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steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 03:55 PM
I dont know how to make a poll but how long until the Texans make the playoffs?

Also not directed at just the sunshiners but I really would like to here from the sunshiners what would you do to improve the Texans chances of making the playoffs?

Some say the FO has done a good job aquiring talent. Others say the FO isn't doing the things necessary to imprve the team to make the playoffs. What would you do?

Some think Kubes is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Others think he's rainman.

Some think everything is hunky dory. Other are just about to wring their hands of this team.

After comparing things with I-Cak in another thread I realized that the Texans aren't that far away from the Saints.

There's something missing, what is it? And how does it get fixed?

I would love to here other fans opinions on where the Texans go from here.

badboy
03-10-2010, 04:14 PM
I dont know how to make a poll but how long until the Texans make the playoffs?

Also not directed at just the sunshiners but I really would like to here from the sunshiners what would you do to improve the Texans chances of making the playoffs?

Some say the FO has done a good job aquiring talent. Others say the FO isn't doing the things necessary to imprve the team to make the playoffs. What would you do?

Some think Kubes is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Others think he's rainman.

Some think everything is hunky dory. Other are just about to wring their hands of this team.

After comparing things with I-Cak in another thread I realized that the Texans aren't that far away from the Saints.

There's something missing, what is it? And how does it get fixed?

I would love to here other fans opinions on where the Texans go from here.We had impact players from the last draft imo: Cushing pro bowl, Barwin 4 1/2 sacks;Caldwell ? but may start RG, QUinn CB that started several games and may replace DR and McCain who looked pretty good as a nickle Cb, UDFA Foster may well be our power guy.

Another draft like that and a healthy year and we could easily go deep this next season. I think a back like Ryan Mathews could have a Cushing type impact.

Thorn
03-10-2010, 04:19 PM
I think we are right on the cusp. It doesn't look like much else of importance will happen in free agency (other that signing our own players), so it boils down to the draft or trades, and training camp to be more accurate about predictions.

Texan_Bill
03-10-2010, 04:32 PM
I think we are right on the cusp too. However, I also believe the Texans need more experience. More experience in how to win the close games or games that come down to the wire. Also, what core member of this team has any playoff experience? 'Meco? No. Mario? No. Cush? No. AJ? No. Schuab? No. etc. etc..

The naysayers, will say that having the youngest average age for starters means nothing. Au contraire. It means exactly what happened last year. Sure you can put a couple of games on the K.C. and the Brown Band, but even with that said, an experienced group would find ways to overcome some of those situations and other adversity.

JB
03-10-2010, 04:39 PM
I think we are right on the cusp too. However, I also believe the Texans need more experience. More experience in how to win the close games or games that come down to the wire. Also, what core member of this team has any playoff experience? 'Meco? No. Mario? No. Cush? No. AJ? No. Schuab? No. etc. etc..

The naysayers, will say that having the youngest average age for starters means nothing. Au contraire. It means exactly what happened last year. Sure you can put a couple of games on the K.C. and the Brown Band, but even with that said, an experienced group would find ways to overcome some of those situations and other adversity.

Good Point! A key veteran would help out alot.

Thorn
03-10-2010, 05:19 PM
Good Point! A key veteran would help out alot.

Excellent! Let's go get us some old running backs! LOL

I kid...but I agree with your point.

Texan_Bill
03-10-2010, 05:30 PM
Good Point! A key veteran would help out alot.

Excellent! Let's go get us some old running backs! LOL

I kid...but I agree with your point.

I'm not even saying that. I'm saying let this very young core group of guys grow up together. These are the teams stars and these are the guys that need to learn how to win. We've tried the old wiley vet thingy.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 08:42 PM
This team is in dire need of leadership. IMHO

I dont know how they are going to add that leadership but until they do they will contniue to be a middle of the pack kinda team.

Carr Bombed
03-10-2010, 08:47 PM
This team is in dire need of leadership. IMHO

I dont know how they are going to add that leadership but until they do they will contniue to be a middle of the pack kinda team.

His name is Keith Bulluck if the Titans let him go....which they are rumored to do just that.

