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El Tejano
03-23-2010, 08:24 AM
Dolphins | Ross not limiting Parcells' spending
Comment (0)
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:02:07 -0700

Tim Graham, of ESPN.com, reports Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross said he does not get involved in even the biggest decisions about his cash with the organization. Ross said, "I'm putting my money with (vice president of football operations) Bill Parcells and our organization. Nobody bats 1.000. I just look at the bottom line and end results and where we are and what we're spending. The results are in the won-loss record." Ross added, "I don't try to micromanage him. You can't look at every dollar you spend. One thing I found out: Sports is different than business. From a businessman, when it comes to what you do for paying players, you have to have a little different discipline than you'd otherwise have."



Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl#ixzz0j0QKcVZR

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2010, 08:47 AM
Bob wouldn't even pony up the money to pay Parcells much less give him the money that Parcells wants to spend on players. Not a good analogy.

When you hire Parcells, you have to realize that he is smarter than you and that he is going to want to get who he wants and he doesn't want to get nickel and dimed like Bob has a tendency to do.

Rest assured, if Parcells had a hole at CB and RB and had been forced to get rid of a $10-12 million dollar contract (Dunta), he wouldn't be sitting on his hands and ignoring the problems like our current management is. He would address the issues at least temporarily, and then go into the draft without so many damn needs.

It sounds like the new Miami ownership group gets it...maybe one day Bob will.

but good luck with Reeves as your #1 CB, McNair. Thats gonna work out real well.

HOU-TEX
03-23-2010, 08:59 AM
Hey, another post about Bob and money. To my surprise, the resident knee-jerk GM is the first to respond. How quaint

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2010, 09:08 AM
truth hurts. reeves is our #1 db. you can't spin that and its that way because we wouldn't pay the money to either keep Dunta or lure another player away.

if you want to spin that and act like everything is fine, that is your prerogative.

if you want to blame Smith for not replacing Dunta, fine. if you want to blame Kubiak for not replacing Dunta, fine. I just happen to blame Bob for not replacing him because it was a $$ decision.

but Bob can put that $12 million into his pocket and not put it back into the team...I am sure that will improve the team.

you can act like I am a jerk about Bob, but I am just telling the truth. The Texans didn't improve this offseason. They got worse. How is that good?

Yeah, we might help ourselves in the draft but we had enough holes going into this offseason than to have ourselves create another one by releasing Dunta and not paying the Dunta money to someone else to replace him. now we have ANOTHER hole to fill in the draft.

How is that good? Oh thats right, Bob brough football back to Houston as charity so he gets a pass. After all, he has only made about a $500 million return on his investment so far. He needs to watch his bottom line...while watch the team bottom out...again.

This smells like the 7-9 offseason that lead to the 2-14 season. Don't say I didn't warn ya.

Texan_Bill
03-23-2010, 09:14 AM
http://limewoody.files.wordpress.com/2006/04/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg

-Or- Another version

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/DVANDERM/not_this_shit_again.jpg


:dontknowa

:facepalm:

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2010, 09:19 AM
its kinda funny that you can't defend Bob's actions so you just try and act like I am going off the deep end on this.

let me repeat TB, Reeves is now our #1 CB. the draft isn't going to change that. scrapheap free agency isn't going to change that. but we only have Peyton Manning in our division, we don't need a corner. After all, we already drafted Mario to beat Peyton and we all know how well that has worked out for us....

but dunta wrote on his shoes and he held out of camp, so losing him is good even though he wasn't replaced.

yeah, thats some winning logic there. sometimes the truth hurts, bill....but blaming me for hitting the wakeup call isn't going to not make Reeves our #1 CB.

BIG TORO
03-23-2010, 09:21 AM
truth hurts. reeves is our #1 db. you can't spin that and its that way because we wouldn't pay the money to either keep Dunta or lure another player away.

if you want to spin that and act like everything is fine, that is your prerogative.

if you want to blame Smith for not replacing Dunta, fine. if you want to blame Kubiak for not replacing Dunta, fine. I just happen to blame Bob for not replacing him because it was a $$ decision.

but Bob can put that $12 million into his pocket and not put it back into the team...I am sure that will improve the team.

you can act like I am a jerk about Bob, but I am just telling the truth. The Texans didn't improve this offseason. They got worse. How is that good?

Yeah, we might help ourselves in the draft but we had enough holes going into this offseason than to have ourselves create another one by releasing Dunta and not paying the Dunta money to someone else to replace him. now we have ANOTHER hole to fill in the draft.

How is that good? Oh thats right, Bob brough football back to Houston as charity so he gets a pass. After all, he has only made about a $500 million return on his investment so far. He needs to watch his bottom line...while watch the team bottom out...again.

This smells like the 7-9 offseason that lead to the 2-14 season. Don't say I didn't warn ya.

As chelsea handler would say"Why you so angry girl?"

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2010, 09:27 AM
As chelsea handler would say"Why you so angry girl?"

because the Texans didn't improve this offseason in FA and in fact, got worse.

but Bob is a ggggrrrreeeeaaaatttt owner.....yeah right. oh and when you don't have football in 2011 you can thank Bob for that too. he is the hardliner of the hardline owners in these labor non-talks.

*rolls eyes*

buddyboy
03-23-2010, 09:27 AM
its kinda funny that you can't defend Bob's actions so you just try and act like I am going off the deep end on this.

let me repeat TB, Reeves is now our #1 CB. the draft isn't going to change that. scrapheap free agency isn't going to change that. but we only have Peyton Manning in our division, we don't need a corner. After all, we already drafted Mario to beat Peyton and we all know how well that has worked out for us....

but dunta wrote on his shoes and he held out of camp, so losing him is good even though he wasn't replaced.

yeah, thats some winning logic there. sometimes the truth hurts, bill....but blaming me for hitting the wakeup call isn't going to not make Reeves our #1 CB.

Let me just ask for the sake of asking: a) Was Dunta worth 12 million and b) Would you feel great about going into next year with Dunta as our number 1 corner?

If the answer is yes to both, then fine, complain. But personally, I don't think he was worth the 12 million, and I think he was an average number 1 corner last year.

El Tejano
03-23-2010, 09:30 AM
Dunta has had more than his share of chances to contribute to wins against Peyton Manning. Maybe now it will make it harder for Peyton Manning on 3rd and 13 since he won't have the reliable "throw it up in the air and get a Pass Interference courtesy of Dunta play"

b0ng
03-23-2010, 09:31 AM
Picture representation that Second Honeymoon has no idea what he/she speaks of:
http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/b0ngerz/NFLtotalspending-1.gif


Yeah, bob doesn't spend money. Also, the moon is made of cheese and elvis is still alive.

Texan_Bill
03-23-2010, 09:32 AM
its kinda funny that you can't defend Bob's actions so you just try and act like I am going off the deep end on this.

let me repeat TB, Reeves is now our #1 CB. the draft isn't going to change that. scrapheap free agency isn't going to change that. but we only have Peyton Manning in our division, we don't need a corner. After all, we already drafted Mario to beat Peyton and we all know how well that has worked out for us....

but dunta wrote on his shoes and he held out of camp, so losing him is good even though he wasn't replaced.

yeah, thats some winning logic there. sometimes the truth hurts, bill....but blaming me for hitting the wakeup call isn't going to not make Reeves our #1 CB.

Dude, seriously you're a broken record. You think Bob is cheap because he didn't waste $12 mill on an average cornerback. You think he's cheap because he hasn't thrown ridiculous money into free agency...

News flash Mr. Braniac, what does it say to you when an average (at best) cornerback is the biggest free agent on the market?? What it says is that this season's crop of free agents SUCK!!!

Don't even bother replying, because I (and everyone else who's been a member for more than a week) already know what your :blah: :blah: response will be.

For the record, I will take my chances with Petey Reeves and Petey Quinn over paying that douche.bag $12 mill. Dude, can't cover, misses tackles and makes no plays. How many picks does cat have? 13 in 7 seasons.... Oh yeah, 6 of those came his rookie season. Phillip Buchanon thinks Dunta sucks.

TexCanada
03-23-2010, 09:34 AM
because the Texans didn't improve this offseason in FA and in fact, got worse.

but Bob is a ggggrrrreeeeaaaatttt owner.....yeah right. oh and when you don't have football in 2011 you can thank Bob for that too. he is the hardliner of the hardline owners in these labor non-talks.

*rolls eyes*

There were next to no free agents on the market that would improve our secondary for a decent price. Over-paying people is how you set your team up for failure for years to come. It is quite possible that our team didn't improve this year, and that we will once again be sitting just outside of playoffs, but I would rather have that then to have D-Rob locked down with a huge contract.

Patience, smart spending and good scouting are what makes a good franchise, not paying free agents large sums of money.

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2010, 09:35 AM
Let me just ask for the sake of asking: a) Was Dunta worth 12 million and b) Would you feel great about going into next year with Dunta as our number 1 corner?

If the answer is yes to both, then fine, complain. But personally, I don't think he was worth the 12 million, and I think he was an average number 1 corner last year.

in an uncapped year with no strings attached or long term guarantees, Dunta would be worth $12 million to keep him....especially if you aren't going to put the $12 you saved back into the club.

i don't care how much a player makes for the most part, i just care if the team is improving. this move may have made Bob more profit, but it didn't improve the product on the field. and yes I would feel MUCH better with Dunta as our #1 as opposed to moving everyoen up the depth chart. If our secondary was so bad last year, how is it going to get better by dropping our best corner? magic?

trust me, i get what you are saying about him not playing up to his contract, but that stuff happens. you gotta pay to play and this team's secondary is in shambles now more than it was before. just paying him the money to keep him for one year wouldn't have hurt at all, and we could have had less holes going into the draft. how is that stinkin' thinkin'?

Wolf
03-23-2010, 09:38 AM
problem is SH you pay Dunta 12 million, how much do you think a real shut down corner is going to cost?

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2010, 09:39 AM
Dude, seriously you're a broken record. You think Bob is cheap because he didn't waste $12 mill on an average cornerback. You think he's cheap because he hasn't thrown ridiculous money into free agency...

News flash Mr. Braniac, what does it say to you when an average (at best) cornerback is the biggest free agent on the market?? What it says is that this season's crop of free agents SUCK!!!

Don't even bother replying, because I (and everyone else who's been a member for more than a week) already know what your :blah: :blah: response will be.

For the record, I will take my chances with Petey Reeves and Petey Quinn over paying that douche.bag $12 mill. Dude, can't cover, misses tackles and makes no plays. How many picks does cat have? 13 in 7 seasons.... Oh yeah, 6 of those came his rookie season. Phillip Buchanon thinks Dunta sucks.

whatever man, we know your peepee hurts because I am calling Bob out for being cheap and not retaining our best corner. its obvious that with a lot of you its personal regarding Dunta. I get that, but keep homering for your charity boy Bob. He just gave you 9-7. start the parade. and after all he donated $700 million to bring football back...oh wait he didn't donate it...and oh wait, now the team is worth nearly 1.2 billion. That is only $500 million increase in 7 years...if that is charity, I want some of that stuff.

yeah but Dunta sucks....too bad the rest of the NFL (i.e. people smarter than you) don't agree with you.

b0ng
03-23-2010, 09:39 AM
In before "I'm so persecuted because I speak the truth".

Wolf
03-23-2010, 09:40 AM
for the record, I want to see the sum of the parts before I blast Bob.

Demeco still needs a contract and frankly Pollard was A LOT more valuable to that secondary than Dunta is or ever was)

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2010, 09:40 AM
There were next to no free agents on the market that would improve our secondary for a decent price. Over-paying people is how you set your team up for failure for years to come. It is quite possible that our team didn't improve this year, and that we will once again be sitting just outside of playoffs, but I would rather have that then to have D-Rob locked down with a huge contract.

Patience, smart spending and good scouting are what makes a good franchise, not paying free agents large sums of money.

I didn't want to lock up Dunta to a longterm deal. We held the cards and could have had him for another year with no strings attached.

how does that screw us in the long term? how does that affect the salary cap? newsflash, no cap in 2010....but in order to maximize profit the Texans are acting as if there is a cap in place.

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2010, 09:41 AM
In before "I'm so persecuted because I speak the truth".

make another avatar about Mario...if you want to talk about overpaid just look Mario's way....

...but he was drafted to beat Peyton and the Colts...thats worked out real well for us.

JB
03-23-2010, 09:41 AM
Why do you think that the secondary will not be addressed? There is still a lot of time in FA and some decent RFA out there. It is a month before the draft. I think it will be addressed in the draft and also in FA, probably after the draft. Unless there is a RFA out there they really want. Your gloom & doom must be very satisfying to you, but it has no basis in fact. Just your opinion, which is like everyone's else.

Shaft75
03-23-2010, 09:42 AM
Why did I click on this thread?

HOU-TEX
03-23-2010, 09:43 AM
truth hurts. reeves is our #1 db. you can't spin that and its that way because we wouldn't pay the money to either keep Dunta or lure another player away.

if you want to spin that and act like everything is fine, that is your prerogative.

if you want to blame Smith for not replacing Dunta, fine. if you want to blame Kubiak for not replacing Dunta, fine. I just happen to blame Bob for not replacing him because it was a $$ decision.

but Bob can put that $12 million into his pocket and not put it back into the team...I am sure that will improve the team.

you can act like I am a jerk about Bob, but I am just telling the truth. The Texans didn't improve this offseason. They got worse. How is that good?

