble if we got into the play-offs the way the Jets did last year.

If we go 11-5, competed with the best teams in the league, never lost more than 2 games in a row, but missed the play-offs, Kubiak is safe.

thunderkyss
04-26-2010, 10:26 AM
Why blow up what's working with this team. Gruden would allow us to keep the good things about our team together while instilling attitude to the other parts that are slacking.

I'll be fine with Gruden, as long as he's learned from his mistakes. Just like another franchise will be fine with Kubiak as long as they feel he's learned from his mistakes.

I really don't understand why some fans feel as though Kubiak has been a monumental failure. We haven't made the play-offs in Kubiak's tenure, but everything else points to real, tangible improvements all over this team. Maybe we underperformed last year, but that is arguable. Maybe our F.O. made some bone headed decisions... poor SS options to begin the season, hell no to Mike Bell and Cedric Benson, pass on Larry Johnson when we knew we were hurting, and what appears to be non-affective handling of the place kicking situation.

Okay, maybe I'm not making a good argument here. But it doesn't matter. I think we're going to blow the doors off the NFL in 2010, and all this will be moot.


:slapfight:

record
04-26-2010, 10:30 AM
Basically the OP is saying that if the Texans stink it up this season, he isn't worried b/c it will means Kubiak will be fired. We will then be under a new regime that will be able to turn it around quicker than the four years Kubiak has had so far.

That's kinda like saying I'm not worried about my house being blown down b/c if it gets destroyed I will just build another one. The problems with that are A) you had to watch and live through your house/team being destroyed, B) there is no guarantee the next house/team you build will be better than your current one and C) there is a various/unknown period of time involved with rebuilding your house/team. No person or team that has ever gone through this had any worries throughout the entire process, right? Don't worry, be happy, right?

Geeez.....I'm more worried now then when this thread started.

Texan_Bill
04-26-2010, 10:33 AM
http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/awjeeznotthisshitagain.jpg

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2010, 10:41 AM
I may be way off base, but I'm not too worried about the season for one reason: If Kubiak can't win with all this talent, it's pretty safe to say he's going to be fired.

I would HATE HATE HATE to sit through another season, witnessing the same mistakes that we made last year, but I could do so with the thought of McNair hiring a 'big name' coach at the end of the season.

So...

Either the Kubiak haters are wrong, and we finally get a team worth having the name Houston attached to them or the haters are right and we get a new coach, with a good, young nucleus and a few draft picks to get them over the hump.

I agree with 100% of what you said and I hope Kubiak proves the 'haters' wrong, but if we regress they need to bring someone in who has PROVEN that they can get a team over the hump.

I will say that, other than a few WTFs last year, we did have a team that was worthy of the name Houston attached to them last year. Prolific offense with a defense that trended upwards over the course of the season. I just want the mistakes and lack of preparation/adjustments to end this year. That is what killed us last year, and that points to the coach.

thunderkyss
04-26-2010, 10:48 AM
That's kinda like saying I'm not worried about my house being blown down b/c if it gets destroyed I will just build another one.

I think it's more like saying we'll fire our builder after 4 years of meticulous work, building an outstanding foundation, building a perfect frame, and capping it off with a perfect roof, because a piece of trim was crooked, or the shower curtain didn't match the decor... or he's 6 months behind schedule.

The next guy will come in, finish the job, and build a fabulous house. Much faster than Kubiak.

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2010, 10:48 AM
The Jets improved from a 9-7 team to a 9-7 team. They only got nine wins last because their last two opponents laid down for them. Big improvement there.

Houston runs a zone block system that I believe only one other team in the league runs (Washington). They get their o-line based on that scheme. Depending on the new coach they would have to change their image quite a bit. They would basically have to go from a finesse football team to whatever the new coach wants. Who would you want as the new head coach? If it was someone like Cowher who likes to run a 3-4 D, and likes his O-line to be tough you would have to do an overhaul on both fronts. Changing schemes, getting players who fit that scheme, teaching current players the new playbook etc.. All of it takes time. I would prefer Houston to make the playoffs this year then to worry about all this.

The Jets were not 9-7 last year. They were 11-8 and just one good half away from being in the Super Bowl with a rookie QB and a rookie head coach. They also had lots of turnover on their roster and added players in the middle of the season to improve. The Jets won two road playoff games and you can't diminish that fact. That is quality football and something we would be very proud of.

i know its an inconvenient truth, but it doesnt take 3+ years for a new head coach to turn things around.