Texan_Bill
03-10-2010, 08:49 PM
This team is in dire need of leadership. IMHO

I dont know how they are going to add that leadership but until they do they will contniue to be a middle of the pack kinda team.

What kinda leadership? DeMeco on defense? Andre Johnson on offense? Mario? Maybe even Cushing? Schaub? What kind of leadership are you talking about? A 'mouth' like Gary Walker?

The leadership is there. They, as a very young unit, just need to learn how to win close games, and games coming down to the wire. How do they do that? By learning from seasons like last year.

Carr Bombed
03-10-2010, 08:55 PM
What kinda leadership? DeMeco on defense? Andre Johnson on offense? Mario? Maybe even Cushing? Schaub? What kind of leadership are you talking about? A 'mouth' like Gary Walker?

The leadership is there. They, as a very young unit, just need to learn how to win close games, and games coming down to the wire. How do they do that? By learning from seasons like last year.

DeMeco tries to be, but we need a ass kicker, let's go in their house and take no prisoners and even kick their mothers in the ass type of guy. Cushing is the guy I have the biggest hope for.

Andre Johnson doesn't talk and leads by example on the field, which is great, because it helps keep egos in check, but he isn't much of a rah rah locker room guy.

Basically when you think about it, it isn't much of a "leadership" problem as more as it's a "attitude" problem. Think about it, we all got pissed at Bulluck when he said he was going to come to Houston and knock us off our high horse and out of the playoff race........but what actually happened? He and his team did just that? We need a guy who'll actually drop some press clipings, get some people in the locker room to play with a little more anger/pride on the field (Mario I'm looking at you), and bring MORE ATTITUDE. That kind of attitude only comes with confidence and swagger of having "been there before, expect to be there again, and every other year". That's the difference between veteran leadership/attitude, and the players we currently have on this team who don't even know if they've had their "turn the corner" moment yet.

When I look at this team, I see a team that has ALOT of the right pieces, but just might not know the way. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in a grizzled vet.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 09:02 PM
His name is Keith Bulluck if the Titans let him go....which they are rumored to do just that.

Good choice

I'm not saying Mawae but somebody like him to lead the OL. A guy who after a bad 1st half can help rally the troops. He can also teach the ypug guys (our OL is very young) how to prepare for a big game.

Or Sharper to lead the secondary. Aguy that can get the S lined up correctly so that MJD doesn't break off long runs. Or makes sure the secondary is lined up correctly when C.Johnson was splits out of the backfield at the WR position.

This is more about having been around the block than overall talent.

TheRealJoker
03-10-2010, 10:37 PM
We don't have any "quality vets". Players with 10+ years in the league that are still good enough to start. Add to that the fact we're young and inexperienced across the board since Kubiak took over (first time HC, coordinators, GM, starting QB...) and its no surprise we're as inconsistent a team as we have been.

Look at the Saints: First time HC just like we had inheriting a terrible team just like Kubiak did. They added Brees in 06, definitely a gamble coming off the shoulder injury but they hit a homerun (Franchise QB check). They had similar years as we have been having with a first time HC. But they added a quality vet in Sharper on defense as well as getting a DC who's been around the block in Gregg Williams to make up the difference between 8-8 and Super Bowl.

Sometimes that's all it takes to close up the weaknesses so that your strengths you've had already can shine on the biggest stage in sports.

HuttoKarl
03-12-2010, 10:34 AM
Comparing the roster now to the roster we had when Smith and Kubiak took over is night and day.

The Pencil Neck
03-12-2010, 11:25 AM
Last year's team was a playoff caliber team. They didn't make the playoffs but that's the NFL. Several other playoff caliber teams didn't make the playoffs, either. That doesn't mean the coaches are bad. That doesn't mean that the players are bad. It just means that the random factors didn't align.

As I said in another thread just a few minutes ago, to me, the biggest weakness of this team is the running game. This offense is supposed to be about balance and being able to run when the other team expects pass and pass when the other team expects run. This offense is supposed to be about being able to rip off 4-5 yards a pop whenever we feel like it.

Without that ability to run, our team isn't as effective because even though we can throw, throwing teams have an inherent problem holding on to leads and an inherent boom/bust component. And that was our problem last year. When the passing game wasn't hitting on all cylinders, we looked flat and/or we couldn't hold on to a lead.