Yeah, we might help ourselves in the draft but we had enough holes going into this offseason than to have ourselves create another one by releasing Dunta and not paying the Dunta money to someone else to replace him. now we have ANOTHER hole to fill in the draft.

How is that good? Oh thats right, Bob brough football back to Houston as charity so he gets a pass. After all, he has only made about a $500 million return on his investment so far. He needs to watch his bottom line...while watch the team bottom out...again.

This smells like the 7-9 offseason that lead to the 2-14 season. Don't say I didn't warn ya.

First off, I'm not spinning diddly. I never said everything's fine, nor did I say I'm happy with our DB situation. Do not try to put words in peoples mouths while regurgitating your never-ending McNair rant.

I could care less how you feel about Bob, dude. I'm just one of the few hundred that are sick and tired of reading your posts about your thoughts on him. We know, brah, you think he's cheap.

In the end, you haven't a clue what goes on within the organization. Nor do the rest of us

b0ng
03-23-2010, 09:44 AM
make another avatar about Mario...if you want to talk about overpaid just look Mario's way....

...but he was drafted to beat Peyton and the Colts...thats worked out real well for us.

First bob is cheap, then you talk about actual contributors being "overpaid" while simultaneously talking about throwing 12 million dollars twoards a washed-up corner. You are the epitome of skip bayless trying to get a reaction, goodbye.

EDIT: To further add to this, you are basically just spinning your wheels trying to bash the owner of the Texans in just about every thread on the first page of this forum. You are resorting to playing the "I'm so persecuted blah blah blah, truth, blah blah blah" and it's tiring. I already know what you're going to post, so seeing this when you post:

Old 4 Minutes Ago
Remove user from ignore list
Second Honeymoon
This message is hidden because Second Honeymoon is on your ignore list.

Is just as good. You are now in the same boat as wonderful poster Hersheybar and 2blu4u. Way to go, and I'll see you when the season starts and you've already lost your mind and come back to reality.

Ole Miss Texan
03-23-2010, 09:45 AM
but good luck with Reeves as your #1 CB, McNair.

reeves is our #1 db.

let me repeat TB, Reeves is now our #1 CB.

sometimes the truth hurts, bill....but blaming me for hitting the wakeup call isn't going to not make Reeves our #1 CB.

I'm not going to get into the way McNair is running the team or how "cheap" he is. You're not getting a response to it because that arguement has been hashed out extensively and pretty much squashed with the Texans being the #3 team in payroll last year.

But I do want to comment to the above comments of yours that I quoted.
Reeves isn't our #1 CB.... Glover Quin is. :heh:

Wolf
03-23-2010, 09:46 AM
Didn't I read that the Texans were in the top 5 in payroll ?

:thinking:

Texan_Bill
03-23-2010, 09:52 AM
whatever man, we know your peepee hurts because I am calling Bob out for being cheap and not retaining our best corner. its obvious that with a lot of you its personal regarding Dunta. I get that, but keep homering for your charity boy Bob. He just gave you 9-7. start the parade. and after all he donated $700 million to bring football back...oh wait he didn't donate it...and oh wait, now the team is worth nearly 1.2 billion. That is only $500 million increase in 7 years...if that is charity, I want some of that stuff.

yeah but Dunta sucks....too bad the rest of the NFL (i.e. people smarter than you) don't agree with you.

Are you intentionally obtuse?

You once stated that you were "highly educated". Apparently business was not your major. Businesses typically operate within a budget. If businesses go on wild spending sprees, they typically fail. Business 101.

News flash: OUR (former) BEST CORNER IS AVERAGE AT BEST. HE'S NOT WORTH $12, 10, HELL, EVEN $ 5 MILLION PER YEAR. Of course some dumbass team like Atlanta would overpay for him. Teams typically do overpay for DB's. But I don't care about the Falcons and I certainly don't care that Drew Brees got a chubby the second the Falcons signed Robinson.

SPENDING MONEY FOR THE SAKE OF SPENDING MONEY IS CRAZY STUPID irrespective of next year's cap situation. Again, see Business 101 above.

Texan_Bill
03-23-2010, 09:53 AM
Didn't I read that the Texans were in the top 5 in payroll ?

:thinking:

That's too cheap. They need to be #1 in payroll, and they can get there quick if they were to blow $12 million on mediocre players. :gun:

Wolf
03-23-2010, 09:56 AM
Dunta was best when he had Aaron Glenn across from him and then on 3rd down the Texans were able to move Dunta into the slot and do different things with him like corner blitzes


:photos:

Second Honeymoon
03-23-2010, 09:58 AM
I'm not going to get into the way McNair is running the team or how "cheap" he is. You're not getting a response to it because that arguement has been hashed out extensively and pretty much squashed with the Texans being the #3 team in payroll last year.

But I do want to comment to the above comments of yours that I quoted.
Reeves isn't our #1 CB.... Glover Quin is. :heh:

they paid for dunta last year
not being cheap and trying to improMM
they didn't pay for dunta this year
being cheap and not trying to improve

I am talking about this year...last year they paid dunta big and added smith
good offseason but not this year..just sayin

IMHO I feel they are being too complacent

b0ng
03-23-2010, 10:02 AM
Didn't I read that the Texans were in the top 5 in payroll ?

:thinking:

You actually saw it in a graph in this very thread! Imagine that!

Wolf
03-23-2010, 10:03 AM
how is that cheap, every team does that, when a player is getting paid more than he is worth.. unfortunately he has to be let go.. another team (as we have seen the Texans do) overpay for a player (like the falcons are doing) because they just need someone


12 million for a player that hasn't been in a probowl ...is not being cheap it is being desperate

yes the Texans paid Dunta so they can see what he had left in the tank after a horrific injury..hell the Texans paid Carr to see what Gary could do for him also

Texans_Chick
03-23-2010, 10:18 AM
Dolphins | Ross not limiting Parcells' spending
Comment (0)
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:02:07 -0700

Tim Graham, of ESPN.com, reports Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross said he does not get involved in even the biggest decisions about his cash with the organization. Ross said, "I'm putting my money with (vice president of football operations) Bill Parcells and our organization. Nobody bats 1.000. I just look at the bottom line and end results and where we are and what we're spending. The results are in the won-loss record." Ross added, "I don't try to micromanage him. You can't look at every dollar you spend. One thing I found out: Sports is different than business. From a businessman, when it comes to what you do for paying players, you have to have a little different discipline than you'd otherwise have."



Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl#ixzz0j0QKcVZR


FWIW, in talking to members of the coaching staff, they have told me that Bob McNair gives them pretty much all the resources they ask for on the football side of things. They say he is a generous owner who doesn't meddle, who wants football people running football things--McNair wants to know whats going on, but wants NFL folks running the show..

Though they have an internal budget (which they've talked about publicly, and a lot of teams have talked about--poor talk is what most teams are doing with the labor negotiations going on), McNair is not a cheapass owner no matter what people want to say about it.

They've made long term offers to players, ones that were rejected. There are a lot of teams that are not extending deals past the possible lockout date. To make judgments based on weird CBA times, is weird.

Big Lou
03-23-2010, 10:30 AM
Dunta has had more than his share of chances to contribute to wins against Peyton Manning. Maybe now it will make it harder for Peyton Manning on 3rd and 13 since he won't have the reliable "throw it up in the air and get a Pass Interference courtesy of Dunta play"

THIS!!!

We got better wen Dumbta left. If I had Bill Gate's money I wouldn't have given Robinson the money Atlanta gave him. Shit I wouldn't have given him half of that. Petey was a better value.

BigBull17
03-23-2010, 10:47 AM
its kinda funny that you can't defend Bob's actions so you just try and act like I am going off the deep end on this.

let me repeat TB, Reeves is now our #1 CB. the draft isn't going to change that. scrapheap free agency isn't going to change that. but we only have Peyton Manning in our division, we don't need a corner. After all, we already drafted Mario to beat Peyton and we all know how well that has worked out for us....

but dunta wrote on his shoes and he held out of camp, so losing him is good even though he wasn't replaced.

yeah, thats some winning logic there. sometimes the truth hurts, bill....but blaming me for hitting the wakeup call isn't going to not make Reeves our #1 CB.

Though I'm glad Dunta's little overrated ass is out of here, I am a little unhappy that we have acted like the strike has already started. Go out and grab Sharper. Or at least extend Demeco. Do something thats not Wade Smith. Glad we resigned Walter, but do something. I guess I kinda see it, since I don't think we have all that many holes, but shit.

dtran04
03-23-2010, 11:03 AM
So who is Bill Parcells blowing all of this money on? You mean he decided to be cheap and pass on Julius Peppers? Man he sucks. :)

Brando
03-23-2010, 11:18 AM
Hey, another post about Bob and money. To my surprise, the resident knee-jerk GM is the first to respond. How quaint


Like flies on *******

infantrycak
03-23-2010, 11:20 AM
So who is Bill Parcells blowing all of this money on? You mean he decided to be cheap and pass on Julius Peppers? Man he sucks. :)

They signed Karlos Dansby from Arizona and Joey Porter went to Arizona. So far that has been their only significant move.

disaacks3
03-23-2010, 11:49 AM
In response to SH - I don't necessarily agree that the TEXANS got worse. I certainly agree that our DB situation is worse, but we're also getting back OD, and we've picked up another O-lineman.

I'm not sure McNair is to blame for our non-signings as much as Smith is responsible for setting the offer. Was I mad that we didn't get Bodden? You bet, but I blame the Texans organization (as a whole) for that, as I can't determine who caused us to lowball him.

HOU-TEX
03-23-2010, 12:00 PM
In response to SH - I don't necessarily agree that the TEXANS got worse. I certainly agree that our DB situation is worse, but we're also getting back OD, and we've picked up another O-lineman.

I'm not sure McNair is to blame for our non-signings as much as Smith is responsible for setting the offer. Was I mad that we didn't get Bodden? You bet, but I blame the Texans organization (as a whole) for that, as I can't determine who caused us to lowball him.

And who's to say we low-balled him? From what I gather, he took our offer back to the Pats to match. We don't really know what happened. Which is my entire point to 'Knee-jerk GM'. He hasn't a clue of the going-on's inside the organization, so why act like he knows and states it as fact? Hence the nickname 'Knee-jerk GM'

steelbtexan
03-23-2010, 12:27 PM
The Texans have gotten worse this offseason that's a fact. But its's early in the offseason. I will make my judgement when I see the roster in TC.

SH you're right about McNair being one of the most hardliners of the hardliners. If there's no football in 2011 you can bet McNair had a big hand in that.

McNair is a businessman who happens to own a football team. Business will always come 1st. I've come to accept that and you should too. Either that or find another team to root for.

It is what it is. You shouldn't worry yourself over things like this. Life is to short for things like that. Even though I agree with alot of what you say.

If McNair is giving Smithiak free rein as some have suggested, then they have done a pi** poor job of using their resources. IMHO

Texan_Bill
03-23-2010, 12:34 PM
The Texans have gotten worse this offseason that's a fact. But its's early in the offseason. I will make my judgement when I see the roster in TC.

SH you're right about McNair being one of the most hardliners of the hardliners. If there's no football in 2011 you can bet McNair had a big hand in that.

McNair is a businessman who happens to own a football team. Business will always come 1st. I've come to accept that and you should too. Either that or find another team to root for.

It is what it is. You shouldn't worry yourself over things like this. Life is to short for things like that. Even though I agree with alot of what you say.

If McNair is giving Smithiak free rein as some have suggested, then they have done a pi** poor job of using their resources. IMHO

Not unlike 30 other team's owners. The 31st team is owned by shareholders formulating a corporation that's run by a board of directors. Point being, it's all business.

GP
03-23-2010, 12:51 PM
The Texans have gotten worse this offseason that's a fact. But its's early in the offseason. I will make my judgement when I see the roster in TC.

SH you're right about McNair being one of the most hardliners of the hardliners. If there's no football in 2011 you can bet McNair had a big hand in that.

McNair is a businessman who happens to own a football team. Business will always come 1st. I've come to accept that and you should too. Either that or find another team to root for.

It is what it is. You shouldn't worry yourself over things like this. Life is to short for things like that. Even though I agree with alot of what you say.

If McNair is giving Smithiak free rein as some have suggested, then they have done a pi** poor job of using their resources. IMHO

See, I count myself as being someone who thinks Bob definitely has a bigger role in the decisions than what is being portrayed.

He is a good businessman. Those types of guys are always going to have their hand into things.

Yeah, other businessman owners (which describes all NFL team owners) are trying to turn a profit. Duh. But some are a bit more dedicated to the business side, IMO. I count McNair as being one who trends toward making sure he gets his, pulling out all the stops to make sure that his team is one of the most "profitable." Profits = Quality in his mind.