All it takes is a good coach who can inspire his players and an organization that is committed to winning a championship. The organization claims it is committed, but they need to show us that and not just say it.

To act like hiring Cowher after a bad season is going to set us back as an organization is crazy talk. I hope it doesn't happen, because that will mean we had a disappointing season, but if we do have a disappointing season, we need to change things because 5 years is enough time. If 5 years isn't enough, when is it enough? I don't think its out of line or 'hating' to want to see some things change if what is going on isn't working.

steelbtexan
04-26-2010, 11:16 AM
If the Texans dont make the playoffs next year how many more years is the if we fire Kubes we wont make the playoffs for 3 yrs?

I lookk at it like this, if Mcair had fired Kubes after this year then in 2 yrs they would probably be in the playoffs. If they dont make the playoffs this year. Are the koolaid drinkers going to be willing to pull the plug?

If they aren't when will they be willing to pull the plug? You can use the 3 yr excuse thing every year they dont make the playoffs.

How about the Texans make the playoffs 3 out of 4 yrs. But you can tell that they will never win a SB with Kubes as head coach. When do you pull the plug?

TexCanada
04-26-2010, 11:22 AM
If the Texans dont make the playoffs next year how many more years is the if we fire Kubes we wont make the playoffs for 3 yrs?

I lookk at it like this, if Mcair had fired Kubes after this year then in 2 yrs they would probably be in the playoffs. If they dont make the playoffs this year. Are the koolaid drinkers going to be willing to pull the plug?

If they aren't when will they be willing to pull the plug? You can use the 3 yr excuse thing every year they dont make the playoffs.

How about the Texans make the playoffs 3 out of 4 yrs. But you can tell that they will never win a SB with Kubes as head coach. When do you pull the plug?

How can you possibly say that? Bringing in a new coach does NOT necessarily mean improvement, it only means change. Change can be for the better or the worse.

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2010, 11:27 AM
If the Texans dont make the playoffs next year how many more years is the if we fire Kubes we wont make the playoffs for 3 yrs?

I lookk at it like this, if Mcair had fired Kubes after this year then in 2 yrs they would probably be in the playoffs. If they dont make the playoffs this year. Are the koolaid drinkers going to be willing to pull the plug?

If they aren't when will they be willing to pull the plug? You can use the 3 yr excuse thing every year they dont make the playoffs.

How about the Texans make the playoffs 3 out of 4 yrs. But you can tell that they will never win a SB with Kubes as head coach. When do you pull the plug?

I would have no problem with making the playoffs 3 out of 4 years even without a SB win. If a coach gets them to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years and doesn't get embarrassed and at least gets a playoff win or two, I don't think you can fire them. now if its first round playoff berth and out or if every berth was wild card, maybe you look at a change but I think most of us fans, even some of the more demanding, would be happy with playoffs 75% of the time.

ObsiWan
04-26-2010, 11:37 AM
I would have no problem with making the playoffs 3 out of 4 years even without a SB win. If a coach gets them to the playoffs 3 out of 4 years and doesn't get embarrassed and at least gets a playoff win or two, I don't think you can fire them. now if its first round playoff berth and out or if every berth was wild card, maybe you look at a change but I think most of us fans, even some of the more demanding, would be happy with playoffs 75% of the time.

ooooooh yes they can.
Signed, Tony Dungy

JB
04-26-2010, 11:39 AM
ooooooh yes they can.
Signed, Tony Dungy

I agree

Signed, Marty Schottenheimer...


... Me Too!

Signed Bum Phillips

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2010, 11:42 AM
ooooooh yes they can.
Signed, Tony Dungy

oh, i am aware that you can, but I was talking about it pertaining to Kubiak.

If Kubiak was to make the playoffs 3 of the next 4 years and not win a super bowl but win a playoff game or 2 and not get embarassed, I don't think you could fire him.

If we got to the playoffs 3 of the next 4 years, you would be talking to one happy fan, thats for sure.

The Pencil Neck
04-26-2010, 11:44 AM
???? Who cares..(how many superbowls did the Saints or Cardinals play in before the last few years..I don't care about that) Hell how many coaches have won a SB period? It doesn't happen that often which is the reason why you don't have coaches bouncing around and winning them for other teams..a good coach is a good coach. Teams don't tend to let go of coaches who win SBs and Jon Gruden has a good track record with every team he's been at and is still young and hungry. Plus he fits most of our personel...it's a no brainer. Why blow up what's working with this team. Gruden would allow us to keep the good things about our team together while instilling attitude to the other parts that are slacking.