There are 2 ways to improve the running game: get a better RB or improve the OLine. We should do both through the draft.

We also need to replace CB, upgrade FS, and upgrade the interior of our DLine.

So, for me, the first two rounds are about RB and CB. The third through fifth rounds are about G/C, FS, and DT. After that, BPA.

We also need to keep working FA to see if we can upgrade any other positions.

For me, we improve our team and the playoffs will come because this is already a good team.

b0ng
03-12-2010, 11:44 AM
Unfortunately the Texans make most of their hay past the NFL draft not before. We're really not going to know whats going on until we see where they slot new draft picks.

With free agency being as neutered as it is right now I'm going to have to say that the offseason has mostly gone on as Smith/Kubiak/McNair has planned it. They said they weren't going to get older RB's, they didn't. They let Dunta walk for gobs of money that I, personally, don't feel he is worth. They signed one guy of dubious skill level to a contract I don't particularly like for his dubious skill level, but it's not on the level of the Carr extension.

Put me down for Incomplete if this is a poll.

FirstTexansFan
03-12-2010, 12:02 PM
I think everyone here has a point. We lack that leader on both sides of the ball, but I think their are two players on defense that can be those guys, Cushing and Pollard. On offense, I don't know, Schaub may very well be the guy, his coming back onto the field last year after the injury to me, showed me, and I think his teammates he can be depended on to lead this team to victory.
Overall, I found their lack of consistency, and the folding chair maneuver after the Monday night game with the Titans, to be the actions of an immature, not ready to take it to the next level team. I blamed it on preparedness by the coaching staff, but Mr. McNair didn't see it that way, so I'm back onboard for another year of abuse, but with deep down desires to be part of a winner.

Trail.Blazr
03-12-2010, 12:25 PM
This coming season.

We would have been in the playoffs, if Cincy and Indy didn't lay down on the field for the Jets. Now, we still could have been in better control of our own destiny and the Cincy/Indy games wouldn't have mattered. I'm guessing that just about anyone on the boards can find error in just about every phase of the 09 season.. preparation, execution, injury, bla bla bla.

Fact is, we're there - minus one element.... showing up for divisional games.

1-5 isn't going to cut it.

If I'm McNair, I tell Kube's: you go 5-11 this year and you still have a job, so long as you go 5-1 in the division. You go 11-5 this year and I'll fire you if it's 1-5 in the division.

When you can't win the division, it's luck and circumstance that makes the playoffs. Last year, it went against us. This year it could bounce in our favor... WIN the division and I promise, NOBODY cares.

b0ng
03-12-2010, 12:44 PM
This coming season.

We would have been in the playoffs, if Cincy and Indy didn't lay down on the field for the Jets. Now, we still could have been in better control of our own destiny and the Cincy/Indy games wouldn't have mattered. I'm guessing that just about anyone on the boards can find error in just about every phase of the 09 season.. preparation, execution, injury, bla bla bla.

Fact is, we're there - minus one element.... showing up for divisional games.

1-5 isn't going to cut it.

If I'm McNair, I tell Kube's: you go 5-11 this year and you still have a job, so long as you go 5-1 in the division. You go 11-5 this year and I'll fire you if it's 1-5 in the division.

When you can't win the division, it's luck and circumstance that makes the playoffs. Last year, it went against us. This year it could bounce in our favor... WIN the division and I promise, NOBODY cares.

If you went 11 - 5 and lost all 5 games in the AFCS you would still* be on your way to the playoffs.

*Okay you could get left out like NE that one time but you are more than likely in with that record, even if all of your losses were to divisional opponents.

Trail.Blazr
03-12-2010, 01:20 PM
If you went 11 - 5 and lost all 5 games in the AFCS you would still* be on your way to the playoffs.

*Okay you could get left out like NE that one time but you are more than likely in with that record, even if all of your losses were to divisional opponents.

Agree... I was being a tad extreme to make a point.

Thorn
03-12-2010, 10:51 PM
Agree... I was being a tad extreme to make a point.

