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View Full Version : Corneberbacks and Safeties in the draft.


El Tejano
03-11-2010, 04:29 PM
Here is some info I thought might be fun to play with. Especially those of us who are wanting to go with a DB in the first round.

From years 2004-2009 Drafts:

23 Cornerbacks have been taken in the first round. (4 in 04, 5 in 05, 4 in 06, 3 in 07, 5 in 08 and 2 in 09)
Of the 23 first rounders taken:
only 5 have more than 10 ints on the career (Dunta Robinson, Chris Gamble, Darrelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie, Jonathan Joseph)

6 are not with the original team that selected them (Deangelo Hall, Dunta Robinson, Antrell Rolle, Marlin Jackson, Ahmad Carroll,Antonio Cromartie) That's 26% that aren't with their team still.

6 have made the Pro Bowl (Deangelo Hall, Antrel Rolle, Antonio Cromartie, Leon Hall, Dominique Rogers-Cromartie and Mike Jenkins)

they were all selected at 1-11 or 14 - 31, 3 were with the #25 pick.

Safties

0 safties selected in 05 and 09 1st round draft

9 selected in first round from 04-09 draft.

All are still on the team that originally selected them.

3made The Pro Bowl (Sean Taylor, Michael Griffin, Brandon Merriweather)


Discuss......(looks like CB has a bit more chance than a safety does, but if you select right with a safety he will be on your team).

Texecutioner
03-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Here is some info I thought might be fun to play with. Especially those of us who are wanting to go with a DB in the first round.

From years 2004-2009 Drafts:

23 Cornerbacks have been taken in the first round. (4 in 04, 5 in 05, 4 in 06, 3 in 07, 5 in 08 and 2 in 09)
Of the 23 first rounders taken:
only 5 have more than 10 ints on the career (Dunta Robinson, Chris Gamble, Darrelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie, Jonathan Joseph)

6 are not with the original team that selected them (Deangelo Hall, Dunta Robinson, Antrell Rolle, Marlin Jackson, Ahmad Carroll,Antonio Cromartie) That's 26% that aren't with their team still.

6 have made the Pro Bowl (Deangelo Hall, Antrel Rolle, Antonio Cromartie, Leon Hall, Dominique Rogers-Cromartie and Mike Jenkins)

they were all selected at 1-11 or 14 - 31, 3 were with the #25 pick.

Safties

0 safties selected in 05 and 09 1st round draft

9 selected in first round from 04-09 draft.

All are still on the team that originally selected them.

2 made The Pro Bowl (Sean Taylor and Michael Griffin)


Discuss......(looks like CB has a bit more chance than a safety does, but if you select right with a safety he will be on your team).

Weren't Polumolu and Ed Reed both drafted in the first round?

El Tejano
03-11-2010, 04:41 PM
Not in those drafts. I don't believe. They were selected in the first round in 2003. I just went back 5 years.

gtexan02
03-11-2010, 04:45 PM
Brandon Merriweather was selected in the 1st round and made the probowl this year

El Tejano
03-11-2010, 04:49 PM
Brandon Merriweather was selected in the 1st round and made the probowl this year

My bad. Had him on my list forgot to list him as one that made the Pro Bowl. I'll edit. There fixed.

gtexan02
03-11-2010, 04:58 PM
No prob. I also looked through this.

Since 2005, ther ehave been 26 DBs taken, and out of those, 6 (at least that I could tell) had made the probowl. Thats ~25%

Since 2005, there have been 15 defensive tackles drafted in the 1st round, and of those, 1 has made the probowl. Thats 7%.

Maybe DTs take longer to develop. Maybe its been a bad decade for DTs. Whatever the reason, if we want a quick impact, drafting a DT is a bad idea for us

2slik4u
03-11-2010, 05:18 PM
No prob. I also looked through this.

Since 2005, ther ehave been 26 DBs taken, and out of those, 6 (at least that I could tell) had made the probowl. Thats ~25%

Since 2005, there have been 15 defensive tackles drafted in the 1st round, and of those, 1 has made the probowl. Thats 7%.

