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View Full Version : I might have talked myself into Maurkice Pouncey.


kiwitexansfan
04-05-2010, 03:17 PM
The closer the draft gets, the more I see my view on where we should be using our 1st rounder shift.

I initially was thinking DL, just because I am a big Defense first guy and there is better positional value on the line than in the secondary.

Then I went through my CJ Spiller phase, because big plays change games.... and if he were to fall to 20, I would still probably jump on him, but that looks unlikely to come to pass.

Then I started to get sucked into Earl Thomas, Kyle Wilson and even Taylor Mays. Obviously we should draft in the secondary because that is where we are the worst.

Then I did these mock drafts and saw the depth on the DL and the secondary and thought we could get some decent help there later in the draft.

Then I read all the debates about 1st round RBs and good running games, and slatonisabeast's post about the run game protecting Schaub when I realised this.....

A good run game does help our passing game, a good run game helps protect Schaub, but a good OL does both of these, as well as giving us the good run game to start with.

So that has brought me to the guy who I think (for the next half hour at least) is the best use of our 1st rounder, the best interior lineman in the draft Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida.

The following is brought to you by my favourite draft site, Mocking the Draft (http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/3/10/1362010/maurkice-pouncey-nfl-draft)

6'4 1/8, 304 pounds | Center | Florida

Awareness/Reaction: Even though Florida ran a true spread offense, Pouncey showed he can block on power and finesse plays. He's a very experienced player who started since his true freshman year at Florida. Doesn't get thrown off by defensive line shifts or when linebackers show inside pressure pre-snap. Made all the calls for the Florida offensive line.

Balance: Maintain an excellent base against defensive linemen who are equal to or less powerful than him. Doesn't let linemen get under his pads often. However, stronger nose tackles have given him problems in the past.

Initial quickness: Fires off the snap incredibly quickly. Sets with ease and doesn't take false steps in his setup. Gets his hands moving immediately and doesn't give up much to linemen.

Movement/Space: Wasn't required to move around a lot in the Gators' line scheme. Based on his combination of quickness and awareness, Pouncey shouldn't have a problem in this area, though. When he's help blocking, Pouncey doesn't get in the way of a teammate, and is a great complimentary piece.

Pass Blocking: Pouncey moves really well on his feet and shows good agility in pass protection. Properly knows how to shuffle his feet to mirror defenders. Sometimes he gets out so quickly that he lunges, particularly when a defender is coming from the second level. Needs to do a better job of always extending his arms since they're shorter than desired.

Run Blocking: Shows great hand placement in run blocking. Really gets inside of opponents. Really excels with combo blocking. Can be overpowered by strong nose tackles see the Tennessee game in 2009. Could do a better job of finishing off his blocks. Showed his worth run blocking as a guard his freshman season.

Size: Has good height and a solid build. Isn't just a big fat offensive lineman. Has a fairly athletic frame with plenty of room to grow, if needed. Arms aren't especially long, which is one of his biggest negatives.

Strength: Possesses solid strength for a center, but could get stronger. Doesn't have much of a pop in run blocking and won't knock many defenders around.

Technique: Pouncey's hand use is outstanding. He uses his hands to maintain position and anchor. Sometimes he gets too high in his stance and strong defensive linemen can push him around. Has a slight tendency to lunge block at moving defenders. Snapped out of the shotgun a majority of the time and may need to develop more on his snap technique.

Final word: Pouncey is far and away the best center prospect in this year's draft. He started 39 games in three seasons for Florida, playing in 41 total. For his efforts, he was named an All-American and the winner of the Rimington Award in 2009. Pouncey's best asset is his quickness and athleticism. He gets out of his stance smoothly and sets up nicely. A few tweaks here or there and Pouncey should be solid 10-year starter in the NFL.

http://www.gatorsportsnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/610x1.jpg

painekiller
04-05-2010, 03:33 PM
Here is another view of Pouncey, not saying this is the correct view just another voice to add to your research.

