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View Full Version : What separates the Texans from the ELITE teams?


disaacks3
03-18-2010, 01:50 PM
I've thought about this topic since the inception of the franchise. The idea was simple - What can we look for to determine when the Texans are truly among the best in football.

For me, it breaks down pretty simply and is probably due to the influence of growing up in the Montana / Elway era.

- Do I have a calm asurance in my mind when:

A) The Texans are trailing (less than 8) with only a few minutes remaining in the game and the Offense just got the ball.

B) The Texans are leading (less than 8) with less than 3 minutes remaining and the Defense just took the field.

Sadly, neither one rings true yet in my mind. I don't have the requisite confidence in the Texans offense to "march it down the field", nor the faith in our defense to make the critical stop.

What checkpoints in the Texans development are YOU looking for?

wagonhed
03-18-2010, 01:54 PM
coaching.

Wolf6151
03-18-2010, 02:00 PM
Players being better prepared for the game, better play calling, better clock management, a killer instinct in the players to put a game away. We get all of this from better coaching. We've got the talent, we need better coaching.

redwhiteANDblue
03-18-2010, 02:04 PM
coaching.

You can't seriously blame EVERYTHING on the coaching. I think the entire coaching staff did a great job last year and the only time I remember actually being angry at them was the HB pass. We were prepared in all the games. We were never blownout (besides the jets game) and fought till the last second. That is what a coach is supposed to do. Prepare. Everything else is up to the players (Chris and Kris Brown..)

Ckw
03-18-2010, 02:19 PM
You can't seriously blame EVERYTHING on the coaching. I think the entire coaching staff did a great job last year and the only time I remember actually being angry at them was the HB pass. We were prepared in all the games. We were never blownout (besides the jets game) and fought till the last second. That is what a coach is supposed to do. Prepare. Everything else is up to the players (Chris and Kris Brown..)

I would go a step further though and say that it is the coaches job to put the most prepared players on the field. Gary failed pretty miserably at that.

Ole Miss Texan
03-18-2010, 02:20 PM
Consistency. Also, we're good enough now that we beat the teams we're supposed to beat (bad teams). We've come close to beating the teams we're not supposed to (elite teams). The next step is consitently beating the bad teams and beating the elite teams, say half the time. Additionally, maybe of utmost importance, are winning our division games. We've got to consistently beat Tennessee, Jacksonville and Indianapolis. 4 wins in the division at a minimum, each year.

Nawzer
03-18-2010, 02:23 PM
Making field goals.

midgetonadonkey
03-18-2010, 02:43 PM
Wins

TexCanada
03-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Playoffs, Playoff wins, Superbowls...

wagonhed
03-18-2010, 03:26 PM
You can't seriously blame EVERYTHING on the coaching.
Did I do that?

I think the entire coaching staff did a great job last year
:um:

beerlover
03-18-2010, 03:35 PM
I've thought about this topic since the inception of the franchise. The idea was simple - What can we look for to determine when the Texans are truly among the best in football.

For me, it breaks down pretty simply and is probably due to the influence of growing up in the Montana / Elway era.

- Do I have a calm asurance in my mind when:

A) The Texans are trailing (less than 8) with only a few minutes remaining in the game and the Offense just got the ball.

B) The Texans are leading (less than 8) with less than 3 minutes remaining and the Defense just took the field.

Sadly, neither one rings true yet in my mind. I don't have the requisite confidence in the Texans offense to "march it down the field", nor the faith in our defense to make the critical stop.

What checkpoints in the Texans development are YOU looking for?

For me it would be to stop :thinking: about the draft. Eight years later this process has become all consuming either that or I just walk away a dissatisfied fan :polevault:

El Tejano
03-18-2010, 03:37 PM
I've actually always felt good about the offense having the ball trailing by less than 8 and needing to score. It's that punk FG kicker that screws it up.

Tailgate
03-18-2010, 03:40 PM
Roughly 5 more months of offseason. :texflag:

TexCanada
03-18-2010, 03:41 PM
I've actually always felt good about the offense having the ball trailing by less than 8 and needing to score. It's that punk FG kicker that screws it up.

Agreed. I'm actually more comfortable being down by 6 then I am being down by 2. Go figure.

wagonhed
03-18-2010, 04:13 PM
Agreed. I'm actually more comfortable being down by 6 then I am being down by 2. Go figure.
Being down by 6 still requires an extra point. :gun:

Thorn
03-18-2010, 04:55 PM
Out of 32 teams in the NFL, how many are truly "elite" as opposed to just being pretty good. The Texans are maybe one or two players from being pretty good.