Just a tad? LOL You point is a good one though. The Texans have to start winning games in their division.

Grams
03-13-2010, 07:34 AM
From a little old lady who has never played football, what I see missing is
a couple of "little" things.

I watch the games from home and what I see is the Dline is just a tad slow getting to the QB. They are almost always "almost" sacking the QB or "almost" flushing him out of the pocket. Just a half second short. It was everyone - Mario, Amobi, Smith, Barwin. Everyone was just "so close" most of the time. Was it the defensive plays or the players - IDK.

The Oline - ok with pass protection - just horrendous with run blocking. Maybe because we lost 2 starters (besides the fact that Myers is horrible).Maybe because we did not have a good RB? Foster did look good when he finally got the chance.

We seemed to be so close to really winning a lot of games last year, but always seemed to "shoot ourselves in the foot". If it wasn't one player funbling the ball, it was another missing tying or winning FG's.

As was mentioned in another post - maybe it is attitude. Maybe it is the maturity and attitude that comes with knowing you can win every game.

I think the offense had shown it can gets us in position to win by marching downfield in the last 2 min of the 4th quarter. We just need to find the player (kicker or RB or OL) that can get the points.

I am neither a pink soaper nor a sunshiner. I understand both sides of this debate and agree with a lot both sides points. I am just a fan. Thankful we have an NFL football team in Houston. Very happy we do not have an owner like Al Davis or a team that has been totally screwed over for years and years like the Lions.

I think we are so close, Just one or two players away from being very successful.

JB
03-13-2010, 07:47 AM
:goodpost:

RazorOye
03-13-2010, 09:49 AM
But they added a quality vet in Sharper on defense as well as getting a DC who's been around the block in Gregg Williams to make up the difference between 8-8 and Super Bowl.


Porter and Greer meant more to the D this year than Sharper - and I love Sharper. Getting Gregg Williams was key, too - he was able to identify strengths (and the Saints D didn't have many - but our starting CBs are definitely one of them) and scheme with them in mind, as opposed to Gibbs who pressed his scheme no matter who was on the field.

steelbtexan
03-13-2010, 11:42 AM
Last year's team was a playoff caliber team. They didn't make the playoffs but that's the NFL. Several other playoff caliber teams didn't make the playoffs, either. That doesn't mean the coaches are bad. That doesn't mean that the players are bad. It just means that the random factors didn't align.

As I said in another thread just a few minutes ago, to me, the biggest weakness of this team is the running game. This offense is supposed to be about balance and being able to run when the other team expects pass and pass when the other team expects run. This offense is supposed to be about being able to rip off 4-5 yards a pop whenever we feel like it.

Without that ability to run, our team isn't as effective because even though we can throw, throwing teams have an inherent problem holding on to leads and an inherent boom/bust component. And that was our problem last year. When the passing game wasn't hitting on all cylinders, we looked flat and/or we couldn't hold on to a lead.

There are 2 ways to improve the running game: get a better RB or improve the OLine. We should do both through the draft.

We also need to replace CB, upgrade FS, and upgrade the interior of our DLine.

So, for me, the first two rounds are about RB and CB. The third through fifth rounds are about G/C, FS, and DT. After that, BPA.

We also need to keep working FA to see if we can upgrade any other positions.

For me, we improve our team and the playoffs will come because this is already a good team.

Disagree with you on the coaching players and the alignment of the stars thing.

Coaching management/coaching/players matter in aligning the stars.

Agree with you on improving the running game and how to go about improving it.

The Pencil Neck
03-13-2010, 12:03 PM
Disagree with you on the coaching players and the alignment of the stars thing.

Coaching management/coaching/players matter in aligning the stars.


I'm not saying that management, coaching, and players don't matter in getting to the playoffs. I'm saying that you can have all those things and still not make the playoffs.

Coaches who have won Super Bowls are generally considered to be fairly good coaches. Coaches who have won Super Bowls don't always make the play offs. Coaches who are generally accepted as good coaches don't always make the playoffs.

If a team gets double digit wins, that's generally considered a good team. But sometimes, double digit wins isn't good enough to get into the playoffs.

