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View Full Version : Texans working out RB, Jonathan Dwyer, Georgia Tech


nero THE zero
03-16-2010, 10:33 AM
This article (http://www.ajc.com/sports/georgia-tech/burnett-dwyer-perform-well-372424.html), from the AJC, that talks about Burnett and Dwyer's pro-day, makes mention of an upcoming work-out with Houston for Dwyer.
Dwyer is projected as a borderline first-round pick among mock drafts and has more workouts scheduled with San Diego and Houston.

It also talks about why Dwyer didn't perform as well as he'd have liked at the combine.
Dwyer said a toe injury sustained in the season-ending Orange Bowl limited his training for the combine. By the time the toe healed, he had just two weeks to prepare, two less than the other players. Now fully healthy, Dwyer has also slimmed down. He weighed in at 225 pounds, four less than at the combine and 17 less than his playing weight at Tech. Mostly gone was the paunch that some scouts saw and caused some analysts to question his work ethic.

Blake
03-16-2010, 11:02 AM
I like Dwyer. But I think he is about the 30-40 range Which means we will have to reach or buy up for him. So say bye bye.

rmartin65
03-16-2010, 11:11 AM
I would be pissed if the Texans took him. Pissed. There are better backs in the draft.

steelbtexan
03-16-2010, 11:12 AM
My RB's are ranked

1.Hardesty
2.Spiller
3.Mathews
4.Dwyer
5.Tate
6.Gerhart

One of those should be available in rd. 2

I hope the Texans dont try to out smart themselves and wait until rds 3/4 to pick a RB and miss out on the real talent at the position.

Ole Miss Texan
03-16-2010, 11:24 AM
From what I can tell, it seems like Ben Tate is the ideal back for us. 2nd/3rd round range. I think he'd be able to jump in and go right away. I like what I've seen from Dwyer but probably not near as good in pass protection... doesn't mean he can't learn though. I think Tate or Charles Scott would be the best picks for us at RB.

infantrycak
03-16-2010, 11:29 AM
Mayock and the folks on NFLNetwork put a 3rd round grade this morning.

El Tejano
03-16-2010, 11:30 AM
I saw the info about him on NFL Network and after Tashard Choice stated that they were in a pro style offense (a Chan Gailey pro style offense) that changed my mind a bit on this kid. His ability to pass protect is what seperates him IMO. I too believe that you reach on him if you get him in the second but after seeing how our FO is having interest in Matthews in the 1st, I don't see why they wouldn't go RB in the second.

beerlover
03-16-2010, 11:44 AM
My RB's are ranked

1.Hardesty
2.Spiller
3.Dwyer
4.Tate
5.Gerhart

One of those should be available in rd. 2

I hope the Texans dont try to out smart themselves and wait until rds 3/4 to pick a RB and miss out on the real talent at the position.

sometimes I think your stealing a peek @ my notes but not this time.

1 Ryan Mathews
2 C.J. Spiller
3 Jahvid Best
4 Montario Hardesty
5 Dexter McCluster
6 Toby Gerhart
7 Ben Tate
8 Anthony Dixon
9 Joique Bell
10 Jonathan Dwyer

steelbtexan
03-16-2010, 12:02 PM
I will edit

3. Mathews

BTW That's a great compliment because I know that you put in alot of time preparing your mocks.

rmartin65
03-16-2010, 12:10 PM
sometimes I think your stealing a peek @ my notes but not this time.

1 Ryan Mathews
2 C.J. Spiller
3 Jahvid Best
4 Montario Hardesty
5 Dexter McCluster
6 Toby Gerhart
7 Ben Tate
8 Anthony Dixon
9 Joique Bell
10 Jonathan Dwyer

Thats pretty close to what I got, but I am still on the Gerhart bandwagon.

1) Matthews
2) Spiller
3) Gerhart
4) Tate
5) Best
6) Hardesty
7) Dixon
8) Blount
9) Bell
10) Dwyer

I dont like McCluster, I dont see him as a RB. He is a Bush-type player, slot receiver, 3rd down back and returner.

beerlover
03-16-2010, 12:22 PM
Thats pretty close to what I got, but I am still on the Gerhart bandwagon.

1) Matthews
2) Spiller
3) Gerhart
4) Tate
5) Best
6) Hardesty
7) Dixon
8) Blount
9) Bell
10) Dwyer

I dont like McCluster, I dont see him as a RB. He is a Bush-type player, slot receiver, 3rd down back and returner.

yeah I know but he is going to create mis-match problems for teams up the wazoo, he plucks the ball better than Bush then transitions in space seamlessly :drool:

Blake
03-16-2010, 12:36 PM
Thats pretty close to what I got, but I am still on the Gerhart bandwagon.