Then we see reallllllllly bad, emotionally-invested decision-making with Carr and Dunta. Those two contracts have GOT to be solely upon the check-writing hand of Bob McNair. He's doling out the superstar money, trying to reward those players whom he thinks were "faces of the franchise." Because I don't see Smithiak offering THAT sort of one-year deal to those two guys. I just don't see it. I think they would be more along the lines of "Oh yeah? Get real."

I mean, none of us are truly on the inside of this team's front office and the way things are done. They are very quiet. No leaking of vital information. They have a rough relationship with the local media. All that's left is rumors and speculation.

So I speculate that McNair is not the "hobby owner" that's been crafted for him. He and his guys have done an excellent job of painting him as this quiet, unassuming man who is loyal and stays out of the way.

I don't buy it.

Blake
03-23-2010, 12:57 PM
Fine, dont franchise Dunta, or get any high priced free agents.

But for the love of God lock up Demeco Ryans!

GP
03-23-2010, 01:06 PM
Fine, dont franchise Dunta, or get any high priced free agents.

But for the love of God lock up Demeco Ryans!

Which is what begs the question: If McNair isn't "cheap," then why hasn't he rewarded at least DeMeco Ryans?

I understand the OD situation. Ryans should have had his deal done. Yesterday.

I don't care about 2011. If McNair dishes out the cash for David Freaking Carr or Dunta Fracking Robinson, why-oh-why would you not do a new deal for a guy who made your defense BETTER?!?! And consistently better, I might add. You know which defensive player actually made the defense consistently better, and which one made what I can only describe as a "marginal" improvement to the defense. It's simple.

So this is puzzling. It's maddening.

He tosses out bags of money to goons, but is tight-fisted with a couple of guys who arguably are a big reason the team has done so well. You guys all know who the two "goons" are, and you all know who the two "deserving" players are. It's simple. So it seems, at least.

It's almost as if you are taught that excelling on the Texans is not going to be rewarded. Reward, to McNair, is a subjective thing. A subjective thing that we typically use when we talk about the quirky decision-making of guys like Al Davis.

Texans_Chick
03-23-2010, 01:18 PM
Which is what begs the question: If McNair isn't "cheap," then why hasn't he rewarded at least DeMeco Ryans?

I understand the OD situation. Ryans should have had his deal done. Yesterday.

I don't care about 2011. If McNair dishes out the cash for David Freaking Carr or Dunta Fracking Robinson, why-oh-why would you not do a new deal for a guy who made your defense BETTER?!?! And consistently better, I might add. You know which defensive player actually made the defense consistently better, and which one made what I can only describe as a "marginal" improvement to the defense. It's simple.

So this is puzzling. It's maddening.

He tosses out bags of money to goons, but is tight-fisted with a couple of guys who arguably are a big reason the team has done so well. You guys all know who the two "goons" are, and you all know who the two "deserving" players are. It's simple. So it seems, at least.

It's almost as if you are taught that excelling on the Texans is not going to be rewarded. Reward, to McNair, is a subjective thing. A subjective thing that we typically use when we talk about the quirky decision-making of guys like Al Davis.

It is not easy structuring contracts around the lockout situation. This is not a situation that is unique to the Texans.

The Texans have signed contracts with existing players who have performed well for them, but contracts have to work for both parties and want to be signed by both. Eric Winston is smart because he worked out a contract extension early--he was in the same situation that OD and Ryans were in, but he and the Texans worked out mutually agreeable terms early. Texans get a player, he gets stability.

In other words, pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered. If a player is holding out for every dime even though they have no leverage, then they assume the risk that a contract won't get done or that they will get injured. We do not know what the terms of the deals offered to Ryans and OD were. They didn't like them, they didn't sign them. To put all of this on the Texans for being cheap is absurd--you can reward players without throwing silly money at them.

The labor uncertainty makes difficult contract negotiations more difficult.

HOU-TEX
03-23-2010, 01:34 PM
Fine, dont franchise Dunta, or get any high priced free agents.

But for the love of God lock up Demeco Ryans!

Now this I can definitely agree with, dadgummit!!!

I think it'll get done eventually. They've already stated FA and the draft are what they're focused on now. Just get the darn thing done before the season, because we now know they don't usually negotiate contracts during the season.

painekiller
03-23-2010, 02:02 PM
truth hurts. reeves is our #1 db. you can't spin that and its that way because we wouldn't pay the money to either keep Dunta or lure another player away.

Paying top dollar for average talent is what got Casserly run out of town. And now you are preaching the same stuff. I say the smartest move they made was letting the over paid Robinson go. Atlanta is going to regret that signing just like the 49ers regret the signing of Nate Clements.

This team is to far away to put that kind of money into a player that is heading down and was a lighting rod of the fans scorn. Smith is building a solid young team and this season FA all suck, which is why you are not seeing a lot of big deals being signed. Stay with the plan of building through the draft...

Blake
03-23-2010, 02:18 PM
Which is what begs the question: If McNair isn't "cheap," then why hasn't he rewarded at least DeMeco Ryans?

I understand the OD situation. Ryans should have had his deal done. Yesterday.

I don't care about 2011. If McNair dishes out the cash for David Freaking Carr or Dunta Fracking Robinson, why-oh-why would you not do a new deal for a guy who made your defense BETTER?!?! And consistently better, I might add. You know which defensive player actually made the defense consistently better, and which one made what I can only describe as a "marginal" improvement to the defense. It's simple.

So this is puzzling. It's maddening.

He tosses out bags of money to goons, but is tight-fisted with a couple of guys who arguably are a big reason the team has done so well. You guys all know who the two "goons" are, and you all know who the two "deserving" players are. It's simple. So it seems, at least.

It's almost as if you are taught that excelling on the Texans is not going to be rewarded. Reward, to McNair, is a subjective thing. A subjective thing that we typically use when we talk about the quirky decision-making of guys like Al Davis.

The Texans are promoting the ideas that nice guys finish last, and the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Ole Miss Texan
03-23-2010, 02:32 PM
If Smith would have re-signed Demeco already, it would have taken a lot of time away from looking at free agents. Who knows how much time has been spent discussing various player, entertaining Bodden, Smith, etc. If he would have re-signed Demeco, we'd be hearing "great job extenind Demeco but he's already on the team!!! We need free agents added to this team. Sign those guys first before other teams do then come back to Demeco this offseason once FA has cooled down!"

playa465
03-23-2010, 02:52 PM
Not to beat the dead horse but SH, what makes you think it wasn't Smith's or Kubiak's decision not to bring Dunta back. I think your focus it at the wrong person(s). I understand what you are saying (pay Dunta $12M or whatever for 1 yr in an uncapped season or spend on someone else). But what kind of message does that give other players who are performing better, especially when the cap comes back. Also, as far as free agency I don't think may players want a 1yr deal even if it is large. Most of them want something long term so they can have financial security at the same or higher level of income that they enjoy now. So it isn't as simple as taking Dunta's old salary and handing it to someone else.

Texanmike02
03-23-2010, 03:04 PM
A non playmaking Daunta ~ every other CB on our team. Is Jaque Reeves that much worse than Daunta? If he's not making tackles up field he's just not that special.

IMHO of course.

Mike

Texanmike02
03-23-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't care about 2011. If McNair dishes out the cash for David Freaking Carr or Dunta Fracking Robinson, why-oh-why would you not do a new deal for a guy who made your defense BETTER?!?! And consistently better, I might add. You know which defensive player actually made the defense consistently better, and which one made what I can only describe as a "marginal" improvement to the defense. It's simple.


OK and so maybe he's learned not to jump out? And you don't care about 2021 ok fine.. wait you said 2011.. um.. I do... I don't want a deal that @$^#s us up in 1 year. Yeah.. gather as much information as you can.. and then make the call.

Mike

GP
03-23-2010, 03:21 PM
OK and so maybe he's learned not to jump out? And you don't care about 2021 ok fine.. wait you said 2011.. um.. I do... I don't want a deal that @$^#s us up in 1 year. Yeah.. gather as much information as you can.. and then make the call.

Mike

I don't think signing one of the two best defensive players (And they both reside at the position of LB) is going to turn us upside down with the cap.

Did Ryans and Daniels decline the offers made? Yes. What if the terms were absurd, and it meant that they would have a hard time earning all of the contract? What if it was declined over the amount of the bonus?

In a sense, we don't know what the terms are.

But in another sense, we see that Dunta robinson was paid almost $10 million for one season. After he blew his leg muscle off the bone the previous season, AND was griping about being disrespected. In my book, that means Smith and McNair were not on the same page and Bob won THAT battle.

If we can't reward a guy like DeMeco Ryans, I might have to look for another team. I was wondering how he would perform in 2009, when he HAD to show if his heart was still here or if he was going to pout and loaf all season. well, he put up his end of the deal. He should have been our first off-season move, even though he technically didn't need to be re-structured this off-season.

It sends a message that QUALITY is rewarded. Not the subjective bullsnark that is David Carr and Dunta Robinson. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but to some people...it's not a duck.

Go figure.

GP
03-23-2010, 03:29 PM
By the way, we can't count (without a huge abacus) how many times people have expressed such GLEE over how much cap space we're going to clear at x-point in time and how we're going to spend it in y-amount of time on z-player(s).

The Colts and Peyton Manning re-structured Manning's deal so that they could afford a player that they felt would make them better. IIRC, it made the Colts only about $100,000-or-so under the cap.

I really am a bit skeptical about the claims that Uncle Bob is hands-off on stuff. I think he pinches a buffalo nickel until it farts, and I think Kubiak and Smith are about the same type of person when it all gets boiled down. I think it's a trio of guys who essentially have about the same philosophy: We're smarter than everyone else, and so whatever we do--even if it's unconventional or cheap or whatever--is going to be better, solely because we know what we're doing. We're going to make it OUR way, as the song goes...

Maybe it's why they don't leak information and they have a weird relationship with the media. They don't like to be questioned. They don't want to be scrutinized. So the less information that's out there, the less Bob's "brand" is potentially attacked and devalued. They also use this tactic so that the media lobs meat pitches to them: Keeps the media playing "nice" because you obviously don't want to be shut out any more than you already are.

Man, I get depressed just thinking about all this. I really think this whole house of cards is going to come tumbling down next season. I don't think they can keep up this way of doing things, with the players they have. Just my thoughts on it. I don't have a good hunch.

El Tejano
03-23-2010, 03:46 PM
Man, this place is going to explode when we don't select even the prospects everyone thinks we are going to select in the draft.

What's worse is, we will one day see AJ playing for another team if this keeps up.

Blake
03-23-2010, 03:53 PM
Man, this place is going to explode when we don't select even the prospects everyone thinks we are going to select in the draft.

What's worse is, we will one day see AJ playing for another team if this keeps up.

Or even worse, winning a ring with another franchise. :panic:

playa465
03-23-2010, 04:27 PM
Man, this place is going to explode when we don't select even the prospects everyone thinks we are going to select in the draft.


LOL, I hear ya

What's worse is, we will one day see AJ playing for another team if this keeps up.

Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, Joe Montana, Brett Favre etc...left the team they were successful with...if AJ ever leaves we will cry and move on. :cry2:

redwhiteANDblue
03-23-2010, 04:38 PM
I predict Reeves will be the leagues top shutdown corner. :kitten:

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2010, 04:59 PM
I think it's a trio of guys who essentially have about the same philosophy: We're smarter than everyone else, and so whatever we do--even if it's unconventional or cheap or whatever--is going to be better, solely because we know what we're doing. We're going to make it OUR way, as the song goes...

Maybe it's why they don't leak information and they have a weird relationship with the media. They don't like to be questioned. They don't want to be scrutinized. So the less information that's out there, the less Bob's "brand" is potentially attacked and devalued. They also use this tactic so that the media lobs meat pitches to them: Keeps the media playing "nice" because you obviously don't want to be shut out any more than you already are.


You have basically just described 32 teams.

But, let me get this straight, you think that a football team's management should have a free and easy and honest relationship with the media. You think that a football team's management should talk to the media and tell them the truth about what they're thinking and what they're planning. And you think the Texans shutting the media out to keep people from saying "bad" things about the team?

That just makes no sense to me.

No coach or GM or owner should give the media "real" information because if they do that on more than a rare basis, then other teams will be able to get that information and use it in their planning and strategy.

As a fan, even though I want to know every thought about the team going through their heads, I should never really know the plans of the team beyond what I can discern and deduce from what I see on the field. I shouldn't know what they think are the strengths and weaknesses of the team and what they're going to draft for or who they're going after in FA or what they're offering this player or that player.

Texans_Chick
03-23-2010, 05:09 PM
But in another sense, we see that Dunta robinson was paid almost $10 million for one season. After he blew his leg muscle off the bone the previous season, AND was griping about being disrespected. In my book, that means Smith and McNair were not on the same page and Bob won THAT battle.

I am not understanding your logic at all.

They kept Dunta last year because he was going to leave with no compensation and they didn't have a replacement for him. They drafted a replacement, and his franchise number was going to be even higher and crazier if they couldn't agree to a long term deal. They bought themselves the opportunity of 1 year to see if they wanted to pay Dunta long term money to stay. Their answer was no.