[quote]Maurkice Pouncey OC Florida
TALENT BOARD

Round 5





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



STRENGTHS

Maurkice has decent size to maybe be a solid offensive lineman in the right system for the next level. He shows good upper body strength and when he gets his hands on you, he is very tough to get away from and, at times, can dominate his opponent. Maurkice is quick out of his stance and does an excellent job snapping the ball for a spread or shotgun offense.



NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Maurkice has a lot of very bad habits that he's developed because of his athletic limitations -- ones that will be magnified at the next level. His stance is poor. His left leg is ahead of his right leg, which means he is off-balance from the snap. He lacks lateral agility and the ability to change directions unless he is holding on to his opponent. He gives away the plays by leaning back in his stance on passing plays and leaning forward on running plays. You can tell this by looking at his butt and head level on each play. He struggles going out to the next level unless the LB is standing still so that he can be blocked. He does not change protections to protect the QB. Against Arkansas they blitz right up the middle all game long. He does not combo block at all and does not come off his block in the passing game to help cover the middle on a blitz. He lacks foot speed to be used in a pulling offensive line system. He could fit a zone blocking scheme in run protection, but that still leaves his limitations in the passing game as a problem. He does not direct the offensive line at all or call out overloads on the defensive line. Maurkice does not seem to change the blocking scheme at all once it is set. Of course, in this offense, he might not be asked to do that at all.



BOTTOM LINE

I just do not understand why Maurkice is considered by some people as the best center in this draft! I see maybe a right guard for the next level or a player who hangs onto the long snapper's job, but right now I do not see a starting center for an NFL team. I do respect the fact that this kid has played for a high level program at the college level, but with all of his limitations, his LTI is way out there. I was careful to list all of the reasons why I do not think very highly of Maurkice for the next level because I know I'll have to take "one for the team" on this profile. Maybe Maurkice can develop better lateral agility and change of direction skills. Maybe a good line coach can teach him about protections and put him in a system that will mask his limitations. I can see him starting for some teams. But those teams would be teams that think they can "coach this kid up". Maurkice is not an impact offensive lineman. I see a serviceable right guard in a system that uses tight splits and has a good blocking back to help him out in pass protection. That means Maurkice is a systems offensive lineman with long snapping abilities.

Drew Boylhart 1/10
[/qoute]

Not everyone likes Boyhart, but I like having as many views by guys who watch tape as I can get.

kiwitexansfan
04-05-2010, 04:56 PM
I've been looking around for any other dissenting views on Pouncey and he seems to be the only one.

I guess sometimes people just like to write contrary view points to drum up interest or something....

Pouncey isn't perfect, but he fits our needs, our system and is widely lauded as the best centre in the draft (if not the last several drafts.)

Goldensilence
04-05-2010, 04:58 PM
At 20? I don't know. I think I'd rather get Iupati at 20.

However, if we do trade back with say, San Diego at 25. I can totally get on board with solidifying the interior of our OL for a long time.

kiwitexansfan
04-05-2010, 05:01 PM
At 20? I don't know. I think I'd rather get Iupati at 20.

However, if we do trade back with say, San Diego at 25. I can totally get on board with solidifying the interior of our OL for a long time.

I'm not really feeling the Iupati love. I think he is more of a project player than an immediate impact player.

I also rate Centre pretty highly in regards to positional value, guards not so much. That is why Pouncey is higher for me than Iupati.

painekiller
04-05-2010, 05:09 PM
I'm not really feeling the Iupati love. I think he is more of a project player than an immediate impact player.

I also rate Centre pretty highly in regards to positional value, guards not so much. That is why Pouncey is higher for me than Iupati.

When I watched the 1st quarter of the senior bowl, I agreed with you on Iupati, but watch the other 3 quarters when they put him back at LG, his natural position and he was a stud.

Go ask Carlos Lee to hit left handed and see how bad he looks. It can be the same for a football player. 3 days of practice is not enough time for many guys to get comfortable with the mirror image moves.

Iupati is a solid mid 1st round guy, and Pouncey is more a 2nd rounder maybe late 1st round player, IMO.