Maybe DTs take longer to develop. Maybe its been a bad decade for DTs. Whatever the reason, if we want a quick impact, drafting a DT is a bad idea for us

Hopefully thats the case with Okoye. Im still hangin on to whatever I can with this guy. Im giving him one more year based solely on his age, if nothing comes in 2010, he is borderline manderich status (IMO, just kidding...but not really).

El Tejano
03-11-2010, 06:16 PM
Hopefully thats the case with Okoye. Im still hangin on to whatever I can with this guy. Im giving him one more year based solely on his age, if nothing comes in 2010, he is borderline manderich status (IMO, just kidding...but not really).

Actually that draft with Adam Karriker and all those guys (I think the 08 draft?) had alot of DTs as well as the 06 draft with John Mccargo.

awtysst
03-13-2010, 10:23 AM
It is clear that CB/S is a more early impact position.
It would be interesting to do an analysis over the past 10 years and see how many DBs vs DT are impact players taken in the first 2 rounds. THEN do an analysis which charted how long iot took on average for that position to show dominance. THAT would be an interesting thing to read. I am NOT volunteering to do the analysis though!!!

beerlover
03-13-2010, 12:30 PM
It is clear that CB/S is a more early impact position.
It would be interesting to do an analysis over the past 10 years and see how many DBs vs DT are impact players taken in the first 2 rounds. THEN do an analysis which charted how long iot took on average for that position to show dominance. THAT would be an interesting thing to read. I am NOT volunteering to do the analysis though!!!

NFL Network did a study on what position had the most first round picks since 2000 & it wasn't either CB or Safety so if it's that clear CB/S has more early impact the facts don't support this view.

El Tejano
03-13-2010, 09:34 PM
After stepping away from this info I looked up myself, it really looks like CB is a position you can get a player that stays on your team, but if you want a difference maker, safety is the position to go for. While few (9) have been selected in the first round, 3 of those made the Pro Bowl and were part of some very good defenses arguably because of their play (Sean Taylor, Mike Griffin, Brandon Merriweather). In fact take a look at Sean Taylor, while he was there they went to the playoffs. After his passing, the defense went down quite a bit. Not saying they are the only reason for their teams defensive success but that a large contribution comes from them.

Someone suggested that Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu were selected in the first. That was in 03 and we can pretty much see how the two of them turned out to be All Pros. The Steelers prove my point too. When Troy was there,they win. Without him they can be beat by KC etc...

Darren Sharper made quite a difference for the Saints too.

Bernard Pollard, while not a FS, is also a perfect example of how our team improved over the season. No more long TD runs, INTs in crucial situations.

I'm just saying that if a guy like Earl Thomas is there @ 20 we gotta roll the dice on him.

TheRealJoker
03-13-2010, 11:04 PM
I'm just saying that if a guy like Earl Thomas is there @ 20 we gotta roll the dice on him.

I wouldn't call drafting Thomas "rolling the dice". That's about as safe a pick as we can make at 20. Similar to Cushing, at worst he would be a solid player barring injury.

awtysst
03-13-2010, 11:33 PM
NFL Network did a study on what position had the most first round picks since 2000 & it wasn't either CB or Safety so if it's that clear CB/S has more early impact the facts don't support this view.

I was comparing S/CB to DT. There are more S/CB that make an early impact than DTs. I believe the numbers support me here.

El Tejano
03-15-2010, 10:18 AM
I was comparing S/CB to DT. There are more S/CB that make an early impact than DTs. I believe the numbers support me here.

I think it also depends on what you mean by impact. When it comes to DT, it's so hard to determine if they busted or not because there really isn't a stat that says how many times you blocked OL off of LBs, and that is one of their primary goals. You can't really use sacks because sacks come so few for DTs. With CBs and safeties you have balls deflected, balls intercepted, tackles, sacks, fumble recoveries, forced fumbles, TDs etc....

steelbtexan
03-15-2010, 11:45 AM
Draft Earl Thomas.

I've gone back and forth between Thomas/Mathews/D.Williams.