I don't see how that suggests that Smith/McNair are not on the same page.

They have acknowledged that they want to work out deals with OD/Ryans. But it takes two to tango.

I do not think that the Texans relationship with the media is particularly unusual other then their media relations people are extra nice. The Texans talk more than a lot of organizations do, but just don't care to air their dirty laundry and I don't blame them.

GP
03-24-2010, 08:56 AM
I am not understanding your logic at all.

They kept Dunta last year because he was going to leave with no compensation and they didn't have a replacement for him. They drafted a replacement, and his franchise number was going to be even higher and crazier if they couldn't agree to a long term deal. They bought themselves the opportunity of 1 year to see if they wanted to pay Dunta long term money to stay. Their answer was no.

I don't see how that suggests that Smith/McNair are not on the same page.

They have acknowledged that they want to work out deals with OD/Ryans. But it takes two to tango.

I do not think that the Texans relationship with the media is particularly unusual other then their media relations people are extra nice. The Texans talk more than a lot of organizations do, but just don't care to air their dirty laundry and I don't blame them.

$10 million for one year. That's absurd money, for o-n-e year. And, it was coming off (a) an injury and (b) him holding out for camp and preseason games. I'm failing to see how a player can get rewarded with that much cash for one year. It really confuses me.

Hence the "subjective reward system" theory.

We seem to do fine with trotting out some scraps at RB, would it have hurt it any worse to not have $10 million Dunta Robinson out there at CB? We could have used that $10 million on, oh, say....someone like Cedric Benson who might have made a real difference at another need position.

But our Texans Trio combined their brain power and came up with paying $10 million to Dunta Robinson?

I think the average Texans fan looks at that and scratches his head. He does the simple math, when comparing it to the Owen Daniels and DeMeco Ryans situations. It doesn't compute. Or at least that's how I feel about it.

GP
03-24-2010, 09:06 AM
TC:

On a side-note, I think you do a good job of mining information from sources who are connected.

From the things I read from you, it sounds like you have built a rapport with sources, especially players. And I think the media will always be a little less trusted by the Texans management and the players, to some degree, because the newspaper/radio/TV industry has an selfish angle of breaking a story and getting eyeballs to focus on their pieces. But you come across as respecting the team, respecting the players, and it shows in the final product.

Therefore, I do think that the Houston media are always behind the eight-ball a little bit.

I think you and aj do a great job of bringing quality news items to the fan base.

infantrycak
03-24-2010, 10:09 AM
$10 million for one year. That's absurd money, for o-n-e year. And, it was coming off (a) an injury and (b) him holding out for camp and preseason games. I'm failing to see how a player can get rewarded with that much cash for one year. It really confuses me.

Hence the "subjective reward system" theory.

You didn't address TC's key point - how does any of this reflect a disconnect between Smith and McNair?

badboy
03-24-2010, 10:14 AM
Bob wouldn't even pony up the money to pay Parcells much less give him the money that Parcells wants to spend on players. Not a good analogy.

When you hire Parcells, you have to realize that he is smarter than you and that he is going to want to get who he wants and he doesn't want to get nickel and dimed like Bob has a tendency to do.

Rest assured, if Parcells had a hole at CB and RB and had been forced to get rid of a $10-12 million dollar contract (Dunta), he wouldn't be sitting on his hands and ignoring the problems like our current management is. He would address the issues at least temporarily, and then go into the draft without so many damn needs.

It sounds like the new Miami ownership group gets it...maybe one day Bob will.

but good luck with Reeves as your #1 CB, McNair. Thats gonna work out real well.The issue I have with you is you take assumptions you make and state them as facts. For example, you say Reeves is our best CB and he might not be. Will not know until we see how Quin and even McCain do. You might be right but you might not. You assume that all of us should see DR the way you do and get agitated if we don't. It comes across to me and evidently others that you think we are stupid if we do not agree with you. Your philosphy seems to be "spend money on something even if there is no indication the 'something' will work". There was little to choose in free agency and the draft is commonly known as the best way to improve a team. Yet you are saying McNair flubbed it by allowing his management people to decide to address the needs of the team through what is thought to be a deep draft. We may be uniquely postioned to have player(s) available at our pick that could be turned in to more picks through a trade down.

You seem angry that many of us are ok with allowing DR to leave. It is an opinion. You have historically made mention of the owner being "cheap" despite facts proving you incorrrect and you just keep on bulldozing.

In my opinion, the upcoming draft offers CBs that could be our starting CB against the opponent's #1 WR. So far, I agree with the moves made by management concerning free agency, Dunta, our FA & even retaining Kubiac. If the areas of need that the team has identified are not addressed in draft, I will speak my opinion as I did after last draft when a power back was not selected. It will be only an opinion not fact.

JB
03-24-2010, 10:22 AM
The issue I have with you is you take assumptions you make and state them as facts. For example, you say Reeves is our best CB and he might not be. Will not know until we see how Quin and even McCain do. You might be right but you might not. You assume that all of us should see DR the way you do and get agitated if we don't. It comes across to me and evidently others that you think we are stupid if we do not agree with you. Your philosphy seems to be "spend money on something even if there is no indication the 'something' will work". There was little to choose in free agency and the draft is commonly known as the best way to improve a team. Yet you are saying McNair flubbed it by allowing his management people to decide to address the needs of the team through what is thought to be a deep draft. We may be uniquely postioned to have player(s) available at our pick that could be turned in to more picks through a trade down.

You seem angry that many of us are ok with allowing DR to leave. It is an opinion. You have historically made mention of the owner being "cheap" despite facts proving you incorrrect and you just keep on bulldozing.

In my opinion, the upcoming draft offers CBs that could be our starting CB against the opponent's #1 WR. So far, I agree with the moves made by management concerning free agency, Dunta, our FA & even retaining Kubiac. If the areas of need that the team has identified are not addressed in draft, I will speak my opinion as I did after last draft when a power back was not selected. It will be only an opinion not fact.

Well Said! It's all getting a little old

The Pencil Neck
03-24-2010, 10:22 AM
$10 million for one year. That's absurd money, for o-n-e year. And, it was coming off (a) an injury and (b) him holding out for camp and preseason games. I'm failing to see how a player can get rewarded with that much cash for one year. It really confuses me.

Hence the "subjective reward system" theory.

We seem to do fine with trotting out some scraps at RB, would it have hurt it any worse to not have $10 million Dunta Robinson out there at CB? We could have used that $10 million on, oh, say....someone like Cedric Benson who might have made a real difference at another need position.

But our Texans Trio combined their brain power and came up with paying $10 million to Dunta Robinson?

I think the average Texans fan looks at that and scratches his head. He does the simple math, when comparing it to the Owen Daniels and DeMeco Ryans situations. It doesn't compute. Or at least that's how I feel about it.

Most fans wanted him franchised. Many fans wanted him franchised a second time.

The thing is that Dunta was asking for almost that much money on a yearly basis and our braintrust didn't give it to him. They said it was too much. And they let him walk and then some fans complain that they're being cheap.

I agree with TC that the progress of events was something like this (with some additions of my own):
1. RS offered DR what he thought was a more than fair offer and he expected DR to accept it. RS told DR he wasn't going to franchise him because RS expected DR to be pleased with the offer.
2. DR did not accept it and asked for more.
3. RS franchised DR to allow us to concentrate on CB in the draft to try to find someone to groom (Quin, McCain) to improve the CB position for when DR left.
4. Angry at being franchised, DR played the franchised season.
5. After the season, RS let DR go instead of paying him more because RS/GK didn't think DR was worth the money AND thought that the CB position wouldn't suffer too much with DR's departure.

If I understand what you're saying
1. McNair told RS to keep DR whatever the cost.
2. RS franchised DR and paid him crazy money.
3. McNair wanted DR to be franchised again for even crazier money but RS misunderstood him and/or screwed up and didn't franchise DR a second time?

I'm just not following your logic. I don't think there was any disconnect. I don't think there was any miscommunication. And I don't think McNair had anything to do with other than being kept in the loop.

GP
03-24-2010, 10:29 AM
You didn't address TC's key point - how does any of this reflect a disconnect between Smith and McNair?

The things I have read about Rick Smith...he doesn't seem like the guy who would pay Dunta Robinson $10 million for one season, coming off a nasty leg injury AND the absence from camp & preseason games shenangians. I think they wanted to try and get compensation for Dunta, just as they tried to trade David Carr and found out that David wasn't going to play that game with them. At the end of the day, guys, I think Bob McNair has a few players he wants to make sure get treated royally so that it reflects well on the image and brand of the Texans. Smithiak? They are trying to win games and get good value while not giving up much.

From the way things "appear," since we really don't know the 100% straight-scoop on how the Texans Trio (McNair, Smith, Kubiak) go about the decision-making process, it "appears" to me that Kubiak and Smith think fairly similar, with Smith doing the dirty work on keeping contracts as cheap and team-friendly as possible.

I think Kubiak wanted Benson, but Smith's contract budget (possibly set by Bob, but who really knows? LOL) didn't like the terms and conditions--Benson said he wanted a chance to get signifcant snaps, IIRC. Couple that with the ability of the Bengals to outdo the Texans in the salary area, and well...not able to seal the deal on a guy I think Kubiak wanted.

We got Antonio Smith for what is considered to be a pretty good value, at least in terms of it being team-friendly as far as free agent contracts are concerned.

So it just appears that Smithiak played hardball with Dunta, using the tag and maybe even considering tagging him again to get compensation for him. I think, honestly, that Smithiak was ready to unload Dunta and tried to tag him last off-season to maybe get something for him (remember: Smith was there with Kubiak during the We-Got-Schaub-From-Atlanta presser, saying they were trying to find a place to TRADE David Carr to). Smithiak wants to pay as little as they can, and yet get all that they can for THEIR price.

Carr and Dunta are clearly Bob's little pet "spending project," IMO. At the end of the day, McNair overrides Smithiak and chooses to bless those whom he wants to bless...regardless of merit.

I don't know how I can spell out, any more clearly, my stance on this. Do I have proof? No. I have observations from watching how things went down in the past, how things go down now, and how all of us know things are going to go down tomorrow and every day afterward.

Smithiak plays hardball (i.e. OD and Ryans contract talks, as well as tagging Dunta) and McNair is the big softy who writes the checks and will intervene if he wants to, for whatever subjective reason he deems to be logical. For him.

infantrycak
03-24-2010, 10:37 AM
Carr and Dunta are clearly Bob's little pet "spending project," IMO. At the end of the day, McNair overrides Smithiak and chooses to bless those whom he wants to bless...regardless of merit.

I don't know how I can spell out, any more clearly, my stance on this. Do I have proof? No.

And there is where you run off the tracks. There is nothing whatsoever to say Smith and Kubiak were not in favor of franchising Dunta last year and weren't in favor this year of letting him go. And rather than just supposition try considering this. Last year there were no CBs rated highly enough to be taken with our 1st round pick. This year there are. Maybe that had something to do with it. But whatever, you have a tendency to think you can read minds. Entertaining off-season fodder.

The Pencil Neck
03-24-2010, 10:40 AM
The things I have read about Rick Smith...he doesn't seem like the guy who would pay Dunta Robinson $10 million for one season, coming off a nasty leg injury AND the absence from camp & preseason games shenangians.

From the way things "appear," since we really don't know the 100% straight-scoop on how the Texans Trio (McNair, Smith, Kubiak) go about the decision-making process, it "appears" to me that Kubiak and Smith think fairly similar, with Smith doing the dirty work on keeping contracts as cheap and team-friendly as possible.

I think Kubiak wanted Benson, but Smith's contract budget didn't like the terms and conditions (Benson said he wanted a chance to get signifcant snaps, IIRC).

We got Antonio Smith for what is considered to be a pretty good value, at least in terms of it being team-friendly as far as free agent contracts are concerned.

So it just appears that Smithiak played hardball with Dunta, using the tag and maybe even considering tagging him again to get compensation for him. I think, honestly, that Smithiak was ready to unload Dunta and tried to tag him last off-season to maybe get something for him (remember: Smith was there with Kubiak during the We-Got-Schaub-From-Atlanta presser, saying they were trying to find a place to TRADE David Carr to). Smithiak wants to pay as little as they can, and yet get all that they can for THEIR price.

Carr and Dunta are clearly Bob's little pet "spending project," IMO. At the end of the day, McNair overrides Smithiak and chooses to bless those whom he wants to bless...regardless of merit.

I don't know how I can spell out, any more clearly, my stance on this. Do I have proof? No. I have observations from watching how things went down in the past, how things go down now, and how all of us know things are going to go down tomorrow and every day afterward.

Smithiak plays hardball (i.e. OD and Ryans contract talks, as well as tagging Dunta) and McNair is the big softy who writes the checks and will intervene if he wants to, for whatever subjective reason he deems to be logical. For him.

I think RS was ticked off for having to pay DR $10,000,000 for a year to keep him around as a security blanket. BUT he did it because circumstances forced him into that situation. Not McNair, just the fact that they didn't have enough talent at CB to take the hit of DR leaving. They needed to find some talent and groom it in a hurry.

