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View Full Version : Trindon Holliday KR LSU 6th round selection


ArlingtonTexan
04-24-2010, 02:56 PM
speed and more speed,

m5kwatts
04-24-2010, 02:58 PM
I LOVED watching this kid at LSU, I would love to see his speed translate to returns in the NFL and see him make the team.

Athlon
04-24-2010, 02:59 PM
Sweet pick. This guy has great speed.

b0ng
04-24-2010, 03:00 PM
I heard from this board we are going 6-10 this year due to our bad drafting. Confirm/deny?

pbat488
04-24-2010, 03:03 PM
hey, nailed this pick 2 weeks ago... the only one I came close on!

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1399545&postcount=9

:kitten:

Hoss
04-24-2010, 03:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psWYfO7rp9A
damn...

valleytexfan
04-24-2010, 03:04 PM
I've got a neeeeeeed foooooorrr speeeeeeed!

This kid is blazing. If he could become our kickoff returner and play 4-6 offensive plays a game, I love it.

Maddict5
04-24-2010, 03:05 PM
running away from cops fast

stingray
04-24-2010, 03:05 PM
Check this video out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzshbAHF8Z8

kiwitexansfan
04-24-2010, 03:08 PM
Olympic fast.

10 seconds flat in the 100m.

treduke
04-24-2010, 03:11 PM
maybe jj can now focus more on becoming a better wr!
love the pick:bender:

TheRealJoker
04-24-2010, 03:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Q0vlN6Pe8

mariowillshine15
04-24-2010, 03:15 PM
Love this pick. Guy is fast as all get out.

Jacoby can now focus on being a full-time playmaker while defenders look for Holliday and realize he's already in the endzone!

TheRealJoker
04-24-2010, 03:19 PM
Anyone think he can be KR and PR?

TexansMVP
04-24-2010, 03:21 PM
Looks like his speed is the real deal.

During the 2010 NFL Combine, ESPN reported that he ran a 4.22, which would have beaten Chris Johnson's NFL record fastest time of 4.24. However, NFL.com said he did not break the records, listing Holliday's times at 4.27 and 4.32.

He demonstrated his sprinting ability in the 100-meter dash at the 2007 USA Outdoor Track and Field Championships, where he recorded 10.07 seconds in the final Ė ahead of Walter Dix and second only to Tyson Gay. This qualified him for the 2007 World Championships in Athletics but he opted to not compete, preferring to begin the football season with the LSU Tigers. He continued to race, however, and reached the semi-finals in the 100 m at the 2008 United States Olympic Trials the following year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trindon_Holliday

The Pencil Neck
04-24-2010, 03:21 PM
Anyone think he can be KR and PR?

I think that's the plan.

Hoss
04-24-2010, 03:23 PM
wrong thread

bckey
04-24-2010, 03:26 PM
Maybe he is going to be our Darren Sproles. Special teams should be exciting this year.

JWarren14
04-24-2010, 03:30 PM
Thank God! Andre Davis was weaaak last year on KR.

Get him in some space and let him do his thing.

GuerillaBlack
04-24-2010, 03:32 PM
maybe jj can now focus more on becoming a better wr!
love the pick:bender:

What I was thinking. This can give Jacoby rest during games, as he doesn't have to do KR/PR. Hell, Andre Davis can stop doing KR, too. Let Holliday do both full time, with a couple of offensive plays here and there.

drewmar74
04-24-2010, 03:33 PM
I was stoked when I saw this pick. He is sooooo fast - we're huge LSU fans here at the house (wife and I both graduated from there). We were always geeked when this kid was back to field a kick because you never knew when he was going to get that corner and be G-O-N-E gone.

Bubbajwp
04-24-2010, 03:35 PM
Wow this guy is fast.

rmartin65
04-24-2010, 03:35 PM
I am really excited about this pick. The 6th round was a very good one, if only the 4th and 5th were like this. Both picks get As from me.

Brisco_County
04-24-2010, 03:46 PM
I love this pick. Our special teams just became even more dangerous.

H.C.4100-Bloc
04-24-2010, 03:48 PM
Good pick

texansdrummer
04-24-2010, 03:53 PM
Wow. He's pretty tiny - but if nobody gets a hand on him, size is irrelevant.

TheRealJoker
04-24-2010, 04:02 PM
Wow. He's pretty tiny - but if nobody gets a hand on him, size is irrelevant.

They won't be able to find him when he's returning!!!

Mailman
04-24-2010, 04:05 PM
Wow. He's pretty tiny - but if nobody gets a hand on him, size is irrelevant.

Size is not that big of a deal for a KR/PR. If he was tough enough to return kicks and punts, catch pass, and run the football in the SEC, he's tough enough to play in the NFL.

Esoom
04-24-2010, 04:06 PM
Very excited about this pick. Should be a Special Teams monster.

Dishman
04-24-2010, 04:21 PM
Hes fast, we've established that. Can he secure and hold on to the football?

TheRealJoker
04-24-2010, 04:24 PM
Hes fast, we've established that. Can he secure and hold on to the football?

It seems that he secures the football incredibly fast. While running fast he also manages to hold on to the football from what i've seen.

rmartin65
04-24-2010, 04:27 PM
I dont remember a lot of fumbles while scouting him. It should be ok.

Dishman
04-24-2010, 04:29 PM
It seems that he secures the football incredibly fast. While running fast he also manages to hold on to the football from what i've seen.

Don't shoot the messenger. Just dog tired of seeing Texans lay the ball on the ground whether it be Slaton or Jacoby Jones or whomever. Sure Holliday is quick, but he's also slight of build. Will that result in him getting gashed by opposing special teams and coughing up the ball? Not trying to be a Jack-ass, just trying to pose a question about his ability to hold onto the ball on returns, etc.

Dishman
04-24-2010, 04:30 PM
I dont remember a lot of fumbles while scouting him. It should be ok.


Thank you :)

sometexansfan
04-24-2010, 04:30 PM
Goodbye to Andre Davis perhaps?

jaayteetx
04-24-2010, 04:34 PM
Goodbye to Andre Davis perhaps?

What I was thinking.

Spled
04-24-2010, 04:39 PM
This guy will be perfect for gadget plays and reverses and so on. He has Chris Johnson speed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSxNbRqqSgQ&feature=related

V3rm0nt3r
04-24-2010, 04:39 PM
What I was thinking.

me too. he hasn't produced enough as a WR to keep his inflated contract. early prediction for next years roster.

WR-AJ Walter JJ DA
TE- OD, our 6 other TE's... yeah that'll do.

LikeMike
04-24-2010, 04:41 PM
At the very least he will add some excitement to the Texans, and hopefully provide us with good field position throughout the season. I hope we can include him in the offense with some gadget plays and perhaps as a slot receiver...

Hagar
04-24-2010, 04:44 PM
I watched a bunch of LSU games and this kid is a competitor! Nice pickup.

JJ, look over your shoulder. This kid is coming up hard and fast.

Nawzer
04-24-2010, 04:57 PM
Probably my favorite pick of the draft. This guy is electric. I hope we can use him out of the backfield sometime this season. He can be matchup nightmare for other teams. Let's hope he can pick up the offense fast because he's a difference maker type of player.

Hardcore Texan
04-24-2010, 05:10 PM
maybe jj can now focus more on becoming a better wr!
love the pick:bender:

I think that's the plan.

I am guessing JJ still does the PR duties. Just guessing though.

Probably my favorite pick of the draft. This guy is electric. I hope we can use him out of the backfield sometime this season. He can be matchup nightmare for other teams. Let's hope he can pick up the offense fast because he's a difference maker type of player.

The more I find out about him the more I agree.

TimeKiller
04-24-2010, 05:11 PM
Just let me say this:

I EXPECT Andre Davis to be cut. He filled in admirably that one year. He had a couple good returns. But he is awful, awful, bad, awful, bad, bad, bad, bad, awful, crappy, bad, awful at returning kicks. AJ, KW, JJ, DA, TH wr depth in a box.

JB
04-24-2010, 05:12 PM
I am guessing JJ still does the PR duties. Just guessing though.

Nope, Kubiak said Holliday will be the PR/KR and may have additional role down the line. But he will be our PR/KR

Hardcore Texan
04-24-2010, 05:13 PM
Nope, Kubiak said Holliday will be the PR/KR and may have additional role down the line. But he will be our PR/KR

Good to know, I haven't heard that, thanks!

MojoMan
04-24-2010, 05:19 PM
Just let me say this:

I EXPECT Andre Davis to be cut. He filled in admirably that one year. He had a couple good returns. But he is awful, awful, bad, awful, bad, bad, bad, bad, awful, crappy, bad, awful at returning kicks. AJ, KW, JJ, DA, TH wr depth in a box.

During the press conference Gary Kubiak indicated that Holliday was brought in to be a punt/kick-off return specialist.

Goldensilence
04-24-2010, 05:24 PM
I freaking LOVE this pick. I had hoped we'd land him!

GP
04-24-2010, 05:40 PM
I watched a bunch of LSU games and this kid is a competitor! Nice pickup.

JJ, look over your shoulder. This kid is coming up hard and fast.

Let's not get too carried away here.

Here's JJ's nfl.com stats from 2009, stacked up against the entire LEAGUE:

ENTIRE NFL 2009:

(a) Jacoby Top 5 in punt return yards (50 yds. from being No. 1)

(b) Jacoby tied for No. 1 with 7 returns of 20+ yards

(c) Jacoby tied for No. 2 with 2 returns of 40+ yards

(d) Jacoby tied for No. 14 with about 9 other guys with 2 fumbles on punt returns

Receiving Stats:

(a) Jacoby is 28th in entire league with 6 TDs

(b) Noteworthy guys behind Jacoby and each receiver's TD total:

Santonio Holmes (5)
Calvin Johnson (5)
Terrell Owens (5)
Anquan Boldin (4)

(c) Jacoby had zero fumbles in the receiving stats.

The whole dissin' on JJ act is wearing thin. And it shows that when a guy gets labeled by hometown fans early on in his career, since he was a bit of a fumble machine early in his career here, that it's hard to shake the label.

If they decide to stick Doc Holliday in and return the ball, so be it. He does look VERY good. But I don't think Jacoby Jones is all that shabby either, as the stats for the whole league have indicated.

buddyboy
04-24-2010, 05:43 PM
Let's not get too carried away here.

Here's JJ's nfl.com stats from 2009, stacked up against the entire LEAGUE:

ENTIRE NFL 2009:

(a) Jacoby Top 5 in punt return yards (50 yds. from being No. 1)

(b) Jacoby tied for No. 1 with 7 returns of 20+ yards

(c) Jacoby tied for No. 2 with 2 returns of 40+ yards

(d) Jacoby tied for No. 14 with about 9 other guys with 2 fumbles on punt returns

Receiving Stats:

(a) Jacoby is 28th in entire league with 6 TDs

(b) Noteworthy guys behind Jacoby and each receiver's TD total:

Santonio Holmes (5)
Calvin Johnson (5)
Terrell Owens (5)
Anquan Boldin (4)

(c) Jacoby had zero fumbles in the receiving stats.