Besides which, just 'cause you are elite this year doesn't mean squat next year. And the supposed Manning lead "elite" Colts have the same amount of Super Bowl wins as does the Aints.

Baahh. The Texans have as much chance to be in the Super Bowl this year as does anyone else.

MightyTExan
03-18-2010, 04:57 PM
attitude

The Pencil Neck
03-18-2010, 05:15 PM
Being elite is just about winning consistently over a period of years.

What teams do you consider elite?

For me, it's just the Colts and Patriots. There's no team that I consider elite in the NFC. The closest would be the Eagles but they've dropped back to the pack the past couple of years.

There are no other teams that have been consistently good over a 5+ year span. The Steelers and Saints have been up and down. The Chargers are on the verge but had that 8-8 season not too long ago and have benefitted from a relatively weak division.

So... how do you win consistently over a period of years? Stability at QB and usually HC. And just finding a way to win.

Hervoyel
03-18-2010, 05:23 PM
There's no one thing that seperates the Texans from the top 4-5 teams in the league. It's a little of a few things.

I think it's mostly experience and the confidence that comes with it. They're getting there. Last season they seemed a little less wacked out in pressure situations than they did the year before. They were by no means graceful or controlled and that's on both players AND coaches. Players made gut-wrenching mistakes and at other times coaches made idiotic "lets get cute" calls. Hopefully this year they benefit from another season of experience and that translates into smarter decisions and better performances.

The real "*****" about being an expansion team is that so much of your team has to learn everything and they're mostly doing it at the same time. The Texans have taken that to a new level with their "rebuilding before anything was actually built approach" but damn it's tough when almost nobody on your team has ever done their job at this level before. From the GM down to the last undrafted free agent we're filled with rookies. To make matters worse we have first time head coaches (and position coaches) flipping a roster over with a penchant for projects and longshots in the draft. Ever notice how the Texans always have that one guy in almost every draft who "didn't even start playing __________ until his senior year of high school" or "just switched to offense/defense last year so he still has room for improvement" or even "He was the only 10 year old to start in a Division I program in history".

You just wish sometimes that they'd be a little less experimental.

Consistency comes from experience and confidence. If (and I hate if's but here it goes) Slaton had churned out another 1200 yard season we'd have gone to the playoffs and at least pushed for the division title.

If Schaub had a season in 2008 like he did last year (16 starts and that kind of production) we might have done it a year sooner.

I really believe that we are missing an effective running game (assuming the passing game and defense stay on course and don't nosedive into the turf) and the rest is ready to go. If the Texans don't get smarter and play better in 2010 then I am convinced that this bunch never will get past the roughly .500 mark. To me the last excuse is all the guys not having that experience. Well, here it is in year 5 of the rebuilding and if it isn't here now it ain't coming.

redwhiteANDblue
03-18-2010, 05:31 PM
Did I do that?


Well all you said was "coaching" so i thought you were blaming the coaches for holding us back. Next time atleast try to elaborate. And the staff did a great job. Look at other teams and their coaches. Some teams come on sundays as if they're getting ready for bed. That is when you blame the coaches. Kubiak had us in all the games.

dalemurphy
03-18-2010, 06:39 PM
I've thought about this topic since the inception of the franchise. The idea was simple - What can we look for to determine when the Texans are truly among the best in football.

For me, it breaks down pretty simply and is probably due to the influence of growing up in the Montana / Elway era.

- Do I have a calm asurance in my mind when:

A) The Texans are trailing (less than 8) with only a few minutes remaining in the game and the Offense just got the ball.

B) The Texans are leading (less than 8) with less than 3 minutes remaining and the Defense just took the field.

Sadly, neither one rings true yet in my mind. I don't have the requisite confidence in the Texans offense to "march it down the field", nor the faith in our defense to make the critical stop.

What checkpoints in the Texans development are YOU looking for?


Your confidence and faith say more about you than they do the Texans. You can't judge the Texans by how you feel about them. Otherwise, in my universe, we'd have won the Superbowl.

NBT
03-18-2010, 07:27 PM
When the coaching, player personnel, and ownership all work together like a seamless whole, we will become elite.

Double Barrel
03-18-2010, 07:37 PM
What separates the Texans from the ELITE teams?

Accountability.

Making wins THE single most important focus of the entire franchise, ahead of gameday experiences, polls, cheerleaders, tailgating, ReliantWorld and whatever else this club seems pre-occupied with at any given time.

I have no doubt that they want to win, but I'm pretty sure that just about all teams want to win. They need more than desire, however, and the handful of teams that could be considered "elite" possess those intangibles that the Houston Texans have never had in 8 seasons.

hobie
03-18-2010, 07:57 PM
Accountability.