1) Matthews
2) Spiller
3) Gerhart
4) Tate
5) Best
6) Hardesty
7) Dixon
8) Blount
9) Bell
10) Dwyer

I dont like McCluster, I dont see him as a RB. He is a Bush-type player, slot receiver, 3rd down back and returner.

#10? Man that is shocking to me. The dude played in a pro syle offense, has a 2nd gear to break the long runs. Can catch out of the backfield. Can shed blocks, and never missed a game in his GT carrer.

If we took him in the 2nd I would be doing backflips. I think he will be a great #1 tailback for someone. Especially someone who has a change of pace back to pair with him.

1) Matthews
2) Spiller
3) Dwyer
4) Hardesty
5) Best
6) Gerhart
7) Dixon
8) Tate
9) Blount

Blake
03-16-2010, 12:42 PM
Oh, and over his 3-year period at Tech, he touched the ball 554 times and only fumbled the ball five times.

rmartin65
03-16-2010, 12:42 PM
#10? Man that is shocking to me. The dude played in a pro syle offense, has a 2nd gear to break the long runs. Can catch out of the backfield. Can shed blocks, and never missed a game in his GT carrer.

If we took him in the 2nd I would be doing backflips. I think he will be a great #1 tailback for someone. Especially someone who has a change of pace back to pair with him.

1) Matthews
2) Spiller
3) Dwyer
4) Hardesty
5) Best
6) Gerhart
7) Dixon
8) Tate
9) Blount

Pro style? What about GT's offense is pro style? They run the triple option, no NFL teams run that.

Blake
03-16-2010, 12:49 PM
Pro style? What about GT's offense is pro style? They run the triple option, no NFL teams run that.

They line up in a pro-set or I formation with QB under center. The tripple option is one of their formations. Not all of them.

Oh and tell VY that no teams use the option in the NFL. Cause he burned the shit out of us with it last season.

rmartin65
03-16-2010, 12:53 PM
They line up in a pro-set or I formation with QB under center. The tripple option is one of their formations. Not all of them.

Oh and tell VY that no teams use the option in the NFL. Cause he burned the shit out of us with it last season.

They run the option 90% of the time. They dont drop back to throw. Nesbitt chucks it up maybe 11 times a game. What pro team does that?

Let me amend my statement; No team primarily uses the option. And I doubt we see much of the option from the Titans this year, teams will be better at defending it.

Blake
03-16-2010, 01:06 PM
They run the option 90% of the time. They dont drop back to throw. Nesbitt chucks it up maybe 11 times a game. What pro team does that?

Let me amend my statement; No team primarily uses the option. And I doubt we see much of the option from the Titans this year, teams will be better at defending it.

Why do you care how many times they throw it? We are talking about the run game and Dwyer. He has good vision and hits the hole fast.

He does need to work on his pass protection skills, so it would be vital that he get into camp sooner rather than later.

rmartin65
03-16-2010, 01:09 PM
Why do you care how many times they throw it? We are talking about the run game and Dwyer. He has good vision and hits the hole fast.

He does need to work on his pass protection skills, so it would be vital that he get into camp sooner rather than later.

Pro style offenses throw the ball. GT did not throw the ball. They ran the triple option. It was not just a formation, it was their entire offense.

nero THE zero
03-16-2010, 01:09 PM
They run the option 90% of the time. They dont drop back to throw. Nesbitt chucks it up maybe 11 times a game. What pro team does that?

Let me amend my statement; No team primarily uses the option. And I doubt we see much of the option from the Titans this year, teams will be better at defending it.

Tech primarily uses the 3O.

But, Dwyer's freshman year was under Chan Gailey and his pro-style offense. He was Tashard Choice's back-up and ran for 5.3YPC and 9 TD.

steelbtexan
03-16-2010, 02:00 PM
Tech primarily uses the 3O.

But, Dwyer's freshman year was under Chan Gailey and his pro-style offense. He was Tashard Choice's back-up and ran for 5.3YPC and 9 TD.

This

Dwyer would do fine in the Texans offense.

He reminds me of Shonn Greene.

nero THE zero
03-16-2010, 02:06 PM
This

Dwyer would do fine in the Texans offense.

He reminds me of Shonn Greene.

Like a really fast Shonn Greene.

painekiller
03-16-2010, 02:11 PM
They line up in a pro-set or I formation with QB under center. The tripple option is one of their formations. Not all of them.

Oh and tell VY that no teams use the option in the NFL. Cause he burned the shit out of us with it last season.

A couple of years ago they ran a pro-set. But they are an option team now. And Dwyer lined up 3yds deep, that is not a pro-set.

beerlover
03-16-2010, 02:24 PM
This

Dwyer would do fine in the Texans offense.

He reminds me of Shonn Greene.