The whole dissin' on JJ act is wearing thin. And it shows that when a guy gets labeled by hometown fans early on in his career, since he was a bit of a fumble machine early in his career here, that it's hard to shake the label.

If they decide to stick Doc Holliday in and return the ball, so be it. He does look VERY good. But I don't think Jacoby Jones is all that shabby either, as the stats for the whole league have indicated.

Just curious, is that two LOST fumbles, or just two fumbles? It sure seemed like he fumbled a few more times last season...either way, I really hope JJ keeps up the production this season, he's always had a super high ceiling.

Porky
04-24-2010, 05:43 PM
Highlight package (http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/nfldraft/Wider_Receivers/19215757#nfldraft/Wider_Receivers/19215757)

Looking at the highlights here, what impresses me is that for a kid of that size and speed, he doesn't seem to dance around a lot. Jacoby dances too much and is always trying for the homerun every time. This kid seems to secure the ball, and turn upfield without a ton of dancing and reversing etc.

Love the pick. The LSU bio on him says he is the fastest guy to ever play college football. While I think that is a bit of hyperbole for sure, the kid is obviousely hell on wheels. He adds a dynamic to the offense and ST like we haven't had before, although Jacoby and Mathis are probably close.

GP
04-24-2010, 05:43 PM
During the press conference Gary Kubiak indicated that Holliday was brought in to be a punt/kick-off return specialist.

We are going to carry a whole roster spot dedicated solely for kickoff and punt returns?

LOL. :spin:

I'll believe it when I see it.

GP
04-24-2010, 05:47 PM
Just curious, is that two LOST fumbles, or just two fumbles? It sure seemed like he fumbled a few more times last season...either way, I really hope JJ keeps up the production this season, he's always had a super high ceiling.

In game 2 of the season, he bobbled a punt near our own goal line. He had signaled fair catch, dropped the ball, and before it hit the ground a Titans player grabbed it out of the air. It was ruled that the ball was supposed to touch the ground before opposing team cold touch it (fair catch rule).

So if not sure if THAT situation is one of the two fumbles counted against him.

All I know is that he isn't putting the ball on the ground nearly as much as he did each previous year.

I am wondering if JJ is going to be used pretty much solely as a WR this season. That's probably his best bet for staying on the roster, especially if Doc Holliday shoots holes through opposing special teamers.

GP
04-24-2010, 05:49 PM
Highlight package (http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/nfldraft/Wider_Receivers/19215757#nfldraft/Wider_Receivers/19215757)Love the pick. The LSU bio on him says he is the fastest guy to ever play college football. While I think that is a bit of hyperbole for sure, the kid is obviousely hell on wheels. He adds a dynamic to the offense and ST like we haven't had before, although Jacoby and Mathis are probably close.

Jacoby and Mathis are taller and can be knocked off their stride, due to how fast they run and that whole center-of-gravity thing.

I can remember watching JJ get touched as he ran by someone, and he appears to start walking a tightrope trying to keep his balance as he tries to keep moving forward with as much speed as possible. That's when you see him raise that ball-carrying arm up in the air trying to balance himself out, and special teamers ripping at that arm of his.

This Holliday guy looks like a bowling ball shot out of a cannon. He doesn't get un-squared when he's touched. It's just all 100% forward-moving body mass at a high rate of speed. Very impressive, and I wonder why he lasted this long in the draft? Very curious.

rmartin65
04-24-2010, 05:53 PM
I just wanted to point out that badboy, beerlover and I called this pick about a month ago.

I am pumped for this guy. Field position will improve, special teams TDs will improve, and he if he gets the ball 3-5 times on offense, the offense will improve. This guy is legit.

GP
04-24-2010, 05:56 PM
Here's some high-definition youtube clips of Holliday, in the Arkansas game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlYgAUH7zfI&feature=related) Pause the video and let it load, because it takes it awhile.

Punt return @ the 1:50 mark on the video is indicative of what you guys have been saying about him: No dancing around; he looks for the crease/seam and he hits it as fast as he can peddle.

On the replay they show, he even entices two or three Arkansas special teamers into committing to a lane where he was about to have some LSU blockers arrive at the same time he makes his cut to his right, which is where he creates his own seam. Pretty freaking smart, if you ask me.

On the running plays he's involved in, he looks like Moats to me. Lots of around-the-corner and down the sideline stuff. Hard to pick him up as we weaves through his blockers.

On the last play of the clip, watch the two LBs at the snap...they are completely isolating on Holliday even during the fake handoff to the other LSU running back. Holliday is commanding respect when he's on the field, because the Razorbacks have been burned too much by him.

TEXANRED
04-24-2010, 06:11 PM
I heard from this board we are going 6-10 this year due to our bad drafting. Confirm/deny?

We were 4th in O and 13th in D. The only thing that separated us from the Jets was week 1.

Think about it, Ben Tate, 6 foot 220 4.43 40 is the every down, get a yard when you need a yard back we have needed. Slaton if he comes back healthy can still be Slaton of old, and Foster looked really good last year. For once, our RB's have talent. I think Tate is the guy that will come in and completely change the outlook of our teams and will be the guy that will close out games for us.

We got deeper at CB. Quinn, Reeves, McCain are already three solid players. Now we have Jackson and McMannis joining the club which could very well spell the end for Bennett and Molden. Finally we will have a solid back field that has depth and talent.

Our DL rotation got deeper with Mitchell. Remember, Smith moves inside on passing downs and Barwin will be in his second year. And oh yeah, we got this other guy named Mario Williams who plays DE for us.

We got more athletic at the LB position with the addition of Sharpton. Combine that with our starters of Ryans, Cushing, and Diles with XA we have a young group of athletic fast LB's that gives Bush many different options scheme wise.

Then we go off and draft Shelley Smith that is a big fast OG that fits our scheme so I donít understand all the Bitchin. He can sit and learn for a year. Out interior line got better and more experience after last year. Caldwell, White, Myers, Studdard, now Shelley if he makes the team. Again. we are deep depth wise.

Was this an exciting draft full of glitz and glamour? No. But neither was the Colts draft, or the Patriots, or the Steelers. But all they do is go out and get the players that fit their team and win.

So I say :clap: to Kubes and Smith.

GuerillaBlack
04-24-2010, 06:13 PM
Let's not get too carried away here.

Here's JJ's nfl.com stats from 2009, stacked up against the entire LEAGUE:

ENTIRE NFL 2009:

(a) Jacoby Top 5 in punt return yards (50 yds. from being No. 1)

(b) Jacoby tied for No. 1 with 7 returns of 20+ yards

(c) Jacoby tied for No. 2 with 2 returns of 40+ yards

(d) Jacoby tied for No. 14 with about 9 other guys with 2 fumbles on punt returns

Receiving Stats:

(a) Jacoby is 28th in entire league with 6 TDs

(b) Noteworthy guys behind Jacoby and each receiver's TD total:

Santonio Holmes (5)
Calvin Johnson (5)
Terrell Owens (5)
Anquan Boldin (4)

(c) Jacoby had zero fumbles in the receiving stats.

The whole dissin' on JJ act is wearing thin. And it shows that when a guy gets labeled by hometown fans early on in his career, since he was a bit of a fumble machine early in his career here, that it's hard to shake the label.

If they decide to stick Doc Holliday in and return the ball, so be it. He does look VERY good. But I don't think Jacoby Jones is all that shabby either, as the stats for the whole league have indicated.

Jacoby can keep his PR spot, but he should focus more on being a complete WR and take Andre Davis' spot. Then, have Holliday handle KR and some WR duty. I think Davis is on his way out. Wish we could have traded him this weekend for some draft picks.

GP
04-24-2010, 06:19 PM
Jacoby can keep his PR spot, but he should focus more on being a complete WR and take Andre Davis' spot. Then, have Holliday handle KR and some WR duty. I think Davis is on his way out. Wish we could have traded him this weekend for some draft picks.

I see him as being a safety-option at running back, too. Gotta' remember that Domanick Davis was from LSU and was small and dynamic (brought in by Capers to be a so-called special teamer and 3rd down running back).

But I think Jacoby's days of returning kicks AND punts might be over.

I think Kubiak fed him some more snaps at wide receiver to see what Jacoby could do with it. All he seemed to do when he was in there at WR was catch passes and turn it into pretty good YAC, and the 6 TDs at limited playing time is a bonus.

Active roster for RB:

1. Slaton

2. Foster

3. Tate

4. Holliday (because he can return kicks AND punts)

We had carried Jacoby as a WR and a punt returner, so he gets relegated to a true WR role (Probably going to cut Andre Davis, so that opens up a WR roster spot for JJ) and we add Holliday in there as a RB/PR & KR (who now assumes that dual-role ability that JJ once did).

rmartin65
04-24-2010, 06:25 PM
I am pretty sure JJ is done returning kicks, of all kind, unless Holliday turns out to be a bust. Kubiak said multiple times that Holliday will be the punt returner and kick returner. I think he does not want to risk JJ getting injured.

JB
04-24-2010, 06:27 PM
I am pretty sure JJ is done returning kicks, of all kind, unless Holliday turns out to be a bust. Kubiak said multiple times that Holliday will be the punt returner and kick returner. I think he does not want to risk JJ getting injured.

Yep. I think Kubiak wants JJ to focus on his WR duties and will utilize him more this year.

GP
04-24-2010, 06:27 PM
I am pretty sure JJ is done returning kicks, of all kind, unless Holliday turns out to be a bust. Kubiak said multiple times that Holliday will be the punt returner and kick returner. I think he does not want to risk JJ getting injured.

I'm kind of sad.

Like the day we heard JJ Moses was leaving.

But if the special teams gets better and better with each passing-of-the-torch, then so be it!

Lucky
04-24-2010, 06:30 PM
I am pretty sure JJ is done returning kicks, of all kind, unless Holliday turns out to be a bust. Kubiak said multiple times that Holliday will be the punt returner and kick returner. I think he does not want to risk JJ getting injured.
I've always felt that returner should be a stand alone position. Like long snapper. Glad to see Kubiak coming around to that concept.

Jackie Chiles
04-24-2010, 06:32 PM
In the highlights it looks like some 12 year old kid jumped out of the stands and ran on the field, only he is juking everyone trying to catch him out of their shoes. Who has seen Kick Ass? Holliday=Hit Boy.

Dutchrudder
04-24-2010, 08:27 PM
I am pretty sure JJ is done returning kicks, of all kind, unless Holliday turns out to be a bust. Kubiak said multiple times that Holliday will be the punt returner and kick returner. I think he does not want to risk JJ getting injured.

Yep. I think Kubiak wants JJ to focus on his WR duties and will utilize him more this year.

I don't see any reason why they would take JJ off of kick returns. There are always two players back to receive the kicks, Andre Davis and JJ. Now it should be JJ and Holliday. Who else would they use for KR with Holliday?

TheRealJoker
04-24-2010, 08:30 PM
Don't shoot the messenger. Just dog tired of seeing Texans lay the ball on the ground whether it be Slaton or Jacoby Jones or whomever. Sure Holliday is quick, but he's also slight of build. Will that result in him getting gashed by opposing special teams and coughing up the ball? Not trying to be a Jack-ass, just trying to pose a question about his ability to hold onto the ball on returns, etc.