LikeMike
04-05-2010, 05:15 PM
I like Pouncey, but he would be a bit of a reach at 20... if we can trade back I could see us going with him, but if we stay at 20 I think there are other guys with a higher value.

kiwitexansfan
04-05-2010, 05:20 PM
I didn't see the Senior Bowl, from reports I heard of Iupati's play, he struggled in pass protection and looked powerful but raw.

I don't really like raw and potential to be words used around first rounders.

Push come to shove, he's a guard, and guards shouldn't go in the first round.

Texan4Ever
04-05-2010, 05:25 PM
Maurkice Pouncey would be a good selection, but not at #20. If we trade down a few picks and then take him then I would be okay with it because he is an immediate upgrade to what we have.

I doubt he falls to us but Trent Williams would be a nice pickup. He can play almost anywhere on the offensive line and even played a bit of guard and center. He is aggressive and has a powerful punch and uses his hands better then anyone.

Goldensilence
04-05-2010, 05:39 PM
I'm not really feeling the Iupati love. I think he is more of a project player than an immediate impact player.

I also rate Centre pretty highly in regards to positional value, guards not so much. That is why Pouncey is higher for me than Iupati.

I'd put him at likely at LG. Move Caldwell back to Center where he was an All-American for Alabama and move Smith to RG....I would be willing to bet we'd get push up the middle for sure.

IMO either way I'd love to take Iupati or Pouncey in the first. I think whomever we take in the second or third as a RB would benefit from those guys being able to open holes and Schaub could actually step up into a pocket in the passing game.

Far as rating guards....just look what adding Hutchinson at guard did for the Vikes running game and how it destroyed Seattle's.

Corrosion
04-05-2010, 05:58 PM
I dont see Pouncy as a reach at 20 especially considering that he could go to at least two teams picking in front of the Texans - San Fran and Pittsburgh. Those same two teams are looking at Iupati. Its possible that bith could be gone when the Texans pick.

Just look what taking a top flight center in round 1 did for the Jets with Nick Mangold.

76Texan
04-05-2010, 06:23 PM
When I watched the 1st quarter of the senior bowl, I agreed with you on Iupati, but watch the other 3 quarters when they put him back at LG, his natural position and he was a stud.

Iupati is a solid mid 1st round guy, and Pouncey is more a 2nd rounder maybe late 1st round player, IMO.
I agree with PK.
This is what I saw in the Senior Bowl and a couple of other games where Iupati played LG.

Pouncey lost a few too many one-on-one battles against various DTs that I've seen to be considered an elite C to be drafted in the first.
A 2nd round grade is more appropriate, IMO.

In the SEC, I was more impressed with a Jr, William Vlachos.
He played better than Caldwell in his Sr. year.
Vlachos small stature may pull him down comes next draft.
If that's the case, he should be a great value on the second day of the draft.

He lost a few one-on-one battles as well, but fewer than I've seen Pouncey.
On the second level, you should see what he did to Brandon Spikes.
(Too bad, he's out of spring football due to foot surgery.)
I will be checking him out next year, along with Barrett jones, the Tides' emerging Fr. RG.

Wolf6151
04-05-2010, 06:26 PM
If Thomas and Wilson are gone then I'd take him. I'd prefer Pouncey after a trade down, for better value, but I'd have no problem taking him at #20. Pouncey would anchor our O-line for the next 10-15 yrs. In the 1st round you look for players that are a sure thing with immediate impact ability and will contribute for years to come and Pouncey fits all of these traits.

76Texan
04-05-2010, 06:28 PM
I'd put him (Pouncey ) at likely at LG. Move Caldwell back to Center where he was an All-American for Alabama and move Smith to RG....I would be willing to bet we'd get push up the middle for sure.


Sorry, but I don't see that!

I've seen Smith lose 14 individual matchups at G in one game (and I am being generous in my counting.)

Goldensilence
04-05-2010, 07:24 PM
Sorry, but I don't see that!

I've seen Smith lose 14 individual matchups at G in one game (and I am being generous in my counting.)

You might not see it, but I doubt they would've signed Smith to the deal they did to have him play backup. Unless you think this is another Jordan Black signing.