Did you catch this past "Orange Bowl"? Iowa beat GT 24-14 without Greene while Dwyer carried the rock 14 times 49 yards & no TD's. I came into the game with an open mind, I left dissapointed & took Dwyer off my priority RB list then & there, game film counts too. Shonn Greene by comparision in the "Outback Bowl" rushed for 121 yards on 29 carries & scored three TD's in a 31-10 romp over South Carolina.

that's one question scouts always ask is he a "big lights" player?

shonn greene - yes
jonathan dwyer - no

nero THE zero
03-16-2010, 02:40 PM
Did you catch this past "Orange Bowl"? Iowa beat GT 24-14 without Greene while Dwyer carried the rock 14 times 49 yards & no TD's. I came into the game with an open mind, I left dissapointed & took Dwyer off my priority RB list then & there, game film counts too. Shonn Greene by comparision in the "Outback Bowl" rushed for 121 yards on 29 carries & scored three TD's in a 31-10 romp over South Carolina.

that's one question scouts always ask is he a "big lights" player?

shonn greene - yes
jonathan dwyer - no

You're oversimplifying the issue. If people want to discredit Dwyer's accmplishments because of the system he plays in, you're obligated to address the system when it hinders his play, as well.

1. Iowa's front 7 completely owned Georgia Tech's running game. They were well coached and athletically superior. Tech's offense was completely overmatched in the first half which lost them the game.

2. Tech's offensive line sustained numerous injuries throughout the season and was swiss cheese by January.

3. As mentioned in the OP, Dwyer hurt his toe in the game.

Dwyer is due criticism in issues such as weight control and commitment, but there's really no questioning his athleticism, speed, or ability to run the football. You're taking a myopic stance by saying that Greene is a better player/prospect because he ran better in the Outback bowl behind Ferentz's offensive line than did Dwyer in the Orange bowl behind a handful of back-up OL against a Ferentz defensive line.

stingray
03-16-2010, 02:46 PM
Did you catch this past "Orange Bowl"? Iowa beat GT 24-14 without Greene while Dwyer carried the rock 14 times 49 yards & no TD's. I came into the game with an open mind, I left dissapointed & took Dwyer off my priority RB list then & there, game film counts too. Shonn Greene by comparision in the "Outback Bowl" rushed for 121 yards on 29 carries & scored three TD's in a 31-10 romp over South Carolina.

that's one question scouts always ask is he a "big lights" player?

shonn greene - yes
jonathan dwyer - no

I don't think one game makes a college career, as important as it was.

beerlover
03-16-2010, 02:47 PM
You're oversimplifying the issue. If people want to discredit Dwyer's accmplishments because of the system he plays in, you're obligated to address the system when it hinders his play, as well.

1. Iowa's front 7 completely owned Georgia Tech's running game. They were well coached and athletically superior. Tech's offense was completely overmatched in the first half which lost them the game.

2. Tech's offensive line sustained numerous injuries throughout the season and was swiss cheese by January.

3. As mentioned in the OP, Dwyer hurt his toe in the game.

Dwyer is due criticism in issues such as weight control and commitment, but there's really no questioning his athleticism, speed, or ability to run the football. You're taking a myopic stance by saying that Greene is a better player/prospect because he ran better in the Outback bowl behind Ferentz's offensive line than did Dwyer in the Orange bowl behind a handful of back-up OL against a Ferentz defensive line.

I'm able to seperate the system from the player but thankyou for the advise. Winners step up in key moments when the system fails or lets them down its called leadership. I'm not concerned with his weight, although I like him heavier/stronger than lighter/weaker. His speed is nothing special, I'm not running to take him off the board because he runs a 4.55 either. Greene is a better prospect because he is a better football player, that just happens to be one example. to compare the two is far-fetched IMO :shades:

Blake
03-16-2010, 02:54 PM
You're oversimplifying the issue. If people want to discredit Dwyer's accmplishments because of the system he plays in, you're obligated to address the system when it hinders his play, as well.

1. Iowa's front 7 completely owned Georgia Tech's running game. They were well coached and athletically superior. Tech's offense was completely overmatched in the first half which lost them the game.

2. Tech's offensive line sustained numerous injuries throughout the season and was swiss cheese by January.

3. As mentioned in the OP, Dwyer hurt his toe in the game.

Dwyer is due criticism in issues such as weight control and commitment, but there's really no questioning his athleticism, speed, or ability to run the football. You're taking a myopic stance by saying that Greene is a better player/prospect because he ran better in the Outback bowl behind Ferentz's offensive line than did Dwyer in the Orange bowl behind a handful of back-up OL against a Ferentz defensive line.