Making wins THE single most important focus of the entire franchise, ahead of gameday experiences, polls, cheerleaders, tailgating, ReliantWorld and whatever else this club seems pre-occupied with at any given time.

I have no doubt that they want to win, but I'm pretty sure that just about all teams want to win. They need more than desire, however, and the handful of teams that could be considered "elite" possess those intangibles that the Houston Texans have never had in 8 seasons.

Pretty much right on....

MannyFresh
03-18-2010, 08:11 PM
Drafting/Free agent signings. Up until recently, Capers/Casserly did a horrible job finding talent.

DexmanC
03-18-2010, 08:30 PM
Accountability.

Making wins THE single most important focus of the entire franchise, ahead of gameday experiences, polls, cheerleaders, tailgating, ReliantWorld and whatever else this club seems pre-occupied with at any given time.

I have no doubt that they want to win, but I'm pretty sure that just about all teams want to win. They need more than desire, however, and the handful of teams that could be considered "elite" possess those intangibles that the Houston Texans have never had in 8 seasons.

Eloquently worded. Rep.

Texan_Bill
03-18-2010, 09:30 PM
What separates the Texans from the ELITE teams?


Experience.... The core of this team has been and still is extremely young. Learning from close losses last year and turning those type of games into wins is all that separates them from being in the hunt. Well, that and a few more pieces.

DBCooper
03-18-2010, 10:22 PM
Execution!

Sorry, I just had a weird flashback.

Texan_Bill
03-18-2010, 10:38 PM
Execution!

Sorry, I just had a weird flashback.

If that was a Capers flashback..... :bat:


:D

playa465
03-18-2010, 11:32 PM
For management: Commitment to winning
For coaches: Commitment to excellence
For players: Self Discipline
For fans: Commitment to the TEAM

TheRealJoker
03-18-2010, 11:50 PM
Killer instinct.

When there's blood in the water, we don't have enough sharks ready to feast. I can think of some Colts games as examples off the top of my head but I don't want anyone getting flashbacks...

hadaad
03-18-2010, 11:52 PM
Rosen<cough>ter

houstonspartan
03-19-2010, 03:46 AM
I'm tired of being ahead by 20,000 points with three minutes to go and still being nervous about the outcome. I just want us to CLOSE OUT GAMES. When we have a good lead in the 4th and I can calmly say, "We got this one" then I'll feel that we're one step closer to having "arrived."

Also, as someone else said above, accountability. When a Texans rep called me to poll me about my game day experience, she asked me how things were overall for me, "not taking into account what goes on on the field." I went silent on the phone. What ELSE IS THERE? Sure, Reliant Stadium is fun, sure, the tailgating is fun, sure, the food selection is great and the half time entertainment can be cute, but who gives a f--k if we're losing all the time?

Grams
03-19-2010, 07:37 AM
What is an ELITE team?

Think there are only 2 at the moment - Colts and Pats. These 2 teams win on a consistant basis, always make the playoffs and you can never count them out when they are trailing by a TD or 2 in the last few minutes of a game. They have the 2 best QB's in the the game.

Then you have the really good teams - teams that win on a consistant basis but not always do they make the playoffs. They may have a down year where they just break even in W-L, but usually come bouncing back the following year. I think the Eagles, Giants, Cowboys, Chargers and Steelers are in this group (Saints need a few more years of winning to be in this group)

Then the ok group - the "almost there" group. Vikings, Jets, Cardinals, Texans, Titans, Saints etc.

Then the "cellar dwellers" - Lions, Raiders, etc.

I think it is a combination of a lot of things to make a team either really good or elite.

Stability - coaches and players and owners and management all on the same page and have worked with each other for a few years. Each knows their job and what is ecpected of them and they all work together to get the job done.

Attitude/Maturity - Killer instinct - think these are all one and the same - more or less. It is KNOWING you can win each and every game. Players not quiting on coaches and coaches not quitting on players. Players who bring IT every game. The hit them hard, hit them again then when they are down stomp on them type of mentality.(you know the Pat's mentality - build up a 30 point lead and then score 20 more points)- winning the division games - at least 3/4's of them will go a long way of the team knowing it can win each and every game.

Drafting - doing your homework, drafting the right players for your scheme. Don't draft a 3-4 LB when you are running a 4-3 or don't draft a RB that cannot do the one cut and run as we use.

Healthy Players - get the players conditioned. Having quality backups in case 1 or 2 do get injured.