I also don't see how much hard it would be to supplant Studdard or White aside from Kubiak wanting them on the roster.

I think it'd have to be someone clearly better in Kubiak's mind as well to knock Myers from starting center.

Wolf6151
04-05-2010, 08:30 PM
I could see Pouncey playing LG for a year and learning the blocking schemes beside Myers and then taking over from him the following year. I also can't help but think that Myers has blackmail photos of Kubiak, why else would he be starting.

kiwitexansfan
04-05-2010, 08:40 PM
Caldwell and Pouncey on the line = a lot of smarts and versatility.

stingray
04-05-2010, 08:44 PM
I'd rather have Asamoah in the second.

Blake
04-05-2010, 08:59 PM
Pass. I would love the guy in the 2nd, but we need our best shot at an impact player at either CB, FS, or RB.

justmy2cents
04-06-2010, 12:54 AM
Here is another few of Pouncey, not saying this is the correct view just another voice to add to your research.

[quote]Maurkice Pouncey OC Florida
TALENT BOARD

Round 5





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



STRENGTHS

Maurkice has decent size to maybe be a solid offensive lineman in the right system for the next level. He shows good upper body strength and when he gets his hands on you, he is very tough to get away from and, at times, can dominate his opponent. Maurkice is quick out of his stance and does an excellent job snapping the ball for a spread or shotgun offense.



NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Maurkice has a lot of very bad habits that he's developed because of his athletic limitations -- ones that will be magnified at the next level. His stance is poor. His left leg is ahead of his right leg, which means he is off-balance from the snap. He lacks lateral agility and the ability to change directions unless he is holding on to his opponent. He gives away the plays by leaning back in his stance on passing plays and leaning forward on running plays. You can tell this by looking at his butt and head level on each play. He struggles going out to the next level unless the LB is standing still so that he can be blocked. He does not change protections to protect the QB. Against Arkansas they blitz right up the middle all game long. He does not combo block at all and does not come off his block in the passing game to help cover the middle on a blitz. He lacks foot speed to be used in a pulling offensive line system. He could fit a zone blocking scheme in run protection, but that still leaves his limitations in the passing game as a problem. He does not direct the offensive line at all or call out overloads on the defensive line. Maurkice does not seem to change the blocking scheme at all once it is set. Of course, in this offense, he might not be asked to do that at all.



BOTTOM LINE

I just do not understand why Maurkice is considered by some people as the best center in this draft! I see maybe a right guard for the next level or a player who hangs onto the long snapper's job, but right now I do not see a starting center for an NFL team. I do respect the fact that this kid has played for a high level program at the college level, but with all of his limitations, his LTI is way out there. I was careful to list all of the reasons why I do not think very highly of Maurkice for the next level because I know I'll have to take "one for the team" on this profile. Maybe Maurkice can develop better lateral agility and change of direction skills. Maybe a good line coach can teach him about protections and put him in a system that will mask his limitations. I can see him starting for some teams. But those teams would be teams that think they can "coach this kid up". Maurkice is not an impact offensive lineman. I see a serviceable right guard in a system that uses tight splits and has a good blocking back to help him out in pass protection. That means Maurkice is a systems offensive lineman with long snapping abilities.

Drew Boylhart 1/10
[/qoute]

Not everyone likes Boyhart, but I like having as many views by guys who watch tape as I can get.



Drew Boylhart's 5th rd projection astonishes me. I don't know about #20, but I'd give him #155 and take #30 and play closies @ 100 to 1 odds for everything I own! BTW, I would love to see him at our center position ... for that matter, I love to see Asamoah at LG ... what an excellent line ... but I'm just as sure we'll never see it !