Great post. If people want to put Dwyer #10 in their top RB's list that is fine. But be prepared to eat crow next year.

nero THE zero
03-16-2010, 03:00 PM
I'm able to seperate the system from the player but thankyou for the advise. Winners step up in key moments when the system fails or lets them down its called leadership. I'm not concerned with his weight, although I like him heavier/stronger than lighter/weaker. His speed is nothing special, I'm not running to take him off the board because he runs a 4.55 either. Greene is a better prospect because he is a better football player, that just happens to be one example. to compare the two is far-fetched IMO :shades:

Player A: 5'11", 227lbs., 4.62, 376 carries, 2,228 yards (5.9YPC), 22TD
Player B: 5'11", 229lbs., 4.59, 517 carries, 3,226 yards (6.2YPC), 35TD

Way far-fetched.

beerlover
03-16-2010, 03:01 PM
Great post. If people want to put Dwyer #10 in their top RB's list that is fine. But be prepared to eat crow next year.

I will never "eat crow" but if the Texans draft him I will find something better to do :worldpeace:

badboy
03-16-2010, 03:49 PM
Did you catch this past "Orange Bowl"? Iowa beat GT 24-14 without Greene while Dwyer carried the rock 14 times 49 yards & no TD's. I came into the game with an open mind, I left dissapointed & took Dwyer off my priority RB list then & there, game film counts too. Shonn Greene by comparision in the "Outback Bowl" rushed for 121 yards on 29 carries & scored three TD's in a 31-10 romp over South Carolina.

that's one question scouts always ask is he a "big lights" player?

shonn greene - yes
jonathan dwyer - noThis is exactly what made me take Dwyer off my board. We always look to see how athletes do in "big situations."

Blake
03-16-2010, 04:05 PM
Did you catch this past "Orange Bowl"? Iowa beat GT 24-14 without Greene while Dwyer carried the rock 14 times 49 yards & no TD's. I came into the game with an open mind, I left dissapointed & took Dwyer off my priority RB list then & there, game film counts too. Shonn Greene by comparision in the "Outback Bowl" rushed for 121 yards on 29 carries & scored three TD's in a 31-10 romp over South Carolina.

that's one question scouts always ask is he a "big lights" player?

This is exactly what made me take Dwyer off my board. We always look to see how athletes do in "big situations."

So let me get this straight. Yall drop Dwyer to #10 for his unspectacular (14 carries for 49 yards & no TD's) durring his "big lights" Orange bowl game, but somehow Montario Hardesty rises to #4 in yalls list with an amazing (18 carries for 39 yards and 1 TD) in his "big lights" Chick-fil-a Bowl.

An Amazing 2.17 YPC!!!!

What you do for one you need to do for the other.

:wild:

TexansSeminole
03-16-2010, 04:07 PM
So let me get this straight. Yall drop Dwyer to #10 for his unspectacular (14 carries for 49 yards & no TD's) durring his "big lights" Orange bowl game, but somehow Montario Hardesty rises to #4 with an amazing (18 carries for 39 yards and 1 TD) in his "big lights" Chick-fil-a Bowl.

An Amazing 2.17 YPC!!!!

What you do for one you need to do for the other.

:wild:

Seems like the college forum has taken a turn for the worse here over the past couple of months. Alot of people think they are the "scout" of the group.

Dutchrudder
03-16-2010, 04:12 PM
I like Jonathan Dwyer so much, that I will be happy for the Detroit Lions when pick him at #34. They need a good RB, and we all know Matthews will be off the board at #20 or #26.

rmartin65
03-16-2010, 04:13 PM
Great post. If people want to put Dwyer #10 in their top RB's list that is fine. But be prepared to eat crow next year.

I would bet that most of the backs (I cant say all) will have better careers than Dwyer. I dont like the system he ran in, I dont like how runs, etc.

Tenth best RB in this draft.

Dutchrudder
03-16-2010, 04:45 PM
So let me get this straight. Yall drop Dwyer to #10 for his unspectacular (14 carries for 49 yards & no TD's) durring his "big lights" Orange bowl game, but somehow Montario Hardesty rises to #4 in yalls list with an amazing (18 carries for 39 yards and 1 TD) in his "big lights" Chick-fil-a Bowl.

An Amazing 2.17 YPC!!!!

What you do for one you need to do for the other.

:wild:

I think you are completely ignoring the fact that Montario is an awesome name.

nero THE zero
03-16-2010, 04:49 PM
So let me get this straight. Yall drop Dwyer to #10 for his unspectacular (14 carries for 49 yards & no TD's) durring his "big lights" Orange bowl game, but somehow Montario Hardesty rises to #4 in yalls list with an amazing (18 carries for 39 yards and 1 TD) in his "big lights" Chick-fil-a Bowl.

An Amazing 2.17 YPC!!!!

What you do for one you need to do for the other.

:wild:
Adrian Peterson managed a whole 60 yards in his last bowl game.

Bust.

TheRealJoker
03-16-2010, 06:58 PM
I think Greene is a better RB but his older age and the fact he only really had one good year (due to academic ineligibility making him take classes at a CC) of D1 football caused him to slip to the 3rd round.