I think we didn't get Benson because Benson wanted to be #1 and we already had a #1 in Slaton. So we offered him the #2 spot and Benson refused. That had nothing to do with the contract. We offered him a #2 contract.

I don't think McNair had anything to do with Dunta being franchised. I don't see that at all.

And I want my FO playing hardball with the contracts. I've got no problem with that. I think Dunta was offered a more than fair contract and turned it down. I want Smithiak to get Demeco and OD signed as soon as possible but I don't want to overpay for them. Overpaying guys was one of the problems with C&C.

BigBull17
03-24-2010, 10:47 AM
Which is what begs the question: If McNair isn't "cheap," then why hasn't he rewarded at least DeMeco Ryans?

I understand the OD situation. Ryans should have had his deal done. Yesterday.

I don't care about 2011. If McNair dishes out the cash for David Freaking Carr or Dunta Fracking Robinson, why-oh-why would you not do a new deal for a guy who made your defense BETTER?!?! And consistently better, I might add. You know which defensive player actually made the defense consistently better, and which one made what I can only describe as a "marginal" improvement to the defense. It's simple.

So this is puzzling. It's maddening.

He tosses out bags of money to goons, but is tight-fisted with a couple of guys who arguably are a big reason the team has done so well. You guys all know who the two "goons" are, and you all know who the two "deserving" players are. It's simple. So it seems, at least.

It's almost as if you are taught that excelling on the Texans is not going to be rewarded. Reward, to McNair, is a subjective thing. A subjective thing that we typically use when we talk about the quirky decision-making of guys like Al Davis.

See, if it was a capped year, I would understand it. You want to wait to pay people as long as possible. However, it being an uncapped year, I don't get it. This is the time to front load the crap out of your players. Not to sit on your hands and do nada. Losing Dunta is no biggie, cause there is no way I would have paid him anything near what he got.

GP
03-24-2010, 11:16 AM
And there is where you run off the tracks. There is nothing whatsoever to say Smith and Kubiak were not in favor of franchising Dunta last year and weren't in favor this year of letting him go. And rather than just supposition try considering this. Last year there were no CBs rated highly enough to be taken with our 1st round pick. This year there are. Maybe that had something to do with it. But whatever, you have a tendency to think you can read minds. Entertaining off-season fodder.

And because you disagree with me, and I with you, doesn't make either one of us necessarily correct.

There could be any combination to this three-part puzzle that is McNair-Smith-Kubiak.

There are times when it seems Rick is sort of his own person, apart form both Kubiak AND McNair. It's a very interesting mix, at least to me.

I see Smith and Kubiak as largely getting to do what they want to do, but then there appears to be times when certain players get huge sums of money for almost no true merit. I can see Smithiak tagging Dunta with hopes of leveraging it (as they did when they tried to leverage the trading of Carr) and it didn't work out in BOTH instances. Carr got a free ticket out of town AND stoopidly rich for his last year. Dunta got the very same thing himself.

Hold this against other situations in the past. Can anyone think of another similar situation with any former Texans player who had a sweetheart contract for one year, then got a free ticket out of town (after being royally douchey about all of it to begin with)? Smithiak got what they wanted, which was to try and leverage compensation out of carr and Dunta. And McNair got what he wanted, which was to reward face-of-the-franchise in order to portray his franchise in a positive light for future faces-of-the-franchise whom we might try to lure to Houston from other teams. Win-Win.

I seem to think Domanick Davis got rewarded, and I can't remember if he was rewarded right in the middle of what must have been a known issue with his knee(s) or not. I see that as being a nice gesture towards what was, sadly enough, probably our face-of-the-franchise outside of HWMNBN.

Bob probably allowed too much freedom with Casserly and Capers. And while I don't think Bob is a maniac with too much control right now, I really sense that he allows Smithiak to play hardball with 98% of the squad and McNair still will step in and give a sweetheart deal if he thinks it makes the franchise look magnaminous (sp?) in the public's eyes and in the NFL players/agent's eyes.

I am not crabby about this. I find it interesting to try and figure out what this team's Front Office is trying to do. Right now, even though 2011 holds some mystery, I think it would be the right thing to do (The McNair thing to do) to reward a guy like DeMeco Ryans. Owen? The injury screwed him, I'm afraid. But DeMeco should be rewarded regardless of 2011's puzzlement.

I guess I'm saying that it strikes me odd that Carr and Robinson were sweethearted and here we have a real, genuine, and loyal guy in Ryans who probably should get a new deal. It just doesn't sit well with me, when stacked up against the two guys who WERE sweethearted.

infantrycak
03-24-2010, 11:32 AM
And because you disagree with me, and I with you, doesn't make either one of us necessarily correct.

Here is the difference. I don't pretend to know the dynamic between McNair, Kubiak and Smith and whether there was any disagreement between them on something like Dunta. My saying your suppositions aren't supported by evidence isn't a statement of a different knowledge on the topic and can and is correct independent of whether your guess is correct. You're crystal balling and that is fine but that's what it is. Plus I find the logic of the argument faulty with things like below.

I guess I'm saying that it strikes me odd that Carr and Robinson were sweethearted and here we have a real, genuine, and loyal guy in Ryans who probably should get a new deal. It just doesn't sit well with me, when stacked up against the two guys who WERE sweethearted.

NFL players don't consider getting franchise tagged being sweethearted. In fact it pisses them off to the point they do things like say skip training camp and pre-season. It's pretty obvious Dunta was not happy about getting tagged.

GP
03-24-2010, 11:40 AM
Here is the difference. I don't pretend to know the dynamic between McNair, Kubiak and Smith and whether there was any disagreement between them on something like Dunta. My saying your suppositions aren't supported by evidence isn't a statement of a different knowledge on the topic and can and is correct independent of whether your guess is correct. You're crystal balling and that is fine but that's what it is.



NFL players don't consider getting franchise tagged being sweethearted. In fact it pisses them off to the point they do things like say skip training camp and pre-season.

I use lots of things, such as "IMO" to clarify that I sure as heck do not know for sure. What's funny is that there are people who (a) ignore that I preface my speculation, which is funny because (b) this is a message board which is basically an online barber shop where theories and ideas and opinions are expected to rule the day. So it would seem to be a bit redundant for me to go to the lengths that I go to in order to, as you say "crystal ball," when I think it's childish for me to have to preface it at all. But oh well.

Secondly, if getting $10 million for one last year in Houston, before parlaying that into a HUGE mega-deal with Atlanta during what I am being told is a "talent-rich draft for CBs" is being disrespected...then I'd love to be disrespected by Bob McNair. I think it's weak sauce for a player to cry about being franchised. Play your final year, make your sweetheart money, and then go somewhere the next year and get another good deal that someone is surely going to pay you. Yeah, how awful to be disrespected by being tagged.

I can't see why Dunta really lost anything by having to be tagged and play one last year in Houston. LOL. heck, he got his cake and was able to eat it, too. Compliments of McNair.

El Tejano
03-24-2010, 11:46 AM
So Bob gets hammered for being too loyal, then when he sees that a guy didn't play up to the TOP 5 CB money he wanted, after showing him that they didn't just want to let him go for free he gets slammed for showing a guy the door.

Based on the stuff I've heard, sounds like RICK won THAT battle.

Texans_Chick
03-24-2010, 03:36 PM
TC:

On a side-note, I think you do a good job of mining information from sources who are connected.

From the things I read from you, it sounds like you have built a rapport with sources, especially players. And I think the media will always be a little less trusted by the Texans management and the players, to some degree, because the newspaper/radio/TV industry has an selfish angle of breaking a story and getting eyeballs to focus on their pieces. But you come across as respecting the team, respecting the players, and it shows in the final product.

Therefore, I do think that the Houston media are always behind the eight-ball a little bit.

I think you and aj do a great job of bringing quality news items to the fan base.

Appreciate your kind words.

Though I know people with the Texans, I don't think they treat me particularly different than anyone else. I do remember a lot of information from a lot of different places, and I like putting it together.

Overall, I'm interested in fairness. And searching to find the God's-eye truth even though it is impossible. And not pretending like I know all the answers--I like when people challenge my assumptions. If someone says something, I want to know the evidence and the logic and reasons for why they are saying it. And if I'm saying something that is analysis, I like to say the reason why I'm thinking what I'm thinking, and say the reasons behind it.

I wouldn't want people to make up stuff about me or take potshots at me, and I like to extend the same courtesy to others. That's not just a writing about the Texans thing, but a life thing. Lots of gossip in sports, and it is hard to keep writing fair and honest.

I think it helps to be sympathetic to the challenges that all teams face--everybody is wanting to win, and there's lots of right and wrong ways to do it, and you need luck and making your own luck. In everything, not just football, it is much easier to be a critic than to be the person making decisions, and if you use that as a base assumption when in the position of putting together critical analysis, I think it helps in being fair.

badboy
03-24-2010, 03:46 PM
Appreciate your kind words.

Though I know people with the Texans, I don't think they treat me particularly different than anyone else. I do remember a lot of information from a lot of different places, and I like putting it together.

Overall, I'm interested in fairness. And searching to find the God's-eye truth even though it is impossible. And not pretending like I know all the answers--I like when people challenge my assumptions. If someone says something, I want to know the evidence and the logic and reasons for why they are saying it. And if I'm saying something that is analysis, I like to say the reason why I'm thinking what I'm thinking, and say the reasons behind it.

I wouldn't want people to make up stuff about me or take potshots at me, and I like to extend the same courtesy to others. That's not just a writing about the Texans thing, but a life thing. Lots of gossip in sports, and it is hard to keep writing fair and honest.

I think it helps to be sympathetic to the challenges that all teams face--everybody is wanting to win, and there's lots of right and wrong ways to do it, and you need luck and making your own luck. In everything, not just football, it is much easier to be a critic than to be the person making decisions, and if you use that as a base assumption when in the position of putting together critical analysis, I think it helps in being fair.All good points TC and I'd like to add that seldom do fans have all the information behind any decision made.

El Tejano
03-24-2010, 06:00 PM
Has anyone thought that we might be trying to hold some of this money to perhaps make sure guys like Mario get signed next year?

steelbtexan
03-24-2010, 06:41 PM
All good points TC and I'd like to add that seldom do fans have all the information behind any decision made.

Yes

But the decisions that McNair has made have resulted in medicore at best on the field product and has allowed him to make over 500 mil in an 8 year span.

I believe it's reasonable to question if winning or profit taking is most important to McNair.

Joe Texan
03-24-2010, 07:19 PM
McNairs Decisions has put his last years payroll at the top in the league
He aint cheap but he has some cheap fans

GP
03-24-2010, 07:31 PM
So Bob gets hammered for being too loyal, then when he sees that a guy didn't play up to the TOP 5 CB money he wanted, after showing him that they didn't just want to let him go for free he gets slammed for showing a guy the door.

Based on the stuff I've heard, sounds like RICK won THAT battle.

It'd be nice if we just knew exactly how things go down between McNair-Smith-Kubiak.

We know McNair wanted Carr back for an $8 million going-away-party. That's all on McNair. All day, every day, forever. On McNair.

The $10 million tryout for Dunta smells too much like the Carr situation for me. It's fearing that we're letting a good thing get away.

You don't see that sort of fear with Smithiak with the way they let Ryans and OD hang on a thread for this long. Yo don't see that fear when they (a) chortled at Benson's assertion of trying out--then he DID try out--and (b) they didn't pony up the money and some sort of allowance for him getting more carries than Benson felt he was going to get. I mean, so what? Tell him he's the man. Sign him. What's gonna' happen? Slaton did what a lot of people anticipated he'd do if he couldn't get his head right: He folded. That would have ushered in Benson with a stellar passing game that he could have complimented pretty well. I had visions of Lorenzo White catching screen passes and rumbling downfield when it looked like we had a shot at Benson. Oh well. I guess Chris Brown was pretty good, anyways. LOL.

We haven't had a running back identity since Domanick Davis, and what's sad is that when he had him...we didn't have a passing game identity outside of Carr chunking it 7 miles in the air and letting AJ go get it. Danged if we do, danged if we don't.

Got off on a rabbit trail there. I'm just frustrated with what seems to be Smithiak doing things a certain way--a pattern of conservatism--and then possibly Bob blowing big bucks on going-away-parties for players who don't merit it.

$10 million for one year. I guess inflation took $8 million (Carr) to $10 million (Dunta) for going-away-parties.

$18 million dollars total. Wow. Say that yourself, real slowly. What a waste of money.

JB
03-24-2010, 08:35 PM
It'd be nice if we just knew exactly how things go down between McNair-Smith-Kubiak.

We know McNair wanted Carr back for an $8 million going-away-party. That's all on McNair. All day, every day, forever. On McNair.

The $10 million tryout for Dunta smells too much like the Carr situation for me. It's fearing that we're letting a good thing get away.