Ole Miss Texan
04-06-2010, 02:18 AM
Drew Boylhart's 5th rd projection astonishes me. I don't know about #20, but I'd give him #155 and take #30 and play closies @ 100 to 1 odds for everything I own! BTW, I would love to see him at our center position ... for that matter, I love to see Asamoah at LG ... what an excellent line ... but I'm just as sure we'll never see it !
Kind of confusing but his grades aren't where he thinks a player is going to get drafted but primarily based on their LTI (Length To Impact) or how they may impact the game. For example, he may have some players listed as "Round 1" meaning they're a player that can come in and immediately impact your team like a 1st rounder should but in reality they probably won't get drafted until later. I think he calls it his Talent Board.

justmy2cents
04-06-2010, 06:49 AM
Kind of confusing but his grades aren't where he thinks a player is going to get drafted but primarily based on their LTI (Length To Impact) or how they may impact the game. For example, he may have some players listed as "Round 1" meaning they're a player that can come in and immediately impact your team like a 1st rounder should but in reality they probably won't get drafted until later. I think he calls it his Talent Board.



At least a couple if not several prognosticators say that part of his value is that he can come in and start from day one ... but then I suppose that may depend more on what you have as an alternative.

IDEXAN
04-06-2010, 08:19 AM
Drew Boylhart's 5th rd projection astonishes me. I don't know about #20, but I'd give him #155 and take #30 and play closies @ 100 to 1 odds for everything I own! BTW, I would love to see him at our center position ... for that matter, I love to see Asamoah at LG ... what an excellent line ... but I'm just as sure we'll never see it !
See this Boylhart guy (whoever the hell he is ?) completely undercuts his own credibility when he says Pouncy is a fifth round prospect or the best he can hope for is to nail down the long-snapper position on an NFL team.
If he'd said that Pouncy is more of a third-round prospect then I might pay attention to his remarks, but Pouncy is virtually the unanimous choice as the best center coming out this year and the best interior lineman in the Draft after Idahos Iupati. But rating Pouncy as a fith-rounder is ridiculous, really silly and leads one to wonder what kind of side-issue Boylhardt might have with Pouncy or more likely Pouncys agent ?
In the meantime Pouncy is one more player I'm taking before Ryan Mathews with the Texans top pick.

threetoedpete
04-06-2010, 09:27 AM
Maurkice Pouncey would be a good selection, but not at #20. If we trade down a few picks and then take him then I would be okay with it because he is an immediate upgrade to what we have.

I doubt he falls to us but Trent Williams would be a nice pickup. He can play almost anywhere on the offensive line and even played a bit of guard and center. He is aggressive and has a powerful punch and uses his hands better then anyone.

Funny they were just saying in the middle of the McNabb frenzy on NFLn, that one of their, the Eagles options in the up coming draft was taking the Poundster with the twenty four, finishing thier o-line. So he's not good enough for the Texans at twenty but he is for the Iggles at 24 ?

The reason the poundster is probably not on our board is because they just took a high end pivot man in Caldwell last year in the third. They just signed Will Smith for ? insurance, competition ? Point being they are loaded with guard center prospects on the roster. I think there are better odds they take a WR or TE than they are they will take another C/G in this draft now with the Smith signing. Some teams value high end o-line prospects. and some don't. Go figure.

steelbtexan
04-06-2010, 10:11 AM
The teams that value high end OL prospects are called winning teams. (Jets,Vikings for example)

While I think Pouncey will be a 10 year starter, Asamoah is a better fit and can do everything Pouncey can do. The greater value is Asamoah in the 2nd rather than Pouncey in the 1st. IMHO

dalemurphy
04-06-2010, 10:56 AM
The teams that value high end OL prospects are called winning teams. (Jets,Vikings for example)

While I think Pouncey will be a 10 year starter, Asamoah is a better fit and can do everything Pouncey can do. The greater value is Asamoah in the 2nd rather than Pouncey in the 1st. IMHO

Pouncey seems to be a limited athlete. So, I wouldn't want to take an interior olineman that high unless he had the potential to be an absolute beast! But, if we traded down 8 or 10 spots, I'd feel pretty good about it.

The Pencil Neck
04-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Pouncey seems to be a limited athlete. So, I wouldn't want to take an interior olineman that high unless he had the potential to be an absolute beast! But, if we traded down 8 or 10 spots, I'd feel pretty good about it.

I don't know. I've got a different philosophy about this.