Relax Dishman, I was only joking.

PS: I got your autograph when I was a youngster!!!

rmartin65
04-24-2010, 08:32 PM
I don't see any reason why they would take JJ off of kick returns. There are always two players back to receive the kicks, Andre Davis and JJ. Now it should be JJ and Holliday. Who else would they use for KR with Holliday?

I probably should have specified. I think JJ is done being a primary guy on kick returns. I think Holliday will be the guy who returns the kicks more often than not.

TheRealJoker
04-24-2010, 08:53 PM
I'd prefer to have JJ concentrate solely on WR to see if he can eventually supplant Walter.* There was a lot of people that complained about re-signing KW because it would cut into JJ's playing time but if JJ is focusing only on WR maybe he has a better shot at taking some of KW's playing time or convincing the coaches not to unleash TE hell on opponents!!!

*Provided Holliday can handle being our return specialist. I think he can, since he was so successful in the SEC.

TimeKiller
04-24-2010, 09:03 PM
During the press conference Gary Kubiak indicated that Holliday was brought in to be a punt/kick-off return specialist.

Yes, I see now and the 7th pick will be used as a reciever.

This guy is amazingly fast. That one highlight of him throughout a whole game shows the wheels. On the punt return he put on the juice around the 30 and beat a guy who had a good 10-12 yard head start on him.

So then it's Jacoby Jones, Wide Receiver is it? I'm alright with it. He deserves it and I'm excited to see what he's capable of as a bigger cog in the offense. I think AJ/JJ as Batman and Robin is a lethal combination. Who's playing time diminishes? I pray to everything considered holy David Anderson is done as the slot-receiver-motion-blocker, this is Kevin Walter's new role and probably the 7th pick the backup. And speaking of Kevin Walter's new role, with guys like Holliday and JJ and plenty of others I think we're done with the KW running back look. That doesn't count as a trick play Kubiak.

So is Anderson ok as the 4th receiver?

rmartin65
04-24-2010, 09:09 PM
I think the receivers are going to be AJ, JJ, KW, DA and Dickerson. Holliday will probably take a couple snaps at slot receiver, as well as some at runningback.

GP
04-24-2010, 09:20 PM
I think the receivers are going to be AJ, JJ, KW, DA and Dickerson. Holliday will probably take a couple snaps at slot receiver, as well as some at runningback.

The only thing I can see is if Kubiak wants to try and promote Martinez and relegate Dickerson to the practice squad.

Kubiak loves to create step-by-step, steadily up the ladder loyalty within his team. I could see him making sure a few vets get a nod early on unless something gets weird with a vet who isn't performing or is hurt.

I've spoken about how Kubiak's "loyalty" is a good thing in one sense, but can be a damning thing in another sense. I was torqued with the limited role JJ received in the receiving game last year...but it looks like JJ was getting a tryout for the 2010 season. Things must have gone so well that Kubiak hired a true return specialist so JJ could be a full-time WR.

Bravo.

ubecool454
04-24-2010, 09:25 PM
The only thing I can see is if Kubiak wants to try and promote Martinez and relegate Dickerson to the practice squad.

Kubiak loves to create step-by-step, steadily up the ladder loyalty within his team. I could see him making sure a few vets get a nod early on unless something gets weird with a vet who isn't performing or is hurt.

I've spoken about how Kubiak's "loyalty" is a good thing in one sense, but can be a damning thing in another sense. I was torqued with the limited role JJ received in the receiving game last year...but it looks like JJ was getting a tryout for the 2010 season. Things must have gone so well that Kubiak hired a true return specialist so JJ could be a full-time WR.
Bravo.

Martinez is probably outta here. JJ will be the #2 WR on some days and #3 on other days...it just depends on the team and who we going up against. Holliday is not that big but half the defenders won't see him and the other half can't catch him even if they have the angle. We thought Jerome Mathis was fast? How about a match race with Tridon and Chris Johnson? I just hope Holliday can dance because the only post TD dancer we have right now is JJ.....David Anderson tried to dance but I would rather he didn't..lol

GP
04-24-2010, 09:36 PM
Martinez is probably outta here. JJ will be the #2 WR on some days and #3 on other days...it just depends on the team and who we going up against. Holliday is not that big but half the defenders won't see him and the other half can't catch him even if they have the angle. We thought Jerome Mathis was fast? How about a match race with Tridon and Chris Johnson? I just hope Holliday can dance because the only post TD dancer we have right now is JJ.....David Anderson tried to dance but I would rather he didn't..lol

Martinez might be on the outside looking in, but then again he might be a guy Kubiak wants to replace KW or DA if something happens.

The guy hasn't seen much more than just special teams action, but I bet he stays one more season with us. Just a hunch, but sometimes hunches end up being wrong.

Rey
04-24-2010, 09:43 PM
Martinez might be on the outside looking in, but then again he might be a guy Kubiak wants to replace KW or DA if something happens.

The guy hasn't seen much more than just special teams action, but I bet he stays one more season with us. Just a hunch, but sometimes hunches end up being wrong.

I don't think that we'll carry three QB's again, so I'm thinking that either an extra RB or reciever will be carried..Martinez is a good special teams player and that is really important...

TheRealJoker
04-24-2010, 09:55 PM
Yes, I see now and the 7th pick will be used as a reciever.

This guy is amazingly fast. That one highlight of him throughout a whole game shows the wheels. On the punt return he put on the juice around the 30 and beat a guy who had a good 10-12 yard head start on him.

So then it's Jacoby Jones, Wide Receiver is it? I'm alright with it. He deserves it and I'm excited to see what he's capable of as a bigger cog in the offense. I think AJ/JJ as Batman and Robin is a lethal combination. Who's playing time diminishes? I pray to everything considered holy David Anderson is done as the slot-receiver-motion-blocker, this is Kevin Walter's new role and probably the 7th pick the backup. And speaking of Kevin Walter's new role, with guys like Holliday and JJ and plenty of others I think we're done with the KW running back look. That doesn't count as a trick play Kubiak.

So is Anderson ok as the 4th receiver?

What's wrong with DA? He's got superglue for hands and a knack for getting open on 3rd down.

TheRealJoker
04-24-2010, 10:00 PM
I don't think that we'll carry three QB's again, so I'm thinking that either an extra RB or reciever will be carried..Martinez is a good special teams player and that is really important...

Down to 2 QBs and I don't think we need a LS either. Let Graham and Casey take some of Dreesen's TE load to reduce chance of injuring our LS.

Martinez' only hope is that he's substantially further ahead on route running than Dickerson. Otherwise he's out... but he's a fighter so it'll be an exciting battle to see if Martinez can send that giant ball of athleticism to the practice squad.

V3rm0nt3r
04-24-2010, 10:12 PM
Down to 2 QBs and I don't think we need a LS either. Let Graham and Casey take some of Dreesen's TE load to reduce chance of injuring our LS.

Martinez' only hope is that he's substantially further ahead on route running than Dickerson. Otherwise he's out... but he's a fighter so it'll be an exciting battle to see if Martinez can send that giant ball of athleticism to the practice squad.

Do I smell a new nickname?

Dishman
04-24-2010, 10:25 PM
Relax Dishman, I was only joking.

PS: I got your autograph when I was a youngster!!!


Hehe, fair enough. Maybe we could use a little Dishman action in our Texans secondary. Really looking forward to see how Holliday will look in training camp!

GP
04-24-2010, 10:27 PM
What's wrong with DA? He's got superglue for hands and a knack for getting open on 3rd down.

Once he catches the ball, tacklers nab him pretty much on-the-spot.

When JJ runs a slant and catches it...the whole secondary freaks out and trips over their own feet. It happens. I seen it. Plenty.

Opposing secondaries are not scared of letting DA catch the ball. But you bet your rhubarb pie they quake when JJ catches a ball, in stride, in the open field. It's the same as when JJ catches a punt, in stride, and has an opening...it's right in his wheelhouse. He freaks out over fair catches and waiting on a pass. But if he's in fluid motion, it clicks in his head and his hands match his feet.

DA and KW are possession receivers, but KW has length and reach advantage over DA. I think both guys are going to be used, but KW getting the vast majority of looks. At least that's the smart play, IMO.

NitroGSXR
04-25-2010, 01:34 AM
My spidey sense tells me Trindon Holliday is going to have a very explosive albeit short career. TDs galore then this kid's getting crumpled in a fell swoop.

*ker-unch*

Maybe even Theismann worthy? Whatever they may be, I can't wait for the highlights of this kid. He's a football player! The way he tucks the football in while in a higher gear is a thing of beauty. I just wish he was bigger. 160 lbs? Holy hell.

:fans:

Goldensilence
04-25-2010, 03:16 AM
Once he catches the ball, tacklers nab him pretty much on-the-spot.

When JJ runs a slant and catches it...the whole secondary freaks out and trips over their own feet. It happens. I seen it. Plenty.

Opposing secondaries are not scared of letting DA catch the ball. But you bet your rhubarb pie they quake when JJ catches a ball, in stride, in the open field. It's the same as when JJ catches a punt, in stride, and has an opening...it's right in his wheelhouse. He freaks out over fair catches and waiting on a pass. But if he's in fluid motion, it clicks in his head and his hands match his feet.

DA and KW are possession receivers, but KW has length and reach advantage over DA. I think both guys are going to be used, but KW getting the vast majority of looks. At least that's the smart play, IMO.

Good explanation.

My spidey sense tells me Trindon Holliday is going to have a very explosive albeit short career. TDs galore then this kid's getting crumpled in a fell swoop.

*ker-unch*

Maybe even Theismann worthy? Whatever they may be, I can't wait for the highlights of this kid. He's a football player! The way he tucks the football in while in a higher gear is a thing of beauty. I just wish he was bigger. 160 lbs? Holy hell.

:fans:

He's survived in the SEC so I think the guy can survive in the NFL.

Like at LSU he's not going to be asked to be a primary back and initially probably will be a PR/KR. But, I really think after seeing him in TC the staff is just going to have to find ways to get the ball in his hands. He's going to be killer on screen plays and has the ability to make dump off passes into big plays out of the backfield.

Dan B.
04-25-2010, 05:23 AM
In game 2 of the season, he bobbled a punt near our own goal line. He had signaled fair catch, dropped the ball, and before it hit the ground a Titans player grabbed it out of the air. It was ruled that the ball was supposed to touch the ground before opposing team cold touch it (fair catch rule).

So if not sure if THAT situation is one of the two fumbles counted against him.

All I know is that he isn't putting the ball on the ground nearly as much as he did each previous year.

I am wondering if JJ is going to be used pretty much solely as a WR this season. That's probably his best bet for staying on the roster, especially if Doc Holliday shoots holes through opposing special teamers.

I like it.

texanhead08
04-25-2010, 09:46 AM
Holliday is the NCAA champ @ 100m.....my friends thats fast.