Dwyer is younger and has a larger body of work. I wouldn't judge him based on a game against one of the top defenses in college football last season, if not the best defense period. There weren't too many offensive players who looked good against that Hawkeyes defense last year.

The defense was the only reason the Hawkeyes were even ranked to be honest. This is coming from someone who watched every Iowa game last season. Injuries and youth on offense caused them to rely on the defense quite a lot more than a BCS football team should've had to, yet the defense came through almost every time!!!

Ole Miss Texan
03-16-2010, 07:53 PM
The system Dwyer is coming from, the triple-option, will not be run by the Texans. Dwyer is not as developed as a RB as we would hope or want. I suspect the Texans will take a look at him, and every RB in the draft, and see if they believe he would be coachable to be of benefit to us. Although I like other RB's better, if the Texans take him its b/c they think he can be a player for us... and one thing coaches are paid to do is coach a player into the best that he can be. I view this as Dwyer having a littler work cut out for him but not as something he can't overcome.

painekiller
03-16-2010, 08:42 PM
IIRC most of the player we drafted had never talked to the Texans outside of the combine or the scout on campus. And iirc they did not take any of the guys they brought in. They seem to use the brought in to eliminate the prospect.

Now I might have missed a player or two... but most guys are not aware the Texans are interested.

JCTexan
03-16-2010, 08:50 PM
IIRC most of the player we drafted had never talked to the Texans outside of the combine or the scout on campus. And iirc they did not take any of the guys they brought in. They seem to use the brought in to eliminate the prospect.

Now I might have missed a player or two... but most guys are not aware the Texans are interested.

IIRC they brought in both Jacoby Jones and Antwaun Molden the years they were drafted, so I doubt they bring them in just to eliminate them.

beerlover
03-16-2010, 09:10 PM
Adrian Peterson managed a whole 60 yards in his last bowl game.

Bust.

scoreboard, did the Sooners win? was that the infamous Fiesta Bowl against Boise State (22 rushes for 77, average 3.9, 2 TD, 2 REC, 9 Yards)?

think he missed like 7 straight games before so probably just a little rust. However I was never down on him you could see he was prime time all along to now compare w/Dwyer is really taking this to a new level, I'll even make up a new name for it far-fetch'idy :specnatz:

playa465
03-16-2010, 10:49 PM
Haven't seen much of Dwyer, but using the type of offense he comes from as a reason to beware should hold the least weight. There have been good running backs in the NFL that have come from wishbone, options, spreads etc. in college.

Kaiser Toro
03-17-2010, 07:07 AM
Seems like the college forum has taken a turn for the worse here over the past couple of months. Alot of people think they are the "scout" of the group.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Mr teX
03-17-2010, 08:51 AM
Haven't seen much of Dwyer, but using the type of offense he comes from as a reason to beware should hold the least weight. There have been good running backs in the NFL that have come from wishbone, options, spreads etc. in college.

Pretty much what i was thinking. For 1, nearly every college football team has an option package of some type, GT just happens to run alot of it.

& 2, Dwyer is just the kind of every down back Kubes has been looking for all along imo. he's a downhill runner, that doesn't have a whole lot of wiggle & will make his 1 cut & go. He's also got the weight to be able to take an NFL pounding. Decent hands, pretty good pass blocker &...............he doesn't fumble at all it appears. He doesn't have the top end speed you would like, but he's fast & strong enough to take 1 to the house if he breaks loose.

I really wanted the texans to draft shonn greene last year & ray rice the year before that for these exact reasons but if we get this guy, he'll suffice imo b/c he reminds me of both. I'd say it's a real possibility the texans go after him in the 2nd somewhere. which would disappoint me b/c i think we should give foster more of a shot & also because we have more pressing needs imo, but i certainly won't be disappointed if we wind up drafting dwyer.

infantrycak
03-17-2010, 10:12 AM
Pretty much what i was thinking. For 1, nearly every college football team has an option package of some type, GT just happens to run alot of it.

& 2, Dwyer is just the kind of every down back Kubes has been looking for all along imo. he's a downhill runner, that doesn't have a whole lot of wiggle & will make his 1 cut & go. He's also got the weight to be able to take an NFL pounding.

You just described what some Texans fans want not what Kubiak has been looking for all along. Examine the record of Kubiak and Shanahan and it isn't drafting RBs who "don't have a whole lot of wiggle." They don't like dancers but wiggle and an initial burst in the first 3 steps is huge to their system. They also have rarely resorted to RBs over 215 lbs to be able to have the weight to take a pounding.

Decent hands, pretty good pass blocker &...............he doesn't fumble at all it appears. He doesn't have the top end speed you would like, but he's fast & strong enough to take 1 to the house if he breaks loose.

I really wanted the texans to draft shonn greene last year & ray rice the year before that for these exact reasons but if we get this guy, he'll suffice imo b/c he reminds me of both.