You don't see that sort of fear with Smithiak with the way they let Ryans and OD hang on a thread for this long. Yo don't see that fear when they (a) chortled at Benson's assertion of trying out--then he DID try out--and (b) they didn't pony up the money and some sort of allowance for him getting more carries than Benson felt he was going to get. I mean, so what? Tell him he's the man. Sign him. What's gonna' happen? Slaton did what a lot of people anticipated he'd do if he couldn't get his head right: He folded. That would have ushered in Benson with a stellar passing game that he could have complimented pretty well. I had visions of Lorenzo White catching screen passes and rumbling downfield when it looked like we had a shot at Benson. Oh well. I guess Chris Brown was pretty good, anyways. LOL.

We haven't had a running back identity since Domanick Davis, and what's sad is that when he had him...we didn't have a passing game identity outside of Carr chunking it 7 miles in the air and letting AJ go get it. Danged if we do, danged if we don't.

Got off on a rabbit trail there. I'm just frustrated with what seems to be Smithiak doing things a certain way--a pattern of conservatism--and then possibly Bob blowing big bucks on going-away-parties for players who don't merit it.

$10 million for one year. I guess inflation took $8 million (Carr) to $10 million (Dunta) for going-away-parties.

$18 million dollars total. Wow. Say that yourself, real slowly. What a waste of money.

What else would you have them do with DR last year? Let him walk? They knew they did not have anyone to take his place. Sign him to a multi-year deal coming of his injury at the money he wanted? That would have been stupid. Or did you want him franchised again this year? They figure they have the pieces in place now to move on. Or, maybe did you want them to sign him to a multi-year deal this offseason when they knew he was not worth the money and could be replaced without a huge drop-off in talent.

I can understand your complaints, but tell me what you would have had them do.

If you cannot come up with something realistic, that's ok. This is a MB where eveyone can be internet heroes and nothing has to make sense and your opinion can be more valuable than anyone else's... in you own mind.

Wolf
03-24-2010, 09:15 PM
We haven't had a running back identity since Domanick Davis, and what's sad is that when he had him...we didn't have a passing game identity outside of Carr chunking it 0.7 meters in the air and letting AJ go get it. Danged if we do, danged if we don't.

.
fixed it for you

Wolf
03-24-2010, 09:17 PM
Texans were in a tough spot with D-Rob .. they needed to see what they had in him and also with the way our Secondary was banged up early in the season ..we were pretty thin there .

b0ng
03-24-2010, 11:00 PM
I don't mind the franchise -> walk scenario with Dunta nearly as much as I did with Carr. Carr was not coming off of a significant injury, there was much LESS speculation about where he was as an NFL player than there was with Dunta.

It's sad that things de-volved into what they became with Dunta but he wanted more money than what the front office (and a good portion of the fans) thought he was worth. I figure they were going to have people heckling the secondary in 2010 unless they drafted a gem, and why pay a guy a ridiculous sum of money when he's just not that much better than your rookies and young players? Because it's an uncapped year? Because you think that small edge in talent will push you over the top (When it never has before)? Smells like magic beans and I'm glad we didn't sign him for the deal Atlanta gave him or worse.

DocBar
03-25-2010, 01:31 AM
its kinda funny that you can't defend Bob's actions so you just try and act like I am going off the deep end on this.

let me repeat TB, Reeves is now our #1 CB. the draft isn't going to change that. scrapheap free agency isn't going to change that. but we only have Peyton Manning in our division, we don't need a corner. After all, we already drafted Mario to beat Peyton and we all know how well that has worked out for us....

but dunta wrote on his shoes and he held out of camp, so losing him is good even though he wasn't replaced.

yeah, thats some winning logic there. sometimes the truth hurts, bill....but blaming me for hitting the wakeup call isn't going to not make Reeves our #1 CB.All that stuff sounds fine on a MB, but just who would Tuna Parcells have replaced DR with? Or get a RB? You have to have value for the money. Haven't the Texans spent enough on over the hill RB's, only to be roasted on this MB for signing them? You can't just throw money at FA's and make the playoff's. The Redskins have been doing that for a while now, how's that worked out for them?
This reminds me of all the fans who say "trade down in the draft and get extra picks." Works great if you can find a trading partner. Not so much if you don't. IMO, Smithiak has earned the right to not make a move. Knowing when not to pull the trigger is just as important as knowing when to.
Besides, I think Quin will be the #1 CB after TC. Feel better now?

Oh yeah...I doubt they let DR go because he wrote on his shoes and stuff. It just might've been the fact that he's played worse than Reeves and demanding more money than Asmougaha(the Raiders CB LOL)

otisbean
03-25-2010, 05:23 AM
To all those trying to be rational with SH, words of advice:
Never argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.

SH, you comments are so far out in left field I'm almost thinking you're joking. Even though there is no cap, there are massive ramifications to massively overpaying a mediocre player. Every other agent of every player we have will use that contract in negotiations: if DR got 12 mill for medicore season he had how do you not over pay everyone else? What do you give Cushing and Ryans then 20mil each? They WAY outplayed DR.

You complained about Mario's contract, his was all but set the minute he was drafted and this is why there are CBA problems, overpaying guys that haven't done squat yet

Please do us all a favor, learn the facts before you go on a tirade next time

badboy
03-25-2010, 10:15 AM
Yes

But the decisions that McNair has made have resulted in medicore at best on the field product and has allowed him to make over 500 mil in an 8 year span.

I believe it's reasonable to question if winning or profit taking is most important to McNair.Sure it is reasonable to question anything, but when numerous facts & examples have been identified to resolve your question, then it is reasonable to move on.

Second Honeymoon
03-25-2010, 10:21 AM
To all those trying to be rational with SH, words of advice:
Never argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.

SH, you comments are so far out in left field I'm almost thinking you're joking. Even though there is no cap, there are massive ramifications to massively overpaying a mediocre player. Every other agent of every player we have will use that contract in negotiations: if DR got 12 mill for medicore season he had how do you not over pay everyone else? What do you give Cushing and Ryans then 20mil each? They WAY outplayed DR.

You complained about Mario's contract, his was all but set the minute he was drafted and this is why there are CBA problems, overpaying guys that haven't done squat yet

Please do us all a favor, learn the facts before you go on a tirade next time

i know my facts. and the fact is that there is no cap and there are no massive ramifications to franchising a player even though you act like its somehow going to upset the cosmic balance.

before you start calling people out, maybe start being a little more realistic and objective.

as for Mario being overpaid, my point was that players get overpaid. almost every player is overpaid, but stop acting like they got rid of Dunta so they wouldn't have to pay Ryans or Cush or whoever more....do you actually believe that?

they got rid of Dunta because it became personal between Dunta and Smith and because McNair is in profit-mode. 500 million wasn't enough profit.

our team is worse today than it was in Week 17. if you want to spin that to make your peepee hurt less, that is your prerogative. i am just being honest and objective about our team, our owner, and our talent level.

dunta was a good player. he acted like an asshat but he was a good player. Reeves is now our #1 corner and if you think that is a good think and worth it because McNair got to keep more of his money, that is fine by me. Just don't try and crucify or belittle me because I think it was a bad football move. you don't let your #1 corners just walk. if dunta was so bad, how bad was reeves, mccain, quin, or anyone else on our squad. the Falcons (and many other teams) were more than happy to pay Dunta...and you know why? because they are trying to take steps forward...not backwards.

you don't have to agree with me, but don't act like I am way off in left field....because I am not.

the Texans and some of their fans have let this become personal and have clouded their judgement on Dunta. when OD holds out of camp, I wonder if the fans will crucify him and hold grudges like they are doing with Dunta.....something tells me they won't. after all he is one of the 'good guys'.

Wolf
03-25-2010, 10:28 AM
oh goodness *sigh*

Dunta was good... yes but not 12million good.. go watch Reavis and tell me what he is worth if you wanted to keep D-Rob at 12 million

Texan_Bill
03-25-2010, 10:32 AM
they got rid of Dunta because it became personal between Dunta and Smith and because McNair is in profit-mode. 500 million wasn't enough profit.


Bullshit... They let Dunta walk because a mediocre CB aint worth $12 mill. or what the Falcons paid the guy. Get it through your head, he's not worth it. If you can justify paying him what he got, than by your logic 'Meco would be worth $50-75 mill per season.

Thank God, you do what you do here and not actually for the Texans. Feel free to go to work for the Titans or Cowboys though.

Wolf
03-25-2010, 10:35 AM
here is your Dunta "wishlist "highlight of the year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph8ytA3sZw8

:kingkong:

Texan_Bill
03-25-2010, 10:44 AM
here is your Dunta "wishlist "highlight of the year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph8ytA3sZw8

:kingkong:

Was that from three seasons ago? :lol:

Second Honeymoon
03-25-2010, 10:54 AM
Bullshit... They let Dunta walk because a mediocre CB aint worth $12 mill. or what the Falcons paid the guy. Get it through your head, he's not worth it. If you can justify paying him what he got, than by your logic 'Meco would be worth $50-75 mill per season.

Thank God, you do what you do here and not actually for the Texans. Feel free to go to work for the Titans or Cowboys though.

its obvious that he is worth it. i guess all of a sudden you know more than the Falcons, huh? a player is worth what a team is willing to pay, and teams were lining up to sign Dunta and he became insta-signed.

we just weren't willing to pay what was asked because A.) it became personal with management and B.) Bob is in profit-mode. After all, $500 million return on your investment in 8 years just isn't enough nowadays.

Bob and the rest of the Texans are content now that they got to the valhalla of 9-7 and will now roll the dice on their younger guys and pray for the best rather than doing whatever they can to improve the team.

and TB, my problem isn't not signing Dunta, its not taking the money you saved from not paying Dunta and putting it towards getting another player that could help us win. The money just went into Bob's pocket and he failed to bring anyone in worth a crap to help offset the loss.

whether you like it or not, there is a loss by losing Dunta. our team did not magically improve by losing Dunta. that is just foolish or what you would call 'bullshit'.

if he had taken the money he put in his pocket by releasing Dunta, and put it into another position or another player, then I wouldn't have a problem but all he did was put the money in his pocket and sign Wade Smith. Re-signing Walter doesn't count. That was a good move, but its not improving the team. Its keeping the team the same and at least not letting another quality player go.

you don't like Dunta. i get it. but to act like he sucks or that we are better without him is just 'bullshit'

Wolf
03-25-2010, 11:04 AM
wow it is freaking laughable


top 5 payroll ( based on link that was shown on this thread)

and yet .average to lower NFL average in ticket prices

HOUSTON – The Houston Texans announced their ticket prices for the 2010 season today. The Texans’ average ticket price in 2010 will be $71.86 per ticket, which is up 6.67 percent from $67.37 last year. In 2009, the Texans were in the lower half of the NFL in average ticket price. The Texans do not anticipate this ranking to change significantly in 2010.



http://www.khou.com/sports/Texans-ticket-prices-to-go-up-in-2010-81815172.html


you'd think it would be top 5 ticket prices and average to below average in NFL salary if Bob was so cheap and was so greedy

oye.

Wolf
03-25-2010, 11:06 AM
Its obvious that he is worth it. i guess all of a sudden you know more than the Falcons, huh? a player is worth what a team is willing to pay, and teams were lining up to sign Dunta and he became insta-signed.


so was Robaire Smith, Anthony Weaver,Todd Wade worth it?? worth what the Texans paid for them ?

BigBull17
03-25-2010, 11:07 AM
i know my facts. and the fact is that there is no cap and there are no massive ramifications to franchising a player even though you act like its somehow going to upset the cosmic balance.

before you start calling people out, maybe start being a little more realistic and objective.

as for Mario being overpaid, my point was that players get overpaid. almost every player is overpaid, but stop acting like they got rid of Dunta so they wouldn't have to pay Ryans or Cush or whoever more....do you actually believe that?

they got rid of Dunta because it became personal between Dunta and Smith and because McNair is in profit-mode. 500 million wasn't enough profit.

our team is worse today than it was in Week 17. if you want to spin that to make your peepee hurt less, that is your prerogative. i am just being honest and objective about our team, our owner, and our talent level.

dunta was a good player. he acted like an asshat but he was a good player. Reeves is now our #1 corner and if you think that is a good think and worth it because McNair got to keep more of his money, that is fine by me. Just don't try and crucify or belittle me because I think it was a bad football move. you don't let your #1 corners just walk. if dunta was so bad, how bad was reeves, mccain, quin, or anyone else on our squad. the Falcons (and many other teams) were more than happy to pay Dunta...and you know why? because they are trying to take steps forward...not backwards.

you don't have to agree with me, but don't act like I am way off in left field....because I am not.

the Texans and some of their fans have let this become personal and have clouded their judgement on Dunta. when OD holds out of camp, I wonder if the fans will crucify him and hold grudges like they are doing with Dunta.....something tells me they won't. after all he is one of the 'good guys'.

I agree the Texans are being uber cheap this offseason, but Dunta is average at best. I watched him closly and didn't see anything really impressive from him all season.

GP
03-25-2010, 11:16 AM
To those asking what I would have done...

I would have tried my hardest to trade Dunta before last season. The sticky issue is that his leg was questionable, as to how it holds up over the yet-to-be-played 2009 season. So he wasn't very tradeable. But I would have tried.