I care. I want a Super Bowl. No coach has ever won a Super Bowl with two teams.

You can talk all about how great a coach someone is but at its heart, the strategy you're talking about has never worked. Everyone thinks "Oh, this guy won a SB. He must be a great coach. If we get him, we're that much closer to a SB ourselves." The problem is, that it's just not true.

1. Vince Lombardi - Finished with the Redskins, 1 not so great year
2. Hank Stram - Went on to 2 bad seasons with the Saints
3. Don McCafferty - Went to the Lions and finished 6-7-1
4. Tom Flores - Went on to 3 bad years with the Seahawks after winning 2 SBs with the Raiders
5. Mike Ditka - Went on to 3 bad years with the Saints
6. Bill Parcells - Took the Pats to the SB but lost, took the Jets to the AFC Championship, and the Cowboys to the playoffs
7. George Seifert - 3 not so great years with the Panthers
8. Jimmy Johnson - A few playoff appearances with the Dolphins
9. Mike Holmgren - 10 years at the Seahawks and made it to the SB once but it took a long time
10. Dick Vermeil - Some good years with the Chiefs

I don't want Gruden and I don't want Cowher and I don't want Dungy. I think they've got fail written all over them. If we're going to switch coaches (which I think is a huge mistake), then I want either:
1. some great coordinator/assistant coach who's a rookie HC and I want to give him a few years to get everything together or
2. a coach who got to a SB with another team and lost or
3. a coach who built a powerful team but didn't make it to the SB

Because THOSE are the coaches that win SBs. Not retreads.

ObsiWan
04-26-2010, 12:33 PM
Easy excuse. ;)



If that's the case, then how did the Jets make it to the AFC Championship Game?

San Diego played stupid. They kept trying to run LT and make him a hero. 10 penalties for 87 yds and drive-killing turnovers didn't help them either. Once again, Norv Turner didn't get it done.

It urks me terribly when I think that it should have been us, if the Colts & Bengals hadn't laid down during the last two weeks of the season.

thunderkyss
04-26-2010, 12:41 PM
San Diego played stupid. They kept trying to run LT and make him a hero. 10 penalties for 87 yds and drive-killing turnovers didn't help them either. Once again, Norv Turner didn't get it done.

It urks me terribly when I think that it should have been us, if the Colts & Bengals hadn't laid down during the last two weeks of the season.

It's a moot point, don't bother arguing. The Jets did not make the play-offs because they were a better team in '09 than they were in '08, & if they were, their record did not show it.

If we made it, we might have been in the Super Bowl, who knows?

ObsiWan
04-26-2010, 12:57 PM
I care. I want a Super Bowl. No coach has ever won a Super Bowl with two teams.

You can talk all about how great a coach someone is but at its heart, the strategy you're talking about has never worked. Everyone thinks "Oh, this guy won a SB. He must be a great coach. If we get him, we're that much closer to a SB ourselves." The problem is, that it's just not true.

1. Vince Lombardi - Finished with the Redskins, 1 not so great year
2. Hank Stram - Went on to 2 bad seasons with the Saints
3. Don McCafferty - Went to the Lions and finished 6-7-1
4. Tom Flores - Went on to 3 bad years with the Seahawks after winning 2 SBs with the Raiders
5. Mike Ditka - Went on to 3 bad years with the Saints
6. Bill Parcells - Took the Pats to the SB but lost, took the Jets to the AFC Championship, and the Cowboys to the playoffs
7. George Seifert - 3 not so great years with the Panthers
8. Jimmy Johnson - A few playoff appearances with the Dolphins
9. Mike Holmgren - 10 years at the Seahawks and made it to the SB once but it took a long time
10. Dick Vermeil - Some good years with the Chiefs

I don't want Gruden and I don't want Cowher and I don't want Dungy. I think they've got fail written all over them. If we're going to switch coaches (which I think is a huge mistake), then I want either:
1. some great coordinator/assistant coach who's a rookie HC and I want to give him a few years to get everything together or
2. a coach who got to a SB with another team and lost or
3. a coach who built a powerful team but didn't make it to the SB

Because THOSE are the coaches that win SBs. Not retreads.

I like how you think.
"Must Spread Rep"
:(

and when you think about it, is there ANYONE who won Super Bowls with two different teams? If there is, I'll bet it's a real short list.