SheTexan
04-25-2010, 09:53 AM
DOC HOLLIDAY, a member of this board, should get a big kick out of this one!! :doot:

rmartin65
04-25-2010, 09:54 AM
I am not too worried about durability. He does not have a history of injuries thus far, so I think we are ok. He wont be asked to run up the gut,, that will help him out.

Some people's bodies just hold together better than other people's. It appears that Holliday has gotten lucky. That said, freak injuries happen to everyone. So we will see.

Ole Miss Texan
04-25-2010, 11:03 AM
Lightning fast track star. Should be fun to watch him during preseason.

jaayteetx
04-25-2010, 11:28 AM
Can't wait to see this kid light it up on Sundays, special teams should be a major strength for us next year.

silvrhand
04-25-2010, 11:38 AM
thank god, cause Andre Davis is a horrible kick returner.

CloakNNNdagger
04-25-2010, 11:46 AM
PROFILE (http://national-football-league-nfl.suite101.com/article.cfm/lsus-trindon-holliday-and-the--2010-nfl-draft)

But even the most skeptical of skeptics have to be at least a little impressed with Holliday's elusiveness. He scored eight touchdowns during his four-year career at LSU. Four of the TDs came on rushes, and two each were on punt and kickoff returns. He averaged a stellar 15.0 yards per return during his career, including 18.1 last season.

The Strengths of Trindon Holliday

Holliday possesses more than just blazing straight-line speed. He makes nice, sharp cuts, and does a good job finding gaps. He moves so swiftly that even his slightest motions work like fakes and throw defenders off balance.

Also, Holliday's quite a leaper. His vertical jump of 42 inches was fourth-best at the combines, topped only by cornerback A.J. Jefferson of Fresno State, safety Eric Berry of Tennessee and tight end Dorin Dickerson of Pittsburgh. Holliday led all combine performers in the three-cone drill (6.58 seconds)

Despite his lack of size, Holliday does not lack toughness. He'll do his best when asked to block, and does not go out of his way to avoid contact.

The Weaknesses of Trindon Holliday

Holliday's physical stature wipes out any chances of his being anything more than a role player. In fact, he doesn't really have a regular position.

Listed as a running back at LSU, he rushed only 115 times in four seasons. He certainly has the speed and athleticism to play receiver, but he managed only seven receptions in his college career. If Holliday sticks with any team, it will be because of his ability as a return man. He returned 43 punts and 73 kickoffs at LSU.

Many teams would like to bolster their return games, but they'd prefer to do so with a player who can contribute in other areas. Can Holliday do that?

TexCanada
04-25-2010, 11:50 AM
I think that Smithiak has picked many versatile guys who will back-up a position while they also play ST; because of this they probably felt like it was ok to bring a guy on board who specializes at one thing only.

ObsiWan
04-25-2010, 01:00 PM
Martinez might be on the outside looking in, but then again he might be a guy Kubiak wants to replace KW or DA if something happens.

The guy hasn't seen much more than just special teams action, but I bet he stays one more season with us. Just a hunch, but sometimes hunches end up being wrong.

I think you might be onto something here. If D.A. hadn't re-signed to significant $$, I'd say that he and Martinez will be duking it out for that last WR spot. But D.A.'s new contract gives him a leg up - at least this year.
And the acquisition of Dickerson - and Kubiak's declaration that he'll be a WR - probably makes 2010 Martinez's last chance to nail down a WR spot.

GuerillaBlack
04-25-2010, 01:56 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/LSU/Trindon_Holliday_Texan.jpg

NitroGSXR
04-25-2010, 03:15 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/LSU/Trindon_Holliday_Texan.jpg

Down here, coach.

This kid sure can hightail it. The Flash lives on.

ObsiWan
04-25-2010, 03:19 PM
Down here, coach.

This kid sure can hightail it. The Flash lives on.
:lol:
Rep to Guerilla for finding the photo
Rep to you for the caption

GP
04-25-2010, 06:51 PM
I think you might be onto something here. If D.A. hadn't re-signed to significant $$, I'd say that he and Martinez will be duking it out for that last WR spot. But D.A.'s new contract gives him a leg up - at least this year.
And the acquisition of Dickerson - and Kubiak's declaration that he'll be a WR - probably makes 2010 Martinez's last chance to nail down a WR spot.

Once you make this team, you tend to stay here.

Darius Walker knows this all too well: He seemed to NEVER really get over the top here, yet Kubiak was always bringing him back. He was cut, brought back, put on the practice squad, brought up, send down, etc.

Kubiak has a "farm system," in a sense, and I think Martinez is one of those guys that will be around at least one more year.

The smart play is to dump Andre Davis. Then have your WRs set as AJ, JJ, KW, DA, Dickerson, and Martinez. I just wonder why Dickerson lasted to round 7. I mean, that's a looooong time.

[/threadhijack]

CloakNNNdagger
04-25-2010, 07:02 PM
I think you might be onto something here. If D.A. hadn't re-signed to significant $$, I'd say that he and Martinez will be duking it out for that last WR spot. But D.A.'s new contract gives him a leg up - at least this year.
And the acquisition of Dickerson - and Kubiak's declaration that he'll be a WR - probably makes 2010 Martinez's last chance to nail down a WR spot.

Wouldn't it be somewhat unlikely that Kevin Walter would be on notice after his March 5-year $21 million contract ($8 million guaranteed)?

Honoring Earl 34
04-25-2010, 07:10 PM
Once you make this team, you tend to stay here.

Darius Walker knows this all too well: He seemed to NEVER really get over the top here, yet Kubiak was always bringing him back. He was cut, brought back, put on the practice squad, brought up, send down, etc.

Kubiak has a "farm system," in a sense, and I think Martinez is one of those guys that will be around at least one more year.

The smart play is to dump Andre Davis. Then have your WRs set as AJ, JJ, KW, DA, Dickerson, and Martinez. I just wonder why Dickerson lasted to round 7. I mean, that's a looooong time.

[/threadhijack]

We're going from a possesion group to a big play group .

GuerillaBlack
04-25-2010, 07:35 PM
We're going from a possesion group to a big play group .

Or a nice mixture of both. I like the way Kubiak and Smith are shaping up our receiving core. Just wish we could have traded Andre Davis for some picks during the draft.

V3rm0nt3r
04-25-2010, 07:56 PM
I just wonder why Dickerson lasted to round 7. I mean, that's a looooong time.[/threadhijack]

He's 6'1" and weighs 220 lbs. played LB TE and FB in college and only succeeded during his season. however he runs a 4.45 has incredibly soft hands and can stretch the field.

JB
04-25-2010, 07:58 PM
He's 6'4" and weighs 226 lbs. played LB TE and FB in college and only succeeded during his season. however he runs a 4.45 has incredibly soft hands and can stretch the field.

Fixed it for ya!

V3rm0nt3r
04-25-2010, 08:01 PM
He's 6'2" and weighs 230 lbs. played LB TE and FB in college and only succeeded during his season. however he runs a 4.45 has incredibly soft hands and can stretch the field.

Fixed it for ya!

RE-Fixed it for both of us,

JB
04-25-2010, 08:07 PM
RE-Fixed it for both of us,

Ok I can agree with that. I did see a couple of sights that had him at 6'4" and a couple that had him at 6'1+" and about 230

Either way, he has good size for a WR or HB, but small for a TE

ObsiWan
04-25-2010, 08:54 PM
Wouldn't it be somewhat unlikely that Kevin Walter would be on notice after his March 5-year $21 million contract ($8 million guaranteed)?

I never said that KW was in any sort of trouble for his spot. I said Martinez and D.A. are duking out for the LAST WR spot.
we all know the first four spots are set.
A.J.
K.W.
A.D. (until I see different - I wouldn't mind him being shopped for a late rd pick but just outright cutting him is crazy talk)
J.J.
D.A.
Martinez
Dickerson (practice squad)

Texans_Chick
04-25-2010, 10:20 PM
Some thoughts.

1. ST Coach Joe Marciano has sent three different rookies to the Pro Bowl for special teams returning in his career.

2. He loved JJ Moses but had to get rid of him because he wasn't fast enough and could be caught from behind. Jerome Mathis was blazing fast, but unfortunately had foot problems and attitude issues. Jacoby Jones is blazing fast, but with a physical WR body type, might be best to be groomed for more time on offense.

3. Interesting watching the video of him. Clean catches from that. Showed more than just straight line speed. I'd love to see how Coach Joe would use him. I always hated playing little dudes in flag football. The ones that can move on a dime and were fast. I understand it is also not fun to try to tackle fast little guys because of the angles and how it is hard to get low enough to bring them down.

4. Jacoby Jones was the most effective WR in the league who had 50 attempts or less. By far. (See FootballOutsider's stats). That begs for more attempts. Not having to spend as much time on ST could be helpful for developing his receiving skills.

5. Returns can be difference making. That's worth a 6th round pick.

Mari-OWNED!
04-25-2010, 10:56 PM
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but here are his stats from college outside of special teams.

Rushing
115 attempts for 776 yards and 4 touchdowns. Averaging 6.4 yards per carry.

Receiving
7 receptions for 72 yards and 0 touchdowns. Averaging 10.2 yards per reception.

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=181680

beerlover
04-26-2010, 12:50 AM
gives Texans much needed offensive dimension & speed.

maddogmrb
04-26-2010, 10:21 AM
Outstanding, I'm glad we're so good that we don't have needs at G, C, DT, FS, backup QB .......

Ole Miss Texan
04-26-2010, 10:46 AM
Outstanding, I'm glad we're so good that we don't have needs at G, C, DT, FS, backup QB .......

I don't really understand this post....

NitroGSXR
04-26-2010, 10:50 AM
I don't really understand this post....

He forgot his sarcasm smiley although I understood his post. I don't necessarily agree but I understood it just fine...

Blake
04-26-2010, 10:53 AM
I don't really understand this post....

There is nothing to understand. Obviously this person doesnt know what they are talking about.

Ole Miss Texan
04-26-2010, 10:57 AM
He forgot his sarcasm smiley although I understood his post. I don't necessarily agree but I understood it just fine...

I figured he was being sarcastic but it still didn't make sense to me. It's terrible we didn't sign a FA G/C, nor did we spend a 3rd on a DT... nor did we draft a ZBS OG.... Should we have picked Clausen in the 1st to push Orlavsky? Should we have selected a FS in the 2nd and neglected RB?

Ole Miss Texan
04-26-2010, 10:59 AM
I figured he was being sarcastic but it still didn't make sense to me. It's terrible we didn't sign a FA G/C, nor did we spend a 3rd on a DT... nor did we draft a ZBS OG.... Should we have picked Clausen in the 1st to push Orlavsky? Should we have selected a FS in the 2nd and neglected RB?

Should we have drafted a QB so I could spell his name right? Orlavsky is probably off throwing balls to Walters or something...

NitroGSXR
04-26-2010, 11:06 AM
I figured he was being sarcastic but it still didn't make sense to me. It's terrible we didn't sign a FA G/C, nor did we spend a 3rd on a DT... nor did we draft a ZBS OG.... Should we have picked Clausen in the 1st to push Orlavsky? Should we have selected a FS in the 2nd and neglected RB?

Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with his post. The aftermath of the NFL draft is kind of like watching fish flip-flop around on the ground. One's like... what in the world...