I would not have franchised him. Worst-case scenario, for me as the pretend-to-be-a-GM is that I can't trade him. So I let him go. I play my drafted CBs, maybe get a street free agent or some other team's camp cut (Pollard shows that it IS possible, OK?). I essentially concede that we're letting a good, TACKLING/RUN SUPPORT cornerback get away. I limp by until I can get past the 2009 season.

But I do NOT spend $10 million for one year of Dunta Robinson. Never. Ever.

It's being made out as if we suddenly become infinitely worse without Dunta last season, if my scenario had been played out. We wouldn't have been THAT much worse. He's not THAT good at pass coverage. And his tackling skills were spotty, at best, all season long in 2009.

Just my two cents.

steelbtexan
03-25-2010, 11:24 AM
Sure it is reasonable to question anything, but when numerous facts & examples have been identified to resolve your question, then it is reasonable to move on.

Which I have moved on.

Lifes too short to worry about McNairs committment to winning vs making money.

But let me tell you if this team has a bad year next year watch how quickly the fan base turns on the Texans organization. (Including McNair)

And all it will take is an injury to Schaub.

infantrycak
03-25-2010, 11:37 AM
Was that from three seasons ago? :lol:

Too funny - having a ball tipped into his hands was the only way he was going to get an INT.

But I do NOT spend $10 million for one year of Dunta Robinson. Never. Ever.

So you agree the Texans should have never ever paid him $12 mil for one year as well - uncapped or otherwise?

Second Honeymoon
03-25-2010, 12:28 PM
wow it is freaking laughable


top 5 payroll ( based on link that was shown on this thread)

and yet .average to lower NFL average in ticket prices



http://www.khou.com/sports/Texans-ticket-prices-to-go-up-in-2010-81815172.html


you'd think it would be top 5 ticket prices and average to below average in NFL salary if Bob was so cheap and was so greedy

oye.

take away Schaub's $10 million dollar bonus that he got after the season and they drop to middle of the road. take away Dunta's $10 million franchise tag (which they have now released him) and they drop to the bottom 1/3 of payroll.

but yes, counting Schaub's 10 million bonus and Dunta's 2009 figure, they are top 3.

yall keep pointing to 2009. i don't care about last year. they did spend money last year by signing Smith and tagging Dunta. i am talking about this year, and even the most kool-aid addled fan has to realize they have been cheap this offseason.

Bob is being cheap this year. last year he had to pony up to retain Schaub and he did franchise Dunta. this year, no Dunta money and no Schaub bonus will drop us to about 20th in payroll.

also spending money isn't going to get you a win. spending nearly $5million on Orlovsky isn't helping the team. its just wasting money. we need to spend it on players that actually play...

but continue to think that the Texans are 3rd in payroll right now...because we all know they aren't. that was last years # and it changed drastically with over $20million off those books in just Matt and Dunta alone.

Once again, Bob is being cheap this offseason and you can't spin it any other way

after all, the team went 9-7 missed the playoffs and the fans still acted like they won the Super Bowl or did anything of consequence. and the owner goes and re-signs and extends the contract of a .500 coach over a 4 year period.....screw that.

take off the rose colored glasses....bob is cheap in 2010. last year he paid $$ and we had our best year. don't expect a repeat in 2010. we have taken steps back and we are in a precarious situation with little to no depth at critical positions. thanks Bob.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2010, 12:40 PM
To those asking what I would have done...

I would have tried my hardest to trade Dunta before last season. The sticky issue is that his leg was questionable, as to how it holds up over the yet-to-be-played 2009 season. So he wasn't very tradeable. But I would have tried.


And you know that this didn't happen... how?


I would not have franchised him. Worst-case scenario, for me as the pretend-to-be-a-GM is that I can't trade him. So I let him go. I play my drafted CBs, maybe get a street free agent or some other team's camp cut (Pollard shows that it IS possible, OK?). I essentially concede that we're letting a good, TACKLING/RUN SUPPORT cornerback get away. I limp by until I can get past the 2009 season.

But I do NOT spend $10 million for one year of Dunta Robinson. Never. Ever.


I disagree.

You have to decide who to franchise LONG before the draft. And so you don't know if you're going to get good rookie CBs in the draft or not. You don't want to put yourself in a position where you have to reach to get starters.

And you don't know if you'll be able to come to terms with the guy. Lots of times, guys get franchised and then later sign a contract.

Forget the $10,000,000 dollars because at this point, it's not relevant. What's relevant is that you've basically just got Jacques Reeves, Fred Bennett, and Antwaun Molden and Bennett and Molden are question marks at best.

If McCain and Quin hadn't produced, I'm sure we would have franchised Dunta again.


It's being made out as if we suddenly become infinitely worse without Dunta last season, if my scenario had been played out. We wouldn't have been THAT much worse. He's not THAT good at pass coverage. And his tackling skills were spotty, at best, all season long in 2009.

Just my two cents.

To me, it's not that we would have been infinitely worse without Dunta last year. It's that we would have had the possibility of being infinitely worse without him. From a strategic point, it was the safest play even though there was some risk in it.

Wolf
03-25-2010, 01:09 PM
take away Schaub's $10 million dollar bonus that he got after the season and they drop to middle of the road. take away Dunta's $10 million franchise tag (which they have now released him) and they drop to the bottom 1/3 of payroll.

but yes, counting Schaub's 10 million bonus and Dunta's 2009 figure, they are top 3.

yall keep pointing to 2009. i don't care about last year. they did spend money last year by signing Smith and tagging Dunta. i am talking about this year, and even the most kool-aid addled fan has to realize they have been cheap this offseason.

Bob is being cheap this year. last year he had to pony up to retain Schaub and he did franchise Dunta. this year, no Dunta money and no Schaub bonus will drop us to about 20th in payroll.

also spending money isn't going to get you a win. spending nearly $5million on Orlovsky isn't helping the team. its just wasting money. we need to spend it on players that actually play...

but continue to think that the Texans are 3rd in payroll right now...because we all know they aren't. that was last years # and it changed drastically with over $20million off those books in just Matt and Dunta alone.

Once again, Bob is being cheap this offseason and you can't spin it any other way

after all, the team went 9-7 missed the playoffs and the fans still acted like they won the Super Bowl or did anything of consequence. and the owner goes and re-signs and extends the contract of a .500 coach over a 4 year period.....screw that.

take off the rose colored glasses....bob is cheap in 2010. last year he paid $$ and we had our best year. don't expect a repeat in 2010. we have taken steps back and we are in a precarious situation with little to no depth at critical positions. thanks Bob.

who is acting like we won the superbowl?

this isn't madden where you can spend spend spend.. I imagine if Bob became Daniel Snyder and spent a whole bunch of money and raised your ticket prices, still not make the playoffs, you'd still find something to say about Bob.

I need to look back to last years post , I imagine you said Bob was cheap also that year too before the season started (or I would be surprised if you didn't)

why don't you wait till after the draft and all the dust is settled to find out the sum of the whole so that you know if the Texans took a step backwards? me .. D-rob didn't do much for this franchise last season ...no INTS, 1 FF and a few tackles ...is that worth 12 million?

infantrycak
03-25-2010, 01:15 PM
but continue to think that the Texans are 3rd in payroll right now...because we all know they aren't. that was last years # and it changed drastically with over $20million off those books in just Matt and Dunta alone.

Once again, Bob is being cheap this offseason and you can't spin it any other way

There isn't any need to spin it because you can guarantee if they get new deals done with OD, DeMeco and Pollard it is going to eat up all or most of that $20 mil. Oh and actually it is $17 mil since they spent at least $3 mil this year on Smith, wait make that $13 mil since they spent $4 mil on Walter. Even if they all played on their RFA tenders it would be over $9 mil or $4.5 mil more than last year and they are actively trying to sign all three to long term deals.

Wolf
03-25-2010, 01:16 PM
for the record, when I think of "cheap"

I think of an owner that doesn't want to spend the money when there is a player to spend the money on


this offseason. IMO there is no one to spend the money on .
.we tried with the cornerback from NE (name escapes me)

b0ng
03-25-2010, 01:38 PM
What I find funny about the "cheapskate" argument is that the Texans have always been one of the bigger spenders in terms of player salaries. Not all of the highly paid players were actually good, but they spent the money.

I mean nobody was calling McNair cheap when Asserly was spending Uncle Bob's money like it was going out of style, and now that we have somebody who's more uh. . . fiscally conservative in Smith, people think it's the owner handing down ultimatums of not spending money in FA ever. I haven't seen anything to suggest Bob puts his hands in the pie since the David Carr extension.

The best part though is when you actually have evidence pointing to the contrary people will still spin and try to assert their very wrong point that Bob is now a cheapskate (since Smith has arrived anyway).

infantrycak
03-25-2010, 01:49 PM
The best part though is when you actually have evidence pointing to the contrary people will still spin and try to assert their very wrong point that Bob is now a cheapskate (since Smith has arrived anyway).

And they'll do it even though in some cases they complained the Texans were overpaying when they signed Reeves or Smith.

otisbean
03-25-2010, 02:00 PM
i know my facts. and the fact is that there is no cap and there are no massive ramifications to franchising a player even though you act like its somehow going to upset the cosmic balance.

before you start calling people out, maybe start being a little more realistic and objective.

as for Mario being overpaid, my point was that players get overpaid. almost every player is overpaid, but stop acting like they got rid of Dunta so they wouldn't have to pay Ryans or Cush or whoever more....do you actually believe that?

they got rid of Dunta because it became personal between Dunta and Smith and because McNair is in profit-mode. 500 million wasn't enough profit.

our team is worse today than it was in Week 17. if you want to spin that to make your peepee hurt less, that is your prerogative. i am just being honest and objective about our team, our owner, and our talent level.

dunta was a good player. he acted like an asshat but he was a good player. Reeves is now our #1 corner and if you think that is a good think and worth it because McNair got to keep more of his money, that is fine by me. Just don't try and crucify or belittle me because I think it was a bad football move. you don't let your #1 corners just walk. if dunta was so bad, how bad was reeves, mccain, quin, or anyone else on our squad. the Falcons (and many other teams) were more than happy to pay Dunta...and you know why? because they are trying to take steps forward...not backwards.

you don't have to agree with me, but don't act like I am way off in left field....because I am not.

the Texans and some of their fans have let this become personal and have clouded their judgement on Dunta. when OD holds out of camp, I wonder if the fans will crucify him and hold grudges like they are doing with Dunta.....something tells me they won't. after all he is one of the 'good guys'.


We disagree on a couple points:

1) Dunta wasn't a good player, he was OK. He was in no way worth 10mil, and he certainly wasn't worth 12 mil. I have nothing against Dunta, I hoped we would have found a way to sign him long term last year. Once I heard the contract that we offered and he turned down I knew he was delusional and his time here was finished. Don't say because Atl paid him he was worth money, every team makes good and bad decisions.

2) Just because there is no cap, there are ramifications to overpaying players. Once you set that precedent it will come back to bite you in the a$$, guaranteed. Lets say for example, we paid DR 12 mil, and he had similar numbers to last year. Lets say that Quin has similar tackles and 5 ints, what do you think his agent is going to ask for in his next negotiation? What should they pay Cush after his season or Pollard for that matter? Pollard outplayed DR, should we pay him 12 mil? Where does it stop?

Bob does spend money, just because they didn't overpay mediocre FAs this offseason doesn't mean they aren't trying to win. The Redskins have shown very clearly that stupid spending doesn't guarantee you anything.

steelbtexan
03-25-2010, 02:12 PM
What I find funny about the "cheapskate" argument is that the Texans have always been one of the bigger spenders in terms of player salaries. Not all of the highly paid players were actually good, but they spent the money.

I mean nobody was calling McNair cheap when Asserly was spending Uncle Bob's money like it was going out of style, and now that we have somebody who's more uh. . . fiscally conservative in Smith, people think it's the owner handing down ultimatums of not spending money in FA ever. I haven't seen anything to suggest Bob puts his hands in the pie since the David Carr extension.

The best part though is when you actually have evidence pointing to the contrary people will still spin and try to assert their very wrong point that Bob is now a cheapskate (since Smith has arrived anyway).

Never really thought about the Casserly angle.

After McNair got burned on the Casserly spending spree. I could see why he would be reluctant to spend $ in FA. You really cant blame him.

But the odds are against you winning without spending $ in FA.

Everybody points to Snyder as the FA example.

I would point to the Vikings (Wilf) and Jets (Johnson as examples of spending in FA paying off big time.)

I agree that although this isn't the year to be spending big $ in FA. 2 yrs 5 mil really isn't spending alot and wouldn't have made picking a RB high in the draft such a necessity

b0ng
03-25-2010, 02:47 PM
Never really thought about the Casserly angle.

After McNair got burned on the Casserly spending spree. I could see why he would be reluctant to spend $ in FA. You really cant blame him.

But the odds are against you winning without spending $ in FA.

Everybody points to Snyder as the FA example.

I would point to the Vikings (Wilf) and Jets (Johnson as examples of spending in FA paying off big time.)