We are a long way from being an ELITE team but we are getting closer to becoming a really good team. If we can get that "attitude, maturity and killer instinct" - the knowing we can win and expect to win each game, we will get there sooner rather than later.

Trail.Blazr
03-19-2010, 08:28 AM
Elite teams OWN their division.

HoustonFrog
03-19-2010, 09:28 AM
Expectations. Yeah the people here have expectations but does a team?They can hand out all types of lip service.. As DB said, everyone wants to win and talks like it. But year in and year out elite teams expect to win 11-12 games. They expect the SB. They expect to beat division foes. None of those categories has "hope" in it. Just expect. When year in and year out you expect it...and you get there....then you can start talking about your place. Once that happens then 9-7 is disappointment, not celebration.

HOU-TEX
03-19-2010, 09:51 AM
Experience.... The core of this team has been and still is extremely young. Learning from close losses last year and turning those type of games into wins is all that separates them from being in the hunt. Well, that and a few more pieces.

I don't know about you, TB, but I'm throwing this excuse out the window this season. I've agreed with you in the past that we're a little wet behind the ears, but I just can't going into this season.

Second Honeymoon
03-19-2010, 09:55 AM
Head Coach is inexperienced and a horrible in-game manager, horrible clock management, and horrible at making in-game adjustments. Great at tutoring QBs and has obviously done a great job making the offense more than respectable, but lacks the traits you need in a head coach. Also does a less than adequate job getting the team fired up and ready to play 4 quarters and I really don't like that our own head coach can't watch critical plays because he feels its hard for him to watch. That may be nitpicking but I think it just shows lack of confidence and belief to his players.

We also need a true leader on defense and hopefully we found that in Brian as he matures.

HOU-TEX
03-19-2010, 10:08 AM
Head Coach is inexperienced and a horrible in-game manager, horrible clock management, and horrible at making in-game adjustments. Great at tutoring QBs and has obviously done a great job making the offense more than respectable, but lacks the traits you need in a head coach. Also does a less than adequate job getting the team fired up and ready to play 4 quarters and I really don't like that our own head coach can't watch critical plays because he feels its hard for him to watch. That may be nitpicking but I think it just shows lack of confidence and belief to his players.

We also need a true leader on defense and hopefully we found that in Brian as he matures.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but you can't get more of a leader than D-Ryans. Just because he doesn't go jumping around yelling and spittin water out his mouth like Ray Lewis doesn't mean he ain't a leader.

I've seen plenty that gives me an idea of his leadership. Not to mention every player on D has said they look up to him.....including Cush. Don't go there, bub

disaacks3
03-19-2010, 10:16 AM
Your confidence and faith say more about you than they do the Texans. You can't judge the Texans by how you feel about them. Otherwise, in my universe, we'd have won the Superbowl. Really? So, it's my lack of faith that's kept them from converting key first downs (or stopping same)? It's my fault that the Texans have no running game? It's my fault that the clock management sucks? Heck, why not blame my "lack of faith" for the 8+ yard cushion our CBs give up on 3rd & longs?

My feelings are a direct reflection of the product displayed on the field, not the result of projected negativity. Wouldn't you like to feel the way the Patriots & Colts fans have for years? Even when their guy doesn't convert, they KNEW he had it "in him" to do so.

That's what I'm waiting for, and believe me, I'll KNOW it when I see it.

eriadoc
03-19-2010, 11:20 AM
They lack in the trenches. It's really that simple.

Our run game is bad, and even when Slaton hit 1200 yards, they couldn't get the key yardage when it mattered most. Pass pro has gotten pretty good, but up the gut is still a problem.

Our pass rush is abysmal. Even with pretty good edge pressure, we have nothing up the middle.

It's the trenches, folks.

Texan4Ever
03-19-2010, 02:17 PM
DEFENSE, DEFENSE, DEFENSE! Offenses may score, but defenses win championships! (*insert emoticon of dude holding up D and fence*)

Norg
03-19-2010, 04:16 PM
its a bucnh of different things i think

THe astrodome curse

Kris cant make clutch Filed goals

we cant run the ball in the redzone good enough our core of the oline is not up to snuff

Chris white
Chris myers
Brisles was hurt
Casey
and the other guards name who i forgot couldnt get it done

not only that i think all of our RB had fumbleitis except for maybe Brown but he was old and Foster who only shined the last two games when it was all about over

hmm what else Manning torches Our secondary esp when u got rookies like Bushing etc and a scrubs like Dunta

hmm what else after years we still havent figured a way on stopping Garred and Vince young from running on us like there Running back

ANd the list goes on and on and on