Stupid is as stupid does. A multitude of teams do it every year. Let's play some football and end the agony of not knowing if we're one of those teams.

The Pencil Neck
04-26-2010, 11:15 AM
Should we have drafted a QB so I could spell his name right? Orlavsky is probably off throwing balls to Walters or something...

I did exactly the same thing a few days ago.

So blame me.

maddogmrb
04-26-2010, 11:31 AM
There is nothing to understand. Obviously this person doesnt know what they are talking about.

You're right, I don't know what I'm talking about. I forgot the team is totally set at G, C, DT, FS, backup QB and has absolutely NO CONCERNS about those positions so that we have the luxury of picking up a one-dimensional 5-5", 165 lb, return man. I mean, Casey Studdard, Chris Meyer, Amobi Okoye, and Wilson will ALL be in the Pro-Bowl next year and our backup QB is just waiting for Schaub to retire before stepping into his pro-bowl slot.

After all, it was just bad breaks for us that the Colts went to the SB last year instead of us ...... or maybe it was the officials ...... cause Lord knows we were excellent at each of the above positions......

Blake
04-26-2010, 12:00 PM
You're right, I don't know what I'm talking about. I forgot the team is totally set at G, C, DT, FS, backup QB and has absolutely NO CONCERNS about those positions so that we have the luxury of picking up a one-dimensional 5-5", 165 lb, return man. I mean, Casey Studdard, Chris Meyer, Amobi Okoye, and Wilson will ALL be in the Pro-Bowl next year and our backup QB is just waiting for Schaub to retire before stepping into his pro-bowl slot.

After all, it was just bad breaks for us that the Colts went to the SB last year instead of us ...... or maybe it was the officials ...... cause Lord knows we were excellent at each of the above positions......

Do you expect the Texans to have pro-bowl players at every position?

ANYONE can list 4-5 players on ANY roster that are suspect. So good job on that. You are awesome!

Maybe if we drafted like this you would be happy.

Round 1: Joe Haden
Round 2: Ndamukong Suh
Round 3: CJ Spiller
Round 4: Mike Iupati
Round 5: Maurkice Pouncey
Round 6: Earl Thomas
Round 7: Sam Bradford

HEY! I did it! I filled all of the Texans urgent needs, and your needs as well! Now we have pro-bowl caliber players at every single position!!!!

maddogmrb
04-26-2010, 12:09 PM
Do you expect the Texans to have pro-bowl players at every position?

ANYONE can list 4-5 players on ANY roster that are suspect. So good job on that. You are awesome!

Maybe if we drafted like this you would be happy.

Round 1: Joe Haden
Round 2: Ndamukong Suh
Round 3: CJ Spiller
Round 4: Mike Iupati
Round 5: Maurkice Pouncey
Round 6: Earl Thomas
Round 7: Sam Bradford

HEY! I did it! I filled all of the Texans urgent needs, and your needs as well! Now we have pro-bowl caliber players at every single position!!!!

What an idiotic post! We sure can't have pro-bowl (or just plain good) players at ANY of our weak positions .... again G, C, FS, big DT, backup QB ..... by drafting 5-5" kick returners .....

Dutchrudder
04-26-2010, 04:23 PM
What an idiotic post! We sure can't have pro-bowl (or just plain good) players at ANY of our weak positions .... again G, C, FS, big DT, backup QB ..... by drafting 5-5" kick returners .....

Why can't we have a pro bowl kick returner? We did have one on this team some time ago.

The Pencil Neck
04-26-2010, 04:29 PM
What an idiotic post! We sure can't have pro-bowl (or just plain good) players at ANY of our weak positions .... again G, C, FS, big DT, backup QB ..... by drafting 5-5" kick returners .....

Let's go through this again:

G- Got one. Shelley Smith. A guy that already knows our system.

C- Didn't get one. But we may already have gotten one LAST year. The C is a tough position for a rookie and Caldwell may be our new C after having a year to learn all the calls and protections. Or not.

FS- This team didn't see this as a need and didn't see anyone they liked better than what they have.

Big DT- Not gonna happen. Not a part of our defense. Not what our coaches want. This is not a need.

Backup QB- Already did this last year and at the beginning of offseason. This is not a need.

In the 6th round, if you can get someone who's going to contribute, that's a win. And that 5'-5" kick returner is probably going to win a spot on this team and be a force in ST. Which is more than any FS or OL that you're going to get in the 4th+ round who is probably going to take a year or more before they start to contribute.

JWarren14
04-26-2010, 04:42 PM
Would you give a 6th to have Darren Sproles?

Carr Bombed
04-26-2010, 04:42 PM
http://www.comixconnection.com/uploaded_images/286100~Portrait-of-Baby-Crying-Posters-713652.jpg

:)...

JB
04-26-2010, 04:55 PM
:)...

:spit:

NitroGSXR
04-26-2010, 06:08 PM
Genuine question... how dependant do we really need to be on our return game. I ask because we've got the #1 passing offense in the NFL in terms of yards. We can get downfield. Moving the ball inside the redzone is where we struggle. Is this kid going to be able to help us there?

The Pencil Neck
04-26-2010, 06:13 PM
Genuine question... how dependant do we really need to be on our return game. I ask because we've got the #1 passing offense in the NFL in terms of yards. We can get downfield. Moving the ball inside the redzone is where we struggle. Is this kid going to be able to help us there?

We didn't have that many problems in the red zone this past year. I think/hope we've solved all of those. And, if anything, Tate should solve what problems remain.

BUT, even with our offense as it is, the shorter the playing field, the better. If we had started a little bit closer to the opponents' end zones, maybe we would have scored more. :)

This pick could improve the team in mystical and magical and unforeseen domino-like ways.

But really, this gives us flexibility. It allows JJ to concentrate on receiving. It may make AD expendable.

gtexan02
04-26-2010, 06:13 PM
Genuine question... how dependant do we really need to be on our return game. I ask because we've got the #1 passing offense in the NFL in terms of yards. We can get downfield. Moving the ball inside the redzone is where we struggle. Is this kid going to be able to help us there?

The only thing I can say here is that we tend to turn the ball over. A turnover on your own 25 is a lot more harmful than a turnover on your own 45. If this guy can give us 5-10 extra yards every time we give up a score, it shoudl be considered a nice gain

Carr Bombed
04-26-2010, 06:13 PM
Genuine question... how dependant do we really need to be on our return game. I ask because we've got the #1 passing offense in the NFL in terms of yards. We can get downfield. Moving the ball inside the redzone is where we struggle. Is this kid going to be able to help us there?

If this kid gives us a short field your chances of scoring on a short field are alot greater than starting around your 20. He isn't going to help us in the redzone, but he'll give us more redzone opportunities and that's where hopefully our 2nd round pick will help us.

Ole Miss Texan
04-26-2010, 06:18 PM
Genuine question... how dependant do we really need to be on our return game. I ask because we've got the #1 passing offense in the NFL in terms of yards. We can get downfield. Moving the ball inside the redzone is where we struggle. Is this kid going to be able to help us there?

Good question, I think the others answered it pretty well.

Hopefully the additions of Graham and Dickerson could turn out to be some nice redzone targets. Not to mention Ben Tate running behind Alan Faneca! :stirpot:

Rey
04-27-2010, 01:47 PM
Here's a good article on Trindon: http://www.allbowling.com/forum/showthread.php?22889-Good-Article-on-Trindon-Holiday

I think this guy can add another dimension to our offense as well...I don't know how much of a contribution he'll make in his first yr. on offense, but down the road I think he can become a consistent weapon there

BIG TORO
04-27-2010, 02:02 PM
How did this guy not go sooner in the draft? Whats the catch?

rmartin65
04-27-2010, 02:06 PM
How did this guy not go sooner in the draft? Whats the catch?

In case you missed it, he is 5'5" and 160 odd pounds. Also, he was not widely used on offense, which probably scared away some teams.

CloakNNNdagger
04-27-2010, 02:09 PM
Here's a good article on Trindon: http://www.allbowling.com/forum/showthread.php?22889-Good-Article-on-Trindon-Holiday

I think this guy can add another dimension to our offense as well...I don't know how much of a contribution he'll make in his first yr. on offense, but down the road I think he can become a consistent weapon there

Thanks for the great article. If the Texans are willing to take a chance and think creatively beyond returns, "The Little Engine That Could" just might be able to.:pirate:

Rey
04-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Trindon Holliday, KR, LSU
Sixth round (197th overall)

Strahm: "To me, there's three things about pro football. Number one, it's about speed, and it's about field position and it's about matchups. When you grade him in those three areas, he gets an ‘A' in all three. This guy is 5-5, 165, but he plays like he's 6-4. There's no fear. He's physically tough, mentally tough. He's from Northeastern High School in Zachary, La. Had the fastest time in the world in 2008 – he was the fastest human being on earth – when he ran the 60 meters in 6.54. Fastest time in the world. In 2009, he won the NCAA 100 meters in 10 flat. That's going over 10 yards-plus once in every second. The guy is amazing to me. I think he's going to bring a special presence to our special teams. He averaged 25 yards in kickoff return per try and he averaged almost 15 yards in punt return, so right now, we've got better field position. Obviously, he's a tremendous threat just because of his natural catching abilities and his raw speed. A great, great pick in the sixth round as a specialist, and in the past we haven't had the opportunities to go get that kind of guy."


http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6136

BIG TORO
04-27-2010, 02:13 PM
In case you missed it, he is 5'5" and 160 odd pounds. Also, he was not widely used on offense, which probably scared away some teams.

Yea, but he is so fast and his size actually helps him hide and slip by.

BIG TORO
04-27-2010, 02:14 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6136

He like my little chihuahua, he will fight a pit bull!

Thorn
04-27-2010, 07:18 PM
Big deal. It's a 6th round pick. There's a lot of upside to this pick if he pans out. If he doesn't, cut him and so what? It's not like your 6th round picks are gonna save the team or anything.

And don't go giving me examples of how 6th and 7th round picks became super stars. Sure, every now and then that happens. Players taken in the 6th or 7th rounds that actually make something out of themselves and become differance makers are rare. The guy has a chance to make a diffferance on special teams in terms of giving the offense good field position.

This is an excellent pick for the 6th round.

Carr Bombed
04-27-2010, 08:58 PM
Big deal. It's a 6th round pick. There's a lot of upside to this pick if he pans out. If he doesn't, cut him and so what? It's not like your 6th round picks are gonna save the team or anything.

And don't go giving me examples of how 6th and 7th round picks became super stars. Sure, every now and then that happens. Players taken in the 6th or 7th rounds that actually make something out of themselves and become differance makers are rare. The guy has a chance to make a diffferance on special teams in terms of giving the offense good field position.

This is an excellent pick for the 6th round.

If he can become a healthy Jerome Mathis - the headache, I'd be ecstatic and this 6th round pick will pay off 10 fold.

buddyboy
04-27-2010, 09:19 PM
Big deal. It's a 6th round pick. There's a lot of upside to this pick if he pans out. If he doesn't, cut him and so what? It's not like your 6th round picks are gonna save the team or anything.