Thomas is the safest pick at a position of need.

We can only hope he's available at 20.

LonerATO
03-16-2010, 07:43 PM
Texans could always Draft Cook UVA CB/FS and later draft another CB in Priest from TCU

HOU-TEX
03-17-2010, 12:40 PM
We can probably move Haden back up to the top of the 1st round.

Florida CB Joe Haden reportedly timed in the mid-4.4 range on both of his forty-yard dash runs at the Gators' Pro Day.

According to some stopwatches, Haden clocked as fast as the 4.3s despite a soggy, sloppy grass field in Gainesville. The draft's top cornerback, Haden has helped his stock immensely after timing in the 4.57-4.60 range with poor running technique and a lower back sprain at the Scouting Combine. We no longer see him getting past San Francisco at No. 13 overall.

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/home_NFL.aspx

The Pencil Neck
03-17-2010, 01:47 PM
We can probably move Haden back up to the top of the 1st round.



http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/home_NFL.aspx

Ah, well. C'est la vie.

El Tejano
03-18-2010, 11:19 AM
Y'all asked about DT information. Here it is:

The number of 1st Round DTs from 2004-2009
6 - 3 every year.

Best DT 1st round Draft Class
2004 had Two Pro Bowlers (Tommie Harris and Vince Wilfork) and avg. the most tackles and sacks. (187/13.8)

Percentage still on team

77% - Only two DTs from 04-09 are not with their original that selected them. Travis Johnson (05) who was traded after 4 years, and Marcus Tubbs (04) who only played 3 years.

Number of 1st Round Pro Bowlers from 04-09
3 (Tommie Harris and Vince Wilfork in 04 and Haloti Ngata in 06) 6% of total from 04-09.

Top 10 DT 1st round picks from 04-09

3

Picked 11-20

6

20-32

8 - to teams like Philly, San Diego, Bills (who got that pick through trade in 06/not a playoff team) 49ers, Falcons (playoffs), Steelers (Super Bowl Champs), Chicago, and New England.

I was suprised to see how few DTs were selected in the first round during that time period. When I think of how The Texans need impact players RIGHT NOW to get in the playoffs, I'm realizing how the first round is not for us to pick a DT. I'm curious how many later round DTs have made a bigger impact. Even if you look at the DTs that were selected last year, and many here and on TV said they would be studs, BJ Raji was the most productive with 25 tackles and 1 sack.

For my money, I'm going with a DB (hopefully a saftey named Earl Thomas) in the first round. Seems like even a RB has a better chance than a DT does in the first round to be more productive.

Perhaps if I were a team like that was already a playoff team, super bowl contender or super bowl champ, I would spend it on at DT. They after all had the later picks and picked the most DTs from 04-09. They also had the most success. Perhaps because their D was already good and they added a DT as a contributor, not a solution.

The teams that picked a DT in the first top 10, 2 out of 3 haven't made the playoffs (Hou, KC) and the one that did, well it wasn't because of BJ Raji.

The teams that picked the middle 11-20 are typically teams that didn't make the playoffs or a playoff contender, only Broderick Bunkley and Haloti Ngata were picked that are worth anything. Thats 2 out of 6 over 04-09. Not good for a team looking for their first pick to be a impact player and push them to the playoffs.

badboy
03-18-2010, 11:34 AM
Texans could always Draft Cook UVA CB/FS and later draft another CB in Priest from TCUCook impressed no one at the combine except for his speed. Not someone Texans should be inteested in.

I know it is an over simplification, but CBs usually focus only on the WR they are assigned to. Texans rarely use CBs to blitz although hopefully that will change this year. DT can be blocked by guards, center, maybe the full back and the HB. The play can be to stop the RB or crush the pocket to rattle & hopefully sack the QB. Our DTs don't know about this play yet. The goal for the DT is tackle the ball carrier. CBs don't have to touch their opponent to interrupt the pass. Again this is an over simplification.

El Tejano
03-18-2010, 12:30 PM
What about the numbers on the DTs? What do yall think?