Furthermore, good teams normally win the close games. But sometimes, they don't. And sometimes good teams end up with bad records. The ball just didn't bounce their way a couple of times. The coaches just make a few bad game decisions, a few bad play calls, a couple of players get out of position or have a brain fart and make a mistake in their assignments. A couple of those things happen at the wrong time and a 10-6 team falls to 7-9.

I'm saying that there are frequently more good teams in a conference than there are play-off spots. Especially when a weak division sends a representative and stronger teams with better records get left at home.

steelbtexan
03-13-2010, 12:13 PM
I get what you're saying.

But good teams/coaches make the playoffs atleast one time in 4 years

Coaches can make a bigger difference in football more than any other sport. IMHO

dalemurphy
03-13-2010, 12:19 PM
I get what you're saying.

But good teams/coaches make the playoffs atleast one time in 4 years
Coaches can make a bigger difference in football more than any other sport. IMHO

But it was a bad team in '06 and still a pretty bad team in '07... this team didn't have average NFL talent, or better, until '08....

We had a prayer in '08 and a reasonable chance in '09... Both the '06 and '07 teams overachieved!

steelbtexan
03-13-2010, 12:53 PM
But it was a bad team in '06 and still a pretty bad team in '07... this team didn't have average NFL talent, or better, until '08....

We had a prayer in '08 and a reasonable chance in '09... Both the '06 and '07 teams overachieved!


While I agree with 06 and 07 but in 08 McNair said they could make the playoffs and in 09 McNair said it was playoffs or bust.

Maybe McNair really meant that or maybe it was just PR. With Kubes contract extention it appears he meant the latter.

I dont think making the playoffs 1 time in 4 yrs is being unreasonable if Smithiak are all they were cracked up to be.

The Pencil Neck
03-13-2010, 01:39 PM
I get what you're saying.

But good teams/coaches make the playoffs atleast one time in 4 years

Coaches can make a bigger difference in football more than any other sport. IMHO

Last year's team was the first one that I felt was really seriously playoff caliber. I don't think the team from 3-4 years ago was a playoff caliber team. They could have made it but they would have needed to be in a weak division or a weak conference to make it in.

I don't see the coaching as important in football as it is in basketball. In basketball, you've got coaches that go to bad teams and immediately turn them around over and over again. In football, it usually takes more time for the coaching effect to show up and there are lots of examples of coaches going to a team and not doing so well and then going to another team and doing well (and vice versa.)

awtysst
03-13-2010, 05:38 PM
Last year's team was the first one that I felt was really seriously playoff caliber. I don't think the team from 3-4 years ago was a playoff caliber team. They could have made it but they would have needed to be in a weak division or a weak conference to make it in.

I don't see the coaching as important in football as it is in basketball. In basketball, you've got coaches that go to bad teams and immediately turn them around over and over again. In football, it usually takes more time for the coaching effect to show up and there are lots of examples of coaches going to a team and not doing so well and then going to another team and doing well (and vice versa.)

See I agree with you here. Last year was the first time I REALLY thought we would make the playoffs. I felt that Schaub was ready to take the next step (check), the defense was going to be fun to watch with the firing of Richard Smith (eventually), and that Slaton and the running game would pick up where they left off last year (not so much). I really believed we were poised to make that next step.

What bothered me the most is they did not seem to play an entire football game with passion and energy. They either came out firing on all cylinders and then cooled off in the second half or sluggish at the start and on fire in the second half. THAT is not what playoff teams do.

painekiller
03-13-2010, 06:20 PM
Good Point! A key veteran would help out alot.

Think back to 1986-87. The Oilers were a young team that needed to grow up. Did they go get a veteran, no they let the young talent grow up.

IMO you let this team learn together with small signings. No need to sign a washed has been to a big contract. That will only upset the current guys who are underpaid and helping us create a solid base.

I would be looking to add draft picks any way I could, use next years picks to trade back into round 2 or 3. This is a deep draft, grab some players.

JB
03-13-2010, 06:38 PM
No need to sign a washed has been to a big contract.
I agree with this.
I would be looking to add draft picks any way I could, use next years picks to trade back into round 2 or 3. This is a deep draft, grab some players.
And this.