Ray Rice and Dwyer don't run anything alike. They are closer to the opposite ends of the spectrum in this debate on running style for the Texans. Rice would be a great fit here.

badboy
03-17-2010, 11:26 AM
So let me get this straight. Yall drop Dwyer to #10 for his unspectacular (14 carries for 49 yards & no TD's) durring his "big lights" Orange bowl game, but somehow Montario Hardesty rises to #4 in yalls list with an amazing (18 carries for 39 yards and 1 TD) in his "big lights" Chick-fil-a Bowl.

An Amazing 2.17 YPC!!!!

What you do for one you need to do for the other.

:wild:I have not dropped Dwyer to # 10 just off my choices for Texans. Not speaking for anyone else. You just do not seem to want to admit there are some questions about whether the Texans should draft this guy.

Mr teX
03-17-2010, 01:26 PM
You just described what some Texans fans want not what Kubiak has been looking for all along. Examine the record of Kubiak and Shanahan and it isn't drafting RBs who "don't have a whole lot of wiggle." They don't like dancers but wiggle and an initial burst in the first 3 steps is huge to their system. They also have rarely resorted to RBs over 215 lbs to be able to have the weight to take a pounding.



Ray Rice and Dwyer don't run anything alike. They are closer to the opposite ends of the spectrum in this debate on running style for the Texans. Rice would be a great fit here.

The comparison to rice was only in the sense that both have pretty good hands out of the backfield & both had questions about speed both ways coming out.

As far as kubes' drafting of rb's, he's only drafted 2. 1 was a heavier 6th rounder not expected to do anything, the other a lighter 3rd rounder not expected to be an every down back.

You can garner way more from the type of guys he's brought in through FA. & it's fairly overwhelming. Dayne, Brown, Green, Foster were all on the heavier side. Hell even Chris Taylor was a bigger guy. & the major reasons those guys didn't/haven't worked out is b/c of injuries & being at the end of their careers.

Kubes has undoubtedly noticed teams in the league switching to the speed & power 2-back system in waves & wants in even if it means altering his Denver philosophy about rb's a little. Especially with him already having the "speed" back in Steve Slaton & him being just good enough not to cast aside but being "who we thought he was" lol. Matthews & Dwyer both fit that deliver a blow power type rb but Dwyer moreso than Matthews. Furthermore Matthews is surely not going to be there in the 2nd. Dwyer could be. So you may ask, why not snatch Matthews in the 1st? & the answer to that is he knows that his defense needs way more help than his offense.

dalemurphy
03-17-2010, 01:43 PM
Pro style offenses throw the ball. GT did not throw the ball. They ran the triple option. It was not just a formation, it was their entire offense.

This is why the workouts are important for a guy like this. If you recall, TCU ran an option offense when Tomlinson was there. And, SD took a fair amount of heat for drafting him so high. There was a lot of talk that Tomlinson's game wouldn't translate to the NFL. As it turns out, he was excellent as a pass blocker, pass receiver, and even as a passer.

infantrycak
03-17-2010, 02:29 PM
You can garner way more from the type of guys he's brought in through FA. & it's fairly overwhelming. Dayne, Brown, Green, Foster were all on the heavier side. Hell even Chris Taylor was a bigger guy. & the major reasons those guys didn't/haven't worked out is b/c of injuries & being at the end of their careers.

Well I disagree with that first assertion. When you are looking for who is going to start and who money is going to be spent on you look at who has started and who has money been spent on not the guys brought in to be backups. Plus what is your heavier side definition? Green is 218 lbs and Foster is 215 lbs. You also mentioned Lundy and he went 211 lbs. I think the cutoff most commonly used is 220 lbs. But I don't want to over emphasize size either. I don't think they have a no bigger backs rule either - it is how they run that counts the most to them I believe.

Mr teX
03-17-2010, 03:18 PM
Well I disagree with that first assertion. When you are looking for who is going to start and who money is going to be spent on you look at who has started and who has money been spent on not the guys brought in to be backups. Plus what is your heavier side definition? Green is 218 lbs and Foster is 215 lbs. You also mentioned Lundy and he went 211 lbs. I think the cutoff most commonly used is 220 lbs. But I don't want to over emphasize size either. I don't think they have a no bigger backs rule either - it is how they run that counts the most to them I believe.

I agree to an extent although i didn't quite understand what you meant by the bold.

220 is fastly becoming the old cutoff. If you weigh that much now they think you're a little too big unless you run a 4.4. the new cutoff is fastly becoming 218 lbs.

And I'm talking about guys who already have the weight or have the frame to carry that bulk needed without losing anything. At least a legit 215 guy that when you look at them, you can see it or see they have the frame for it. Example, Slaton is listed at 215, but once he starts playing he'll drop back down to his 205-7 range. It was one of the main knocks on bush when he came out.

infantrycak
03-17-2010, 04:43 PM
I agree to an extent although i didn't quite understand what you meant by the bold.