And don't go giving me examples of how 6th and 7th round picks became super stars. Sure, every now and then that happens. Players taken in the 6th or 7th rounds that actually make something out of themselves and become differance makers are rare. The guy has a chance to make a diffferance on special teams in terms of giving the offense good field position.

This is an excellent pick for the 6th round.

Exactly. Why cry that we didn't address a "need" with the 6th rounder. Would you really have felt better if we started a FS we drafted in the 6th?

steelbtexan
04-27-2010, 09:48 PM
Good point

Barber is a 6th rd pick that will probably be starting at some point next season.

wagonhed
04-27-2010, 10:18 PM
holy crap

that's fast

:eek:

TheRealJoker
04-28-2010, 01:04 AM
Big deal. It's a 6th round pick. There's a lot of upside to this pick if he pans out. If he doesn't, cut him and so what? It's not like your 6th round picks are gonna save the team or anything.

And don't go giving me examples of how 6th and 7th round picks became super stars. Sure, every now and then that happens. Players taken in the 6th or 7th rounds that actually make something out of themselves and become differance makers are rare. The guy has a chance to make a diffferance on special teams in terms of giving the offense good field position.

This is an excellent pick for the 6th round.

Is that you Tom Brady?

wagonhed
04-28-2010, 01:17 AM
The percentage of NFL starters from lower rounds is not really that low. I'm using that write-up someone here did on top-10 rushing attack offensive lines and what round they were drafted in as my source, btw.

buddyboy
04-28-2010, 08:30 AM
Good point

Barber is a 6th rd pick that will probably be starting at some point next season.

And do you feel confident about that, because I sure don't. There are only so many picks in the draft, hopefully we address FS early in the draft next year.

BigBull17
04-28-2010, 09:51 AM
Good question, I think the others answered it pretty well.

Hopefully the additions of Graham and Dickerson could turn out to be some nice redzone targets. Not to mention Ben Tate running behind Alan Faneca! :stirpot:

No Faneca. but tate, Graham, and Dickerson should boost red zone scoring. All big, tough guys.

The Pencil Neck
04-28-2010, 10:28 AM
The percentage of NFL starters from lower rounds is not really that low. I'm using that write-up someone here did on top-10 rushing attack offensive lines and what round they were drafted in as my source, btw.

In the deep darkness of the offseason, I'll probably expand that out and generate something on last year's starters and where they were drafted.

Maybe do a compare and contrast with 20/40 years ago just as a point of reference. Or maybe compare against recent SB winners or something.

thunderkyss
04-28-2010, 10:44 AM
It allows JJ to concentrate on receiving.
:clap:

Why are we even having this discussion. This is all that needs to be said.

Our special teams was pretty good because of JJ, but we need him on offense, and he's shown that he can help, big-time, on offense.

Drafting Holiday allows us to make Jones a full-time WR, and not suffer any in the return game.

& next year, when we're playing most of the best defenses in the NFL, it would be nice to play them on a short field.

CloakNNNdagger
04-28-2010, 11:38 AM
I never said that KW was in any sort of trouble for his spot. I said Martinez and D.A. are duking out for the LAST WR spot.
we all know the first four spots are set.
A.J.
K.W.
A.D. (until I see different - I wouldn't mind him being shopped for a late rd pick but just outright cutting him is crazy talk)
J.J.
D.A.
Martinez
Dickerson (practice squad)

Sorry, ObsiWan. I was actually responding to GP's post that you were responding to in your post........and inadvertly hit reply on your reply post.

Confused? I stay that way!

El Tejano
04-28-2010, 12:54 PM
Wow! That little guy can fly! Can't wait to see him return kicks. Reminds me sorta of Dante Hall,

That's what Mike Mayock said.

Andrew6
04-28-2010, 01:00 PM
I wonder if our OLine could hold blocks at how good of a RB he'd be. Just give hime the ball and let him run under their legs for touch downs lol.:pop:

m5kwatts
04-29-2010, 02:36 AM
ESPNu just aired the Arkansas-LSU game from this year... Not only did TH take an 87 yard return to the house but he also carried the ball...alot....between the tackles vs. a big SEC defense in Arkansas. Surprised to see that and it had me wondering if we'll even try this.

TheRealJoker
04-29-2010, 02:56 AM
We need to line him up directly behind AJ... the defense will not even know he's on the field and will leave him uncovered!!!

Brisco_County
04-29-2010, 03:03 AM
Here's a good article on Trindon: http://www.allbowling.com/forum/showthread.php?22889-Good-Article-on-Trindon-Holiday

I think this guy can add another dimension to our offense as well...I don't know how much of a contribution he'll make in his first yr. on offense, but down the road I think he can become a consistent weapon there

The article makes a strong case for running him between tackles, especially on a ZBS team. He can get to full speed in a couple of strides, hide behind his blocker, and hit the hole hard. It's at least worth a shot in preseason.

BigBull17
05-03-2010, 11:59 AM
Do you expect the Texans to have pro-bowl players at every position?

ANYONE can list 4-5 players on ANY roster that are suspect. So good job on that. You are awesome!

Maybe if we drafted like this you would be happy.

Round 1: Joe Haden
Round 2: Ndamukong Suh
Round 3: CJ Spiller
Round 4: Mike Iupati
Round 5: Maurkice Pouncey
Round 6: Earl Thomas
Round 7: Sam Bradford

HEY! I did it! I filled all of the Texans urgent needs, and your needs as well! Now we have pro-bowl caliber players at every single position!!!!

God, you couldn't even draft a bigger running back. What good are you. It should be:

1st-Peyton Manning
2nd-The Williams's
3rd-Brandon Jacobs
4th-Nick Mangold
5th-Ed Reed
6th-Jahari Evans
7th-Derell Revis

Wolf
06-01-2010, 06:56 PM
HOUSTON -- Houston Texans sixth-round draft pick Trindon Holliday walked into the locker room one day and found a plastic booster seat on his chair.

Yes, the 5-foot-5, 165-pound Holliday is the NFL's shortest player and his teammates jab him with playful reminders almost daily. But he's also one of the league's fastest rookies and if he can master the art of receiving, Houston will add a unique and explosive weapon to its offense.

"It's a learning experience for me now, just trying to get these things down," Holliday said after Tuesday's practice. "I'm just focused on coming out, working hard every day and seeing where it all goes from there."

Holliday played running back and specialized in kick returns in four seasons at LSU, bringing back two punts and two kickoffs for touchdowns. He also was an All-American sprinter and was the 2009 NCAA national champion in the 100 meters with a time of 10 seconds flat.

But raw speed alone won't cut it in the NFL, and Texans coach Gary Kubiak thinks Holliday must make vast improvements. The Texans can't rely on Holliday for kick returns only, Kubiak said, and they need him to develop into a capable receiver.

"He's way behind, he's got a long way to go to prove to this team that he knows what he's doing," Kubiak said. "I don't know how much offense he played there (at LSU), in terms of what was expected of him. There are not many specialists in this business. You better know what you're doing across the board."

Holliday is driven to win his coach's approval, a mindset he says is fueled by his diminutive stature.




http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=5240280

CloakNNNdagger
06-01-2010, 07:56 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=5240280

Almost sounds like out-of-character harsh cutting comments by Kubiak. But this could very well Kubiak just trying to light a fire under a fire already burning within Holliday.

Lucky
06-01-2010, 08:00 PM
"He's way behind, he's got a long way to go to prove to this team that he knows what he's doing," Kubiak said. "I don't know how much offense he played there (at LSU), in terms of what was expected of him. There are not many specialists in this business. You better know what you're doing across the board."
Josh Cribbs broke into the league as a specialist. Wes Welker broke into the league as a specialist. Devin Hester broke into the league as a specialist. I could go on. Just because a player begins his career as a specialist, doesn't mean he will always remain one.

It's just frustrating to hear Kubiak imply that Holliday won't make the team if he can't contribute immediately on offense. How many touches will a #5 WR or #4 RB get in a season. A dozen? But you would prefer to keep that player on the roster over a returner who could get 70+ touches in a season and make a tremendous difference in field position? And say when Jacoby Jones is injured, you've not only lost our #2 or #3 WR, but your best returner?

This is another example that makes me question whether Gary Kubiak "gets" special teams and their importance. That's one of the differences between a good coordinator and a good head coach. A good head coach knows the entire game. He knows what he's doing "across the board". Not just his specialty.

b0ng
06-01-2010, 09:01 PM
Gary Kubiak let JJ break into the league as a specialist. I have no doubt that he's going to give him every opportunity to solidify himself on the roster.

Carr Bombed
06-01-2010, 09:15 PM
Josh Cribbs broke into the league as a specialist. Wes Welker broke into the league as a specialist. Devin Hester broke into the league as a specialist. I could go on. Just because a player begins his career as a specialist, doesn't mean he will always remain one.

It's just frustrating to hear Kubiak imply that Holliday won't make the team if he can't contribute immediately on offense. How many touches will a #5 WR or #4 RB get in a season. A dozen? But you would prefer to keep that player on the roster over a returner who could get 70+ touches in a season and make a tremendous difference in field position? And say when Jacoby Jones is injured, you've not only lost our #2 or #3 WR, but your best returner?

This is another example that makes me question whether Gary Kubiak "gets" special teams and their importance. That's one of the differences between a good coordinator and a good head coach. A good head coach knows the entire game. He knows what he's doing "across the board". Not just his specialty.

When did Kubiak ever imply that Holliday won't make the team? He said he has alot to prove and that can be said about any 6th round rookie, regardless of position.

I think you're reading too much into his quote. I think Kubiak is just trying to push him to be the best player he can be and that's what a good head coach does.

V3rm0nt3r
06-01-2010, 09:17 PM
Josh Cribbs broke into the league as a specialist. Wes Welker broke into the league as a specialist. Devin Hester broke into the league as a specialist. I could go on. Just because a player begins his career as a specialist, doesn't mean he will always remain one.

It's just frustrating to hear Kubiak imply that Holliday won't make the team if he can't contribute immediately on offense. How many touches will a #5 WR or #4 RB get in a season. A dozen? But you would prefer to keep that player on the roster over a returner who could get 70+ touches in a season and make a tremendous difference in field position? And say when Jacoby Jones is injured, you've not only lost our #2 or #3 WR, but your best returner?

This is another example that makes me question whether Gary Kubiak "gets" special teams and their importance. That's one of the differences between a good coordinator and a good head coach. A good head coach knows the entire game. He knows what he's doing "across the board". Not just his specialty.

I seriously doubt that Kubiak really expects that Holliday will develop into any more than a specialist but look at the position he's in as a coach. He has a long snapper that doesn't play any other position two kickers another specialist (Holliday) not to mention countless tight ends.I'm sure he's just looking to light a fire under him to help save a roster spot.

Rey
06-01-2010, 10:01 PM
I thought that the "long snapper" was gone and we had guys like Dressen and Kasey handling that...

Anyways, if Trindon lights it on fire returning kicks there is no way Kubes cuts him. No chance.

I think Kubiak is just letting him know that they want him to become a complete player. Kinda his way of keeping the pressure on him.