I was not saying to go grab a high priced vet; just that a vet in the right position could help our young team learn how to win.

steelbtexan
03-13-2010, 06:42 PM
I agree with this.

And this.

I was not saying to go grab a high priced vet; just that a vet in the right position could help our young team leaqrn how to win.

Ditto

awtysst
03-13-2010, 06:59 PM
We will probably be able to sign a veteran that gets cut in camp or before the season. There may even be an interesting one in the OTAs.

Hottoddie
03-13-2010, 10:49 PM
I'd still like to see us sign a veteran FS before the draft. I would've loved to have gotten Nick Collins, but Atogwe would be more than adequate & a lot cheaper than Collins would have been. Signing Atogwe to pair with Pollard would give us a sweet safety tandem & narrow our first pick down to RB or CB.

If we take care of the FS position in free agency, then I'd do this with my draft.

1) Kyle Wilson (CB)
2) Montario Hardesty (RB)
3) Linval Joseph (DT)
4) Mike Johnson (OG)
5) Walter McFadden (CB)
6a) Zac Robinson (QB)
6b) Stevenson Sylvester (OLB)
7) Erik Cook (C)

The Pencil Neck
03-14-2010, 12:02 AM
What bothered me the most is they did not seem to play an entire football game with passion and energy. They either came out firing on all cylinders and then cooled off in the second half or sluggish at the start and on fire in the second half. THAT is not what playoff teams do.

And this is not something I agree with. We did it more frequently than I would have liked, but plenty of playoff teams do this. Plenty of playoff teams we played did this.

Sometimes teams come out flat. Not just bad teams. Good teams and great teams do it sometimes. All those great teams that had all those great comeback wins wouldn't have had to have those great comeback wins if they'd been hitting on all cylinders at the beginning of the game.

Sometimes teams jump out to an early lead and then have to hang on.

When a good team comes out flat, they're able to come back and find a way to win. When a good team jumps out to an early lead, they find a way to close the deal even if the other team comes back.

I would personally prefer to jump out to a huge early lead and then continue to increase our lead through the entire game and not allow the other team to ever score. But there's a natural ebb and flow in games. There are going to be times when the points don't come. Thre are going to be times when you have to come back and times you have to hold on. The main thing is being on the winning end of the score at the end. Expecting an NFL team to dominate every game from beginning to end is unrealistic.

painekiller
03-14-2010, 01:26 AM
I was not saying to go grab a high priced vet; just that a vet in the right position could help our young team learn how to win.

We agree on this....

CloakNNNdagger
03-14-2010, 08:56 AM
And this is not something I agree with. We did it more frequently than I would have liked, but plenty of playoff teams do this. Plenty of playoff teams we played did this.

Sometimes teams come out flat. Not just bad teams. Good teams and great teams do it sometimes. All those great teams that had all those great comeback wins wouldn't have had to have those great comeback wins if they'd been hitting on all cylinders at the beginning of the game.

Sometimes teams jump out to an early lead and then have to hang on.

When a good team comes out flat, they're able to come back and find a way to win. When a good team jumps out to an early lead, they find a way to close the deal even if the other team comes back.

I would personally prefer to jump out to a huge early lead and then continue to increase our lead through the entire game and not allow the other team to ever score. But there's a natural ebb and flow in games. There are going to be times when the points don't come. Thre are going to be times when you have to come back and times you have to hold on. The main thing is being on the winning end of the score at the end. Expecting an NFL team to dominate every game from beginning to end is unrealistic.

We just need to learn how to fall behind sooner, so we have more time to catch up...........or we need to learn how to get ahead later, so we give the other team less time to catch up.:rake:

Trail.Blazr
03-14-2010, 01:47 PM
But it was a bad team in '06 and still a pretty bad team in '07... this team didn't have average NFL talent, or better, until '08....

We had a prayer in '08 and a reasonable chance in '09... Both the '06 and '07 teams overachieved!

We just need to learn how to fall behind sooner, so we have more time to catch up...........or we need to learn how to get ahead later, so we give the other team less time to catch up.:rake:

The running game was the blame. Remember the end of 08 vs. JAX? I'd love to see that on a regular basis.