What I mean by that is if you want to figure out a coach or front offices habits in making 1st day draft choices and attempting to find starters you look at who they have drafted on the 1st day and who they have picked as starters. You don't look at guys specifically brought in to be backups like Dayne and Brown

220 is fastly becoming the old cutoff. If you weigh that much now they think you're a little too big unless you run a 4.4. the new cutoff is fastly becoming 218 lbs.

Did you really just make a 2 lb distinction?

And I'm talking about guys who already have the weight or have the frame to carry that bulk needed without losing anything. At least a legit 215 guy that when you look at them, you can see it or see they have the frame for it. Example, Slaton is listed at 215, but once he starts playing he'll drop back down to his 205-7 range. It was one of the main knocks on bush when he came out.

Slaton specifically bulked up last year and I don't think he dropped much during the season but he may not choose to come back that heavy this year. But I understand the frame point. I do think teams are concerned about under 200 lb RBs. Bush was 195 lb coming out of USC and 200 or thereabouts at the combine. Spiller is going to be the 1st RB picked and is in that same size range.

Fact is fans trying to figure out what coaches think and pattern it often lose the picture that what matters is who is available both in that position and in others. Things have to line up just right. Like the DeAngelo trade that never happened. Kind of debunks the "will never draft a RB in the 1st" characterization that gets thrown around. Or say the Texans pass on Spiller because he sucks in pass protection and take Mathews based on film. Fans will say it was because they were looking for a bigger RB. Only a tiny amount of information slips out of the black box that is an NFL franchise.

bckey
03-19-2010, 10:08 AM
Kind of debunks the "will never draft a RB in the 1st" characterization that gets thrown around.

You keep bringing this DeAngelo Williams trade up that never happened as proof Kubiak is willing to draft a rb in the 1st round. In the end it didn't happen possibly because Kubiak didn't think rb was valuable enough to move up 6 or 7 spots from the 2nd round 1st pick back into the 1st round at 27 or even 26 to get ahead of Carolina. Houston definately had the power to do it because that year they had the 1st two picks of the 3rd round. Heck, it could have even been a smokescreen just to appease fans and media that thought Reggie Bush (RB) should have been taken 1st overall by saying they tried to get the rb they wanted but ultimately were beaten out by Carolina. The fact is we don't know. But we do know that Kubiak has never taken a rb in the first round. So until that changes fans will continue to say Kubiak never takes a rb in the 1st round.

As a side note I would love to see Mathews in a Texans uniform. I think he would be a fantastic fit for the Texans. Don't count out San Diego moving up to get him either. If the Texans put out a good enough smokescreen about their love for Mathews then we just might see the Chargers move up to knab him. They have the power to move up as high as the 13th pick to jump ahead of Seattle or even Atlanta at 19 (just ahead of Houston) who doesn't have a 2nd round pick.

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2010, 10:30 AM
You keep bringing this DeAngelo Williams trade up that never happened as proof Kubiak is willing to draft a rb in the 1st round. In the end it didn't happen possibly because Kubiak didn't think rb was valuable enough to move up 6 or 7 spots from the 2nd round 1st pick back into the 1st round at 27 or even 26 to get ahead of Carolina. Houston definately had the power to do it because that year they had the 1st two picks of the 3rd round. Heck, it could have even been a smokescreen just to appease fans and media that thought Reggie Bush (RB) should have been taken 1st overall by saying they tried to get the rb they wanted but ultimately were beaten out by Carolina. The fact is we don't know. But we do know that Kubiak has never taken a rb in the first round. So until that changes fans will continue to say Kubiak never takes a rb in the 1st round.
It wasn't really reported until well after the fact and I'd say 95% of the fanbase still doesn't know about this. And Kubiak seems too straight forward to really care about appeasing the fanbase this way. Whether it happened or not isn't the point. Let's put it this way: bckey and ole miss texan go to lunch once a week on a regular basis. bckey always orders a turkey, roast beef or chicken sandwich; NEVER a ham sandwich. Finally one day at the deli, bckey tells the waitress "I will have a ham sandwich, that's what I need today." the waitress responds, "sorry, ole miss texan just ordered the last of the ham." you still didn't order or get the ham sandwich but you proved that you were willing to order one. Just like Kubiak trying to trade up proved he would be willing to take a RB in the "first round" if he thought that was of value.