TimeKiller
06-01-2010, 10:09 PM
Yeah well, if the other 6th round pick doesn't impress in camp there are about 5 other OG's on this team just waiting to put him on the practice squad.

JB
06-01-2010, 10:25 PM
Josh Cribbs broke into the league as a specialist. Wes Welker broke into the league as a specialist. Devin Hester broke into the league as a specialist. I could go on. Just because a player begins his career as a specialist, doesn't mean he will always remain one.

It's just frustrating to hear Kubiak imply that Holliday won't make the team if he can't contribute immediately on offense. How many touches will a #5 WR or #4 RB get in a season. A dozen? But you would prefer to keep that player on the roster over a returner who could get 70+ touches in a season and make a tremendous difference in field position? And say when Jacoby Jones is injured, you've not only lost our #2 or #3 WR, but your best returner?

This is another example that makes me question whether Gary Kubiak "gets" special teams and their importance. That's one of the differences between a good coordinator and a good head coach. A good head coach knows the entire game. He knows what he's doing "across the board". Not just his specialty.

As C-N-D said, I think this is just Gary lighting a fire and lowering expectations...

Lucky
06-01-2010, 10:33 PM
As C-N-D said, I think this is just Gary lighting a fire and lowering expectations...
Maybe. I just think the logic behind the statement "There are not many specialists in this business" is flawed. And Holliday's not the only one who has a long way to go to prove that he knows what he's doing.

If you get my drift.

JB
06-01-2010, 10:42 PM
Maybe. I just think the logic behind the statement "There are not many specialists in this business" is flawed. And Holliday's not the only one who has a long way to go to prove that he knows what he's doing.

If you get my drift.

Yep, I get your drift just fine. And if Gary really meant that Holiday has virtually no shot at making the roster I would be very perturbed by him saying such a thing this early. But I don't take it that way.

beerlover
06-01-2010, 10:53 PM
Kubiak is sounding like he's caught up in a numbers game. I do like the sense of urgency however, should be very competitive training camp.

76Texan
06-01-2010, 11:07 PM
Kubiak is sounding like he's caught up in a numbers game. I do like the sense of urgency however, should be very competitive training camp.
I do think that Kubiak is caught up in the number game. He has already mentioned that much as our TE situation is draging along.

I've discussed briefly with badboy about Holiday and his specialist status pre-draft.

We did not go into details why we differ somewhat in opinion.

Holiday was a guy I looked at when he was a Soph and found myself cheering for him.
But there were some concerns for me looking at his Junior and Senior years.
I wanted to go back and really look at his game, but may not have the time (probably not).
I'll have some numbers to start (and those numbers better have some implications).

76Texan
06-01-2010, 11:16 PM
2006 - 14 rushes - 12.3 ypc, 1 TD - no reception
2007 - 53 rushes - 6.9 ypc, 2 TD - 2 receptions
2008 - 21 rushes - 5.4 ypc - 2 receptions, 16.5 ave.
2009 - 27 rushes - 4.7 ypc, 1 TD - 3 receptions, 12 ave.

His offensive numbers didn't look bad, but the question is why wasn't he used more?

The Tigers didn't have the greatest WRs nor the greatest RBs and yet Holiday, with his speed, can't find more time on the field?

The ncaa.org site went down (or I can't get to it).
I want to discuss his punt return numbers as opposed to his Kick-off return numbers just to show a certain point (along with a few observations in-game).
But we don't have it, so I will have to wait for another time.

dalemurphy
06-01-2010, 11:19 PM
I do think that Kubiak is caught up in the number game. He has already mentioned that much as our TE situation is draging along.

I've discussed briefly with badboy about Holiday and his specialist status pre-draft.

We did not go into details why we differ somewhat in opinion.

Holiday was a guy I looked at when he was a Soph and found myself cheering for him.
But there were some concerns for me looking at his Junior and Senior years.
I wanted to go back and really look at his game, but may not have the time (probably not).
I'll have some numbers to start (and those numbers better have some implications).

Number games in June tend to be markedly different in September. Let's see where the team is at after training camp and preseason injuries. After a couple IR's, it gets a lot easier to make the roster.

JB
06-02-2010, 12:04 AM
2006 - 14 rushes - 12.3 ypc, 1 TD - no reception
2007 - 53 rushes - 6.9 ypc, 2 TD - 2 receptions
2008 - 21 rushes - 5.4 ypc - 2 receptions, 16.5 ave.
2009 - 27 rushes - 4.7 ypc, 1 TD - 3 receptions, 12 ave.

His offensive numbers didn't look bad, but the question is why wasn't he used more?

The Tigers didn't have the greatest WRs nor the greatest RBs and yet Holiday, with his speed, can't find more time on the field?

The ncaa.org site went down (or I can't get to it).






I want to discuss his punt return numbers as opposed to his Kick-off return numbers just to show a certain point (along with a few observations in-game).
But we don't have it, so I will have to wait for another time.

This might help:

HOLLIDAY'S CAREER RUSHING STATISTICS
Year
G-GS Att. Yds. TD LG
2006
12-0 13 161 1 38
2007
13-0 53 364 2 33
2008
13-0 21 114 0 39

2009
13-0 27 133 1 19
TOTALS
51-0 114 772 4 39

HOLLIDAY'S CAREER RECEIVING STATISTICS
Year
G-GS No. Yds. TD LG
2006
12-0 0 0 0 0
2007
13-0 2 3 0 3
2008
13-0 2 33 0 15
2009
13-0 3 36 0 26
TOTALS
51-0 7 72 0 26


HOLLIDAY’S CAREER KICKOFF RETURN AND PUNT RETURN STATISTICS



KICKOFF RETURNS PUNT RETURNS
Year
No. Yds. Avg. TD LG No. Yds. Avg. TD LG
2006
5 162 32.4 1 92 1 6 6.0 0 6
2007
19 498 26.0 1 98 1 0 0 0 0
2008
27 609 22.6 0 49 21 279 13.3 1 92
2009
22 537 24.4 0 49 20 362 18.1 1 87

TOTALS
73 1,806 24.7 2 98 43 647 15.0 2 92


http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=233482

thunderkyss
06-02-2010, 12:39 AM
What good is it to have Martinez & Andre Davis on the roster?

Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, David Anderson, Jacoby Jones... Depth is great and everything, but replacing Martinez (who can be a viable receiver if we get that desperate) with Holliday is a no brainer.... IMHO. If he can't be the 5th/6th WR on the roster (Which Jacoby once was) do we really need him?

I understand the return game is a big/important part of the game, but so is depth, whether it be at RB, or WR. I think we look good (finally) at the RB position: Slaton, Tate, Foster, Moats, Jeremiah, Henry...

Guiterrez/Davis are (or should be) expendable.

If Kubiak could make him a TE or a FB I have no doubt that he would. Besides, WR are more "protected" than RBs, and the dude is 5'5" & that's probably a stretch.

thunderkyss
06-02-2010, 12:42 AM
Josh Cribbs broke into the league as a specialist. Wes Welker broke into the league as a specialist. Devin Hester broke into the league as a specialist. I could go on. Just because a player begins his career as a specialist, doesn't mean he will always remain one.


I think that is his point. Desmond Howard is commentating on College football, and I have no idea where Dante Hall is.

threetoedpete
06-02-2010, 08:08 AM
Kubiak is sounding like he's caught up in a numbers game. I do like the sense of urgency however, should be very competitive training camp.

agreed. I'm biased towards David Anderson, but I thought at the time of signing he was destined for the practice squad. I know a lot of folks have Andre Davis out the door next September....not so fast there my friend. Raw means raw.

They say if the coach is banging you you still have a shot. When they quit talking about you, better line up a realtor.

Might be they saw what happened to Wes Welker last year and had a thought it might be a good idea to have some slot insurance in 2010.

Maddict5
06-02-2010, 09:11 AM
sounds like holliday had an awful day yesterday. that quote from espn was a bit cleaned up. the actual quote from kubiak per the HT was 'he needs to show the team he knows what the hell hes doing out there', which are harsh words considering the source

also if davis & martinez get cut we'll need a new gunner as davis is our best one

BigBull17
06-02-2010, 09:15 AM
sounds like holliday had an awful day yesterday. that quote from espn was a bit cleaned up. the actual quote from kubiak per the HT was 'he needs to show the team he knows what the hell hes doing out there', which are harsh words considering the source

also if davis & martinez get cut we'll need a new gunner as davis is our best one

Something happened if Kubiak was THIS harsh on a guy. Ive never heard him do that. Wow.

gtexan02
06-02-2010, 09:24 AM
Why would you draft a 5'6" burner with a history of being a return specialist if you don't want him to be a return specialist.

Kubiak seems surprised with the player we got, even though he seems to be exactly as advertised

CloakNNNdagger
06-02-2010, 09:29 AM
I think that is his point. Desmond Howard is commentating on College football, and I have no idea where Dante Hall is.

I understand the point that you are getting at. But small speedy returner specialists are at high risk for injury in general ("suicide squad"). Injuries, which many times are not widely publicized, lead to these players going from unbelievable one or two season performances followed by sudden poor production and subsequent release. Dante Hall in 2008 sustained back to back ankle injuries........then disappeared.

GP
06-02-2010, 10:34 AM
Josh Cribbs broke into the league as a specialist. Wes Welker broke into the league as a specialist. Devin Hester broke into the league as a specialist. I could go on. Just because a player begins his career as a specialist, doesn't mean he will always remain one.

It's just frustrating to hear Kubiak imply that Holliday won't make the team if he can't contribute immediately on offense. How many touches will a #5 WR or #4 RB get in a season. A dozen? But you would prefer to keep that player on the roster over a returner who could get 70+ touches in a season and make a tremendous difference in field position? And say when Jacoby Jones is injured, you've not only lost our #2 or #3 WR, but your best returner?

This is another example that makes me question whether Gary Kubiak "gets" special teams and their importance. That's one of the differences between a good coordinator and a good head coach. A good head coach knows the entire game. He knows what he's doing "across the board". Not just his specialty.

Epic post.

Who's idea was it to put a booster seat in his chair? Ouch. This team coddled David Carr for four years, but TH is being ripped a new orifice during OTAs?

TH will contribute more to this team than David Carr did. I am also a bit shocked to hear that Kubiak wants to develop him into seeing reps as a wide receiver, correct? That's surprising.

I can see him RUNNING the ball, but out there as a WR? LOL. Bizarre, IMO. How is Schaub going to get the ball over the outstretched arms of the opposing defensive linemen, and then down into the 5'5" frame of TH? Of course, Kubiak might be talking more of pass catching out of the RB spot...where TH is catching stuff in the backfield.

This was one of those WTH? type of happenings. Kubiak's going to have the red ass all year. Let's see how many players like him THIS year. I'm betting we see a Darth Vader type of persona after last year's underwhelming effort.

IDEXAN
06-02-2010, 10:43 AM
Something happened if Kubiak was THIS harsh on a guy. Ive never heard him do that. Wow.
It's a liberty he can take with a 6th round pick. If Kareem Jackson had come to work during OTAs stumbling drunk he'd just say something like he was "really well coached" and leave it at that, since the 1st rounder are treated as primas no matter they're onfield performance.