ObsiWan
04-26-2010, 01:08 PM
???? Who cares..(how many superbowls did the Saints or Cardinals play in before the last few years..I don't care about that) Hell how many coaches have won a SB period? It doesn't happen that often which is the reason why you don't have coaches bouncing around and winning them for other teams..a good coach is a good coach. Teams don't tend to let go of coaches who win SBs and Jon Gruden has a good track record with every team he's been at and is still young and hungry. Plus he fits most of our personel...it's a no brainer. Why blow up what's working with this team. Gruden would allow us to keep the good things about our team together while instilling attitude to the other parts that are slacking.

Yeah, just be prepared to have 15 QBs on the roster instead of 7 TEs.
:D

bckey
04-26-2010, 01:08 PM
It urks me terribly when I think that it should have been us, if the Colts & Bengals hadn't laid down during the last two weeks of the season.

I know you already know this but the Texans blew their season with the 4 division losses in a row to go along with an easy schedule. Throw in that the Patriots didn't need the final game. They didn't lay down like Indy and Cincy but they also didn't play their best game like they would have if it meant win or go home. So you really can't say it should have been us imho. The Texans got exactly what they deserved, an early offseason.

ObsiWan
04-26-2010, 01:15 PM
http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/awjeeznotthisshitagain.jpg

Perfect!!
:lol:
"must spread rep"
dammit!

ObsiWan
04-26-2010, 01:17 PM
I know you already know this but the Texans blew their season with the 4 division losses in a row to go along with an easy schedule. Throw in that the Patriots didn't need the final game. They didn't lay down like Indy and Cincy but they also didn't play their best game like they would have if it meant win or go home. So you really can't say it should have been us imho. The Texans got exactly what they deserved, an early offseason.

Yeah, it is ESPECIALLY URKSOME to think we lost 7 games and all but two were in the division. I'm a card-carrying Sunshine Clubber and that still pisses me off.

JCTexan
04-26-2010, 01:57 PM
Are you a politician or what......

That's like saying..

I never once said "someone" would be fired if they didn't pass the drug test"......I said "If someone is fired at the end of the quarterly drug test, it means they didn't pass the random drug test."

Sorry, but what are you talking about? You insinuated that unless Kubiak makes the playoffs he's gone (BTW, I agree with that) and then got onto someone for thinking that's what you said.

No, I'm not a politician. I don't even believe with what you think I said. I don't believe Kubiak is fired no matter what if Houston doesn't make the playoffs. I believe if he's fired it means that Houston wasn't in the playoffs. Do you think there is any chance that Mcnair would fire Kubiak if Houston made the playoffs for the first time?

The Jets were not 9-7 last year. They were 11-8 and just one good half away from being in the Super Bowl with a rookie QB and a rookie head coach. They also had lots of turnover on their roster and added players in the middle of the season to improve. The Jets won two road playoff games and you can't diminish that fact. That is quality football and something we would be very proud of.

i know its an inconvenient truth, but it doesnt take 3+ years for a new head coach to turn things around.

All it takes is a good coach who can inspire his players and an organization that is committed to winning a championship. The organization claims it is committed, but they need to show us that and not just say it.

To act like hiring Cowher after a bad season is going to set us back as an organization is crazy talk. I hope it doesn't happen, because that will mean we had a disappointing season, but if we do have a disappointing season, we need to change things because 5 years is enough time. If 5 years isn't enough, when is it enough? I don't think its out of line or 'hating' to want to see some things change if what is going on isn't working.

I think Cowher would do an excellent job here in Houston. I personally like his tough mentality. I just think changing the image of the team from a finesse team to a tough one would take at least year two of the new regime to make the playoffs, which would be three years down the line. I don't want to have to wait three years when I expect them to make the playoffs this year.

Sorry, I disagree. Saying that Kubiak will be fired if we don't make it to playoffs is COMPLETELY different than saying if Kubiak makes playoffs he won't be fired, which is what JC said (although, in a different wording).

Exactly. I've been confused with their interpretation of what I said.

Norg
04-26-2010, 02:31 PM
I like keeping the same coach for a long time well this coach

Look at what Jack del rio jags did to us last year beat us twice

I wonder why the jags have never pulled the plug on Jack or Jeff fisher ?????

The Pencil Neck
04-26-2010, 02:50 PM
I like how you think.
"Must Spread Rep"
:(

and when you think about it, is there ANYONE who won Super Bowls with two different teams? If there is, I'll bet it's a real short list.

My list was everyone who had won a Super Bowl and then gone on to another team.

So.

No. No one has won a SB with two different teams.