As a side note I would love to see Mathews in a Texans uniform. I think he would be a fantastic fit for the Texans. Don't count out San Diego moving up to get him either. If the Texans put out a good enough smokescreen about their love for Mathews then we just might see the Chargers move up to knab him. They have the power to move up as high as the 13th pick to jump ahead of Seattle or even Atlanta at 19 (just ahead of Houston) who doesn't have a 2nd round pick.
That's a really good point about SD possibly moving up if they really really like Matthews. The way this draft is set up, it wouldn't surprise me if a few teams would be willing to trade down with them and get better value on a guy at 26.

infantrycak
03-19-2010, 03:40 PM
You keep bringing this DeAngelo Williams trade up that never happened as proof Kubiak is willing to draft a rb in the 1st round. In the end it didn't happen possibly because Kubiak didn't think rb was valuable enough to move up 6 or 7 spots from the 2nd round 1st pick back into the 1st round at 27 or even 26 to get ahead of Carolina. Houston definately had the power to do it because that year they had the 1st two picks of the 3rd round. Heck, it could have even been a smokescreen just to appease fans and media that thought Reggie Bush (RB) should have been taken 1st overall by saying they tried to get the rb they wanted but ultimately were beaten out by Carolina. The fact is we don't know. But we do know that Kubiak has never taken a rb in the first round. So until that changes fans will continue to say Kubiak never takes a rb in the 1st round.

Whatever, all that counts for whether he is willing draft a RB in the 1st is the attempt to do so and he did. It's well documented the Texans offered their 2nd and 4th round picks and got outbid with an offer of 2nd and 3rd round picks. And let's just see if they made a legitimate offer:

26 - 700 pts

Texans
33 - 580 pts
98 - 112 pts Total 692 pts

Bills
42 - 480 pts
73 - 225 pts Total 705 pts

They took a real shot at it.

beerlover
03-19-2010, 04:02 PM
Whatever, all that counts for whether he is willing draft a RB in the 1st is the attempt to do so and he did. It's well documented the Texans offered their 2nd and 4th round picks and got outbid with an offer of 2nd and 3rd round picks. And let's just see if they made a legitimate offer:

26 - 700 pts

Texans
33 - 580 pts
98 - 112 pts Total 692 pts

Bills
42 - 480 pts
73 - 225 pts Total 705 pts

They took a real shot at it.

no reflection on DeAngelo but those picks turned into DeMeco Ryans & Owen Daniels so we can all be happy they failed. While Buffalo picks netted Danieal Manning & Dusty Dvoracek.

un-related but I really like sitting earlier rather than latter in 2nd rd. because you can still find 1st rd. talent. this is why my buzz word in a deep class with several possiblities that could help improve Texans is "trade down" the receipe is simple - a late 1st combined with earlier 2nd & throw-in 3rd. this is how the Texans can gain on the field while still off it. translates into TWO IMPACT players & two more with a 50% possiblity.

infantrycak
03-19-2010, 04:16 PM
no reflection on DeAngelo but those picks turned into DeMeco Ryans & Owen Daniels so we can all be happy they failed. While Buffalo picks netted Danieal Manning & Dusty Dvoracek.

And the Bills got John McCargo who has started 1 game in four years. DeAngelo would be a nice addition but I sure am glad the trade didn't go through.

playa465
03-19-2010, 09:12 PM
Let's put it this way: bckey and ole miss texan go to lunch once a week on a regular basis. bckey always orders a turkey, roast beef or chicken sandwich; NEVER a ham sandwich. Finally one day at the deli, bckey tells the waitress "I will have a ham sandwich, that's what I need today." the waitress responds, "sorry, ole miss texan just ordered the last of the ham." you still didn't order or get the ham sandwich but you proved that you were willing to order one. Just like Kubiak trying to trade up proved he would be willing to take a RB in the "first round" if he thought that was of value.

That's a horrible example but I'll take the roast beef sandwich:neener:


That's a really good point about SD possibly moving up if they really really like Matthews. The way this draft is set up, it wouldn't surprise me if a few teams would be willing to trade down with them and get better value on a guy at 26.

Do you think San Diego will make a play for Mathews by trading up since they now have a high 2nd rd pick to play with? I see a lot of message board talk about San Diego wanting a RB to replace Tomlinson, but I just don't see Norv Turner placing the running game high on his priority list. With that high 2nd I would hold tight, just my opinion.

Whatever, all that counts for whether he is willing draft a RB in the 1st is the attempt to do so and he did. It's well documented the Texans offered their 2nd and 4th round picks and got outbid with an offer of 2nd and 3rd round picks.

I only saw this on message boards and blogs...are there news articles that support this, not that it matters now but just asking


un-related but I really like sitting earlier rather than latter in 2nd rd. because you can still find 1st rd. talent. this is why my buzz word in a deep class with several possiblities that could help improve Texans is "trade down" the receipe is simple - a late 1st combined with earlier 2nd & throw-in 3rd. this is how the Texans can gain on the field while still off it. translates into TWO IMPACT players & two more with a 50% possiblity.

This is the same reason why I don't think teams are going to be trading up...the draft seems to be deep with not much difference in players rated 2-5 in their respective positons