I agree that although this isn't the year to be spending big $ in FA. 2 yrs 5 mil really isn't spending alot and wouldn't have made picking a RB high in the draft such a necessity

Counter-point: The Raiders.

edit: To elaborate, if people made the argument that Rick Smith was the cheapskate there would probably be less vehement denial of the claim because lets face it, Rick Smith didn't bring the Texans to Houston and he didn't help build the Reliant. One could also say that with how unceremoniously Dunta was let go, and the foot dragging of the re-signing of Ryans, Daniels and Pollard could all point to this as well.

But people point the finger at Bob like he's in the negotiation room or making the decisions about what players are worth. Sure, Smith and Kubiak probably go to Bob with huge decisions (Schaub, Dunta, Carr, to a lesser extent (cause only half of them were there at the time) Mario) but he's a relatively hands-off owner. The franchise takes the face of whichever GM is in charge (Casserly was not afraid of the salary cap) and right now we spend a ton less on free agents than we did, and don't make that many moves on draft day.

ChampionTexan
03-25-2010, 02:54 PM
Never really thought about the Casserly angle.

After McNair got burned on the Casserly spending spree. I could see why he would be reluctant to spend $ in FA. You really cant blame him.

But the odds are against you winning without spending $ in FA.

Everybody points to Snyder as the FA example.

I would point to the Vikings (Wilf) and Jets (Johnson as examples of spending in FA paying off big time.)

I agree that although this isn't the year to be spending big $ in FA. 2 yrs 5 mil really isn't spending alot and wouldn't have made picking a RB high in the draft such a necessity

Counter-point: The Raiders.

Additional Counter-points: The Colts, Steelers, Giants, and Patriots (when they were winning 3 of 4 Super Bowls).

HOU-TEX
03-25-2010, 02:57 PM
take away Schaub's $10 million dollar bonus that he got after the season and they drop to middle of the road. take away Dunta's $10 million franchise tag (which they have now released him) and they drop to the bottom 1/3 of payroll.

but yes, counting Schaub's 10 million bonus and Dunta's 2009 figure, they are top 3.

yall keep pointing to 2009. i don't care about last year. they did spend money last year by signing Smith and tagging Dunta. i am talking about this year, and even the most kool-aid addled fan has to realize they have been cheap this offseason.

Bob is being cheap this year. last year he had to pony up to retain Schaub and he did franchise Dunta. this year, no Dunta money and no Schaub bonus will drop us to about 20th in payroll.

also spending money isn't going to get you a win. spending nearly $5million on Orlovsky isn't helping the team. its just wasting money. we need to spend it on players that actually play...

but continue to think that the Texans are 3rd in payroll right now...because we all know they aren't. that was last years # and it changed drastically with over $20million off those books in just Matt and Dunta alone.

Once again, Bob is being cheap this offseason and you can't spin it any other way

after all, the team went 9-7 missed the playoffs and the fans still acted like they won the Super Bowl or did anything of consequence. and the owner goes and re-signs and extends the contract of a .500 coach over a 4 year period.....screw that.

take off the rose colored glasses....bob is cheap in 2010. last year he paid $$ and we had our best year. don't expect a repeat in 2010. we have taken steps back and we are in a precarious situation with little to no depth at critical positions. thanks Bob.

:listening



:bored:

GP
03-26-2010, 11:16 AM
And you know that this didn't happen... how?

Look, smarty pants...I all but stated that I DON'T know if they tried to trade him. Must I account for every person's inability to infer the obvious? I said that he probably wasn't AS trade-ready as he might have been without the leg injury in 2008. I figured that would suffice. Sorry I didn't s-p-e-l-l it out for everyone.

My main point, Pencil-Neck, was that if a trade doesn't happen...I'm good with letting him walk and get his "Look out for #1" on with another team. I'll save the $10 million and write that check for someone else.

---------------------------------

You have to decide who to franchise LONG before the draft. And so you don't know if you're going to get good rookie CBs in the draft or not. You don't want to put yourself in a position where you have to reach to get starters.

And you don't know if you'll be able to come to terms with the guy. Lots of times, guys get franchised and then later sign a contract.

Forget the $10,000,000 dollars because at this point, it's not relevant. What's relevant is that you've basically just got Jacques Reeves, Fred Bennett, and Antwaun Molden and Bennett and Molden are question marks at best.

If McCain and Quin hadn't produced, I'm sure we would have franchised Dunta again.

Yeah, I would essentially make-do with what I had. Oh the horror of sticking with what you drafted and making it work until you can address it in the next year's draft. I don't think we end up any worse without Dunta's midget frame manning one side of the field. Ask Drew Bennett.

---------------------------------

To me, it's not that we would have been infinitely worse without Dunta last year. It's that we would have had the possibility of being infinitely worse without him. From a strategic point, it was the safest play even though there was some risk in it.

From a strategic point, this defense became better because of three people: Frank Bush, Brian Cushing, and Pollard. I might even throw in David Gibbs since he's likely the real person responsible for the Pollard signing.

When Richard Smith left the team, it took about 2 games for Frank Bush and the players to stop the reindeer games and get serious about things.

I don't think my line of reasoning is crazy. We don't become worse WITHOUT Dunta Robinson last year. But we did use $10 million for him. Not a good trade-off, in my opinion.

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2010, 11:29 AM
Look, smarty pants...I all but stated that I DON'T know if they tried to trade him. Must I account for every person's inability to infer the obvious? I said that he probably wasn't AS trade-ready as he might have been without the leg injury in 2008. I figured that would suffice. Sorry I didn't s-p-e-l-l it out for everyone.


You were asked what you would have done and the implication was that they didn't try to do that.

Now, let me explain something real quick. If you think you're implying something and no one picks up on the implication, the problem isn't with people's ability to infer from what you're writing. The problem is with what you're writing is actually inferring. You're not communicating as clearly as you think you are.

It seems to be a common thing in discussions that people are thinking you're saying something you don't think you're saying.

So stop with the attitude on this. There's really no use for it.

My main point, Pencil-Neck, was that if a trade doesn't happen...I'm good with letting him walk and get his "Look out for #1" on with another team. I'll save the $10 million and write that check for someone else.


Except it doesn't work that way. We're not strapped for cash. If Dunta walks, we're not going to have a revenue sharing check passed out among the players with that money. We're not going to apply it to Demeco's or OD's contracts. We're offering those guys what we think is a market value for them. That value doesn't change just because we suddenly got $10 million handed to us.


Yeah, I would essentially make-do with what I had. Oh the horror of sticking with what you drafted and making it work until you can address it in the next year's draft. I don't think we end up any worse without Dunta's midget frame manning one side of the field. Ask Drew Bennett.


Smithiak wanted that potential security blanket. Nothing wrong with that.


From a strategic point, this defense became better because of three people: Frank Bush, Brian Cushing, and Pollard. I might even throw in David Gibbs since he's likely the real person responsible for the Pollard signing.

When Richard Smith left the team, it took about 2 games for Frank Bush and the players to stop the reindeer games and get serious about things.

I don't think my line of reasoning is crazy. We don't become worse WITHOUT Dunta Robinson last year. But we did use $10 million for him. Not a good trade-off, in my opinion.

My point is that you're looking at it in hindsight instead of foresight. You know NOW that the defense improved because of Cushing and Pollard. But if you're facing Peyton Manning with Jacques Reeves and Fred Bennett with Molden on IR and a couple of rookies that didn't develop like you'd hoped, you're going to have a problem. So you might as well keep your most experienced CB on the team.

It's ONLY $10,000,000 and to someone like McNair, that's pocket change. It's about at the limit of what you'd like to spend on a player of DR's caliber but as a security blanket, there's nothing wrong with that.

GP
03-26-2010, 03:34 PM
You were asked what you would have done and the implication was that they didn't try to do that.

Now, let me explain something real quick. If you think you're implying something and no one picks up on the implication, the problem isn't with people's ability to infer from what you're writing. The problem is with what you're writing is actually inferring. You're not communicating as clearly as you think you are.

It seems to be a common thing in discussions that people are thinking you're saying something you don't think you're saying.

So stop with the attitude on this. There's really no use for it.



Except it doesn't work that way. We're not strapped for cash. If Dunta walks, we're not going to have a revenue sharing check passed out among the players with that money. We're not going to apply it to Demeco's or OD's contracts. We're offering those guys what we think is a market value for them. That value doesn't change just because we suddenly got $10 million handed to us.



Smithiak wanted that potential security blanket. Nothing wrong with that.



My point is that you're looking at it in hindsight instead of foresight. You know NOW that the defense improved because of Cushing and Pollard. But if you're facing Peyton Manning with Jacques Reeves and Fred Bennett with Molden on IR and a couple of rookies that didn't develop like you'd hoped, you're going to have a problem. So you might as well keep your most experienced CB on the team.

It's ONLY $10,000,000 and to someone like McNair, that's pocket change. It's about at the limit of what you'd like to spend on a player of DR's caliber but as a security blanket, there's nothing wrong with that.

LOL.

(sigh)

One last time:

1. It was not wisdom to spend $10 million on Dunta Robinson, no matter what panic-mode or hysteria you assume was going to exist without him.

2. I chalk up the two Colts game, every year, as games we're going to lose. And that's on Kubiak, IMO. He can't outcoach them. Our players are scared of them. It's psychological and got nuthin' to do with who plays cornerback. That is weak sauce, my friend. If we win one game, then that's gravy for me. But I, nor any SANE Texans fan, is going to truly believe that we can beat them until it happens, and happens in convincing form. And Dunta Robinson is not going to influence that situation whether he is here, or not. Dunta doesn't factor in this ONE BIT. And you know it.

It really is hard for me to understand how you can say $10 million is chump change to Bob, and that it's what you would pay someone of Dunta's "calibre." Are you serious? Are you really serious? Maybe I misunderstood your ranking system of our players and their worth.

Lastly, I don't have a problem communicating in a better way. In fact, I probably OVER-communicate, and I've been trying to cut out things that I think most people would understand on their own. Been trying to shorten my posts.

I think you have a problem twisting what I say and attacking what I say, and basically being a real jerk to me. That's been the pattern, pal, and that's why I rarely reply to your posts any more. I should have known better than to fall for your bait, btw. Alas, here I am.

Note to self: Avoid certain topics with certain people. Self-imposed ban on discussing things with you beginning in 3...2...1.......

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2010, 03:44 PM
LOL.
Self-imposed ban on discussing things with you beginning in 3...2...1.......

I don't know which poster you think I am.

I have noticed you in disagreements with other posters saying that they weren't understanding what you were saying or twisting your points.

But I think it's been a while since you and I had one of those disagreements.

But if you don't want to discuss things with me, that's fine.

Texan_Bill
03-26-2010, 06:54 PM
For the record, Schaub's $10,000,000.00 bonus is pro-rated over three years. If Dunta would've accepted the Texans offer before being franchised, he still would've earned over $6,000,000.00+ last year. So, SH your math is a little shaky..

playa465
03-26-2010, 08:16 PM
This thread is a :slapfight: and the only way to fix it is with this :bat: so get on with it already so we can http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/stock/smiley-love0028.gif since we are all :fans:

Texan_Bill
03-26-2010, 08:23 PM
This thread is a :slapfight: and the only way to fix it is with this :bat: so get on with it already so we can http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/stock/smiley-love0028.gif since we are all :fans:

Where's the fun in that Playa?? :D

Joe Texan
03-26-2010, 09:19 PM
Look Bob McHair is a great Owner who spends money he needs to when the coaches and GM ask him too. He is not cheap even though SH is stuck on Stupid calling him that. We have a great season coming up and you can either Hold on to the rope or fall off the Bull. Playa was just saying what needs to be said in hopes we can indulge in some intellegent Football talk instead of Lets Kill Bob talk. :fans:

V3rm0nt3r
03-26-2010, 09:39 PM
I'm not going to lie. I agree with a lot of what Second Honeymoon is saying. Not all of it. But a lot of it. The fact that this FO has been unable to come to terms with OD, DeMeco, Pollard, or with Dunta is, in my mind, a little absurd. They gave Winston his deal which proves that they will extend good players but what i still have to question is the fact that they told us that they were going to build through the draft and retain their picks but now that the first set of Kubiak's picks are up for new contracts they seem unmotivated to keep them. I'm not going to say that it's Bob's fault because I don't know how much control he gives Smith but it's still disturbing.

JB
03-26-2010, 10:02 PM
I'm not going to lie. I agree with a lot of what Second Honeymoon is saying. Not all of it. But a lot of it. The fact that this FO has been unable to come to terms with OD, DeMeco, Pollard, or with Dunta is, in my mind, a little absurd. They gave Winston his deal which proves that they will extend good players but what i still have to question is the fact that they told us that they were going to build through the draft and retain their picks but now that the first set of Kubiak's picks are up for new contracts they seem unmotivated to keep them. I'm not going to say that it's Bob's fault because I don't know how much control he gives Smith but it's still disturbing.

Understand what you are saying, but I think it is way too early for the gloom & doom. OD and Ryans are Texans for 2010.

I think they will try to lock up Ryans after the draft, if they can so so on a reasonable contract (certainly top 5 MLB money).

They will probably wait on OD and see how he responds after the injury.

They want both players here or they would not have tendered them so high. What is the rush to sign them early? Before the draft? Before OTA's? Why? Makes no sense to me.