TimeKiller
06-02-2010, 11:25 AM
Well, it's his team. He gets to say who makes the roster but if Kubiak is going to ***** about his "specialist" role right now, put him on the roster and then not have a single creative play involving TH I say we hang him by his thumbs for a public flogging. We better see the offensive genius in action. Fake/Real reverses to him, a bubble screen....something. Don't ride his ass to be something greater and then tuck him away on special teams duties. That would be what they call "Bullshit".

Also, if Davis/Martinez are cut and ousted from the gunner role I'm quite sure someone like Dickerson would be more than happy to take that big, fast frame and lay the hammer down. Or maybe Adibi/Sharpton or someone like that.

awtysst
06-02-2010, 01:34 PM
I understand the point that you are getting at. But small speedy returner specialists are at high risk for injury in general ("suicide squad"). Injuries, which many times are not widely publicized, lead to these players going from unbelievable one or two season performances followed by sudden poor production and subsequent release. Dante Hall in 2008 sustained back to back ankle injuries........then disappeared.

I get that, but at the same time I don't think anyone is expecitng him to be a longterm answer in KR/PR. If he can be half to an 1/8th of Dante Hall that would be fantastic. I mean we can always draft a burner return specialist in the 6th every other year if needbe.

V3rm0nt3r
06-02-2010, 01:44 PM
I thought that the "long snapper" was gone and we had guys like Dressen and Kasey handling that...

Anyways, if Trindon lights it on fire returning kicks there is no way Kubes cuts him. No chance.

I think Kubiak is just letting him know that they want him to become a complete player. Kinda his way of keeping the pressure on him.

Pittman's gone but he brought in a new one.

Maddict5
06-02-2010, 02:26 PM
Also, if Davis/Martinez are cut and ousted from the gunner role I'm quite sure someone like Dickerson would be more than happy to take that big, fast frame and lay the hammer down. Or maybe Adibi/Sharpton or someone like that.

if you do that expect our excellent punt return 'defence' to slip. somehow i fell replacing an excellent, speedy wr at gunner with either a raw rookie who never played gunner or a LB will affect that in a negative way

infantrycak
06-02-2010, 02:51 PM
if you do that expect our excellent punt return 'defence' to slip. somehow i fell replacing an excellent, speedy wr at gunner with either a raw rookie who never played gunner or a LB will affect that in a negative way

Raw rookie Molden was a better gunner than AD has been.

TimeKiller
06-02-2010, 03:12 PM
if you do that expect our excellent punt return 'defence' to slip. somehow i fell replacing an excellent, speedy wr at gunner with either a raw rookie who never played gunner or a LB will affect that in a negative way

Are you serious? Remember how many tackles Andre Davis made last year? Martinez made a few but who actually expects that guy to make THIS team?

Icak nailed it. Molden was a gunner deluxe.

HOU-TEX
06-02-2010, 03:18 PM
Raw rookie Molden was a better gunner than AD has been.

Are you serious? Remember how many tackles Andre Davis made last year? Martinez made a few but who actually expects that guy to make THIS team?

Icak nailed it. Molden was a gunner deluxe.

I agree with the both of you on Molden's ST play. However, I don't think he can be relied upon due to health issues. I thought Davis and Martinez both did an admirable job on ST's. I definitely think one, if not both, are on the roster bubble, but it's likely their replacements are rookies.

edit: Hmm, I think I might've rambled a bit

thunderkyss
06-02-2010, 11:35 PM
Of course, Kubiak might be talking more of pass catching out of the RB spot...where TH is catching stuff in the backfield.


I'm thinking more along the lines of the WR screens, and the reverse.

thunderkyss
06-03-2010, 12:26 AM
if you do that expect our excellent punt return 'defence' to slip. somehow i fell replacing an excellent, speedy wr at gunner with either a raw rookie who never played gunner or a LB will affect that in a negative way

Then leave Davis, and cut Martinez.

Rey
06-03-2010, 12:27 PM
If Davis is the best we can do at gunner with all the guys we have on the roster, we're in trouble.

Maddict5
06-03-2010, 01:05 PM
Raw rookie Molden was a better gunner than AD has been.

you're right- molden was a killer gunner also. himself and davis are our top 2 though in that regard and im betting joe would like both to make the 53 (& 45 on gameday) and be the two guys

thunderkyss
06-03-2010, 01:10 PM
If Davis is the best we can do at gunner with all the guys we have on the roster, we're in trouble.

But Davis is one of the fastest guys on the team. Holliday, Jacoby, Davis, AJ... maybe not in that order, but I'm sure those are the 4 fastest guys on the team.

JB
06-03-2010, 01:14 PM
But Davis is one of the fastest guys on the team. Holliday, Jacoby, Davis, AJ... maybe not in that order, but I'm sure those are the 4 fastest guys on the team.

You left off the one that may be the fastest of them all- McCain

Maddict5
06-03-2010, 03:07 PM
If Davis is the best we can do at gunner with all the guys we have on the roster, we're in trouble.

:headhurts:that makes no sense

is davis not an excellent gunner? the texans punt game is one of the best in the league in not allowing returns. how often has davis been johnny on the spot ie the first guy there to cause a fair catch/recover a fumble/catch a ball from going into touchback inside the 10 yd line

edo783
06-03-2010, 11:07 PM
Another issue that TH supposedly has is hanging on to the ball. Apparently he has dropped a pretty fair amount of kicks, Wont be much of a returner if he drops the balls that come to him.

gary
06-06-2010, 11:55 AM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6188

Lucky
06-06-2010, 12:03 PM
gary, we covered this in the Trindon Holliday thread. It still bothers me, but we'll wait for training camp & preseason to see how it plays out.

gary
06-06-2010, 12:06 PM
gary, we covered this in the Trindon Holliday thread. It still bothers me, but we'll wait for training camp & preseason to see how it plays out.Sorry about that.

rmartin65
06-06-2010, 12:37 PM
gary, we covered this in the Trindon Holliday thread. It still bothers me, but we'll wait for training camp & preseason to see how it plays out.

I was thinking about this earlier. Why would Kubiak say something like this? It seems totally out of character. I came up with two ideas.

1) He is trying to light a fire under Holliday, as others have mentioned.

or
2) He does not like the pick. He has said multiple times he likes guys who can do multiple things, and we have never carries a pure returner in the reign of Kubiak. What if Smith grabbed Holliday over the protests of Kubiak?

JB
06-06-2010, 01:00 PM
I'm thinking Gary was trying to light a fire and also he may not have been pleased with the mental progress from Holiday.

Lucky
06-06-2010, 01:14 PM
I'm thinking Gary was trying to light a fire and also he may not have been pleased with the mental progress from Holiday.
When does Kubiak decide to light a fire under Okoye?

As far as Kubiak not being completely sold on the Holliday pick, that's possible. I see it more of a Coach Joe pick than a Rick Smith pick. Marciano was probably really pushing for Holliday. Talk is cheap. If Holliday breaks some returns in preseason, he's on the team.

CloakNNNdagger
06-06-2010, 02:23 PM
When does Kubiak decide to light a fire under Okoye?

As far as Kubiak not being completely sold on the Holliday pick, that's possible. I see it more of a Coach Joe pick than a Rick Smith pick. Marciano was probably really pushing for Holliday. Talk is cheap. If Holliday breaks some returns in preseason, he's on the team.


I guess like he successfully did under Johnson and Okam? (sarcasm in case there is any question)

MojoMan
06-06-2010, 02:31 PM
When did Kubiak ever imply that Holliday won't make the team? He said he has alot to prove and that can be said about any 6th round rookie, regardless of position.

I think you're reading too much into his quote. I think Kubiak is just trying to push him to be the best player he can be and that's what a good head coach does.

I think everything you said is right. However, there a lot of good players on this team, including a number of competent punt and kick returners who also help out as receivers or defensive backs. If Holiday cannot distinguish himself as a must have player, then he may not make the team. It is actually good to know that the Texan's roster has strengthened to the point where there are not any spare or extra roster spots lying open.

CloakNNNdagger
06-06-2010, 02:31 PM
When does Kubiak decide to light a fire under Okoye?

As far as Kubiak not being completely sold on the Holliday pick, that's possible. I see it more of a Coach Joe pick than a Rick Smith pick. Marciano was probably really pushing for Holliday. Talk is cheap. If Holliday breaks some returns in preseason, he's on the team.

It, too, would not surprise me if Marciano was not given a little extra input at the late round. I also agree that if Holliday becomes a super productive return man, and that alone.............it will be much more advantageous to a team like ours than having a moderate contributor at two positions. I doubt that any clear thinking coach would see it otherwise. But here in Houston, we'll have to see how the decision making goes if Holliday becomes that consistent return threat.

dc_txtech
06-08-2010, 01:54 PM
"He's way behind, he's got a long way to go to prove to this team that he knows what he's doing," Kubiak said. "I don't know how much offense he played there (at LSU), in terms of what was expected of him. There are not many specialists in this business. You better know what you're doing across the board."

Really? You don't know how much offense he played at LSU yet you drafted him expecting him to play offense? Watch some tape maybe?

Does this bother anybody else?

CloakNNNdagger
06-08-2010, 02:26 PM
Really? You don't know how much offense he played at LSU yet you drafted him expecting him to play offense? Watch some tape maybe?

Does this bother anybody else?

"You expect me to know how LSU's offense used Holliday? Maybe, you forget I'm the head coach of the Houston Texans. Don't get me confused."...........Gary Kubiak

Rey
06-08-2010, 02:36 PM
Really? You don't know how much offense he played at LSU yet you drafted him expecting him to play offense? Watch some tape maybe?

Does this bother anybody else?

Right after that came a comma followed by, "in terms of what was expected of him".

He doesn't know what the expectations were for him in their offense. I think that is o.k. He personally can't get that in depth with every potential prospect out there. That's why they have scouts and a GM helping with the draft process. I can bet that there is somebody on the staff who can give an in depth analysis of Trindon's game at LSU and how they think it can translate to helping the Texans...

I guess I'm just saying that no, it doesn't bother me at all...

small nizzle
06-08-2010, 02:47 PM
Kubiak wont play Holliday because he doesnt want to be charged or feel guilty for involuntary manslaughter.

TH is about 5'6.If that. If he plays, he could become the first Texan to die on the field. If a team does this to him (watch video) he will be lifeflighted to methodist and put on life support(think gary coleman). Not to mention fumbling the ball and losing game for us.

Kubiak prolly thought TH was closer to 5'10 and fast. Kubiak finally meets TH and says "holy sheeshmiester, its gary coleman!"

Heres the video that if should happen to Holliday will result in a player being charged for manslaughter >


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac-JYp25Bx0&feature=related

b0ng
06-08-2010, 02:53 PM
Kubiak prolly thought TH was closer to 5'10 and fast. Kubiak finally meets TH and says "holy sheeshmiester, its gary coleman!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac-JYp25Bx0&feature=related
This is really short-sighted. I know a lot of people love to bash Kubiak, but there is no way they did not know Holliday was a mini-me.