If you think a guy fits your team better than anyone else available and you think he's not going to be available at your next pick and you can't trade back, you take him. 8-10 spots means nothing, you've got to look in terms of 32 spots or however many spots until you get your next pick.

If Pouncey is the guy and he's not going to be there at 51, then Pouncey is just as much the guy at 28 as he is at 20. If you can trade back and pick up some picks, great. Do it. But if you can't, you still pull the trigger.

You don't pick some other guy just because he's less of a reach. You pick that other guy because you think he's going to be better for your team. And if that guy is better for your team, then Pouncey wasn't the guy to begin with.

Brisco_County
04-06-2010, 12:45 PM
If we're trying to draft a center, we're not doing it in the 1st round. For one thing, there are almost no centers this year who are worth that slot. Secondly, there's no certainty that an interior guy can adjust to the position at the next level, and we won't take that gamble with our first pick. Thirdly, there is higher rated talent for other positions in this draft.

Also, hypothetically, if we had the opportunity to choose between Iupati and Pouncey for center, we'd take Pouncey since he'd be a better communicator.

painekiller
04-06-2010, 04:07 PM
See this Boylhart guy (whoever the hell he is ?) completely undercuts his own credibility when he says Pouncy is a fifth round prospect or the best he can hope for is to nail down the long-snapper position on an NFL team.
If he'd said that Pouncy is more of a third-round prospect then I might pay attention to his remarks, but Pouncy is virtually the unanimous choice as the best center coming out this year and the best interior lineman in the Draft after Idahos Iupati. But rating Pouncy as a fith-rounder is ridiculous, really silly and leads one to wonder what kind of side-issue Boylhardt might have with Pouncy or more likely Pouncys agent ?
In the meantime Pouncy is one more player I'm taking before Ryan Mathews with the Texans top pick.

I've been reading Boylhart for about 7 years now, and he has a pretty strong track record. Does he miss sometimes, yes he does.

gwallaia
04-06-2010, 04:10 PM
http://www.gatorsportsnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/610x1.jpg

Is that a Madden screen shot or an actual photo?

kiwitexansfan
04-07-2010, 12:30 AM
Is that a Madden screen shot or an actual photo?

Actual photo as far as I know.

76Texan
04-07-2010, 02:30 AM
Alex Mack was drafted at #21 last year.
He blew out all the competition during Sr Bowl practice.
He was considered very strong, power lifting 374 lbs.
He ran 5 flat in the 40 at the combine
He was touted to be the best Center prospect in 25 years by Walterfootball.
He was named the Pac-10 Conference's Scholar-Athlete of the Year in 2008, having earned league academic honor roll recognition four times while attending Cal.

And you want Pouncey at #20?

76Texan
04-07-2010, 02:42 AM
You might not see it, but I doubt they would've signed Smith to the deal they did to have him play backup. Unless you think this is another Jordan Black signing.

I also don't see how much hard it would be to supplant Studdard or White aside from Kubiak wanting them on the roster.

I think it'd have to be someone clearly better in Kubiak's mind as well to knock Myers from starting center.

Smith, Studdard, Caldwell and White all played better toward the end of the season.

Smith probably is the more balance guy overall (at G) power/speed/agility/etc. of the bunch.

He's far from I-95.
But he will have to play his best football yet to earn that money though, as I see it.

Goldensilence
04-07-2010, 03:10 AM
Smith, Studdard, Caldwell and White all played better toward the end of the season.

Smith probably is the more balance guy overall (at G) power/speed/agility/etc. of the bunch.

He's far from I-95.
But he will have to play his best football yet to earn that money though, as I see it.

I'm assuming on that first line you meant Myers. Playing better towards the end of the season doesn't equate we're solid with Studdard and White as backups and Myers at starter.

Still think despite your assessment of Smith the FO wouldn't have signed him to the deal they did if they didn't feel he was capable of grabbing one of the guard spots. Especially with Pitts likely not returning and Brisiel's status not clear either.

The Jordan Black reference was part humor part, sarcasm, and part rehashing a bad memory. I don't think Smith is close to I-95, but it would be apt partially if he indeed does get relegated to backup duty.